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Vine
01-10-2012, 09:35 AM
This game will likely come down to a chess match. Now, I fully realize that John Fox is probably not going to win a chess match against Bill Belicheat. BUT HE MUST TRY.

Running on 1st down 95% of the time will not win this time, I just won't believe it. Someone said in another thread, on first play, run a 3 step drop slant pass, that will likely put Denver ahead in the chess match and hopefully, just maybe... Belicheat will be scrambling the rest of the game to comes up with some of his own counter moves.

jhns
01-10-2012, 09:39 AM
They need to do exactly what they were doing against them last time, minus the turnovers. The Pats defense isn't very good. If we can run, we need to run a LOT. It is how you control the clock. It is how you keep Brady off the field.

SureShot
01-10-2012, 09:40 AM
We have to get to Brady at all costs. 3 man rush wont work this week.

Kaylore
01-10-2012, 09:40 AM
I think this game will be the opposite of the Steelers game. Where we beat the Steelers with finesse and strategy, this game will be about grit and physicality. If we play physical with them, we can intimidate this team.

We can win this game. I am quite confident we not only show up but surprise people again.

bronco militia
01-10-2012, 09:41 AM
hopefully the chess match is for the Broncos defense...they weren't very good back on December 18th.

Vine
01-10-2012, 09:44 AM
We have to get to Brady at all costs. 3 man rush wont work this week.

Good point about getting to Brady. The other chess match between Dennis Allen and the Brady offense is just as much important as the McCoy offense versus the Patriot defense.

I agree about getting to Brady at all costs. A 3 man rush would be good if they can get to Brady fast with it. With Doom, if he is not held, will beat his man consistently. Still, if they rush only 3 or 4, and not get to Brady, they will get picked apart. I fully expect some disguised blitzes during a lot of the game.

Spider
01-10-2012, 09:46 AM
Just beat the man in front of you , the rest will take care of its self

razorwire77
01-10-2012, 09:50 AM
Simply put, turnovers and three and outs will kill this team's chances. You beat Brady and Co. by keeping them off of the field and substaining 5, 6, 7, minute drives, and winning the field position battle. Certainly getting pressure on Brady is critical, but he's not going to stopped, but you if you can limit NE's scoring to field goals whenever possible there's a chance.

Rohirrim
01-10-2012, 09:52 AM
Disagree with the OP. Running is exactly what can win this game. Old school football. The Pats best weapon is Tom Brady. Keep him on the bench. TOP could win us this game. The other advantage we have is Colquitt and our STs. We can win the field position battle. Whenever Brady gets on the field, he should be looking at a minimum of 80 yards. No turnovers and get a turnover on defense (Champ owes us one). It is doable. Very doable.

TheReverend
01-10-2012, 09:52 AM
Decent analogy when you consider to win we need to go no huddle often and turn it into speed chess, where luck becomes one of the main elements along with skill.

Mile High Mojoe
01-10-2012, 09:56 AM
I agree the Broncos must throw on 1st down just as they did against the Steelers but they have to be able to run the ball and control the clock too. I don't see them winning a shoot out; they must keep Brady off the field as long as possible so the D will be as fresh as possible.

If they can keep it to a smash mouth type game I think they have a much better chance of winning it.

The D failed the last time by not getting any pressure on Brady and the deep zone they used cost them also. Shut down the run then put constant pressure on Brady while playing tight man coverage.

Control the ball on O with a good running game, without TO's, mix it up by throwing on 1st down, pick some spots to go deep when you can and this one is a totally winnable game for the Broncos.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-10-2012, 09:59 AM
I agree that physicality is the key to this game. I'm not sure what kind of defense the Pats will come out in, but I'll assume it won't be cover zero (Belichick would never do this). They had, essentially, zero success stopping the read option last time, I'd like to see them try to stop it again. If they can't, and have to commit more defenders to the run, pass over it.

bronco militia
01-10-2012, 10:02 AM
I agree that physicality is the key to this game. I'm not sure what kind of defense the Pats will come out in, but I'll assume it won't be cover zero (Belichick would never do this). They had, essentially, zero success stopping the read option last time, I'd like to see them try to stop it again. If they can't, and have to commit more defenders to the run, pass over it.

in the 2nd quarter, the Pats switched to a 3 man front and for some reason our 5 OL couldn't pass protect.

BroncoBeavis
01-10-2012, 10:03 AM
Disagree with the OP. Running is exactly what can win this game. Old school football. The Pats best weapon is Tom Brady. Keep him on the bench. TOP could win us this game. The other advantage we have is Colquitt and our STs. We can win the field position battle. Whenever Brady gets on the field, he should be looking at a minimum of 80 yards. No turnovers and get a turnover on defense (Champ owes us one). It is doable. Very doable.

I'd side with this so long as we realize that to help the running game we still need to throw it at least 30% of the time on 1st down.

It's the flip side of the Tebow/DT miracle OT play. That worked because the Stealers 'knew' we always ran it on first down. That is also why we were completely unable to run the ball on first down all game.

We need the Pats to be guessing on 1st down all game. Not just on the last play, because if we don't, the last play isn't likely to matter.

BroncoBen
01-10-2012, 10:06 AM
They need to do exactly what they were doing against them last time, minus the turnovers. The Pats defense isn't very good. If we can run, we need to run a LOT. It is how you control the clock. It is how you keep Brady off the field.

I agree... the best way to keep Brady off the field is to eat up the clock by running the ball.

Maybe what you do is pass every now and again on 1st or 2nd down to shake things up.

But you figure if the Pats go in that hurry up offence and score, the Broncos can't play that way.. score for a score.

Also convert 3rd downs, punting is not good.. the Pats will wear our Denvers Defense with that hurry up.

razorwire77
01-10-2012, 10:08 AM
I imagine New England is going to drop more people into coverage than one would think. They will try to force Tebow to throw into tight windows in the middle of the field. They're not going to be try to completely shut down Denver's run game, but rather incorporate a bend don't break type mentality. Try to get into a situation where Denver is trading field goals for touchdowns.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-10-2012, 10:12 AM
in the 2nd quarter, the Pats switched to a 3 man front and for some reason our 5 OL couldn't pass protect.

We still ran on them just fine. Fumbling became the issue here and they forced one of them on a speed option (which we dont use much anyway, and never with much success).

Rohirrim
01-10-2012, 10:20 AM
We still ran on them just fine. Fumbling became the issue here and they forced one of them on a speed option (which we dont use much anyway, and never with much success).

I think we'll find it a lot easier to run on the Pats then we did on the Steelers. We've got to pass to keep them honest, and off the line, but if we can keep moving the sticks with the ground game, I hope we just stay with it and burn the clock.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 10:21 AM
Denver needs to flip the script and throw screens and short passes. New England's secondary is awful but if you allow them to focus on what you did against Pittsburgh, you make life easier for them. New England will be very wary about giving help over the top. OK, fine. So make NEs DBs defend all parts of the field. Also, you can start getting the OLBs to think about helping in the flats and over the middle.

They're going to be going into the game mindful of the vertical passing game, so if you stretch them out horizontally, you can then hammer them with vertical throws and runs.

Notice how many times the read option works in the 2nd half of games. If they try that in the 1st series against Harrison, James Harrison is probably less confused but as the game progresses and his head is filled with other things, he starts thinking of defending other plays and that's when the trap is set. We've seen the read option work in the 2nd half numerous times even though the other team focused on this in preparation.

I see this as being similar to how Denver would always keep the bootleg open by running inside the DEs. NE's probably going to run what is more like a 5-2 in order to set the edge against the option. We need to run inside those DEs to make them start thinking of defending straigh run plays between their DTs and DEs.

ScottXray
01-10-2012, 10:53 AM
I think that Bellicheck is going to try to flip things against us by trying not just to contain, but actually rushing against Tebow out of 4-5 man line sets. They got to Tebow pretty well in the 2nd half last time when we got behind and started throwing more. I think they will run blitz early. So the key will be to turn that against them by passing when they don't expect it, which for us is probably 2nd downs with occasional first downs, with Tebow under center. Screens and quick outs must be incorporated and Tebow and the line , receivers is going to have to recognise these and be ready for them, and be ready to check down the play.

On defense we must pressure Brady. Always 4 rush men, but LB pressure also , switching up who goes and who drops or just plays the run. Never rush 3 in passing situations. Haggan will be needed in the LBs so I think he should start over Mays. To help in the secondary ( especially if Dawkins is out again) we use the six package in the secondary like we did against Pittsburgh. We won't need to play so deep so maybe we can contain the two TEs this time and make it tougher on them than before. Goodman and Champ will have to come up big playing man, and the safeties and nickle/dime CBs take the TEs. We absolutely must stop their run game better than before to make this work. They will try to hurt us with screens and reverses gimmicks if this works so play awareness will be important.

ClamChowdah
01-10-2012, 11:00 AM
I agree that physicality is the key to this game. I'm not sure what kind of defense the Pats will come out in, but I'll assume it won't be cover zero (Belichick would never do this). They had, essentially, zero success stopping the read option last time, I'd like to see them try to stop it again. If they can't, and have to commit more defenders to the run, pass over it.

We'll play a 3-4 the whole game this time, zone coverage and not allow Tebow to roll left and throw deep, we'll make him drive the entire field in 5-10 yard chunks consistantly and hope he makes a mistake or someone else does.

Vine
01-10-2012, 11:04 AM
I agree the Broncos must throw on 1st down just as they did against the Steelers but they have to be able to run the ball and control the clock too. I don't see them winning a shoot out; they must keep Brady off the field as long as possible so the D will be as fresh as possible.

If they can keep it to a smash mouth type game I think they have a much better chance of winning it.

The D failed the last time by not getting any pressure on Brady and the deep zone they used cost them also. Shut down the run then put constant pressure on Brady while playing tight man coverage.

Control the ball on O with a good running game, without TO's, mix it up by throwing on 1st down, pick some spots to go deep when you can and this one is a totally winnable game for the Broncos.

What? They ran on first down ONCE until that overtime one play. In over 20 first downs.... only once.

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 11:06 AM
We'll play a 3-4 the whole game this time, zone coverage and not allow Tebow to roll left and throw deep, we'll make him drive the entire field in 5-10 yard chunks consistantly and hope he makes a mistake or someone else does.

I bet NE will disguise its coverages a lot but having two safeties back and making Tim complete multiple short and accurate passes will be their strategy. Agreed. This does not mean that Tim still won't take his shots. Interestingly, I doubt Denver wants a track meet against NE's seriously potent offense. The best bet is ball control, which requires running and short accurate passes and this will be on the road.

I think the score will be 31-24 NE but could be the reverse too. Who knows? LOL

Vine
01-10-2012, 11:07 AM
I agree about running the ball (and time off the clock) to keep Brady off the field.

That only will work if the running game is successful. A lot of 2nd and 9's means bad news for Denver.

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 11:10 AM
I agree about running the ball (and time off the clock) to keep Brady off the field.

That only will work if the running game is successful. A lot of 2nd and 9's means bad news for Denver.

Also falling behind big early would suck. Those TEs are deadly.

bendog
01-10-2012, 11:19 AM
in the 2nd quarter, the Pats switched to a 3 man front and for some reason our 5 OL couldn't pass protect.

yeah. That was inexplicable. Though in the 2nd qtr consecutive fumbles stopped Den. I think NE's pass rush killed Tebow in the second half, when they started down 16-27. Can't get two td's behind Brady. We're not that good. Maybe only GB and Nola are that good.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 11:23 AM
yeah. That was inexplicable. Though in the 2nd qtr consecutive fumbles stopped Den. I think NE's pass rush killed Tebow in the second half, when they started down 16-27. Can't get two td's behind Brady. We're not that good. Maybe only GB and Nola are that good.

Brady's a great QB but people should be careful about being too wrapped around the first game. Von Miller had only recently put his thumb in a cast. Also, there were two rookies playing at S for the first time. The S position seems to have stabilized somewhat with Bruton and Carter back there.

If Denver can improve on their safety play from last time and get a better pass rush from Von Miller, NE may not be able to move the ball as easily. It would also help if Ayers last game wasn't a fluke.

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 11:29 AM
How does Denver stop their two TEs?

Swedish Extrovert
01-10-2012, 11:32 AM
This game will likely come down to a chess match. Now, I fully realize that John Fox is probably not going to win a chess match against Bill Belicheat. BUT HE MUST TRY.

Running on 1st down 95% of the time will not win this time, I just won't believe it. Someone said in another thread, on first play, run a 3 step drop slant pass, that will likely put Denver ahead in the chess match and hopefully, just maybe... Belicheat will be scrambling the rest of the game to comes up with some of his own counter moves.

It will if NE runs the same man cover zero defense the Steelers ran.

They wont, so we should be able to run the ball much batter against the Pats.

ScottXray
01-10-2012, 11:41 AM
Brady's a great QB but people should be careful about being too wrapped around the first game. Von Miller had only recently put his thumb in a cast. Also, there were two rookies playing at S for the first time. The S position seems to have stabilized somewhat with Bruton and Carter back there.

If Denver can improve on their safety play from last time and get a better pass rush from Von Miller, NE may not be able to move the ball as easily. It would also help if Ayers last game wasn't a fluke.

Agree, that our rookie safeties got confused a lot that game, first time starting. They have had 3-4 games to strighten some of that out With Dawkins not on the field, and it showed Sunday. I think we do a better job against the TE's this game. That still requires Brady get pushed, made uncomfortable back there. Brady will get his points , but I think we can hold them to 17-24 if we don't turn the ball over. Run game has to come up huge , and a pick or two by the Defense would be enormous.

Old Dude
01-10-2012, 11:45 AM
They need to do exactly what they were doing against them last time, minus the turnovers. The Pats defense isn't very good. If we can run, we need to run a LOT. It is how you control the clock. It is how you keep Brady off the field.

I agree.

The Broncos had them on their heels and a good chance to win the game until we imploded with a cascade of fumbles deep in our own zone.

Denver might have survived one of those. They could not have beaten the Pats with two. And they could not have beaten anyone with three. We spotted one of the two or three most potent offenses in football 17 free points.

It was mostly a matter of young players looking too hard for the big play and making dumb mistakes.

No matter what else the Denver offense does, they have to protect the ball, because the Pats are not going to turn it over very often, if at all.

I think it will have to be mostly on the ground for the simple reason that the Pats are not going to sell out against the run. They will protect against the deep ball, just as KC did two weeks ago, and they will bank on the probability of Denver being unable to sustain long drives without a high quality short to intermediate passing game.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 11:52 AM
Agree, that our rookie safeties got confused a lot that game, first time starting. They have had 3-4 games to strighten some of that out With Dawkins not on the field, and it showed Sunday. I think we do a better job against the TE's this game. That still requires Brady get pushed, made uncomfortable back there. Brady will get his points , but I think we can hold them to 17-24 if we don't turn the ball over. Run game has to come up huge , and a pick or two by the Defense would be enormous.

Well, what would be huge is if Denver can hold them to FGs on a couple of long drives. It would be better if we controlled the clock by holding on to the ball but the next best thing would be for NE to use a lot of clock for 3 points.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-10-2012, 11:54 AM
We'll play a 3-4 the whole game this time, zone coverage and not allow Tebow to roll left and throw deep, we'll make him drive the entire field in 5-10 yard chunks consistantly and hope he makes a mistake or someone else does.

That's what i'd do. Just wait for us to make mistakes.

BroncoBeavis
01-10-2012, 12:11 PM
Need to bring a 5th guy up the middle rushing Brady almost every other play, just to make him think twice about stepping up. Even if it doesn't lead to sacks but to getting their guards into the pocket somewhat. Seems like the blitzer's always looking for an opening to come through clean, but even if he helps take an OL into the backfield, that'll help.

Anything that'll keep Brady hanging a little further back in the pocket. Then the edge rush might have a chance.

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Need to bring a 5th guy up the middle rushing Brady almost every other play, just to make him think twice about stepping up. Even if it doesn't lead to sacks but to getting their guards into the pocket somewhat. Seems like the blitzer's always looking for an opening to come through clean, but even if he helps take an OL into the backfield, that'll help.

Anything that'll keep Brady hanging a little further back in the pocket. Then the edge rush might have a chance.

Leaving those TEs with one on one coverage is a questionable strategy.

Drek
01-10-2012, 12:21 PM
How does Denver stop their two TEs?

Make them use 6 or 7 to stop the rush from killing Brady.

Ayers needs a repeat of last week, Miller needs to return to mid-season form, and Doom needs to have a good game as well. Add some more consistent play from Thomas and Bunkley in getting some interior push and a few well timed DJ Williams/Q. Carter, Chris Harris blitzes and you'll see a whole lot less of the two TEs on the field together, and almost zero of them both running routes.

The defensive front seven stepping up and making that happen is one of the two big keys to this game for me. The other is an offense that plays aggressive football. Not just passing the ball, not just passing down field, but appreciating that we aren't winning this game with field goals.

Last time we played the Pats momentum was powerfully on our side, we were nearly in the red zone looking to extend our lead when on 3rd down Tebow ran and got us just one yard shy of the first. There was a holding call on the play though and the Pats could have backed us up and put us in a 3rd and 15. Belichick took the ball out of Tebow's hands by declining and playing to Fox's desire for the safe points. This weekend we need to view Belichick giving us a 4th and 1 inside the 20 as opposed to a 3rd and 15 as a gift and go for it. You take momentum that way, you take more clock that way, and you take more points that way.

Belichick played to Fox's conservative mindset last time betting that sooner or later his offense would start putting up touchdowns. Fox needs to make that assumption bite the Patriots in the ass. With a little luck we conver those 4th downs, get up early, and then start pounding their weak D, chewing up the clock. Then their offense gets even more one dimensional, making it easier for the D to just pin their ears back and get after Brady.

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Make them use 6 or 7 to stop the rush from killing Brady.

Ayers needs a repeat of last week, Miller needs to return to mid-season form, and Doom needs to have a good game as well. Add some more consistent play from Thomas and Bunkley in getting some interior push and a few well timed DJ Williams/Q. Carter, Chris Harris blitzes and you'll see a whole lot less of the two TEs on the field together, and almost zero of them both running routes.

The defensive front seven stepping up and making that happen is one of the two big keys to this game for me. The other is an offense that plays aggressive football. Not just passing the ball, not just passing down field, but appreciating that we aren't winning this game with field goals.

Last time we played the Pats momentum was powerfully on our side, we were nearly in the red zone looking to extend our lead when on 3rd down Tebow ran and got us just one yard shy of the first. There was a holding call on the play though and the Pats could have backed us up and put us in a 3rd and 15. Belichick took the ball out of Tebow's hands by declining and playing to Fox's desire for the safe points. This weekend we need to view Belichick giving us a 4th and 1 inside the 20 as opposed to a 3rd and 15 as a gift and go for it. You take momentum that way, you take more clock that way, and you take more points that way.

Belichick played to Fox's conservative mindset last time betting that sooner or later his offense would start putting up touchdowns. Fox needs to make that assumption bite the Patriots in the ass. With a little luck we conver those 4th downs, get up early, and then start pounding their weak D, chewing up the clock. Then their offense gets even more one dimensional, making it easier for the D to just pin their ears back and get after Brady.

I agree with you in actuality but then you risk giving up big plays on draws and screens. I've never seen TEs like this EVER?!?!?! Has anyone?

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 12:30 PM
I agree with you in actuality but then you risk giving up big plays on draws and screens. I've never seen TEs like this EVER?!?!?! Has anyone?

What do you mean, "like this"?

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 12:31 PM
What do you mean, "like this"?

Size and skill set playing at the same time. Its like having Gates / Todd Christensen together. I don't think anyone had as good of a year at that position as Gronkowski did in 2011 right?

WolfpackGuy
01-10-2012, 12:33 PM
1. Run the ball and limit their possessions.

2. No turnovers on offense. Those and where they happened were a huge part of the loss last month.

3. I don't care what Hernandez did the last game, stay with limiting Gronkowski.

4. Keep Rahim Moore on the bench.

5. Step up the tackling on defense.

6. The interior DL need to get a better push this game because the Pats tackles kept steering the ends around and Brady was stepping up WAY TOO MUCH.

Rohirrim
01-10-2012, 12:33 PM
I wish we had some interior pass rush. Nothing screws with Brady's head more than the threat coming up the middle. Allen should set up some plays to create gaps in the middle for Von.

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 12:36 PM
I wish we had some interior pass rush. Nothing screws with Brady's head more than the threat coming up the middle. Allen should set up some plays to create gaps in the middle for Von.

I think that works on every QB, LOL. The NE O Line is gigantic but has failed them in the last three playoff games...just saying.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 12:38 PM
I wish we had some interior pass rush. Nothing screws with Brady's head more than the threat coming up the middle. Allen should set up some plays to create gaps in the middle for Von.

They can do twists and stunts.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 12:40 PM
Size and skill set playing at the same time. Its like having Gates / Todd Christensen together. I don't think anyone had as good of a year at that position as Gronkowski did in 2011 right?

Does the NFL test for Extenz?

Gator20134
01-10-2012, 12:42 PM
Does the NFL test for Extenz?

HA!

Drek
01-10-2012, 01:14 PM
What do you mean, "like this"?

Big, strong, athletic, and real vertical threats thanks to good straight line speed.

I agree with you in actuality but then you risk giving up big plays on draws and screens. I've never seen TEs like this EVER?!?!?! Has anyone?

Which is why the defense needs to open up controlling the line and getting to Brady. If we can get pressure on him with a four man rush and get someone through unblocked with a five man rush the Pats will be forced to add protection, keeping a TE in to help out.

Effective zone blitzing with Miller, using him to load up behind either DE would be especially effective here because no RB is going to suddenly handle Miller if the OT has to pick up Doom or Ayers. Then they need to lengthen Miller's route to the QB and get a superior blocker in his path, or he's going to be throwing Green-Ellis/Woodhead on top of Tom Brady every pass attempt.

Agamemnon
01-10-2012, 01:19 PM
I'm thinking Fox is hoping to make it a game of checkers. He's much better at checkers...

Spider
01-10-2012, 03:16 PM
I wish the Head slap aka the Halo spinner ( the one Decon Jones stole from Jackson) was still legal

cmhargrove
01-10-2012, 03:27 PM
I'm thinking Fox is hoping to make it a game of checkers. He's much better at checkers...

Yes, checkers or something luck based like Yahtzee.

No, what we really need is sharks. Sharks with lazers...

BroncoBeavis
01-10-2012, 03:53 PM
I'm thinking Fox is hoping to make it a game of checkers. He's much better at checkers...

"Wait, I just jumped you with my horsey guy, and you're saying I don't get to take that pointy looking guy off the board?

Spider
01-10-2012, 03:58 PM
We'll play a 3-4 the whole game this time, zone coverage and not allow Tebow to roll left and throw deep, we'll make him drive the entire field in 5-10 yard chunks consistantly and hope he makes a mistake or someone else does.
do that and we run ........ promise you that