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Popps
12-18-2011, 05:01 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead. Certainly, we had major O/ST miscues, but I think I only counted 1 defensive stop before the half? (I could be off on that but it wasn't many.)

This just had the feel of so many big-game losses in the past decade or so.

So, the question is... does the staff do it right this time? Was it obvious enough today that we couldn't dictate the game with our defense? Was it obvious enough that we don't have the offense to stay in high-scoring shoot-outs against HOF QBs?

Or, could the staff possibly look at this game and say... "now you see, we just need to find the next Tom Brady and build the team around HIM."

Whichever it is, I guarantee you that today will be one of if not the biggest game that the staff looks at when deciding how to approach next season.
There was a ton of information to take in... it just depends how you interpret it. Of course, there is a lot of season to play and hopefully we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves in many more big games. But, I just feel like today was a turning point.

What do you think?

Personally, I'm all in with Tebow and this offense. I think he showed a lot today, despite being bottled up for much of the game. He's consistently improving as a passer and has big game moxie when the whole team shows up. But, it's similar to past situations we've been in where you're going to have to build a team around him... specifically around him. He needs things in place to be successful. He's not Brady/Manning. So, the staff is going to have to recognize that, and go all in to put the structure around him to be successful in games like this. If I'm making the call... I do just that. But, today was a rough game. No telling how the FO will interpret it.

Pontius Pirate
12-18-2011, 05:02 PM
This game won't dictate our future because:

1) You can't measure Tim Tebow in stats and
2) See point #1
3) Tim Tebow

theAPAOps5
12-18-2011, 05:03 PM
I think what happen was probably not a surprise to most. This team won't curl up and die like so many Shanny teams. They have a long way to go. But the leaps and bounds they made this season is very pleasing.

It has and will be a blast for however long this season lasts.

Armchair Bronco
12-18-2011, 05:03 PM
Tebow played well today.

The fixable problems were on the D-Line and the Secondary. We need to use some higher picks in those areas. We also need more depth @ RB and some backup QB's, but we can pick up those players in later rounds.

I also think the Defensive playcalling was really tentative and uninspired.

oubronco
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
This game won't dictate our future because:

1) You can't measure Tim Tebow in stats and
2) See point #1
3) Tim Tebow

Dude it was funny about the first 2-3 times you did it to agamemdon or whatever his name is but it's not funny and pretty classless now

Vine
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
Despite the loss, I think that Tebow showed some things that will further solidify the case of him being named the starting qb going into next season.

DB-Freak
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead. Certainly, we had major O/ST miscues, but I think I only counted 1 defensive stop before the half? (I could be off on that but it wasn't many.)

This just had the feel of so many big-game losses in the past decade or so.

So, the question is... does the staff do it right this time? Was it obvious enough today that we couldn't dictate the game with our defense? Was it obvious enough that we don't have the offense to stay in high-scoring shoot-outs against HOF QBs?

Or, could the staff possibly look at this game and say... "now you see, we just need to find the next Tom Brady and build the team around HIM."

Whichever it is, I guarantee you that today will be one of if not the biggest game that the staff looks at when deciding how to approach next season.
There was a ton of information to take in... it just depends how you interpret it. Of course, there is a lot of season to play and hopefully we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves in many more big games. But, I just feel like today was a turning point.

What do you think?

Personally, I'm all in with Tebow and this offense. I think he showed a lot today, despite being bottled up for much of the game. He's consistently improving as a passer and has big game moxie when the whole team shows up. But, it's similar to past situations we've been in where you're going to have to build a team around him... specifically around him. He needs things in place to be successful. He's not Brady/Manning. So, the staff is going to have to recognize that, and go all in to put the structure around him to be successful in games like this. If I'm making the call... I do just that. But, today was a rough game. No telling how the FO will interpret it.

There will be major retooling of the secondary. Our secondary is a huge gaping hole. The nickel and dime packages simply can not hold up due to the safeties and lack of CB depth.

Rohirrim
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
No. Our secondary sucks. We have to go out and get better players.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
I dont think it dictates our future, really. If we make the playoffs, i think they have to stay the course.

If we epically collapse, i fear next off season in denver.

Popps
12-18-2011, 05:05 PM
... and "turning point" was probably the wrong phrase to use. I don't think we're any worse after today's game. In fact, it may be a nice kick in the ass.

Spider
12-18-2011, 05:06 PM
The Real question is , Will Tebow Become Tony Romo ? I dont think so ..... I still think Tebow will be or surpass Elway ... Kid is rock solid

Popps
12-18-2011, 05:06 PM
I dont think it dictates our future, really. If we make the playoffs, i think they have to stay the course.

If we epically collapse, i fear next off season in denver.

So, if we make the playoffs... and lose by 17 points to Pittsburgh, for example... in a similar style game. I'm not sure the overall picture is much different than it is today.

Anyway, you're right in a sense... if things go dramatically one way or another from here, certainly the view could change. I just have a feeling this is the game they'll be watching over and over this offseason.

bronco militia
12-18-2011, 05:07 PM
yeah, I didn't see this team curl up and die like the the last 4 years. Some areas were exposed to injuries and a lack of talent: The OL and Secondary are still my major concerns.

I do see is a QB getting better every week.

Ironlung
12-18-2011, 05:08 PM
This game won't dictate our future because:

1) You can't measure Tim Tebow in stats and
2) See point #1
3) Tim Tebow

WOO hOO!! He's pumped folks!! We lost!

Inkana7
12-18-2011, 05:08 PM
I mean, this still isn't a very good team, talent-wise. They've just been playing smart and tough the past few weeks. This game just shows how much more talent we really need, especially on the defensive side.

barryr
12-18-2011, 05:08 PM
If the defense plays like that again, then they will have problems. For me, I would rather lose now anyway since if you keep winning like they were, eventually they were bound to lose at some point. Better to get that loss out of the way and get back on track.

The Bills will throw the ball a lot and seeing how the pass defense was today, I imagine they will put the ball up a lot next week. The pass rush needs to get it together, especially since the Bill o-line is not a strength.

Pontius Pirate
12-18-2011, 05:09 PM
Dude it was funny about the first 2-3 times you did it to agamemdon or whatever his name is but it's not funny and pretty classless now

LOL it's "classless"

I'm sorry, I'm really bringing the "class" level down on the OM.....say, nice picture of John Elway's fat ass in a swimsuit smoking a cigarette.

CLASS!

LOLOLOTROLOLOLOL

DB-Freak
12-18-2011, 05:09 PM
Tim Tebow reminds me of Plummer.........

on Steroids with much less mental miscues.

I think we can win with this guy.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-18-2011, 05:09 PM
So, if we make the playoffs... and lose by 17 points to Pittsburgh, for example... in a similar style game. I'm not sure the overall picture is much different than it is today.

Anyway, you're right in a sense... if things go dramatically one way or another from here, certainly the view could change. I just have a feeling this is the game they'll be watching over and over this offseason.

I think even if we lose to Pitt by 17 in the playoffs, the front office wont have the political capital to make a change at QB. How can you really justify that decision considering we havent made the playoffs since 05?

Also, if they watch this game over and over, i think they'll realize QB wasnt the biggest problem today.

Bronx33
12-18-2011, 05:09 PM
no

Inkana7
12-18-2011, 05:10 PM
If the defense plays like that again, then they will have problems. For me, I would rather lose now anyway since if you keep winning like they were, eventually they were bound to lose at some point. Better to get that loss out of the way and get back on track.

The Bills will throw the ball a lot and seeing how the pass defense was today, I imagine they will put the ball up a lot next week. The pass rush needs to get it together, especially since the Bill o-line is not a strength.

Bills O-Line have allowed the least sacks in the league.

BroncoBen
12-18-2011, 05:10 PM
... and "turning point" was probably the wrong phrase to use. I don't think we're any worse after today's game. In fact, it may be a nice kick in the ass.

Agreed.. out of these last 3 games this was the game they could afford to loose. The Raiders loss was just icing on the cake.. now the Chargers need to lose.

SonOfLe-loLang
12-18-2011, 05:12 PM
If the defense plays like that again, then they will have problems. For me, I would rather lose now anyway since if you keep winning like they were, eventually they were bound to lose at some point. Better to get that loss out of the way and get back on track.

The Bills will throw the ball a lot and seeing how the pass defense was today, I imagine they will put the ball up a lot next week. The pass rush needs to get it together, especially since the Bill o-line is not a strength.

Apples and oranges. We wont defense them the same.

barryr
12-18-2011, 05:13 PM
Bills O-Line have allowed the least sacks in the league.

You can name one of them?

barryr
12-18-2011, 05:13 PM
Apples and oranges. We wont defense them the same.

Let's hope not.

Inkana7
12-18-2011, 05:14 PM
You can name one of them?

Does it matter? They've allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL! Obviously they're doing something right.

barryr
12-18-2011, 05:17 PM
Does it matter? They've allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL! Obviously they're doing something right.

Quick passes is one way, just as the Pats do helps. Again, the Bill o-line is a bunch of no names.

DrFate
12-18-2011, 05:18 PM
The secondary isnt solid enough when the rush isnt there

And this team has no playmakers at the skill positions - look what hernandez and gronkowski did with the ball.

Team needs to improve at wr, te, rb, dl, corner, and safety (not necessarily in that order)

ScottXray
12-18-2011, 05:20 PM
This game just points out that they need to beef up the secondary and RB corps and LBs. Our own mistakes led to the large margin of victory , but the defense never stopped NE all day, and that is not on the Offense.

Cosby shat the bed , and was pulled too late. He hurt us on Special teams.
How many times did Simms mention that Tebow had no one open to throw it to, and made the right decision to dirt it or throw it away.

If anything this game showed that we HAVE the QBOTF on this team right now, and that the rest of the team needs a lot of work to be a premier team. If I were to use this game as the example of the teams direction for the future Qb is the postion I would feel we DON'T have a problem with!

barryr
12-18-2011, 05:20 PM
The secondary isnt solid enough when the rush isnt there

And this team has no playmakers at the skill positions - look what hernandez and gronkowski did with the ball.

Team needs to improve at wr, te, rb, dl, corner, and safety (not necessarily in that order)

Which is why I have been advocating the Broncos will likely need to trade down and get some extra picks since they do lack playmakers. More speed at WR, RB, and CB is sorely needed and gets shown more when they play against the better teams.

RhymesayersDU
12-18-2011, 05:23 PM
Every quarter except #2 we played pretty even with them. I mean, how many times will we ever turn the ball over 3 times in 1 quarter?

I don't care who is playing QB, you do that, you lose.

Mouth
12-18-2011, 05:25 PM
Every quarter except #2 we played pretty even with them. I mean, how many times will we ever turn the ball over 3 times in 1 quarter?

I don't care who is playing QB, you do that, you lose.

QFT. 3 TO's killed us. As much as I hate to say this, Fox-ball would have won us this game. After this game, I'm stating to believe that Fox is Coach of the Year.

Mouth

MortonToMoses
12-18-2011, 05:31 PM
I don't think this game means that much for the future, I wanted to see how this team measured up against an elite team. I thnk we found out that there's still a lot of improvement needed on both sides of the ball, but how many people really believed that we had a shot at the division this year? Next year's draft is going to test the front office. Picking in the twenties is a lot tougher than picking second.

The Moops
12-18-2011, 06:06 PM
Think back when we were 1-4. If you said we would go 7-2 and be a game ahead for AFC West title with 2 to play, you would think we were on Sam Hurd's client list. Pats game was winnable but 3 straight turnovers doomed us. We Win remaining 2 games wear are in. That simple.

Mouth
12-18-2011, 06:08 PM
At this point, only the KC game matters. If we win against KC we win the division. We need either an OAK loss in the next 2 games OR a win against KC.

Mouth

theAPAOps5
12-18-2011, 06:09 PM
At this point, only the KC game matters. If we win against KC we win the division. We need either an OAK loss in the next 2 games OR a win against KC.

Mouth

Or just win out and who cares what the rest do!

Mouth
12-18-2011, 06:10 PM
Or just win out and who cares what the rest do!

lol, true, but no matter what, we only have to beat KC. Of course I would prefer to win out, but the KC game is the only one that COULD matter.

Mouth

bloodsunday
12-18-2011, 06:15 PM
Tebow has earned the right to continue as QB. You need to find complimentary offensive players and keep building the D.

razorwire77
12-18-2011, 06:16 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead.

I think this is an overly simplistic view of what happened. Tom Brady isn't just a highly effective QB, he's 1A or 1B of the best quarterbacks in football. I thought the defense played hard, and at times in the second half the defense got decent pressure on Brady. The two turnovers in 4 plays and 6 plays total in the 2nd quarter are what killed this team. Could the defensive have played better? Absolutely. But the momentum killer was giving Brady that short field.

myMind
12-18-2011, 06:17 PM
LOL it's "classless"

I'm sorry, I'm really bringing the "class" level down on the OM.....say, nice picture of John Elway's fat ass in a swimsuit smoking a cigarette.

CLASS!

LOLOLOTROLOLOLOL

Your definitely not improving the site at all.
Think of it this way, if you never posted on the OM a lot of peoples lives would be better off because they dont waste time reading your redundant, imbecile, and pointless contributions.

spdirty
12-18-2011, 06:17 PM
No. Our secondary sucks. We have to go out and get better players.

yep.

t-diddy
12-18-2011, 06:17 PM
I hope they respond to this loss the same way they did to the Detroit loss....

vonqkilla
12-18-2011, 06:19 PM
Ill have I update on locker room psyche this week, but I think we will put this behind us and move on quickly. Rahim Moore and Carter need work...

CEH
12-18-2011, 06:19 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead. Certainly, we had major O/ST miscues, but I think I only counted 1 defensive stop before the half? (I could be off on that but it wasn't many.)

This just had the feel of so many big-game losses in the past decade or so.

So, the question is... does the staff do it right this time? Was it obvious enough today that we couldn't dictate the game with our defense? Was it obvious enough that we don't have the offense to stay in high-scoring shoot-outs against HOF QBs?

Or, could the staff possibly look at this game and say... "now you see, we just need to find the next Tom Brady and build the team around HIM."

Whichever it is, I guarantee you that today will be one of if not the biggest game that the staff looks at when deciding how to approach next season.
There was a ton of information to take in... it just depends how you interpret it. Of course, there is a lot of season to play and hopefully we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves in many more big games. But, I just feel like today was a turning point.

What do you think?

Personally, I'm all in with Tebow and this offense. I think he showed a lot today, despite being bottled up for much of the game. He's consistently improving as a passer and has big game moxie when the whole team shows up. But, it's similar to past situations we've been in where you're going to have to build a team around him... specifically around him. He needs things in place to be successful. He's not Brady/Manning. So, the staff is going to have to recognize that, and go all in to put the structure around him to be successful in games like this. If I'm making the call... I do just that. But, today was a rough game. No telling how the FO will interpret it.

If the turnovers were even I will play NE every day. You can't give a team like NE the ball 3 times in plus territory and expect to win. The penalty on Ayers and the Crosby fumble were huge self inflicted plays. I bet this is a 7 point game heading into the 4th had those two things not happened. I count 20 points on the 3 turnovers and the penality

KevinJames
12-18-2011, 06:32 PM
No it won't dictate our future. We could have beaten the Patriots we shot ourselves in the foot you can't give a good team 3 turnovers you just can't.

We also won't run into another team that has match up problems like NE Patriots have.

Popps
12-18-2011, 06:55 PM
No it won't dictate our future. We could have beaten the Patriots we shot ourselves in the foot you can't give a good team 3 turnovers you just can't.

We also won't run into another team that has match up problems like NE Patriots have.

No, but the road to the SB will go through them for at least another year.

Clearly, you can't turn the ball over against a team like this. But, you also can't allow a team to score on every single offensive possession.

Again, the question is... will the staff/FO take away the idea that we need to look more like NE... or do we need to hone our defense to stop modern passing offenses?

Seems like a slam-dunk but you can just never be sure.

errand
12-18-2011, 06:57 PM
first off, the turnovers killed us...if you give a good team that many more chances they will beat you every time.

we obviously need somebody that can play over the tight end and stop them from making our D lick a cat's ass.

we also need play making safeties.... makes me long for the days of atwater and smith roaming back there. Dawkins is getting long in the tooth....and nobody else scares opposing OC's

I think Tebow has earned the right to be our starting quarterback next year, Thomas seems to developing into the player we hoped he would, so we have to address our defensive deficiencies....

I said all along I just want to see improvement in the team... we've proven we can beat up the weaklings.... we need to improve the talent on this team so we can go after the big boys.

missed tackles, and losing the turnover battle will never win in this league. the good news is we could afford to lose this 1 game

edog24
12-18-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't think this game matters much in the grand scheme of things. It showed us that we are who I thought we were, an average to maybe above average team. Our talent level is below average borderline worst in the league, but Tebow and Miller have them playing at a level way above their talent level.

Against elite teams we get steamrolled, it wasn't that suprising today. We need to tune it up because we are more than likely facing a tough team in the first round.

Dedhed
12-18-2011, 07:12 PM
I think it shows that if we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with TOs we can play ANY team in the league tough.

And that Goodman sucks.

gunns
12-18-2011, 07:12 PM
I've been impressed with our defense but knew we hadn't played stout offenses. I think what has been the case since the start of the season, we need to add to the defense. If our D becomes one to fear we've done the offense a huge favor. I was very impressed with Tebow, especially when he was going down in the end zone, fumbled the ball but did not give up on the play and avoided a safety. My biggest disappointment was Tebow's face at the end of the game. Dude, it happens, learn from it and come pumped for next week. Don't lose that edge.

Mouth
12-18-2011, 07:26 PM
I've been impressed with our defense but knew we hadn't played stout offenses. I think what has been the case since the start of the season, we need to add to the defense. If our D becomes one to fear we've done the offense a huge favor. I was very impressed with Tebow, especially when he was going down in the end zone, fumbled the ball but did not give up on the play and avoided a safety. My biggest disappointment was Tebow's face at the end of the game. Dude, it happens, learn from it and come pumped for next week. Don't lose that edge.

I don't think that's something you have to worry about with TT. I think he was disappointed in himself for the fumble more than anything else.

Mouth

errand
12-18-2011, 07:33 PM
I do know this though... if we ever did you make it to the superbowl with tim as our quarterback, we will win it.

MacGruder
12-18-2011, 07:42 PM
I think just having a great running back and a tad better defense could be the answer. If McGahee isn't injured what happens in that game? McGahee was injured in the Lions game too.

I also think Fox could be the problem.. he just isn't a very good coach. But there's likely no way of getting rid of him.. his players might love him but I just get the impression he will NEVER win big games against better coaches. He is supposed o be a defensive coach and he brought a big bag of nothing to this game.. I can't ever see him beating Bellichcik and I bet he ends up throwing Tebow under the bus because of his own shortcomings..

Old Dude
12-18-2011, 07:46 PM
I think the Broncos had the right idea - slowing down the game and ramming the ball right down NE's throat.

Unfortunately, too many young players were pushing too hard to make big plays, the errors snowballed, and the Pats got control of the tempo and made us play their game.

Certainly, we have a lot of areas that need improvement. Some of it should come along with experience. In other cases, they'll have to add new people. (And our depth still sucks at several spots.)

Still, 8-6 at this point in the season is better than anyone had any right to expect, and they'll add to their wins before the season is done.

epicSocialism4tw
12-18-2011, 08:23 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead. Certainly, we had major O/ST miscues, but I think I only counted 1 defensive stop before the half? (I could be off on that but it wasn't many.)

This just had the feel of so many big-game losses in the past decade or so.

So, the question is... does the staff do it right this time? Was it obvious enough today that we couldn't dictate the game with our defense? Was it obvious enough that we don't have the offense to stay in high-scoring shoot-outs against HOF QBs?

Or, could the staff possibly look at this game and say... "now you see, we just need to find the next Tom Brady and build the team around HIM."

Whichever it is, I guarantee you that today will be one of if not the biggest game that the staff looks at when deciding how to approach next season.
There was a ton of information to take in... it just depends how you interpret it. Of course, there is a lot of season to play and hopefully we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves in many more big games. But, I just feel like today was a turning point.

What do you think?

Personally, I'm all in with Tebow and this offense. I think he showed a lot today, despite being bottled up for much of the game. He's consistently improving as a passer and has big game moxie when the whole team shows up. But, it's similar to past situations we've been in where you're going to have to build a team around him... specifically around him. He needs things in place to be successful. He's not Brady/Manning. So, the staff is going to have to recognize that, and go all in to put the structure around him to be successful in games like this. If I'm making the call... I do just that. But, today was a rough game. No telling how the FO will interpret it.

We're right back where we were with those Jake Plummer teams.

You and I rattled on and on for years about the problems that this team has had in shoring up the defensive front 7. At some point you have to invest in it if you want a defense that can carry you past teams like New England. Hopefully these guys see that...Elway has talked about bringing that defense back to Denver, so we'll see how serious they are about it this offseason. They'll have a full offseason to acquire free agents and prepare to draft.

This team has some glaring holes. I'd rank them as follows:

1 CB
2 RB
3 MLB
4 DT
5 OT/OG
6 S

Rohirrim
12-18-2011, 08:26 PM
One thing I learned from this game today watching Herndandez and Gronk (actually, I already knew it), it sure would be nice to have one of those big, fast TEs. There are a couple of really good ones coming out in this draft. It would be a smart thing to have one of those big targets so that when Tim comes out of a scramble he has somebody to throw to.

epicSocialism4tw
12-18-2011, 08:28 PM
This game just points out that they need to beef up the secondary and RB corps and LBs. Our own mistakes led to the large margin of victory , but the defense never stopped NE all day, and that is not on the Offense.

Cosby shat the bed , and was pulled too late. He hurt us on Special teams.
How many times did Simms mention that Tebow had no one open to throw it to, and made the right decision to dirt it or throw it away.

If anything this game showed that we HAVE the QBOTF on this team right now, and that the rest of the team needs a lot of work to be a premier team. If I were to use this game as the example of the teams direction for the future Qb is the postion I would feel we DON'T have a problem with!

Yeah, I think that Tebow and Demaryius are growing weekly and could be formidable this time next season.

This team has a lot of holes to fill. Fortunately, QB is not one of them.

Rascal
12-18-2011, 08:32 PM
We're right back where we were with those Jake Plummer teams.

You and I rattled on and on for years about the problems that this team has had in shoring up the defensive front 7. At some point you have to invest in it if you want a defense that can carry you past teams like New England. Hopefully these guys see that...Elway has talked about bringing that defense back to Denver, so we'll see how serious they are about it this offseason. They'll have a full offseason to acquire free agents and prepare to draft.

This team has some glaring holes. I'd rank them as follows:

1 CB
2 RB
3 MLB
4 DT
5 OT/OG
6 S

This was one of the worst defenses ever last year, so let's give them some credit.

CB---Goodman sucks and Champ is getting old. Can we get Alphonso Smith back please?
RB---Agreed, fortunately incredibly easy to fill.
MLB--- I am disappointed that Irving isn't playing MLB. I thought he would be the future, but that might have been incorrect.
DT---Thomas and Bunkley have played well, but they are average and there isn't much else there. More depth needed.
OT/OG---they are young, but a minor hole IMO. Best way to improve would be to move Franklin to LG, and draft a a RT but that requires a high draft pick and I'd rather address other positions.
S---Moore is the future FS, IMO. I wonder if Harris can be moved to SS??? Also wonder if Champ will be moved to safety in future years...might make CB more pressing of a need.

Rascal
12-18-2011, 08:33 PM
One thing I learned from this game today watching Herndandez and Gronk (actually, I already knew it), it sure would be nice to have one of those big, fast TEs. There are a couple of really good ones coming out in this draft. It would be a smart thing to have one of those big targets so that when Tim comes out of a scramble he has somebody to throw to.

Our TEs were invisble.

Tombstone RJ
12-18-2011, 08:35 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead. Certainly, we had major O/ST miscues, but I think I only counted 1 defensive stop before the half? (I could be off on that but it wasn't many.)

This just had the feel of so many big-game losses in the past decade or so.

So, the question is... does the staff do it right this time? Was it obvious enough today that we couldn't dictate the game with our defense? Was it obvious enough that we don't have the offense to stay in high-scoring shoot-outs against HOF QBs?

Or, could the staff possibly look at this game and say... "now you see, we just need to find the next Tom Brady and build the team around HIM."

Whichever it is, I guarantee you that today will be one of if not the biggest game that the staff looks at when deciding how to approach next season.
There was a ton of information to take in... it just depends how you interpret it. Of course, there is a lot of season to play and hopefully we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves in many more big games. But, I just feel like today was a turning point.

What do you think?

Personally, I'm all in with Tebow and this offense. I think he showed a lot today, despite being bottled up for much of the game. He's consistently improving as a passer and has big game moxie when the whole team shows up. But, it's similar to past situations we've been in where you're going to have to build a team around him... specifically around him. He needs things in place to be successful. He's not Brady/Manning. So, the staff is going to have to recognize that, and go all in to put the structure around him to be successful in games like this. If I'm making the call... I do just that. But, today was a rough game. No telling how the FO will interpret it.

I think two lost fumbles inside your own 20 spells points for the pats. Couple that with another turnover right before half which allows for 3 more points and the hole is pretty deep.

I'm not too concerned, the Broncos turned the ball over and that in and of itself is very uncharacteristic of this team. They are 7-2 in their last 9 games which is great. They need to regroup and finish the season strong.

yerner
12-18-2011, 08:37 PM
One thing I learned from this game today watching Herndandez and Gronk (actually, I already knew it), it sure would be nice to have one of those big, fast TEs. There are a couple of really good ones coming out in this draft. It would be a smart thing to have one of those big targets so that when Tim comes out of a scramble he has somebody to throw to.

Said the same thing today when I was watching the game and saw Todd Heap making some nice catches. Too bad the broncos didn't get that scum devil. He would help tebow out a ton.

fdf
12-18-2011, 08:40 PM
I think what happen was probably not a surprise to most. This team won't curl up and die like so many Shanny teams. They have a long way to go. But the leaps and bounds they made this season is very pleasing.

It has and will be a blast for however long this season lasts.

Did anyone really expect this team to be able to play with elite teams by this point? I think it's great we've gotten to the point where we can beat bad and average teams. Being an average team is huge progress.

I hope the D can get to the point where it can make a credible showing against the Mannings, the Bradys, the Rogers etc. Obviously, we are quite a way from being at that point. This D reminds me of the Shanahan era games where we would be ahead of Indy by two touchdown with 10 minutes left and suddenly every colt receiver was open every play with noone within ten yards of them when they made the catch. It was pretty much that way the whole game today. It's been 12 years since Denver was able to challenge a good intermediate passing game when the game meant anything. Maybe that will start to change next year.

lonestar
12-18-2011, 08:41 PM
There will be major retooling of the secondary. Our secondary is a huge gaping hole. The nickel and dime packages simply can not hold up due to the safeties and lack of CB depth.

Depth at CB hell the depth is better than #21 at coverage.. might as well have stayed near the LOS on that first TD pass to 85.

epicSocialism4tw
12-18-2011, 08:42 PM
This was one of the worst defenses ever last year, so let's give them some credit.

CB---Goodman sucks and Champ is getting old. Can we get Alphonso Smith back please?
RB---Agreed, fortunately incredibly easy to fill.
MLB--- I am disappointed that Irving isn't playing MLB. I thought he would be the future, but that might have been incorrect.
DT---Thomas and Bunkley have played well, but they are average and there isn't much else there. More depth needed.
OT/OG---they are young, but a minor hole IMO. Best way to improve would be to move Franklin to LG, and draft a a RT but that requires a high draft pick and I'd rather address other positions.
S---Moore is the future FS, IMO. I wonder if Harris can be moved to SS??? Also wonder if Champ will be moved to safety in future years...might make CB more pressing of a need.

McGahee is nice, but he's just too old and injury prone to be counted on. The Broncos need to pair him with a Percy Harvin type and an every-down back. We could really use a Marshall Faulk/Tomilinson type of back.

At DT, we need a real stud. We have some above average types, but we need that rock who refuses to be moved.

We also need a stud MLB and another stud CB.

This team is really talent-thin, but then again we are below the mandated cap minimum. Management didnt spend money on the team this season.

Rohirrim
12-18-2011, 08:43 PM
Said the same thing today when I was watching the game and saw Todd Heap making some nice catches. Too bad the broncos didn't get that scum devil. He would help tebow out a ton.

I've always heard that one of the cardinal rules of football is to give a young QB a TE he can rely on. Tebow hasn't had that. Coby Fleener is a great all around TE, and at 6'6" and 250, he would present the kind of big target that makes a young QB comfortable.

Rascal
12-18-2011, 08:45 PM
McGahee is nice, but he's just too old and injury prone to be counted on. The Broncos need to pair him with a Percy Harvin type and an every-down back. We could really use a Marshall Faulk/Tomilinson type of back.

At DT, we need a real stud. We have some above average types, but we need that rock who refuses to be moved.

We also need a stud MLB and another stud CB.

This team is really talent-thin, but then again we are below the mandated cap minimum. Management didnt spend money on the team this season.

I don't blame them. Noway you could have convinced me that this team would be 8-6 and in first place in our division. I'd rather address the depth problems thru the draft than FA anyway. We found some real gems this year, Chris Harris for example, and if we had spent that money on FAs we probably would have stunted that growth.

Tombstone RJ
12-18-2011, 08:46 PM
The Broncos still need an infusion of talent along the defensive line, period. How many times was Brady sacked again? The whole key to the game was pressuring Brady and the Broncos didn't do that very well, at least not in the first half.

Rascal
12-18-2011, 08:49 PM
I've always heard that one of the cardinal rules of football is to give a young QB a TE he can rely on. Tebow hasn't had that. Coby Fleener is a great all around TE, and at 6'6" and 250, he would present the kind of big target that makes a young QB comfortable.

I like Fleener, but after spending two draft picks at TE last year I'd be suprised if we draft another one.

NFLBRONCO
12-18-2011, 08:50 PM
yeah, I didn't see this team curl up and die like the the last 4 years. Some areas were exposed to injuries and a lack of talent: The OL and Secondary are still my major concerns.

I do see is a QB getting better every week.

Yep

Rohirrim
12-18-2011, 08:54 PM
I like Fleener, but after spending two draft picks at TE last year I'd be suprised if we draft another one.

Yeah, but that was 4th and 7th round picks. I think they need a major upgrade at the position. Look at what the premier TEs are doing around the league these days? It's become a much more important position than it used to be.

Taco John
12-18-2011, 08:54 PM
If after looking at this game Elway and the front office come to the conclusion that we need to reinvest in the quarterback position, we're in a lot of trouble. What this game showed us is that we have a lot of work to do still on defense. Tebow and D. Thomas look like they could be a very promising connection for the future. Decker looks solid as well. Add a gadget WR, and maybe upgrade left guard and maybe bring in Hillis (not even kidding, given the price is right), and use every resource we have after that to upgrade the MLB and secondary positions.

Tombstone RJ
12-18-2011, 08:55 PM
I've always heard that one of the cardinal rules of football is to give a young QB a TE he can rely on. Tebow hasn't had that. Coby Fleener is a great all around TE, and at 6'6" and 250, he would present the kind of big target that makes a young QB comfortable.

The Broncos have two rookie TE's in Thomas and Green, both are getting playing time. I'm not worried about the TE position...

epicSocialism4tw
12-18-2011, 09:06 PM
If after looking at this game Elway and the front office come to the conclusion that we need to reinvest in the quarterback position, we're in a lot of trouble. What this game showed us is that we have a lot of work to do still on defense. Tebow and D. Thomas look like they could be a very promising connection for the future. Decker looks solid as well. Add a gadget WR, and maybe upgrade left guard and maybe bring in Hillis (not even kidding, given the price is right), and use every resource we have after that to upgrade the MLB and secondary positions.

We have so many holes that we have a swath of players to choose from at the intersection of "best player available" and "position of need". This draft should be productive.

I agree about Hillis. That would be a good pair with McGahee. Hillis + Willis. Hillis is a tough runner and can catch the ball. Plus, the Tebow + Hillis combination in the backfield could be such a conflagration that it would consume the NFL. ;D

Whether or not this team makes a significant leap next season will depend on whether or not Bowlen gets his wallet out.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-18-2011, 09:24 PM
nice to see a reasonable discussion around here and not the your a tebow hater talk or other knee jerk reactions like fire john fox oh wait nm gruder o well 1 out of several posters aint bad

bpc
12-18-2011, 09:26 PM
I think Tebow has earned another year under center. No doubt about it. This game was disappointing but clear up the turnovers, a few injuries in the defensive backfield and some interesting officiating on big 3rd downs and we could be looking at another come back attempt by Tebow. To say that we are not that far away from the Patriots after picking 2nd in last year's draft says we've come NIGHT & DAY from where we were.

We need to retool in the offseason. Our defense has played very well in 2/3's of the game but we need MAJOR youth in the secondary. When Willis McGahee goes out, our offense normally suffers. Those are a few major holes we need to look at. We need more depth and talent on the lines. We aren't getting much by way of production from our TE either.

So the biggest decision we'll have this offseason is continue to build up the defense or give Tebow some adequate weapons to work with. Should be interesting from that standpoint.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-18-2011, 09:26 PM
also draft Defense !!!! and some receivers .LEAVE THE QB SPOT ALONE draft a back up thou or get a free agent

ScottXray
12-18-2011, 09:30 PM
Our TEs were invisble.

We had TEs?

McDman
12-18-2011, 09:31 PM
first off, the turnovers killed us...if you give a good team that many more chances they will beat you every time.

we obviously need somebody that can play over the tight end and stop them from making our D lick a cat's ass.

we also need play making safeties.... makes me long for the days of atwater and smith roaming back there. Dawkins is getting long in the tooth....and nobody else scares opposing OC's

I think Tebow has earned the right to be our starting quarterback next year, Thomas seems to developing into the player we hoped he would, so we have to address our defensive deficiencies....

I said all along I just want to see improvement in the team... we've proven we can beat up the weaklings.... we need to improve the talent on this team so we can go after the big boys.

missed tackles, and losing the turnover battle will never win in this league. the good news is we could afford to lose this 1 game

You mean barely slip by with incredible come backs?

McDman
12-18-2011, 09:38 PM
I think just having a great running back and a tad better defense could be the answer. If McGahee isn't injured what happens in that game? McGahee was injured in the Lions game too.

I also think Fox could be the problem.. he just isn't a very good coach. But there's likely no way of getting rid of him.. his players might love him but I just get the impression he will NEVER win big games against better coaches. He is supposed o be a defensive coach and he brought a big bag of nothing to this game.. I can't ever see him beating Bellichcik and I bet he ends up throwing Tebow under the bus because of his own shortcomings..

Are you kidding me? I know you weren't a Bronco fan before last season but do you realize how bad our defense was before Fox got here? He has made them ten times better than any D I can remember since 2005.

And this is all happening while we need another DE, a MLB, a CB, another DT, and a S.

He has given Tebow every opportunity to succeed and with each week gives him more of a chance. He and McCoy have installed an offense specifically tailored to him.

You are the absolute most insufferable douche on this site.

McDman
12-18-2011, 09:40 PM
We're right back where we were with those Jake Plummer teams.

You and I rattled on and on for years about the problems that this team has had in shoring up the defensive front 7. At some point you have to invest in it if you want a defense that can carry you past teams like New England. Hopefully these guys see that...Elway has talked about bringing that defense back to Denver, so we'll see how serious they are about it this offseason. They'll have a full offseason to acquire free agents and prepare to draft.

This team has some glaring holes. I'd rank them as follows:

1 CB
2 RB
3 MLB
4 DT
5 OT/OG
6 S

I think we need offensive line before DT. Our DTs have been playing well and far outperforming our OL. It'd be great to get another good one to rotate in with Bunkley and Thomas but right now they are playing so much better than anyone on the O-Line.

We may also need a WR. I will start believing in DT when he has big games against teams that aren't starting special teamers in their secondary.

McDman
12-18-2011, 09:42 PM
This was one of the worst defenses ever last year, so let's give them some credit.

CB---Goodman sucks and Champ is getting old. Can we get Alphonso Smith back please?
RB---Agreed, fortunately incredibly easy to fill.
MLB--- I am disappointed that Irving isn't playing MLB. I thought he would be the future, but that might have been incorrect.
DT---Thomas and Bunkley have played well, but they are average and there isn't much else there. More depth needed.
OT/OG---they are young, but a minor hole IMO. Best way to improve would be to move Franklin to LG, and draft a a RT but that requires a high draft pick and I'd rather address other positions.
S---Moore is the future FS, IMO. I wonder if Harris can be moved to SS??? Also wonder if Champ will be moved to safety in future years...might make CB more pressing of a need.

For what it's worth, PFF ranks Bunkley as one of the best rush stoppers in the league.

NFLBRONCO
12-18-2011, 09:45 PM
As long as the FO understands we have alot of work to do our future is solid. It will take a few years of solid drafts and FA moves to get better. Imo we have improved alot in 1 year but, far from finished.

TheChamp24
12-18-2011, 10:20 PM
also, we need playmakers at TE/RB position. We need multiple guys to create mismatches, heck look what the Pats just did. They have so many weapons it left our D confused and guys were running free.
Also, we need depth on the whole defense.

Main thing, we need our young guys to continue to improve and get better. I really think our young guys, ie Tebow, get work together and come on next year, it could be amazing.

Cito Pelon
12-18-2011, 10:31 PM
This game will dictate our future if we can't tackle.

epicSocialism4tw
12-18-2011, 10:34 PM
also, we need playmakers at TE/RB position. We need multiple guys to create mismatches, heck look what the Pats just did. They have so many weapons it left our D confused and guys were running free.
Also, we need depth on the whole defense.

Main thing, we need our young guys to continue to improve and get better. I really think our young guys, ie Tebow, get work together and come on next year, it could be amazing.

Its too bad there isnt a Harvin in this draft (that I know of).

Jetmeck
12-18-2011, 10:59 PM
The Broncos have two rookie TE's in Thomas and Green, both are getting playing time. I'm not worried about the TE position...

I am. They havent done a thing all year

MacGruder
12-19-2011, 03:07 AM
Are you kidding me? I know you weren't a Bronco fan before last season but do you realize how bad our defense was before Fox got here? He has made them ten times better than any D I can remember since 2005.

And this is all happening while we need another DE, a MLB, a CB, another DT, and a S.

He has given Tebow every opportunity to succeed and with each week gives him more of a chance. He and McCoy have installed an offense specifically tailored to him.

I am in are of how stupid people are.. You know WHY Fox's D looks so great and Tebow usually looks terrible on offense? They are one and the same reason.. because everything Fox does is to make his defense look good. It's a GIMMICK. By hamstringing your offense it protects and rests your defense... all fine and dandy when you are facing scrub QBs... but then you see them get exposed against a decent offense.

You could say McD's D looked bad because he tried to run a high powered offense and Orotn put up Dan Marino numbers last season.. this is why Cam Newton's play is so inflated. Sam reason the Pats D looks so bad this season. But look.. The Denver D as like a sieve and they couldn't get a turnover to save their life.

You wonder why the Broncos got so many turnovers? Because the Broncos D looked so awful...

You are the absolute most insufferable douche on this site.

Do you realize John Fox is the same guy that went with Orton to start the season and never used Tebow in red zone packages.. this game wouldn't even have really mattered much if Fox hadn't made such boneheaded moves. Imagine how much further along Tebow could be by now...

CEH
12-19-2011, 05:54 AM
With Dawkins out our safeties were a hot mess but we shut down Welker and Gronk. Brady found the weakness in the defense with Hernadez. Had we not commited two bone head plays this is a very competive game and I think a healthy Maghee runs all over NE. Put a young stud RB back there to compliment Willis next year, use Orton's money to buy a solid #2 CB and or S and draft a few defenders not like Moore and Carter. Moore is a real disappointment. I could see him being out of the league in a year he's that bad and would really need to improve just to get to compentent. I think Edleman is a better seconadary guy than Moore. You can't be all things to everybody. I like where our defense is heading. I still don't know how Brady held on to the ball after that Doom hit. Most time the QB will fumble.

WolfpackGuy
12-19-2011, 06:06 AM
Moore is a real disappointment.

Yeah, he had also had an INT that hit him right in the face in Patriots territory.

I know it went through Gronkowski's hands, but "ballhawks" come down with that one.

McDman
12-19-2011, 06:13 AM
I am in are of how stupid people are.. You know WHY Fox's D looks so great and Tebow usually looks terrible on offense? They are one and the same reason.. because everything Fox does is to make his defense look good. It's a GIMMICK. By hamstringing your offense it protects and rests your defense... all fine and dandy when you are facing scrub QBs... but then you see them get exposed against a decent offense.

You could say McD's D looked bad because he tried to run a high powered offense and Orotn put up Dan Marino numbers last season.. this is why Cam Newton's play is so inflated. Sam reason the Pats D looks so bad this season. But look.. The Denver D as like a sieve and they couldn't get a turnover to save their life.

You wonder why the Broncos got so many turnovers? Because the Broncos D looked so awful...



Do you realize John Fox is the same guy that went with Orton to start the season and never used Tebow in red zone packages.. this game wouldn't even have really mattered much if Fox hadn't made such boneheaded moves. Imagine how much further along Tebow could be by now...

You are the dumbets human being I've ever spoken too. You're insane.

Please go back to being a Gator fan.

DrFate
12-19-2011, 06:38 AM
Some good takes in this thread - I kind of agree with Popps that the core flaws on the defense haven't changed all that much re: the top-tier passing games. Give these guys a couple of extra seconds and they simply pick you apart. Besides Bailey, the secondary is (literally) full of holes. I told my wife yesterday (before she fell asleep) 'watch 21 - every time the Patriots complete a pass, you'll see him in the play'. Brady (or Brees or Rivers or whomever) are simply going to lock onto whoever Champ ISN'T covering and have a field day. Combine that with the inability to cover the TE, and you simply can't survive without a good pass rush.

Conversely, watching a game like that really shows you how thin this team is at the skill position players - while people have affection for players like Decker or Thomas, there isn't an impact player at the RB/WR/TE position on this roster. (maybe McGahee, but he's run out of gas this year). You look at the elite teams and you see several guys that can make a play and break off a long gainer - this Broncos team just doesn't have that. Tebow can't throw a dumpoff to a TE like Hernandez or Gronkowski and have that turn into a 30 yard play. Once in a blue moon Royal has a game where he looks like Percy Harvin, but more often he simply vanishes. This team needs a couple of guys at the skill positions to even compete with the better offensive teams in the league. And it needs upgrades at corner, linebacker, safety and along the DLine to be a really good defense.

It's what most people know - this was a 4 win team last year and needs to continue adding talent on both sides of the ball.

jhns
12-19-2011, 06:44 AM
The original post doesn't make any sense. You really think they put that much stock in one game? Does that mean you think GB is going to make radical changes after this week? They clearly showed they can't take a crap chiefs team...

This game was competituve if they eliminate the **** ton of mistakes. There were so many penalties that happened at the worst times. There were multiple turnovers by a team that normally protects the ball much better. It happens. This is the staffs first year with a very young team. The team was the second worst team in the league last season. Of course we have depth and consistency issues. They need to keep doing what they are doing.

TheChamp24
12-19-2011, 06:47 AM
Conversely, watching a game like that really shows you how thin this team is at the skill position players - while people have affection for players like Decker or Thomas, there isn't an impact player at the RB/WR/TE position on this roster. (maybe McGahee, but he's run out of gas this year). You look at the elite teams and you see several guys that can make a play and break off a long gainer - this Broncos team just doesn't have that. Tebow can't throw a dumpoff to a TE like Hernandez or Gronkowski and have that turn into a 30 yard play. Once in a blue moon Royal has a game where he looks like Percy Harvin, but more often he simply vanishes. This team needs a couple of guys at the skill positions to even compete with the better offensive teams in the league. And it needs upgrades at corner, linebacker, safety and along the DLine to be a really good defense.



Ding ding ding. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we spent our 1st rounder on a WR and our 2nd rounder on a RB.
Kendall Wright from Baylor might be worth a look in the 1st round. Or maybe even the TE from Clemson, Dwayne Allen.
And add in a round 2 RB in Polk, oh yeah.
But then again, if we can get Still in the 1st I think we should look at that. We need to get a push up the middle.

gunns
12-19-2011, 07:09 AM
Ding ding ding. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we spent our 1st rounder on a WR and our 2nd rounder on a RB.
Kendall Wright from Baylor might be worth a look in the 1st round. Or maybe even the TE from Clemson, Dwayne Allen.
And add in a round 2 RB in Polk, oh yeah.
But then again, if we can get Still in the 1st I think we should look at that. We need to get a push up the middle.

OMG, I'm going to hyperventilate. What is this crap about building up the offense? (And OMG a WR???) Shanahan left. Taking Miller this year took our D leaps and bounds but it was so bad unless Denver keeps building that D, they could have the offense of our SB wins and still do nothing. We better take D in the first round, CB, DT, whoever the best D player is. Might I add, I kept watching #25 yesterday wondering who in the hell he was....Chris Harris....that kid came in on every play and usually accomplished what the other players could not. I was impressed.

Rohirrim
12-19-2011, 07:22 AM
OMG, I'm going to hyperventilate. What is this crap about building up the offense? (And OMG a WR???) Shanahan left. Taking Miller this year took our D leaps and bounds but it was so bad unless Denver keeps building that D, they could have the offense of our SB wins and still do nothing. We better take D in the first round, CB, DT, whoever the best D player is. Might I add, I kept watching #25 yesterday wondering who in the hell he was....Chris Harris....that kid came in on every play and usually accomplished what the other players could not. I was impressed.

Yeah, Hawkins and Goodman have to be replaced and behind them the Broncos are young. They'll have to go strong in FA. Also, Sydquan (hopefully) will be back and he showed some real flashes of talent. Definitely the Broncos will have to go DB somewhere in the draft, but IMHO, it's also crucial that Tebow has somebody to throw to when he comes out of a long scramble. Right now, he's got squat. A 6'6" TE would do the trick. Keeping the offense on the field longer also helps the D and keeps the pass rush rested.

DrFate
12-19-2011, 07:28 AM
OMG, I'm going to hyperventilate. What is this crap about building up the offense? (And OMG a WR???) Shanahan left. Taking Miller this year took our D leaps and bounds but it was so bad unless Denver keeps building that D, they could have the offense of our SB wins and still do nothing. We better take D in the first round, CB, DT, whoever the best D player is. Might I add, I kept watching #25 yesterday wondering who in the hell he was....Chris Harris....that kid came in on every play and usually accomplished what the other players could not. I was impressed.

Both sides need a talent infusion. I'd be willing to make the claim that Denver has the worst combination of WR/TE in the entire league. Nobody is saying spend the first 5 picks on skill players. But that group needs upgrading, period, if this team is going to compete with the better teams in the league.

jhns
12-19-2011, 07:34 AM
You mean barely slip by with incredible come backs?

Winning every close game means that you are a consistent 10+ win team.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
12-19-2011, 07:44 AM
Tebow's the starter next year. This game didn't change that.

jhns
12-19-2011, 07:46 AM
One positive from the game was the receivers didn't drop any balls that I remember. That is a big improvement over the last few weeks. Baby steps.

ScottXray
12-19-2011, 07:47 AM
Some good takes in this thread - I kind of agree with Popps that the core flaws on the defense haven't changed all that much re: the top-tier passing games. Give these guys a couple of extra seconds and they simply pick you apart. Besides Bailey, the secondary is (literally) full of holes. I told my wife yesterday (before she fell asleep) 'watch 21 - every time the Patriots complete a pass, you'll see him in the play'. Brady (or Brees or Rivers or whomever) are simply going to lock onto whoever Champ ISN'T covering and have a field day. Combine that with the inability to cover the TE, and you simply can't survive without a good pass rush.

Conversely, watching a game like that really shows you how thin this team is at the skill position players - while people have affection for players like Decker or Thomas, there isn't an impact player at the RB/WR/TE position on this roster. (maybe McGahee, but he's run out of gas this year). You look at the elite teams and you see several guys that can make a play and break off a long gainer - this Broncos team just doesn't have that. Tebow can't throw a dumpoff to a TE like Hernandez or Gronkowski and have that turn into a 30 yard play. Once in a blue moon Royal has a game where he looks like Percy Harvin, but more often he simply vanishes. This team needs a couple of guys at the skill positions to even compete with the better offensive teams in the league. And it needs upgrades at corner, linebacker, safety and along the DLine to be a really good defense.
It's what most people know - this was a 4 win team last year and needs to continue adding talent on both sides of the ball.

In bold +1 . You have the right view. We aren't there yet and won't be until these positions are addressed. I'm hoping that Bowlen will open the check book this Off season and get some FA pick ups as well as a good draft.
I heard that 25% of the veterans in the NFL will be FAs this off season. Seems like we should get some players.


QB is the least of our problems.

Tombstone RJ
12-19-2011, 07:55 AM
I am. They havent done a thing all year

They are rookies and one (Thomas) was/is extremely raw and when he was drafted it was a well known fact that he would need time to develop.

Also people have to remember that Tebow may be the reason the TEs aren't shining right now. Maybe its more Tebow's fault (than the TEs) that they aren't big weapons on the offense. Right now its hard to say who's fault it is that the TEs aren't being thrown to or aren't a big pass threat.

TheChamp24
12-19-2011, 07:58 AM
OMG, I'm going to hyperventilate. What is this crap about building up the offense? (And OMG a WR???) Shanahan left. Taking Miller this year took our D leaps and bounds but it was so bad unless Denver keeps building that D, they could have the offense of our SB wins and still do nothing. We better take D in the first round, CB, DT, whoever the best D player is. Might I add, I kept watching #25 yesterday wondering who in the hell he was....Chris Harris....that kid came in on every play and usually accomplished what the other players could not. I was impressed.

Go look up who are the two worst defenses are in the NFL in terms of yards.




Green Bay and mother freakin New England. The two teams leading their respective conferences. Points allowed, they are 14th.
However, they have so many skill players on offense that you can't stop them.
We don't really have anybody right now that creates a huge mismatch on the defense. If we can get a legit threat at TE and a playmaker at RB, maybe.
I'm not saying we shouldn't ignore defense, but also understand that the offense needs legit playmaking threats.
That said, I think defense might actually be our 1st round pick. DT/LB/CB.

DrFate
12-19-2011, 08:28 AM
It has to be BPA, down the line. Right now the Broncos pick is around #21 I think. If the BPA is a corner, a safety, a LB, RB, a TE, a WR -that should be the pick.

lonestar
12-19-2011, 08:50 AM
McGahee is nice, but he's just too old and injury prone to be counted on. The Broncos need to pair him with a Percy Harvin type and an every-down back. We could really use a Marshall Faulk/Tomilinson type of back.

At DT, we need a real stud. We have some above average types, but we need that rock who refuses to be moved.

We also need a stud MLB and another stud CB.

This team is really talent-thin, but then again we are below the mandated cap minimum. Management didnt spend money on the team this season.

As for DT Bunkley is very solid and Thomas well getting better But pair either of them with a stud DT ans suddenly the entire defense gets much better. Then draft another stud in TWO years and another again in two years..

We need a Young Magahee to go along with him.. J Jones seems to be a decent runner but we still need a young stud there..

as for CB we need a pair of cover corners badly maybe it is time for Champ to go to saftey maybe he is the answer for our weakness at FS..

I do not think our OLINE is great but I believe time will fix that maybe adding a few pounds of muscle in the off season will be a good thing.. OL play is SO geared to experience and knowing what the guy next to you is going to do.. We are very close now.

We have had a problem at DT for going on a decade now and I can't EVER remember when we had two great ones..

I believe if Dawkins had been playing Miller was cast free things would have been different yesterday.. IF moron does not put the ball on the ground twice..

That was a back breaker..

lonestar
12-19-2011, 09:21 AM
I don't blame them. Noway you could have convinced me that this team would be 8-6 and in first place in our division. I'd rather address the depth problems thru the draft than FA anyway. We found some real gems this year, Chris Harris for example, and if we had spent that money on FAs we probably would have stunted that growth.



IIRC chris Harris was a UDFA..

But the huge hole we have been digging out from was the poor personnel management since mikey was in charge .. Huge busts with UFA spending hundreds of millions on them during his tenure hoping for a quick fix..
Mainly because his drafting was so poor.. We only resigned to a second contract before or when the rookie contract expired 5 of 45+ first day picks ( rounds 1-3 for most years and then 1-2 for the rest of them), in years 1997-2006.

then in 07 which should all becoming UFA this year

2007 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame

all total busts at least in DEN.. the only hope from that draft is maybe #4 Thomas..

2008 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 12 Ryan Clady T Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech

Clady has been great up till his knee injury and this year well is pretty close to leading the league in holding calls.. so Maybe he is not yet healed

Eddie has been the most inconsistent WR we had had since his rookie year..

2009 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 12 Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
1 18 Robert Ayers LB Tennessee
2 37 Alphonso Smith DB Wake Forest
2 48 Darcel McBath DB Texas Tech
2 64 Richard Quinn TE North Carolina
Ayers looks like the only keeper from 09.


2010 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 22 Demaryius Thomas WR Georgia Tech
1 25 Tim Tebow QB Florida
2 45 Zane Beadles G Utah
3 80 J.D. Walton C Baylor
3 87 Eric Decker WR Minnesota

whom all look like keepers solid starters if not blooming super stars.

2011 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 2 Von Miller LB Texas A&M
2 45 Rahim Moore DB UCLA
2 46 Orlando Franklin T Miami (Fla.)
3 67 Nate Irving LB North Carolina State

At least one super star there with maybe 3 solid starters..

These are the players you build a franchise around..

Not slipping a little each year, till suddenly the cupboard is very bare..

Lets hope that John Etal can reverse the direction of the team over the next few years.. Thus building a perennial powerhouse..

lonestar
12-19-2011, 09:27 AM
They are rookies and one (Thomas) was/is extremely raw and when he was drafted it was a well known fact that he would need time to develop.

Also people have to remember that Tebow may be the reason the TEs aren't shining right now. Maybe its more Tebow's fault (than the TEs) that they aren't big weapons on the offense. Right now its hard to say who's fault it is that the TEs aren't being thrown to or aren't a big pass threat.

I suspect that the TE are being held into block for both the pass protect as well as run blocking..

I think that should improve a bunch as our OL matures.. we have one 5 year guy one four year guy and 3 guys with 2 years or less playing time..

lonestar
12-19-2011, 09:35 AM
We have so many holes that we have a swath of players to choose from at the intersection of "best player available" and "position of need". This draft should be productive.

I agree about Hillis. That would be a good pair with McGahee. Hillis + Willis. Hillis is a tough runner and can catch the ball. Plus, the Tebow + Hillis combination in the backfield could be such a conflagration that it would consume the NFL. ;D

Whether or not this team makes a significant leap next season will depend on whether or not Bowlen gets his wallet out.

zWhile I have always loved Hillis from draft day on. I'm not wanting him back after all teh wear and tear he has had since coming into the league..

At least not in as a megabuck FA..


he has missed 12 games over those four years due to Injuries imagined or not..and frankly is a head case for CLE right now.. I doubt seriously they would resign him..

That is coming from someone that really likes him..

I'm not sure how much he has left in the tank after all of the abuse he hands out..

maher_tyler
12-19-2011, 09:51 AM
The Real question is , Will Tebow Become Tony Romo ? I dont think so ..... I still think Tebow will be or surpass Elway ... Kid is rock solid

Did you see the look in his eyes in the post game interview?? I have a feeling we're going to kill Buffalo, i almost feel bad for them!

Spider
12-19-2011, 09:52 AM
Did you see the look in his eyes in the post game interview?? I have a feeling we're going to kill Buffalo, i almost feel bad for them!

no i didnt , I had to get some work done .... BuT I wouldnt wanna be Bills next week ;)

TonyR
12-19-2011, 09:54 AM
Go look up who are the two worst defenses are in the NFL in terms of yards.

Green Bay and mother freakin New England. The two teams leading their respective conferences.

It's a fair point, but I don't think this team is being constructed using that model. Tebow doesn't play the same type of game that Brady and Rodgers do, and I don't think he'll ever be that kind of QB. We're going to be a more conservative, ball control type of offensive team. So more like the Steelers than the current Pats or Pack. We'll need a better defense than those teams have to support a team built this way.

TheChamp24
12-19-2011, 10:01 AM
It's a fair point, but I don't think this team is being constructed using that model. Tebow doesn't play the same type of game that Brady and Rodgers do, and I don't think he'll ever be that kind of QB. We're going to be a more conservative, ball control type of offensive team. So more like the Steelers than the current Pats or Pack. We'll need a better defense than those teams have to support a team built this way.

You still need a playmaker on offense even if you are conservative. Get a Percy Harvin like at WR, or a big, athletic TE to cause mismatches is what we need.

TonyR
12-19-2011, 10:07 AM
You still need a playmaker on offense...

Oh I agree. I just hope we don't use high draft picks on O skill positions.

Pontius Pirate
12-19-2011, 10:08 AM
Our TEs were invisble.

Playing against the NE TE's can often times cause temporary invisibility of one's own TE's. It's science.

Pontius Pirate
12-19-2011, 10:09 AM
You are the dumbets human being I've ever spoken too. You're insane.

Please go back to being a Gator fan.

"dumbets"

LOL.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/001/296/morans.jpg?1258144221

Popps
01-14-2012, 07:29 PM
This reminds me so much of so many past losses in big games. A team with a highly effective QB and an intermediate passing game comes in and forces us to get into their style of game because our defense laid down and played dead. Certainly, we had major O/ST miscues, but I think I only counted 1 defensive stop before the half? (I could be off on that but it wasn't many.)

This just had the feel of so many big-game losses in the past decade or so.

So, the question is... does the staff do it right this time? Was it obvious enough today that we couldn't dictate the game with our defense? Was it obvious enough that we don't have the offense to stay in high-scoring shoot-outs against HOF QBs?

Or, could the staff possibly look at this game and say... "now you see, we just need to find the next Tom Brady and build the team around HIM."

Whichever it is, I guarantee you that today will be one of if not the biggest game that the staff looks at when deciding how to approach next season.
There was a ton of information to take in... it just depends how you interpret it. Of course, there is a lot of season to play and hopefully we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves in many more big games. But, I just feel like today was a turning point.

What do you think?

Personally, I'm all in with Tebow and this offense. I think he showed a lot today, despite being bottled up for much of the game. He's consistently improving as a passer and has big game moxie when the whole team shows up. But, it's similar to past situations we've been in where you're going to have to build a team around him... specifically around him. He needs things in place to be successful. He's not Brady/Manning. So, the staff is going to have to recognize that, and go all in to put the structure around him to be successful in games like this. If I'm making the call... I do just that. But, today was a rough game. No telling how the FO will interpret it.


So, how about now... on board yet?

Posted this thread after last NE game, and this feels exactly the same.

To me, this is the template for our playoff losses for over 10 years. The only difference is, we don't have Jake Plummer to blame for the defenses' failure.

The staff needs to design a defense that can at least get in the way of this specific offense. Because they're not going anywhere.

Like I said last time... this game (again) will (and should) dictate our future.

dsmoot
01-14-2012, 07:40 PM
There will be major retooling of the secondary. Our secondary is a huge gaping hole. The nickel and dime packages simply can not hold up due to the safeties and lack of CB depth.

This type of game blows away all the fluff of the middle season winning streak. There is no hiding where the problems are. On D, we are like a baseball team, weak up the middle from the LOS to the goal line. We need additional help on the OL, a pass catching TE, another WR, another RB. Alot of pieces.

Popps
01-14-2012, 08:21 PM
This type of game blows away all the fluff of the middle season winning streak. There is no hiding where the problems are. On D, we are like a baseball team, weak up the middle from the LOS to the goal line. We need additional help on the OL, a pass catching TE, another WR, another RB. Alot of pieces.

Yea, though I think you'd be surprised the difference one play-maker on both sides could make. Think about Miller's impact for most of this season. (Before the injury.)

We need a play-maker on offense and obviously have a few holes on defense to fill. But, if we do that adequately and work with Tebow to improve his passing... there's no reason we can't take the division again next season.
(For starters.)