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Butterscotch Stallion
06-05-2012, 11:53 PM
I can't see the future but considering I've been calling teblow a bust since he was drafted, I may have an unkown talent.
But what I can see,is what is in front of me. I said he was going to be a bust when he was still at florida,I didn't know how bad he would be, that he would make alex smith look like a joe montana.
wan't it Elway who said if teblow were to succeed as a QB he would have to improve on completion % & 3rd down %? look up teblows stats,he never showed any improvement.

so...you can't see into the past either?you are theelusivekyleorton of ****ty posters.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-05-2012, 11:54 PM
Says the guy who can't let go of a player who's been gone for months and thought what Tebow did here was "quarterbacking."

Sorry dumbass. Your stupidity level is dangerously high. Step away from the keyboard.

should I use manure or manufactured fertilizer when gardening?

LongDongJohnson
06-06-2012, 12:29 AM
This thread is still alive? Not surprising since tebow does suck pretty hard.

I told yall all last season that teblow was garbage. Good to see threads like this. People are finally seeing the light and my faith in humanity is restored.

Archer81
06-06-2012, 01:01 AM
This thread is still alive? Not surprising since tebow does suck pretty hard.

I told yall all last season that teblow was garbage. Good to see threads like this. People are finally seeing the light and my faith in humanity is restored.


Ah, the i told you so.

Always classy.

:Broncos:

Blueflame
06-06-2012, 01:30 AM
should I use manure or manufactured fertilizer when gardening?

Seems to me like you have an ample and inexhaustible supply of the manure... :P

(can't believe you "teed one up" like that... LOL)

lolcopter
06-06-2012, 07:14 AM
Lots of dip****s itt really hate playoff wins

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 08:13 AM
Lots of dip****s itt really hate playoff wins

Who knew you could have a wining record, change the culture of a loser, throw for 300 yards in a playoff game and be a bust who sucks.

This place is full of so many fags, the servers should be housed in west hollywood.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-06-2012, 08:21 AM
should I use manure or manufactured fertilizer when gardening?

No idea. Ask someone who gardens.

See, this is a football board.

I'm glad we had this talk.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 08:38 AM
No idea. Ask someone who gardens.

See, this is a football board.

I'm glad we had this talk.

I was just trying to make you feel as through you had something to add since your football takes are forever invalid. It would be like someone who voted for george bush in 2004 talking about whats good for the country.

Its over, man..game over.

bronco militia
06-06-2012, 08:42 AM
this thread delivers! ;D

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 08:42 AM
Who knew you could have a wining record, change the culture of a loser, throw for 300 yards in a playoff game and be a bust who sucks.

So clearly if he's so superb a QB, he must be a starting QB for someone......anyone.....right now, right? Surely, he couldn't be relegated to special teams, right?

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 08:49 AM
So clearly if he's so superb a QB, he must be a starting QB for someone......anyone.....right now, right? Surely, he couldn't be relegated to special teams, right?

that is a weak argument. If other coaches are as dumb as fox was last year at the beginning, thats no ones fault. When Tebow takes over the starting spot what will be your argument then?.

steve young says hi.

alkemical
06-06-2012, 08:50 AM
should I use manure or manufactured fertilizer when gardening?

If you were asking me - it would depend on your applicatoin.

if you're doing hydroponic food production - some nutrients are synthetic. It doesn't mean they are "bad". Using organic material in a hydroponic system can be a bad thing if your using aero or NFT (it can clog important parts, and they have a higher rate of failure).

If you were doing a soil garden, outside - it'd tell you to use aged compost to till in - or brew some compost teas to apply to the soil to help build it up. Throwing in some worm castings is a great addition also.

The better your soil, the better your plants will do. Using things like miracle grow are built upon a recurring revenue concept. The more you use it, the more you need to use it. (It strips out the good stuff in the soil.)

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 08:54 AM
that is a weak argument. If other coaches are as dumb as fox was last year at the beginning, thats no ones fault.

So ALL 32 head coaches in the NFL are just dumb? They ALL have it wrong?

And I'M the one with a weak argument?

When Tebow takes over the starting spot what will be your argument then?

My argument isn't based off of fiction. It's based off of the here and now. NOT ONE team in the entire NFL thinks he's a starting quality QB. NOT ONE. Hell, the Jets who have a stiff at QB even went out of their way to confirm that there's not even a competition at the position. THAT'S how bad he is viewed right now.

Could things change in the future? Sure. But that's the future. Right now, it's not looking good for the guy.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 09:01 AM
So ALL 32 head coaches in the NFL are just dumb? They ALL have it wrong?

And I'M the one with a weak argument?



My argument isn't based off of fiction. It's based off of the here and now. NOT ONE team in the entire NFL thinks he's a starting quality QB. NOT ONE. Hell, the Jets who have a stiff at QB even went out of their way to confirm that there's not even a competition at the position. THAT'S how bad he is viewed right now.

Could things change in the future? Sure. But that's the future. Right now, it's not looking good for the guy.


Its perception vs.reality. I'm able to form my own opinions...i could care less what most of them think.

All 32 coaches passed on terrell davis, shanon sharp, and tom brady..must of them said tebow would not win in the nfl. Most thought the steelers would win too.



Hell what did the steelers defensive coach think of tebow?

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 09:02 AM
All 32 coaches pissed on terrell davis, shanon sharp, and tom brady.

Bad analogy. The draft is a crap shoot.

None of them got "pissed on" once they were in their 3rd seasons and people got to see them play.

Tombstone RJ
06-06-2012, 09:03 AM
Who knew you could have a wining record, change the culture of a loser, throw for 300 yards in a playoff game and be a bust who sucks.

This place is full of so many fags, the servers should be housed in west hollywood.

lol

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 09:05 AM
Bad analogy. The draft is a crap shoot.

None of them got "pissed on" once they were in their 3rd seasons and people got to see them play.

so, performance on the field can change what coaches think of a player?

You think three years is s good amount of time to see what a player has?


Yes, you did just make your whole counter argument, but I'd expect nothing less

Tombstone RJ
06-06-2012, 09:06 AM
Its perception vs.reality. I'm able to form my own opinions...i could care less what most of them think.

All 32 coaches passed on terrell davis, shanon sharp, and tom brady..must of them said tebow would win in the nfl. Most thought the steelers would win too.



Hell what did the seekers defensive coach think of tebow?

haha, you're funny.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 09:08 AM
haha, you're funny.

And awesome, you forgot awesome.

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 09:11 AM
so, performance on the field can change what coaches think of a player?

Obviously. It's not debatable.

You think three years is s good amount of time to see what a player has?

A good amount of time? Sure. Enough time to make a permanent statement about a guy's ability? Nope. Some guys clearly do take more time to "get it". I've never said otherwise. I have judged the here and now. That is all. I've never said "he sucks now and is guaranteed to suck forever". In fact, I've never even said "he sucks now".

Yes, you did just make your whole counter argument, but I'd expect nothing less

No I didn't. You obviously fail to comprehend my argument. But I'd expect nothing less.

Drunk Monkey
06-06-2012, 09:22 AM
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/167278.gif

Jay3
06-06-2012, 09:35 AM
Could things change in the future? Sure. But that's the future. Right now, it's not looking good for the guy.

I love it when they hedge their bets.

"I said things could change in the future!!! I called it!"

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 09:38 AM
I love it when they hedge their bets.

"I said things could change in the future!!! I called it!"

Fine, here you go: If I had to bet/make a prediction, I'd say he'll never be a full time starter in this league. He may get a few spot starts if a starter goes down with injury, but he'll never take over the role and be the #1 going into a season and remain there for a season.

Jay3
06-06-2012, 09:40 AM
Fine, here you go: If I had to bet/make a prediction, I'd say he'll never be a full time starter in this league. He may get a few spot starts if a starter goes down with injury, but he'll never take over the role and be the #1 going into a season and remain there for a season.

Well, that's pretty non-hedgy I must admit.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 10:00 AM
Obviously. It's not debatable.



A good amount of time? Sure. Enough time to make a permanent statement about a guy's ability? Nope. Some guys clearly do take more time to "get it". I've never said otherwise. I have judged the here and now. That is all. I've never said "he sucks now and is guaranteed to suck forever". In fact, I've never even said "he sucks now".



No I didn't. You obviously fail to comprehend my argument. But I'd expect nothing less.

The point is coaches a can be wrong. you used coaches opinions as an argument.

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 10:08 AM
The point is coaches a can be wrong. you used coaches opinions as an argument.

Part of my argument. Not the whole argument.

And, sure, coaches CAN be wrong. But the odds of all 32 being COMPLETELY wrong about a guy that's been in the league for a few years and had ample opportunity to "show his stuff" isn't very good.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-06-2012, 10:14 AM
I was just trying to make you feel as through you had something to add since your football takes are forever invalid. It would be like someone who voted for george bush in 2004 talking about whats good for the country.

Its over, man..game over.

It sure is. You should probably end yourself, as you've outlived your usefulness and relevance.

baja
06-06-2012, 10:14 AM
Fine, here you go: If I had to bet/make a prediction, I'd say he'll never be a full time starter in this league. He may get a few spot starts if a starter goes down with injury, but he'll never take over the role and be the #1 going into a season and remain there for a season.

I would say the chances are about 50 - 50. I would not count Tim Tebow out, he is a very determined young man with skills.

peacepipe
06-06-2012, 10:29 AM
I would say the chances are about 50 - 50. I would not count Tim Tebow out, he is a very determined young man with skills. not at QB. does he have the skills to be a gimmick player? yes. Teblow will never be a starting QB in the NFL again.

lolcopter
06-06-2012, 10:32 AM
not at QB. does he have the skills to be a gimmick player? yes. Teblow will never be a starting QB in the NFL again.

I give it until week 6

Powderaddict
06-06-2012, 10:35 AM
not at QB. does he have the skills to be a gimmick player? yes. Teblow will never be a starting QB in the NFL again.

So now that he's done it once, let's move the goalposts to "again".

When he does it again, then where will the goalposts be moved to?

peacepipe
06-06-2012, 10:35 AM
I give it until week 6I don't think sanchez loses his starting job. at the end of the day sanchez is still the better QB.

lolcopter
06-06-2012, 10:37 AM
I don't think sanchez loses his starting job. at the end of the day sanchez is still the better QB.

Better passer, horse**** QB

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 10:50 AM
Better passer, horse**** QB

People are having orgasms over Tebow's one playoff victory. Sanchez has been to multiple AFC Championship Games.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 11:22 AM
People are having orgasms over Tebow's one playoff victory. Sanchez has been to multiple AFC Championship Games.

With a sb caliber team. Tebow did it with a terrible team. Once again, perception vs. reality. Come to earth...the waters warm.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 11:24 AM
It sure is. You should probably end yourself, as you've outlived your usefulness and relevance.

what are your feelings on ammonia tablets?

Beantown Bronco
06-06-2012, 11:25 AM
With a sb caliber team. Tebow did it with a terrible team. Once again, perception vs. reality. Come to earth...the waters warm.

Yup. Another coach that just doesn't get it. Won't even let Tebow compete for a job with a guy that supposedly sucks big time.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 11:58 AM
Yup. Another coach that just doesn't get it. Won't even let Tebow compete for a job with a guy that supposedly sucks big time.

Now you get it! Just wait until tebow takes over that team...

19Morton77
06-06-2012, 12:32 PM
Tebow can possibly be one of the worst pocket passers in the NFL but he did not suck at wins. However ****ty he was throwing the ball many times, he found a way to win in 2011. Not sure if that means it gets better for him against teams or he improves his throws. If so, we got and used him when his stock was high. Unfortunately, his stock was worth about a 4th round draft pick.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-06-2012, 12:32 PM
what are your feelings on ammonia tablets?

I feel like you should take a handful, swallow them, and let us know how that works out.

peacepipe
06-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Now you get it! Just wait until tebow takes over that team...

LOL it will be like his last few games when he lost 4 out of 5. hate to break the news to you but teblow & the style offense he runs will catch nobody by surprise. when you also consider that the team that wrote the book on defeating teblow plays in the same division(NE) he'll be lucky to remain starter for more than 1 game. I almost forgot buffalo,another team that knows teblow.

peacepipe
06-06-2012, 12:45 PM
So now that he's done it once, let's move the goalposts to "again".

When he does it again, then where will the goalposts be moved to?

nowhere,he'll never be a starter in the nfl again. BTW for me to have moved the goal post must mean at some time a couple yrs ago I said he would never be a starter. which I never said. what I've always said is that he would be a bust,which has proven to be true.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 01:08 PM
nowhere,he'll never be a starter in the nfl again. BTW for me to have moved the goal post must mean at some time a couple yrs ago I said he would never be a starter. which I never said. what I've always said is that he would be a bust,which has proven to be true.

Ok stupid, how is he a bust?

Butterscotch Stallion
06-06-2012, 01:09 PM
I feel like you should take a handful, swallow them, and let us know how that works out.

I'll have to wait until I'm hungry.

Right now I'm stuffed on your tears.

Tombstone RJ
06-06-2012, 01:19 PM
lulz this thread delivers...

Drunk Monkey
06-06-2012, 03:04 PM
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa383/tica5656/Deer-popcorn.gif

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-06-2012, 03:46 PM
I'll have to wait until I'm hungry.

Right now I'm stuffed on your tears.

Yawn.

You'll have to do better.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 07:03 AM
Ok stupid, how is he a bust?

really? you really got to ask a question like that? a 1st round QB that has been traded to be another teams back up QB & special teams player for what was it a 4th rd pick if i remember correctly & you actually have the nerve to ask me, How is he a bust?

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 07:30 AM
really? you really got to ask a question like that? a 1st round QB that has been traded to be another teams back up QB & special teams player for what was it a 4th rd pick if i remember correctly & you actually have the nerve to ask me, How is he a bust?

A late 1st round QB only taken in the first because of the guy who drafted him got dooped into thinking another team was taking him. A 1st round pick who never got a chance to compete to be the starter in Denver. So lets get the bust story straight for once.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 07:37 AM
A late 1st round QB only taken in the first because of the guy who drafted him got dooped into thinking another team was taking him. A 1st round pick who never got a chance to compete to be the starter in Denver. So lets get the bust story straight for once.

You do know he started for more than half the season last year, yes?

Also, kind of important to note that it does not matter WHY he was drafted where he was drafted, but THAT he was drafted where he was drafted at all. He was a first round pick. Period. He was traded for a fourth round pick. Period. He will now play backup QB and personal protector on the punt team.

First round pick.

I'm not sure where you get the "he never got a chance to compete" whiny bull**** narrative, but it ignores an awful lot of facts.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 07:38 AM
A late 1st round QB only taken in the first because of the guy who drafted him got dooped into thinking another team was taking him. A 1st round pick who never got a chance to compete to be the starter in Denver. So lets get the bust story straight for once.BS,you've got a pretty selective memory or you simply don't know what the **** you are talking about. Tebow went in to TC last season as our starter,but sucked so bad he lost it to kyle orton. You don't seem to remember denver putting orton on the trading block. the only thing that kept orton from being traded to the dolphins was his contract. you don't get a bigger opportunity then that. denver was willing to trade away the starter they had in orton to clear the way for teblow,but yet teblow never got a fair shot at starter!?

Jay3
06-07-2012, 07:48 AM
You do know he started for more than half the season last year, yes?

Also, kind of important to note that it does not matter WHY he was drafted where he was drafted, but THAT he was drafted where he was drafted at all. He was a first round pick. Period. He was traded for a fourth round pick. Period. He will now play backup QB and personal protector on the punt team.

First round pick.

I'm not sure where you get the "he never got a chance to compete" whiny bull**** narrative, but it ignores an awful lot of facts.

He was fine. He would have taken this team back to the playoffs again next year, with a better record than 8-8.

He just wasn't Peyton Manning, that's all.

And the price tag was low because of the timing. He was sold in a fire sale. Everybody knows if you want maximum value for a QB you wait until somebody needs one. For example, the Broncos got ZILCH for Orton, because of the timing. But if things were different, they might have gotten more.

lolcopter
06-07-2012, 07:53 AM
Peacepipe is in lurve

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 08:02 AM
He was fine. He would have taken this team back to the playoffs again next year, with a better record than 8-8.

He just wasn't Peyton Manning, that's all.

And the price tag was low because of the timing. He was sold in a fire sale. Everybody knows if you want maximum value for a QB you wait until somebody needs one. For example, the Broncos got ZILCH for Orton, because of the timing. But if things were different, they might have gotten more. the price tag was low because no one wanted him. it doesn't matter when a team releases/trades a QB. if teams believed in teblow there would've been alot of teams bidding for his services. as it stood the jets & jags were the only ones interested,neither one looking to make him a starter.

If teblow were truely a QBOTF,teams would've tripped over themselves trying to get him regardess of when he was released or traded.
carson palmer was in retirement for all intents & purposes & look at what cinnci got in return for him.

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 08:11 AM
You do know he started for more than half the season last year, yes?

You do know that he was the back up QB that became the starter due to Denver being 1-4, the outcry by the fans for Tebow to take over, and the piss poor play of Orton and the team in general. BTW, how did it turn out again for the Broncos with Tebow playing the rest of the way?


Also, kind of important to note that it does not matter WHY he was drafted where he was drafted, but THAT he was drafted where he was drafted at all. He was a first round pick. Period. He was traded for a fourth round pick. Period. He will now play backup QB and personal protector on the punt team.


Don't disagree one bit. I was only stating the fact of why he was drafted in the first round.



First round pick.

I'm not sure where you get the "he never got a chance to compete" whiny bull**** narrative, but it ignores an awful lot of facts.


The whiny bull**** is coming from mostly people like yourself who still have an axe to grind for whatever reason. You were like this all last season and are still the same now. Trust me we get it.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 08:15 AM
The whiny bull**** is coming from mostly people like yourself who still have an axe to grind for whatever reason. You were like this all last season and are still the same now. Trust me we get it.

the only whinning i'm seeing is from those who can't handle the fact that teblow is not an NFL quality QB.

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 08:16 AM
BS,you've got a pretty selective memory or you simply don't know what the **** you are talking about. Tebow went in to TC last season as our starter,but sucked so bad he lost it to kyle orton. You don't seem to remember denver putting orton on the trading block. the only thing that kept orton from being traded to the dolphins was his contract. you don't get a bigger opportunity then that. denver was willing to trade away the starter they had in orton to clear the way for teblow,but yet teblow never got a fair shot at starter!?

Seems that you are the one that doesn't know what the hell you are talking about. Denver tried to trade Orton BEFORE camp.(maybe even before the draft, I'd have to look) The deal didn't work out. The three QBs entered camp under the impression that it was an open competition, with Orton being the only one of the three QBs to get reps with the 1st team. The other two got 1st team reps, when Orton was away from practice. Orton was named the starter about 2 weeks into camp. This was well documented.

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 08:19 AM
the only whinning i'm seeing is from those who can't handle the fact that teblow is not an NFL quality QB.

I could care less if he is or isn't anymore. Don't let the fact that I'm defending him from a couple of morons lead you to believe that I'm some kind of Tebow lover, or teblow lover as you so stupidly keep saying like it still funny to spell his name that way.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 08:20 AM
Seems that you are the one that doesn't know what the hell you are talking about. Denver tried to trade Orton BEFORE camp.(maybe even before the draft, I'd have to look) The deal didn't work out. The three QBs entered camp under the impression that it was an open competition, with Orton being the only one of the three QBs to get reps with the 1st team. The other two got 1st team reps, when Orton was away from practice. Orton was named the starter about 2 weeks into camp. This was well documented.

actually what was documented was teblow crying to the press about how he was the starter going into camp & how it was taken away after coaches saw teblow practice. there was no question going into TC last yr when orton was on the trading block that teblow was the starter going into camp.

lolcopter
06-07-2012, 08:21 AM
the only whinning i'm seeing is from those who can't handle the fact that teblow is not an NFL quality QB.

You seem to be way more invested in this than anyone else. You like a whiny militant atheist who never shuts up about religion. You claim you don't care but your actions say the exact opposite

S'okay bruh, it's not gay if it's with tebow

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 08:23 AM
You seem to be way more invested in this than anyone else. You like a whiny militant atheist who never shuts up about religion. You claim you don't care but your actions say the exact opposite

S'okay bruh, it's not gay if it's with tebow
you're going to have to do better than this.

CEH
06-07-2012, 08:25 AM
This is a QB starved league. Look at the QB picked in '11 that probably had no reason being drafted that high. If Tebow was anything more than a development QB at this point (whose game and practice is on film) teams see this and offered what they thought he was worth at the current moment.

The circus has just as much to do with Tebow's trade

lolcopter
06-07-2012, 08:26 AM
you're going to have to do better than this.

It's a thin line between love and hate. Don't hold back your feelings on our account

Oh wait, you're not



If you really don't like tebow then maybe just shut the **** up about tebow so this thread can die?

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 08:27 AM
It's a thin line between love and hate. Don't hold back your feelings on our account

Oh wait, you're not



If you really don't like tebow then maybe just shut the **** up about tebow so this thread can die?

If you don't like my post go **** yourself & put me on ignore.

lolcopter
06-07-2012, 08:28 AM
If you don't like my post go **** yourself & put me on ignore.

Still gonna have to keep seeing this ****ty thread on the first page though

Drop the obsession and let it go. He's not a bronco, you don't have to convince us of anything.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 08:31 AM
Still gonna have to keep seeing this ****ty thread on the first page though

Drop the obsession and let it go. He's not a bronco, you don't have to convince us of anything.no ****! really! if there weren't teblowites constantly crying about teblow because of some percieved slight of teblow I wouldn't have anything to say about it.

lolcopter
06-07-2012, 08:35 AM
Cool story brah

U def mad

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 08:36 AM
The whiny bull**** is coming from mostly people like yourself who still have an axe to grind for whatever reason. You were like this all last season and are still the same now. Trust me we get it.

Really? So the team DIDN'T try to trade Orton before the season?

Fascinating.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 08:39 AM
He was fine. He would have taken this team back to the playoffs again next year, with a better record than 8-8.

He just wasn't Peyton Manning, that's all.

And the price tag was low because of the timing. He was sold in a fire sale. Everybody knows if you want maximum value for a QB you wait until somebody needs one. For example, the Broncos got ZILCH for Orton, because of the timing. But if things were different, they might have gotten more.

I'm... not sure where you get this. He looked fine, serviceable, right up until the last three weeks of the season, when he looked like absolute dog****. Now if the high water mark is "serviceable" and the low water mark is "dog****, awful, could only muster three points on a short field against the Chiefs AT HOME," how do you fathom he wins 9+ games and goes to the playoffs again?

We had an incredible run last season. That incredible run was informed by SOME good play from Tim, and AN AWFUL LOT of incredibly lucky breaks, not to mention outstanding placekicking to win an awful lot of games.

Yet if he stayed, it's totally guaranteed that he'd win 9+ and go to the playoffs again, you guys.

baja
06-07-2012, 08:39 AM
really? you really got to ask a question like that? a 1st round QB that has been traded to be another teams back up QB & special teams player for what was it a 4th rd pick if i remember correctly & you actually have the nerve to ask me, How is he a bust?


Just because EF -X decided to toss him to the curb does not mean he is a bust and I think you know that.

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 08:41 AM
actually what was documented was teblow crying to the press about how he was the starter going into camp & how it was taken away after coaches saw teblow practice. there was no question going into TC last yr when orton was on the trading block that teblow was the starter going into camp.

Ok, so you're saying that Tebow was named the starter going into camp, but never saw reps with the first team until Orton had to miss a day or two with family issues. Yeah, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. What John Fox said when he was hired and what he actually did when camp started are two different things.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 08:43 AM
Just because EF -X decided to toss him to the curb does not mean he is a bust and I think you know that.

I think the argument is that he held no value. First round pick into a fourth round pick after two years? Not good.

Maybe he'll turn into something. The majority of GMs in this league are convinced otherwise or someone would have stepped up with a third, or a second, or a (hahahahahaha) first. /shrug

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 08:44 AM
Really? So the team DIDN'T try to trade Orton before the season?

Fascinating.

Please try to follow and keep up ok?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 08:46 AM
Please try to follow and keep up ok?

I'm afraid you're lost.

"He wasn't given a fair chance to compete!"
/team puts the starter on the block

"He's not a bust!"
/drafted with a first, traded for a fourth

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 08:48 AM
I think the argument is that he held no value. First round pick into a fourth round pick after two years? Not good.

Maybe he'll turn into something. The majority of GMs in this league are convinced otherwise or someone would have stepped up with a third, or a second, or a (hahahahahaha) first. /shrug

Knowing the fact that Denver was going to get rid of Tebow one way or another, I'm sure had no factor in any of it. Not to mention, the majority of teams had already signed all their QBs that they wanted at the time. Manning was off the market and a member of the Broncos. So teams knew they didn't have to give up much, and they also knew that it wouldn't take much for Elway to trade him regardless.

You guys act like Elway came out and was demanding a high draft pick for Tebow. Truth be told, Elway would have unloaded him for a 7th if that was the best he was offered.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 08:48 AM
Seems that you are the one that doesn't know what the hell you are talking about. Denver tried to trade Orton BEFORE camp.(maybe even before the draft, I'd have to look) The deal didn't work out. The three QBs entered camp under the impression that it was an open competition, with Orton being the only one of the three QBs to get reps with the 1st team. The other two got 1st team reps, when Orton was away from practice. Orton was named the starter about 2 weeks into camp. This was well documented.

Is THIS what I had to "catch up with"? Because your facts are wrong.

Orton was held out of camp because the team was trying to move him. For a few days. Tebow looked like DOG ****. You know what dog **** is, right? It's that stuff that stinks up your house when you step in it.

The trade didn't work out, and Tebow looked like ****, and Orton didn't, and TA-DAH! Tebow lost the OPEN COMPETITION for the spot.

Christ on a cracker, you are not bright.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-07-2012, 08:50 AM
Knowing the fact that Denver was going to get rid of Tebow one way or another, I'm sure had no factor in any of it. Not to mention, the majority of teams had already signed all their QBs that they wanted at the time. Manning was off the market and a member of the Broncos. So teams knew they didn't have to give up much, and they also knew that it wouldn't take much for Elway to trade him regardless.

You guys act like Elway came out and was demanding a high draft pick for Tebow. Truth be told, Elway would have unloaded him for a 7th if that was the best he was offered.

I really can't tell if you're being serious. It seems like satire, honestly.

Fact is, this is a QB starved league. If a team wanted tim, they would have stepped up AND MADE SURE they got him. How would they "make sure"? By offering a higher pick. Period.

He was unwanted. Do you seriously not see that? He's being used in punt protection for god's sake.

I'm all done running you in circles. I feel like I'm picking on a retarded kid, and honestly it makes me feel guilty.

GreatBronco16
06-07-2012, 09:00 AM
Is THIS what I had to "catch up with"? Because your facts are wrong.

Orton was held out of camp because the team was trying to move him. For a few days. Tebow looked like DOG ****. You know what dog **** is, right? It's that stuff that stinks up your house when you step in it.

The trade didn't work out, and Tebow looked like ****, and Orton didn't, and TA-DAH! Tebow lost the OPEN COMPETITION for the spot.

Christ on a cracker, you are not bright.

July 26th according to this article, the new NFL league started after the players signed the new CBA.http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18549001

By July 28th, just two days later, the Dolphins were in talks with the Broncos about trading for Orton. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6809564/miami-dolphins-denver-broncos-talking-kyle-orton-trade-sources-say

Orton set to take first team reps at first team practice. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/28/with-orton-in-camp-trade-to-miami-not-imminent-just-yet/

One day later on the 29th of July, the trade is declared dead.http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/2011/07/29/report-kyle-orton-trade-to-miami-dolphins-is-dead/

Now the very fact that to this day you still believe there was an OPEN competition for the QB spot last year just shows how confused you really are. Either that, or you are just so dead on hating Tebow that you can't make out your ass from a hole in the ground.

Now, say it again pinky.

baja
06-07-2012, 09:11 AM
He was fine. He would have taken this team back to the playoffs again next year, with a better record than 8-8.

He just wasn't Peyton Manning, that's all.

And the price tag was low because of the timing. He was sold in a fire sale. Everybody knows if you want maximum value for a QB you wait until somebody needs one. For example, the Broncos got ZILCH for Orton, because of the timing. But if things were different, they might have gotten more.

That is one of the areas where I miss Shanahan, he was the master of the trade.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-07-2012, 10:10 AM
really? you really got to ask a question like that? a 1st round QB that has been traded to be another teams back up QB & special teams player for what was it a 4th rd pick if i remember correctly & you actually have the nerve to ask me, How is he a bust?

So a guy in the league with a winning record and a playoff victory in his first 16 starts is a bust because of his trade value?

He was named the starter before manning became available. You can't ignore the specifics or facts to make a point. Its stupid.

No one can be claimed a bust after 16 starts.. Jesus, your hate makes you stupid.

16 starts....jesus christ. what a fag.

baja
06-07-2012, 10:17 AM
So a guy in the league with a winning record and a playoff victory in his first 16 starts is a bust because of his trade value?

He was named the starter before manning became available. You can't ignore the specifics or facts to make a point. Its stupid.

No one can be claimed a bust after 16 starts.. Jesus, your hate makes you stupid.

16 starts....jesus christ. what a fag.

I don't think Tebow is a bust but how many starts did Ryan Leaf have, how about JaMarcus Russell or Todd Marinovich?

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-07-2012, 10:23 AM
Leinhart was a bust after the 2007 season. 17 games played.

broncocalijohn
06-07-2012, 10:50 AM
So now that he's done it once, let's move the goalposts to "again".

When he does it again, then where will the goalposts be moved to?

Depends. Does Tebow have to hit those goal posts? If so, about 5 feet from him. Hilarious!

(just wanted to jump on the hate train since he is now a Jet!)

Good luck Tebow and you better improve as an actual QB soon or the road of your career will be filled with gimmicks.

That is one of the areas where I miss Shanahan, he was the master of the trade.

He wouldnt have to trade to be the master if he concentrated on the draft better and had those exceptional players. Thank God he made RBs into high draft picks.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 11:40 AM
So a guy in the league with a winning record and a playoff victory in his first 16 starts is a bust because of his trade value?

He was named the starter before manning became available. You can't ignore the specifics or facts to make a point. Its stupid.

No one can be claimed a bust after 16 starts.. Jesus, your hate makes you stupid.

16 starts....jesus christ. what a fag.what's stupid is you,you ignore his horrendous 3rd conversion rates,his ****ty passing %. how about his 4 out 5 losses to end the season. you convienently ignore that,but of course if denver loses it's everybodies fault but when denver win it's all tebow.

peacepipe
06-07-2012, 11:46 AM
I don't think Tebow is a bust but how many starts did Ryan Leaf have, how about JaMarcus Russell or Todd Marinovich?what's funny is all had better comp. % than tebow,that should say it all right there.

Jay3
06-07-2012, 11:54 AM
what's funny is all had better comp. % than Elway,that should say it all right there.

Fixed it for ya.

Stagger Lee
06-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Fixed it for ya.

Career completion % per NFL.com:

Russel: 53.1
Marinovich: 50.7
Leaf: 48.4
Elway: 56.9

What were you saying again?

Spider
06-07-2012, 12:13 PM
:rofl: Tebow should be arrested for impersonating a nfl qb

Butterscotch Stallion
06-07-2012, 01:08 PM
This place is full of more retards than the locker room at the special olympics.

Butterscotch Stallion
06-07-2012, 01:10 PM
what's stupid is you,you ignore his horrendous 3rd conversion rates,his ****ty passing %. how about his 4 out 5 losses to end the season. you convienently ignore that,but of course if denver loses it's everybodies fault but when denver win it's all tebow.

Umm....no I don't. I'm just not a fag who thinks a career is defined in two years. I don't claim any thing about tebow that isn't based on reality. Try it some time

Butterscotch Stallion
06-07-2012, 01:12 PM
Leinhart was a bust after the 2007 season. 17 games played.

Disagree. Serious bust talk wasn't for a few years later. Even last year houston has high hopes until he got inured.

baja
06-07-2012, 02:11 PM
Umm....no I don't. I'm just not a fag who thinks a career is defined in two years. I don't claim any thing about tebow that isn't based on reality. Try it some time

So you are saying you are a gay guy that is reasonable in thought?

Drunk Monkey
06-07-2012, 02:18 PM
This place is full of more retards than the locker room at the special olympics.

Jets forums now accepting new members. On your bike.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-07-2012, 02:43 PM
Disagree. Serious bust talk wasn't for a few years later. Even last year houston has high hopes until he got inured.

How does that help Arizona? He was a bust for Arizona plain and simple.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-07-2012, 02:47 PM
Umm....no I don't. I'm just not a fag who thinks a career is defined in two years. I don't claim any thing about tebow that isn't based on reality. Try it some time

It depends on the player. Russell was defined in about 2 years. You are right tebows career is not defined yet. But the fact he went from a starter to a back up, and now to special teams does not bode well

uplink
06-07-2012, 03:50 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/07/polamalu-tebow-ran-an-offense-you-dont-think-can-work-in-the-nfl/

similar to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_xfKuDZd98

Archer81
06-07-2012, 03:56 PM
Umm....no I don't. I'm just not a fag who thinks a career is defined in two years. I don't claim any thing about tebow that isn't based on reality. Try it some time


Watch it with the fag talk.


:Broncos:

Shananahan
06-07-2012, 04:07 PM
I am now accepting offers for the screen name 'Tebow' over at http://forums.theganggreen.com/, registered right after he was traded. It's never been used, and can be yours for the right price.

Missouribronc
06-07-2012, 09:20 PM
I am now accepting offers for the screen name 'Tebow' over at http://forums.theganggreen.com/, registered right after he was traded. It's never been used, and can be yours for the right price.

Oh, that's ****ing brilliant.

Tombstone RJ
06-07-2012, 09:29 PM
This place is full of more retards than the locker room at the special olympics.

duh!

Pseudofool
06-07-2012, 09:46 PM
http://i.imgur.com/dKRzB.jpg
via reddit

baja
06-07-2012, 10:16 PM
I got Gang Tebow

Stagger Lee
06-08-2012, 05:03 AM
I am now accepting offers for the screen name 'Tebow' over at http://forums.theganggreen.com/, registered right after he was traded. It's never been used, and can be yours for the right price.

Well played sir.

Drunk Monkey
06-08-2012, 06:30 AM
Steelers safety Troy Polamalu reflects on the simplistic approach of Jets QB Tim Tebow

PITTSBURGH – The last time Steelers safety Troy Polamalu was on the field, he left amid a dizzying moment of loss, frenetic energy and striking religious symbolism. For a man who is extraordinarily religious himself, watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers was an interesting, if somewhat painful, experience.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--steelers-safety-troy-polamalu-reflects-on-the-simplistic-approach-of-jets-qb-tim-tebow.html

Jay3
06-08-2012, 07:06 AM
Steelers safety Troy Polamalu reflects on the simplistic approach of Jets QB Tim Tebow

PITTSBURGH – The last time Steelers safety Troy Polamalu was on the field, he left amid a dizzying moment of loss, frenetic energy and striking religious symbolism. For a man who is extraordinarily religious himself, watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers was an interesting, if somewhat painful, experience.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--steelers-safety-troy-polamalu-reflects-on-the-simplistic-approach-of-jets-qb-tim-tebow.html

This part is instructive:

On the flipside of that high praise, Polamalu remains stunned at the simplicity of the offense Denver ran with Tebow and came away with one strong conclusion:
"You can't run that offense unless you have a great defense to go with it," said Polamalu, who remembers going through the playoff game thinking time after time …
"There's no way they're going to run that same route again," he said. "As a safety, part of your job is to eliminate certain routes that you don't think they're going to run. I would line up and say, 'They ran that the last time, there's no way they're going to run it again.' Then they did. The next time, 'There's no way they're going to run that again,' then they did.
"It was an incredibly simple offense that you just don't think can work in this league, but it worked for them with the kind of talent they had."

Part of the arguments here last year were that the Broncos were very predictable. I could tell what they were doing every snap almost. McCoy needs to share some accountability for that. I know it's partly because they never had a true "install" offseason with Tebow under center, and they were just doing it as they go along.

And the Tebow haters say "it's all Tebow could do, McCoy is a genius, the great one ever, doing only with the limited talent of Tebow."

But the truth is more subtle -- this team WASTED almost 3 years on Kyle Orton. They should have been working with Tebow to design more sets that were not predictable to the defense, like Troy says above.

The Patriots were able to just TEE OFF, because they had figured out the Broncos called the same plays in the same situations every time. And McCoy had no counterpunch for any play-calling.

Beantown Bronco
06-08-2012, 07:30 AM
But the truth is more subtle -- this team WASTED almost 3 years on Kyle Orton. They should have been working with Tebow to design more sets that were not predictable to the defense, like Troy says above.


Ummm, this is a bit dishonest.

2009 - can't do anything about that because Tebow wasn't even on the team.

2010 - can't do anything about that because Tebow was a rookie who everyone in the world, including his biggest proponents, knew would need at least a year, if not two, to be ready to take over full time. Even still, they managed to insert him in specialty packages with regularity and eventually put him in full time the last few weeks.

2011 - they completely redesigned the offense the best they could to cater to his "talents" at the position.

There wasn't much more they could've done. You can't change EVERYTHING in one year.

Jay3
06-08-2012, 07:56 AM
Ummm, this is a bit dishonest.

2009 - can't do anything about that because Tebow wasn't even on the team.

2010 - can't do anything about that because Tebow was a rookie who everyone in the world, including his biggest proponents, knew would need at least a year, if not two, to be ready to take over full time. Even still, they managed to insert him in specialty packages with regularity and eventually put him in full time the last few weeks.

2011 - they completely redesigned the offense the best they could to cater to his "talents" at the position.

There wasn't much more they could've done. You can't change EVERYTHING in one year.

You're looking at from a standpoint of culpability and blame, like "what could they have done?" I'm just looking at it in hindsight -- it was thoroughly wasted time from the QB position standpoint.

Granted, they drafted one as soon as they could. But if you started tracing back things they could have done different to avoid this hole, you get back to the Cutler situation (and no, I don't want to rehash it). It's just Tebow bears more than his fair share of the brunt for what was a very stunted situation -- there are still folks who believe the Broncos were on the precipice of an elite passing offense in 2010 and it just kind of slipped away due to circumstance. They weren't. In hindsight, they may have had an elite pass-catching receiver in Lloyd.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-08-2012, 07:58 AM
You're looking at from a standpoint of culpability and blame, like "what could they have done?" I'm just looking at it in hindsight -- it was thoroughly wasted time from the QB position standpoint.

Granted, they drafted one as soon as they could. But if you started tracing back things they could have done different to avoid this hole, you get back to the Cutler situation (and no, I don't want to rehash it). It's just Tebow bears more than his fair share of the brunt for what was a very stunted situation -- there are still folks who believe the Broncos were on the precipice of an elite passing offense in 2010 and it just kind of slipped away due to circumstance. They weren't. In hindsight, they may have had an elite pass-catching receiver in Lloyd.

You're going to have to let it go. Breathe. come down off that ledge, special butterfly. Everything's going to be okay.

I don't know if you heard, but... we got Manning.

TonyR
06-08-2012, 08:00 AM
Steelers safety Troy Polamalu reflects on the simplistic approach of Jets QB Tim Tebow...

Well, now we have the answer to the question: just what the hell was Dick LeBeau thinking?

Clearly, the Steelers thought the Broncos were going to approach last year's playoff game like any other NFL team--that is to say, they were going to try and change things up. You can't blame LeBeau for making this assumption. After all, that's exactly what most NFL teams try and do from week to week. LeBeau may be one of the greatest defensive minds the NFL has ever seen, but in this case, that mind worked very much against him. LeBeau, it seems to me, was a victim of a cognitive bias known as Curse of Knowledge:

The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias according to which better-informed agents find it extremely difficult to think about problems from the perspective of lesser-informed agents. As such added information may convey some disutility

Translation: sometimes, the smartest guys in the room (LeBeau, Polamalu, and Co.) can't fathom that everyone else isn't trying to be as clever as they are. This explains why the Broncos could run the same play over and over and over again, while the Steelers tried to outwit a phantom Bill Walsh and Joe Montana. A week later, Bill Belichick forced the Patriots into a Forrest Gump defense with vastly different results.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/how-the-smartest-guy-in-the-room-can-be-so-dumb

bronco militia
06-08-2012, 08:10 AM
Well, now we have the answer to the question: just what the hell was Dick LeBeau thinking?

Clearly, the Steelers thought the Broncos were going to approach last year's playoff game like any other NFL team--that is to say, they were going to try and change things up. You can't blame LeBeau for making this assumption. After all, that's exactly what most NFL teams try and do from week to week. LeBeau may be one of the greatest defensive minds the NFL has ever seen, but in this case, that mind worked very much against him. LeBeau, it seems to me, was a victim of a cognitive bias known as Curse of Knowledge:

The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias according to which better-informed agents find it extremely difficult to think about problems from the perspective of lesser-informed agents. As such added information may convey some disutility

Translation: sometimes, the smartest guys in the room (LeBeau, Polamalu, and Co.) can't fathom that everyone else isn't trying to be as clever as they are. This explains why the Broncos could run the same play over and over and over again, while the Steelers tried to outwit a phantom Bill Walsh and Joe Montana. A week later, Bill Belichick forced the Patriots into a Forrest Gump defense with vastly different results.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/how-the-smartest-guy-in-the-room-can-be-so-dumb

lol...thats awesome

Drunk Monkey
06-08-2012, 08:55 AM
Well, now we have the answer to the question: just what the hell was Dick LeBeau thinking?

Clearly, the Steelers thought the Broncos were going to approach last year's playoff game like any other NFL team--that is to say, they were going to try and change things up. You can't blame LeBeau for making this assumption. After all, that's exactly what most NFL teams try and do from week to week. LeBeau may be one of the greatest defensive minds the NFL has ever seen, but in this case, that mind worked very much against him. LeBeau, it seems to me, was a victim of a cognitive bias known as Curse of Knowledge:

The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias according to which better-informed agents find it extremely difficult to think about problems from the perspective of lesser-informed agents. As such added information may convey some disutility

Translation: sometimes, the smartest guys in the room (LeBeau, Polamalu, and Co.) can't fathom that everyone else isn't trying to be as clever as they are. This explains why the Broncos could run the same play over and over and over again, while the Steelers tried to outwit a phantom Bill Walsh and Joe Montana. A week later, Bill Belichick forced the Patriots into a Forrest Gump defense with vastly different results.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/how-the-smartest-guy-in-the-room-can-be-so-dumb

Lol, Nice

Jay3
06-08-2012, 01:34 PM
You're going to have to let it go. Breathe. come down off that ledge, special butterfly. Everything's going to be okay.

I don't know if you heard, but... we got Manning.

Sure, and if that had been the plan, it would amazingly executed.

But that was not the plan. They were bailed out by circumstanced.

The point is that Mike McCoy is not a genius, despite the strong evidence often cited that the Dolphins almost wanted to hire him.

peacepipe
06-08-2012, 01:55 PM
Disagree. Serious bust talk wasn't for a few years later. Even last year houston has high hopes until he got inured.

they had high hopes that he would be a good back up,now he is trying sign on with the raider if he hasn't already. he was never going to unseat schaub.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-08-2012, 03:59 PM
Sure, and if that had been the plan, it would amazingly executed.

But that was not the plan. They were bailed out by circumstanced.

The point is that Mike McCoy is not a genius, despite the strong evidence often cited that the Dolphins almost wanted to hire him.

I.

Don't care.

About "intent."

Bottom line is that we have Peyton ****ing Manning, and Bouncepass McGillicuddy is no longer here.

Jay3
06-08-2012, 04:17 PM
I.

Don't care.

About "intent."

Bottom line is that we have Peyton ****ing Manning, and Bouncepass McGillicuddy is no longer here.

Well, that's not a bad way to look at it but it hardly justifies hanging out on an NFL discussion board, much less posting in a thread about Tebow.

You could just sit around and think "We have Peyton Manning. Mmmmm."

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-08-2012, 04:32 PM
Sure, and if that had been the plan, it would amazingly executed.

But that was not the plan. They were bailed out by circumstanced.

The point is that Mike McCoy is not a genius, despite the strong evidence often cited that the Dolphins almost wanted to hire him.

Tebow looked horrible in practice running an nfl style offense. So they couldn't use that kind of play calling. Why would you choose a play in a game that looked ridiculous during the week in practice? Jets are seeing the same thing and now he's on special teams.

Jay3
06-08-2012, 05:36 PM
Tebow looked horrible in practice running an nfl style offense. So they couldn't use that kind of play calling. Why would you choose a play in a game that looked ridiculous during the week in practice? Jets are seeing the same thing and now he's on special teams.

This is giving all the benefit of doubt to McCoy. Overblown about the parade of horribles. He never got an OTA install or first team reps in off-season. And he didn't look "horrible" on longer throws.

My point is that just because Tebow was limited doesn't mean McCoy was a genius. It's possible that for McCoy to be thoroughly mediocre at the same time.

All I know is I saw an incredibly repetitive and predictable offense for 3 quarters, and when they spread it out in the 4th it always worked. I think there's something to be said for holding everybody accountable, not just Tebow.

To the extent the defense of "it worked well enough, they won" is raised, the same benefit goes to Tebow.

More plays like the 80 yarder against Pittsburgh should have been designed.

I guarantee Peyton will add plays. Gar-ON-tee.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-08-2012, 06:06 PM
This is giving all the benefit of doubt to McCoy. Overblown about the parade of horribles. He never got an OTA install or first team reps in off-season. And he didn't look "horrible" on longer throws.

My point is that just because Tebow was limited doesn't mean McCoy was a genius. It's possible that for McCoy to be thoroughly mediocre at the same time.

All I know is I saw an incredibly repetitive and predictable offense for 3 quarters, and when they spread it out in the 4th it always worked. I think there's something to be said for holding everybody accountable, not just Tebow.

To the extent the defense of "it worked well enough, they won" is raised, the same benefit goes to Tebow.

More plays like the 80 yarder against Pittsburgh should have been designed.

I guarantee Peyton will add plays. Gar-ON-tee.


He might not have looked horrible in practice. But he did look bad enough for an NFL veteran HC to say theyd be screwed running an NFL offense. Just cause one 80 yard bomb worked doesn't mean they all would. Saying Peyton adds plays is a given. That usually happens when you acquire a HOFer at that position. During all those 3 quarters I watched plenty of plays where tebow pressed and looked to run instead of going through progressions. Those are passing plays called by McCoy but not executed because tebow looked to run when his footwork and eyes in the pocket weren't good enough.

Jay3
06-08-2012, 06:47 PM
He might not have looked horrible in practice. But he did look bad enough for an NFL veteran HC to say theyd be screwed running an NFL offense. Just cause one 80 yard bomb worked doesn't mean they all would. Saying Peyton adds plays is a given. That usually happens when you acquire a HOFer at that position. During all those 3 quarters I watched plenty of plays where tebow pressed and looked to run instead of going through progressions. Those are passing plays called by McCoy but not executed because tebow looked to run when his footwork and eyes in the pocket weren't good enough.

Fine, you believe the offense was not predictable and repetitive. Agree to disagree.

And it wasn't an 80 yard bomb. It was a pretty quick strike over the middle.

It's not McCoy's fault, Tebow's failures. But his stats could have been a lot better with a better series of play designs. And for some reason, most people harp mostly on the stats.

DBroncos4life
06-08-2012, 06:56 PM
He might not have looked horrible in practice. But he did look bad enough for an NFL veteran HC to say theyd be screwed running an NFL offense. Just cause one 80 yard bomb worked doesn't mean they all would. Saying Peyton adds plays is a given. That usually happens when you acquire a HOFer at that position. During all those 3 quarters I watched plenty of plays where tebow pressed and looked to run instead of going through progressions. Those are passing plays called by McCoy but not executed because tebow looked to run when his footwork and eyes in the pocket weren't good enough.

I doubt many teams play cover zero all the time for that play to work.

Jay3
06-08-2012, 10:21 PM
I doubt many teams play cover zero all the time for that play to work.

No teams play anything all the time.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-09-2012, 05:34 AM
Well, that's not a bad way to look at it but it hardly justifies hanging out on an NFL discussion board, much less posting in a thread about Tebow.

You could just sit around and think "We have Peyton Manning. Mmmmm."

Thing about it is, we've rehashed Tebow's time here over and over and over. Nothing is changing. It's not going to reverse, suddenly, and he's not going to arrive at Dove Valley ready to take DJ's LB spot. (Shame, by the way.)

You're not going to convince me that he's ever going to make it as a QB at this level; I'm a wait-and-see-but-I-don't-think-he-has-the-basic-skills-required-for-that camp. I'm never going to convince you that he's not THE reason for the Broncos' turnaround last season; you're in the we-won-a-playoff-game-why-is-that-not-enough-to-prove-to-you-people-that-he-can-play-QB-even-though-he-sucks-at-throwing-the-ball-oh-hey-look-Elway-had-a-bad-completion-%-HIS-first-year-too-because-the-two-are-totally-similar group.

So yes, bringing up McCoy (as if he could have played Tebow in a traditional offense and was somehow "holding him back") and Fox (as if he was the one throwing balls in the dirt) and Elway and his "intent" to trade Tebow is really, at best, irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. We sent off a QB who doesn't throw effectively (I'm trying this new thing where I attempt to be kind) and got stuck with Peyton Manning. However we got there, I think it's actually, you know, kind of a good thing.

errand
06-09-2012, 06:40 AM
Sure, and if that had been the plan, it would amazingly executed.

But that was not the plan. They were bailed out by circumstanced.

The point is that Mike McCoy is not a genius, despite the strong evidence often cited that the Dolphins almost wanted to hire him.

More often than not, having a great QB running your offense makes offensive coordinators look like geniuses....McCoy might look like one after 2012 season is over ....because in case you haven't noticed, and judging by your posts, you haven't ....we signed Peyton Manning.

Jay3
06-09-2012, 06:56 AM
The discussion was about Troy Palamalu's observation on how repetitive and predictable the offense was, despite it working.

I can understand both of you wanting to constantly bring up Peyton Manning and talk about him -- it's an understandable trend for every thread to eventually be about the current quarterback.

But this is the "tebow sucks" thread, and it works kind of well to confine most discussion about Tebow to one thread. It seems to be the most popular thread by far for now.

So, to be clear, I don't mind if you repeatedly bring up Peyton Manning, but spare me the suggestion that I'm "constantly bringing up" this detail or that detail in the thread that's about tebow sucking.

Kaylore
06-09-2012, 07:09 AM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

CEH
06-09-2012, 07:45 AM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

Fox and Co could have won Coach of the year. What they did mid stream was all about coaching. I know for a fact they had a Brady Quinn 3rd down package installed for the Pitts game because that was how bad Tebow looked the last three games on 3rd down


Tebow can throw the long ball. But consistently needs to make the routine throws to keep the drive alive.

Even Philly with Vick want him to throw more run less and cut down on turnovers. Tebow was a fumble machine last year.

DENVERDUI55
06-09-2012, 09:47 AM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

People actually believe that too. Agreed its beyond laughable.

Hulamau
06-09-2012, 09:57 AM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

Totally agree, its a ludicrous argument by the Tebow-only devotees,

R-Mac
06-09-2012, 11:23 AM
I don't think the "simplistic" offense helped Tebow. First of all, Tebow knew how to execute option plays, but other players on offense were not used to it. The offense was already comfortable with the system that McCoy inherited from McDaniels. And in the end, the zone-read option only hurt Tebow's development as a QB in the NFL. I believe Elway decided to put Tebow on the field to prove his fans wrong, get a high draft pick and find a proper replacement.

If the coordinator had to develop new plays and the players had to adjust to a new style on offense, then why did the Broncos make the change? Why didn't they keep Orton as the QB? Orton was the conventional QB executing the regular offense where everyone already knew what to do.

The Broncos make it sound as if Tebow as the starting QB was a burden that demanded adjustments and patience. That's a lot of hypocrisy, because they could have simply kept Orton at QB. Yes, the team was 1-4, but an inferior QB won't make the situation better.

If the Broncos made the change because of the pressure applied by the fans, then it's further proof that Elway just wanted to give an answer to the fans and show why he never fully committed to Tebow.

Tebow started 3 games as a rookie in 2010, playing in the regular system. He scored 7 TDs in those games. There was no zone-read option. Brandon Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards. McCoy called a lot of screen passes. Veteran receivers like Lloyd and Gaffney helped Tebow.

In 2011, it was completely different. Very few screen passes and high percentage passes. A bunch of young receivers. Commitment to a heavy running game, which made Tebow look like an idiot. 8 passes against the Chiefs, most of them long bombs down the field. That kind of playcalling was humiliating, embarrassing.

I don't think McCoy deserve any applause for his adjustments to the offense in 2011. It was a freak show that cemented the perception of Tebow as a FB that throws the ball. This is not how you develop a QB in the NFL. But McCoy was probably following orders from a head coach that loves to see smashmouth football.

Tebow needs to play in a regular NFL offense, without that zone-read option crap, learn how to go through progressions with some experience and then use his athletic ability as a last resort like other starting QBs do. Give him some easy completions to make him feel comfortable, give him a rhythm. 2 of 8 for 69 yards against the Chiefs was not his fault, it was the play caller's fault. John Lynch was calling for screen passes against the Lions, and he was right. But maybe now it's too late. He's become the "wildcat" QB for the Jets, a backup that will play on special teams and play like a RB in goal line situations.

I understand John Elway and his opinion. He inherited Tebow, this weird running QB that came from a spread offense. Elway wanted a different type of QB. But the Broncos did not have to move from Orton to Tebow, and they did not have to install a college offense in the middle of the regular season. I guess Elway could not simply leave Tebow to rot as a backup and then trade him in the offseason. He had to prove something, show why Tebow was not his guy. Interestingly, the Broncos were able to win some games with Tebow and the quest for Andrew Luck became a distant dream.

errand
06-09-2012, 11:31 AM
The discussion was about Troy Palamalu's observation on how repetitive and predictable the offense was, despite it working.

I can understand both of you wanting to constantly bring up Peyton Manning and talk about him -- it's an understandable trend for every thread to eventually be about the current quarterback.

But this is the "tebow sucks" thread, and it works kind of well to confine most discussion about Tebow to one thread. It seems to be the most popular thread by far for now.

So, to be clear, I don't mind if you repeatedly bring up Peyton Manning, but spare me the suggestion that I'm "constantly bringing up" this detail or that detail in the thread that's about tebow sucking.

you spewed crap about McCoy...just gave you my personal opinion on why he'll be considered a much better coordinator this coming season than he may have this past season....the main ingredient was adding a future hall of fame QB into the mix.....

As for the subject at hand, Tebow unfortunately isn't a polished passer, and quite frankly may never become one....is that better?

peacepipe
06-09-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't think the "simplistic" offense helped Tebow. First of all, Tebow knew how to execute option plays, but other players on offense were not used to it. The offense was already comfortable with the system that McCoy inherited from McDaniels. And in the end, the zone-read option only hurt Tebow's development as a QB in the NFL. I believe Elway decided to put Tebow on the field to prove his fans wrong, get a high draft pick and find a proper replacement.

If the coordinator had to develop new plays and the players had to adjust to a new style on offense, then why did the Broncos make the change? Why didn't they keep Orton as the QB? Orton was the conventional QB executing the regular offense where everyone already knew what to do.

The Broncos make it sound as if Tebow as the starting QB was a burden that demanded adjustments and patience. That's a lot of hypocrisy, because they could have simply kept Orton at QB. Yes, the team was 1-4, but an inferior QB won't make the situation better.

If the Broncos made the change because of the pressure applied by the fans, then it's further proof that Elway just wanted to give an answer to the fans and show why he never fully committed to Tebow.

Tebow started 3 games as a rookie in 2010, playing in the regular system. He scored 7 TDs in those games. There was no zone-read option. Brandon Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards. McCoy called a lot of screen passes. Veteran receivers like Lloyd and Gaffney helped Tebow.

In 2011, it was completely different. Very few screen passes and high percentage passes. A bunch of young receivers. Commitment to a heavy running game, which made Tebow look like an idiot. 8 passes against the Chiefs, most of them long bombs down the field. That kind of playcalling was humiliating, embarrassing.

I don't think McCoy deserve any applause for his adjustments to the offense in 2011. It was a freak show that cemented the perception of Tebow as a FB that throws the ball. This is not how you develop a QB in the NFL. But McCoy was probably following orders from a head coach that loves to see smashmouth football.

Tebow needs to play in a regular NFL offense, without that zone-read option crap, learn how to go through progressions with some experience and then use his athletic ability as a last resort like other starting QBs do. Give him some easy completions to make him feel comfortable, give him a rhythm. 2 of 8 for 69 yards against the Chiefs was not his fault, it was the play caller's fault. John Lynch was calling for screen passes against the Lions, and he was right. But maybe now it's too late. He's become the "wildcat" QB for the Jets, a backup that will play on special teams and play like a RB in goal line situations.

I understand John Elway and his opinion. He inherited Tebow, this weird running QB that came from a spread offense. Elway wanted a different type of QB. But the Broncos did not have to move from Orton to Tebow, and they did not have to install a college offense in the middle of the regular season. I guess Elway could not simply leave Tebow to rot as a backup and then trade him in the offseason. He had to prove something, show why Tebow was not his guy. Interestingly, the Broncos were able to win some games with Tebow and the quest for Andrew Luck became a distant dream.LOL

Jay3
06-09-2012, 11:32 AM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

This highlights my point -- people tend to give too much benefit of doubt to McCoy and assume he did the only thing Tebow could do. But the truth is not that black and white -- McCoy is accountable for Tebow's entire development up until that time, too.

They made their decision -- develop Kyle Orton, and also dabble with the notion that Brady Quinn was also #2 and got a lot of the install reps.

(I know, I know, it all relates back to Tebow being so horrible. Everything through that lens.)

Jay3
06-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Totally agree, its a ludicrous argument by the Tebow-only devotees,

I think the "jealousy" and conspiracy theories are ludicrous (they aren't even really coherent). But I also think the team's management was intending to "suck for Luck." They had no idea they would be able to win so many games with about 3 plays installed, and Tebow taking over in the end.

No question -- they expected to lose their ass. They dumped Brandon Lloyd because they had no idea there would be a playoff run. They let Kyle Orton go for nothing because they had no idea they might actually need a backup.

Jay3
06-09-2012, 11:36 AM
you spewed crap about McCoy...just gave you my personal opinion on why he'll be considered a much better coordinator this coming season than he may have this past season....the main ingredient was adding a future hall of fame QB into the mix.....

As for the subject at hand, Tebow unfortunately isn't a polished passer, and quite frankly may never become one....is that better?

That was what I was clarifying -- the mention of McCoy was in the context of Palamalu's observation about the offense.

Tebow not being a polished passer is an understatement. May never become one, remains to be seen. He's a very special talent.

Jay3
06-09-2012, 11:38 AM
I don't think the "simplistic" offense helped Tebow. First of all, Tebow knew how to execute option plays, but other players on offense were not used to it. The offense was already comfortable with the system that McCoy inherited from McDaniels. And in the end, the zone-read option only hurt Tebow's development as a QB in the NFL. I believe Elway decided to put Tebow on the field to prove his fans wrong, get a high draft pick and find a proper replacement.

If the coordinator had to develop new plays and the players had to adjust to a new style on offense, then why did the Broncos make the change? Why didn't they keep Orton as the QB? Orton was the conventional QB executing the regular offense where everyone already knew what to do.

The Broncos make it sound as if Tebow as the starting QB was a burden that demanded adjustments and patience. That's a lot of hypocrisy, because they could have simply kept Orton at QB. Yes, the team was 1-4, but an inferior QB won't make the situation better.

If the Broncos made the change because of the pressure applied by the fans, then it's further proof that Elway just wanted to give an answer to the fans and show why he never fully committed to Tebow.

Tebow started 3 games as a rookie in 2010, playing in the regular system. He scored 7 TDs in those games. There was no zone-read option. Brandon Lloyd caught 14 passes for 263 yards. McCoy called a lot of screen passes. Veteran receivers like Lloyd and Gaffney helped Tebow.

In 2011, it was completely different. Very few screen passes and high percentage passes. A bunch of young receivers. Commitment to a heavy running game, which made Tebow look like an idiot. 8 passes against the Chiefs, most of them long bombs down the field. That kind of playcalling was humiliating, embarrassing.

I don't think McCoy deserve any applause for his adjustments to the offense in 2011. It was a freak show that cemented the perception of Tebow as a FB that throws the ball. This is not how you develop a QB in the NFL. But McCoy was probably following orders from a head coach that loves to see smashmouth football.

Tebow needs to play in a regular NFL offense, without that zone-read option crap, learn how to go through progressions with some experience and then use his athletic ability as a last resort like other starting QBs do. Give him some easy completions to make him feel comfortable, give him a rhythm. 2 of 8 for 69 yards against the Chiefs was not his fault, it was the play caller's fault. John Lynch was calling for screen passes against the Lions, and he was right. But maybe now it's too late. He's become the "wildcat" QB for the Jets, a backup that will play on special teams and play like a RB in goal line situations.

I understand John Elway and his opinion. He inherited Tebow, this weird running QB that came from a spread offense. Elway wanted a different type of QB. But the Broncos did not have to move from Orton to Tebow, and they did not have to install a college offense in the middle of the regular season. I guess Elway could not simply leave Tebow to rot as a backup and then trade him in the offseason. He had to prove something, show why Tebow was not his guy. Interestingly, the Broncos were able to win some games with Tebow and the quest for Andrew Luck became a distant dream.

I agree with all this, but I do think Tebow needs to work primarily out of the shotgun (like Brady does). His whole career, he will be a threat to run up the middle. May as well build some sets out of that look. It's almost like having play action pass on every play (for free).

Spread it out, create space and holes, and let him audible to run plays any time in the game he sees the right read. Make the defense constantly question which he's going to do.

R-Mac
06-09-2012, 12:11 PM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

That's the part I don't understand. Why was McCoy "forced" to simplify the entire offense? If Tebow can't pass why was he named the starter? They had Orton, a veteran QB to run the offense conventionally. Keep Tebow on the bench if he can't pass.

Elway and his staff were not jealous. They just did not believe in Tebow as a professional QB. It's not jealousy, it's despise in a professional way (not personal). Elway watched Tebow throw the ball and thought "there is no way you're gonna be my QB of the future."

So, if Tebow was so bad, why did they put Orton on the bench? 1-4 record? So what? You have a better chance of winning the next games with a QB that can pass. The 1-4 record won't be fixed by a QB that needs a simplified offense.

The only answer that is left: "The fans." The fans wanted Tebow, they forced the Broncos to put Tebow on the field, even if he was the worst QB on the roster. So, Elway was willing to lose games just to prove the fans wrong? Was he willing to let an inferior QB sink the Broncos to justify a new direction in 2012? Was Elway sucking for Luck? If not, then why did he keep Orton, the superior QB that can throw the ball, as a backup?

KO5K
06-09-2012, 12:35 PM
The most alarming stat of the Broncos' offense as they closed the 2011 season: In the first half of their final four games, the Broncos ran the ball on 45- of-49 first-down plays.If I had to guess, I'd say the opposing defensive coaches were calling around 75% of the plays the Broncos were running through the first 3 quarters.

Anyone who has any sort of success in that scenario deserves major props. The idea that McCoy is even competent is laughable.

errand
06-09-2012, 12:45 PM
Anyone who has any sort of success in that scenario deserves major props. The idea that McCoy is even competent is laughable.

...LOL...this coming from some clown that thinks Tebow is a competent passer....

Jay3
06-09-2012, 02:46 PM
If I had to guess, I'd say the opposing defensive coaches were calling around 75% of the plays the Broncos were running through the first 3 quarters.

Anyone who has any sort of success in that scenario deserves major props. The idea that McCoy is even competent is laughable.

This is how I see it. I knew what was coming every time.

I never thought McCoy would hang on that job. Now it's perfect -- Manning rapes whatever OC they give him anyway, so McCoy's got this gig under control. But he flat out cannot game plan or play-call. His biggest strength is recognizing that and not trying to get cute.

R-Mac
06-09-2012, 03:01 PM
McCoy was following orders from the head coach. If John Fox wanted something different, he would have told McCoy to show more balance on 1st down. I thought McCoy called good plays in the final games of 2010 (after McDaniels was fired) and in 2011 when Orton was the starter. He just did not have experience with the "Tebow offense" and Fox told him to run the ball again and again.

Jay3
06-09-2012, 03:10 PM
McCoy was following orders from the head coach. If John Fox wanted something different, he would have told McCoy to show more balance on 1st down. I thought McCoy called good plays in the final games of 2010 (after McDaniels was fired) and in 2011 when Orton was the starter. He just did not have experience with the "Tebow offense" and Fox told him to run the ball again and again.

Disagree with him every calling good plays. I think he seemed flummoxed from start to finish.

Also: I like the word "flummoxed."

peacepipe
06-09-2012, 04:17 PM
This is how I see it. I knew what was coming every time.

I never thought McCoy would hang on that job. Now it's perfect -- Manning rapes whatever OC they give him anyway, so McCoy's got this gig under control. But he flat out cannot game plan or play-call. His biggest strength is recognizing that and not trying to get cute.LOL when your QBs only strength is to run the ball,the offense will have a strong tendancy to be predictable.

Jay3
06-09-2012, 07:01 PM
LOL when your QBs only strength is to run the ball,the offense will have a strong tendancy to be predictable.

Yep -- that's my point. The "lens of Tebow." People that hate Tebow tend to think McCoy's a genius. I'm suggesting you can hate Tebow and still think McCoy is thoroughly mediocre. That's what I think.

peacepipe
06-09-2012, 09:15 PM
Yep -- that's my point. The "lens of Tebow." People that hate Tebow tend to think McCoy's a genius. I'm suggesting you can hate Tebow and still think McCoy is thoroughly mediocre. That's what I think.I've never stated nor have I ever implied that McCoy is some kind of genius.

Jay3
06-09-2012, 09:21 PM
I've never stated nor have I ever implied that McCoy is some kind of genius.

It's a figure of speech. Splitting hairs on the internet is a waste of your time and mine.

Blueflame
06-09-2012, 09:38 PM
Yep -- that's my point. The "lens of Tebow." People that hate Tebow tend to think McCoy's a genius. I'm suggesting you can hate Tebow and still think McCoy is thoroughly mediocre. That's what I think.

The converse is also true... those who were heavily emotionally invested in Tebow tend to divert criticism off of Tebow and onto McCoy. It is also possible to love Tebow without shredding McCoy.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

ncjmirabile
06-09-2012, 10:16 PM
The converse is also true... those who were heavily emotionally invested in Tebow tend to divert criticism off of Tebow and onto McCoy. It is also possible to love Tebow without shredding McCoy.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

Call me crazy, but I tend to agree, but with the polarizing nature of the Tebow topic it's hard to find many who can talk about it without becoming entrenched in one side or the other.

broncocalijohn
06-09-2012, 10:33 PM
I think the "jealousy" and conspiracy theories are ludicrous (they aren't even really coherent). But I also think the team's management was intending to "suck for Luck." They had no idea they would be able to win so many games with about 3 plays installed, and Tebow taking over in the end.

No question -- they expected to lose their ass. They dumped Brandon Lloyd because they had no idea there would be a playoff run. They let Kyle Orton go for nothing because they had no idea they might actually need a backup.

Come on Tebowite! We were 1 and 4 with Orton. If we wanted to suck for Luck, we were already doing an accidental job on it 5 games in and would have stayed the course.

maven
06-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Tebow is a King James fan. He knows what's up.

Jay3
06-10-2012, 11:53 AM
The converse is also true... those who were heavily emotionally invested in Tebow tend to divert criticism off of Tebow and onto McCoy. It is also possible to love Tebow without shredding McCoy.

The truth is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

I agree, that's where the truth lies. McCoy didn't do a very good job last year. He's not a bum, he's not in a conspiracy, he did the best he could, he was trying to win. And he did some good things. But he also didn't do as well as I would like to see. Not at developing Tebow since Tebow got here, and not at installing an offense, not game planning, and not play-calling.

Tebow's failures are out in the open for all to see.

Jay3
06-10-2012, 11:55 AM
Come on Tebowite! We were 1 and 4 with Orton. If we wanted to suck for Luck, we were already doing an accidental job on it 5 games in and would have stayed the course.


I agree, in hindsight they probably realize they should have stayed with Orton to lose more. I 'm saying that they didn't expect to win 7 of their next 8 with Tebow. So they thought they could kill two birds with one stone -- find out what Tebow could do, let everybody be ready to move on, and also lose and get a quarterback.

There's just no explaining giving away Lloyd, and letting Kyle walk, if you think you have a chance to win the division and win a playoff game.

knuckleballah22
06-10-2012, 01:54 PM
yeah i still cant believe the jets got him... how could they do that to their QB???

colorado jones
06-10-2012, 02:43 PM
yeah i still cant believe the jets got him... how could they do that to their QB???

Because their current QB sucks?

errand
06-10-2012, 04:33 PM
I agree, in hindsight they probably realize they should have stayed with Orton to lose more. I 'm saying that they didn't expect to win 7 of their next 8 with Tebow. So they thought they could kill two birds with one stone -- find out what Tebow could do, let everybody be ready to move on, and also lose and get a quarterback.

There's just no explaining giving away Lloyd, and letting Kyle walk, if you think you have a chance to win the division and win a playoff game.

You're gonna try and convince us that Elway, the guy who got rid of a pool table because Brister beat him ONCE, would secretly plan to lose games? His competitiveness wouldn't allow him to lose on purpose. Sorry, but I think the premise of your argument is completely off

I cannot fathom that any coach, or member of our organization, especially a guy like Elway would "want to lose" regardless of the circumstances.....let alone to get a higher draft pick, save for something like we were 1-10 or 1-12. Then maybe I could see them playing the young guys and not caring as much if they win a game, because at that point in time, there's not much to cheer about finishing 2-14 vs 1-15.

We were 1-4....and while that was awful, it wasn't like we were 5 games out of first place....SD was 4-1...Oak was 3-2....KC was 2-3 so to say the season was lost when were sitting in last at 1-4 is not accurate....afterall how many times have we seen the Broncos lose 4 straight to end a season while another rival wins 3 or 4 to sneak in as division champs?

As for whether or not we'd have won 7 of our next 8 with Orton is irrelevant, because it fails to take into account that going 7-1 over our next 8 games after the switch to Tebow is meaningless if the Chargers didn't lose 6 straight games themselves, or had KC not lost 6 of their final 9 game, or if the Raiders didn't lose 4 of their last 5 games, including the one that actually netted us the division title.

And getting rid of Lloyd for something was better than watching him leave without any compensation....the waiving of Orton was basically the FO allowing him a chance to go to another team vs. being a bit of a distraction sitting the bench...that if anything should have destroyed all the "Elway wouldn't give Tebow a chance" bull****.

errand
06-10-2012, 04:44 PM
yeah i still cant believe the jets got him... how could they do that to their QB???

For all his foibles, Sanchez has responded when pushed by Rex Ryan....I recall him sitting Mark down and letting Brunell take more than his courtesy 1st team snaps to send a message and Mark responded to the head game rather well.

I'm guessing that perhaps Ryan sees Tebow as a red zone running "wildcat" threat, capable of firing up his team mates, and that is capable of occasionally hitting a WR accurately, who won't rock the boat by being a negative locker room presence, and will be the good back-up...but, he also sees a guy whose circus will jump all over Sanchez at even the slightest hint of poor play, basically pushing the young kid into playing much better than he has recently.

BroncoBeavis
06-11-2012, 08:32 AM
This thread retains its awesomeness. The hatas still keepin' the hate alive.

Their newest revelation

Mike McCoy, whose career highlights include...

Being Jake "Canton" Delhomme's QB coach

A 12 and 23 record as an offensive coordinator without Tim Tebow on the field.

A 9-7 record with Tebow on the field.

Conclusion... Mike McCoy is a genius. Tim Tebow sux.

Missouribronc
06-11-2012, 11:19 PM
This thread retains its awesomeness. The hatas still keepin' the hate alive.

Their newest revelation

Mike McCoy, whose career highlights include...

Being Jake "Canton" Delhomme's QB coach

A 12 and 23 record as an offensive coordinator without Tim Tebow on the field.

A 9-7 record with Tebow on the field.

Conclusion... Mike McCoy is a genius. Tim Tebow sux.

Reality is so much more boring...

Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

stopgap
06-12-2012, 12:04 AM
Still no hate for Teebs right now. Wish him the best of luck but am going to side with a future hall of fame guy that is questionable (supposedly.. depending on reports).

I think the right move was mad even if there was a tinge of desperation in the move. Teebs would have killed the D. Sent them to an early grave.

Bacchus
06-12-2012, 01:40 AM
I agree, in hindsight they probably realize they should have stayed with Orton to lose more. I 'm saying that they didn't expect to win 7 of their next 8 with Tebow. So they thought they could kill two birds with one stone -- find out what Tebow could do, let everybody be ready to move on, and also lose and get a quarterback.

There's just no explaining giving away Lloyd, and letting Kyle walk, if you think you have a chance to win the division and win a playoff game.

Well Lloyd is a one year wonder. He has been in the NFL 10 years now and he had one tremendous year. He only lasted one year with the Rams, we'll see how he does with his reunion with Josh in NE goes.

Drek
06-12-2012, 06:53 AM
Tebow forced McCoy to make the offense simplistic because he can't pass. The argument that they did it because "McCoy is dumb" or even better, the front office and coaching staff were conspiring to make Tebow look bad "because they were jealous" are beyond laughable.

This argument falls apart completely when you compare what Tebow did in the Minnesota game and the Pittsburgh game compared to what the standard game plan was.

Even in Minnesota and against Pittsburgh the entire first quarter was an exercise in keeping Tim from throwing the ball. When no other option was left McCoy opened it up and Tebow carried the team to two overtime wins on the merits of his arm in those two games.

Yet after those games we ran right back to the safety of a run run run punt offense.

McCoy was unwilling to commit to Tebow throwing the ball with any consistency in any non-emergency capacity. His consistent return to the run first last and always game plan shows us that.

The notion that Tebow can't throw period just doesn't pass the smell test. He had a career completion percentage in college of over 67% so there is a passing scheme he can excel in. Is he currently somewhat limited in the kinds of passes he can make consistently? Sure. He particularly struggles with intermediate distance throws, namely to the sidelines. But he's got a strong deep ball and is good on all his short throws. Instead of tailoring the passing game to fit those skills we chose to ignore them unless forced into letting Tim go deep. Those handful of times in which McCoy actually surrendered and let Tim go deep payed off, but we refused to incorporate it on a consistent basis throughout the entire season.

McCoy did a horrible job coaching Tebow to the best of Tebow's talent. That can largely be excused because he spent the entire (limited) camp and pre-season period planning for the exact opposite QB in Kyle Orton (mediocre deep ball, strongest on the intermediate passing game, zero mobility). But that doesn't change the fact that McCoy consistently failed to incorporate strengths Tebow would prove one Sunday into the game plan for the following Sunday, or even any thereafter.

BroncoBeavis
06-12-2012, 07:20 AM
Well Lloyd is a one year wonder. He has been in the NFL 10 years now and he had one tremendous year. He only lasted one year with the Rams, we'll see how he does with his reunion with Josh in NE goes.

Yeah because leading the Rams in receiving last year in only 10 games clearly shows he has no talent.

Jay3
06-12-2012, 08:25 AM
This argument falls apart completely when you compare what Tebow did in the Minnesota game and the Pittsburgh game compared to what the standard game plan was.

Even in Minnesota and against Pittsburgh the entire first quarter was an exercise in keeping Tim from throwing the ball. When no other option was left McCoy opened it up and Tebow carried the team to two overtime wins on the merits of his arm in those two games.

Yet after those games we ran right back to the safety of a run run run punt offense.

McCoy was unwilling to commit to Tebow throwing the ball with any consistency in any non-emergency capacity. His consistent return to the run first last and always game plan shows us that.

The notion that Tebow can't throw period just doesn't pass the smell test. He had a career completion percentage in college of over 67% so there is a passing scheme he can excel in. Is he currently somewhat limited in the kinds of passes he can make consistently? Sure. He particularly struggles with intermediate distance throws, namely to the sidelines. But he's got a strong deep ball and is good on all his short throws. Instead of tailoring the passing game to fit those skills we chose to ignore them unless forced into letting Tim go deep. Those handful of times in which McCoy actually surrendered and let Tim go deep payed off, but we refused to incorporate it on a consistent basis throughout the entire season.

McCoy did a horrible job coaching Tebow to the best of Tebow's talent. That can largely be excused because he spent the entire (limited) camp and pre-season period planning for the exact opposite QB in Kyle Orton (mediocre deep ball, strongest on the intermediate passing game, zero mobility). But that doesn't change the fact that McCoy consistently failed to incorporate strengths Tebow would prove one Sunday into the game plan for the following Sunday, or even any thereafter.

Among his many shortcomings, Tebow's most obvious and important one is what Elway referred to as his need to "pull the trigger." If we're honest, even Tebow fans were throwing shoes at the TV sometimes saying "Throw it!!" He was hesitant. He was unsure of whether a particular throw was open.

This is common in many young quarterbacks. I've seen Mark Sanchez do it for 3 years.

I think the conventional wisdom is to give a young quarterback some "single read" throws, early and often. Have plays where it's simple choice, either throw it here, or there.

We can continue to assume McCoy did everything possible under the sun, but I don't think he did. I saw too much of a willingness to just not throw it (like the first KC game), and not enough actual game planning that worked.

I think the problem is that everybody knew Tebow could win a game in the fourth quarter, and nobody (including Tebow) wanted to be the one to mess it up by taking chances. The team became addicted to winning, and in the process did not game plan well.

Spider
06-12-2012, 09:25 AM
Among his many shortcomings, Tebow's most obvious and important one is what Elway referred to as his need to "pull the trigger." If we're honest, even Tebow fans were throwing shoes at the TV sometimes saying "Throw it!!" He was hesitant. He was unsure of whether a particular throw was open.

This is common in many young quarterbacks. I've seen Mark Sanchez do it for 3 years.

I think the conventional wisdom is to give a young quarterback some "single read" throws, early and often. Have plays where it's simple choice, either throw it here, or there.

We can continue to assume McCoy did everything possible under the sun, but I don't think he did. I saw too much of a willingness to just not throw it (like the first KC game), and not enough actual game planning that worked.

I think the problem is that everybody knew Tebow could win a game in the fourth quarter, and nobody (including Tebow) wanted to be the one to mess it up by taking chances. The team became addicted to winning, and in the process did not game plan well.Tebow couldnt hit a bull inthe ass with a bass fiddle
His short game sucked ....McCoy only had so much to work with ..

baja
06-12-2012, 09:41 AM
Tebow couldnt hit a bull inthe ass with a bass fiddle
His short game sucked ....McCoy only had so much to work with ..

Why would you want to hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle?

Not only do you break a perfectly good musical instrument but you probably piss off the bull.

errand
06-12-2012, 10:49 AM
This argument falls apart completely when you compare what Tebow did in the Minnesota game and the Pittsburgh game compared to what the standard game plan was.

don't you mean what Tebow did against arguably the worst pass defense in the NFL in Minnesota, and against a team that had 9-10 guys in the box to stop the run? Ok, we'll concede that Tebow can throw the ball when faced with those kind of obstacles of cover zero and zero talent defending against him

Even in Minnesota and against Pittsburgh the entire first quarter was an exercise in keeping Tim from throwing the ball. When no other option was left McCoy opened it up and Tebow carried the team to two overtime wins on the merits of his arm in those two games.

No other option...Ok...i prefer to see it as they took advantage of the opportunities the opposing D gave them

Yet after those games we ran right back to the safety of a run run run punt offense.

Again, the Minnesota game and Steeler playoff game were the exceptions...not the norm when it came to Tebow throwing the ball


McCoy was unwilling to commit to Tebow throwing the ball with any consistency in any non-emergency capacity. His consistent return to the run first last and always game plan shows us that.

I'm gonna guess you weren't watching the games where he went 6-22 with an int and a suck ass passer rating....he only threw with above average accuracy when opposing teams had clowns for DB's, played off or played cover zero

The notion that Tebow can't throw period just doesn't pass the smell test. He had a career completion percentage in college of over 67% so there is a passing scheme he can excel in.

OK..he completed 67% in college...so what? this is the NFL...and against NFL defenses he struggles to complete more than half of his passes.


Is he currently somewhat limited in the kinds of passes he can make consistently? Sure.

somewhat limited? that's like saying Bronco Beavis is mildly retarded....he's very limited in consistently completing any pass at THIS level of competition


He particularly struggles with intermediate distance throws, namely to the sidelines. But he's got a strong deep ball and is good on all his short throws. Instead of tailoring the passing game to fit those skills we chose to ignore them unless forced into letting Tim go deep. Those handful of times in which McCoy actually surrendered and let Tim go deep payed off, but we refused to incorporate it on a consistent basis throughout the entire season.

I guess it never occured to you that perhaps Tim didn't instill any confidence in his passing prowess by sucking at it in practice....listen to the words of the WR's and hell, the whole team now...they're ecstatic that they finally have a QB that can throw a very accurate pass consistently

McCoy did a horrible job coaching Tebow to the best of Tebow's talent.

Here's a thought...Tebow has very little if any NFL talent when it comes to consistently throw the ball....is that not possible?

That can largely be excused because he spent the entire (limited) camp and pre-season period planning for the exact opposite QB in Kyle Orton (mediocre deep ball, strongest on the intermediate passing game, zero mobility). But that doesn't change the fact that McCoy consistently failed to incorporate strengths Tebow would prove one Sunday into the game plan for the following Sunday, or even any thereafter.

LOL...you're joking right? He changed the entire offense to fit the one skill the kid excelled at....running thru arm tackles. My God....what will your excuse be when he fails to complete half his passes for the Jets?




in bold

Spider
06-12-2012, 10:59 AM
Why would you want to hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle?

Not only do you break a perfectly good musical instrument but you probably piss off the bull.

Pretty good work out ;-)

errand
06-12-2012, 11:00 AM
Among his many shortcomings, Tebow's most obvious and important one is what Elway referred to as his need to "pull the trigger." If we're honest, even Tebow fans were throwing shoes at the TV sometimes saying "Throw it!!" He was hesitant. He was unsure of whether a particular throw was open.

Because there is a huge difference between being open in college and open in the NFL

I think the conventional wisdom is to give a young quarterback some "single read" throws, early and often. Have plays where it's simple choice, either throw it here, or there.

I doubt we could've made our offense any more simpler than it was to help the kid out....

We can continue to assume McCoy did everything possible under the sun, but I don't think he did. I saw too much of a willingness to just not throw it (like the first KC game), and not enough actual game planning that worked.

and yet when limited to 8 passes he hits on two and we win....and later against the same team, when they opened it up a bit for him, he turned in arguably the worst passing performance by a Broncos QB ever....

I think the problem is that everybody knew Tebow could win a game in the fourth quarter, and nobody (including Tebow) wanted to be the one to mess it up by taking chances. The team became addicted to winning, and in the process did not game plan well.

Or another way to look at it is that the defense kept us in the game despite a poorly led offense that constantly went 3 and out, and that coupled with amazing luck like a RB running outta bounds to stop the clock, then fumbling in OT, or failing to recover an onside kick, etc...and given our young QB's limitations throwing the ball, we were forced into winning ugly




in bold

bronco militia
06-12-2012, 11:07 AM
Happy Anniversary, Tebows
By Mike Klis The Denver Post Add a comment

Share Forty-one years ago today, the sports world as we know it began to change. Bob and Pam Tebow were married on June 12, 1971. The bride skipped her graduation ceremony at the University of Florida to instead say “I do,” to Bob.

The Tebows would devote their life to their missionary work in the Philippines, and to their five children _ Christy, Katie, Robby, Peter and Timothy.

Their youngest has become both the most popular, and second-most criticized (behind LeBron) athlete in the United States. So raise those bottled waters everybody. Here’s to the Tebows!

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/Jesus_facepalm.jpg

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/06/12/happy-anniversary-tebows/13970/

oubronco
06-12-2012, 11:13 AM
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120213055636/uncyclopedia/images/5/52/Double-facepalm.jpg

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-12-2012, 07:50 PM
Happy Anniversary, Tebows
By Mike Klis The Denver Post Add a comment

Share Forty-one years ago today, the sports world as we know it began to change. Bob and Pam Tebow were married on June 12, 1971. The bride skipped her graduation ceremony at the University of Florida to instead say “I do,” to Bob.

The Tebows would devote their life to their missionary work in the Philippines, and to their five children _ Christy, Katie, Robby, Peter and Timothy.

Their youngest has become both the most popular, and second-most criticized (behind LeBron) athlete in the United States. So raise those bottled waters everybody. Here’s to the Tebows!

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/Jesus_facepalm.jpg

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/06/12/happy-anniversary-tebows/13970/

Mike Klis is why we can't have nice things, or good media in this town.

LINK (http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/06/13/mike-klis-went-full-retard/)

Blueflame
06-13-2012, 01:50 PM
I wonder if Tedy Bruschi has any clue whatsoever of the intensity of the wrath that will be incoming toward him after his comments on ESPN about Tebow. It is entertaining watching another team have to deal with the circus.

Jay3
06-13-2012, 06:03 PM
I wonder if Tedy Bruschi has any clue whatsoever of the intensity of the wrath that will be incoming toward him after his comments on ESPN about Tebow. It is entertaining watching another team have to deal with the circus.

It was a few days ago. So what happened to Bruschi? Was it bad?

Blueflame
06-13-2012, 06:40 PM
It was a few days ago. So what happened to Bruschi? Was it bad?

Bruschi's comments (obviously not an exact quote here; but it's the gist of what he said) that Tebow should STFU and concentrate on being Sanchez's backup... were re-aired today on ESPN and are pretty much guaranteed to bring a strident reaction from Tebow fans, if they follow the same pattern they've established over the past 2 years. ESPN also dutifully reported that Tebow himself says he's "only doing what the Jest PR department asked him to do". They also re-aired Rex Ryan's "damage control" interview. Anyway I'm so glad it's them (the Jest) dealing with all this instead of us.

Jay3
06-13-2012, 08:42 PM
I think it blew over.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-13-2012, 08:54 PM
I think it blew over.

Could it be that the Tebow nuts have realized that there's a significantly different situation in New York? Like, you know, their beloved Tim blocking on punts? And perhaps they've toned down the rhetoric appropriately?

It's worth noting that there is but one active Tebow thread on the Mane right now, so maybe the reality is setting in.

Shananahan
06-13-2012, 09:06 PM
You're both wrong: it's June.

The Tebow Tidal Wave isn't scheduled to hit the coast until late July/early August.

Jay3
06-13-2012, 09:22 PM
Could it be that the Tebow nuts have realized that there's a significantly different situation in New York? Like, you know, their beloved Tim blocking on punts? And perhaps they've toned down the rhetoric appropriately?

It's worth noting that there is but one active Tebow thread on the Mane right now, so maybe the reality is setting in.

I think it was always overblown, and a few trolls garnered exactly the overreaction they were looking for. The complaints about it seemed and seem quite pathetic, actually.

Part of what raised the stress level was the Broncos losing their ass off, with an obvious under-talented journeyman at quarterback. And the coach getting fired didn't help. If the Broncos had just done what the Jets are doing -- give him a chance to play, a chance to contribute in packages, and allowed him to keep improving his passing game, we could have had some serious fun in Denver.

It always reminds me of that line by Kristen Wiig in Walk Hard (the Dewey Cox Story). She keeps going "you'll never make it!" to Dewey every chance she gets. Tebow's detractors seem dead set on some kind of wish fulfillment that Tebow not only fail, but that he fail permanently and quickly, so they can feel good that they were right to dismiss him and suggest he's not even a candidate to play quarterback.

baja
06-13-2012, 09:29 PM
It's my guess it was Manning that wanted Tebow and the distraction (and playing time) gone. I bet Manning said he would sign with Denver but only if EFX agreed to dump TT.

Blueflame
06-13-2012, 10:10 PM
I think it was always overblown, and a few trolls garnered exactly the overreaction they were looking for. The complaints about it seemed and seem quite pathetic, actually.

Part of what raised the stress level was the Broncos losing their ass off, with an obvious under-talented journeyman at quarterback. And the coach getting fired didn't help. If the Broncos had just done what the Jets are doing -- give him a chance to play, a chance to contribute in packages, and allowed him to keep improving his passing game, we could have had some serious fun in Denver.

It always reminds me of that line by Kristen Wiig in Walk Hard (the Dewey Cox Story). She keeps going "you'll never make it!" to Dewey every chance she gets. Tebow's detractors seem dead set on some kind of wish fulfillment that Tebow not only fail, but that he fail permanently and quickly, so they can feel good that they were right to dismiss him and suggest he's not even a candidate to play quarterback.

Ultimately whether or not Tebow makes it in the NFL as a QB will boil down to one question: "Can he consistently put the ball where it's supposed to go?" Because at the NFL level, QBs are expected to be able to do that and if they can't, "NFL" stands for "not for long". Going into his 3rd pro season, Tebow has yet to prove that he can do it. Key word: consistently.

And I'm sure the people who parsed every word Elway or Fox said and did amateur psychoanalysis of every Elway facial expression and body language... those who still froth at the mouth in indignation at the mere mention of Merril Hoge's name.... won't resent Bruschi's comments at all. (yeah, right... too funny).

Jay3
06-14-2012, 05:14 AM
And I'm sure the people who parsed every word Elway or Fox said and did amateur psychoanalysis of every Elway facial expression and body language... those who still froth at the mouth in indignation at the mere mention of Merril Hoge's name.... won't resent Bruschi's comments at all. (yeah, right... too funny).

Well, I resent Bruschi's comments -- they're not really justified. But it's just a comment and life goes on.

But you said Bruschi has no idea the intensity of the wrath that is coming his way, and once again you are thankful that "the circus" is gone.

I think all that is overblown and the complaining about that has become laughable. Somehow, we've arrived at a world where tweets and internet posts count as actual difficulty for a franchise.

The truth? The "circus" was Josh McD committing Spygate II, getting fired midseason, during an epic losing season, followed by a lockout, followed by an unsuccessful attempt to dump Kyle Orton to the Dolphins (I don't blame the Dolphins for coming to their senses), followed by more losing.

There was and is nothing difficult about having Tim Tebow on your roster. What is difficult in the NFL is losing. And losing is difficult to go through no matter what.

Blueflame
06-14-2012, 05:52 AM
Well, I resent Bruschi's comments -- they're not really justified. But it's just a comment and life goes on.

But you said Bruschi has no idea the intensity of the wrath that is coming his way, and once again you are thankful that "the circus" is gone.

I think all that is overblown and the complaining about that has become laughable. Somehow, we've arrived at a world where tweets and internet posts count as actual difficulty for a franchise.

The truth? The "circus" was Josh McD committing Spygate II, getting fired midseason, during an epic losing season, followed by a lockout, followed by an unsuccessful attempt to dump Kyle Orton to the Dolphins (I don't blame the Dolphins for coming to their senses), followed by more losing.

There was and is nothing difficult about having Tim Tebow on your roster. What is difficult in the NFL is losing. And losing is difficult to go through no matter what.

I don't resent Bruschi's comments... they're the truth.

Yes, I'm very glad that the Denver Broncos' backup QB is no longer a national media story. It's back as it should be... focus on the starter.

The truth? Josh McDaniels was a disaster as a HC... was nowhere near ready to handle the responsibility/power he was granted. And like all Bill Belicheat assistants (and Belicheat himself)...he was fired from his first HC job... deservedly so.

For any NFL franchise that does not have a clearly "elite" starting QB... having Tebow on the roster does indeed bring difficulty. A QB controversy (or even the potential for one) leaves room for divisiveness in the fanbase, locker room, and essentially the entire organization. ESPN's program today was just more evidence of that.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-14-2012, 06:06 AM
I think it was always overblown, and a few trolls garnered exactly the overreaction they were looking for. The complaints about it seemed and seem quite pathetic, actually.

Part of what raised the stress level was the Broncos losing their ass off, with an obvious under-talented journeyman at quarterback. And the coach getting fired didn't help. If the Broncos had just done what the Jets are doing -- give him a chance to play, a chance to contribute in packages, and allowed him to keep improving his passing game, we could have had some serious fun in Denver.

It always reminds me of that line by Kristen Wiig in Walk Hard (the Dewey Cox Story). She keeps going "you'll never make it!" to Dewey every chance she gets. Tebow's detractors seem dead set on some kind of wish fulfillment that Tebow not only fail, but that he fail permanently and quickly, so they can feel good that they were right to dismiss him and suggest he's not even a candidate to play quarterback.

Fine that you think that way.

I think it was "pathetic" that every Tebow fan and his mother was dissecting every word, phrase or breath from John Elway and somehow attempting to discern meaning. I think it was "pathetic" to demand -- and that's exactly what was happening after we were shown the door in Foxborough -- that Tim be given another year because, despite the fact that he was a sub-50% passer and teams had, by and large, figured out his schtick at the end of the season, he "just won" against mostly crappy competition.

To play quarterback, the consistency has to be there. It wasn't with him. Will it get there? Maybe. I don't know. I have my doubts. But truly, I don't give a rat's ass, because he's a backup quarterback/punt team blocking dummy in a city 2000 miles away from where my team plays home games.

Which is why I find the continued circus -- led by Klis (http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/06/13/mike-klis-went-full-retard/) at the Denver Newspaper of Record (http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/05/25/an-open-letter-to-lindsay-h-jones-at-the-denver-post/) --

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-14-2012, 06:06 AM
I think it was always overblown, and a few trolls garnered exactly the overreaction they were looking for. The complaints about it seemed and seem quite pathetic, actually.

Part of what raised the stress level was the Broncos losing their ass off, with an obvious under-talented journeyman at quarterback. And the coach getting fired didn't help. If the Broncos had just done what the Jets are doing -- give him a chance to play, a chance to contribute in packages, and allowed him to keep improving his passing game, we could have had some serious fun in Denver.

It always reminds me of that line by Kristen Wiig in Walk Hard (the Dewey Cox Story). She keeps going "you'll never make it!" to Dewey every chance she gets. Tebow's detractors seem dead set on some kind of wish fulfillment that Tebow not only fail, but that he fail permanently and quickly, so they can feel good that they were right to dismiss him and suggest he's not even a candidate to play quarterback.

Fine that you think that way.

I think it was "pathetic" that every Tebow fan and his mother was dissecting every word, phrase or breath from John Elway and somehow attempting to discern meaning. I think it was "pathetic" to demand -- and that's exactly what was happening after we were shown the door in Foxborough -- that Tim be given another year because, despite the fact that he was a sub-50% passer and teams had, by and large, figured out his schtick at the end of the season, he "just won" against mostly crappy competition.

To play quarterback, the consistency has to be there. It wasn't with him. Will it get there? Maybe. I don't know. I have my doubts. But truly, I don't give a rat's ass, because he's a backup quarterback/punt team blocking dummy in a city 2000 miles away from where my team plays home games.

Which is why I find the continued circus -- led by Klis (http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/06/13/mike-klis-went-full-retard/) at the Denver Newspaper of Record (http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/05/25/an-open-letter-to-lindsay-h-jones-at-the-denver-post/) -- to be absurd and ridiculous. He's gone, and we got Peyton. We upgraded the QB position. This is a good development.

Jay3
06-14-2012, 06:25 AM
For any NFL franchise that does not have a clearly "elite" starting QB... having Tebow on the roster does indeed bring difficulty.

The Broncos had the "elite" situation in hand, and still dumped Tebow in a fire sale. It could have been really fun. If this team is going to compete for the Super Bowl this year, next year, the following year (presumably Peyton has about 3 good years left), having a "wild thing" off the bench could have been a key difference maker.

Jay3
06-14-2012, 06:26 AM
Fine that you think that way.

I think it was "pathetic" that every Tebow fan and his mother was dissecting every word, phrase or breath from John Elway and somehow attempting to discern meaning.

They turned out to be right.

CEH
06-14-2012, 06:35 AM
The Broncos had the "elite" situation in hand, and still dumped Tebow in a fire sale. It could have been really fun. If this team is going to compete for the Super Bowl this year, next year, the following year (presumably Peyton has about 3 good years left), having a "wild thing" off the bench could have been a key difference maker.

An when would the team have time to practice this wild thing? See these is the "out of the box" unrealitic view Tebow fans have of the way the NFL shoud work to accomodate Tebow whether it's the wildcat or teaching him how to throw a football


Manning gets all the snaps period end of story. It's like that in Den, in GB, in CHI , in NO, in NE where you have a franchise QB and in many camp where you don't. It's one thing to find a place for Tim because its a great NFL player but when your 2nd string you don't get the reps

It's just the way it is

Bacchus
06-14-2012, 06:41 AM
The Broncos had the "elite" situation in hand, and still dumped Tebow in a fire sale. It could have been really fun. If this team is going to compete for the Super Bowl this year, next year, the following year (presumably Peyton has about 3 good years left), having a "wild thing" off the bench could have been a key difference maker.

You keep saying "fun"... screw "fun" I wanna win a SB not have "fun". Fun is for losers.

Blueflame
06-14-2012, 06:41 AM
The Broncos had the "elite" situation in hand, and still dumped Tebow in a fire sale. It could have been really fun. If this team is going to compete for the Super Bowl this year, next year, the following year (presumably Peyton has about 3 good years left), having a "wild thing" off the bench could have been a key difference maker.

Tebow's skillset was never what Elway and Fox wanted from the moment they first saw him throw a football on the first day of last year's training camp. They wanted Peyton's skillset. And they went out and got it. And I, for one, am very glad they did.

Once we got Manning, the only things Tebow was gonna see were the clipboard and the view from the sideline bench.... so Elway did Tebow an enormous favor in allowing him to choose another team to play for.

BroncoBeavis
06-14-2012, 06:55 AM
The Broncos had the "elite" situation in hand, and still dumped Tebow in a fire sale. It could have been really fun. If this team is going to compete for the Super Bowl this year, next year, the following year (presumably Peyton has about 3 good years left), having a "wild thing" off the bench could have been a key difference maker.

Would you quit pwning team hate with your useless facts and logic?

All they want is to keep the Teebs hate thread at the top of the list everyday while pissing and moaning over and over again how tired they are of talking about Tim Tebow. Is that so wrong?

BroncoBeavis
06-14-2012, 06:58 AM
You keep saying "fun"... screw "fun" I wanna win a SB not have "fun". Fun is for losers.

Meh. EFX trotted out the losers early on last season. They were anything but fun.

Blueflame
06-14-2012, 07:01 AM
Would you quit pwning team hate with your useless facts and logic?

All they want is to keep the Teebs hate thread at the top of the list everyday while pissing and moaning over and over again how tired they are of talking about Tim Tebow. Is that so wrong?

... as your post just bumped this thread back to the top..... hehehehehe...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-14-2012, 07:02 AM
They turned out to be right.

No, not really. Sure, in a tin-foil-hat sort of way, I suppose it was all a massive conspiracy to get rid of Tebow, our pursuit of Manning. Problem is, there's not really anything to back it up. Again, unless you're wearing tin foil on your head.

lolcopter
06-14-2012, 07:19 AM
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6489840/images/1256875135103.gif

http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/20291-Dynamite/291/115/103469d1316030180deadhorsetestdead_horse_display.g if

http://www.centralpafire.com/forum/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/TheMoogleDance/1315902052536.gif

Stagger Lee
06-14-2012, 07:25 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=31026&stc=1&d=1339680295

Root for them.

BroncoBeavis
06-14-2012, 08:10 AM
... as your post just bumped this thread back to the top..... hehehehehe...

Doesn't bug me. I didn't really mind "The Circus"

The complacency of losing followed by unexpected Winning was the engine that drove the circus. Unfortunately the Teebhater's schadenfreude was usually more powerful than their hope to win games.

I'm lookin at you, TGN. (call me neg-rep whore :) )

Anyway, at the end of the day, most people know that circuses don't usually last long around 4-12 teams. But that was better than fun I guess. Because fun is for losers (that win)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-14-2012, 08:11 AM
Doesn't bug me. I didn't really mind "The Circus"


The elephants never mind the circus, because they're in it.

missingnumber7
06-14-2012, 08:40 AM
Doesn't bug me. I didn't really mind "The Circus"

The complacency of losing followed by unexpected Winning was the engine that drove the circus. Unfortunately the Teebhater's schadenfreude was usually more powerful than their hope to win games.

I'm lookin at you, TGN. (call me neg-rep whore :) )

Anyway, at the end of the day, most people know that circuses don't usually last long around 4-12 teams. But that was better than fun I guess. Because fun is for losers (that win)

I love how Bronco fans who saw Tebow for what he was and is...a Gimmic...are called haters. Tebow is and will always be a below average QB until he realizes that and starts playing HBack or doing soemthing different where the passing league that is the NFL allows him to be consistently successfull and not a horrible QB for 3 quarters and a 2 minute drill man.


That doesn't make him any less of a good guy.

BroncoBeavis
06-14-2012, 08:56 AM
where the passing league that is the NFL allows him to be consistently successfull and not a horrible QB for 3 quarters and a 2 minute drill man.

By say throwing the ball on 1st down? Totally agree.

But I wouldn't classify everyone who was skeptical about Tebow as a hater. There are limits, however. For instance, if you ever called the guy with a higher career QB rating than Sam Bradford or Mark Sanchez an "Hback" or "Fullback" then I think we can call the spade what it is.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-14-2012, 09:28 AM
Jets want him at 250 pounds. He's gained about 9 already. Starting QB position is becoming an after thought now. He's turning into an invented position made up by Rex Ryan. He's a punt protecting H-back now.

Spider
06-14-2012, 10:10 AM
LOL. tebow sucks

BroncoBeavis
06-14-2012, 10:24 AM
LOL. tebow sucks

GD I missed you guy. :)

broncosteven
06-14-2012, 11:10 AM
Jets want him at 250 pounds. He's gained about 9 already. Starting QB position is becoming an after thought now. He's turning into an invented position made up by Rex Ryan. He's a punt protecting H-back now.

I just saw that, looks like they may want him to take some hand offs kinda like a traditional FB would.

Tebow is bulking up to become the FB/H-back we all thought he could be.

TonyR
06-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Jets want him at 250 pounds. He's gained about 9 already. Starting QB position is becoming an after thought now. He's turning into an invented position made up by Rex Ryan. He's a punt protecting H-back now.

Yup, the good news is that they're going to use him. The bad news is it's not going to be as a QB. They're going to run him, which is probably exactly how he'll be the most useful. I just wonder whether or not the gimmick has an expiration date if overused...

razorwire77
06-14-2012, 11:38 AM
Jets want him at 250 pounds. He's gained about 9 already. Starting QB position is becoming an after thought now. He's turning into an invented position made up by Rex Ryan. He's a punt protecting H-back now.

Which is all fine and dandy until Sanchez limp dicks a couple of games and the circus begins all over again. In all seriousness though, a 250 pound Tebow H-back hybrid, who is still a threat to in certain formations to be a wildcard QB and occasionally throw up a 9 route could be a very dangerous weapon. If Timmy accepts this role, he could wind up being a jumbo package Brad Smith.

Jay3
06-14-2012, 02:07 PM
You keep saying "fun"... screw "fun" I wanna win a SB not have "fun". Fun is for losers.

I mean fun winning -- like last season.

Jay3
06-14-2012, 02:08 PM
Once we got Manning, the only things Tebow was gonna see were the clipboard and the view from the sideline bench.... so Elway did Tebow an enormous favor in allowing him to choose another team to play for.

He really did -- Tebow is way better off, and so are the Jets. I just would have liked to have kept Tebow as a Bronco along with Peyton.

Blueflame
06-14-2012, 02:10 PM
I love how Bronco fans who saw Tebow for what he was and is...a Gimmic...are called haters. Tebow is and will always be a below average QB until he realizes that and starts playing HBack or doing soemthing different where the passing league that is the NFL allows him to be consistently successfull and not a horrible QB for 3 quarters and a 2 minute drill man.


That doesn't make him any less of a good guy.

Exactly... he's lacking some of the tools he needs to play QB at this level and his two choices are to either: A) acquire those necessary tools or B) adjust his focus and change to another position for which he does have the necessary tools (utilize what skills he does have rather than trying to fit the square peg in the round hole). If not... as it's been for other players who lacked necessary tools to play the game... it's "Not For Long". If the Jest are asking him to put on more weight, it looks like they're making Choice B.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-14-2012, 02:23 PM
He really did -- Tebow is way better off, and so are the Jets. I just would have liked to have kept Tebow as a Bronco along with Peyton.

Me too. It is my belief that our fans made that an impossibility. His loudest fans are already calling for him to start in New York in spite of the reality of the situation.

Jay3
06-14-2012, 02:31 PM
No, not really. Sure, in a tin-foil-hat sort of way, I suppose it was all a massive conspiracy to get rid of Tebow, our pursuit of Manning. Problem is, there's not really anything to back it up. Again, unless you're wearing tin foil on your head.

It wasn't a conspiracy or anything done "wrong." But this organization didn't develop Tebow the right way, get the full benefit of Tebow, and apparently didn't make any really meaningful plans to do that once McD got fired. The early leaks from Lombardi were correct, that the outlook was not good for Tebow having the support of the organization.

I don't think they ever buckled down and did the hard work of really developing him.

Blueflame
06-14-2012, 02:31 PM
He really did -- Tebow is way better off, and so are the Jets. I just would have liked to have kept Tebow as a Bronco along with Peyton.

I think that... one move at a time... Elway is putting his own indelible stamp on the team..."erasing" the McDaniels mistakes in the effort to make us all forget that he was even here. In that context, cutting ties and moving on makes a lot of sense. :sunshine:

Jay3
06-14-2012, 02:42 PM
I think that... one move at a time... Elway is putting his own indelible stamp on the team..."erasing" the McDaniels mistakes in the effort to make us all forget that he was even here. In that context, cutting ties and moving on makes a lot of sense. :sunshine:

In hindsight, it fits everything he's done.

Beantown Bronco
06-14-2012, 02:45 PM
It wasn't a conspiracy or anything done "wrong." But this organization didn't develop Tebow the right way, get the full benefit of Tebow, and apparently didn't make any really meaningful plans to do that once McD got fired. The early leaks from Lombardi were correct, that the outlook was not good for Tebow having the support of the organization.

I don't think they ever buckled down and did the hard work of really developing him.

Yeah, it's not like he immediately went from being the backup to being named the starter after McD was fired. Oh, wait a sec.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-14-2012, 02:46 PM
It wasn't a conspiracy or anything done "wrong." But this organization didn't develop Tebow the right way, get the full benefit of Tebow, and apparently didn't make any really meaningful plans to do that once McD got fired. The early leaks from Lombardi were correct, that the outlook was not good for Tebow having the support of the organization.

I don't think they ever buckled down and did the hard work of really developing him.

Or they thought, as the Jets seem to think, that he's not a quarterback, and with him quarterbacking in Denver already out of the bag, you couldn't go backwards and it was best to cut your losses.

Elway wants a QB who can throw consistently. In the modern NFL, to win championships you have to throw consistently. The running game is becoming less and less important in this league, so you've got to be able to toss the rock.

If Tim would have said "the best thing for the team is for me to play H-Back or be a special package player" -- which is true, incidentally -- he could have stayed in Denver. But he didn't, so he couldn't.

That's that.

BroncoBeavis
06-14-2012, 02:54 PM
Yeah, it's not like he immediately went from being the backup to being named the starter after McD was fired. Oh, wait a sec.

There was the Cards game in between. Where old best chance to win went 19 of 41 for 0 TD's and 3 INT's.

They had to start someone else after that fiasco.

Shananahan
06-14-2012, 03:42 PM
Starting QB position is becoming an after thought now.
Don't kid yourself.

errand
06-14-2012, 07:23 PM
They turned out to be right.

But yet when TonyR said Elway wasn't sold on Tebow you and your cronies were unmerciful in your blasting him....

Missouribronc
06-14-2012, 10:22 PM
It wasn't a conspiracy or anything done "wrong." But this organization didn't develop Tebow the right way, get the full benefit of Tebow, and apparently didn't make any really meaningful plans to do that once McD got fired. The early leaks from Lombardi were correct, that the outlook was not good for Tebow having the support of the organization.

I don't think they ever buckled down and did the hard work of really developing him.

How do you develop a quarterback who can't physically throw the football at an NFL level?

Jay3
06-14-2012, 10:27 PM
How do you develop a quarterback who can't physically throw the football at an NFL level?

I don't know the answer to that one. I was talking about Tebow, who can.

I don't see why you guys always have to overstate your case so much. He can throw the football. His mechanics for the short game have needed serious work, and he's done that.

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 12:53 AM
I don't know the answer to that one. I was talking about Tebow, who can.

I don't see why you guys always have to overstate your case so much. He can throw the football. His mechanics for the short game have needed serious work, and he's done that.

Uh... Tebow cannot consistently put the football where it has to be and at the NFL level, QBs are expected to be able to do that.

A handful of good passes in the last few minutes of games won't counterbalance 3 quarters of offensive ineptitude for very long. Tebow still needs a lot of work with mechanics, footwork, timing, and decision-making... and to say otherwise is unrealistic.

I don't think they ever buckled down and did the hard work of really developing him.

If a front office has already ascertained that a given player's skillset does not match their vision for the future of the team, then why would they heavily invest (gamble their own careers) in that player's development? They wouldn't... they'd seek and acquire another player whose skillset is what they're looking for; cut ties with the one who doesn't fit and move on.

Play2win
06-15-2012, 02:01 AM
Tebow belongs in Canada, more than Flutie EVER did.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 05:31 AM
Uh... Tebow cannot consistently put the football where it has to be and at the NFL level, QBs are expected to be able to do that.

Uh. . . . that's not what he said.

If a front office has already ascertained that a given player's skillset does not match their vision for the future of the team,

Do you think they did conclude that? Because that's not what they said. It's not what Elway said on numerous occasions.

But I say any variation of that, somebody tags in and says "conspiracy theory." I do think their actions display that they were not trying to develop him and wanted to go get someone else.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-15-2012, 06:32 AM
Uh. . . . that's not what he said.



Do you think they did conclude that? Because that's not what they said. It's not what Elway said on numerous occasions.

But I say any variation of that, somebody tags in and says "conspiracy theory." I do think their actions display that they were not trying to develop him and wanted to go get someone else.

Because to say ANYTHING else would have invited the circus back in. This isn't the Denver Tebows, it's the Denver Broncos, and he has a TEAM to run, not worry about answering to a ****-ton of know-nothing "TEBOW IS SO WONDERFUL" dip****s. Not necessarily counting you among that bunch because for the most part I think your comments are intelligent in ways that theirs generally were not. But the point remains.

If the GM of a football team is being hammered on all sides, in the press (Paige) and by the fans, and they all just feed off each others' momentum, how's he supposed to do his job?

Thanks, I'll pass on all that. I'd rather he get rid of the distraction (being asked fifty questions about Tebow and two about the rest of the team in an interview, having Paige rip him every single morning like an obsessed teenager with a burn book), cut ties and move on.

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 01:08 PM
Uh. . . . that's not what he said.



Do you think they did conclude that? Because that's not what they said. It's not what Elway said on numerous occasions.

But I say any variation of that, somebody tags in and says "conspiracy theory." I do think their actions display that they were not trying to develop him and wanted to go get someone else.


What he said is: (exact quote)
"How do you develop a quarterback who can't physically throw the football at an NFL level?"

Your reply was:
"I don't know the answer to that one. I was talking about Tebow, who can." (the bolded 2 words are what I'm addressing with my next comment).

So... if, at the NFL level, QBs are expected to be able to consistently put the football where it has to be ("throwing the football at an NFL level") and Tebow cannot do that consistently, then I believe your assertion that "he can"... is patently false.

As for the front office's assessment of Tebow, I'd say their actions just might speak louder than the politically-correct words "the Tebow circus" forced them to carefully choose... words that were parsed from here to eternity anyway by those who were minutely examining every word, every facial expression and every "body language" in the relentless pursuit of something to be outraged over. It's purely business; Tebow's skillset was not what they wanted so they took the first opportunity they got to upgrade to someone who does. And in the process, they put Tebow into a better situation for his career too. Win/win from my perspective.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 01:39 PM
Because to say ANYTHING else would have invited the circus back in. This isn't the Denver Tebows, it's the Denver Broncos, and he has a TEAM to run, not worry about answering to a ****-ton of know-nothing "TEBOW IS SO WONDERFUL" dip****s. Not necessarily counting you among that bunch because for the most part I think your comments are intelligent in ways that theirs generally were not. But the point remains.

If the GM of a football team is being hammered on all sides, in the press (Paige) and by the fans, and they all just feed off each others' momentum, how's he supposed to do his job?

Thanks, I'll pass on all that. I'd rather he get rid of the distraction (being asked fifty questions about Tebow and two about the rest of the team in an interview, having Paige rip him every single morning like an obsessed teenager with a burn book), cut ties and move on.

I genuinely didn't think Elway was affected by all that -- Woody Paige, tweets, or fans. I think he made a football decision.

Which is why I tend to push back at all the statements that it was the "circus" that caused the Tebow trade. I don't believe that of Elway.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 01:48 PM
What he said is: (exact quote)
"How do you develop a quarterback who can't physically throw the football at an NFL level?"

Your reply was:
"I don't know the answer to that one. I was talking about Tebow, who can." (the bolded 2 words are what I'm addressing with my next comment).

So... if, at the NFL level, QBs are expected to be able to consistently put the football where it has to be ("throwing the football at an NFL level") and Tebow cannot do that consistently, then I believe your assertion that "he can"... is patently false.

It is not "patently false." He said he can't "physically throw at the NFL level" so he can't be taught the rest. You're adding in more advanced and nuanced notions of (1) consistency, something that can be increased over time; and (2) putting it where it needs to go, which involves decision-making.

It's fine to disagree -- you think the kid is not NFL quarterback material. But don't try to bootstrap your disagreement in opinion with me throwing out "patent" falsehoods. The guy overstated his case, and I lodged my disagreement.

It's purely business; Tebow's skillset was not what they wanted so they took the first opportunity they got to upgrade to someone who does. And in the process, they put Tebow into a better situation for his career too. Win/win from my perspective.

This is how I pretty much see it, but I see quite a lot of posting that the "circus" is the reason Tebow is no longer here, that Tebow's fans are to blame, etc. So I like to lodge my disagreement with that.

I also see a lot of overblown, overestimation of the impact of said "circus." It's become a meme, a cliche, a trite expression that people use to try and get some feelings out about Tebow. I think they sense they've sort of rushed to judgment on him, so they grasp about for some sort of reason -- like "It was the circus. Tebow the player and person are fine, but the circus is so unbearable that he requires unusual action."

For example, you suggested the other day there would be some sort of palpable problem with Bruschi, and there wasn't. That was just overestimation on your part. And I think it's because you have pent up feelings about Tebow that you have to let out against "the circus."

In many minds, like yours, Tebows fans are represented by that one we had here (name escapes me -- that worst one). Even though on an intellectual level, you know he was a troll and an extreme outlayer, on an emotional level, you're having a dialog with him, as if he is the representative.

Shananahan
06-15-2012, 01:49 PM
A) Tebow is a walking QB controversy with an enormous, rabid fanbase which made it difficult to keep him in a backup position, even behind a guy like Manning, especially given his success last season
B) Tebow needs to improve his passing and reading of defenses and the team didn't think he would get to that level, even after three years behind a guy like Manning
C) Tebow requested a trade
D) Manning requested that Tebow be traded because of A
E) Both A and B
F) Both C and E
G) Both D and E

Jay3
06-15-2012, 01:54 PM
A) Tebow is a walking QB controversy with an enormous, rabid fanbase which made it difficult to keep him in a backup position, even behind a guy like Manning, especially given his success last season
B) Tebow is needs to improve his passing and reading of defenses and the team didn't think he would get to that level, even after three years behind a guy like Manning
C) Tebow requested a trade
D) Manning requested that Tebow be traded because of A
E) Both A and B
F) Both C and E
G) Both D and E

(H) Tebow is a fascinating, polarizing figure, who has inspired extreme dislike and extreme fanhood for years, going back to college. Any attempt to explain and compartmentalize his inexplicable popularity (and dislike) is oversimplification -- for some reason, he causes experts and fans alike to have diametrically opposed opinions about him.

And there's no need to "resolve" why -- it's fun to watch the show.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 01:55 PM
And the real reason he was traded, in my mind? He's an alpha, a dominating personality and presence. He will be fully in the hunt for a starting gig over the next 3 to 5 years. And I think the team recognized he deserves to get started on that shot.

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 02:01 PM
And the real reason he was traded, in my mind? He's an alpha, a dominating personality and presence. He will be fully in the hunt for a starting gig over the next 3 to 5 years. And I think the team recognized he deserves to get started on that shot.He's an alpha!? LOL unless tebow switches to h-back or TE,he won't be in the league in 3-5 yrs.

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 02:03 PM
(H) Tebow is a fascinating, polarizing figure, who has inspired extreme dislike and extreme fanhood for years, going back to college. Any attempt to explain and compartmentalize his inexplicable popularity (and dislike) is oversimplification -- for some reason, he causes experts and fans alike to have diametrically opposed opinions about him.

And there's no need to "resolve" why -- it's fun to watch the show.It's just a shame popularity doesn't make a good QB. It does seem to make a good ST player.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-15-2012, 02:14 PM
I genuinely didn't think Elway was affected by all that -- Woody Paige, tweets, or fans. I think he made a football decision.

Which is why I tend to push back at all the statements that it was the "circus" that caused the Tebow trade. I don't believe that of Elway.

I guess we just fundamentally disagree. It would affect anyone, being called a moron in the press and by the fans on a daily basis, especially after doing what he's done for this team and franchise.

The questions began to wear on him. He had to go into interviews having every word so perfectly chosen in order not to offend any of the Tebow nutjobs that were afoot. You REALLY think that didn't affect how he viewed the whole situation?

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 02:14 PM
It is not "patently false." He said he can't "physically throw at the NFL level" so he can't be taught the rest. You're adding in more advanced and nuanced notions of (1) consistency, something that can be increased over time; and (2) putting it where it needs to go, which involves decision-making.

It's fine to disagree -- you think the kid is not NFL quarterback material. But don't try to bootstrap your disagreement in opinion with me throwing out "patent" falsehoods. The guy overstated his case, and I lodged my disagreement.

I disagree with your position that Tebow has proven that "he can" play the QB position at the NFL level, which by nature demands consistency. Again, my take is that an inconsistent passer won't be playing in the NFL for long, much less starting.

This is how I pretty much see it, but I see quite a lot of posting that the "circus" is the reason Tebow is no longer here, that Tebow's fans are to blame, etc. So I like to lodge my disagreement with that.

I also see a lot of overblown, overestimation of the impact of said "circus." It's become a meme, a cliche, a trite expression that people use to try and get some feelings out about Tebow. I think they sense they've sort of rushed to judgment on him, so they grasp about for some sort of reason -- like "It was the circus. Tebow the player and person are fine, but the circus is so unbearable that he requires unusual action."

For example, you suggested the other day there would be some sort of palpable problem with Bruschi, and there wasn't. That was just overestimation on your part. And I think it's because you have pent up feelings about Tebow that you have to let out against "the circus."

In many minds, like yours, Tebows fans are represented by that one we had here (name escapes me -- that worst one). Even though on an intellectual level, you know he was a troll and an extreme outlayer, on an emotional level, you're having a dialog with him, as if he is the representative.

I believe that Tebow's fans (the circus) demanded that he be elevated to a starting role before he was anywhere near ready. He would have benefited greatly by having the luxury of extra time (as a backup) to work on his problem areas (mechanics, footwork and decision-making). IMHO.

Hey, it's fine by me if you don't believe it's a distraction to the team for the media to focus on a single player to the exclusion of all other players on the team... even if that player is a backup. Reality (as evidenced by post-Tebow remarks from his former teammates) is that yes, there is some resentment and friction brought on by it. It does not have a positive effect on the locker room or team cohesion.

It's the offseason, Jay... pressure (from "the circus") in New York will increase, as will the media's coverage of Tebow... the nanosecond that Sanchez starts to struggle.

I'm very much aware that not all Tebow fans are "MacGruders". But there is, in fact, a fairly large demographic that only watch the NFL for Tim Tebow... and know very little about the NFL or how it differs from college ball. They just know they like Tim and are fully prepared to relentlessly rip into anyone and everyone who fails to kiss his butt.

bronco militia
06-15-2012, 02:17 PM
I disagree with your position that Tebow has proven that "he can" play the QB position at the NFL level, which by nature demands consistency. Again, my take is that an inconsistent passer won't be playing in the NFL for long, much less starting.



I believe that Tebow's fans (the circus) demanded that he be elevated to a starting role before he was anywhere near ready. He would have benefited greatly by having the luxury of extra time (as a backup) to work on his problem areas (mechanics, footwork and decision-making). IMHO.

Hey, it's fine by me if you don't believe it's a distraction to the team for the media to focus on a single player to the exclusion of all other players on the team... even if that player is a backup. Reality (as evidenced by post-Tebow remarks from his former teammates) is that yes, there is some resentment and friction brought on by it. It does not have a positive effect on the locker room or team cohesion.

It's the offseason, Jay... pressure (from "the circus") in New York will increase, as will the media's coverage of Tebow... the nanosecond that Sanchez starts to struggle.

I'm very much aware that not all Tebow fans are "MacGruders". But there is, in fact, a fairly large demographic that only watch the NFL for Tim Tebow... and know very little about the NFL or how it differs from college ball. They just know they like Tim and are fully prepared to relentlessly rip into anyone and everyone who fails to kiss his butt.

what would have really helped Tebow out was a better Kyle Orton or Brady Quinn.

holy crap do those guys suck at playing QB.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-15-2012, 02:18 PM
It is not "patently false." He said he can't "physically throw at the NFL level" so he can't be taught the rest. You're adding in more advanced and nuanced notions of (1) consistency, something that can be increased over time; and (2) putting it where it needs to go, which involves decision-making.

It's fine to disagree -- you think the kid is not NFL quarterback material. But don't try to bootstrap your disagreement in opinion with me throwing out "patent" falsehoods. The guy overstated his case, and I lodged my disagreement.



This is how I pretty much see it, but I see quite a lot of posting that the "circus" is the reason Tebow is no longer here, that Tebow's fans are to blame, etc. So I like to lodge my disagreement with that.

I also see a lot of overblown, overestimation of the impact of said "circus." It's become a meme, a cliche, a trite expression that people use to try and get some feelings out about Tebow. I think they sense they've sort of rushed to judgment on him, so they grasp about for some sort of reason -- like "It was the circus. Tebow the player and person are fine, but the circus is so unbearable that he requires unusual action."

For example, you suggested the other day there would be some sort of palpable problem with Bruschi, and there wasn't. That was just overestimation on your part. And I think it's because you have pent up feelings about Tebow that you have to let out against "the circus."

In many minds, like yours, Tebows fans are represented by that one we had here (name escapes me -- that worst one). Even though on an intellectual level, you know he was a troll and an extreme outlayer, on an emotional level, you're having a dialog with him, as if he is the representative.

You can't really be serious.

Stories are still being printed DAILY in Denver about Tebow, his parents' anniversary, what he's doing, whether or not he shaved, a girl taking a cutout of him to prom, and other assorted bull****. And you REALLY don't think it's a circus?

Open your eyes, man.

Just because you're not AT the circus doesn't mean there's something else under that tent you're driving by every day.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 02:45 PM
You can't really be serious.

Stories are still being printed DAILY in Denver about Tebow, his parents' anniversary, what he's doing, whether or not he shaved, a girl taking a cutout of him to prom, and other assorted bull****. And you REALLY don't think it's a circus?

Open your eyes, man.

Just because you're not AT the circus doesn't mean there's something else under that tent you're driving by every day.

Oh, you're talking about the media coverage? Yes, that is unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

I'm talking about the talk of "You know what the problem is with Tebow? It's his fans." The attempt to make the problem be his "fans."

The fact is that he moves the needle -- people are interested in him. Even people that don't like him. Even people walking the street. He's an odd mystery as to why it happens. And the media coverage is just off the charts.

I don't think it is the reason he was dumped by the Broncos. I think it was a football decision.

And I think there's too much of a tendency of those over on the "vaguely negative" side (whether "haters" or just "I think he lacks . . . ") to blame everything on his fans.

The fact is that he is an enigma, a unique player.

There have been 100 chances for him to fall off the radar screen into obscurity -- but at every turn he does something unexpected.

If he hadn't had a winning streak, he would have been toasted.

After that KC game, a dumpster fire, if they hadn't won the Pittsburgh game, it would have been "close the book." But he played well against Pittsburgh. Forget the excuses -- he pulled the trigger in that game and played well.

Now it's starting all over again -- I'm telling you, he's looking good in NY. They don't know what we know. He's throwing it quicker, tighter, better spiral. He's still no Tom Brady, but he's getting better. He's never had an OTA and mini-camp like this. That offense they run is more tailored to his style, and with the wildcat they'll have him running, he's going to be a heck of a player for them.

He still throws the shortest stuff the worst.

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 02:55 PM
what would have really helped Tebow out was a better Kyle Orton or Brady Quinn.

holy crap do those guys suck at playing QB.

Tebow needed to be drafted by a team that already had an unchallengeable starter like Brees or Rodgers so that the circus had no possibility of creating a QB controversy and he could have time to address his areas of weakness without the constant pressure.

And yes, Orton and Quinn do indeed suck... Orton's career has already lasted longer than I expected it to.

Shananahan
06-15-2012, 03:04 PM
(H) Tebow is a fascinating, polarizing figure, who has inspired extreme dislike and extreme fanhood for years, going back to college. Any attempt to explain and compartmentalize his inexplicable popularity (and dislike) is oversimplification -- for some reason, he causes experts and fans alike to have diametrically opposed opinions about him.
So...... the circus?

bronco militia
06-15-2012, 03:05 PM
Tebow needed to be drafted by a team that already had an unchallengeable starter like Brees or Rodgers so that the circus had no possibility of creating a QB controversy and he could have time to address his areas of weakness without the constant pressure.

And yes, Orton and Quinn do indeed suck... Orton's career has already lasted longer than I expected it to.

well yeah...too bad the clown that drafted Tebow thought Matt Cassel was better than Jay Cutler

:cuss:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-15-2012, 03:59 PM
Oh, you're talking about the media coverage? Yes, that is unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

I'm talking about the talk of "You know what the problem is with Tebow? It's his fans." The attempt to make the problem be his "fans."



The problem is that the two (the media and the fans) feed off the momentum the other gives. THAT is the problem. The circus is the whole thing put together, but ignoring the fans' role in it is just disingenuous.

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 04:02 PM
Oh, you're talking about the media coverage? Yes, that is unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my life.I'm talking about the talk of "You know what the problem is with Tebow? It's his fans." The attempt to make the problem be his "fans."

The fact is that he moves the needle -- people are interested in him. Even people that don't like him. Even people walking the street. He's an odd mystery as to why it happens. And the media coverage is just off the charts.

I don't think it is the reason he was dumped by the Broncos. I think it was a football decision.

And I think there's too much of a tendency of those over on the "vaguely negative" side (whether "haters" or just "I think he lacks . . . ") to blame everything on his fans.

The fact is that he is an enigma, a unique player.

There have been 100 chances for him to fall off the radar screen into obscurity -- but at every turn he does something unexpected.

If he hadn't had a winning streak, he would have been toasted.

After that KC game, a dumpster fire, if they hadn't won the Pittsburgh game, it would have been "close the book." But he played well against Pittsburgh. Forget the excuses -- he pulled the trigger in that game and played well.

Now it's starting all over again -- I'm telling you, he's looking good in NY. They don't know what we know. He's throwing it quicker, tighter, better spiral. He's still no Tom Brady, but he's getting better. He's never had an OTA and mini-camp like this. That offense they run is more tailored to his style, and with the wildcat they'll have him running, he's going to be a heck of a player for them.

He still throws the shortest stuff the worst.it wasn't the media making a debacle in the 1st game of the season last yr. they weren't cheering tebow in game 1. It wasn't channel 9 news putting up billboards.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 04:17 PM
it wasn't the media making a debacle in the 1st game of the season last yr. they weren't cheering tebow in game 1. It wasn't channel 9 news putting up billboards.

Wow, fresh off a 4-12 season and fresh into the same tired QB pissing a home Raider game away to open the season, and the fans get restless. Must be Tebow's fault. LOL

I think we can finally diagnose it for what it is. TDS.

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 04:21 PM
Wow, fresh off a 4-12 season and fresh into the same tired QB pissing a home Raider game away to open the season, and the fans get restless. Must be Tebow's fault. LOL

I think we can finally diagnose it for what it is. TDS.

I'm not blaming tebow for the idiots in the stands.

BTW,how many QBs has denver had where in the 1st game of the season were fans already getting "restless" & chanting for the back-up QB?

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm not blaming tebow for the idiots in the stands.

Do you imagine it would've been any different if say Curtis Painter were hoodied up on the sidelines?

Jay3
06-15-2012, 04:42 PM
it wasn't the media making a debacle in the 1st game of the season last yr. they weren't cheering tebow in game 1. It wasn't channel 9 news putting up billboards.

That's one thing that confuses me -- do you think the ones cheering "Tebow" at the games were these supposed "noobie" fans of Tebow, who have very little exposure to the NFL, and care about nothing but Tebow? Because my thinking is the ones out there at games in Denver were Denver Broncos fans. So I resist the notion that there's this group of toxic "Tebow fans" that show up and make it impossible for a franchise (and have followed him to NY). Seems like bona fide Denver Broncos fans also had a thing or to to say.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 04:44 PM
It wasn't channel 9 news putting up billboards.

The billboard was put up by a local merchant, and it had an advertisement for his website. Is that what's being attributed to "fans?" Seems like he was marketing to local, Denver residents. I don't think people who actually live in Denver are supposed to be the problem, are they?

Jay3
06-15-2012, 04:47 PM
The problem is that the two (the media and the fans) feed off the momentum the other gives. THAT is the problem. The circus is the whole thing put together, but ignoring the fans' role in it is just disingenuous.

I'm not ignoring the fans, I'm pushing back against the notion that the fans are causing any real problems, or at least suggesting it's been blown way out of proportion. I've seen so much of this "his fans are the problem, he has to go," and I think there's a little bit of dishonesty there.

I think it just causes a sort of deep-seated stress, because the kid is kind of hard to categorize and dismiss. There's some sort of desire to resolve things, and he's irresolvable at this point.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 04:51 PM
BTW,how many QBs has denver had where in the 1st game of the season were fans already getting "restless" & chanting for the back-up QB?

FWIW, I live in Panthers country, and we've all hated Jake Delhomme for years. We've been rooting for each new guy in town to take his job. It seems like a pretty normal mode for us.

I was surprised to see so much deep-rooted urging that Kyle Orton must be supported, and that anyone who would want to get the first round athlete out there must be some kind of 13 year old girl.

It's a pretty conventional set of circumstances -- team loses, fans rush project QB onto field.

But again, because of the polarizing nature of Tebow, everybody analyzes through that lens. I don't deny that it's somehow different -- but it's different in a kind of cool, fascinating way. Not different in miserable, "oh noes" kind of way.

Blueflame
06-15-2012, 05:20 PM
That's one thing that confuses me -- do you think the ones cheering "Tebow" at the games were these supposed "noobie" fans of Tebow, who have very little exposure to the NFL, and care about nothing but Tebow? Because my thinking is the ones out there at games in Denver were Denver Broncos fans. So I resist the notion that there's this group of toxic "Tebow fans" that show up and make it impossible for a franchise (and have followed him to NY). Seems like bona fide Denver Broncos fans also had a thing or to to say.

I daresay that the majority of the bona fide Denver Broncos fans are not at all disgruntled with having Peyton Manning instead of Tebow... even those who might have chanted for Tebow to take over for the struggling Orton at some of last season's games. Bona fide fans of the team are generally delighted with the acquisition of a significant upgrade... particularly since we didn't have to compensate Indianapolis (give up draft picks) to do it.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 05:35 PM
I daresay that the majority of the bona fide Denver Broncos fans are not at all disgruntled with having Peyton Manning instead of Tebow... even those who might have chanted for Tebow to take over for the struggling Orton at some of last season's games. Bona fide fans of the team are generally delighted with the acquisition of a significant upgrade... particularly since we didn't have to compensate Indianapolis (give up draft picks) to do it.

I think there was majority support for getting Manning. Not for ditching Tebow. Which is why the franchise is in for a rude awakening if Favre II falls short.