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epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2011, 01:49 AM
If this team makes the playoffs, it will be a minor miracle.

There are so many young players in so many critical positions making so many critical mistakes that its hard to even get a good handle on what this team is about.

Not to mention that the veterans hired over the past couple of years who have been counted on to develop have not turned into anything but marginal starters and liabilities in most cases.

Here are the positions locked up with decent starters for 2012:

DE - Dumervil
OLB - Miller
DT - Bunkley
CB - Champ
OLB - Williams
QB - Tebow
WR - Thomas
G - Kuper
T - Clady
T - Franklin
RB - McGahee (rotational player)

Borderline:
C - Walton
WR - Decker
CB - Harris (free safety?)
SS - Dawkins (retires?)

Now...there are only a few players on that list who are lock-down positional starters...guys who would start on other clubs. But as for talent, this team is much more talent-bereft than we have realized.

To compete next year the Broncos need 1) to use all of their draft picks (or gain more) and to hit a few of them out of the park, and 2) a major infusion of free agent talent.

From above, 1 is a gamble and 2 is uncertain given that the team has been unwilling to spend money on free agents. Good news for Broncos fans is that they will have to at least spend some...Broncos will have to meet a minimum cap expenditure next year I believe.

But man, looking at this team...there are holes everywhere. The defense is especially barren. At all three levels of the defense there are multiple sub-par players, and the best player on the DL (Dumervil) is rather one-dimensional.

Doggcow
12-26-2011, 01:54 AM
Lol I read this title and thought Tebow quoted Ezekiel 23: 19-20

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2011, 01:58 AM
Lol I read this title and thought Tebow quoted Ezekiel 23: 19-20

No, thank goodness I was talking Broncos football.

ward63
12-26-2011, 03:14 AM
I feel that being in the mid-late to late part of the first round, that it is a place where you look to move back and gain picks. When you're a top 5 or 10 pick anymore, I wouldn't trade back, but 20+, that's a good place.

KO5K
12-26-2011, 03:15 AM
This years draft class is seriously overrated, building a team through the draft will be difficult for us.

They hit on two players ROFL!.

eddie mac
12-26-2011, 04:27 AM
Anything from this year's draft class is a bonus given the time they had to prepare for the season with a brand new coaching staff.

Rome wasn't built in a day and for Fox to (at least) double the win total for this franchise in one year (with little or no offseason) working with the ultimate raw QB is quite an achievement. If we make the playoffs (and we should) I consider that a tremendous job by the coaching staff and players on this team.

They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. No-one expected them to even challenge for the divisional title this year, let alone win it and with one game to go they are in pole position.

Off course there's been some downside to the season with big losses to Green Bay, Detroit, New England and Buffalo but for the majority this season has been one of the most exciting ones for a long time for me.

Agamemnon
12-26-2011, 04:50 AM
I wouldn't classify Tebow as a "decent starter" so much as a guy that doesn't need to be replaced until he's given a couple seasons (with full off-seasons included) to develop.

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2011, 07:43 AM
Anything from this year's draft class is a bonus given the time they had to prepare for the season with a brand new coaching staff.

Rome wasn't built in a day and for Fox to (at least) double the win total for this franchise in one year (with little or no offseason) working with the ultimate raw QB is quite an achievement. If we make the playoffs (and we should) I consider that a tremendous job by the coaching staff and players on this team.

They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. No-one expected them to even challenge for the divisional title this year, let alone win it and with one game to go they are in pole position.

Off course there's been some downside to the season with big losses to Green Bay, Detroit, New England and Buffalo but for the majority this season has been one of the most exciting ones for a long time for me.I was pretty ticked off about the Buffalo game. Thanks for putting things in perspective. One good thing Aldo is that.hopefully we can continue to build on the success. Unlike the chiefs who had a divided Locke room

Broncos_OTM
12-26-2011, 07:48 AM
I would like to see the staff bring in a OT and a veteran c thoroughly free agency.move Franklin to LG get a veteran CB and DT. roll BPA trough the draft.

McDman
12-26-2011, 08:02 AM
I wouldn't say Franklin has the tackle position locked up. I hope we move him to guard.

Goobzilla
12-26-2011, 08:17 AM
"What is the prospective title of Tim Tebow's Honeymoon tape?"

Vine
12-26-2011, 08:20 AM
If this team makes the playoffs, it will be a minor miracle.

There are so many young players in so many critical positions making so many critical mistakes that its hard to even get a good handle on what this team is about.

Not to mention that the veterans hired over the past couple of years who have been counted on to develop have not turned into anything but marginal starters and liabilities in most cases.

Here are the positions locked up with decent starters for 2012:

DE - Dumervil
OLB - Miller
DT - Bunkley
CB - Champ
OLB - Williams
QB - Tebow
WR - Thomas
G - Kuper
T - Clady
T - Franklin
RB - McGahee (rotational player)

Borderline:
C - Walton
WR - Decker
CB - Harris (free safety?)
SS - Dawkins (retires?)



Interesting thread. So the Broncos have arguably 11-15 players who are entrenched starters, and would start for other NFL teams.

I wonder what an independent study of every NFL team to determine entrenched starters who would start on other NFL teams would compare to the Broncos.

barryr
12-26-2011, 08:22 AM
No question the Broncos need an upgrade at LG, TE, another RB and WR, more depth on the OL, backup help at QB, DT, DE, MLB, CB, and maybe saftey if Moore and Carter can't cut it. That is a lot of needs and shows how poorly this team has been drafting the last decade.

Natedog24
12-26-2011, 08:59 AM
Rahim Moore looking like a complete bust really hurts, I had high hopes. We really stink at drafting safeties...

Turd_Ferguson
12-26-2011, 09:10 AM
So Thomas and Tebow are entrenched and Decker is borderline? This is retarded. You have apparently already written off Moore and Carter, after their rookie season, but Tebow after two years and 14 points scored for the opponent in his last game is a locked up decent starter. Three weeks ago DT was a bum making Tebow look bad, and now you have him on the locked up position.

ScottXray
12-26-2011, 09:26 AM
I think that this thread at least shows one thing.
We have holes everywhere and the talent cupboard is
still pretty bare. Not completely empty, but we are eating Ramen...not steak.

It has been a surprising season and the team has really overachieved
with Tebow in . Call it luck or not , but QB is at least not the weakest link.

Without weapons to use it doesn't matter who the QB is, so we still have a long way to go to be consistantly in the games against better teams. If we still make the playoffs( hopefully Yes), we will probably be one and done, although at least any playoff game will be at home, and the teams we'll likely face have not been that good on the road.
We are taking small steps, but at least going the right direction

cmhargrove
12-26-2011, 09:27 AM
Rahim Moore looking like a complete bust really hurts, I had high hopes. We really stink at drafting safeties...

I honestly believe that Moore has the skill, but no brains for the job (right now). He played well early on, but his mid season benching seems to have effected his play drastically. Kid just doesn't think well, doesn't see the plays developing, doesn't tackle well right now. However, I think you could say the same about Carter. He needs to do nothing but practice proper tackling technique all offseason and he could be a keeper.

Give Moore another year, because the physical skill set is there, but his brains are obviously absent.

RMT
12-26-2011, 09:51 AM
Rahim Moore looking like a complete bust really hurts, I had high hopes. We really stink at drafting safeties...

we were really spoiled having Atwater & D. Smith all those years - but, yeah, we've really struck out at the safety position in the draft.

DenverBroncosJM
12-26-2011, 10:42 AM
Jeff Saturday is a free agent this year. So is Mathis I think we should go after Jeff!

ward63
12-26-2011, 12:42 PM
Jeff Saturday is a free agent this year. So is Mathis I think we should go after Jeff!

Walton is getting better and you want to sign a guy that is about to retire? Makes perfect sense to me

epicSocialism4tw
12-26-2011, 03:05 PM
Denver should focus on three guys in free agency: Ray Rice, Tracy Porter, and Mario Willams.

Snagging those three players significantly upgrades the talent across the board because it addresses three major issues with this team. The Broncos need an every-down DE. Mario Williams is that guy. They also need a bell cow back who can also catch out of the backfield. Ray Rice is that guy. You sign Porter and release Goodman.

Then you spend what else you can on a safety and another WR.

DBroncos4life
12-26-2011, 03:20 PM
Denver should focus on three guys in free agency: Ray Rice, Tracy Porter, and Mario Willams.

Snagging those three players significantly upgrades the talent across the board because it addresses three major issues with this team. The Broncos need an every-down DE. Mario Williams is that guy. They also need a bell cow back who can also catch out of the backfield. Ray Rice is that guy. You sign Porter and release Goodman.

Then you spend what else you can on a safety and another WR.

Rice isn't going anywhere. Porter should be someone that we target right out of the gate. Bush and Lynch would be awesome targets at RB. Like Rice I doubt Lynch is going anywhere. Also Like I said in the draft thread, get a young RB in the draft with low miles on him. RB's have a much faster impact then most positions.

If we want to move Franklin to G then I think we should go after Pears again. I think he could come cheap and be a better RT for us.

As for DE I would rather let everyone focus on Mathis and Williams and have us swoop in and grab Calais Campbell from the Cards. He is very consistent and is even from Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
12-26-2011, 09:52 PM
If this team makes the playoffs, it will be a minor miracle.

There are so many young players in so many critical positions making so many critical mistakes that its hard to even get a good handle on what this team is about.

Not to mention that the veterans hired over the past couple of years who have been counted on to develop have not turned into anything but marginal starters and liabilities in most cases.

Here are the positions locked up with decent starters for 2012:

DE - Dumervil
OLB - Miller
DT - Bunkley
CB - Champ
OLB - Williams
QB - Tebow
WR - Thomas
G - Kuper
T - Clady
T - Franklin
RB - McGahee (rotational player)

Borderline:
C - Walton
WR - Decker
CB - Harris (free safety?)
SS - Dawkins (retires?)

Now...there are only a few players on that list who are lock-down positional starters...guys who would start on other clubs. But as for talent, this team is much more talent-bereft than we have realized.

To compete next year the Broncos need 1) to use all of their draft picks (or gain more) and to hit a few of them out of the park, and 2) a major infusion of free agent talent.

From above, 1 is a gamble and 2 is uncertain given that the team has been unwilling to spend money on free agents. Good news for Broncos fans is that they will have to at least spend some...Broncos will have to meet a minimum cap expenditure next year I believe.

But man, looking at this team...there are holes everywhere. The defense is especially barren. At all three levels of the defense there are multiple sub-par players, and the best player on the DL (Dumervil) is rather one-dimensional.

is Bunkley a sure thing? i thought he was a FA next season. so he isn't a slotted in starter yet. Marcus Thomas is one who could be borderline if he were signed beyond this season.

Decker is a solid receiver and should be on the starting unit for the next several seasons. It amazes me that Chris Harris has not taken Goodman's job this season.

i wouldn't guarantee that DJ is back next season. i seem to remember a period of about a week when camp just began where he was held out for no reason. i think trade talks were happening and the team did not want to injure a commodity. would not surprise me to see him traded

BroncoMan4ever
12-26-2011, 09:55 PM
Walton is getting better and you want to sign a guy that is about to retire? Makes perfect sense to me

makes perfect sense. Saturday is a damn good C, and it would be nice to bring in competition. if Walton wins the job we get an awesome backup and another veteran leader for the line. If Saturday takes the job Walton learns behind a very good C for a year and returns to the starting lineup.

competition is not a bad thing and neither Beadles or Walton in either of their 2 seasons have had any competition for their jobs.

Ratboy
12-26-2011, 10:05 PM
I wonder if WR/TE Free Agents would be hesitant to sign with the Broncos knowing Tim Tebow will be the QB.

epicSocialism4tw
12-27-2011, 01:27 AM
I wonder if WR/TE Free Agents would be hesitant to sign with the Broncos knowing Tim Tebow will be the QB.

I wonder if free agents would be interested in money?

Doggcow
12-27-2011, 03:20 AM
God damnit. I totally expected my comment to get more run. Does no one know what that verse actually says?

epicSocialism4tw
12-27-2011, 03:40 AM
God damnit. I totally expected my comment to get more run. Does no one know what that verse actually says?

Take it to the religion forum and ask over there. This is a football thread.

Good luck in that forum.

BroncoInferno
12-27-2011, 04:09 AM
I wonder if WR/TE Free Agents would be hesitant to sign with the Broncos knowing Tim Tebow will be the QB.

Last offseason, Sidney Rice and Zach Miller signed with the Seahawks, a team they knew was going to be starting either Tavoris Jackson or Charlie Whitehurst. If you pay them, they will come.

http://www.nickmongo.com/breakfastfordinner/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/field-of-dreams-scene.jpg

Blueflame
12-27-2011, 04:27 AM
"I read the news today oh boy
Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall"

Poseidon
12-27-2011, 04:36 AM
Is Mike Adams approved in this forum?
How about:

1. Mike Adams
2. Chris Polk or Best CB available
3. Best DT/CB (for backup) or LaMichael James
4. and further down - Backup QB and depth in other positions

FA:
Tracy Porter, Stud DT, Proven WR/TE and safety?

dsmoot
12-27-2011, 04:49 AM
I honestly believe that Moore has the skill, but no brains for the job (right now). He played well early on, but his mid season benching seems to have effected his play drastically. Kid just doesn't think well, doesn't see the plays developing, doesn't tackle well right now. However, I think you could say the same about Carter. He needs to do nothing but practice proper tackling technique all offseason and he could be a keeper.

Give Moore another year, because the physical skill set is there, but his brains are obviously absent.

At this point in a young mans football career, tackling is a fundamental skill. Moore looks poor at best, whiffing way too much. Play recognition is one skill that can be schooled. A reluctance to engage and wrapup is something different. If his only problem was leading with his helmet and drawing personal fouls then I would not worry . I am seriously disappointed in his tackling especially when he is not in man to man coverage. I will see next year but I have serious doubts.

As for the lead in to this thread, We still have many holes to fill. I watch Scheffler in Detriot and really miss a real pass catching TE. The loss of a 38 yr old safety has exposed a real hole. Bruton has maxed out. Maybe a good Special teams guy but really good teams push more mature players off the roster when they can't compete for a starting spot after 3 yrs or so. The defense has really dropped of with CONSISTENT LB play the last few weeks. A hand injury to Miller has affected the overall teams pass rush especially at Buffalo when we needed it the most.

Champ is great but two 30 somethings at a speed position like CB is really disturbing and no one was really pushing for those jobs before preseason injuries hit.

I think we are still two seasons away from plugging enough of these holes to become a legitimate playoff team from a really strong division. As others have said another upgrade on the OL, multiple upgrades on DL are needed. I have enjoyed watching the play of Bunkley and Thomas on DL.

Don't be fooled by the possibility of being in the playoffs this year because the AFC West is really lacking. Patience, patience, patience.

Broncos_OTM
12-27-2011, 05:09 AM
Denver should focus on three guys in free agency: Ray Rice, Tracy Porter, and Mario Willams.

Snagging those three players significantly upgrades the talent across the board because it addresses three major issues with this team. The Broncos need an every-down DE. Mario Williams is that guy. They also need a bell cow back who can also catch out of the backfield. Ray Rice is that guy. You sign Porter and release Goodman.

Then you spend what else you can on a safety and another WR.

Mario Williams will be franchised, at the very atleast to tag and trade. C Campbell. another guy to be signed and traded would be a better idea IMO. he can play interior or move out to the edge. We have the Edge presence with Doom and Von. So i think we need a interior guy that can get pressure up the middle.

Not to mention Wed have to break the bank for Williams. I just think interior would be a better way to go.

Ray Rice is another guy i would expect to be franchised. Id love to see him added, But i feel Williams and Rice are pipe dreams. Teams just do not allow talent like that go.

I'd think Porter is more likely hes a scheme fit and has worked with dennis allen in NO.

If we can Re-sign Bunkley Get thomas back healthy. I think we are set on the nose. Marcus thomas could be re-signed and could be a starter depending on what we do at 3 tech.

In the draft as far as penetrators this class has me underwhelmed with guys who in a normal year at the position would be 2-4 rounders.

Broncos_OTM
12-27-2011, 05:10 AM
Rice isn't going anywhere. Porter should be someone that we target right out of the gate. Bush and Lynch would be awesome targets at RB. Like Rice I doubt Lynch is going anywhere. Also Like I said in the draft thread, get a young RB in the draft with low miles on him. RB's have a much faster impact then most positions.

If we want to move Franklin to G then I think we should go after Pears again. I think he could come cheap and be a better RT for us.

As for DE I would rather let everyone focus on Mathis and Williams and have us swoop in and grab Calais Campbell from the Cards. He is very consistent and is even from Denver.

I think the other tackle from Buffalo would be a better signing in ball. who can play really well in pass protection and is a road grader.

Broncos_OTM
12-27-2011, 05:13 AM
makes perfect sense. Saturday is a damn good C, and it would be nice to bring in competition. if Walton wins the job we get an awesome backup and another veteran leader for the line. If Saturday takes the job Walton learns behind a very good C for a year and returns to the starting lineup.

competition is not a bad thing and neither Beadles or Walton in either of their 2 seasons have had any competition for their jobs.

If you are looking for a very underrated C this year in free agency who is a power scheme guy... look no further then John Sulivan from Minnesota. PFF has him as a alll pro this year.

TheChamp24
12-27-2011, 07:15 AM
Yeah okay, lets just sign all the best free agents, problem solved. lol

I strongly feel we need to draft a RB rather than sign one to a horrible contract.
I think we should look at getting DE/DT/DB help in free agency and look at the draft for WR/TE/RB.

barryr
12-27-2011, 08:01 AM
Yeah okay, lets just sign all the best free agents, problem solved. lol

I strongly feel we need to draft a RB rather than sign one to a horrible contract.
I think we should look at getting DE/DT/DB help in free agency and look at the draft for WR/TE/RB.

Yep, I agree with all of that, though obviously they will draft some defense and I don't want anymore bandaid type signings for the defense that has gone on too many times.

maher_tyler
12-27-2011, 08:20 AM
We need a TE, DT, MLB, C, LG. I'd say those are our biggest needs. After that we need RB help, vet safety and CB.

DBroncos4life
12-27-2011, 08:21 AM
I think the other tackle from Buffalo would be a better signing in ball. who can play really well in pass protection and is a road grader.

Bell is a LT while Pears is a RT. I think Bell will cost more money and in my other post I was trying to put the money in Porter and Campbell.

DBroncos4life
12-27-2011, 08:36 AM
What are peoples thought on Dan Connor?

TheChamp24
12-27-2011, 08:37 AM
We need a TE, DT, MLB, C, LG. I'd say those are our biggest needs. After that we need RB help, vet safety and CB.

We have a lot of wholes to fill.
I'd honestly say we need RB help as much as anything. Some people don't realize we need weapons/playmakers on offense. Yes, our defense needs help, but my god do we need players on offense that could pose a threat to teams.
We've been missing a MLB for 6 years now. Just look at how much better the defense was with Al Wilson.

Dagmar
12-27-2011, 08:46 AM
What are peoples thought on Dan Connor?

I thought he owned a bike shop? And hung drywall?

DBroncos4life
12-27-2011, 08:53 AM
I thought he owned a bike shop? And hung drywall?

MLB for the Panthers.

TonyR
12-27-2011, 08:56 AM
2012 NFL Free Agent Running Backs
Ray Rice (BAL) -
Matt Forte (CHI) -
Ryan Grant (GB) -
Peyton Hillis (CLE) -
Mike Tolbert (SD) -
BenJarvus Green-Ellis (NE) -
LaDainian Tomlinson (NYJ) -
Cedric Benson (CIN) -
Marshawn Lynch (SEA) -
Arian Foster (HOU) -
Chester Taylor (ARZ)
Jason Snelling (ATL)
Jerome Felton (CAR)
Tashard Choice (DAL)
Spencer Larsen (DEN)
Maurice Morris (DET)
Derrick Ward (HOU)
Thomas Jones (KC)
Le'Ron McClain (KC)
Steve Slaton (MIA)
Lorenzo Booker (MIN)
Michael Bush (OAK)
Rock Cartwright (OAK)
Ronnie Brown (PHI)
Owen Schmitt (PHI)
Mewelde Moore (PIT)
Jacob Hester (SD)
Justin Forsett (SEA)
Moran Norris (SF)
Jerious Norwood (STL)
Cadillac Williams (STL)
Earnest Graham (TB)
Ahmard Hall (TEN)
Tim Hightower (WAS)
LaRod Stephens-Howling (ARZ) - Restricted
Antone Smith (ATL) - Exclusive Rights
Kahlil Bell (CHI) - Restricted
Chris Pressley (CIN) - Restricted
Lance Ball (DEN) - Exclusive Rights
Brock Bolen (JAC) - Restricted
Lex Hilliard (MIA) - Restricted
Isaac Redman (PIT) - Exclusive Rights
Brit Miller (STL) - Restricted
LeGarrette Blount (TB) - Exclusive Rights
Kregg Lumpkin (TB) - Restricted

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/rb.html

peacepipe
12-27-2011, 09:21 AM
I wouldn't classify Tebow as a "decent starter" so much as a guy that doesn't need to be replaced until he's given a couple seasons (with full off-seasons included) to develop.next season will be it, they are not going to commit to him beyond next yr if tebow doesn't look good next yr.

Dagmar
12-27-2011, 09:23 AM
MLB for the Panthers.

I know. It was a Roseanne joke. Lordy :~ohyah!:

elsid13
12-27-2011, 09:32 AM
What are peoples thought on Dan Connor?

hurt a lot.

BroncoBen
12-27-2011, 09:59 AM
Rahim Moore looking like a complete bust really hurts, I had high hopes. We really stink at drafting safeties...

When Moore was drafted, that draft was considered very weak at Saftey... Moore was considered to be best of the bunch. Moore at the time was considered a 'Ball Hawk' with speed.. it was never said he was a good tackler.

Too early to give up on Moore... give him another season or two.

Bacchus
12-27-2011, 11:10 AM
I feel that being in the mid-late to late part of the first round, that it is a place where you look to move back and gain picks. When you're a top 5 or 10 pick anymore, I wouldn't trade back, but 20+, that's a good place.


I agree, it would be best to move back to the late first and then pick up another 2nd or 3rd. The problem is a lot of teams are looking to move back. Late teen picks are usually pretty risky as well. I read somewhere that 2nd round picks have had better production than picks from 17-25. It seems that drafting in that range teams like to reach for a guy, if a player slips that far for injury or offield issues (R. Moss) the team will take a chance on him.

It would be nice to see Denver trade back and get good compesation for it but it is easier said than done.

CEH
12-27-2011, 11:19 AM
When Moore was drafted, that draft was considered very weak at Saftey... Moore was considered to be best of the bunch. Moore at the time was considered a 'Ball Hawk' with speed.. it was never said he was a good tackler.

Too early to give up on Moore... give him another season or two.

Another Moore Will Moore of the ATL wasn't doing squat his first two years and last night looked like a pretty good safety. I hope our Moore can turn it around . We really need him to hit and be a starter for us

bendog
12-27-2011, 11:22 AM
dang, I was hoping for porn.

razorwire77
12-27-2011, 12:11 PM
Honestly, I think this board is too hard on Moore. Not everyone is Ronnie Lott out of the gate. The kid has shown some flashes in terms of closing on the ball and he seems to move well in space. Like many of the youngsters on this team he's been inconsistent and struggled to make the adjustment to the speed of NFL receivers. Like Tebow, like Carter, like Irving, like Demaryius etc. the youngs on this team need a full training camp and another season before we write their obituaries or draft their replacements.

TonyR
12-27-2011, 12:24 PM
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Broncos_OTM
12-27-2011, 01:45 PM
Bell is a LT while Pears is a RT. I think Bell will cost more money and in my other post I was trying to put the money in Porter and Campbell.Bell can play either side and is a good run blocker and a good in pass protection. with Ryan playing LT it would make sense to bring in Bell who would be covering tebows blindside.

ol#7
12-27-2011, 03:28 PM
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Yeah pre-season! Where is that long Chris Brewer run?

cousinal11
12-27-2011, 05:27 PM
Michael Bush, the trenches on both sides of the ball and a veteran safety if Dawk is done.

And please, please draft a fn return specialist.

dsmoot
12-27-2011, 05:37 PM
Honestly, I think this board is too hard on Moore. Not everyone is Ronnie Lott out of the gate. The kid has shown some flashes in terms of closing on the ball and he seems to move well in space. Like many of the youngsters on this team he's been inconsistent and struggled to make the adjustment to the speed of NFL receivers. Like Tebow, like Carter, like Irving, like Demaryius etc. the youngs on this team need a full training camp and another season before we write their obituaries or draft their replacements.

Yes, it is easy to become too critical. We are hurting pretty bad when we are forced to play Moore right now. I am hopeful every draft pick turns it around and becomes a contributor but this position is a big hole especially when we are missing our 38 yr old starting safety. That in itself speaks volumes about the future of the position.

epicSocialism4tw
12-27-2011, 05:41 PM
Michael Bush, the trenches on both sides of the ball and a veteran safety if Dawk is done.

And please, please draft a fn return specialist.

Hillis would be a better choice than Bush, simply because Hillis has the added dimension as a pass catcher.

The next back that Denver gets has to be a threat as a receiver and has to be able to run the ball from the shotgun.

Boomhauer
12-27-2011, 09:00 PM
barryr - "No question the Broncos need an upgrade at LG, TE, another RB and WR, more depth on the OL, backup help at QB, DT, DE, MLB, CB, and maybe saftey if Moore and Carter can't cut it. That is a lot of needs and shows how poorly this team has been drafting the last decade."

Fire Xanders! Seriously, been saying this since McD was canned. Dude's a bum with zero eye for talent. The best way to improve the Broncos roster for next season is to bring guys into camp, through draft and signings, that can play at playoff-levels. Xanders can't do that so the Broncos need to find someone that can.

After that, it's a matter of Fox & friends determining who should be starters and who else makes the roster. Every year better players are assigned to backup positions than those that make starter and guys that standout as real talents are cut while scrubs make the 53-man. Start with a thin field from Xander's incompetence, fail to select the best from that field and we're left with "Holes Aplenty".
-----------------------------------------------------------

To the specifics you mentioned;
OL- Beadles is a backup that regularly gets blown off the line in short yardage and is ineffective blocking at the second level. We would have been better off keeping S.Daniels as the starting LG this year, but hope an improvement can be made during the offseason. Beadles should not start next year unless injury.
The other four are very good starters that can compete with any other line in the league, but the backups Hochstein, Martinez and Hills gots to go. Clark is borderline effective so we could keep him along with Beadles as backups.

TE- I got no problem with the staff we have. Fells has done a very good job and we have an overabundance of young talent developing quickly.

RB- Major problem here as J.Johnson is the only RB on the roster worth keeping.

WR- While Royal is a great receiver, his skills can only be utilized by a highly accurate passer that can hit him out of his breaks. He's a FA I don't expect to return. Decker and Thomas are both big targets with 'adequate' speed that can fight for the ball, but Decker has average hands and Thomas' are apparently covered in pork grease. We have two good, quick receivers with solid hands in Willis and Goodwin that are also returners, but in general WR is another major problem lacking a true #1.

DL- If Bunkley, Thomas and Unrein stick around for next year we'll have a good core, but could still use a young addition. I'd hope to see R.Brown, who stood out this preseason, return and hopefully make the roster.
Dumervil and Hunter are very good starters, but after that we have the below-average backup in Ayers and hopes Beal has developed. R.Brown also looked dominant as a LDE, but we need to bring in some bodies to compete.

MLB- Mays sucks donkey kong. I was all over signing Nick Barnett as soon as GB released him, but that ship sailed. I still think Mohamed would have been a better choice at MLB this year and hope either he or Irving take the spot next year.

DB- I doubt Goodman or Dawkins, who are regular burn units in coverage, are around next year. That leaves Champ and Vaughn on the corners with Harris there or at FS. I still think McCarthy should have started at SS, but either he or Carter should take the spot next year. FS is a problem if Harris doesn't take the spot and Moore keeps crapping the bed.

DBroncos4life
12-27-2011, 09:01 PM
barryr - "No question the Broncos need an upgrade at LG, TE, another RB and WR, more depth on the OL, backup help at QB, DT, DE, MLB, CB, and maybe saftey if Moore and Carter can't cut it. That is a lot of needs and shows how poorly this team has been drafting the last decade."

Fire Xanders! Seriously, been saying this since McD was canned. Dude's a bum with zero eye for talent. The best way to improve the Broncos roster for next season is to bring guys into camp, through draft and signings, that can play at playoff-levels. Xanders can't do that so the Broncos need to find someone that can.

After that, it's a matter of Fox & friends determining who should be starters and who else makes the roster. Every year better players are assigned to backup positions than those that make starter and guys that standout as real talents are cut while scrubs make the 53-man. Start with a thin field from Xander's incompetence, fail to select the best from that field and we're left with "Holes Aplenty".
-----------------------------------------------------------

To the specifics you mentioned;
OL- Beadles is a backup that regularly gets blown off the line in short yardage and is ineffective blocking at the second level. We would have been better off keeping S.Daniels as the starting LG this year, but hope an improvement can be made during the offseason. Beadles should not start next year unless injury.
The other four are very good starters that can compete with any other line in the league, but the backups Hochstein, Martinez and Hills gots to go. Clark is borderline effective so we could keep him along with Beadles as backups.

TE- I got no problem with the staff we have. Fells has done a very good job and we have an overabundance of young talent developing quickly.

RB- Major problem here as J.Johnson is the only RB on the roster worth keeping.
WR- While Royal is a great receiver, his skills can only be utilized by a highly accurate passer that can hit him out of his breaks. He's a FA I don't expect to return. Decker and Thomas are both big targets with 'adequate' speed that can fight for the ball, but Decker has average hands and Thomas' are apparently covered in pork grease. We have two good, quick receivers with solid hands in Willis and Goodwin that are also returners, but in general WR is another major problem lacking a true #1.

DL- If Bunkley, Thomas and Unrein stick around for next year we'll have a good core, but could still use a young addition. I'd hope to see R.Brown, who stood out this preseason, return and hopefully make the roster.
Dumervil and Hunter are very good starters, but after that we have the below-average backup in Ayers and hopes Beal has developed. R.Brown also looked dominant as a LDE, but we need to bring in some bodies to compete.

MLB- Mays sucks donkey kong. I was all over signing Nick Barnett as soon as GB released him, but that ship sailed. I still think Mohamed would have been a better choice at MLB this year and hope either he or Irving take the spot next year.

DB- I doubt Goodman or Dawkins, who are regular burn units in coverage, are around next year. That leaves Champ and Vaughn on the corners with Harris there or at FS. I still think McCarthy should have started at SS, but either he or Carter should take the spot next year. FS is a problem if Harris doesn't take the spot and Moore keeps crapping the bed.

Ha Ha why do you even try!!!!

Boomhauer
12-27-2011, 09:08 PM
DB4L - "Ha Ha why do you even try!!!!"

Re; You got a crush on Xanders?

DBroncos4life
12-27-2011, 09:32 PM
DB4L - "Ha Ha why do you even try!!!!"

Re; You got a crush on Xanders?

I got a problem with a tard saying a PS scrub being our only RB worth a crap. I've seen some of the roster crap you post and it's always a good laugh Hilarious!

Boomhauer
12-27-2011, 09:50 PM
DB4L - "I got a problem with a tard saying a PS scrub being our only RB worth a crap..."

Re; So, you got a crush on Ball with his 4.9-speed and brick hands?

Broncos_OTM
12-27-2011, 09:57 PM
Hillis would be a better choice than Bush, simply because Hillis has the added dimension as a pass catcher.

The next back that Denver gets has to be a threat as a receiver and has to be able to run the ball from the shotgun.I don't know if I would like to see hillis back, although i definitely agree on bush, raiders are not very big on him. hes a big guy but doesn't run like it. hes a three yards and a cloud of dust kinda runner.. Put him in a rotation though and he excels though, not a feature back.

DBroncos4life
12-27-2011, 09:58 PM
DB4L - "I got a problem with a tard saying a PS scrub being our only RB worth a crap..."

Re; So, you got a crush on Ball with his 4.9-speed and brick hands?

Quote button dude learn how to use it. Also keep guessing. Maybe you watched a game you would know.

Broncos_OTM
12-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Ha Ha why do you even try!!!!
I think he make s a valid point on Beadles I am also on the fence about JD Walton. I give him one more year if we do replace Beadles it'll be interesting to see how JD fares
I am on the fence about with our TE's. If it is any indication on weather or not they are progressing or if there is a log jam at the position. Them not being on the field is underwhelming especially Thomas. I think its a little early from a fans prospective to truly know if we need a upgrade at the position.

Your right though hes smoking some crack if he thinks JJ is the best back on our roster. Willis has had a solid year htis year.played through some pretty big injuries. Hes definitely a soldier in my eyes.and like his style of running. He definitely gets the award of all heart from me.

His opinion of the WR's is pretty on they have had some crucial drops. Itd be interesting to see how we fare with a traditional qb.

bunkley ok thomas is a good depth and the other ones hes talking about... yes smoking a little crack.

i like joes mays as a hitter thats about it. i agree we should have pressed for barnett. after Moore irving has been my biggest disappointment.

orange crusher
12-27-2011, 11:20 PM
WR- While Royal is a great receiver, his skills can only be utilized by a highly accurate passer that can hit him out of his breaks. He's a FA I don't expect to return. Decker and Thomas are both big targets with 'adequate' speed that can fight for the ball, but Decker has average hands and Thomas' are apparently covered in pork grease. We have two good, quick receivers with solid hands in Willis and Goodwin that are also returners, but in general WR is another major problem lacking a true #1.

MLB- Mays sucks donkey kong. I was all over signing Nick Barnett as soon as GB released him, but that ship sailed. I still think Mohamed would have been a better choice at MLB this year and hope either he or Irving take the spot next year.

DB- I doubt Goodman or Dawkins, who are regular burn units in coverage, are around next year. That leaves Champ and Vaughn on the corners with Harris there or at FS. I still think McCarthy should have started at SS, but either he or Carter should take the spot next year. FS is a problem if Harris doesn't take the spot and Moore keeps crapping the bed.

Decker and Thomas have suspect hands, yet Royal is a great receiver? Decker and Thomas have had their share of drops, but Royal has probably dropped as many passes as he has caught this year.

What did you see out of Mohamed that makes you think he would have been a better MLB than Mays, Irving or Haggan? It must have been something that the other 31 teams missed since he made it to the practice squad earlier in the year.

McCarthy starting at SS? Really? Outside of a couple of blitzes this preseason, I haven't seen anything from him to even warrant a roster spot.

TheChamp24
12-28-2011, 06:20 AM
To the specifics you mentioned;
OL- Beadles is a backup that regularly gets blown off the line in short yardage and is ineffective blocking at the second level. We would have been better off keeping S.Daniels as the starting LG this year, but hope an improvement can be made during the offseason. Beadles should not start next year unless injury.
The other four are very good starters that can compete with any other line in the league, but the backups Hochstein, Martinez and Hills gots to go. Clark is borderline effective so we could keep him along with Beadles as backups.

Daniels? Are you ****ing kidding me? That dude was worse than Beadles. Give me a break. Beadles/Walton I'm iffy on as they get blown up a lot.

TE- I got no problem with the staff we have. Fells has done a very good job and we have an overabundance of young talent developing quickly.

Tell me in what world do you see us having a receiving threat at TE. Who has shown you that.

RB- Major problem here as J.Johnson is the only RB on the roster worth keeping.

McGahee

WR- While Royal is a great receiver, his skills can only be utilized by a highly accurate passer that can hit him out of his breaks. He's a FA I don't expect to return. Decker and Thomas are both big targets with 'adequate' speed that can fight for the ball, but Decker has average hands and Thomas' are apparently covered in pork grease. We have two good, quick receivers with solid hands in Willis and Goodwin that are also returners, but in general WR is another major problem lacking a true #1.

You make it sound we have a bunch of quality WR's. We don't, we have maybe a couple decent guys in Thomas and Decker, and a lot of trash.

DL- If Bunkley, Thomas and Unrein stick around for next year we'll have a good core, but could still use a young addition. I'd hope to see R.Brown, who stood out this preseason, return and hopefully make the roster.
Dumervil and Hunter are very good starters, but after that we have the below-average backup in Ayers and hopes Beal has developed. R.Brown also looked dominant as a LDE, but we need to bring in some bodies to compete.

So you're hoping practice squad, guys who "looked good in preseason" will start next year.

MLB- Mays sucks donkey kong. I was all over signing Nick Barnett as soon as GB released him, but that ship sailed. I still think Mohamed would have been a better choice at MLB this year and hope either he or Irving take the spot next year.

Man do we need a MLB, but I don't think he's on our roster right now.

DB- I doubt Goodman or Dawkins, who are regular burn units in coverage, are around next year. That leaves Champ and Vaughn on the corners with Harris there or at FS. I still think McCarthy should have started at SS, but either he or Carter should take the spot next year. FS is a problem if Harris doesn't take the spot and Moore keeps crapping the bed.

McCarthy starting? lol
He played one game, got schooled, and then waived. This isn't 2008 where we'll start trash at safety all year.

Traveler
12-28-2011, 06:37 AM
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Don't think Moore has played the same since that hit. He supposedly was doing well all through training camp and preseason until that hit.

TonyR
12-28-2011, 07:05 AM
Don't think Moore has played the same since that hit. He supposedly was doing well all through training camp and preseason until that hit.

Yeah, the reason I posted that is because many were excited about him being drafted and in the pre-season I think many of us thought we had a player. I never thought to connect this hit to his "decline" but that's interesting and maybe there's something to it.

Traveler
12-28-2011, 07:25 AM
Yeah, the reason I posted that is because many were excited about him being drafted and in the pre-season I think many of us thought we had a player. I never thought to connect this hit to his "decline" but that's interesting and maybe there's something to it.

I only mentioned it because I watched his actions afterward and it's like he was confused, distraught, and not sure what he should do after he realized the guy was really hurt.

Not sure if he said something to the player he knocked out, but obviously #13 in the video wanted to fight for some reason.

Players tried to show him support on the sideline but he was clearly out of it while sitting by himself at the end of the bench.

razorwire77
12-28-2011, 11:33 AM
barryr - "No question the Broncos need an upgrade at LG, TE, another RB and WR, more depth on the OL, backup help at QB, DT, DE, MLB, CB, and maybe saftey if Moore and Carter can't cut it. That is a lot of needs and shows how poorly this team has been drafting the last decade."

Fire Xanders! Seriously, been saying this since McD was canned. Dude's a bum with zero eye for talent. The best way to improve the Broncos roster for next season is to bring guys into camp, through draft and signings, that can play at playoff-levels. Xanders can't do that so the Broncos need to find someone that can.

After that, it's a matter of Fox & friends determining who should be starters and who else makes the roster. Every year better players are assigned to backup positions than those that make starter and guys that standout as real talents are cut while scrubs make the 53-man. Start with a thin field from Xander's incompetence, fail to select the best from that field and we're left with "Holes Aplenty".
-----------------------------------------------------------

To the specifics you mentioned;
OL- Beadles is a backup that regularly gets blown off the line in short yardage and is ineffective blocking at the second level. We would have been better off keeping S.Daniels as the starting LG this year, but hope an improvement can be made during the offseason. Beadles should not start next year unless injury.
The other four are very good starters that can compete with any other line in the league, but the backups Hochstein, Martinez and Hills gots to go. Clark is borderline effective so we could keep him along with Beadles as backups.

TE- I got no problem with the staff we have. Fells has done a very good job and we have an overabundance of young talent developing quickly.

RB- Major problem here as J.Johnson is the only RB on the roster worth keeping.

WR- While Royal is a great receiver, his skills can only be utilized by a highly accurate passer that can hit him out of his breaks. He's a FA I don't expect to return. Decker and Thomas are both big targets with 'adequate' speed that can fight for the ball, but Decker has average hands and Thomas' are apparently covered in pork grease. We have two good, quick receivers with solid hands in Willis and Goodwin that are also returners, but in general WR is another major problem lacking a true #1.

DL- If Bunkley, Thomas and Unrein stick around for next year we'll have a good core, but could still use a young addition. I'd hope to see R.Brown, who stood out this preseason, return and hopefully make the roster.
Dumervil and Hunter are very good starters, but after that we have the below-average backup in Ayers and hopes Beal has developed. R.Brown also looked dominant as a LDE, but we need to bring in some bodies to compete.

MLB- Mays sucks donkey kong. I was all over signing Nick Barnett as soon as GB released him, but that ship sailed. I still think Mohamed would have been a better choice at MLB this year and hope either he or Irving take the spot next year.

DB- I doubt Goodman or Dawkins, who are regular burn units in coverage, are around next year. That leaves Champ and Vaughn on the corners with Harris there or at FS. I still think McCarthy should have started at SS, but either he or Carter should take the spot next year. FS is a problem if Harris doesn't take the spot and Moore keeps crapping the bed.

There is so much fail here that I don't know where to start. If J Johnson is super awesome, why can't he take carries away from Lance Ball? Hunter is a solid starter? Maybe in the XFL. Eddie Royal hasn't been a great receiver since his rookie year, and has dropped as many if not more easy passes than both Decker and Thomas. Stanley Daniels as the starting LG? Ha!

yerner
12-28-2011, 11:41 AM
Denver should focus on three guys in free agency: Ray Rice, Tracy Porter, and Mario Willams.

Snagging those three players significantly upgrades the talent across the board because it addresses three major issues with this team. The Broncos need an every-down DE. Mario Williams is that guy. They also need a bell cow back who can also catch out of the backfield. Ray Rice is that guy. You sign Porter and release Goodman.

Then you spend what else you can on a safety and another WR.

yeah, right. let's get vincent jackson too.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 11:44 AM
yeah, right. let's get vincent jackson too.

Denver is pretty far under the cap.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-28-2011, 12:22 PM
Rice has already said he's not leaving the Ravens

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 12:32 PM
Rice has already said he's not leaving the Ravens

Thats neat.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Thats neat.

I know, operating in reality usually is. But by all means, continue on with your fantasy thread.

DBroncos4life
12-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Thats neat.

You start a thread saying we have lots of holes that need addressed then you want a guy that will get a in the ball park of 5 to 7 years for anywhere between 60 and 100 million bucks. Not a great use of our cap money.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 12:44 PM
You start a thread saying we have lots of holes that need addressed then you want a guy that will get a in the ball park of 5 to 7 years for anywhere between 60 and 100 million bucks. Not a great use of our cap money.

100 million?

Doubt it.

Doggcow
12-28-2011, 12:46 PM
Take it to the religion forum and ask over there. This is a football thread.

Good luck in that forum.

Jokes. He misses them.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Jokes. He misses them.

It was a bad joke. Forgive me for wanting to talk football and not wanting this to devolve into another Tebow religious debate thread.

DBroncos4life
12-28-2011, 12:50 PM
100 million?

Doubt it.

Peterson just got 100 million bucks. Johnson just got 60 million and before that Williams got a 43 million dollar deal. You think a 25 year back with every bit as much talent as those other three will not make in the ball park as those three? Even if you take the average off those contracts you are looking at a 5 year 60 million plus dollar contact.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 12:51 PM
Peterson just got 100 million bucks. Johnson just got 60 million and before that Williams got a 43 million dollar deal. You think a 25 year back with every bit as much talent as those other three will not make in the ball park as those three? Even if you take the average off those contracts you are looking at a 5 year 60 million plus dollar contact.

You think that Rice is going to get Chris Johnson's contract when that Ravens team is full of talent?

I love Rice, but he's not Adrian Peterson.

DBroncos4life
12-28-2011, 12:54 PM
You think that Rice is going to get Chris Johnson's contract when that Ravens team is full of talent?

Yes. He isn't going to make less money because the team has more talent. He is better then Johnson given the fact that he is a true 3 down back.

Broncos_OTM
12-28-2011, 02:27 PM
My question is how attractive is Denver to FA's over all no specific position? I think Mr. Bowlen shells out for a contender and always has never been afriad to spend money. My question with Mr. Bowlens health How much of a influence does Joe Ellis have in our not spending over the last couple years.

rugbythug
12-28-2011, 02:28 PM
Yes. He isn't going to make less money because the team has more talent. He is better then Johnson given the fact that he is a true 3 down back.

Johnson put up 2k. He is way better than rice. Rice gets a solid contract nothing close to jaohnson or ap.

Broncos_OTM
12-28-2011, 02:29 PM
You think that Rice is going to get Chris Johnson's contract when that Ravens team is full of talent?

I'd think if they cant reach a contract he'd play on a Franchise tender . maybe to spread the money out? I really don't think Baltimore has a lot of big time free agents this year other than Rice.

Rabb
12-28-2011, 02:29 PM
Johnson put up 2k. He is way better than rice. Rice gets a solid contract nothing close to jaohnson or ap.

I am sorry, but I would pass on CJ and AP for that matter for Rice right now...the kid is a freaking monster.

Broncos_OTM
12-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Johnson put up 2k. He is way better than rice. Rice gets a solid contract nothing close to jaohnson or ap.


Rice

Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2011 Baltimore Ravens 15 15 267 1,173 4.4 67 10 74 696 9.4 52 3 2 2
2010 Baltimore Ravens 16 14 307 1,220 4.0 50 5 63 556 8.8 34 1 -- --
2009 Baltimore Ravens 16 15 254 1,339 5.3 59T 7 78 702 9.0 63 1 3 3
2008 Baltimore Ravens 13 4 107 454 4.2 60 0 33 273 8.3 40 0 1 1
TOTAL 935 4,186 4.5 67 22 248 2,227 9.0 63 5 6 6



Johnson

Season Team Rushing Receiving Fumbles
G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost
2011 Tennessee Titans 15 15 247 986 4.0 48T 4 53 369 7.0 34 0 3 1
2010 Tennessee Titans 16 16 316 1,364 4.3 76T 11 44 245 5.6 25 1 3 2
2009 Tennessee Titans 16 16 358 2,006 5.6 91T 14 50 503 10.1 69T 2 3 3
2008 Tennessee Titans 15 14 251 1,228 4.9 66T 9 43 260 6.0 25 1 1 1
TOTAL 1,172 5,584 4.8 91 38 190 1,377 7.2 69 4 10 7

Besides Johnsons 2000 yard year they are pretty even and almost a argument could be made that ray rice is a better all around back with his receiving yards.

DBroncos4life
12-28-2011, 02:39 PM
Johnson put up 2k. He is way better than rice. Rice gets a solid contract nothing close to jaohnson or ap.

Care to wager on that?

elsid13
12-28-2011, 02:41 PM
Rice has already said he's not leaving the Ravens

It amazes me that people don't get the fact that good/great football player in prime of their careers rarely get to enter FA.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 03:02 PM
It amazes me that people don't get the fact that good/great football player in prime of their careers rarely get to enter FA.

Namdi high-fives Darren Sproles and Marshawn Lynch and says wassup.

Either they enter free agency or their team trades them before they leave to get value back. Jared Allen fist-bumps Brandon Marshall and a host of other players and says wassup.

The Ravens have 4 significant UFA's this offseason. One of whom is a young borderline pro bowl guard (Ben Grubbs). Another of whom is a solid DT (Cory Redding). Another of whom is a franchise stalwart OLB (Jarret Johnson).

The Ravens have 7-8 million in cap space to take care of all of those guys. Extension talks with Rice have not been productive. Either Rice or Ben Grubbs will walk.

DBroncos4life
12-28-2011, 03:07 PM
Namdi high-fives Darren Sproles and Marshawn Lynch and says wassup.

Either they enter free agency or their team trades them before they leave to get value back. Jared Allen fist-bumps Brandon Marshall and a host of other players and says wassup.

The Ravens have 4 significant UFA's this offseason. One of whom is a young borderline pro bowl guard (Ben Grubbs). Another of whom is a solid DT (Cory Redding). Another of whom is a franchise stalwart OLB (Jarret Johnson).

The Ravens have 7-8 million in cap space to take care of all of those guys. Extension talks with Rice have not been productive. Either Rice or Ben Grubbs will walk.

Lynch was traded, Nnamdi Asomugha was tagged so many times then the Raiders VOIDED his contract to make him a FA. Other then that......

SoCalBronco
12-28-2011, 03:10 PM
My question is how attractive is Denver to FA's over all no specific position? I think Mr. Bowlen shells out for a contender and always has never been afriad to spend money. My question with Mr. Bowlens health How much of a influence does Joe Ellis have in our not spending over the last couple years.

Joe Ellis is the great satan of Broncos football. He's preying on the old man's feebleness, senility, stupidity and aloofness. He's going to bleed it dry at least one more year and then he'll have the cap floor to deal with starting in 2013, which will finally be a huge help to us.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Lynch was traded, Nnamdi Asomugha was tagged so many times then the Raiders VOIDED his contract to make him a FA. Other then that......

Yes, it seems common that teams trade players that they are not intending to resign these days.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Joe Ellis is the great satan of Broncos football. He's preying on the old man's feebleness, senility, stupidity and aloofness. He's going to bleed it dry at least one more year and then he'll have the cap floor to deal with starting in 2013, which will finally be a huge help to us.

What makes you believe this, SoCal?

SoCalBronco
12-28-2011, 03:13 PM
What makes you believe this, SoCal?

The proof is in the pudding. Look at our spending statistics recently...actually look at them all the way back to 2003.

DBroncos4life
12-28-2011, 03:15 PM
Yes, it seems common that teams trade players that they are not intending to resign these days.

They traded Lynch because of Jackson, Spiller and the fact that Lynch was in trouble with the law and the NFL. He still had the 10 and 11 season where he was under contract with them. It's OK to just say opps I was wrong.

Broncos_OTM
12-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Joe Ellis is the great satan of Broncos football. He's preying on the old man's feebleness, senility, stupidity and aloofness. He's going to bleed it dry at least one more year and then he'll have the cap floor to deal with starting in 2013, which will finally be a huge help to us.

I cant find it in me to blame bowlen after his health went in decline. But then again with his health in decline did some of his family put pressure in to cut the spending. One thing for sure well never find out exaclty

Old Dude
12-28-2011, 03:34 PM
My question is how attractive is Denver to FA's over all no specific position?

Probably a little more attractive than last year, when we were coming off a 4-12 season. But money is still the biggest issue for the vast majority of players.

I think one of the interesting things is that Denver may be more attractive to players at some "positions" than others.

Supposedly, offensive linemen LOVE to run block, since it lets them be more aggressive. No one runs it more than Denver. Shouldn't be that hard to attract a quality interior lineman who wants to smack some people (instead of getting smacked) for 70% of the game.

Denver may be more attractive to some running backs.

Probably not so attractive to WRs looking for the big numbers. ;)

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 03:35 PM
The proof is in the pudding. Look at our spending statistics recently...actually look at them all the way back to 2003.

Why would Ellis be cutting back spending? What stake is in it for him personally?

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 03:41 PM
Probably a little more attractive than last year, when we were coming off a 4-12 season. But money is still the biggest issue for the vast majority of players.

I think one of the interesting things is that Denver may be more attractive to players at some "positions" than others.

Supposedly, offensive linemen LOVE to run block, since it lets them be more aggressive. No one runs it more than Denver. Shouldn't be that hard to attract a quality interior lineman who wants to smack some people (instead of getting smacked) for 70% of the game.

Denver may be more attractive to some running backs.

Probably not so attractive to WRs looking for the big numbers. ;)

Ben Grubbs? If the Ravens franchise Rice, Grubbs is gone.

Does anyone have a good evaluation of Grubbs? He's a pro bowl alternate at guard this year.

6-3 315, in his third season. Has been a two-year starter. Has missed 5 games this season with injury.

elsid13
12-28-2011, 03:52 PM
Namdi high-fives Darren Sproles and Marshawn Lynch and says wassup.

Either they enter free agency or their team trades them before they leave to get value back. Jared Allen fist-bumps Brandon Marshall and a host of other players and says wassup.

The Ravens have 4 significant UFA's this offseason. One of whom is a young borderline pro bowl guard (Ben Grubbs). Another of whom is a solid DT (Cory Redding). Another of whom is a franchise stalwart OLB (Jarret Johnson).

The Ravens have 7-8 million in cap space to take care of all of those guys. Extension talks with Rice have not been productive. Either Rice or Ben Grubbs will walk.

The only players Raven will resign will be Grubbs and Rice, the other two are journeyman that have replacements already on the team. And only reason Marshall, Lynch and Allen were trade was because of conflicts with the coaches, all their team would have kept them if that didn't occur. Ndami was able to reach FA because of deal he made with the Raiders after he signed his tender that Oakland would let him walk. And Sproles is not a franchise player and his contract reflects that.

But keep on living in the Madden dream world were good players are let go to sign with the Broncos.

elsid13
12-28-2011, 03:54 PM
Ben Grubbs? If the Ravens franchise Rice, Grubbs is gone.

Does anyone have a good evaluation of Grubbs? He's a pro bowl alternate at guard this year.

6-3 315, in his third season. Has been a two-year starter. Has missed 5 games this season with injury.

Grubb is very good and not going anywhere, even if they franchise Rice. Ravens will just readjust contracts to get him and Rice paid. Just like Logan Makins was never going to be FA for the PATS, Grubbs isn't going anywhere but staying Baltimore.

epicSocialism4tw
12-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Grubb is very good and not going anywhere, even if they franchise Rice. Ravens will just readjust contracts to get him and Rice paid. Just like Logan Makins was never going to be FA for the PATS, Grubbs isn't going anywhere but staying Baltimore.

It seems that this guy believes that they're not going to be able to keep Grubbs:

"Having just signed Guard Marshall Yanda to a contract extension this past offseason, the prevailing wisdom appears to be that the team will let Guard Ben Grubbs walk after the 2011 campaign has completed. That said, given the falloff by the offensive line during this past weekend’s game in Tennessee, that wisdom may need to be reconsidered. Regardless, it seems unlikely that the team will be willing to pay a top of the market deal to both of its guards."

http://www.ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/With-Ngata-deal-done-what-will-the-Ravens-do-with-newfound-cap-space

I'll take his word over yours, and we'll see how it pans out.

If they franchise Ray Rice, then they won't have much room to play to re-sign Grubbs. Blind belief in the idea that they will "readjust contracts" just doesn't seem to be an appropriate way to analyze the situation considering the sizeable contract that Grubbs will receive on the open market. He's not restricted. Odds are decent that he gets paid more elsewhere.