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Broncos4tw
01-01-2012, 04:32 PM
screw you. i didn't know anything about Tebow before we drafted him. if you think i'm a Tebow fan first, you are wrong. but i'm not a knee-jerk reactionary who sits at home on his couch with a 12-pack of beer and doesn't know **** about the QB position. it's the most complicated position in the game, and alot of variables factor into the success or failure of a QB. if you think this poor performance was Tebow's fault and Tebow's fault alone, you don't know anything, so you should shut up now. if Tebow was a 5th year veteran i'd be a lot harsher in my assessment. but he's not. and we are being crippled by awful gameplans and playcalling, among other factors. so as much as i am disgusted by this game and last weeks games, i understand that there are teething pains with young quarterbacks. the problem is that Tebow is capable of doing alot more than he did. he is shackled by the gameplan and i think he's so afraid of making a mistake that he's no longer "playing his game" and he's regressing.

Well, you clearly don't know a lot about football if you think everything is peachy. QBs learn their passing skills well before they enter the NFL. Not once they are drafted. Example: Cam Newton. Not a great year for his team, and he is clearly dealing with the learning curve of the NFL, and the speed and complexity. But you can see his ability to pass the ball. This is much different than Tebow, who was a run first guy, with rather terrible mechanics as a passer.

I am not saying it's all Tebow, but it starts with the QB. If you can't complete 30% of your passes, stop blaming the coaches, stop blaming the receivers. The QB has issues. You know squat about football if you think this is everyone's fault but Tebow's. The entire gameplan is inspired and planned around what Tebow is capable of. All our wins were by the skin of our teeth. Three in overtime. Pathetic offense capped off with miracle finishes and a great showing by our defense, who got next to no credit, when they are the real reason we won those games. Instead, fans like you salivated over Tebow like he was the next coming of Elway or something. Get real.

I even like him as a player. I like the excitement he brings. But he never developed the pocket passer skills needed to succeed in this NFL. Gimmick offenses fail, time and again. Raw skill is needed, and he is lacking.

Gort
01-01-2012, 04:33 PM
I think next week, Fox should let Tebow throw a ton of passes. Then at least when he fails horribly, people will shut the hell up about what a horrible coach he is, and how Tebow is the next great coming of QB.

that's not the answer either and that's not what people are complaining about. listen closely and i'll explain it to you.

it's clear that Tebow is trying to make everyone happy by becoming a pocket passer. in doing that, he's giving up that part of his game in which he excels, which is improvisation. we've seen over and over the past couple of weeks where he runs around behind the line desperately trying to make a play with his arm instead of his feet. problem is, he won't throw the ball unless he's sure it's not going to be intercepted, so he hesitates and waits and waits and it's led to a couple of ridiculously long sacks. the problem is not that Tebow isn't throwing, it's that when they let him throw, it's in predictable situations when his likelihood of success is much reduced. he also doesn't have the experience to make the best of our young receiving core. it's just the worst possible scenario these past couple of weeks... we don't throw until we have to, and when we do, we have a young QB making young QB mistakes.

Br0nc0Buster
01-01-2012, 04:34 PM
I think everyone should refrain judgement on Tebow until he gets his first real NFL off-season to develop. He's made some big steps forward and taken a few smaller steps back when thrown into the fire this season. His receivers did nothing to help him today, the defense let KC control the clock through the first half, getting stops at the last possible minute, and Fox/McCoy were absolutely horrible at managing the clock and calling the game.

There is a real lack of consistency and polish in the way this team plays football, in all three phases. But there is real potential here if we can add a few key pieces and let everyone have a full off-season to mature together and find some chemistry.

People really need to stop saying this, he had some open guys out there
Just either wouldnt throw it to them or would miss them

Also the defense is the only reason we were in the game, how on earth can anyone possibly blame them when we yet again went an entire quarter without a first down

Miss I.
01-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Here's my hangover observations:
1. Bad game, very bad game. Tim is shook by his poor performances and it really showed up today. He cannot do that. He has to get it together. I still believe he can.
2. While there were some WRs making a few bad plays, the bulk of the offensive dead drives lies with Tebow.
3. Our Running Backs kicked ass.
4. I am hoping and praying for Chris Kuper. He will be missed.
5. Our Defense and STs did better this game, but I would really like to see if our returners can't make more happen.

Ultimately we are way ahead of where we were at the beginning of the season. I don't know if that would've happened with Orton or not, I really don't know so Tebow is going to be our starter next year at least in the beginning, but I think we might make a move for a QB in the draft or possibly get a more experience back up from elsewhere. I like Tim, but we can't win if this is how our offense plays. Funny thing is, we are AFC West division champs, as we were under Plummer a few years back, but that team deserved to be there, I don't know that we do. We don't stand a very good chance against anyone at this point, but I still believe in miracles so who knows what will happen on any given Sunday.

Gort
01-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Well, you clearly don't know a lot about football if you think everything is peachy. QBs learn their passing skills well before they enter the NFL. Not once they are drafted. Example: Cam Newton. Not a great year for his team, and he is clearly dealing with the learning curve of the NFL, and the speed and complexity. But you can see his ability to pass the ball. This is much different than Tebow, who was a run first guy, with rather terrible mechanics as a passer.

I am not saying it's all Tebow, but it starts with the QB. If you can't complete 30% of your passes, stop blaming the coaches, stop blaming the receivers. The QB has issues. You know squat about football if you think this is everyone's fault but Tebow's. The entire gameplan is inspired and planned around what Tebow is capable of. All our wins were by the skin of our teeth. Three in overtime. Pathetic offense capped off with miracle finishes and a great showing by our defense, who got next to no credit, when they are the real reason we won those games. Instead, fans like you salivated over Tebow like he was the next coming of Elway or something. Get real.

I even like him as a player. I like the excitement he brings. But he never developed the pocket passer skills needed to succeed in this NFL. Gimmick offenses fail, time and again. Raw skill is needed, and he is lacking.

do you think Cam Newton would have anything close to the same year or stats if Fox was still in Carolina? i don't. that's the problem with Fox. he's Reeves 2.0 with a young QB.

it's not all Tebow's fault. most of it isn't (at least until these past 2 weeks. these past 2 weeks he's regressed). young QBs have success or failure as a direct result of the players around them and the coaching on the sidelines. Tom Brady in his 8th or 10th year would be successful anywhere. if Tebow gets to his 8th year, i'd say the same. but many young QBs have come into this league with all of the skills and ended up on bad teams with bad coaches and have seen their careers fizzle quickly. do you not understand that the QB position is the one most dependent on everyone else doing their jobs well in order for the QB to have success?

DarkHorse30
01-01-2012, 04:35 PM
I think everyone should refrain judgement on Tebow until he gets his first real NFL off-season to develop. He's made some big steps forward and taken a few smaller steps back when thrown into the fire this season. His receivers did nothing to help him today, the defense let KC control the clock through the first half, getting stops at the last possible minute, and Fox/McCoy were absolutely horrible at managing the clock and calling the game.

There is a real lack of consistency and polish in the way this team plays football, in all three phases. But there is real potential here if we can add a few key pieces and let everyone have a full off-season to mature together and find some chemistry.

It looked to me like they got themselves open but Tebow never pulled the trigger. I don't think he sees the field that well, or has an inkling when one of his guys is open.

broncobum6162
01-01-2012, 04:37 PM
screw you. i didn't know anything about Tebow before we drafted him. if you think i'm a Tebow fan first, you are wrong. but i'm not a knee-jerk reactionary who sits at home on his couch with a 12-pack of beer and doesn't know **** about the QB position. it's the most complicated position in the game, and alot of variables factor into the success or failure of a QB. if you think this poor performance was Tebow's fault and Tebow's fault alone, you don't know anything, so you should shut up now. if Tebow was a 5th year veteran i'd be a lot harsher in my assessment. but he's not. and we are being crippled by awful gameplans and playcalling, among other factors. so as much as i am disgusted by this game and last weeks games, i understand that there are teething pains with young quarterbacks. the problem is that Tebow is capable of doing alot more than he did. he is shackled by the gameplan and i think he's so afraid of making a mistake that he's no longer "playing his game" and he's regressing.

Fo Shizzle............this **** has to end. Fire McCoy and Gase, put Fox on notice, tell the WR's to catch the Fing Ball and get this kid some seriously good coaching and playcalling then there will be no more excuses and reasons for him not to develop. Then watch the fun begin..

ol#7
01-01-2012, 04:38 PM
Its "because" of the coaches. They have him so worried about mistakes now that he is actually making them that he's scared to play. He looks defeated and lost on the sidelines.

The thing is, he has never lit it up. Just when was he playing with this confidence? Teams have figured us out and Tebow wont make the throws that are there. He just doesnt see the WR's coming open, and that is worrisome.

Br0nc0Buster
01-01-2012, 04:38 PM
It is hard to really take anyone seriously who keeps blaming everyone around Tim

Team isnt perfect obviously, but he was straight up pathetic today

Its ok to admit that, his career is not over
Still has time to improve

But the constant receiver blaming, saying things like the coaches are screwing with is head, etc.... are getting old

Broncos4tw
01-01-2012, 04:39 PM
that's not the answer either and that's not what people are complaining about. listen closely and i'll explain it to you.

it's clear that Tebow is trying to make everyone happy by becoming a pocket passer. in doing that, he's giving up that part of his game in which he excels, which is improvisation.

No, I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. It's been said many time that once teams "figure out" Tebow, we'll be in trouble. And what they really meant by that, is defenses not failing to pay attention to their coverages. Not get out of their zone. To account for Tebow. The last three weeks, defenses have done this. He has been contained. It's similar to what happened with the wildcat offense. It really is a gimmick, in this NFL, where speed and skill actually matter. Trick plays will not cut it for long. It barely cut it during our "miracle" run, where we scrapped out wins. They have sealed the edges, and kept Tebow under wraps.

It has nothing to do with Tebow being unable to improvise. It has to do with defenses not allowing him to play FB or RB, and forcing him to be a QB. He really does have to develop as a passer, or he will never make it. And as I said, it's only a matter of time before he is benched for an injury.

It's only his first real year. And did you see him on the sideline? With a bleeding lip, a cut on his arm? He is a QB, not a FB. He can't be both, he'll pay the price physically, and defense won't allow it. The option really is a gimmick, in the NFL, and can't last.

broncobum6162
01-01-2012, 04:42 PM
that's not the answer either and that's not what people are complaining about. listen closely and i'll explain it to you.

it's clear that Tebow is trying to make everyone happy by becoming a pocket passer. in doing that, he's giving up that part of his game in which he excels, which is improvisation. we've seen over and over the past couple of weeks where he runs around behind the line desperately trying to make a play with his arm instead of his feet. problem is, he won't throw the ball unless he's sure it's not going to be intercepted, so he hesitates and waits and waits and it's led to a couple of ridiculously long sacks. the problem is not that Tebow isn't throwing, it's that when they let him throw, it's in predictable situations when his likelihood of success is much reduced. he also doesn't have the experience to make the best of our young receiving core. it's just the worst possible scenario these past couple of weeks... we don't throw until we have to, and when we do, we have a young QB making young QB mistakes.


Yep. He has to do better but the deck is stacked.......He deserves a whole offseason w/ a coaching staff who knows what the hell is going on..

Miss I.
01-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Well we got into the playoffs and my Godson got into the university he wanted so all in all not too bad for a New Year! (yes I would've preferred a win, but it is what it is, now we have to get it together and see what we are made of or we will look like KC did against Indy when they backed in...ouch).

Broncos4tw
01-01-2012, 04:43 PM
do you think Cam Newton would have anything close to the same year or stats if Fox was still in Carolina? i don't. that's the problem with Fox. he's Reeves 2.0 with a young QB.

No, I don't agree. Yes, he is a conservative, run first, defense all-important sort of coach, he in Tebow's case, he is doing what he has to do, to try to win games. The proof is in the pudding my friend. Just look at Tebow's passing #s not just today, but throughout the year. He by and far, and when it matters (3rd down), has been terrible.

The feeble of excuse of "Tebow is failing because he is nervous and gun shy because they don't let him throw enough" is pathetic. He is supposed to be one of the top 32 people in the entire nation who can play QB than any other. At this level, you don't get a "comfort" zone. For the multi-millions you are paid, you are expected to deliver. Comfort is not an excuse. When an opportunity presets itself to prove you can do it, you do it. You don't throw 7 yards off from your receivers. You don't miss wide open receivers and flounder around for a loss, taking a sack and out of FG range.

MortonToMoses
01-01-2012, 04:44 PM
It is hard to really take anyone seriously who keeps blaming everyone around Tim

Team isnt perfect obviously, but he was straight up pathetic today

Its ok to admit that, his career is not over
Still has time to improve

But the constant receiver blaming, saying things like the coaches are screwing with is head, etc.... are getting old

Can't add much more. Fill other holes on the team and give him another year. If he doesn't improve, then deal with it the following year.

+1

Broncos_OTM
01-01-2012, 04:45 PM
Thanks for the ride Tebow!! I'm glad we won the division even with the cirumstances. I hope we come out next week and play our hearts out.

Tebow frustrates me a bit. I hope Denver brings in some competition. If tim wins the competition next year good if not im ready to move on.

broncobum6162
01-01-2012, 04:46 PM
The thing is, he has never lit it up. Just when was he playing with this confidence? Teams have figured us out and Tebow wont make the throws that are there. He just doesnt see the WR's coming open, and that is worrisome.

He's never lit it up because that wasn't in the gameplan. Yes they figured him out, but it's up to the coaching staff to start trusting him when he did come thru for them by winning games. His fire is gone, it's obvious the way he's being coached is not the way to bring out the best in him. We are still trying to do the same things as when he first started playing. Everyone has adjusted but the coaching staff and Tebow is doing his part by trying to play like they want him too..

Drek
01-01-2012, 04:48 PM
People really need to stop saying this, he had some open guys out there
Just either wouldnt throw it to them or would miss them

Also the defense is the only reason we were in the game, how on earth can anyone possibly blame them when we yet again went an entire quarter without a first down

Really? Matt Willis had an obvious reception late in the game that he outright dropped. Dante Rosario had a key reception over the middle he dropped. Thomas dropped a couple passes. Eddie Royal is such a mess at WR he doesn't even get to a point where he can then drop the ball, getting crushed repeatedly by press coverage and running the wrong routes (as was obvious early in the game when he kept heading down the field on what was obviously supposed to be a curl).

Tebow does make some bad throws and misses a some open guys. But his receivers have consistently cost him several key completions a game.

I'm also not blaming the defense. Hell, I'm not blaming anyone. But this is a very rough defense. They lack polish and consistency. The offense started within the 15 multiple times because the defense surrendered first downs until the last possible moment. This was due to missed tackles and poor containment.

My point is that this entire team needs more time. Tebow needs a real off-season to show growth. The WRs need an off-season to get acclimated to working with him and mature themselves, as the two best WRs (Thomas and Decker) are just as young and raw as Tebow. The defense is in only their first year running the 4-3 with Ayers suddenly at DE, DJ back to WOLB, and three young guys (Carter, Bruton, Moore) playing heavy time at safety.

The FO needs to identify the areas where they see little room for growth and fix those. But they also need to respect just how young and raw much of this team actually is and let them grow before spending resources replacing them. We've got enough problems with no young high ceiling guys to fix as it is.

Gort
01-01-2012, 04:48 PM
No, I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. It's been said many time that once teams "figure out" Tebow, we'll be in trouble. And what they really meant by that, is defenses not failing to pay attention to their coverages. Not get out of their zone. To account for Tebow. The last three weeks, defenses have done this. He has been contained. It's similar to what happened with the wildcat offense. It really is a gimmick, in this NFL, where speed and skill actually matter. Trick plays will not cut it for long. It barely cut it during our "miracle" run, where we scrapped out wins. They have sealed the edges, and kept Tebow under wraps.

It has nothing to do with Tebow being unable to improvise. It has to do with defenses not allowing him to play FB or RB, and forcing him to be a QB. He really does have to develop as a passer, or he will never make it. And as I said, it's only a matter of time before he is benched for an injury.

It's only his first real year. And did you see him on the sideline? With a bleeding lip, a cut on his arm? He is a QB, not a FB. He can't be both, he'll pay the price physically, and defense won't allow it. The option really is a gimmick, in the NFL, and can't last.

didn't Eli get his face ripped off last year? i don't recall anyone using that as evidence that Eli was paying too great a physical price.

here's the thing about Tebow. the reason Tebow was intriguing as a QB project is that he is big enough to run it when he needs to. that forces the D to adjust. so its our OC's job to gameplan against that defense to take advantage of the adjustments they have to make to contain Tebow. our OC has not done that. do you agree? because if you do, they you are seeing the main part of my issue with this coaching staff. an NFL game is like a chess match. you make a move. the other team counters. then you counter. etc. when Tebow can throw reasonably well and with confidence, the running part of his game will make that chess match much easier for us to win. but i know we're a year or two away from that. he needs experience and coaching and time, just like all young QBs. that's why i defend him against the "foaming at the mouth" fans who proclaim him the worst ever and want him waived. i'm seeing the bigger picture. so i know he was awful today compared to what we're used to seeing, but he won't always be. until the last couple of weeks, i thought these games were giving him some of the experience he needs to get better. the past 2 weeks, i think he's getting worse. it's up to the coaching staff to remedy that problem. but we still can't get Elway or Fox to give anything other than lukewarm praise to tebow when we win, so it's not wonder he's afraid to make any mistakes.

Broncos4tw
01-01-2012, 04:50 PM
He's never lit it up because that wasn't in the gameplan. Yes they figured him out, but it's up to the coaching staff to start trusting him when he did come thru for them by winning games. His fire is gone, it's obvious the way he's being coached is not the way to bring out the best in him. We are still trying to do the same things as when he first started playing. Everyone has adjusted but the coaching staff and Tebow is doing his part by trying to play like they want him too..

Tebow stats: 6 of 22. Average of 2.7 yards. 20.6 rating.

He threw the ball 22 times, and that was the best he could muster. Stop blaming everyone but our QB for his passing woes. Fire to win? Sure. Winning attitude? Yup. FB in a QBs body, not afraid to run over players? Yup. Passing ability? Pretty crappy at the moment. I guess you'd be happier if they let him throw twice as much, so he would have been 12 for 44?

When your running game is producing a lot more yards per carry than your passing game, that's what you stick with.

Gort
01-01-2012, 04:51 PM
No, I don't agree. Yes, he is a conservative, run first, defense all-important sort of coach, he in Tebow's case, he is doing what he has to do, to try to win games. The proof is in the pudding my friend. Just look at Tebow's passing #s not just today, but throughout the year. He by and far, and when it matters (3rd down), has been terrible.

The feeble of excuse of "Tebow is failing because he is nervous and gun shy because they don't let him throw enough" is pathetic. He is supposed to be one of the top 32 people in the entire nation who can play QB than any other. At this level, you don't get a "comfort" zone. For the multi-millions you are paid, you are expected to deliver. Comfort is not an excuse. When an opportunity presets itself to prove you can do it, you do it. You don't throw 7 yards off from your receivers. You don't miss wide open receivers and flounder around for a loss, taking a sack and out of FG range.

look at Tebow's 3 starts in 2010. he passed just fine under different coaches as a true rookie.

also, by you logic, no rookie QB would ever be successful enough to get to play a 2nd year in this league.

Cito Pelon
01-01-2012, 04:51 PM
Done with fox done with mccoy, elway you better accomplish something useful this off season or we can look forward to another wasted season.

Yeah, it's kinda funny (in an unamusing kind of way) that the team is in the playoffs, but McCoy will probably be handed a pink slip.

broncobum6162
01-01-2012, 04:52 PM
No, I don't agree. Yes, he is a conservative, run first, defense all-important sort of coach, he in Tebow's case, he is doing what he has to do, to try to win games. The proof is in the pudding my friend. Just look at Tebow's passing #s not just today, but throughout the year. He by and far, and when it matters (3rd down), has been terrible.

The feeble of excuse of "Tebow is failing because he is nervous and gun shy because they don't let him throw enough" is pathetic. He is supposed to be one of the top 32 people in the entire nation who can play QB than any other. At this level, you don't get a "comfort" zone. For the multi-millions you are paid, you are expected to deliver. Comfort is not an excuse. When an opportunity presets itself to prove you can do it, you do it. You don't throw 7 yards off from your receivers. You don't miss wide open receivers and flounder around for a loss, taking a sack and out of FG range.


It's called rhythm. You don't run continuously for 10 downs, get in a 3rd and long situation and expect a young QB to consistently convert for 8 plus yard w/ the defense keying on an obvious pass play. Throw in a few quick slants, 2-3 step quick outs our screens to build up confidence and get him and the WR's in synch. Every time he's asked to pass its a long devloping deep drop that takes way to much time. Yes, he has to improve on his reads, but that happens w/ confidence and timing.

broncobum6162
01-01-2012, 04:55 PM
didn't Eli get his face ripped off last year? i don't recall anyone using that as evidence that Eli was paying too great a physical price.

here's the thing about Tebow. the reason Tebow was intriguing as a QB project is that he is big enough to run it when he needs to. that forces the D to adjust. so its our OC's job to gameplan against that defense to take advantage of the adjustments they have to make to contain Tebow. our OC has not done that. do you agree? because if you do, they you are seeing the main part of my issue with this coaching staff. an NFL game is like a chess match. you make a move. the other team counters. then you counter. etc. when Tebow can throw reasonably well and with confidence, the running part of his game will make that chess match much easier for us to win. but i know we're a year or two away from that. he needs experience and coaching and time, just like all young QBs. that's why i defend him against the "foaming at the mouth" fans who proclaim him the worst ever and want him waived. i'm seeing the bigger picture. so i know he was awful today compared to what we're used to seeing, but he won't always be. until the last couple of weeks, i thought these games were giving him some of the experience he needs to get better. the past 2 weeks, i think he's getting worse. it's up to the coaching staff to remedy that problem. but we still can't get Elway or Fox to give anything other than lukewarm praise to tebow when we win, so it's not wonder he's afraid to make any mistakes.

I've been screaming at the TV since game 2 of Tebow Time. Are you sure you ain't my Brotha from a different Motha?

Broncos4tw
01-01-2012, 04:55 PM
here's the thing about Tebow. the reason Tebow was intriguing as a QB project is that he is big enough to run it when he needs to.

Name 3 NFL teams that won the SB with a QB that had a run-first mentality. Wait.. name one.

Running QBs don't do well in this league. It's not college. It's high speed, huge guys smacking you in the face, professional football. How are the predominantly passing QBs doing? Rogers? Brees? Pretty boy Brady? Clinched.. clinched.. bye. Favorites for the SB.

This is a passing league for a reason. It works. Running QBs don't win SBs, also for a good reason. Fun to watch sometimes. Exciting finishes. But hardly power football.

While everyone is so focused on our amazing streak, they failed to notice we won most by the skin our teeth, with a good dose of luck on the side.

Gort
01-01-2012, 04:57 PM
It's called rhythm. You don't run continuously for 10 downs, get in a 3rd and long situation and expect a young QB to consistently convert for 8 plus yard w/ the defense keying on an obvious pass play. Throw in a few quick slants, 2-3 step quick outs our screens to build up confidence and get him and the WR's in synch. Every time he's asked to pass its a long devloping deep drop that takes way to much time. Yes, he has to improve on his reads, but that happens w/ confidence and timing.

they're also playing man-to-man coverage to make it harder for Tebow to complete passes. this is part of the blueprint to beating the Broncos that's been established the past 3 weeks. young QBs who are told NOT to turn the ball over are never going to feel comfortable throwing into man coverage, so it's no wonder he's hesitating and locking onto his receivers. i wish he had command of the game the way Manning or Brady or Brees do, but it takes a few years of experience to get there. i don't understand why so many people simply fail to grasp this crucial point. he's a young QB making the same mistakes young QBs have made in this league for decades.

Br0nc0Buster
01-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Really? Matt Willis had an obvious reception late in the game that he outright dropped. Dante Rosario had a key reception over the middle he dropped. Thomas dropped a couple passes. Eddie Royal is such a mess at WR he doesn't even get to a point where he can then drop the ball, getting crushed repeatedly by press coverage and running the wrong routes (as was obvious early in the game when he kept heading down the field on what was obviously supposed to be a curl).

Tebow does make some bad throws and misses a some open guys. But his receivers have consistently cost him several key completions a game.



Willis's drop was at the end when the game was pretty much already decided, although he still should of caught it the defender got a hand in there.

point is the receivers are not the reason for our awful passing offense, Tebow doesnt read the defense and go through progressions.
Nor does he seem to throw it unless the guy has 10 yards of separation

Receivers have had their share of mistakes, but calling what Tebow did today as "making some bad throws and missing some opens guys" is prolly the biggest understatement of the year

I to want to see him with a full offseason under his belt as well, I am not calling for the team to cut him or anything

but some of his misses are simply inexcusable for an NFL quarterback; the guy is much further behind as a player than Willis, Decker, Thomas, are

Broncos4tw
01-01-2012, 04:58 PM
It's called rhythm. You don't run continuously for 10 downs, get in a 3rd and long situation and expect a young QB to consistently convert for 8 plus yard w/ the defense keying on an obvious pass play. Throw in a few quick slants, 2-3 step quick outs our screens to build up confidence and get him and the WR's in synch. Every time he's asked to pass its a long devloping deep drop that takes way to much time. Yes, he has to improve on his reads, but that happens w/ confidence and timing.

That's another excuse. Rhythm is not formed on the field on game day. It's formed from the thousands of passes done in practice. And he had short passes available, but he didn't release it.

I am not saying with an offseason under Elway won't help him, but he needs a lot of work. He is lacking a lot, and I mean a LOT of passing skills and mechanics that many draft picks have the day they enter the league. Keep in mind Tebow was a third round prospect for a reason, even after winning two championships. He only went in the first round because McDaniels thought he knew more than anyone else on the team.

gyldenlove
01-01-2012, 04:58 PM
It's called rhythm. You don't run continuously for 10 downs, get in a 3rd and long situation and expect a young QB to consistently convert for 8 plus yard w/ the defense keying on an obvious pass play. Throw in a few quick slants, 2-3 step quick outs our screens to build up confidence and get him and the WR's in synch. Every time he's asked to pass its a long devloping deep drop that takes way to much time. Yes, he has to improve on his reads, but that happens w/ confidence and timing.

In the 1st half (while we were still throwing) he several times had open guys and time to throw but either elected not to throw or attempted to dump it off. You can not give a QB confidence when he doesn't take 1 on 1 passes, in the NFL you are open if you are single covered.

Not until the last 3 minutes of the game did he start throwing those 1 on 1 passes, I counted 5 times he had time to go down field with an open guy and either locked onto a target that was covered or just didn't throw the ball to one of his guys.

Cito Pelon
01-01-2012, 05:00 PM
No doubt.

It was bad.

IMO, Quinn wins this game.

Ah, Quinn might have thrown four picks as tight as the coverage was. He might have made some passing plays that Tebow did not, though. Tebow did have some horrible throws and non-throws.

Cito Pelon
01-01-2012, 05:02 PM
Very similar teams and situations. Agreed.

Only saving grace is at least they won more games than last year and improved. Just need a QB, safety, MLB, more DL. Another OT or 2 and we are good. So yeah we are close! :~ohyah!:

Stud safety and MLB for sure.

Gort
01-01-2012, 05:04 PM
Name 3 NFL teams that won the SB with a QB that had a run-first mentality. Wait.. name one.

Running QBs don't do well in this league. It's not college. It's high speed, huge guys smacking you in the face, professional football. How are the predominantly passing QBs doing? Rogers? Brees? Pretty boy Brady? Clinched.. clinched.. bye. Favorites for the SB.

This is a passing league for a reason. It works. Running QBs don't win SBs, also for a good reason. Fun to watch sometimes. Exciting finishes. But hardly power football.

While everyone is so focused on our amazing streak, they failed to notice we won most by the skin our teeth, with a good dose of luck on the side.

who cares. you just moved the goalposts to a ridiculous distance. now he has to be ready to win a superbowl? after 14 NFL starts?? or he's terrible. gimme break. i got news for you... we aren't drafting a top QB next year unless we mortgage our future to do it. think Herschel Walker DAL/MIN or Ricky Williams NO type of packages. how did those turn out for MIN and NO?

we were 4-12 last year. i predicted 6 wins this year. we got 8. but we were 8-5 and lost 3 straight, so i don't think this is a successful season, playoffs or not. we **** the bed again. there are lots of problems on this team. lots of them. you are fixated on QB. we had another QB to start the year and he sucked. even though he was the type of QB you want. so do you want to ignore every other problem and try to fix the "QB problem" this next draft, or do you want to get a DL and an OL and a RB and fill a couple more holes? the choice is yours. accept Tebow for what he is and see if a whole offseason as the starter will yield a dramatic improvement in 2012, or blow everything up now and end up with a rookie QB who is going to make all the same mistakes for the next 2 years that we saw with QBOTF Cutler? i'll choose the former and then re-evaluate after 2012.

Drek
01-01-2012, 05:08 PM
Willis's drop was at the end when the game was pretty much already decided, although he still should of caught it the defender got a hand in there.

point is the receivers are not the reason for our awful passing offense, Tebow doesnt read the defense and go through progressions.
Nor does he seem to throw it unless the guy has 10 yards of separation

Receivers have had their share of mistakes, but calling what Tebow did today as "making some bad throws and missing some opens guys" is prolly the biggest understatement of the year

I to want to see him with a full offseason under his belt as well, I am not calling for the team to cut him or anything

but some of his misses are simply inexcusable for an NFL quarterback; the guy is much further behind as a player than Willis, Decker, Thomas, are

Willis' drop was on the final drive that Fox had game planned to get us, along the sideline where he would have instantly stopped the clock. How was that not a big drop? The DB had nothing to do with that play either. He was facing the opposite direction and if anything barely grazed the ball. Willis needs to catch those passes.

And "making some bad throws and missing some open guys" is exactly what happened. No understatement. Tebow wasn't out there killing kittens or something. He wasn't even all that erratic throwing the football today, only one or two passes off the mark. He just missed some key open windows and other than that was forced to push the ball into very tight coverage. He had a bad game mentally against a good secondary. It happens to young players. Hell, it happened to Aaron Rodgers against this same secondary just two weeks ago.

Rolandftw
01-01-2012, 05:12 PM
Provided Denver doesn't pull off a playoff upset, think Elway will draft a QB to compete with Tebow or they will sign someone like Flynn to do the same. Doesn't have to be one of the top two QB's. Can take one in the 2nd round, as well.

Br0nc0Buster
01-01-2012, 05:17 PM
Willis' drop was on the final drive that Fox had game planned to get us, along the sideline where he would have instantly stopped the clock. How was that not a big drop? The DB had nothing to do with that play either. He was facing the opposite direction and if anything barely grazed the ball. Willis needs to catch those passes.

And "making some bad throws and missing some open guys" is exactly what happened. No understatement. Tebow wasn't out there killing kittens or something. He wasn't even all that erratic throwing the football today, only one or two passes off the mark. He just missed some key open windows and other than that was forced to push the ball into very tight coverage. He had a bad game mentally against a good secondary. It happens to young players. Hell, it happened to Aaron Rodgers against this same secondary just two weeks ago.

There was hardly any time left on the clock, it would of taken a hail marry into the endzone to score. That play did not change the outcome of the game.
Tebow keeps running out of the pocket, he keeps tucking the ball instead of throwing it. He wants to run around and wait for someone to get open instead of sitting in the pocket and reading the defense

His accuracy issues alone are bad enough, but then mix in the fact he has no pocket awareness and he is playing at a level of someone who is new to the position.

If this was an isolated incident no one would care, it isnt
He isnt Aaron Rodgers having a bad day, he is a bad qb having yet another bad day

Cito Pelon
01-01-2012, 05:18 PM
now that's not fair, I wrote you a very special birthday thread. ;D

My fault, that was a nice gift!

Cito Pelon
01-01-2012, 05:37 PM
The thing is, he has never lit it up. Just when was he playing with this confidence? Teams have figured us out and Tebow wont make the throws that are there. He just doesnt see the WR's coming open, and that is worrisome.

Well, he DID see the guys getting open at times, but made inaccurate throws. There really wasn't a lot of guys getting open, though. The few times guys were open he didn't get the ball to them accurately. Bad game by Tebow not connecting on the few times guys were open, but really, there has been little separation by the WR's.

I don't blame anybody for bagging on Tebow, but he only had something like 3 guys open all day. And they weren't all open on the same play. And Matt Willis really should have caught that pass on the final drive. He knew he should have caught it.

I'm not trying to excuse Tebow, like said above he killed the potential scoring drives all by himself with the fumble and the sack.

Boltjolt
01-01-2012, 05:41 PM
Provided Denver doesn't pull off a playoff upset, think Elway will draft a QB to compete with Tebow or they will sign someone like Flynn to do the same. Doesn't have to be one of the top two QB's. Can take one in the 2nd round, as well.
Anyone who can throw will be good compitition. Hell go 7th round, thats where Flynn was drafted.
Go get Matt Moore or Henny from Miami. One has to go.

On 2nd thought....keep Tebow. That works best for us :P

DarkHorse
01-01-2012, 05:44 PM
Adam Weber

WolfpackGuy
01-01-2012, 05:48 PM
The receivers can not get open on their own unless it's by some trickeration.

And Willis, you gotta come down with that one ball.

Rolandftw
01-01-2012, 06:35 PM
The receivers can not get open on their own unless it's by some trickeration.


Don't buy that at all. Didn't pass very much, but based on how Tebow looked when we did I could see why. Both Decker and Thomas were getting open. Maybe not every play, but there were chances and we missed them.

And give KC's corners credit. Played a great game today.

Jetmeck
01-01-2012, 06:38 PM
Don't buy that at all. Didn't pass very much, but based on how Tebow looked when we did I could see why. Both Decker and Thomas were getting open. Maybe not every play, but there were chances and we missed them.

And give KC's corners credit. Played a great game today.

Well maybe with Tom Freakin Brady. How many of those guys are around ? yeah

Rolandftw
01-01-2012, 06:41 PM
Anyone who can throw will be good compitition. Hell go 7th round, thats where Flynn was drafted.
Go get Matt Moore or Henny from Miami. One has to go.

On 2nd thought....keep Tebow. That works best for us :P

Hah. Need more then a developmental QB. Obviously GB made a good pick with Flynn, but I'm guessing he wasn't as ready to contribute as a rookie as he is now.

Whoever we bring in, needs to be ready to contribute right away. Broncos can't assume that Tebow is going to improve because I haven't seen much of that

Rolandftw
01-01-2012, 06:50 PM
Well maybe with Tom Freakin Brady. How many of those guys are around ? yeah

It wouldn't have took Tom freaking Brady for us to get more then we got. I'll concede, we don't have the best receivers in the NFL but they're not the main reason why our offense is so bad right now.

It's a combination of very predictable play calling, and Tebow's performance mainly.

Jetmeck
01-01-2012, 06:59 PM
It wouldn't have took Tom freaking Brady for us to get more then we got. I'll concede, we don't have the best receivers in the NFL but they're not the main reason why our offense is so bad right now.

It's a combination of very predictable play calling, and Tebow's performance mainly.

ANY TE, WRs that can't get separation would help any QB ??????

WakeUpCall
01-02-2012, 06:23 PM
Congratulations on making the playoffs. I see you all are as pissed with you team and leaders as we are with ours. Anyway, good luck in the playoffs, you won the division..

Cheer up, you could have our problems!

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 06:25 PM
who are you

WakeUpCall
01-02-2012, 06:33 PM
who are you

I used to come here to talk smack, then my teams owner made sure we'll never have any reason to talk smack. He hates KC worse that you folks, and spends less on our team than you folks. Your owner is better than ours. After that, we're both competitive at the futile level!! Your good news is that your owner will fix it, ours will screw hookers in Fiji with unused cap money...

Bronx33
01-02-2012, 06:35 PM
I used to come here to talk smack, then my teams owner made sure we'll never have any reason to talk smack. He hates KC worse that you folks, and spends less on our team than you folks. Your owner is better than ours. After that, we're both competitive at the futile level!! Your good news is that your owner will fix it, ours will screw hookers in Fiji with unused cap money...

You got something against screwing hookers in fiji?

WakeUpCall
01-02-2012, 06:44 PM
You got something against screwing hookers in fiji?

Cum to think of it no... But I do when my owner is doing that and not spending coin to go to a SB after 42 F'n years.... At least bring some in for us to enjoy!

Tombstone RJ
01-02-2012, 07:01 PM
Adam Weber

let him fight it out with TT in training camp. If Tebow is better than he gets the job, if AW is better then play him.

If the Broncos bring in a QB it might as well be an old vet like Delhomme. They might as well draft a QB in the middle to late rounds just for schitz and giggles.

Tebow
Weber
Vet
Rookie

Teams can keep 3 QBs on the roster.

go_broncos
01-02-2012, 07:10 PM
yeeeeeeees!..we are in playoffs