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TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:16 AM
So what does "I'm done with the Tebow experiment" mean then?

It means I don't think it's going to work and I hope they bring somebody in the compete with him this offseason. Simple as that.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:20 AM
It means I don't think it's going to work and I hope they bring somebody in the compete with him this offseason. Simple as that.

Doesn't sound like you're done with him at all then...

"I'm done with him! ...but I look forward to seeing him in the playoffs and competing for the job next year!"

Be quiet, Tony.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:24 AM
Doesn't sound like you're done with him at all then...

"I'm done with him! ...but I look forward to seeing him in the playoffs and competing for the job next year!"

Be quiet, Tony.

If you want to know what I meant then simply refer to my previous post instead of your attempted translation.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:26 AM
If you want to know what I meant then simply refer to my previous post instead of your attempted translation.

I'm done with Tebow doesn't mean I'm done with Tebow. Stop putting words in my mouth!

Just too stupid for this medium...

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 09:26 AM
If you want to know what I meant then simply refer to my previous post instead of your attempted translation.

You've already said you know you're being overly harsh. Relax. Enjoy the playoffs and he'll improve after an off-season of working with Elway and a full set of camps with coaches.

Cito Pelon
01-03-2012, 09:33 AM
I know, Rev, I'm bitterly disappointed and I'm probably being overly harsh. He did some good things during our run, particularly in closing out some wins. I just don't see that sh*t working against good teams. I wanted so badly for him to come through and make some plays in a meaningful game on Sunday and he wasn't up to the task. And I'm probably putting too much on him but that comes with the position. He needed to guide the offense to more than 3 points, that's just not acceptable in what was practically a playoff game, at home, against a wounded opponent. Some of you guys are clearly a lot more patient than I am.

Clearly. :) Can't blame ppl for being disapointed, but there wasn't too many passing plays to be made in that game. I've heard people that were at the game say just what Simms was saying - the receivers weren't getting open at all. Now, on the few occasions they were open it was after the pocket was breaking down.

But, Tebow DID blow the two scoring opportunities with the fumble and the sack. IMO the coaching staff blew a scoring opportunity before the half with poor clock management and not taking the chance on the long FG.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 09:34 AM
You've already said you know you're being overly harsh. Relax. Enjoy the playoffs and he'll improve after an off-season of working with Elway and a full set of camps with coaches.

I have mad respect for your understanding of the game but must admit that I'm baffled trying to understand what you (and others) have seen that gives you any confidence that his passing ability is ever going to get anywhere close to where it needs to get. The novelty act coupled with his strong/unique run/option ability has made it possible for him to fake his way though being an NFL QB the past several weeks on a mediocre-at-best team. He deserves full credit for that. I just think all aspects of his passing ability are so poor that he'll never get there. Pocket awareness, footwork, throwing motion, accuracy... he needs to make a quantum leap on every one and then some. Possible? I suppose. Probable? Unlikely.

jhns
01-03-2012, 09:39 AM
I have mad respect for your understanding of the game but must admit that I'm baffled trying to understand what you (and others) have seen that gives you any confidence that his passing ability is ever going to get anywhere close to where it needs to get. The novelty act coupled with his strong/unique run/option ability has made it possible for him to fake his way though being an NFL QB the past several weeks on a mediocre-at-best team. He deserves full credit for that. I just think all aspects of his passing ability are so poor that he'll never get there. Pocket awareness, footwork, throwing motion, accuracy... he needs to make a quantum leap on every one and then some. Possible? I suppose. Probable? Unlikely.

You clearly have never watched a young QB before. Everyone calling Tebow a bust, will hate any other young QB that comes here. Not many have performed better in their first season starting. So many of you are just being ridiculous at this point.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 10:14 AM
If you want to know what I meant then simply refer to my previous post instead of your attempted translation.

Or you could PM him what you meant, so nobody else has a chance to see how stupid it sounds.

But you'll have to ask nicely, jhns.

AND HE STANDS BY HIS OPINION.

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 10:19 AM
At this point, there has to be a Tebow contingency plan for the 2012 season. It might be taking a guy like Ryan Lindley in the 2nd or 3rd round, it might be signing a veteran stopgap that can start in a pinch to compete with him, or it might be both. But the FO must address the QB position in the off season with someone that can challenge Tebow as the starter. If Timmy doesn't like that, than he has to prove everybody wrong by elevating his play.

ColoradoDarin
01-03-2012, 10:20 AM
If you even buy the idea that he had time to work with a QB coach while doing a book tour.... then I'd still ask... how much good did the alleged coaching do him if he was generally viewed as "significantly regressed" on opening day of training camp? If he paid a QB coach, perhaps he should seek a refund.

Several times in this thread you have talked about this "book tour" like it was some 50 city, all around the country affair. Let's take a look at it:

Monday, May 30, 2011 at 2:00pm
Books-A-Million, Jacksonville Beach, Florida

Sunday, June 5, 2011 at 4:00pm
Samís Club, Colorado Springs, CO

Thursday, June 9, 2011 at 6:00pm
Walmart, Gainesville, FL

Saturday, June 11, 2011 at 2:00pm
Barnes & Noble, Orlando, FL

3 within 2 hours of where he was working here in Jax in the off season and the other in the Springs... wow, 4 whole dates! How did he ever fit it all in?

TonyR
01-03-2012, 10:24 AM
At this point, there has to be a Tebow contingency plan for the 2012 season. It might be taking a guy like Ryan Lindley in the 2nd or 3rd round, it might be signing a veteran stopgap that can start in a pinch to compete with him, or it might be both. But the FO must address the QB position in the off season with someone that can challenge Tebow as the starter. If Timmy doesn't like that, than he has to prove everybody wrong by elevating his play.

Yup. I agree, and I bet at least 2/3 of EFX does, too.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 10:26 AM
Several times in this thread you have talked about this "book tour" like it was some 50 city, all around the country affair. Let's take a look at it:



3 within 2 hours of where he was working here in Jax in the off season and the other in the Springs... wow, 4 whole dates! How did he ever fit it all in?

SHE STANDS BY HER OPINION.

Right or wrong.

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm not giving up on the kid, but if we're five or six games into the 2012 season, and he still can't make a simple hot read or shred an opponent with a quick slant against man coverage and 8/9 guys in the box, it's just not going to end well. Regardless of his competitive fire or ability to make plays with his feet. I mean there was one point where KC had 8 guys in the box, no safety help playing the run on 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 8. Bottom line is that's a guaranteed 20, 30 40 yard gain with even a mid-tier NFL QB.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 10:28 AM
At this point, there has to be a Tebow contingency plan for the 2012 season. It might be taking a guy like Ryan Lindley in the 2nd or 3rd round, it might be signing a veteran stopgap that can start in a pinch to compete with him, or it might be both. But the FO must address the QB position in the off season with someone that can challenge Tebow as the starter. If Timmy doesn't like that, than he has to prove everybody wrong by elevating his play.

Thing is, I don't think you'll find a single "Tebowner" (outside of idiots like Macgruder, Broncbow and the usuals) that doesn't think we should bring in a QB in some capacity.

It's called being rational.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 10:35 AM
I'm not giving up on the kid, but if we're five or six games into the 2012 season, and he still can't make a simple hot read or shred an opponent with a quick slant against man coverage and 8/9 guys in the box, it's just not going to end well. Regardless of his competitive fire or ability to make plays with his feet. I mean there was one point where KC had 8 guys in the box, no safety help playing the run on 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 8. Bottom line is that's a guaranteed 20, 30 40 yard gain with even a mid-tier NFL QB.

Careful, you're inching into "hater" territory with all this sanity...

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 10:46 AM
Thing is, I don't think you'll find a single "Tebowner" (outside of idiots like Macgruder, Broncbow and the usuals) that doesn't think we should bring in a QB in some capacity.

It's called being rational.

With Quinn a FA, bringing in a QB/QBs is a given. I could care less about the Macgruder/Broncbow jackoffs, but I do wonder about rationality of the more sane "Tebower," if it turns out that he simply doesn't have the offensive ability to be an NFL quarterback. At what point will Tim's fans (if at all) be able to say "great kid, great competitor, but not an NFL quarterback." Let's get behind x, y, or z replacement. I don't see that happening with him on the roster.

Hopefully, it all becomes a moot point and he shows drastic improvement next year.

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:48 AM
Careful, you're inching into "hater" territory with all this sanity...

Only he didn't claim Tebow was a bust that should be given up on.

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:52 AM
With Quinn a FA, bringing in a QB/QBs is a given. I could care less about the Macgruder/Broncbow jackoffs, but I do wonder about rationality of the more sane "Tebower," if it turns out that he simply doesn't have the offensive ability to be an NFL quarterback. At what point will Tim's fans (if at all) be able to say "great kid, great competitor, but not an NFL quarterback." Let's get behind x, y, or z replacement. I don't see that happening with him on the roster.

Hopefully, it all becomes a moot point and he shows drastic improvement next year.

Rational people will give up on Tebow after he proves he can't play. As a first year starter, he just took the second worst team in the league to the playoffs. Many young QBs struggle throwing the ball. In fact, the very large majority do. Tebow has had a very successful first year. If you expected more, you just aren't smart enough for this conversation. We will consider giving up on him when he stops improving and stops winning.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 10:54 AM
With Quinn a FA, bringing in a QB/QBs is a given. I could care less about the Macgruder/Broncbow jackoffs, but I do wonder about rationality of the more sane "Tebower," if it turns out that he simply doesn't have the offensive ability to be an NFL quarterback. At what point will Tim's fans (if at all) be able to say "great kid, great competitor, but not an NFL quarterback." Let's get behind x, y, or z replacement. I don't see that happening with him on the roster.

Hopefully, it all becomes a moot point and he shows drastic improvement next year.

Why not ask them? There are two well-documented "more sane Tebowners" posting in this thread arguing back and forth with Tony, as well as myself.

Personally I have about the same opinion as you do. If he hasn't shown improvement over the first half of the season with a full offseason and moves made to fill some of the holes we have on offense, then I have no problem backing down from my opinion that Tebow can be a successful quarterback in the NFL.

The opinion that some others have (that he hasn't shown ANY improvement, that the playcalling is not poor to awful, that he's a glory hound) is at the very least laughable, and at the very most insane.

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 10:56 AM
Rational people will give up on Tebow after he proves he can't play. As a first year starter, he just took the second worst team in the league to the playoffs. Many young QBs struggle throwing the ball. In fact, the very large majority do. Tebow has had a very successful first year. If you expected more, you just aren't smart enough for this conversation. We will consider giving up on him when he stops improving and stops winning.
Three weeks down.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 10:56 AM
Only he didn't claim Tebow was a bust that should be given up on.

He's basically saying the same thing I am, he's just being a litte more diplomatic about it.

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:56 AM
Three weeks down.

Nope.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 10:58 AM
We will consider giving up on him when he stops improving and stops winning.

So....you gave up on him already too?

TonyR
01-03-2012, 10:59 AM
Three weeks down.

jhns isn't counting the last 3 weeks. He's also ignoring Tebow's worst in the league completion percentage when comparing him to other young QB's.

jhns
01-03-2012, 10:59 AM
He's basically saying the same thing I am, he's just being a litte more diplomatic about it.

No, you just are an idiot.

He said to give Tebow next season and replace him half way through if he hasn't improved. You said Tebow is a bust that you don't want to see behind center ever again. These are clearly not the same opinions.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 11:00 AM
So....you gave up on him already too?

LOL jhns waltzing into one of his own traps!

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 11:00 AM
Why not ask them? There are two well-documented "more sane Tebowners" posting in this thread arguing back and forth with Tony, as well as myself.

Personally I have about the same opinion as you do. If he hasn't shown improvement over the first half of the season with a full offseason and moves made to fill some of the holes we have on offense, then I have no problem backing down from my opinion that Tebow can be a successful quarterback in the NFL.

The opinion that some others have (that he hasn't shown ANY improvement, that the playcalling is not poor to awful, that he's a glory hound) is at the very least laughable, and at the very most insane.

The glory hound thing is laughable. Tebow strikes me as a hyper comparative kid, that believes in himself unconditionally. What concerns me, is that last week's game was the first time he looked like he doubted his own ability.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 11:00 AM
So....you gave up on him already too?

Alright, from this point on, anyone with a join date after January 2011 that posts a stupid comment is going on ignore. That will make this board a little more palatable.

This statement will be the benchmark.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:01 AM
So....you gave up on him already too?

You will be taken seriously when you stop switching screen names. It is sad that you embarrass yourself that much.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:02 AM
jhns isn't counting the last 3 weeks. He's also ignoring Tebow's worst in the league completion percentage when comparing him to other young QB's.

And you continue to show that you are an idiot.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:02 AM
Alright, from this point on, anyone with a join date after January 2011 that posts a stupid comment is going on ignore. That will make this board a little more palatable.

This statement will be the benchmark.

With everything I've seen posted today, I can honestly say I'm SHOCKED that this is your benchmark.

Iggy is for weak individuals.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 11:03 AM
He said to give Tebow next season and replace him half way through if he hasn't improved. You said Tebow is a bust that you don't want to see behind center ever again. These are clearly not the same opinions.

So then do you think razor would be upset if we brought somebody in to compete with Tebow and he beat him out in camp next year? Because I'm betting he's a little bit smarter than you (not going out on much of a limb here) and would be all for it.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:03 AM
You will be taken seriously when you stop switching screen names. It is sad that you embarrass yourself that much.

Honest question:

The criteria you clearly listed above was improved play and winning. Has he done either the last three weeks?

(And I'm still in your head)

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:04 AM
So then do you think razor would be upset if we brought somebody in to compete with Tebow and he beat him out in camp next year? Because I'm betting he's a little bit smarter than you (not going out on much of a limb here) and would be all for it.

If he is all for it, why would he be upset? Why are you trying to change his argument? It won't make yours better...

TonyR
01-03-2012, 11:06 AM
Honest question:

The criteria you clearly listed above was improved play and winning. Has he done either the last three weeks?

(And I'm still in your head)

LOL Now you've got the poor guy chasing his tail! As I pointed out earlier, the last 3 weeks apparently don't count. Oh, and you won't get a direct answer.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 11:08 AM
The glory hound thing is laughable. Tebow strikes me as a hyper comparative kid, that believes in himself unconditionally. What concerns me, is that last week's game was the first time he looked like he doubted his own ability.

Yeah I think at some point being hamstrung by dumb or ultra conservative playcalling has to affect your confidence. We have seen Tebow complete every type of pass that an NFL quarterback needs to to succeed. We have also seen him miss wide open wide receivers. Considering how much skill it takes to hit wide receivers in the NFL, I'm willing to give Tebow the benefit of the doubt that he CAN be successful, and that many of the misses were the result of poor timing and poor mechanics.

Instead of doing what most rational offenses do with young quarterbacks and trying to establish the passing game through short passes and getting the guy into a rhythm, instead we don't pass at all. If it were me at quarterback, and I had been a winner at every level of football, I would start to doubt myself as well.

Once again, I feel like a full offseason as the starter with the first team should correct this. If it doesn't, then we need to start looking into getting a new franchise quarterback.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Honest question:

The criteria you clearly listed above was improved play and winning. Has he done either the last three weeks?

(And I'm still in your head)

1. Saying he hadn't shown improvement in games like the Pats is showing exactly how intelligent all of you haters are.

2. Players can have bad games in their first year. Who judges on a two or three week scale? I can show you periods where Brady and Manning have had off games. Are they terrible?

3. I'm not sure why you have this obsession with being in my head. I am straight. Sorry.

It will be fun bumping these threads later. You can switch screen names again after you are finished embarrassing yourself, again.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 11:10 AM
Yeah I think at some point being hamstrung by dumb or ultra conservative playcalling has to affect your confidence.

Was it "dumb" during our 6 game winning streak? Why did it stop working the last 3 weeks? Why does he appear to be less confident now than before?

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:11 AM
LOL Now you've got the poor guy chasing his tail! As I pointed out earlier, the last 3 weeks apparently don't count. Oh, and you won't get a direct answer.

Aww, look at the poor guy trying to cling to others after making himself look like an idiot. How cute!

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 11:13 AM
Nope.

New England is an elite team, so we'll call that one a mulligan, but in what specific way did he improve last week? Or in the the Buffalo game? The KC game concerns me because he looked hesitant to pull the trigger. The play-calling wasn't nearly as horrendous as some people are making it out to be. Including the flea-flicker where Decker was wide open by 4 or 5 steps there were, there were at least half a dozen instances of open receivers, or at the very least open by NFL window standards. The 22 attempts doesn't include the times that a passing play was called, but Tim held the ball and took a sack or pulled the ball down and ran. Hell, even if they aren't open if you have man coverage with no safety help you've got to throw it up and let your receiver make a play. Tebow knows this too. It's not like he ran the triple option at Florida. The entire offense is based on constraint theory where you run, until the safety/MLB cheat up and then you take advantage of one-on-one mismatches to the outside. He refused to pull the trigger, which is concerning to those of us that want him to be successful.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:14 AM
Was it "dumb" during our 6 game winning streak? Why did it stop working the last 3 weeks? Why does he appear to be less confident now than before?

So you think the play calling has been good? The third down QB draw thirty times a season is helping? How about back to back QB draws? Those work a lot in the NFL?

The game plans are fantastic. The actual play calling is horrible.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:14 AM
1. Saying he hadn't shown improvement in games like the Pats is showing exactly how intelligent all of you haters are.

Well, then spell it out for me. Tell me what he did in that game that showed improvement, keeping in mind that it was against the #32 ranked defense in the league. One that was fielding offensive players at the time.

2. Players can have bad games in their first year. Who judges on a two or three week scale? I can show you periods where Brady and Manning have had off games. Are they terrible?

Exactly. This is what I'm trying to figure out from you. What is your threshold? How long? What if we start of next season 0-4 and he looks like he looked this past week? 0-6? 0-8?

I just want to know what your personal criteria is.

And what if we DO end up 0-4 to start next season and he shows he hasn't grown at all? Now we've essentially lost this season AND dug ourselves another hole for next year.
3. I'm not sure why you have this obsession with being in my head. I am straight. Sorry.

It will be fun bumping these threads later. You can switch screen names again after you are finished embarrassing yourself, again.

According to you, who guaranteed I'd be posting under some other username by the new year. Wrong again. Shocker, I know.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:17 AM
New England is an elite team, so we'll call that one a mulligan, but in what specific way did he improve last week? Or in the the Buffalo game? The KC game concerns me because he looked hesitant to pull the trigger. The play-calling wasn't nearly as horrendous as some people are making it out to be. Including the flea-flicker where Decker was wide open by 4 or 5 steps there were, there were at least half a dozen instances of open receivers, or at the very least open by NFL window standards. The 22 attempts doesn't include the times that a passing play was called, but Tim held the ball and took a sack or pulled the ball down and ran. Hell, even if they aren't open if you have man coverage with no safety help you've got to throw it up and let your receiver make a play. Tebow knows this too. It's not like he ran the triple option at Florida. The entire offense is based on constraint theory where you run, until the safety/MLB cheat up and then you take advantage of one-on-one mismatches to the outside. He refused to pull the trigger, which is concerning to those of us that want him to be successful.

He isn't judged every two weeks. There is no two week curve. He has improved through the season. A young player having a few bad games, doesn't change this fact. You are not being rational.

He had 300 yards and 2 TDs against the pats. He was throwing pretty well. I don't get why you would ever include that game even if that team sucks...

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:23 AM
He isn't judged every two weeks. There is no two week curve. He has improved through the season. A young player having a few bad games, doesn't change this fact. You are not being rational.

He looked better last year. He's regressed.

He had 300 yards and 2 TDs against the pats. He was throwing pretty well. I don't get why you would ever include that game even if that team sucks...

He didn't have 300 yards against the Pats, even if you combine passing and rushing yards.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:24 AM
Well, then spell it out for me. Tell me what he did in that game that showed improvement, keeping in mind that it was against the #32 ranked defense in the league. One that was fielding offensive players at the time.



Exactly. This is what I'm trying to figure out from you. What is your threshold? How long? What if we start of next season 0-4 and he looks like he looked this past week? 0-6? 0-8?

I just want to know what your personal criteria is.

And what if we DO end up 0-4 to start next season and he shows he hasn't grown at all? Now we've essentially lost this season AND dug ourselves another hole for next year.
3. I'm not sure why you have this obsession with being in my head. I am straight. Sorry.



According to you, who guaranteed I'd be posting under some other username by the new year. Wrong again. Shocker, I know.

I didn't make that guarantee. My posts are all still here. You can prove me wrong at any time.

You would have to watch the ganes to know that he looked good as he put up 300 yards and 2 TDs. Anyone saying he had a bad game Against the pats, is an idiot.

I don't know. If your aunt had balls...

TonyR
01-03-2012, 11:26 AM
You are not being rational.


The problem is he's being very rational, but you can't refute any of his points. He hasn't improved, that's the point! Two straight weeks late in the season, two straight abysmal performances. And this against teams that aren't very good. Bad pocket awareness, bad vision, bad footwork, bad throwing motion, bad accuracy, inability to move the football, turning the football over, failing to score, losing.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:27 AM
He looked better last year. He's regressed.



He didn't have 300 yards against the Pats, even if you combine passing and rushing yards.

You continually show us why you had to switch accounts.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:33 AM
I didn't make that guarantee. My posts are all still here. You can prove me wrong at any time.



Here's your proof. Owned.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3385128&postcount=722

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3384696&postcount=705

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:34 AM
You continually show us why you had to switch accounts.

Show me the math. Show me how less than 200 passing and less than 100 rushing adds up to 300. I'll be waiting.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:36 AM
The problem is he's being very rational, but you can't refute any of his points. He hasn't improved, that's the point! Two straight weeks late in the season, two straight abysmal performances. And this against teams that aren't very good. Bad pocket awareness, bad vision, bad footwork, bad throwing motion, bad accuracy, inability to move the football, turning the football over, failing to score, losing.

No good QB has ever had a couple of bad games! These clearly show he hasn't gotten better even though he was throwing much better just before them! Bust!

You are an idiot. This can't be stated enough.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:40 AM
Here's your proof. Owned.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3385128&postcount=722

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3384696&postcount=705

So proof of guarantee is an over/under? Interesting.

Well, you sure passed that mark. Lets see if you can last another year.

jhns
01-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Show me the math. Show me how less than 200 passing and less than 100 rushing adds up to 300. I'll be waiting.

I rounded a few yards up because I didn't want to look it up. You know you have nothing when you come with these childish arguments.

He only had 290 yards(and no, I didn't look up his real total) after taking a 30 yard sack as he tried to make a fourth down play at the end of the game! He clearly was horrible!

LOL @ the stupidity.

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 11:46 AM
I have mad respect for your understanding of the game but must admit that I'm baffled trying to understand what you (and others) have seen that gives you any confidence that his passing ability is ever going to get anywhere close to where it needs to get. The novelty act coupled with his strong/unique run/option ability has made it possible for him to fake his way though being an NFL QB the past several weeks on a mediocre-at-best team. He deserves full credit for that. I just think all aspects of his passing ability are so poor that he'll never get there. Pocket awareness, footwork, throwing motion, accuracy... he needs to make a quantum leap on every one and then some. Possible? I suppose. Probable? Unlikely.

Sorry for the delay was at the gym.

Pocket awareness? His pocket awareness is one of his strengths as far as I'm concerned. He takes more sacks extending plays, but that's far from an indictment on his pocket presence, but rather a statement towards his never say die mentality and big play potential.

Footwork and throwing motion certainly are wonky, but so what? As for accuracy, that's WAY overblown that the reality of his passing. It's much better than it "seems".

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 11:50 AM
I rounded a few yards up because I didn't want to look it up. You know you have nothing when you come with these childish arguments.

Interesting considering you've done it to me at least twice so far in different arguments.

Kaylore
01-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Sorry for the delay was at the gym.

Pocket awareness? His pocket awareness is one of his strengths as far as I'm concerned. He takes more sacks extending plays, but that's far from an indictment on his pocket presence, but rather a statement towards his never say die mentality and big play potential.

Footwork and throwing motion certainly are wonky, but so what? As for accuracy, that's WAY overblown that the reality of his passing. It's much better than it "seems".

His field awareness sucks, though. What's odd is he seems to understand what happened after the fact. He knows where the safeties were, what the coverage was and even has been shown to be able to quote right after the game how many times they blitzed him a certain way before he's even looked at the film. He just can't read and react fast enough before the window is gone. That, or he's waiting for them to be "college open" and not "NFL open."

It's a major problem. I agree on his accuracy being underrated. His mechanics need cleanup, but nothing terrible. I can live with all that in the name of development. I could even tolerate the slow reads if he started showing some improvement, even a bit. What pisses me off is he's taking sacks and turning the ball over at the worst times - something he was never doing before.

Oh and I hate him because he isn't Mormon, unlike the rest of the Denver Broncos.

Mile High Mojoe
01-03-2012, 11:59 AM
MHM, do I sound happy?

I doubt you were happy. So what purpose did this thread serve? Just sayin...

OABB
01-03-2012, 12:00 PM
Jhns + therev =win.

come at them losers.

KO5K
01-03-2012, 12:03 PM
That, or he's waiting for them to be "college open" and not "NFL open."

I think it's this.

Considering his hesitation has got steadily worse since last year, I'm thinking Tebow isn't necessarily the root of the problem.

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 12:08 PM
His field awareness sucks, though. What's odd is he seems to understand what happened after the fact. He knows where the safeties were, what the coverage was and even has been shown to be able to quote right after the game how many times they blitzed him a certain way before he's even looked at the film. He just can't read and react fast enough before the window is gone. That, or he's waiting for them to be "college open" and not "NFL open."


That's a good way of putting it. He has really good instincts as far as feeling the pass rush and avoiding it. I don't think arm strength is an issue, but teams take away one read and he's done. I'm not going to pretend like Denver's receiving core has been great or even good this year, but there are guys getting NFL open, by the nature of the defenses teams are throwing at us.

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Interesting considering you've done it to me at least twice so far in different arguments.

Again, never happened.

OABB
01-03-2012, 12:16 PM
Tebow sucks. end of story. all the good qbs were born, not made. its god given. practice, repetiion, development, coaching and learning fundamentals is for fags.

cut him. hes a bust. when we drafted a raw project, I expected him to be pro ready.and efficient in 14 games. hes obviously a loser. why are you tebowners blind to this?


only a loser needs to work hard.to get better at his craft. Aaron rogers could.throw a spiral before he could walk. his dad tried to show him how to hold the stitching and how to stand.up...and baby Rogers.just picked up the football, and threw it over dem mountains.

true story.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Again, never happened.

Again? What is the other instance of something never happening?

TheReverend
01-03-2012, 12:19 PM
His field awareness sucks, though.

Bull****.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 12:19 PM
No good QB has ever had a couple of bad games! These clearly show he hasn't gotten better even though he was throwing much better just before them! Bust!

I don't know about you but I don't see how playing your worst in the last two games of the year shows improvement. Improvement means getting better over time, not worse. Right? Do I need to draw you a picture?

bendog
01-03-2012, 12:21 PM
pocket awareness and Tebow should not appear in the same sentence unless accompanied by a negative.

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:21 PM
I don't know about you but I don't see how playing your worst in the last two games of the year shows improvement. Improvement means getting better over time, not worse. Right? Do I need to draw you a picture?

So everyone that had a bad week 17 is regressing? Good to know.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 12:23 PM
So everyone that had a bad week 17 is regressing? Good to know.

I specifically said 2 games and you come back with "week 17". I can't lob the ball in there any slower for you to hit, jhns. Do you want me to roll it? Or get a bigger ball? What can I do to make this any easier for you. Two games, dummy. Two in a row.

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:24 PM
Again? What is the other instance of something never happening?

Poor thing.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 12:24 PM
I don't know about you but I don't see how playing your worst in the last two games of the year shows improvement. Improvement means getting better over time, not worse. Right? Do I need to draw you a picture?

Here I'll draw you a picture.

Would you say the S&P 500 showed improvement over the last month?

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 12:25 PM
So everyone that had a bad week 17 is regressing? Good to know.

Look at this season and tell me:

Is his completion percentage getting better?
Is his turnover rate getting better?
Are his passing numbers getting better?
Are his rushing numbers getting better?
Are we scoring more points?

What EXACTLY is happening out there that leads you to believe he's getting better?

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:25 PM
I specifically said 2 games and you come back with "week 17". I can't lob the ball in there any slower for you to hit, jhns. Do you want me to roll it? Or get a bigger ball? What can I do to make this any easier for you. Two games, dummy. Two in a row.

Two games a career makes!

My point is the same no matter how you spin it. I can show you bad two game stretches from every QB in the league. Many were getting better at the time. According to you, they all wrre regressing and should have been given up on...

You are an idiot.

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:26 PM
Look at this season and tell me:

Is his completion percentage getting better?
Is his turnover rate getting better?
Are his passing numbers getting better?
Are his rushing numbers getting better?
Are we scoring more points?

What EXACTLY is happening out there that leads you to believe he's getting better?

Yes.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 12:32 PM
Yes.

No.

OABB
01-03-2012, 12:33 PM
Look at this season and tell me:

Is his completion percentage getting better?
Is his turnover rate getting better?
Are his passing numbers getting better?
Are his rushing numbers getting better?
Are we scoring more points?

What EXACTLY is happening out there that leads you to believe he's getting better?

Nothing. however, this mane feels oddly like the mane after the Detroit game. If Tebow does not improve he will be gone. however, he has shown an ability to overcome in his short career, and I think to write him off now shows agenda and cramps.

I just never understood why he gets compared to 7 year vets...we all knew he was a project.

razorwire77
01-03-2012, 12:36 PM
Bull****.

From a passing standpoint, it absolutely does need serious work. His instinctive ability to run, combined with incredible athletic ability for a 250 pound kid can disguise it sometimes as he extends plays, but in terms of passing field awareness (keeping your eyes downfield, going through your progressions at NFL speeds, hot routes etc.) he has serious issues. Not that they can't be corrected over time, but teams are absolutely daring the offense to throw quick timing routes over the middle of the field because they know Timmy can't do it.

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:37 PM
No.

So he doesn't hit 50% completions until week 12, then gets there multiple times, and his completion percentage hasn't improved? What an interestingly stupid response.

He has improved in every area. A couple of bad games doesn't change this fact. You would actually have to watch the games to see it though, or look at the stats...

Again, it is easy to see why you had to create a new account.

theAPAOps5
01-03-2012, 12:38 PM
Doesn't sound like you're done with him at all then...

"I'm done with him! ...but I look forward to seeing him in the playoffs and competing for the job next year!"

Be quiet, Tony.

As bad as he looked these past two games, it would be bad to not at least give him another offseason as the number one QB to improve.

However, in any thread started by BroncBow I will say loudly they should cut or move him........ Because its fun.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 12:44 PM
Here I'll draw you a picture.

Would you say the S&P 500 showed improvement over the last month?

LOL You just proved my point. I'm curious what you aren't understanding?

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 12:45 PM
So he doesn't hit 50% completions until week 12, then gets there multiple times, and his completion percentage hasn't improved? What an interestingly stupid response.

He was a 50% passer last year.
He was a 45% passer for the first 6 games he appeared in this year.
He was a 48% passer for the last 6 games he appeared in this year.

I see no improvement there. Sorry.

He has improved in every area. A couple of bad games doesn't change this fact. You would actually have to watch the games to see it though, or look at the stats...

Again, it is easy to see why you had to create a new account.

Like I thought. No examples to support your point. Per usual.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 12:48 PM
Two games a career makes!

My point is the same no matter how you spin it. I can show you bad two game stretches from every QB in the league. Many were getting better at the time. According to you, they all wrre regressing and should have been given up on...

LOL Now you're twisting yourself into a pretzel! Who ever said anything about "a career"? You said he's getting better. Playing your worst in your most recent two games does not show getting better. What measurement are you using for improvement? Show us the improvement. Give me some stats or a trend line. Something. Anything!

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:49 PM
He was a 50% passer last year.
He was a 45% passer for the first 6 games he appeared in this year.
He was a 48% passer for the last 6 games he appeared in this year.

I see no improvement there. Sorry.



Like I thought. No examples to support your point. Per usual.

Terrible spins make you look like an idiot. Then again, you are one.

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:50 PM
LOL Now you're twisting yourself into a pretzel! Who ever said anything about "a career"? You said he's getting better. Playing your worst in your most recent two games does not show getting better. What measurement are you using for improvement? Show us the improvement. Give me some stats or a trend line. Something. Anything!

You clearly aren't smart enough to keep up.

bendog
01-03-2012, 12:52 PM
As bad as he looked these past two games, it would be bad to not at least give him another offseason as the number one QB to improve.

However, in any thread started by BroncBow I will say loudly they should cut or move him........ Because its fun.

come on ... say Jax offers their one for him straight up. That'd be 7 overall. Hey, I can dream.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 12:53 PM
Terrible spins make you look like an idiot. Then again, you are one.

Personal attacks = acknowledgement of lost argument every single time. At least you're finally learning.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 12:56 PM
You clearly aren't smart enough to keep up.

Your posts aren't getting any better, either... Hilarious!

jhns
01-03-2012, 12:59 PM
Personal attacks = acknowledgement of lost argument every single time. At least you're finally learning.

I'm sure a sped kid like you actually believes this.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 01:01 PM
LOL You just proved my point. I'm curious what you aren't understanding?

What I'm not understanding is how you think two awful games at the end of the year somehow negate his improvement in games 1-9. I think his overall production is better today than it was at the beginning of the season, even if you include those two games.

So no, my picture did not prove your point, it proved the fact that, although there are setbacks, it is still possible to have overall improvement.

jhns
01-03-2012, 01:03 PM
Your posts aren't getting any better, either... Hilarious!

You can't get better than perfect.

So, tell us again how you don't want Tebow here and how that doesn't mean you don't want Tebow here. There is no point in actually trying to conversate with this level of stupidity.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 01:09 PM
LOL Now you're twisting yourself into a pretzel! Who ever said anything about "a career"? You said he's getting better. Playing your worst in your most recent two games does not show getting better. What measurement are you using for improvement? Show us the improvement. Give me some stats or a trend line. Something. Anything!

Please read these passing stats:

1-8 14yds 0 TD 1 INT
9-21 106 yds 0 TD 0 INT
18-33 193yds 1 TD 2 INT
6-11 71yds 0 TD 1 INT
4-10 36yds 0 TD 1 INT
8-15 131yds 1 TD 0 INT
11-31 190yds 0 TD 1 INT
14-28 147yds 0 TD 3 INT
16-24 284yds 2 TD 1 INT
23-44 345yds 3 TD 0 INT
13-34 143yds 0 TD 4 INT

Did this person improve overall over the course of the year?

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 01:10 PM
What I'm not understanding is how you think two awful games at the end of the year somehow negate his improvement in games 1-9. I think his overall production is better today than it was at the beginning of the season, even if you include those two games.

I just can't see this. If you include the last two games, his numbers are at best the same across the board. Worse when you consider the turnovers are increasing.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 01:13 PM
Please read these passing stats:

1-8 14yds 0 TD 1 INT
9-21 106 yds 0 TD 0 INT
18-33 193yds 1 TD 2 INT
6-11 71yds 0 TD 1 INT
4-10 36yds 0 TD 1 INT
8-15 131yds 1 TD 0 INT
11-31 190yds 0 TD 1 INT
14-28 147yds 0 TD 3 INT
16-24 284yds 2 TD 1 INT
23-44 345yds 3 TD 0 INT
13-34 143yds 0 TD 4 INT

Did this person improve overall over the course of the year?

Tough to tell when it took until game 7 to hit 100 pass attempts.

jhns
01-03-2012, 01:16 PM
Tough to tell when it took until game 7 to hit 100 pass attempts.

It took seven games before he hit 50%. He then hit it in 4 of the last six games.

No improvement anywhere!

He just took the second worst team in the league to the playoffs, after being spotted a 1-4 record. You haters have no legs to stand on in this argument.

It is easy to see why you had to create a new account.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 01:18 PM
It took seven games before he hit 50%. He then hit it in 4 of the last six games.

No improvement anywhere!

He just took the second worst team in the league to the playoffs, after being spotted a 1-4 record. You haters have no legs to stand on in this argument.

It is easy to see why you had to create a new account.

Those aren't Tebow's numbers genius.

jhns
01-03-2012, 01:21 PM
Those aren't Tebow's numbers genius.

The numbers I cited are...

houghtam
01-03-2012, 01:26 PM
Please read these passing stats:

1-8 14yds 0 TD 1 INT
9-21 106 yds 0 TD 0 INT
18-33 193yds 1 TD 2 INT
6-11 71yds 0 TD 1 INT
4-10 36yds 0 TD 1 INT
8-15 131yds 1 TD 0 INT
11-31 190yds 0 TD 1 INT
14-28 147yds 0 TD 3 INT
16-24 284yds 2 TD 1 INT
23-44 345yds 3 TD 0 INT
13-34 143yds 0 TD 4 INT

Did this person improve overall over the course of the year?

Or this guy:

13-23 168 0-0
12-24 86 0-0
33-54 363 2-0
16-20 202 3-0
25-38 203 2-4
21-31 250 3-0
15-21 107 1-1
19-27 185 1-2
19-26 258 4-0
20-28 213 0-0
19-28 218 0-2
19-35 207 0-1

IMO there's no improvement there. He's clearly regressed over those last two games, regardless of his performance over the course of the rest of the season, therefore there is no overall improvement and this guy is an abject failure.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 01:26 PM
The numbers i cited were...

Conveniently ignoring last year, even though it's been continuously pointed out by everyone on this site but you that he seems to have regressed since last year.

bowtown
01-03-2012, 01:28 PM
I just want to know why Tebow apparently now has Herpes. Where did he get them, and could this possibly be the reason for his decline?

jhns
01-03-2012, 01:29 PM
Conveniently ignoring last year, even though it's been continuously pointed out by everyone on this site but you that he seems to have regressed since last year.

You mean under a different staff, running a comoletely different system? He didn't regress. You just don't understand what you are watching.

Shotgun Willie
01-03-2012, 01:31 PM
You mean under a different staff, running a comoletely different system? He didn't regress. You just don't understand what you are watching.

Same play caller. Same player.

Show me the improvement. I want hard evidence.

houghtam
01-03-2012, 01:32 PM
You mean under a different staff, running a comoletely different system? He didn't regress. You just don't understand what you are watching.

I really wish you'd stop quoting him, but since I can't help but read many of those replies, yes. It is clear he believes he is watching jai alai.

jhns
01-03-2012, 01:36 PM
Same play caller. Same player.

Show me the improvement. I want hard evidence.

So you think we are running the same sysyem?

LOL

jhns
01-03-2012, 01:38 PM
I really wish you'd stop quoting him, but since I can't help but read many of those replies, yes. It is clear he believes he is watching jai alai.

Sorry, I'll stop.

I had to look up jauli alai. What a random(and good) reference, lol.

jhns
01-04-2012, 07:48 AM
So, tonyr and new account guy. Elway agrees with everything I said in this thread. He mise well of just quoted my posts in this interview.

You lose.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19667166

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 08:00 AM
He has improved in every area.

Feel free to point out where Elway says that.

bendog
01-04-2012, 08:02 AM
Sorry, I'll stop.

I had to look up jauli alai. What a random(and good) reference, lol.

you'll stop when Mel Gibson stops being a drunk a-hole ... like never.

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:04 AM
...

Learn to read. I just posted it.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 08:06 AM
Learn to read. I just posted it.

Yup. I read it.

Now you're realizing that what you thought was there really isn't there. Sucks to read through something quickly, think a quote is there when it really isn't, then realize it too late after reading it through again, doesn't it?

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:07 AM
you'll stop when Mel Gibson stops being a drunk a-hole ... like never.

I don't think you know what you responded to. Not that this is a surprise.

fontaine
01-04-2012, 08:09 AM
Tebow sucks. end of story. all the good qbs were born, not made. its god given. practice, repetiion, development, coaching and learning fundamentals is for fags.

cut him. hes a bust. when we drafted a raw project, I expected him to be pro ready.and efficient in 14 games. hes obviously a loser. why are you tebowners blind to this?


only a loser needs to work hard.to get better at his craft. Aaron rogers could.throw a spiral before he could walk. his dad tried to show him how to hold the stitching and how to stand.up...and baby Rogers.just picked up the football, and threw it over dem mountains.

true story.

That's not all true.

You left out the part about Von Miller using perfect leverage and explosive burst in sacking baby Rogers. Back then even a full diaper didn't slow down baby Von.

Sad to see now that a grown up Von is slowed down by a mere cast. All that training and hard work Von did in the past decade really was for fags.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 08:11 AM
No, you clearly didn't read it. I'm starting to doubt that you have the ability to read it.

Here is literally his only quote regarding Tebow:

"For Tim and his youth, and number of starts he's had, Tim has done a good job this year," Elway said.

bowtown
01-04-2012, 08:17 AM
Here is literally his only quote regarding Tebow:

"For Tim and his youth, and number of starts he's had, Tim has done a good job this year," Elway said.

I'm starting to doubt jhns' ability to link.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 08:19 AM
John Elway has some advice for Tim Tebow when the Denver Broncos quarterback plays in his first playoff game Sunday: Don't be afraid to "pull the trigger."

The Broncos' executive vice president of football operations told the Denver Post that it will be important for Tebow to make plays in the passing game as the Pittsburgh Steelers likely will show the Broncos eight- and nine-man fronts in order to stop Denver's running game.

When asked if Tebow had lost his confidence, Elway said it's "human nature," especially for a young quarterback, "to become more cautious."

Tebow, the author of a six-game winning streak and five fourth-quarter comebacks this season, has regressed over the last month. He's completed 30 of 74 passes (40.5 percent) for 439 yards and one touchdown with four interceptions, three lost fumbles and nine sacks in losses to the Patriots, Bills and Chiefs.

After the first four-turnover game of his career at Buffalo on Christmas Eve, Tebow looked timid last Sunday against Kansas City, unwilling to throw in tight spaces. Afterward, he looked shaken over his 6-for-22 passing performance that produced a season-low 60 yards in Denver's 7-3 loss.

"The key thing for (Tebow) is to go out, put everything behind him, go through his progressions and pull the trigger," Elway told the newspaper.

"When you get into these playoff situations, he's a good enough athlete, you know what, to pull the trigger. He's obviously upset with last week. He's already got an edge to him, so he's ready to go. I like seeing the edge. Oh, yeah. I actually love it. I have full confidence he'll bounce back and have a good week."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7422969/2012-nfl-playoffs-denver-broncos-john-elway-says-tim-tebow-needs-pull-trigger

OABB
01-04-2012, 08:21 AM
That's not all true.

You left out the part about Von Miller using perfect leverage and explosive burst in sacking baby Rogers. Back then even a full diaper didn't slow down baby Von.

Sad to see now that a grown up Von is slowed down by a mere cast. All that training and hard work Von did in the past decade really was for fags.

You should have seen baby von spin out of his used diapers. crazy fast. his full aresenal os spin moves, hand work and footwork were really usefull during delivery. he was able to break the jam from his mothers cervix and he used his speed to.shoot the gap.

IF not for the blatant holding of thr umbilicle cord, he would have recorded his first sack before weigh in.

his coaches in pop warner and college used to ask him to show them proper techniques.

Von would tell them, coaching and fundamentals are for amateurs.

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:25 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7422969/2012-nfl-playoffs-denver-broncos-john-elway-says-tim-tebow-needs-pull-trigger

Who cares what that writter thinks? Elway says Tebow got better this season. Good thing he is the one im charge.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 08:30 AM
Who cares what that writter thinks? Elway says Tebow got better this season. Good thing he is the one im charge.

Your typing skills are as impeccable as your opinions...

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:33 AM
Your typing skills are as impeccable as your opinions...

Typo smack ftw!

Yeah, I'd go there if I looked as bad as you do too.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 08:33 AM
Who cares what that writter thinks? Elway says Tebow got better this season. Good thing he is the one im charge.

Interesting, considering in YOUR link, it is the writer expressing his opinion of what Elway said based off of a quote that actually says no such thing.

TheReverend
01-04-2012, 08:34 AM
This thread makes me want to scream.

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:49 AM
...


No, he told us what Elway said and said it was Elways thoughts. They don't write out the entire interview. They clearly didn't claim Elway said he regressed in the other link tony gave.

You are proving me right with every post. You are illiterate. This last post is way beyond stupid. Again, it is easy to see why you have to create new accounts.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 08:49 AM
...if I looked as bad as you do...

You mean I look bad because an article 100% backs me up, and is supported by facts? Whereas you're relying on FO PR spin to support your typically moronic take? Quality stuff as usual, jhns.

As for your typing, it's a reflection of you. If your written word is garbage, or looks like garbage, then you look like garbage and deserve to be treated as such. Show some pride and competence in your presentation and you'll be treated accordingly. Or get continuously attacked, ignored, ridiculed, and put on ignore. Either way. Your choice.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 08:50 AM
You are ilitterite. This last post is way beyond stupid. Again, it is easy to see why you have to create new accounts.

LOL Hilarious! LOL Hilarious! LOL Hilarious! LOL

Rohirrim
01-04-2012, 08:53 AM
This thread makes me want to scream.

If a poster screams on a message board, does he make any sound?

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 08:57 AM
No, he told us what Elway said and said it was Elways thoughts.

Sorry, without the audio, it is the writer's interpretation of Elway's thoughts (especially when it's followed up with a quote that doesn't necessarily support it). And even if it was a direct quote, which it isn't, in what world is "seeing progress" the same as saying "Tebow has improved in every area," which you keep claiming?

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:58 AM
You mean I look bad because an article 100% backs me up, and is supported by facts? Whereas you're relying on FO PR spin to support your typically moronic take? Quality stuff as usual, jhns.

As for your typing, it's a reflection of you. If your written word is garbage, or looks like garbage, then you look like garbage and deserve to be treated as such. Show some pride and competence in your presentation and you'll be treated accordingly. Or get continuously attacked, ignored, ridiculed, and put on ignore. Either way. Your choice.

It is a random writer that isn't half as smart as Elway. Moronic take?

LOL

Says the McFan hating on the QB that turned this franchises season around. Poor guy.

Then my presentation is garbage. I type on a touch screen phone, while at work. You will get over it. At least my opinions make sense. It is far more embarrassing to be wrong about everything.

Kaylore
01-04-2012, 09:00 AM
Sorry, without the audio, it is the writer's interpretation of Elway's thoughts (especially when it's followed up with a quote that doesn't necessarily support it). And even if it was a direct quote, which it isn't, in what world is "seeing progress" the same as saying "Tebow has improved in every area," which you keep claiming?

Technically speaking, progress could mean in either direction. Purposely nebulous Elway...

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:01 AM
...

Your spins are terrible. Improved = better. Improved doesn't mean he didn't get better at all. Sorry.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:03 AM
LOL Hilarious! LOL Hilarious! LOL Hilarious! LOL

Who inserts errors to laugh at. That is just sad.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Technically speaking, progress could mean in either direction. Purposely nebulous Elway...

Another McFan that hates Tebow. I laugh because you actually think you know something about football as you are continually wrong about everything. One would think you would start to realize this. Of course, we could just continue thinking Orton is Tom Brady...

TonyR
01-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Who inserts errors to laugh at. That is just sad.

As sad as the clear indicator showing that you edited your post, proving that you're not only a moron but a lying moron?

Kaylore
01-04-2012, 09:08 AM
As sad as the clear indicator showing that you edited your post, proving that you're not only a moron but a lying moron?

Must change subject and hurl insults back to obscure the issue and shift the argument....

/Jhiz.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 09:09 AM
...hating on the QB that turned this franchises season around.

Your arguments get more and more desperate. I don't "hate" Tebow. I do hate losing and I do hate how poorly he's played the last two weeks. You're too stupid and invested in being right to even notice. That or you're just being dishonest trying to save face.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:10 AM
As sad as the clear indicator showing that you edited your post, proving that you're not only a moron but a lying moron?

Never happened.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 09:10 AM
Your spins are terrible. Improved = better. Improved doesn't mean he didn't get better at all. Sorry.

Once again proving that YOU can't read.

Honest question: in your world, is it not possible for a QB to improve in one area but not others?

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:11 AM
Must change subject and hurl insults back to obscure the issue and shift the argument....

/Jhiz.

Tonyr made that a subject in this thread. You seem to get dumber by the day.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:15 AM
Your arguments get more and more desperate. I don't "hate" Tebow. I do hate losing and I do hate how poorly he's played the last two weeks. You're too stupid and invested in being right to even notice. That or you're just being dishonest trying to save face.

You have continually hated on Tebow. You are claiming he made no progress this season, which is retarded. There is no way you can watch the games and claim that.

Youclaim you aren't a hater as you claim a first time starting QB shouldn't be given any time to develop. This is even after he took a 1-4 team to the playoffs. Yeah, I'm the one being ridiculous here... Clown.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:16 AM
Once again proving that YOU can't read.

Honest question: in your world, is it not possible for a QB to improve in one area but not others?

Sure. That isn't what you are arguing though. Your spins are terrible.

bronco610
01-04-2012, 09:20 AM
Another McFan that hates Tebow. I laugh because you actually think you know something about football as you are continually wrong about everything. One would think you would start to realize this. Of course, we could just continue thinking Orton is Tom Brady...

Considering Cassell went 11 and 5, Orton may very well of had the same type of success. While Tebow may be a better leader than Orton and a better runner, he certainly does not pass as well as Orton. Having said that I would rather have a good QB over both of them.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Sure. That isn't what you are arguing though. Your spins are terrible.

That is precisely what I'm arguing. No spin at all.

He's regressed overall IMO. Whether or not he has potentially improved one or two aspects of his game (I'm not sure he's even done that) doesn't matter if the other five or six things have gotten worse.

That has been my argument since post #1 in this thread.

Feel free to prove otherwise with evidence.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:25 AM
Considering Cassell went 11 and 5, Orton may very well of had the same type of success. While Tebow may be a better leader than Orton and a better runner, he certainly does not pass as well as Orton. Having said that I would rather have a good QB over both of them.

Is this supposed to make sense?

Orton was 4-14 the last two seasons. Tebow is 8-6 with the exact same team. Cassel took over a 19-1 team and went 11-5. Honestly, try thinking a little bit before posting.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:27 AM
...

You listed everything and said you see no improvement. You are a joke.

Elway said he improved. That means overall. That isn't what you have ever claimed and you just admitted it. I'm not sure what you are arguing then. Elway agrees with me.

bronco610
01-04-2012, 09:31 AM
Is this supposed to make sense?

Orton was 4-14 the last two seasons. Tebow is 8-6 with the exact same team. Cassel took over a 19-1 team and went 11-5. Honestly, try thinking a little bit before posting.

In other words Orton on the patriots might have put up great numbers like Cassell did. If cassell could do it why not orton? Thought that was fairly clear..... what did you not get?

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 09:31 AM
You listed everything and said you see no improvement. You are a joke.

Sorry, he is not a better QB today than he was at this point last year. We're scoring less. Turning the ball over more. His completion percentage is down.

Elway said he improved. That means overall.

That's your interpretation of a quote that doesn't exist.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:36 AM
In other words Orton on the patriots might have put up great numbers like Cassell did. If cassell could do it why not orton? Thought that was fairly clear..... what did you not get?

Orton was never on the Patriots... I have no clue what you are trying to say or what it has to do with what I said. Why do we care about what Orton can do on the Pats?

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:37 AM
...

Oh yeah, you are the one that thinks we run the same scheme and have the same players. Sorry, I forgot just how much of an idiot you are.

It says it in plain English.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 09:40 AM
Oh yeah, you are the one that thinks we run the same scheme and have the same players. Sorry, I forgot just how much of an idiot you are.

It says it in plain English.

Fine. Ignore last year. His regression from early this year to the end of the year is equally measurable.

jhns
01-04-2012, 09:44 AM
...

You mean like not hitting 50% passing until game seven, and then hitting it four of the last six weeks? Horrible regression there!

Now that you are going with this, you do realize Elway put out quotes last week that actually say Tebow is getting better every game, right? I'm sure he wouldn't say it about last game, but one bad game doesn't change this.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 09:51 AM
You mean like not hitting 50% passing until game seven, and then hitting it four of the last six weeks? Horrible regression there!

I'm a big fan of the cherry picking. I can play that too:

He's only had two games all year with a completion percentage over 50.0% passing. And one of those, he had only 15 attempts.

Hardly a statistically significant sample size.

Now that you are going with this, you do realize Elway put out quotes last week that actually say Tebow is getting better every game, right? I'm sure he wouldn't say it about last game, but one bad game doesn't change this.

Proof or you're lying.

jhns
01-04-2012, 10:45 AM
...

Naming what he did in every game is cherry picking? What an interestingly stupid take.

Why don't you stop claiming to be a Bronco fan if you aren't going to follow them as you hate.on them? Go google "Elway Tebow improved". He said it multiple times and everyone on the planet wrote a story on it.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 11:06 AM
Go google "Elway Tebow improved". He said it multiple times and everyone on the planet wrote a story on it.

LOL You're clinging to that like a toddler to his binky. What do you expect Elway to say? "Teboz has bin da suk the last two weekz and haz clearly regrezzed. Just don't tell that putz jhns, his little head might explode!"

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 11:14 AM
Go google "Elway Tebow improved". He said it multiple times and everyone on the planet wrote a story on it.

What's funny is if you do this very thing, the first thing that pops up is a recent article talking about Tebow slumping and all it does is go over all the Broncos options for Tebow's replacement next year:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7423168/denver-broncos-qb-options-tim-tebow

And there is literally not one article linked on page one of that google search with an Elway quote from last week about Tebow.

jhns
01-04-2012, 11:18 AM
...

This post highlights two of yoyr biggest problems. One, you listen to "experts" way too much. The same experts that claimed McDaniels was doing a good job... You clearly don't know this sport well enough to form your own educated opinion.

Second, read more than one page then. It isn't that hard.

errand
01-04-2012, 11:23 AM
Can you imagine if Orton had this kind of game? I mean Tebow basically replicated Orton's game to a T: The sack to take us out of field goal range, and the fumble near the 20 - that's at least 6 points and the margin of victory right there. Bronco fans would have demanded Orton's head.

they did even in games when orton didn't do that....

we have to still keep in perspective that tebow is young...but my God, he cannot have played any worse than he did

Miss I.
01-04-2012, 11:28 AM
Yeah, thats probably because we saw the same thing for 2+ seasons.

Perspective is cool, man.

I know that he's not mormon and you don't like non-Mormons and all, but you are beyond silly at this point.

This and the post above where you called Kaylore a clown or troll defines who you've become at least for me on this board. The irony in calling him a troll when you deliberately posted a Tebow Haters thread clearly as a way to bait people amuses me. But the fact that you are now calling Kahn a bigot based on his being Mormon, also outlines your clear religious agenda. If anyone in these threads is a bigot and religious zealot it is you Epic. And BTW, do the Catholic Church a favor and stop mentioning them, they have enough problems without you associating yourself with them. At any rate, I was going to let this go, but then decided you acted enough like a douchebag to merit being hung out to dry. I realize this is giving you the attention you clearly want, but I won't continue to listen your crap and for you to call Kahn a bigot, again says more about you then him. You can disagree with his football takes, but the horse**** you threw at him was beyond unmerited. Frankly if I was a mod I'd ban you purely on your douchebagginess level, but I suppose that would mean a lot of people would get banned based on that. I used to reserve ignore for total idiots like BroncoBow and Bob, but even they have more merit then the crap you are posting. Goodbye.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 11:30 AM
Second, read more than one page then. It isn't that hard.

Done and nope. Sorry. There are no examples of Elway saying what you said last week. Once again, you make things up and then tell others to do your dirty work by finding examples, when there are none.

You lose.

jhns
01-04-2012, 11:32 AM
...

Learn to read and you wouldn't be so confused.

Shotgun Willie
01-04-2012, 11:36 AM
Learn to read and you wouldn't be so confused.

I'm not confused at all. Same jhns schtick, different day.

jhns
01-04-2012, 11:38 AM
...

Says you.

kamakazi_kal
01-04-2012, 12:00 PM
I think we have the #1 rushing attack out of need. Tebow launching mallards means a need to be conservative.

I hope we get away from that and just let it fly. I don't think we can beat the steelers in our typical pound pound punt way.

KO5K
01-04-2012, 12:02 PM
they did even in games when orton didn't do that....

we have to still keep in perspective that tebow is young...but my God, he cannot have played any worse than he did

When Tebow does it for two and a half seasons, then you can start complaining.

Until then, STFU about Orton.

jhns
01-04-2012, 12:03 PM
When Tebow does it for two and a half seasons, then you can start complaining.

Until then, STFU about Orton.

How about we actually make it fair? If Tebow is doing this in his seventh year, he will then need replaced.

houghtam
01-04-2012, 12:07 PM
How about we actually make it fair? If Tebow is doing this in his seventh year, he will then need replaced.

Jhns, we all know that losing pretty is better than winning ugly. Missing the playoffs with a quarterback who throws pretty passes is better than making the playoffs with a second year pro who needs a lot of work. And most importantly:

Being right and losing is more important than being wrong and winning.

OABB
01-04-2012, 12:10 PM
How about we actually make it fair? If Tebow is doing this in his seventh year, he will then need replaced.

nope. Tebow just played like Orton in his 14th start. he is a BUST. Even the great and all knowing MAVEn(who has never been wrong about a professional athlete) has claimed it.

Errand and Kaylore are correct to compare the two.

Why should a guy with seven years at a profession not be compared to a guy with less than two?

duh?

Apples are orange dummy.

jhns
01-04-2012, 12:13 PM
Jhns, we all know that losing pretty is better than winning ugly. Missing the playoffs with a quarterback who throws pretty passes is better than making the playoffs with a second year pro who needs a lot of work. And most importantly:

Being right and losing is more important than being wrong and winning.

Well said. Orton and his 4-14 were far better than the playoffs! Right errand, tonyr, and kaylore?

I need to get away from internet fan for a while. Maybe I'll take a break from forums this offseason. Everyone knows everything and it doesn't matter what facts or results show...

Hulamau
01-04-2012, 12:43 PM
well instead of winning a SB , how bout we settle for completing 50% of his passes ..........

That's a start.. or at least make that 50% completed meaningful passes to set us up to score.

OABB
01-04-2012, 01:12 PM
Well said. Orton and his 4-14 were far better than the playoffs! Right errand, tonyr, and kaylore?

I need to get away from internet fan for a while. Maybe I'll take a break from forums this offseason. Everyone knows everything and it doesn't matter what facts or results show...

Just make a bet that Knowshon will break 1000 yards. Worked for my dumbass.

2KBack
01-04-2012, 01:18 PM
nope. Tebow just played like Orton in his 14th start. he is a BUST. Even the great and all knowing MAVEn(who has never been wrong about a professional athlete) has claimed it.

Errand and Kaylore are correct to compare the two.

Why should a guy with seven years at a profession not be compared to a guy with less than two?

duh?

Apples are orange dummy.

Actually their 14th starts are very similar

OABB
01-04-2012, 01:20 PM
Actually their 14th starts are very similar

Well hopefully Tebow improves as a passer and doesn't turn into a Munson that kills teams chances of winning.

jhns
01-04-2012, 01:23 PM
Just make a bet that Knowshon will break 1000 yards. Worked for my dumbass.

LOL

broncosteven
01-04-2012, 02:04 PM
What we need is a new coaching staff. Tebow was great in college.

And for Tebow to play against the current NIU football team, he would surely put up 300 yards and 3 passing TD's in a 54-3 rout.

Nothing like a big conference power house pounding a smaller school to pad stats out for the NFL draft.

bowtown
01-04-2012, 02:12 PM
Well said. Orton and his 4-14 were far better than the playoffs! Right errand, tonyr, and kaylore?

I need to get away from internet fan for a while. Maybe I'll take a break from forums this offseason. Everyone knows everything and it doesn't matter what facts or results show...

No. Wait. Don't go. [yawn]

bendog
01-04-2012, 02:14 PM
And for Tebow to play against the current NIU football team, he would surely put up 300 yards and 3 passing TD's in a 54-3 rout.

Nothing like a big conference power house pounding a smaller school to pad stats out for the NFL draft.

He could beat ole miss .... and so could the rest of the SEC.

jhns
01-04-2012, 02:17 PM
No. Wait. Don't go. [yawn]

Fine, I won't. Everyone can thank you for convincing me.

KO5K
01-04-2012, 02:19 PM
And for Tebow to play against the current NIU football team, he would surely put up 300 yards and 3 passing TD's in a 54-3 rout.

Nothing like a big conference power house pounding a smaller school to pad stats out for the NFL draft.

What about that time Tebow came through against the Sooners in the title game?

I bet oubronco knows all about that one.

bowtown
01-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Fine, I won't. Everyone can thank you for convincing me.

Phew.

2KBack
01-04-2012, 02:28 PM
Well hopefully Tebow improves as a passer and doesn't turn into a Munson that kills teams chances of winning.

I hope he improves as well...he'll have to. As passing performances go....you don't get much worse than the last game.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
01-04-2012, 02:35 PM
i aint a pro football genius just a big time fan of the Broncos and mho i think Tebow be given a whole season to prove he can play in the NFL .
also im a fan of Tebow and yet i see other fans of Tebow go off the deep end big time any lil criticism of Tebow is met with crazy insane anger . do they all need a time out in the corner ?
as for the uber anti Tebow crowd damn calm down thar your gonna have a brain amerism

Kaylore
01-04-2012, 02:37 PM
18 pages! Epic thread has become epic thread! :giggle:

jhns
01-04-2012, 02:38 PM
18 pages! Epic thread has become epic thread! :giggle:

18 pages of people laughing at your stupidity.