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LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 08:22 AM
This is not a thread to talk about how bad a play it was by Cosby or bash the coaching staff. I just have a serious question and wanted to see if anyone might have an explanation.

Why would we even put someone back to return that punt with 3 seconds left in the half. The pats are punting from midfield so you know you aren't going to get a return. I can't think of one reason to even put someone back there in case they fumbled. Anyone know?

I actually looked at my dad after the third down stop and said "I wouldn't even put someone back there." CU did the same thing against Ohio State and fumbled with 5 seconds til halftime...gave them a field goal.

LRtagger
12-19-2011, 08:25 AM
I could see putting a guy back there if it's Hester, DeSean, Patrick Peterson...but not ****ing 5.0s 40 Quan Cosby. I completely agree - no point putting him back there. He's obviously not going to take the kick back for a TD.

jhns
12-19-2011, 08:27 AM
Cosby shouldn't have tried to field it. You leave him back there in case they screw up the punt and kick it short, or low with no hang time. The coaching staff, and Cosby, should know/teach that you don't try catching that otherwise.

LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 08:27 AM
I could see putting a guy back there if it's Hester, DeSean, Patrick Peterson...but not ****ing 5.0s 40 Quan Cosby. I completely agree - no point putting him back there. He's obviously not going to take the kick back for a TD.

Exactly. It either goes in the endzone and you take a knee and go to halftime or the Pat's down it and you take a knee and go to halftime. There really is only one reason I can think of to put someone back there and it is like you said...to take it back for a TD. Even if he returns it to midfield the half is over. So unless Fox thought we had a chance to return for a TD that one is on him.

Spider
12-19-2011, 08:29 AM
well it was a screw up , But he was tryin to make something happen , wanting to contribute .... lets hope he learns his lesson

canadianbroncosfan
12-19-2011, 08:30 AM
Cosby shouldn't have tried to field it. You leave him back there in case they screw up the punt and kick it short, or low with no hang time. The coaching staff, and Cosby, should know/teach that you don't try catching that otherwise.

Yeah I agree, crappy punts do happen however under regular circumstances, YOU DO NOT try and field that. What baffles me more is that he was back in the game in the second half to field a punt tsk tsk

LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 08:32 AM
Cosby shouldn't have tried to field it. You leave him back there in case they screw up the punt and kick it short, or low with no hang time. The coaching staff, and Cosby, should know/teach that you don't try catching that otherwise.

So they kick it low and he returns it...what are the odds he goes for a TD? 1/50? I think there was a much better chance of a fumble or roughing the kicker or something than there was of returning it for a TD

DrFate
12-19-2011, 08:33 AM
You leave him back there in case they screw up the punt and kick it short, or low with no hang time.

I'm with the OP on this one. It's 3 seconds left - what difference does it make where/how they punt it? Unless you feel you can return it for a score, it makes just as much sense for Cosby to be on the LOS.

DrFate
12-19-2011, 08:34 AM
It's like a free throw in a 4 point game - just don't put anybody on the lane to make sure they don't commit a stupid foul or something.

jhns
12-19-2011, 08:36 AM
So they kick it low and he returns it...what are the odds he goes for a TD? 1/50? I think there was a much better chance of a fumble or roughing the kicker or something than there was of returning it for a TD

I would take those odds. I haven't seen an NFL team go without a returner before though, so I don't get where the strategy is coming from. I'm also pretty sure that we now have as many return TDs as fumbled punts this season. I could be wrong though. I don't remember any other muffed punts.

Edit: I just remembered that we have two punt return TDs. So we have more TDs than screwups as long as I'm not forgetting fumbles.

CEH
12-19-2011, 08:40 AM
With the way the 2nd qtr went you step away and head into the locker room down by one score and regroup. Simple as that. I think Quan may stick because it's late in the season but had this happened mid season he would be cut. Unexcusable. The punter returner should know the situation.

ScottXray
12-19-2011, 08:44 AM
Cosby shouldn't have tried to field it. You leave him back there in case they screw up the punt and kick it short, or low with no hang time. The coaching staff, and Cosby, should know/teach that you don't try catching that otherwise.

Last week Marion Barber made two mistakes that ended up giving away the game becasue he was trying to be a "star ", and win the game on his own, instead of being a smart TEAM player.

Cosby did the same thing yesterday on the muff. He should have signaled fair catch and let the ball go over his head. Probably would have been into the end zone, but even if it hadn't it would have been downed for a snap to end the half.

TEAM play trumps Superstar play usually. Be smart and get back to TEAM play.

TheChamp24
12-19-2011, 08:45 AM
That was idiotic because even if he fields it, he'll get hit right away. Again, no need to even try to field the darn punt.

LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 08:53 AM
That was idiotic because even if he fields it, he'll get hit right away. Again, no need to even try to field the darn punt.

And thus proving my point..if there is no point in fielding it why even put someone back there? I don't get it

broncocalijohn
12-19-2011, 08:57 AM
well it was a screw up , But he was tryin to make something happen , wanting to contribute .... lets hope he learns his lesson

He doesnt just go back there to just "contribute for the team". He goes back there because the coach told him to go back there. Even if he was told to go back there, you are way inside the 20 so why try to catch it? The only logical chance is for him to run it back because there was no time on the clock to just go 35 yards and then set up a hail mary. Coaches should have known better and Cosby screwed up. That is exactly what happened and it cost the team 3 points and a crappy feeling going into the locker.

WolfpackGuy
12-19-2011, 08:59 AM
WTF was he even fielding it inside the 20?

DenverBroncosJM
12-19-2011, 09:01 AM
We should have royal do all the returns and have Willis take his snap on offense

Spider
12-19-2011, 09:02 AM
He doesnt just go back there to just "contribute for the team". He goes back there because the coach told him to go back there. Even if he was told to go back there, you are way inside the 20 so why try to catch it? The only logical chance is for him to run it back because there was no time on the clock to just go 35 yards and then set up a hail mary. Coaches should have known better and Cosby screwed up. That is exactly what happened and it cost the team 3 points and a crappy feeling going into the locker.

I said it was a ****ing Screw up .......wtf ???

ward63
12-19-2011, 09:08 AM
Can we just cut Cosby? If Royal is healthy, then go with him for punts and Willis or Royal for kickoffs. I'm sick of Cosby. He does nothing but return the ball to the 15 or take a knee in the endzone. Well, except this week, he did that and fumble....twice. Cut him and sign another defensive player.

Pony Boy
12-19-2011, 09:15 AM
Because there would be a "Why didin't we try to return the punt" thread ....

Crushaholic
12-19-2011, 09:18 AM
Can we just cut Cosby? If Royal is healthy, then go with him for punts and Willis or Royal for kickoffs. I'm sick of Cosby. He does nothing but return the ball to the 15 or take a knee in the endzone. Well, except this week, he did that and fumble....twice. Cut him and sign another defensive player.

It's clear that Royal doesn't fit in to the offensive gameplan. We should just make him a full-time returner...

canadianbroncosfan
12-19-2011, 09:18 AM
Because there would be a "Why didin't we try to return the punt" thread ....

Ha Ha Ha

LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 09:19 AM
It's clear that Royal doesn't fit in to the offensive gameplan. We should just make him a full-time returner...

I was thinking the same exact thing

BroncoBen
12-19-2011, 09:20 AM
Cosby shouldn't have tried to field it. You leave him back there in case they screw up the punt and kick it short, or low with no hang time. The coaching staff, and Cosby, should know/teach that you don't try catching that otherwise.

Yep, you tell Cosby not to field the ball just let it bounce.

This was a breakdown by the special teams coach, or even John Fox. Fox should be telling the special teams coach.. 'Let the ball bounce'.

canadianbroncosfan
12-19-2011, 09:23 AM
It's clear that Royal doesn't fit in to the offensive gameplan. We should just make him a full-time returner...

I'll third this. And the second should be Decker.

lolcopter
12-19-2011, 09:25 AM
We've been fielding entirely too many punts within the 10 for my liking

Don't know why our returners never try to fake the catch and let it sail

MplsBronco
12-19-2011, 10:05 AM
Yep, as bad of play as it was for Cosby, the coaches need to take some heat for that one. Go all out for the block, screw the return. That said, the guy has to field that ball. I don't want to see anymore of him to be honest. Royal on punts and Decker on KO's is what I want to see. I'll take our chances with injuries.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 11:12 AM
This is not a thread to talk about how bad a play it was by Cosby or bash the coaching staff. I just have a serious question and wanted to see if anyone might have an explanation.

Why would we even put someone back to return that punt with 3 seconds left in the half. The pats are punting from midfield so you know you aren't going to get a return. I can't think of one reason to even put someone back there in case they fumbled. Anyone know?

I actually looked at my dad after the third down stop and said "I wouldn't even put someone back there." CU did the same thing against Ohio State and fumbled with 5 seconds til halftime...gave them a field goal.

The thought could be that, if you don't have someone back there, the punt could roll and be downed inside the one. When that happens, you cant even kneel on it going into the half.

broncocalijohn
12-19-2011, 11:38 AM
I said it was a ****ing Screw up .......wtf ???

I was responding to your "he was trying to make something happen" part of your thread. I debunked it with my post.

Armchair Bronco
12-19-2011, 12:15 PM
This play was enabled by game time coaching blunders.

We should have had 11 guys on the line trying to block the punt. The fact that we didn't shows that Fox is not conservative but actually timid and conventional.

Fox gets the blame for handing over those 3 points.

jhns
12-19-2011, 12:18 PM
This play was enabled by game time coaching blunders.

We should have had 11 guys on the line trying to block the punt. The fact that we didn't shows that Fox is not conservative but actually timid and conventional.

Fox gets the blame for handing over those 3 points.

What team doesn't put a returner back there? I have never seen 11 guys rush a punt in my life.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 12:18 PM
This play was enabled by game time coaching blunders.

We should have had 11 guys on the line trying to block the punt. The fact that we didn't shows that Fox is not conservative but actually timid and conventional.

Fox gets the blame for handing over those 3 points.

I disagree. Having a guy back there lessens the likelihood that theyll down it inside the one. This would prevent a kneel down going into the half. All Cosby has to do is catch the ball.

ClamChowdah
12-19-2011, 12:18 PM
Braindead football

maher_tyler
12-19-2011, 12:23 PM
This is not a thread to talk about how bad a play it was by Cosby or bash the coaching staff. I just have a serious question and wanted to see if anyone might have an explanation.

Why would we even put someone back to return that punt with 3 seconds left in the half. The pats are punting from midfield so you know you aren't going to get a return. I can't think of one reason to even put someone back there in case they fumbled. Anyone know?

I actually looked at my dad after the third down stop and said "I wouldn't even put someone back there." CU did the same thing against Ohio State and fumbled with 5 seconds til halftime...gave them a field goal.

I was pretty pissed off after that happened. If I were Fox I'd prolly cut his ass. He hasn't done anything Royal couldn't have done. I hope they give full time return duties to Royal.

Drek
12-19-2011, 01:03 PM
Replacing Cosby as our return man is #3 on my "positions to fix in the off-season" wishlist. #1 is CB, #2 is DT, #3 is return man. Everywhere else we have some young guys with potential.

broncocalijohn
12-19-2011, 01:07 PM
I disagree. Having a guy back there lessens the likelihood that theyll down it inside the one. This would prevent a kneel down going into the half. All Cosby has to do is catch the ball.

Who cares?!?! If the ball is down at the one, the time probably ran out. What is safer, catching a punt or Tebow running it between the tackles for a 1/2 yard gain to end the half?

Shotgun Willie
12-19-2011, 01:10 PM
What team doesn't put a returner back there? I have never seen 11 guys rush a punt in my life.

I've seen plenty of instances of this. Granted, you still have to cover the gunners, so you're really only rushing 9...not 11 like the poster above mentioned. But the idea of not having an actual returner is not unheard of by any means. And this was the perfect scenario for this.

And for those worried about the ball stopping at the one yard line, I'd say that's far more unlikely a scenario than having a punt return for TD in that instance. And, even if it did, if we can't trust Tebow to simply throw the ball out of bounds or something to eat that whole three seconds left on the clock, then we don't deserve to win anyway.

maher_tyler
12-19-2011, 01:11 PM
Replacing Cosby as our return man is #3 on my "positions to fix in the off-season" wishlist. #1 is CB, #2 is DT, #3 is return man. Everywhere else we have some young guys with potential.

MLB is #2 on my list. If Irving can't beat out Mays at this point, he most likely is going to make his mark on STs and be the back up MLB

NYBronco
12-19-2011, 01:38 PM
Those mistakes are difficult to watch let alone understand but I just keep telling myself this team is a young and developing team.

jhns
12-19-2011, 01:41 PM
I've seen plenty of instances of this. Granted, you still have to cover the gunners, so you're really only rushing 9...not 11 like the poster above mentioned. But the idea of not having an actual returner is not unheard of by any means. And this was the perfect scenario for this.

And for those worried about the ball stopping at the one yard line, I'd say that's far more unlikely a scenario than having a punt return for TD in that instance. And, even if it did, if we can't trust Tebow to simply throw the ball out of bounds or something to eat that whole three seconds left on the clock, then we don't deserve to win anyway.

Do you have an example? That sounds pretty stupid to me. On plays like that, the returner is also playing deep safety. If no one is behind the guys rushing, they can call a fake and have a free run to the end zone.

broncocalijohn
12-19-2011, 01:43 PM
What team doesn't put a returner back there? I have never seen 11 guys rush a punt in my life.

You need to watch more football. End of game and end of half will have a ton of 9-10 on the line. You just need to cover their wideouts but going for the block or nothing (as in no return) happens a lot. Our coach just forgot to do it.

Shotgun Willie
12-19-2011, 01:49 PM
Do you have an example? That sounds pretty stupid to me. On plays like that, the returner is also playing deep safety. If no one is behind the guys rushing, they can call a fake and have a free run to the end zone.

If someone gets behind all the rushers on a regular punt where the usual allocation of defensive guys rush, then that one returner 40-50 yds away isn't going to be able to do a damn thing to stop them anyway.

jhns
12-19-2011, 01:54 PM
If someone gets behind all the rushers on a regular punt where the usual allocation of defensive guys rush, then that one returner 40-50 yds away isn't going to be able to do a damn thing to stop them anyway.

Riiight.

So no examples?

LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 01:56 PM
The thought could be that, if you don't have someone back there, the punt could roll and be downed inside the one. When that happens, you cant even kneel on it going into the half.

Again, odds of that happening are less than the odds of a fumble. Even if they down us on the one we can get in the shotgun and throw a pass out of bounds...or QB sneak it.

Shotgun Willie
12-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Riiight.

So no examples?

Ummm, ok. How on Earth could I give an example of this?

youtube isn't exactly brimming with examples of videos of punts that don't get returned.

And nfl.com doesn't indicate whether a punt return team didn't field a returner.

There's literally no way to provide any examples of this unless you catch it live. And because you only pretend to watch football, you're out of luck I guess.

LetsGoBroncos
12-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Who cares?!?! If the ball is down at the one, the time probably ran out. What is safer, catching a punt or Tebow running it between the tackles for a 1/2 yard gain to end the half?

Good point...time probably would have ran out. You're right

jhns
12-19-2011, 01:59 PM
Ummm, ok. How on Earth could I give an example of this.

youtube isn't exactly brimming with examples of videos of punts that don't get returned.

And nfl.com doesn't indicate whether a punt return team didn't field a returner.

There's literally no way to provide any examples of this unless you catch it live. And because you only pretend to watch football, you're out of luck I guess.

How can you not remember a time that it happened as you tell me that you have seen it happen? It isn't like you said you saw it once... You saw it "pleanty" of times.

I would love to go see how they do it. I can find breakdowns if you find me an example.

Shotgun Willie
12-19-2011, 02:03 PM
How can you not remember a time that it happened as you tell me that you have seen it happen? It isn't like you said you saw it once... You saw it "pleanty" of times.

So, every single thing in your life that you've seen, you can recall exactly when you saw them?

I've seen defensive players line up with the offense as "tackle eligible" players on the goal line in several games and score TDs. Mike Vrabel has made a living doing this. But there's no way I could tell you with any certainty what games those happened in off the top of my head. (Granted, TDs are searchable stats, so I could find out if given some time to research it. Punt returns with no returners on the field are not searchable events however.)

jhns
12-19-2011, 02:08 PM
So, every single thing in your life that you've seen, you can recall exactly when you saw them?

I've seen defensive players line up with the offense as "tackle eligible" players on the goal line in several games and score TDs. Mike Vrabel has made a living doing this. But there's no way I could tell you with any certainty what games those happened in off the top of my head. (Granted, TDs are searchable stats, so I could find out if given some time to research it. Punt returns with no returners on the field are not searchable events however.)

I can give you examples of everything I have seen pleanty of.

Can you give me a team that does this at least? Anything to go off of? I am googleing and getting nowhere.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 02:39 PM
Who cares?!?! If the ball is down at the one, the time probably ran out. What is safer, catching a punt or Tebow running it between the tackles for a 1/2 yard gain to end the half?

Catching a punt. Condisder too that Fox had already seen Paxton f*ck up a snap on the extra point.

broncocalijohn
12-19-2011, 04:45 PM
Catching a punt. Condisder too that Fox had already seen Paxton **** up a snap on the extra point.

Paxton isnt the regular snapper for plays and handing off a ball between the legs is pretty much easy money for a QB to get the handoff. I can guarantee you that catching a punt is much more vulnerable to a fumble then to take a snap. Don't be a brick and realize that you were wrong. Touching that punt that far back with less than 10 seconds was moronic. If it rolled to the one, time runs out.

gyldenlove
12-19-2011, 04:54 PM
This is not a thread to talk about how bad a play it was by Cosby or bash the coaching staff. I just have a serious question and wanted to see if anyone might have an explanation.

Why would we even put someone back to return that punt with 3 seconds left in the half. The pats are punting from midfield so you know you aren't going to get a return. I can't think of one reason to even put someone back there in case they fumbled. Anyone know?

I actually looked at my dad after the third down stop and said "I wouldn't even put someone back there." CU did the same thing against Ohio State and fumbled with 5 seconds til halftime...gave them a field goal.

I agree in princible there is no reason to put anyone more than 10 yards behind the line since you really just have to stop any fake plays.

Looking at it conservatively I think it is easier just to send out your normal punt team rather than replacing the returner with a safety and hoping everything goes smoothly, ultimately there is no reason to ever try to catch that ball no matter where it falls and Cosby should have known that.

OrangeSe7en
12-19-2011, 05:09 PM
Paxton isnt the regular snapper for plays and handing off a ball between the legs is pretty much easy money for a QB to get the handoff. I can guarantee you that catching a punt is much more vulnerable to a fumble then to take a snap. Don't be a brick and realize that you were wrong. Touching that punt that far back with less than 10 seconds was moronic. If it rolled to the one, time runs out.

I didn't bring up Paxton's name to suggest Tebow would be taking snaps from him, genius. The point is that seeing Paxtons **** up underscores a legitimate concern. On a fair catch, all you really need to do is waive your arm in the air and it should be easy.