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LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
I think they have potential and I am in no way saying they won't be good...but these guys have got to learn how to tackle. Rahim Moore missed the tackle on Marion Barber last week when he scored, and then he missed one on Hernandez yesterday that turned about a 10 yard gain into a 20 yard gain.

Carter missed that tackle on Hernandez on the first third down of the game for New England yesterday that turned a 15 yard play into a 50 yard play

Powderaddict
12-19-2011, 10:07 AM
Agreed. We need better play from the safety position. They are rookies and I expect some growing pains, hopefully they learn a lot this season!

Smiling Assassin27
12-19-2011, 10:08 AM
Moore, in particular, has been a disappointment.

BroncoBen
12-19-2011, 10:09 AM
I think they have potential and I am in no way saying they won't be good...but these guys have got to learn how to tackle. Rahim Moore missed the tackle on Marion Barber last week when he scored, and then he missed one on Hernandez yesterday that turned about a 10 yard gain into a 20 yard gain.

Carter missed that tackle on Hernandez on the first third down of the game for New England yesterday that turned a 15 yard play into a 50 yard play

They both are young, usually you don't have two rookies starting at both safety positions.

I don't think the Broncos need to give up on them, they both are Rookies who are learning in live games.. Maybe more pressure upfront would help.

vonqkilla
12-19-2011, 10:13 AM
Carter missed barber first, didn't set edge, etc...

McDman
12-19-2011, 10:15 AM
They both are young, usually you don't have two rookies starting at both safety positions.

I don't think the Broncos need to give up on them, they both are Rookies who are learning in live games.. Maybe more pressure upfront would help.

Definitely need more time, but good God, do they need to tackle.

Popps
12-19-2011, 10:18 AM
This is one of the reasons I want some secondary help from free agency, not just the draft. Rookies may or may not develop... and that takes time. We need some help immediately. I hope we look for a starter at CB in FA, and wouldn't even mind a veteran safety. We could still draft a CB and develop our other young players.

razorwire77
12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Both guys need to improve, but with the size, speed and athleticism of the Pat's TE's, Welker in the slot and Tom Brady directing the offense they were put into a tough spot yesterday.

The people that are saying OMGZ they suck, are being sort of reactionary. They are inconsistent, and have some things to work on like all of the young players on this team. But, you see flashes of the potential with both of them. Rahim Moore had a helluva nice tackle in space on 2nd and goal in which I thought it was going to be a walk in touchdown. Carter seems to try to blow guys up instead of making an efficient tackle, but he's also been pretty disruptive and aggressive in the box when called upon to do so.

Like Tebow, like Demaryius Thomas, like Decker, like Franklin, like Irving, both guys really need a full camp, preseason and another year before we can make definitive judgments. IMO, what this team needs to address in the off-season is talent upgrades of veteran players that have hit their ceilings. The team needs to draft young and more talented replacements for guys like Joe Mays, Andre Goodman and Marcus Thomas, all the while keeping veteran backups around for depth.

Garcia Bronco
12-19-2011, 10:23 AM
Carter is awesome. Both need more reps and experience.

Shotgun Willie
12-19-2011, 10:25 AM
I personally refuse to give bad grades to any rookies in a lockout year. Especially those either not drafted in the first or those not expected to start right away anyway.

Dedhed
12-19-2011, 10:28 AM
I thought Moore was better overall than he has been recently. Carter has been pretty solid for a rookie all year. They need to get better, of course, and I think they will.

CEH
12-19-2011, 10:52 AM
Carter and Moore are rookies but they don't know yet what it takes to be a professional football player. They need alot of work both in coverage and tackling. It's one thing to make metal mistakes but these guys are making mental along with the inability to tackle. I'm not too optimizitic that either is the future.

Archer81
12-19-2011, 10:57 AM
I thought Moore was better overall than he has been recently. Carter has been pretty solid for a rookie all year. They need to get better, of course, and I think they will.


If I had to grade Carter and Moore for yesterday, they would both get C's. Moore almost got his hands on a pick early, and Carter got a sack. It was not all bad. Its about what I expected when I heard Dawkins was out. I also noticed that Moore, Carter and McCarthy would recognize the play and then be unsure, and flip coverage, allowing 1st downs or big gains. They need to trust what they see.


:Broncos:

bpc
12-19-2011, 10:57 AM
They both need to get better but at the same time, what did you expect yesterday against Brady and some great players on offense for the pats? Inexperience is a learning curve and corner you can't cut. The same patience required for Tebow's inexperience is showing up with our safeties, Orlando Franklin ect. Fans need to cool their jets and let the coaches do their job.

Pony Boy
12-19-2011, 11:01 AM
It's not just Carter and Moore, every team in the league is talking about missed tackles. Every coach in the NFL that's interviewed after a game always start off with "we need to tackle better" and they all are blaming the shortened offseason, and I'm tired of hearing that crap.

BroncoMan4ever
12-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Agreed. We need better play from the safety position. They are rookies and I expect some growing pains, hopefully they learn a lot this season!

this game showed how much we need Dawkins on the field. he is the one before the snap adjusting where everyone is lined up, he is a tackling machine and it would have prevented us from looking so young and lost in the secondary. against elite teams, a rookie secondary is just begging to be burnt.

TheChamp24
12-19-2011, 12:29 PM
This is one of the reasons I want some secondary help from free agency, not just the draft. Rookies may or may not develop... and that takes time. We need some help immediately. I hope we look for a starter at CB in FA, and wouldn't even mind a veteran safety. We could still draft a CB and develop our other young players.

Yes, I feel we should explore FA for CB/S needs more so than other positions.

beanerbronco
12-19-2011, 12:38 PM
I think the team as a whole needed to tackle better, even champ who is known for his tackling abilities wiffed on the gronk badly. We definitely needed bdawk out there yesterday. Shorter week to prepare so we need to put this one past us quickly.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 12:42 PM
Having 3 rookies playing together at the same time for the first time while going against Brady was less than ideal. But I also think another consideration is Von Miller's injury. He has had his moments the past couple of weeks but I think he's clearly slowed by his injury. He's far less relentless and his repertoire of moves doesn't seem to be there either. It's understandable but it still sucks.

Im also somewhat worried about the Buffalo game for this reason.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 12:44 PM
I think the team as a whole needed to tackle better, even champ who is known for his tackling abilities wiffed on the gronk badly. We definitely needed bdawk out there yesterday. Shorter week to prepare so we need to put this one past us quickly.

I think the poor tackling had a lot to do with being out of position. Goodman was talking about a lot of miscommunication, which I think was evident by poor angles and guys being a step slow at times.

barryr
12-19-2011, 12:56 PM
The defense has shown when Miller isn't a factor or not in the game, they resemble the mess we have seen the previous few years. No pass rush, giving up long runs, players out of position, and receivers and TE's totally wide open. It is clear for this team to take the next step, they need more playmakers on defense and it can't all be dependent on Miller.

snowspot66
12-19-2011, 01:00 PM
The defense has shown when Miller isn't a factor or not in the game, they resemble the mess we have seen the previous few years. No pass rush, giving up long runs, players out of position, and receivers and TE's totally wide open. It is clear for this team to take the next step, they need more playmakers on defense and it can't all be dependent on Miller.

That seems to be entirely dependent on Dawkins playing or not. We need to find or bring in a younger guy to be that kind of field general.

HAT
12-19-2011, 01:01 PM
Moore, in particular, has been a disappointment.

Four words......UCLA

barryr
12-19-2011, 01:11 PM
That seems to be entirely dependent on Dawkins playing or not. We need to find or bring in a younger guy to be that kind of field general.

True, Dawkins out made a difference too, hopefully he can help mentor the young safeties.

maher_tyler
12-19-2011, 01:18 PM
They are rookies...I fully expected growing pains. At least we have Dawk around to coach them up a little bit. Moore has been injured. Carter is doing better than I expected.

Drek
12-19-2011, 01:45 PM
Life would get a lot easier on them if our interior DL wasn't horrible and if our MLBs could actually play the run or the pass with any effectiveness.

Instead we need to bring safeties up in the box to cover our weak interior run stuffing and we need expand the zone they need to handle TEs in because our MLBs are absolutely lost when dropping into coverage.

Hell, our LBs in general are lost when dropping into coverage except DJ. Miller has real potential but it kills our pass rush to have him drop back, which is a huge problem we had against the Pats.

We need a real penetrating threat at DT to make life easier on Doom, Ayers, and Miller when rushing the passer. That same guy needs to also hold up at least as well as Bunkley when stuffing the run, so that the two of them can make life easier on our MLB. Then we need to add an MLB who can be a real field general, cover a TE at least within the first 10 yards, and finish one on one tackles.

Add both those guys and a real #2 corner this off-season and the Denver Broncos are a double digit win team next year and a serious title threat.

maher_tyler
12-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Life would get a lot easier on them if our interior DL wasn't horrible and if our MLBs could actually play the run or the pass with any effectiveness.

Instead we need to bring safeties up in the box to cover our weak interior run stuffing and we need expand the zone they need to handle TEs in because our MLBs are absolutely lost when dropping into coverage.

Hell, our LBs in general are lost when dropping into coverage except DJ. Miller has real potential but it kills our pass rush to have him drop back, which is a huge problem we had against the Pats.

We need a real penetrating threat at DT to make life easier on Doom, Ayers, and Miller when rushing the passer. That same guy needs to also hold up at least as well as Bunkley when stuffing the run, so that the two of them can make life easier on our MLB. Then we need to add an MLB who can be a real field general, cover a TE at least within the first 10 yards, and finish one on one tackles.

Add both those guys and a real #2 corner this off-season and the Denver Broncos are a double digit win team next year and a serious title threat.

Wish we had a nice receiving TE that could also block when needed. Wonder what it would take to pry Hernandez from NE...no way they hold onto both those guys with that many holes on D!

fontaine
12-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Hopefully we sign Brandon Carr in the offseason.

cmhargrove
12-19-2011, 02:32 PM
My middle school safeties tackle better because I force them to work on fundamentals.

Rather than saying just "poor tackling," let's look at exactly how it is poor. When you watch Champ make a tackle, he will always hit big targets below the waist (or hits the midsection, then slide down to the legs while encircling with the arms).

Moore and Carter make almost every hit above the waist - and whiff. Break down, drop the hips, control his legs - voila!

Archer81
12-19-2011, 03:33 PM
My middle school safeties tackle better because I force them to work on fundamentals.

Rather than saying just "poor tackling," let's look at exactly how it is poor. When you watch Champ make a tackle, he will always hit big targets below the waist (or hits the midsection, then slide down to the legs while encircling with the arms).

Moore and Carter make almost every hit above the waist - and whiff. Break down, drop the hips, control his legs - voila!


That might be part of the problem. Due to the new CBA, restrictions have been placed on how many practices can happen in pads, or how long teams can keep players in for practice.

:Broncos:

LRtagger
12-19-2011, 03:40 PM
Moore looked really good in the preseason. I wonder how much that illegal hit and fine affected him. He seems to have gone downhill since.

He also dropped an easy INT early in the game.

Mediator12
12-19-2011, 04:57 PM
I think the poor tackling had a lot to do with being out of position. Goodman was talking about a lot of miscommunication, which I think was evident by poor angles and guys being a step slow at times.

This. The secondary was all over the place and the safeties were constantly out of position and took poor angles to tackle and to cover. They were absolutely lost yesterday, and that is a fact.

Mediator12
12-19-2011, 05:04 PM
That might be part of the problem. Due to the new CBA, restrictions have been placed on how many practices can happen in pads, or how long teams can keep players in for practice.

:Broncos:

That's ******* BS at this point in the season. Teams have had almost a full season to work on the fundamentals, especially since they can not really get physical in practice anymore.

Also, they have seriously poor cone tackling fundamentals in Zone. The way they fail to attack the proper hip of the player they are trying to tackle is particularly pathetic IMHO.

The part that is absolutely criminal is the mental aspect at this point though. These guys are not rooks anymore, but they played like scared UDFA's yesterday. Especially pre-snap and getting set. Oh wait, the Defense has to declare first I forgot :welcome:

Vine
12-19-2011, 05:16 PM
Yep. That easy interception. Hit him in the damn facemask. How many Brady passes hit an opponent in the facemask? This was in the first quarter and would have put defense on the + side for turnover differential. Hard to pin the game on one play, but if Moore doesn't drop that INT, I think the game may have played out quite differently.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 05:19 PM
Yep. That easy interception. Hit him in the damn facemask. How many Brady passes hit an opponent in the facemask? This was in the first quarter and would have put defense on the + side for turnover differential. Hard to pin the game on one play, but if Moore doesn't drop that INT, I think the game may have played out quite differently.

Stop being a dumbass. It was plain to see that it was deflected/redirected when it hit someone else's hand(s).

Vine
12-19-2011, 05:27 PM
Stop being a dumbass. It was plain to see that it was deflected/redirected when it hit someone else's hand(s).

You stop being a dumbass. Be a ****ing athlete in the NFL and if it hits you in the facemask, you should catch that ball.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 05:37 PM
You stop being a dumbass. Be a ****ing athlete in the NFL and if it hits you in the facemask, you should catch that ball.

Yeah, according to that reasoning, every foul tip in major league baseball should always be caught by the catcher.

Grab a clue, dip****.

Rascal
12-19-2011, 05:45 PM
They are rookies and went up against one of the best QBs in the league...some would say past decade. The defense has several weaknesses and when you have several those will be exploited by a good offense. Bunkley is good against the run, Thomas is average, but both suck at generating a pass rush. That allows the offense to key on Miller/Dumerville and Miller can be eliminated by formations requiring him to cover (which happened a lot yesterday). The defense has a huge hole at MLB (Mays is average against the run but awful against the pass) and a similar hole at CB in Goodman.

But this defense has shown remarkable improvement from last year and the depth was paper-thin.

Vine
12-19-2011, 05:50 PM
Yeah, according to that reasoning, every foul tip in major league baseball should always be caught by the catcher.

Grab a clue, dip****.

Wrong again asswipe. Your MLB catcher analogy don't hold up because the catcher is 6 inches behind the batter. Are you really that ****ing clueless?

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 05:53 PM
Wrong again asswipe. Your MLB catcher analogy don't hold up because the catcher is 6 inches behind the batter. Are you really that ****ing clueless?

And a S is supposed to have the same skillset as a catcher? You're wrong. Now go play in traffic.

Vine
12-19-2011, 06:09 PM
And a S is supposed to have the same skillset as a catcher? You're wrong. Now go play in traffic.

You are the one comparing positions from two different sports. Aren't you the one suggesting that they have the same skill sets??? Keep embarrassing yourself. It's quite funny, actually.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 06:12 PM
You are the one comparing positions from two different sports. Aren't you the one suggesting that they have the same skill sets??? Keep embarrassing yourself. It's quite funny, actually.

If a catcher, who plays baseball and see's upper 90s all the time drops foul tips on a constant basis, then you cant really expect a safety to do what you're not expecting from a catcher. You're a joke.

oubronco
12-19-2011, 06:15 PM
My middle school safeties tackle better because I force them to work on fundamentals.

Rather than saying just "poor tackling," let's look at exactly how it is poor. When you watch Champ make a tackle, he will always hit big targets below the waist (or hits the midsection, then slide down to the legs while encircling with the arms).

Moore and Carter make almost every hit above the waist - and whiff. Break down, drop the hips, control his legs - voila!

Wrap your arms around them while hitting them and hang on

oubronco
12-19-2011, 06:17 PM
Moore looked really good in the preseason. I wonder how much that illegal hit and fine affected him. He seems to have gone downhill since.

He also dropped an easy INT early in the game.

Good point, he hasn't brought the wood since has he

oubronco
12-19-2011, 06:19 PM
Wrong again asswipe. Your MLB catcher analogy don't hold up because the catcher is 6 inches behind the batter. Are you really that ****ing clueless?

We can have this but no boobs?

Lestat
12-19-2011, 06:30 PM
yeah their tackling at times has been Pop Warner ish. but we have to remember they're rookies and likely will only get better with guys like Champ and Dawk in their ears and coaching them up.

Archer81
12-19-2011, 06:36 PM
That's ******* BS at this point in the season. Teams have had almost a full season to work on the fundamentals, especially since they can not really get physical in practice anymore.

Also, they have seriously poor cone tackling fundamentals in Zone. The way they fail to attack the proper hip of the player they are trying to tackle is particularly pathetic IMHO.

The part that is absolutely criminal is the mental aspect at this point though. These guys are not rooks anymore, but they played like scared UDFA's yesterday. Especially pre-snap and getting set. Oh wait, the Defense has to declare first I forgot :welcome:


Just offered a theory, I'm not married to it. And bad tackling is not just something that is happening in Denver. League wide thing. I do think tackling is something that needs to be worked on at every opportunity. The new CBA prevents that from being implemented. The mistakes you pointed out are from rookie players. All they see is the guy they were/are responsible for has the ball, and they overreact to it rather than making the right play. Moore and Carter are more than capable of making the play. They just need to cease thinking about it and do it.

:Broncos:

Vine
12-19-2011, 06:50 PM
If a catcher, who plays baseball and see's upper 90s all the time drops foul tips on a constant basis, then you cant really expect a safety to do what you're not expecting from a catcher. You're a joke.

So that pass from Brady was 98 mph?

Vine
12-19-2011, 06:51 PM
We can have this but no boobs?

He called me a name before I called him one. Call him out, not me.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 06:54 PM
So that pass from Brady was 98 mph?

Once again, what you're retarded mind is failing to wrap itself around is the fact that it's relative. If a catcher, who hit and catch 98 mph all the time can miss foul tips, then a safety shouldnt be expected to catch deflections from close range.

Just stop, dumbass.

Old Dude
12-19-2011, 07:00 PM
That's enough out of both of you.

Vine
12-19-2011, 07:07 PM
That's enough out of both of you.

I agree. It is enough. My last message (which will be my last) was posted before I saw your warning. Erase it if you wish. In fact erase this whole argument. It's a damn stupid argument anyway, and I can't believed I stooped to such a level to engage myself in it.

Old Dude
12-19-2011, 07:13 PM
Done.

Hulamau
12-19-2011, 08:03 PM
This is one of the reasons I want some secondary help from free agency, not just the draft. Rookies may or may not develop... and that takes time. We need some help immediately. I hope we look for a starter at CB in FA, and wouldn't even mind a veteran safety. We could still draft a CB and develop our other young players.

Agreed, we have to get a near Dawkins level stud to keep it together while either Carter and Moore develope and/or we find a real stud in teh draft and bring him up to speed. We need a ring for Champ before he's done and I wish Dawkins could get one too though I'd be surprised if he comes back next season with all teh wear and tear he is showing and in spite of his high level of play while he is out there this year.

We needed Dawkin and a fully healthy McGahee in the worst way yesterday, still might have lost but I imagine it would have been a lot closer with a chance to win it late without so many rookie/scrub mistakes on both sides of the ball.

Also need desparately a replacement for Goodie someone with more size, strength and speed and not jsut a rookie but a seasoned vet in FA if we can find one while drafting the best corner we can find at our slot as well.

On O we need one or two better RBs to go with Willis who also has not so much tred left on his wheels, a Superior pass catching, route-running TE (maybe one or both of the two rookies can blossom in the offseason?) another game breaking WR to blend with DT who will be a total top 10 WR next year for sure and Decker who can be that solid possession guy with some more conssitency in the offseason work with Tebow. Perhaps a good Guard/Center who can start or back up but to provide quality depth at least. And of course a solid BU QB that can reasonable run our new system should Timmy go down for any time.

But still the priority has to be Defense and RB...

ZONA
12-19-2011, 08:50 PM
The defense has shown when Miller isn't a factor or not in the game, they resemble the mess we have seen the previous few years. No pass rush, giving up long runs, players out of position, and receivers and TE's totally wide open. It is clear for this team to take the next step, they need more playmakers on defense and it can't all be dependent on Miller.

I would agree with that. I've been saying, an outstanding MLB would help oh so much. And we definitely need to look at Safeties in FA. Not so sure Dawkins the beast will last another year in the NFL, I think he's already the oldest to ever play it or has the most seasons, something like that. And we are still looking for a DL that commands double teams. Doom is a nice edge rusher but really doesn't have a great inside presence since he's undersized. I wish Tye had not been injured, would have loved to seen what he could have brought to the table. But this team has been looking for the next Trevor Pryce type of DL for a long time. A big strong dude who needs to see a fair share of double teams, inside or outside.

oubronco
12-19-2011, 08:57 PM
We need some ba dass DT's and a mean muthafuggin MLB with speed and we'll be set

fontaine
12-20-2011, 04:27 AM
There is no excuse for poor tackling. Yes Moore/Carter are rooks but so are guys like Chris Harris and Von Miller. If an undrafted, undersized CB in Harris can consistently make tackles against guys 40-50 lbs bigger than him then so can Moore and Carter.

There's a reason why Moore has been a healthy inactive at times this season and now I can see why.

Mediator12
12-20-2011, 05:05 PM
The safeties of the Steelers and 49'ers are very solid tacklers, take great angles in coverage and to tackle, and are very good in open spaces breaking down. That is why those defenses are so good. Watching MNF and then rewatching the Broncos game was just plain depressing.

Yes, those guys are rookies. Yes, Brady is excellent. However, most of their struggles were their own mental mistakes and not being able execute simple assignments. At this point of the season, they should be much more consistent with all the PT they have accrued. They do not have to be playmakers or great, just average and not below average. Did not see that on SUN.

Cito Pelon
12-20-2011, 05:24 PM
It seems pretty clear that we don't have enough turnovers created by the defense. Right near the bottom of the League in takeaways and passes defensed. If the staff feels like they can go into next season with Moore, Bruton, Carter that's fine with me. But the takeaways and passes defensed absolutely have to go up next season.

Cito Pelon
12-20-2011, 05:33 PM
My middle school safeties tackle better because I force them to work on fundamentals.

Rather than saying just "poor tackling," let's look at exactly how it is poor. When you watch Champ make a tackle, he will always hit big targets below the waist (or hits the midsection, then slide down to the legs while encircling with the arms).

Moore and Carter make almost every hit above the waist - and whiff. Break down, drop the hips, control his legs - voila!

Yup.

errand
12-20-2011, 05:42 PM
Carter and Moore are rookies but they don't know yet what it takes to be a professional football player. They need alot of work both in coverage and tackling. It's one thing to make metal mistakes but these guys are making mental along with the inability to tackle. I'm not too optimizitic that either is the future.

And yet when people showed concern over a 1st round, Heisman winning, QB due to his poor play, it was considered blasphemy around here....

These two guys are just as young, and show flashes of big time potential....just like that aforementioned QB. Give them some time...

oubronco
12-20-2011, 05:58 PM
The safeties of the Steelers and 49'ers are very solid tacklers, take great angles in coverage and to tackle, and are very good in open spaces breaking down. That is why those defenses are so good. Watching MNF and then rewatching the Broncos game was just plain depressing.

Yes, those guys are rookies. Yes, Brady is excellent. However, most of their struggles were their own mental mistakes and not being able execute simple assignments. At this point of the season, they should be much more consistent with all the PT they have accrued. They do not have to be playmakers or great, just average and not below average. Did not see that on SUN.

To be fair how long was the 49ers defense just pathetic with them picking high in the draft before they struck gold?

Let's give these guys time to develop and EFX time to get better players all over the Defense especially up front before we have a mutiny

Old Dude
12-20-2011, 06:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos address the Safety spots in free agency or again in the draft.

Obviously, they still have lots of needs on both offense and defense, but at least they made some progress this year.

OrangeSe7en
12-20-2011, 09:34 PM
I dont see them addressing safety in the draft. At least not early. They used an early pick on Rahim Moore and, they'll want to see how he does when he's allowed to participate in the offseason. It wasn't until partway through the season that the secondary started to click in this new defense and this was with Dawkins back there.

ScottXray
12-20-2011, 10:06 PM
The safeties of the Steelers and 49'ers are very solid tacklers, take great angles in coverage and to tackle, and are very good in open spaces breaking down. That is why those defenses are so good. Watching MNF and then rewatching the Broncos game was just plain depressing.

Yes, those guys are rookies. Yes, Brady is excellent. However, most of their struggles were their own mental mistakes and not being able execute simple assignments. At this point of the season, they should be much more consistent with all the PT they have accrued. They do not have to be playmakers or great, just average and not below average. Did not see that on SUN.

Have to agree . They may be rookies but what they showed Sunday is that they are not the answer at either safety position as of now. They need to REALLY improve in order to play at NFL level, and that may be above their grade.

I'm just hoping that Dawkins is able to go Saturday, and set the Defense calls. He seems to be the guy who steadies everyone else.

Bailey Should be able to do that...but he has never been a vocal Team leader type, and playing the Corner means he is out on the edge and only seeing his side of the field.

I hope that when he moves to safety ( next year or two) he will be able to fill that role too.

Armchair Bronco
12-20-2011, 10:55 PM
We haven't had a home-grown stud at safety since Steve Atwater.

Man, I sure wish we had a player like him on the squad. Dawkins is a great player, don't get me wrong. But he's not home-grown. He was a castoff from Phily who thought he was past his prime.

They were wrong at the time, but with all his injuries this year, there isn't much left in his tank.

Where's the next Steve Atwater?

broncosteven
12-20-2011, 11:04 PM
I am going to wait until after the year to break the team down, hopefully we are playing with these 53 guys for another 3,4,5, or 6 weeks!

Go Broncos!

Mediator12
12-21-2011, 11:15 AM
To be fair how long was the 49ers defense just pathetic with them picking high in the draft before they struck gold?

Let's give these guys time to develop and EFX time to get better players all over the Defense especially up front before we have a mutiny

Their defense has a lot of high draft picks, but 3 of their best players on Defense were FA's. Justin Smith, Carlos Rodgers, and Donte Whitner were huge additions to Patrick Willis and the rest of their draft picks. Rodgers and Whitner are FA's who are huge in their secondary right now. The other 2 guys in their secondary are Dashon Goldson and Tarell Brown which are much lower round draft picks.

A lot of the first round picks since 2005 were Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, and Joe Staley on OFFENSE. They Only selected Aldon Smith and Patrick Willis who are still on that defense and and they are all LB's. They did select Kentwan Balmer and Manny Lawson but they no longer play for them and are not secondary guys.

The point is, draft selection and ability are never the same and DEN's safeties are lukewarm at best without Dawkins in there. I am not conducting a mutiny yet, I am simply evaluating their current lack of performance. Way too many players failed this league with premier physical ability and not enough mental toughness or capability. And, the best defenses have quality safeties on the back end to clean up and make up for other deficiencies.

I am not comfortable this defense can continue to play at a high enough level to win games RIGHT NOW without Dawkins available. The pass rush had covered up a lot of evils on the winning streak, but they were held in check against a solid team with good coaching. That's what this is all about. Not, if they can get better or are the future. They may well be, or they may not be. Only time can tell.