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i4jelway7
11-29-2011, 10:53 AM
other QB's

http://t.co/FJY3w2kW

"Put most simply, Tebow consistently outplays the other team's quarterback, often by wide margins. This superior play is the No. 1 reason for Denver's sudden success -- now 5-1 with Tebow at QB this year after a dismal 1-4 start. But these superior performances seem lost on even the most knowledgeable football minds, like that of Broncos executive and Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway, for example."

Kaylore
11-29-2011, 10:57 AM
Uh oh. I wonder if Merill Hoge will call and scream at Byrne the way he was screaming at Tim Hasselbeck yesterday...

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 11:10 AM
Kid has a nose for the endzone and he rarely turns the ball over

Pretty straight forward

yerner
11-29-2011, 11:17 AM
Ok. It's interesting. I'll be more convinced as soon as he starts attempting to get the ball in the hands of his wrs more often. He doesn't turn it over which is great, but they haven't been getting the ball to Thomas, Royal, and Decker enough one way or the other. He starts doing that and he will get all the respect he deserves.

jhns
11-29-2011, 11:22 AM
The defense is a big part of that too.

I like how Tebow can't throw but every QB we face misses receivers by just as much, if not more, than Tebow. Rivers had a lot of terrible throws.

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 11:22 AM
Ok. It's interesting. I'll be more convinced as soon as he starts attempting to get the ball in the hands of his wrs more often. He doesn't turn it over which is great, but they haven't been getting the ball to Thomas, Royal, and Decker enough one way or the other. He starts doing that and he will get all the respect he deserves.

Thomas is MIA, royal is a better PR than WR, and decker makes catches when he wants to

Tebow needs to improve for sure, but his supporting cast is nothing to rave about

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 11:23 AM
So Elway and most observers seem to treat Tebow like a circus freak, a statistically deformed football curiosity who wins games in spite of his own feeble ability to pass the football.

You can win one or maybe two games in the NFL with some kind of fluky effort at QB. But the statistical length and breadth of NFL history shows that teams that win consistently do the same things well over and over -- and those same things begin and end with the quarterback position...

In other words, Tebow is no statistical circus freak winning in spite of himself. Tebow's Broncos are winning because he consistently outperforms the opposing quarterback when you take into account all aspects of production: passing, running, sacks, total touchdowns, interceptions and fumbles. In fact, he consistently outperforms them by a wide margin.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/11/29/tim.tebow/index.html#ixzz1f7k02qaq

"Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 11:32 AM
The defense is a big part of that too.

I like how Tebow can't throw but every QB we face misses receivers by just as much, if not more, than Tebow. Rivers had a lot of terrible throws.So he's going up against bad QBs. rivers is the closest thing to a good QB that tebow has faced.
If you look at rivers body of work in the NFL,he is a great passer. has proven that yr in & yr out. he's having a bad yr,that is all.

jhns
11-29-2011, 11:35 AM
So he's going up against bad QBs. rivers is the closest thing to a good QB that tebow has faced.
If you look at rivers body of work in the NFL,he is a great passer. has proven that yr in & yr out. he's having a bad yr,that is all.

So all these starting NFl QBs are worse, but he isn't an NFL stsrting QB? Makes sense to me!

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 11:35 AM
So he's going up against bad QBs. rivers is the closest thing to a good QB that tebow has faced.
If you look at rivers body of work in the NFL,he is a great shot putter. has proven that yr in & yr out. he's having a bad yr,that is all.

Fixed

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 11:37 AM
So all these starting NFl QBs are worse, but he isn't an NFL stsrting QB? Makes sense to me!

he isn't,the whole reason we're playing in the option is because tebow can't play the QB position. If he could we wouldn't be playing the option.

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 11:38 AM
He is only better than Mark Sanchez, Phillip Rivers, and Carsen Palmer, and considering Rivers is having a bad year, it really doesn't count, the only thing that counts is what Tebow does bad, not good. Hater OUT~!!

Peace Pipe eh? More like a crack pipe~!!

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 11:41 AM
He is only better than Mark Sanchez, Phillip Rivers, and Carsen Palmer, and considering Rivers is having a bad year, it really doesn't count, the only thing that counts is what Tebow does bad, not good. Hater OUT~!!

whatever, comming from someone who thinks if your not sucking on the nuts of tebow you must be a hater.

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 11:41 AM
Put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard.

vonqkilla
11-29-2011, 11:44 AM
he isn't,the whole reason we're playing in the option is because tebow can't play the QB position. If he could we wouldn't be playing the option.

Having coached football for years, its opinions like this that have me smh.

If you are winning, it doesnt matter how, why, or who is at Qb.

I understand people want us to have A Rodgers or Manning.

Would you prefer Gabbert and his deer in headlights look, Ponder and his ints, Ortons 1-4,

Or be a game back in the playoff hunt?

Smh

jhns
11-29-2011, 11:46 AM
he isn't,the whole reason we're playing in the option is because tebow can't play the QB position. If he could we wouldn't be playing the option.

You poor raider fans must have to cry yourselves to speep at this point. You almost had the division, then we switched to a real QB.

Old Dude
11-29-2011, 11:51 AM
Very interesting article. And Tebow's been doing that with a very young offensive line and an inexperienced receiving corps.

Let's hope he can keep it going.

TheReverend
11-29-2011, 11:56 AM
Good piece

Pony Boy
11-29-2011, 11:59 AM
Urban Meyer knows the value of Tim Tebow, he wouldn't be at Ohio State without him .........

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 12:03 PM
Urban Meyer knows the value of Tim Tebow, he wouldn't be at Ohio State without him .........

From what I gather the QB he has at Ohio State is no circus freak either.;D

Dagmar
11-29-2011, 12:06 PM
So Elway and most observers seem to treat Tebow like a circus freak, a statistically deformed football curiosity who wins games in spite of his own feeble ability to pass the football.

You can win one or maybe two games in the NFL with some kind of fluky effort at QB. But the statistical length and breadth of NFL history shows that teams that win consistently do the same things well over and over -- and those same things begin and end with the quarterback position...


In other words, Tebow is no statistical circus freak winning in spite of himself. Tebow's Broncos are winning because he consistently outperforms the opposing quarterback when you take into account all aspects of production: passing, running, sacks, total touchdowns, interceptions and fumbles. In fact, he consistently outperforms them by a wide margin.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/11/29/tim.tebow/index.html#ixzz1f7k02qaq

I could have written this article. I love it, thanks for sharing Jelway


These have to be my favorite quotes from the article...



"Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”

http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif

Rabb
11-29-2011, 12:08 PM
He is only better than Mark Sanchez, Phillip Rivers, and Carsen Palmer, and considering Rivers is having a bad year, it really doesn't count, the only thing that counts is what Tebow does bad, not good. Hater OUT~!!

Peace Pipe eh? More like a crack pipe~!!

serious question, are you retarded?

LonghornBronco
11-29-2011, 12:12 PM
Is this the same as QBR?

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 12:15 PM
serious question, are you retarded?

That is exactly what I was thinking. How can someone possess such an incoherent hatred for Tebow?

ghwk
11-29-2011, 12:18 PM
Uh oh. I wonder if Merill Hoge will call and scream at Byrne the way he was screaming at Tim Hasselbeck yesterday...

Just saw that and Hoge is a bloody idiot. He made such a huge point about Willis' comments regarding it's a team thing. What merrill fails to acknoledge is that is a media created story. Tebow has never once said this team is about him or that he should get the attention.

Look in the dictionary: Hoge=a$$wipe

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 12:21 PM
Just saw that and Hoge is a bloody idiot. He made such a huge point about Willis' comments regarding it's a team thing. What merrill fails to acknoledge is that is a media created story. Tebow has never once said this team is about him or that he should get the attention.

Look in the dictionary: Hoge=a$$wipe

You never hear Tebow saying

"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"

He has a lot more class than that~!!

ghwk
11-29-2011, 12:21 PM
The defense is a big part of that too.

I like how Tebow can't throw but every QB we face misses receivers by just as much, if not more, than Tebow. Rivers had a lot of terrible throws.

You just can't OVEREMPHASIZE how huge a part the defense plays in this as it isn't like our offense is throwing up huge points every game. If the offense was consistently giving up 24+ points a game i don't think we have the record we do now. Offense and Defense both benefit from one another. Very symbiotic, full of chee and very ying yangee. Its the best combo to have.

ghwk
11-29-2011, 12:25 PM
You never hear Tebow saying

"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"

He has a lot more class than that~!!

Thanks for the support but based on your other posts you are a ****ing idiot.

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 12:27 PM
You just can't UNDEREMPHASIZE how huge a part the defense plays in shutting down Tebows passing game when they are not giving up leads

1 pass per game average when we are not behind compared to 116 when we are speaks volumes. Watching Fox allow the defenses performance or lack thereof deictate whether or not Tebow passes or not is the reason we are not lighting up the scoreboard offensively.

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 12:30 PM
Thanks for the support but based on your other posts you are a ****ing idiot.

Your welcome, I don't mind playing the idiot as long as those assuming that I am an idiot wind up getting a clue at the end of the day.

You see I have a bad habbit of casting my pearls before swine, it's what I do, thats how I roll. Can't eat pig on my kosher diet, but at least I can go where angels frear tread in order to cast my pearls of wisdom at them. Ha!

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 12:36 PM
You poor raider fans must have to cry yourselves to speep at this point. You almost had the division, then we switched to a real QB.LOL you don't know a damn thing about me. where does it say I got to be a tebow nutsucker in order to be a broncos fan.

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 12:40 PM
46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.
where's the improvement?
with tebow we're an 8-8,7-9 team.
maybe get in playoffs here & there. but 1 & done.
steelers,patriots teams like that will put games out of reach.

epicSocialism4tw
11-29-2011, 12:50 PM
46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.
where's the improvement?
with tebow we're an 8-8,7-9 team.
maybe get in playoffs here & there. but 1 & done.
steelers,patriots teams like that will put games out of reach.

Go away, troll.

People complain about Tebow supporters, but they only exist because of clowns like this guy here.

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 12:53 PM
I'd much rather be talking about our matchup with the Vikings... I'm made out to be an idiot as a community service...

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.
where's the improvement?
with tebow we're an 8-8,7-9 team.
maybe get in playoffs here & there. but 1 & done.
steelers,patriots teams like that will put games out of reach.

You sound like John Elway harping on completion percentage and 3rd down efficiency being Tebows fault when it has a lot more to do with the scheme and Tebow getting jelled with his receivers?

Tebow has had what 2 months to play with the starters.

You bringing up the Steelers and Patriots is laughable, especially considering the chiefs almost beat the steelers with a back up QB who threw 3 ints.

Didn't we here this same thing abou the Jets?

@ 5-1 this season, Tebows on a 13-3 pace. so playing the 7-9 card at this point is pretty idiotic, especially considering the plethera of data from the article the OP in this thread shared.

You and Elway need to get a clue.

Tebow is no statistical circus freak winning in spite of himself. Tebow's Broncos are winning because he consistently outperforms the opposing quarterback when you take into account all aspects of production: passing, running, sacks, total touchdowns, interceptions and fumbles. In fact, he consistently outperforms them by a wide margin.

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 12:55 PM
Go away, troll.

People complain about Tebow supporters, but they only exist because of clowns like this guy here.really?! a troll calling me a troll:unamused:

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 12:56 PM
I'd much rather be talking about our matchup with the Vikings... I'm made out to be an idiot as a community service...



You sound like John Elway harping on completion percentage and 3rd down efficiency being Tebows fault when it has a lot more to do with the scheme and Tebow getting jelled with his receivers?

Tebow has had what 2 months to play with the starters.

You bringing up the Steelers and Patriots is laughable, especially considering the chiefs almost beat the steelers with a back up QB who threw 3 ints.

Didn't we here this same thing abou the Jets? @ 5-1 this season, Tebows on a 13-3 pace. so playing the 7-9 card at this point is pretty idiotic, especially considering the plethera of data from the article the OP in this thread shared.

You and Elway need to get a clue.

no

Kid A
11-29-2011, 01:09 PM
Cool article, especially the Real QB Rating stuff. I will say that the Career Touch-to-TD ratio (that puts him above the greats of all time) is hugely manipulated by his being used exclusively in the red zone for most of last season. Still, there's no doubt one of his strengths so far has been his knack for big scoring plays when the opportunity is there.

Jetmeck
11-29-2011, 01:13 PM
Thomas is MIA, royal is a better PR than WR, and decker makes catches when he wants to

Tebow needs to improve for sure, but his supporting cast is nothing to rave about

Agreed..............

jhns
11-29-2011, 01:14 PM
LOL you don't know a damn thing about me. where does it say I got to be a tebow nutsucker in order to be a broncos fan.

I know everything I need to know. You hate the player that turned this franchises season around. You can't stand to see this team win.

Raider fan.

maher_tyler
11-29-2011, 01:48 PM
I know everything I need to know. You hate the player that turned this franchises season around. You can't stand to see this team win.

Raider fan.

Even when the stats are right in front of them, they make excuses for why Tebow sucks or why we'll be lucky to make the playoffs. I've never seen someone hate someone so much on their favorite team or at least be so negative towards that player. Especially when we're winning. I've been pointing out for awhile that a big part of the turnaround is because Tebow doesn't turn the ball over. He's still extremely raw, to think he'll never get better at throwing the ball is flat out ignorant! How many different people have we heard say he works harder than anyone else they have ever been around? I'll support the guy that wins games and might look ugly doing it. If you want to look at pretty stats all day, go play fantasy football or something. Eli Manning threw for 406 yards last night, guess what, he still lost!

Armchair Bronco
11-29-2011, 01:49 PM
Another great article from SI this week.

I also think another simple, litmus test stat is first downs by rushing...and Denver has A LOT of those. If you get lots of first downs rushing, you're playing smash mouth ball and winning.

jhns
11-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Even when the stats are right in front of them, they make excuses for why Tebow sucks or why we'll be lucky to make the playoffs. I've never seen someone hate someone so much on their favorite team or at least be so negative towards that player. Especially when we're winning. I've been pointing out for awhile that a big part of the turnaround is because Tebow doesn't turn the ball over. He's still extremely raw, to think he'll never get better at throwing the ball is flat out ignorant! How many different people have we heard say he works harder than anyone else they have ever been around? I'll support the guy that wins games and might look ugly doing it. If you want to look at pretty stats all day, go play fantasy football or something. Eli Manning threw for 406 yards last night, guess what, he still lost!

Yup. I never liked Orton as a QB, but even I stopped the hate when he went 6-0. I even started to like him at that point. How can you hate a player that is helping the team win?

If you feel you have to hate Tebow, at peast keep it to yourself until he loses some(if that ever happens). Right now, you just look like a moronic hater.

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 02:04 PM
I found this article about Tebow being picked up by the Vikings if the Broncos did not take him ahead of them in the first round.


Tim TeBow almost a Viking?

I have to preface my Tebow theory on facial reaction. I’m a good poker player because I’m pretty adept at reading people. When the Broncos pulled the trigger on Tebow with the 25th pick, the Vikings were sitting at No. 30. They were coming off a season in which they were a botched play away from the Super Bowl and expected to return all 22 starters. Those were heady days.

There had been speculation that someone might roll the dice on Tebow, but the prevailing thought was that his slide could last well into the second round. After he went off the board, the Vikings started working the phones to trade out of the 30th spot. When Viking Update was in the post-pick interview throng with Rick Spielman and Brad Childress, both admitted that the team started talking to other teams “three of four picks before our pick came up.” While Mike Tice could have learned something from that thought process, it brought up the red flag as to the timing – the trade chatter started when Tebow went off the board.

I asked both Childress and Spielman about their reaction to Tebow going to the Broncos and both of them gave a “tell,” as they say in the poker world. Both seemed to react to the mention of his name and both were highly complimentary of the Broncos for having the courage to take Tebow that high, not the collective head scratching going on in other war rooms.

The more I thought about those reactions, the more I became convinced. What better situation was there for Tebow? Coming off the amazing success Brett Favre had enjoyed with the Vikings, there seemed little doubt the veteran was coming back in 2010. Not only would there be no pressure to force Tebow into the lineup, he would have a year to learn from a Hall of Famer and, as Vikings fans are now intimately aware, no rookie QB would stoke Favre’s massive ego as much as a hungry youngster hanging on every word of the Gospel According to Brett. He would be Favre’s legacy and a chance to make amends for not being the ideal mentor of Aaron Rodgers (if Favre cares about such things at all).

Throw into the mix that the Vikings already had Tebow’s Florida teammate Percy Harvin, who became an electrifying open-field player catching passes and taking pitches from Tebow, and things might have been much different.

http://min.scout.com/2/1133795.html

Popps
11-29-2011, 02:09 PM
http://steelwhitetable.org/media/images/animated/penn_jillette.gif

:thumbsup:

BroncsCheer
11-29-2011, 02:10 PM
But but but but but, he's not a pretty passer!!!!!11!!!

give a ****ing break. some of you guys sound like the people who thought if you travel at more than 40mph, your face will fly off back when automobiles were just coming out.

anyone who doesn't like winning, regardless of the fashion, is a moran. no reasonable person believes this QB has it all down pat, and NO ONE can predict whether or not he will eventually meet some arbitrary mold set down by douchnozzle analysts and message board heros, so why bother?

dude's part of a good team that is winning games, that's all i need to know.

Chris
11-29-2011, 02:12 PM
other QB's

http://t.co/FJY3w2kW

"Put most simply, Tebow consistently outplays the other team's quarterback, often by wide margins. This superior play is the No. 1 reason for Denver's sudden success -- now 5-1 with Tebow at QB this year after a dismal 1-4 start. But these superior performances seem lost on even the most knowledgeable football minds, like that of Broncos executive and Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway, for example."

Sorry it was going well but he lost all credibility at "foie gras is not that tasty".

Mogulseeker
11-29-2011, 02:23 PM
You never hear Tebow saying

"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"

He has a lot more class than that~!!

That's because it is McGahee

Steve Prefontaine
11-29-2011, 02:25 PM
You never hear Tebow saying

"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"
"Its not Megahee"

He has a lot more class than that~!!
Megahee.
Megayhee.
MeccaGayhee.
MeccaMcGayhee...

MeccaLeccaHighMeccaHineyHo!

Broncbow
11-29-2011, 03:36 PM
You forgot Megagayheehee

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6A8j2EQmANk/TKqmPHl8iiI/AAAAAAAAUq0/WcwOZRLOtaU/s1600/Willis+McGahee+photo+&+wiki+4.jpg


More from SI

Tim Tebow, QB, Broncos (64 percent owned)

We all know Tebow is the best QB in the league, but for some reason, fantasy owners don't seem to be acknowledging that fact. Fools. All kidding aside, owning Tebow is like playing an elite running back in your QB slot. He is the sixth most efficient rusher in the league, which more than makes up for his dismal passing numbers. Tebow has put up 13-plus every week so far and has scored 16-plus in all but one game. In fact, Tebow, surprisingly, is one of the most consistent QBs in the league since his first start in Denver. He's a top 10 fantasy QB, despite throwing the ball like a drunk Tyler Palko with a rotator cuff injury.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/fantasy/11/29/fantasy-football-values/index.html#ixzz1f8jnBaBe

Agamemnon
11-29-2011, 03:40 PM
Basically the haters have one stat to hang their arguments on: completion percentage. In every other way Tebow is doing a damn fine job. And he's only getting better...

Kaylore
11-29-2011, 03:43 PM
Megahee.
Megayhee.
MeccaGayhee.
MeccaMcGayhee...

MeccaLeccaHighMeccaHineyHo!

Ha!

TDmvp
11-29-2011, 03:43 PM
Uh oh. I wonder if Merill Hoge will call and scream at Byrne the way he was screaming at Tim Hasselbeck yesterday...

Wish I'd seen that.

ghwk
11-29-2011, 04:08 PM
Wish I'd seen that.

Still running today, you have a chance.

TDmvp
11-29-2011, 04:09 PM
Still running today, you have a chance.

Any idea during what show ? Was it sports center or something else ?


Edit: googled , think it was NFL live so I will be checking that out later ... Ty.

Mogulseeker
11-29-2011, 04:56 PM
I would like a MEGA-HE on my team. It is a game of overgrown men after all.

Armchair Bronco
11-29-2011, 05:13 PM
The current passer rating or QB rating formula is such BS. It only looks at pass attempts, pass completions, TD's and INT's. It's perfectly tailored for the pass-happy league we have today.

The new ("Real") rating also includes rushing attempts, rushing yards, rushing TD's, sacks and yards lost to sacks, and fumbles. It's sooooo much more accurate in terms of assessing a QB's overall performance. Tebow's numbers with the Real rating are off the charts.

His passing numbers in terms of yards and attempts are low, but his TD to attempt ratio is the highest of any QB in the league. His rushing numbers put him in elite company. And his turnover ratio is almost non-existent (another area where he's better than every other QB in the league).

I hope Skip Bayless starts using some of these numbers tomorrow on ESPN's "First Take" show.

peacepipe
11-29-2011, 05:29 PM
Even when the stats are right in front of them, they make excuses for why Tebow sucks or why we'll be lucky to make the playoffs. I've never seen someone hate someone so much on their favorite team or at least be so negative towards that player. Especially when we're winning. I've been pointing out for awhile that a big part of the turnaround is because Tebow doesn't turn the ball over. He's still extremely raw, to think he'll never get better at throwing the ball is flat out ignorant! How many different people have we heard say he works harder than anyone else they have ever been around? I'll support the guy that wins games and might look ugly doing it. If you want to look at pretty stats all day, go play fantasy football or something. Eli Manning threw for 406 yards last night, guess what, he still lost!

what part of these stats am i getting wrong.

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.

Hamrob
11-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Very good article. I think it shows that over a short period of time, Tebow has performed very well.

What I'm stoked about...is, he has plenty of upside. He'll keep getting better. Right now the run the ball 60% of the time. When Tebow becomes better in the passing game...that will probably come closer to 50-50. If he can keep up his penchent for scoring and ball security, while he matures as a passer. I thin we really have something.

Tombstone RJ
11-29-2011, 05:56 PM
what part of these stats am i getting wrong.

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.

Everyone acknowledges this is not Tebow's strong point and it needs to improve. That being said, it seems you focus way too much on this one stat while ignoring all the other things Tebow does well, which is what the article is about.

snowspot66
11-29-2011, 06:33 PM
what part of these stats am i getting wrong.

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.

How about you include the number of times we ran on third down in the last five games.

barryr
11-29-2011, 06:36 PM
what part of these stats am i getting wrong.

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.

You were happier when the team was losing since Tebow was not playing at least.

errand
11-29-2011, 06:40 PM
while I love the fact that the broncos have gone 5-1 in tebow's 6 starts.....i find it laughable that they say he puts the ball in the endzone more often than any other quarterback.... I'm guessin the author has never heard of drew brees aaron rodgers or tom brady

barryr
11-29-2011, 06:47 PM
while I love the fact that the broncos have gone 5-1 in tebow's 6 starts.....i find it laughable that they say he puts the ball in the endzone more often than any other quarterback.... I'm guessin the author has never heard of drew brees aaron rodgers or tom brady

That doesn't matter. Bottom line is he does it more than any Bronco QB in recent years and without numerous turnovers too.

Armchair Bronco
11-29-2011, 07:29 PM
what part of these stats am i getting wrong.

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.

Dude, you're apparently obsessed with a SINGLE freakin' stat: 3rd down completion percentage. Get over it.

You're like a kid obsessed about a new toy: "Daddy, can I have a BB-gun? Daddy, I want a BB-gun. I need a BB-gun. All my friends have BB-guns!"

3rd down completion is one stat among many. The passer rating uses 4 variables. The "Real" QB rating uses 10 variables.

Don't fixate on one set of numbers...unless you're fixating on the final score! And it that category, Tebow is 5-1 this year...and nearly 6-1.

Armchair Bronco
11-29-2011, 07:35 PM
while I love the fact that the broncos have gone 5-1 in tebow's 6 starts.....i find it laughable that they say he puts the ball in the endzone more often than any other quarterback.... I'm guessin the author has never heard of drew brees aaron rodgers or tom brady

His ratio of TD's to touches is higher than theirs. They have more TD's but also more touches. If you throw the ball 73 times each game like Brady or Brees or Rogers, chances are good you'll put up 4 TD's. Tebow, however, throws 2 passes, and one of them is for a 60 yard TD.

73 / 4 TD's = 1 TD every18.25 passes
2 / 1 TD = 1 TD every 2 passes

Dedhed
11-29-2011, 07:40 PM
Uh oh. I wonder if Merill Hoge will call and scream at Byrne the way he was screaming at Tim Hasselbeck yesterday...
I loved watching his face turn red as he tried to spin the success of Tebow into a negative.

It was great TV.

Dedhed
11-29-2011, 07:41 PM
what part of these stats am i getting wrong.

46% comp %
4-16
3-12
2-14
3-13
5-16 3rd down conversion rates the last 5 games.

That they're all insignificant compared to winning.

edog24
11-29-2011, 07:46 PM
while I love the fact that the broncos have gone 5-1 in tebow's 6 starts.....i find it laughable that they say he puts the ball in the endzone more often than any other quarterback.... I'm guessin the author has never heard of drew brees aaron rodgers or tom brady

I have never seen a post by you that isn't bashing Tebow somehow.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-29-2011, 08:03 PM
what does Tebow have to do to get respect
start a dog fighting ring ?
curb stomp someone ?
rape women?
snort coke?
shoot up some roids ?
he is 5-1 so far exceeding my expectations ?
Tebow is basically a rookie qb. every fuark*ing one knows he needs to improve especially 3rd down where we suck for quite sometime now even before Tebow was drafted. now you idiots who for some reason dislike Tebow stop making fools out of yourselves.

Broncos4tw
11-29-2011, 08:28 PM
Basically the haters have one stat to hang their arguments on: completion percentage. In every other way Tebow is doing a damn fine job. And he's only getting better...

It's kind of a very important stat if you are a QB in the NFL.

For example, through the first five games Tebow played, we had ZERO touchdowns through 3 quarters of play in each game. This is an issue. We are averaging a staggering 19 points a game. Against teams that have better success against our D, this is not going to cut it. For example... playoff teams.

So yes, his lack of turnovers, and the # of TDs to his touches on the ball is pretty dang nice. He really does need to get his passing game down. I don't think we have a chance at a SB unless our D hits # say.. 1 or 2 in the NFL, with this version of a college-like offense. It's just not scoring a lot of points.

We need more completions. We need more 3rd down completions.

Wes Mantooth
11-29-2011, 09:00 PM
I like the winning, and love what is happening right now, but you are down right stupid if you can't see that he needs to improve his traditional pro QB play. May not always be his fault, but some of those passes are down right horrid.

Something that caught my eye is I watched my first Jaguars game. Gabbert was equally as off target as Tebow in many occasions. Maybe there is hope that he just needs time to develop.

epicSocialism4tw
11-29-2011, 09:08 PM
I like the winning, and love what is happening right now, but you are down right stupid if you can't see that he needs to improve his traditional pro QB play. May not always be his fault, but some of those passes are down right horrid.

Something that caught my eye is I watched my first Jaguars game. Gabbert was equally as off target as Tebow in many occasions. Maybe there is hope that he just needs time to develop.

Maybe there is hope?

Why would anyone be dense enough to believe that Tebow will not improve? I mean its not like he had an offseason to prepare for this season.

sgbfan
11-29-2011, 09:40 PM
1 pass per game average when we are not behind compared to 116 when we are speaks volumes. Watching Fox allow the defenses performance or lack thereof deictate whether or not Tebow passes or not is the reason we are not lighting up the scoreboard offensively.

116 pass per game when behind?

Agamemnon
11-29-2011, 10:29 PM
It's kind of a very important stat if you are a QB in the NFL.

For example, through the first five games Tebow played, we had ZERO touchdowns through 3 quarters of play in each game. This is an issue. We are averaging a staggering 19 points a game. Against teams that have better success against our D, this is not going to cut it. For example... playoff teams.

So yes, his lack of turnovers, and the # of TDs to his touches on the ball is pretty dang nice. He really does need to get his passing game down. I don't think we have a chance at a SB unless our D hits # say.. 1 or 2 in the NFL, with this version of a college-like offense. It's just not scoring a lot of points.

We need more completions. We need more 3rd down completions.

Not arguing with any of that. My point was that the haters want to only focus on the bad stats when there are quite a few good ones as well. Tebow is a mixed bag right now. That's to be expected with most developing QBs. The thing is that there are enough positives and signs of improvement to be pretty excited. I mean if you factor in the ridiculous number of drops for so few passes, Tebow's accuracy was well within the established standard for an NFL QB. That's something that any honest person watching him in that game should've seen.

Wes Mantooth
11-29-2011, 10:32 PM
Maybe there is hope?

Why would anyone be dense enough to believe that Tebow will not improve? I mean its not like he had an offseason to prepare for this season.

You are right. I would just hope at this level he could quit hitting the dirt with some of those passes.

Agamemnon
11-29-2011, 10:39 PM
You are right. I would just hope at this level he could quit hitting the dirt with some of those passes.

Not too many of those dirt balls in the San Diego game, no?

Wes Mantooth
11-29-2011, 10:42 PM
Not too many of those dirt balls in the San Diego game, no?

Again, I am ashamed of my opinion. Much better. Just one I think.

I'm coming around.

epicSocialism4tw
11-29-2011, 11:19 PM
You are right. I would just hope at this level he could quit hitting the dirt with some of those passes.

Every QB makes ugly throws. Heck, half of Favres throws were ugly. John Elway threw his share of "dirtballs".

Its not fair to assign the negative attributes of every QB to Tebow alone. Doesn't make much sense.

HighCountryBronco
11-30-2011, 12:39 AM
Peace Pipe eh? More like a crack pipe~!![/QUOTE]

Holy shiat! LMFAO!Ha!Ha!Ha!

Rabb
11-30-2011, 05:08 AM
Holy shiat! LMFAO!Ha!Ha!Ha!

and now it's time forrrrr, guess that 2nd/3rd/4th accouuuuunnnnnt!

Broncbow
11-30-2011, 06:37 AM
116 pass per game when behind?


Situational stats are broken down here (http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/situationalstats).

It's kind of a very important stat if you are a QB in the NFL.

For example, through the first five games Tebow played, we had ZERO touchdowns through 3 quarters of play in each game. This is an issue.



Actually Tebow had 3 passing TD's in the first 3 quarters. Compared to 5 in the 4th. Tebow had a rushing TD in the first quarter of the Chiefs game. Now I am not including any other TD's such as the third quarter pick six in the 3rd of the Jets game.



So yes, his lack of turnovers, and the # of TDs to his touches on the ball is pretty dang nice. He really does need to get his passing game down. I don't think we have a chance at a SB unless our D hits # say.. 1 or 2 in the NFL, with this version of a college-like offense. It's just not scoring a lot of points.

We need more completions. We need more 3rd down completions.

I could not agree more with this. We need, need, need.

But expecting this defense to be ranked No.1 or 2 is asking too much. This is not a need, the actual need is to take advantage of all these regular season games to get the passing unit developed and up to speed for the post season when we may be forced by the defense to score 35 point to just win a game.

Despite showing flashes of being great against the non play-off teams we have to come to grips with reality, and that reality is, this offense absolutely does need to score more points. Being ranked 31st in scoring is Elways fault for bringing in the offensive hack that is John Fox.

Despite being acclaimed as this defensive guru, Broncos defense still currently ranks 18th. 22nd in scoring with 23.6 points a game. 49ers who are No.1 in scoring, are allowing only 14.6 point a game, which happens to be more than the 12.75 points the Broncos have allowed on average the last 4 out of 6 games.

But, and this is not just a J Lo butt, we are talking about, more like the singing fat ladies butt; our defense has allowed a 34 point average in the other two games. This is what we ought to be preparing for with the offense during the regular season, during games when our QB is afforded 10 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. What kind of coach given that demonstrable opportunity only allows his QB 3 passing attemots in three drives of OT? As a matter of fact tebow has only had 3 passing attempts in both of his OT occaisons.

This of course brings me right back full circle to the point I have been redundantly hammering away at. In OT you are not playing from behind, this is why you have Fox allowing Tebow to have less than one pass per drive in OT. This is unheard of. You can't make this **** up.

The conspiracy by Elway and Fox to come out shinning regarding Tebow not being ready to be the Broncos QB is exposed as reality, when you break down their endeavor to keep Tebow from developing his passing game when the opportune occaisons present themselves.

These two hacks have gone to great strides to insure just the exact opposite, there is no bigger pproof of this in a game than seeing Tebow thrown into the teeth of the Lions 6th ranked passing defense with 45 passing passing plays during his home debut on his second start, after only being allowed 8 attempts in the first three-quarters of the Dolphins game, despite the Dolphins having had one of the worst passing defenses in the league.

8 passing attempts during the Chiefs game, with 63% of the passes being deep high risk passes? Fox and Elway lack any dichotomy whatsoever when it comes to giving Tebow his fair share of passing attempts at opportune moments in the game, rather than at the most inopportune moments of a game.

No where more is this desparity more evident than when watching Fox allow the defenses performance or lack thereof rather, to dictate whether or not Tebow passes the ball. 1 pass per game average when we are not behind compared to 116 when we are speaks volumes.

Fox and Elway being hell bent on hijacking Tebows development as a QB with their attempt to further develope his rushing attack in order that Tebow emerges more as a FB than a QB is BS.

The two johns are like terrorists, they have already cost us a 1-4 start, and to follow that up by refusing to developme Tebow's passing game with this young passing unit is about as treasonous as you can get.

There is a reason the two have been on an apology tour the past two weeks, while on a damage control campaign for the ostracizing crap they have been hammering the media with in order to drive a wedge of doubt in the fan base as well as the locker room. Elway and John Fox are carcinogen's. To hinder his development is one thing, but then have the nerve to make fun of it, to laugh about it, dismiss his pivitol role in the teams winning success, how diabolical can you get?

This ultra-conservative scheme, which is designed to do nothing more than cut off Tebows development in the passing game, has got to come to a screeching halt and how. What has being the No.1 rushing defense cost us any way?

Being ranked 22nd in rushing TD's?
31st in offensive scoring?
31st ranked passing defense behind the Jags?
Dead last in passing attempts per game.

Offense with Tebow at the helm has averaged just 15.6 points a game outside of the Raiders game. Fox and Elway have got to take the breaks off of the scoring offense, nd not wait till the defense forces the issue, if we are going to have this offense ready for the offseason.

I don't think we will ever get as good of an opportunity to develope the passing game as we had in San Diego, it was one failed opportunity after another, while putting Tebow in one worst possible passing situation after another in that game. I highlited this mind blowing reality here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101630).

However the Viking passing defense ought to afford Tebow a decent opportunity to develope for a post season run in the playoff tournament. Vikings posses the 29th ranked passing defense, and that defense is slipping even further to the bottom and how with all the injury issues plaguing the Vikings.

Vikings 30th ranked passing offense, Rookie Christian Ponder has 6 TD's and 6 INT's. He is 1-4 this season, and with the uncertainty of Adrian Peterson playing with a high ankle sprain, it could be tempting for Elway and Fox to yet again make another glorious defensive showing, while putting the lights out on Tebows passing game.

Thing is Vikings posses the 9th ranked rushing defense in the league, add to that they have the 3rd ranked sacking unit in the league. That defensive line is a force to be reckoned with. Games are won and lost in the trenches, and the Vikings trenches both on the offensive as well as defensive has been keeping the team in 8 of the last 12 games to a TD or less differential in points on average.

Less than a TD differential with teams such as the Packers, Raiders, Lions, Chiefs. This is a dangerous team, not one you want to play down to, or play not to win against, especially with the Devin Hester factor, whom we will be punting too all too often if we allow drive after drive to be killed with the run run pass ultr-conservatively predictable run run pass style of play that Fox has grown all to accustomed too.

Thing is the Vikings are the worst team in th league when it comes to passing TD's. We have got to try and take advantage of that. Especially considering how our rushing offense is one of the worst scoring units in he league.

The No.1 key to victory this game is allowing Tebow to pass it on first downs and more often initially during the game prior to us falling behind. This will allow us to sidestep the predictability that has our completion percentages and 3rd down conversions from making our offense look so pedestrian.

TailgateNut
11-30-2011, 07:28 AM
Everyone acknowledges this is not Tebow's strong point and it needs to improve. That being said, it seems you focus way too much on this one stat while ignoring all the other things Tebow does well, which is what the article is about.


He does hand off the ball really well. Sometimes a bit awkward.....but nobody is perfect......right?

TailgateNut
11-30-2011, 07:29 AM
That they're all insignificant compared to winning.


Weren't you the "points matter" guy, or was that OABB?

Hmmmmm?!?

lolcopter
11-30-2011, 07:34 AM
He does hand off the ball really well. Sometimes a bit awkward.....but nobody is perfect......right?

Can't take snaps from under center ldo

maher_tyler
11-30-2011, 07:35 AM
Situational stats are broken down here (http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/situationalstats).





Actually Tebow had 3 passing TD's in the first 3 quarters. Compared to 5 in the 4th. Tebow had a rushing TD in the first quarter of the Chiefs game. Now I am not including any other TD's such as the third quarter pick six in the 3rd of the Jets game.





I could not agree more with this. We need, need, need.

But expecting this defense to be ranked No.1 or 2 is asking too much. This is not a need, the actual need is to take advantage of all these regular season games to get the passing unit developed and up to speed for the post season when we may be forced by the defense to score 35 point to just win a game.

Despite showing flashes of being great against the non play-off teams we have to come to grips with reality, and that reality is, this offense absolutely does need to score more points. Being ranked 31st in scoring is Elways fault for bringing in the offensive hack that is John Fox.

Despite being acclaimed as this defensive guru, Broncos defense still currently ranks 18th. 22nd in scoring with 23.6 points a game. 49ers who are No.1 in scoring, are allowing only 14.6 point a game, which happens to be more than the 12.75 points the Broncos have allowed on average the last 4 out of 6 games.

But, and this is not just a J Lo butt, we are talking about, more like the singing fat ladies butt; our defense has allowed a 34 point average in the other two games. This is what we ought to be preparing for with the offense during the regular season, during games when our QB is afforded 10 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. What kind of coach given that demonstrable opportunity only allows his QB 3 passing attemots in three drives of OT? As a matter of fact tebow has only had 3 passing attempts in both of his OT occaisons.

This of course brings me right back full circle to the point I have been redundantly hammering away at. In OT you are not playing from behind, this is why you have Fox allowing Tebow to have less than one pass per drive in OT. This is unheard of. You can't make this **** up.

The conspiracy by Elway and Fox to come out shinning regarding Tebow not being ready to be the Broncos QB is exposed as reality, when you break down their endeavor to keep Tebow from developing his passing game when the opportune occaisons present themselves.

These two hacks have gone to great strides to insure just the exact opposite, there is no bigger pproof of this in a game than seeing Tebow thrown into the teeth of the Lions 6th ranked passing defense with 45 passing passing plays during his home debut on his second start, after only being allowed 8 attempts in the first three-quarters of the Dolphins game, despite the Dolphins having had one of the worst passing defenses in the league.

8 passing attempts during the Chiefs game, with 63% of the passes being deep high risk passes? Fox and Elway lack any dichotomy whatsoever when it comes to giving Tebow his fair share of passing attempts at opportune moments in the game, rather than at the most inopportune moments of a game.

No where more is this desparity more evident than when watching Fox allow the defenses performance or lack thereof rather, to dictate whether or not Tebow passes the ball. 1 pass per game average when we are not behind compared to 116 when we are speaks volumes.

Fox and Elway being hell bent on hijacking Tebows development as a QB with their attempt to further develope his rushing attack in order that Tebow emerges more as a FB than a QB is BS.

The two johns are like terrorists, they have already cost us a 1-4 start, and to follow that up by refusing to developme Tebow's passing game with this young passing unit is about as treasonous as you can get.

There is a reason the two have been on an apology tour the past two weeks, while on a damage control campaign for the ostracizing crap they have been hammering the media with in order to drive a wedge of doubt in the fan base as well as the locker room. Elway and John Fox are carcinogen's. To hinder his development is one thing, but then have the nerve to make fun of it, to laugh about it, dismiss his pivitol role in the teams winning success, how diabolical can you get?

This ultra-conservative scheme, which is designed to do nothing more than cut off Tebows development in the passing game, has got to come to a screeching halt and how. What has being the No.1 rushing defense cost us any way?

Being ranked 22nd in rushing TD's?
31st in offensive scoring?
31st ranked passing defense behind the Jags?
Dead last in passing attempts per game.

Offense with Tebow at the helm has averaged just 15.6 points a game outside of the Raiders game. Fox and Elway have got to take the breaks off of the scoring offense, nd not wait till the defense forces the issue, if we are going to have this offense ready for the offseason.

I don't think we will ever get as good of an opportunity to develope the passing game as we had in San Diego, it was one failed opportunity after another, while putting Tebow in one worst possible passing situation after another in that game. I highlited this mind blowing reality here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101630).

However the Viking passing defense ought to afford Tebow a decent opportunity to develope for a post season run in the playoff tournament. Vikings posses the 29th ranked passing defense, and that defense is slipping even further to the bottom and how with all the injury issues plaguing the Vikings.

Vikings 30th ranked passing offense, Rookie Christian Ponder has 6 TD's and 6 INT's. He is 1-4 this season, and with the uncertainty of Adrian Peterson playing with a high ankle sprain, it could be tempting for Elway and Fox to yet again make another glorious defensive showing, while putting the lights out on Tebows passing game.

Thing is Vikings posses the 9th ranked rushing defense in the league, add to that they have the 3rd ranked sacking unit in the league. That defensive line is a force to be reckoned with. Games are won and lost in the trenches, and the Vikings trenches both on the offensive as well as defensive has been keeping the team in 8 of the last 12 games to a TD or less differential in points on average.

Less than a TD differential with teams such as the Packers, Raiders, Lions, Chiefs. This is a dangerous team, not one you want to play down to, or play not to win against, especially with the Devin Hester factor, whom we will be punting too all too often if we allow drive after drive to be killed with the run run pass ultr-conservatively predictable run run pass style of play that Fox has grown all to accustomed too.

Thing is the Vikings are the worst team in th league when it comes to passing TD's. We have got to try and take advantage of that. Especially considering how our rushing offense is one of the worst scoring units in he league.

The No.1 key to victory this game is allowing Tebow to pass it on first downs and more often initially during the game prior to us falling behind. This will allow us to sidestep the predictability that has our completion percentages and 3rd down conversions from making our offense look so pedestrian.

Right now what they are doing on offense is working. We've won 4 in a row using this offense. I do wish they would give Tebow more oppurtunities to throw on 1st down etc. You can be conservative but at least keep the D guessing. Why they aren't throw deep to DT is anyones guess. I'd like to see him get some more oppurtunities.

jhns
11-30-2011, 07:36 AM
Weren't you the "points matter" guy, or was that OABB?

Hmmmmm?!?

Good thing Tebows offense is scoring more than Ortons, in Tebows first season starting. Were you trying to make an argument against Tebow?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3396304&postcount=88

And that is with less drives, as this offense shortens games.

You haters sure love making yourselves look like idiots.

BroncoBeavis
11-30-2011, 08:09 AM
I looked it up last week when Elway was bitching about 3rd down conversions after the Jets game. I looked at the other games that week. The best one is the beatdown the Pats put on the Chiefs 34-3.

One team was 6-14 on third down. The other was 4-13. Guess which was which.

AlphaSeirra
11-30-2011, 10:44 AM
Funky Internet, double post,,, deleted. :welcome:

AlphaSeirra
11-30-2011, 10:45 AM
With all of those fantastic NFL Pro Bowlers (like Lloyd) on the Bronco Offense (opps),
Tebow should be lighting it up like A.Rogers throwing the ball.....
Instead of just being #2 in the NFL in Touchdown - Interception Ratio behind ONLY A.Rogers....
The Complete List of 2011 Bronco Pro Bowlers:
1.
2.
3.
4.
Nobody home (Lloyd)....
And what I really love is those constantly whine about the so-called Tebowites, but then they worship at Saint John's alter whle they diss on their current Bronco QB. (seems fair) ;)
The most outrageous thing is those people wanting to compare a 9 start newbee to Elway in his 15th NFL season, instead of in Johns first 9 starts.
Same for comparing Tebow to any other veteran NFL QB.
I'm just fine with the comparisons, but do it start to start, oranges to oranges, not to multi-year apples.
Anyone who has watched the last 6 games KNOWS that the Bronco D feeds off Tebow's play.
That's not coming from a Tebowite, it's coming from the defensive players post game comments.
A lack of offensive T-O's is a defenses best friend, something that Tebow has ALWAYS excelled at.
====================
Kid A -- "I will say that the Career Touch-to-TD ratio (that puts him above the greats of all time) is hugely manipulated by his being used exclusively in the red zone for most of last season."
Sorry, but that simply NOT CORRECT at all, here are the actual stats:
A total of just 13 plays before becoming the cold, end of season, no 1st team practice time starter.
That's only 10.4 % of Tim's total snaps in 2010.
That's a pretty small 'skew' it seems to me.
Bit Time Passing - 1 of 1, 100%, 3 yds, 1 TD to ZERO Ints.
Starter Passing -- 40 of 81, 49.4% for 651 yds, 16.3 yds/comp, 4 TD's, 3 Ints.
Rushing - 12 for 28 yds, 2.3 ypc, 3 TD's to ZERO LPF's
Rushing - 31 for 199 yds, 6.4 ypc, 6 TD's to ZERO LPF's
Bit Time total of 13 snaps in 5 games, 4 TD's to ZERO T-O's, 31 yds, 2.4 yds/play.
Starter total of 112 snaps in 3 games, 10 TD's to 3 T-O's, for 850 yds, 7.6 yds/play.
==============
To improve Tebow's 3rd down & Comp % numbers, they need to:
1) Have an OL that can form and maintain a pocket for Tim to throw out of.
2) Have receivers (WR/TE/RB) that can:
~ get off the bump,
~ run an accurate route and get open,
~ and then catch the damn ball.
Tim can already throw an accurate ball and the passing numbers will improve as the ENTIRE TEAM matures.
* ALL NFL QB's throw the occasional wounded duck over-thrown/under-thrown pass!
Also, that TD/Int ratio is a function of low and away passes that ONLY his receiver has a chance to catch.
Those ARE NOT inaccurate throws, but instead VERY ACCURATE throws with skilled placement.
PS
Merrie Hodger-Dodger is the biggest douche on air, and a COMPLETE IDIOT to boot!
I used to get a little annoyed at him, but now I just laugh at this moron while I'm changing the channel.
Notice the ones that constantly harp on Tebow's 3rd down passing or comp %,,,,,
NEVER FREAKIN' MENTION THIS FACT,
The Bronco Brain Trust TRADED AWAY their Top 2 2010 WR's,,,
and the starting 1st rnd draft pick RB is injured out yet again.
But the Hodger is not the only one:
Haters gonna hate,
Fools gonna be fools... ;)

TailgateNut
11-30-2011, 10:52 AM
could you post that just ONE MORE TIME. We didn't get the spam the first time.

TheReverend
11-30-2011, 11:01 AM
He does hand off the ball really well. Sometimes a bit awkward.....but nobody is perfect......right?

...Even in the playoff hunt after what might be a record setting turnaround, you're going to stick with this?

Kid A
11-30-2011, 11:04 AM
I will say that the Career Touch-to-TD ratio (that puts him above the greats of all time) is hugely manipulated by his being used exclusively in the red zone for most of last season



Sorry, but that simply NOT CORRECT at all, here are the actual stats:
A total of just 13 plays before becoming the cold, end of season, no 1st team practice time starter.
That's only 10.4 % of Tim's total snaps in 2010.
That's a pretty small 'skew' it seems to me.
Bit Time Passing - 1 of 1, 100%, 3 yds, 1 TD to ZERO Ints.
Starter Passing -- 40 of 81, 49.4% for 651 yds, 16.3 yds/comp, 4 TD's, 3 Ints.
Rushing - 12 for 28 yds, 2.3 ypc, 3 TD's to ZERO LPF's
Rushing - 31 for 199 yds, 6.4 ypc, 6 TD's to ZERO LPF's
Bit Time total of 13 snaps in 5 games, 4 TD's to ZERO T-O's, 31 yds, 2.4 yds/play.
Starter total of 112 snaps in 3 games, 10 TD's to 3 T-O's, for 850 yds, 7.6 yds/play.

Wow, not sure how I spotted my name in all that, but you missed my point. Even just a few TDs that were set up by an Orton offense could sway that stat dramatically. It was actually answered in a review of that same SI article by IAOFM today:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/kerry-byrne-can-cherry-pick-with-the-best-of-them

Career percentage of touches that result in a TD:
Tim Tebow -- 6.0 percent
Aaron Rodgers -- 5.7 percent
Peyton Manning -- 5.5 percent
Tom Brady -- 5.1 percent
Drew Brees -- 4.7 percent
John Elway -- 3.9 percent

Tim Tebow has started nine games in the NFL. This is a small sample. You know what happens with small samples? They are quite easily distorted and manipulated by outliers and luck. But, that's not even what's happening here. As you might potentially recall, Tebow wasn't the starter for most of last season. But if you're new around here, allow me to briefly explain: while Orton was still the starting QB in 2010, Tim would occasionally come in as part of the Broncos' short-yardage and goal-line set, or "Tebow Package." This happened a total of 13 times - one pass (a touchdown) and 12 rushes (including three TDs). That's four touchdowns in 13 short-yardage attempts, and those four scores covered 10 yards combined. Orton & Co. drove the field, and Tebow punched it in from 5, 1, 1, and 3 yards out. Do you think that does anything to help predict whether Tebow will help the Broncos score more touchdowns in the future? Unless they shrink the field to measure about 10 yards, I'm going to say the answer is no.

Now, if we take out these 13 special plays and simply focus on Tebow's actions as the primary QB, we get a TD rate (passing and rushing combined) of 5.1% over his career, and a rate of 4.7% so far this season. These are still very good numbers (better than Elway's), and they still compare favorably with the esteemed group that Byrne cites.

So if you take out the 4 TDs in 13 special redzone plays last year, Tebow still has a very good TD rate. Great to see! But it's silly to defend a stat that inaccurately portrays him as scoring at a greater rate than Rodgers right now.

Broncbow
11-30-2011, 01:50 PM
So if you take out the 4 TDs in 13 special redzone plays last year, Tebow still has a very good TD rate. Great to see! But it's silly to defend a stat that inaccurately portrays him as scoring at a greater rate than Rodgers right now.

You have to admit that it is silly to write off those touches, and yet ignore the limitted touches in this scheme that is inaccurately portraying his scoring ability; he'd have more than 4 more TD's if Fox did not go out of his way to stunt Tebows development.

sgbfan
11-30-2011, 02:13 PM
Situational stats are broken down here (http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/situationalstats).

You can't compare one stat per game to another stat of total passes and expect it to mean anything. You really should put the average number of plays that are passes when both up and down. If Denver was down 90 % of the time, obviously there are more passes.

errand
11-30-2011, 06:31 PM
His ratio of TD's to touches is higher than theirs. They have more TD's but also more touches. If you throw the ball 73 times each game like Brady or Brees or Rogers, chances are good you'll put up 4 TD's. Tebow, however, throws 2 passes, and one of them is for a 60 yard TD.

73 / 4 TD's = 1 TD every18.25 passes
2 / 1 TD = 1 TD every 2 passes

okay first off... tim tebow by your math should have 75 touchdown passes....aaron rodgers has an 8 to 1 touchdown to interception ratio.... which is the same as tebow's.

if you include all pass attempts.. times sacked... and rush attempts... he has touched the ball a total of 438 times. he has turn the ball over 4 times... but has been responsible for 35 touchdowns.

at his rate, he will be responsible for 50 touchdowns.... which is over 3 touchdowns in a game.... and that alone is more points (21) than the denver broncos score per game as a team. we're not even counting rodgers team scoring defensive touchdowns...FG's.... or any special teams touchdowns.

once again I'm glad tim is having success... but if you think he's out performing aaron rodgers... well I'm not saying you are stupid.... would you not have to be?

errand
11-30-2011, 07:10 PM
to further the argument....Rodgers total touches (438) divided by his total TD's (35) = one td per every 12.5 touch. Tebow has 237 total touches and has 11 total touchdowns...or one TD every 21.5 touches

which means that aaron scores a touchdown in about half as many touches as tim tebow... or it takes tim almost twice as many touches to score as many touchdowns

barryr
11-30-2011, 07:23 PM
...Even in the playoff hunt after what might be a record setting turnaround, you're going to stick with this?

Of course, he was happier when the team was losing since Tebow wasn't playing.

bowtown
11-30-2011, 07:25 PM
You have to admit that it is silly to write off those touches, and yet ignore the limitted touches in this scheme that is inaccurately portraying his scoring ability; he'd have more than 4 more TD's if Fox did not go out of his way to stunt Tebows development.

Look out, they are in your closet and out to get you.

errand
11-30-2011, 08:00 PM
I have never seen a post by you that isn't bashing Tebow somehow.

first off I don't have to trash tebow to point out the greatness of brees rodgers and brady.... anyone who's thinking that tebow is outperforming those 3 guys is not only stupid but irretrievably stupid

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-30-2011, 08:11 PM
gb Tebow oh and those other guys who wear orange and blue lol , who are they again?

Inkana7
11-30-2011, 08:21 PM
Good thing Tebows offense is scoring more than Ortons, in Tebows first season starting. Were you trying to make an argument against Tebow?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3396304&postcount=88

And that is with less drives, as this offense shortens games.

You haters sure love making yourselves look like idiots.

Yeah that .7ppg difference is like night and day.

gunns
11-30-2011, 08:28 PM
Urban Meyer knows the value of Tim Tebow, he wouldn't be at Ohio State without him .........

Oh please. I think Tebow knows the value of Meyer. Meyer, through his stints at Bowling Green, Utah, and Florida in 2009 was the winningest coach of all active coaches. He was coach of the year in 2004. He turned Bowling Green into a winning team beating teams they'd never beaten. He led Utah to their first undefeated season since 1930 and made Alex Smith look good enough to be the #1 pick in the draft. Utah was the first non BCS team to get a BCS bowl bid. This was a prime reason he was hired as coach of Florida AND Ohio State.

jhns
11-30-2011, 08:30 PM
Yeah that .7ppg difference is like night and day.

4-14 vs 6-3

1-4 vs 5-1

Oh, right. All the teams problems, other than offense, were fixed when Tebow was put in. This all happened at halftime in the chargers game. Magic.

Momentum
11-30-2011, 11:27 PM
25th ranked offense
31st ranked passing offense

Scoring an average of 15.6 points a game.

Outperforming who exactly?

epicSocialism4tw
11-30-2011, 11:47 PM
25th ranked offense
31st ranked passing offense

Scoring an average of 15.6 points a game.

Outperforming who exactly?

The message was specific about the quarterbacks that he plays against. It would probably be a good idea to read the original post.

jhns
12-01-2011, 06:01 AM
25th ranked offense
31st ranked passing offense

Scoring an average of 15.6 points a game.

Outperforming who exactly?

Ranked first in rushing.

The article is about Tebow, not Orton.

Your point total is completely made up.

To sum this up, you are an idiot.

Broncbow
12-01-2011, 06:26 AM
25th ranked offense
31st ranked passing offense

Scoring an average of 15.6 points a game.

Outperforming who exactly?

This brings up an excellent point. I love this...

How can a QB who gets the ball in the end zone more often than any QB in football today, who protects the football better than any QB in football today, be forced to execute the worst offense in the league? So Elway can make Tebow look like a circus freak? :thumbs:


So Elway and most observers seem to treat Tebow like a circus freak, a statistically deformed football curiosity who wins games in spite of his own feeble ability to pass the football.

You can win one or maybe two games in the NFL with some kind of fluky effort at QB. But the statistical length and breadth of NFL history shows that teams that win consistently do the same things well over and over -- and those same things begin and end with the quarterback position...

In other words, Tebow is no statistical circus freak winning in spite of himself. Tebow's Broncos are winning because he consistently outperforms the opposing quarterback when you take into account all aspects of production: passing, running, sacks, total touchdowns, interceptions and fumbles. In fact, he consistently outperforms them by a wide margin.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/11/29/tim.tebow/index.html#ixzz1f7k02qaq

"Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”

Rohirrim
12-01-2011, 07:00 AM
This brings up an excellent point. I love this...

How can a QB who gets the ball in the end zone more often than any QB in football today, who protects the football better than any QB in football today, be forced to execute the worst offense in the league? So Elway can make Tebow look like a circus freak? :thumbs:




"Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”

Even my mother thinks you're a troll.

SureShot
12-01-2011, 07:31 AM
This brings up an excellent point. I love this...

How can a QB who gets the ball in the end zone more often than any QB in football today, who protects the football better than any QB in football today, be forced to execute the worst offense in the league? So Elway can make Tebow look like a circus freak? :thumbs:




"Any closer to feeling if you have your quarterback on this team?”

Elway flatly answered “no.”

Stop posting

Armchair Bronco
12-01-2011, 07:56 AM
On Mike & Mike this morning, both hosts *finally* admitted that Tebow can't be evaluated using standard benchmarks. "There's no rating for intangibles."

The so-called "QB Rating" is such a misnomer: it's just a passer rating, so it's a one-dimensional look at a QB. Pass attempts, pass completions, total yards, TD's, INT's. The new "Real QB Rating" also looks at rushing attempts, rushing yards, rushing TD's (T2 obviously leads all QB's by wide margins in this category) as well as fumbles lost.

Tebow is one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in the league if you look at more than just raw passing numbers. His turnover ratio is the lowest in the league and his TD to touches ratio is the highest in the league.

Call me "Old School", but I'm smart enough to know when the old yardstick needs to be retired for a more accurate measuring system.

Shotgun Willie
12-01-2011, 08:01 AM
Tebow is one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in the league if you look at more than just raw passing numbers. His turnover ratio is the lowest in the league and his TD to touches ratio is the highest in the league.

Call me "Old School", but I'm smart enough to know when the old yardstick needs to be retired for a more accurate measuring system.

Well, if your "more accurate measuring system" is the one that tells you that Tebow is a top 2 or 3 QB in the league today, then I'd say you need to look up the definition of accurate.

I love the turnaround here as much as anyone, and fully acknowledge that Tebow is a big part of that turnaround, but top 2 or 3? Today? That's insanity.

Armchair Bronco
12-01-2011, 08:11 AM
Well, if your "more accurate measuring system" is the one that tells you that Tebow is a top 2 or 3 QB in the league today, then I'd say you need to look up the definition of accurate.

I love the turnaround here as much as anyone, and fully acknowledge that Tebow is a big part of that turnaround, but top 2 or 3? Today? That's insanity.

The measuring stick is simply this: how accurately does a rating (by whatever system) correlate to wins?

If you compare Tebow's Passer Rating to his win-loss record, there's a complete disconnect. The rating shows that he sucks, yet using the only yardstick that really matters, his record is 6-1 as a starter? Clearly, the Passer Rating breaks down if you throw a non-traditional, unorthodox QB into the mix. In other words, the "Old School" Passer Rating is designed to evaluate pure pocket passers.

The strength of any rating system is its ability to adapt to peripheral data without completely breaking down. The "Real QB Rating" (described here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1192672/1/index.htm) doesn't break down with Tebow's data. It shows T2 winning the numbers game in each of his 6 wins and losing the one game against Detroit.

Armchair Bronco
12-01-2011, 08:16 AM
According to the article above, the Real QB Rating correlates to wins 88% of the time. The traditional Passer Rating is accurate 76% of the time.

That's statistically significant by a mile.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1192672/4/index.htm

AlphaSeirra
12-01-2011, 08:33 AM
So if you take out the 4 TDs in 13 special redzone plays last year, Tebow still has a very good TD rate.
Great to see! But it's silly to defend a stat that inaccurately portrays him as scoring at a greater rate
than Rodgers right now.

So, should we/they even consider this MAJOR difference between those QB comparisons?

That being, that Tebow has been in the NFL for only 1 & 1/2 seasons.
That the Broncos have done very little to help or improve Tim's QB skills.
That Tim only got 3 cold end of season starts on a 3-10 team as a rookie.
That the HBC was fired and a new system installed.
That Tim then went through a Lock-out Offseason.
That Tim, even though he was the higher rated QB in the preseason was benched in favor of a QB that,,,
~ had a lower winning % in 2010, KO = 3-10 .231 to TT 1-3 .333 than Tim had.
~ had a lower PER in the 2011 preseason, KO = 104 to TT 108 + running ability.

But the Brain Trust CLAIMED that Orton gave the TEAM the 'Best Chance to Win' in the 2011 season.
So Tim sat, getting colder for an additional 4 1/2 games to start the (1-4) 2011 season.
With the kind of (lack of) support that Tim has had from the Broncos so far, I'd have expected him to be 0-9,
instead of 6-3 .667 as the starter.

Now, given the NFL history of All of those other guys compared to a 9 start newbee QB,
on a team that has only managed to go 4-14 with a 7-8 year cannon armed NFL Vet at the helm,
go do those numbers again with all of those MAJOR Tebow disadvantages in place.

While the numbers are a bit lower for Tim doing things your way, I'd say that with
'All Things Considered' Tim is looking even better than either set of numbers show.

Their numbers might be a bit inaccurate in their stated case,
BUT
The principle idea behind the numbers is dead on imoho.

AlphaSeirra
12-01-2011, 08:39 AM
25th ranked offense
31st ranked passing offense

Scoring an average of 15.6 points a game.

Outperforming who exactly?

NFL QB TD/Int Ratio

#1 A.Rogers
#2 T.Tebow
Everybody else:

:thumbs:

Armchair Bronco
12-01-2011, 09:39 AM
NFL QB TD/Int Ratio

#1 A.Rogers
#2 T.Tebow
Everybody else:

:thumbs:

Tebow's career interception percentage is 1.78% compared to 1.83% for Rogers.

And according the article I quoted, if you also add fumbles lost into the mix, then Tebow's turnover rate is a miniscule & league-leading 1.4%.

No QB is more careful with the ball than Tebow.

BroncoBen
12-01-2011, 10:07 AM
Ok. It's interesting. I'll be more convinced as soon as he starts attempting to get the ball in the hands of his wrs more often. He doesn't turn it over which is great, but they haven't been getting the ball to Thomas, Royal, and Decker enough one way or the other. He starts doing that and he will get all the respect he deserves.

This is the most insiteful post I've seen on this board in quite awhile.

I agree 100%... it's that simple.

Shotgun Willie
12-01-2011, 10:46 AM
The measuring stick is simply this: how accurately does a rating (by whatever system) correlate to wins?

If you compare Tebow's Passer Rating to his win-loss record, there's a complete disconnect. The rating shows that he sucks, yet using the only yardstick that really matters, his record is 6-1 as a starter?

IMO, it's stupid to only seek out a rating that directly correlates to wins. Unless football turns into a one man sport instead of a 53 man sport, then why should it? Too many other people's contributions went into that win that are outside the control of the QB. This isn't golf, or even basketball. Sorry.

broncocalijohn
12-01-2011, 10:48 AM
You are right. I would just hope at this level he could quit hitting the dirt with some of those passes.

That is my big problem with Tebow. I finally heard Tebow comment about this after the Chargers' game. The more he hears about him NOT throwing INTs, the more times he will throw it low and away. I would rather have him try to hit the numbers or hands and have our receivers get another 10 yards or even a TD. Sure he might throw an INT now and then but I believe his success will be improving in this matter. Also, the coaches need to let him throw on 1st and 2nd down. His passing downs that he actually throws has become obviously predictable for the defense. Fox, mix it up and trust him that he can throw on 1st down. The stats have not lied!

broncocalijohn
12-01-2011, 10:50 AM
anyone who doesn't like winning, regardless of the fashion, is a moran. no reasonable person believes this QB has it all down pat, and NO ONE can predict whether or not he will eventually meet some arbitrary mold set down by douchnozzle analysts and message board heros, so why bother?



You got that write!

bowtown
12-01-2011, 10:51 AM
That is my big problem with Tebow. I finally heard Tebow comment about this after the Chargers' game. The more he hears about him NOT throwing INTs, the more times he will throw it low and away. I would rather have him try to hit the numbers or hands and have our receivers get another 10 yards or even a TD. Sure he might throw an INT now and then but I believe his success will be improving in this matter. Also, the coaches need to let him throw on 1st and 2nd down. His passing downs that he actually throws has become obviously predictable for the defense. Fox, mix it up and trust him that he can throw on 1st down. The stats have not lied!

As long as we keep winning, the coaches don't need to do anything.

broncocalijohn
12-01-2011, 10:59 AM
As long as we keep winning, the coaches don't need to do anything.

You don't think we are hampering our scoring? To say "Do nothing" is why teams that do well to start out but end up faltering down the stretch. If you think other teams don't improve on us and we stay status quo, you will be in for a huge disappointment soon. We are not the Packers that can just outscore you and have a bend but don't break defense. Our defense sets what our offense does. I actually think Tebow has the ability to score on passes. If the defense thinks we are running on first down and we play action pass, even an inexperienced thrower like Tebow can work that advantage. We were down 10-0 against SD and when did we score the 7? When Tebow got to throw about 3 times in that drive. We cannot just assume we will come back in the 4th every game. What works now might not work later. Better to plan it and try it then be too late when we are down by 2 or 3 scores.

Armchair Bronco
12-01-2011, 11:11 AM
IMO, it's stupid to only seek out a rating that directly correlates to wins. Unless football turns into a one man sport instead of a 53 man sport, then why should it? Too many other people's contributions went into that win that are outside the control of the QB. This isn't golf, or even basketball. Sorry.

I agree, but the point of any "rating system" is to give you a yardstick for measuring something without the need to carry around an electron microscope or an atomic scale or a laser-enhanced surveying tool.

The only stat that really matters is the final score, but predicting the final score requires some kind of system or algorithm. I have my own algorithm for predicting a game's final score (so you can bet against the spread), and it only uses 4 data points: first downs by rushing, passing, and penalty. And then a magic multiplier for turnovers. Given its simplicity, its shockingly accurate.

My issue with the current Passer Rating is that it *only* looks at a QB's passing stats, totally ignoring rushing stats and ball protection. Not coincidentally, these are two areas where Tebow is in elite company.

jhns
12-01-2011, 11:14 AM
IMO, it's stupid to only seek out a rating that directly correlates to wins. Unless football turns into a one man sport instead of a 53 man sport, then why should it? Too many other people's contributions went into that win that are outside the control of the QB. This isn't golf, or even basketball. Sorry.

Yeah, the QB doesn't make that big of a difference!

Now just make sure not to look at the SB winners from the past twenty years. Don't look at the Colts. Don't look at what hapoened here. If you ignore the history of this league, that makes perfect sense!

Shotgun Willie
12-01-2011, 11:16 AM
Yeah, the QB doesn't make that big of a difference!

Now just make sure not to look at the SB winners from the past twenty years. Don't look at the Colts. Don't look at what hapoened here. If you ignore the history of this league, that makes perfect sense!

Not surprising that you don't even see that what you just said is not at all what I said. I think you are quoting the wrong post. Mine is solely dealing with the process of assigning a "qb rating" and the role a QBs win/loss record should play in that formula. I simply stated that it should not be tied to it 100%. That's all.

jhns
12-01-2011, 11:19 AM
Not surprising that you don't even see that what you just said is not at all what I said. I think you are quoting the wrong post. Mine is solely dealing with the process of assigning a "qb rating" and the role a QBs win/loss record should play in that formula. I simply stated that it should not be tied to it 100%. That's all.

That depends on which rating though. With the new one, they can show that it coorolates to wins, because the QBs performance is usually the biggest difference in a team winning consistently. Very few teams win with bad QBs. It takes a historically great defense to do so.

Shotgun Willie
12-01-2011, 11:23 AM
That depends on which rating though. With the new one, they can show that it coorolates to wins, because the QBs performance is usually the biggest difference in a team winning consistently. Very few teams win with bad QBs. It takes a historically great defense to do so.

And that's fine. I don't have a problem with some correlation. What I had a problem with was the earlier post that mentioned that even the 88% factor or whatever it was wasn't enough in their opinion. I think that's plenty. There should be some room for rewarding great QBs who have mediocre records solely because of their sucky supporting cast.

Armchair Bronco
12-01-2011, 11:27 AM
And that's fine. I don't have a problem with some correlation. What I had a problem with was the earlier post that mentioned that even the 88% factor or whatever it was wasn't enough in their opinion. I think that's plenty. There should be some room for rewarding great QBs who have mediocre records solely because of their sucky supporting cast.

It would be interesting to see what the numbers are like for "great QB's who have mediocre records." My guess is that a great QB will still have great numbers. If he's great, then he's doing some combination of the following: throwing a lot, running a lot, getting lots of TD's, and taking care of the ball.

But if he's doing this and still losing, it almost certainly means that his defense sucks. So in this case, he'd have a high rating, but the opposing QB would probably have an even higher rating, so the correlation would still be intact.

AlphaSeirra
12-02-2011, 06:52 AM
This is the most insiteful post I've seen on this board in quite awhile.

I agree 100%... it's that simple.

Simple you say? I'll show you simple-tons....

The Brain Trust traded away the Broncos 2010 #2 WR, Gaffney to start the 2011 season.
He's now the Skins leading receiver.

The Brain Trust traded away their ONLY Pro Bowl player, WR Lloyd when they benched Orton
>and then< they cold started Tebow.

For about the 10th time, trade away 2 of Elway's 3 Amigos and injure out Davis and then 'insightfully'
tell he how he would have done as the QB ???

Imporve the OL, get RB's that can stay healthy, get WR's that can both get open on time and
catch the ball when it comes to them,,,,, then tell me about Tebow's Comp% or 3rd Dn completions.

From the very beginning I've been saying that this is a TEAM game.
Tim can LEAD a TEAM,
but he can't hire and train one, that's the job of the Brain Trust. How are they doing in 2011 so far without Tim? 8')

Shotgun Willie
12-02-2011, 06:55 AM
Alpha just compared Knowshon to Terrell Davis. I just threw up in my mouth.

bowtown
12-02-2011, 06:59 AM
Alpha just compared Knowshon to Terrell Davis. I just threw up in my mouth.

He also thinks The Three Amigos played the same time Davis did, and seems to believe any of them were actually more than an average receiver.

I bet he doesn't even know who the Three Amigos were.

AlphaSeirra
12-02-2011, 07:11 AM
Oh please. I think Tebow knows the value of Meyer. Meyer, through his stints at Bowling Green, Utah, and Florida in 2009 was the winningest coach of all active coaches. He was coach of the year in 2004. He turned Bowling Green into a winning team beating teams they'd never beaten. He led Utah to their first undefeated season since 1930 and made Alex Smith look good enough to be the #1 pick in the draft. Utah was the first non BCS team to get a BCS bowl bid. This was a prime reason he was hired as coach of Florida AND Ohio State.

Meyer certainly deserves his credit, but much of the credit goes to the OC & DC plus the rest of the coaching staff.
More so at UF in the SEC than at those other two schools.

The DC Charlie Strong (now the HBC at Louisville after the 09 season) was already at UF when Urban/Mullen arrived.
Meyer and his former OC Dan Mullen planned and designed and implemented the Spread/Option offense.
Mullen is now (after the 08 season) MsSt's HBC and is said to the a leading candidate for the PSU job.
Meyer was the HBC and he coached the Gator's (excellent) Special Teams.
Someone else (QB coach) coached A.Smith & T.Tebow.

2005 BT (before Tebow) UF/Meyer was 9 - 3

06 - 13 - 1, SEC-C & BCS NC's

07 - 9 - 4 (after the 06 season, UF led the Nation with 18 sent on to the NFL,
9 drafted including 2 early departure 1st Rnd Jr's, and 9 more signed as F/A's)

08 - 13 - 1, SEC-C & BCS NC's
(led the Nation with 9 drafted, again with 2 early departure 1st Rnd Jr's, plus 4 more F/A signings)

09 - 13 - 1, SECe-C & Sugar Bowl Winners (only loss to Bama who then won the BCS-NC)
(Meyer with Tebow had a UF record 22 game win streak)

2010 AT (after Tebow) UF/Meyer was 8-5

So Meyer's UF Record was:

With Tebow 06-09 --- 48 - 7 with 2 SEC-C's and 2 BCS-NC's

Without Tebow in 05 & 10 --- 17 - 8 with at least bowl wins over Iowa & PSU.

I'd split the UF/Meyer Record up like this:
Meyer/Staff - 65 - 15 = .813 (overall for his 6 years)
Tebow - 48 - 7 = .873 <---<<<

IMO, Meyers success or failure at tOSU will depend on the staff that he hires and the players
that he recruits, just like usual. He's a great manager.

Meyer is a Top College Coach, no doubt about that at all, 2 Time CoY.

Tebow has been called the BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER of ALL TIME.
Tebow is the 1st Soph to ever be awarded the Heisman Trophy.
Tebow is one of only 2 players to ever win both the Heisman & Campbell Trophies (Academic Heisman).
Tebow is a 2x BCS-NC.
Despite all of his critics, Tebow was drafted in the 1st round.
Despite all of his critics, Tebow is 6-3 as an NFL starter.

Finally, just ask Meyer about Tebow some time,,,, when you've got a few hours to listen.... :thumbsup:

AlphaSeirra
12-02-2011, 07:21 AM
Alpha just compared Knowshon to Terrell Davis. I just threw up in my mouth.

Not at all moron, but I expect that you throw up in your mouth on a regular basis, judging by how you post.

Knowshon was a 1st Rnd draft pick, what was Davis?
Knowshon was the starting RB, am I correct there?
Knowshow is out for the season injured.
Even McGahee has missed some and played dinged up, correct?

Now, either answer the legit question or just STFU and let the adults talk. :wiggle:

AlphaSeirra
12-02-2011, 07:23 AM
He also thinks The Three Amigos played the same time Davis did, and seems to believe any of them were actually more than an average receiver.

I bet he doesn't even know who the Three Amigos were.

Intended as examples of the talent that surrounded them both.

You can both duck and dodge the question
OR
You could grow a set and actually answer the premise.... :angel:

AlphaSeirra
12-02-2011, 08:35 AM
Another Question:

~ Should we compare 9 Cold Start Tebow to the current Best Veteran QB's in the NFL?
~ Should we compare 9 Cold Start Tebow to end of long career SB Elway?
>>> Or should we compare Tebow to the other Top 3 2010 Rookie QB's?
To stupid to need an answer for anyone who is even marginally fair about it!

* I said that Tebow would be drafted in the 1st Round and do well in the NFL.
But I've never claimed that he'd win SB's or go to the NFL HoF,
although I feel he has that chance depending on his TEAM.

>> The GENIUS NFL Talent Evaluators (most but not all) said that Tebow:
~ Would NOT be drafted in the 1st Round.
~ That he should be either a FB, TE, or even a LB in the NFL.
~ That he was at best the 4th best QB in the 2010 Draft behind Bradford, Clausen, & McCoy.

Rnd 1/1 Pick Sam Bradford - Silver Spoon fed and given every advantage.
2010 - 18 TD's, 15 Ints, 1 LPF, PER 76.5
2011 - 6 TD's, 5 Ints, 4 LPF, PER 72.3 & injured out yet again.
24 TD's, 20 Ints, 5 LPF's, mounting losses and injuries.

Rnd 1/25 Tim Tebow 1-2 as the starter with 11 TD's (5P-6R) to 3 Ints, 0 LPF's PER 82.1.
2011 5-1 as the starter, 8 TD's to 1 Int, PER 80.5 (even in the junk Fox/McCoy offense)
Career 6-3, 1,506 yds, 13 TD's to 4 Ints, -- 121 for 682 yds, 5.6 ypc, 9 TD's with only 1 LPF.
Tebow's Career Total Offense 2,187 yds, 6.3 yds/play, 22 TD's, 5 TO's, PER 81.1

Rnd 2/48 Jimmy Clausen 3 TD's to 9 Ints, 2 LPF's, then benched, PER 58.4.
(Several NFL Evaluators projected him to be a Top 10 pick)
2011 Remains a Benched backup as the Panthers had to take Newton in the draft.

Rnd 3/85 2010 - Colt McCoy 2-6 as the starter with 6 TD's to 9 Ints, PER 74.5
2011 19 TD's - 17 Ints, PER 78.1

Evaluators claimed that Tebow would be, not just injured, but KILLED in the NFL.
Reality is that those other three are the ones that get injured, #1 pick (and vastly over-paid imo), Bradford being the worst for it.

And yet the idiots of the world still parrot the media morons and/or the Genius NFL Evaluators.
That, or they are just haters all by themselves.... 8')
>>> While they avoid answers to the valid questions.... :thanku: