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jhns
12-08-2011, 06:57 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_19494180

Kiszla: Champ Bailey best defensive player in Broncos history

To tell the truth, cornerback Champ Bailey didn't expect to be here. He didn't expect to be in first place. Heck, he didn't expect to be in Denver. He was as good as gone from the Broncos a year ago.

"A year ago, I didn't know if the Broncos even wanted me," Bailey said Wednesday. "I didn't know if I would be back. The signs were it wasn't going to happen."

The improbable tale of how Denver became the NFL's best comeback story of 2011 could not have been written without Bailey coming back to town, when he could have found fortune elsewhere. So maybe it's time we recognize this 10-time Pro Bowler for all he's worth: Bailey is the best defensive player in franchise history.

"Thanks," Bailey told me, accepting the praise with humility.

At age 33, he is too busy running down dreams to dwell on his legacy.

But make no mistake. "One of my goals is to be in the Hall of Fame and be mentioned among the greatest," Bailey said.

Declaring Bailey the No. 1 defender ever to wear a Broncos jersey is saying a mouthful, certain to ignite debate. Denver is a franchise with a hard-earned defensive reputation. There are bruises caused from tackles by Rich "Tombstone" Jackson in the 1960s that are yet to heal.

And the hits have kept on coming for decades. Here is one man's opinion of the best five Broncos to draw a line in the dirt and make a defensive stand:

1) Bailey: Thrives despite league rules rigged against him.

2) Steve Atwater: Real MVP of the first Super Bowl victory.

3) Randy Gradishar: Put the pop in the Orange Crush.

4) Karl Mecklenburg: The thinking man's wrecking ball.

5) Louis Wright: Among most underrated corners of all time.



Second half is in the link.

JCMElway
12-08-2011, 07:10 AM
Meh, he's missing Dennis Smith who many feel was better than Atwater. Also, Paul Smith should be on that list as well. How about Rubin Carter or Tom Jackson........

And Gradishar should be #1 on the list. No doubt.

Spider
12-08-2011, 07:28 AM
champ and Louis Wright would love to see the 2 play with the same rules .... . but in the end Champ very well could be ....No diss to Gradishar , DS 49 , Atwater , Ruben Carter , and the 2 most over looked players in this topic , Rulon Jones and Karl Mecklinburg

bendog
12-08-2011, 07:30 AM
Meh, he's missing Dennis Smith who many feel was better than Atwater. Also, Paul Smith should be on that list as well. How about Rubin Carter or Tom Jackson........

And Gradishar should be #1 on the list. No doubt.

Rich Jackson. But it's a kizla article and therefore not worthy of comment. The fact he doesn't even know who Rich Jackson is defines Kizla. What my dog shat on my front lawn had more substance that kizla's writing.

SureShot
12-08-2011, 07:50 AM
These numbers are underrated.

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<th onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 2px;" colspan="3" class="tooltip over_header" align="CENTER"></th>
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<th onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 2px;" colspan="1" class="bold_text over_header" align="center">Fumbles</th>
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<th onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 2px;" class="tooltip" tip="Games played" align="center">G</th>
<th onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 2px;" class="tooltip" tip="Games started as an offensive or defensive player" align="center">GS</th>
<th onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 2px;" class="tooltip" tip="Sacks" align="center">Sk</th>
<th onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); padding: 2px;" class="tooltip" tip="Number of times forced a fumble by the opposition recovered by either team" align="center">FF</th>
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</thead>
<tbody>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="0" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1985.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">1</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">1.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right"></td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="1" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1986.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">2</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">5.5</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">0</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="2" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1987.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">12</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">12</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">4.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">0</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="3" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1988.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">9.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">0</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="4" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1989.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">12.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">3</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="5" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1990.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">11.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">4</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="6" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1991.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">13.5</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">2</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="7" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1992.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">5</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="8" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1993.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">13.5</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">3</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="9" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1994.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">7.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">1</td>
</tr>
<tr onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="10" class="" id="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="left"><a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1995.htm?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;utm_ca mpaign=ShareTool" title="Denver Broncos">DEN</a></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">16</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">5.0</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap;" align="right">2</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<tfoot>
<tr id="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" data-row="11" class="">
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-weight: bold; font-size: 0.9em;" align="left"></td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-weight: bold; font-size: 0.9em;" align="right">172</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-weight: bold; font-size: 0.9em;" align="right">143</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-weight: bold; font-size: 0.9em;" align="right">97.5</td>
<td onclick="" onmouseout="" onmouseover="" style="border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; background-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); font-weight: bold; font-size: 0.9em;" align="right">20</td>
</tr>
</tfoot>
</table><div class="sr_share" style="font-size: 0.83em;" id="">Provided by <a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share&amp;u tm_campaign=ShareTool">Pro-Football-Reference.com</a>: <a href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FletSi20.htm?sr&amp;utm_source=direct&amp;utm_medium=Share &amp;utm_campaign=ShareTool#defense">View Original Table</a><br>Generated 12/8/2011.</div>
</div>

bronco militia
12-08-2011, 08:10 AM
2) Steve Atwater: Real MVP of the first Super Bowl victory.

kizla!!! you dick!

atwater had a great game, but for ****'s sakes.

TheReverend
12-08-2011, 08:10 AM
I agree

Man-Goblin
12-08-2011, 08:11 AM
Good trade.

Mile High Mojoe
12-08-2011, 08:13 AM
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h318/gomilehigh/RandyGradishar-1.jpg

Gradishar is the greatest defensive player that ever suited up for the Broncos. I still can't believe he isn't in the HOF, he should have been the first one inducted. Champ is a great player the best DB we've had but what Gradishar contributed overall make's him the best ever. Kiszla is the biggest slime at the Denver Post, the guy has rarley been right about anything when it comes to the Broncos.

TheReverend
12-08-2011, 08:14 AM
2) Steve Atwater: Real MVP of the first Super Bowl victory.

kizla!!! you dick!

atwater had a great game, but for ****'s sakes.

For ****'s sake is right. TD had 165 yards and three TDs and his decoy goalline play was instrumental in a 4th... he absolutely deserved that award.

Stagger Lee
12-08-2011, 08:15 AM
2) Steve Atwater: Real MVP of the first Super Bowl victory.

kizla!!! you dick!

atwater had a great game, but for ****'s sakes.

I have to agree. I love me some Atwater, but TD rushed for over 150 yards and 3 scores, while missing a significant chunk of the game because of the migraine. He had to be the MVP.

ludo21
12-08-2011, 08:16 AM
best Bronco defensive player i have witnessed for sure.

And I LOVED Atwater..... I dont go beyond the 90's though lol

fwf
12-08-2011, 08:16 AM
Champ is the only one so far who's going to the HOF.

bowtown
12-08-2011, 08:22 AM
These numbers are underrated.



Is that Fletcher?

SureShot
12-08-2011, 08:33 AM
Is that Fletcher?


Yep.

Rev go rewatch that game Atwater is everywhere.

Eldorado
12-08-2011, 08:40 AM
These numbers are underrated.



Fletcher?

TheReverend
12-08-2011, 08:49 AM
Yep.

Rev go rewatch that game Atwater is everywhere.

Oh I agree and not trying to minimize that. But TD was everywhere too... Including the opposing endzone several times.

Smilin Assassin
12-08-2011, 09:18 AM
Rev go rewatch that game Atwater is everywhere.


Atwater played an excellent game. Just awesome. Perfect if not for the dropped int......still, TD's game was off the charts and he deserved the MVP.

Same thing w/Darrien Gordon in SB XXIII. GREAT game, but you're not taking it from #7.

boppool
12-08-2011, 09:26 AM
This probably has to be the second best trade the Broncos have made since the Elway trade.

TheChamp24
12-08-2011, 09:26 AM
I know people like to go old school with Gradishar and Atwater and Jackson, etc.
But Champ is the best defensive player in Broncos history. He was voted #2 in Defensive Player of the Year honors twice, and had a very good case both times. 2005 should've been his most definitely and 2006 he just went against an amazing year from Jason Taylor.
Most Pro Bowls in NFL history for a CB.
This year virtually every game he has shut down the opponent receivers.
A complete corner who can tackle.
Made an amazing play in our lone playoff victory the last decade.

BigPlayShay
12-08-2011, 09:35 AM
Yep.

Rev go rewatch that game Atwater is everywhere.

Had Atwater held onto that easy INT, he would have been MVP, but TD deserved it. I mean, coming back from a migraine, 3 TDs, all the yards.

broncocalijohn
12-08-2011, 09:40 AM
Meh, he's missing Dennis Smith who many feel was better than Atwater. Also, Paul Smith should be on that list as well. How about Rubin Carter or Tom Jackson........

And Gradishar should be #1 on the list. No doubt.

I dont mind the top 5 list but I cant put DBs and front 7 in the same catagory normally. Wright was one of the best we had during his start in the 70s. Infact, that whole 1977 team had some serious studs that should last the history of this franchise. Gradishar had 200 tackles in a 14 game league! He was everywhere. He needs to be in the HOF. My list of DBs are as follows (and in no particular order)

1) Bailey
2) Wright
3) Dennis Smith
4) Atwater

list for LBs (no order):
1) Fletcher (my adoptee)
2) Gradishar
3) Mecklenberg
4) Tom Jackson

DL:
1) Paul Smith
2) Tombstone Jackson

What guys like Alpha, Broncbow and Mac would say best two players:
1) Tebow
2 Von Miller

bowtown
12-08-2011, 09:43 AM
I think Big Al deserves some consideration for top 5.

24champ
12-08-2011, 09:43 AM
Champ is the only one so far who's going to the HOF.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luwhadZft81r6aoq4o1_400.gif

FantomForce
12-08-2011, 09:47 AM
NO other player has had teams completely shut off the option of going that direction. There is no stat for number of times teams went away from a player. The other thing that makes Champ great is that unlike other CBs Champ brings the wood

broncocalijohn
12-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Is that Fletcher?

Yes, Sureshots graph are indeed Simon Fletcher's numbers. Worst is that he was stuck on the DL as an undersized guy and you can see his sacks dropped. He would have easily been an over 100 sack guy if Wade and Waters kept him at LB. Also sucks he retired right before our SB run. One guy that stuck around for a long time and yet missed out on the wins.

OrangeCrush2724
12-08-2011, 09:49 AM
Champ is the only one so far who's going to the HOF.

This. He is the only one that is going to be a first ballot.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 09:51 AM
I loved D Smith and Atwater as much as the next guy (guys like Gradishar were before my time) but there's some definite Broncos history homerism going on here.

Champ's the only 1st ballot HOF-caliber defensive player the team has ever seen. At least I think he'll be 1st ballot. If not he's at least an early lock for the hall.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 09:52 AM
This. He is the only one that is going to be a first ballot.

Damn it Crush! That post was mine! :D

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:07 AM
I loved D Smith and Atwater as much as the next guy (guys like Gradishar were before my time) but there's some definite Broncos history homerism going on here.
.

Bulllshait , that orange Crush defense was by far the best D in the history of the NFl , a lot of Broncos belong in the HOF from that era , Hell the NFL has gone as far to say Broncos had to have inflated Gradishars #'s Wright was a Shut down corner before the phrase became popular ,and Wright could play the run , man he had a nose for the ball , alot of those old timers get the shaft , cause they was the real victims of the AFC small market / east coast bias , back in those days , you didnt get the media coverage like you do now , So learn something about what your talking about ......Oh and by the way that Orange Crush D DOMINATED FOR A DECADE ..............homerism ? **** you

teknic
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
I loved D Smith and Atwater as much as the next guy (guys like Gradishar were before my time) but there's some definite Broncos history homerism going on here.


Bulllshait , that orange Crush defense was by far the best D in the history of the NFl , a lot of Broncos belong in the HOF from that era , Hell the NFL has gone as far to say Broncos had to have inflated Gradishars #'s Wright was a Shut down corner before the phrase became popular ,and Wright could play the run , man he had a nose for the ball , alot of those old timers get the shaft , cause they was the real victims of the AFC small market / east coast bias , back in those days , you didnt get the media coverage like you do now , So learn something about what your talking about ......Oh and by the way that Orange Crush D DOMINATED FOR A DECADE ..............homerism ? **** you


I hope you understand the irony of trying to discount his accusation of blind homerism with your very first sentence being a perfect example of it.

ROFL!

Bailey is probably the best defensive player the Broncos have had, simply because he has been so consistent for his career in Denver. He's been a shutdown, pro bowl corner every year he has been in Denver.

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:15 AM
I hope you understand the irony of trying to discount his accusation of blind homerism with your very first sentence being a perfect example of it.

ROFL!

Bailey is probably the best defensive player the Broncos have had, simply because he has been so consistent for his career in Denver. He's been a shutdown, pro bowl corner every year he has been in Denver.

just goes to show you dont know what in the **** your yapping about either , a few of us was lucky enough to watch that Defense kick ass .......That Defense earned that name ... why would you comment on something you dont know anything about ?

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:21 AM
I will tell you how dominate that Defense was we turned the Ball over 6 times and all Dalls could put up was 27 ( 14 0f that was 2 interceptions returned for TD's) ... when we wasnt turning the Ball over we was punting , that Defense stood tall

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:26 AM
F'ckin kids get off my lawn

24champ
12-08-2011, 10:37 AM
Bulllshait , that orange Crush defense was by far the best D in the history of the NFl , a lot of Broncos belong in the HOF from that era , Hell the NFL has gone as far to say Broncos had to have inflated Gradishars #'s Wright was a Shut down corner before the phrase became popular ,and Wright could play the run , man he had a nose for the ball , alot of those old timers get the shaft , cause they was the real victims of the AFC small market / east coast bias , back in those days , you didnt get the media coverage like you do now , So learn something about what your talking about ......Oh and by the way that Orange Crush D DOMINATED FOR A DECADE ..............homerism ? **** you

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af192/24champs/42BJ.jpg

jhns
12-08-2011, 10:37 AM
I will tell you how dominate that Defense was we turned the Ball over 6 times and all Dalls could put up was 27 ( 14 0f that was 2 interceptions returned for TD's) ... when we wasnt turning the Ball over we was punting , that Defense stood tall

You should add "were" to your vocabulary.

B-Love
12-08-2011, 10:42 AM
The very things that people loved about Atwater and his Super Bowl performance, are actually THE VERY SAME THINGS, that Mike Shanahan grew tired of, and why Pro Personnel people around the NFL didn't like about Atwater.

Everyone gets a hardon about Atwater's performance in Super Bowl 32 because of all the hard hits. What that also showed is what also drove Shanahan crazy about Atwater. And that is he was ALWAYS a half step late to the ball in pass coverage/ball in flight.

I had a conversation with an NFL Films camera guy here in the Northeast one time a few years ago, who said Broncos fans will never hear the audio clip of Green Bay's first TD to Freeman. Or they would be shocked if they heard it. Favre threw a horrible moonball to the back of the endzone and still Atwater could not get there. Shanahan WENT OFF and getting in Greg Robinson's face about how "we have the only Free Safety in the league who cant play that ball". With expletives thrown in. NFL Films will not show a coach bad mouthing a player to extreme levels, as part of their policy with the league.

That is what people dont get about Steve Atwater. Everyone is enamored with his hits, but the truth is he was very slow to the ball in flight.

Dennis Smith was a better player by a significant margin. He played alot more balls in flight, tipped more poasses, etc. And he hit even harder that 27 did. Dennis Smith slowed down by 1992, but between 81-91, that was the best Safety play this team has ever seen.

Both John Elway and Mike Shanahan call Dennis Smith the best Safety they were ever around, that's all the proof I need.

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:46 AM
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af192/24champs/42BJ.jpg

no it isnt ya dumb ass .................

B-Love
12-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Remember, ONLY WEEKS after the game so many people claim is Atwater's greatest game, Mike Shanahan announced that Eric Brown will be splitting reps with Steve Atwater for the 1998 season. He announced that in an April mini camp. Think about it.

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:49 AM
The very things that people loved about Atwater and his Super Bowl performance, are actually THE VERY SAME THINGS, that Mike Shanahan grew tired of, and why Pro Personnel people around the NFL didn't like about Atwater.

Everyone gets a hardon about Atwater's performance in Super Bowl 32 because of all the hard hits. What that also showed is what also drove Shanahan crazy about Atwater. And that is he was ALWAYS a half step late to the ball in pass coverage/ball in flight.

I had a conversation with an NFL Films camera guy here in the Northeast one time a few years ago, who said Broncos fans will never hear the audio clip of Green Bay's first TD to Freeman. Or they would be shocked if they heard it. Favre threw a horrible moonball to the back of the endzone and still Atwater could not get there. Shanahan WENT OFF and getting in Greg Robinson's face about how "we have the only Free Safety in the league who cant play that ball". With expletives thrown in. NFL Films will not show a coach bad mouthing a player to extreme levels, as part of their policy with the league.

That is what people dont get about Steve Atwater. Everyone is enamored with his hits, but the truth is he was very slow to the ball in flight.

Dennis Smith was a better player by a significant margin. He played alot more balls in flight, tipped more poasses, etc. And he hit even harder that 27 did. Dennis Smith slowed down by 1992, but between 81-91, that was the best Safety play this team has ever seen.

Both John Elway and Mike Shanahan call Dennis Smith the best Safety they were ever around, that's all the proof I need.LOL Thurman Thomas and Dave Casper had some interesting things to say about DS49 .

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 10:52 AM
I will tell you how dominate that Defense was we turned the Ball over 6 times and all Dalls could put up was 27 ( 14 0f that was 2 interceptions returned for TD's) ... when we wasnt turning the Ball over we was punting , that Defense stood tall

Whether that D was great or not, doesn't really matter when talking about the single best player.

Champ's got my vote. But it's not because he played on great defenses. If he did, he probably would've looked even better.

BroncoLifer
12-08-2011, 10:54 AM
Shanahan WENT OFF and getting in Greg Robinson's face about how "we have the only Free Safety in the league who cant play that ball"

So Shanahan was mad at Tyrone Braxton?

But anyway, I also love Atwater but agree that DS49 was a notch above.

Spider
12-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Whether that D was great or not, doesn't really matter when talking about the single best player.

Champ's got my vote. But it's not because he played on great defenses. If he did, he probably would've looked even better.

thats the point , that D was filled with single great players , and we had a few jackoffs ..........I just took issue with your homerism remark , without knowing what quality players we had back then ...... i dont dispute that champ could be , I even said so myself , But those guys of yesteryear deserve more then just a homerism remark ....

fwf
12-08-2011, 10:59 AM
nm

B-Love
12-08-2011, 10:59 AM
So Shanahan was mad at Tyrone Braxton?

But anyway, I also love Atwater but agree that DS49 was a notch above.

Dont remember the quote word for word, but you get the point. Robinson's scheme made "Free vs Strong" very blurry compared to Wade Phillips or Charlie Waters, etc. Anyway, Shanny was unquestioanably going off on Atwater.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 11:01 AM
thats the point , that D was filled with single great players , and we had a few jackoffs ..........I just took issue with your homerism remark , without knowing what quality players we had back then ...... i dont dispute that champ could be , I even said so myself , But those guys of yesteryear deserve more then just a homerism remark ....

Guess I don't feel as negatively about homerism as you do. Fandom is semi-irrational at its core when you think about it. We're all homers in one way or another.

Durango
12-08-2011, 11:10 AM
Champ is among the best to ever play his position. No question.

Gradishar is legend, and well earned. The best player on an iconic defense. A majority of people, and even sports writers didn't see him play. He would take over games the way you would think only a QB could do. He raised the level of play of his teammates.

He dominated by every definition of the word.

I can't say enough great things about Champ Bailey, but Gradishar just seems the obvious choice as the best defensive player this team has ever seen.

Spider
12-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Guess I don't feel as negatively about homerism as you do. Fandom is semi-irrational at its core when you think about it. We're all homers in one way or another.

;) well then a misunderstanding , I got the impression that the other guys was just being dismissed .......

Spider
12-08-2011, 11:15 AM
Champ is among the best to ever play his position. No question.

Gradishar is legend, and well earned. The best player on an iconic defense. A majority of people, and even sports writers didn't see him play. He would take over games the way you would think only a QB could do. He raised the level of play of his teammates.

He dominated by every definition of the word.

I can't say enough great things about Champ Bailey, but Gradishar just seems the obvious choice as the best defensive player this team has ever seen.

agreed , I still think it is ****ty the NFL says the Broncos inflated his stats ...

TheReverend
12-08-2011, 11:25 AM
no it isnt ya dumb ass .................

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

Los Broncos
12-08-2011, 11:38 AM
How good was L Wright? probably not close to Champ but just curious.

Spider
12-08-2011, 11:44 AM
How good was L Wright? probably not close to Champ but just curious.

really ? not even close huh ? so then what do you want to know for then , your mind is already made up .............just stick with your ignorant view

Los Broncos
12-08-2011, 11:51 AM
really ? not even close huh ? so then what do you want to know for then , your mind is already made up .............just stick with your ignorant view

I use too think you were cool Spider, but now you are just a **** talking bitch.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're just here to cause trouble...on iggy you go clown.

Spider
12-08-2011, 11:52 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

get bent ya freak ... go look that one up genius

Spider
12-08-2011, 11:54 AM
I use too think you were cool Spider, but now you are just a **** talking b****.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're just here to cause trouble...on iggy you go clown.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I am still cool ........ if you was being sarcastic or joking , then say so ..........

TheReverend
12-08-2011, 11:57 AM
get bent ya freak ... go look that one up genius

http://ask.reference.com/web?q=get%20bent%20ya%20freak&l=dir&qsrc=2891&o=10616

Spider
12-08-2011, 12:03 PM
http://ask.reference.com/web?q=get%20bent%20ya%20freak&l=dir&qsrc=2891&o=10616

LOL....ok good one

broncocalijohn
12-08-2011, 12:08 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I am still cool ........ if you was being sarcastic or joking , then say so ..........

Just in case he was and wants to pull you back from iggy, i will show your posts. I taught him the iggy option and looks like Ramblin got himself a new toy.

Stagger Lee
12-08-2011, 12:09 PM
Dont remember the quote word for word, but you get the point. Robinson's scheme made "Free vs Strong" very blurry compared to Wade Phillips or Charlie Waters, etc. Anyway, Shanny was unquestioanably going off on Atwater.

While this may or may not be true-(I have no idea), Atwater was a great safety for many years for this franchise. And, as much as I liked Shanny, judging defensive talent wasn't his strong suit.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-08-2011, 12:12 PM
so many great bronco defensive players to choose from.think they all are no 1. i couldn't choose just one.
hell make all the great Bronco DEFENSIVE players HOF they deserve it

jhns
12-08-2011, 12:20 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I am still cool ........ if you was being sarcastic or joking , then say so ..........

"were"

Was <> were

Are <> is

These two errors are the easiest way to tell someone is uneducated.

BroncoLifer
12-08-2011, 12:21 PM
How good was L Wright? probably not close to Champ but just curious.

He was extremely good. Unquestionably the second best CB the team has ever had. Was in 5 Pro Bowls and would have been more if he played in Pittsburgh or New York -- he wasn't a "look at me!!!" guy and didn't get much national media love.

I remember somewhere around '84 or '85, John Madden was doing the game (I know, consider the source) and Wright picked off a pass. Madden got excited and said "I don't know why anybody would throw at Louis Wright like that! When I was with the Raiders, there were three guys that we just never messed with - Donnie Shell, Emmitt Thomas and Louis Wright." We all know how Madden could be but he sounded genuine in his praise and it stuck with me enough that I remember it.

Los Broncos
12-08-2011, 12:36 PM
He was extremely good. Unquestionably the second best CB the team has ever had. Was in 5 Pro Bowls and would have been more if he played in Pittsburgh or New York -- he wasn't a "look at me!!!" guy and didn't get much national media love.

I remember somewhere around '84 or '85, John Madden was doing the game (I know, consider the source) and Wright picked off a pass. Madden got excited and said "I don't know why anybody would throw at Louis Wright like that! When I was with the Raiders, there were three guys that we just never messed with - Donnie Shell, Emmitt Thomas and Louis Wright." We all know how Madden could be but he sounded genuine in his praise and it stuck with me enough that I remember it.

It was vs the Cowboys at MH, I have it on disk.

Too bad I cant find more games with him.

TomServo
12-08-2011, 03:17 PM
How good was L Wright? probably not close to Champ but just curious.
go rewatch "the drive" game to find an answer to that question.
Oh you kids. like grandpa simpson once said "I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too."
in the future when some other bronco cb or other defensive player gets the best ever label you will try to explain champ bailey to the young know it alls and they will laugh at you. not because he isnt one the best ever but because they didnt see him play so therefore he doesnt count.

Agamemnon
12-08-2011, 03:25 PM
Champ is the only one so far who's going to the HOF.

That reflects more on the Hall of Fame than on the players. A Bronco fan should know that...

Bacchus
12-08-2011, 04:20 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_19494180

Kiszla: Champ Bailey best defensive player in Broncos history

To tell the truth, cornerback Champ Bailey didn't expect to be here. He didn't expect to be in first place. Heck, he didn't expect to be in Denver. He was as good as gone from the Broncos a year ago.

"A year ago, I didn't know if the Broncos even wanted me," Bailey said Wednesday. "I didn't know if I would be back. The signs were it wasn't going to happen."

The improbable tale of how Denver became the NFL's best comeback story of 2011 could not have been written without Bailey coming back to town, when he could have found fortune elsewhere. So maybe it's time we recognize this 10-time Pro Bowler for all he's worth: Bailey is the best defensive player in franchise history.

"Thanks," Bailey told me, accepting the praise with humility.

At age 33, he is too busy running down dreams to dwell on his legacy.

But make no mistake. "One of my goals is to be in the Hall of Fame and be mentioned among the greatest," Bailey said.

Declaring Bailey the No. 1 defender ever to wear a Broncos jersey is saying a mouthful, certain to ignite debate. Denver is a franchise with a hard-earned defensive reputation. There are bruises caused from tackles by Rich "Tombstone" Jackson in the 1960s that are yet to heal.

And the hits have kept on coming for decades. Here is one man's opinion of the best five Broncos to draw a line in the dirt and make a defensive stand:

1) Bailey: Thrives despite league rules rigged against him.

2) Steve Atwater: Real MVP of the first Super Bowl victory.

3) Randy Gradishar: Put the pop in the Orange Crush.

4) Karl Mecklenburg: The thinking man's wrecking ball.

5) Louis Wright: Among most underrated corners of all time.



Second half is in the link.

Wow, Champ is by far the greatest defensive player in Broncos' history, and Gradishar is by far the second greatest. Atwater was very good but I always thought he was a little overrated. I would put Louis Wright, Dennis Smith and Karl Mecklenburgh ahead of him.

Bacchus
12-08-2011, 04:24 PM
How good was L Wright? probably not close to Champ but just curious.

Louie Wright was a very good cover CB. He was also a good tackler who would put his body into the tackle. He wasn't as fast as Champ, did not have as good as hands as Champ and could not tackle as well as Champ. Basically he was Champ -1 in everything. He was elite the first 5-7 years and then he dropped off to very good. Champs has pretty much been very elite his whole career which is pretty amazing.

gunns
12-08-2011, 04:53 PM
I know people like to go old school with Gradishar and Atwater and Jackson, etc.
But Champ is the best defensive player in Broncos history. He was voted #2 in Defensive Player of the Year honors twice, and had a very good case both times. 2005 should've been his most definitely and 2006 he just went against an amazing year from Jason Taylor.
Most Pro Bowls in NFL history for a CB.
This year virtually every game he has shut down the opponent receivers.
A complete corner who can tackle.
Made an amazing play in our lone playoff victory the last decade.

I agree Champ is one of the best corners but you can make arguments for players on the Broncos that were in other positions also. As young as you are, not having seen some of the players you talk about, you just don't know. Fortunately too for Champ, the corner position hasn't been one of the elite for the Broncos. Champ could be great not doing a damn thing as QB's tend to shy away from him because they know.

Agamemnon
12-08-2011, 05:00 PM
I agree Champ is one of the best corners but you can make arguments for players on the Broncos that were in other positions also. As young as you are, not having seen some of the players you talk about, you just don't know. Fortunately too for Champ, the corner position hasn't been one of the elite for the Broncos. Champ could be great not doing a damn thing as QB's tend to shy away from him because they know.

And really, who is going to throw at Champ, when the likes of Andre Goodman or Dre Bly are on the other side. Hilarious!