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Jay3
06-15-2012, 05:36 PM
I daresay that the majority of the bona fide Denver Broncos fans are not at all disgruntled with having Peyton Manning instead of Tebow... even those who might have chanted for Tebow to take over for the struggling Orton at some of last season's games. Bona fide fans of the team are generally delighted with the acquisition of a significant upgrade... particularly since we didn't have to compensate Indianapolis (give up draft picks) to do it.

Yeah, I would think so. It's been a move that's hard to argue with. To get Peyton, I think the Jets would have dumped Sanchez, the Cards would have dumped Kolb, the Niners would have dumped Smith, etc.

This kind of player hitting the free agent market has not happened in the history of the NFL.

Shananahan
06-15-2012, 07:23 PM
I daresay that the majority of the bona fide Denver Broncos fans are not at all disgruntled with having Peyton Manning instead of Tebow... even those who might have chanted for Tebow to take over for the struggling Orton at some of last season's games.
Nobody should be complaining about signing Manning. Everybody should have been complaining about starting Orton.

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 07:50 PM
I think there was majority support for getting Manning. Not for ditching Tebow. Which is why the franchise is in for a rude awakening if Favre II falls short.

Well, again, the team did Tebow a huge favor by letting him go to a team that may give him some playing time this year. And as was true with Lloyd and with Orton (in 2011), there's little upside in hanging onto a guy who doesn't want to be here.

Yeah, I would think so. It's been a move that's hard to argue with. To get Peyton, I think the Jets would have dumped Sanchez, the Cards would have dumped Kolb, the Niners would have dumped Smith, etc.

This kind of player hitting the free agent market has not happened in the history of the NFL.

Considering what other teams have given up for starting QBs recently ($60 million for Cassel... :rofl: ) Manning was a steal for us. I can't wait to see this team play.

Nobody should be complaining about signing Manning. Everybody should have been complaining about starting Orton.

I distinctly recall seeing posts from offseason '09 and during the 6-game winning streak to start that season... crowing about how much better off the Broncos were with Orton instead of Cutler. Some posters even went so far as to claim Orton was the superior QB.

Oh, well... the path has been rocky and controversial, but it eventually led to a situation where we have an elite QB.

Shananahan
06-15-2012, 08:17 PM
Posts from '09 supporting Orton during the six-game winning streak have nothing to do with arguing for him to continue starting after the 4-12 abortion. The sample size was too small at that point to realize what a boring and unsuccessful QB he would become.

I'm convinced a large portion of those who so staunchly defended Orton last season did so only because they disliked Tebow or were convinced he'd never be any good.

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 09:09 PM
Posts from '09 supporting Orton during the six-game winning streak have nothing to do with arguing for him to continue starting after the 4-12 abortion. The sample size was too small at that point to realize what a boring and unsuccessful QB he would become.

I'm convinced a large portion of those who so staunchly defended Orton last season did so only because they disliked Tebow or were convinced he'd never be any good.

For me, it boiled down to... the coaches see the whole team in practice every day and they're the ones whose careers are on the line if they get it wrong, so those decisions should be up to them to make without fan interference.

Tombstone RJ
06-15-2012, 09:21 PM
here you go Tebow fans:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/H3LyBaLYOWU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

enjoy...

baja
06-15-2012, 09:26 PM
Amazing this thread is still going. It's like the Energizer Bunny.


hey you guys we got Peyton F'in Manning, did ya hear?

CEH
06-15-2012, 09:35 PM
I want to see Tebow walk across Niagra Falls.

DENVERDUI55
06-15-2012, 10:19 PM
I think there was majority support for getting Manning. Not for ditching Tebow. Which is why the franchise is in for a rude awakening if Favre II falls short.

Works both ways if Manning doesn't work out at least we got out of that Tebow fan mess.

Missouribronc
06-15-2012, 10:57 PM
I don't know the answer to that one. I was talking about Tebow, who can.

I don't see why you guys always have to overstate your case so much. He can throw the football. His mechanics for the short game have needed serious work, and he's done that.

It's not overstating it. Two years in, it's pretty clear he cannot throw at an NFL level.

That means completing 60 percent of passes and reading defenses. He can do neither. That is NFL level.

Making one or two pro-level throws doesn't mean he is an NFL level quarterback, even if you want to play semantics, which you later tried to do.

Tebow is not an NFL-level quarterback three years into his career.

NFLBRONCO
06-15-2012, 10:58 PM
Works both ways if Manning doesn't work out at least we got out of that Tebow fan mess.


This is how I feel

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 11:31 PM
It's not overstating it. Two years in, it's pretty clear he cannot throw at an NFL level.

That means completing 60 percent of passes and reading defenses. He can do neither. That is NFL level.

Making one or two pro-level throws doesn't mean he is an NFL level quarterback, even if you want to play semantics, which you later tried to do.

Tebow is not an NFL-level quarterback three years into his career.

Yeah. Like Totally.

Eli Manning Like Totally Sucks Ballz.

Dumbass.

Jay3
06-16-2012, 05:23 AM
It's not overstating it. Two years in, it's pretty clear he cannot throw at an NFL level.

That means completing 60 percent of passes and reading defenses. He can do neither. That is NFL level.

Making one or two pro-level throws doesn't mean he is an NFL level quarterback, even if you want to play semantics, which you later tried to do.

Tebow is not an NFL-level quarterback three years into his career.

And why the need to accelerate to "three years into his career?"

It's not just you, that's a very common thing, to emphasize how very long Tebow's NFL career has been, and lately I've been seeing "Three years" a lot. By what strange mutant math has it been "three years into his career?"

Jay3
06-16-2012, 05:25 AM
For me, it boiled down to... the coaches see the whole team in practice every day and they're the ones whose careers are on the line if they get it wrong, so those decisions should be up to them to make without fan interference.

This is an alluring line of reasoning, but I discarded long ago. Sometime in about 1989.

You would think it would hold true, but there are some dumpster fires raging out there during any given NFL season.:~ohyah!:

BroncoBeavis
06-16-2012, 06:28 AM
And why the need to accelerate to "three years into his career?"

It's not just you, that's a very common thing, to emphasize how very long Tebow's NFL career has been, and lately I've been seeing "Three years" a lot. By what strange mutant math has it been "three years into his career?"

Cuz he played 16 games in two years so that basically makes it like 3.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-16-2012, 07:00 AM
This is an alluring line of reasoning, but I discarded long ago. Sometime in about 1989.

You would think it would hold true, but there are some dumpster fires raging out there during any given NFL season.:~ohyah!:

And are those "dumpster fires" because of a coaching decision? Or because there's simply not much talent on a lot of rosters?

Yeah. You can't simply "discard the reasoning," but you do anyway.

This is why I'm glad Tebow is gone. You are completely unreasonable when it comes to him. I'll give you this: you're not as bad as most (see BroncoButthead), but your arguments still don't pass muster.

I'm not sure why you continue to try and convince anyone that Tebow is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He doesn't pass the eye test for most people, including those in decision making positions in the NFL. Yet we and they are all missing something you're not.

It's... kind of insane.

errand
06-16-2012, 07:54 AM
And why the need to accelerate to "three years into his career?"

It's not just you, that's a very common thing, to emphasize how very long Tebow's NFL career has been, and lately I've been seeing "Three years" a lot. By what strange mutant math has it been "three years into his career?"

Depending on which bio sheet you read, some will include the upcoming season as one of a player's "nfl experience" or "years".... so it would not be odd to see an nfl publication listing a player's years of experience as 3 when in actuality he only played 2 years... I guess some writers just assume they're gonna be on the roster.

As far as Tim is concerned.... this is his third year where he's had to work on his mechanics just to complete half of his passes.....if he doesn't develop faster, he will be looking at either a position change or starting his ministry sooner than you guys think

CEH
06-16-2012, 08:23 AM
I just want to know why JAX would rather draft a punter in the 3rd round than offer their 3rd for a young stud QB?

Oh yeah Denver was having a fire sale. We can get Tebow for a 4th and still get our punter? Let's do it. We really want that punter so we can go any higher than a 4th for TRT

Spider
06-16-2012, 08:39 AM
Teboners still grasping :rofl:

Jay3
06-16-2012, 08:49 AM
And are those "dumpster fires" because of a coaching decision? Or because there's simply not much talent on a lot of rosters?

Yes, both, and also front office gaffes. The idea of "oh well, these guys know best" just got me nowhere. Imagine your a Cards fan trying to justify giving all that money to Kolb. How do you do that? At some point you realize that a substantial portion of decisions are wrong, and therefore as a fan, there's not point in declaring any particular decision off-limits for scrutiny or questioning. You might recognize they are better qualified overall, but it's actually flawed reasoning to declare a move correct beyond questioning just based on credentials.

Yeah. You can't simply "discard the reasoning," but you do anyway.

Yes, you can. It's flawed reasoning. It's call an "appeal to authority," and it is a fallacy. Best to consider all facts from scratch.

This is why I'm glad Tebow is gone. You are completely unreasonable when it comes to him. I'll give you this: you're not as bad as most (see BroncoButthead), but your arguments still don't pass muster.

Don't really care to discuss myself, or what makes you tick, or anyone else. Football.

I'm not sure why you continue to try and convince anyone that Tebow is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He doesn't pass the eye test for most people, including those in decision making positions in the NFL. Yet we and they are all missing something you're not.

It's... kind of insane.

It is the "eye test." He reads "wrong" to the eyes of many. And he doesn't to many of us. If he doesn't look bad, then objectively he's not all that bad.

But the thing is this -- detractors always seem to cloak themselves in the idea that "everybody" in the NFL agrees with them, or at least everybody who matters. But they don't -- there's plenty of people who do think he's good. The New York Jets, for one.

Almost nobody thinks he's the GOAT -- there's a natural tendency for running quarterbacks to have belief in them, because the thinking goes like this: "This guy runs it as good as a running back, so if he could be competent to average as a passer, he would be hard to stop." People were really high on Vick, even though his passing efficiency in college was very low. Vince Young was probably overrated in hindsight. Cam Newton, although he is a great passer, probably got more attention because of his running college (the thinking being he could really change the game).

People who like Tebow see an elite runner, who also has a great NFL size, a strong arm, and that freakish ability to hit long passes. It's just an easy leap for us -- the thinking is he can get better with his footwork and mechanics and develop a better short passing game. It's not a huge leap.

I can understand a giant "meh" when looking at Tebow. I do not understand those who think he needs to be run out of the league.

Blueflame
06-16-2012, 12:29 PM
Yes, both, and also front office gaffes. The idea of "oh well, these guys know best" just got me nowhere. Imagine your a Cards fan trying to justify giving all that money to Kolb. How do you do that? At some point you realize that a substantial portion of decisions are wrong, and therefore as a fan, there's not point in declaring any particular decision off-limits for scrutiny or questioning. You might recognize they are better qualified overall, but it's actually flawed reasoning to declare a move correct beyond questioning just based on credentials.

Yes, you can. It's flawed reasoning. It's call an "appeal to authority," and it is a fallacy. Best to consider all facts from scratch.

Yes, coaches make mistakes... and when they make too many of them, they get fired (like your reference to 1989). I'd find it easier to justify paying Kolb than paying $60 million for Cassel... just sayin'. Ultimately it's all "tilting at windmills" however... cause coaches and front offices are gonna do what they're gonna do regardless of whether or not an individual fan approves.

No one said any decisions were "off-limits for scrutiny"... but it is just common sense that those who are present for workouts and practices and see with their own eyes how players perform on a daily basis... are better-equipped to make informed decisions regarding starting lineups than those who are not.

Don't really care to discuss myself, or what makes you tick, or anyone else. Football.



It is the "eye test." He reads "wrong" to the eyes of many. And he doesn't to many of us. If he doesn't look bad, then objectively he's not all that bad.

But the thing is this -- detractors always seem to cloak themselves in the idea that "everybody" in the NFL agrees with them, or at least everybody who matters. But they don't -- there's plenty of people who do think he's good. The New York Jets, for one.

Are the New York Jets planning on using Tim Tebow as a QB? Asking him to add weight would strongly suggest that they are not. No one denies that he can play football... he just cannot consistently put the football where it needs to be.

Almost nobody thinks he's the GOAT -- there's a natural tendency for running quarterbacks to have belief in them, because the thinking goes like this: "This guy runs it as good as a running back, so if he could be competent to average as a passer, he would be hard to stop." People were really high on Vick, even though his passing efficiency in college was very low. Vince Young was probably overrated in hindsight. Cam Newton, although he is a great passer, probably got more attention because of his running college (the thinking being he could really change the game).

People who like Tebow see an elite runner, who also has a great NFL size, a strong arm, and that freakish ability to hit long passes. It's just an easy leap for us -- the thinking is he can get better with his footwork and mechanics and develop a better short passing game. It's not a huge leap.

I can understand a giant "meh" when looking at Tebow. I do not understand those who think he needs to be run out of the league.

I don't think many people think "he needs to be run out of the league"... it's more that "if he cannot consistently put the ball where it needs to be, then the "starting QB" position isn't a realistic goal for him; he needs to shift to FB, TE or some other position where he can immediately succeed." There are many areas where he could make a significant contribution on a football team, things he can do right now with the tools he already has.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-16-2012, 01:12 PM
He's bulking up to play not-QB in New York. Oh, I'm sure he'll line up under center sometimes, and oh how you'll hoot and holler. "SEE?" you'll yell. "He's playing QB right now! TEH JETX BELEIEEEEEEVE!" But then he'll be blocking on punt coverage two plays later, and you'll still be remembering that glorious play when he bounced a screen pass. Dressing up as a QB.

You wanna start from scratch? Let's do that.

Word out of camp was that Tebow looked TERRIBLE. Full stop. That wasn't just coaches, that was everyone. Now I know, I know, "he's a gamer!" and "he's not a practice player!" but the fact is, you've got to perform in practice if you want to see the field. That's how it's always been. So using the fact that he looked TERRIBLE in camp, Orton was the starter to begin last season.

That's not an appeal to authority. That's seeing what everyone else sees.

Thing about it is, even when Tebow did start, he STILL looked like garbage for three quarters a game. I'm not appealing to authority to get there.

errand
06-16-2012, 03:38 PM
Yeah. Like Totally.

Eli Manning Like Totally Sucks Ballz.

Dumbass.

the difference is that Eli basically improved in every season since his rookie year.

He only improve his completion pct. by 4 points in year two, but he threw for almost 3800 yards....which showed promise, and earned him patience from fans and coaches

his 3rd season saw him hit on almost 58% of his passes...which is closer to the silver standard of 60% which earned him a little more patience....

His 4th season saw him drop 2 points in completion % (just over 56%)...but he helped his team win the SB...so that earned him more patience by the fans and coaches.

the next season he hit 60% reduced his int's by about 50% and has been elite ever since.

Tebow hit on 50% as a rookie...and then hit 46.5% in second year

Watching Eli play, the fans and coaches saw that it was just a matter of time before he'd become elite.....your boy on the other hand hadn't shown enough to most Bronco fans and the coaching staff to make them believe he'll become elite.....he showed enough to make most that have watched him think he'll be serviceable at best.

errand
06-16-2012, 03:45 PM
I just want to know why JAX would rather draft a punter in the 3rd round than offer their 3rd for a young stud QB?


Oh yeah Denver was having a fire sale. We can get Tebow for a 4th and still get our punter? Let's do it. We really want that punter so we can go any higher than a 4th for TRT

Well, first off...Tebow isn't a stud QB....at this stage of his career he's serviceable at best. They already have a 1st round pick Qb that struggles...why spend a 3rd on yet another? and regardless of if they acquired Tebow or not...with Gabbert struggling and Matt Moore a shade above Kyle Orton, it made sense to invest in a potentially good to great punter who can help you win the field position battle after all the 3 and outs they'll obviously have.

errand
06-16-2012, 04:00 PM
But the thing is this -- detractors always seem to cloak themselves in the idea that "everybody" in the NFL agrees with them, or at least everybody who matters. But they don't -- there's plenty of people who do think he's good. The New York Jets, for one.


People who like Tebow see an elite runner, who also has a great NFL size, a strong arm, and that freakish ability to hit long passes. It's just an easy leap for us -- the thinking is he can get better with his footwork and mechanics and develop a better short passing game. It's not a huge leap.

I can understand a giant "meh" when looking at Tebow. I do not understand those who think he needs to be run out of the league.

well i guess it's a good thing we traded him to the Jets then....cuz they think he's good.

And who said Tebow needs to be "run out of the league"? some believe he'll be out of the league in a year or two, but that is because he's not shown them enough to change their opinion of his ability to play in the NFL....that isn't wishing he gets run out of the league...it's playing the odds that below average passers rarely make it to year 4 or 5 if they don't improve. The Ryan Leaf's and Akili Smith's and JaMarcus Russell's of the world dictate this to be fact

Jay3
06-16-2012, 04:03 PM
You wanna start from scratch? Let's do that.

Word out of camp was that Tebow looked TERRIBLE. Full stop. That wasn't just coaches, that was everyone. Now I know, I know, "he's a gamer!" and "he's not a practice player!" but the fact is, you've got to perform in practice if you want to see the field. That's how it's always been. So using the fact that he looked TERRIBLE in camp, Orton was the starter to begin last season.

That's not an appeal to authority. That's seeing what everyone else sees.

Thing about it is, even when Tebow did start, he STILL looked like garbage for three quarters a game. I'm not appealing to authority to get there.

I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at his play, and saying "he stinks" or "in my opinion, he'll never improve enough."

Never had a problem with that -- it's something everybody can do. The main reason I see it differently is that the things he is the worst at are the very things that can be improved, IMO.

It's no secret, I'm a Gator. And Danny Wuerffel was obviously my favorite Gator QB before Tebow. He had all the same accomplishments, and more. But I never had that sense that he could make a good pro. Danny was the opposite of Tebow -- doing it all with perfect timing, perfect anticipation, etc. He didn't have the arm. He didn't have athleticism and strength. He didn't have the playmaking ability. Almost every good play that Wuerffel ever made was a play that went right, and he got rid of it.

Tebow was cooked in an entirely different oven. He has always been asked to run. And in college football, you're not supposed to lose any games if you're in the hunt for the championship. I think Tebow played every game with the attitude of "take a look for the pass, if it's not there, chip away at the run." He has Lance Armstrong level endurance (I'm serious). And he could win games by just spreading it out, taking the long chunk passes, or running it for 5. And the coaches not only let him, they evolved their game plan for him to do that.

What that means is that his every step, his every body mechanic, his every habit, and every instinct, is not geared towards backing up and just picking the best receiver and giving it a shot. He can tell himself in his mind to do that, but his body has never had that rhythm.

The reason he doesn't throw it to receivers that open up early is that his body and feet are not in position. He's late. He's behind. And the reason he sometimes throws awful throws in that setting is he occasionally gives it a shot anyway, even when he shouldn't.

He's learning the rhythm and steps, and entire body english, of an NFL pass. He's like Rocky in Rocky III.

Right now, it's like playing with one arm tied behind his back, because it's not second nature yet. When it becomes second nature, he will be incredible.

Note: no, not everyone can do it. If it weren't for the fact that he has a great arm, and a real tendency to drive it down the field accurately on throws of 20+ yards, it would not be good raw material.

Note: his motion will always be slower and more elongated than average. It's like a golf swing, he just has a certain "pre-action" he has to do to throw it like he wants.

Note: The Jets are using him as a QB, he's getting a lot more ordinary, quarterback reps than he's ever had. This preseason is really good for him, at a really good time.

Jay3
06-16-2012, 04:05 PM
Trying to calculate in my head how many neg-reps from TN that long post will cost me.

errand
06-16-2012, 04:16 PM
You just posted the reason why many of us think he'll never be more than what he already is....a guy that'll win you some games with his legs, but will consistently fail when asked to throw the ball.

What is funny is you and Bronco Beavis keep trying to sell us on the greatness of Tebow, even though he's not shown enough at the pro level to say otherwise and how he was wronged by the FO even though they got rid of his main competition in Orton and his biggest critic on the team in Lloyd and changed the entire offense to suit his skill set and how we'll regret it if Manning goes down to an injury, despite Manning being one of the most durable QB's prior to his neck surgeries, etc...

Missouribronc
06-16-2012, 09:11 PM
Entering his third season, he's not a competent NFL quarterback. Three years of working, and he still is bad. Actually, five, through his own words, but we'll dismiss the talk in his college years about changing mechanics and yada-yada, so three years.

Amazes me that people still smoke his pole.

BroncoBeavis
06-17-2012, 06:39 AM
Trying to calculate in my head how many neg-reps from TN that long post will cost me.

My last neg rep from tgn a couple days ago was actually positive. Guessing he forgot to switch it. :)

capt. Jack
06-17-2012, 06:41 AM
But, for now he has a winning record in the NFL? So he must be a little bit good at something?

peacepipe
06-17-2012, 03:22 PM
But, for now he has a winning record in the NFL? So he must be a little bit good at something?Vince young has a winning record as well 30-17. how is he not a hot commodity in the NFL? isn't the win/loss record the only thing that counts?

Jay3
06-17-2012, 05:38 PM
My last neg rep from tgn a couple days ago was actually positive. Guessing he forgot to switch it. :)

He did that a couple of times for me. But the venomous comment never leaves any doubt. :thumbs:

errand
06-17-2012, 06:15 PM
But, for now he has a winning record in the NFL? So he must be a little bit good at something?

..and Trent Dilfer won a SB ...still doesn't make him a good QB.

BroncoBeavis
06-17-2012, 10:25 PM
Vince young has a winning record as well 30-17. how is he not a hot commodity in the NFL? isn't the win/loss record the only thing that counts?

I suppose you're counting the year the Titans went 13-3 and Vince helped out by riding pine next to his therapist while Kerry Collins was winning football games.

CEH
06-18-2012, 01:20 AM
I suppose you're counting the year the Titans went 13-3 and Vince helped out by riding pine next to his therapist while Kerry Collins was winning football games.

Yes his 30-17 overall record with Tenn includes the one win he was credited with in 2008

In games started for Tenn he never had a losing record

Pretty awesome Now he's fighting with Tyler THigpen for the final QB sport in BUF

capt. Jack
06-18-2012, 04:21 AM
..and Trent Dilfer won a SB ...still doesn't make him a good QB.

You are right! I just liked his fire & intensity, but I do question his ability to develop into a prototype QB. Time will tell?

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 07:11 AM
Yes his 30-17 overall record with Tenn includes the one win he was credited with in 2008

In games started for Tenn he never had a losing record

Pretty awesome Now he's fighting with Tyler THigpen for the final QB sport in BUF

Good for him. Unfortunately there's still a pretty significant difference between 30-17 and 18-17. This is akin to saying Curtis Painter has a pretty good NFL record because he sat behind PM for a couple years.

Edit: I looked it up and he really is 30-17 in games started. Impressive, and more than I wouldve guessed. But as Kerry Collins showed, he had some pretty good talent to work with.

TonyR
06-18-2012, 08:17 AM
Now I know, I know, "he's a gamer!" and "he's not a practice player!"...

LOL And don't forget about those "intangibles"! Off the charts! Sky's the limit!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/sports/football/a-gifted-athlete-tim-tebow-has-plenty-of-flaws.html

oubronco
06-18-2012, 11:19 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/322/705/144199893_display_image.jpg?1339980833

Weber works at No. 2. Whether it stays this way for training camp remains to be seen. But there's little doubt that through minicamp, Adam Weber was the No. 2 quarterback behind Peyton Manning.


Read more: Broncos, kicker Matt Prater continue to work on details of contract - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861814/broncos-kicker-matt-prater-continue-work-details-contract#ixzz1yAO4yfWT) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861814/broncos-kicker-matt-prater-continue-work-details-contract#ixzz1yAO4yfWT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 11:32 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/322/705/144199893_display_image.jpg?1339980833

Weber works at No. 2. Whether it stays this way for training camp remains to be seen. But there's little doubt that through minicamp, Adam Weber was the No. 2 quarterback behind Peyton Manning.


Read more: Broncos, kicker Matt Prater continue to work on details of contract - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861814/broncos-kicker-matt-prater-continue-work-details-contract#ixzz1yAO4yfWT) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861814/broncos-kicker-matt-prater-continue-work-details-contract#ixzz1yAO4yfWT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Wow, Oz's third on the depth chart behind a 2nd year UDFA. Bust. :)

peacepipe
06-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Wow, Oz's third on the depth chart behind a 2nd year UDFA. Bust. :)It doesn't really make a differance where Oz is on the depth chart. his job is to learn & be ready when PM retires.

TonyR
06-18-2012, 11:48 AM
Whether it stays this way for training camp remains to be seen. But there's little doubt that through minicamp, Adam Weber was the No. 2 quarterback behind Peyton Manning.

Hmm, does this mean it's possible that Hanie doesn't make the team?!?

Shananahan
06-18-2012, 11:58 AM
Would anybody really care if he doesn't?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-18-2012, 12:31 PM
Hmm, does this mean it's possible that Hanie doesn't make the team?!?

Sure wouldn't mind flipping him for a late rounder or something.

razorwire77
06-18-2012, 12:57 PM
Hmm, does this mean it's possible that Hanie doesn't make the team?!?

Well, the team isn't going to keep 4 quarterbacks. If Hanie can't beat out a practice squad player to hold a clip board he doesn't really provide much. Preseason games are going to be quite a bit of fun at the QB position this year.

Jay3
06-18-2012, 02:31 PM
Oz = 4th string.

Tombstone RJ
06-18-2012, 03:03 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/322/705/144199893_display_image.jpg?1339980833

Weber works at No. 2. Whether it stays this way for training camp remains to be seen. But there's little doubt that through minicamp, Adam Weber was the No. 2 quarterback behind Peyton Manning.


Read more: Broncos, kicker Matt Prater continue to work on details of contract - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861814/broncos-kicker-matt-prater-continue-work-details-contract#ixzz1yAO4yfWT) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861814/broncos-kicker-matt-prater-continue-work-details-contract#ixzz1yAO4yfWT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Gotta say, that release point is like, great. About as high as possible. If Weber has a remotely "quick" release then kudos to him.

bronco militia
06-25-2012, 03:29 PM
it's official: Tebow Still Sucks

;D

Posted June 25, 2012, 2:10 pm MT Peyton Manning vs. Tim Tebow: Colorado voters weigh inBy Lindsay Jones The Denver Post Add a comment

The folks at Public Policy Polling included some quarterbacks questions in a recent survey of Colorado voters. The results showed that local voters prefer Tim Tebow as a person, but prefer Peyton Manning as a quarterback.

According to a release from the polling agency, Tebow received a 68 percent favorable rating as a person, compared to 57 percent for Manning. Tebow had an 18 percent unfavorable rating, compared to only 10 percent for Manning.

But as a quarterback, 53 percent of the nearly 900 voters surveyed preferred Manning under center for the Broncos. Only 21 percent said they would rather have Tebow as the Broncos’ quarterback, while 25 percent selected “not sure.”

Other notable items from the poll:

- Tebow’s favorability percentages were higher among women and older voters.

- John Elway received a 63 percent favorability rating among the participants in the poll.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/06/25/peyton-manning-tim-tebow-colorado-voters-weigh/14050/

GreatBronco16
06-25-2012, 03:46 PM
it's official: Tebow Still Sucks

;D

Posted June 25, 2012, 2:10 pm MT Peyton Manning vs. Tim Tebow: Colorado voters weigh inBy Lindsay Jones The Denver Post Add a comment

The folks at Public Policy Polling included some quarterbacks questions in a recent survey of Colorado voters. The results showed that local voters prefer Tim Tebow as a person, but prefer Peyton Manning as a quarterback.

According to a release from the polling agency, Tebow received a 68 percent favorable rating as a person, compared to 57 percent for Manning. Tebow had an 18 percent unfavorable rating, compared to only 10 percent for Manning.

But as a quarterback, 53 percent of the nearly 900 voters surveyed preferred Manning under center for the Broncos. Only 21 percent said they would rather have Tebow as the Broncos’ quarterback, while 25 percent selected “not sure.”

Other notable items from the poll:

- Tebow’s favorability percentages were higher among women and older voters.

- John Elway received a 63 percent favorability rating among the participants in the poll.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/06/25/peyton-manning-tim-tebow-colorado-voters-weigh/14050/

I bet they polled the Mane 90 times.:giggle:

broncocalijohn
06-25-2012, 06:16 PM
it's official: Tebow Still Sucks

;
But as a quarterback, 53 percent of the nearly 900 voters surveyed preferred Manning under center for the Broncos. Only 21 percent said they would rather have Tebow as the Broncos’ quarterback, while 25 percent selected “not sure.”

Other notable items from the poll:

- Tebow’s favorability percentages were higher among women and older voters.

- John Elway received a 63 percent favorability rating among the participants in the poll.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/06/25/peyton-manning-tim-tebow-colorado-voters-weigh/14050/

Goes to show you that women and old people vote with their heart and not their mind (little they have compared to us younger men) and 37% of the people are Raider fans for not having a favorable rating for Elway.

broncocalijohn
06-25-2012, 06:29 PM
Here you go from Tebow himself. He admits that he totally sucks and is no good. MacGruder replies that it really wasn't him that said this:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Tim-Tebow-Mark-Sanchez-New-York-Jets-starting-quarterback-062512

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-25-2012, 10:43 PM
Here you go from Tebow himself. He admits that he totally sucks and is no good. MacGruder replies that it really wasn't him that said this:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Tim-Tebow-Mark-Sanchez-New-York-Jets-starting-quarterback-062512

Elway made him say this.

baja
06-25-2012, 11:30 PM
I respect Tim Tebow and am grateful for his play in Denver. I will follow his career with interest.

baja
06-25-2012, 11:33 PM
I think the juveniles bashing Tebow on this thread are poor fans, not worthy of the 6 Jay Cutler gave them.

Popps
06-25-2012, 11:39 PM
I watch football for fun. Tebow gave us more fun last year than we've had in the past 5 combined. I wish him the best.

Now... its PMFM time.

broncocalijohn
06-26-2012, 01:18 AM
I watch football for fun. Tebow gave us more fun last year than we've had in the past 5 combined. I wish him the best.

Now... its PMFM time.

Where have you been?

R-Mac
06-27-2012, 12:05 PM
When McDaniels drafted Tebow, Mike Mayock said: "redshirt him at least once, maybe redshirt him twice". Everybody knew Tebow was a raw quarterback that would need time to adjust to the professional game. One of Tebow's main issues is his ability to go through progressions and find open receivers quickly. The shotgun offense at Florida was not really a big issue. The elite quarterbacks in the NFL are often taking snaps from shotgun formations. And Tebow eventually learned how to take the snap from under center and drop back. In his second season, he was still struggling to read the field and distribute the ball to receivers that were not his primary target.

Again, we must remember he was considered a project. Kyle Orton got 1st team reps during the 2010 offseason, and he started most of the season. Then McDaniels, the man that had a plan for Tebow, was fired. Lockout in 2011. Orton got once again all 1st team reps in training camp. So, Tebow never had a full offseason as the starting quarterback to get plenty of quality reps with the starters. He had to share reps with the other backup quarterbacks. As a backup, he obviously got very few reps during the regular season. All these facts hurt Tebow's development. And after all the praise for Kyle Orton, the Broncos decided to let Tebow lead a 1-4 team.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a quarterback be more humiliated by his own team. Seriously. Tebow has his flaws, he is far from a polished product, but damn. What the Broncos did was painful to watch. It was a lesson on how not to develop your young quarterback and make him look stupid.

1) Early in the season, they used him as a wide receiver. A young, raw quarterback, with his ability questioned by a legion of detractors, was lined up as a wide receiver. And he was there just to look silly, because Orton not even looked at him.

2) When Tebow was named the starter, the Broncos decided to trade their best wide receiver for a late round pick. The player that can make all kinds of crazy catches, even when he is not open, was gone from the roster.

3) The Broncos' plan: get rid of the veteran receiver that wanted his share of receptions; install a run-heavy offense with few passing attempts, using the young, unproven receivers as blockers. And John Fox at some point was preaching "balance" on offense.

4) Zone-read option. College offense. Actually, not even a college offense, because McCoy only installed a small number of plays and kept calling the same plays. What we saw was not the Florida offense, just a few plays from that system. Will Muschamp used to call screen passes, something McCoy refused to do with Tebow. Aaron Hernandez, the receiving tight end, often was Tebow's primary target, heavily involved in the offense. As McCoy himself admitted, the tight ends were not even Tebow's second read.

5) 8 passes against the Chiefs, almost all of them were deep bombs down the field. This is not how you develop a quarterback. This is how you make him look, once and for all, like a fullback.

6) In the first half of their final four games, the Broncos ran the ball on 45-of-49 first-down attempts. The most predictable offense in the NFL. Awful playcalling, probably because McCoy did not have any experience with that kind of offense.

7) Finally, as a reward for winning a playoff game, something the Broncos had not experienced in 5 years, Tebow was traded for a 4th round pick. I understand it's part of the business, especially when a new regime is in control. McDaniels kicked Cutler, Elway kicked Tebow. Hypothetically, a brand new regime would also kick Osweiler (another raw quarterback) and find its own guy.

In the end, the raw quarterback was not developed. He was asked to run the ball and operate a simple zone-read option that was figured out. The Broncos made Tebow look silly. A wildcat freak. This is not rocket science. The Broncos had a system in place. Orton was playing in that system and everybody was comfortable with it. Tebow should have been asked to run that same offense. No zone-read crap. Call a passing play. Tebow has freedom to improvise and run if he can't find an open target. Make him accountable. He must be efficient. Let him prove he is better than Orton.

If he can't run the offense, then keep him on the bench. Elway and McCoy could not wait to get rid of Tebow. "Give me a real quarterback". Well, Orton and Quinn are known as conventional quarterbacks, so the team had other options. Now, Tebow is a circus act in New York. He is the fullback wearing #15. They will occasionally unleash the freak and let him run near the goal line. There are other raw quarterbacks like Tebow in the NFL. Colin Kaepernick is a good example. The 49ers don't treat him like a stupid athlete that has no future as a quarterback.

If you can't develop a quarterback, or if you simply don't want to develop him, then at least don't ridicule him. All you have to do is say: "believe me, he is not ready. We must redshirt him".

oubronco
06-27-2012, 12:09 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4193971631_f4a14a5e72_o.gif

Beantown Bronco
06-27-2012, 12:33 PM
Rod,

You should probably cry about it more.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-27-2012, 01:04 PM
Niners brought in Josh Johnson and he already jumped Colin on the depth chart. They looked at manning and ended up giving a bad QB a long term contract. Also flat out saying they NEVER wanted Tebow and it was embarrassed they were actually rumored.

Ya good way to bring along Colin.

Tombstone RJ
06-27-2012, 01:28 PM
When McDaniels drafted Tebow, Mike Mayock said: "redshirt him at least once, maybe redshirt him twice". Everybody Blah, blah, blah...

Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a quarterback be more humiliated by his own team. Seriously. Blah, blah, crying, blah, blah some more.

1) Early in the season, blah, blah, blah.

2) When Tebow was named the starter, blah, blah, sniff, tears, sniff.

3) The Broncos' plan: blah, blah, not playing Tebow.

4) Zone-read option. College offense. Actually, not even a college offense, because McCoy blah, blah blah. Oh yah, blah.

5) 8 passes against the Chiefs, sniffles and blah, blah.

6) In the first half of their final four games, blah, blah, blah, I need a life, blah.

7) Finally, I'm winding this up and I think I have a point.

In the end, nope, no point other than I'm butt hurt.

If he can't run the offense, cry louder and maybe things will change.

If you can't develop a quarterback, draft another guy like Osweiler.

get over it already.

DBroncos4life
07-24-2012, 03:30 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2012/07/jets-may-use-tim-tebow-as-situational-kick-returner

Jets not taking any chances when it comes to developing Tebow into a QB.

errand
07-24-2012, 07:05 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2012/07/jets-may-use-tim-tebow-as-situational-kick-returner

Jets not taking any chances when it comes to developing Tebow into a QB.

Tim playing special teams isn't that big of a deal... the Patriots already showed that an offensive lineman can make a 70 yard KO return, why couldn't a 250lb FB?

bronco militia
07-24-2012, 10:46 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/2012/07/jets-may-use-tim-tebow-as-situational-kick-returner

Jets not taking any chances when it comes to developing Tebow into a QB.

http://thesouthstands.com/board/Smileys/classic/FACEPALM.gif

:rofl:

BroncoBeavis
07-24-2012, 10:53 PM
Hey look, team "Can't Stand the Circus" is coming back for another encore.

bronco militia
07-24-2012, 10:56 PM
Hey look, team "Can't Stand the Circus" is coming back for another encore.

and the orangemane welcomes the "peyton manning sucks brigade"

:charge:

BroncoBeavis
07-24-2012, 11:05 PM
and the orangemane welcomes the "peyton manning sucks brigade"

:charge:

Well if he can win a playoff game, he'll get us back where we were.

Unfortunately he's only done that 4 seasons out of 13.

But at the end of the day, my crow gets served with a trophy. Yours comes topped with anything less.

bronco militia
07-25-2012, 07:54 AM
Well if he can win a playoff game, he'll get us back where we were.

Unfortunately he's only done that 4 seasons out of 13.

But at the end of the day, my crow gets served with a trophy. Yours comes topped with anything less.

i'm still a broncos fan either way

BroncoBeavis
07-25-2012, 08:03 AM
i'm still a broncos fan either way

Which is so obviously not the case for the people who supported our last QB.

bronco militia
07-25-2012, 08:08 AM
Which is so obviously not the case for the people who supported our last QB.

down here in the springs? I would have to agree

BroncoBeavis
07-25-2012, 08:19 AM
down here in the springs? I would have to agree

How about the Ortonites. Were they excommunicated as well?

bronco militia
07-25-2012, 08:36 AM
How about the Ortonites. Were they excommunicated as well?

you tell me...I didn't know any of them ;D

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-25-2012, 09:11 AM
Well if he can win a playoff game, he'll get us back where we were.

Unfortunately he's only done that 4 seasons out of 13.

But at the end of the day, my crow gets served with a trophy. Yours comes topped with anything less.

So anything less wouldn't have happened with tebow? Tebow isn't even a QB anymore.

BoiseBluTurf
07-25-2012, 09:16 AM
Hey look, team "Can't Stand the Circus" is coming back for another encore.

He said completly ignoring the article... KICK COVERAGE! A Qb... wtf?

orangeatheist
07-25-2012, 09:17 AM
So anything less wouldn't have happened with tebow? Tebow isn't even a QB anymore.

^ This.

What makes Tebowners think that Tebow was going to repeat into the post-season again in 2012-13? I could understand their argument if they were to say Manning needed to repeat last year's success with the same schedule/team. But that's not going to happen. What they're doing is setting the bar in such a fashion that they can't lose. Manning doesn't get the Broncos to the post-season? Well, they get to say "told ya so!" Manning DOES get the team to the post-season and into the Big Game? They get to say, "Well, guess I was wrong but at least I get to eat my crow with a trophy on top." Such a joke.

GreatBronco16
07-25-2012, 09:26 AM
Really??? Who cares anymore? Move on.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-25-2012, 09:31 AM
Really??? Who cares anymore? Move on.

Well it is kind of interesting to see this season. Personally I want to see how this cutler to Marshall is going to pan out. It's football. Storylines all across the league. It's fun to soak them up.

BroncoBeavis
07-25-2012, 09:35 AM
^ This.

What makes Tebowners think that Tebow was going to repeat into the post-season again in 2012-13? I could understand their argument if they were to say Manning needed to repeat last year's success with the same schedule/team. But that's not going to happen. What they're doing is setting the bar in such a fashion that they can't lose. Manning doesn't get the Broncos to the post-season? Well, they get to say "told ya so!" Manning DOES get the team to the post-season and into the Big Game? They get to say, "Well, guess I was wrong but at least I get to eat my crow with a trophy on top." Such a joke.

Sorry, but are you insinuating it's ok for the team to spend $90 mil on a 36 year old QB and not make the playoffs?

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-25-2012, 09:39 AM
Sorry, but are you insinuating it's ok for the team to spend $90 mil on a 36 year old QB and not make the playoffs?

If manning stays healthy all year he won't be the reason they don't make the playoffs. But the best defensive player missing 4 or more games could be a reason.


To get into the playoffs they don't have to be the best team. Just better than 3 teams. And I'll take Manning being better than Palmer Cassel and Rivers.

BroncoBeavis
07-25-2012, 09:46 AM
If manning stays healthy all year he won't be the reason they don't make the playoffs. But the best defensive player missing 4 or more games could be a reason..

He missed 2 last year. And was nothing close to 100% awhile after that. Plus Von got hurt down the stretch. You can do that kind of excusemaking every year.

There's no getting around the fact that this $90 million gamble handicaps the team's ability to rebuild in other areas. They bet the franchise on the short term. Now to lower the bar and say no postseason success is necessary is pretty comical.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-25-2012, 09:49 AM
He missed 2 last year. And was nothing close to 100% awhile after that. Plus Von got hurt down the stretch. You can do that kind of excusemaking every year.

There's no getting around the fact that this $90 million gamble handicaps the team's ability to rebuild in other areas. They bet the franchise on the short term. Now to lower the bar and say no postseason success is necessary is pretty comical.

I was making a point that if manning stays healthy and plays all year that he won't be the reason they dont make it. Last year losing 3 games in a row and going 8-8 got you in the playoffs. You actually think that resume will get you in this year?

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-25-2012, 09:55 AM
I think they can get in at 10-6. I see manning winning 10 games on this schedule. I don't see tebow winning 10 games on this schedule. You think spending millions on a HOFer(albeit 36 and coming off an injury) is worse than putting a kick coverage specialist at starting QB?

BroncoBeavis
07-25-2012, 09:55 AM
I was making a point that if manning stays healthy and plays all year that he won't be the reason they dont make it. Last year losing 3 games in a row and going 8-8 got you in the playoffs. You actually think that resume will get you in this year?

No, but going 8-8 again with Peyton Manning would certainly dispel the myth that the Denver Broncos went from 4-12 (and 1-4) to 8-8 in spite of Tim Tebow playing.

It would establish that the team has other gaping holes to fill, and will develop even more as we get old waiting for the Manning Retirement Tour to end.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-25-2012, 09:56 AM
Different day. Same ****ing argument.

Drunk Monkey
07-27-2012, 03:21 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8206677/results-mixed-tim-tebow-new-york-jets-training-camp-debut

Dirty Sanchez is safe at #1 QB for another day.

broncosteven
07-27-2012, 03:27 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8206677/results-mixed-tim-tebow-new-york-jets-training-camp-debut

Dirty Sanchez is safe at #1 QB for another day.

He is what we thought he was

Wait is this the Favorite football quote thread or a Tebow can't throw in the NFL thread?

bronco militia
07-27-2012, 03:28 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8206677/results-mixed-tim-tebow-new-york-jets-training-camp-debut

Dirty Sanchez is safe at #1 QB for another day.

lol.....Tebow's throwing motion sucks and so does keyshawm johnson. what a ****ing idiot

House has worked with a number of other prominent NFL quarterbacks this offseason, including Tom Brady, Alex Smith and Carson Palmer.

Br0nc0Buster
07-27-2012, 03:42 PM
"Behind the second-team line, he was under heavy pressure and took off three times on scrambles. On one play, coordinator Tony Sparano screamed for him to throw the ball, but Tebow took off anyway"

That was from another article about the Jets TC practice

More things change the more they stay the same I guess

DENVERDUI55
07-27-2012, 03:53 PM
There are actually some idiots here that think the team is worse off with Manning as our QB rather than Teblow.

errand
07-27-2012, 06:32 PM
There are actually some idiots here that think the team is worse off with Manning as our QB rather than Teblow.

Well, that's what happens when they engage in hero worship.....the team is secondary to the player in their eyes.

Missouribronc
07-27-2012, 10:13 PM
He missed 2 last year. And was nothing close to 100% awhile after that. Plus Von got hurt down the stretch. You can do that kind of excusemaking every year.

There's no getting around the fact that this $90 million gamble handicaps the team's ability to rebuild in other areas. They bet the franchise on the short term. Now to lower the bar and say no postseason success is necessary is pretty comical.

Your butthurt level is amazing.

Anyone who thinks the team would be better off with Tebow than all time great is a complete moron.

And it would "handicap" rebuilding?

A.) That means you believe ALL success was Tebow's last year (which is absurd).

and

B.) Would mean Denver couldn't offer top tier contracts, which they did with Ryan Clady.

So, I think that's an overall fail.

BroncoBeavis
07-27-2012, 10:40 PM
Your butthurt level is amazing.

Anyone who thinks the team would be better off with Tebow than all time great is a complete moron.

And it would "handicap" rebuilding?

A.) That means you believe ALL success was Tebow's last year (which is absurd).

and

B.) Would mean Denver couldn't offer top tier contracts, which they did with Ryan Clady.

So, I think that's an overall fail.

This team will be better for two years with PM. No question. Just like the 2008 Packers would've been better with Brett Favre.

Sometimes you take the short term hit for long term gain. Other than PM free agency was a bust. All because they were putting every egg in one $20 million basket.

Stuck in Cali
07-27-2012, 10:56 PM
This team will be better for two years with PM. No question. Just like the 2008 Packers would've been better with Brett Favre.

Sometimes you take the short term hit for long term gain. Other than PM free agency was a bust. All because they were putting every egg in one $20 million basket.

What else did you want to get in free agency? Think this off season is far from a bust, but time tell. Tebow was not going to be the answer here unless we start playing pop warner then we could of ruled the league. This is the NFL, we needed a top tier passer to compete. Our short term is taken care of, and we might of taken care of the long term with Brock. This could turn out to be the best off season ever for the Broncos. Time will tell.

DENVERDUI55
07-28-2012, 01:07 AM
This team will be better for two years with PM. No question. Just like the 2008 Packers would've been better with Brett Favre.

Sometimes you take the short term hit for long term gain. Other than PM free agency was a bust. All because they were putting every egg in one $20 million basket.

You make this easy. You realize Denver could get out after this next year right?. You also realize in your heart tebow just can't throw to save his life. Have you ever seen any ****ty qb get so much pub for his garbage mechanics and passing? You act like Denver blew draft pick after draft pick for manning. It's quite obvious your a teblower.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-28-2012, 06:46 AM
People still interact with Beavis? Huh.

Play2win
07-28-2012, 07:17 AM
Tim Tebow should be in the Olympics, because he doesn't throw the football, he shotputs it.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-28-2012, 07:54 AM
This team will be better for two years with PM. No question. Just like the 2008 Packers would've been better with Brett Favre.

Sometimes you take the short term hit for long term gain. Other than PM free agency was a bust. All because they were putting every egg in one $20 million basket.

What was the long term option this year? Sooner or later you'll realize tebow is not a starting QB. Jets realized it after one camp. No manning would've meant a sure 3-5 win season. Barkley sweepstakes.

BroncoBeavis
07-28-2012, 08:03 AM
You make this easy. You realize Denver could get out after this next year right?.

Good luck selling this whole business as a win if it comes to that. Complete franchise implosion if things go that badly.

Have you ever seen any ****ty qb get so much pub for his garbage mechanics and passing?

I heard this all right up to the draft. Then we were told "Plan B" was a kid who, the best can be said about him "Throws like Philip Rivers." Setting aside the fact that he never won much, has zero experience under center (remember all that concern about NFL pro-style offenses), oh and is noted for having issues under pressure. Win.

If things go so badly as to fall to BrockO in 2013, catastrophic failure is the only thing that could describe this offseason.

It's quite obvious your a teblower.

Tebow fan from now on for sure. Can't help but root for the guy.

CEH
07-28-2012, 08:17 AM
Tim "throw the rock Mitch" Tebow
The more things change the more they stay the same

BroncoBeavis
07-28-2012, 08:19 AM
What was the long term option this year? Sooner or later you'll realize tebow is not a starting QB. Jets realized it after one camp. No manning would've meant a sure 3-5 win season. Barkley sweepstakes.

How people can still be touting camp champs after last year's fiasco is beyond me.

Not just before any games are played, but even before preseason starts.

Play2win
07-28-2012, 08:52 AM
PMFM has a good 5 years of dominant play left in him.

Play2win
07-28-2012, 08:55 AM
One can't hit the broad side of a barn, the other can nail each window, at a great distance, of that said barn.

Play2win
07-28-2012, 08:56 AM
Or, individually hit each glass or pane, in said window, of that said barn.

oubronco
07-28-2012, 09:01 AM
"We always talk the opportunities are the greatest right now," Decker said. "We have a future Hall of Famer, a guy who's been to the Super Bowl, an All-Pro, someone who wants to win, too. I think as young receivers, we're hungry, we want to make the most of this opportunity and play our best football this year."

Catching Manning's passes is a thrill for a group of guys who loved Tim Tebow's passion but weren't exactly fans of his erratic passing.


http://www.14news.com/story/19133259/manning-searching-for-timing-with-his-new-targets

BroncoBeavis
07-28-2012, 10:19 AM
"We always talk the opportunities are the greatest right now," Decker said. "We have a future Hall of Famer, a guy who's been to the Super Bowl, an All-Pro, someone who wants to win, too. I think as young receivers, we're hungry, we want to make the most of this opportunity and play our best football this year."

Catching Manning's passes is a thrill for a group of guys who loved Tim Tebow's passion but weren't exactly fans of his erratic passing.


http://www.14news.com/story/19133259/manning-searching-for-timing-with-his-new-targets




I doubt Peyton would've been fans of their erratic catching either. But hey they're young. And I heard something once about young players being erratic sometimes.

yerner
07-28-2012, 12:04 PM
this thread is great. or sad. it's one of those.

oubronco
07-28-2012, 01:19 PM
Tebow, working exclusively with the second team, took 12 snaps in team drills. He completed only three of eight passes in the padless practice, taking a "sack" on a play in which he scrambled from one side of the field to the other.

The play seemed to take forever. As it unfolded, some fans screamed, "Throw the ball!"

When the play finally ended, one fan screamed, "That's why you're No. 2."

LongDongJohnson
07-28-2012, 01:37 PM
Tebow, working exclusively with the second team, took 12 snaps in team drills. He completed only three of eight passes in the padless practice, taking a "sack" on a play in which he scrambled from one side of the field to the other.

The play seemed to take forever. As it unfolded, some fans screamed, "Throw the ball!"

When the play finally ended, one fan screamed, "That's why you're No. 2."

Still cant throw. Glad we got rid of the virgin. Man it feels good to have a real qb playing for us.

R-Mac
07-28-2012, 01:57 PM
Still cant throw. Glad we got rid of the virgin. Man it feels good to have a real qb playing for us.

The Broncos had a real QB when Orton was the starter. I wonder why they got rid of him.

Blueflame
07-28-2012, 02:20 PM
The Broncos had a real QB when Orton was the starter. I wonder why they got rid of him.

Orton always had limitations athletically... he was never going to be an elite starter even under ideal circumstances with an above average supporting cast. Some of us knew this (that Orton was mediocre at best) when he was unable to supplant Brian Griese as the Bears' starter... or to clearly outshine Rex Grossman... long before McDaniels decided he'd do as a starting QB.

DBroncos4life
07-28-2012, 02:47 PM
The Broncos had a real QB when Orton was the starter. I wonder why they got rid of him.

Hilarious!LOLROFL!:giggle:

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-28-2012, 02:52 PM
How people can still be touting camp champs after last year's fiasco is beyond me.

Not just before any games are played, but even before preseason starts.

How you can still think he's starting QB talent is beyond me.

R-Mac
07-28-2012, 03:23 PM
Orton always had limitations athletically... he was never going to be an elite starter even under ideal circumstances with an above average supporting cast. Some of us knew this (that Orton was mediocre at best) when he was unable to supplant Brian Griese as the Bears' starter... or to clearly outshine Rex Grossman... long before McDaniels decided he'd do as a starting QB.

I did not express myself as well as I'd like to. To be more specific, the Broncos had a conventional pocket QB in Kyle Orton. The kind of QB that can at least throw the ball. Not a great QB, but a real one. So, I wonder why a 1-4 team decided to replace a conventional QB with a guy that struggles to find open targets and can't throw with consistency. Unless they decided to throw the season away and suck for Luck, giving the angry fans what they were asking for. Why would a 1-4 team improve and win games with a fake QB that can't throw?

Stuck in Cali
07-28-2012, 03:32 PM
What do you think if Tebow was involved in a similar situation that Tiger went through. Maybe not the exact circumstances. Think he would fall harder and faster, cause people have him as a saviour of sorts.

I really do hope he is the person he is portrayed to be. I wish him well In life. But he sure does suck as a pro QB.

TonyR
07-28-2012, 03:39 PM
In addition to getting heckled, Sal Paolantonio reports that Tebow was "wobbly" in passing drills...

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8208779/new-york-jets-tim-tebow-greeted-hecklers-first-public-training-camp-drills

razorwire77
07-28-2012, 03:49 PM
Still think the kid could be an absolute monster H-Back and or specialized player in the NFL. He's instinctive in space, an amazing athlete for his size in space and an absolute load to bring down. The Jets will be very happy with him if they use him exclusively as a jumbo package Brad Smith. Things will get really convoluted though when Sanchez ****s the bed about week 7 or so.

Br0nc0Buster
07-28-2012, 03:56 PM
I did not express myself as well as I'd like to. To be more specific, the Broncos had a conventional pocket QB in Kyle Orton. The kind of QB that can at least throw the ball. Not a great QB, but a real one. So, I wonder why a 1-4 team decided to replace a conventional QB with a guy that struggles to find open targets and can't throw with consistency. Unless they decided to throw the season away and suck for Luck, giving the angry fans what they were asking for. Why would a 1-4 team improve and win games with a fake QB that can't throw?

Because both qbs were terrible
The difference was one was leading the league in interceptions before he was pulled, while one did a good job of limiting turnovers during our winning streak

We went from getting terrible qb play that lead to multiple turnovers to getting terrible qb play but at least was not leading to multiple turnovers a game

Once the turnovers started up again though the wins stopped

But it is so bizarre how not a single GM in the NFL realizes the awesome franchise potential that Tebow possesses

I mean I guess they didnt watch the games since it was so obvious Tebow was the reason for any success we had last year

R-Mac
07-28-2012, 04:21 PM
Unfortunately for him, Tebow is now perceived as a trick, a gimmick. A RB that can eventually throw some passes down the field. His development as a QB is going down the drain. For the good of his future as a QB, if he really wants to be a QB, all this wildcat and zone-read option crap must be erased. No one sees Michael Vick as a wildcat or option QB, not even when he was an erratic passer for the Falcons. The same goes to the other NFL QBs that can run. There is only one way, and it's the hard way: Tebow must learn a pro-style offense and be able to play in the pocket like the other QBs. His ability to run is a plus that allows improvisation depending on what happens after the snap. Cam Newton is the enhanced, perfected Tebow, the real dual threat that can run for a lot of yards and also play like a pocket passer. Maybe such transformation can still happen. It might take 2, 3, 4 years. Maybe it will never happen. So far, it looks like he will continue to be a circus freak among QBs.

peacepipe
07-28-2012, 04:22 PM
Because both qbs were terrible
The difference was one was leading the league in interceptions before he was pulled, while one did a good job of limiting turnovers during our winning streak

We went from getting terrible qb play that lead to multiple turnovers to getting terrible qb play but at least was not leading to multiple turnovers a game

Once the turnovers started up again though the wins stopped

But it is so bizarre how not a single GM in the NFL realizes the awesome franchise potential that Tebow possesses

I mean I guess they didnt watch the games since it was so obvious Tebow was the reason for any success we had last yearyeah,NFL teams never do their homework on players. they never watch tape or anything...not. They all saw the samething franchise potential as long as he's not playing QB,maybe TE or HB.

DENVERDUI55
07-28-2012, 04:48 PM
I did not express myself as well as I'd like to. To be more specific, the Broncos had a conventional pocket QB in Kyle Orton. The kind of QB that can at least throw the ball. Not a great QB, but a real one. So, I wonder why a 1-4 team decided to replace a conventional QB with a guy that struggles to find open targets and can't throw with consistency. Unless they decided to throw the season away and suck for Luck, giving the angry fans what they were asking for. Why would a 1-4 team improve and win games with a fake QB that can't throw?

As others said we won TO battle, played good defense/ST at times, and got LUCKY as can be. If GMs and coaches around the league thought he had long term potential he would of fetched a lot higher draft pick than he did.

R-Mac
07-28-2012, 05:34 PM
As others said we won TO battle, played good defense/ST at times, and got LUCKY as can be. If GMs and coaches around the league thought he had long term potential he would of fetched a lot higher draft pick than he did.

Tebow's long-term potential and his trade value are a different story. I'm just discussing what happened last year during the season. In my opinion, it's hard to be 100% sure that Denver got the best possible value for Tebow, simply because the trade happened in 1 day. Manning signed on March 20th and Tebow was traded on March 21st. I mean, the Broncos not even tried to play hardball and let the offers flow. Elway just wanted Tebow out ASAP because Manning was in the house. I would not even have offered a 4th round pick since the desperation was big enough to get a deal done in 24h. Maybe the Broncos would have started negotiations with a 3rd team and a 3rd round pick could have been part of the deal if they were willing to wait for a week or two.

oubronco
07-28-2012, 07:48 PM
The Broncos had a real QB when Orton was the starter. I wonder why they got rid of him.

Hilarious! LOL

broncosteven
07-28-2012, 10:35 PM
Orton always had limitations athletically... he was never going to be an elite starter even under ideal circumstances with an above average supporting cast. Some of us knew this (that Orton was mediocre at best) when he was unable to supplant Brian Griese as the Bears' starter... or to clearly outshine Rex Grossman... long before McDaniels decided he'd do as a starting QB.

Orton gave his best but his best for reserved for getting Jack'ed up on Jack and coke.

Orton had Griese's heart after Denver tried to trade him away only fail to get any value for him and after that then say "we trust you to be our QB, here is the ball". Orton didn't care after that and his play showed.

Then they were forced to start Timmy and he did some things on the ground but could not hit the broadside of a barn through the 1st 55 min and then with the playoffs on the line he lost the last 4 games. Sure Timmy redemmed himself with the Steel-girrzz game but even then he started slow before he got it going and needed help on D to keep the game close at the end.

I am glad we have PM now and hope The Blizzard of Oz can take over for PMFM once he is done playing.

bowtown
07-28-2012, 11:02 PM
Tebow's long-term potential An d his trade value are a different story. I'm just discussing what happened last year during the season. In my opinion, it's hard to be 100% sure that Denver got the best possible value for Tebow, simply because the trade happened in 1 day. Manning signed on March 20th and Tebow was traded on March 21st. I mean, the Broncos not even tried to play hardball and let the offers flow. Elway just wanted Tebow out ASAP because Manning was in the house. I would not even have offered a 4th round pick since the desperation was big enough to get a deal done in 24h. Maybe the Broncos would have started negotiations with a 3rd team and a 3rd round pick could have been part of the deal if they were willing to wait for a week or two.

You do realize that, as important as you think you are, the team doesn't notify you and the press every time they start contacting other teams about trading one of their players, right?

And you're right, some team would have definitely given us more. Like Jacksonville who actually chose drafting a punter over making a better offer for Tebow.

errand
07-28-2012, 11:10 PM
Sometimes you take the short term hit for long term gain. Other than PM free agency was a bust. All because they were putting every egg in one $20 million basket.

What long term gain did you honestly see with a guy who struggled to hit on half of his passes?

Free agency was a bust? We signed Tamme, who caught 67 passes in 10 games as Colts #1 TE....that projects to 107 catches in 16 games. We signed an above average to good safety in Adams, we dumped Goodman for Porter which was an upgrade, and we also signed Drayton Florence to give us a dependable vet to compete for nickel back....add in Manning and FA was a alot more successful than you're butt hurt ass thinks.

R-Mac
07-28-2012, 11:19 PM
You do realize that, as important as you think you are, the team doesn't notify you and the press every time they start contacting other teams about trading one of their players, right?

I did not know I was so important. Thanks. I wish the team would notify me before trades, so I could tell them, for example, that it's dumb to make trades such as Gaffney for Jeremy Jarmon.

And you're right, some team would have definitely given us more. Like Jacksonville who actually chose drafting a punter over making a better offer for Tebow.

So, an extended period of negotiations would not have upgraded the compensation because the Jaguars decided to draft a punter in the 3rd round. It makes a lot of sense, you're really smart.

errand
07-28-2012, 11:22 PM
When the play finally ended, one fan screamed, "That's why you're No. 2."

I'm wondering if the fan meant as in the depth chart or the quality of his passing....

maven
07-29-2012, 12:32 AM
Tebow's long-term potential and his trade value are a different story. I'm just discussing what happened last year during the season. In my opinion, it's hard to be 100% sure that Denver got the best possible value for Tebow, simply because the trade happened in 1 day. Manning signed on March 20th and Tebow was traded on March 21st. I mean, the Broncos not even tried to play hardball and let the offers flow. Elway just wanted Tebow out ASAP because Manning was in the house. I would not even have offered a 4th round pick since the desperation was big enough to get a deal done in 24h. Maybe the Broncos would have started negotiations with a 3rd team and a 3rd round pick could have been part of the deal if they were willing to wait for a week or two.

Tebow's potential went down the drain imo when his coach was fired. If coach mac and tebow was still here, we might have seen him developed into a real qb. Now he's off to another system and it's known he's going to be used as a gimmick. Tony Sparano is the OC? Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious! His pro career, as a QB, is going down the drain.

maven
07-29-2012, 12:37 AM
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/07/29/sports/web_photos/tony_sparano--300x450.jpg

This is the guy who is going to develop Tebow?


hahahhhhaahahhahahahahahahahah


oh mannnnnnnnnnn


hahahahahahahahahahhaahahahhahahaahah


hahahahahhaahhahaha

cutthemdown
07-29-2012, 12:41 AM
Tebow was getting booed in practice the other day. Missing throws all over the field.

Stuck in Cali
07-29-2012, 12:43 AM
Tebow's potential went down the drain imo when his coach was fired. If coach mac and tebow was still here, we might have seen him developed into a real qb. Now he's off to another system and it's known he's going to be used as a gimmick. Tony Sparano is the OC? Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious! His pro career, as a QB, is going down the drain.

Honesty I don't think be would of develop into a solid QB. We would of just had to suffer through the pain of watching him try, or I sould say others try to make him what he is not.

Blueflame
07-29-2012, 01:03 AM
I did not express myself as well as I'd like to. To be more specific, the Broncos had a conventional pocket QB in Kyle Orton. The kind of QB that can at least throw the ball. Not a great QB, but a real one. So, I wonder why a 1-4 team decided to replace a conventional QB with a guy that struggles to find open targets and can't throw with consistency. Unless they decided to throw the season away and suck for Luck, giving the angry fans what they were asking for. Why would a 1-4 team improve and win games with a fake QB that can't throw?

This question is highly disingenuous... everyone knows why Orton was benched. Any time a mediocre starting QB struggles.... while a very popular, overhyped but untested and inexperienced backup sits behind him on the bench... there is going to be some percentage of the fan base that wants to see what the kid can do. Ultimately it doesn't matter though, does it? Peyton Manning is an elite QB... he can consistently put the football precisely where it needs to be. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what consistency in the passing game can do for our offense.

Go Broncos!

Blueflame
07-29-2012, 01:20 AM
Orton gave his best but his best for reserved for getting Jack'ed up on Jack and coke.

Orton had Griese's heart after Denver tried to trade him away only fail to get any value for him and after that then say "we trust you to be our QB, here is the ball". Orton didn't care after that and his play showed.

Then they were forced to start Timmy and he did some things on the ground but could not hit the broadside of a barn through the 1st 55 min and then with the playoffs on the line he lost the last 4 games. Sure Timmy redemmed himself with the Steel-girrzz game but even then he started slow before he got it going and needed help on D to keep the game close at the end.

I am glad we have PM now and hope The Blizzard of Oz can take over for PMFM once he is done playing.

In retrospect, it was... not the best of management decisions... that left the Broncos in a situation where Kyle Orton could ever have a possibility of winning the starting job (a situation where we had no one else on the roster who was clearly a better QB). I'm very glad we have a better starting QB going into the 2012 season.

Drek
07-29-2012, 04:53 AM
What long term gain did you honestly see with a guy who struggled to hit on half of his passes?

1. him becoming QB directly coincided with our running game becoming the best in the league.

2. him becoming QB directly coincided with our defense giving up far less points.

3. He quite literally carried this team to it's first playoff win since 2005, only the second playoff win post-Elway.

His completion percentage is a statistic. The team's results when he's on the field are something else entirely.

Tebow was getting booed in practice the other day. Missing throws all over the field.
Those same fans boo their #1 QB on a weekly basis, FYI.

Also, last year it was "Tebow can't hit the broad side of a barn, looks like the 4th string QB behind Orton, Quinn, and Weber". Now it's "Tebow looked wobbly". Sounds like improvement. BTW, who won more games last year, Tebow or the three guys who all looked better in camp?

More importantly, last I heard Caleb Hanie wasn't lighting up the skies with his areal display during camp himself. On the regular season last year Hanie was actually a worse thrower than Tebow too. Yet a 4th round pick is all it took for us to dump a young, exceptional athlete who was clearly willing to play a mixed role while he develops in favor of a waste of space #2 QB.

Keep Tebow and Manning's health is slightly less worrisome because you can just go Tebow-cat offense for a few weeks and likely still win games. Now we get to watch Caleb Hanie crap his pants all over the field if Manning misses a single start in 2012.

DENVERDUI55
07-29-2012, 08:39 AM
1. him becoming QB directly coincided with our running game becoming the best in the league.

2. him becoming QB directly coincided with our defense giving up far less points.

3. He quite literally carried this team to it's first playoff win since 2005, only the second playoff win post-Elway.

His completion percentage is a statistic. The team's results when he's on the field are something else entirely.


Those same fans boo their #1 QB on a weekly basis, FYI.

Also, last year it was "Tebow can't hit the broad side of a barn, looks like the 4th string QB behind Orton, Quinn, and Weber". Now it's "Tebow looked wobbly". Sounds like improvement. BTW, who won more games last year, Tebow or the three guys who all looked better in camp?

More importantly, last I heard Caleb Hanie wasn't lighting up the skies with his areal display during camp himself. On the regular season last year Hanie was actually a worse thrower than Tebow too. Yet a 4th round pick is all it took for us to dump a young, exceptional athlete who was clearly willing to play a mixed role while he develops in favor of a waste of space #2 QB.

Keep Tebow and Manning's health is slightly less worrisome because you can just go Tebow-cat offense for a few weeks and likely still win games. Now we get to watch Caleb Hanie crap his pants all over the field if Manning misses a single start in 2012.
It was pretty obvious that their was a ton of luck in Tebows wins more than his play. In fact the luck was needed to overcome his awful one trick pony. Tebow had so far to go as a passer it was time to move on. I personally remember him losing 4 of last 5 games playing awful and getting us blown out several times down the stretch.

DBroncos4life
07-29-2012, 08:39 AM
1. him becoming QB directly coincided with our running game becoming the best in the league.

2. him becoming QB directly coincided with our defense giving up far less points.

3. He quite literally carried this team to it's first playoff win since 2005, only the second playoff win post-Elway.

His completion percentage is a statistic. The team's results when he's on the field are something else entirely.


Those same fans boo their #1 QB on a weekly basis, FYI.

Also, last year it was "Tebow can't hit the broad side of a barn, looks like the 4th string QB behind Orton, Quinn, and Weber". Now it's "Tebow looked wobbly". Sounds like improvement. BTW, who won more games last year, Tebow or the three guys who all looked better in camp?

More importantly, last I heard Caleb Hanie wasn't lighting up the skies with his areal display during camp himself. On the regular season last year Hanie was actually a worse thrower than Tebow too. Yet a 4th round pick is all it took for us to dump a young, exceptional athlete who was clearly willing to play a mixed role while he develops in favor of a waste of space #2 QB.

Keep Tebow and Manning's health is slightly less worrisome because you can just go Tebow-cat offense for a few weeks and likely still win games. Now we get to watch Caleb Hanie crap his pants all over the field if Manning misses a single start in 2012.
4. Tebow play at QB is why he is now a special teamer for the Jets.

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2012, 08:57 AM
1. him becoming QB directly coincided with our running game becoming the best in the league.


Him becoming QB directly coincided with our passing game becoming the worst in the league.

BroncoBeavis
07-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Him becoming QB directly coincided with our passing game becoming the worst in the league.

Not if you look at YPA. Look at things per attempt and Tebow compared pretty favorably to most young QB's. You can't lead the league in total yards with the fewest passing attempts.

McDman
07-29-2012, 09:17 AM
It's crazy people still think he is going to be anything better than mediocre.

Clearly the fans know more than all of those NFL teams that showed zero interest in trading for him.

Beantown Bronco
07-29-2012, 09:18 AM
Not if you look at YPA. Look at things per attempt and Tebow compared pretty favorably to most young QB's. You can't lead the league in total yards with the fewest passing attempts.

OK. Let's just ignore the 37 different stats that show the passing game as the worst in the league and focus on the 1 that says it's middle of the pack (when compared only with other so-called "young" QBs). Only with Tebow.....

Play2win
07-29-2012, 09:32 AM
It was pretty obvious that their was a ton of luck in Tebows wins more than his play. In fact the luck was needed to overcome his awful one trick pony. Tebow had so far to go as a passer it was time to move on. I personally remember him losing 4 of last 5 games playing awful and getting us blown out several times down the stretch.

The sure novelty or his skills bought us a few wins, that and Prater's leg :~ohyah!:

But, it was a short dance.

errand
07-29-2012, 09:49 AM
1. him becoming QB directly coincided with our running game becoming the best in the league.

take away his 660 yards rushing and we rank 11th or 12th.....but since the fact is he did rush for that many yards, I'll instead point out how successful do you think we'd have been if we weren't the 31st ranked passing team. I'm gonna guess that if we finish in the middle of the pack (11th thru 20th) in rushing we'll still be a tough offense to stop because of one solitary player being able to put the ball where it needs to be, exactly when it needs to be there

2. him becoming QB directly coincided with our defense giving up far less points.

I'll argue his rise to stardom during the streak was due to the defense keeping the games closer after the return to health of Dumervil and DJ. Our special teams playing on a Pro Bowl level. Look at the Jets game for instance....our defense and ST's kept the Broncos at or near midfield damn near the entire game, while Tebow led the team to more 3 and outs than Orton could even dream of.

3. He quite literally carried this team to it's first playoff win since 2005, only the second playoff win post-Elway.

Now you're really talking craziness....he was A reason...but he was not the SOLE reason we won. As I pointed out, ST's played very well....defense played very well for the most part, coming up with timely sacks, or turnovers, and of course we had a few magic moments where the opposing teams had brain farts like not being able to recover an onside kick, allowing a sack and subsequent fumble, running out of bounds stopping the clock, and then fumbling the ball in OT, and not to mention playing 9 guys in the box.....


His completion percentage is a statistic. The team's results when he's on the field are something else entirely.

leading the league in 3 and outs was a statistic...so was being ranked 31st in passing....being one of the worse at converting 3rd downs and only averaging 10-13 points per game are statistics too. Unfortunately for him, they're stats that the powers that be didn't want to be associated with heading into 2012.


Those same fans boo their #1 QB on a weekly basis, FYI.

Yeah, they're New Yorkers...they booed Phil Simms too and he won a SB. Your boy isn't gonna get any love from them...they hate southeners and QB's that can't throw the ball or stay healthy.....the kid should've chosen to go back to Jax where he's adored.

Also, last year it was "Tebow can't hit the broad side of a barn, looks like the 4th string QB behind Orton, Quinn, and Weber". Now it's "Tebow looked wobbly". Sounds like improvement. BTW, who won more games last year, Tebow or the three guys who all looked better in camp?

Well, we don't know how many games Weber or Quinn would have won...they never saw the field. then again they didn't have thousands of adoring Bieber-esque fans crying for them to play, or threatening boycotts and putting up billboards either.

And he still can't hit the broad side of a barn...just because his passes wobble now and aren't bouncing when they hit it doesn't mean he's "improved"...and the one day he decided to "pull the trigger" he did well vs. Steelers...but he's gone back to the way he's always played throughout his entire football career...if option #1 ain't wide open he takes off running. That **** worked in pee-wee, middle school, high school and college where he was bigger and stronger than the rest of the guys on the field....it won't work in the NFL where 280 lb. players can run almost as fast as he can.

More importantly, last I heard Caleb Hanie wasn't lighting up the skies with his areal display during camp himself. On the regular season last year Hanie was actually a worse thrower than Tebow too. Yet a 4th round pick is all it took for us to dump a young, exceptional athlete who was clearly willing to play a mixed role while he develops in favor of a waste of space #2 QB.

Really? You think pointing out Hanie's being a sucky QB makes Tebow suckage more tolerable? Caleb Hanie is a camp arm...and a clip board holder. The only thing that'll save his job in Denver is if we carry 3 QB's on the roster. Brock will most likely be the #2 guy when camp breaks and the regular season begins...

Keep Tebow and Manning's health is slightly less worrisome because you can just go Tebow-cat offense for a few weeks and likely still win games. Now we get to watch Caleb Hanie crap his pants all over the field if Manning misses a single start in 2012.

Now here's the problem you and your clown posse have yet to realize...the "circus" as you're affectionately called by everyone who thinks you guys are just bat-ass crazy hero worshipers is why Tebow is no longer on the team. The powers that be came to the conclusion months ago that they were not going thru the same crazy **** of Tebow-fans threatening to attack QB's with tire irons, boycotting games, putting up billboards, writing letters to Dove Valley, proposing hypothetical scenarios where Fox and Elway die in plane crashes and how much better the team would be with them dead. Face it...Tebow was done in by poor mechanics and his adoring fans that couldn't face reality.




In Bold....

errand
07-29-2012, 09:55 AM
Not if you look at YPA. Look at things per attempt and Tebow compared pretty favorably to most young QB's. You can't lead the league in total yards with the fewest passing attempts.

Can't lead the league in passing attempts if you can't throw the ball either.....

errand
07-29-2012, 10:04 AM
It's crazy people still think he is going to be anything better than mediocre.

Clearly the fans know more than all of those NFL teams that showed zero interest in trading for him.

It's understandable to a small degree...hell I even thought Griese was gonna be something special after he threw for 19 TD's and only 4 INT's that one season...but he clearly wasn't the answer as time went on and we got to see him play more.

I understand believing he'd develop when he first took over the team...but as the season wore on and he wasn't getting better save for an exception or two, well...it was time to cut loose of the project, especially when a future HoF 4 time MVP SB winning QB became a FA.

BroncoBeavis
07-29-2012, 10:23 AM
Now here's the problem you and your clown posse have yet to realize...the "circus" as you're affectionately called by everyone who thinks you guys are just bat-ass crazy hero worshipers is why Tebow is no longer on the team.

Classic. The "Best Chance to Win"ers who keep bringing digging Tebow threads out of the graveyard, then claim it's everyone else who just can't let Tebow go.

Reality is Tebow made a bunch of pussy-hurt Ortonites look like morons last year.

That's possible...then again it's possible too that Orton beats Tebow out, and he plays well, Fox fixes our defense and OL and we win enough games to make playoffs.

You sound like you're of the mind set that the coaching staff has it in for certain players and will play inferior ones over them for spite?

Hilarious!

Cry all you want. But that kind of Moron stain doesn't wipe quite so easily.

errand
07-29-2012, 10:29 AM
Hilarious!

Cry all you want. But that kind of Moron stain doesn't wipe quite so easily.

I think you need to look up the word "possible" in Webster's dictionary...I think you'll see that it doesn't mean definitely or etched in stone.....but keep ****ing that chicken dude....you're hero is nothing more than a below average shot putter that can run....hopefully he'll get another chance with another team next year so you can keep carrying that torch for him in your heart.

BroncoBeavis
07-29-2012, 11:03 AM
I think you need to look up the word "possible" in Webster's dictionary...I think you'll see that it doesn't mean definitely or etched in stone.....but keep ****ing that chicken dude....you're hero is nothing more than a below average shot putter that can run....hopefully he'll get another chance with another team next year so you can keep carrying that torch for him in your heart.

I think we've established, at least in your case, that it was roughly synonymous with "in my dreams"

errand
07-29-2012, 11:23 AM
I think we've established, at least in your case, that it was roughly synonymous with "in my dreams"

Wow, those last few rebuttal's must have really stuck in your ass hard, eh?

Think about this...you're busting me for defending Orton's ability to throw the ball over Tebow's.....because you got butt hurt trying to defend Tebow's ability over Manning's.


See, when it comes to throwing the ball accurately Orton >> Tebow...when it comes to throwing the ball accurately.....

Manning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Orton>>Tebow.

you on the other hand think differently because you're a bat-**** crazy nuthugger who's got a man-crush on Tebow.

Fedaykin
07-29-2012, 11:31 AM
Think about this...you're busting me for defending Orton's ability to throw the ball over Tebow's.....because you got butt hurt trying to defend Tebow's ability over Manning's.


Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot....

DENVERDUI55
07-29-2012, 11:54 AM
TIM Tebow himself would look down on beavis's activities when he is alone in bedroom sacking off to his TIM Tebow fathead.

oubronco
07-29-2012, 01:35 PM
Anybody see anything wrong here?

http://themajors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/a_610x408.jpg

Play2win
07-29-2012, 01:47 PM
Anybody see anything wrong here?

http://themajors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/a_610x408.jpg

No steroids?!?

oubronco
07-29-2012, 01:48 PM
Not a Bronco!!!!!!!!!

Blueflame
07-29-2012, 02:16 PM
Anybody see anything wrong here?

http://themajors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/a_610x408.jpg

Looks like the uni has a captain's "C" on it... somehow I highly doubt that the Jest have a punt protector (or a backup QB) as a team captain.

orangeatheist
07-29-2012, 02:26 PM
Anybody see anything wrong here?

http://themajors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/a_610x408.jpg

Wrong jersey number; and the aforementioned captain's "C" and the non-Samson-like biceps.

Pose looks right, tho'...

errand
07-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Looks like the uni has a captain's "C" on it... somehow I highly doubt that the Jest have a punt protector (or a backup QB) as a team captain.

well it's a photo-shopped pic....or he was named their special teams captain.LOL

BroncoBeavis
07-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Wow, those last few rebuttal's must have really stuck in your ass hard, eh?

Think about this...you're busting me for defending Orton's ability to throw the ball over Tebow's.....because you got butt hurt trying to defend Tebow's ability over Manning's.


You couldn't find a single example. But we've got three solid years of you spreading your cheeks on here hoping Kyle would stop by someday to make a deposit.

Bit hey, if this whole 36 year old free agent QB thing doesn't work out, at least you'll have the hope of T Romo getting hurt so you can enjoy (marginal) football again.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-29-2012, 02:34 PM
Man, I remember when Drek wrote stuff that wasn't completely in the bag for Tebow. When he gave honest and logical assessments of the play on the field, and wouldn't make ridiculous statements. Those were good days.

This is not the Drek we used to know.

errand
07-29-2012, 02:37 PM
You couldn't find a single example. But we've got three solid years of you spreading your cheeks on here hoping Kyle would stop by someday to make a deposit.

Bit hey, if this whole 36 year old free agent QB thing doesn't work out, at least you'll have the hope of T Romo getting hurt so you can enjoy (marginal) football again.

You might want to see a proctologist to soothe that aching butthurt of your boy being dumped like yesterday's trash.

DBroncos4life
07-29-2012, 02:42 PM
Anybody see anything wrong here?

http://themajors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/a_610x408.jpg

Something is off with the pixels in this picture.

Blueflame
07-29-2012, 03:37 PM
well it's a photo-shopped pic....or he was named their special teams captain.LOL

Gotta be photoshopped... you can tell by the pixels. :P

BroncoBeavis
07-29-2012, 05:56 PM
You might want to see a proctologist to soothe that aching butthurt of your boy being dumped like yesterday's trash.

I recall a line from "Hoosiers"....

"I would hope you would cheer for who we are...not for who we are not"

Orton is learning a new system...with new recievers, albeit, more talented than he had in Chicago. Jay was in Mike's for 3 years and didn't really make a big splash until his 3rd year in system.

As for the head coach...you seem to forget who was running Patriots offense when Tom Brady tossed 50 TD's...

Granted Orton won't toss 50...but he could very well top 20. McDaniels likes to throw the ball...and his scheme has helped make a perrenial Pro Bowler out of dimunitive Wes Welker...now imagine what it can do for Eddie Royal?

Bottom line...root for the Broncos...regardless of who their coach or QB is.

LOL

errand
07-29-2012, 09:46 PM
ts: Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.
Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%
Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%



LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL

Missouribronc
07-29-2012, 09:49 PM
It baffles my mind that anyone would want Tebow over Manning.

When I told that to my Chiefs friends, they thought you were stupid.

BroncoBeavis
07-29-2012, 10:01 PM
ts: Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.
Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%
Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%



LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL

Too bad Kyle wasn't on the menu. Then you could've voted your heart.

Someone actually quoted a line from Hoosiers in reference to TEKO. Hilarious!LOL

Jetmeck
07-29-2012, 10:18 PM
You might want to see a proctologist to soothe that aching butthurt of your boy being dumped like yesterday's trash.

take Prozac to get over your unending hatred for a guy that got us into the playoffs ...............

canadianbroncosfan
07-29-2012, 10:23 PM
ts: Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.
Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%
Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%



LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL

.

Fedaykin
07-29-2012, 10:31 PM
Wrong jersey number; and the aforementioned captain's "C" and the non-Samson-like biceps.

Pose looks right, tho'...

Not to mention a freakishly oversized head.

maven
07-30-2012, 01:37 AM
Too bad Kyle wasn't on the menu. Then you could've voted your heart.

Someone actually quoted a line from Hoosiers in reference to TEKO. Hilarious!LOL

You are effin stupid along with the others who would want Tebow over Manning.

maven
07-30-2012, 01:38 AM
take Prozac to get over your unending hatred for a guy that got us into the playoffs ...............

I always wonder about people who think like this. The goal is to win a f'n Super Bowl, not make a f'n playoff game. Thats Charger thinking.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 07:13 AM
You are effin stupid along with the others who would want Tebow over Manning.

Some people have more regard for the Miami Heat approach than others I guess. LOL

Besides the fact that it's too late to rebuild under a 36 year old.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 07:38 AM
Some people have more regard for the Miami Heat approach than others I guess. LOL

Besides the fact that it's too late to rebuild under a 36 year old.

If not for a freakish play at the end of the game, the Arizona Cardinals would've won a SB using such a formula.

barryr
07-30-2012, 07:48 AM
So those that don't like Tebow are still jabbering away about him instead of spending more time being happy with Manning? Yeah, one can see it was never personal in regards to Tebow LOL

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 08:09 AM
If not for a freakish play at the end of the game, the Arizona Cardinals would've won a SB using such a formula.

Except Warner was 33 when the perpetually-losing Cards signed him as a McCown stopgap to Leinart. Warner was never THE plan. It just worked out the way it did because he was far better than Leinart.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 08:28 AM
Except Warner was 33 when the perpetually-losing Cards signed him as a McCown stopgap to Leinart.

Yeah, so? He was a full year older than Manning that entire season leading up to the SB.

Warner was never THE plan. It just worked out the way it did because he was far better than Leinart.

Funny, because Manning isn't THE plan either.

"One guy doesn't win a world championship for you, even though he gives you a hell of a chance to be able to compete," Elway said. "As I told (Manning), my job is to get the best quality people around him, the best coaches to give us the opportunity to win a world championship. It's fun to be able to put that puzzle together, but there are so many different pieces to put in a team that has the ability to win a world championship."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 08:56 AM
Tebow was on sportscenter this morning doing 7 on 7 drills and was scrambling with no pass rush. It was comical as Jaws was like uhh you shouldn't have to scramble Tim there is no pass rush.

GreatBronco16
07-30-2012, 09:01 AM
ts: Who do you want to be our quarterback in 2012.
Peyton Manning
*WARHORSE*, Aftermath, alkemical, alpine, Ambiguous, Archie, Arkansas Bronco, Arkie, Asso Wilson, Atwater His Ass, ayjackson, bendog, Blart, Blueflame, BoiseBluTurf, bombay, bowtown, bronco610, broncocalijohn, Broncojef, BroncoLifer, BroncoMatt, BroncoSojia, Broncos_OTM, Bronkota, campocorto, chawknz, chickennob2, ColoradoBuff, Cpntrips, crawdad, Crushaholic, cutback, cutthemdown, DarkHorse30, DBroncos4life, DENVERDUI55, DenverDynamite, DomCasual, Dos Rios, Drunk idiot kicker, Drunk Monkey, Drunken.Broncoholic, Dukes, Durango, El Minion, elsid13, Endy, enjolras, errand, extralife, Fedaykin, flynzebra, Frisian, ghwk, gmp, GoBroncos DownUnder, GoHAM, gotfredson, GreeleyGrizzley, Gutless Drunk, hkbroncos, hookemhess, Houshyamama, Hulamau, Jack1118son, Jason7730, JCMElway, JCsuperstar, Jekyll15Hyde, kamakazi_kal, Kaylore, KevinJames, Kid A, Killericon, KipCorrington25, lod01, lvbronco, maher_tyler, Majik, maven, mellow mood, Mightysmurf, NFLBRONCO, oubronco, peacepipe, pokenation, Prodigal19, Que, randomtask, Ratboy, razorwire77, rdskier, Requiem, Rohirrim, Rolandftw, Ronnie Tsunami, Sassy, scannon, Schism, Shananahan, Shoemaker, SimonFletcher73, Sinedog, SJ Bronco, Slade, SonOfLe-loLang, SouthStndJunkie, spdirty, Spider, SpringStein, Stagger Lee, STBumpkin, Steve Sewell, stoxman, StugotsIII, Taco John, TheDave, theedge111, thevance_82, Tim, TonyR, Turd_Ferguson, v2micca, vancejohnson82, yerner, Ziggy
127 72.57%
Tim Tebow
55CrushEm, Aardvark, Agamemnon, BabyTO, Broncbow, BroncoBeavis, Broncobiv, broncogary, Broncoman13, Casper Bronco, Chris, Cito Pelon, ColoradoDarin, crazyhorse, DAN_BRONCO_FAN, Darkdoc, db56, dbfan21, Dedhed, Doggcow, El Jué, go_broncos, GreatBronco16, HighCountryBronco, jacob2125, Jay3, Jesterhole, jet19, jmz313, joe9999, lcbronco, lonestar, MacGruder, Marshall Dumervil, meangene, MileHighMagic, montrose, mustangtoby, myMind, NUB, rbackfactory80, sisterhellfyre, SoCalBronco, TD30, The Moops, TheFullTebow, winstoncup bronco, ~Crash~
48 27.43%



LOL...LOL...LOL...LOL


Can you link to that thread? Cause I sure as hell don't remember ever voting in a poll like that without good reason.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 09:02 AM
Yeah, so? He was a full year older than Manning that entire season leading up to the SB.



Funny, because Manning isn't THE plan either.

"One guy doesn't win a world championship for you, even though he gives you a hell of a chance to be able to compete," Elway said. "As I told (Manning), my job is to get the best quality people around him, the best coaches to give us the opportunity to win a world championship. It's fun to be able to put that puzzle together, but there are so many different pieces to put in a team that has the ability to win a world championship."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream

That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 09:20 AM
That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.

So the highest paid QBs in the league handcuff their team from other positions? That's one position where you throw money at. Being cheap at the QB position equals mediocre to bad results. Paying for a QB leads to superbowls. Granted a punt protector would cost way less. But we would only see about 2-6 completions a game.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 09:24 AM
That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.

I'd rather handcuff my behind the scenes cap guy a little as opposed to handcuffing the other 10 guys on my offense.....you know, the ones who take the field and win games for me.

BroncoInferno
07-30-2012, 09:25 AM
That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.

If we were talking about two QBs of comparable skill/effectiveness you would have a point. But we are not. An elite QB (like Manning) can mask/overcome deficiencies in other areas, while a QB who struggles to pass, convert 1st downs, and score points (Tebow) can amplify them.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 09:26 AM
So the highest paid QBs in the league handcuff their team from other positions? That's one position where you throw money at. Being cheap at the QB position equals mediocre to bad results. Paying for a QB leads to superbowls. Granted a punt protector would cost way less. But we would only see about 2-6 completions a game.

To be honest (and as I've said before) I think Peyton made a huge mistake trying to cash in so heavily if he's really just trying to cement the ol' legacy. John was taking damn near league minimum his last year or two trying to keep all the pieces in place. That's how bad he wanted it.

I'm not saying Manning needed to go that far. But he sure as hell didn't need the richest contract in the league at that point. That has consequences for the whole team. That's obvious.

Unless you're saying John was an idiot for taking next to nothing at the end of his career?

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 09:32 AM
That's nice and all. But paying your QB $4-6 million handcuffs you in other areas a little less than say paying him $18 or 20.

Paying a fullback that much to play QB is what handcuffs the team. Get over it Tebow is the worst passer in the league and nobody is winning it all with him at the helm.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 09:39 AM
To be honest (and as I've said before) I think Peyton made a huge mistake trying to cash in so heavily if he's really just trying to cement the ol' legacy. John was taking damn near league minimum his last year or two trying to keep all the pieces in place. That's how bad he wanted it.

I'm not saying Manning needed to go that far. But he sure as hell didn't need the richest contract in the league at that point. That has consequences for the whole team. That's obvious.

Unless you're saying John was an idiot for taking next to nothing at the end of his career?


Peyton didn't take the richest contract, or he'd be a Titan. And contracts today compared to contracts more than a decade ago is hard to compare.

Tombstone RJ
07-30-2012, 09:40 AM
To be honest (and as I've said before) I think Peyton made a huge mistake trying to cash in so heavily if he's really just trying to cement the ol' legacy. John was taking damn near league minimum his last year or two trying to keep all the pieces in place. That's how bad he wanted it.

I'm not saying Manning needed to go that far. But he sure as hell didn't need the richest contract in the league at that point. That has consequences for the whole team. That's obvious.

Unless you're saying John was an idiot for taking next to nothing at the end of his career?

whatever, Manning's contract is big, yes, but it also is basically a year-to-year contract that protects the team in case of injury. The Broncos have the money to pay Manning and whether you admit it or not, he probably could of asked for a lot more, and gotten it. Other teams like the Titans were willing to pay Manning more but he arguably took less to play for the Broncos. Looking at the Brees contract should give you an idea of what Manning could have got if he wanted more money.

E_Rox
07-30-2012, 10:43 AM
Looking at several sources and the changes to the CBA salary cap accounting, that contract sure didn't hurt this year. Projected cap space for '12 was slightly above $147 mil. Based contracts as of 7/15, the team still had $11.7 to spend, cap number at $135.5. Add the Hillman and Osweiler numbers and there is still $5 mil floating around before any cuts from camp.

The team deferred the carryover from the Cowboys and Redskins punishment to '13 and at least 5 more from this year added to this years cap number for '13 leaves plenty of space for Manning in '13 with no adjustment for new TV deals.

I'll trust the new cap guy already has '13 and '14 budgeted, that's what he's paid to do. I'll buy my boys the new 18 jerseys including the alt ones to help the cause.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 10:59 AM
Paying a fullback that much to play QB is what handcuffs the team. Get over it Tebow is the worst passer in the league and nobody is winning it all with him at the helm.

The numbers I threw out were for Warner's contract going into his SB run. Had nothing to do with Tebow.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 11:21 AM
Peyton didn't take the richest contract, or he'd be a Titan. And contracts today compared to contracts more than a decade ago is hard to compare.

The fact that he could've squeezed some more blood out of a different turnip doesn't really disprove the point.

If you'd like a more modern example, look at the restructure Brady just did this offseason. He restructured down to a cap hit of only $8 million this year. That's less than half of Manning's cap footprint.

And he's two years younger and just got done leading his team to the dance, as opposed to missing a full season with multiple neck surgeries.

Could Tom Brady demand more money? Absolutely. And he'd get it. But he knows getting paid more takes directly away from other investments the team can make to get better.

Drek
07-30-2012, 11:25 AM
Man, I remember when Drek wrote stuff that wasn't completely in the bag for Tebow. When he gave honest and logical assessments of the play on the field, and wouldn't make ridiculous statements. Those were good days.

This is not the Drek we used to know.

Not being an idiot doesn't mean I'm in the bag for Tebow.

Lets go over the facts, AGAIN.

1. Tim Tebow is statistically a better passer than Caleb Hanie (our current #2) IN NEARLY EVERY WAY. He's also far younger and still developing as a passer. So replacing Tebow for Hanie, with very little return, is a net downgrade.

2. In half of Tebow's starts last season (Oakland, both SD games, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Miami) Tim Tebow threw the ball with success. His completion percentage was poor but his overall numbers were strong, resulting in good QB ratings. He wasn't bad at throwing the football last year, he was inconsistent. You can fix inconsistencies.

3. He can run a very streamlined offense that this organization proved last year could win games without much prep time. That is vital for a team that is going to start Peyton Manning, as no other QB has been able to run his offense.

4. Tim Tebow, when put in the right situations, does not turn the ball over, hindering the defense. He lets you play a defense, special teams, and run game oriented style very effectively. This is supposed to be John Fox's wheelhouse and the core of what we're building this franchise towards. Having him as the long term safety net instead of giving him away would have been to the benefit of this franchise.

5. He's inarguably a leader and motivator. Those are traits that you should seek out for all your players, including backups.

Signing Manning was a perfect pathway to put the genie back in the bottle as it where and develop Tebow appropriately. But this org. isn't interested in that because he's not their guy and doesn't fit their mold. That's their prerogative, but it doesn't mean we're better off now that Caleb Hanie is one hard hit away from starting meaningful games for this team.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 11:29 AM
The fact that he could've squeezed some more blood out of a different turnip doesn't really disprove the point.

If you'd like a more modern example, look at the restructure Brady just did this offseason. He restructured down to a cap hit of only $8 million this year. That's less than half of Manning's cap footprint.

And he's two years younger and just got done leading his team to the dance, as opposed to missing a full season with multiple neck surgeries.

Could Tom Brady demand more money? Absolutely. And he'd get it. But he knows getting paid more takes directly away from other investments the team can make to get better.

Patriots cap space and broncos cap space were 2 different things. Spread out money over years of a contract that is basically year to year depending on Mannings health? Wouldn't make much sense

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 11:30 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1997/nflpreview/AFCWEST/broncos.html

By agreeing to restructure his contract, Elway saved the team $3.1 million against the salary cap for this season and provided the room to sign Smith. As a result Elway's base salary this year will be less than $600,000, making him one of the league's lowest-paid starting quarterbacks. "That guy always bails out this team," says defensive end Dan Williams. "He'd do anything to help this team win." Smith will do his part too. His six-sack total last season was his lowest since 1988, his rookie year, but would have ranked second on the '96 Broncos. "Not only will he be helping us," Elway points out, "but now we don't have to face him twice a year either.

What a dumbass Elway was. He thought you needed cap space to bring in the best talent. I guess that was before the Mane though, so there was no way we could've enlightened him.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 11:37 AM
Not being an idiot doesn't mean I'm in the bag for Tebow.

Lets go over the facts, AGAIN.

1. Tim Tebow is statistically a better passer than Caleb Hanie (our current #2) IN NEARLY EVERY WAY. He's also far younger and still developing as a passer. So replacing Tebow for Hanie, with very little return, is a net downgrade.

2. In half of Tebow's starts last season (Oakland, both SD games, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Miami) Tim Tebow threw the ball with success. His completion percentage was poor but his overall numbers were strong, resulting in good QB ratings. He wasn't bad at throwing the football last year, he was inconsistent. You can fix inconsistencies.

3. He can run a very streamlined offense that this organization proved last year could win games without much prep time. That is vital for a team that is going to start Peyton Manning, as no other QB has been able to run his offense.

4. Tim Tebow, when put in the right situations, does not turn the ball over, hindering the defense. He lets you play a defense, special teams, and run game oriented style very effectively. This is supposed to be John Fox's wheelhouse and the core of what we're building this franchise towards. Having him as the long term safety net instead of giving him away would have been to the benefit of this franchise.

5. He's inarguably a leader and motivator. Those are traits that you should seek out for all your players, including backups.

Signing Manning was a perfect pathway to put the genie back in the bottle as it where and develop Tebow appropriately. But this org. isn't interested in that because he's not their guy and doesn't fit their mold. That's their prerogative, but it doesn't mean we're better off now that Caleb Hanie is one hard hit away from starting meaningful games for this team.


1. Hanie was not added to replace Tebow for long term future. But Brock was.
2. Nothing showed me that his inconsistencies were going away. In fact they got worse as the season went on, putting up 3 horrible performances in the last 3 games of the year.
3. Tebow running any plays in a manning offense? A college offense will never win a Future Super Bowl. Ever.
4. How many fumbles did he have? Crucial fumbles at the wrong time? Fumble=ints=turnovers
5. He is a motivator. And now leader of special teams.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 11:44 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1997/nflpreview/AFCWEST/broncos.html



What a dumbass Elway was. He thought you needed cap space to bring in the best talent. I guess that was before the Mane though, so there was no way we could've enlightened him.

Did that bronco team have cap space like this years team did? 2 different situations. Cap space was the exact reason we upgraded the most important position on the field.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 11:46 AM
4. How many fumbles did he have? Crucial fumbles at the wrong time? Fumble=ints=turnovers.

Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 12:01 PM
Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.

So he was fortunate enough to get back the other fumbles he had. I see what you did here :)

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 12:03 PM
Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.

There you go again. Comparing Tebow to a QB nearly everyone hated and felt was among the worst in the league. Awesome.

Stuck in Cali
07-30-2012, 12:05 PM
Tim Tebow lost 7 fumbles in 16 starts with the Broncos.

Over his last 16 starts, Kyle Orton lost 6.

Not even getting into the massive INT differential.

Can't throw a int, if you can't throw a pass.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 12:05 PM
So he was fortunate enough to get back the other fumbles he had. I see what you did here :)

Has to do with the nature of a running fumble vs a ****ting your pants fumble. :)

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 12:07 PM
Can't throw a int, if you baby throw a pass.

Tebow's INT percentage is better than most in the NFL.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 12:12 PM
Tebow's INT percentage is better than most in the NFL.

Probably true. But most QBs don't have 8 passing attempts in a game.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 12:16 PM
Can't throw a int, if you baby throw a pass.

But apparently those baby throws can torch the #1 defense in the playoffs. Again... GTFO!

peacepipe
07-30-2012, 12:21 PM
But apparently those baby throws can torch the #1 defense in the playoffs. Again... GTFO!

ever heard the saying ~ a dead clock is right twice a day?

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 12:22 PM
Probably true. But most QBs don't have 8 passing attempts in a game.

You can't still get you head around that fact that the offense was designed for Tim... hence he did what he was told to do. Yes some of it had to do with his unwillingness to check down when the low percentage play wasn't there. Still look a Tebow's 3 games in his rookie seasons. A good amount of passes... the problem that persisted was his accuracy.

But anyway... I still don't get all this talk about Tim when clearly he is on another team. I think people are just nervous that maybe... just maybe... he will pan out as the great QB McD envisioned when we picked them.

vancejohnson82
07-30-2012, 12:22 PM
this thread sucks

peacepipe
07-30-2012, 12:25 PM
tebow will be out of the league after this season.(assuming he tries to stay a QB)

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 12:28 PM
this thread sucks

agree... and it's the same usual subjects that keep bashing him and defending when clearly he ain't on the team.

Here in my country there is a saying that goes: He who critics much (like beating a dead horse) is because he doesn't do much.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 12:29 PM
tebow will be out of the league after this season.(assuming he tries to stay a QB)

K... can you tell me the Big Lotto numbers?! Since apparently you have the gift of seeing the future. Clown!

vancejohnson82
07-30-2012, 12:29 PM
agree... and it's the same usual subjects that keep bashing him and defending when clearly he ain't on the team.

Here in my country there is a saying that goes: He who critics much (like beating a dead horse) is because he doesn't do much.

well put....its like having a thread about Chris Simms on the first page

who cares

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 12:36 PM
agree... and it's the same usual subjects that keep bashing him and defending when clearly he ain't on the team.

Here in my country there is a saying that goes: He who critics much (like beating a dead horse) is because he doesn't do much.

What I see is Beavis and myself talking about it. Why does that bother you?

peacepipe
07-30-2012, 12:38 PM
K... can you tell me the Big Lotto numbers?! Since apparently you have the gift of seeing the future. Clown!

I ought to play the lotto,about everything I've said regarding tebow has come true.I said he would be a bust when he was drafted...true. I said last yr during the 6 or 7 game win streak that he was not the QBOTF & that he wouldn't even be on the team come 2012 season...also turned out to be true.

about the only thing I was wrong about was that I didn't believe the denver broncos would win 6 in a row. I didn't think we would have so much luck swing our way.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 12:43 PM
What I see is Beavis and myself talking about it. Why does that bother you?

It bothers me because all you hater wanted him gone so you could speak about other aspects of the team... like the Manning acquisition and stuff like that. But 4 months later you guys put more time into bashing Tim than talking about those who are on our team right now. I could care less if it was only you or Beavis... but you know that is not true. What really bothers me is seeing the thread pop up to the top of the 1st page. It's like the haters still can't find closure after 4 months. Guess this will keep on going until Tim hangs his cleats.

Move on people!!!

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 12:46 PM
I ought to play the lotto,about everything I've said regarding tebow has come true.I said he would be a bust when he was drafted...true. I said last yr during the 6 or 7 game win streak that he was not the QBOTF & that he wouldn't even be on the team come 2012 season...also turned out to be true.

about the only thing I was wrong about was that I didn't believe the denver broncos would win 6 in a row. I didn't think we would have so much luck swing our way.

Well I would take that bust over your boy Orton anytime of the week Nostradamus. Ohhh and clearly he is far away from a bust. That bust moved Elway over on a bunch of Bronco's records. Keep on hating bro!

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 12:53 PM
It bothers me because all you hater wanted him gone so you could speak about other aspects of the team... like the Manning acquisition and stuff like that. But 4 months later you guys put more time into bashing Tim than talking about those who are on our team right now. I could care less if it was only you or Beavis... but you know that is not true. What really bothers me is seeing the thread pop up to the top of the 1st page. It's like the haters still can't find closure after 4 months. Guess this will keep on going until Tim hangs his cleats.

Move on people!!!

So the most intriguing talked about love hate bronco in years would magically disappear out of everyones mouth the day he leaves? Come on. People blindly love him and hate with ferocious frowns. No way is the subject going to disappear. You hear more about the hate right now cause the jets see what they have. If he was looking great the lovers would talk about him just as much. Its ridiculous to assume this subject would go away without a full season of results. If you are bothered by one little thread popping up here, well I suggest you don't watch any football related shows this season cause if tebow somehow starts the comparisons, what ifs, and over analyzing will saturate your TV

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 12:57 PM
But anyway... I still don't get all this talk about Tim when clearly he is on another team.

You have 6 posts in this thread today. Zero when he was on our team. Just sayin.

OrangeCrush2724
07-30-2012, 12:57 PM
He's nothing more than a gimmick Qb that better learn how to tackle fast...

Irish Stout
07-30-2012, 01:00 PM
It bothers me because all you hater wanted him gone so you could speak about other aspects of the team... like the Manning acquisition and stuff like that. But 4 months later you guys put more time into bashing Tim than talking about those who are on our team right now. I could care less if it was only you or Beavis... but you know that is not true. What really bothers me is seeing the thread pop up to the top of the 1st page. It's like the haters still can't find closure after 4 months. Guess this will keep on going until Tim hangs his cleats.

Move on people!!!

You realize there are still remnants of the Cutler debate going on? We're clearly not ready to move off of Tebow yet and it only has been a few months with no actual football played.

Some of us, like me, will continue to watch and analyze Tebow just to try and determine whether or not he actually does have what it takes to make it long term as a starting QB. I am truly curious, with no blind love or malevolence.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 01:01 PM
But apparently those baby throws can torch the #1 defense in the playoffs. Again... GTFO!

Let's keep perpetuating this myth. When a unit is missing 3 of its top 5 guys, it's clearly not the same unit that was ranked #1 during the regular season.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 01:05 PM
So the most intriguing talked about love hate bronco in years would magically disappear out of everyones mouth the day he leaves? Come on. People blindly love him and hate with ferocious frowns. No way is the subject going to disappear. You hear more about the hate right now cause the jets see what they have. If he was looking great the lovers would talk about him just as much. Its ridiculous to assume this subject would go away without a full season of results. If you are bothered by one little thread popping up here, well I suggest you don't watch any football related shows this season cause if tebow somehow starts the comparisons, what ifs, and over analyzing will saturate your TV

Hey I know what Tim is and what he can become. I know that we will be fed by Tebow news 24/7... it just amusing that you guys couldn't wait for him to be off the team to move on to other more pressing maters... when clearly you guys can't. I am tired of you guys repeating over and over the same stats and arguments time after time over the last 4 months.

It's training camp... a new season is about to begin... we have one of the top 5 QB in the history of the sport leading our team and a bunch of exciting young talent.

I agree that Tim being who he is will always be a subject of discussion around here... but why keep on beating on a dead horse?

BTW... Tim had his best throwing day today in pads. You don't see the "lovers" coming in and pasting that all over the place. But anytime he has a bad practice or something with the jets, you guys come running in here to bump this thread up.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 01:06 PM
Let's keep perpetuating this myth. When a unit is missing 3 of its top 5 guys, it's clearly not the same unit that was ranked #1 during the regular season.

So? So where we on offense. And what 3 of the top 5 guys are you talking about? Woodley was the only one that fits that category... the other two are old Jurassic vets that wouldn't start on many of the other teams. Lebeu is, and will always be the reason that defense is so good.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 01:07 PM
You have 6 posts in this thread today. Zero when he was on our team. Just sayin.

Wait what? I have always been a huge Tebow supporter. I just don't go full retard when talking about the subject. I actually finally started posting in the mane because of him. But just like when when shipped Cutler out of town... I stopped paying attention to him 24/7.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 01:12 PM
Wait what?

What don't you get? You complain about people posting in this thread and perpetuating the Tebow argument after he's gone, but you've done nothing but keep it going. You're as guilty as anyone. You don't have a single post in this thread that dates back to when he was actually ON the Broncos, but now, months later, you've got around 10 posts in one day. It's ironic.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 01:16 PM
What don't you get? You complain about people posting in this thread and perpetuating the Tebow argument after he's gone, but you've done nothing but keep it going. You're as guilty as anyone. You don't have a single post in this thread that dates back to when he was actually ON the Broncos, but now, months later, you've got around 10 posts in one day. It's ironic.

Ok... I get you point now. Agree... but it's only because, like I previously stated, I am tired of this thread popping up to the top of the first page day after day.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 01:17 PM
So? So where we on offense. And what 3 of the top 5 guys are you talking about? Woodley was the only one that fits that category... the other two are old Jurassic vets that wouldn't start on many of the other teams. Lebeu is, and will always be the reason that defense is so good.

Ummmm, what?!? Ryan Clark led their freaking team in tackles. He'd start for every team in the league. And Lawrence Timmons? Jurassic? He was only 25 years old at the time and is a beast, who would also start for most if not every team in the league.

You are just making stuff up now.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 01:21 PM
Ummmm, what?!? Ryan Clark led their freaking team in tackles. He'd start for every team in the league. And Lawrence Timmons? Jurassic? He was only 25 years old at the time and is a beast, who would also start for most if not every team in the league.

You are just making stuff up now.

Forgot about Timmons... my bad. I kept thinking about Hampton and Clark. And sorry but Clark is an overrated S. Leading the team in tackles is not an indication of how good you are. We have learned that with DJ.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 01:21 PM
Probably true. But most QBs don't have 8 passing attempts in a game.

And yet in his first 16 starts with limited opportunity, he still managed more yards per attempt than Kyle Orton's career average.

Or Jake Plummer's. Or Sam Bradford's.

Pretty good for the worst QB ever to grace an NFL Stadium.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Forgot about Timmons... my bad. I kept thinking about Hampton and Clark. And sorry but Clark is an overrated S. Leading the team in tackles is not an indication of how good you are. We have learned that with DJ.

When you're leading the #1 defense in the entire league in tackles, I think that means a tad bit more than leading a bottom feeder unit in tackles. By definition, the unit can't be ranked #1 if their leading tackler is making all his tackles 5-10 yards downfield.

Regardless of how good you think he is, he is light years better than his backup.....you know, the guy who essentially cost them the game in OT.

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 01:33 PM
And yet in his first 16 starts with limited opportunity, he still managed more yards per attempt than Kyle Orton's career average.

Or Jake Plummer's. Or Sam Bradford's.

Pretty good for the worst QB ever to grace an NFL Stadium.

Why you keep jumping to that stat is comical. It's all you got. So what if he only completed 2 passes out of 10 for 50 yds. He is hof averaging 25 yds a completions.

Heyneck
07-30-2012, 01:34 PM
When you're leading the #1 defense in the entire league in tackles, I think that means a tad bit more than leading a bottom feeder unit in tackles. By definition, the unit can't be ranked #1 if their leading tackler is making all his tackles 5-10 yards downfield.

Regardless of how good you think he is, he is light years better than his backup.....you know, the guy who essentially cost them the game in OT.

Good post... but it also has to do with the scheme they run and the way if flushes plays to a certain spot of the defense. And still... Lebeu cost them the game with the game plan he called. He had the blueprint that was given to him by the league on that final month of the season. Starting with the Pats. He just decided to challenge him to pass and got burned. Tebow abused that defense with only DT to throw to. They could be missing 3 players... but either way... what we had that day according to all, had no chance in hell of beating them. But yeah... once he beat them all this injured players crap starts popping up. Just give credit where credit is do.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 02:04 PM
Why you keep jumping to that stat is comical. It's all you got. So what if he only completed 2 passes out of 10 for 50 yds. He is hof averaging 25 yds a completions.

Yards per completion is different than yards per attempt.

When you look at any of Tebow's stats per ATTEMPT, he actually looks pretty good for a young QB.

For instance, he has more yards per attempt, fewer INT's per attempt and more TD's per attempt than Andy Dalton.

Statistically better in almost every measurable way, other than in number of attempts... which was a function of gameplan.

Beantown Bronco
07-30-2012, 02:16 PM
Statistically better in almost every measurable way, other than in number of attempts... which was a function of gameplan.

and him "passing up" the opportunity to pass in favor of scrambling when his receivers apparently aren't as open as he'd like.....which he has been criticized for already in NY. Can't blame the gameplan for that.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 02:26 PM
and him "passing up" the opportunity to pass in favor of scrambling when his receivers apparently aren't as open as he'd like.....which he has been criticized for already in NY. Can't blame the gameplan for that.

That's a part of it, sure. But that's also offset by gameplans that rarely passed on 1st down, when a QB's job is easiest.

8 straight first-down runs to open a game? Unheard of. 21 of 22 first down runs in the playoffs? Will probably never happen again in the history of the game.

Plus the fact that anything remotely close to 8 passing plays a game makes it difficult for anyone to be in a rhythm.

Drek
07-30-2012, 03:14 PM
1. Hanie was not added to replace Tebow for long term future. But Brock was.
So if Manning gets hurt Osweiler is going in? Sounds like a great way to ruin another project QB. Or to play Hanie and lose every game he starts.

2. Nothing showed me that his inconsistencies were going away. In fact they got worse as the season went on, putting up 3 horrible performances in the last 3 games of the year.
It was mid-season with a passing offense designed for his predecessor. How much improvement did you expect to see? The off-season is when he could have made strides forward as a passer.

3. Tebow running any plays in a manning offense? A college offense will never win a Future Super Bowl. Ever.
Who's asking him to on either count? Hanie can't run any plays in Manning's offense. Neither can Osweiler. No one available to back up Manning has the ability to make changes on the fly that Manning's offense is predicated on. But the Tebow Cat can be rolled out in a week and win games. We did it last year. This year we would have had even more of a foundation to build on, and a likely somewhat improved passing angle from Tebow.

So if Manning gets hurt and misses the middle 4 games on the schedule, who do you think is a better bet to win us games? Hanie or Osweiler trying to fill Manning's shoes or Tebow running the Tebow Cat? That is what I'm talking about. Tebow is an ideal bridge should Manning need to miss time prior to the playoffs.

4. How many fumbles did he have? Crucial fumbles at the wrong time? Fumble=ints=turnovers
So? He's a young player, they risk the ball. At least he wasn't prone to both fumbles and picks, like both of the previous Bronco starting QBs were.

5. He is a motivator. And now leader of special teams.
And here you completely ruin any ability to have an intelligent discussion because you personally don't like the guy and need to turn it into a personal attack against him.

He's their #2 QB. They shipped the FA #2 QB they'd just signed out of town when they brought Tebow in. His special teams and wild cat roles for the Jets are the result of a coaching staff not afraid to think outside the box when it comes to putting playmakers on the field. The more important question to ask is why the Broncos apparently had no interest in finding ways for an athlete like Tebow to help us win games in other ways.

Why wasn't he the punt protector for us when he was supposedly 3rd string? Why weren't some wild cat plays built into the offense last pre-season? Why was Tebow treated like an afterthought despite his obvious talents when the football is in his hands?

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 03:15 PM
Yards per completion is different than yards per attempt.

When you look at any of Tebow's stats per ATTEMPT, he actually looks pretty good for a young QB.

For instance, he has more yards per attempt, fewer INT's per attempt and more TD's per attempt than Andy Dalton.

Statistically better in almost every measurable way, other than in number of attempts... which was a function of gameplan.
However it makes you feel by telling yourself he is a good passer when he is awful. No matter how you slice it he is a below average passer and one of the worst in the league.

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 03:27 PM
However it makes you feel by telling yourself he is a good passer when he is awful. No matter how you slice it he is a below average passer and one of the worst in the league.

Yeah yeah. YPA ain't no thang.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/the-importance-of-passing-yards-per-attempt/

The numbers lie. He can't fro spyros.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-30-2012, 03:45 PM
And here you completely ruin any ability to have an intelligent discussion because you personally don't like the guy and need to turn it into a personal attack against him.

He's their #2 QB. They shipped the FA #2 QB they'd just signed out of town when they brought Tebow in. His special teams and wild cat roles for the Jets are the result of a coaching staff not afraid to think outside the box when it comes to putting playmakers on the field. The more important question to ask is why the Broncos apparently had no interest in finding ways for an athlete like Tebow to help us win games in other ways.

Why wasn't he the punt protector for us when he was supposedly 3rd string? Why weren't some wild cat plays built into the offense last pre-season? Why was Tebow treated like an afterthought despite his obvious talents when the football is in his hands?

So saying he's on special teams is hate words? No. It's reality and it's what the jets are doing. They aren't looking at him as a starting QB. Rex and Sparano are inventing some sort of hybrid position, bulking him up. No team is going to put a starting caliber QB on special teams. When he was here I wanted him in at other positions, just like Rex does. To say I personally hate him is ridiculous. I've never met the guy. Not gonna take wispy walks with him either. I don't like him as a starting QB. It ends there. I'm about as conservative as you can get so I value his beliefs and applaud him for it. GTFO sayin I personally hate him.

errand
07-30-2012, 07:25 PM
So if Manning gets hurt Osweiler is going in? Sounds like a great way to ruin another project QB. Or to play Hanie and lose every game he starts.

well Oz is running with the 2nd teamers in camp today....and he throws the ball alot better than Hanie...and Tebow



And here you completely ruin any ability to have an intelligent discussion because you personally don't like the guy and need to turn it into a personal attack against him.

how is it a personal attack to say the guy is now playing special teams? He is playing special teams....


His special teams and wild cat roles for the Jets are the result of a coaching staff not afraid to think outside the box when it comes to putting playmakers on the field. The more important question to ask is why the Broncos apparently had no interest in finding ways for an athlete like Tebow to help us win games in other ways.

Yeah, right...they're thinking outside the box...guess that means we'll see Dustin Keller playing DE, since he is afterall a playmaker and you gotta get him on the field more than when the offense has the ball. Darrelle Revis will start playing WR now because he too is a playmaker, and they need to get their playmakers on the field more.....Face it, he's the punt protector because it's something he can do better than throwing the ball.



in bold

oubronco
07-30-2012, 07:30 PM
Why you keep jumping to that stat is comical. It's all you got. So what if he only completed 2 passes out of 10 for 50 yds. He is hof averaging 25 yds a completions.

He already is in Buttheads mind

errand
07-30-2012, 07:30 PM
when Mark Sanchez hits on 55% of his passes, everyone says he needs to improve...when Tebow hits on 50%, everyone says "See, look at the improvement he's made..."

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 08:16 PM
Yeah yeah. YPA ain't no thang.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/the-importance-of-passing-yards-per-attempt/

The numbers lie. He can't fro spyros.

Lol you cherry pick an article from several years ago that is backhanding 2 HOF QB's because they play for NY for the likes of Delhomme and Pennington? LOL your a joke. Well since you use YPA as your basis why don't you study this list.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS

errand
07-30-2012, 08:22 PM
He also needs to check out this list too....but hey they're just stats. They don't explain why we sucked so much at converting 3rd downs....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_FIRST_DOWN_PERCENTAGE

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 08:34 PM
when Mark Sanchez hits on 55% of his passes, everyone says he needs to improve...when Tebow hits on 50%, everyone says "See, look at the improvement he's made..."

Mark Sanchez just finished his 3rd year starting and still has a career QB rating less than Tim's (75)

Your boy Orton's QB rating through his first 16 games was 59.

So at least we can tell one thing... The Jets have 2 QB's on their roster better than Kyle Orton. Hilarious!

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 08:35 PM
Mark Sanchez just finished his 3rd year starting and still has a career QB rating less than Tim's (75)

Your boy Orton's QB rating through his first 16 games was 59.

So at least we can tell one thing... The Jets have 2 QB's on their roster better than Kyle Orton. Hilarious!

LOL your using QB rating now? Why don't you compare Elway's career rating against Griese?

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 08:43 PM
Lol you cherry pick an article from several years ago that is backhanding 2 HOF QB's because they play for NY for the likes of Delhomme and Pennington? LOL your a joke. Well since you use YPA as your basis why don't you study this list.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_AVERAGE_YARDS

Let me simple it up for ya.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13200/tim-tebow Career Average YPA 6.75
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14012/andy-dalton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8520/kyle-orton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12482/mark-sanchez Career Average YPA 6.51

And the reason YPA is important is self-explanatory. People who worship at the altar of completion percentage think going 3 for 3 for 9 yards is better than going 1 for 3 for 12. But that makes no sense in relation to the game.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 08:43 PM
LOL your using QB rating now? Why don't you compare Elway's career rating against Griese?

Just wait till Tebow starts returning kicks so Beavis can toss that stat out vs every other QB in modern history.

broncosteven
07-30-2012, 08:45 PM
and him "passing up" the opportunity to pass in favor of scrambling when his receivers apparently aren't as open as he'd like.....which he has been criticized for already in NY. Can't blame the gameplan for that.

Timmy is hoping that only passing on 4th down via the jump pass when teams aren't looking for it will up his vague Passing yards per completion stat

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-jets-training-camp-tim-tebow-practices-jump-pass-073012

I am so glad this side show is gone. It is like a circus going from a 1 trick pony to Circ de Solie (sp?)

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 08:46 PM
Let me simple it up for ya.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13200/tim-tebow Career Average YPA 6.75
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14012/andy-dalton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8520/kyle-orton Career Average YPA 6.59
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12482/mark-sanchez Career Average YPA 6.51

And the reason YPA is important is self-explanatory. People who worship at the altar of completion percentage think going 3 for 3 for 9 yards is better than going 1 for 3 for 12. But that makes no sense in relation to the game.

What's Tebow's 3rd down conversion percentage?

BroncoBeavis
07-30-2012, 08:48 PM
LOL your using QB rating now? Why don't you compare Elway's career rating against Griese?

Sorry, we were told Elway can't be compared to modern QB's. Unless it reflects well on him, then it's ok.

baja
07-30-2012, 08:49 PM
in bold


Tebow will continue to be a force in the NFL If you don't see that you haven't been paying attention. Elway and the Broncos decided to go in a more traditional direction but that doesn't mean that Tebow has become chopped liver. Tebow is a rare individual who will succeed.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 08:51 PM
Tebow will continue to be a force in the NFL If you don't see that you haven't been paying attention. Elway and the Broncos decided to go in a more traditional direction but that doesn't mean that Tebow has become chopped liver. Tebow is a rare individual who will succeed.

So he is the next Hester?