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rugbythug
12-01-2011, 07:46 PM
The Point of Offense

Yeah for first Post of score touchdowns!

But really we are not a team that is built to out score you. No we are a team built to out grind you. When you run the ball 55 times its because you can. Because the other team has not stopped you from doing so. Our team is dedicated to doing only a few things and doing them well.

1. Hold the ball
2. Take our time.
3. Create Long Fields

Every possession that we do these few tasks we have had a successful drive.

Our offense is inherently not going to score as many points as a Passing style. Passing is by far the fastest way to move the football, with this speed also comes a higher degree of danger. We are avoiding this danger by throwing the ball as little as possible. We can only do this because our run offense is very efficient, we have few very long runs but also few negative and 0 yard gains as well. Statistically our offense is always going to look like Garbage- we are designing it to do things that nobody cares about. However if at the end of the day we can squeeze a win out of a juice less football well good for us.

cutthemdown
12-01-2011, 07:50 PM
Right now Broncos showing how about half the points other teams score are from mistakes and turnovers by the other team. Broncos aren't giving points away and teams are finding that tough to score a lot of points on.

This pass happy league got to the point and int a game is fine as long as 2 td passes went along with it. Turns out though that always might not be the case. The int can be like 2 scores, the one you didn't get, and they one you give away.

SureShot
12-01-2011, 07:52 PM
That's becauses ints are worth 15 points

Rohirrim
12-01-2011, 08:39 PM
Right now, the key to this offense is a QB who does not turn it over. Period.

sgbfan
12-01-2011, 09:22 PM
Defense not getting tired is going a long way imo. If they only have to play 70-80% as many plays as previously, thats a very good thing.

cutthemdown
12-02-2011, 01:31 AM
That's becauses ints are worth 15 points

It's almost like the rest of the NFL pissed we are playing small ball. They are like well yeah, you can win a bunch of games like that but will lose eventually. LOL. They are mad because Broncos not playing the throw the ball all day game, make the games last well over 3 hours, and get plenty of commercials in.

Broncos bad for TV in the eyes of the NFL elite.

cutthemdown
12-02-2011, 01:32 AM
Defense not getting tired is going a long way imo. If they only have to play 70-80% as many plays as previously, thats a very good thing.

I think it's also the other teams defense just getting flat worn out from all the running plays. They get tired, then make mistakes in the 4th quarter.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
12-02-2011, 01:47 AM
new NFL rule you must pass the ball at least 30 times a quarter and it must be to receivers who are covered aka the bronco rule .
so says the NFL comish lord of football

cutthemdown
12-02-2011, 04:15 AM
It would be nice to see Tebow have a big passing day, but really winning all that matters. It would be fun to watch them make excuses for that also though.

jsco70
12-02-2011, 05:42 AM
It would be nice to see Tebow have a big passing day, but really winning all that matters. It would be fun to watch them make excuses for that also though.

I predict a big passing day for Tebow against the Vikings. The factors for this are playing in a dome, a lot of injuries in the vikes secondary, and that Tebow looked much more comfortable last week in the pocket. I think they let him open it up and see how much he has improved.

ColoradoDarin
12-02-2011, 06:00 AM
It would be nice to see Tebow have a big passing day, but really winning all that matters. It would be fun to watch them make excuses for that also though.

We saw it last year against the Texans, I don't need to see it again for another year or so.

Vegas_Bronco
12-02-2011, 06:42 AM
Everyone wants tebow to have a sexy win...TS! Steelers win ugly as do the Ravens constantly...this is the new orange and the nfl press just can't get it.

Old Dude
12-02-2011, 06:49 AM
Get ready for more Fox-ball. Run, run, run and run it some more. Protect the ball. Play for field position and let the defense do the heavy lifting. If it works, don't try to fix it.

jhns
12-02-2011, 06:55 AM
Get ready for more Fox-ball. Run, run, run and run it some more. Protect the ball. Play for field position and let the defense do the heavy lifting. If it works, don't try to fix it.

Yup. I'm not sure this will change even if we somehow got Luck(other than the option going away). Fox loves to run the ball.

Shotgun Willie
12-02-2011, 07:53 AM
rugby, this offense is frightening. Like, Ghostbusters frightening.

I can't even let my kids watch it.

BroncoInferno
12-02-2011, 08:25 AM
To me, the Vikings game is the perfect opportunity to open up the passing game a little bit. The Vikings defense is not good, allowing 26.8 points per game (ranked 30th overall), but their run defense (99.6 yards per game, 9th in the league) is much better than their pass D (258.2, 29th in the league). I'm not saying I expect us to throw it 40 times, especially on the road, but 25-30 times would be a good number. Especially early in the game so we can (hopefully) build a lead to sit on in the second half.

ScottXray
12-02-2011, 09:40 AM
To me, the Vikings game is the perfect opportunity to open up the passing game a little bit. The Vikings defense is not good, allowing 26.8 points per game (ranked 30th overall), but their run defense (99.6 yards per game, 9th in the league) is much better than their pass D (258.2, 29th in the league). I'm not saying I expect us to throw it 40 times, especially on the road, but 25-30 times would be a good number. Especially early in the game so we can (hopefully) build a lead to sit on in the second half.

Not just this game, but the next 3 games. Minn, Chicago and NE are all top 10 rush defenses, but the 30th, 29th and 32nd ranked pass defenses.

Denver has to throw the ball better the next 3 games, and Minny ( dome game) is the opportunity to work out a few kinks before we have two weather possible December games. About 25-30 passes is right but they have to also keep the run in the mix and stay out of 3rd and long too much.
1st down plays are going to be critical, so McCoy had better do more than run, run , whatever, all the time. He has to get more production early .

I doubt that these three teams will use the SD plan of not rushing , but just keeping contain on Tebow, since that worked so well. His ability to spot the blitzes and make presnap reads will be critical so we are about to find out if he has progressed in that aspect.

Our receivers have to step up big to get open and good separation faster.

MplsBronco
12-02-2011, 09:44 AM
Right now, the key to this offense is a QB who does not turn it over. Period.

I heard Tebow say this week that the goal of every drive is to end it with a kick, whether that be an extra point, FG or punt.

Gort
12-02-2011, 09:50 AM
i would smile for a whole week if Tebow comes out against the Vikings, throws for 400+ yards and 3+ TDs. what would the professional Tebow doubters on ESPN and in the rest of the media say then? Marshall Faulk might explode if he had to talk about Tebow throwing for 400+ yards. i would smile for a whole week.

rugbythug
12-02-2011, 09:58 AM
rugby, this offense is frightening. Like, Ghostbusters frightening.

I can't even let my kids watch it.

What's your real handle?

Shotgun Willie
12-02-2011, 10:14 AM
What's your real handle?

I was pm'd the link to your thread after asking what all the Ghostbusters references were about in this thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101247

I'm sooooooo glad I asked. Classic stuff there.

TonyR
12-02-2011, 10:28 AM
Everyone wants tebow to have a sexy win...TS! Steelers win ugly as do the Ravens constantly...this is the new orange and the nfl press just can't get it.

You have somewhat of a case with Pittsburgh (19th) but the Ravens are 7th in the league in scoring.

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 10:31 AM
Right now, the key to this offense is a QB who does not turn it over. Period.

Nearly 500 rush yards from the QB position helps

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 10:50 AM
Our offense is gimmicky. This won't last. It can't last. Tebow is not going to be able to rush for 1200 yards a year, AND be our QB. And defenses are going to figure out this offense, and then it's lights out. We need to pass more, end of story.

Seen much of the wildcat offense lately? Nope. Gimmick - worked for awhile.. figured it out.. shut it down completely.. no longer used. If these style offenses were effective all the time, teams would still be using them.

Once they do shut it down, we have to be able to throw the ball more. I have some confidence we'll see it happen, but I'm still in wait and see mode. I do NOT think this is the sort of offense (averaging less than 19 points a game) will win a championship. So before we completely retool the team around this offense that ultimately won't be effective to win championships.. LET Tebow air it out more. Suffer through the growing pains. It's the only way we'll get better.

Powderaddict
12-02-2011, 10:51 AM
Honestly, I love a physical, dominating run game. I love a physical, tough, bullying defense.

I don't find a high flying passing attack any more exciting. Maybe I'm the only one. I loved watching TD march down the field drive after drive, the defenses know it's coming, and unable to do a singal thing about it.

Powderaddict
12-02-2011, 10:54 AM
Our offense is gimmicky. This won't last. It can't last. Tebow is not going to be able to rush for 1200 yards a year, AND be our QB. And defenses are going to figure out this offense, and then it's lights out. We need to pass more, end of story.

Seen much of the wildcat offense lately? Nope. Gimmick - worked for awhile.. figured it out.. shut it down completely.. no longer used. If these style offenses were effective all the time, teams would still be using them.

Once they do shut it down, we have to be able to throw the ball more. I have some confidence we'll see it happen, but I'm still in wait and see mode. I do NOT think this is the sort of offense (averaging less than 19 points a game) will win a championship. So before we completely retool the team around this offense that ultimately won't be effective to win championships.. LET Tebow air it out more. Suffer through the growing pains. It's the only way we'll get better.

This offense is nothing like the Wildcat. Tebow is also a very young QB that has upside.

It may not be a long term solution, but it's not gimmicky football. It provides extra blockers for the run game when the QB can run, by forcing the opposind defenses to account for him. It forces the defense to be very disciplined. It's a viable offense. If Tebow can become a bit more accurate, and quick with his decisions (it is a big if and I believe his success and the success of this offense hinges on it), it could be deadly.

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 10:54 AM
Wildcat rebuttal is retarded if only for the fact that was a single formation... What we're doing is an entire offensive philosophy

Oh, and wildcat RB doesn't throw the ball

Shotgun Willie
12-02-2011, 10:55 AM
Honestly, I love a physical, dominating run game. I love a physical, tough, bullying defense.

I don't find a high flying passing attack any more exciting. Maybe I'm the only one. I loved watching TD march down the field drive after drive, the defenses know it's coming, and unable to do a singal thing about it.

Well, to be fair that "TD offense" was averaging over 30 pts per game in its heyday. Of course it was exciting. Our's is averaging somewhere in the mid teens. It is anything but "exciting" (up until the last 5 minutes usually).

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 11:02 AM
No.. the point was that the wildcat was a "new" scheme that was successful for a short period of time. Once teams figured out how to play it, they shut it down, and it stopped seeing use except rarely.

You are nuts if you think this isn't a gimmicky offense right now. Tebow running 22 rushes in a game is normal? No, it's not. He is on pace to rush for 1200 yards in his first year. That would be an NFL record. It's a gimmick until more teams pick it up, it continues to work, and becomes the new norm.

Gort
12-02-2011, 11:03 AM
Wildcat rebuttal is retarded if only for the fact that was a single formation... What we're doing is an entire offensive philosophy

Oh, and wildcat RB doesn't throw the ball

don't bother. you can't dissuade those who are already perched in their ivory towers. if the Broncos were running just a single offensive scheme, like the read option or spread option, then the talk of a gimmick may be valid. but this offense is running lots of different sets and formations and is trying to give the D a different look every play. with McGahee healthy, we have a solid 1-2 punch that teams simply cannot prepare for adequately in 1 week. you unleash McGahee with traditional power blocking or ZBS plays, or you give Tebow the option to carry the ball in the various option formations. the point is to give the D so much to prepare for that they cannot, and you mix up your formations to catch the D out of alignment. if this is the goal, and apparently Fox thinks it is, we're a better running team with Tebow than without.

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 11:06 AM
Ok, keep living in a fantasy world where Tebow is indestrucible, and won't pull his groin or his hammy. He is going to get hurt at this rate.

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 11:07 AM
Ok, keep living in a fantasy world where Tebow is indestrucible, and won't pull his groin or his hammy. He is going to get hurt at this rate.

Omg Schaub should stop being a pocket passer

**** happens

Gort
12-02-2011, 11:09 AM
Ok, keep living in a fantasy world where Tebow is indestrucible, and won't pull his groin or his hammy. He is going to get hurt at this rate.

Tom Brady never gets hurt
Peyton Manning never gets hurt
Jay Cutler never gets hurt
etc.
etc.
etc.

arguing against doing something because somebody might possibly get hurt is not an argument.

http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/64345.jpg

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 11:12 AM
Hey! Let's change the offense that has been winning games for us back to the traditional offense that has done SO MUCH for this franchise in the last decade

Herp derp

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 11:14 AM
Omg Schaub should stop being a pocket passer

**** happens

That's an irresponsible way to plan your game. **** happens... seriously? It happens a lot more if you are rushing a lot more. He is taking some hard shots. You are nuts if you think there isn't a much greater chance of an injury. Remember Vick's record rushing year.. I think 1049 yards. He was getting close to that and -bam-.. pulled his groin on a run. Slowed him up the rest of the year. No SB for that team, that year.

But really, again.. it comes down to how effective our offense is. It's NOT effective. We are averaging a sad amount of points against crappy teams. We are hardly doing a ball control offense, as some think. 3 and out.. 5 and out.. run run run.. punt. Run run.. bad pass.. punt. Run run run.. punt. This is not effective, exciting, or going to frighten playoff caliber teams.

Gort
12-02-2011, 11:20 AM
That's an irresponsible way to plan your game. **** happens... seriously? It happens a lot more if you are rushing a lot more. He is taking some hard shots. You are nuts if you think there isn't a much greater chance of an injury. Remember Vick's record rushing year.. I think 1049 yards. He was getting close to that and -bam-.. pulled his groin on a run. Slowed him up the rest of the year. No SB for that team, that year.

But really, again.. it comes down to how effective our offense is. It's NOT effective. We are averaging a sad amount of points against crappy teams. We are hardly doing a ball control offense, as some think. 3 and out.. 5 and out.. run run run.. punt. Run run.. bad pass.. punt. Run run run.. punt. This is not effective, exciting, or going to frighten playoff caliber teams.

this offense is doing what McCoy and Fox want it to do. not turn the ball over. play a game of field position. we're low scoring because we are ultraconservative with the playcalling.

injuries happen. Dumervil was lost all last season because of an injury on the first day of training camp. if you're going to obsess about Tebow getting injured, then why don't we just punt on 1st down? Tebow isn't worried about injuries. he's even said when asked directly that he's not getting hit as bad running the ball as when he stands in the pocket.

TonyR
12-02-2011, 11:24 AM
Well, to be fair that "TD offense" was averaging over 30 pts per game in its heyday. Of course it was exciting. Our's is averaging somewhere in the mid teens. It is anything but "exciting" (up until the last 5 minutes usually).

You beat me to it. Yes the old TD offense ran frequently and effectively, but more importantly it scored! That's the ultimate goal of an offense, after all. Scoring.

jhns
12-02-2011, 11:28 AM
You beat me to it. Yes the old TD offense ran frequently and effectively, but more importantly it scored! That's the ultimate goal of an offense, after all. Scoring.

It also was filled with veterans...

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 11:29 AM
You beat me to it. Yes the old TD offense ran frequently and effectively, but more importantly it scored! That's the ultimate goal of an offense, after all. Scoring.

Must have missed the article explaining how tebow has the highest TD per touch ratio

TonyR
12-02-2011, 11:29 AM
Tom Brady never gets hurt
Peyton Manning never gets hurt
Jay Cutler never gets hurt
etc.
etc.
etc.

arguing against doing something because somebody might possibly get hurt is not an argument.

I think you're oversimplifying a little. If a QB gets dinged up and has his running ability/mobility impacted he can still play because running isn't a crucial part of his game. If Tebow gets dinged up and his mobility is impacted it destroys our whole offense as currently constructed. I think Broncos4tw is making a point worth considering.

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 11:29 AM
It also was filled with future HOF veterans...

Fixed

TonyR
12-02-2011, 11:31 AM
Must have missed the article explaining how tebow has the highest TD per touch ratio

Less than 18 points a game.

TonyR
12-02-2011, 11:32 AM
It also was filled with veterans...

Sigh. I'm not saying our offense can't or won't get better. I'm only pointing out that it needs to. Why so sensitive to this fact? Just agree with it and move on with your miserable life.

jhns
12-02-2011, 11:33 AM
Less than 18 points a game.

Which is better than we saw from the passing offense. Just think about that for a second. The offense went to run first, gave away its top weapon, and still improved.

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 11:33 AM
Less than 18 points a game.

Work in progress

5-1

jhns
12-02-2011, 11:34 AM
Sigh. I'm not saying our offense can't or won't get better. I'm only pointing out that it needs to. Why so sensitive to this fact? Just agree with it and move on with your miserable life.

I pointed out a fact to go with your comparison. Why are you so sensitive?

TonyR
12-02-2011, 11:36 AM
Which is better than we saw from the passing offense. Just think about that for a second. The offense went to run first, gave away its top weapon, and still improved.

There you go using Kyle Orton as your measuring stick again...

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 11:38 AM
5-1.. against crappy teams. C'mon.. be honest. We scrapped by most of those games. Two in OT. They by and large all suck, except possibly the Faders. You think 19 points is gonna beat NE, or other teams that CAN score?

lolcopter
12-02-2011, 11:40 AM
5-1.. against crappy teams. C'mon.. be honest. We scrapped by most of those games. Two in OT. They by and large all suck, except possibly the Faders. You think 19 points is gonna beat NE, or other teams that CAN score?

Some people need to take a moment and be thankful that we're actually beating crappy teams for once, before they put us in a points race with the elite QBs/offenses in the league

Crybaby Cutler's offense was middle of the pack for scoring, and that's the closest thing we've had to an elite offense since '98! Yards aren't sexy... W's are

jhns
12-02-2011, 11:40 AM
There you go using Kyle Orton as your measuring stick again...

Right. Maybe I should just speculate what would happen if we had Brady!

What I find funny is that you defended Orton against all critisism. Now you do the opposite with the guy that turned this franchises season around. So you like this team losing? Great fan...

jhns
12-02-2011, 11:42 AM
5-1.. against crappy teams. C'mon.. be honest. We scrapped by most of those games. Two in OT. They by and large all suck, except possibly the Faders. You think 19 points is gonna beat NE, or other teams that CAN score?

This was the second worst team inthe league last season. Just think about that before posting this idiotic take again.

Broncos4tw
12-02-2011, 11:42 AM
Some people need to take a moment and be thankful that we're actually beating crappy teams for once before they put us in a points race with the elite QBs/offense in the league

Look.. I am thankful. I'm also enjoying it. I ALSO love to watch Tebow play. I do want the team to succeed, you know.

I'm just saying I think we are playing a gimmicky offense, who runs our QB far too much, which probably will never win a championship, instead of developing Tim as a passer. He has shown he can pass - make him do it more.

This weekend would be a great chance to do it.. Vikings pass D sucks, bad.

BroncoBeavis
12-02-2011, 11:44 AM
You are nuts if you think this isn't a gimmicky offense right now. Tebow running 22 rushes in a game is normal? No, it's not. He is on pace to rush for 1200 yards in his first year. That would be an NFL record. It's a gimmick until more teams pick it up, it continues to work, and becomes the new norm.

The west coast was a gimmick until it wasn't. What the Tebow project is doing will either fade and forever be considered a gimmick. Or it will revolutionize the game. A lot of fun to watch either way, when you think about it.

jhns
12-02-2011, 11:45 AM
The west coast was a gimmick until it wasn't. What the Tebow project is doing will either fade and forever be considered a gimmick. Or it will revolutionize the game. A lot of fun to watch either way, when you think about it.

Or Tebow will continue to develop as a passer like every mobile QB that has had long term success.

BroncoBeavis
12-02-2011, 11:48 AM
Or Tebow will continue to develop as a passer like every mobile QB that has had long term success.

I don't think it's either/or. Tebow's development as a passer only makes this scheme better.

Paladin
12-02-2011, 11:59 AM
Our offense is gimmicky. This won't last. It can't last. Tebow is not going to be able to rush for 1200 yards a year, AND be our QB. And defenses are going to figure out this offense, and then it's lights out. We need to pass more, end of story.

Seen much of the wildcat offense lately? Nope. Gimmick - worked for awhile.. figured it out.. shut it down completely.. no longer used. If these style offenses were effective all the time, teams would still be using them.

Once they do shut it down, we have to be able to throw the ball more. I have some confidence we'll see it happen, but I'm still in wait and see mode. I do NOT think this is the sort of offense (averaging less than 19 points a game) will win a championship. So before we completely retool the team around this offense that ultimately won't be effective to win championships.. LET Tebow air it out more. Suffer through the growing pains. It's the only way we'll get better.


Perhaps you may be right. However, the wildcat used by other teams did not have the type of QB that TT is. The Single Wing, Wishbone, Broken Bone, Wing T and derivatives were successful in days past, and there is no reason to believe that the Read Option, which seems to be a derivative of all those older running Os, can't have a prominent place as an offensive scheme in the pros. The question is whether the QB can run it consistently without getting concussed. As I understand it, the "speed and smarts" of the LBs is suppossedly the reason the Read Option "won't work" in the pros. Well, the Broncos do not run it all the time. Further, they have introduced so many other "looks" and variations to date, with more to come, that it may have better legs than previously thought. What it does do, is it changes the Dline play as well as the LB play. Frankly, the point that other teams don't use it is the point of using it. Using the aggressiveness of teh D against them is the point of the O. SD did not attack, but wanted to contain, and that is where TT had all the time to wander around and wait for soemone to come open. It is a Chess match, not a straight power game. That equalizes the talent pool on the field.

What has really made the differnce for the Broncso this year has been the D as managed by Allen. He should be coach of the year, in my book.

Gort
12-02-2011, 12:03 PM
The west coast was a gimmick until it wasn't. What the Tebow project is doing will either fade and forever be considered a gimmick. Or it will revolutionize the game. A lot of fun to watch either way, when you think about it.

i was going to raise that point earlier as well. one reason the WCO was so successful for SF was that so few teams in the league played against it, that it really wasn't worth the time/effort to retool their rosters and schemes to defend against it (until they had to). back in the 80's, you had the Cowboys and Eagles and Giants and Bears and Vikings and Redskins and a few other successful teams worrying mostly about beating each other. then you had this west coast team that you rarely played during the season and wouldn't have to worry about until the postseason, that ran a WCO. what compelling reason did anyone other than NFC West teams have to worry about beating WCO teams, until it became much more popular in the league? honestly, this is another advantage to what we're doing. if the Broncos are the only team capable of running this offense, we really don't have to worry too much about opponents spending alot of time drafting players and installing schemes to defeat it. Sandy Eggo, KC, and Oakland will have to do something about it, but don't expect NE or Houston or Indy or NYJ or PIT or Baltimore or anyone else to worry very much about beating us with this unique scheme, when their more important opponents are in their own divisions. unless we see teams copy it around the league, there is an extra benefit to running a unique scheme.