Ron Paul on the Upswing in Iowa

[mosca]

This is why Ron Paul has both Obama and the rest of the GOP scared.

12 Days Till Iowa: Ron Paul Is Not a Politician
By JOE KLEIN | @JoeKleinTIME | December 22, 2011 |

I watched Ron Paul deliver his stump speech — to large and loving crowds — twice on Wednesday, and he did a very strange thing for a political front runner. He emphasized the things traditional Republicans are least likely to approve of in his libertarian appeal. He began each speech with a long, discursive section on foreign policy — citing George Washington, Dwight Eisenhower and George W. Bush, among others — and spoke of the perils of entangling alliances, the military-industrial complex and nation building. He minced no words. He said the money we saved overseas could be used to bolster programs like Social Security and Medicare, until we transition away from them. Then he devoted another long section to civil liberties, to his opposition to the Patriot Act and the illegality — he believes — of assassinating Anwar al-Awlaki, the al-Qaeda leader who was an American citizen, in Yemen. This was not political comfort food.

...

“I was a Democrat. I voted for Obama last time,” said a truck driver and, yes, stand-up comedian named Dave Johnson after Paul’s speech in the town of Washington. “But look what he’s done. The bailouts, the spending. Right now, he wants to cut Social Security taxes even though the trust fund is in trouble. I voted for him because I thought he was going to be the opposite of Bush — end the wars, reduce the deficit, improve the economy — and we’ve only gotten more of the same.”

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2011/12/22/12-days-till-iowa-ron-paul-is-not-a-politician/#ixzz1hI2xkkaV

[Rohirrim]

I hope he wins.

[Blart]

I'd never vote for the old kook, but I'm secretly rooting for him to win the GOP nomination.

Who else on that stage would make a debate with President Obama really interesting? Who else would ask the President why he continued the Bush policies of removing our constitutional rights? Who else would ask the President why whistleblowers (the same ones he promised to protect) have become the enemy? Who else is going to question Obama for being in the pocket of Wall Street?

[Rohirrim]

I'd never vote for the old kook, but I'm secretly rooting for him to win the GOP nomination.

Who else on that stage would make a debate with President Obama really interesting? Who else would ask the President why he continued the Bush policies of removing our constitutional rights? Who else would ask the President why whistleblowers (the same ones he promised to protect) have become the enemy? Who else is going to question Obama for being in the pocket of Wall Street?

It would be sweet to air it out, wouldn't it? ;D

[mosca]

I may not agree with him on everything, but at the very least he will bring issues to the table that need to be discussed - most of them having to do with Obama's continuation of some of Bush's worst policies. I'll take any progress on those issues that I can right now, with the hope that they remain in the public zeitgeist and continue to be discussed leading up to the 2016 elections.

[mhgaffney]

go Ron Paul!

[mosca]

Funny that he's gotten more attention from the press in their continued swift-boat attack than he has concerning the actual issues that he raises in opposing the Bush/Obama establishment.

It may get even uglier than this. His campaign is going to have to stay focused and stay on message.

[Arkie]

I'd never vote for the old kook, but I'm secretly rooting for him to win the GOP nomination.

Who else on that stage would make a debate with President Obama really interesting? Who else would ask the President why he continued the Bush policies of removing our constitutional rights? Who else would ask the President why whistleblowers (the same ones he promised to protect) have become the enemy? Who else is going to question Obama for being in the pocket of Wall Street?

Bush, Obama, and the Fed have spent over 16 TRILLION dollars in bailouts. The Fed is shrouded in secrecy. Its meetings are off-limits to the public. Its inner-workings are off-limits to the public. This is the worst plundering of a country's wealth in the history of civilization.

[Blart]

I do love RP's bill to audit the fed, and am glad he's reintroduced it.

[mosca]

Ron Paul still on a roll.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/d7ppnzspu7c?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mosca]

Cenk Uygur from the Young Turks breaks down the establishment GOP's response to Ron Paul's recent surge. This is coming from someone who admittedly disagrees with Paul on at least 50% of the issues:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iGPDTkeYjFs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[barryr]

Paul is a threat to the establishment, the government establishment since they know those cushy jobs, lobbyists, and wasteful spending with buying of votes would be seriously reduced. The media will not want him to win either since they like the current way things are done even though the country is in deep trouble because of it. The racist attempt crap is just the start from the media. If Paul gets more attention and traction, there will be more of it, all to discredit him.

[mosca]

Paul's lead continues to grow, despite suddenly recieving hours of negative coverage each day from the media that previously tried to ignore him:

http://i.imgur.com/lm22r.png

[Bob]

Paul's lead continues to grow, despite suddenly recieving hours of negative coverage each day from the media that previously tried to ignore him:

http://i.imgur.com/lm22r.png

I would be very surprised if he is not kocked into 3rd place by the media in a week...I really dont have anything against him, but I just do not think he presents himself very well. In any case, I hope folks ignore the media and just pick whom they believe would do the best job.

[TonyR]

Interesting article about how the lack of media coverage helped Paul. Will be interesting to see what happens as he gets more press.

[T]he virtual press blackout ... meant that the newsletters weren’t being mentioned, and that Paul wasn’t facing the intense day-to-day scrutiny that took a toll on other GOP candidates when they enjoyed breakthrough moments this year. It allowed him to present himself to audiences on his own terms and helped him become something of a sympathetic figure. In effect, Paul was able to take advantage of the many nontraditional means of communicating with voters that now exist without those voters being subjected to screaming mainstream press headlines about Paul controversies and gaffes. How many of the new supporters Paul gained these past few years didn’t know anything about the newsletters until this month? http://www.salon.com/2011/12/27/how_the_media_made_ron_paul/

[TonyR]

Paul's number are notably up with Democrats, making up for some slippage with Republicans ... [There's] real slippage with "very liberal" voters -- a tiny fraction of caucus-goers, at 4 percent. But strong support from moderates and "somewhat" liberal voters, and a bounce with "very conservative" voters, who make up 37 percent of the sample.

I would never suggest that the content of the newsletters are boosting Paul here. Two months ago those "very conservative" voters were ready to nominate Herman Cain. But one week after James Kirchick's Weekly Standard "ahem, remember this?" story kicked off the new wave of Paul stories, it's either a boutique issue that isn't connecting with people, a confusing issue that raises "liberal media bias" hackles with conservatives, or both.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/12/28/poll_newsletters_not_hurting_paul_in_iowa.html

[barryr]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/12/28/poll_newsletters_not_hurting_paul_in_iowa.html

Or maybe since Paul is being labeled racist, it has more democrats liking him more since the democratic party is the party of racists. The vote of the 1964 Civil Rights Act proved that.

[SoCalBronco]

I'm really not happy with a choice of Obama vs. Romney or Obama vs. Paul.

Huntsman would have been a really good President.

[alkemical]

Or maybe since Paul is being labeled racist, it has more democrats liking him more since the democratic party is the party of racists. The vote of the 1964 Civil Rights Act proved that.


https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRBybSbhoDaBPkcVBSQZ5mTMJQ9y4VVs pntUNsA7_L9iG-IqkAA

[alkemical]

I'm really not happy with a choice of Obama vs. Romney or Obama vs. Paul.

Huntsman would have been a really good President.

You will like it if you're American, right komrade?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm really not happy with a choice of Obama vs. Romney or Obama vs. Paul.
Huntsman would have been a really good President.
I think Huntsman would have a good chance against Obama, better than Romney, Paul isn't a consideration.

[Bob]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/12/28/poll_newsletters_not_hurting_paul_in_iowa.html

But if Paul is getting support from Dems, in the case of Iowa Dems are not allowed to vote in the primaries, so they will need to register as R's, which many wont do...

[Bob]

I'm really not happy with a choice of Obama vs. Romney or Obama vs. Paul.

Huntsman would have been a really good President.

It would be a re-run of last election. I dont think that Huntsman provides any real difference.

[Bob]

I think Huntsman would have a good chance against Obama, better than Romney, Paul isn't a consideration.

The media attempted to sell him to us using that line -- I really doubt it. He would pick up 3% more moderates, but lose 10% from the far right who would be discusted with the non choice.

[TonyR]

But if Paul is getting support from Dems, in the case of Iowa Dems are not allowed to vote in the primaries, so they will need to register as R's, which many wont do...

What’s wrong with using a list of Republican voters for a Republican caucus poll? The answer is that it’s extremely easy for independent and Democratic voters to register or re-register as Republicans at the caucus site. Historically, a fair number of independent voters do this.http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/new-iowa-poll-may-understate-pauls-support/

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The media attempted to sell him to us using that line -- I really doubt it. He would pick up 3% more moderates, but lose 10% from the far right who would be discusted with the non choice.
I really haven't heard anything from the "media" on Huntsman.

[mosca]

Ron Paul's grassroots effort in Iowa actually getting some props from MSNBC's Ed Schultz. What kind of bizarro world is this?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yf3P7zgAZRo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[alkemical]

I saw he's being turned into a meme

[mosca]

Bachmann's doing anything she can to stay relevant, now even making up stories that even others from within her campaign deny. As if Ron Paul's campaign has any need to actually pay someone from her struggling campaign to endorse him. The desperation continues.

Bachmann stands firm on bribery allegation against Paul campaign (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/bachmann-stands-firm-on-bribery-allegation-against-paul-campaign/2011/12/29/gIQAlpdRQP_story.html)

“He told me that he was offered money, he was offered a lot of money by the Ron Paul campaign,” Bachmann said of Sorenson in comments to reporters today in a parking lot adjacent to a funeral home near downtown Des Moines. “No one else knows about that conversation other than Kent Sorenson and myself.”... Paul’s campaign earlier had sent out a statement by Wes Enos, Bachmann’s Iowa political director, also denying the bribery charge.

“I can say unequivocally that Kent Sorenson’s decision was, in no way financially motivated,” Enos said in his statement. “While I personally disagree with Kent’s decision, and plan to stay with Michele Bachmann because I truly believe in her, I cannot, in good conscious watch a good man like Kent Sorenson be attacked as a ‘sell-out.’”

Bachmann said in a later interview with CNN that Enos has now quit her campaign and been replaced as political director.

[Arkie]

Now it’s getting ridiculous. Don't you know that those grassroots folks are not decent Americans?

The establishment is circling the wagons. The Neocons and new liberals are on the same side. Newt flat-out said "No" when asked if he would vote for RP against Obama. As if his comments couldn't get any more ridiculous, Gingrich mocked the veterans, small business owners, grassroots volunteers, and hundreds of thousands more who have gotten behind RP when he stated that RP’s views are "totally outside the mainstream of virtually every decent American." **** you, Newt. You’re not a decent American. You’re not an outsider like you claimed in one of the debates. I can't believe he said that. Ha! You know the government is bad when being an outsider is considered a positive. Newt's attacks are just the latest in an onslaught of how desperate the establishment attempts to smear RP and scare the voters about his plans to change the status quo.

I remember a thread on this WRP forum about 4 years ago called “death of the GOP.” The Neocons were dwindling. But one thing is for certain, if the GOP wants to continue to decline, the fastest way there is to nominate another Big Government politician like Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

The new Liberals are lost too. Liberals used to believe that all people had basic human rights. They believed individual liberty to be most important because only through ensured liberty are the other basic rights protected.

The decision is easy. RP has a serious plan to cut $1 trillion in spending during his first year, balance the budget, and fix our fiscal mess. Obama more closely represents the thing's Newt endorsed like spending billions in bailouts and spreading our families thin all over the world to nation-build without end.

[alkemical]

Bachmann's doing anything she can to stay relevant, now even making up stories that even others from within her campaign deny. As if Ron Paul's campaign has any need to actually pay someone from her struggling campaign to endorse him. The desperation continues.

Bachmann stands firm on bribery allegation against Paul campaign (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/bachmann-stands-firm-on-bribery-allegation-against-paul-campaign/2011/12/29/gIQAlpdRQP_story.html)

“He told me that he was offered money, he was offered a lot of money by the Ron Paul campaign,” Bachmann said of Sorenson in comments to reporters today in a parking lot adjacent to a funeral home near downtown Des Moines. “No one else knows about that conversation other than Kent Sorenson and myself.”... Paul’s campaign earlier had sent out a statement by Wes Enos, Bachmann’s Iowa political director, also denying the bribery charge.

“I can say unequivocally that Kent Sorenson’s decision was, in no way financially motivated,” Enos said in his statement. “While I personally disagree with Kent’s decision, and plan to stay with Michele Bachmann because I truly believe in her, I cannot, in good conscious watch a good man like Kent Sorenson be attacked as a ‘sell-out.’”

Bachmann said in a later interview with CNN that Enos has now quit her campaign and been replaced as political director.

So the campaign manager in a political arena jumps from a sinking ship to one that's got better odds, and more overall media exposure?

Bachmann is exactly what's wrong with American Women.

[alkemical]

Now it’s getting ridiculous. Don't you know that those grassroots folks are not decent Americans?

The establishment is circling the wagons. The Neocons and new liberals are on the same side. Newt flat-out said "No" when asked if he would vote for RP against Obama. As if his comments couldn't get any more ridiculous, Gingrich mocked the veterans, small business owners, grassroots volunteers, and hundreds of thousands more who have gotten behind RP when he stated that RP’s views are "totally outside the mainstream of virtually every decent American." **** you, Newt. You’re not a decent American. You’re not an outsider like you claimed in one of the debates. I can't believe he said that. Ha! You know the government is bad when being an outsider is considered a positive. Newt's attacks are just the latest in an onslaught of how desperate the establishment attempts to smear RP and scare the voters about his plans to change the status quo.

I remember a thread on this WRP forum about 4 years ago called “death of the GOP.” The Neocons were dwindling. But one thing is for certain, if the GOP wants to continue to decline, the fastest way there is to nominate another Big Government politician like Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

The new Liberals are lost too. Liberals used to believe that all people had basic human rights. They believed individual liberty to be most important because only through ensured liberty are the other basic rights protected.

The decision is easy. RP has a serious plan to cut $1 trillion in spending during his first year, balance the budget, and fix our fiscal mess. Obama more closely represents the thing's Newt endorsed like spending billions in bailouts and spreading our families thin all over the world to nation-build without end.

Ginrich is right - he's an outsider. The insiders won't let him play.

[TonyR]

Gallup finds him closer to the self-reported center than Obama, Bachmann, Gingrich, Perry, Santorum, and Cain. (Obama's outlying position comes entirely from Republicans, who seem to believe he really is the commie Fox News insists he is). So most Americans seem to disagree with the Beltway that Ron Paul is somehow an impermissible candidate for president. Why am I not surprised?

Meanwhile, Ron Paul has grasped the Iran question more aggressively as the voting nears. He is the only candidate who has taken military force off the table with respect to Iran's nuclear program. Obama is still threatening, with poor Leon Panetta being dragged back and forth in public by the Greater Israel lobby. Paul, in other words, is the only candidate we can be sure will not take us into a third war with a Muslim country in a decade. And he seems to believe this is a strength. No wonder Washington is still scratching its collective head.

The mindset that the world is our plaything remains entrenched. Only Paul has moved beyond that. If you ask me, that's the core of his appeal to the young.
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/12/the-mainstream-and-ron-paul.html

[mhgaffney]

The young people are the ones being forced to sign up for military service -- because there are no other jobs. It's understandable they do not supprt the crazy war policy.

It's also true of men already in arms. RP has a big lead over other GOP candidates in campaign contributions from US servicemen.

Meanwhile, the macho couch potatos lplay hawk -- with other peoples' lives. Sad. Very sad.

[mhgaffney]

BTW I have ben following NPR -- and yesterday they reported RP in a dead heat with Romney. Total BS. If the above report is correct.

It appears that RP has pulled ahead.

But from day one NPR has under reported NP's campaign.

Like the big media in this respect.

[Bob]

I really haven't heard anything from the "media" on Huntsman.

Really, I am surprised. About two months ago he was getting quite a bit of airtime on the "mainstream" news not so much on the right wing radio outlets.

[Bob]

So the campaign manager in a political arena jumps from a sinking ship to one that's got better odds, and more overall media exposure?

Bachmann is exactly what's wrong with American Women.

You mean she's honest, hard-working, Christian and smart? Yeah, I hate those kind of gals...

[Bob]

The young people are the ones being forced to sign up for military service -- because there are no other jobs. It's understandable they do not supprt the crazy war policy.

It's also true of men already in arms. RP has a big lead over other GOP candidates in campaign contributions from US servicemen.

Meanwhile, the macho couch potatos lplay hawk -- with other peoples' lives. Sad. Very sad.

"Forced" is clearly the wrong word choice. Now, if I was twenty and I was dumb enough to believe the lie that my only choice was to serve my country, or to flip burgers, that might be a hard situation, but regardless one still has a choice. America's upward mobility is among the highest in the world, despite what the Walstreet protesters with NYU degrees (paid for by mommy and daddy) might attempt to espouse.

[SoCalBronco]

Mitt Romney tops the latest Des Moines Register Iowa Poll in the closing days before the Iowa caucuses, but Ron Paul and Rick Santorum are poised within striking distance.

The poll, conducted Tuesday through Friday, shows support at 24% for Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts; 22% for Paul, a Texas congressman; and 15% for the surging Rick Santorum, a former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania.

But the four-day results don't reflect just how quickly momentum is shifting in a race that has remained highly fluid for months. If the final two days of polling are considered separately, Santorum rises to second place, with 21%, pushing Paul to third, at 18%. Romney remains the same, at 24%.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ses/52308788/1

IMO, this will come down to turnout. That's where Paul and maybe Santorum as well have the edge. Whoever is really second is just a hair behind and the GOTV effort can definitely overturn a slender 2% edge. Paul has the best operation there from what I've heard, but he seems to be losing Big Mo to Santorum. In order for this not to be over, Paul or Santorum have to win here and someone other than Romney has to win in South Carolina, otherwise its over, as Romney will take NH easily (I'm hoping for a Huntsman miracle there, but I think my boy will finish 3rd, he probably needs to finish 2nd there to make real noise).

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Mitt Romney tops the latest Des Moines Register Iowa Poll in the closing days before the Iowa caucuses, but Ron Paul and Rick Santorum are poised within striking distance.

The poll, conducted Tuesday through Friday, shows support at 24% for Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts; 22% for Paul, a Texas congressman; and 15% for the surging Rick Santorum, a former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania.

But the four-day results don't reflect just how quickly momentum is shifting in a race that has remained highly fluid for months. If the final two days of polling are considered separately, Santorum rises to second place, with 21%, pushing Paul to third, at 18%. Romney remains the same, at 24%.

Paul has been losing ground the last week as he was leading then. The more media attention for Paul the worse it will be for him. That's why his camp instructed all his volunteers to shun the media.

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Polling Data

<table class="data"><tbody><tr><th class="noCenter">Poll</th><th class="date">Date</th><th>Sample</th><th>Romney </th><th>Paul </th><th>Santorum </th><th>Gingrich </th><th>Perry </th><th>Bachmann </th><th>Huntsman </th><th>Cain </th><th class="spread">Spread</th></tr><tr class="rcpAvg"><td class="noCenter">RCP Average</td><td>12/21 - 12/30</td><td>--</td><td>22.0</td><td>21.3</td><td>14.2</td><td>13.7</td><td>11.7</td><td>8.3</td><td>2.6</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Romney +0.7</td></tr><tr class="alt"><td class="noCenter">Des Moines Register (http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/31/romney-leads-paul-in-new-des-moines-register-iowa-poll-santorum-surging/)</td><td>12/27 - 12/30</td><td>602 LV</td><td>24</td><td>22</td><td>15</td><td>12</td><td>11</td><td>7</td><td>--</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Romney +2</td></tr><tr><td class="noCenter">NBC News/Marist (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/Iowapoll111230nbcmarist.pdf)</td><td>12/27 - 12/28</td><td>425 LV</td><td>23</td><td>21</td><td>15</td><td>13</td><td>14</td><td>6</td><td>2</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Romney +2</td></tr><tr class="alt"><td class="noCenter">Rasmussen Reports (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/iowa/2012_iowa_republican_caucus)</td><td>12/28 - 12/28</td><td>750 LV</td><td>23</td><td>22</td><td>16</td><td>13</td><td>13</td><td>5</td><td>3</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Romney +1</td></tr><tr><td class="noCenter">Insider Advantage (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2011/InsiderAdv_Iowa_1229.pdf)</td><td>12/28 - 12/28</td><td>429 LV</td><td>17</td><td>17</td><td>13</td><td>17</td><td>11</td><td>12</td><td>3</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Tie</td></tr><tr class="alt"><td class="noCenter">PPP (D) (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_IA_1227925.pdf)</td><td>12/26 - 12/27</td><td>565 LV</td><td>20</td><td>24</td><td>10</td><td>13</td><td>10</td><td>11</td><td>4</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Paul +4</td></tr><tr><td class="noCenter">CNN/Time (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/12/28/topstate3.pdf)</td><td>12/21 - 12/27</td><td>452 LV</td><td>25</td><td>22</td><td>16</td><td>14</td><td>11</td><td>9</td><td>1</td><td>--</td><td class="spread">Romney +3</td></tr></tbody></table>See All Iowa Republican Presidential Caucus Polling Data (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/ia/iowa_republican_presidential_primary-1588.html#polls)

[mhgaffney]

"Forced" is clearly the wrong word choice. Now, if I was twenty and I was dumb enough to believe the lie that my only choice was to serve my country, or to flip burgers, that might be a hard situation, but regardless one still has a choice. America's upward mobility is among the highest in the world, despite what the Walstreet protesters with NYU degrees (paid for by mommy and daddy) might attempt to espouse.

I'll bet the ex marine who was shot and nearly killed by cops at the Occupy Oakland protest would take issue with your stereotypic view of it.