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View Full Version : 1st/2nd half playcalling differences (with caps).


tsiguy96
12-04-2011, 04:22 PM
Why is there consistently such a discrepancy between 1st and 2nd half playcalling? Anyone have any explanation for this? I realize they are FORCED to play better and more aggressive in 2nd half or just lose the game, but I dont get why they dont open it up atleast a little earlier?

Maybe they are running 3 downs early to see if they can win the game without passing like the Raiders/Chiefs game...

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 04:24 PM
Only the flies on foxes office walls know its absolutely infuriating from a fans standpoint.

IHaveALight
12-04-2011, 04:26 PM
It's all about starting with a game plan and then making adjustments after seeing what the other team is doing.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 04:27 PM
Why is there consistently such a discrepancy between 1st and 2nd half playcalling? Anyone have any explanation for this? I realize they are FORCED to play better and more aggressive in 2nd half or just lose the game, but I dont get why they dont open it up atleast a little earlier?

Maybe they are running 3 downs early to see if they can win the game without passing like the Raiders/Chiefs game...

What aggravates me is that they doggedly stick to run, run, run, even when it's not effective. If you are getting good chunks every time you run, fine, but when you are getting stuffed half the time, you have to use the pass game or you're just going to be punting all day.

Armchair Bronco
12-04-2011, 04:48 PM
McCoy is an enigma. What was he thinking NOT having Tebow run when it was third and inches? If he doesn't get this, he doesn't get it. I still maintain that Tebow is winning IN SPITE of the play calling, not because of it.

oubronco
12-04-2011, 04:59 PM
Whatever it is it just seems to work

go_broncos
12-04-2011, 05:02 PM
Fox wants Tebow to lose so that they can select their QB.

Wes Mantooth
12-04-2011, 05:12 PM
I refuse to complain about winning

McDman
12-04-2011, 05:21 PM
What aggravates me is that they doggedly stick to run, run, run, even when it's not effective. If you are getting good chunks every time you run, fine, but when you are getting stuffed half the time, you have to use the pass game or you're just going to be punting all day.

Well, it did force the? Tp put 8 in the box which led to DT dominating.

Bacchus
12-04-2011, 05:27 PM
I refuse to complain about winning

Exactly, Fox stated that they have no idea how the defense will play against their spread/option offense. So everything is new. Once they get these teams on film they wil be able to attack them more efficiently earlier in the game.

I do not understand why people get angry with the runs up the middle. A lot of those are read options where tebow decides if he will hand the ball off or keep it. McGahee is having a career year so what is the problem with the runs up the middle again? There was a 24 yard TD run that was basically up the middle. Teams are going to have to spend a lot of time on defending the read option but they will not have to if Denver stops running the ball up the middle. You have to keep the pressure on the defense. Every time Denver fakes the run up the middle the defense is attacking that RB taking the defender out of the play because he is tackling a guy who does not have the ball.

This is simple football, surley everyone can see this. I believe denver will pass more as the coaches can see tebow can handle the extra workload with out throwing INTs and making costly mistakes, but while they run this offense the RB dive will be a vital part of it. It really sets everyting else up.

Popps
12-04-2011, 05:28 PM
We just win every week... and every week the coaches are idiots.

Here's a thought to consider... maybe they have some clue what they're doing?

Maybe there's a method to what you're seeing?

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 05:40 PM
We just win every week... and every week the coaches are idiots.

Here's a thought to consider... maybe they have some clue what they're doing?

Maybe there's a method to what you're seeing?


They thought about having only 1 firstdown in the first half? they thought punting every series cause they refused to throw the ball was good coaching? i saw piss poor play calling again in the first half and them letting tebow throw the ball proved it.

They do this every week and we have to win it in the second half again now the question is (do we have to win games like this every week)? or is playing in the first half till the end of the game a bad idea?


Yes we are winning but i think our team needs some improvement in the play calling department cause i dont see how running the ball into a brick wall on 3rd down and then punting puts points on the board.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 05:43 PM
They thought about having only 1 firstdown in the first half? they thought punting every series cause they refused to throw the ball was good coaching? i saw piss poor play calling again in the first half and them letting tebow throw the ball proved it.

They do this every week and we have to win it in the second half again now the question is (do we have to win games like this every week)? or is playing in the first half till the end of the game a bad idea?


Yes we are winning but i think our team needs some improvement in the play calling department cause i dont see how running the ball into a brick wall on 3rd down and then punting puts points on the board.

It's a weak argument that has no basis in reality that claims the coaches are doing the right thing running on long 3rd downs and punting, much less that that has actually been helping us win games.

Popps
12-04-2011, 05:44 PM
They thought about having only 1 firstdown in the first half? they thought punting every series cause they refused to throw the ball was good coaching? i saw piss poor play calling again in the first half and them letting tebow throw the ball proved it.

They do this every week and we have to win it in the second half again now the question is (do we have to win games like this every week)? or is playing in the first half till the end of the game a bad idea?


Yes we are winning but i think our team needs some improvement in the play calling department cause i dont see how running the ball into a brick wall on 3rd down and then punting puts points on the board.


They're throwing the ball when they need to.

It's working.

When it stops working, I assume they'll make changes.

Jay3
12-04-2011, 05:45 PM
Fox mentioned this in the presser -- in a very cryptic way -- about we need to make an "adjustment" sooner. I think he wants to hold his staff accountable to adjust the playcalling sooner than the second half.

vonqkilla
12-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Its not just 1st vs 2nd. Its are within 6 pts, run run run

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 05:46 PM
They're throwing the ball when they need to.

It's working.

When it stops working, I assume they'll make changes.

It will bite us in the ass someday i just prefer to play 4 solid quarters instead of 2.

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 05:48 PM
Fox mentioned this in the presser -- in a very cryptic way -- about we need to make an "adjustment" sooner. I think he wants to hold his staff accountable to adjust the playcalling sooner than the second half.


That's exactly what i am getting at i am glad fox at least recognizes the problem.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 05:50 PM
Well, it did force the? Tp put 8 in the box which led to DT dominating.

That will happen with a more balanced attack as well. Teams know how well we can run, and if they play standard seven man fronts against us, we'll destroy them. That's the point. We need to be more balanced, let the defense pick their poison and then shove said poison straight down their throat. Constantly running against eight man fronts is the opposite of that approach...

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 05:50 PM
That safety should have never happened and the poor play call should take the blame i was praying those 2 points didn't come back to haunt us.

vonqkilla
12-04-2011, 05:51 PM
When we show run on third and short, it fails, see mcgahee after Teebs 1st down 8 yard run last week. Again after 8 yard gain on 1st, run, run, punt.

When we show by formation we could run or pass, we can gain a yard everytime. 3Rd and 2 or more, teams blitz our run and it fails. See the safety also.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 05:52 PM
When we show run on third and short, it fails, see mcgahee after Teebs 1st down 8 yard run last week. Again after 8 yard gain on 1st, run, run, punt.

When we show by formation we could run or pass, we can a yard everytime. 3Rd and 2 or more, teams blitz our run and it fails.

Another excellent point. The fact that we are so often so predictable out of certain situations and formations does not help things at all. A big one for me is the fact that if Tebow lines up under center it's a run 90+% of the time. do you think defenses don't see that massive tendency?

WolfpackGuy
12-04-2011, 05:54 PM
They gotta start run faking on short yardage.

The big plays are there with opposing defenses selling out to overwhelm the Broncos' blockers.

Apparently, just faking once a game is asking too much.

Armchair Bronco
12-04-2011, 05:57 PM
Let's not forget that while Tebow is trying to improve each week, he's also responsible for mentoring McCoy on the read option. When your rook knows more than the OC and is also his mentor, don't be surprised if the play calling bites.

:facepalm:

TheReverend
12-04-2011, 05:58 PM
They just don't want to do it until their hand is forced... but it'd be nice if they decided to play with a lead for once :/

We should come out of the gate throwing vs NE or there's prayer of victory.

vonqkilla
12-04-2011, 06:01 PM
Another thing. I dont care if it is the first or last play of the game, backed up inside the 2, use a hard count. I have yet to see Teebs ever draw a def offsides. Jared Allen jumped ” go” so fast, green was toast.

Jared Allen is a damn beast!

Clady vs Allen was a battle, I call it a draw. The safety he was wide 9 past green, and the strip sack was not on clady to me. Not sure if JA flushed or beat Clady. Was fun to watch!
Should be replayed.

Dedhed
12-04-2011, 06:02 PM
What aggravates me is that they doggedly stick to run, run, run, even when it's not effective. If you are getting good chunks every time you run, fine, but when you are getting stuffed half the time, you have to use the pass game or you're just going to be punting all day.

What aggravates me is that they revert to run,run, run when passing is proving effective.

They come out in the 2nd half and march down the field and score a TD with a balanced run/pass mix.

2nd possession: 3 runs and punt.

As soon as we get behind we open things up, even if only a little, and we put points on the board. As soon as we get ahead, or close, they throw the clamps back on.

I'm not asking for 35 passes from Tebow, but is mixing in a 1st down pass every now and again too much to ask?

Can I please get a single scripted roll-out pass?

vonqkilla
12-04-2011, 06:05 PM
Another excellent point. The fact that we are so often so predictable out of certain situations and formations does not help things at all. A big one for me is the fact that if Tebow lines up under center it's a run 90+% of the time. do you think defenses don't see that massive tendency?

If I do they certainly do. PA was killing today, we need more if that, esp on 2nd and first down.

Inkana7
12-04-2011, 06:07 PM
Let's not forget that while Tebow is trying to improve each week, he's also responsible for mentoring McCoy on the read option. When your rook knows more than the OC and is also his mentor, don't be surprised if the play calling bites.

:facepalm:

Wait what

sgbfan
12-04-2011, 06:07 PM
McCoy is an enigma. What was he thinking NOT having Tebow run when it was third and inches? If he doesn't get this, he doesn't get it. I still maintain that Tebow is winning IN SPITE of the play calling, not because of it.

The 2 3rd and short plays and the Safety, they ran the exact same play, a delay handoff to the middle. Try something different. Sneak tebow. Playaction and have tebow roll out with a recieving option, or run a quick hitter. Because of the 3 and outs, the safety, and the int for TD, the defense had played about 20-25 plays to about 10 for the offense. Our defense got tired and it showed in the second half.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 06:12 PM
The 2 3rd and short plays and the Safety, they ran the exact same play, a delay handoff to the middle. Try something different. Sneak tebow. Playaction and have tebow roll out with a recieving option, or run a quick hitter. Because of the 3 and outs, the safety, and the int for TD, the defense had played about 20-25 plays to about 10 for the offense. Our defense got tired and it showed in the second half.

Passing off of play action on 3rd and short when you are a running team is and will always be money. Not sure why McCoy and Fox don't get that, but they clearly don't. And hell you call a pass play on 3rd and short, and there's still a good chance Tebow runs for it anyway...

BroncoBen
12-04-2011, 06:18 PM
We just win every week... and every week the coaches are idiots.

Here's a thought to consider... maybe they have some clue what they're doing?

Maybe there's a method to what you're seeing?

No kidding, people make it sound like the couching staff are a bunch of bumbeling idiots. Its the coaching and the players executing the plays.. coach fox for coach of the year.

sgbfan
12-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Passing off of play action on 3rd and short when you are a running team is and will always be money. Not sure why McCoy and Fox don't get that, but they clearly don't. And hell you call a pass play on 3rd and short, and there's still a good chance Tebow runs for it anyway...

All it takes is for the DE to hesitate and tebow will beat him to the edge. I'd love to see a CB take him head on if he only needs 1 yard. Thats if the TE isn't wide open on the fake. Or, QB sneak, If any QB can get a yard on a sneak, its Tebow.

Bacchus
12-04-2011, 06:40 PM
That safety should have never happened and the poor play call should take the blame i was praying those 2 points didn't come back to haunt us.

The safety should 'never have happened'??? That **** happens all the time when you are inside your one yard line. What would have done? I suppose you would have had Tebow throw from inside the one? Hind sight is always 20/20. Were you criticizing the play calling when Mcgahee ran the 24 yard td?

vonqkilla
12-04-2011, 06:40 PM
All it takes is for the DE to hesitate and tebow will beat him to the edge. I'd love to see a CB take him head on if he only needs 1 yard. Thats if the TE isn't wide open on the fake. Or, QB sneak, If any QB can get a yard on a sneak, its Tebow.

jared allen quote ” we didnt let him run on us, so that's a plus I guess, I wouldve bet my paycheck he wouldnt beat us with his arm”.

Bacchus
12-04-2011, 06:41 PM
No kidding, people make it sound like the couching staff are a bunch of bumbeling idiots. Its the coaching and the players executing the plays.. coach fox for coach of the year.

this

tsiguy96
12-04-2011, 06:41 PM
They just don't want to do it until their hand is forced... but it'd be nice if they decided to play with a lead for once :/

We should come out of the gate throwing vs NE or there's prayer of victory.

not sure thats a good idea, to get into a passing match vs the patriots. i know their secondary sucks, but that may be one team where its worth it to just try and beat them up with runs, and not try to get into a scoring match with them? its nice having the option of potentially doing either, though.

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 06:44 PM
The safety should 'never have happened'??? That **** happens all the time when you are inside your one yard line. What would have done? I suppose you would have had Tebow throw from inside the one? Hind sight is always 20/20. Were you criticizing the play calling when Mcgahee ran the 24 yard td?



safeties happen all the time? and i would be open to almost anything other than running willie up the gut and i have no idea what your asking here what the **** does that have to do with the safety?.

Bacchus
12-04-2011, 06:44 PM
not sure thats a good idea, to get into a passing match vs the patriots. i know their secondary sucks, but that may be one team where its worth it to just try and beat them up with runs, and not try to get into a scoring match with them? its nice having the option of potentially doing either, though.

I agree with this. Denver will not be able to get into a shooting match with the Pats and win, but if they run the ball 40-50 times for over 200 yards they stand a very good chance of beating them.

Bacchus
12-04-2011, 06:46 PM
safeties happen all the time?

When you start inside the one they do.

You didn't answer the question. What play should have the Broncos run when it is first down inside the 1?

Any play can be good and any play can be bad. It comes down to execution.

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 06:48 PM
When you start inside the one they do.

You didn't answer the question. What play should have the Broncos run when it is first down inside the 1?

Any play can be good and any play can be bad. It comes down to execution.



No they dont but i guess we can agree to disagree i said i was open to most anything other than running right up the middle.

Broncbow
12-04-2011, 06:49 PM
F U Tebow, you only pass it when we are behind. When the defense says you can pass then and only then will yo be allowed to pass.

Its a really complicated offense, because it actually results from what the opponents offense does the first half not what their defense does, cause no matter what the opponents defense does we run it, that is until we are forced to because their offenses scores on our defense. If they score 14 and we have 7 we throw, if they have 32 and we have 28 we throw, that is how we roll. Can't let Tebow throw unless he absolutely has to throw, that how we roll.

FOX is a joke.

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 06:50 PM
F U Tebow, you only pass it when we are behind. When the defense says you can pass then and only then will yo be allowed to pass.

Its a really complicated offense, because it actually results from what the opponents offense does the first half not what their defense does, cause no matter what the opponents defense does we run it, that is until we are forced to because their offenses scores on our defense. If they score 14 and we have 7 we throw, if they have 32 and we have 28 we throw, that is how we roll. Can't let Tebow throw unless he absolutely has to throw, that how we roll.

FOX is a joke.


HUH?

Bacchus
12-04-2011, 07:01 PM
No they dont but i guess we can agree to disagree i said i was open to most anything other than running right up the middle.

Watch teams that start inside the one. 90% of them start with a run up the middle. You most certainly don't pitch it. Having tebow drop back to pass is also most certainly more risky than running it up the middle. If tebow is sacked 2 points, if there is holding 2 pts. if Tebow is hit and fumbles 7 pts. If tebow throws an INT it could very well be walked into the endzone for a TD.

You run it up the middle and try to get some breathing space. If you get tackled for a loss in the end zone so be it, that is the game of football.

ScottXray
12-04-2011, 07:05 PM
When you start inside the one they do.

You didn't answer the question. What play should have the Broncos run when it is first down inside the 1?

Any play can be good and any play can be bad. It comes down to execution.

QB sneak comes to mind. They keep running drop back and hand it off in these third and short plays and they keep Failing. Quick hits would help with some of these plays. Line up and quick snap with a Sneak on some of these and they will convert more often than not.

Makes me wonder if they are purposely NOT running these to set some of the last opponents up for it.

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 07:05 PM
Watch teams that start inside the one. 90% of them start with a run up the middle. You most certainly don't pitch it. Having tebow drop back to pass is also most certainly more risky than running it up the middle. If tebow is sacked 2 points, if there is holding 2 pts. if Tebow is hit and fumbles 7 pts. If tebow throws an INT it could very well be walked into the endzone for a TD.

You run it up the middle and try to get some breathing space. If you get tackled for a loss in the end zone so be it, that is the game of football.


Only bad part about your theory is the vikes knew we were going to run it and their penetration into the endzone proved it its one thing call that play on the one but its another to call a play knowing the defense knows what your calling. (Fact is it didn't work and we know why)

vonqkilla
12-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Jared Allen jumped the snap count, like I said, inside the 2, hard count!!

It wasnt the play call as much as it was just the best DE in the nfl lined up over a rookie te with big crowd noise, and he was around the corner before green came out of his stance.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-04-2011, 07:25 PM
F U Tebow, you only pass it when we are behind. When the defense says you can pass then and only then will yo be allowed to pass.

Its a really complicated offense, because it actually results from what the opponents offense does the first half not what their defense does, cause no matter what the opponents defense does we run it, that is until we are forced to because their offenses scores on our defense. If they score 14 and we have 7 we throw, if they have 32 and we have 28 we throw, that is how we roll. Can't let Tebow throw unless he absolutely has to throw, that how we roll.

FOX is a joke.

does not compute

briane
12-04-2011, 08:55 PM
I refuse to complain about winning

^ This.

Congrats Broncos on 1 place in the AFC west! Im enjoying the wild ride!

fwf
12-09-2011, 02:14 PM
They gotta start run faking on short yardage.

The big plays are there with opposing defenses selling out to overwhelm the Broncos' blockers.

Apparently, just faking once a game is asking too much.


agreed

jhns
12-09-2011, 02:26 PM
No kidding, people make it sound like the couching staff are a bunch of bumbeling idiots. Its the coaching and the players executing the plays.. coach fox for coach of the year.

Wait, you think Fox calls the offensive plays? He isn't the one people are complaining about when discussing this...

Agamemnon
12-09-2011, 05:28 PM
not sure thats a good idea, to get into a passing match vs the patriots. i know their secondary sucks, but that may be one team where its worth it to just try and beat them up with runs, and not try to get into a scoring match with them? its nice having the option of potentially doing either, though.

Going run, run, run, punt against the Patriots would be much, much worse. We need to start running a more balanced offense if we want to beat the Patriots. Period.

extralife
12-09-2011, 05:30 PM
yeah, this is a great idea, lets just air it out against the Pats. because the strength of our team in that matchup is Tebow vs. Tom Brady, and we want to give the later as many chances as possible to prove it.

it's like you guys never watch football.

Agamemnon
12-09-2011, 05:35 PM
yeah, this is a great idea, lets just air it out against the Pats. because the strength of our team in that matchup is Tebow vs. Tom Brady, and we want to give the later as many chances as possible to prove it.

it's like you guys never watch football.

People advocating that they throw a little bit more rather than run three straight times and punt, are hardly asking for them to "air it out". Stop being a dip****...