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View Full Version : PFF: Von Miller, most dominant rookie since Randy Moss


Bronco Rob
12-01-2011, 08:20 AM
Stories of the Season: Miller Much More Than the ROY
www.profootballfocus.com


It’s time we forgot talk of best rookie and started to think in terms of Pro-Bowl, All-Pro, maybe even Defensive Player of the Year. It sounds crazy, but there may not be a better candidate than Miller right now…Focusing only on his play as a run defender and in coverage, he is still having an All-Pro caliber season…Miller is also the only linebacker in the league with more than 25 tackles that has yet to miss one…The scary part is that when most rookies are running into the metaphorical wall, Miller seems to be getting stronger. His past four games have been his strongest four, and at the moment he is proving to be an adversary that right tackles can’t contain…This might be the most dominant season from a rookie since Randy Moss defined the word ‘uncoverable’ in his first year with a chip on his shoulder in 1998.

Miller was just named the NFL's Defensive Rookie of the Month




http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/pff-von-miller-most-dominant-rookie-since-randy-moss

Smiling Assassin27
12-01-2011, 08:21 AM
Von's gonna club some baby seals this weekend.

peacepipe
12-01-2011, 08:28 AM
miller is a beast. It's amazing what he's accomplished this yr. The best part is as good as he is playing right now,he only get better.

LonghornBronco
12-01-2011, 08:45 AM
WoW!!!, just wow!

LonghornBronco
12-01-2011, 08:46 AM
Forget better, if he simply maintains what he is doing right now he'll be a legend by the time he's done.

HILife
12-01-2011, 08:53 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101723

Just saying.

Greatspirits
12-01-2011, 09:42 AM
WoW!!!, just wow!

Wow is right!! Oh you mean Von Miller! I was looking at your avatar:wiggle:

BroncoBen
12-01-2011, 09:52 AM
Stories of the Season: Miller Much More Than the ROY
www.profootballfocus.com


It’s time we forgot talk of best rookie and started to think in terms of Pro-Bowl, All-Pro, maybe even Defensive Player of the Year. It sounds crazy, but there may not be a better candidate than Miller right now…Focusing only on his play as a run defender and in coverage, he is still having an All-Pro caliber season…Miller is also the only linebacker in the league with more than 25 tackles that has yet to miss one…The scary part is that when most rookies are running into the metaphorical wall, Miller seems to be getting stronger. His past four games have been his strongest four, and at the moment he is proving to be an adversary that right tackles can’t contain…This might be the most dominant season from a rookie since Randy Moss defined the word ‘uncoverable’ in his first year with a chip on his shoulder in 1998.

Miller was just named the NFL's Defensive Rookie of the Month




http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/pff-von-miller-most-dominant-rookie-since-randy-moss

Agreed, I wonder if he sits out this Viking game. If it was me, I would say .. sit him out and at least let the stitches heal a bit.

Its looking like Peterson is not going to play.

Borks147
12-01-2011, 10:17 AM
Agreed, I wonder if he sits out this Viking game. If it was me, I would say .. sit him out and at least let the stitches heal a bit.

Its looking like Peterson is not going to play.

If he can go he has to go - they need to be thinking about winning out and you can't drop a game like the Vikings with NE and the Bears coming up.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 10:19 AM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this is getting out of control.

Since Randy Moss, here are some of the great rookie seasons (even excluding offensive players)

Jervon Kearse - 14.5 sacks
Brian Urlacher - 123 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 INTs
Julius Peppers - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 5 FF
Terrell Suggs - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 6 FF
Merri-roid - lol juice DQ
Patrick Willis - One hundred and seventy four ****ing tackles, 4 sacks
Suh - 66 tackles, 10 sacks from the DT position

He's in this class for sure, but PFF is getting out of control. Let his play do the talking and curb some outrageous expectations. He's getting there and has an insane work ethic judging from all his interviews.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 10:20 AM
If he can go he has to go - they need to be thinking about winning out and you can't drop a game like the Vikings with NE and the Bears coming up.

^

Man-Goblin
12-01-2011, 10:38 AM
I like his glasses.

Rolandftw
12-01-2011, 10:46 AM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this is getting out of control.

Since Randy Moss, here are some of the great rookie seasons (even excluding offensive players)

Jervon Kearse - 14.5 sacks
Brian Urlacher - 123 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 INTs
Julius Peppers - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 5 FF
Terrell Suggs - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 6 FF
Merri-roid - lol juice DQ
Patrick Willis - One hundred and seventy four ****ing tackles, 4 sacks
Suh - 66 tackles, 10 sacks from the DT position

He's in this class for sure, but PFF is getting out of control. Let his play do the talking and curb some outrageous expectations. He's getting there and has an insane work ethic judging from all his interviews.

He will probably surpass most of those players on that list that are remotely comparable. Hard to compare a middle linebacker to him, and it's hard to compare a DT to him. Other then that, think the analysis is pretty spot on.

Lycan
12-01-2011, 10:51 AM
Stories of the Season: Miller Much More Than the ROY
www.profootballfocus.com


It’s time we forgot talk of best rookie and started to think in terms of Pro-Bowl, All-Pro, maybe even Defensive Player of the Year. It sounds crazy, but there may not be a better candidate than Miller right now…Focusing only on his play as a run defender and in coverage, he is still having an All-Pro caliber season…Miller is also the only linebacker in the league with more than 25 tackles that has yet to miss one…The scary part is that when most rookies are running into the metaphorical wall, Miller seems to be getting stronger. His past four games have been his strongest four, and at the moment he is proving to be an adversary that right tackles can’t contain…This might be the most dominant season from a rookie since Randy Moss defined the word ‘uncoverable’ in his first year with a chip on his shoulder in 1998.

Miller was just named the NFL's Defensive Rookie of the Month




http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/pff-von-miller-most-dominant-rookie-since-randy-moss


Is that stat for real? If so that is way more impressive to me than the sacks.

Maybe it's just because of the way our Defense has played prior to this year but having a 100% tackler is awesome.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 11:05 AM
He will probably surpass most of those players on that list that are remotely comparable. Hard to compare a middle linebacker to him, and it's hard to compare a DT to him. Other then that, think the analysis is pretty spot on.

Agree. He probably will. But let's let him actually do that, shall we?

vonqkilla
12-01-2011, 11:12 AM
We should probably trade him now then for P.Peterson while we can. Buy low sell high!!!

From rotoworld:

P.P. Has 10 penalties for 121 yards already this season. Peterson's performance in the punt return game has been electric, but his play at corner has been downright bad. The No. 5 overall pick ranks among the worst starting corners in the league according to Pro Football Focus and gets relentlessly attacked on a weekly basis. The Cardinals would be wise to keep him away from Brandon Lloyd on Sunday. Nov 23 - 10:

underrated29
12-01-2011, 11:18 AM
He will probably surpass most of those players on that list that are remotely comparable. Hard to compare a middle linebacker to him, and it's hard to compare a DT to him. Other then that, think the analysis is pretty spot on.



Agreed. He has 4 weeks left including this week, if he plays, he should be able to beat most of those. It is within the realm of possibility, ****, its knocking on the damn door with a sledge!

And they said he has not missed a single tackle!- That in itself is really impressive. Its just like a RB going the year without a fumble or a QB going the year without an INT....That is an amazing stat all by itself, let alone the pretty stuff that we like to see (QBs getting drilled)

Kaylore
12-01-2011, 11:18 AM
Agree. He probably will. But let's let him actually do that, shall we?

I saw you toilet papering his house last night.

SureShot
12-01-2011, 11:21 AM
Von Miller is pretty good but he's no Mike Croel.

bronco militia
12-01-2011, 11:22 AM
Von Miller is pretty good but he's no Mike Croel.

:rofl:

bowtown
12-01-2011, 11:24 AM
Von Miller is pretty good but he's no Mike Croel.

Or Eddie Royal.

SureShot
12-01-2011, 11:27 AM
Or Eddie Royal.

Eddie led the team in 2pt receptions his rookie year just sayin.

bowtown
12-01-2011, 11:29 AM
Eddie led the team in 2pt receptions his rookie year just sayin.

I read somewhere recently that sacks are worth 2 points.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 11:32 AM
I read somewhere recently that sacks are worth 2 points.

Ted Sundquist says INTs are woth 15 points.

GMs totally use that.

bronco militia
12-01-2011, 11:34 AM
ha ha

SureShot
12-01-2011, 11:40 AM
I read somewhere recently that sacks are worth 2 points.

By that math Von will need 16 sacks to equal Eddie Royals rookie year. Good luck with that Von.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 11:45 AM
By that math Von will need 16 sacks to equal Eddie Royals rookie year. Good luck with that Von.

Clady kept a ****load of points off the board his rookie year!

SureShot
12-01-2011, 11:46 AM
Clady kept a ****load of points off the board his rookie year!

Every successful pass block is worth .1 points.

bowtown
12-01-2011, 11:50 AM
Every successful pass block is worth .1 points.

And every successful snap is worth 4, which is why Paxton is the highest paid player on the team.

Rolandftw
12-01-2011, 11:53 AM
Agree. He probably will. But let's let him actually do that, shall we?

That's not how the media analyzes sports though. When a team wins a title in an impressive way, they talk about how it could be a dynasty. People are already assuming the Packers go 19-0, even though they still have 8 games to go.

I'll say this: I've never seen a rookie on the Broncos dominate to the extent Von has this year. Normally, I cringe when the Broncos are on defense. Not this year.

Kaylore
12-01-2011, 11:56 AM
Ted Sundquist says INTs are woth 15 points.

GMs totally use that.

I totally forgot about that. What is Ted doing these days?

boppool
12-01-2011, 12:13 PM
I totally forgot about that. What is Ted doing these days?

He's a College Gameday Analyst at The Mtn. covering Mountain West football.

http://tedsundquist38.com/

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2011, 12:17 PM
From rotoworld:

P.P. Has 10 penalties for 121 yards already this season. Peterson's performance in the punt return game has been electric, but his play at corner has been downright bad. The No. 5 overall pick ranks among the worst starting corners in the league according to Pro Football Focus and gets relentlessly attacked on a weekly basis. The Cardinals would be wise to keep him away from Brandon Lloyd on Sunday. Nov 23 - 10:

Really?

Is there any analysis out there on why Peterson is struggling in coverage?

bowtown
12-01-2011, 12:35 PM
Really?

Is there any analysis out there on why Peterson is struggling in coverage?

Because he's a rookie.

BabyTO
12-01-2011, 12:38 PM
i didnt know von miller's mom worked for pro football focus. those madden playing idiots know nothing about football. a bunch of 13 year olds acting like they're the new bill walsh

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 12:40 PM
Because he's a rookie.

Because its not true. He gave up one catch last week (a backshoulder throw to lloyd and a really pretty catch.

But I won't say anymore about him because complimenting any other rookies somehow slights Von Miller.

bendog
12-01-2011, 12:42 PM
Because its not true. He gave up one catch last week (a backshoulder throw to lloyd and a really pretty catch.

But I won't say anymore about him because complimenting any other rookies somehow slights Von Miller.

I don't think so. But Peterson is not having a rookie year as good as miller's, and yeah I know Miller got pulled on some coverage schemes.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2011, 12:45 PM
Because he's a rookie.

There are reasons why different players struggle. I was hoping for more in-depth analysis than "he's a rookie". :thumbsup:

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2011, 12:46 PM
complimenting any other rookies somehow slights Von Miller.

Not in your case.

Its a matter of pride for you to admit that Miller was a better pick and is a better player...but as for most other people you are correct.

bowtown
12-01-2011, 12:46 PM
Because its not true. He gave up one catch last week (a backshoulder throw to lloyd and a really pretty catch.

But I won't say anymore about him because complimenting any other rookies somehow slights Von Miller.

So does that huge bag of weed you tried to plant in his glove box yesterday.

mkporter
12-01-2011, 12:54 PM
I don't think so. But every rookie other than Miller is not having a rookie year as good as miller's, and yeah I know Miller got pulled on some coverage schemes.

FIFY

bowtown
12-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Just think of what Miller could have accomplished this year if The Rev wasn't trying to sabotage him.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 12:58 PM
Not in your case.

Its a matter of pride for you to admit that Miller was a better pick and is a better player...but as for most other people you are correct.

Examples...?

This is me pre-draft on Miller:

I agree. I have NOTHING negative to say about Miller.

Oh and it would and COULD be a very interesting possibility, and if he's the selection I'll be excited to see it in action

This is me selecting him in the OM Mock Draft:

Round 1

1-5(5) - Arizona (TheReverend): Von Miller, LB, Texas A&M

Boy, am I out to get him or what?!?!?

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 12:58 PM
Just think of what Miller could have accomplished this year if The Rev wasn't trying to sabotage him.

Prob another 30 pts worth of sacks.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2011, 01:01 PM
Examples...?

This is me pre-draft on Miller:

This is me selecting him in the OM Mock Draft:

Boy, am I out to get him or what?!?!?

It doesn't matter if you are "out to get him" or not, because it has no discernable influence on anything.

But I think that you'd be the only person who frequents this forum and who has read some of your posts who would believe that you haven't tried to prop up Peterson at Miller's expense.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 01:04 PM
It doesn't matter if you are "out to get him" or not, because it has no discernable influence on anything.

But I think that you'd be the only person who frequents this forum and who has read some of your posts who would believe that you haven't tried to prop up Peterson at Miller's expense.

After all this time, I still can't figure out why people call you "Drama Llama"...?

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this is getting out of control.

Since Randy Moss, here are some of the great rookie seasons (even excluding offensive players)

Jervon Kearse - 14.5 sacks
Brian Urlacher - 123 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 INTs
Julius Peppers - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 5 FF
Terrell Suggs - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 6 FF
Merri-roid - lol juice DQ
Patrick Willis - One hundred and seventy four ****ing tackles, 4 sacks
Suh - 66 tackles, 10 sacks from the DT position

He's in this class for sure, but PFF is getting out of control. Let his play do the talking and curb some outrageous expectations. He's getting there and has an insane work ethic judging from all his interviews.

At his current pace he's better than all of those.

epicSocialism4tw
12-01-2011, 01:08 PM
After all this time, I still can't figure out why people call you "Drama Llama"...?

Probably because you are pwned. That would be my guess.

Shotgun Willie
12-01-2011, 01:10 PM
Examples...?

This is me pre-draft on Miller:





This is me selecting him in the OM Mock Draft:



Boy, am I out to get him or what?!?!?

To be fair, this is also you pre-draft re: Miller:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3102864&postcount=12

TonyR
12-01-2011, 01:11 PM
...Miller has been arguably the biggest reason behind the defensive resurgence in Denver...

Wait, didn't they get the memo that Tim Tebow is the biggest reason for Denver's "defensive resurgence"?!? Haters! Trolls!

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 01:12 PM
At his current pace he's better than all of those.

At the very least he completely belongs in that company, but I disagree about surpassing all of those. He needs to get back to separating the ball from the QB like he was doing with some regularity early on and force some turnovers to leap to the head of that class and into dPoy territory.

Smiling Assassin27
12-01-2011, 01:13 PM
Wait, didn't they get the memo that Tim Tebow is the biggest reason for Denver's "defensive resurgence"?!? Haters! Trolls! God Bless.

FIFY

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 01:13 PM
To be fair, this is also you pre-draft re: Miller:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3102864&postcount=12

Haha, yeah. I really didn't like him in January.

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 01:16 PM
At the very least he completely belongs in that company, but I disagree about surpassing all of those. He needs to get back to separating the ball from the QB like he was doing with some regularity early on and force some turnovers to leap to the head of that class and into dPoy territory.

Forcing turnovers off of sacks is mostly luck.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 01:19 PM
Forcing turnovers off of sacks is mostly luck.

Oh jesus christ.

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 01:22 PM
Oh jesus christ.

Getting to the QB is one thing, but a player has no control over whether or not the QB sees them (and Miller doesn't usually rush from the blindside), or whether or not the QB is in the middle of throwing the ball when he gets there. Miller blasts QBs on a regular basis, and that produces fumbles over time. Nitpicking his FF number is just dumb. And he has four of them right now anyway...

DrFate
12-01-2011, 01:24 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this is getting out of control.

Rev, get with the program. Von Miller is the best player in the history of sports history!!

Don't worry about rookie seasons like Kearse or Dickerson or Boldin or ANYBODY. It's all Miller, all the time :afro:

Miller = great season
Miller < all kinds of other rookie seasons

Punisher
12-01-2011, 01:25 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this is getting out of control.

Since Randy Moss, here are some of the great rookie seasons (even excluding offensive players)

Jervon Kearse - 14.5 sacks
Brian Urlacher - 123 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 INTs
Julius Peppers - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 5 FF
Terrell Suggs - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 6 FF
Merri-roid - lol juice DQ
Patrick Willis - One hundred and seventy four ****ing tackles, 4 sacks
Suh - 66 tackles, 10 sacks from the DT position

He's in this class for sure, but PFF is getting out of control. Let his play do the talking and curb some outrageous expectations. He's getting there and has an insane work ethic judging from all his interviews.

Agree lol

SureShot
12-01-2011, 01:26 PM
Forcing turnovers off of sacks is mostly luck.

Oh man this place is golden

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 01:28 PM
Getting to the QB is one thing, but a player has no control over whether or not the QB sees them (and Miller doesn't usually rush from the blindside), or whether or not the QB is in the middle of throwing the ball when he gets there. Miller blasts QBs on a regular basis, and that produces fumbles over time. Nitpicking his FF number is just dumb. And he has four of them right now anyway...

First of all, lol.

Secondly, he has two. None in the past 8 games.

kdissette
12-01-2011, 01:32 PM
IN VON WE TRUST

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 01:34 PM
First of all, lol.

Secondly, he has two. None in the past 8 games.

Okay, get that "lol" **** out of here and actually explain how FF's are the result of something a pass rusher actively does more than lucky timing. I mean I know there are some situations where a guy actively strips the ball, but most QB fumbles seem to come off blindside hits or during a windup, and I don't see how a pass rusher controls those circumstances.

Though you're right about the FF number. I got his pass defense number and his forced fumble number mixed up.

campocorto
12-01-2011, 01:40 PM
Interview with Von Miller on 850 KOA this morning.

http://www.broncosradionetwork.com/player/?station=KOA2-IP&program_name=podcast&program_id=vonmiller.xml&mid=21631052

campocorto
12-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Really?

Is there any analysis out there on why Peterson is struggling in coverage?

Just my personal opinion, Peterson is not really a true cover corner.

I think he would be better suited in a safety role where he could sit back in a zone and be Ed Reed.

Rolandftw
12-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Just my personal opinion, Peterson is not really a true cover corner.

I think he would be better suited in a safety role where he could sit back in a zone and be Ed Reed.

This. It's inevitable he's going to move to safety. Which isn't exactly a bad thing.

bendog
12-01-2011, 02:26 PM
This. It's inevitable he's going to move to safety. Which isn't exactly a bad thing.

No it's not. And patrick willis is a beast.

underrated29
12-01-2011, 02:32 PM
Just my personal opinion, Peterson is not really a true cover corner.

I think he would be better suited in a safety role where he could sit back in a zone and be Ed Reed.



OMG this. I was saying this before the draft, even in the draft thread where Rev and I went back on forth on Miller and PP...


But like most of us seem to think as does the post below yours, PP could be an All World Saftey. An Eric Berry adrian wilson....Prince IMO was the best CB in the last draft.

underrated29
12-01-2011, 02:36 PM
Oh jesus christ.



How dare you use Tebows name in vain! Especially in front of agamemnon

extralife
12-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Man, I don't even know that Miller has been the best Bronco rookie since 1998 (Clady), nevermind the best rookie period.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 02:43 PM
Okay, get that "lol" **** out of here and actually explain how FF's are the result of something a pass rusher actively does more than lucky timing. I mean I know there are some situations where a guy actively strips the ball, but most QB fumbles seem to come off blindside hits or during a windup, and I don't see how a pass rusher controls those circumstances.

Though you're right about the FF number. I got his pass defense number and his forced fumble number mixed up.

...putting you're hand on the ball...

bowtown
12-01-2011, 02:47 PM
...putting you're hand on the ball...

I'll take "Things I don't tell my wife to stop" for a thousand.

Spider
12-01-2011, 03:54 PM
Forget better, if he simply maintains what he is doing right now he'll be a legend by the time he's done.

Miller is gong to get alot better , Offenses are going to have to game plan just for him , his is a disruptive force now , but when he gets more time under his belt ....just wow

Popps
12-01-2011, 03:55 PM
But, we could have had a cornerbaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 03:55 PM
But, we could have had a cornerbaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!

Nice to see you keeping up your standard comprehension level.

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 04:12 PM
...putting you're hand on the ball...

Which really only happens when the ball is exposed during the throwing motion or you can get a shot at it without the QB seeing you. How often does Miller really get a shot at an exposed ball, especially coming from a direction where the QB sees him coming and can secure it before going down? Rushing from the blindside is where those situations usually come into play, and Miller doesn't get to do that very often.

And I certainly wouldn't want to see him start slapping at the ball rather than wrapping the QB up, I'll say that much...

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 04:17 PM
Which really only happens when the ball is exposed during the throwing motion or you can get a shot at it without the QB seeing you. How often does Miller really get a shot at an exposed ball, especially coming from a direction where the QB sees him coming and can secure it before going down? Rushing from the blindside is where those situations usually come into play, and Miller doesn't get to do that very often.

And I certainly wouldn't want to see him start slapping at the ball rather than wrapping the QB up, I'll say that much...

1. That's not true.

2. Miller gets moved around a lot...

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 04:26 PM
1. That's not true.

2. Miller gets moved around a lot...

1. Again, how is that not true? Are you saying that 80-90% of QB fumbles don't come from blindside hits, or having the ball swatted while in a throwing motion or while unaware of a defender?

2. Yes he does, but he rarely comes from the blindside when Dumervil is in, at least from what I've seen.

For anyone who has tape on all of Miller's sacks, I'd love to hear some analysis on whether or not he could've done more to force fumbles on those plays. I certainly haven't gotten that impression watching him play. He gets to the QB, hits them hard, but they usually see him coming and protect the ball. At least that's been my impression.

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 05:21 PM
1. Again, how is that not true? Are you saying that 80-90% of QB fumbles don't come from blindside hits, or having the ball swatted while in a throwing motion or while unaware of a defender?

2. Yes he does, but he rarely comes from the blindside when Dumervil is in, at least from what I've seen.

For anyone who has tape on all of Miller's sacks, I'd love to hear some analysis on whether or not he could've done more to force fumbles on those plays. I certainly haven't gotten that impression watching him play. He gets to the QB, hits them hard, but they usually see him coming and protect the ball. At least that's been my impression.

Man is it a pain in the ass finding clips of his sacks...

The one on Rivers he comes from the left side, Rivers is reading away from Miller and he gets hit with the ball untucked

The one on Sanchez from the left side, Sanchez is reading away from Miller and he gets hit with the ball untucked

Couldn't find Cassel/Moore/Rogers, etc

But I COULD find the ONLY sack/FF combo he has (and yes, there's only 1). It's against Hasselbeck and it's also from the left side.

vonqkilla
12-01-2011, 05:21 PM
1. Again, how is that not true? Are you saying that 80-90% of QB fumbles don't come from blindside hits, or having the ball swatted while in a throwing motion or while unaware of a defender?

2. Yes he does, but he rarely comes from the blindside when Dumervil is in, at least from what I've seen.

For anyone who has tape on all of Miller's sacks, I'd love to hear some analysis on whether or not he could've done more to force fumbles on those plays. I certainly haven't gotten that impression watching him play. He gets to the QB, hits them hard, but they usually see him coming and protect the ball. At least that's been my impression.
While most of what you have said is so-so on this thread, ie luck, that was dumb...

Almost all his sacks have been from the left. Once he stunted and got there. 2 vs rodgetrs and dalton, no shot at strip, same with cassel and rivers. Hesitation of a split second at those angles means ball is out.

He could forget about a hard hit like vs sanchez and go out of his way for a strip, but many times huge impacts cause them. Helmet ball side is what your taught.

Rev saying he needs strip sacks and phenominal plays is due to his lack of numbers for some dumbass award that has nothing to do with Ws so who gives a fk either way. Itd be nice but ive seen guys go for strips and miss the tackle all together! Frontside, its hit the guy.

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 05:37 PM
While most of what you have said is so-so on this thread, ie luck, that was dumb...


Not sure why. It's not luck when a guy beats his guy and gets to the QB, but a lot is involved in a QB fumble that can be completely out of a pass rusher's control. If it's outside their control, that would seem to be luck.

Not to say that there isn't some skill involved, or that some players may have a better instinct for getting a hand on the ball and knocking it free, but to me this feels a lot like cornerbacks being judged by how many interceptions they have when so much of that has to do with opposing QBs making bad decisions/throws or pass rushers forcing QBs into bad situations.

vonqkilla
12-01-2011, 05:41 PM
Vs hasslebeck he lunged and deliberately swatted it out. Ive posted each sack as my avatar, hasslebeck from frontside. Picture available at yahoo.com I bet.

vonqkilla
12-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Your definition of luck is where he lines up what the qb does. Who cares. Win.

vonqkilla
12-01-2011, 05:54 PM
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/aurorasentinel.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/66/6668df7a-e839-11e0-ab06-001cc4c03286/4e806d2d03925.image.jpg

Hasslebeck was holding the ball away from him looking downfield, freebie strip sack really.

extralife
12-01-2011, 06:25 PM
are we really complaining about Von Miller not having enough sack/forced fumbles? is that happening?

SureShot
12-01-2011, 06:35 PM
are we really complaining about Von Miller not having enough sack/forced fumbles? is that happening?

Hey we are complaining about all the other ways we are winning why not?

extralife
12-01-2011, 06:48 PM
owait, it's just Rev needing to be right about everything again. patrick peterson! he's better I swear! look von miller doesn't lead the NFL in FF!!!111

Agamemnon
12-01-2011, 06:51 PM
are we really complaining about Von Miller not having enough sack/forced fumbles? is that happening?

More along the lines of Rev nitpicking every little thing and trying to find reasons Miller isn't as good as the other elite defenders in the league...

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 06:56 PM
owait, it's just Rev needing to be right about everything again. patrick peterson! he's better I swear! look von miller doesn't lead the NFL in FF!!!111

Quote where I brought him up?

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 07:00 PM
are we really complaining about Von Miller not having enough sack/forced fumbles? is that happening?

Complicated for you to follow (as everything is) so I'll make it super simple:

1. See thread title.

2. Recognize thread subject is comparing Miller to other dominant rookie seasons

3. See comparisons of Miller to other dominant rookie seasons.

4. Make relevant post instead of what you actually did.

extralife
12-01-2011, 07:05 PM
Quote where I brought him up?

should I like link to the wikipedia article on inference or can we just not do this

TheReverend
12-01-2011, 07:09 PM
should I like link to the wikipedia article on inference or can we just not do this

Show where I inferred anything...?

I even ignored OTHER PEOPLE talking about Peterson for over a page, but that doesn't fit your agenda so whatever.

I'll say this again:

Complicated for you to follow (as everything is) so I'll make it super simple:

1. See thread title.

2. Recognize thread subject is comparing Miller to other dominant rookie seasons

3. See comparisons of Miller to other dominant rookie seasons.

4. Make relevant post instead of what you actually did.

Bacchus
12-01-2011, 07:21 PM
Oh for the love of ****ing christ, this is getting out of control.

Since Randy Moss, here are some of the great rookie seasons (even excluding offensive players)

Jervon Kearse - 14.5 sacks
Brian Urlacher - 123 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 INTs
Julius Peppers - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 5 FF
Terrell Suggs - 12 sacks, 1 INT, 6 FF
Merri-roid - lol juice DQ
Patrick Willis - One hundred and seventy four ****ing tackles, 4 sacks
Suh - 66 tackles, 10 sacks from the DT position

He's in this class for sure, but PFF is getting out of control. Let his play do the talking and curb some outrageous expectations. He's getting there and has an insane work ethic judging from all his interviews.

Well, the article did say that not only does he have great stats as a sack artist but he is also grades out as the best run stuffer in the league.