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View Full Version : Archie Manning meddling again?


Gort
12-07-2011, 10:05 AM
ruh roh!

Earlier this week, Archie said that he didn't see a positive scenario in which Luck and Peyton could co-exist.

"I don't think it'd necessarily be great for either one," Manning the elder told Fox Sports Radio. "I think Andrew's the type of mature player ... he can walk right in. I mean, these other three or four [rookie passers] that are playing this year, [if] they can walk in and contribute, Andrew can, too.

"We know Andrew well. He comes down to our camp every year. I used to play with his dad [Oliver, as Houston Oilers quarterbacks in 1982-83]. ... I'm in New York, I heard from him last night.

"Peyton's also tried to help Andrew and kind of be a friend. I doubt if either one want to play on the same team."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Archie-Manning-questions-how-well-Peyton-and-Luc?urn=nfl-wp13373

bronco militia
12-07-2011, 10:08 AM
hehe...hopefully this means the colts are ****ed.

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 10:17 AM
Everything he said is true. And he didn't even mention the fact that if both are on their roster next year, the cap # for the QB position alone will be somewhere around $50 mil, easy. That's not exactly a winning formula.

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Rumors are that Luck's daddy is just as meddlesome as the Mannings' is. Any team that drafts Luck, better be prepared to deal with some major daddy intrusions.

bronco militia
12-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I wish there was a way we could get the patriots involved in this mess......

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 10:29 AM
I wish there was a way we could get the patriots involved in this mess......

I heard on the light rail that Brady is so terrified of Von Miller that he's contemplating retiring prior to next week's game.

Turd_Ferguson
12-07-2011, 10:31 AM
hehe...hopefully this means the colts are ****ed.

If by ****ed you mean having to decided between one of the greatest QBs ever in Manning, and one of the most highly touted pro prospects ever, then yes they are ****ed.

I only wish I could be so ****ed. Maybe have to decided between being a millionaire oil man, or a millionaire stock investor.

ColoradoDarin
12-07-2011, 10:42 AM
Everything he said is true. And he didn't even mention the fact that if both are on their roster next year, the cap # for the QB position alone will be somewhere around $50 mil, easy. That's not exactly a winning formula.

I've seen the number about $28 million. And most of that is Peyton's since the new rookie cap is in place.

I think this is the first salvo in a "trade my son if you draft Luck" by Archie.

Broncbow
12-07-2011, 10:57 AM
Jags trade the farm to get up to No.1 from 3 or 4. They then offer Elway Luck for Tebow. What would Elway do? obvious! How fans react is not...

bronco militia
12-07-2011, 10:59 AM
If by ****ed you mean having to decided between one of the greatest QBs ever in Manning, and one of the most highly touted pro prospects ever, then yes they are ****ed.

I only wish I could be so ****ed. Maybe have to decided between being a millionaire oil man, or a millionaire stock investor.

2012: the colts don't draft luck and peyton is injured in training camp.

SureShot
12-07-2011, 10:59 AM
Jags trade the farm to get up to No.1 from 3 or 4. They then offer Elway Luck for Tebow. What would Elway do? obvious! How fans react is not...


You are an idiot.

WolfpackGuy
12-07-2011, 11:14 AM
Colts would be stupid to trade away or to not draft Luck at all.

What's Manning got left if he EVEN returns to form?

3-4 years maybe?

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 11:15 AM
Does Polian have the balls to cut Peyton, save the $28 million, and then draft Luck?

MplsBronco
12-07-2011, 11:39 AM
If the Colts are smart, they trade Peyton. I love how highly touted this clown is and yet only 2 SB appearances.

bronco militia
12-07-2011, 11:42 AM
If the Colts are smart, they trade Peyton. I love how highly touted this clown is and yet only 2 SB appearances.

http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/lol-manning-troll.jpg

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 11:43 AM
If the Colts are smart, they trade Peyton. I love how highly touted this clown is and yet only 2 SB appearances.

Twice as many as Marino. And Peyton at least won one.

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2011, 11:44 AM
Colts would be stupid to trade away or to not draft Luck at all.

What's Manning got left if he EVEN returns to form?

3-4 years maybe?

3 or 4 years? Manning is a guy who just last season threw for over 30 TDs, over 4000 yards and led a team now looking like it is going to lose every game it plays this year to a 10-6 record, division crown and the playoffs.

do you realize for a team like the Jets who are seemingly a QB away from being a super bowl team, 3 or 4 years with one of the greatest QBs ever would kill for a 3-4 year window with Peyton.

what did Elway accomplish in his final few years?

also, consider that Manning comes back completely healthy. no matter how good Luck is coming out of college, he is not better than a fully healthy Peyton. Would Luck really be fine with sitting on the sidelines for the next 3 or 4 years? all this talk about him says he can come in and be an elite QB almost from jump street, and people think he would be ok with watching from the bench.

BroncoBen
12-07-2011, 11:45 AM
Jags trade the farm to get up to No.1 from 3 or 4. They then offer Elway Luck for Tebow. What would Elway do? obvious! How fans react is not...

This is not so far fetched... the Jags would love to bring Tebow back home and help increase their ticket sales. It will be more telling when the Jags name a new coach, will this coach be Tebow friendly ?

Elway would jump at the chance and just deal with any Fan turmoil.. but for the most part 'Denver Bronco' fans wouldn't have a big problem with it if it was for Luck... its the Tebow fans in the denver area that are vocal who would be screaming.

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 11:47 AM
If the Colts are smart, they trade Peyton. I love how highly touted this clown is and yet only 2 SB appearances.

They'd have to pay him the $28 million first.

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2011, 11:49 AM
If the Colts are smart, they trade Peyton. I love how highly touted this clown is and yet only 2 SB appearances.

highly touted?

damn right the guy is highly touted, he nearly owns every single passing record in NFL history. with his injury and physical limitations right now, he is probably a better QB than at least half the starters in the league.

also, look at this logic. of the 2 best QBs of the last decade, when both have missed a full season from injury look at the collapse of Indy. a team that annually wins around 10-11 games is now flirting with a winless season. Brady went down and his team was still able to go 11-5. Manning is one of the best to ever play the game. like him or not, he deserves all his hype.

gunns
12-07-2011, 12:03 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/lol-manning-troll.jpg

This season isn't all about Manning not playing. Even after Elway retired we got 6 victories. That team was beginning to go downhill last year. Even with Mannings 30 + TD's and 4000 + yds he was the 10th ranked QB in the league. 17 INT's don't help. Their defense is half what it was and they have little running game. They need a lot of help but I think they have to take a QB.

bendog
12-07-2011, 12:04 PM
highly touted?

damn right the guy is highly touted, he nearly owns every single passing record in NFL history. with his injury and physical limitations right now, he is probably a better QB than at least half the starters in the league.

also, look at this logic. of the 2 best QBs of the last decade, when both have missed a full season from injury look at the collapse of Indy. a team that annually wins around 10-11 games is now flirting with a winless season. Brady went down and his team was still able to go 11-5. Manning is one of the best to ever play the game. like him or not, he deserves all his hype.

Agreed, though I think Indy's plan is to cut him. You want a cheap owner, look no further. Since the AFL/NFL merger, I don't think any other FO has actively sought to go 0-16. An epic suck.

edit, Payaton's got a roster bonus due on, as I recall, the fifth day of the 2012 nfl calendar. If Indy cut him now, there might be an injury settlement, though that's probably insured. Still, Indy probably wants him off their roster, and Archie wants to hasten the date.

bronco militia
12-07-2011, 12:10 PM
This season isn't all about Manning not playing. Even after Elway retired we got 6 victories. That team was beginning to go downhill last year. Even with Mannings 30 + TD's and 4000 + yds he was the 10th ranked QB in the league. 17 INT's don't help. Their defense is half what it was and they have little running game. They need a lot of help but I think they have to take a QB.

hogwash! all Curtis Painter needed was the great Josh McDaniels!!!

:giggle::giggle:

Turd_Ferguson
12-07-2011, 12:13 PM
2012: the colts don't draft luck and peyton is injured in training camp.

If there are questions at all about Mannings injury status at draft time then draft Luck.

Any team would be screwed if their starting QB got injured in training camp, thats not something that is unique to the Colts current situation.

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 12:17 PM
Any team would be screwed if their starting QB got injured in training camp, thats not something that is unique to the Colts current situation.

Actually, the Broncos would've been better off.

bendog
12-07-2011, 12:29 PM
Actually, the Broncos would've been better off.

I'm really not sure that's true, given Tebow's first two games and camp performance. And the lockerroom was so depressed by Orton that Tebow became sort of an uplifting thing what with his personality and enthusiasm. The oline is playing better, willis is running better, and the defense is making plays, even though their stats are not very good.

razorwire77
12-07-2011, 12:29 PM
Lol at the Colts being screwed.

They either get Manning cleared to play and trade him for a 1st rounder or two to some team desperate for a fading star to sell tickets.

Or they trade the farm for luck and get 3 1sts and a handful players to rebuild the team and make another run with Manning.

cutthemdown
12-07-2011, 12:33 PM
The biggest thing is Manning has like a 25 million dollar thingy in his contract coming up. Not sure if its a bonus, or just a garauntee salary etc, but they have to decide on that before the draft.

I think Colts trade the pick, even though they may regret that later. They will try and get a boatload for it, retool, and hope Manning can win another superbowl.

Dedhed
12-07-2011, 12:35 PM
Any team would be screwed if their starting QB got injured in training camp, thats not something that is unique to the Colts current situation.

We'd have clinched the division already if our "starter" went down in camp.

bendog
12-07-2011, 12:36 PM
Lol at the Colts being screwed.

They either get Manning cleared to play and trade him for a 1st rounder or two to some team desperate for a fading star to sell tickets.

Or they trade the farm for luck and get 3 1sts and a handful players to rebuild the team and make another run with Manning.

Yeah. Before the lockout Payaton was saying he wasn't gonna take a friendly contract and he expected to remain the highest paid qb. Brady signs a lesser contract. Payaton ends up with a lot less than he'd have gotten before the lockout, and virtually nothing guaranteed. Indy can unload a 35 year old guy with a bad neck and declining skills, not take a hit cap wise or dollar wise, and sign the best qb prospect ... certainly since Stafford, and pay him less than they'd have owed Payaton.

BroncoBeavis
12-07-2011, 12:43 PM
They can't ditch Peyton. Play ANY rookie QB on this horseshoed turd sandwich and they'll look like crap compared to the memory of Peyton in his prime (which is what he'd be competing with)

I don't care if it's Luck. That guy could flame out as well as the next. How'd you like to be the guy that traded Peyton Manning to have a new kid come in and fall on his face?

You take Luck. You keep Peyton at least up until the point he publicly demands a trade, or its clear he's not coming back.

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 12:46 PM
Yeah. Before the lockout Payaton was saying he wasn't gonna take a friendly contract and he expected to remain the highest paid qb. Brady signs a lesser contract. Payaton ends up with a lot less than he'd have gotten before the lockout, and virtually nothing guaranteed. Indy can unload a 35 year old guy with a bad neck and declining skills, not take a hit cap wise or dollar wise, and sign the best qb prospect ... certainly since Stafford, and pay him less than they'd have owed Payaton.

And then here come the Indy fans. :rofl:
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/simpsons-mob-torches.jpg

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Yeah. Before the lockout Payaton was saying he wasn't gonna take a friendly contract and he expected to remain the highest paid qb. Brady signs a lesser contract. Payaton ends up with a lot less than he'd have gotten before the lockout, and virtually nothing guaranteed. Indy can unload a 35 year old guy with a bad neck and declining skills, not take a hit cap wise or dollar wise, and sign the best qb prospect ... certainly since Stafford, and pay him less than they'd have owed Payaton.

That's not true.

If the Colts release Manning and do not pay the $28 million option bonus, he still would count $10.4 million against the 2012 salary cap.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111202/SPORTS03/112020322/Colts-face-defining-decisions-Peyton-Manning-No-1-draft-pick

Pony Boy
12-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Jags trade the farm to get up to No.1 from 3 or 4. They then offer Elway Luck for Tebow. What would Elway do? obvious! How fans react is not...

JFC son ........ Elway would take a a number 1 pick for Tebow from any team.

BroncoBeavis
12-07-2011, 01:01 PM
JFC son ........ Elway would take a a number 1 pick for Tebow from any team.

You mean overall #1 or just 1st round?

Pony Boy
12-07-2011, 01:02 PM
I heard Archie’s interview this morning on the NLF Network and he also said getting a Team ready to play Tebow was like preparing to play Georgia Tech ......... the man is a total tool.

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 01:02 PM
This is the same deal that happened with Bradshaw and Marino at Pittsburgh. Bradshaw had offseason surgery on his elbow and the Steelers thought he would be coming back okay, so they passed on Marino in the draft. Bradshaw wasn't able to come back and Marino went to the Fish.

bendog
12-07-2011, 01:03 PM
That's not true.

If the Colts release Manning and do not pay the $28 million option bonus, he still would count $10.4 million against the 2012 salary cap.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111202/SPORTS03/112020322/Colts-face-defining-decisions-Peyton-Manning-No-1-draft-pick

thanks.

I dunno about Indy fans. If any of them think the colts can back to the superbowl with manning, and his contract, they're on crack. If they find a team that would give them a package of say Clady, Miller and Champ and second rd pick ... Maybe. Elway isn't gonna do that, and I don't think anyone else would.

Luck and the first pick in each round..... They're contending for the playoffs in three years.

Pony Boy
12-07-2011, 01:05 PM
You mean overall #1 or just 1st round?

Not saying I agree but I think Elway would take any teams 1st round pick for Tebow and if we don't make the playoffs, I think he might take less.

BroncoBeavis
12-07-2011, 01:09 PM
Not saying I agree but I think Elway would take any teams 1st round pick for Tebow and if we don't make the playoffs, I think he might take less.

Nah, he's not stupid. Any 1st rounder QB's probably 50/50 going to flame out. If that happens with the guy he traded Tebow for, stick a fork in him.

The Elway legacy in Denver would be finished. He might take that chance for Luck. If he's not assured Luck, it doesn't happen. Even if he still doesn't think Tebow's the guy.

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Not saying I agree but I think Elway would take any teams 1st round pick for Tebow and if we don't make the playoffs, I think he might take less.

I think Bowlen would have something to say about that. Tebow's is the second best selling jersey in the country (behind Rodgers). The TV contracts next year will be huge. How many games will the league want to put Tebow in prime time? Bowlen's not going to let that go. IMO, Tebow is a lock for 2012, at minimum. Some team would have to offer up a Ditka deal to get him.

BroncoBeavis
12-07-2011, 01:13 PM
I think Bowlen would have something to say about that. Tebow's is the second best selling jersey in the country (behind Rodgers). The TV contracts next year will be huge. How many games will the league want to put Tebow in prime time? Bowlen's not going to let that go. IMO, Tebow is a lock for 2012, at minimum. Some team would have to offer up a Ditka deal to get him.

And I'd agree with this on top of what I already said. Elway might still want to make a move for luck. I think his leash would get tugged pretty good if he tried though.

bendog
12-07-2011, 01:15 PM
I think Bowlen would have something to say about that. Tebow's is the second best selling jersey in the country (behind Rodgers). The TV contracts next year will be huge. How many games will the league want to put Tebow in prime time? Bowlen's not going to let that go. IMO, Tebow is a lock for 2012, at minimum. Some team would have to offer up a Ditka deal to get him.

Yeah. I mean I'm not completely sold on Tebow, yet. He's shown enough to get an offseason and 12 imo. But simply as a football fan, if a team gives me a one, and I can use my ones in 12 and 13 to get a Luck, I'd do it. I'd give my one and a one from Tebow for Tyler Wilson, though he won't come out in 12. However, I don't care enough about tebowmania to wipe my ass on it. I just want a qb who doesn't rape girls or kill dogs and is elite.

But Bowlen is selling entertainment to people who don't sit around watching games over and over.

Rohirrim
12-07-2011, 01:16 PM
And given that Dec. 21st, 2012 is the last day of Earth, the rest is moot. ;D

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 01:18 PM
I think Bowlen would have something to say about that. Tebow's is the second best selling jersey in the country (behind Rodgers).

It doesn't work that way. Bowlen doesn't get an extra dime, even if the top 50 jerseys are all Broncos.


The TV contracts next year will be huge. How many games will the league want to put Tebow in prime time? Bowlen's not going to let that go. IMO, Tebow is a lock for 2012, at minimum. Some team would have to offer up a Ditka deal to get him.

Same here. The TV contract is already etched in stone. It doesn't matter how many primetime games the Broncos get. Bowlen's cut of the profits is the same.

The ONLY thing Bowlen doesn't have to share equally is the game day money (parking, luxury boxes, concessions, etc.) And there's not much fluctuation there since Denver sells out every game and has more or less the same "real" attendance every week.

bendog
12-07-2011, 01:22 PM
Bowlen keeps the Club seat money.

Turd_Ferguson
12-07-2011, 01:23 PM
We'd have clinched the division already if our "starter" went down in camp.

Or if Tebow started the year and did as poorly as he did in his first three starts the coaching staff may have given him a shorter leash considering pocket sloth looked soooo good in training camp and practice, said F the Tebow experiment, put pocket sloth back in, watched him fail for a few weeks, then put in Quinn to stink it up, and then drafted Andrew Luck.

Pony Boy
12-07-2011, 01:23 PM
I think Bowlen would have something to say about that. Tebow's is the second best selling jersey in the country (behind Rodgers). The TV contracts next year will be huge. How many games will the league want to put Tebow in prime time? Bowlen's not going to let that go. IMO, Tebow is a lock for 2012, at minimum. Some team would have to offer up a Ditka deal to get him.

Well, I hope your right but I still see the pain in Elway’s face it's obvious he's having a hard time swallowing this. As for Bowlen, I think all Elway has to do is keep his scotch glass full and make sure he gets him to his water coloring class on time.

BroncoBeavis
12-07-2011, 01:25 PM
It doesn't work that way. Bowlen doesn't get an extra dime, even if the top 50 jerseys are all Broncos.




Same here. The TV contract is already etched in stone. It doesn't matter how many primetime games the Broncos get. Bowlen's cut of the profits is the same.

The ONLY thing Bowlen doesn't have to share equally is the game day money (parking, luxury boxes, concessions, etc.) And there's not much fluctuation there since Denver sells out every game and has more or less the same "real" attendance every week.

I think the early part of this season (Orton time) probably helped Bowlen see that sellouts weren't going to be a foregone conclusion much longer. I think on the course we were on he was one offseason away from serious financial pain.

bendog
12-07-2011, 01:25 PM
I think the pained look is more about the Tebowites than Tebow. Elway thought he was dealing with the fans that were around in the 90s run.

Shotgun Willie
12-07-2011, 01:29 PM
I think the early part of this season (Orton time) probably helped Bowlen see that sellouts weren't going to be a foregone conclusion much longer. I think on the course we were on he was one offseason away from serious financial pain.

No way. There's still a multi-year waiting list and people are weak. Just look at the lockout. People talked tough about boycotting, etc., but they came back and pretended nothing ever happened. He could lose half his season ticket holders tomorrow and he'd easily fill it back up with the waiting list.

Turd_Ferguson
12-07-2011, 01:36 PM
I heard Archie’s interview this morning on the NLF Network and he also said getting a Team ready to play Tebow was like preparing to play Georgia Tech ......... the man is a total tool.


So he said Denver has an offense unlike any other in the NFL, and that most teams aren't prepared to face such an offense since they only see it once a year if ever? Its true, and its not necessarily a bad thing.

Agamemnon
12-07-2011, 01:44 PM
Manning trying to screw the Colts' future. Hmm...

I've never bought into the "Manning is a selfish douche" line of thinking until now.

BroncoBeavis
12-07-2011, 02:05 PM
No way. There's still a multi-year waiting list and people are weak. Just look at the lockout. People talked tough about boycotting, etc., but they came back and pretended nothing ever happened. He could lose half his season ticket holders tomorrow and he'd easily fill it back up with the waiting list.

I've heard an anecdote or two that convinced me that the waiting list isn't nearly as far out as they like to quote in public.

Let me put it this way.... if we'd finished something like 3-13 again this year and we still had KO at the top of the depth chart, I'm 80% sure I wouldn't have renewed my season tickets. And when some of those waiting list folks saw the price tag for the opportunity to watch a losing team, they'd decide to go to the back of the line vs. paying through the nose for crap on rye.

In fact, the Broncos are lucky that most people thought Tebow would be the starter back when they were selling season tickets, because they would've burned through a bunch more on the waiting list had people known old "Best Chance to Win" was going to headline again.

And selling the tickets is only half the battle. If you don't actually fill those seats, a ton of revenue walks.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-07-2011, 08:01 PM
And given that Dec. 21st, 2012 is the last day of Earth, the rest is moot. ;D

crap now we have to win the superbowl this year !!!!!!!!!!!!!:pray::holyguac!

Agamemnon
12-07-2011, 08:12 PM
I've heard an anecdote or two that convinced me that the waiting list isn't nearly as far out as they like to quote in public.

Let me put it this way.... if we'd finished something like 3-13 again this year and we still had KO at the top of the depth chart, I'm 80% sure I wouldn't have renewed my season tickets. And when some of those waiting list folks saw the price tag for the opportunity to watch a losing team, they'd decide to go to the back of the line vs. paying through the nose for crap on rye.

In fact, the Broncos are lucky that most people thought Tebow would be the starter back when they were selling season tickets, because they would've burned through a bunch more on the waiting list had people known old "Best Chance to Win" was going to headline again.

And selling the tickets is only half the battle. If you don't actually fill those seats, a ton of revenue walks.

Tebow and this hot streak probably have saved the sell out streak if you ask me. I really do think it was probably going to end with another losing season and no QB to be excited about.

strafen
12-07-2011, 08:26 PM
Everything he said is true. And he didn't even mention the fact that if both are on their roster next year, the cap # for the QB position alone will be somewhere around $50 mil, easy. That's not exactly a winning formula.

I agree it's not the best situation. Manning would be traded.
The way I look at it is like this; even if both managed to be on the team, Luck won't be unseating Manning anytime soon for at least another 3 years.
Luck, his agent, and for his best interest at heart, are not going to wait 3 years.
That makes Manning the odd man out.

That will be interesting to see how this whole Luck thing unravels on draft day...

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2011, 08:29 PM
Agreed, though I think Indy's plan is to cut him. You want a cheap owner, look no further. Since the AFL/NFL merger, I don't think any other FO has actively sought to go 0-16. An epic suck.

edit, Payaton's got a roster bonus due on, as I recall, the fifth day of the 2012 nfl calendar. If Indy cut him now, there might be an injury settlement, though that's probably insured. Still, Indy probably wants him off their roster, and Archie wants to hasten the date.

while i think you may be right about Indy deciding it might be better to just cut ties with the guy, you have to look at how potential FA might look at that situation.

the team just dumping one of the greatest to ever play the game when it was possible he could return. the bad PR could wind up costing them. it is a tricky situation they are in with Peyton, especially if he returns completely healthy from this surgery.

Agamemnon
12-07-2011, 08:29 PM
I agree it's not the best situation. Manning would be traded.
The way I look at it is like this; even if both managed to be on the team, he won't be unseating Manning anytime soon for at least another 3 years.
Luck, his agent and for his best interest at heart, are not going to wait 3 years.
That makes Manning the odd man out.

That will be interesting to see how this whole Luck thing unravels on draft day...

It would be very interesting to see yet another Stanford QB drafted at #1 refuse to play for the Colts. And if Luck feels like he's looking at riding the bench for three years, I could see it happening.

Agamemnon
12-07-2011, 08:31 PM
while i think you may be right about Indy deciding it might be better to just cut ties with the guy, you have to look at how potential FA might look at that situation.

the team just dumping one of the greatest to ever play the game when it was possible he could return. the bad PR could wind up costing them. it is a tricky situation they are in with Peyton, especially if he returns completely healthy from this surgery.

It's odd to say that the best possible thing for the Colts right now, and going into the future, would be for Manning to retire. Very odd.

Tombstone RJ
12-07-2011, 08:36 PM
Does Polian have the balls to cut Peyton, save the $28 million, and then draft Luck?

that's ice cold, and I'd love to see Polian do just that...

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2011, 08:47 PM
that's ice cold, and I'd love to see Polian do just that...

it can't be done without making the team look bad in the eyes of the players and tht will show when FA think about playing in Indy. the thought of look how this organization treated one of the greatest ever, how are they going to treat an average player will be in the back of every prospective FA Indy has its eyes on for awhile.

as Agamemnon said, the best scenario for the Colts is if Peyton decides to retire. or if they can come to some sort of injury settlement. they draft his replacement and no one is pissed at them for doing it, because Peyton was done or thought no longer capable of playing.

Tombstone RJ
12-07-2011, 08:48 PM
I think Bowlen would have something to say about that. Tebow's is the second best selling jersey in the country (behind Rodgers). The TV contracts next year will be huge. How many games will the league want to put Tebow in prime time? Bowlen's not going to let that go. IMO, Tebow is a lock for 2012, at minimum. Some team would have to offer up a Ditka deal to get him.

this. Tebow is a cash cow for the Broncos and as long as the Broncos are winning I guarantee you Pat would put is boot directly up Elway's ass if he traded Tebow away for anything less than mega-insane tade deal that includes a starting NFL caliber QB, and a whole lot more.

strafen
12-07-2011, 08:55 PM
it can't be done without making the team look bad in the eyes of the players and tht will show when FA think about playing in Indy. the thought of look how this organization treated one of the greatest ever, how are they going to treat an average player will be in the back of every prospective FA Indy has its eyes on for awhile.

as Agamemnon said, the best scenario for the Colts is if Peyton decides to retire. or if they can come to some sort of injury settlement. they draft his replacement and no one is pissed at them for doing it, because Peyton was done or thought no longer capable of playing.

Another important point;
Manning does need to see some action this season if he's cleared to play.
I'm sure eveybody wants to see that going into the off-season where a lot of wheeling and dealing will be happening.
Teams will shy away from that type of injury...

Tombstone RJ
12-07-2011, 09:06 PM
it can't be done without making the team look bad in the eyes of the players and tht will show when FA think about playing in Indy. the thought of look how this organization treated one of the greatest ever, how are they going to treat an average player will be in the back of every prospective FA Indy has its eyes on for awhile.

as Agamemnon said, the best scenario for the Colts is if Peyton decides to retire. or if they can come to some sort of injury settlement. they draft his replacement and no one is pissed at them for doing it, because Peyton was done or thought no longer capable of playing.

nah, not if Manning's neck is questionable. That would be the only justifiable excuse Polian would have for cutting Manning, and rightly so IMHO. If there's any chance Manning goes down on one hit, and stays down because of a neck injury (and more importantly if Indy's doctors tell Polian Manning could be paralyzed with one hit) than its justifiable to cut him and move on.

Hey, Manning is a big boy. He wanted to be the highest paid QB in the league and he got that. Polian has basically let Manning run the entire offense and he's provided a coach that allows for Manning's ego.

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2011, 09:31 PM
nah, not if Manning's neck is questionable. That would be the only justifiable excuse Polian would have for cutting Manning, and rightly so IMHO. If there's any chance Manning goes down on one hit, and stays down because of a neck injury (and more importantly if Indy's doctors tell Polian Manning could be paralyzed with one hit) than its justifiable to cut him and move on.

Hey, Manning is a big boy. He wanted to be the highest paid QB in the league and he got that. Polian has basically let Manning run the entire offense and he's provided a coach that allows for Manning's ego.

if Manning's neck is truly screwed, that is the only way Polian can outright cut him and not be seen as a bad guy out to save a buck. however if Manning's neck is healed and is cleared and capable of playing at his former level, if Polian cut him then, he is seen as a bad guy.

Indy wants Luck and the only way they can get him and all sides, front office, Luck, Manning, and fans will be ok with that is if Manning leaves on his own terms and retires, or is deemed medically unfit to play. if Polian drafts Luck and Manning is 100% again, Luck will be pissed at the prospect of sitting on the bench because he has no shot of unseating Peyton for the starting job, if Manning is healthy and cut the fans will hate Polian for dumping their QB for the new guy. it is a ****ed up situation for Indy right now.

Agamemnon
12-07-2011, 09:40 PM
if Manning's neck is truly screwed, that is the only way Polian can outright cut him and not be seen as a bad guy out to save a buck. however if Manning's neck is healed and is cleared and capable of playing at his former level, if Polian cut him then, he is seen as a bad guy.

Indy wants Luck and the only way they can get him and all sides, front office, Luck, Manning, and fans will be ok with that is if Manning leaves on his own terms and retires, or is deemed medically unfit to play. if Polian drafts Luck and Manning is 100% again, Luck will be pissed at the prospect of sitting on the bench because he has no shot of unseating Peyton for the starting job, if Manning is healthy and cut the fans will hate Polian for dumping their QB for the new guy. it is a ****ed up situation for Indy right now.

Maybe they just draft Kalil #1, and bypass the whole situation. Then draft Tannehill in the 2nd. No one has suggested this possibility, but I honestly think it could happen if they want to avoid the whole mess altogether.

cutthemdown
12-07-2011, 09:42 PM
If Manning can play again, and I think he will, 2-3 yrs at a high level, then the smart move is to make people think you will select Luck no matter what. Drive up the price and try and snag a bunch of help for Manning in the process. Give him a killer defense, better oline etc etc and make a run.

If Manning can't play, then no big deal you tell him to retire, do an injury settlement, cut him, trade him whatever. Then select Luck and start over.

That One Guy
12-07-2011, 10:06 PM
As I understand it, there's three options:

1, Cut Manning outright. You have bad blood between player and team (as team is choosing a rookie over one of the best ever) and if Peyton returns to health, the Colts hate life for a while. Think back to how Peyton's rookie season went. If Peyton is healthy for someone else and the Colts are having that season, what a mess. Then you have to wonder how Luck will do in that situation following Peyton. It's one thing for Denver's QBs to live in Elway's shadow but what if, say, Plummer had been the REASON we lost Elway? No one could succeed in that situation - especially starting out as a rookie.

2, they pay Peyton with the intent to keep him. Then Luck is basically off the table. Archie is conspiring with the Lucks on this and, in my opinion, is just volunteering to be the bad guy so the Lucks get to come in with a clean slate. The Mannings are established enough to bear the brunt of the bad PR that would come with a "pick one or the other" demand. If they choose Peyton over Luck and Peyton doesn't quite return to health, the Colts are sunk for some time and their fan base resents them horribly for what could have been. The only way to avoid the backlash is trade the #1 for an obscene amount of picks that they can later sell as being even better for the franchise than a single highly touted QB.

3, Pay Manning with the intent to trade him. The problem here is that no other team is going to pay Manning that $28 mil bonus so Manning would be stupid to defer it. He seems to be a person who will readily admit he's not going to screw himself over to help the team. He'd be walking away from $28 Million in order to help the team who is choosing a rookie over him, as well. It's not going to happen. I read that if they pay Manning and trade him, it'll count $38 million against their cap next year. That's a quarter of the cap on a player not on the roster.

This is quite a predicament to be in for the Colts. I hope they blow it and end up a terrible franchise for years to come.

Bacchus
12-07-2011, 11:12 PM
I heard there was a rumor that Elway wants to trade Tebow to the Jags they Jags would trade some pics to the Colts and the Colts would trade Manning to Denver.

If healthy Manning in a Broncos uniform would look pretty damn good.

cutthemdown
12-07-2011, 11:20 PM
I heard there was a rumor that Elway wants to trade Tebow to the Jags they Jags would trade some pics to the Colts and the Colts would trade Manning to Denver.

If healthy Manning in a Broncos uniform would look pretty damn good.

No you didn't. You just made it up. Go away and stfu.

cutthemdown
12-07-2011, 11:21 PM
that's ice cold, and I'd love to see Polian do just that...

Would the owner let him?

Agamemnon
12-07-2011, 11:25 PM
I heard there was a rumor that Elway wants to trade Tebow to the Jags they Jags would trade some pics to the Colts and the Colts would trade Manning to Denver.

If healthy Manning in a Broncos uniform would look pretty damn good.

Effectively trading Tebow for a guy who is one bad hit from being done, and who is likely retired in 3 or 4 years either way would just make me ill. Seriously, that would likely end up being one of the all time worst trades in NFL history...

strafen
12-07-2011, 11:28 PM
I heard there was a rumor that Elway wants to trade Tebow to the Jags they Jags would trade some pics to the Colts and the Colts would trade Manning to Denver.

If healthy Manning in a Broncos uniform would look pretty damn good.At this stage in Manning's career, I don't think I'd take him, much less giving up Tebow in the process...

BroncoMan4ever
12-07-2011, 11:52 PM
Maybe they just draft Kalil #1, and bypass the whole situation. Then draft Tannehill in the 2nd. No one has suggested this possibility, but I honestly think it could happen if they want to avoid the whole mess altogether.

i think if Manning's neck is healed that is the way they should go. Tannehill has good potential and sitting and watching Manning for a few years would be a huge benefit to him.

with Luck if they keep both you run the risk of pissing him off and then he decides to leave as a FA and leave that team with nothing.

ol#7
12-07-2011, 11:56 PM
The only scenario even close to this was when the 49ers cut ties with Montana in favor of Young. Worked out for them, but Young wasnt a rookie. I dont think Favre and Rodgers compares since Favre kept telling everyone he was retiring, plus they didnt seek out his replacement, he fell to them.

If I am the Colts, I swallow hard and trade out of that spot and let Manning continue to be the face of the franchise, looking for the next great thing in 3-4-5 years.

If they take Luck, there will be a ton of pressure on him in Mannings shadow on a team that likely went 0-16. How does he succeed in that scenario?

Armchair Bronco
12-08-2011, 06:43 AM
The only player I'd trade Tebow for is...

TEBOW!

Rohirrim
12-08-2011, 07:04 AM
If the Colts decide to keep Manning, they could also say the price for Luck is the #2 pick, plus other picks, etc. Then, some team makes a deal to get the #2 and makes the trade with the Colts, who then say, "If you want Barkley, we want the #3 pick plus..." and so on. They could walk away with Kalil and a **** load of picks, including future firsts.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 07:12 AM
If the Colts decide to keep Manning, they could also say the price for Luck is the #2 pick, plus other picks, etc. Then, some team makes a deal to get the #2 and makes the trade with the Colts, who then say, "If you want Barkley, we want the #3 pick plus..." and so on. They could walk away with Kalil and a **** load of picks, including future firsts.

Not sure the #2 would trade much for the #1 knowing the spot Indy is in. They'd be more likely to stare Indy down, daring them to pick Luck.

Of course it's really speculative now. I'm guessing Indy will know a lot more about where Peyton is healthwise by draft time.

bendog
12-08-2011, 07:25 AM
One of the old posters, I think Hercules, opined that the Colts wouldn't keep Manning and ship Luck for picks because Manning's window is three years tops, and if they kept Manning they'd want proven, but young, vets. Imo that is logical, except with the new CBA draft picks cost less $ than guys who signed under the old cba but who are still in their initial contract. Irsay's notoriously cheap, and Indy's a small market. So, I think the chances of them paying Manning the 25 mil roster bonus are slim.

I wonder if a team like SF that has a strong defense and running game would give up a conditional pick in 13 for Manning.

That One Guy
12-08-2011, 07:57 AM
One of the old posters, I think Hercules, opined that the Colts wouldn't keep Manning and ship Luck for picks because Manning's window is three years tops, and if they kept Manning they'd want proven, but young, vets. Imo that is logical, except with the new CBA draft picks cost less $ than guys who signed under the old cba but who are still in their initial contract. Irsay's notoriously cheap, and Indy's a small market. So, I think the chances of them paying Manning the 25 mil roster bonus are slim.

I wonder if a team like SF that has a strong defense and running game would give up a conditional pick in 13 for Manning.

In one breath you say they wont pay Manning the roster bonus then in the next you say they should trade him. Follow the thread, man. They have to pay the bonus to trade. It'll cost them $28 mil in new money and $38 mil against next year's cap to trade him.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 09:45 AM
Maybe they just draft Kalil #1, and bypass the whole situation. Then draft Tannehill in the 2nd. No one has suggested this possibility, but I honestly think it could happen if they want to avoid the whole mess altogether.

I think if they want out of it, they'd be much better off trading the 1 to whoever's willing to sell their soul for Luck. Even if Manning makes it back ok, this team needs a major overhaul over the next few years and a load of picks from a team drunk on Luck would be the best thing.

Shotgun Willie
12-08-2011, 09:49 AM
I think if they want out of it, they'd be much better off trading the 1 to whoever's willing to sell their soul for Luck. Even if Manning makes it back ok, this team needs a major overhaul over the next few years and a load of picks from a team drunk on Luck would be the best thing.

I wonder how the Colts would've looked the last 10+ years had they gone that route instead of drafting Manning. I'm guessing they would've sucked, just like they did every year before drafting Manning.

bendog
12-08-2011, 09:51 AM
In one breath you say they wont pay Manning the roster bonus then in the next you say they should trade him. Follow the thread, man. They have to pay the bonus to trade. It'll cost them $28 mil in new money and $38 mil against next year's cap to trade him.

no I said they'd cut him. I wondered, hypothedically, if he had any trade value at this pt of his career.

That One Guy
12-08-2011, 10:04 AM
no I said they'd cut him. I wondered, hypothedically, if he had any trade value at this pt of his career.

Ahh... misunderstood ya, then. My apologies.

I think if the Colts absorb that 28 M payment, other teams would trade for him but that'd be pretty silly for the Colts to do. They'd have to get a bounty in return to make it worthwhile and I don't see how a team can risk too much on Manning at this point. If, hypothetically, they could delay his bonus but guarantee it for him so that maybe another team would pick it up, I don't think any teams would pay Peyton the bonus and trade a pick for him.

Pony Boy
12-08-2011, 10:10 AM
All I can say is, it would be nice to have that problem on you hands ...........hummm Manning or Luck or both or one and a crap load of draft picks. The rich get richer!

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
I wonder how the Colts would've looked the last 10+ years had they gone that route instead of drafting Manning. I'm guessing they would've sucked, just like they did every year before drafting Manning.

No way to know. What history has shown since is that a #1 overall QB <> Peyton Manning.

Unless it's a lock that Manning is too hurt to return, it would be crazy to get rid of him for what could easily turn out to be fool's gold.

It's the one in the hand worth 2 in the bush thing again

(although that's the opposite of my own personal feeling ;D)

That One Guy
12-08-2011, 10:15 AM
No way to know. What history has shown since is that a #1 overall QB <> Peyton Manning.

Unless it's a lock that Manning is too hurt to return, it would be crazy to get rid of him for what could easily turn out to be fool's gold.

It's the one in the hand worth 2 in the bush thing again

(although that's the opposite of my own personal feeling ;D)

But the only thing the Colts fans have won this year is the Luck sweepstakes. If Luck is the surest thing ever, to trade him for multiple lesser sure things may not feel sufficient.

I think the Colts as a team are in a decent position to benefit from this but the Colts fanbase is likely going to be disappointed. Either because it's not going to be enough in return or because Manning isn't going to return to form or because the players they get in return for Luck flop, there's too much room for this to go wrong.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 10:32 AM
But the only thing the Colts fans have won this year is the Luck sweepstakes. If Luck is the surest thing ever, to trade him for multiple lesser sure things may not feel sufficient.

I think the Colts as a team are in a decent position to benefit from this but the Colts fanbase is likely going to be disappointed. Either because it's not going to be enough in return or because Manning isn't going to return to form or because the players they get in return for Luck flop, there's too much room for this to go wrong.

Think of it this way. If Manning ends up playing for another team and Luck doesn't start taking the Colts to the playoffs almost immediately, it will almost instantly be called the Colts' "Manning Curse"

You get rid of Manning, you're betting the farm on Luck. The whole FO will be looking for work if the Colts lose while Manning's looking good in another uniform. Even if the Colts' problems this year go beyond QB. Doesn't matter.

Far safer for the franchise to keep Peyton until he decides to retire or it's established he can't do it anymore. Hopefully he'll do the right thing and commit to playing in front of the kid for his last few years (if he can). and restructuring to make it workable.

Coming out of his career looking like a good team guy like that will probably pay for itself in endorsements anyway.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 10:38 AM
Or put another way... all Tebows aside. If you asked me as a Broncos fan whether I'd rather get a shot at drafting Luck, or 4 years of Peyton Manning behind center... I'd take Manning.

Tombstone RJ
12-08-2011, 12:33 PM
This all hinges on Manning's health and that's where the controversy will exist. If the Colts medical staff simply cannot guarantee Manning's health while Manning's personal doctors say "he's fine" then what does Polian do? Does he risk keeping Manning if the Colts medical staff is not 100% sure about Manning's future?

If there is some kind of a consensus by all the doctors and they all can agree that Manning has fully recovered and is 100% ok to play then I think Polian keeps Manning and trades the #1 pick. However, if there is even a slight possibility that Manning is risking serious injury due to his neck if he continues to play then I think Polian has a legitimate excuse to draft Luck and start over. However, this is where the controversy will come into play because if Manning goes on to play for the next 5 years and has a great career than Polian looks silly or reactionary.

WolfpackGuy
12-08-2011, 12:48 PM
Even with Manning, the Colts window is likely almost closed with what good players they do have.

They have to start looking ahead.

I'm just not sold on him coming back healthy.

BroncoBeavis
12-08-2011, 01:20 PM
Even with Manning, the Colts window is likely almost closed with what good players they do have.

They have to start looking ahead.

I'm just not sold on him coming back healthy.

To me, that's why this is a prime opportunity to stack up on picks over the next couple years and try to build a team for one last run with Manning.

Plugging a new QB into this team isn't going to fix anything. At least not as long as Indianapolis' expectations are contending for a title every year.

Agamemnon
12-08-2011, 03:15 PM
If the Colts decide to keep Manning, they could also say the price for Luck is the #2 pick, plus other picks, etc. Then, some team makes a deal to get the #2 and makes the trade with the Colts, who then say, "If you want Barkley, we want the #3 pick plus..." and so on. They could walk away with Kalil and a **** load of picks, including future firsts.

If I'm sitting at #2 and I want a QB, I just shrug and take Barkley. He's just as good a prospect, just not as much hype. No reason to trade up for Luck in that situation.