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Kaylore
01-02-2012, 08:17 AM
If you had any other QB in the league with the number 1 rushing attack and a defense that held the opposing team to one touchdown at home, and that QB put up the kind of numbers Tebow did, would you be making the same excuses?

BTW, this poll is public Mile High Mojo

elsid13
01-02-2012, 08:20 AM
In before the poll. And the answer is no.

Jay3
01-02-2012, 08:21 AM
Rushing attack can't be measured just by total yards, because that number is highly skewed by the massive disproportion of running plays. The run game fails to deliver quite a bit in short yardage.

If the play-calling and route-running was bad, I would still point it out. Usually, in a performance that bad, there is more than one thing going on.

But there's no question Tebow's play was bad. We have a perfect storm of negative reinforcement right now -- three of the Broncos biggest weaknesses are currently overlapping each other and resonating.

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 08:22 AM
What we need is a new coaching staff. Tebow was great in college.

elsid13
01-02-2012, 08:23 AM
Where the "TheDave would have put up similar number" option.

Make you miss the SOB days at QB.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 08:24 AM
Where is the would of at least scored 10 pts and won option?

Archie
01-02-2012, 08:25 AM
Tebow has been awful the last couple of weeks.... Right now our team is being exposed as a fraud in nearly every phase of the game.

Kaylore
01-02-2012, 08:31 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 08:34 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

I think the coaches put Tebow in that bad position. There was nothing Tim could do because of the bad playcalling.

broncogary
01-02-2012, 08:34 AM
Hey, the offense was improving until the second drive in Buffalo. They've been slumping since then.

Our last two opponents had good cover corners. I don't think Pitt's are that good. Reason for hope.

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 08:35 AM
Tebow has been awful the last couple of weeks.... Right now our team is being exposed as a fraud in nearly every phase of the game.

Not STs and defense. We held KC to one TD.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:38 AM
What we need is to trade Tebow so Fox can bring in another QB to make look like crap like he has done his whole career..

RhymesayersDU
01-02-2012, 08:40 AM
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 08:43 AM
If you had any other QB in the league with the number 1 rushing attack and a defense that held the opposing team to one touchdown at home, and that QB put up the kind of numbers Tebow did, would you be making the same excuses?

BTW, this poll is public Mile High Mojo

You have devolved on to a clown. Either that or a troll, its hard to figure out which one.

http://www.isavo.com/pic409/clown5.jpg

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 08:45 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

Yeah, thats probably because we saw the same thing for 2+ seasons.

Perspective is cool, man.

I know that he's not mormon and you don't like non-Mormons and all, but you are beyond silly at this point.

broncogary
01-02-2012, 08:46 AM
You have devolved on to a clown. Either that or a troll, its hard to figure out which one.

http://www.isavo.com/pic409/clown5.jpg

Wrong color hair. :haw!:

Ironlung
01-02-2012, 08:47 AM
So why was this number 1 rushing attack dead last when Orton was the qb...with the exact same olineman?

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 08:49 AM
You have devolved on to a clown. Either that or a troll, its hard to figure out which one.



It's eerie how you constantly attach your own failings to others.

But, speaking of clowns, my favorite for today is where you reasoned that if Tebow can't pass, that must mean that passing is a liberal plot.

Priceless. :thumbs:

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 08:51 AM
So why was this number 1 rushing attack dead last when Orton was the qb...with the exact same olineman?

Because they weren't getting 50 yds rushing a game from the qb and we run the ball 3x as much with Tebow.

elsid13
01-02-2012, 08:51 AM
So why was this number 1 rushing attack dead last when Orton was the qb...with the exact same olineman?

When did McaGhee take over and become the man running the ball? Right about the time they made the switch from Orton to Tebow.

elsid13
01-02-2012, 08:52 AM
Yeah, thats probably because we saw the same thing for 2+ seasons.

Perspective is cool, man.

I know that he's not mormon and you don't like non-Mormons and all, but you are beyond silly at this point.

Are you really accusing someone of religious bigotry?

Spider
01-02-2012, 08:52 AM
When did McaGhee take over and become the man running the ball? Right about the time they made the switch from Orton to Tebow.

that means nothing .......It was all tebows doing dayumit ......... :~ohyah!:

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 08:54 AM
Are you really accusing someone of religious bigotry?

It is what it is.

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 08:58 AM
It is what it is.

Okay. I'm starting to get the big picture. Let's see, Tebow can't pass because the coaching sucks, passing is liberal, and everybody who likes passing is anti-Christian.

elsid13
01-02-2012, 08:59 AM
It is what it is.

You are truly ****ed in the head.

Spider
01-02-2012, 09:03 AM
Okay. I'm starting to get the big picture. Let's see, Tebow can't pass because the coaching sucks, passing is liberal, and everybody who likes passing is anti-Christian.

Hilarious!

TonyR
01-02-2012, 09:04 AM
Tebow improves the running game but his passing ability isn't remotely on an acceptable level for an NFL QB and probably never will be. This was a fun experiment but it's probably time to start thinking about going a different direction. Great kid, was hoping it would work out. But my largest concerns have all materialized. He just can't throw the ball consistently well enough to make it at this level.

Steve Prefontaine
01-02-2012, 09:07 AM
Next year, bring in another rookie QB. Give him a season. If he doesn't win the Super Bowl, cut him. The year after, bring in another one. Give him a year. No Super Bowl? Cut. Rinse, repeat.

Spider
01-02-2012, 09:10 AM
Next year, bring in another rookie QB. Give him a season. If he doesn't win the Super Bowl, cut him. The year after, bring in another one. Give him a year. No Super Bowl? Cut. Rinse, repeat.

well instead of winning a SB , how bout we settle for completing 50% of his passes ..........

schaaf
01-02-2012, 10:10 AM
If you had any other QB in the league with the number 1 rushing attack and a defense that held the opposing team to one touchdown at home, and that QB put up the kind of numbers Tebow did, would you be making the same excuses?

BTW, this poll is public Mile High Mojo

Khan, I've always respected you as a level headed poster. But you have lost that over the last couple weeks. When Orton was playing his last couple games you were calling for his head on the podcasts and on the threads. You wanted Tebow to start and now we went from 1-4 to 8-8 and an AFC West division title. You ask the question that if any other quarterback had that and also if Kyle Orton would have had that bad of a game, well ask yourself this, would we be in the playoffs right now if it would have happened any other way??? Tim Tebow looked bad these last two weeks but he has yet to start a full season and he has yet to endure a full offseason as the starter, many of the things he struggles with he can get better with proper coaching.

Just try to be rational, because these last two weeks you have not been.

houghtam
01-02-2012, 10:16 AM
Khan, I've always respected you as a level headed poster. But you have lost that over the last couple weeks. When Orton was playing his last couple games you were calling for his head on the podcasts and on the threads. You wanted Tebow to start and now we went from 1-4 to 8-8 and an AFC West division title. You ask the question that if any other quarterback had that and also if Kyle Orton would have had that bad of a game, well ask yourself this, would we be in the playoffs right now if it would have happened any other way??? Tim Tebow looked bad these last two weeks but he has yet to start a full season and he has yet to endure a full offseason as the starter, many of the things he struggles with he can get better with proper coaching.

Just try to be rational, because these last two weeks you have not been.

Never happen. You're either an idiot who loves Kyle Orton and losing pretty or an idiot who loves Tim Tebow and winning ugly on this board.

There is no middle ground.

OABB
01-02-2012, 10:17 AM
Tebow is a bust. cut him. two bad games is too much. hes obviously done. and forget what happens next week. even if he wins its over. why waste our time as an orginazation trying to improve him in the offseason. he had his 14 starts.

game over, man.

KO5K
01-02-2012, 10:23 AM
Never happen. You're either an idiot who loves Kyle Orton and losing pretty or an idiot who loves Tim Tebow and winning ugly on this board.

There is no middle ground.

Neither side allows a middle ground.

If you try and point out the poor playcalling and poor separation the receivers are getting, you're labelled as the idiot who loves Tebow. If you try and point out Tebow's hesitation and inaccuracy, you're labelled as an idiot who loves Kyle Orton.

Then when you get called one or the other, you attack the other poster for being the opposite of what they called you and then over defend your stance.

Put me on Tebow's side, it's more enjoyable.

houghtam
01-02-2012, 10:24 AM
Neither side allows a middle ground.

If you try and point out the poor playcalling and poor separation the receivers are getting, you're labelled as the idiot who loves Tebow. If you try and point out Tebow's hesitation and inaccuracy you're labelled as an idiot who loves Kyle Orton.

Then when you get called one or the other, you attack the other poster for being the opposite of what they called you and then over defend your stance.

Put me on Tebow's side, it's more enjoyable.

Solid post.

DBroncos4life
01-02-2012, 10:25 AM
If Tebow could spin a football like he spins himself we win this game. Also while Orton sucks he did just beat us.

houghtam
01-02-2012, 10:26 AM
If Tebow could spin a football like he spins himself we win this game. Also while Orton sucks he did just beat us.

Yeah, he cost us 5 losses this season.

Spider
01-02-2012, 10:27 AM
Yeah, he cost us 5 losses this season.

Hilarious! so those wins were all teebs , and the losses belong to everyone else .....****ing tool

houghtam
01-02-2012, 10:28 AM
derp

derp

DBroncos4life
01-02-2012, 10:31 AM
Yeah, he cost us 5 losses this season.

He beat us. Tebow fumble cost us that game. As spider said its all or nothing with you guys. That's why no QB will be successful in Denver.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 10:32 AM
27.3: Tim Tebow’s completion percentage Sunday, the lowest for any quarterback with at least 20 attempts in a game (per Pro-Football-Reference.com) since Carolina’s Jake Delhomme completed only seven of 27 passes for a touchdown and four interceptions at Oakland on Nov. 9, 2008.

Jay3
01-02-2012, 10:37 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

I think there pretty much are a lot of calls for his head, even after less than one pro season of experience.

No need to get out the "double standard" stick -- Tebow will be out of here a lot quicker than Orton if things don't improve.

MrPeepers
01-02-2012, 10:56 AM
i dont get why he hasnt learned to throw out of bounds when hes shedding tackles ad looking at noone open.

ColoradoDarin
01-02-2012, 11:08 AM
i dont get why he hasnt learned to throw out of bounds when hes shedding tackles ad looking at noone open.

New coaching staff (even though we kept McCoy, we moved from McDaniels O to Foxball). No off season work with our coaches, Orton named the starter in camp, Orton starting the first 5 games of the season, and the new CBA limiting Bye week work time. All while we're trying to win games.

For what it was, we made the playoffs! Yeah our offense looks very inept at (most) times, but we have so many young players who didn't have a full off season with this staff to prepare properly.

This year was always a throwaway (you can use "transition" there too) year for us, New coach with lockout and 2nd worst team in the league last year meant that we are rebuilding, and despite that we played good enough, with some good luck to earn a playoff berth.

More than likely we're going to lose next week, but you know what, I've enjoyed this season so much more than last. Give us a full real off season, another good draft and I'm excited about the future of the Denver Broncos Football Organization!

houghtam
01-02-2012, 11:10 AM
New coaching staff (even though we kept McCoy, we moved from McDaniels O to Foxball). No off season work with our coaches, Orton named the starter in camp, Orton starting the first 5 games of the season, and the new CBA limiting Bye week work time. All while we're trying to win games.

For what it was, we made the playoffs! Yeah our offense looks very inept at (most) times, but we have so many young players who didn't have a full off season with this staff to prepare properly.

This year was always a throwaway (you can use "transition" there too) year for us, New coach with lockout and 2nd worst team in the league last year meant that we are rebuilding, and despite that we played good enough, with some good luck to earn a playoff berth.

More than likely we're going to lose next week, but you know what, I've enjoyed this season so much more than last. Give us a full real off season, another good draft and I'm excited about the future of the Denver Broncos Football Organization!

Rep.

bowtown
01-02-2012, 11:31 AM
Khan, I've always respected you as a level headed poster. But you have lost that over the last couple weeks. When Orton was playing his last couple games you were calling for his head on the podcasts and on the threads. You wanted Tebow to start and now we went from 1-4 to 8-8 and an AFC West division title. You ask the question that if any other quarterback had that and also if Kyle Orton would have had that bad of a game, well ask yourself this, would we be in the playoffs right now if it would have happened any other way??? Tim Tebow looked bad these last two weeks but he has yet to start a full season and he has yet to endure a full offseason as the starter, many of the things he struggles with he can get better with proper coaching.

Just try to be rational, because these last two weeks you have not been.

I'm not really sure what you are talking about. The whole point of his post was exactly what you stated above in bold. I really don't see how it's not rational. If anything he's one of the ONLY rational ones and his poll is simply poking fun of some of the others around here that are completely off the ****ing reservation.

People are so touchy about Timmy.

Natedog24
01-02-2012, 11:46 AM
27.3: Tim Tebowís completion percentage Sunday, the lowest for any quarterback with at least 20 attempts in a game (per Pro-Football-Reference.com) since Carolinaís Jake Delhomme completed only seven of 27 passes for a touchdown and four interceptions at Oakland on Nov. 9, 2008.

See, its all John Fox's fault! :curtsey:

Kaylore
01-02-2012, 11:58 AM
I know that he's not mormon and you don't like non-Mormons and all, but you are beyond silly at this point.

You got me! I don't like Tebow because he isn't Mormon just like Chris Kuper!

Kaylore
01-02-2012, 12:00 PM
Khan, I've always respected you as a level headed poster. But you have lost that over the last couple weeks. When Orton was playing his last couple games you were calling for his head on the podcasts and on the threads. You wanted Tebow to start and now we went from 1-4 to 8-8 and an AFC West division title. You ask the question that if any other quarterback had that and also if Kyle Orton would have had that bad of a game, well ask yourself this, would we be in the playoffs right now if it would have happened any other way??? Tim Tebow looked bad these last two weeks but he has yet to start a full season and he has yet to endure a full offseason as the starter, many of the things he struggles with he can get better with proper coaching.

Just try to be rational, because these last two weeks you have not been.
You obviously are missing my point. I am not arguing for Kyle Orton. He's absolutely awful and Tebow was better than him. Unfortunately, the last few weeks Tebow's adopted the worst aspects of Orton's game.

Mouth
01-02-2012, 12:13 PM
We have the absolute worst receivers in the NFL. I counted 2 times that TT missed seeing an open WR. Yes he needs to get his timing down. Yes he needs to get the ball out earlier. Keep in mind ....... 2nd season. If you want to see how good a QB can look, who has the record for most TD passes by a packer in a game? Oh that's right Matt Flynn. He must be the best QB in the league. Or the packers might ...... might just have better receivers, O linemen, tight ends, and offensive coordinator. I'm not saying TT is better, or even as good as, Aaron Rodgers, but when you have a good offense it doesn't matter how good your QB is. Patriots were 11-5 when Brady missed the entire season?

Mouth

TheReverend
01-02-2012, 12:27 PM
It is what it is.

http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

Kaylore
01-02-2012, 12:32 PM
We have the absolute worst receivers in the NFL. I counted 2 times that TT missed seeing an open WR. Yes he needs to get his timing down. Yes he needs to get the ball out earlier. Keep in mind ....... 2nd season. If you want to see how good a QB can look, who has the record for most TD passes by a packer in a game? Oh that's right Matt Flynn. He must be the best QB in the league. Or the packers might ...... might just have better receivers, O linemen, tight ends, and offensive coordinator. I'm not saying TT is better, or even as good as, Aaron Rodgers, but when you have a good offense it doesn't matter how good your QB is. Patriots were 11-5 when Brady missed the entire season?

Mouth

We do need better receiving threats for sure. WR, TE, RB's that can catch out of the backfield. It's definitely not helping. But Tebow can't wait for his guys to get "wide open" to throw the ball to them. Single coverage in the NFL IS open and he needs to give them more chances.

TheDave
01-02-2012, 12:33 PM
sorry... forgot to check the "You suck, Khan" box.


;D

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 12:34 PM
I think the coaches put Tebow in that bad position. There was nothing Tim could do because of the bad playcalling.


I fully agree but not to the point of getting tebow completely off the hook.

Mouth
01-02-2012, 12:45 PM
We do need better receiving threats for sure. WR, TE, RB's that can catch out of the backfield. It's definitely not helping. But Tebow can't wait for his guys to get "wide open" to throw the ball to them. Single coverage in the NFL IS open and he needs to give them more chances.

Yeah, I'm not saying that TT wasn't to blame at all for the loss, or other ones this season. My point is that a young QB and receivers that can't get open is not a good combo. Sure he needs to work on his timing, that will get better with a full off-season with the WR's. I think there is a LOT of trust issues with TT and the WR's. Look what Jay Cutler was going through in Chicago for 2-3 years until they taught the young WR's how to run a rout.

Mouth

Mile High Mojoe
01-02-2012, 01:59 PM
Kaylore, Iím no blind homer. Iíve been just as critical of players and the coaches in the 6 years Iíve been on the OM as you. My gripe about your poll was that no one had to defend their vote. Iím not afraid of being called less of ďfanĒ for my opinion and Iíll stand by why I vote a certain way in a poll. Yesterday I was wrong and I can accept that, Iíve been wrong before and I probably will be again but at least I have the guts to stand by my position.

I had my doubts too yesterday. IMO it was more about the D going in than Tebow but I still liked the Broncos chances to win the game because the Chiefs are crappy football team. I canít explain the win they had over the Packers. Maybe it was just an off day for a coasting Packers team who had nothing to play for and a Chiefs team playing their collective asses off for a new HC so maybe they could retain jobs next season. I just didnít believe that this win was a paradigm shift that was going to launch the Chiefs into the new millennium of winning football.

So this was why I picked the Broncos to win yesterday despite how horrible Tebow had played, how awful the D and Special Teams has played and how predictable the offensive game plans have been over the previous 2 weeks.

I said before the game with the Chiefs that if the Broncos could play better D, tackle, cover and get pressure on Orton they would win the game. They did that and more held the lousy Orton led offense to 7 points. I also said the Broncos had to be less predictable on offense and throw the ball on 1st and 2nd down. They did that too. The banged up McGahee deserve some kudos for being a warrior and banging out 145 yards yesterday but even that wasnít enough.

So what happened?

Tebow had an absolutely horrible game; I believe the worst of his young career. He threw ball to short, he threw them to long, he held onto the ball too long, he should have made a quicker decisions to throw the ball away rather than take sacks. He threw the ball into good coverage too many times and had an INT; he also had a critical fumble. He had time on several passing plays but either couldnít find an open Receiver or just didnít have the confidence enough in his arm to attempt to thread the needle and make tight throws. I noticed on several passing plays he didnít have his feet in a good position to make throws, he was off balance and leaving his feet when he threw balls on the run.

Tebowís game clearly showed that he has a very long way to go when it comes to the passing game in many areas.

So there you have it, Iíve watched the games just like you have I can admit this. Still, despite backing into the playoffs with Tebow playing his worst football game so far THEY DID make it to the playoffs and by the way THEY DID earn it based on a better common record. Tebow was a big part of why they made the playoffs with the help of a much improved D. Despite losing their last 3 games they had a remarkable season with basically the same group of players (with the exception of Miller and Dumervil) that they had last year and doubled their win total.

So you can look at it several different ways. I choose to look at this season as a big improvement and something to build unlike many in here that week to week are on and off the Broncos bandwagon.

Iíll be rooting for the Broncos to pull off a big upset next week but they will get beat by the Steelers, their D will overwhelm the Broncos so Iíll just say it now.

So what happens afterwards?

I think the Broncos have to give Tebow at least the chance at one more season. Theyíll need to draft QB in the later rounds or pick up one of the free agents that'll be available. Quinn sucks and should be traded or released. If Tebow still hasnít improved by mid-season of next year then by all means he has to be removed but he certainly has played well enough this season to deserve that much. The Broncos need RBís, DBís, WRís, DLís and now maybe another Guard since Kuper got hurt. Taking a QB in the first round isnít going to make the Broncos a playoff team next year so Iíd wait until 2013 to consider drafting a QB early.

So Kaylore if you took the Chiefs yesterday Bravo! You were right but is it something to be brag or be happy about it? Iím pissed, I was wrong and even though the Broncos are heavy underdogs going in against the Steelers Iíd love to see an upset. Its a long rant I know and I fully expect the haters to not read any of this nor argue about the football parts of the game I stated but will instead attack me personally, call me names and say Iím an idiot. Bring it on, show what true trolls you truly are.

houghtam
01-02-2012, 02:10 PM
Kaylore, Iím no blind homer. Iíve been just as critical of players and the coaches in the 6 years Iíve been on the OM as you. My gripe about your poll was that no one had to defend their vote. Iím not afraid of being called less of ďfanĒ for my opinion and Iíll stand by why I vote a certain way in a poll. Yesterday I was wrong and I can accept that, Iíve been wrong before and I probably will be again but at least I have the guts to stand by my position.

I had my doubts too yesterday. IMO it was more about the D going in than Tebow but I still liked the Broncos chances to win the game because the Chiefs are crappy football team. I canít explain the win they had over the Packers. Maybe it was just an off day for a coasting Packers team who had nothing to play for and a Chiefs team playing their collective asses off for a new HC so maybe they could retain jobs next season. I just didnít believe that this win was a paradigm shift that was going to launch the Chiefs into the new millennium of winning football.

So this was why I picked the Broncos to win yesterday despite how horrible Tebow had played, how awful the D and Special Teams has played and how predictable the offensive game plans have been over the previous 2 weeks.

I said before the game with the Chiefs that if the Broncos could play better D, tackle, cover and get pressure on Orton they would win the game. They did that and more held the lousy Orton led offense to 7 points. I also said the Broncos had to be less predictable on offense and throw the ball on 1st and 2nd down. They did that too. The banged up McGahee deserve some kudos for being a warrior and banging out 145 yards yesterday but even that wasnít enough.

So what happened?

Tebow had an absolutely horrible game; I believe the worst of his young career. He threw ball to short, he threw them to long, he held onto the ball too long, he should have made a quicker decisions to throw the ball away rather than take sacks. He threw the ball into good coverage too many times and had an INT; he also had a critical fumble. He had time on several passing plays but either couldnít find an open Receiver or just didnít have the confidence enough in his arm to attempt to thread the needle and make tight throws. I noticed on several passing plays he didnít have his feet in a good position to make throws, he was off balance and leaving his feet when he threw balls on the run.

Tebowís game clearly showed that he has a very long way to go when it comes to the passing game in many areas.

So there you have it, Iíve watched the games just like you have I can admit this. Still, despite backing into the playoffs with Tebow playing his worst football game so far THEY DID make it to the playoffs and by the way THEY DID earn it based on a better common record. Tebow was a big part of why they made the playoffs with the help of a much improved D. Despite losing their last 3 games they had a remarkable season with basically the same group of players (with the exception of Miller and Dumervil) that they had last year and doubled their win total.

So you can look at it several different ways. I choose to look at this season as a big improvement and something to build unlike many in here that week to week are on and off the Broncos bandwagon.

Iíll be rooting for the Broncos to pull off a big upset next week but they will get beat by the Steelers, their D will overwhelm the Broncos so Iíll just say it now.

So what happens afterwards?

I think the Broncos have to give Tebow at least the chance at one more season. Theyíll need to draft QB in the later rounds or pick up one of the free agents that'll be available. Quinn sucks and should be traded or released. If Tebow still hasnít improved by mid-season of next year then by all means he has to be removed but he certainly has played well enough this season to deserve that much. The Broncos need RBís, DBís, WRís, DLís and now maybe another Guard since Kuper got hurt. Taking a QB in the first round isnít going to make the Broncos a playoff team next year so Iíd wait until 2013 to consider drafting a QB early.

So Kaylore if you took the Chiefs yesterday Bravo! You were right but is it something to be brag or be happy about it? Iím pissed, I was wrong and even though the Broncos are heavy underdogs going in against the Steelers Iíd love to see an upset. Its long rant I know and I fully expect the haters to not read any of this nor argue about the football parts of the game I stated but will instead attack me personally, call me names and say Iím an idiot. Bring it on, show what true trolls you truly are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect

Turd_Ferguson
01-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Kaylore, Iím no blind homer. Iíve been just as critical of players and the coaches in the 6 years Iíve been on the OM as you. My gripe about your poll was that no one had to defend their vote. Iím not afraid of being called less of ďfanĒ for my opinion and Iíll stand by why I vote a certain way in a poll. Yesterday I was wrong and I can accept that, Iíve been wrong before and I probably will be again but at least I have the guts to stand by my position.

I had my doubts too yesterday. IMO it was more about the D going in than Tebow but I still liked the Broncos chances to win the game because the Chiefs are crappy football team. I canít explain the win they had over the Packers. Maybe it was just an off day for a coasting Packers team who had nothing to play for and a Chiefs team playing their collective asses off for a new HC so maybe they could retain jobs next season. I just didnít believe that this win was a paradigm shift that was going to launch the Chiefs into the new millennium of winning football.

So this was why I picked the Broncos to win yesterday despite how horrible Tebow had played, how awful the D and Special Teams has played and how predictable the offensive game plans have been over the previous 2 weeks.

I said before the game with the Chiefs that if the Broncos could play better D, tackle, cover and get pressure on Orton they would win the game. They did that and more held the lousy Orton led offense to 7 points. I also said the Broncos had to be less predictable on offense and throw the ball on 1st and 2nd down. They did that too. The banged up McGahee deserve some kudos for being a warrior and banging out 145 yards yesterday but even that wasnít enough.

So what happened?

Tebow had an absolutely horrible game; I believe the worst of his young career. He threw ball to short, he threw them to long, he held onto the ball too long, he should have made a quicker decisions to throw the ball away rather than take sacks. He threw the ball into good coverage too many times and had an INT; he also had a critical fumble. He had time on several passing plays but either couldnít find an open Receiver or just didnít have the confidence enough in his arm to attempt to thread the needle and make tight throws. I noticed on several passing plays he didnít have his feet in a good position to make throws, he was off balance and leaving his feet when he threw balls on the run.

Tebowís game clearly showed that he has a very long way to go when it comes to the passing game in many areas.

So there you have it, Iíve watched the games just like you have I can admit this. Still, despite backing into the playoffs with Tebow playing his worst football game so far THEY DID make it to the playoffs and by the way THEY DID earn it based on a better common record. Tebow was a big part of why they made the playoffs with the help of a much improved D. Despite losing their last 3 games they had a remarkable season with basically the same group of players (with the exception of Miller and Dumervil) that they had last year and doubled their win total.

So you can look at it several different ways. I choose to look at this season as a big improvement and something to build unlike many in here that week to week are on and off the Broncos bandwagon.

Iíll be rooting for the Broncos to pull off a big upset next week but they will get beat by the Steelers, their D will overwhelm the Broncos so Iíll just say it now.

So what happens afterwards?

I think the Broncos have to give Tebow at least the chance at one more season. Theyíll need to draft QB in the later rounds or pick up one of the free agents that'll be available. Quinn sucks and should be traded or released. If Tebow still hasnít improved by mid-season of next year then by all means he has to be removed but he certainly has played enough this season to deserve that much. The Broncos need RBís, DBís, WRís, DLís and now maybe another Guard since Kuper got hurt. Taking a QB in the first round isnít going to make the Broncos a playoff team next year so Iíd wait until 2013 to consider drafting a QB early.

So Kaylore if you took the Chiefs yesterday Bravo! You were right but is it something to be brag or be happy about it? Iím pissed, I was wrong and even though the Broncos are heavy underdogs going in against the Steelers Iíd love to see an upset. Its long rant I know and I fully expect the haters to not read any of this nor argue about the football parts of the game I stated but will instead attack me personally, call me names and say Iím an idiot. Bring it on, show what true trolls you truly are.

so after reading this entire post I come away wanting to attack you personally and call you an idiot. The part that stuck out to me the most is when you say Tebow has played enough this year to play another season at QB with the Broncos. In the same breath your dumb ass says that you have seen enough of Quinn to decide he sucks and should be traded or cut.

How many regular season games have you seen Quinn play? Zero, yet you whine and cry like a little girl that people haven't given Tebow enough of a chance, and then you decide to just cut Quinn having never seen him play a game for the Broncos..

You ran your mouth like a total idiot and said see you sunday Turd Bucket... Well it took you till monday but you finally sleazed your way back you mouthy douche.

Mile High Mojoe
01-02-2012, 02:13 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect

So this means you didn't read any of it right? Thank you.

McDman
01-02-2012, 02:14 PM
http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

I don't know why but that makes me laugh about every time.

Paladin
01-02-2012, 02:15 PM
Tebow was great in college.


Key words....

SoCalBronco
01-02-2012, 02:16 PM
If you had any other QB in the league with the number 1 rushing attack and a defense that held the opposing team to one touchdown at home, and that QB put up the kind of numbers Tebow did, would you be making the same excuses?

BTW, this poll is public Mile High Mojo

WTF...where's the "If we still had Cutler, we'd be the No. 1 seed in the AFC Playoffs" option, so I can have something to vote for.

:)

houghtam
01-02-2012, 02:18 PM
So this means you didn't read any of it right? Thank you.

Simply pointing out why the poll wasn't public.

gunns
01-02-2012, 02:34 PM
Never happen. You're either an idiot who loves Kyle Orton and losing pretty or an idiot who loves Tim Tebow and winning ugly on this board.

There is no middle ground.

Yes there is a middle ground. Problem is we're not winning pretty and it's gotten so ugly we're not winning either. Great to be in the playoffs but what we've seen the last couple of weeks, we're not going to win pretty or ugly, and we'll be back at square one. This is about the Broncos, not Tim Tebow, and right now Tebow isn't doing anything good for the Broncos. Might I add, and I will, how insanely stupid it is to say someone loves Orton and losing because they don't like how we are losing with Tebow too. Just plain stupid.

If meant sarcastically, the post is for the others and they know who they are.

EmpireOrange
01-02-2012, 02:38 PM
We do need better receiving threats for sure. WR, TE, RB's that can catch out of the backfield. It's definitely not helping. But Tebow can't wait for his guys to get "wide open" to throw the ball to them. Single coverage in the NFL IS open and he needs to give them more chances.

This.

A QB afraid to throw the ball is like a flightless bird, a fish who hates water and a fart that doesn't stink. Nobody wants to face it, but Tebow sealed his fate as an NFL QB yesterday. A player can make many mistakes, and lose ball games. But when you show coaches and GMs that you are afraid its over.

gunns
01-02-2012, 02:45 PM
Kaylore, Iím no blind homer. Iíve been just as critical of players and the coaches in the 6 years Iíve been on the OM as you. My gripe about your poll was that no one had to defend their vote. Iím not afraid of being called less of ďfanĒ for my opinion and Iíll stand by why I vote a certain way in a poll. Yesterday I was wrong and I can accept that, Iíve been wrong before and I probably will be again but at least I have the guts to stand by my position.

I had my doubts too yesterday. IMO it was more about the D going in than Tebow but I still liked the Broncos chances to win the game because the Chiefs are crappy football team. I canít explain the win they had over the Packers. Maybe it was just an off day for a coasting Packers team who had nothing to play for and a Chiefs team playing their collective asses off for a new HC so maybe they could retain jobs next season. I just didnít believe that this win was a paradigm shift that was going to launch the Chiefs into the new millennium of winning football.

So this was why I picked the Broncos to win yesterday despite how horrible Tebow had played, how awful the D and Special Teams has played and how predictable the offensive game plans have been over the previous 2 weeks.

I said before the game with the Chiefs that if the Broncos could play better D, tackle, cover and get pressure on Orton they would win the game. They did that and more held the lousy Orton led offense to 7 points. I also said the Broncos had to be less predictable on offense and throw the ball on 1st and 2nd down. They did that too. The banged up McGahee deserve some kudos for being a warrior and banging out 145 yards yesterday but even that wasnít enough.

So what happened?

Tebow had an absolutely horrible game; I believe the worst of his young career. He threw ball to short, he threw them to long, he held onto the ball too long, he should have made a quicker decisions to throw the ball away rather than take sacks. He threw the ball into good coverage too many times and had an INT; he also had a critical fumble. He had time on several passing plays but either couldnít find an open Receiver or just didnít have the confidence enough in his arm to attempt to thread the needle and make tight throws. I noticed on several passing plays he didnít have his feet in a good position to make throws, he was off balance and leaving his feet when he threw balls on the run.

Tebowís game clearly showed that he has a very long way to go when it comes to the passing game in many areas.

So there you have it, Iíve watched the games just like you have I can admit this. Still, despite backing into the playoffs with Tebow playing his worst football game so far THEY DID make it to the playoffs and by the way THEY DID earn it based on a better common record. Tebow was a big part of why they made the playoffs with the help of a much improved D. Despite losing their last 3 games they had a remarkable season with basically the same group of players (with the exception of Miller and Dumervil) that they had last year and doubled their win total.

So you can look at it several different ways. I choose to look at this season as a big improvement and something to build unlike many in here that week to week are on and off the Broncos bandwagon.

Iíll be rooting for the Broncos to pull off a big upset next week but they will get beat by the Steelers, their D will overwhelm the Broncos so Iíll just say it now.

So what happens afterwards?

I think the Broncos have to give Tebow at least the chance at one more season. Theyíll need to draft QB in the later rounds or pick up one of the free agents that'll be available. Quinn sucks and should be traded or released. If Tebow still hasnít improved by mid-season of next year then by all means he has to be removed but he certainly has played well enough this season to deserve that much. The Broncos need RBís, DBís, WRís, DLís and now maybe another Guard since Kuper got hurt. Taking a QB in the first round isnít going to make the Broncos a playoff team next year so Iíd wait until 2013 to consider drafting a QB early.

So Kaylore if you took the Chiefs yesterday Bravo! You were right but is it something to be brag or be happy about it? Iím pissed, I was wrong and even though the Broncos are heavy underdogs going in against the Steelers Iíd love to see an upset. Its a long rant I know and I fully expect the haters to not read any of this nor argue about the football parts of the game I stated but will instead attack me personally, call me names and say Iím an idiot. Bring it on, show what true trolls you truly are.

All you really needed to do was say I was wrong. We've all been there. But no, you had to be the fan police. Ruined it.

SoCalBronco
01-02-2012, 02:46 PM
Kaylore, Iím no blind homer. Iíve been just as critical of players and the coaches in the 6 years Iíve been on the OM as you. My gripe about your poll was that no one had to defend their vote. Iím not afraid of being called less of ďfanĒ for my opinion and Iíll stand by why I vote a certain way in a poll. Yesterday I was wrong and I can accept that, Iíve been wrong before and I probably will be again but at least I have the guts to stand by my position.

I had my doubts too yesterday. IMO it was more about the D going in than Tebow but I still liked the Broncos chances to win the game because the Chiefs are crappy football team. I canít explain the win they had over the Packers. Maybe it was just an off day for a coasting Packers team who had nothing to play for and a Chiefs team playing their collective asses off for a new HC so maybe they could retain jobs next season. I just didnít believe that this win was a paradigm shift that was going to launch the Chiefs into the new millennium of winning football.

So this was why I picked the Broncos to win yesterday despite how horrible Tebow had played, how awful the D and Special Teams has played and how predictable the offensive game plans have been over the previous 2 weeks.

I said before the game with the Chiefs that if the Broncos could play better D, tackle, cover and get pressure on Orton they would win the game. They did that and more held the lousy Orton led offense to 7 points. I also said the Broncos had to be less predictable on offense and throw the ball on 1st and 2nd down. They did that too. The banged up McGahee deserve some kudos for being a warrior and banging out 145 yards yesterday but even that wasnít enough.

So what happened?

Tebow had an absolutely horrible game; I believe the worst of his young career. He threw ball to short, he threw them to long, he held onto the ball too long, he should have made a quicker decisions to throw the ball away rather than take sacks. He threw the ball into good coverage too many times and had an INT; he also had a critical fumble. He had time on several passing plays but either couldnít find an open Receiver or just didnít have the confidence enough in his arm to attempt to thread the needle and make tight throws. I noticed on several passing plays he didnít have his feet in a good position to make throws, he was off balance and leaving his feet when he threw balls on the run.

Tebowís game clearly showed that he has a very long way to go when it comes to the passing game in many areas.

So there you have it, Iíve watched the games just like you have I can admit this. Still, despite backing into the playoffs with Tebow playing his worst football game so far THEY DID make it to the playoffs and by the way THEY DID earn it based on a better common record. Tebow was a big part of why they made the playoffs with the help of a much improved D. Despite losing their last 3 games they had a remarkable season with basically the same group of players (with the exception of Miller and Dumervil) that they had last year and doubled their win total.

So you can look at it several different ways. I choose to look at this season as a big improvement and something to build unlike many in here that week to week are on and off the Broncos bandwagon.

Iíll be rooting for the Broncos to pull off a big upset next week but they will get beat by the Steelers, their D will overwhelm the Broncos so Iíll just say it now.

So what happens afterwards?

I think the Broncos have to give Tebow at least the chance at one more season. Theyíll need to draft QB in the later rounds or pick up one of the free agents that'll be available. Quinn sucks and should be traded or released. If Tebow still hasnít improved by mid-season of next year then by all means he has to be removed but he certainly has played well enough this season to deserve that much. The Broncos need RBís, DBís, WRís, DLís and now maybe another Guard since Kuper got hurt. Taking a QB in the first round isnít going to make the Broncos a playoff team next year so Iíd wait until 2013 to consider drafting a QB early.

So Kaylore if you took the Chiefs yesterday Bravo! You were right but is it something to be brag or be happy about it? Iím pissed, I was wrong and even though the Broncos are heavy underdogs going in against the Steelers Iíd love to see an upset. Its a long rant I know and I fully expect the haters to not read any of this nor argue about the football parts of the game I stated but will instead attack me personally, call me names and say Iím an idiot. Bring it on, show what true trolls you truly are.

You were running your mouth before the game blasting fans for saying their gut felt a loss to the Chiefs was coming and that you "should have waited until after the game" to post since you were presumably going to call people out. You put yourself out there like that and there's going to be blowback when you are wrong. It's just a fact of life.

GreatBronco16
01-02-2012, 03:06 PM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

7 year vet compared to a guy in his 2nd year, with limited offseason with the current staff.

Yeah, you make a great argument there. Can't wait to read more of your 'expert' takes. Are you really becoming this dense? Or did TJ talk you into posting like this to stir things up around here even more?

jsco70
01-02-2012, 03:11 PM
7 year vet compared to a guy in his 2nd year, with limited offseason with the current staff.

Yeah, you make a great argument there. Can't wait to read more of your 'expert' takes. Are you really becoming this dense? Or did TJ talk you into posting like this to stir things up around here even more?

This.

TheReverend
01-02-2012, 03:12 PM
Enjoying this thread.

I think the premise is stupid, but I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

Turd_Ferguson
01-02-2012, 03:23 PM
7 year vet compared to a guy in his 2nd year, with limited offseason with the current staff.

Yeah, you make a great argument there. Can't wait to read more of your 'expert' takes. Are you really becoming this dense? Or did TJ talk you into posting like this to stir things up around here even more?

So are you people that use the only played 2 years defense going to be happy if we wait another 5 years before we look for a different QB or will you still blindly love Tebow?

2KBack
01-02-2012, 03:27 PM
so after reading this entire post I come away wanting to attack you personally and call you an idiot. The part that stuck out to me the most is when you say Tebow has played enough this year to play another season at QB with the Broncos. In the same breath your dumb ass says that you have seen enough of Quinn to decide he sucks and should be traded or cut.

How many regular season games have you seen Quinn play? Zero, yet you whine and cry like a little girl that people haven't given Tebow enough of a chance, and then you decide to just cut Quinn having never seen him play a game for the Broncos..

You ran your mouth like a total idiot and said see you sunday Turd Bucket... Well it took you till monday but you finally sleazed your way back you mouthy douche.

Quinn has played in fewer games as a pro than Tebow, and all for the waste of space Cleveland. Talk about a guy who hasn't really gotten a chance.

Turd_Ferguson
01-02-2012, 03:32 PM
Quinn has played in fewer games as a pro than Tebow, and all for the waste of space Cleveland. Talk about a guy who hasn't really gotten a chance.

I know, it seems odd to me hardly anybody here wants to even check him out... You even mention his name and ten people jump up to tell you how much he sucks and how big a jerk you are for even mentioning his name, when Tebow has clearly locked up the QB position for the next 40 years.

Kaylore
01-02-2012, 04:09 PM
So Kaylore if you took the Chiefs yesterday Bravo! You were right but is it something to be brag or be happy about it?

MHM, do I sound happy?

GreatBronco16
01-02-2012, 04:41 PM
So are you people that use the only played 2 years defense going to be happy if we wait another 5 years before we look for a different QB or will you still blindly love Tebow?

Who the F are 'you' people? I'm willing to give the guy two full seasons, esp with a complete offseason/camp to improve before I want to give up on him. Just like I would be willing to give any new QB a couple full seasons to groom.

Hamrob
01-02-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm on the record for being a Tebow supporter. That isn't going to change.

However, He has not played well the last 3-weeks. Personally, I believe its because there isn't confidence in him within Dove Valley. He's a sharp kid, he can sense it. From the moment he took the reigns, they've been waiting for him to fail.

You cannot criticize a QB, when you don't allow him to throw the ball. It's odd to me the criticism about him not making throws or locking into one receiver...when all the Broncos are doing in the passing game is sending out 2 WR's. They are going double tight , with 2 wideouts. That's a running formation that Tebow is being asked to pass out of. Guess what? Nobody is open.

For all you experts out there...replay the game and look for all the open receivers. Good luck to you. They're not there. Add to the problem, the fact that he's not throwing it until it's 3rd down...and you have problems.

Why aren't we throwing 5-10yd routes to get his confidence up? Why not run the zero route with Thomas...he's a playmaker. They need to have Tebow take a 3 step drop and fire the ball...slants, hooks, TE dumps..............they refuse to even try.

I initially thought it's just McCoy's inexperience.....but, listening to Phil Simms yesterday...it's easy to see, it's John Fox. He doesn't want to throw the ball(period)!

***Yes, Tebow is not playing well. He has to get better or he will not make it in this league. But, it's not just Tebow and I truly don't believe Orton/Quinn would have made this team better than Tim Tebow has.

bigbucks24
01-02-2012, 05:06 PM
Quinn sucks and should be traded or released.

Here is the part I don't understand. Career stats.

Quinn
184 of 353 passes
52.1%
1902 Yards
66.8 Rating

Tebow
167 of 353 passes
47.3%
2383 yards
75.1%

How does Quinn suck but Tebow has shown enough to get another year?

snowspot66
01-02-2012, 05:15 PM
Here's the problem. We know we only have the #1 rushing game in the league BECAUSE of Tebow. With Orton it was complete ****.

We get rid of Tebow and we lose the only part of the offense that does play well. Better to work with him and try to make him a better passer.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 05:19 PM
Here's the problem. We know we only have the #1 rushing game in the league BECAUSE of Tebow. With Orton it was complete ****.

We get rid of Tebow and we lose the only part of the offense that does play well. Better to work with him and try to make him a better passer.


McGahee disagrees.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Here is the part I don't understand. Career stats.

Quinn
184 of 353 passes
52.1%
1902 Yards
66.8 Rating

Tebow
167 of 353 passes
47.3%
2383 yards
75.1%

How does Quinn suck but Tebow has shown enough to get another year?


Quinn has been in the league for how many years?

houghtam
01-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Here is the part I don't understand. Career stats.

Quinn
184 of 353 passes
52.1%
1902 Yards
66.8 Rating

Tebow
167 of 353 passes
47.3%
2383 yards
75.1%

How does Quinn suck but Tebow has shown enough to get another year?

Well here's one reason:

Quinn's record: 3-9
Tebow's record: 8-6

bigbucks24
01-02-2012, 05:29 PM
Quinn has been in the league for how many years?

They have both thrown the same number of passes so I would assume that they have both played the same number of games. Afterall, it's not the years you have been in the league, it's the number of games you have played (hence the idea that Tebow is a rookie).

PS. Brady had played in 14 games and Tim 23.

bigbucks24
01-02-2012, 05:30 PM
Well here's one reason:

Quinn's record: 3-9
Tebow's record: 8-6

So we can now judge QBs talent by their records alone?

bigbucks24
01-02-2012, 05:31 PM
And I'm not even arguing that Quinn is good. I'm only asking how it can be determined that Quinn sucks and Tim has shown enough to get another season.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 05:34 PM
They have both thrown the same number of passes so I would assume that they have both played the same number of games. Afterall, it's not the years you have been in the league, it's the number of games you have played (hence the idea that Tebow is a rookie).

PS. Brady had played in 14 games and Tim 23.


Quinn played only 14 games cause he sucks he can read a playbook though.

yerner
01-02-2012, 05:36 PM
And I'm not even arguing that Quinn is good. I'm only asking how it can be determined that Quinn sucks and Tim has shown enough to get another season.

No, you're right. For some reason Quinn has always been an afterthought in Denver. I agree that the jury is still out on his career. It will be a shame if never gets a chance and goes some where else and proves to be an asset. Even if it's only as a backup role which denver could surely use.

Shotgun Willie
01-02-2012, 05:41 PM
Here's the problem. We know we only have the #1 rushing game in the league BECAUSE of Tebow. With Orton it was complete ****.

We get rid of Tebow and we lose the only part of the offense that does play well. Better to work with him and try to make him a better passer.

Here's the problem. We know we only have the #32 passing game in the league BECAUSE of Tebow. With Orton it was top 10.

We get rid of Tebow and we improve the part of the offense that plays like dog crap.

snowspot66
01-02-2012, 05:45 PM
McGahee disagrees.

Week 1
25 yards TOTAL rushing at 2.08 YPC

Week 2
133 yards total rushing at 3.8 YPC

Week 3
59 yards total rushing at 2.56 YPC

Week 4
113 yards total rushing at 5.3 YPC

So in the four games Orton started and finished for us this year that is how well our running game went. One decent performance in a complete blowout.

Tebow is the catalyst for this running game. It slows down the defenders and forces them to play disciplined at all times. No Tebow no running game. It's up to the coaches and Tebow this off season to get our passing game in order.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 05:48 PM
Here's the problem. We know we only have the #32 passing game in the league BECAUSE of Tebow. With Orton it was top 10.

We get rid of Tebow and we improve the part of the offense that plays like dog crap.


So we reverse the rebuilding process? we need to move towards the future and hiring average sloth QBs gets us no closer to anything the young QB thing has to happen we will have seasons like this some peeps have no patience and some do.

snowspot66
01-02-2012, 05:48 PM
Here's the problem. We know we only have the #32 passing game in the league BECAUSE of Tebow. With Orton it was top 10.

We get rid of Tebow and we improve the part of the offense that plays like dog crap.

Really? Cause looking at the stats says Orton was at less than 200 YPG for us this year. In what universe is that top 10?

Turd_Ferguson
01-02-2012, 07:08 PM
Quinn has been in the league for how many years?

How many starts? Thats what people say in Tebow's defense right? Not to mention how many starts playing for a team outside of Cleveland?

rbackfactory80
01-02-2012, 07:25 PM
Where is the Tebow has been the biggest reason for our run success option?

oubronco
01-02-2012, 07:42 PM
Where is the Tebow has been the biggest reason for our run success option?

Or the reason the passing Offense sucks

houghtam
01-02-2012, 10:29 PM
Or the reason the passing Offense sucks

Or a little from column A and a little from column B.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 12:34 AM
Quinn played only 14 games cause he sucks he can read a playbook though.

But then... wouldn't Quinn still be "basically a rookie" in his 5th NFL season because he's only started 12 games?

/devil's advocate

Mouth
01-03-2012, 12:40 AM
But then... wouldn't Quinn still be "basically a rookie" in his 5th NFL season because he's only started 12 games?

/devil's advocate

Just like Rodgers was basically a rookie after he sat for 3 years in GB? It's not how many starts, or how many games you played. I would estimate that 3 seasons sitting behind the starter = 1 season starting (experience wise).

Mouth

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 01:13 AM
Just like Rodgers was basically a rookie after he sat for 3 years in GB? It's not how many starts, or how many games you played. I would estimate that 3 seasons sitting behind the starter = 1 season starting (experience wise).

Mouth

Point is... it's a double standard to give Tebow the "basically a rookie" excuse if you don't also give it to Quinn. Yet it would be asinine to call a player in his 5th season as a pro... a rookie.

I'd further venture that any NFL player gains some experience in training camp, practice, film study, gamebook study, working with teammates and coaches, etc. They learn terminology and strategy whether they're actually on the field on gameday or not. "Basically a rookie" = new to the team and system; still learning the differences between college football and the NFL.

Mouth
01-03-2012, 01:27 AM
Point is... it's a double standard to give Tebow the "basically a rookie" excuse if you don't also give it to Quinn. Yet it would be asinine to call a player in his 5th season as a pro... a rookie.

I'd further venture that any NFL player gains some experience in training camp, practice, film study, gamebook study, working with teammates and coaches, etc. They learn terminology and strategy whether they're actually on the field on gameday or not. "Basically a rookie" = new to the team and system; still learning the differences between college football and the NFL.

I really need to stop trying to argue with you, because we both say the same thing in a different language.

Mouth

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 01:38 AM
I really need to stop trying to argue with you, because we both say the same thing in a different language.

Mouth

Yep... seems that way. Ha! ^5

fontaine
01-03-2012, 03:11 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there.

Technically yes. But Orton has been in the league for almost a decade.

I expected Tebow to struggle in his first full year year as starter and he has. Any defense with tough CBs can play the kind of press coverage that Tebow struggles against and it's no secret now.

Tebow should rightly be criticized. For his lack of anticipation and timing, for this dumba$$ turnovers the last few weeks, and for being way to hesitant in the pocket. But these are all problems that can be corrected by hard work and reps that I fully expect to take place in the offseason.

jhns
01-03-2012, 05:54 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

Orton is a seven year vet. Tebow just took this team to the playoffs in his first season starting. That is with a team that Orton had at 1-4. Young QBs have bad games. You haters are clowns.

jhns
01-03-2012, 05:55 AM
Point is... it's a double standard to give Tebow the "basically a rookie" excuse if you don't also give it to Quinn. Yet it would be asinine to call a player in his 5th season as a pro... a rookie.

I'd further venture that any NFL player gains some experience in training camp, practice, film study, gamebook study, working with teammates and coaches, etc. They learn terminology and strategy whether they're actually on the field on gameday or not. "Basically a rookie" = new to the team and system; still learning the differences between college football and the NFL.

Quinn has more years in the league and has started before. What a stupid argument.

jhns
01-03-2012, 05:58 AM
Well here's one reason:

Quinn's record: 3-9
Tebow's record: 8-6

Pretty much. The stupidity of the haters is just insane. You people really need to use your heads more.

jhns
01-03-2012, 06:27 AM
One more thing.

This team doesn't have this run game, or defense, without Tebow. This fact sure makes the thread really retarded. I can't believe most of you can even work computers.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:09 AM
Quinn has more years in the league and has started before. What a stupid argument.

Yes, it is a stupid argument (and a lie) to call Tebow a "rookie". He isn't. And neither is Quinn.

jhns
01-03-2012, 07:16 AM
Yes, it is a stupid argument (and a lie) to call Tebow a "rookie". He isn't. And neither is Quinn.

With the lockout, it is also stupid to act like he had the same training as other second year players. The offseason is where young backup QBs get most of their work done. Even Elway has said this. You defend Elway with everything he says and does. Why do you disagree with this one thing?

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:18 AM
With the lockout, it is also stupid to act like he had the same training as other second year players. The offseason is where young backup QBs get most of their work done. Even Elway has said this. You defend Elway with everything he says and does. Why do you disagree with this one thing?

With the lockout, I'm sure Tebow was the ONLY player in the whole NFL who didn't get the same training as other second year players. ::)

jhns
01-03-2012, 07:19 AM
With the lockout, I'm sure Tebow was the ONLY player in the whole NFL who didn't get the same training as other second year players. ::)

Did I say that? What a great made up argument...

Name me the second year QBs that looked good this year? Which ones progressed?

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:21 AM
Did I say that? What a great made up argument...

I'm also sure QB training took precedence over a new autobiography and book tour. Oh and the new Jockey ad.

jhns
01-03-2012, 07:25 AM
I'm also sure QB training took precedence over a new autobiography and book tour. Oh and the new Jockey ad.

So now Tebow doesn't work hard?

Elway is wrong and Tebow doesn't work. No other second year QBs got better without the offseason, which is proof that it doesn't matter.

Brilliant stuff...

It is almost as smart as "If we magically had all the advantages of Tebow but Tebow wasn't QB, would we be better?"...

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:30 AM
So now Tebow doesn't work hard?

Elway is wrong and Tebow doesn't work. No other second year QBs got better without the offseason, which is proof that it doesn't matter.

Brilliant stuff...

Elway isn't wrong at all: Tebow's QB mechanics and footwork are horrible and need a lot of work.

A: Did Tebow work on his QB mechanics and footwork last offseason... or

B. Did he write an autobiography and go on a book tour?

jhns
01-03-2012, 07:31 AM
Elway isn't wrong at all: Tebow's QB mechanics and footwork are horrible and need a lot of work.

Which he didn't get before because...

I could cut my head off and still come with better arguments than you...

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:36 AM
Which he didn't get before because...

I could cut my head off and still come with better arguments than you...

Know what, Jhns? When a young football player enters Pop Warner and says he wants to be a QB, generally his coaches start working on 3- 5- and 7- step drops, check-downs, and finding the open receiver. If Tebow got to the NFL without those skills, that's on every single f"ing coach he had since Pop Warner.

Requiem
01-03-2012, 07:42 AM
I just want a quarterback who can drop back in the pocket and not scramble a half second after he makes his three or five steps. What we have had to witness the past three weeks is ridiculous.

jhns
01-03-2012, 07:43 AM
Know what, Jhns? When a young football player enters Pop Warner and says he wants to be a QB, generally his coaches start working on 3- 5- and 7- step drops, check-downs, and finding the open receiver. If Tebow got to the NFL without those skills, that's on every single f"ing coach he had since Pop Warner.

How does this change the fact that he didn't have an offseason to develop these skills? You still haven't named me the second year QB that actually improved this past offseason. Amazing that it means nothing as none of them got any better. Amazing how Elway is right, says that you can only work on those skills in the offseason, and you are still arguing that the offseason doesn't matter...

Your hate has made you retarded.

jhns
01-03-2012, 07:47 AM
Elway isn't wrong at all: Tebow's QB mechanics and footwork are horrible and need a lot of work.

A: Did Tebow work on his QB mechanics and footwork last offseason... or

B. Did he write an autobiography and go on a book tour?

Oh, and the answer to this is both. Tebow hired a QB coach and even has his own facilities. What he didn't have, because of the lockout, was an NFL QB coach teaching him to do things the way Elway and Fox want.

Yes, like every other player in the league, Tebow did some other stuff in the offseason.

Again, your hatred has made you retarded.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 07:50 AM
Elway isn't wrong at all: Tebow's QB mechanics and footwork are horrible and need a lot of work.

A: Did Tebow work on his QB mechanics and footwork last offseason... or

B. Did he write an autobiography and go on a book tour?

I'd bet a month's salary he didn't actually "write" his autobiography. He probably had someone else do it for him like almost every other famous person without writing experience does. I'm sure the effect it had on his time was negligible.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:56 AM
Oh, and the answer to this is both. Tebow hired a QB coach and even has his own facilities. What he didn't have, because of the lockout, was an NFL QB coach teaching him to do things the way Elway and Fox want.

Yes, like every other player in the league, Tebow did some other stuff in the offseason.

Again, your hatred has made you retarded.

If you even buy the idea that he had time to work with a QB coach while doing a book tour.... then I'd still ask... how much good did the alleged coaching do him if he was generally viewed as "significantly regressed" on opening day of training camp? If he paid a QB coach, perhaps he should seek a refund.

broncogary
01-03-2012, 07:57 AM
I'd bet a month's salary he didn't actually "write" his autobiography. He probably had someone else do it for him like almost every other famous person without writing experience does. I'm sure the effect it had on his time was negligible.

A good point, my man, but you're pissing into the wind. Hilarious!

Cito Pelon
01-03-2012, 07:57 AM
We do need better receiving threats for sure. WR, TE, RB's that can catch out of the backfield. It's definitely not helping. But Tebow can't wait for his guys to get "wide open" to throw the ball to them. Single coverage in the NFL IS open and he needs to give them more chances.

Don't be daffy. If a defender is on every receiver's hip, as has been the case quite often the past few weeks, the receiver's are not open. Don't throw out goofy platitudes like "Single coverage in the NFL IS open." It's not.

If you want Tebow to throw to guys that are covered, don't be surprised if he gets some INT's, then what are you going to say?

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 07:58 AM
I'd bet a month's salary he didn't actually "write" his autobiography. He probably had someone else do it for him like almost every other famous person without writing experience does. I'm sure the effect it had on his time was negligible.

And I'd agree... but it takes time and many social engagements to promote and sell that book.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:00 AM
If you even buy the idea that he had time to work with a QB coach while doing a book tour.... then I'd still ask... how much good did the alleged coaching do him if he was generally viewed as "significantly regressed" on opening day of training camp? If he paid a QB coach, perhaps he should seek a refund.

You are a clown. He was working out with players here. He had Lloyd at his facility. He hired a QB coach. The first call Von received after the draft, was Tebow asking him to go work out.

Your theory is he doesn't work because he did a two week book tour.

Again, the lockout means you don't get NFL coaching. What is so hard to understand about this? You even point it out as you say the lockout doesn't matter.

Stupid... You are being dumber than MacGruder at this point. Good job!

BroncoInferno
01-03-2012, 08:00 AM
And I'd agree... but it takes time and many social engagements to promote and sell that book.

The one thing that even Tebow's biggest critics will concede is that he has a tireless work ethic.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:03 AM
The one thing that even Tebow's biggest critics will concede is that he has a tireless work ethic.

Unless you are Blue and don't have a brain.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:03 AM
You are a clown. He was working out with players here. He had Lloyd at his facility. He hired a QB coach. The first call Von received after the draft, was Tebow asking him to go work out.

Your theory is he doesn't work because he did a two week book tour.

Again, the lockout means you don't get NFL coaching. What is so hard to understand about this? You even point it out as you say the lockout doesn't matter.

Stupid...

You're hitching your wagon to Lloyd working out with Tebow in the offseason? The same Lloyd who openly supported Orton over Tebow and asked for a trade the same week Tebow was announced as starter? Too funny.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:05 AM
Unless you are Blue and don't have a brain.

Have you noticed that I haven't called you any names or personally attacked you? Or even retaliated? ???

Just curious.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:08 AM
You're hitching your wagon to Lloyd working out with Tebow in the offseason? The same Lloyd who openly supported Orton over Tebow and asked for a trade the same week Tebow was announced as starter? Too funny.

So that means him and Lloyd didn't spend time working out? I just named notable times of Tebow working out this offseason as you claimed he didn't. Working out with any reveiver is still spending offseason time working. I have no clue what point you are trying to make.

He also asked for a trade before Tebow became starter. He supports McDaniels, not Orton. He was even crying to the media a week before Orton was benched and you come with this? Too stupid...

BroncoInferno
01-03-2012, 08:09 AM
Have you noticed that I haven't called you any names or personally attacked you? Or even retaliated? ???

Just curious.

I've got serious concerns about Tebow's long-term prospects as well, but questioning his work ethic is kinda dumb. I've never heard a single person question his effort. On the contrary, that's the one thing that he is universally praised for.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:10 AM
Have you noticed that I haven't called you any names or personally attacked you? Or even retaliated? ???

Just curious.

Have you noticed how you are making **** up and acting like a jackass just because you hate a player?

Just curious?

Keep trolling and acting like a moron. I will continue to point it out.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:11 AM
I've got serious concerns about Tebow's long-term prospects as well, but questioning his work ethic is kinda dumb. I've never heard a single person question his effort. On the contrary, that's the one thing that he is universally praised for.

Was he ready to compete for the starting job come opening day of training camp 2011? All reports were an emphatic no.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2012, 08:12 AM
Was he ready to compete for the starting job come opening day of training camp 2011? All reports were an emphatic no.

That doesn't mean he didn't work hard. He didn't have access to his coaches or the playbook for months.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:13 AM
Have you noticed how you are making **** up and acting like a jackass just because you hate a player?

Just curious?

Keep trolling and acting like a moron. I will continue to point it out.

I prefer a higher level of discourse. You are dismissed.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Was he ready to compete for the starting job come opening day of training camp 2011? All reports were an emphatic no.

All reports were from dumbasses, like this front office. Do you think 1-4 is better than were we are now? What great logic!

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:15 AM
That doesn't mean he didn't work hard. He didn't have access to his coaches or the playbook for months.

It is what it is. He wasn't ready and in all honesty still isn't.

BroncoBeavis
01-03-2012, 08:16 AM
I prefer a higher level of discourse. You are dismissed.

Jeez. Guy's been shoveling this stuff daily all season. What made that the line? :)

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:17 AM
Tebow just took this team to the playoffs in his first season starting.

Anybody who's actually been watching the last several weeks, particularly with hindsight, realizes it's more about the defense than Tebow.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:17 AM
I prefer a higher level of discourse. You are dismissed.

So you continually make **** up and come with the dumbest arguments I have ever seen?

Now you are a liar and a moron.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:17 AM
Jeez. Guy's been shoveling this stuff daily all season. What made that the line? :)

He ain't banned; I'm just done talking to him.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:20 AM
Anybody who's actually been watching the last several weeks, particularly with hindsight, realizes it's more about the defense than Tebow.

Sure. The defense has been great the last few weeks! They were great before Tebow!

LOL at the stupidity. The haters are out in force now.

1-4 says the defense is great without this game plan...

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:20 AM
This team doesn't have this run game, or defense, without Tebow. This fact sure makes the thread really retarded. I can't believe most of you can even work computers.

I give Tebow some credit for the run game improvement, but not as much for the D improvement. That's a myth that's been exposed. All of our wins with Tebow as QB came against teams with bad QB play. Notice how we lost the games against good QB's, and then we even lost to Orton when Tebow was at his worst despite a great performance from the D (which had nothing to do with Tebow).

houghtam
01-03-2012, 08:21 AM
So that means him and Lloyd didn't spend time working out? I just named notable times of Tebow working out this offseason as you claimed he didn't. Working out with any reveiver is still spending offseason time working. I have no clue what point you are trying to make.

He also asked for a trade before Tebow became starter. He supports McDaniels, not Orton. He was even crying to the media a week before Orton was benched and you come with this? Too stupid...

Typical sign of a losing argument:

Dig up the goalpost and move it another 10 yards down field.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:22 AM
1-4 says the defense is great without this game plan...

LOL I'd take actually moving the ball and scoring over this "game plan" of 3 and outs that you cling to as something special.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:24 AM
I give Tebow some credit for the run game improvement, but not as much for the D improvement. That's a myth that's been exposed. All of our wins with Tebow as QB came against teams with bad QB play. Notice how we lost the games against good QB's, and then we even lost to Orton when Tebow was at his worst despite a great performance from the D (which had nothing to do with Tebow).

So you point out the fact that the defense sucks and is exposed when we turn it over and play top offenses. You say you know Tebow is what opened up the run game. We spin time of possession way into our favor, stop turning it over, and run with Tebow and the defense has amazing games, like this past one. They sucked against crap offenses before Tebow.

From this, we conclude that Tebow doesn't help the defense.

Smart...

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:27 AM
LOL I'd take actually moving the ball and scoring over this "game plan" of 3 and outs that you cling to as something special.

I never doubted that you love losing. You have continually shown that you would rather lose with Orton than win with Tebow. Next week, if Tebow does good, you will claim you aren't a hater and didn't argue this stupid ****. Typical tony...

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm genuinely curious to hear how consecutive 3 and outs and no offensive scores throughout 3 quarters of a game... "helps" the defense.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:33 AM
From this, we conclude that Tebow doesn't help the defense.

The game plan and Tebow, when successful, have helped the defense. But any team's offense, when successful, helps the defense. Unfortunately for your argument our offense has mostly been unsuccessful.

bowtown
01-03-2012, 08:33 AM
And I'd agree... but it takes time and many social engagements to promote and sell that book.

There are so many legitimate reasons to doubt Tebow and his abilities. Why do you insist on choosing the ones that hold absolutely no validity? It makes your attacks seem personal, petty, and totally lacking in credibility.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:36 AM
The game plan and Tebow, when successful, have helped the defense. But any team's offense, when successful, helps the defense. Unfortunately for your argument our offense has mostly been unsuccessful.

Wo running the ball well and controlling the time of possession didn't help the defense last game? ...

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:37 AM
There are so many legitimate reasons to doubt Tebow and his abilities. Why do you insist on choosing the ones that hold absolutely no validity? It makes your attacks seem personal, petty, and totally lacking in credibility.

Ya don't say...

Thanks, Max... the "true believers in the Cult of Tebow" won't listen though. They don't care that he's essentially a selfish ball hog of a player who deep down wants all of the glory and accolades for himself. He doesn't want to share the limelight with the rest of the team despite the "humble" image. He's all about self-promotion just like TO; he just isn't open about it. He needs his teammates to succeed though (football's a team sport) and as we've discussed, there's "something" going on in that locker room... and I suspect it's his ego.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:37 AM
I never doubted that you love losing. You have continually shown that you would rather lose with Orton than win with Tebow. Next week, if Tebow does good, you will claim you aren't a hater and didn't argue this stupid ****. Typical tony...

I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:38 AM
I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

::)

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:39 AM
I'm genuinely curious to hear how consecutive 3 and outs and no offensive scores throughout 3 quarters of a game... "helps" the defense.

You are right. The defense just suddenly got good at halftime in the first charger game. The top rushing attack in the league doesn't help at all, nor does controlling the clock...

It is amazing how little all of you understand this sport after sitting on a football message board every day...

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:39 AM
Wo running the ball well and controlling the time of possession didn't help the defense last game? ...

When are you going to figure out that scoring wins football games, not sporadically moving the ball? It's not that difficult of a concept, jhns. The offense needs to score. You seemed to understand that when Orton was the QB...

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:41 AM
I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

It was his first season starting and he took this team to the playoffs. They won 4 games all of last season and gave him a 1-4 record to start with. Tonyr's conclusion: He doesn't deserve a chance.

You are a joke. I love how you cry about being called a hater though.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:42 AM
There are so many legitimate reasons to doubt Tebow and his abilities. Why do you insist on choosing the ones that hold absolutely no validity? It makes your attacks seem personal, petty, and totally lacking in credibility.

Look. If I were an ambitious guy who had held a clipboard for a mediocre QB in 2010... and was the heir-apparent as starting QB for 2011... I do believe my priorities might have been a bit different than "an autobiography and book tour". Oh well. His results were what they were.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:46 AM
His results were what they were.

The highest winning % Broncos QB since Jake Plummer in only his second season after a lock out handicapped his development and our first playoff berth since 2005 after Orton buried us in a 1-4 hole?

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:46 AM
When are you going to figure out that scoring wins football games, not sporadically moving the ball? It's not that difficult of a concept, jhns. The offense needs to score. You seemed to understand that when Orton was the QB...

What does this have to do with my point? A defensive game plan focuses on a lot more than scoring. Just ask the head coach that didn't kick the easy FG before halftime.

You clearly don't understand football.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:47 AM
Ya don't say...

Nice to know you're still butthurt over a post made nearly 3 months ago. Too funny.

tsiguy96
01-03-2012, 08:47 AM
I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

curious how he got outplayed by kyle orton? kyle orton scored an incredible 7 pts. not really a big difference.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:47 AM
Look. If I were an ambitious guy who had held a clipboard for a mediocre QB in 2010... and was the heir-apparent as starting QB for 2011... I do believe my priorities might have been a bit different than "an autobiography and book tour". Oh well. His results were what they were.

Yeah, he took the second worst team in the league to the playoffs, after that team spotted him a 1-4 record. You are such a joke.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:49 AM
Nice to know you're still butthurt over a post made nearly 3 months ago. Too funny.

"Butthurt"? I just think it's hands down the stupidest **** I've ever read and should be shoved in your face to remind you and everyone else that you're an idiot every chance I get.

It works.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:50 AM
curious how he got outplayed by kyle orton? kyle orton scored an incredible 7 pts. not really a big difference.

Orton scored nothing. They just had one big play off of Von Miller's gap per usual.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:51 AM
::)

I know, Rev, I'm bitterly disappointed and I'm probably being overly harsh. He did some good things during our run, particularly in closing out some wins. I just don't see that sh*t working against good teams. I wanted so badly for him to come through and make some plays in a meaningful game on Sunday and he wasn't up to the task. And I'm probably putting too much on him but that comes with the position. He needed to guide the offense to more than 3 points, that's just not acceptable in what was practically a playoff game, at home, against a wounded opponent. Some of you guys are clearly a lot more patient than I am.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 08:51 AM
curious how he got outplayed by kyle orton? kyle orton scored an incredible 7 pts. not really a big difference.

7 > 3

W > L

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:55 AM
"Butthurt"? I just think it's hands down the stupidest **** I've ever read and should be shoved in your face to remind you and everyone else that you're an idiot every chance I get.

It works.

Whatever. It was an opinion... one I could easily have deleted but didn't. *shrug* Time will prove it either right or wrong just like anything else.

Oh, and internet tough guys like you told me I was wrong about McDaniels too.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:55 AM
I know, Rev, I'm bitterly disappointed and I'm probably being overly harsh. He did some good things during our run, particularly in closing out some wins. I just don't see that sh*t working against good teams. I wanted so badly for him to come through and make some plays in a meaningful game on Sunday and he wasn't up to the task. And I'm probably putting too much on him but that comes with the position. He needed to guide the offense to more than 3 points, that's just not acceptable in what was practically a playoff game, at home, against a wounded opponent. Some of you guys are clearly a lot more patient than I am.

Oh stop it. You'll be one of the first to throw the flag of not giving up on players too early. Why are you doing it here? He's a guy with an insanely special skill set, every intangible and measurable you could ask for and an unrivaled character and work ethic.

You're not "probably" being over harsh. You're being stupid. We're in the post-season after a 1-4 start... and it sure as **** isn't because of stellar offensive coaching lol.

We can beat Pitt. Cincy will beat Houston. That puts us in Baltimore who's dropped several games to much worse teams. We can end up in the AFCCG against a Pats team we were working before misfortune struck just as well as we can be one and done.

Stop whining and be thankful someone is fighting for a win even when you've given up.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:55 AM
Whatever. It was an opinion... one I could easily have deleted but didn't. *shrug* Time will prove it either right or wrong just like anything else.

It's cool. I have screen shots.

jhns
01-03-2012, 08:57 AM
I know, Rev, I'm bitterly disappointed and I'm probably being overly harsh. He did some good things during our run, particularly in closing out some wins. I just don't see that sh*t working against good teams. I wanted so badly for him to come through and make some plays in a meaningful game on Sunday and he wasn't up to the task. And I'm probably putting too much on him but that comes with the position. He needed to guide the offense to more than 3 points, that's just not acceptable in what was practically a playoff game, at home, against a wounded opponent. Some of you guys are clearly a lot more patient than I am.

He has less than one season starting, is playing on one of the worst teams in the league, and didn't get an offseason after his rookie year. He has the second worst team in the league in the playoffs after they spotted him a 1-4 record. You come with this garbage as you continually cry that you aren't just a hater...

This thread shows exactly who the haters are and just how ridiculous every one of them are. You are all far worse than the MacGruders and Broncbows, and about half as smart. Just sad.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 08:58 AM
It's cool. I have screen shots.

I don't care. I'm not afraid to express "unpopular" opinions. Some of 'em are right and some aren't. Oh well.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 08:59 AM
I don't care. I'm not afraid to express "unpopular" opinions. Some of 'em are right and some aren't. Oh well.

Those are called "other peoples opinions".

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:01 AM
Whatever. It was an opinion... one I could easily have deleted but didn't. *shrug* Time will prove it either right or wrong just like anything else.

Oh, and internet tough guys like you told me I was wrong about McDaniels too.

An extremely retarded opinion that is based on nothing. It says a lot about you when you would attack a guy like Tebow for his character.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:03 AM
Oh stop it. You'll be one of the first to throw the flag of not giving up on players too early. Why are you doing it here? He's a guy with an insanely special skill set, every intangible and measurable you could ask for and an unrivaled character and work ethic.

You're not "probably" being over harsh. You're being stupid. We're in the post-season after a 1-4 start... and it sure as **** isn't because of stellar offensive coaching lol.

We can beat Pitt. Cincy will beat Houston. That puts us in Baltimore who's dropped several games to much worse teams. We can end up in the AFCCG against a Pats team we were working before misfortune struck just as well as we can be one and done.

Stop whining and be thankful someone is fighting for a win even when you've given up.

Maybe you're right, but I have a feeling that if the last 3 weeks weren't already a wake up call (and they should have been but for some reason some of you are seeing what's right there in front of you) this upcoming game is going to be.

Agree with the "special skill set" but unless and until that skill set includes a massively improved ability to throw the football I don't think that skill set is that of an NFL QB.

And I don't see what I'm doing as "whining". I'm just pointing out that my concerns about Tebow are winning out over my hopes.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:04 AM
Those are called "other peoples opinions".

Other people's besides yours?

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:07 AM
Other people's besides yours?

Rarely.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Maybe you're right, but I have a feeling that if the last 3 weeks weren't already a wake up call (and they should have been but for some reason some of you are seeing what's right there in front of you) this upcoming game is going to be.

Agree with the "special skill set" but unless and until that skill set includes a massively improved ability to throw the football I don't think that skill set is that of an NFL QB.

And I don't see what I'm doing as "whining". I'm just pointing out that my concerns about Tebow are winning out over my hopes.

How so?

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Maybe you're right, but I have a feeling that if the last 3 weeks weren't already a wake up call (and they should have been but for some reason some of you are seeing what's right there in front of you) this upcoming game is going to be.

Agree with the "special skill set" but unless and until that skill set includes a massively improved ability to throw the football I don't think that skill set is that of an NFL QB.

And I don't see what I'm doing as "whining". I'm just pointing out that my concerns about Tebow are winning out over my hopes.

So you think Tebow should win the SB or he is a bust? A few bad games in his first season, with a team that lacks talent everywhere, shows that he will never be good and shouldn't get another year? That is the dumbest **** I have heard in a while. That is impresive considering blue is typing in this thread.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Rarely.

Oh god... don't do that to me. My sides are hurting from laughing.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:09 AM
I don't care. I'm not afraid to express "unpopular" opinions. Some of 'em are right and some aren't. Oh well.

I must admit that after the reality of last 3 weeks I'm a little shocked that such opinions are still so controversial. Some people are completely irrational on this topic, particularly when it comes to those like you who have been vocal skeptics from the start.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:11 AM
I must admit that after the reality of last 3 weeks I'm a little shocked that such opinions are still so controversial. Some people are completely irrational on this topic, particularly when it comes to those like you who have been vocal skeptics from the start.

You don't get how calling Tebow a bad character guy is controversial as you cry about how horrible he is for leading a horrible team to the playoffs?

The thread is actually getting dumber as we go...

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:12 AM
So you think Tebow should win the SB or he is a bust? A few bad games in his first season, with a team that lacks talent everywhere, shows that he will never be good and shouldn't get another year? That is the dumbest **** I have heard in a while. That is impresive considering blue is typing in this thread.

No, but I do think he should be able to complete forward passes to wide open teammates and guide his offense to more than 3 points against the ****ing KC Chiefs. And you say "a few bad games" but the reality is this is far from his only bad play this season. The difference is he actually made a few more positive plays in the wins which for some reason erased his limitations and overall mediocre-at-best play from your memory.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:12 AM
Oh god... don't do that to me. My sides are hurting from laughing.

Are you kidding or serious? Because you might be even dumber than I thought

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:12 AM
You don't get how calling Tebow a bad character guy is controversial as you cry about how horrible he is for leading a horrible team to the playoffs?

The thread is actually getting dumber as we go...

I don't call him a "bad character guy" and disagree to the extent anyone is doing that.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:13 AM
I must admit that after the reality of last 3 weeks I'm a little shocked that such opinions are still so controversial. Some people are completely irrational on this topic, particularly when it comes to those like you who have been vocal skeptics from the start.

The flak I've taken over Tebow is nothing compared to what I took over McDaniels. And unfortunately I ended up being 100% right about him. Got zero apologies or acknowledgements ... and didn't expect any. ;D

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:14 AM
I don't call him a "bad character guy" and disagree to the extent anyone is doing that.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/BlueFlame3.png

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:14 AM
I don't call him a "bad character guy" and disagree to the extent anyone is doing that.

You just said you don't get how that is a controversial opinion. I said wtf, you are retarded. You come back with this post.

So, again. Wtf? You are retarded.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:15 AM
Are you kidding or serious? Because you might be even dumber than I thought

You're like everyone else expressing opinions here. Some are right and some are wrong.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:15 AM
The flak I've taken over Tebow is nothing compared to what I took over McDaniels. And unfortunately I ended up being 100% right about him. Got zero apologies or acknowledgements ... and didn't expect any. ;D

What's really interesting is how comparable the 6-0 under McD is to the 6 game winning streak with Tebow starting. Both were fools gold. Fool me once...

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:15 AM
The flak I've taken over Tebow is nothing compared to what I took over McDaniels. And unfortunately I ended up being 100% right about him. Got zero apologies or acknowledgements ... and didn't expect any. ;D

That's because you hated him solely for being a Patriot on not based on the sheer lack of merits like smarter people. You're seriously a goddamn idiot. Everyone knows it and points out how absurd you are to you, but you keep on pluggin. Thanks for the amusement.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:17 AM
You just said you don't get how that is a controversial opinion. I said wtf, you are retarded. You come back with this post.

So, again. Wtf? You are retarded.

I admittedly wasn't fully reading Blue's posts. I just saw you and Rev going at it with her so I assumed y'all were talking football. My bad.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:17 AM
ZOMG!!! 3 months ago someone doubted Teh Teboz.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:17 AM
No, but I do think he should be able to complete forward passes to wide open teammates and guide his offense to more than 3 points against the ****ing KC Chiefs. And you say "a few bad games" but the reality is this is far from his only bad play this season. The difference is he actually made a few more positive plays in the wins which for some reason erased his limitations and overall mediocre-at-best play from your memory.

That horrible play took the se ond worst team in the league from 1-4 to the playoffs in his first year starting. You clearly don't know even close to what you think you know about this sport. He has started less than one season so far. Calm down and stop being such a douche.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:19 AM
ZOMG!!! 3 months ago someone doubted Teh Teboz.

Doubted? This is why you're an idiot. You can't even recognize your own statements.

You compared him to TO...

Let me say that again... you compared Tim Tebow to Terrell Owens.

You also called him a glory hound, despite EVERY presser him deflecting any credit to his WRs and OL (even though theyre both dog****) and defense.

It's literally the most laughable thing I've ever read.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:19 AM
That's because you hated him solely for being a Patriot on not based on the sheer lack of merits like smarter people. You're seriously a goddamn idiot. Everyone knows it and points out how absurd you are to you, but you keep on pluggin. Thanks for the amusement.

There were myriad reasons why I didn't like McDaniels... and unfortunately they were ALL right. Cheating and all.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:20 AM
I admittedly wasn't fully reading Blue's posts. I just saw you and Rev going at it with her so I assumed y'all were talking football. My bad.

That is how haters and morons act. Good job!

Agamemnon
01-03-2012, 09:22 AM
Doubted? This is why you're an idiot. You can't even recognize your own statements.

You compared him to TO...

Let me say that again... you compared Tim Tebow to Terrell Owens.

You also called him a glory hound, despite EVERY presser him deflecting any credit to his WRs and OL (even though theyre both dog****) and defense.

It's literally the most laughable thing I've ever read.

I was so disappointed the day I tried to put Blueflame on ignore and couldn't. Such a terrible poster, and she's a mod. Ridiculous...

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:22 AM
Doubted? This is why you're an idiot. You can't even recognize your own statements.

You compared him to TO...

Let me say that again... you compared Tim Tebow to Terrell Owens.

You also called him a glory hound, despite EVERY presser him deflecting any credit to his WRs and OL (even though theyre both dog****) and defense.

It's literally the most laughable thing I've ever read.

I own my statements and back down from none of them. You disagree and that's ok.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:22 AM
That horrible play took the se ond worst team in the league from 1-4 to the playoffs in his first year starting. You clearly don't know even close to what you think you know about this sport. He has started less than one season so far. Calm down and stop being such a douche.

So then what happened the last 3 weeks? And I'm clearly more calm, and able to understand what I'm watching, than you. I correctly point out how awful our QB played on Sunday but you're completely blind to the fact.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 09:23 AM
Orton scored nothing. They just had one big play off of Von Miller's gap per usual.

Using that logic, Tebow scored nothing since the only 3 was off of a muffed punt.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:24 AM
I own my statements and back down from none of them. You disagree and that's ok.

This isn't a matter of agree/disagree. This is a matter of clear right/wrong.

This isn't opinion. It's fact. You shying away from that is a clear indicator of how personally biased and absurd of a person you are.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:24 AM
Using that logic, Tebow scored nothing since the only 3 was off of a muffed punt.

Duh.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:24 AM
There were myriad reasons why I didn't like McDaniels... and unfortunately they were ALL right. Cheating and all.

You keep claiming this like it means something. I was right, from the beginning, about McDaniels. I was actually right about the moves he was making and why they hurt the team though. It wasn't just hatred of where he came from. I was right that Tebow made this team far better than Orton. I guarantee you can't find many issues where I was wrong.

Your credibility is not even close to being anything special. Anyone with a brain could see how horrible McDaniels was.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:26 AM
This isn't a matter of agree/disagree. This is a matter of clear right/wrong.

This isn't opinion. It's fact. You shying away from that is a clear indicator of how personally biased and absurd of a person you are.

I "shy away" from NOTHING.

Was I right about McDaniels?

Don't even bother. The answer is a resounding: yes, I was.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:26 AM
So then what happened the last 3 weeks? And I'm clearly more calm, and able to understand what I'm watching, than you. I correctly point out how awful our QB played on Sunday but you're completely blind to the fact.

Again showing that you can't keep up with the conversation. Like Spider, you are clearly too stupid for this medium.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 09:28 AM
No, but I do think he should be able to complete forward passes to wide open teammates and guide his offense to more than 3 points against the ****ing KC Chiefs.

And, to be fair, he didn't even "guide" them to that, considering that "scoring drive" consisted of a whole zero yards of offense.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:28 AM
I "shy away" from NOTHING.

Was I right about McDaniels?

Don't even bother. The answer is a resounding: yes, I was.

lol no. I was right about McDaniels. I was pointing out the moves he was making while you were just throwing dozen page fits because of his Patriot heritage and nothing else.

You're a joke, and EVERYONE knows it. Go back to the OT forums and be a good little name-changer girl.

That's where you belong.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2012, 09:29 AM
I own my statements and back down from none of them. You disagree and that's ok.

Comparing Tebow to TO is akin to saying that Hitler was a great humanitarian. Sure, you're "entitled" to that opinion, and everyone else is entitled to the conclusion that that opinion is stupid and unjustifiable. Like I said earlier, there are plenty of valid concerns regarding Tebow as a QB, but attacking him for his work ethic and character is not a valid perspective.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:30 AM
Again showing that you can't keep up with the conversation. Like Spider, you are clearly too stupid for this medium.

I see you've avoided answering the question again. Because you cannot defend yourself from a position of weakness.

Again, what happened the last 3 weeks? And how do you defend a QB who can't score against KC, turns the ball over at critical moments, and struggles to complete forward passes to wide open receivers? Where did the magic go, jhns? Calling me a hater for stating the ugly truth isn't going to make it go away.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:31 AM
lol no. I was right about McDaniels. I was pointing out the moves he was making while you were throwing a fit of his Patriot heritage and nothing else.

You're a joke, and EVERYONE knows it. Go back to the OT forums and be a good little name-changer girl.

That's where you belong.

I'm going nowhere and you'll deal with that or not. :pfbbt:

KO5K
01-03-2012, 09:32 AM
Maybe you're right, but I have a feeling that if the last 3 weeks weren't already a wake up call (and they should have been but for some reason some of you are seeing what's right there in front of you) this upcoming game is going to be.

I think the first thing is, it's really only been two bad weeks. Tebow had a decent game against the Patriots and I think made some of the nicest throws of his career. Of course, his fumble was an absolute killer but that's not something that makes you question his viability as a long term starter.

So two really bad weeks, one against the Chiefs whose defense is pretty underrated. I think for most 'Tebow fans' there needs to be more than two really bad games for us to start questioning the guy, especially when there's plenty of blame to go around (Mostly on Mike ****ing McCoy). After all, everyone has a shocker once in a while from Flacco to even Rodgers. Everyone said Tebow was a three year project in the first place so I'm not getting to disheartened about a couple of shockers.

If it continues then yes, I and I would imagine other Bronco/Tebow fans will look to move on, but not just yet.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:33 AM
I'm going nowhere and you'll deal with that or not. :pfbbt:

And honestly, I hope not. It gives me many more opportunities for this

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/BlueFlame3.png

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:34 AM
I see you've avoided answering the question again. Because you cannot defend yourself from a position of weakness.

Again, what happened the last 3 weeks? And how do you defend a QB who can't score against KC, turns the ball over at critical moments, and struggles to complete forward passes to wide open receivers? Where did the magic go, jhns? Calling me a hater for stating the ugly truth isn't going to make it go away.

He is a young QB that had some bad games as he led a horrible team to the playoffs. I have said this 15 times and it will continue to be my answer.

You are a hater. It takes a hater to claim a player is a bust after a successful first season starting. It takes an idiot to call a player a bust after a first successful season of starting. These are facts.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:34 AM
Comparing Tebow to TO is akin to saying that Hitler was a great humanitarian. Sure, you're "entitled" to that opinion, and everyone else is entitled to the conclusion that that opinion is stupid and unjustifiable. Like I said earlier, there are plenty of valid concerns regarding Tebow as a QB, but attacking him for his work ethic and character is not a valid perspective.

I have my reasons for believing that perhaps the "image" isn't exactly the reality re: Tebow. I mean, anytime a 23 year old who isn't even yet "dry behind the ears" is writing an autobiography and going on a book tour, it's possible that there's some ego involved.

TDmvp
01-03-2012, 09:34 AM
ZOMG!!! 3 months ago someone doubted Teh Teboz.


:oyvey: And talking to Maximus like he's human...

Blue you have always been one of my favorite people here at the mane and have went to bat for me before so I say this as respectful as possible , hell we are FB friends .But that take on Tebow comes off bitter or as if you have never even seen Tim Tebow on cam before.

I gave two turds about Tim Tebow before we drafted him but even as someone who has only been exposed to him for 2 or so years your description sounds like you was talking about someone totally different ...

I have no idea where one would get that take on Tebow besides having something against the guy off the field or just taking a blind stab about someone so if ever proven right they can crow about it.


But as a on again off again atheist with no stock in Tebow besides Broncos stock how someone could think the kid is nothing but a model human being is beyond me.


Sure you wasn't getting Lloyd and Tebow confused ? Tim is the tall white kid who hugs everyone and talks about how everyone made him look better than he is after games :) ...

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:36 AM
And honestly, I hope not. It gives me many more opportunities for this


Who cares? I certainly don't. I said it and I own it. Time will show it to be right or wrong.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the rational response KO5K. Totally respect your position. Perhaps jhns can learn a thing or two from you (but I won't hold my breath).

I was in a similar mindset a couple of weeks ago. Tebow slowly won me over. But I now have strong doubts that the passing ability is ever going to get close to what's necessary to play the position effectively at the NFL level.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:38 AM
It takes a hater to claim a player is a bust after a successful first season starting. It takes an idiot to call a player a bust after a first successful season of starting. These are facts.

LOL Show me where I've stated he's a bust?

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:41 AM
LOL Show me where I've stated he's a bust?

You already backing down? Typical tony.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:41 AM
Who cares? I certainly don't. I said it and I own it. Time will show it to be right or wrong.

....that's the thing. Time has shown it COMPLETELY wrong you doofus.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:41 AM
:oyvey: And talking to Maximus like he's human...

Blue you have always been one of my favorite people here at the mane and have went to bat for me before so I say this as respectful as possible , hell we are FB friends .But that take on Tebow comes off bitter or as if you have never even seen Tim Tebow on cam before.

I gave two turds about Tim Tebow before we drafted him but even as someone who has only been exposed to him for 2 or so years your description sounds like you was talking about someone totally different ...

I have no idea where one would get that take on Tebow besides having something against the guy off the field or just taking a blind stab about someone so if ever proven right they can crow about it.


But as a on again off again atheist with no stock in Tebow besides Broncos stock how someone someone could think the kid is nothing but a model human being is beyond me.


Sure you wasn't getting Lloyd and Tebow confused ? Tim is the tall white kid who hugs everyone and talks about how everyone made him look better than he is after games :) ...

I met Max on the Mane 10 years ago... and we've had many a spirited debate over the years... but yes, he is human and a good friend of mine.

KO5K
01-03-2012, 09:41 AM
I was in a similar mindset a couple of weeks ago. Tebow slowly won me over. But I now have strong doubts that the passing ability is ever going to get close to what's necessary to play the position effectively at the NFL level.

Yeah, I'm edging that way a little bit.

If McCoy was to call a bunch of RB screens, bubble screens, quick slants and some bootleg PA and Tebow still couldn't do ****, then I'd be straight of the wagon. But until that game, I'm still thinking Tebow could be special in the right situation.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:42 AM
LOL Show me where I've stated he's a bust?

The first sentence here pretty much says that:

I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:43 AM
I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

Whats that tonyr? You have no spine? You have no brain?

We knew this!

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:43 AM
You already backing down? Typical tony.

What am I backing down from? I've never called Tim Tebow a "bust". Ever. When you find where I did it please post it for all to see. Until then please make up some more lame excuses for Tebow getting beat by Kyle Orton on Sunday and post them so we can continue to laugh at your foolishness.

TDmvp
01-03-2012, 09:43 AM
Thanks for the rational response KO5K. Totally respect your position. Perhaps jhns can learn a thing or two from you (but I won't hold my breath).

I was in a similar mindset a couple of weeks ago. Tebow slowly won me over. But I now have strong doubts that the passing ability is ever going to get close to what's necessary to play the position effectively at the NFL level.



I'm to the point where I don't so much have doubts about his arm as much as if he will ever get/see the timing of the NFL passing game... I mean hell he misses stuff my GF sees that is wide about 2 secs after the snap sometimes and she just learned it from playing madden LOL ... Hell maybe Tim needs to play some madden LOL....


I just worry about him getting that timing passes tho and throws that come out at the back of his drop coming from under center. He seems to question if he should throw it every time.

Love the guy tho and hope he can fix the issues , but there is some issues.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2012, 09:44 AM
I have my reasons for believing that perhaps the "image" isn't exactly the reality re: Tebow. I mean, anytime a 23 year old who isn't even yet "dry behind the ears" is writing an autobiography and going on a book tour, it's possible that there's some ego involved.

And they are?

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:44 AM
What am I backing down from? I've never called Tim Tebow a "bust". Ever. When you find where I did it please post it for all to see. Until then please make up some more lame excuses for Tebow getting beat by Kyle Orton on Sunday and post them so we can continue to laugh at your foolishness.

I just posted it, clown...

You can't even stick with an argument for a few hours because your arguments are that retarded.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:47 AM
I'm to the point where I don't so much have doubts about his arm as much as if he will ever get/see the timing of the NFL passing game... I mean hell he misses stuff my GF sees that is wide about 2 secs after the snap sometimes and she just learned it from playing madden LOL ... Hell maybe Tim needs to play some madden LOL....


I just worry about him getting that timing passes tho and throws that come out at the back of his drop coming from under center. He seems to question if he should throw it every time.

Love the guy tho and hope he can fix the issues , but there is some issues.

Everything you just questioned are things that Elway said they can't work on now and that they will be working on in the offseason. To.y doesn't think he deserves an offseason though, so how would we know if Tebow can improve on these things if we don't give him a chance?

TDmvp
01-03-2012, 09:48 AM
Everything you just questioned are things that Elway said they can't work on now and that they will be working on in the offseason. To.y doesn't think he deserves an offseason though, so how would we know if Tebow can improve on these things if we don't give him a chance?

He should be give said chance.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:49 AM
....that's the thing. Time has shown it COMPLETELY wrong you doofus.

Yeah and seven weeks into the 2009 season I was told the same thing about McDaniels. Again :pfbbt:

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:51 AM
And they are?

I'll be glad to explain via PM.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:52 AM
I just posted it, clown...

You can't even stick with an argument for a few hours because your arguments are that retarded.

LOL Has he revolutionized the postion, jhns? Where's the magic?

My argument hasn't changed, dippydoo. Tebow was awful two weeks ago, more awful on Sunday, and isn't/wasn't as good as many thought he was all along. He has terrible pocket awareness, has trouble finding open receivers, and has trouble getting the ball to them when he does find them. He's a great kid, a great athlete, and was one of the best college football players ever. He's dynamic in the running game and he's a warrior. But I don't think he's an NFL QB at this point and chances are never will be. You're entitled to think otherwise. Until then he's only as good as his last performance which you still haven't admitted was completely awful and completely unacceptable. Meanwhile you're still buying in to the "magic" and the hype generated by some lucky wins (which Tebow deserves some credit for) against some bad opponents. I have a strong hunch the last few weeks are closer to reality than 7 of the prior 8.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:54 AM
LOL Has he revolutionized the postion, jhns? Where's the magic?

My argument hasn't changed, dippydoo. Tebow was awful two weeks ago, more awful on Sunday, and isn't/wasn't as good as many thought he was all along. He has terrible pocket awareness, has trouble finding open receivers, and has trouble getting the ball to them when he does find them. He's a great kid, a great athlete, and was one of the best college football players ever. He's dynamic in the running game and he's a warrior. But I don't think he's an NFL QB at this point and chances are never will be. You're entitled to think otherwise. Until then he's only as good as his last performance which you still haven't admitted was completely awful and completely unacceptable. Meanwhile you're still buying in to the "magic" and the hype generated by some lucky wins (which Tebow deserves some credit for) against some bad opponents. I have a strong hunch the last few weeks are closer to reality than 7 of the prior 8.

Yeah, I use magic in my arguments. You are a clown that can't even keep up with his own arguments as you claim I made some random made up argument. Too stupid for this medium...

You want to know where the magic is? How about having the second worst team in the league in the playoffs, even though they spotted him a 1-4 start. Just terrible!

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:54 AM
I'll be glad to explain via PM.

Of course.

Deflect away because you have none.

And what difference does the cropping job make? It's a screen cap to show how much of a brain dead idiot you are... and it works in spades.

BroncoBeavis
01-03-2012, 09:57 AM
What am I backing down from? I've never called Tim Tebow a "bust". Ever..

Gonna have to side with Jhns on this.

Essentially you're saying "I never called Tebow a bust. I just said he's a 2nd year 1st round draft choice who shouldn't be playing anymore"

Semantics is all.

TDmvp
01-03-2012, 09:58 AM
I met Max on the Mane 10 years ago... and we've had many a spirited debate over the years... but yes, he is human and a good friend of mine.



... Nm

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 09:58 AM
Of course.

Deflect away because you have none.

And what difference does the cropping job make? It's a screen cap to show how much of a brain dead idiot you are... and it works in spades.

How is there any "deflection" in stating repeatedly that I "own" the post I made 3+ months ago? I don't back down from a single word in that post. Or from you.

BroncoInferno
01-03-2012, 09:59 AM
I'll be glad to explain via PM.

Will be interested to hear.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:59 AM
...To.y doesn't think he deserves an offseason though, so how would we know if Tebow can improve on these things if we don't give him a chance?

Assuming "To.y" is me I never said this, either, so you're making stuff up again. I think he should have a chance to compete against whomever we bring in next year.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 10:00 AM
How is there any "deflection" in stating repeatedly that I "own" the post I made 3+ months ago? I don't back down from a single word in that post. Or from you.

He asked you for any examples and you say "That's private".

Of course it is. Because it's INSANELY wrong and you know it.

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:01 AM
Assuming "To.y" is me I never said this, either, so you're making stuff up again.

Umm, yes you did. You said exactly that. Your attempted spins are terrible.

Agamemnon
01-03-2012, 10:01 AM
How is there any "deflection" in stating repeatedly that I "own" the post I made 3+ months ago? I don't back down from a single word in that post. Or from you.

And that is why you are such a terrible poster. To post that Tebow is on par with TO on a rival board is bad enough, but to then stand behind it here without a single shred of evidence to back it up? Yeah you are a joke...

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 10:02 AM
He asked you for any examples and you say "That's private".

Of course it is. Because it's INSANELY wrong and you know it.

What? One guy asked for an explanation and I said I'd provide it. But not to you 'cause you didn't ask.... at least not nicely like he did.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 10:03 AM
Gonna have to side with Jhns on this.

Essentially you're saying "I never called Tebow a bust. I just said he's a 2nd year 1st round draft choice who shouldn't be playing anymore"

Semantics is all.

I can see where you're coming from but calling him a "bust" applies more finality than I'm doing. "Bust" also implies there were high expectations to begin with. If you recall the "experts" almost unanimously didn't think he was an NFL QB. I've been a skeptic from the beginning although admittedly started to buy in during the winning streak which I now think was fools gold.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 10:05 AM
Umm, yes you did. You said exactly that. Your attempted spins are terrible.

Show us. I never said "cut him" or "trade him" or that he shouldn't be in the mix next year. Anywhere. Ever. If he beats out whomever we bring in then I guess he's the started next year. Very possible scenario.

TDmvp
01-03-2012, 10:06 AM
Ok ... I'm going alone (euchre term).

Could this be a pro life / pro choice type thing ?

If so that's ok cause I don't have a dog in that fight... I have a opinion but it's just one and not that important and I don't have a vagina and would never tell a woman what to do with hers.

I can see how some people would have issues with Tim , I just don't personally.

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:06 AM
I can see where you're coming from but calling him a "bust" applies more finality than I'm doing. "Bust" also implies there were high expectations to begin with. If you recall the "experts" almost unanimously didn't think he was an NFL QB. I've been a skeptic from the beginning although admittedly started to buy in during the winning streak which I now think was fools gold.

You are done with him and he will never make it. You then claim that isn't calling him a bust as you try to spin some more and say that bust means something compketely different.

Typical tony. No spine. Retarded takes.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 10:06 AM
What? One guy asked for an explanation and I said I'd provide it. But not to you 'cause you didn't ask.... at least not nicely like he did.

Why would anyone ask nicely for a dog****, completely biased opinion?

Makes no sense. Should I ask a homeless person for advice on differential equations?

That'd be just as stupid.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 10:07 AM
Show us. I never said "cut him" or "trade him" or that he shouldn't be in the mix next year. Anywhere. Ever. If he beats out whomever we bring in then I guess he's the started next year. Very possible scenario.

So what does "I'm done with the Tebow experiment" mean then?

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:08 AM
Show us. I never said "cut him" or "trade him" or that he shouldn't be in the mix next year. Anywhere. Ever. If he beats out whomever we bring in then I guess he's the started next year. Very possible scenario.

"I'm done with the Tebow experiment."

Now means

"I would like to see Tebow back after an offseason of work."

Again, typical tony.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 10:11 AM
Why would anyone ask nicely for a dog****, completely biased opinion?

Makes no sense. Should I ask a homeless person for advice on differential equations?

That'd be just as stupid.

Then you don't want to hear it anyway so STFU.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 10:12 AM
Ok ... I'm going alone (euchre term).

Could this be a pro life / pro choice type thing ?

If so that's ok cause I don't have a dog in that fight...

I'm sure Vick can loan you one.