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View Full Version : Tim Tebow is an overblown phenomenon


TonyR
12-02-2011, 12:55 PM
This figures to spark some memorable discussion...


THE DREAM OF AMERICA -- a meritocracy -- is the basic draw of sports: your best against mine, the scoreboard oblivious to pedigree, race, class or gender. The promise of pure competition is perhaps the biggest reason we watch.

Except that it's a lie. Merit remains what it has always been: a myth. Pedigree, race, class, gender, politics or something as simple as good looks might not determine sports outcomes as it might, say, Ivy League admissions, but it has always affected the final score -- especially if you happen to monitor more than just points.

Take Andy Dalton, the surprising quarterback of the surprising Bengals. The rookie has put up a fine season, especially given his charge of replacing Pro Bowler Carson Palmer. So have Matthew Stafford in Detroit and the redeemed Alex Smith in San Francisco. Each QB may take his team to the playoffs. Yet the saga of the season revolves around Tim Tebow, the most polarizing figure in the NFL. Since winning Denver's starting job after Week 5 via fan coup, he's shown a determination to win and an ability to shine in crunch time. He has admirable guts and a leader's spirit. He isn't, however, a particularly good quarterback.

Maybe it's the college success, the squeaky-clean image, the in-game toughness, his religion or the underdog, populist nature of his success. Whatever the reason for Tebow becoming a phenomenon, it has little do with merit. He is all passion, for and against, all anecdote, all subjectivity. Where one fan sees a gutsy comeback, another sees that a better QB would have made a comeback unnecessary. Tebow's ball protection is either evidence of leadership or simple probability, for throwing interceptions is really hard to do when you're handing off 50 times a game.

His legend began to grow during a five-game midseason stretch that saw the surging Denver defense give up just 15.5 points per game in four wins. To his minions, Tebow's leadership was responsible for rousing rookie linebacker Von Miller. But his own play was awful. The QB didn't throw for 200 yards once, complete half of his passes against any one opponent or -- outside of the Lions, who mashed him 45-10 -- catch a good team on the upswing. It's clear Tebow is a project, a tough kid trying to find his way, and this is where sports' meritocracy breaks down in favor of star power and the cult of personality.

What makes the fervor surrounding Tebow all the more baffling is that his on-field skill set isn't particularly unusual, for there have been other unorthodox quarterbacks -- Doug Flutie, Fran Tarkenton and Michael Vick, for example -- who constantly fought being measured by what they couldn't do. Other than victory by anemia, we're not seeing anything new.

For the most recent history lesson, enter Vince Young -- national college champion, electric runner and big athlete. In 2006, he took up under center for the Titans, and the needle screeched off the record. When he scanned a defense, he looked more like he was staring at a chalkboard, woefully attempting to grasp the secret of the combustion engine. When he threw the football, dog owners rejoiced: He looked just like them tossing a Frisbee on the beach. But like Tebow, Young won. He made the Pro Bowl twice and guided his team to the playoffs in his second year. Thing was, while Young was terrific in the short term when he was surprising defenses, it was not sustainable. As a starter, he's thrown 42 touchdowns and 42 interceptions. He's now serving as Vick's sub in Philadelphia.

A similar fate awaits Tebow. There's a chance that at some point -- after playoff victories and regularly engineering more than one TD drive a game -- we'll look back and see that his humble beginnings actually marked the start of a remarkable career. But today, the furor around him sounds and feels like noise. Little of it has to do with Tebow himself and more with what his hungry public needs him to be -- a public that ignores that his coaches are protecting him better than they did Kyle Orton (who was allowed to throw an average of 31 passes per game to Tebow's 23), as the terrific Broncos' running game and defense emerge.

But the public won't be able to ignore Tebow's failings forever. Wait until the NFL has a season's worth of game film on him. My suspicion is that merit will return Tebow to the bench, where his season started. In the meantime, I am far more willing to believe in the legend of Von Miller.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7303988/ncf-tim-tebow-hype-drowns-buzz-more-talented-rookies

Kaylore
12-02-2011, 01:02 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a bitch to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

bronco militia
12-02-2011, 01:04 PM
put in one of your kids pop warner football home movies...there's not much to this offense

jhns
12-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Yay for another, he can't pass as we ignore the run, article!

This guy is a moron. They are protecting Tebow more than Orton by running and playing defense... Or Tebow opens up the run and doesn't continually put the defense in bad position, like Orton. He also doesn't kill momentum like Orton. He also excells when we need him to score gor the win, unlike Orton...

Haters gonna hate.

TonyR
12-02-2011, 01:07 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument...

The guy makes some good points here and there but his overall argument has some major holes. There's no "merit" in going 5-1?

Steve Prefontaine
12-02-2011, 01:07 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

Oh yeah. Well just wait until they have 10 years worth of tape! Then defenses are really gonna lock that mother****er down!!!!

alkjsdfbriangrieseaifdpkyleortonzafjdajlakjfd;lajk fdfdl;lennywallsjlkjajd;fljakaf!!!!!

You're right. The arguments keep adjusting about why Tebow will fail.

RunSilentRunDeep
12-02-2011, 01:07 PM
Not really. Stupid writer fails to acknowledge TT is playing at a much higher level than VY at the same point. Stupid writer also fails to realize VY could have been very successful if he had stayed out of the clubs, committed to improving and didn't suffer from depression.

crowebomber
12-02-2011, 01:07 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

And if he makes the playoffs, they'll say he has to win a championship. It's crazy how the people who hate him really, really hate him.

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 01:08 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

Not really.. it just requires players to commit and stick with their coverage.. that's about it. Once teams start doing that, this offense won't be all that difficult to stop. If the option was all that, all teams would be doing it. They aren't for a reason.

Blart
12-02-2011, 01:10 PM
I just read this in ESPN the magazine, it was the first article.

All the comparisons to the wildcat, Flutie, and calls of "gimmick" remind me that people love to criticize those who try something different.


You're right. The arguments keep adjusting about why Tebow will fail.

This article is predicting playoff victories before failure. They're definitely moving the goalposts.

jhns
12-02-2011, 01:11 PM
Not really.. it just requires players to commit and stick with their coverage.. that's about it. Once teams start doing that, this offense won't be all that difficult to stop. If the option was all that, all teams would be doing it. They aren't for a reason.

Unless our guys are able to beat the one defender that is open. If you have the players, the option is almost impossible to stop.

No, they wouldn't. Not even Young or Vick can run like Tebow and withstand the punishment. Tebow has a rare combination of size and athletisism. If every team could find the players, they would absolutely run the option. Just look at the wildcat phenomenon. That is a much more simplistic option that used two RBs. Tons of offenses used it and you can't do even close to as much with it.

Gort
12-02-2011, 01:11 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

i'd like to go on record as the first on the OM to state:

"sure, you can win ONE superbowl with Tebow, but you'll never repeat with Tebow as your QB!"

:)

OBF1
12-02-2011, 01:12 PM
F U C K all the haters, This is getting more annoying than Lindsay Lohan coverage on tv and internet.

Kaylore
12-02-2011, 01:15 PM
Not really.. it just requires players to commit and stick with their coverage.. that's about it. Once teams start doing that, this offense won't be all that difficult to stop. If the option was all that, all teams would be doing it. They aren't for a reason.

Yeah I've heard this argument. 1. NFL Defense's are too fast. 2. It's antiquated.

Let me refute both.

1. The option is predicated on putting a lot of pressure on the QB to make snap-second decisions based on what he reads. This in turn forces the defenders to be incredibly disciplined - ALL GAME EVERY DOWN. That's hard. Asking any defender in the pro's how they like defending the option. They'll tell you they hate it. The ends play contain, the linebackers have to spy and the corners have to tackle - these are all things pro defenders hate doing because they usually don't have to and it doesn't give them any sexy sacks. Additionally, it messes with their heads because on the occasions that they do actually throw, you can be caught peeking in the backfield. The offensive players executing the plays are faster in the pro's just like the defenders, so while a pure option offense might not be viable every game, option concepts absolutely can be as evidenced over the last six weeks.

2. College has basically shifted to the spread offense with most having some option plays thrown in over the last ten years. This means players coming out of college know how to play in it. It also means the most forward thinking programs are going to it. That is the opposite of "antiquated".

3. As WhoIsJohnGalt mentioned in another thread: "Passing is gay" - Vince Lombardi.

Bob's your Information Minister
12-02-2011, 01:17 PM
This is all you need to know about Tebow.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1q4byq.jpg

Slightly Soiled
12-02-2011, 01:18 PM
There's no "merit" in going 5-1?

Not to mention 2 nat'l championships and a Heisman.

Gort
12-02-2011, 01:19 PM
This is all you need to know about Tebow.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1q4byq.jpg

incomprehensible fictional stats?

= Bob Fail

:facepalm

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Yes.. and again.. this is all fine and good in theory, until Tebow takes a shot that puts him out of service for 8 games, or requires surgery. I don't care how "tough" he is. He has already taken some pretty wicked shots. He really -will- need heavenly intervention, to get through even a few years in the NFL without an injury, running it as much as he does.

Slightly Soiled
12-02-2011, 01:22 PM
How much tape is trere on A Rodgers????? The point being if you execute better than your opponent you generally win no matter how much TAPE they have.

jhns
12-02-2011, 01:22 PM
Yes.. and again.. this is all fine and good in theory, until Tebow takes a shot that puts him out of service for 8 games, or requires surgery. I don't care how "tough" he is. He has already taken some pretty wicked shots. He really -will- need heavenly intervention, to get through even a few years in the NFL without an injury, running it as much as he does.

There are many smaller RBs that take a ton more punishment than Tebow, and have lasted years. Good to know you are confident in him getting injuted though. That is a great last resort for haters.

Smiling Assassin27
12-02-2011, 01:22 PM
Seems to me that as he develops as a passer, he'll run less, not more. I know this is the NFL but how many games did he miss while running it at Florida?

SonOfLe-loLang
12-02-2011, 01:23 PM
Yeah I've heard this argument. 1. NFL Defense's are too fast. 2. It's antiquated.

Let me refute both.

1. The option is predicated on putting a lot of pressure on the QB to make snap-second decisions based on what he reads. This in turn forces the defenders to be incredibly disciplined - ALL GAME EVERY DOWN. That's hard. Asking any defender in the pro's how they like defending the option. They'll tell you they hate it. The ends play contain, the linebackers have to spy and the corners have to tackle - these are all things pro defenders hate doing because they usually don't have to and it doesn't give them any sexy sacks. Additionally, it messes with their heads because on the occasions that they do actually throw, you can be caught peeking in the backfield. The offensive players executing the plays are faster in the pro's just like the defenders, so while a pure option offense might not be viable every game, option concepts absolutely can be as evidenced over the last six weeks.

2. College has basically shifted to the spread offense with most having some option plays thrown in over the last ten years. This means players coming out of college know how to play in it. It also means the most forward thinking programs are going to it. That is the opposite of "antiquated".

3. As WhoIsJohnGalt mentioned in another thread: "Passing is gay" - Vince Lombardi.

Exactly...The read option in the NFL is an incredibly viable play. For one, the play side is a ZONE run...we've all watched this for years in Denver...its actually a nice evolution on the play because it contains a backside option that, technically, should hold two more defenders, creating a natural mismatch (7 on 6) on the playside. Should those two defenders commit to the run, then Tebow can take it (as he has many times for big gains already)

Also, as mentioned, it requires discipline EVERY DOWN, and since football is more muscle memory than cerebral, and because NFL teams never face it, good luck being disciplined on stopping it.

And one of the biggest reasons the read option isnt used in the pros is because no one wants to put their multi million dollar investment (QB) in constant harms way. In addition, the NFL has been sold as a passing league and coaches never like thinking outside the box.

As with ANY running play, you need to learn how to pass effectively to keep it fresh. Sure, you could shut down the zone read by blitzing the **** out of it, but it would leave you VERY vulnerable in the pass.

So as long as Tim continues to improve the passing, theres no reason to think the zone read will suddenly get "shut down"

ColoradoDarin
12-02-2011, 01:24 PM
Hmmm author mentions Young's equal amounts of TD's and Ints, but fails to say what Tebow's is? I wonder why?

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 01:26 PM
I'm just glad out QB isn't a pussy anymore

crowebomber
12-02-2011, 01:28 PM
This is all you need to know about Tebow.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1q4byq.jpg

Thanks for that clarification Bob. These random numbers with the heading "Ratings" really showed me how stupid I have been.

OrangeSe7en
12-02-2011, 01:28 PM
This figures to spark some memorable discussion...




http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7303988/ncf-tim-tebow-hype-drowns-buzz-more-talented-rookies

Better yet, let's discuss how you think every running play is the option.

BroncoBeavis
12-02-2011, 01:30 PM
Not really. Stupid writer fails to acknowledge TT is playing at a much higher level than VY at the same point. Stupid writer also fails to realize VY could have been very successful if he had stayed out of the clubs, committed to improving and didn't suffer from depression.

One thing that TT doesn't get enough credit for is his work ethic. I think one halfway common thread among the NFL's biggest QB busts over the last decade or so has been a sense of entitlement or lack of a strong work ethic. You get the feeling Tim is either going to make it as an NFL quarterback, or he's going to die trying.

Don't think you could've said that about Jamarcus, Vince, or someone like Leaf.

rugbythug
12-02-2011, 01:30 PM
You guys may not know this but tebow is to slow to run in the nfl. 4.7 speed. His elongated delivery is also going to cause him to be intercepted a lot. Just fyi from the tebow draft analysis.

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 01:31 PM
You guys may not know this but tebow is to slow to run in the nfl. 4.7 speed. His elongated delivery is also going to cause him to be intercepted a lot. Just fyi from the tebow draft analysis.

Cant take snaps from under center or make downfield passes either

extralife
12-02-2011, 01:32 PM
There are many smaller RBs that take a ton more punishment than Tebow, and have lasted years. Good to know you are confident in him getting injuted though. That is a great last resort for haters.

you realize that RBs are smaller than QBs for a reason, right?

you realize that the average career length of an RB is less than three years, right?

Gort
12-02-2011, 01:32 PM
You guys may not know this but tebow is to slow to run in the nfl. 4.7 speed. His elongated delivery is also going to cause him to be intercepted a lot. Just fyi from the tebow draft analysis.

don't forget...

he's so bad, even Adam Webber was outperforming him in practice. Tebow wasn't even the 3rd best QB on the roster to start the season.

jhns
12-02-2011, 01:33 PM
you realize that RBs are smaller than QBs for a reason, right?

you realize that the average career length of an RB is less than three years, right?

So that means smaller guys aren't taking more of a pounding?

You do realize that is about the average career length for all positions, right?

Popps
12-02-2011, 01:37 PM
http://oreowriter.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/ohnoes.jpg

bendog
12-02-2011, 01:37 PM
I'm just glad out QB isn't a p***Y anymore

not going there

BroncoBeavis
12-02-2011, 01:40 PM
Yes.. and again.. this is all fine and good in theory, until Tebow takes a shot that puts him out of service for 8 games, or requires surgery. I don't care how "tough" he is. He has already taken some pretty wicked shots. He really -will- need heavenly intervention, to get through even a few years in the NFL without an injury, running it as much as he does.

Look at what happened to the Colts without Manning. Using your rationale, the Colts should've never built around Peyton because look at what happens when he gets hurt!

Over the long term though, if the system works, and we're the only ones still daring to use it in the Pros... we'll have a pretty good selection of successful option QB's out of college who won't have many other places to go.

mkporter
12-02-2011, 01:45 PM
But the public won't be able to ignore Tebow's failings forever.

My favorite part of the article. I agree, I haven't heard anyone focus on Tebow's shortcomings. Have you guys?

Rigs11
12-02-2011, 01:45 PM
And if he makes the playoffs, they'll say he has to win a championship. It's crazy how the people who hate him really, really hate him.

they say this about all qbs. Don't flatter yourself and think that only poor Timmy gets this kind of treatment.This is the NFL you are expected to make the playoffs.

DrFate
12-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Apparently 'winning' has no merit.

Interesting...

rbackfactory80
12-02-2011, 01:53 PM
Tony R Hodge

barryr
12-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Tebow is as big as Elway, if not bigger, and hard to find someone who took more hits than Elway. How long did Elway last again?

Bottom line is Tebow is different and that makes some people uncomfortable. He has the possibility of changing the QB position and what all can be done with it, but the intellectually lazy would rather see a QB stand in the pocket or make simple handoffs since that is easier to follow.

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Look at what happened to the Colts without Manning. Using your rationale, the Colts should've never built around Peyton because look at what happens when he gets hurt!

Over the long term though, if the system works, and we're the only ones still daring to use it in the Pros... we'll have a pretty good selection of successful option QB's out of college who won't have many other places to go.

Um.. what? Manning is a pocket QB. He rarely rushes the ball. He is by and large, protected. He is smart enough to throw the ball away, and slide. He has had many productive and unhurt years in the NFL due to his style of play. However, go look at the injury reports for running style QBs. I think you'll find their injuries a lot more frequent.

Still, I have to laugh a little, that people think the Broncos have 'discovered' a new style offense that will revolutionize the way the game is played. There are other QBs doing fine, throwing 4 or 5 touchdowns a game, averaging 35 or more points. That seems to work pretty darn good, too.

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:04 PM
Um.. what? Manning is a pocket QB. He rarely rushes the ball. He is by and large, protected. He is smart enough to throw the ball away, and slide. He has had many productive and unhurt years in the NFL due to his style of play. However, go look at the injury reports for running style QBs. I think you'll find their injuries a lot more frequent.

Still, I have to laugh a little, that people think the Broncos have 'discovered' a new style offense that will revolutionize the way the game is played. There are other QBs doing fine, throwing 4 or 5 touchdowns a game, averaging 35 or more points. That seems to work pretty darn good, too.

So now you think people are arguing that the passing game is going away?

I think I understand your problem now. You are too stupid to have a conversation with.

DrFate
12-02-2011, 02:08 PM
It's well known that QBs get hurt while in the pocket as well

Gort
12-02-2011, 02:10 PM
It's well known that QBs get hurt while in the pocket as well

it's not unheard of for QBs to get hurt tripping over their dogs either.

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 02:10 PM
So now you think people are arguing that the passing game is going away?

I think I understand your problem now. You are too stupid to have a conversation with.

Don't be such a douche. All are fans here, I think. Just because I don't want to snuggle up to Tebow doesn't mean I don't like him, or want the team to fail.

The people claiming that this was a new playstyle "revolution" (term used on the Fan this morning, by an ex-Bronco), make me laugh. Yea.. a system used in college by ALL players in the NFL is a great revolution. They never thought of doing that playstyle before! Rushing your QB 22 times a game like he is a fullback, that's frigging brilliant. :yayaya:

Eldorado
12-02-2011, 02:11 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

The jets stopped it just fine.

barryr
12-02-2011, 02:12 PM
The jets stopped it just fine.

Not well enough since they lost and that is the bottom line in pro sports.

bendog
12-02-2011, 02:12 PM
Tebow is as big as Elway, if not bigger, and hard to find someone who took more hits than Elway. How long did Elway last again?

Bottom line is Tebow is different and that makes some people uncomfortable. He has the possibility of changing the QB position and what all can be done with it, but the intellectually lazy would rather see a QB stand in the pocket or make simple handoffs since that is easier to follow.

He isn't gonna change jack ****e unless they start scoing tds. Not saying he won't, but you guys need to chill a bit. GB or Nola would light us up like the city and county building ... or like how manning used to light us up.

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Don't be such a douche. All are fans here, I think. Just because I don't want to snuggle up to Tebow doesn't mean I don't like him, or want the team to fail.

The people claiming that this was a new playstyle "revolution" (term used on the Fan this morning, by an ex-Bronco), make me laugh. Yea.. a system used in college by ALL players in the NFL is a great revolution. They never thought of doing that playstyle before! Rushing your QB 22 times a game like he is a fullback, that's frigging brilliant. :yayaya:

Tebow rushed 22 times once. You can stop worrying so much though. If he doesn't develop his passing, Elway isn't keeping him around very long. He has made that very clear.

Gort
12-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Don't be such a douche. All are fans here, I think. Just because I don't want to snuggle up to Tebow doesn't mean I don't like him, or want the team to fail.

The people claiming that this was a new playstyle "revolution" (term used on the Fan this morning, by an ex-Bronco), make me laugh. Yea.. a system used in college by ALL players in the NFL is a great revolution. They never thought of doing that playstyle before! Rushing your QB 22 times a game like he is a fullback, that's frigging brilliant. :yayaya:

it's not that we think we've invented something new with Tebow, it's that we don't want to be lectured by condescending know-it-alls on how it can't/won't succeed, whether it's on ESPN or NFL Network or here on the OM.

at least on a Broncos forum, i would expect not to have to deal with dillholes getting their jollies badmouthing the success of this team.

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:14 PM
He isn't gonna change jack ****e unless they start scoing tds. Not saying he won't, but you guys need to chill a bit. GB or Nola would light us up like the city and county building ... or like how manning used to light us up.

Haters gonna hate.

Eldorado
12-02-2011, 02:14 PM
Not well enough since they lost and that is the bottom line in pro sports.

The D won that game.

Gort
12-02-2011, 02:14 PM
He isn't gonna change jack ****e unless they start scoing tds. Not saying he won't, but you guys need to chill a bit. GB or Nola would light us up like the city and county building ... or like how manning used to light us up.

duh.

who thinks this team is ready to contend for a SB?

not many. maybe you can count them all on the fingers on one hand.

it's not a newsflash for you to warn us that we are not good enough to beat the elite NFL teams yet.

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:15 PM
The D won that game.

The O runs a defensive gameplan. If Orton were still starting, we would be lucky to have two wins right now...

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 02:15 PM
It's well known that QBs get hurt while in the pocket as well

Stop being ignorant on purpose:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/10/tebow-says-hes-not-worried-about-getting-hit-while-running/

Here you go.. an article that states the obvious. And it's true.. but for some reason, fans continue to say that the risk of injury is "no big deal." Whatever... it's all fun and games until someone puts Tebow's eye out.

Lest you forgot, Tebow has ALREADY been hurt. Hurt his ribs while running into the endzone.

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:17 PM
Stop being ignorant on purpose:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/10/tebow-says-hes-not-worried-about-getting-hit-while-running/

Here you go.. an article that states the obvious. And it's true.. but for some reason, fans continue to say that the risk of injury is "no big deal." Whatever... it's all fun and games until someone puts Tebow's eye out.

Why would you haters worry about it? Him getting injured will give you exactly what you want.

barryr
12-02-2011, 02:20 PM
He isn't gonna change jack ****e unless they start scoing tds. Not saying he won't, but you guys need to chill a bit. GB or Nola would light us up like the city and county building ... or like how manning used to light us up.

And chilling also includes those ready to limit what Tebow will be in the future before he's even had a full training camp as the starter yet. The Packers already lit up the Broncos when Orton was the QB and they do most teams, as do the Saints, so that is news? The Broncos went something like 4-21 right before Tebow took over as QB, which was hardly pointing to making the playoffs anytime soon. Now that the team is winning and at least in the playoff picture, people want to come up with they can't win a playoff game or win the Super Bowl or ever go anywhere when just a couple months ago, even doing as well as 8-8 seemed unrealistic.

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 02:20 PM
Why would you haters worry about it? Him getting injured will give you exactly what you want.

Still going to be a douche huh.

Well, I can't speak for other fans, but I already stated I wanted Tebow in. I like many things about him. I just want him to throw the ball more. We may get some losses because of it, but do it anyway. It's pretty simple. If it's true we'll never win a SB with this sort of offense (and I don't believe we can), there is no point in trying to continue "developing" it. There is no goal or reason to do so.

He finally had his first 50% completion rate last game. Throw more.. run less, simple as that.

Eldorado
12-02-2011, 02:22 PM
The O runs a defensive gameplan. If Orton were still starting, we would be lucky to have two wins right now...

Oh, I agree 100%. But, in that game we had a turnover (which resulted in 3 for the jets) and had 5, 3 and outs out of 6 drives in the second half before the final drive. The D won that game.

rugbythug
12-02-2011, 02:22 PM
Tebow sucks. But this option thing has promise.

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:25 PM
Still going to be a douche huh.

Well, I can't speak for other fans, but I already stated I wanted Tebow in. I like many things about him. I just want him to throw the ball more. We may get some losses because of it, but do it anyway. It's pretty simple. If it's true we'll never win a SB with this sort of offense (and I don't believe we can), there is no point in trying to continue "developing" it. There is no goal or reason to do so.

He finally had his first 50% completion rate last game. Throw more.. run less, simple as that.

Give him an offseason. You are way too impatient with a QB that is starting his first year without ever having an offseason as the starter. That means the offense has been getting created on the fly. That means he hasn't worked much with the first unit. We also have a very mediocre receiver set, that he hasn't had time to get on the same page with.

We don't run an option every play. The option isn't going away while Tebow is here though. It will continue to work as they have proven it works.

epicSocialism4tw
12-02-2011, 02:26 PM
Tony R Hodge

Hilarious!

epicSocialism4tw
12-02-2011, 02:27 PM
it's not that we think we've invented something new with Tebow, it's that we don't want to be lectured by condescending know-it-alls on how it can't/won't succeed, whether it's on ESPN or NFL Network or here on the OM.

at least on a Broncos forum, i would expect not to have to deal with dillholes getting their jollies badmouthing the success of this team.

^5

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Still going to be a douche huh.

Well, I can't speak for other fans, but I already stated I wanted Tebow in. I like many things about him. I just want him to throw the ball more. We may get some losses because of it, but do it anyway. It's pretty simple. If it's true we'll never win a SB with this sort of offense (and I don't believe we can), there is no point in trying to continue "developing" it. There is no goal or reason to do so.

He finally had his first 50% completion rate last game. Throw more.. run less, simple as that.

Can I buy some drugs from you?

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 02:30 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.


this.......... i mean its getting just flat stupid at this point.

enjolras
12-02-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't want to be Debbie Downer here.....

But hasn't this offense already been stopped? They're not exactly moving up and down the field at will. They haven't put up much in the way of points. The positives (field position, ball control, and everything else) are well known. I'm not sure you can bottle this offense up more than teams have the last two weeks. It's really been pretty ineffective.

My point: I don't think anyone can argue that the current offense isn't going to get it done, it's what a more wide-open version of this offense (something more like the spread-option in college) would look like that is intriguing. All of the arguing about what is happening today is silly, because it's not the end point.

DrFate
12-02-2011, 02:41 PM
it's not unheard of for QBs to get hurt tripping over their dogs either.

Or getting up off their couch at home

:D

cutthemdown
12-02-2011, 02:43 PM
I think Broncos may real in the Bengals. Let's see if they can beat Pitt, Ravens back half of the season. Any, i repeat any bkup that comes in on a 1-4 teams, wins a game with longest td run to win a game in nfl history, would be talked about plenty.

ColoradoDarin
12-02-2011, 02:43 PM
Still going to be a douche huh.

Well, I can't speak for other fans, but I already stated I wanted Tebow in. I like many things about him. I just want him to throw the ball more. We may get some losses because of it, but do it anyway. It's pretty simple. If it's true we'll never win a SB with this sort of offense (and I don't believe we can), there is no point in trying to continue "developing" it. There is no goal or reason to do so.

He finally had his first 50% completion rate last game. Throw more.. run less, simple as that.

I don't know about the whole, "I'd rather lose than win" argument going there, but at least your last line shows that Tebow is improving in passing...

cutthemdown
12-02-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't want to be Debbie Downer here.....

But hasn't this offense already been stopped? They're not exactly moving up and down the field at will. They haven't put up much in the way of points. The positives (field position, ball control, and everything else) are well known. I'm not sure you can bottle this offense up more than teams have the last two weeks. It's really been pretty ineffective.

My point: I don't think anyone can argue that the current offense isn't going to get it done, it's what a more wide-open version of this offense (something more like the spread-option in college) would look like that is intriguing. All of the arguing about what is happening today is silly, because it's not the end point.

Well when you play ball control, you cant drop 3rd down conversions. For sure though to beat the big boys Broncos are going to need some big plays from Tebow in the passing. The one on one matchups are there to be had, the chances are there, the receptions just not quite made with regularity yet. Tebow will learn to get ball out quicker, WR will learn to adjust to his lefty throws, and we will get better.

In the meantime when the 4th quarter comes and Tebow decides he has to move the ball we get it done. Only a matter of time before he gets a lead. It's going to happen.

NUB
12-02-2011, 02:45 PM
Stop being ignorant on purpose:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/10/tebow-says-hes-not-worried-about-getting-hit-while-running/

Here you go.. an article that states the obvious. And it's true.. but for some reason, fans continue to say that the risk of injury is "no big deal." Whatever... it's all fun and games until someone puts Tebow's eye out.

Lest you forgot, Tebow has ALREADY been hurt. Hurt his ribs while running into the endzone.

I'm gonna steal one of those comments and put it here:

"Tom Brady blew his knee out in the pocket. Peyton Mannings neck was ripped up, in the pocket. Tony Romo broke ribs and a collarbone from the pocket. Steve Youngs career ended in the pocket. Joe Theismanns snapped leg heard round the world was snapped in the pocket. Carson Palmers knee was blown out in the pocket. Kevin Kolbs toe and Sam Bradfords ankle were shredded in the pocket. Hell Drew Brees broke his arm in the pocket, in the pro bowl."

jhns
12-02-2011, 02:46 PM
I'm gonna steal one of those comments and put it here:

"Tom Brady blew his knee out in the pocket. Peyton Mannings neck was ripped up, in the pocket. Tony Romo broke ribs and a collarbone from the pocket. Steve Youngs career ended in the pocket. Joe Theismanns snapped leg heard round the world was snapped in the pocket. Carson Palmers knee was blown out in the pocket. Kevin Kolbs toe and Sam Bradfords ankle were shredded in the pocket. Hell Drew Brees broke his arm in the pocket, in the pro bowl."

Kyle Orton: injured every year in the pocket.

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 02:48 PM
I don't know about the whole, "I'd rather lose than win" argument going there, but at least your last line shows that Tebow is improving in passing...


Ya i see alot folks disagreeing with Broncos4tw takes but i dont see where he said this in your quote.

ColoradoDarin
12-02-2011, 02:55 PM
Ya i see alot folks disagreeing with Broncos4tw takes but i dont see where he said this in your quote.

"We may get some losses because of it, but do it anyway."

I don't see the need to rush Tebow's development when he hasn't gone through a real off season with coaching staff as the #1 QB.

Besides, B4tw even noted that Tebow's completion % has gone up, so maybe, just maybe they are bringing him along, just slower than some fans want.

Mile High Mojoe
12-02-2011, 02:58 PM
I don't get you TonyR, you've been one of the loudest voices on the OM about Tebow being the focus and you then post another thread related to him.

Hypocrite, this is nothing more than to attempt back up your argument that Tebow blows right? Bravo genius, new angle, good job.

Bob's your Information Minister
12-02-2011, 03:07 PM
Thanks for that clarification Bob. These random numbers with the heading "Ratings" really showed me how stupid I have been.

Do you even know how to read a chart?

Tebow is the 37th best passer in the NFL.

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 03:13 PM
Do you even know how to read a chart?

Tebow is the 37th best passer in the NFL.

His question is ( where do you get these numbers?) just because you posted them doesnt mean shyt.

Jay3
12-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Cam's running zone read option and I don't see all the "oh noes!" for Cam. In fact, he's getting raves. He's rushed it 86 times this year. More carries, but not at the same rate as Tebow, but Tebow is coming off a 22 carry game. The point is that both of them will finish high in rushing attempts and yardage by any historical standard.

And I don't think it can be explained away by saying "yeah but Cam is throwing it better." That's beside the point if the argument is "this is a college offense that the pros will figure out with tape, and stop, and by the way gets your quarterback hurt."

vonqkilla
12-02-2011, 03:15 PM
Ive destroyed this argument enough, same old bs.

Anyone that says it wont work, or it will get figured out, blaa blaa blaa.

Why does it work in college? Are def coordinators paid in the ncaa? Did Auburn beat Bama using the same playsvs Saban?

Just because its used in college, doesn't transform our players into college kids worried about finals. These are NFL players running an offense that mathematically gives the offense an advantage on running and passing plays. Thats why it has worked in the ncaa for years, again, years....

Progress is being made. Plays that fail will be tossed, and streamlining is taking place. Expect more Ws.

The DL are playing gap responsibility....

On passing plays

Huge reason our oline looks so good.

Also gives wrs time to uncover late. Why, because Teebs is such a threat.

When you turn the defense passive, huge advantage. Tebow under center, made SD much more aggressive, Mike blitzed no fear, nailed mcgahee for a loss.

Steve Prefontaine
12-02-2011, 03:16 PM
The D won that game.

Man, someone ****ed up. I just checked the standing. I see that Denver was credited with an entire team win in that game. Hope they don't catch on and take half or two thirds of that one away.

Rohirrim
12-02-2011, 03:21 PM
It's just speculation. He might be right. He might not be. Time will tell.

Jay3
12-02-2011, 03:25 PM
I don't understand why the "they will figure it out and stop it" argument isn't made against any effective running game. Just a regular, hand it off running game -- if it's working, that's a good thing. You don't sing a sad song because on some far off day a defense will watch tape and figure out how to tackle your runner. The idea is that the mere fact that they are having to watch tape and figure out a different way to stop your running game is opening up chunk yardage plays down the field.

TonyR
12-02-2011, 03:29 PM
I don't get you TonyR...

I'm not to be understood....

But seriously, while hyperventilating perhaps you missed this post?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3399468&postcount=5

Rohirrim
12-02-2011, 03:33 PM
I just hope the Broncos come out firing the ball down the field this Sunday and give Tebow the chance to answer this question. The Vikes are the 29th pass D in the league. Now is the time to do it.

Jay3
12-02-2011, 03:35 PM
I just hope the Broncos come out firing the ball down the field this Sunday and give Tebow the chance to answer this question. The Vikes are the 29th pass D in the league. Now is the time to do it.

I hope so, too, as a fan. But really, the Broncos don't need to be game-planning or play-calling to showcase or test Tebow. They need to get the win.

Rohirrim
12-02-2011, 03:38 PM
I hope so, too, as a fan. But really, the Broncos don't need to be game-planning or play-calling to showcase or test Tebow. They need to get the win.

Yeah, but the Vikes are going to be working against various option schemes all week. Coming out throwing the ball could really **** with their heads. Get a couple of quick scores and then go back to the standard gameplan. ;D

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 03:38 PM
I just hope the Broncos come out firing the ball down the field this Sunday and give Tebow the chance to answer this question. The Vikes are the 29th pass D in the league. Now is the time to do it.


This should tell us what fox and McCoy are thinking, throwing the ball on minn should happen but (will it?)

Bob's your Information Minister
12-02-2011, 03:39 PM
I just hope the Broncos come out firing the ball down the field this Sunday and give Tebow the chance to answer this question. The Vikes are the 29th pass D in the league. Now is the time to do it.

Hilarious!

Tebow will have less than 150 passing yards.

Bob's your Information Minister
12-02-2011, 03:40 PM
His question is ( where do you get these numbers?) just because you posted them doesnt mean shyt.

Pro Football Focus, only the best NFL rating site around.

KO5K
12-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Stop being ignorant on purpose:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/10/tebow-says-hes-not-worried-about-getting-hit-while-running/

Here you go.. an article that states the obvious. And it's true.. but for some reason, fans continue to say that the risk of injury is "no big deal." Whatever... it's all fun and games until someone puts Tebow's eye out.

That was a terrible article.

I could provide infinite more examples of players getting injured in the pocket than outside.

Seriously, what a useless piece.

swaiy
12-02-2011, 03:43 PM
Nothing will change if he passes it lol. It will yield the same reactions as last year. It will be chalked up to him playing against a weak passing defense (Texans last year).

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 03:44 PM
Pro Football Focus, only the best NFL rating site around.


Cool and now how do those numbers explain tebow and the wins? its been proven thousands of times that the numbers don't mean shyt and if anybody has proven that its been tebow.

So anything you and me say is pure speculation and PFF statistics don't mean shyt when we see the final score.

Bob's your Information Minister
12-02-2011, 03:55 PM
Cool and now how do those numbers explain tebow and the wins?

Defense.

cabronco
12-02-2011, 03:55 PM
It would be nice to see a slant route or two, or posts, or screens against the Vikings. Like to see TT get the ball out on time to recievers, and get Royal relevant in the pass game again. But if they stick to their norm and pound the ball, Im great with that too. Just keep the chains moving and score. The run game runs the clock , while opposing Offense get less opportunities. With this pass happy league we see with the colts/Manning, Brady/ Pats, Saints, etc. its kind of nice playing old fashion smash mouth football. Rewatching some of the charger game, the O-line was moving players 2 to 5 yards down the field like in unisom. You can tell they're loving it ! Heck if its not broke don't fix it.

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 03:56 PM
Defense.


You're not as dumb as you eat.

MacGruder
12-02-2011, 04:11 PM
I don't understand why the "they will figure it out and stop it" argument isn't made against any effective running game. Just a regular, hand it off running game -- if it's working, that's a good thing. You don't sing a sad song because on some far off day a defense will watch tape and figure out how to tackle your runner. The idea is that the mere fact that they are having to watch tape and figure out a different way to stop your running game is opening up chunk yardage plays down the field.

Exactly! It's like saying teams should give up the forward pass entirely because they had several bad seasons. It just gets back to the truly insane ultra conservatism in the NFL. If you do something different and don't win every game doing it it's stupid folly. So all teams run the same play passing and running the ball every down.

But also, it's because Tebow sucks didn't you hear? He doesn't run a 4.6 so he can't possibly be a better runner than other running QBs.. and he doesn't have a cannon for an arm like Cam or Cutler so he can't possibly be a smarter passer. All we really need to do is hold a combine every season to determine who the best Qbs are and therefore who should win the Super bowl that year. and Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, Trent Dilfer and Merril Hoge will judge it..

Garcia Bronco
12-02-2011, 04:15 PM
I'm so sick of the "wait until they get more film" argument. First it was "a few games." Now it's "a whole season."

The fact is nothing we're doing is mysterious. They know what we're doing and they still can't stop it. And it's not because "they haven't figured it out" but because with Tebow, the option is a b**** to prepare for and defend and teams face us maybe once and so they don't have the time to dedicate to defeating an option play. We're out-executing. Period.

This, this, this.

Gort
12-02-2011, 04:31 PM
...really good interview between Dave Logan and Tebow on KOA just now.

i can't see how anybody could root against Tebow after hearing that interview. you'd have to have an empty soul to root against this kid's success.

Jetmeck
12-02-2011, 05:14 PM
Seems to me that as he develops as a passer, he'll run less, not more. I know this is the NFL but how many games did he miss while running it at Florida?

Your one smart cookie.................exactly.

Jetmeck
12-02-2011, 05:21 PM
Hilarious!

Tebow will have less than 150 passing yards.


Scoreboard.............BIAATTCCHHH.

5-1 VERSUS your what is it 0-6 in the same period.

This is why I HATE FRICKIN CHIEF FANS. This clown

should just go away and eat some humble pie.

We are on the way UP and your on the way back down

to where you belong and the guy your baggin ON came into

your house and beat you with his legs and his arm.

STFU

MacGruder
12-02-2011, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27
Seems to me that as he develops as a passer, he'll run less, not more. I know this is the NFL but how many games did he miss while running it at Florida?

Also.. people say "he can't run as much in the NFL as he did in college"

But in reality he doesn't have to.. all he has to do is run more than the QB he faces in each game. And no other QB will be able to run as much as he will.

Tebow doesn't have to run as much as he did in college.. he just has to be the best running QB in the NFL like he was in college.. who knows if he can or can't? Only time will tell. Just because he doesn't have the fastest 40 doesn't mean he can't be the best running QB.

I also think he is one of the smartest passing running QBs ever too.. and clutch.. so what he can and can't do is not known because he is so unique.

Steve Sewell
12-02-2011, 06:29 PM
The D won that game.

How dare the defense win a football game for the Broncos? That never happened when Elway was QB or anything.

/rollseyes

Bronx33
12-02-2011, 06:37 PM
Defense.


Yes the defense scores TDs just not offensively.

Dedhed
12-02-2011, 07:54 PM
He isn't gonna change jack ****e unless they start scoing tds. Not saying he won't, but you guys need to chill a bit. GB or Nola would light us up like the city and county building ... or like how manning used to light us up.
I love your rationale. A QB starting his 10th game this weekend for a team that won 4 games last year can't yet beat the team that's won 17 games in a row.
Therefore he's assured of failure.

That's exactly like calling Manning a bum because he couldn't beat the '98 Broncos.

Day one stupid.

Dedhed
12-02-2011, 07:59 PM
Tebow is the 37th best passer in the NFL.
He's also the #1 rusher at QB and has the 2nd highest winning pct in the NFL.

In other words, I could not care less.

MacGruder
12-02-2011, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by bendog
He isn't gonna change jack ****e unless they start scoing tds. Not saying he won't, but you guys need to chill a bit. GB or Nola would light us up like the city and county building ... or like how manning used to light us up.

I have never understood this take because we have seen that when Tebow HAS to put up points he can do it at a high rate. People say his defense has allowed him to win games.. but his defense has played so well Tebow hasn't had to try to put up big numbers. So it is just a guess to assume Tebow can't score quickly. The lions game was a fluke because the offense was so limited at that time. We have seen experienced QBs have games just as bad this season not just Tebow.

Dedhed
12-02-2011, 08:50 PM
Here's all the retarded and outright falsehoods in this article.

Merit remains what it has always been: a myth. Merit ... has always affected the final score -- especially if you happen to monitor more than just points. Seriously? Is this guy for real?

So merit, according to the author, is a myth. That myth, however, has always affected the final score, but only if you don't place any merit on points. Really?

Yet the saga of the season revolves around Tim Tebow. Since winning Denver's starting job after Week 5 via fan coupJust a total lie. He won the starting job during week 5 when he vastly outperformed the brutally inept incumbent starter.

He isn't, however, a particularly good quarterback.If viewed within a very narrow definition that discounts things like leadership, playmaking ability, performance in clutch situations, the ability to make teammates better, ability to get the crowd involved, etc

Maybe it's the college success (to blame) for Tebow becoming a phenomenon, but it has little do with merit.Again; success, which is a myth, has nothing to do with merit. Hmmm...interesting.


His legend began to grow during a five-game midseason stretch that saw the surging Denver defense give up just 15.5 points per game in four wins.If you didn't pay attention to last season, college, or high school. But, of course, all that success has nothing to do with merit, which is a myth anyway.

To his minions, Tebow's leadership was responsible for rousing rookie linebacker Von Miller.Miller's been great all year.

For the most recent history lesson, enter Vince Young -- national college champion, electric runner and big athlete. In 2006, he took up under center for the Titans, and the needle screeched off the record.Young, who threw as many INTs on Thursday as Tebow has in his career, who is borderline psychotic, lazy, aloof, and stupid. Yeah, he's exactly like Tebow in all the ways that matter.

This is like calling Lindsay Lohan and Tom Hanks very similar because they're both actors. Tebow and Young both run, so they're the same. Great effort.


But like Tebow, Young won.And promptly thought all he then needed to do was go bang hoes. He didn't need to get any better, he'd made the Pro Bowl.

A similar fate awaits Tebow. I doubt Tebow will ever stop trying to get better.


But the public won't be able to ignore Tebow's failings forever. Wait until the NFL has a season's worth of game film on him.Yes, pay no attention to what is going on because that's not real. What's real is what the author suspects he'll fail eventually, so there's no merit in being 5-1 as a starter.

I mean for real? You can't make up this kind of idiocy.


My suspicion is that merit will return Tebow to the bench, where his season started.Wait, isn't merit a myth?

lolcopter
12-03-2011, 07:18 AM
...really good interview between Dave Logan and Tebow on KOA just now.

i can't see how anybody could root against Tebow after hearing that interview. you'd have to have an empty soul to root against this kid's success.

great interview, thanks for the heads up (http://www.broncosradionetwork.com/player/?station=KOA2-IP&program_name=podcast&program_id=tebow.xml&mid=21635802)

TheReverend
12-03-2011, 07:39 AM
great interview, thanks for the heads up (http://www.broncosradionetwork.com/player/?station=KOA2-IP&program_name=podcast&program_id=tebow.xml&mid=21635802)

This kid NEVER ceases to amaze me.

Dedhed
12-03-2011, 10:15 AM
This kid NEVER ceases to amaze me.

It is amazing to listen to him.

DenverBrit
12-03-2011, 12:08 PM
This is all you need to know about me.

http://www.hellawella.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Eats_Obesity_ObeseManEatingFriedChicken.jpg

That buffet left the station long ago.

Cito Pelon
12-03-2011, 12:30 PM
I don't want to be Debbie Downer here.....

But hasn't this offense already been stopped? They're not exactly moving up and down the field at will. They haven't put up much in the way of points. The positives (field position, ball control, and everything else) are well known. I'm not sure you can bottle this offense up more than teams have the last two weeks. It's really been pretty ineffective.

My point: I don't think anyone can argue that the current offense isn't going to get it done, it's what a more wide-open version of this offense (something more like the spread-option in college) would look like that is intriguing. All of the arguing about what is happening today is silly, because it's not the end point.

True. I think they love the possibilities with Tebow at QB.

Cito Pelon
12-03-2011, 12:39 PM
"We may get some losses because of it, but do it anyway."

I don't see the need to rush Tebow's development when he hasn't gone through a real off season with coaching staff as the #1 QB.

Besides, B4tw even noted that Tebow's completion % has gone up, so maybe, just maybe they are bringing him along, just slower than some fans want.

Yah, they're coaching him smart. And still winning games. Of course they have the luxury that he's not a prima donna.

epicSocialism4tw
12-03-2011, 12:49 PM
It is amazing to listen to him.

He doesn't just say the good PR line, he sets a new standard for other players.

Dude has been blessed with a great sense of leadership. He obviously has great parents.

Rohirrim
12-03-2011, 02:10 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ByOcs381jpw/TOWTsV0wglI/AAAAAAAADfY/QVURwbH_HSY/s320/IMG_3178.JPG

errand
12-03-2011, 02:29 PM
duh.

who thinks this team is ready to contend for a SB?

not many. maybe you can count them all on the fingers on one hand.

it's not a newsflash for you to warn us that we are not good enough to beat the elite NFL teams yet.

I guess I'm the exception...i think the Broncos can win it every year....I've only been right twice, but came close 4 other times.

errand
12-03-2011, 02:55 PM
Tebow is bigger and stronger than alot of guys trying to tackle him...plus he's the one dishing out most of the hits. I'm not so much concerned with him getting hurt as I am his growth being stunted.

He hit on half his passes this past week...and Decker said that Tim has been throwing the ball before during and after practice, so his work ethic is exceptional, and like someone said, he'll die trying to become what we all hope he can become.

Tebow the person is awesome...he's evidently been raised right, and has learned to not bite the hands that feed him, help him achieve his success, or protect his blindside. He's the epitome of a team leader....reminds me of Kurt Warner who always remained a positive presence on the team regardless of how the fans or team treated him...in short...a professional

again, I'm not sold 100% on the kid yet...i've said numerous times, give him the rest of the season and let's re-evaluate what we got and what he's accomplished. If he shows marked improvement in his problem areas, I'd be OK if we don't win anymore games this season....but I find it hard to believe if he improves as we hope that he would lose games.

Cito Pelon
12-03-2011, 03:16 PM
Tebow is bigger and stronger than alot of guys trying to tackle him...plus he's the one dishing out most of the hits. I'm not so much concerned with him getting hurt as I am his growth being stunted.

He hit on half his passes this past week...and Decker said that Tim has been throwing the ball before during and after practice, so his work ethic is exceptional, and like someone said, he'll die trying to become what we all hope he can become.

Tebow the person is awesome...he's evidently been raised right, and has learned to not bite the hands that feed him, help him achieve his success, or protect his blindside. He's the epitome of a team leader....reminds me of Kurt Warner who always remained a positive presence on the team regardless of how the fans or team treated him...in short...a professional

again, I'm not sold 100% on the kid yet...i've said numerous times, give him the rest of the season and let's re-evaluate what we got and what he's accomplished. If he shows marked improvement in his problem areas, I'd be OK if we don't win anymore games this season....but I find it hard to believe if he improves as we hope that he would lose games.

It's fine with me if you're cautious about Tebow. I think he'll improve his passing stats as he gets more seasoning, that's kind of a 'duh' thing IMO. Dude is on OJT right now, and it's hard to refine things when the object is to simply win games.

DivineLegion
12-03-2011, 03:23 PM
"THE DREAM OF AMERICA -- a meritocracy -- is the basic draw of sports: your best against mine, the scoreboard oblivious to pedigree, race, class or gender. The promise of pure competition is perhaps the biggest reason we watch.

Except that it's a lie."


Anyone else notice the blatent contradiction this presents as you read through the artical?

epicSocialism4tw
12-03-2011, 03:26 PM
"THE DREAM OF AMERICA -- a meritocracy -- is the basic draw of sports: your best against mine, the scoreboard oblivious to pedigree, race, class or gender. The promise of pure competition is perhaps the biggest reason we watch.

Except that it's a lie."


Anyone else notice the blatent contradiction this presents as you read through the artical?

Absolutely.

Thats what happens when a half-wit waxes poetic.

Hamrob
12-03-2011, 06:20 PM
Not really.. it just requires players to commit and stick with their coverage.. that's about it. Once teams start doing that, this offense won't be all that difficult to stop. If the option was all that, all teams would be doing it. They aren't for a reason.Man, there are some stupid people around here. The reason other teams don't run it...is because nobody has a QB who can run it like Tebow...and oh, by the way...can take the punishment like Tebow.

What's amazing to me...is that Tebow has thrown 8 TD's against 1 int. Yes, he's only thrown for 900yds and 45% completion. But, who woudn't take an 8-1 ratio. If he was as bad as everyone is making him out to be. What's the explanation for the 8 TD throws which have all been pretty damn nice???

The TD to Decker last week was a good example. Brian Billeck had to explain it the other day...and he says, this is one of the few passes that Tebow has thrown very well". Please Brian...wake TFU.

On that play, Tebow started with the read option with trips left. Royal hung back and Thomas ran a fly to the outside. At the sametim, Decker ran a skinny post. Tebow faked the handoff, dropped back, pump faked outide to Royal. This brought the safeties up in a hurry...only for Tebow to setup and fire a strike to Decker for a TD between the CB and FS. The SS was spinting up to Royal and Tebow hosed him.

To me, it's plays like those...that tell me...give Tebow some time. He will become a damn good passer.

It's funny, everyone bashes on his throwing ability. But, the kid has an arm...he can chuck the rock and he can also put the ball into tight places. He just needs to know when its time to take more chances.

Jay3
12-03-2011, 06:47 PM
Not really.. it just requires players to commit and stick with their coverage.. that's about it. Once teams start doing that, this offense won't be all that difficult to stop. If the option was all that, all teams would be doing it. They aren't for a reason.

And how would you apply this same logic to just running the ball? Orton handing off to McGahee -- isn't it the case that every play you run can be dismissed with "it just requires players to commit and stick with their coverage.. that's about it."

Why do you even watch football if you think it's that simple?

errand
12-03-2011, 07:15 PM
And if he makes the playoffs, they'll say he has to win a championship. It's crazy how the people who hate him really, really hate him.

Wasn't that the same argument used against jake plummer?

jake led us to the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons.... but according alot of clowns on here, we had to get rid of him because he was never gonna win us the superbowl.

oh the irony though.... the broncos have not been to the playoffs since we got rid of jake plummer

OrangeSe7en
12-03-2011, 07:30 PM
Wasn't that the same argument used against jake plummer?

jake led us to the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons.... but according alot of clowns on here, we had to get rid of him because he was never gonna win us the superbowl.

oh the irony though.... the broncos have not been to the playoffs since we got rid of jake plummer

Plummer made people nervous because he had poor judgment (among other reasons).

Plummer and Tebow aren't even close to being the same guy. Sorry but this comparison is a big failure.

Dedhed
12-03-2011, 08:37 PM
He doesn't just say the good PR line, he sets a new standard for other players.

I think the difference is that he's genuine about what he says. When Desean Jackson talks about "team" he's just delivering a PR line that's been burned into his brain, but in reality, he's still really only concerned with himself.

When Tebow talks about "team" there is conviction. He knows that he can't do it without the help of everyone. It's amazingly unique in the realm of today's sports.

I thought his answer to the media question was amazingly impressive. He loves the media attention for what it can help him accomplish outside of sports, but he hates that the media doesn't give the credit the people who "do the work" within the sports realm to help him succeed. Such a good response. Nothing fluff about it.

errand
12-03-2011, 08:45 PM
Plummer made people nervous because he had poor judgment (among other reasons).

Plummer and Tebow aren't even close to being the same guy. Sorry but this comparison is a big failure.

Nobody said they were the same guy there, moron....I was just pointing out that raising the bar is gonna happen no matter who our QB is.

Jake was constantly being ripped on here as being a roadblock to the Broncos success, and called a mistake of colossal proportions because we didn't go to SB. Every year the bar was raised on him...make the playoffs first, then he had to at least win a playoff game, then he had to win a conference title...same will be expected of every QB.

But you're crazy if you think people aren't a little nervous when Tebow drops back to pass...he more than likely isn't gonna throw a pick...but he more than likely won't complete the pass either...right now it's a 50-50 proposition. Not hating...that's his completion pct.

Jake made plays...and won games too. Broncos went 10-7, 10-7, 13-5, and 7-4 (overall 40-23) including playoffs with him as our starting QB. Broncos haven't even sniffed playoffs since....He tied franchise record for most TD passes in season with 27..He once threw over 200 passes without an INT...and he is one of only 3 QB's (Morton and Elway) that has QB'd the Broncos to not only 3 playoff appearances but in consecutive seasons.

But riddle me this Batclown...why is winning games so fashionable now despite bad passing numbers and all when the QB is Tebow, but Jake making people nervous wasn't worth it all as the Broncos went to the playoffs year after year? I thought winning was everything, right?

Going to playoffs 3 consecutive seasons while making people nervous isn't good and warrants being replaced/benched and eventually traded?

Going 5-1 while not being able to complete half your passes equals greatness?

Once again you give my argument for liking Tebow but hating his nuthugging fans even more credibility