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Bronco_Beerslug
01-02-2012, 05:51 AM
This article is pretty close I'd say.
I think this game will make or break his tenure in Denver. If we lose again with no QB production then I believe the Broncos will react the same way and look for a QB in the draft and free agency as I don't believe anyone in the organization as any confidence in Quinn either.


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‘Tebow Mystique’ evaporating for Broncos
By Les Carpenter, Yahoo! Sports

DENVER – The improbable champions wore no hats. They didn’t dance. They didn’t dump Gatorade. They didn’t scream into the frosty mountain night the way winners do when the impossible has happened. The Denver Broncos might be unlikely conquerors of the AFC West – a once 1-4 team now hosting the Super Bowl runner-up Pittsburgh Steelers – but the party was somewhere else on Sunday night.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2qajnyt.jpg

Whatever magic lived for two blessed months in the frantic autumn of 2011 was gone on the first day of 2012, replaced with the awkward uncertainty of a team led by a quarterback who has become something less than ordinary. Percentages have evened out. The outlandish can’t happen every week and, robbed of his powers to make miracles, Tim Tebow’s Broncos have become what the scoreboard said: 7-3 losers to the Kansas City Chiefs. And this isn’t the way you want to be marching into the postseason.

No player in the NFL is as confounding as the man who came to save the Broncos for seven of eight weeks. He can be at times a contortionist, pulling Denver from sure defeats, and also overmatched, looking like a man who shouldn’t play another game in the NFL.

“The problem is still his throwing motion,” said one NFL quarterbacks coach when reached Sunday night.

Tebow pulls his arm back so far, the coach said, that it becomes obvious when he is going to throw, and since Tebow also tends to lock his eyes on his receivers, defensive backs realize where the ball is going. They rush to those receivers, forcing Tebow to either attempt precise throws he still cannot make or tuck the ball and run. On Sunday the holes in the defense weren’t there the way they had been in October and November. He had 16 yards rushing and those came hard and painful.

His final line on Sunday read like a failed experiment from the exhibition season: 6-for-22 for 60 yards and a passer rating of 20.6.

It’s as if a blueprint has been made of how to stop Tebow and now everyone is following it.

Or as another NFL quarterbacks coach said recently: “He’s not a quarterback. He can’t throw.”

Yes, this is a problem indeed because Tebow remains the Broncos’ best hope, the player around whom an offense has been built, a player whose ability to hold onto the ball allowed Denver coach John Fox to emphasize a run-first attack that made the Broncos’ defense more effective. It is no accident the Broncos won seven of the first eight games they played after dumping Kyle Orton and making Tebow the starter. And yet there is also a real sense that next weekend’s game might also be for his future here.

Seven wins – including five amazing, resourceful, last-second victories – don’t add up to much when paired with four straight losses if Denver loses next Sunday to the Steelers. They look even worse with passer ratings of 37.9 and 20.6 which is what he’s had these last two weeks.

It is not a secret in NFL circles that team vice president John Elway is uncomfortable with Tebow mania. On Sunday evening he stood in the news conference room adjacent to the Broncos locker room and watched as Tebow answered questions with his usual optimistic, non-revealing manner. Elway placed his foot on a chair and faced away from the podium where Tebow stood. He smiled when Tebow politically answered a loaded question about officiating with a passive-aggressive, “I think the refs do a good job and I think they did a great job in the game.”

But there was also a stern look on Elway’s face, one that seemed to say he has much more on his mind than just a 7-3 loss and a home game looming with the Steelers. Trying to read Elway on Tebow became one of Denver’s parlor games last year. There was always a sense he was painted into a corner, stuck with the previous regime’s brilliant idea and desperate to get onto a quarterback who more resembled him. Through the winning, Elway gave more grudging endorsements of Tebow. But the three losses have changed the atmosphere. As quickly as Tebow rose, the sense around the team is that he is tumbling just as fast.

CONT...

mhgaffney
01-02-2012, 06:03 AM
Give the kid a break. He's still a rookie.

Elway looked as bad or worse his first year.

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 06:20 AM
Haters gonna hate.

Do yourself a favor and don't watch on Sunday.

Bronco_Beerslug
01-02-2012, 06:29 AM
Give the kid a break. He's still a rookie.
Elway looked as bad or worse his first year.Uh, don't EVEN try and compare Tebow to Elway and no, he is not a rookie this year.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 06:33 AM
It just amazes me how people never doubt the coach.. Like Fox is some god.. they did the same with Orton.. Could Tebow have gotten the rope Orton got over all those losses? Why do they get a pass? Because they do things in a paint by number fashion.

Orton checks down and can't get first downs or TDs and fetals when pressured.. but he doesn't turn the ball over in losses and puts up hollow stats. Fox runs the ball on every play and plays in such a way to protect his defense.. but it also ensures you lose games because both guys aren't playing to win but playing to not lose.

barryr
01-02-2012, 06:34 AM
His arm motion is not the problem. Kerry Collins and Randall Cunningham did the same thing when they threw and both played many years in the NFL and were quite productive. Reading defenses is what Tebow needs to work on and surprise, that is a weakness for every young QB.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 06:35 AM
Uh, don't EVEN try and compare Tebow to Elway and no, he is not a rookie this year.

Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.

Shotgun Willie
01-02-2012, 06:36 AM
Give the kid a break. He's still a rookie.

Elway looked as bad or worse his first year.

Even in Tebow's best games, he hasn't even looked serviceable as a QB for more than 15-20 minutes over the course of the 60 minute game. And, for the last month or so, he hasn't even managed that.

He's clearly regressing. He's no longer a surprise and teams have a blueprint now on how to beat him. It's been on him and the coaches to adjust and they haven't.

It's the Eddie Royal effect, magnified due to the position he plays.

Shotgun Willie
01-02-2012, 06:37 AM
Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.

For those that have you on ignore......they need to see this insanity.

Bronco_Beerslug
01-02-2012, 06:41 AM
Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.
I take it this is sarcasm because no one that knows anything about NFL football would ever utter anything remotely as stupid as the above.

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 06:42 AM
Haters gonna hate.

Do yourself a favor and don't watch on Sunday.

Ha!

Yeah, Broncos fans. Do what the drama llama does when confronted with reality: Stick your head in the sand.

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 06:45 AM
Yeah, Broncos fans. Do what the drama llama does when confronted with reality: Stick your head in the sand.

Hilarious!

Clownhirrim to the defense of liberal morons again! YAAAAAY!

yerner
01-02-2012, 06:58 AM
Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.

wow.

Rohirrim
01-02-2012, 07:00 AM
Hilarious!

Clownhirrim to the defense of liberal morons again! YAAAAAY!

Good thinking! So now if we realize that Tebow can't pass worth a **** we can simply label the passing game as "liberal." Let's get a memo out to Hannity and Beck: Passing is a liberal plot. So now, when Tebow can't pass, it's actually a good thing.

Release the propaganda!

Keep hanging out with MacGruder. It's rubbing off on you, drama llama.

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 07:32 AM
Good thinking! So now if we realize that Tebow can't pass worth a **** we can simply label the passing game as "liberal." Let's get a memo out to Hannity and Beck: Passing is a liberal plot. So now, when Tebow can't pass, it's actually a good thing.

Release the propaganda!

Keep hanging out with MacGruder. It's rubbing off on you, drama llama.

Noncognitivismhirrim.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 07:41 AM
Ha!

Yeah, Broncos fans. Do what the drama llama does when confronted with reality: Stick your head in the sand.

This is true. OU losing this year, mavs a few years ago, OU pretty much every year.

McDman
01-02-2012, 07:44 AM
Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.

Go fvck yourself you epic douchebag. This cements the fact that you clearly never watched a Bronco game before last year.

People like this leaving the board if Tebow was gone would probably be the biggest positive.

epicSocialism4tw
01-02-2012, 07:46 AM
This is true. OU losing this year, mavs a few years ago, OU pretty much every year.

What the heck are you talking about? Hilarious!

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 07:47 AM
Go f*** yourself you epic douchebag. This cements the fact that you clearly never watched a Bronco game before last year.

People like this leaving the board if Tebow was gone would probably be the biggest positive.

So why does Tebow have better stats than Elway in their first seasons?

And Elway was nowhere near Tebow athletically... in the 80s he might have been athletic but not now. Tebow would have tied Elway into a pretzel..

Steve Sewell
01-02-2012, 07:47 AM
Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.

You are a ****ing moron, plain and simple.

KevinJames
01-02-2012, 07:49 AM
I am not ready to give up just yet we are in the playoffs lets give him a good gameplan and see if he can execute it if he can't and he falls flat on his face it has to become a open competition situation and we have to bring someone in who we can say is our future.

I think even if Tebow fails sunday the only way he doesn't go into camp as the favorite is if we trade up for RG3 or get Matt Flynn in Free Agency, or some how end up with Peyton Manning lol which are all long shots.

So why does Tebow have better stats than Elway in their first seasons?

And Elway was nowhere near Tebow athletically... in the 80s he might have been athletic but not now. Tebow would have tied Elway into a pretzel..

please Tebow wouldn't have been able to play QB for any team in the 80s the windows to throw into were tighter the coverage was better and the DBs could get away with so much more,

do yourself a favor and quit posting dumb **** that compares Tebow to Elway because Elway runs this town and if you don't like it go somewhere else.

Steve Sewell
01-02-2012, 07:54 AM
So why does Tebow have better stats than Elway in their first seasons?

And Elway was nowhere near Tebow athletically... in the 80s he might have been athletic but not now. Tebow would have tied Elway into a pretzel..

Elway was a better athlete than tebow. You need to check yourself son. It is quite obvious that you don't know **** about the broncos or the nfl, for that matter.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:03 AM
do yourself a favor and quit posting dumb **** that compares Tebow to Elway because Elway runs this town and if you don't like it go somewhere else.

Jordan runs the Bobcats too.. see how far that gets them...

You guys are blindly following someone that said Orton gave you the best chance to win. Orton couldn't even stay healthy his 4 whole games he could have played for KC.

I doubt Elway would have stayed healthy in this era either unless he had a much better line than the current one..

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:06 AM
Elway was a better athlete than tebow. You need to check yourself son. It is quite obvious that you don't know **** about the broncos or the nfl, for that matter.

Elway was a better athlete than Tebow.. ? BWahahaha

This shows how delusional many Denver fans are...

Tebow had a longer TD run his very first quarter started in the NFL than Elway ever had in his career...

That would have never happened with Fox as coach by the way..

KevinJames
01-02-2012, 08:14 AM
Elway was a better athlete than Tebow.. ? BWahahaha

This shows how delusional many Denver fans are...

Tebow had a longer TD run his very first quarter started in the NFL than Elway ever had in his career...

That would have never happened with Fox as coach by the way..

You have become a bigger troll than a certain chiefs fan on this board congrats

TonyR
01-02-2012, 08:15 AM
Haters gonna hate.


Other than bashing people who are critical of Tebow I've yet to see you express an explanation for why he's sucked so bad the last 3 weeks. Didn't you expect better out of our starting QB yesterday? Was that performance acceptable to you? Did you see something that gave you reason to believe this kid can be an NFL QB? Looking forward to your thoughtful response...

McDman
01-02-2012, 08:17 AM
So why does Tebow have better stats than Elway in their first seasons?

And Elway was nowhere near Tebow athletically... in the 80s he might have been athletic but not now. Tebow would have tied Elway into a pretzel..

Elway was making mistakes that were correctable. I have seen little evidence that Tebow can correct his flaws. They are far worse than what Elway was working with.

It's going to be entertaining in a couple of years when Tebow is out of the league to watch you make up stories and stats about how every team treated him wrong.

Paladin
01-02-2012, 08:20 AM
Ha!

Yeah, Broncos fans. Do what the drama llama does when confronted with reality: Stick your head in the sand.

Drama Llama, Emo Emu, Oscillating Ostrich, Dipstick.....

All the same.....

Rigs11
01-02-2012, 08:21 AM
Tebow was awful yesterday.the notion that someone is a hater for pointing this out is moronic.then again it is llama

Rigs11
01-02-2012, 08:24 AM
Other than bashing people who are critical of Tebow I've yet to see you express an explanation for why he's sucked so bad the last 3 weeks. Didn't you expect better out of our starting QB yesterday? Was that performance acceptable to you? Did you see something that gave you reason to believe this kid can be an NFL QB? Looking forward to your thoughtful response...

Any other qb would be benched by now after the last 3 weeks.yet the excuse is that fox doesn't have any faith in himHilarious!

Paladin
01-02-2012, 08:25 AM
Elway was making mistakes that were correctable. I have seen little evidence that Tebow can correct his flaws. They are far worse than what Elway was working with.

It's going to be entertaining in a couple of years when Tebow is out of the league to watch you make up stories and stats about how every team treated him wrong.

All the early critiques of TEBOW were on display yesterday. His play was crap compared to Cam, for example. And Cam was one of those "Great College Atheletes". TEBOWS's game has been beaten to the ground. The Broncos need to find a real QB for next year. I would not mind if they kept TEBOW around for the occassional novelty play, but as a starter, he is finished after next week's slaughter......

McDman
01-02-2012, 08:35 AM
All the early critiques of TEBOW were on display yesterday. His play was crap compared to Cam, for example. And Cam was one of those "Great College Atheletes". TEBOWS's game has been beaten to the ground. The Broncos need to find a real QB for next year. I would not mind if they kept TEBOW around for the occassional novelty play, but as a starter, he is finished after next week's slaughter......

I think we give him one more year as well, but if we get someone else he has to go. Absolutely no way could we expect the new QB to succeed with the Tebow circus in town.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:38 AM
Elway was making mistakes that were correctable. I have seen little evidence that Tebow can correct his flaws. They are far worse than what Elway was working with.

It's going to be entertaining in a couple of years when Tebow is out of the league to watch you make up stories and stats about how every team treated him wrong.


Tebow didn't make those mistakes until crappy NFL coaches got a hold of him...

They have the same mentality ad Fox - fit Tebow into a cookie cutter mold... it's why Fox has zero championships in his career..

Elway could never make one of the worst rushing game sin the NFL into one of the best as Tebow did.. Imagine if the Broncos didn't lose their best receiver because of Fox's rep too...

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:41 AM
All the early critiques of TEBOW were on display yesterday. His play was crap compared to Cam, for example. And Cam was one of those "Great College Atheletes". TEBOWS's game has been beaten to the ground. The Broncos need to find a real QB for next year. I would not mind if they kept TEBOW around for the occassional novelty play, but as a starter, he is finished after next week's slaughter......

Give Tebow cam's offense and see how he does.. cam couldn't even win games until Tebow showed him how. Then you see cam starting to play like Tebow.. fewer passing stats more running stats and more wins,.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:43 AM
Other than bashing people who are critical of Tebow I've yet to see you express an explanation for why he's sucked so bad the last 3 weeks. Didn't you expect better out of our starting QB yesterday? Was that performance acceptable to you? Did you see something that gave you reason to believe this kid can be an NFL QB? Looking forward to your thoughtful response...

Have you ever seen a rookie Qb with the bullseye Tebow has and such a crap offense and coach?

It's honestly as if the Broncos coaches are TRYING to help opposing defenses.

I still can;t comprehend that Fox gets paid millions of dollars for putting that offense out on display..

That effing flea flicker.. are ju kidding me..

TonyR
01-02-2012, 08:45 AM
Have you ever seen a rookie Qb with the bullseye Tebow has and such a crap offense...

It's a "crap offense" primarily because that's all Tebow can competently execute, and yesterday he couldn't even do that. Did you watch the game?

McDman
01-02-2012, 08:51 AM
Give Tebow cam's offense and see how he does.. cam couldn't even win games until Tebow showed him how. Then you see cam starting to play like Tebow.. fewer passing stats more running stats and more wins,.

You are absolutely insane.

orinjkrush
01-02-2012, 08:51 AM
Tebow has lost his mojoe. You can see it in his eyes. He lost it. Nobody lost it for him.

If he can't get it back, then draft a QB in the first two rounds, and let the competition begin. Don't throw him away unless you can get GREAT value for him. And don't give him to a frickin KC!!!

and IMHO, its the mental part of the game not the physical that is limiting him.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:56 AM
It's a "crap offense" primarily because that's all Tebow can competently execute, and yesterday he couldn't even do that. Did you watch the game?

Yeah.. I wacthed TEbow make the run game look unstoppable at his own expense..

Did you see Orton on the Brocnos comapred to on the Chiefs? Orton had Lloyd too and Tebow doesn't...

Orton had nowhere near the bullseye Tebow does as well. Tebow has maybe the biggest bullseye of any player ever... and probably the least help form his coaches too..

Go look at the numbers thread where DelHomme had the exact same numbers as Tebow.. wake up!

The more important the games get the worse Fox's coaching gets..

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 08:58 AM
You are absolutely insane.

That's what they said when I said Tebow could lead this team to the playoffs and outplay Orton.. put Tebow on the Chiefs he would outplay him there too.. it's a better team.. better D coach now too..

BroncoBeavis
01-02-2012, 09:04 AM
Tebow has lost his mojoe. You can see it in his eyes. He lost it. Nobody lost it for him.

If he can't get it back, then draft a QB in the first two rounds, and let the competition begin. Don't throw him away unless you can get GREAT value for him. And don't give him to a frickin KC!!!

and IMHO, its the mental part of the game not the physical that is limiting him.

Not sure how basically a rookie can 'lose his mojoe'

He looks confused at times. But that shouldn't surprise anyone.

Circle Orange
01-02-2012, 09:04 AM
Good point.. Tebow had a much better college career than Elway and this is a different era. Elway probably wouldn't have even survived in this era with his poor skills and mediocre athleticism.

Oh, you silly thing, you. Drinking + posting = Lunacy http://scosoft.com/s/k/6d39bd6b.gif


Espn reports that Brady Quinn supporters are now blogging and popping out of the woodwork, saying get rid of Tebow. You can bet these are the same clowns who said he was the future two months ago and that "haters hate."

Gotta tell you, this is one gloomy team for one that's going to the playoffs. But players aren't stupid, they know the deal. Champ was on point and I appreciated his honesty. This division title feels more like a booby prize. The Vegas line on Pittsburgh is -8. So that's really 11 points (plus home field).

I was less than impressed with Orton's so called "revenge". He did nothing to make any bronco fan regret losing him.

Vine
01-02-2012, 09:08 AM
It's total sabotage. Even some of the Tebow supporters are turning away. As a Tebow supporter, I cannot stomach the idea of going into next season with Tebow as the starting qb with this same **** offense. I think the effect its having on me is what EFX totally wants.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 09:12 AM
27.3: Tim Tebow’s completion percentage Sunday, the lowest for any quarterback with at least 20 attempts in a game (per Pro-Football-Reference.com) since Carolina’s Jake Delhomme completed only seven of 27 passes for a touchdown and four interceptions at Oakland on Nov. 9, 2008.

Vine
01-02-2012, 09:14 AM
I think we give him one more year as well, but if we get someone else he has to go. Absolutely no way could we expect the new QB to succeed with the Tebow circus in town.

No way giving Tebow another year with McCoy as OC.

Tebow-McCoy > McCoy+Different QB > McCoy+Tebow

orinjkrush
01-02-2012, 09:16 AM
don't you think McCoy and Fox are connected at the hip?

theAPAOps5
01-02-2012, 09:38 AM
Give the kid a break. He's still a rookie.

Elway looked as bad or worse his first year.

He is a two year player now. Why people say he is a rookie is beyond me. What is next year then? The special rookie2 year?

Pontius Pirate
01-02-2012, 09:38 AM
I am SHOCKED that Tim Tebow is a gimmick QB who defenses have pretty quickly figured out. How did this happen? I thought running an option, with a QB who can't throw, would be unstoppable?

dsmoot
01-02-2012, 09:39 AM
He is a two year player now. Why people say he is a rookie is beyond me. What is next year then? The special rookie2 year? He is a QB with 14 games under his belt. He is completing his rookie year. QB's don't develop watching per John Elway.

Br0nc0Buster
01-02-2012, 09:41 AM
I am SHOCKED that Tim Tebow is a gimmick QB who defenses have pretty quickly figured out. How did this happen? I thought running an option, with a QB who can't throw, would be unstoppable?

defenses decided to stop measuring him by stats, thats what happened

theAPAOps5
01-02-2012, 09:41 AM
He is a QB with 14 games under his belt. He is completing his rookie year. QB's don't develop watching per John Elway.

No he was on the team last year, he has 32 games under his belt. Stop making up excuses.

Edit:
Doesn't mean anything by the way. Just hate that people try to call him a rookie. He is a 2nd year player. He should be the starter going into camp after a full offseason. If he still sucks like he did these last two games he should be cut.

elsid13
01-02-2012, 09:56 AM
He is a two year player now. Why people say he is a rookie is beyond me. What is next year then? The special rookie2 year?

You right, it drives me crazy when folks post he is rookie. He's not. Tebow has been through full training camp, OTA and professional season. He know what expected of PRO QB, how to watch film, the speed of the game and how to workout. I doubt we see any improvement from this season to the next because nothing going to change with having OTA or workout at Dove Valley vs somewhere else.

2KBack
01-02-2012, 09:56 AM
27.3: Tim Tebow’s completion percentage Sunday, the lowest for any quarterback with at least 20 attempts in a game (per Pro-Football-Reference.com) since Carolina’s Jake Delhomme completed only seven of 27 passes for a touchdown and four interceptions at Oakland on Nov. 9, 2008.

They both suck

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 09:56 AM
Have you ever seen a rookie Qb with the bullseye Tebow has and such a crap offense and coach?

It's honestly as if the Broncos coaches are TRYING to help opposing defenses.

I still can;t comprehend that Fox gets paid millions of dollars for putting that offense out on display..

That effing flea flicker.. are ju kidding me..

What offense should Denver run with tebow?

Oh the flea flicker do u mean the one with decker wide open that tebow didn't see let alone throw it to him within 10 yds? Face it the pass rush carried this team along with lucky ass breaks. The pass rush and breaks are none existent last 3 weeks. Team is was winning despite horrible qb play.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 09:59 AM
Yeah.. let's never run a pass play then expect Tebow to hit one down field.. what LOOKS open isn't necessarily open either...

27.3: Tim Tebow’s completion percentage Sunday, the lowest for any quarterback with at least 20 attempts in a game (per Pro-Football-Reference.com) since Carolina’s Jake Delhomme completed only seven of 27 passes for a touchdown and four interceptions at Oakland on Nov. 9, 2008.

You think it's just a coincidence Fox;s QBs always put up record low numbers? The guy is either the worst coach in NFL history or he just can't stand Qbs... or maybe it's all just a gimmick to make his d coahcing look great...

Vine
01-02-2012, 10:00 AM
What offense should Denver run with tebow?



45% running

45% passing after properly coached up

10% Read-Option to force NFL teams to have to think about and gameplan.


Production would no longer be an issue with this type of offense.

2KBack
01-02-2012, 10:09 AM
Yeah.. let's never run a pass play then expect Tebow to hit one down field.. what LOOKS open isn't necessarily open either...



You think it's just a coincidence Fox;s QBs always put up record low numbers? The guy is either the worst coach in NFL history or he just can't stand Qbs... or maybe it's all just a gimmick to make his d coahcing look great...

Delhomme made the pro-bowl with Fox, and never completed fewer than 55% of his passes in a season and usually was around 60%....so try again. Or maybe do some research for yourself...it can be enlightening.

barryr
01-02-2012, 10:10 AM
Delhomme made the pro-bowl with Fox, and never completed fewer than 55% of his passes in a season and usually was around 60%....so try again. Or maybe do some research for yourself...it can be enlightening.

Well, he usually had a very good running game in Carolina, a Steve Smith open for long bombs or for the big plays needed, and a very good defense to keep games close. Was there ever a sophisticated type offense used? Debatable.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Delhomme made the pro-bowl with Fox, and never completed fewer than 55% of his passes in a season and usually was around 60%....so try again. Or maybe do some research for yourself...it can be enlightening.

DelHomme didn't make his run game the best in the NFL.. especially a weak run game.

And stats are deceptive.. Tebow is very efficient but his numbers don't show it.

Look at Vince Young's stats.. he had bad stats too but he won games just like Tebow. Now imagine Vince Young in Fox's crap offense..

I bet DelHomme had a better offense around him too.

2KBack
01-02-2012, 10:22 AM
Well, he usually had a very good running game in Carolina, a Steve Smith open for long bombs or for the big plays needed, and a very good defense to keep games close. Was there ever a sophisticated type offense used? Debatable.

Who needs a sophisticated offense. In our last two games the defense gave up 19 and 7 points. Denver rushed for 133 and 216 yards (I'm willing to throw out the NE game a bit as the defense did fall flat, it's worth mentioning that Denver still ran for 252 yards). We've all seen the breakdowns, the running game has allowed for receivers to get open, and yes there have been drops, but I've lost count of how many times I've screams for Tebow to throw the checkdown as the back had 10+ yards of open space. I've been able to predict the incompletes to the right side, because he can't hit out routes to the right. These are not products of the offense...the offense has gotten the guys open....Tim has not hit the guys. I buy that the kid has something special about him as a person and maybe as an athlete, but he is not an NFL QB yet, and I cam very VERY concerned that he may not be.

2KBack
01-02-2012, 10:25 AM
DelHomme didn't make his run game the best in the NFL.. especially a weak run game.

And stats are deceptive.. Tebow is very efficient but his numbers don't show it.

Look at Vince Young's stats.. he had bad stats too but he won games just like Tebow. Now imagine Vince Young in Fox's crap offense..

I bet DelHomme had a better offense around him too.

Oh...so now stats are deceptive? I thought we were supposed to ignore how crappy Tebow looked and just look at the final stats right? Or we are supposed to look at how favorable his stats are compared to young Elway. Now that the stats are starting to reflect the performance we need to remember the stats are deceptive.

that's rational

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 10:27 AM
again.. what you just don't understand is that if Fox opens the offense up.. whether it is with Tebow or with any other QB.. then the Broncos defense will suffer..

so if you have Tebow passing more and running less then the Brocnos would score more but so would the other team.. you end up in the same place but just with slightly better numbers.. like when Orton was QB.

Tebow just masked the teams problems but the problems are still there. at least Tebow got some decent experience this season instead of another completely wasted season with Orton.

barryr
01-02-2012, 10:28 AM
Who needs a sophisticated offense. In our last two games the defense gave up 19 and 7 points. Denver rushed for 133 and 216 yards (I'm willing to throw out the NE game a bit as the defense did fall flat, it's worth mentioning that Denver still ran for 252 yards). We've all seen the breakdowns, the running game has allowed for receivers to get open, and yes there have been drops, but I've lost count of how many times I've screams for Tebow to throw the checkdown as the back had 10+ yards of open space. I've been able to predict the incompletes to the right side, because he can't hit out routes to the right. These are not products of the offense...the offense has gotten the guys open....Tim has not hit the guys. I buy that the kid has something special about him as a person and maybe as an athlete, but he is not an NFL QB yet, and I cam very VERY concerned that he may not be.

There have been many drops and let's don't forget, other than Lloyd, what WR on this team has been making big plays the last couple of years? No question Tebow has a lot to prove and improve, but other than a HOF QB, I doubt we'd see any other QB putting up great stats. Orton showed that.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 10:33 AM
45% running

45% passing after properly coached up

10% Read-Option to force NFL teams to have to think about and gameplan.


Production would no longer be an issue with this type of offense.

I wished we would of ran that offense all year with Tebow then we could just draft Luck and be done with this BS.

2KBack
01-02-2012, 10:35 AM
There have been many drops and let's don't forget, other than Lloyd, what WR on this team has been making big plays the last couple of years? No question Tebow has a lot to prove and improve, but other than a HOF QB, I doubt we'd see any other QB putting up great stats. Orton showed that.

I mentioned the drops....and I don't put those on Tebow. I do put it on him when he ignores the open man, runs backwards and gets sacked. I put the 13 fumbles this season on him. I blame him for the throws in the dirt, the throws high and behind, the poor/slow reads. I do not blame him for the infuriatingly obvious run calls...he doesn't make the gameplan. I only blame him for the stuff that it his fault, which is making the plays when they are there to be made. He has not done that for the vast majority of the season. We pulled some **** out of our ass, and that was fun....but I've said it before....we did that in 2009 too.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 10:36 AM
again.. what you just don't understand is that if Fox opens the offense up.. whether it is with Tebow or with any other QB.. then the Broncos defense will suffer..

Your right there the D would be on the field with all the 3 and outs that burn no clock.

Vine
01-02-2012, 10:39 AM
I wished we would of ran that offense all year with Tebow then we could just draft Luck and be done with this BS.

I agree 100%. I could fully accept that Tebow really does suck if given a legitimate chance to succeed, and be all aboard the train for a #1 draft pick qb next year.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 10:43 AM
What the heck are you talking about? Hilarious!

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=98645

You were sucking OU wang just like every year that they were the best team in the country. SEC sucks big 12 the best for 200 posts. OU chokes and no posting for a long time for you. I don't want to get into this with you but yes you talk the talk but dissappear when you are wrong. Do the Mavs outside of last year ring a bell?

Play2win
01-02-2012, 10:49 AM
Tebow has shat the bed just as bad as Orton ever did.

Mountain Bronco
01-02-2012, 11:19 AM
Tebow has looked awful, pathetically awful these past two weeks. Yes, he is a rookie still in games played so I am willing to let him progress, but the regression has been really bad and it can't continue. I want Tim to succeed as I love rooting for a guy like that and while the jury is still out on Tim Tebow, people need to stop with the excuses and judge the guy as a QB, not as anything else. That judgment of the last 2 weeks is simply a big F. The fan boys of Tebow are really unbelievable and part of the reason I don't frequent this or any other broncos board as much.

Tebow tying Elway into a pretzel is hilarious. John owns Tebows ass and always will. Long live the Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 11:22 AM
Just remember.. Tebow looked awful in the wins too. Looks can be very deceiving. People forget the Broncos are the best running team in the NFL AND that running helps the defense tremendously.. especially this defense full of aging stars...

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 11:24 AM
Tebow has shat the bed just as bad as Orton ever did.

Orton would never make it through this season healthy.. and he wouldn't make this team the best running team in the NFL. Do you realize running wins playoff games?

And the reason the Broncos d looks so good is because of Tebow making the run game so good protecting the D...

Spider
01-02-2012, 11:33 AM
Tebow has looked awful, pathetically awful these past two weeks. Yes, he is a rookie still in games played so I am willing to let him progress, but the regression has been really bad and it can't continue. I want Tim to succeed as I love rooting for a guy like that and while the jury is still out on Tim Tebow, people need to stop with the excuses and judge the guy as a QB, not as anything else. That judgment of the last 2 weeks is simply a big F. The fan boys of Tebow are really unbelievable and part of the reason I don't frequent this or any other broncos board as much.

Tebow tying Elway into a pretzel is hilarious. John owns Tebows ass and always will. Long live the Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!
Teebs was a Rookie last year

Hulamau
01-02-2012, 11:36 AM
So why does Tebow have better stats than Elway in their first seasons?

And Elway was nowhere near Tebow athletically... in the 80s he might have been athletic but not now. Tebow would have tied Elway into a pretzel..

Its true the one true benefit and silver-lining if Tim doenst make it here is the clearing out of such excess mindless drivel that has infected the mane this year ... not that there wasn't always an element here but its gotten way out of hand with Tebow-World .. and I like Tim and hope he can pull it all together in the offseason.

If he really shiatts the bed again this weekend in the playoffs though, we MUST go after a solid competition for him at QB that can freaking pass the ball with better consistency.

There is simply no reason he should be this far behind in understanding defenses, not locking on so hard to one WR and holding the ball so damn long at the end of his second year! Not to mention his continued 'aiming' like he is throwing darts and thus over and undershooting his target consistently and often throwing the ball way too hard with little touch on it.

Tim has a lot of great assets, and a handful of critical failures and handicaps too so far that if not substantially corrected Immediately this offseason will spell his doom in this league by this time next year.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 11:44 AM
Hey Hulamau.. were you predicting Tebow would lead this team to the playoffs?

All those mistakes you point to a a product of this awful offense. Tebow overcame them with his ability when no one else could.. especially not a conventional pocket passer.

His play is what has helped the defense, too. He made the Brocnos go from one of the worst running team to the best in the league. Without that running game protecting the geriatric D they fall apart.

dsmoot
01-02-2012, 12:43 PM
No he was on the team last year, he has 32 games under his belt. Stop making up excuses.

Edit:
Doesn't mean anything by the way. Just hate that people try to call him a rookie. He is a 2nd year player. He should be the starter going into camp after a full offseason. If he still sucks like he did these last two games he should be cut.


I didn't take it personally and I wasn't making excuses. I was stating facts. Other than a situational goal line situation. He has played in 14 games, period. He had two training camps. No regular season reps until after Orton was pulled. He essentially has one yr of playing time against real live opponents where he wasn't wearing a red jersey. I also repeated what Elway has said about standing on the sideline - it is minimal experience because the real learning occurs when someone is about to bust your chops, not when you are listening to the head set.

DenverBrit
01-02-2012, 12:51 PM
Hilarious!

Clownhirrim to the defense of liberal morons again! YAAAAAY!

WTF has Tebow's awful QB play got to do with politics??

Agamemnon
01-02-2012, 12:52 PM
His arm motion is not the problem. Kerry Collins and Randall Cunningham did the same thing when they threw and both played many years in the NFL and were quite productive. Reading defenses is what Tebow needs to work on and surprise, that is a weakness for every young QB.

The big problem is that we are using a passing offense that is basically the polar opposite of what he's done all his life (aside from shotgun snaps). Asking Tebow to throw out of two receiver sets constantly is a recipe for disaster. The kid is a spread QB for ****'s sake!

This is all about bad coaching, and someday while playing for another team, I have a feeling Tebow's going to expose Fox and McCoy for the brain-dead hacks they really are.

dsmoot
01-02-2012, 12:53 PM
Who needs a sophisticated offense. In our last two games the defense gave up 19 and 7 points. Denver rushed for 133 and 216 yards (I'm willing to throw out the NE game a bit as the defense did fall flat, it's worth mentioning that Denver still ran for 252 yards). We've all seen the breakdowns, the running game has allowed for receivers to get open, and yes there have been drops, but I've lost count of how many times I've screams for Tebow to throw the checkdown as the back had 10+ yards of open space. I've been able to predict the incompletes to the right side, because he can't hit out routes to the right. These are not products of the offense...the offense has gotten the guys open....Tim has not hit the guys. I buy that the kid has something special about him as a person and maybe as an athlete, but he is not an NFL QB yet, and I cam very VERY concerned that he may not be.

I don't disagree with the essence of what you are stating. I give Tim a pass on the NE game but the last two weeks have been terribly disappointing. Where we were seeing progress in his passing, he has regressed against two teams where he should have had success. I specifically agree with your last sentence. It isn't just the play calling, or receivers not getting open. Tim must take his responsibility for his performance (I am not saying that internally, he hasn't). I am also a little disappointed during the post game conferences that along with his positive comments and praises that he hasn't just said "My performance let the team down - I stunk it up and have to do better"

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 12:55 PM
The big problem is that we are using a passing offense that is basically the polar opposite of what he's done all his life (aside from shotgun snaps). Asking Tebow to throw out of two receiver sets constantly is a recipe for disaster. The kid is a spread QB for ****'s sake!

This is all about bad coaching, and someday while playing for another team, I have a feeling Tebow's going to expose Fox and McCoy for the brain-dead hacks they really are.


I wonder who gets a pink slip first the QB or the coaches ( and i am being serious) this off season should be interesting.

Vine
01-02-2012, 12:55 PM
Tebow has regressed because this is all part of EFX sabotage plan.

EFX is probably pissed that Oakland couldn't take care of business so the sabotage would be complete.

dsmoot
01-02-2012, 12:57 PM
I wonder who gets a pink slip first the QB or the coaches ( and i am being serious) this off season should be interesting.

Although I don't want to see it, I would not be surprised by a change in QB direction. Nothing would surprise me.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 12:57 PM
Tebow has regressed because this is all part of EFX sabotage plan.

EFX is probably pissed that Oakland couldn't take care of business so the sabotage would be complete.

I am not buying this statement what so ever.

Spider
01-02-2012, 12:59 PM
Although I don't want to see it, I would not be surprised by a change in QB direction. Nothing would surprise me.

at least bring another one in , I thought Teebs would be fine , but he is shaken right now I sure hope he can shake the Bills game and get back to playing

Agamemnon
01-02-2012, 01:03 PM
Tebow has regressed because this is all part of EFX sabotage plan.

EFX is probably pissed that Oakland couldn't take care of business so the sabotage would be complete.


I wouldn't say that they have actively sought to sabotage him, but for all the talk of rebuilding our offense to suit Tebow that only really ever applied to using his running ability. They have done the kid absolutely no favors in the passing game. None. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I saw them make a serious attempt at implementing Tebow's passing strengths from college. It's all just basic pro style passing (from shotgun admittedly) out of mostly two receiver sets. When we finally do line up in a spread formation, it's almost always a QB draw. It's actually laughable.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2012, 01:10 PM
I wish the lovefest would die down. He is a great guy etc but, very avg at best. Even if you get past this stuff. I doubt our FO would draft or aquire the type of players that MIGHT help him get better. Fla type skill players fast small shifty gamebreaker type players do not seem to be our type of players.

barryr
01-02-2012, 01:30 PM
The big problem is that we are using a passing offense that is basically the polar opposite of what he's done all his life (aside from shotgun snaps). Asking Tebow to throw out of two receiver sets constantly is a recipe for disaster. The kid is a spread QB for ****'s sake!

This is all about bad coaching, and someday while playing for another team, I have a feeling Tebow's going to expose Fox and McCoy for the brain-dead hacks they really are.

Agreed, and it is laughable those that wish the Broncos could draft Griffin who has been in a shotgun offense with multiple receivers as well. A team drafting him needs to employ as similar offense he had in college or he won't do so well either or at least an offense that isn't so predictable.

Jetmeck
01-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Uh, don't EVEN try and compare Tebow to Elway and no, he is not a rookie this year.

STFU you ignorant troll. Elway did suck his first year you tard and the guy you want to trash is playing on a bad team with little help from receivers or playcalling. Maybe a rational fan base would at least willing to give the guy a full season with a little help before trashing him so again **** off fool.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 01:48 PM
So why does Tebow have better stats than Elway in their first seasons?

And Elway was nowhere near Tebow athletically... in the 80s he might have been athletic but not now. Tebow would have tied Elway into a pretzel..

Using stats for argument is a Joke. Why doesn't Tebow have as good as stats as Griese? Elway wasn't a good stat QB til late in year. He just won games. Tebow's arm will never be as good as Elways and his accuracy is horrid. It was in college and it is now.

Spider
01-02-2012, 01:50 PM
STFU you ignorant troll. Elway did suck his first year you tard and the guy you want to trash is playing on a bad team with little help from receivers or playcalling. Maybe a rational fan base would at least willing to give the guy a full season with a little help before trashing him so again **** off fool.

Tebows second season.......... year 2 for crying out loud he isnt a rookie

Bronco_Beerslug
01-02-2012, 04:45 PM
STFU you ignorant troll. Elway did suck his first year you tard and the guy you want to trash is playing on a bad team with little help from receivers or playcalling. Maybe a rational fan base would at least willing to give the guy a full season with a little help before trashing him so again **** off fool.

This year is the end of the SECOND year for Tebow. We don't know if he'll be the QB next year or not.

At the end of Elway's SECOND year we were 13-3 and EVERYONE knew we had a great QB. Actually everyone pretty much knew that after his first year.
Anyone trying to compare Tebow to Elway is a complete "fool".

The article accurately points out that Tebow is nearing the end of his rope, which he is.

That said, I will be rooting for Tebow and the Broncos to beat the Steelers Sunday as I always do, and so will most Bronco fans. It's not "disloyal" to point out and talk about players who are not succeeding. And there is only one thing that counts in the NFL. See if you can figure out what that is...

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 04:48 PM
Using stats for argument is a Joke. Why doesn't Tebow have as good as stats as Griese? Elway wasn't a good stat QB til late in year. He just won games. Tebow's arm will never be as good as Elways and his accuracy is horrid. It was in college and it is now.

I was talking about wins as stats...

Tebow had a better win percentage than Rodgers a couple weeks ago.. better 4th quarter stats than all but a couple guys in the NFL. Thrown into a horrible situation too...

extralife
01-02-2012, 05:04 PM
WTF has Tebow's awful QB play got to do with politics??

you'll note epic checked out of this thread after everyone pointed out how big of a retard he is.

peacepipe
01-02-2012, 05:42 PM
DelHomme didn't make his run game the best in the NFL.. especially a weak run game.

And stats are deceptive.. Tebow is very efficient but his numbers don't show it.Look at Vince Young's stats.. he had bad stats too but he won games just like Tebow. Now imagine Vince Young in Fox's crap offense..

I bet DelHomme had a better offense around him too.yeah,my room is very clean but empty beer cans and candy wrappers laying around the room don't show it.

gunns
01-02-2012, 06:09 PM
I was talking about wins as stats...

Tebow had a better win percentage than Rodgers a couple weeks ago.. better 4th quarter stats than all but a couple guys in the NFL. Thrown into a horrible situation too...

Yeah, too bad there are 3 other quarters.

Matt Ryan has the highest win percentage among active QB's. Flacco is second. And I don't want either one of them either.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 06:11 PM
Yeah, too bad there are 3 other quarters.

Matt Ryan has the highest win percentage among active QB's. Flacco is second. And I don't want either one of them either.



Ohhhh boy i had a good laugh at that one.

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 06:19 PM
Yeah, too bad there are 3 other quarters.

Matt Ryan has the highest win percentage among active QB's. Flacco is second. And I don't want either one of them either.

So you are saying you can win and still not be a good QB?

Yet that doesn't apply to Elway who is supposedly some infallible deity.. nice logic..

Maybe you should go back to the drawing board...

Mouth
01-02-2012, 06:22 PM
So you are saying you can win and still not be a good QB?

Yet that doesn't apply to Elway who is supposedly some infallible deity.. nice logic..

Maybe you should go back to the drawing board...

Actually, I think what he's saying is that if you win you are a bad QB? It's kinda like the business world. If you're not losing money you are obviously not trying hard enough.
</sarcasm>

Don't badmouth Elway. I am a TT supporter, but the Duke is the best thing to ever happen to this team. You can also gain the most yards, and give up the least and still only be 9-7. The only statistic that means anything is wins and losses.

Mouth

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 06:22 PM
yeah,my room is very clean but empty beer cans and candy wrappers laying around the room don't show it.

They don't.. for example people would say that Tebow had no impact on this last game.. yet his ability to run opened everything ip for his runners.. they broke a record for rush yards in this last game. Tebow's passing also opens the run game... if he couldn't pass that wouldn't be the case.. but Tebow's impact is also missed because Fox plays such a methodical predictable style. This helps the defense.. Fox wouldn't be able to play that style if Tebow couldn't run so well. That running and passing ability got the Broncos into the playoffs.. and I don't know if any other Qb could have done that with the weaknesses on this team that he covered up. But people assume it's the team and not him.. they also wonder why he couldn't do it for ever.. it was a miracle he did it at all..

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 06:24 PM
Actually, I think what he's saying is that if you win you are a bad QB? It's kinda like the business world. If you're not losing money you are obviously not trying hard enough.
</sarcasm>

Don't badmouth Elway. I am a TT supporter, but the Duke is the best thing to ever happen to this team. You can also gain the most yards, and give up the least and still only be 9-7. The only statistic that means anything is wins and losses.

Mouth

I am not bad mouthing Elway as a player.. I am just saying that he wasn't always a god... just like he isn't one now as an executive. Jordan was maybe the greatest athlete EVER.. and he stinks at picking talent.

extralife
01-02-2012, 06:32 PM
They don't.. for example people would say that Tebow had no impact on this last game.

three points. gifted.

oubronco
01-02-2012, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by MacGruder http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3443516#post3443516)
They don't.. for example people would say that Tebow had no impact on this last game.


He had a very big impact that's why they lost

maven
01-02-2012, 06:49 PM
You never know. Maybe Big Ben gets knocked out and Tebow saves the day and Denver wins.

gunns
01-02-2012, 07:08 PM
So you are saying you can win and still not be a good QB?

Yet that doesn't apply to Elway who is supposedly some infallible deity.. nice logic..

Maybe you should go back to the drawing board...

What I'm saying is that comparing Rodgers and Tebow's winning percentage doesn't mean ANYTHING. For one thing the more games played makes a difference in that winning percentage. Comparing Rodgers 62 games to Tebows, I'm going to assume before the 3 losses, 11 doesn't tell you jack about either QB.

gunns
01-02-2012, 07:09 PM
You never know. Maybe Big Ben gets knocked out and Tebow saves the day and Denver wins.

Big Ben isn't the problem.

RaiderH8r
01-02-2012, 07:34 PM
How many starts do the other qb's in the playoffs have? Seriously curious here. I know I haven't been paying attention but it seems I missed theatre where we came into the season picked to win the division. Or the part where we were expected to win 10 games this season. I missed all of that. I have the impression that we have a guy in year 1.5 of his development under center with no offseason with the knew coaching staff under his belt routinely asked to convert 3rd and 7+ after the run, run, run, run, pass punt. FFS. We have a rebuilding club going to the playoffs. White people problems you whining ****s. STFU and take some small joy you miserable twats.

McDman
01-02-2012, 07:49 PM
So you are saying you can win and still not be a good QB?

Yet that doesn't apply to Elway who is supposedly some infallible deity.. nice logic..

Maybe you should go back to the drawing board...

Delhomme was 56-40. You keep running in circles with your BS arguments.

DENVERDUI55
01-02-2012, 07:51 PM
So you are saying you can win and still not be a good QB?

Yet that doesn't apply to Elway who is supposedly some infallible deity.. nice logic..

Maybe you should go back to the drawing board...

What about Romo? He has amazing stats but struggles to win.

oubronco
01-02-2012, 07:52 PM
What about Romo? He has amazing stats but struggles to win.

Hilarious!

Blueflame
01-02-2012, 08:42 PM
So just when do we consider an NFL player to "cross over" from being "a rookie"? Does he have to start 16 full games? Or is it "getting playing time" in 16 games? Such hair-splitting seems silly.

From Tebow's own nfl.com profile, the answer's pretty clear; I've even highlighted the important parts in bright yellow for those who want to argue that he's still a rookie.

(oh... and if he were "a rookie" then wouldn't his name come up in discussions about the OROY?)

Mouth
01-02-2012, 08:47 PM
troll stuff

I'm glad we're down to arguing how little game exp. TT has.

Mouth

TailgateNut
01-02-2012, 08:49 PM
So just when do we consider an NFL player to "cross over" from being "a rookie"? Does he have to start 16 full games? Or is it "getting playing time" in 16 games? Such hair-splitting seems silly.

From Tebow's own nfl.com profile, the answer's pretty clear; I've even highlighted the important parts in bright yellow for those who want to argue that he's still a rookie.

(oh... and if he were "a rookie" then wouldn't his name come up in discussions about the OROY?)


awesome completion % :yayaya:(but he's got a Heisman,was a Gator and can run the ball)Hilarious!

Blueflame
01-02-2012, 08:52 PM
I'm glad we're down to arguing how little game exp. TT has.

Mouth

Why doesn't "young QB with little experience as a starter" work? Why do people have to stretch the truth to its breaking point (read: lie) to try to claim a sophomore player is in fact a rookie?

Mouth
01-02-2012, 08:57 PM
Why doesn't "young QB with little experience as a starter" work? Why do people have to stretch the truth to its breaking point (read: lie) to try to claim a sophomore player is in fact a rookie?

I totally agree with you here. I'm just astonished that THIS is what people are making a big deal about. Somehow through this entire process we have missed the fact that we have a very young QB starting a playoff game at home. I'm certainly hope that people aren't expecting the playoffs every season. I don't recall ANY player that has been to the playoffs in every season that they started. I mean seriously. How many QB's out of every QB that has ever started in the NFL have made the playoffs in their 1st or second season?

Mouth

HAT
01-02-2012, 09:04 PM
So just when do we consider an NFL player to "cross over" from being "a rookie"? Does he have to start 16 full games? Or is it "getting playing time" in 16 games? Such hair-splitting seems silly.



I can't remember what thread but I actually saw someone claim that Tebow will 'basically' be a rookie next year. Hilarious!

Blueflame
01-02-2012, 09:05 PM
I totally agree with you here. I'm just astonished that THIS is what people are making a big deal about. Somehow through this entire process we have missed the fact that we have a very young QB starting a playoff game at home. I'm certainly hope that people aren't expecting the playoffs every season. I don't recall ANY player that has been to the playoffs in every season that they started. I mean seriously. How many QB's out of every QB that has ever started in the NFL have made the playoffs in their 1st or second season?

Mouth

Occasional struggles and/or even enough bad games to constitute a "slump" are not unheard-of for young players. Sure, it's "semantics" but as a parent, I sometimes tend to have little patience with "playing fast and loose" with facts. :)

There are plenty of valid reasons why Tebow's been struggling... but "being a rookie" isn't one of them.

Blueflame
01-02-2012, 09:06 PM
I can't remember what thread but I actually saw someone claim that Tebow will 'basically' be a rookie next year. Hilarious!

Trying to claim that a third-year player "is a rookie" is downright ridiculous.

Mouth
01-02-2012, 09:07 PM
Occasional struggles and/or even enough bad games to constitute a "slump" are not unheard-of for young players. Sure, it's "semantics" but as a parent, I sometimes tend to have little patience with "playing fast and loose" with facts. :)

There are plenty of valid reasons why Tebow's been struggling... but "being a rookie" isn't one of them.

I think that calling him basically a rookie (this year) isn't that far of a stretch. That being said, I think we are both arguing the same point lol

Mouth

Blueflame
01-02-2012, 09:13 PM
I think that calling him basically a rookie (this year) isn't that far of a stretch. That being said, I think we are both arguing the same point lol

Mouth

Seems like we are in agreement. I just prefer the term "relatively-inexperienced QB" over "rookie QB" (some have been omitting the qualifier "basically") because it is technically a lie to say Tebow "is a rookie" at any time after the 2010 season ended.

TDmvp
01-02-2012, 09:15 PM
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1003/semantics-double-entendres-can-really-f0ck-you-up-beaver-demotivational-poster-1268906073.jpg

:angel:

Mouth
01-02-2012, 09:16 PM
Seems like we are in agreement. I just prefer the term "relatively-inexperienced QB" over "rookie QB" (some have been omitting the qualifier "basically") because it is technically a lie to say Tebow "is a rookie" at any time after the 2010 season ended.

We are in agreement then. GBGB

Mouth

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2012, 09:21 PM
What I don't get from the Tebow man crush crowd is

1. He is a rookie argument when he is in his second year.

2. Even not playing I would think he'd learn how to read D's alittle and know where to throw ball in situations with study.

3. Nobody that rips Tebow expects him to be perfect or not make mistakes or have bad games.

4. My issue sunday our O only got in scoring position 3 times ALL DAY and 1 was by KC fumble. I don't get why after 11 games he can't make a few more plays. I see alot of young guys on other teams with no exp move teams alot better then I've seen from Tebow

5. I agree with others I'd be cool with McCoy leaving. Is it McCoy's fault though Tebow won't throw the ball when guys are open that is on Tebow. He gives up tucks ball and runs imo he is feeling the pressure.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2012, 09:35 PM
I have no clue what OC could make Tebow a solid QB.

McDman
01-02-2012, 09:43 PM
I have no clue what OC could make Tebow a solid QB.

Well then, you're clearly a hater.

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2012, 09:57 PM
Well then, you're clearly a hater.

It was honest question mostly what OC would tap into Tebow's abilities the best I don't have any idea do you?

TDmvp
01-02-2012, 09:59 PM
It was honest question mostly what OC would tap into Tebow's abilities the best I don't have any idea do you?



In before someone says this guy
http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/joshmcdaniels4.jpg

NFLBRONCO
01-02-2012, 10:03 PM
In before someone says this guy
http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/joshmcdaniels4.jpg

Safe to say if this is only option. Tebow is not a fit here in Denver.

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 11:01 PM
It was honest question mostly what OC would tap into Tebow's abilities the best I don't have any idea do you?

He would have to be religious.

Archer81
01-02-2012, 11:03 PM
Jon Gruden. But he wont leave the booth to become a coordinator.


:Broncos:

MacGruder
01-02-2012, 11:05 PM
What I don't get from the Tebow man crush crowd is

1. He is a rookie argument when he is in his second year.

So because someone is crazy enough to think a guy who got the Bronvos in the playoffs could be a great QB they have a man crush? Ok..

He's still a rookie because he hadn't started a full season. NFL people will tell you the same thing.. I mean unless he was like a 4 year backup or something.

2. Even not playing I would think he'd learn how to read D's alittle and know where to throw ball in situations with study.

Tebow never played in a pro style offense and has had no training camp or OTA as starter... he needs to learn how to play in a pro style offense by doing it. You can learn all the mental aspect but it still isn't going to translate until you actually do it. Having such a poor offense around him doesn't help in that regard.... You can't learn if you don't have the tools to make the offense function. But it's better than wasting another year on Orton.

3. Nobody that rips Tebow expects him to be perfect or not make mistakes or have bad games.

But they are overly critical.. especially in Fox's offense which makes all Qbs look terrible. Especially Tebow because he can dominate even with poor stats because of his running ability.

4. My issue sunday our O only got in scoring position 3 times ALL DAY and 1 was by KC fumble. I don't get why after 11 games he can't make a few more plays. I see alot of young guys on other teams with no exp move teams alot better then I've seen from Tebow

It's because Fox has a certain system that doesn't rely on offense.. his system is geared so that offense is really just there to support the defense. Tebow making the run game so great is especially useful in this way.. so Fox has such a great crutch he could care less about passing. Again.. the only other guy to have stats as bad as Tebow was Del Homme who was coached by Fox.. that should tell you who is responsible for this.. Its his system.

5. I agree with others I'd be cool with McCoy leaving. Is it McCoy's fault though Tebow won't throw the ball when guys are open that is on Tebow. He gives up tucks ball and runs imo he is feeling the pressure.

Yes it's on them.. because they haven't let him throw the ball since he was made starter.. he dominated at times even in spite of them not letting him pass. You can only be so predictable for so long until teams figure you out.

The real person to blame is Orton.. or who ever chose him over Tebow. If Tebow had been starter early in the season they could have let him pass a few games and still lost them and it would have benefited him now when he needs that passing experience. He could have had a better rapport with his teammates too.

Not letting Tebow pass hasn't just hurt him.. it's also hurt his receivers. All of them could be playing better now if they were developed properly in the off season and all through the season. starting Orton over Tebow was just another example of Fox conservative approach preventing the Broncos from any real chance of success.

Bronco_Beerslug
01-03-2012, 06:07 AM
He's still a rookie because he hadn't started a full season. NFL people will tell you the same thing.. I mean unless he was like a 4 year backup or something.

No, "NFL people" will tell you he just finished his SECOND year (regular season), which he did. So will any knowledgeable NFL fans.

As for the 4 year backup thing I doubt seriously he will last that long as a starting or backup QB in NFL unless something miraculous happens in his near future.

Did you watch A. Luck throwing those darts, short, long and everything in between last night? The Colts are going to probably have another HOF winning QB for years to come and they and everyone else in the NFL knows it.

Blueflame
01-03-2012, 06:50 AM
No, "NFL people" will tell you he just finished his SECOND year (regular season), which he did. So will any knowledgeable NFL fans.

As for the 4 year backup thing I doubt seriously he will last that long as a starting or backup QB in NFL unless something miraculous happens in his near future.

Did you watch A. Luck throwing those darts, short, long and everything in between last night? The Colts are going to probably have another HOF winning QB for years to come and they and everyone else in the NFL knows it.

It's probably safe to assume that nfl.com = "NFL people"... and nfl.com lists Tebow as a second-year player. Not a rookie.

TonyR
01-03-2012, 07:04 AM
I have no clue what OC could make Tebow a solid QB.

I don't think anyone could unless and until his passing ability massively improves. And I'm fairly convinced that it never will improve enough to be a regular NFL starter.

gunns
01-03-2012, 07:53 AM
He's still a rookie because he hadn't started a full season. NFL people will tell you the same thing.. I mean unless he was like a 4 year backup or something.



Really? And they will tell you the time limit is 4 years, then they aren't called a rookie eh?

Tebow never played in a pro style offense and has had no training camp or OTA as starter... he needs to learn how to play in a pro style offense by doing it. You can learn all the mental aspect but it still isn't going to translate until you actually do it. Having such a poor offense around him doesn't help in that regard.... You can't learn if you don't have the tools to make the offense function. But it's better than wasting another year on Orton.


Ok, this is my favorite by far. First we have that Tebow has never played in a pro style offense. Mac, I think that's what he has been doing. Regardless of what you think of the Broncos, they are in the pros. But I think you realized that and then jumped immediately to your statement that he plays in a poor offense and that he can't make it work without the tools. LOL! He has what every other QB has. Maybe he needs to make it work.

Finally Mac, they have let him pass. If you didn't fall asleep by the time he threw it you'd probably know that at least half of them didn't do what they were supposed to. But I guess that has to do with not having the "tools" to work with. Right.

alkemical
01-03-2012, 09:32 AM
maybe Tebow got laid and his superpowers disappeared.

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 10:47 AM
maybe Tebow got laid and his superpowers disappeared.

Maybe Tebow has 14 starts under his belt and is playing like it. Maybe an offseason of working with coaches would help. Maybe a receiving corps that can run a route and catch a ball that hits him directly between the numbers would help? Matt Willis has no business even being on a roster at this point. Off you go captain skillet mits.

Right. Between. The. Numbers. Tha hell man?

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 10:48 AM
maybe Tebow got laid and his superpowers disappeared.

I actually think it had everything to do with Michael Irvin's endorsement. God really can't have anything that Irvin endorses do well. It is morally incongruous.

edog24
01-03-2012, 10:56 AM
Maybe Tebow has 14 starts under his belt and is playing like it. Maybe an offseason of working with coaches would help. Maybe a receiving corps that can run a route and catch a ball that hits him directly between the numbers would help? Matt Willis has no business even being on a roster at this point. Off you go captain skillet mits.

Right. Between. The. Numbers. Tha hell man?

That was still an underthrown ball that the KC defender had a hand in. Plus I think every receive we have has dropped a lot of balls, I am willing to give Willis a pass on that one.

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 11:08 AM
That was still an underthrown ball that the KC defender had a hand in. Plus I think every receive we have has dropped a lot of balls, I am willing to give Willis a pass on that one.

I am sick of it. I am sick of seeing WRs on every team in the NFL make plays and catches and our guys drop balls in the mits, run poor/rounded routes, not work free, get manhandled on the line, and a litany of other **** that I don't see with anything remotely as regular as I see with our collection of slap*****.

Rule 1 as a WR is if you can touch it you can catch it. Make the f'ing play ladies. Period. Yeah, Tebow has a lot of work to do but Christ, dropping passes and getting bullied by every DB in the league isn't exactly confidence inspiring play. How many times have Decker, Willis, DT, Royal wowed you? At all this year? How many plays have they made? Straight up and got the ball on the sideline or in traffic on a third and long big time, NFL plays? How many? Not much. And that's the problem. JFC, Eddie Mac wasn't open all the time and Elway pretty much got him killed on a regular basis but the guy went and made f'ing plays. Rod Smith made plays on bad balls all the time. Our guys make bad plays out of good passes (on the rare occasion that happens) FFS these guys are dog crap and at least one of them needs to have a pile of bovine fecal matter left in his locker by Bobby Knight.

BTW, that ball hit him in the chest. Hit. Him. In. The. Chest. Tha hell does he want? If he wants this stuff gift wrapped and delivered he needs to put his pampers back on and wait for Santa. This is football, make the play.

edog24
01-03-2012, 11:16 AM
I am sick of it. I am sick of seeing WRs on every team in the NFL make plays and catches and our guys drop balls in the mits, run poor/rounded routes, not work free, get manhandled on the line, and a litany of other **** that I don't see with anything remotely as regular as I see with our collection of slap*****.

Rule 1 as a WR is if you can touch it you can catch it. Make the f'ing play ladies. Period. Yeah, Tebow has a lot of work to do but Christ, dropping passes and getting bullied by every DB in the league isn't exactly confidence inspiring play. How many times have Decker, Willis, DT, Royal wowed you? At all this year? How many plays have they made? Straight up and got the ball on the sideline or in traffic on a third and long big time, NFL plays? How many? Not much. And that's the problem. JFC, Eddie Mac wasn't open all the time and Elway pretty much got him killed on a regular basis but the guy went and made f'ing plays. Rod Smith made plays on bad balls all the time. Our guys make bad plays out of good passes (on the rare occasion that happens) FFS these guys are dog crap and at least one of them needs to have a pile of bovine fecal matter left in his locker by Bobby Knight.

BTW, that ball hit him in the chest. Hit. Him. In. The. Chest. Tha hell does he want? If he wants this stuff gift wrapped and delivered he needs to put his pampers back on and wait for Santa. This is football, make the play.

For most of our WR's I agree with you. I guess I am more willing to give Willis a pass since he is our 3rd/4th receiver, and probably would not even make the team of all the other teams in the playoffs. I get irate when our top 3 WRs continually make poor plays.

DT has shown improvement at least. Royal and Decker look like they are just out there to collect a check.

ScottXray
01-03-2012, 11:19 AM
That was still an underthrown ball that the KC defender had a hand in. Plus I think every receive we have has dropped a lot of balls, I am willing to give Willis a pass on that one.

I don't. Tebow put the ball underthrown because that is the only place that was open. Willis pulled his arms in to his body before the pass got there. That retraction of his arms is what put the ball where the defender could reach it. If he had kept his arms extended he could have kept the ball away from the defender and it never could have been touched by the defender. They showed this clearly on First take this morning and Willis just plain screwed up.

Now Willis also gets the "not much experience" excuse, but this was a drop, pure and simple. Tebow threw it perfectly.

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 11:19 AM
For most of our WR's I agree with you. I guess I am more willing to give Willis a pass since he is our 3rd/4th receiver, and probably would not even make the team of all the other teams in the playoffs. I get irate when our top 3 WRs continually make poor plays.

DT has shown improvement at least. Royal and Decker look like they are just out there to collect a check.

Exactly. DT is coming around and showing glimpses but the rest of them are slapdicks. Maybe cut Royal, or Decker but someone has to get the door in very unceremonious fashion.

Cito Pelon
01-03-2012, 11:34 AM
Maybe Tebow has 14 starts under his belt and is playing like it. Maybe an offseason of working with coaches would help. Maybe a receiving corps that can run a route and catch a ball that hits him directly between the numbers would help? Matt Willis has no business even being on a roster at this point. Off you go captain skillet mits.

Right. Between. The. Numbers. Tha hell man?

Agreed. I see 4 receivers out in routes and all of them run directly into a DB, then keep that DB right on their hip. There's no separation at all for the QB to work with.

Then there's the predictable passing situations where only two receivers are running a pattern, the RB has to pick up the blitz, and those two receivers can't beat man coverage, the DB is right on their hip.

Cito Pelon
01-03-2012, 11:41 AM
That was still an underthrown ball that the KC defender had a hand in. Plus I think every receive we have has dropped a lot of balls, I am willing to give Willis a pass on that one.

Nah, MW knew he dropped that one. You could see him grab his head as he was going down to the ground knowing he blew it. I saw a couple passes in the Buffalo game that should have been caught also, nice catchable passes.

2KBack
01-03-2012, 11:43 AM
Exactly. DT is coming around and showing glimpses but the rest of them are slap*****. Maybe cut Royal, or Decker but someone has to get the door in very unceremonious fashion.

Ah yes, of course. Tebow is given all the excuses in the world, but those young receivers need to be kicked off the team.

bombay
01-03-2012, 11:51 AM
Same start as a Bronco that Orton had. Except some of Orton's wins came more easily.

Rohirrim
01-03-2012, 11:56 AM
I saw some drops too. I also saw some passes that were ten feet from the nearest receiver.

bendog
01-03-2012, 12:26 PM
Agreed. I see 4 receivers out in routes and all of them run directly into a DB, then keep that DB right on their hip. There's no separation at all for the QB to work with.

Then there's the predictable passing situations where only two receivers are running a pattern, the RB has to pick up the blitz, and those two receivers can't beat man coverage, the DB is right on their hip.

Watch the saints, green bay or NE. The ball is throw WHILE the wr is in the db's pocket, but because the qb and the wr BOTH know the wr will make a cut, the ball is thrown before the cut, and that's what creates the seperation. Will Tebow ever learn this, and how to make reads that change the routes AFTER the snap depending upon the coverage? I just don't know. Can 6 mos of intense practice by an incredibly coachable kid make up for 6 years at least of substandard qb coaching?

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 12:38 PM
Ah yes, of course. Tebow is given all the excuses in the world, but those young receivers need to be kicked off the team.

Wide. RECEIVER. Catch the ball. That's it. When you get a shot at the ball you damn well catch it. Otherwise you are a chump. A low down, slapdick, no account chump. I catch that ball. I bet 80% of OM members catch that ball. Spider has hands like retarded seal so he drops it and popps can't let go of his walker to get two hands up on it but yeah, I bet we catch it.

I can't count the number of miles I had to run for dropping tougher catches than that during football and I guarantee, lead pipe lock, guaran-damn-tee I am not remotely alone in that.

"The DB got his hands on it" Wahhh. Get position. Catch the ball. Touch it=Catch it. Can't? Tough ****. Pack your bags Matt and enjoy your time on Ninja Warrior you idiot.

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 12:42 PM
Watch the saints, green bay or NE. The ball is throw WHILE the wr is in the db's pocket, but because the qb and the wr BOTH know the wr will make a cut, the ball is thrown before the cut, and that's what creates the seperation. Will Tebow ever learn this, and how to make reads that change the routes AFTER the snap depending upon the coverage? I just don't know. Can 6 mos of intense practice by an incredibly coachable kid make up for 6 years at least of substandard qb coaching?

That's one where Tebow has to build trust that the play is going to be there. That takes work. Lots of work...with coaches...and receivers. Work nobody got this offseason.

Seriously, McCoy needs to tell the kid in film, "I don't give two rats craps if you throw a pick here. We call this play and you see this defense throw the ball to this spot (X) and your guy will be there. If he isn't it is not your fault. Just pull the trigger within 2 seconds kid. If it is picked it is not your fault. Make it so."

But seriously, who among this collection of slapdicks and slackers at WR do you trust to make a catch on a quick slant? I'm pretty sure it hits these idiots in the hands (which they have positioned the wrong way to begin with), pops the ball straight up in the air for a pick. Again, these guys couldn't catch herpes in a Haitian whore house. DT maybe but only because he seems to be improving.

bendog
01-03-2012, 12:48 PM
He's been a gimp, but DT's made some nice catches and so have Fells and Rosario. But the fact is that Tebow cannot make simple progression reads, where the reciever runs a route that has not adjustments depending upon coverage because Tebow also cannot consistently read coverages, and certainly can't read them fast enough to be on the same page as the receivers. He makes the progression reads, but he's so slow he can't see the man when he's in a zone gap or gets seperation out of a cut.

On Sunday he missed wide open Decker for a TD on the flea flicker and was so tentative passing to an open Larson that he got Larson blown up.

It's possible he'll get better. But right now Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin couldn't make this kid look better than real bad.

Rohirrim
01-03-2012, 12:48 PM
That's one where Tebow has to build trust that the play is going to be there. That takes work. Lots of work...with coaches...and receivers. Work nobody got this offseason.

Seriously, McCoy needs to tell the kid in film, "I don't give two rats craps if you throw a pick here. We call this play and you see this defense throw the ball to this spot (X) and your guy will be there. If he isn't it is not your fault. Just pull the trigger within 2 seconds kid. If it is picked it is not your fault. Make it so."

But seriously, who among this collection of slap***** and slackers at WR do you trust to make a catch on a quick slant? I'm pretty sure it hits these idiots in the hands (which they have positioned the wrong way to begin with), pops the ball straight up in the air for a pick. Again, these guys couldn't catch herpes in a Haitian whore house. DT maybe but only because he seems to be improving.

Maybe you're being a little extreme here (for effect ;D) but you do have a point about our receiver corps. Watching Justin Blackmon of OSU yesterday I got the impression that if anybody got anywhere near a ball thrown toward him, he'd slap the **** out of them for disrespect. Our receivers certainly aren't showing that killer instinct.

RaiderH8r
01-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Maybe you're being a little extreme here (for effect ;D) but you do have a point about our receiver corps. Watching Justin Blackmon of OSU yesterday I got the impression that if anybody got anywhere near a ball thrown toward him, he'd slap the **** out of them for disrespect. Our receivers certainly aren't showing that killer instinct.

If you told me Decker and Royal had pictures of Bowlen humping goats I'd be inclined to believe you. I've seen more fight out of a six year old girl than those two. We need to send out a search party for their scrotia (that's the plural for scrotum which I just invented). They have no marbles.

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=2981631&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/2981631/no-marbles.html) GIFSoup (http://gifsoup.com/)

maven
01-03-2012, 08:23 PM
It's been a fun season, but Tebow is what I thought he will eventually be. A BUST.

OABB
01-03-2012, 11:06 PM
It's been a fun season, but Tebow is what I thought he will eventually be. A BUST.

Remember you said Lebron was a winner before you ran away like a phaggot?

I do.

HAT
01-03-2012, 11:16 PM
It's possible he'll get better. But right now Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin couldn't make this kid look better than real bad.

+1

I'm mystified by the whole Fox/Tebow argument. Why don't people see that Fox's offense sucks and Tebow makes it worse. And conversely...Tebow sucks at throwing and Fox makes him worse?

I can't remember who it was but I tried to tell some fool 2 months ago that Colston/Meachem/Henderson ain't all that. It's Drew.

You put Deck, DT & Royal on the turf in the big easy and the 'separation' problems disappear.

Mouth
01-04-2012, 07:04 AM
I think this is how the conversation goes:

Fox: Ok tim we're running a conservative gameplan, so I can't have you turning the ball over. Every drive ends with a kick.

Tim: Ok coach, I'll make sure we don't turn it over cause you're the coach and you know best.


If you want to ask a second year QB (who has no prior playing time or off-season with his receivers) to not throw int's, he's not going to let it fly hoping that his WR makes the right cut.

Mouth

Br0nc0Buster
01-04-2012, 07:54 AM
I think this is how the conversation goes:

Fox: Ok tim we're running a conservative gameplan, so I can't have you turning the ball over. Every drive ends with a kick.

Tim: Ok coach, I'll make sure we don't turn it over cause you're the coach and you know best.


If you want to ask a second year QB (who has no prior playing time or off-season with his receivers) to not throw int's, he's not going to let it fly hoping that his WR makes the right cut.

Mouth

Thats not how NFL quarterbacks think

If he throws a pick because the receiver ran the wrong route the coaches are not going to blame him
NO ONE would be upset with him if he is out there making accurate timely passes
Its his job to trust his teammates, the offense cannot function with a player who refuses to throw against man coverage

NFL QBs must throw with anticipation, Tebow does not
You cannot expect someone to scheme guys open multiple yards every play, Tebow is eventually going to have to throw in a tight window

bendog
01-04-2012, 07:59 AM
Thats not how NFL quarterbacks think

If he throws a pick because the receiver ran the wrong route the coaches are not going to blame him
Its his job to trust his teammates, the offense cannot function with a player who refuses to throw against man coverage

NFL QBs must throw with anticipation, Tebow does not
You cannot expect someone to scheme guys open multiple yards every play, Tebow is eventually going to have to throw in a tight window

And there's the windup thing. He's not adjusted his mechanics which even Gruden, who said he'd be an NFL qb, mentioned he had to do BEFORE the draft. No qb can throw in a tight window if AFTER having anticipated seperation out of a reciever's cut, he's got to drop the ball down to his hip and bring it all the way back. Two years in and he still hasn't learned to hold the freaking ball by his left ear and let it go.

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:02 AM
He's been a gimp, but DT's made some nice catches and so have Fells and Rosario. But the fact is that Tebow cannot make simple progression reads, where the reciever runs a route that has not adjustments depending upon coverage because Tebow also cannot consistently read coverages, and certainly can't read them fast enough to be on the same page as the receivers. He makes the progression reads, but he's so slow he can't see the man when he's in a zone gap or gets seperation out of a cut.

On Sunday he missed wide open Decker for a TD on the flea flicker and was so tentative passing to an open Larson that he got Larson blown up.

It's possible he'll get better. But right now Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin couldn't make this kid look better than real bad.


Why do you try breaking this stuff down? You are never even close to being right. You just continually prove that you don't understand the basics of football.

BroncoInferno
01-04-2012, 08:09 AM
If you told me Decker and Royal had pictures of Bowlen humping goats I'd be inclined to believe you. I've seen more fight out of a six year old girl than those two. We need to send out a search party for their scrotia (that's the plural for scrotum which I just invented). They have no marbles.

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=2981631&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/2981631/no-marbles.html) GIFSoup (http://gifsoup.com/)

Decker just doesn't have any chemsistry with Tebow. He had 22 catches after the first five games, a 72 catch pace. He only caught 22 the entire rest of the season. That will be something they need to work on in the offseason, but I still think Decker is a good player.

Rohirrim
01-04-2012, 08:11 AM
And there's the windup thing. He's not adjusted his mechanics which even Gruden, who said he'd be an NFL qb, mentioned he had to do BEFORE the draft. No qb can throw in a tight window if AFTER having anticipated seperation out of a reciever's cut, he's got to drop the ball down to his hip and bring it all the way back. Two years in and he still hasn't learned to hold the freaking ball by his left ear and let it go.

I'm not even sure that Tebow's main problem is mechanics. It might be more in the decision making process. Yesterday, one of the local (Denver) sportscasters was showing plays from the game to point this out. On the first one, Royal was running a crossing route about 8 yards deep and right when he comes waaay open, Tebow is looking right at him, but doesn't throw it, the gap closes, and Tebow runs with the ball. On the next play, Decker runs a double move on a skinny post and comes open, Tebow is looking at him, doesn't throw it, and gets sacked. Then the next one is another of Decker running an out and again getting wide open, but Tebow doesn't throw it and gets sacked. And there is no question that the receivers are wide open. I was watching that tape thinking, "Why the hell doesn't he throw it?" I don't have an answer.

bendog
01-04-2012, 08:25 AM
I'm not even sure that Tebow's main problem is mechanics. It might be more in the decision making process. Yesterday, one of the local (Denver) sportscasters was showing plays from the game to point this out. On the first one, Royal was running a crossing route about 8 yards deep and right when he comes waaay open, Tebow is looking right at him, but doesn't throw it, the gap closes, and Tebow runs with the ball. On the next play, Decker runs a double move on a skinny post and comes open, Tebow is looking at him, doesn't throw it, and gets sacked. Then the next one is another of Decker running an out and again getting wide open, but Tebow doesn't throw it and gets sacked. And there is no question that the receivers are wide open. I was watching that tape thinking, "Why the hell doesn't he throw it?" I don't have an answer.

IMO, that's the regression he's shown in the last three games. HE's a head case right now. He so far has not shown he can make the NFL throws. His mechanics prevent him from getting the ball out fast enough to even make the behind the should catch let alone tight/tiny gap in coverage. But, you're right. He's not even throwing when guys are wide open.

From the Paige Interview with Elway

In regard to the Pittsburgh game, Tebow and the Broncos offense must "do a better job of making plays in the passing game. It's never going to be totally pretty, but if they show us defenses with eight or nine men in the box, we've got to make some big plays like we did against Minnesota.



Read more: Woody Paige: John Elway wants Tim Tebow to "pull the trigger" in NFL playoffs - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19669652#ixzz1iVXQvxZl
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

jhns
01-04-2012, 08:31 AM
IMO, that's the regression he's shown in the last three games. HE's a head case right now. He so far has not shown he can make the NFL throws. His mechanics prevent him from getting the ball out fast enough to even make the behind the should catch let alone tight/tiny gap in coverage. But, you're right. He's not even throwing when guys are wide open.

From the Paige Interview with Elway

In regard to the Pittsburgh game, Tebow and the Broncos offense must "do a better job of making plays in the passing game. It's never going to be totally pretty, but if they show us defenses with eight or nine men in the box, we've got to make some big plays like we did against Minnesota.



Read more: Woody Paige: John Elway wants Tim Tebow to "pull the trigger" in NFL playoffs - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19669652#ixzz1iVXQvxZl
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

You do realize you are completely contradicting what this front office says, right? Again, why do you even try? You admit you don't watch games and it is clear you have listened to far too many analysts that don't know ****.

Hercules Rockefeller
01-04-2012, 08:34 AM
IMO, that's the regression he's shown in the last three games. HE's a head case right now. He so far has not shown he can make the NFL throws. His mechanics prevent him from getting the ball out fast enough to even make the behind the should catch let alone tight/tiny gap in coverage. But, you're right. He's not even throwing when guys are wide open.


I don't think it's a regression at all. I don't think he ever progressed to the point where he was making those throws in the first place. What's happened is what all the analysts said would happen and a ton of people here refused to believe could happen: Defenses adjusted and figured out how to play Tim. His running lanes aren't there anymore and teams are forcing him to stay in the pocket. If his receivers aren't "college open" he doesn't know what to do with the ball.

Rohirrim
01-04-2012, 08:36 AM
IMO, that's the regression he's shown in the last three games. HE's a head case right now. He so far has not shown he can make the NFL throws. His mechanics prevent him from getting the ball out fast enough to even make the behind the should catch let alone tight/tiny gap in coverage. But, you're right. He's not even throwing when guys are wide open.

From the Paige Interview with Elway

In regard to the Pittsburgh game, Tebow and the Broncos offense must "do a better job of making plays in the passing game. It's never going to be totally pretty, but if they show us defenses with eight or nine men in the box, we've got to make some big plays like we did against Minnesota.



Read more: Woody Paige: John Elway wants Tim Tebow to "pull the trigger" in NFL playoffs - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19669652#ixzz1iVXQvxZl
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Yep. This pretty much says it all:

"That's human nature, especially when you're young, to become more cautious," Elway said. "He had a tough week before (the Chiefs game) against Buffalo. The key thing for (Tebow) is to go out, put everything behind him, go through his progressions and pull the trigger.

"When you get into these playoff situations, he's a good enough athlete, you know what, to pull the trigger. He's obviously upset with last week. He's already got an edge to him, so he's ready to go. I like seeing the edge. Oh, yeah. I actually love it. I have full confidence he'll bounce back and have a good week."


Read more: Woody Paige: John Elway wants Tim Tebow to "pull the trigger" in NFL playoffs - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19669652#ixzz1iVZBfNrV
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

TonyR
01-04-2012, 08:37 AM
You do realize you are completely contradicting what this front office says, right? Again, why do you even try? You admit you don't watch games and it is clear you have listened to far too many analysts that don't know ****.

Are you really so stupid as to believe anything an NFL front office says? I mean, really, jhns. Are you 12? You cannot be this big of an idiot.

TonyR
01-04-2012, 08:40 AM
I don't think it's a regression at all. I don't think he ever progressed to the point where he was making those throws in the first place. What's happened is what all the analysts said would happen and a ton of people here refused to believe could happen: Defenses adjusted and figured out how to play Tim. His running lanes aren't there anymore and teams are forcing him to stay in the pocket. If his receivers aren't "college open" he doesn't know what to do with the ball.

I think this is probably very much on point. Agree. Although I do think he was more gun shy against KC because of how awful he was against Buf, to the extent you can call that "regression".

Broncbow
01-04-2012, 08:42 AM
Fox and Elway put a sabotage dampner on the vehicle scheme driving Tebows Mystic.

BroncoBeavis
01-04-2012, 08:42 AM
Yep. This pretty much says it all:

"That's human nature, especially when you're young, to become more cautious," Elway said. "He had a tough week before (the Chiefs game) against Buffalo. The key thing for (Tebow) is to go out, put everything behind him, go through his progressions and pull the trigger.

"When you get into these playoff situations, he's a good enough athlete, you know what, to pull the trigger. He's obviously upset with last week. He's already got an edge to him, so he's ready to go. I like seeing the edge. Oh, yeah. I actually love it. I have full confidence he'll bounce back and have a good week."


Read more: Woody Paige: John Elway wants Tim Tebow to "pull the trigger" in NFL playoffs - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19669652#ixzz1iVZBfNrV
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Pull the trigger. I agree with Elway's take pretty much 100%. I think I've even used those same words. Big thing is it needs to extend to the coaching staff this week. Teebs needs to pull the trigger, the coaching staff needs to put him in a gameplan that helps him do so.

bendog
01-04-2012, 08:44 AM
I don't think it's a regression at all. I don't think he ever progressed to the point where he was making those throws in the first place. What's happened is what all the analysts said would happen and a ton of people here refused to believe could happen: Defenses adjusted and figured out how to play Tim. His running lanes aren't there anymore and teams are forcing him to stay in the pocket. If his receivers aren't "college open" he doesn't know what to do with the ball.

What I was trying to say is that right now he can't even complete passes to guys who are "college open." He was making some of those passes against Minny and Chi and even NE.

Imo what happened to him was first NE. Brady lit up Den's D so bad that there was pressure to try and stay with them scoring, and Tebow just couldn't do it. Elway specifically mentioned the Minny game, and that was a shoot out, but Brady's in a class by himself in the AFC right now. Then, Tebow melted down in Buff. And aginst KC he just failed to throw to wide open guys time after time.

elsid13
01-04-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm not even sure that Tebow's main problem is mechanics. It might be more in the decision making process. Yesterday, one of the local (Denver) sportscasters was showing plays from the game to point this out. On the first one, Royal was running a crossing route about 8 yards deep and right when he comes waaay open, Tebow is looking right at him, but doesn't throw it, the gap closes, and Tebow runs with the ball. On the next play, Decker runs a double move on a skinny post and comes open, Tebow is looking at him, doesn't throw it, and gets sacked. Then the next one is another of Decker running an out and again getting wide open, but Tebow doesn't throw it and gets sacked. And there is no question that the receivers are wide open. I was watching that tape thinking, "Why the hell doesn't he throw it?" I don't have an answer.

Maybe he needs to get his eyes checked and see if he needs contacts/glasses. I am not joking because maybe he just not seeing down the field as good as he did, when he was at UF.

strafen
01-04-2012, 04:08 PM
Our losing streak began the week Tebow was on the cover of SI...

kamakazi_kal
01-04-2012, 04:31 PM
it's crazy how fickle people are.


you really thought no growing pains were going to take place and he could win every game in OT?

sheessh.

RaiderH8r
01-04-2012, 04:37 PM
Maybe he needs to get his eyes checked and see if he needs contacts/glasses. I am not joking because maybe he just not seeing down the field as good as he did, when he was at UF.

It wouldn't surprise me since this is the crack medical staff that missed Sulk Cannon's beetus diagnosis. I'm surprised they knew to splint Kuper's leg on Sunday.

Rohirrim
01-04-2012, 04:40 PM
It wouldn't surprise me since this is the crack medical staff that missed Sulk Cannon's beetus diagnosis. I'm surprised they knew to splint Kuper's leg on Sunday.

I think he did it himself. ;D

elsid13
01-04-2012, 04:46 PM
It wouldn't surprise me since this is the crack medical staff that missed Sulk Cannon's beetus diagnosis. I'm surprised they knew to splint Kuper's leg on Sunday.

A lot of time, player refuse to believe they are having vision problem. Carlos Rodger when he was in DC refuse to have his eyes check and kept on dropping INT. They made him get a vision test in SF, and suddenly he catching those INTs. London Fletcher stated on the radio here, that he heard the Rodgers is now wearing contacts.

KO5K
01-04-2012, 04:47 PM
Maybe he needs to get his eyes checked and see if he needs contacts/glasses. I am not joking because maybe he just not seeing down the field as good as he did, when he was at UF.

I think he see's them all right just like someone above said, he's just not pulling the trigger.

He's hesitating and you can't do that in the NFL. I'm sure people will have different reasons for why he's hesitating...

RaiderH8r
01-04-2012, 04:59 PM
I think he did it himself. ;D

Kuper will do anything to get Kahn's love and affection.

Rick Vaughn needed glasses too and then he became a star but it all went to his head but that happened in a ****ty sequel so it really doesn't count.

El Minion
01-04-2012, 05:02 PM
Hilarious!

Clownhirrim to the defense of liberal morons again! YAAAAAY!



Good thinking! So now if we realize that Tebow can't pass worth a **** we can simply label the passing game as "liberal." Let's get a memo out to Hannity and Beck: Passing is a liberal plot. So now, when Tebow can't pass, it's actually a good thing.

Release the propaganda!

Keep hanging out with MacGruder. It's rubbing off on you, drama llama.


Hilarious!

Broncbow
01-13-2012, 03:34 AM
He's been a gimp, but DT's made some nice catches and so have Fells and Rosario. But the fact is that Tebow cannot make simple progression reads, where the reciever runs a route that has not adjustments depending upon coverage because Tebow also cannot consistently read coverages, and certainly can't read them fast enough to be on the same page as the receivers. He makes the progression reads, but he's so slow he can't see the man when he's in a zone gap or gets seperation out of a cut.

On Sunday he missed wide open Decker for a TD on the flea flicker and was so tentative passing to an open Larson that he got Larson blown up.

It's possible he'll get better. But right now Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin couldn't make this kid look better than real bad.

Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!
:sunshine:
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

Jay3
01-13-2012, 05:00 AM
Tebow debate is stuck in an endless spiral:

1. Unfair criticism, hate, hoping he fails, predicting failure for Tebow.
2. Tebow trolling by constantly making that an embarrassing proposition and winning.
3. Unexpressed shame and alienation on the part of Broncos fans who have engaged in #1.
4. Debate with Tebow's most ardent or irrational supporters, over the most ancillary points ( whether he's a rookie or not, whether his completion percentage is high enoug . . ) in order to self-delude that all you really had was a problem with Tebow's most irrational fans and the things they say. That way, you can pretend you weren't using a double standard on Tebow himself, but were just purifying the internet from Tebow nuts.

Tebow's detractors will chase the irrelevant stuff all the time, instead of genuinely exciting topic of whether the Broncos might have hit on this draft pick and be set for years to come at quarterback.

jhns
01-13-2012, 06:03 AM
LOL @ the stupidity of the haters...

Mile High Mojoe
01-13-2012, 07:28 AM
How many starts do the other qb's in the playoffs have? Seriously curious here. I know I haven't been paying attention but it seems I missed theatre where we came into the season picked to win the division. Or the part where we were expected to win 10 games this season. I missed all of that. I have the impression that we have a guy in year 1.5 of his development under center with no offseason with the knew coaching staff under his belt routinely asked to convert 3rd and 7+ after the run, run, run, run, pass punt. FFS. We have a rebuilding club going to the playoffs. White people problems you whining ****s. STFU and take some small joy you miserable twats.

I hadn't seen this thread until today and I read a lot of the posts but of all the posts this one sums up everything perfectly. Spot on with the last 3 lines.

"We have a rebuilding club going to the playoffs. White people problems you whining ****s. STFU and take some small joy you miserable twats."

I’m sick to death of listening to a bunch of perpetual whining sniveling white geeks who probably never even picked up a ball in their entire lives passing judgment and acting as if they’re the experts at evaluating the QB position. The hate on this one thread alone is just mind boggling, honestly most of you guys are pricks. It’s got nothing to do with Tebow, X’s and O’s or football in general you're just miserable unhappy punks whose pass the time day after day proving it on this website.

You guys call yourself Fans, you’re not Fans of anything. You’re some of biggest a-holes I’ve ever seen; you’re an embarrassment and a contemptible freaking disgrace.

Spider
01-13-2012, 07:31 AM
I hadn't seen this thread until today and I read a lot the posts but of all the posts this one sums up everything perfectly. Spot on with the last 2 lines.

"We have a rebuilding club going to the playoffs. White people problems you whining ****s. STFU and take some small joy you miserable twats."

I’m sick to death of listening to a bunch of perpetual whining sniveling white geeks who probably never even picked up a ball in their entire lives passing judgment and acting as if they’re the experts at evaluating the QB position. The hate on this one thread alone is just mind boggling, honestly most of you guys are pricks. It’s got nothing to do with Tebow, X’s and O’s or football in general you're just miserable unhappy punks whose pass the time day after day proving it on this website.

You guys call yourself Fans, you’re not Fans of anything. You’re some of biggest a-holes I’ve ever seen; you’re an embarrassment and a contemptible freaking disgrace.
the man god tebow does approve of this post ..........

Mile High Mojoe
01-13-2012, 07:53 AM
the man god tebow does approve of this post ..........

Spider, I have a question, why the negative comment about Tebow? You're a Broncos Fan right? Tomorrow like it not he's our guy, nothing is going to change that right? Why not take just 24 hours off from breaking his balls and root for him and the Broncos to win tomorrow?

Isn't that what a fan would do? They'll be plenty of time to tear him down afterwards if we get beat right?

Spider
01-13-2012, 07:57 AM
Spider, I have a question, why the negative comment about Tebow? You're a Broncos Fan right? Tomorrow like it not he's our guy, nothing is going to change that right? Why not take just 24 hours off from breaking his balls and root for him and the Broncos to win tomorrow?

Isn't that what a fan would do? They'll be plenty of time to tear him down afterwards if we get beat right?

what was the negative comment , I missed it ?

bendog
01-13-2012, 07:58 AM
Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!
:sunshine:
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

Just see if he can stay healthy for a year before blowing him, Jesus racist cracker boy.

Mile High Mojoe
01-13-2012, 07:59 AM
what was the negative comment , I missed it ?

Tebow Man God, is that a compliment or a cut?

jhns
01-13-2012, 07:59 AM
Just see if he can stay healthy for a year before blowing him, Jesus racist cracker boy.

He just did...?

You get dumber by the day.

bendog
01-13-2012, 08:00 AM
thanks for playing, Jizz

Spider
01-13-2012, 08:01 AM
Tebow Man God, is that a compliment or a cut?

it is neither , Just speaking teboner language .... you know , it is the coaches fault , the wide receivers fault , the oline fault , the water boy didnt put the Gatorade in the right bottle fault , the towel boy didnt have the towls at the right temp ........
you know I was a huge elway fan , but when he ****ed up I said so , didnt look to lay blame ..........
I will be cheering tebow and the Broncos hard tomorrow ;D

jhns
01-13-2012, 08:02 AM
thanks for playing, Jizz

Your stupidity is impressive.

jhns
01-13-2012, 08:03 AM
it is neither , Just speaking teboner language .... you know , it is the coaches fault , the wide receivers fault , the oline fault , the water boy didnt put the Gatorade in the right bottle fault , the towel boy didnt have the towls at the right temp ........
you know I was a huge elway fan , but when he ****ed up I said so , didnt look to lay blame ..........
I will be cheering tebow and the Broncos hard tomorrow ;D

Why would you say it is their fault? Tebow just had an extremely successful first year starting. You act like that is bad...

Mile High Mojoe
01-13-2012, 08:05 AM
I will be cheering tebow and the Broncos hard tomorrow ;D

^5

Spider
01-13-2012, 08:05 AM
Why would you say it is their fault? Tebow just had an extremely successful first year starting. You act like that is bad...

LOL hope your prick is longer then your memory ........ you guys blamed everything that went wrong on everyone but TEBOW ..... I still get a kick out of the EFX setting tebow up to fail shiat you ladies was saying

Spider
01-13-2012, 08:06 AM
^5^5

jhns
01-13-2012, 08:06 AM
LOL hope your prick is longer then your memory ........ you guys blamed everything that went wrong on everyone but TEBOW ..... I still get a kick out of the EFX setting tebow up to fail shiat you ladies was saying

Prove it. Show one post where I did this.

Not that I expect more from a dude that couldn't pass the second grade.

epicSocialism4tw
01-13-2012, 08:07 AM
Thread win!

Spider
01-13-2012, 08:08 AM
Prove it. Show one post where I did this.

Not that I expect more from a dude that couldn't pass the second grade.

LOL I am not going through all of that shiat .... if you want to bullshiat yourself then go ahead , I could care less

jhns
01-13-2012, 08:10 AM
LOL I am not going through all of that shiat .... if you want to bullshiat yourself then go ahead , I could care less

Exactly.

RaiderH8r
01-13-2012, 08:32 AM
I read the posts that I put up from my iPad and realize how auto correct has come in and changed words and such so that my usually well structured thoughts and grammar come out looking like Spider wrote them. FFS Apple. Get it right.

Spider
01-13-2012, 08:33 AM
I read the posts that I put up from my iPad and realize how auto correct has come in and changed words and such so that my usually well structured thoughts and grammar come out looking like Spider wrote them. FFS Apple. Get it right.

LOL not as easy as it looks posting from a smart phone is it ......

jhns
01-13-2012, 08:57 AM
I read the posts that I put up from my iPad and realize how auto correct has come in and changed words and such so that my usually well structured thoughts and grammar come out looking like Spider wrote them. FFS Apple. Get it right.

I had to turn that off and just let my bad spelling show. I was spending half my time correcting the changes the auto correct made. I'm on an Android phone though.

RaiderH8r
01-13-2012, 10:00 AM
LOL not as easy as it looks posting from a smart phone is it ......

Don't BS me Spider. I've been here long enough to know your grammar sucked since long before smart phones. :strong:

Spider
01-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Don't BS me Spider. I've been here long enough to know your grammar sucked since long before smart phones. :strong:

LOL well it was worth a shot