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ZONA
12-20-2011, 12:05 PM
A few plays really stood out to me during that game. I think Sims was right, I think Tebow showed some major signs during that game that he's improving as a passer.

Maybe his best pass of the game, the rolling left could have run it, waited patiently until Hall went past his man and lobbed a nice touch pass to him. Before I think he would have wanted to run that ball and how many QB's do you always see put way too much on that touch pass and it sails over the RB's head.

The big strike downfield to Thomas. Shows he does have a good arm. Ball was on a rope, tight and accurate.

Honestly, aside from the last half of the 4th qtr when it was garbage and desperation time, I thought he threw with good accuracy and timing that game.

He's got work to do still but I'm DEFINITELY seeing improvement, which is a great sign. :strong:



____ I still have no idea why on this forum when you make a post you have to have just a single word in the thread title and then edit _______ Seriously, this is 2012 almost and this can't be fixed?

Vine
12-20-2011, 12:13 PM
Don't you love it? Even if you were a Tebow skeptic, or a Tebow critic, or a Broncos coach or president! One cannot deny that he is making a lot of progress. Making enough progress to go forward in 2012 with him. No one can deny it. No one. If anyone does, you are looking more and more like an idiot.

It's pretty sweet for the people who believed in him all year long.

tsiguy96
12-20-2011, 12:14 PM
needs to learn to roll right without spinning back around to roll left. going right is unquestionably his weakest area at QB, he spins back left right into a defender half the time it seems.

vancejohnson82
12-20-2011, 12:16 PM
I agree with this completely

Watched the game with a lot of people who had never seen him play before and a lot of them asked me, "Whats the big deal with his passing"

he's definitely no Brady/Manning/etc, but I'll take the mobility and whatnot any day of the week

good stuff going on

Drunk Monkey
12-20-2011, 12:25 PM
Don't you love it? Even if you were a Tebow skeptic, or a Tebow critic, or a Broncos coach or president! One cannot deny that he is making a lot of progress. Making enough progress to go forward in 2012 with him. No one can deny it. No one. If anyone does, you are looking more and more like an idiot.

It's pretty sweet for the people who believed in him all year long.

Hey dip****, what exactly is your prize for being a believer all along? Why don't you cut out the fan police crap.

I am still a skeptic but liking what I see more every week. He is improving and in doing so making me less of a skeptic. Keet it up Timbo.

Spider
12-20-2011, 12:28 PM
I am still a skeptic but liking what I see more every week. He is improving and in doing so making me less of a skeptic. Keet it up Timbo.

this is where you lose a lot of Teboners , I agree he is progressing nicely , showing a hellva lot of improvement , with a full training camp , preseason , he should be lights out next year ...... he just isnt right there yet

Rohirrim
12-20-2011, 12:34 PM
Don't you love it? Even if you were a Tebow skeptic, or a Tebow critic, or a Broncos coach or president! One cannot deny that he is making a lot of progress. Making enough progress to go forward in 2012 with him. No one can deny it. No one. If anyone does, you are looking more and more like an idiot.

It's pretty sweet for the people who believed in him all year long.

Ha! Goddamn, this board is infested with ****ing weirdos.

schaaf
12-20-2011, 12:38 PM
That deep pass to Thomas was beautiful, couldn't have been a tighter spiral and it got there fast, I believe it was on 3rd down also

gyldenlove
12-20-2011, 12:43 PM
needs to learn to roll right without spinning back around to roll left. going right is unquestionably his weakest area at QB, he spins back left right into a defender half the time it seems.

In the first couple of games, almost without fail when he had to roll right he would do a 270 degree spin facing backwards before taking off, that is an absolute no-go for a QB to face his own end zone in a passing situation.

Obviously being a lefty he is more comfortable rolling left since he can still use his hips to make throws down field without setting his feet.

gyldenlove
12-20-2011, 12:45 PM
He passes much more naturally now, one reason is definitely his footwork, he is throwing off his front foot much more now which means he can put his hip into it and keep the ball up instead of throwing it into the turf.

His spiral is still somewhat erratic and he does throw some wobblers during a game but his accuracy is really much better than his completion percent would show and he seems much more natural in picking his target, early on his progressions didn't look good.

OABB
12-20-2011, 12:51 PM
SO...where are the tebowners to get upset about someone speaking truthfully about Tebow needing to improve?


Oh...that's right, they NEVER DO THAT. that was a myth made up by the haters....I'm glad I cleared that up.

You see, if you say he can't throw or he is a fullback, you will get trashed, because it's stupid.


If you say he needs to improve, we leave it alone.


#DestroyingmythsiswhatIdobecauseIamawinnerunlessIb etonKnoshownMorenototop1200yards.

Spider
12-20-2011, 12:53 PM
SO...where are the tebowners to get upset about someone speaking truthfully about Tebow needing to improve?


Oh...that's right, they NEVER DO THAT. that was a myth made up by the haters....I'm glad I cleared that up.

You see, if you say he can't throw or he is a fullback, you will get trashed, because it's stupid.


If you say he needs to improve, we leave it alone.


#DestroyingmythsiswhatIdobecauseIamawinnerunlessIb etonKnoshownMorenototop1200yards.

oh bullshiat ....... but I think they have been beat down hard enough to stop

strafen
12-20-2011, 12:53 PM
SO...where are the tebowners to get upset about someone speaking truthfully about Tebow needing to improve?


Oh...that's right, they NEVER DO THAT. that was a myth made up by the haters....I'm glad I cleared that up.

You see, if you say he can't throw or he is a fullback, you will get trashed, because it's stupid.


If you say he needs to improve, we leave it alone.


#DestroyingmythsiswhatIdobecauseIamawinnerunlessIb etonKnoshownMorenototop1200yards.

STFU! Seriously. Quit your whinning and crying!

OABB
12-20-2011, 12:56 PM
oh bullshiat ....... but I think they have been beat down hard enough to stop

lol. WHen were we beat down? our guy has led us to 7 wins in 9 starts and we may get into the playoffs which hometown zero Jay Cutler didn't do here. I think the fact that Tebow is improving is exciting.

Also, I think the defense carrying Tebow talk also got beatdown this Sunday if you really want to go there.

OUr team is improving, we are young, and I'm excited.

OABB
12-20-2011, 12:58 PM
STFU! Seriously. Quit your whinning and crying!

I have not whined. I have attacked haters. I'm cool with it.

If I was a pussy, I'd change my name and hope no one remem....oh wait..

Vine
12-20-2011, 12:59 PM
Hey dip****, what exactly is your prize for being a believer all along? Why don't you cut out the fan police crap.

I am still a skeptic but liking what I see more every week. He is improving and in doing so making me less of a skeptic. Keet it up Timbo.

I don't expect want a prize, but this really wasn't about other fans. It's about other people who never gave him a chance (especially ones who are paid to analyze games).

Spider
12-20-2011, 01:09 PM
lol. WHen were we beat down? our guy has led us to 7 wins in 9 starts and we may get into the playoffs which hometown zero Jay Cutler didn't do here. I think the fact that Tebow is improving is exciting. agreed but it is also a team win , just like it is a team loss ...agreed ?

Also, I think the defense carrying Tebow talk also got beatdown this Sunday if you really want to go there. we won last week ?

OUr team is improving, we are young, and I'm excited.

agreed 100% . I liked what I saw last week , started off strong , doing what we wanted on offense .... just have to work on mental mistakes ..... ;)

OABB
12-20-2011, 01:11 PM
agreed but it is also a team win , just like it is a team loss ...agreed ?

we won last week ?



agreed 100% . I liked what I saw last week , started off strong , doing what we wanted on offense .... just have to work on mental mistakes ..... ;)

yes. I agree. I don't think Tebow is the sole reason we are winning either, but he's a huge part of it. When your team feels like there is always a chance to win it helps the energy level...

They rarely felt that under Orton, and it does have an effect on the whole team. That's been the most exciting thing for me by far and all I have ever defended.

just wanted to get that out there.

peacepipe
12-20-2011, 01:20 PM
this is where you lose a lot of Teboners , I agree he is progressing nicely , showing a hellva lot of improvement , with a full training camp , preseason , he should be lights out next year ...... he just isnt right there yetIDK,this may be his ceiling. his stats have been relatively the same over the last few games.

OABB
12-20-2011, 01:22 PM
IDK,this may be his ceiling. his stats have been relatively the same.

true. But he is improving the little things and this bodes well in my opinion. I have always believed that a person's ceiling is up to them and depends on how hard they prepare and practice. ALl indications show that he puts in the work. So there really is no reason to see that he may be hitting his ceiling now unless you are emotionally invested that he wont.


Let me research your post history. brb...

OABB
12-20-2011, 01:23 PM
ohh....ok. I get it now.

Spider
12-20-2011, 01:25 PM
IDK,this may be his ceiling. his stats have been relatively the same over the last few games.

no it isnt , you just dont lean to read defenses week to week , when Tebow gets more confident , he will light it up

Smiling Assassin27
12-20-2011, 01:25 PM
IDK,this may be his ceiling. his stats have been relatively the same over the last few games.

that's a pretty illogical take. this may be his ceiling with no off-season, no coaching, and the inability to spend night and day at Dove Valley watching tape and working with the greatest qb of all time.

give the guy some credit. guys like bellichick and others have said his football IQ is high and his skill set is unique. but not even the Duke could have an offseason like Tim's and be expected to fully develop. last year was basically a throw away, given the coach, playbook, and surrounding cast. if he regresses or flat out can't improve anymore, so be it, but i doubt that'll be the case for a guy that works this hard.

Pontius Pirate
12-20-2011, 01:28 PM
I agree he is totally improving as a passer. Here he is in practice the other day:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S6e7GLNpuSg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

fontaine
12-20-2011, 01:28 PM
Tebow has definitely improved and at this rate with a full offseason should be a strong asset to the team.

The bigger problem is an OL that's really inconsistent in pass blocking and a DL that needs a real stud DT and DE that can push Ayers.

peacepipe
12-20-2011, 01:39 PM
that's a pretty illogical take. this may be his ceiling with no off-season, no coaching, and the inability to spend night and day at Dove Valley watching tape and working with the greatest qb of all time.

give the guy some credit. guys like bellichick and others have said his football IQ is high and his skill set is unique. but not even the Duke could have an offseason like Tim's and be expected to fully develop. last year was basically a throw away, given the coach, playbook, and surrounding cast. if he regresses or flat out can't improve anymore, so be it, but i doubt that'll be the case for a guy that works this hard.

We went into the season with the same offense as last yr,nobody had an off season,tebow had the opportunity to learn the previous system the last off-season as well as a whole season on the bench learning the playbook. He had a lot more than time than that of ponder,newton,locker & daulton.

OABB
12-20-2011, 01:40 PM
I agree he is totally improving as a passer. Here he is in practice the other day:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/S6e7GLNpuSg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

exhibit d. see it's all here. This thread has football discussion going, no one s freaking out on either side, and than...a hater troll comes in. If I could have posted over the last 6 weeks I would have millions more.

Teblowers= myth.

it's the Haters that are ruining this sight.

I rest my case.

OABB
12-20-2011, 01:42 PM
We went into the season with the same offense as last yr,nobody had an off season,tebow had the opportunity to learn the previous system the last off-season as well as a whole season on the bench learning the playbook. He had a lot more than time than that of ponder,newton,locker & daulton.

Sure he did. But you are forgetting what a raw prospect he is. he needs more coaching than most other "nfl ready" qb's. He really responds to coaching as well, so I think you are maybe giving him too much credit...weird, right?

vancejohnson82
12-20-2011, 02:00 PM
exhibit d. see it's all here. This thread has football discussion going, no one s freaking out on either side, and than...a hater troll comes in. If I could have posted over the last 6 weeks I would have millions more.

Teblowers= myth.

it's the Haters that are ruining this sight.

I rest my case.

whoa!!! this webpage has SIGHT!!!!>????!!!!

I better start posting with my pants on then

OABB
12-20-2011, 02:08 PM
whoa!!! this webpage has SIGHT!!!!>????!!!!

I better start posting with my pants on then

lol. I wish I could hide my learning disability better!

BroncoBen
12-20-2011, 02:13 PM
Don't you love it? Even if you were a Tebow skeptic, or a Tebow critic, or a Broncos coach or president! One cannot deny that he is making a lot of progress. Making enough progress to go forward in 2012 with him. No one can deny it. No one. If anyone does, you are looking more and more like an idiot.

It's pretty sweet for the people who believed in him all year long.

Well I was one of the nah-sayers, I didn't think he would improve. But I was wrong... I felt that if Tebow could improve every week I would give him a chance.

Well Tebow in my eyes is improving... I think Tebow has what it takes to be a solid NFL caliber Quarterback. Give him the offseason to work on some things.. draft more defense.. and next season the Broncos can make some noise in the playoffs.

This year is good experience for Tebow.. each game helps in his development.

OABB
12-20-2011, 02:15 PM
Well I was one of the nah-sayers, I didn't think he would improve. But I was wrong... I felt that if Tebow could improve every week I would give him a chance.

Well Tebow in my eyes is improving... I think Tebow has what it takes to be a solid NFL caliber Quarterback. Give him the offseason to work on some things.. draft more defense.. and next season the Broncos can make some noise in the playoffs.

This year is good experience for Tebow.. each game helps in his development.

welcome, my friend. Your seat is right over there. Make yourself at home. GB2

errand
12-20-2011, 02:16 PM
Don't you love it? Even if you were a Tebow skeptic, or a Tebow critic, or a Broncos coach or president! One cannot deny that he is making a lot of progress. Making enough progress to go forward in 2012 with him. No one can deny it. No one. If anyone does, you are looking more and more like an idiot.

It's pretty sweet for the people who believed in him all year long.

Just because we had a wait and see attitude about him doesn't mean we didn't "believe" in him. I said many times we could win games with him before the season even started, but i wanted to see him in more than 3 games before i hitched my wagon to him and said he's the guy for the next decade and a half.

He's shown enough to be the guy for 2012....hopefully he'll keep making strides in his progress and we'll have one less concern on draft day the next 10 years

OABB
12-20-2011, 02:17 PM
Just because we had a wait and see attitude about him doesn't mean we didn't "believe" in him. I said many times we could win games with him before the season even started, but i wanted to see him in more than 3 games before i hitched my wagon to him and said he's the guy for the next decade and a half.

He's shown enough to be the guy for 2012....hopefully he'll keep making strides in his progress and we'll have one less concern on draft day the next 10 years

your seat isn't quite ready yet. need to hide the tacks a bit better. GB2

barryr
12-20-2011, 02:26 PM
Tebow is improving, like you want to see any young QB and the team has been winning, which is not the norm. For him to be doing so without a full training camp as the starter and young WR's who are just learning too, it makes one hopeful and optimistic better things are ahead.

But no question it is the Tebow haters who have done more damage to this site than anyone else. The team was winning with Tebow, yet still those still wanted to post crap about Tebow and not like him for stupid reasons. If those aren't on board by now, they never will and since Tebow's development is also tied to the success of the future of this team, then those people are no fans of this team IMO. They know very well who they are and more and more people see it every day who those people are as well.

I see all QB's in the NFL making mistakes, throwing picks, missing open receivers, etc. But Tebow does any of them and it is somehow proof he can't play or ever get better. This double standard crap is old and beyond dumb and shows who is wanting and hoping for his failure, for again, idiotic reasons.

If anyone does not want Tebow to succeed, which ultimately means the Broncos too, then find a new team then. It's just that simple.

Vine
12-20-2011, 02:27 PM
Just because we had a wait and see attitude about him doesn't mean we didn't "believe" in him. I said many times we could win games with him before the season even started, but i wanted to see him in more than 3 games before i hitched my wagon to him and said he's the guy for the next decade and a half.

He's shown enough to be the guy for 2012....hopefully he'll keep making strides in his progress and we'll have one less concern on draft day the next 10 years

Wait and see approach is okay. Making blatant proclamations that Tebow is not an NFL qb and cannot ever be a successful NFL qb without ever even giving him a chance is not okay.

Vine
12-20-2011, 02:32 PM
In fact, I would venture to guess that most of the Tebow supporters all had wait and see approaches too.

If Tebow's play were to show, with a fair chance, that he cannot make NFL passes, and the team doesn't win, then I believe the most Tebow supporters (including me) would be looking forward to a new qb with the 2012 draft.

OABB
12-20-2011, 02:38 PM
Tebow is improving, like you want to see any young QB and the team has been winning, which is not the norm. For him to be doing so without a full training camp as the starter and young WR's who are just learning too, it makes one hopeful and optimistic better things are ahead.

But no question it is the Tebow haters who have done more damage to this site than anyone else. The team was winning with Tebow, yet still those still wanted to post crap about Tebow and not like him for stupid reasons. If those aren't on board by now, they never will and since Tebow's development is also tied to the success of the future of this team, then those people are no fans of this team IMO. They know very well who they are and more and more people see it every day who those people are as well.

I see all QB's in the NFL making mistakes, throwing picks, missing open receivers, etc. But Tebow does any of them and it is somehow proof he can't play or ever get better. This double standard crap is old and beyond dumb and shows who is wanting and hoping for his failure, for again, idiotic reasons.

If anyone does not want Tebow to succeed, which ultimately means the Broncos too, then find a new team then. It's just that simple.


greatest post ever?





















greatest post ever.

BroncoMan4ever
12-20-2011, 02:39 PM
that deep sideline throw to Thomas was beautiful. that is a throw that earlier in the season he doesn't come close to completing. just shows how much he is improving.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2011, 03:38 PM
Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

Imagine Tebow two years down the road with another two years worth of drafting and free agents filling out the roster.

Its finally an exciting time to be a Broncos fan looking toward the future.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2011, 03:44 PM
Tebow is improving, like you want to see any young QB and the team has been winning, which is not the norm. For him to be doing so without a full training camp as the starter and young WR's who are just learning too, it makes one hopeful and optimistic better things are ahead.

But no question it is the Tebow haters who have done more damage to this site than anyone else. The team was winning with Tebow, yet still those still wanted to post crap about Tebow and not like him for stupid reasons. If those aren't on board by now, they never will and since Tebow's development is also tied to the success of the future of this team, then those people are no fans of this team IMO. They know very well who they are and more and more people see it every day who those people are as well.

I see all QB's in the NFL making mistakes, throwing picks, missing open receivers, etc. But Tebow does any of them and it is somehow proof he can't play or ever get better. This double standard crap is old and beyond dumb and shows who is wanting and hoping for his failure, for again, idiotic reasons.

If anyone does not want Tebow to succeed, which ultimately means the Broncos too, then find a new team then. It's just that simple.

This team is building a new culture here. A winning culture. With that and with players like Tebow who do not take weeks off and demand by their example that the team do the same...the winning culture is possibly just in its infancy.

While the Broncos continue to have success, those haters will fall away one by one. It won't be any fun for them to be here all the time anymore, so they will leave only to show up when something bad happens.

But with Tebow being so prominent and the Broncos gaining fans around the country, I'm happy to have some turnover. It will be good to shed some skin and have some new growth...just like when Elway started becoming great. It will bring back fan optimism and get rid of the haters. I'm looking forward to the return of Mile High Magic.

Spider
12-20-2011, 03:47 PM
WTF is GB2 ?

OABB
12-20-2011, 03:49 PM
WTF is GB2 ?

BURN HIM!

Spider
12-20-2011, 03:53 PM
BURN HIM!

LOL

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2011, 03:54 PM
WTF is GB2 ?

God Bless
Go Broncos

Vine
12-20-2011, 03:56 PM
God Bless
Go Broncos

Thank you. I was wondering that myself.

snowspot66
12-20-2011, 04:05 PM
We went into the season with the same offense as last yr,nobody had an off season,tebow had the opportunity to learn the previous system the last off-season as well as a whole season on the bench learning the playbook. He had a lot more than time than that of ponder,newton,locker & daulton.

Knowing the playbook is a hell of a lot different than doing it in practice and doing it in practice is a hell of a lot different than doing it in games.

Mogulseeker
12-20-2011, 04:26 PM
Tebow is going to be amazing once he gets his spiral and footwork down.

Rohirrim
12-20-2011, 04:28 PM
This team is building a new culture here. A winning culture. With that and with players like Tebow who do not take weeks off and demand by their example that the team do the same...the winning culture is possibly just in its infancy.

While the Broncos continue to have success, those haters will fall away one by one. It won't be any fun for them to be here all the time anymore, so they will leave only to show up when something bad happens.

But with Tebow being so prominent and the Broncos gaining fans around the country, I'm happy to have some turnover. It will be good to shed some skin and have some new growth...just like when Elway started becoming great. It will bring back fan optimism and get rid of the haters. I'm looking forward to the return of Mile High Magic.

Yeah. When only posters like you and barryr are left, this place will be awesome. Ha!

yerner
12-20-2011, 04:29 PM
Those eleven completions were marvelous!

OABB
12-20-2011, 04:32 PM
Those eleven completions were marvelous!

GB3

Go Bless
Go Broncos
Get Bent

OrangeSe7en
12-20-2011, 04:33 PM
A few plays really stood out to me during that game. I think Sims was right, I think Tebow showed some major signs during that game that he's improving as a passer.

Maybe his best pass of the game, the rolling left could have run it, waited patiently until Hall went past his man and lobbed a nice touch pass to him. Before I think he would have wanted to run that ball and how many QB's do you always see put way too much on that touch pass and it sails over the RB's head.

The big strike downfield to Thomas. Shows he does have a good arm. Ball was on a rope, tight and accurate.

Honestly, aside from the last half of the 4th qtr when it was garbage and desperation time, I thought he threw with good accuracy and timing that game.

He's got work to do still but I'm DEFINITELY seeing improvement, which is a great sign. :strong:



____ I still have no idea why on this forum when you make a post you have to have just a single word in the thread title and then edit _______ Seriously, this is 2012 almost and this can't be fixed?

I know you were mentioning your example for a different reason but I thought his best throw of the game was when he was in the endzone, someone knocked the ball out of his hand, he picked it up along the back line and fired an incompletion to his left. That was a winning play that showed how he is able to keep his head when a lot of players would panic. Avoiding tha safety would have been huge if Denver would have been able to climb back in it.

OABB
12-20-2011, 04:36 PM
Those eleven completions were marvelous!

what is it like to watch our team win? is it hard for you? Does that make you feel dirty?

what is it like to be a ******? just curious.

epicSocialism4tw
12-20-2011, 04:40 PM
Yeah. When only posters like you and barryr are left, this place will be awesome.

No, there will be more posters here than ever, and the haters will be forgotten.

It will be fantastic.

Ironlung
12-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Well I was one of the nah-sayers, I didn't think he would improve. But I was wrong... I felt that if Tebow could improve every week I would give him a chance.

Well Tebow in my eyes is improving... I think Tebow has what it takes to be a solid NFL caliber Quarterback. Give him the offseason to work on some things.. draft more defense.. and next season the Broncos can make some noise in the playoffs.

This year is good experience for Tebow.. each game helps in his development.

You're a bigger man than most.

OABB
12-20-2011, 04:52 PM
You're a bigger man than most.

yep. If people could admit being wrong once in a while, this place would actually rule the webernetz.

Ain't gonna happen though....but it's a nice thought sometimes.

Ironlung
12-20-2011, 04:58 PM
Looks like the usual haters are coming in to hate. Hopefully they'll go the way of Tailgatenutsack and kick rocks.

broncogary
12-20-2011, 05:08 PM
Knowing the playbook is a hell of a lot different than doing it in practice and doing it in practice is a hell of a lot different than doing it in games.

Tell that to Kyle Orton. LOL

barryr
12-20-2011, 06:21 PM
Yeah. When only posters like you and barryr are left, this place will be awesome. Ha!

There you go again. Show me a post where I mention you when responding to a post not even about you. But as some have called it, being" butt hurt" enough that you have to resort to this when you have nothing else. At least one post from you that didn't include your Tebow-religion fixation. You are not fooling anyone, more people are seeing you would rather see Tebow fail, which means the team as well. If you want to be an outcast, just keep it up. You're doing a fine job of it so far.

oubronco
12-20-2011, 06:23 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bcXCG-fckQE/TtRom747koI/AAAAAAAAAsA/yxyLk2Cy0Bc/s1600/dog+tebowing.jpg

barryr
12-20-2011, 06:24 PM
Looks like the usual haters are coming in to hate. Hopefully they'll go the way of Tailgatenutsack and kick rocks.

Rep, they would rather worry about religion and politics than root for the team to do well. Pathetic!

ZONA
12-21-2011, 12:05 PM
IDK,this may be his ceiling. his stats have been relatively the same over the last few games.

That's some BS right there. How can anybody say after being a starter for a whopping 8 or 9 NFL starts a QB reaches his ceiling? That's laughable. I'd argue that's just when their starting to not feel all nervous as hell and can relax a little bit out there. Having an offseason in which his coaches can work with him and he can work with his receivers will be huge. He'll learn that playbook much better and might even be able to start calling audibles more frequently based on what he sees. There are many example in the NFL for this. Drew Brees now looks nothing like he did in SD. Rodgers looks much better late last year and this year compared to his 1st year starting. I even think the kid in Detroit looks better this year then his previous. Tebow has an amazing work ethic, even to those who think they have a good work ethic, his is even more amazing. He's smart so you combine those 2 things and how can you even remotely suggest he's possibly at his ceiling?