PDA

View Full Version : some guy from ESPN said this...


Gort
11-29-2011, 09:50 AM
some guy from ESPN was just on the radio. the guy was asked, "who do you take, Blaine Gabbert or Tim Tebow if you had to choose one to be your QB for the next 3 years?" He said that he'd take Gabbert. he said you need to throw downfield in this league and that Gabbert has the arm to do that. he said Tebow doesn't have the arm to do that. he said that the choice is between taking a guy who might win a championship or a guy who just wins games. his argument is that Gabbert may be the guy to win you a championship. if he's not, he'll flame out and you'll be able to draft the next guy who might win a championship. in contrast, Tebow will just win games and the Broncos will win 8 or 9 games a year depending on their schedule, so you'll never really get a high draft pick with him as your QB.

this is an odd argument. you don't want Tebow because all he does is win games? really? ???

what do you guys think? there's a sort of twisted conventional wisdom in the guy's remarks, but it seems to me he's not seeing the forest through the trees.

Man-Goblin
11-29-2011, 09:53 AM
ridicules

jhns
11-29-2011, 09:54 AM
He has a chance to win 8-9 games in his first year starting. This is happening after he didn't start the first five games. I would say that if you claim 8-9 wins is his ceiling, you are an idiot.

Gabbert is terrible. I said it before the draft and he has done nothing to prove me wrong.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
That's 'tarded on a couple levels. If you prefer Gabbert, fine...but Tim is actually pretty decent at throwing the ball downfield. And the logic about him winning too many games? WTF.

Broncos4me
11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
And you know, he probably doesn't like Charisma Carpenter either because her elbows are too pointy or something. ;D

DenverBroncosJM
11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
I think it was Tom Jackson that said the other night first it was you cant win this way, then it was you cannot continue to win this way, then you cannot win the division this way, now its you cant win in the playoffs this way, next up it will be you cant win the Superbowl this way

Armchair Bronco
11-29-2011, 09:57 AM
These pundits and so-called experts have a bigger reality distortion field than Steve Jobs ever did.

But Jobs was actually able to bend reality whereas these experts are just assclowns.

Kaylore
11-29-2011, 09:57 AM
ridicules

Ahem* redicules.

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 09:58 AM
LOL WAT

tebows deep ball >>>>> gabberts deep ball

jackasses

Gort
11-29-2011, 09:58 AM
the arguments against Tebow are getting more convoluted by the day.

i think alot of these critics are a bit too clever for their own good.

:facepalm

WolfpackGuy
11-29-2011, 09:59 AM
I just don't like the guy on his last name alone...

Gabbert...

Armchair Bronco
11-29-2011, 10:00 AM
I think it was Tom Jackson that said the other night first it was you cant win this way, then it was you cannot continue to win this way, then you cannot win the division this way, now its you cant win in the playoffs this way, next up it will be you cant win the Superbowl this way

Jackson was making fun of all the haters. He also said that if Tebow were to win a Super Bowl, critics would say that he could never repeat the feat. :facepalm

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 10:00 AM
I just don't like the guy on his last name alone...

Gabbert...

Blaine sucks too

Dedhed
11-29-2011, 10:00 AM
I think it was Tom Jackson that said the other night first it was you cant win this way, then it was you cannot continue to win this way, then you cannot win the division this way, now its you cant win in the playoffs this way, next up it will be you cant win the Superbowl this wayYup. Everyone is now pushing the timeline take because they've been proven so utterly wrong at every turn thus far.

They'll push it back far enough so they can slowly morph their original take into something that doesn't make them look completely foolish.

RhymesayersDU
11-29-2011, 10:01 AM
We've lived through this already, and recently. You could apply this logic to having Jake Plummer go 13-3 and still going out and getting Cutler. Jake could win games, but not big ones.

We can argue whether the decision was right or wrong, but there is something to be said about the difference in being good and being great.

Rabb
11-29-2011, 10:02 AM
"some guy from ESPN said..."

there's your first mistake

McDman
11-29-2011, 10:02 AM
You know what's a great idea?

Making a thread everytime Tebow is mentioned on ESPN.

Man-Goblin
11-29-2011, 10:02 AM
Ahem* redicules.

Sorry. I was typing with my phone.

Gort
11-29-2011, 10:03 AM
You know what's a great idea?

Making a thread everytime Tebow is mentioned on ESPN.

if that's all you got from the OP, you should maybe stick to reading comic books

Broncos4me
11-29-2011, 10:05 AM
You know what's a great idea?

Making a thread everytime Tebow is mentioned on ESPN.

No, much better to take a shot everytime Tebow is mentioned on ESPN.

KO5K
11-29-2011, 10:09 AM
I've seen a few Jags fans nickname Gabbert, Plain Garbage, which I thought was pretty funny.

Anyway, when you have that nickname from your own fans, pretty much shows how dumb this guy's opinion is.

Eldorado
11-29-2011, 10:10 AM
Sorry. I was typing with my phone.

Why would you type with your phone? I mean, if you're not going to use your fingers, use a pencil or something.

Kid A
11-29-2011, 10:16 AM
Gabbert was a mediocre college QB. He looks way out of his depth in the NFL - to a degree more than you see with other rookies.

Imagine if the Jags had taken the gamble and drafted Tebow. No guarantee he'd be winning a whole lot there, but he'd probably still be acquitting himself better than there last couple QBs and sure as hell selling out that half empty stadium.

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 10:19 AM
If your team and QB show growth every year and your record goes from terrible to 8-8, 9-7, 12-4, then thats great. But if your young QB turns out to be average, and your 8-8 or 9-7 every year, then you need a new QB the average one is holding you back. Its hard to draft a quality QB when you have 8 or 9 wins a year, I think this is a legit argument. Just ask the Minnesota Vikings.

McDman
11-29-2011, 10:20 AM
The talking heads need to start focusing on how well our defense is doing. Right now they are why we are winning games.

Gort
11-29-2011, 10:23 AM
If your team and QB show growth every year and your record goes from terrible to 8-8, 9-7, 12-4, then thats great. But if your young QB turns out to be average, and your 8-8 or 9-7 every year, then you need a new QB the average one is holding you back. Its hard to draft a quality QB when you have 8 or 9 wins a year, I think this is a legit argument. Just ask the Minnesota Vikings.

except this...

at 8 or 9 wins per season, you're in the playoff mix EVERY year. all you need is a little bit of luck and that can get you to the SB. look what SEA did in 2005 and look what they did last year.

i think the argument the guy makes sounds good, but i don't think it holds up on analysis. that's my point. i think you stick witha guy who wins because that's the only thing that matters.

Pony Boy
11-29-2011, 10:23 AM
"some guy from ESPN said..."

there's your first mistake

Almost as bad as saying some guy from the Mane said .......

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 10:24 AM
I've seen a few Jags fans nickname Gabbert, Plain Garbage, which I thought was pretty funny.

Anyway, when you have that nickname from your own fans, pretty much shows how dumb this guy's opinion is.

Oh that makes lots of sense... Have you ever heard Broncos fans call Tebow such names as Teblow? Or just out right say he sucks? Im not saying this guys opinion is great, but thats your reasoning for calling it dumb?

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 10:24 AM
The talking heads need to start focusing on how well our defense is doing. Right now they are why we are winning games.

Britton Colquit and Matt Prater disagree

lolcopter
11-29-2011, 10:25 AM
Oh that makes lots of sense... Have you ever heard Broncos fans call Tebow such names as Teblow? Or just out right say he sucks? Im not saying this guys opinion is great, but thats your reasoning for calling it dumb?

His opinion is dumb because gabbert blows ass

Gort
11-29-2011, 10:25 AM
BTW, it was on this morning's Cecil Lammey show on 102.3 that i heard the ESPN guy say what he said...

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 10:30 AM
except this...

at 8 or 9 wins per season, you're in the playoff mix EVERY year. all you need is a little bit of luck and that can get you to the SB. look what SEA did in 2005 and look what they did last year.

i think the argument the guy makes sounds good, but i don't think it holds up on analysis. that's my point. i think you stick witha guy who wins because that's the only thing that matters.

Seattle lost a superbowl in 2005. They have never won a super bowl. Last year they made the playoffs, and then cut their QB. They now have an even worse QB than the year before. Never in a million years would i want the Broncos to settle for average. I want them to strive to have the best players, and a first round bye in the playoffs every year. If your goal is average you will never be great.

You don't stick with a guy that wins your 9 games every year, whether he be a head coach or QB.

R8R H8R
11-29-2011, 10:32 AM
Again, these stupid remarks will be said for the rest of the season because the "experts" are so invested in their opinion that Tebow can't play that they have to justify that opinion by raising the bar on what Tim can or cannot do.

With all that being said, you know what coach(other than Fox) would love to have Tebow rather than Gabbert? Jack Del Rio, that's who.

If the jags had been more aggressive in the 2010 draft and drafted Tebow, like McD did, he not only would still have his job, the team would sell out every game and owners like that, and he would be a serious candidate for coach of the year.

But he didn't and that why he is now unemployed.

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 10:34 AM
His opinion is dumb because gabbert blows ass

You think there are a lot of non Broncos/Tebow fans that don't say the same thing about Tebow? Personally I thought Gabbert was better than Tebow, until watching him last sunday. He is pretty bad, which means that the Jags may be in the scenario this guy is talking about of having a QB that can only win 8 or 9 games a year, but in doing so hurts your chances of getting a high level prospect in the draft.

jhns
11-29-2011, 10:37 AM
You think there are a lot of non Broncos/Tebow fans that don't say the same thing about Tebow? Personally I thought Gabbert was better than Tebow, until watching him last sunday. He is pretty bad, which means that the Jags may be in the scenario this guy is talking about of having a QB that can only win 8 or 9 games a year, but in doing so hurts your chances of getting a high level prospect in the draft.

You thought Gabbert was better than Tebow? That says everything we need to know about your opinion.

We get it though. You raider fans love to lose.

KO5K
11-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Oh that makes lots of sense... Have you ever heard Broncos fans call Tebow such names as Teblow? Or just out right say he sucks? Im not saying this guys opinion is great, but thats your reasoning for calling it dumb?

Look dumbass.

Go on the Jaguars MB, the vast majority agree that Plain Garbage sucks ass.

Go on any Broncos forum, the vast majority don't think that Tebow sucks ass.

The idea of taking Gabbert over Tebow is laughable, what makes it even more dumb is that it's a move you support. That right there proves how ridiculously stupid that move would be.

TonyR
11-29-2011, 10:45 AM
Does the "the ESPN guy" have a name? Just curious...

Vine
11-29-2011, 10:46 AM
I just don't like the guy on his last name alone...

Gabbert...

LOL, I thought exactly the same thing.

enjolras
11-29-2011, 10:50 AM
If your team and QB show growth every year and your record goes from terrible to 8-8, 9-7, 12-4, then thats great. But if your young QB turns out to be average, and your 8-8 or 9-7 every year, then you need a new QB the average one is holding you back. Its hard to draft a quality QB when you have 8 or 9 wins a year, I think this is a legit argument. Just ask the Minnesota Vikings.

The Vikings? Ask the 2000-2009 Denver Broncos.

Br0nc0Buster
11-29-2011, 10:55 AM
Gil Brandt did a re-draft for the 2011 draft and had us taking Dalton second overall and Miller falling to like 11

ESPN doesnt really offer any sort of intelligent insight anymore

broncocalijohn
11-29-2011, 10:56 AM
You know what's a great idea?

Making a thread everytime Tebow is mentioned on ESPN.

Im thinking making a thread everytime Tebow is put down. It is original and it screams "WHAAAAAAAAAAH!" all day long.

There was a great idea of the thread that wants you to make the hit list of those nay-sayers. Keep the gastapo list there and then we can keep the front page of the mane open for really important Tebow threads.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=100756
There is soooo much out there we have not discussed about Tebow and it needs to be done. **** the other players, we need more of other Tebow threads and not just this type.

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 10:57 AM
The Vikings? Ask the 2000-2009 Denver Broncos.

Exactly

Gort
11-29-2011, 10:59 AM
BTW, it was Charlie Bernstein who said what i paraphrased in the first post of the thread.

http://www.espnflorida.com/author/cbernstein/

MacGruder
11-29-2011, 11:14 AM
The talking heads need to start focusing on how well our defense is doing. Right now they are why we are winning games.

That's exactly what the critics said about the Florida Gators in Tebow's senior year.. then when Tebow left the Gators stunk.

Tebow's backup at that time was John Brantley.. and he "looked" great in mop-up duty at the end of the games that year.. most the brilliant media thought the Gators would be much better with a conventional QB.. especially one that was supposed to be a far superior NFL prospect in Brantley.. maybe even #1 pick material. Then Florida stunk without Tebow.. on offense and defense.

The run game Tebow generates and the way he makes the runners around him look so great is a huge part of why those Ds look and looked so good.

Also.. if Tebow couldn't pass he and his runners could never run like they do. That is the huge difference between him and the wildcat..

Aftermath
11-29-2011, 11:16 AM
Please stop posting quotes from ESPN. You are a dumbass if you take those morons seriously. They all say the same things and are wrong 90% of the time. Look at Jim Rome for example, has been ripping on Tebow the whole time and after Sunday's game he's practically blowing him.

Gort
11-29-2011, 11:20 AM
Please stop posting quotes from ESPN. You are a dumbass if you take those morons seriously. They all say the same things and are wrong 90% of the time. Look at Jim Rome for example, has been ripping on Tebow the whole time and after Sunday's game he's practically blowing him.

it's from a discussion on the Cecil Lammey show. 102.3FM.

Garcia Bronco
11-29-2011, 11:26 AM
LOL...you do not HAVE to throw down field in this league every play. In fact the only people I see complaining about Tebow throws are former QB's and WR. ****'em.

Tom Jackson said it best:

first it was "he can't play in the league"
Then it was "He can't make the plyoffs like that"
Now it's "He can't win a Super Bowl like that"
What's next? "He can't repeat?"

LOL

Pick Six
11-29-2011, 11:27 AM
The host missed a golden opportunity. He should have compared Tebow with Ponder. It would be Jesus vs. Christian. That would make for a MUCH more entertaining discussion...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Please stop posting quotes from ESPN. You are a dumbass if you take those morons seriously. They all say the same things and are wrong 90% of the time. Look at Jim Rome for example, has been ripping on Tebow the whole time and after Sunday's game he's practically blowing him.

That's Rome's MO. Few years back, he was just tearing Matt Holiday a new one on his show. Next day, Holiday was on and got the Rome Fellatio.

It's almost like these guys are paid to have opinions. SO weird.

Some guy on lightrail told me that Elway is jealous of Tebow. So there's that.

ant1999e
11-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Sorry. I was typing with my phone.

I always mess that word up.

Garcia Bronco
11-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Please stop posting quotes from ESPN. You are a dumbass if you take those morons seriously. They all say the same things and are wrong 90% of the time. Look at Jim Rome for example, has been ripping on Tebow the whole time and after Sunday's game he's practically blowing him.

He has too.

More people like Tebow than Jim Rome. Eventually it would worsen his ever shrinking listeners. Personally, I don't understand why people listen to the guy after Chris Everett beat his ass.

ant1999e
11-29-2011, 11:30 AM
That's Rome's MO. Few years back, he was just tearing Matt Holiday a new one on his show. Next day, Holiday was on and got the Rome Fellatio.

It's almost like these guys are paid to have opinions. SO weird.

Some guy on lightrail told me that Elway is jealous of Tebow. So there's that.

Damn, I thought you were posting over at Chiefs Planet now. Didn't we waive you?:welcome:

TonyR
11-29-2011, 11:31 AM
...after Chris Everett beat his ass.

LOL That would be Jim. Chris was a female tennis player.

Archer81
11-29-2011, 11:31 AM
I dont think Gabbert is terrible. Rookies will not always look good...and considering who used to coach the Jags, I am not surprised he is struggling like he is.

I do find it funny that some of the same people who justify Tebow's struggles (only 9 starts...) are so quick to dismiss other young QB's with a similar number of starts under their belts.

If anything, be consistent.

:Broncos:

Gort
11-29-2011, 11:32 AM
Damn, I thought you were posting over at Chiefs Planet now. Didn't we waive you?:welcome:

he's the Herpes of the OM. once you get it, you're stuck with it forever. if TheElusivePocketSloth was clever, he'd change his username (again!) to Ron Mexico.

McDman
11-29-2011, 11:32 AM
That's exactly what the critics said about the Florida Gators in Tebow's senior year.. then when Tebow left the Gators stunk.

Tebow's backup at that time was John Brantley.. and he "looked" great in mop-up duty at the end of the games that year.. most the brilliant media thought the Gators would be much better with a conventional QB.. especially one that was supposed to be a far superior NFL prospect in Brantley.. maybe even #1 pick material. Then Florida stunk without Tebow.. on offense and defense.

The run game Tebow generates and the way he makes the runners around him look so great is a huge part of why those Ds look and looked so good.

Also.. if Tebow couldn't pass he and his runners could never run like they do. That is the huge difference between him and the wildcat..

Yeah, Tebow is really anchoring that defensive group.

OrangeSe7en
11-29-2011, 11:35 AM
Sorry, but one guy has a nickname of "concrete cyanide" and the other's first name is Blaine. Sorry but Blaine is the name of an oversensitive man who likes having good cries. Rather than Blaine, I'll take the guy whose initials are T&T.

snowspot66
11-29-2011, 11:41 AM
If your team and QB show growth every year and your record goes from terrible to 8-8, 9-7, 12-4, then thats great. But if your young QB turns out to be average, and your 8-8 or 9-7 every year, then you need a new QB the average one is holding you back. Its hard to draft a quality QB when you have 8 or 9 wins a year, I think this is a legit argument. Just ask the Minnesota Vikings.

Since 2000 the QB's taken in the top ten are as follows:

Michael Vick (1) Up and down
David Carr (1) Bust
Joey Harrington (3) Bust
Carson Palmer (1) Up and down
Byron Leftwich (7) Bust
Eli Manning (1) Up and down but has a ring
Phillip Rivers (4) Regular Pro Bowl QB
Alex Smith (1) Late bloomer or still bust? TBD
Vince Young (3) Bust
Matt Leinart (10) Bust
JaMarcus Russel (1) Biggest bust ever?
Matt Ryan (3) Solid but too young to say
Mark Sanchez (5) Don't know yet, but hasn't been pretty lately
Matthew Stafford (1) Often injured, book is still out
Sam Bradford (1) Don't know yet
Cam Newton (1) Don't know yet

That's a hell of a lot of failure compared to success for ten years worth of top ten QB's. One Super Bowl ring among them so far. Obviously the book is still out on the young guys. However, it looks like at best that list might have one or two really great QB's on it. Rivers is one. While Manning has a ring and guys like Ryan and Stafford have shown a lot of promise none of them have stepped up and took their place as a 15 year franchise QB.

By comparison the guys who account for seven of the last ten Super Bowl wins (and two of the losses) were these guys right here.

Rothlisberger (11)
Rodgers (24)
Brees (32)
Brady (199)

Brad Johnson (199) and the Manning Brothers account for the other three.

Top 10 QB's aren't the be all end all of QB's. You're just as likely if not more so to get a good QB in the middle and late first and those are spots any team can trade into without mortgaging the future.

broncocalijohn
11-29-2011, 11:59 AM
Sorry, but one guy has a nickname of "concrete cyanide" and the other's first name is Blaine. Sorry but Blaine is the name of an oversensitive man who likes having good cries. Rather than Blaine, I'll take the guy whose initials are T&T.

Actually, I think Blaine is not a first name but a name of a major appliance.

http://youtu.be/7JKuv1bGbFI

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2011, 12:24 PM
Damn, I thought you were posting over at Chiefs Planet now. Didn't we waive you?:welcome:

Is that really the best you've got?

Pathetic. Considering the source, not a surprise.

Pony Boy
11-29-2011, 12:45 PM
LOL That would be Jim. Chris was a female tennis player.

I forgot how funny this Chris Everett clip was ...............

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HNgqQVHI_8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9HNgqQVHI_8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Paladin
11-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Why would you type with your phone? I mean, if you're not going to use your fingers, use a pencil or something.

ROFL!

:notworthy

Good one!!!!

OEII
11-29-2011, 12:53 PM
some guy from ESPN was just on the radio. the guy was asked, "who do you take, Blaine Gabbert or Tim Tebow if you had to choose one to be your QB for the next 3 years?" this is an odd argument. you don't want Tebow because all he does is win games? really? ???

what do you guys think? there's a sort of twisted conventional wisdom in the guy's remarks, but it seems to me he's not seeing the forest through the trees.

The argument is quite simple really. The pocket passer is the more proven formula in the NFL. Tebow is getting better, but at no time in his football career has he shown that he can win from the pocket. It’s not really Tebow vs. (insert any current QB's name here); it’s about the traditional view of a "franchise" QB. That of someone who possesses the traditional skills of a pocket passer.

Tebow is only 24, and he very good at his style of play; however, do you really think that Tebow will "just win" when he is 28, or 38 (when Elway won his second ring) doing what he does now? One day, one can hope that Tebow develops into a pocket passer and becomes the next Steve Young (but less mobile then even Young) but right now he has very little resume showing that can do it. He has a different style and that style has little history of lasting long in the NFL. Its similar to the Mike Vick argument. Allot of people believe that his style of play, giving him big money and hitching the franchise's “wagon” to him for the long term was/is a big risk because he is very mobile (like Tebow) and has a tough time playing 16 games (he is hurt now). Tebow is a house right now, but wait till he hits 30, or even 3 full seasons of taking hits like he does, his body will inevitably break down.


In today's NFL, with the defensive penalties and special designation of QB's on the field (i.e., roughing the passers called when tapping the QB in the pocket, but no RTP when crushing the QB outside the pocket. Very mobile QBs make little sense to NFL teams. The rules are hand carved by the NFL to promote QBs sitting in the pocket and passing the ball down the field. At this point Tebow doesn't fit that mold and him winning long term is still very much in question because he plays a young mobile QB game that certainly he will not be able to play a few years down the road.

Paladin
11-29-2011, 01:06 PM
I suspect that's why he wears Big Boy pads......

Ask Revis what it looks like when TEBOW is comng at you with lowered pads and a head of steam.

But I do believe the point that he will most likely have a relatively short career, but it could be because of concussions. He wil be able to take only so many shots to the head under the pile before he gets punch drunk.......

BroncoBeavis
11-29-2011, 01:14 PM
Oh that makes lots of sense... Have you ever heard Broncos fans call Tebow such names as Teblow? Or just out right say he sucks? Im not saying this guys opinion is great, but thats your reasoning for calling it dumb?

Yeah, they're the same guys who say things like they'd take Gabbert over Tebow. Ha!

BroncoBeavis
11-29-2011, 01:21 PM
LOL That would be Jim. Chris was a female tennis player.

Damn. I was really visualizing something special until you cleared that up. :)

Rohirrim
11-29-2011, 01:23 PM
The argument is quite simple really. The pocket passer is the more proven formula in the NFL. Tebow is getting better, but at no time in his football career has he shown that he can win from the pocket. It’s not really Tebow vs. (insert any current QB's name here); it’s about the traditional view of a "franchise" QB. That of someone who possesses the traditional skills of a pocket passer.

Tebow is only 24, and he very good at his style of play; however, do you really think that Tebow will "just win" when he is 28, or 38 (when Elway won his second ring) doing what he does now? One day, one can hope that Tebow develops into a pocket passer and becomes the next Steve Young (but less mobile then even Young) but right now he has very little resume showing that can do it. He has a different style and that style has little history of lasting long in the NFL. Its similar to the Mike Vick argument. Allot of people believe that his style of play, giving him big money and hitching the franchise's “wagon” to him for the long term was/is a big risk because he is very mobile (like Tebow) and has a tough time playing 16 games (he is hurt now). Tebow is a house right now, but wait till he hits 30, or even 3 full seasons of taking hits like he does, his body will inevitably break down.


In today's NFL, with the defensive penalties and special designation of QB's on the field (i.e., roughing the passers called when tapping the QB in the pocket, but no RTP when crushing the QB outside the pocket. Very mobile QBs make little sense to NFL teams. The rules are hand carved by the NFL to promote QBs sitting in the pocket and passing the ball down the field. At this point Tebow doesn't fit that mold and him winning long term is still very much in question because he plays a young mobile QB game that certainly he will not be able to play a few years down the road.

Good first post. Welcome.

bowtown
11-29-2011, 01:25 PM
This is horrible. I base most of my life choices on what Some Guy on ESPN says.

BroncoMan4ever
11-29-2011, 01:26 PM
i don't even bother listening to these idiots who get paid to spout off on their dumbass tangents. the vast majority of them are guys who have no idea what they are talking about and are so short sighted that they can't see what is blatantly right in front of their faces.

Tebow's passing is getting better. yes it was a 9-18 passing day, but what you don't see is that after starting 0-4 he was 9-14 the rest of the way, and there were at least 2 drops that were on his receivers.

his decision making and reads need a little work, but what 2nd year player with very little playing experience can that not be said about?

his accuracy is improving game by game. he is leaps and bounds right now better than he was in his 1st start this season.

for me right now over the next couple weeks is where i think we will figure out whether or not the Tebow bashing reporters were right that this offense can't continue over the long run and Tebow will be figured out, or that they were wrong and need to shut the **** up.

the reason i say the next few weeks will tell the story is because of the 6-0 start in 2009. we came out and McDaniels was doing a pretty good job of hiding talent deficiencies on the team so we could start out with that record, only for the league to catch on to what we were doing and then it was figured out and we lost in epic fashion. we just played out 5th game with this offense and 6th overall with Tebow, meaning teams now have enough film on us to thoroughly study what we are doing and what needs to be done to stop it. the next 5 games will tell the story on Tebow.

BroncoBeavis
11-29-2011, 01:30 PM
Top 10 QB's aren't the be all end all of QB's. You're just as likely if not more so to get a good QB in the middle and late first and those are spots any team can trade into without mortgaging the future.

Amen. The toughest part I think is that how good a college QB looks has so much to do with the talent around him. There's so much disparity in college that a dominant team will make their QB look good to some extent.

It's tough to tell sometimes whether that top-10 prospect was really that good, or if their team was really that good. Then reality strikes and they, by definition, go to a piss-poor NFL team, and it becomes a hurdle many of those guys never make it over.

Sure, there are guys in there that deserve to be Top-10 picks. But I think history has shown more of them didn't even deserve to go first round.

Peoples Champ
11-29-2011, 01:41 PM
gabbart is sure on his way to a superbowl,

Im guessing this guy didnt see Tebow's deep ball to Decker against the chiefs. About a 40 yard strike perfectly thrown.

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 01:44 PM
Since 2000 the QB's taken in the top ten are as follows:

Michael Vick (1) Up and down
David Carr (1) Bust
Joey Harrington (3) Bust
Carson Palmer (1) Up and down
Byron Leftwich (7) Bust
Eli Manning (1) Up and down but has a ring
Phillip Rivers (4) Regular Pro Bowl QB
Alex Smith (1) Late bloomer or still bust? TBD
Vince Young (3) Bust
Matt Leinart (10) Bust
JaMarcus Russel (1) Biggest bust ever?
Matt Ryan (3) Solid but too young to say
Mark Sanchez (5) Don't know yet, but hasn't been pretty lately
Matthew Stafford (1) Often injured, book is still out
Sam Bradford (1) Don't know yet
Cam Newton (1) Don't know yet

That's a hell of a lot of failure compared to success for ten years worth of top ten QB's. One Super Bowl ring among them so far. Obviously the book is still out on the young guys. However, it looks like at best that list might have one or two really great QB's on it. Rivers is one. While Manning has a ring and guys like Ryan and Stafford have shown a lot of promise none of them have stepped up and took their place as a 15 year franchise QB.

By comparison the guys who account for seven of the last ten Super Bowl wins (and two of the losses) were these guys right here.

Rothlisberger (11)
Rodgers (24)
Brees (32)
Brady (199)

Brad Johnson (199) and the Manning Brothers account for the other three.

Top 10 QB's aren't the be all end all of QB's. You're just as likely if not more so to get a good QB in the middle and late first and those are spots any team can trade into without mortgaging the future.

This is true, but I think several of those were just horrible front office work. Jamarcus? Really? Vince Young, Bryon Leftwich? Some of the others such as Alex Smith were taken in years when the QB pool was very weak, and teams reached for a QB. It is a crap shoot, but I would much rather have a high pick when drafting a QB. For every Matt Leinert there are a hundred Brody Croyle, Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, Kellen Clemens, and Erik Ainges...

Nwp-Apap
11-29-2011, 01:48 PM
Blaine sucks too

Nice to see some familiar posters from the BCMB joining the mane.

Even though most won't recognize me since my name is backwards :peace:

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 01:55 PM
The argument is quite simple really. The pocket passer is the more proven formula in the NFL. Tebow is getting better, but at no time in his football career has he shown that he can win from the pocket. It’s not really Tebow vs. (insert any current QB's name here); it’s about the traditional view of a "franchise" QB. That of someone who possesses the traditional skills of a pocket passer.

Tebow is only 24, and he very good at his style of play; however, do you really think that Tebow will "just win" when he is 28, or 38 (when Elway won his second ring) doing what he does now? One day, one can hope that Tebow develops into a pocket passer and becomes the next Steve Young (but less mobile then even Young) but right now he has very little resume showing that can do it. He has a different style and that style has little history of lasting long in the NFL. Its similar to the Mike Vick argument. Allot of people believe that his style of play, giving him big money and hitching the franchise's “wagon” to him for the long term was/is a big risk because he is very mobile (like Tebow) and has a tough time playing 16 games (he is hurt now). Tebow is a house right now, but wait till he hits 30, or even 3 full seasons of taking hits like he does, his body will inevitably break down.


In today's NFL, with the defensive penalties and special designation of QB's on the field (i.e., roughing the passers called when tapping the QB in the pocket, but no RTP when crushing the QB outside the pocket. Very mobile QBs make little sense to NFL teams. The rules are hand carved by the NFL to promote QBs sitting in the pocket and passing the ball down the field. At this point Tebow doesn't fit that mold and him winning long term is still very much in question because he plays a young mobile QB game that certainly he will not be able to play a few years down the road.

Agreed

BroncoBeavis
11-29-2011, 01:56 PM
This is true, but I think several of those were just horrible front office work. Jamarcus? Really? Vince Young, Bryon Leftwich? Some of the others such as Alex Smith were taken in years when the QB pool was very weak, and teams reached for a QB. It is a crap shoot, but I would much rather have a high pick when drafting a QB. For every Matt Leinert there are a hundred Brody Croyle, Brian Brohm, Matt Flynn, Kellen Clemens, and Erik Ainges...

That's easy to say with hindsight. But back then the whole world of 'analysts' expected Jamarcus and Young to go top 10. None of these hacks were predicting a bust for either one. All part of the herd-think I was talking about on another thread.

BroncoBeavis
11-29-2011, 02:03 PM
I remember reading a mock draft back from '07 I think by Michael "Tebowhater" Silver. He did this thing for a few years where he'd draft the top 32 players who were currently PLAYING in the NFL.

If you looked at the top 5 QB's he took in this fantasy draft, he put Jamarcus and Young in the top 5. That wasn't of incoming rookies. That was of all QB's period. He skipped over names like Roethlisberger and Brees to pick up Young and Russell. Now he's falling all over himself to tell us Tebow doesn't have a chance.

And this is the jackass that arguable sparked the whole Tebow-hate fiasco we ran into this summer.

Found the link
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_silver/04/11/ultimate.mock.part1/index.html

So that makes Silver's top 5 QB's in 2007... Carson Palmer, Manning, Brady, then Vince Young and Jamarcus. If he had the choice of any NFL QB's playing in 2007.

How do these clowns get paid for such fail?

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 02:06 PM
That's easy to say with hindsight. But back then the whole world of 'analysts' expected Jamarcus and Young to go top 10. None of these hacks were predicting a bust for either one. All part of the herd-think I was talking about on another thread.

Yes it is, and yes I know every idiot on ESPN was wagging their tongues over Russel and Young, but I would love to know more about what actual coaches thought about Russel and Young (I believe Titans OC left when they drafted Young cause he didnt wanna deal with him). I for one could not believe they were drafted so high. Cutler to me looked like ten times the prospect that either of those two did. I was pumped when Shanny moved up to take him. Russel in particular went from never heard of him to number 1 pick (by the Raiders keep in mind same team that drafted the fastest wide out in the 1st round for years)...

Again i think a lot of this falls back on Owners or whoever having a gut feeling about a guy and taking him way higher than he should be taken.. But i get that its easy to say that in hindsight

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 02:09 PM
I remember reading a mock draft back from '07 I think by Michael "Tebowhater" Silver. He did this thing for a few years where he'd draft the top 32 players who were currently PLAYING in the NFL.

If you looked at the top 5 QB's he took in this fantasy draft, he put Jamarcus and Young in the top 5. That wasn't of incoming rookies. That was of all QB's period. He skipped over names like Roethlisberger and Brees to pick up Young and Russell. Now he's falling all over himself to tell us Tebow doesn't have a chance.

And this is the jackass that arguable sparked the whole Tebow-hate fiasco we ran into this summer.

Haha Love Tebow or hate him we should all agree that Silver is a POS.

KO5K
11-29-2011, 02:24 PM
Agreed

Not a surprise seeing as you probably wrote it.

ant1999e
11-29-2011, 02:28 PM
Is that really the best you've got?

Pathetic. Considering the source, not a surprise.

You mad bro?:vermeil:

cutthemdown
11-29-2011, 02:34 PM
Tebows arm strength seems good enough to make all the throws. His footwork needs attention. But his balls looked better last game.

It's going to be funny when his WR make all the catches and he hits a couple of those 1-1 jump balls we can get downfield almost any first down we want.

Teams are so close to the LOS big plays are there to be had in both the run game and passing game.

This offense is awesome IMO. The only flaw is there may only be one QB tough enough to run it. So a bkup would be tough.

Still though the read option makes defense account for a QB, draws in the secondary and opens up big plays.

no reason is has to be a HS offense. There is some potential here to make noise.

Popps
11-29-2011, 02:34 PM
It's way too early to make definitive judgments on Gabbert v. Tebow. Certainly looks like Tebow is a clear-cut winner right now, but a lot of guys need a couple of years, and Gabbert did come into the league with good credentials as a passer.

I'll just say I'm glad we've got who we've got, right now.

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 03:09 PM
Not a surprise seeing as you probably wrote it.

Yea cause I'm so worried about what people think of my opinion I need to hide behind a second account, so Tebow molesters like yourself don't harass me. :thumbsup: Oh wait that smilie was suppose to be holding up its middle finger... oh well...

Slightly Soiled
11-29-2011, 03:35 PM
The talking heads need to start focusing on how well our defense is doing. Right now they are why we are winning games.

Yeah they are but, a guy on ESPN said your better off having a terrible defense so you can draft higher defense.

DrFate
11-29-2011, 03:48 PM
The truth of the matter is this. Each/every talking head said, without question

Tebow can't play in the NFL.

That proved untrue. So rather than say 'I was wrong', they went to

Tebow can't win in the NFL

They cackled with glee after the Detroit game. Once Tebow had a winning record, they changed their tune to

Tebow can't win consistently in the NFL

So now that he's gone 5-1 and in the playoff hunt - a few people (Jackson, Ditka, a few internet writers) are giving him some props, the talking heads have moved to

Tebow can't win a Super Bowl

So in six weeks they have moved from 'he can't play' to 'he can't win a Super Bowl'. Of course the bulk of the QBs in the league won't ever win a ring. But if he WERE to win it all, I guess they'd move to

Tebow can't win multiple Super Bowls

These people have zero objectivity and feel that their 'cred' is riding on Tebow's ultimate failure. They fail to admit their initial premise was flat wrong.

Archer81
11-29-2011, 03:51 PM
On NFLN they had Heath Evans saying the option offense will be shut down by disciplined defenses.

Its always something. I guess we'll see one way or another. The "best" defense we play for the remainder of the regular season is Chicago's.

:Broncos:

ol#7
11-29-2011, 03:58 PM
Why go to ESPN for the opinion of some 'random guy' when there are enough random guys (and gals) spouting off just as intelligent or lack thereof opinions right here? ESPN has become unreadable/watchable/listenable.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-29-2011, 04:49 PM
You mad bro?:vermeil:

Well let's see... The only posts you've made on Bronco threads, it seems, are following me around and attempting insults. Failing, but trying nonetheless.

So... U mad? Why U mad tho?

Is it because I'm living all up in your head? I bet that's what it is. You should probably let it go.

Why can't you just be happy the Broncos are winning, like I am?

It's okay. You're a silly little lad who would rather get into a pissing contest than enjoy wins. That's your prerogative.

ant1999e
11-29-2011, 04:58 PM
Well let's see... The only posts you've made on Bronco threads, it seems, are following me around and attempting insults. Failing, but trying nonetheless.

So... U mad? Why U mad tho?

Is it because I'm living all up in your head? I bet that's what it is. You should probably let it go.

Why can't you just be happy the Broncos are winning, like I am?

It's okay. You're a silly little lad who would rather get into a pissing contest than enjoy wins. That's your prerogative.

Yeah, you're mad. Ha!

Agamemnon
11-29-2011, 05:01 PM
Blaine Gabbert over Tebow? Hilarious!

SonOfLe-loLang
11-29-2011, 05:04 PM
On NFLN they had Heath Evans saying the option offense will be shut down by disciplined defenses.

Its always something. I guess we'll see one way or another. The "best" defense we play for the remainder of the regular season is Chicago's.

:Broncos:

This makes no f'ing sense.

1) Football is more muscle memory than cerebral. When you dont play the option every week, you're not used to reacting to it.

2) The zone read option creates natural doubt. Because there's an option that features two different runners who are a threat in opposite directions, it requires backside defenders to "stay home" to eliminate the Tebow threat. Because of this, it creates a general mismatch on the front side. The only way you can completely shut it down is to blitz the **** out of it, but, of course, that leaves you incredibly vulnerable to the pass.

The reason more teams dont do it is 1) its a relatively new offense 2) most teams dont want to put their multi million dollar investments in harms way (like we do with Tim) and 3) most guys arent as good at reading the defenders as Tim.

Its a legit play. We arent running the f'n veer.

Broncos4me
11-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Well let's see... The only posts you've made on Bronco threads, it seems, are following me around and attempting insults. Failing, but trying nonetheless.

So... U mad? Why U mad tho?

Is it because I'm living all up in your head? I bet that's what it is. You should probably let it go.

Why can't you just be happy the Broncos are winning, like I am?

It's okay. You're a silly little lad who would rather get into a pissing contest than enjoy wins. That's your prerogative.

Novak? ;D

Archer81
11-29-2011, 05:45 PM
This makes no f'ing sense.

1) Football is more muscle memory than cerebral. When you dont play the option every week, you're not used to reacting to it.

2) The zone read option creates natural doubt. Because there's an option that features two different runners who are a threat in opposite directions, it requires backside defenders to "stay home" to eliminate the Tebow threat. Because of this, it creates a general mismatch on the front side. The only way you can completely shut it down is to blitz the **** out of it, but, of course, that leaves you incredibly vulnerable to the pass.

The reason more teams dont do it is 1) its a relatively new offense 2) most teams dont want to put their multi million dollar investments in harms way (like we do with Tim) and 3) most guys arent as good at reading the defenders as Tim.

Its a legit play. We arent running the f'n veer.


As I said, its always going to be something until Tebow wins the way the powers that be find acceptable. I do think when the passing game emerges, our offense is going to be fairly ****ing awesome. No other QB (with the exception of Cam Newton) can do what Tebow could do when the passing game rounds out.

So in short, F the talking heads. They get paid to jabber away like lonely spinsters at a sewing circle.

:Broncos:

Mogulseeker
11-29-2011, 05:53 PM
On NFLN they had Heath Evans saying the option offense will be shut down by disciplined defenses.

Its always something. I guess we'll see one way or another. The "best" defense we play for the remainder of the regular season is Chicago's.

:Broncos:

Maybe if you're running the option every play. But having three potential running lanes creates more of a possibility for down field runs, and it opens up the pass.

I think the option could figure in an NFL offense.

Archer81
11-29-2011, 05:57 PM
Maybe if you're running the option every play. But having three potential running lanes creates more of a possibility for down field runs, and it opens up the pass.

I think the option could figure in an NFL offense.


I think as part of a running game it can be particularly effective if you have the right personnel for it. Which Denver happens to have. Its a little frustrating to have an offense labeled the "option" offense. It really isnt, but whatever floats their boat.

:Broncos:

Turd_Ferguson
11-29-2011, 06:06 PM
Maybe if you're running the option every play. But having three potential running lanes creates more of a possibility for down field runs, and it opens up the pass.

I think the option could figure in an NFL offense.

Despite my doubts i think it already has... In a way what Denver is doing today isn't so different from the boot legs they used to run all the time, its just that Tebow is running off the fake instead of faking to set up a pass. I assume at some point they will start trying to pass out of this offense, and to be honest after how Tebow looked in the limited passing in the San Diego game, I'm pretty interested to see it.

maher_tyler
11-29-2011, 06:10 PM
some guy from ESPN was just on the radio. the guy was asked, "who do you take, Blaine Gabbert or Tim Tebow if you had to choose one to be your QB for the next 3 years?" He said that he'd take Gabbert. he said you need to throw downfield in this league and that Gabbert has the arm to do that. he said Tebow doesn't have the arm to do that. he said that the choice is between taking a guy who might win a championship or a guy who just wins games. his argument is that Gabbert may be the guy to win you a championship. if he's not, he'll flame out and you'll be able to draft the next guy who might win a championship. in contrast, Tebow will just win games and the Broncos will win 8 or 9 games a year depending on their schedule, so you'll never really get a high draft pick with him as your QB.

this is an odd argument. you don't want Tebow because all he does is win games? really? ???

what do you guys think? there's a sort of twisted conventional wisdom in the guy's remarks, but it seems to me he's not seeing the forest through the trees.

Weird...seems to me Tebow, when throwing, is best when it's down field! I don't think this guy has watched a single Broncos game!

cutthemdown
11-29-2011, 06:57 PM
On NFLN they had Heath Evans saying the option offense will be shut down by disciplined defenses.

Its always something. I guess we'll see one way or another. The "best" defense we play for the remainder of the regular season is Chicago's.

:Broncos:

They just don't get it. These players are not disciplined. They want to make big plays, gets sacks and INT to make the big money and do a celebration dance. That is the beauty of this offense and the talkin heads dont get it yet. These players are unable to stay disciplined for 50 running plays. They just can't do it. The 3 and 4 yrds a pop it gets, even when defense plays it well, drives them nuts.

Also it fails to account for the fact most times the defense can play it right, and still end up having to guard a WR or Tebow man to man. One missed tackle and Tebow goes for 10 yrds every time, sometimes even more.

You could shut rodgers down to if you just stayed true to your zones and then broke on the ball and made a play. It's just easier said then done and you see it over and over a dback just mushing out and letting a WR run right past him.

In the NE game Welker ran a stutter go for a TD. They praised his route running. Decker ran a stutter go for a td also, they said it was HS bull**** that makes Denver a college team? It's just funny right now what is going on. I can't explain it. I can't say why people so love Tebow, or why the media seems to hate him just as much. It can't just be the football people.

cutthemdown
11-29-2011, 07:01 PM
This makes no f'ing sense.

1) Football is more muscle memory than cerebral. When you dont play the option every week, you're not used to reacting to it.

2) The zone read option creates natural doubt. Because there's an option that features two different runners who are a threat in opposite directions, it requires backside defenders to "stay home" to eliminate the Tebow threat. Because of this, it creates a general mismatch on the front side. The only way you can completely shut it down is to blitz the **** out of it, but, of course, that leaves you incredibly vulnerable to the pass.

The reason more teams dont do it is 1) its a relatively new offense 2) most teams dont want to put their multi million dollar investments in harms way (like we do with Tim) and 3) most guys arent as good at reading the defenders as Tim.

Its a legit play. We arent running the f'n veer.

Really they are saying NFL qbs are pussies, they can't take the punishment college players take because the defenders are so much bigger and better.

They forgot though the defenders also lazier, more selfish, and quite honestly built to rush the passer. Thats the real reason defenses hate it. They want to get sacks and cause turnovers.

Really interception cost teams more wins then td passes win games. It's not easy for avg offenses to score without turnovers. You make them go 80 yrds and it seems eventually we get enough 3rd downs to let our pass rush damage them.

I'm loving how Doom looks. He's starting to get 1 on 1's because of Miller.

Wes Mantooth
11-29-2011, 07:10 PM
That's 'tarded on a couple levels. If you prefer Gabbert, fine...but Tim is actually pretty decent at throwing the ball downfield. And the logic about him winning too many games? WTF.

The one game I saw Gabbert looks just as inaccurate.

barryr
11-29-2011, 07:35 PM
Why do these idiots keep thinking the Broncos plan to use this same exact offense for years if Tebow is the QB? Did it ever cross their minds that with a full training camp and a couple more players on offense, they actually might do more than just have Tebow run the ball most of the time?

Teams do not have enough time in practices during the week to employ a full new offense, and practice game plans during the week. They have changed the offense as much as they can without sacrificing so much time devoted to practicing to hopefully be successful in the next game.

These "experts" do not know what the Broncos will do for the following year, but already are in knee jerk mode, hysterically "it can't work forever" while maybe, just maybe the Broncos also know this and plan to add more with a full training camp. But that might be too much thinking for the naysayers though.

TonyR
11-29-2011, 08:20 PM
On NFLN they had Heath Evans saying the option offense will be shut down by disciplined defenses.

The Jets did shut it down for the most part. For that matter both the Chargers and Chiefs shut it down for large parts of those games as well. 16, 17, and 17 points in our last 3 games. We got enough out of it to win, obviously, but without great defensive performances we'll need more offensive production. This is no knock on Tebow (I have to state that because I know many will take it that way) but just a statement of fact that we're going to have to pass more. The option can be a big part of our offense, but we're going to need more balance and hopefully we'll get that over time.

OrangeSe7en
11-29-2011, 08:26 PM
The Jets did shut it down for the most part. For that matter both the Chargers and Chiefs shut it down for large parts of those games as well. 16, 17, and 17 points in our last 3 games. We got enough out of it to win, obviously, but without great defensive performances we'll need more offensive production. This is no knock on Tebow (I have to state that because I know many will take it that way) but just a statement of fact that we're going to have to pass more. The option can be a big part of our offense, but we're going to need more balance and hopefully we'll get that over time.

Before that last drive, Tebow had 2 carries.

TonyR
11-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Before that last drive, Tebow had 2 carries.

Okay? Is there a point here?

OrangeSe7en
11-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Okay? Is there a point here?

Yeah, there is. Before that last drive, Denver ran a lot of simple dives. They didn't really put the game in Tebow's hands and go to the option until that last drive.

TonyR
11-29-2011, 08:38 PM
Yeah, there is. Before that last drive, Denver ran a lot of simple dives. They didn't really put the game in Tebow's hands and go to the option until that last drive.

So we didn't run the read option until the last drive? Interesting if true although I must admit that doesn't sound right and I don't recall that being discussed the week after the game.

OrangeSe7en
11-29-2011, 08:46 PM
So we didn't run the read option until the last drive? Interesting if true although I must admit that doesn't sound right and I don't recall that being discussed the week after the game.

It's not like the read option is the whole offense. They may have run it some but it's not at all like it's all they do.

Better yet, can you say with certainty that they ran the option as opposed to simple dives? If the read option is the predominant part of the offense as you seem to want to believe, then, based on that, they shouldnt have been able to drive 95 yards the way they did with Tebow suddenly keeping the ball with success. If that was the predominant part of the offense, you should really be asking yourself why they suddenly stopped defending it the last drive.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-29-2011, 11:45 PM
Okay? Is there a point here?

We didn't really zone read a **** ton that game. We did hand the ball off a lot, but again, our offensive coordinator is entirely too conservative. That doesn't mean the zone read is "easy to shut down" By design, its not, as long as the basic threat of the pass exists.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-29-2011, 11:46 PM
So we didn't run the read option until the last drive? Interesting if true although I must admit that doesn't sound right and I don't recall that being discussed the week after the game.

We didnt run it much because Lance Ball isnt all that good at it and McGahee was playing half speed.

orinjkrush
11-30-2011, 08:14 AM
NFL coaching and reporting is so incestuous that anything new will make their collective head explode. They prolly couldn't handle something like this:

On December 6, 1925, somewhere between 65,000 and 73,000 people showed up at the Polo Grounds to watch Grange, helping save the New York Giants' franchise.[6][9] Grange scored a touchdown on a 35-yard interception return in the Bears' 19-7 victory. Offensively, he ran for 53 yards on 11 carries, caught a 23-yard pass and completed 2-of-3 passes for 32 yards.[6] In his first year, he accounted for at least 401 total yards and 3 touchdowns in his 5 official NFL games for the Bears.

MacGruder
11-30-2011, 09:30 AM
Yeah, Tebow is really anchoring that defensive group.

John Fox said the style of play they are using with Tebow makes the defense look better than it is..

The time of possession and lack of turnovers is HUGE for a defense that has aging stars like the Broncos..

Tebow's incredible versatility makes this possible. Orton showed that a decent QB couldn't get this pass offense to do anything.

Tebow covers up the weaknesses of this offense and may be the ideal match for his defense..

Also.. let's not forget the kind of pressure the offense Tebow runs puts on opposing offenses.. AND.. when Tebow plays his game he may be more dominant than pure passing QBs. With Tebow's style he can score when he has to. Again. if Tebow is the best redzone option in the NFL then why isn't he the most dominant offensive player in the NFL? Because every first down is a redzone in essence..

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 11:12 AM
We don't know if Tebow can throw the ball effectively. That's something you don't just "pick up" during training camp. At that level, you either have it, or you don't. We are not going to be able to teach him to throw accurately. If he has shown the limit of his ball throwing ability, then no.. he probably won't be a long term solution.

We are averging 19 points a game. Guess how many SBs that would have won in the last 30 years. Answer: 1

So while a stout defense might get it done during the year against so far, predominantly crappy teams, when we play several playoff caliber teams in succession, it's not going to cut it. Our defense is nowhere near the Baltimore defense that won its city a SB.

If Tebow can't get a higher completion rate, especially on third down, I don't think we ever win a championship with him. If we can't win a championship, what would be the point of keeping him?

snowspot66
11-30-2011, 11:31 AM
We don't know if Tebow can throw the ball effectively. That's something you don't just "pick up" during training camp. At that level, you either have it, or you don't. We are not going to be able to teach him to throw accurately. If he has shown the limit of his ball throwing ability, then no.. he probably won't be a long term solution.


Nonsense. Accuracy is about footwork and comfort level with the offense. Both things that can take time to develop.

Rodgers didn't come into this league playing the way he is now. That took time and effort.

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 11:57 AM
Nonsense. Accuracy is about footwork and comfort level with the offense. Both things that can take time to develop.

Rodgers didn't come into this league playing the way he is now. That took time and effort.

Really? Check out Rogers first 6 starts. Wait.. check out his entire first YEAR with the Packers where he started. His LOWEST completion rate for any game, is higher than the HIGHEST completion rate for Tebow so far.

Like Cam Newton, like Elway, like Manning, and like many great QBs. They ARE accurate. They have a good arm. They lose games until they do as you say... learn the speed of the game, comfort level, and so on. But they had the ability from the get-go. Tebow while winning games, has managed a whopping 50% completion rate to date.. his highest completion rate in a game. Many were quite a bit worse. He is NOT where those guys where, when they started. He is winning games (and more games than many of them won), but again.. 19 points a game? That isn't going to cut it.

The reason for 19 points a game? Lack of third down completions. In his first 5 starts, the Broncos scored ZERO touchdown in the first 3 quarters of each game. That's really terrible.

I like Tebow. I like the fun wins. But as a Bronco fan, I want us to win Championships. To get far into the playoffs. And I'm not sure we have what we need to make that happen in Tebow.

Rohirrim
11-30-2011, 12:03 PM
Really? Check out Rogers first 6 starts. Wait.. check out his entire first YEAR with the Packers where he started. His LOWEST completion rate for any game, is higher than the HIGHEST completion rate for Tebow so far.

Like Cam Newton, like Elway, like Manning, and like many great QBs. They ARE accurate. They have a good arm. They lose games until they do as you say... learn the speed of the game, comfort level, and so on. But they had the ability from the get-go. Tebow while winning games, has managed a whopping 50% completion rate to date.. his highest completion rate in a game. Many were quite a bit worse. He is NOT where those guys where, when they started. He is winning games (and more games than many of them won), but again.. 19 points a game? That isn't going to cut it.

The reason for 19 points a game? Lack of third down completions. In his first 5 starts, the Broncos scored ZERO touchdown in the first 3 quarters of each game. That's really terrible.

I like Tebow. I like the fun wins. But as a Bronco fan, I want us to win Championships. To get far into the playoffs. And I'm not sure we have what we need to make that happen in Tebow.

You're just begging for an ASshat stat barrage. ;D

Shotgun Willie
11-30-2011, 12:06 PM
Really? Check out Rogers first 6 starts. Wait.. check out his entire first YEAR with the Packers where he started. His LOWEST completion rate for any game, is higher than the HIGHEST completion rate for Tebow so far.

Like Cam Newton, like Elway, like Manning, and like many great QBs.

Elway had a 47% completion percentage his rookie year. Just sayin.

Archer81
11-30-2011, 12:08 PM
Really? Check out Rogers first 6 starts. Wait.. check out his entire first YEAR with the Packers where he started. His LOWEST completion rate for any game, is higher than the HIGHEST completion rate for Tebow so far.

Like Cam Newton, like Elway, like Manning, and like many great QBs. They ARE accurate. They have a good arm. They lose games until they do as you say... learn the speed of the game, comfort level, and so on. But they had the ability from the get-go. Tebow while winning games, has managed a whopping 50% completion rate to date.. his highest completion rate in a game. Many were quite a bit worse. He is NOT where those guys where, when they started. He is winning games (and more games than many of them won), but again.. 19 points a game? That isn't going to cut it.

The reason for 19 points a game? Lack of third down completions. In his first 5 starts, the Broncos scored ZERO touchdown in the first 3 quarters of each game. That's really terrible.

I like Tebow. I like the fun wins. But as a Bronco fan, I want us to win Championships. To get far into the playoffs. And I'm not sure we have what we need to make that happen in Tebow.


Yet the team is 5-1 and Tebow has shown consistent improvement from week to week. You should stop worrying what other qb's do/have done and just focus on the now.

:Broncos:

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 12:20 PM
You're just begging for an ASshat stat barrage. ;D

Naw.. just trying to point out that Rogers for example, was more accurate in his first starts. Now some of those QBs were worse in some categories such as turnovers, etc.. but they did learn to cut down on those mistakes, and more wins was a result.

Tebow has to be more accurate, and no.. you can't just "pick it up" during camp or in a single offseason. At least, typically not. Maybe he can, who knows. I hope so. I just know that if those completion and 3rd down #'s do not go up, it will be hard for the front office to justify keeping him, unless of course, he keeps winning and wins say, a playoff game.

Hey.. I'm hoping, just trying to be a realist.

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 12:23 PM
Yet the team is 5-1 and Tebow has shown consistent improvement from week to week. You should stop worrying what other qb's do/have done and just focus on the now.

:Broncos:

The Broncos are 5-1 because they are running the ball, and our defense is playing lights out. And our special teams finally look cohesive.

You really think this team can go forward with Tebow rushing TWENTY TWO times in a game? Seriously? Ha!

He is going to get hurt folks.

jhns
11-30-2011, 12:25 PM
The Broncos are 5-1 because they are running the ball, and our defense is playing lights out. And our special teams finally look cohesive.

You really think this team can go forward with Tebow rushing TWENTY TWO times in a game? Seriously? Ha!

He is going to get hurt folks.

He has done that once.

Good to know Mrs. Cleo. He is still the starter until he stsrts losing or gets hurt. When that happens, we can start worrying about it.

Orton got hurt every season while in the pocket. They still tried to go into a third season with him starting and doing the same thing.

Archer81
11-30-2011, 12:28 PM
The Broncos are 5-1 because they are running the ball, and our defense is playing lights out. And our special teams finally look cohesive.

You really think this team can go forward with Tebow rushing TWENTY TWO times in a game? Seriously? Ha!

He is going to get hurt folks.


I said this in another thread, but apparently it bears repeating. With Orton, Denver averaged 101 ypg rushing. With Tebow, 208. With Tebow as starter, the Broncos have turned the ball over twice in 6 games. Orton would turn the ball over twice in a quarter.

The difference, quite clearly, is Tebow. But as I said before, just go with it. This is how this young QB is winning now. He'll develop into a better passer and then hysterical nancy's such as yourself can find other things to pick on.

:Broncos:

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 12:34 PM
He has done that once.

Good to know Mrs. Cleo. He is still the starter until he stsrts losing or gets hurt. When that happens, we can start worrying about it.

Orton got hurt every season while in the pocket. They still tried to go into a third season with him starting and doing the same thing.

He has 455 yards rushing in 6 games. In 2006, the fans thought it was amazing Vick got 1039 yards in a single season, the NFL record. If Tebow averaged out his yards so far to this point, he'd have 1200 yards in his FIRST SEASON.

You really don't think he is running the ball too much?

"But it works"! you say.

No.. not really. Again.. 19 points a game is what we are getting. Do you honestly feel if we were not playing crappy teams, and our defense not doing as well as it was, we'd be in this position? I don't.

Sometimes records are misleading. Look at Orton's 6-0 start. Didn't end too well. He also played a bunch of crappy teams, our D was playing great, and we got lucky several times. Now he is gone.

I actually really like Tebow, and I enjoy watching him play. I just don't think the team will win a championship using this college-like style of offense.

jhns
11-30-2011, 12:38 PM
He has 455 yards rushing in 6 games. In 2006, the fans thought it was amazing Vick got 1039 yards in a single season, the NFL record. If Tebow averaged out his yards so far to this point, he'd have 1200 yards in his FIRST SEASON.

You really don't think he is running the ball too much?

"But it works"! you say.

No.. not really. Again.. 19 points a game is what we are getting. Do you honestly feel if we were not playing crappy teams, and our defense not doing as well as it was, we'd be in this position? I don't.

Sometimes records are misleading. Look at Orton's 6-0 start. Didn't end too well. He also played a bunch of crappy teams, our D was playing great, and we got lucky several times. Now he is gone.

I actually really like Tebow, and I enjoy watching him play. I just don't think the team will win a championship using this college-like style of offense.

Fine, it doesn't work. The defense and special teams just suddenly started playing good when Tebow came in. 5-1 with a 1-4 team, means nothing. Going 6-3 with a 4-14 team shows nothing. It is exactly the same as taking an 8-8 team to 8-8, like Orton did...

God just loves Tebow and makes everything else suddenly work when he is on the field. I'll take it.

bombay
11-30-2011, 12:42 PM
Now espn is rumoring a Peyton Manning trade to Denver in the offseason.

Eldorado
11-30-2011, 12:43 PM
It's the turn overs, stupid.

TonyR
11-30-2011, 12:45 PM
19 points a game is what we are getting. Do you honestly feel if we were not playing crappy teams, and our defense not doing as well as it was, we'd be in this position? I don't.

It's actually worse than 19. The offense is averaging ~17.8 ppg under Tebow. Total ypg has increased from ~301 under Orton to ~321 under Tebow, first downs have dropped from ~19+ under Orton to <17 under Tebow. The most notable improvement under Tebow, other than winning, is turnovers. ~2.67/game under Orton to ~0.77/game under Tebow.

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 12:46 PM
He'll develop into a better passer and then hysterical nancy's such as yourself can find other things to pick on.

:Broncos:

How do you know he will develop into a better passer? You are basing this on what exactly?

I'm not being hysterical. I just want the Broncos to win. Why do other fans have to get nasty and snippy when someone who is a fan like everyone else, dares say one negative thing about Saint Tebow? Do you really love the guy that much? I personally like him as a player, and I think he is exciting to play. I just dread another 2.. 3.. maybe 4 years of mediocrity because of another failed experiment. If this was some magical forumula that would win championships, other teams would have been doing it. The Broncos haven't stumbled upon some ground-breaking, hitherto unheard of playing technique that other teams won't be able to stop.

jhns
11-30-2011, 12:47 PM
It's actually worse than 19. The offense is averaging ~17.8 ppg under Tebow. Total ypg has increase from ~301 under Orton to ~321 under Tebow, first downs have dropped from ~19+ under Orton to <17 under Tebow. The most notable improvement under Tebow, other than winning, is turnovers. ~2.67/game under Orton to ~0.77/game under Tebow.

Which is an increase in points, while running the option.

6-3 >>>>>>>>>> 4-14

You can claim whatever conspiracy you want. That is the only fact that matters.

jhns
11-30-2011, 12:50 PM
How do you know he will develop into a better passer? You are basing this on what exactly?

I'm not being hysterical. I just want the Broncos to win. Why do other fans have to get nasty and snippy when someone who is a fan like everyone else, dares say one negative thing about Saint Tebow? Do you really love the guy that much? I personally like him as a player, and I think he is exciting to play. I just dread another 2.. 3.. maybe 4 years of mediocrity because of another failed experiment. If this was some magical forumula that would win championships, other teams would have been doing it. The Broncos haven't stumbled upon some ground-breaking, hitherto unheard of playing technique that other teams won't be able to stop.

How would other teams know to use it if it hasn't been tried? Did those teams have players that could execute this offense in the NFL?

6-3 > 4-14

That is why we laugh at you trying to take all credit from Tebow.

Archer81
11-30-2011, 12:50 PM
He has 455 yards rushing in 6 games. In 2006, the fans thought it was amazing Vick got 1039 yards in a single season, the NFL record. If Tebow averaged out his yards so far to this point, he'd have 1200 yards in his FIRST SEASON.

You really don't think he is running the ball too much?

"But it works"! you say.

No.. not really. Again.. 19 points a game is what we are getting. Do you honestly feel if we were not playing crappy teams, and our defense not doing as well as it was, we'd be in this position? I don't.

Sometimes records are misleading. Look at Orton's 6-0 start. Didn't end too well. He also played a bunch of crappy teams, our D was playing great, and we got lucky several times. Now he is gone.

I actually really like Tebow, and I enjoy watching him play. I just don't think the team will win a championship using this college-like style of offense.

If we ran option more than 10% of the time in any game I would consider this a college style offense. Its a zone-read offense...which most teams in the NFL use.

:Broncos:

TonyR
11-30-2011, 12:51 PM
Which is an increase in points, while running the option.

6-3 >>>>>>>>>> 4-14

You can claim whatever conspiracy you want. That is the only fact that matters.

This isn't about being better than Orton, dipsh*t. I have higher hopes than "better than Orton". You should, too.

Agamemnon
11-30-2011, 12:51 PM
How do you know he will develop into a better passer? You are basing this on what exactly?


Is that a serious question?

The entire history of young, developing QBs tells us they improve as passers over time, especially when they have good character and a good work ethic.

Archer81
11-30-2011, 12:51 PM
How do you know he will develop into a better passer? You are basing this on what exactly?

I'm not being hysterical. I just want the Broncos to win. Why do other fans have to get nasty and snippy when someone who is a fan like everyone else, dares say one negative thing about Saint Tebow? Do you really love the guy that much? I personally like him as a player, and I think he is exciting to play. I just dread another 2.. 3.. maybe 4 years of mediocrity because of another failed experiment. If this was some magical forumula that would win championships, other teams would have been doing it. The Broncos haven't stumbled upon some ground-breaking, hitherto unheard of playing technique that other teams won't be able to stop.


Actually watching every game he has played in and have seen improvement in ball placement and footwork.

For a guy who "likes Tebow" you sure are trying hard as hell to pick apart his game.

:Broncos:

jhns
11-30-2011, 12:52 PM
This isn't about being better than Orton, dipsh*t. I have higher hopes than "better than Orton". You should, too.

Like turning a garbage season around and putting us in the playoff race in his first season starting?

Broncos4tw
11-30-2011, 01:06 PM
Actually watching every game he has played in and have seen improvement in ball placement and footwork.

For a guy who "likes Tebow" you sure are trying hard as hell to pick apart his game.

:Broncos:

I am?

I've already said repeatedly I love the guys fire, his ability to win in close games, and most importantly, his ball control - he doesn't turn it over. Don't make this into a love/hate thing, that drives me nuts. I try to look at it logically, not wearing pro or anti Tebow glasses.

I look at like this: We've played some pretty bad teams. We are scraping wins in most cases, except against Oakland. The only team we played with a winning record (at the time we played them), crushed us. Tebow is rushing an abnormally high % of plays. He is bound to get hurt if we keep it up. And our point average will never get it done in the playoffs.

He may improve his passing game - he may not. I don't know that. Neither do any of you. I'm just looking at reality. Stop looking at 5-1, and think about how, how close they were, and how bad the other teams were.

OrangeSe7en
11-30-2011, 01:07 PM
They need to start factoring in rate of play, since we're running so much now.

BroncoBeavis
11-30-2011, 01:07 PM
We are averging 19 points a game. Guess how many SBs that would have won in the last 30 years. Answer: 1


Guess how many SBs were won in the last 30 years by QB's with less than 20 games under their belt.

Answer: 0

Just the fact that you're allowed to talk SBs without getting laughed out of the room shows just how far we've come in 6 weeks.

I never heard much about whether KO's play would win us Super Bowls.

TonyR
11-30-2011, 01:09 PM
Like turning a garbage season around and putting us in the playoff race in his first season starting?

You're the one who proclaimed the increase in points. Do you think <18 ppg against mediocre teams is going to be enough? I'm thrilled with what this team is doing, and enjoying it immensely. That doesn't mean I can't have serious reservations about the realistic and long term implications.

It's funny, but with both McD and Orton you were a realist. You always focused on the negative. Just the opposite now with all things Tebow. Credit goes to Tebow for making you a dreamer!

TonyR
11-30-2011, 01:11 PM
I never heard much about whether KO's play would win us Super Bowls.

How many people thought Orton was the QBOTF? And why does he keep getting brought into the discussion? I don't think there's anyone left who isn't glad Tebow is starting instead of Orton. He is irrelevant!

jhns
11-30-2011, 01:12 PM
I am?

I've already said repeatedly I love the guys fire, his ability to win in close games, and most importantly, his ball control - he doesn't turn it over. Don't make this into a love/hate thing, that drives me nuts. I try to look at it logically, not wearing pro or anti Tebow glasses.

I look at like this: We've played some pretty bad teams. We are scraping wins in most cases, except against Oakland. The only team we played with a winning record (at the time we played them), crushed us. Tebow is rushing an abnormally high % of plays. He is bound to get hurt if we keep it up. And our point average will never get it done in the playoffs.

He may improve his passing game - he may not. I don't know that. Neither do any of you. I'm just looking at reality. Stop looking at 5-1, and think about how, how close they were, and how bad the other teams were.

He has beaten a couple teams with positive records. At any rate, we were losing against those teams before Tebow, so I'm not sure what your point is. Tebow needs to take the second worst team in the league to the SB or he isn't good? Well, he still has the chance to do that.

This team hasn't lost a close game with Tebow starting. That pretty much says it all. He does what he needs to to win.

Again, there are many RBs that have lasted with more carries, and far more carries up the middle. Orton was injured every year and we didn't change how we played him. You are worried about ifs and maybes...

jhns
11-30-2011, 01:13 PM
You're the one who proclaimed the increase in points. Do you think <18 ppg against mediocre teams is going to be enough? I'm thrilled with what this team is doing, and enjoying it immensely. That doesn't mean I can't have serious reservations about the realistic and long term implications.

It's funny, but with both McD and Orton you were a realist. You always focused on the negative. Just the opposite now with all things Tebow. Credit goes to Tebow for making you a dreamer!

Actually, I am always a realist. You just chose to ignore half of what I say so that you can create drama.

5-1 with a 1-4 team. 6-3 with a 4-14 team. The realistic view is not an overly negative one. It is one with mostly positives. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

TonyR
11-30-2011, 01:16 PM
...I try to look at it logically... ...I'm just looking at reality...

Logic and reason are out of bounds when it comes to discussing this QB. It really is an amazing phenomenon. I can't think of another Bronco player in my lifetime who I've pulled for harder than this guy. I so badly want him to succeed. The dreamer in me thinks just maybe it can happen, that maybe there is something to this. The realist in me has doubts. For this, I am branded a hater. Doubt is not allowed!

jhns
11-30-2011, 01:20 PM
Logic and reason are out of bounds when it comes to discussing this QB. It really is an amazing phenomenon. I can't think of another Bronco player in my lifetime who I've pulled for harder than this guy. I so badly want him to succeed. The dreamer in me thinks just maybe it can happen, that maybe there is something to this. The realist in me has doubts. For this, I am branded a hater. Doubt is not allowed!

Sure, that is exactly why you are branded a hater...

Agamemnon
11-30-2011, 01:23 PM
Logic and reason are out of bounds when it comes to discussing this QB. It really is an amazing phenomenon. I can't think of another Bronco player in my lifetime who I've pulled for harder than this guy. I so badly want him to succeed. The dreamer in me thinks just maybe it can happen, that maybe there is something to this. The realist in me has doubts. For this, I am branded a hater. Doubt is not allowed!

Logic and reason have nothing to do with someone saying Tebow may not improve as a passer. Logic and reason dictate that he will improve. No one knows how much he will improve, but to say he won't at all is the opposite of logical.

BroncoBeavis
11-30-2011, 01:26 PM
It's actually worse than 19. The offense is averaging ~17.8 ppg under Tebow. Total ypg has increased from ~301 under Orton to ~321 under Tebow, first downs have dropped from ~19+ under Orton to <17 under Tebow. The most notable improvement under Tebow, other than winning, is turnovers. ~2.67/game under Orton to ~0.77/game under Tebow.

But Tebow's yards PER ATTEMPT is much better than Orton's.

I've always regarded YPA as the best measure of a QB's throwing success, if you absolutely have to focus on one number.

PER and other rating systems always overemphasize completion percentage without good reason. One 10 yard pass and two incompletions is better than three 3 yard completions at the end of the day. But PER ratings would rate the 9 yards from 3 passes higher than the 1 pass for 10 yards.

Anyway, trying to compare Tebow's passing to Orton's in pure yardage terms when the offense has turned the run/pass play ratio on it's head since Tebow started is futile. If we went from throwing 60% of the time to 40% of the time, of course there won't be as many yards. We're playing a possession game now.... and not under Fantasy rules.

TonyR
11-30-2011, 01:28 PM
Logic and reason have nothing to do with someone saying Tebow may not improve as a passer. Logic and reason dictate that he will improve. No one knows how much he will improve, but to say he won't at all is the opposite of logical.

Agree on all counts. The only question is whether or not he'll improve enough. I certainly haven't ruled it out.

BroncoBeavis
11-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Stop looking at 5-1, and think about how, how close they were, and how bad the other teams were.

I think based on what's been said about who we've beaten now, you'd have to qualify at least half of teams in the NFL as 'bad teams'

FWIW, last year we were right at the bottom of that heap of bad teams.

Shotgun Willie
11-30-2011, 01:36 PM
PER and other rating systems always overemphasize completion percentage without good reason. One 10 yard pass and two incompletions is better than three 3 yard completions at the end of the day.

Not necessarily. It's all about context.

What if we're talking 3rd down and 1-3 yds to go? I'll take those two extra three yard completions if they net a first down, as opposed to incomplete passes which result in a punt.

BroncoBeavis
11-30-2011, 01:47 PM
Not necessarily. It's all about context.

What if we're talking 3rd down and 1-3 yds to go? I'll take those two extra three yard completions if they net a first down, as opposed to incomplete passes which result in a punt.


The context was statistical (yards per game vs yards per attempt)

A hypothetical single-play scenario has no meaning when we're talking game-wide statistical measures.

OrangeSe7en
11-30-2011, 02:03 PM
Logic and reason have nothing to do with someone saying Tebow may not improve as a passer. Logic and reason dictate that he will improve. No one knows how much he will improve, but to say he won't at all is the opposite of logical.

I wouldn't even bother with TonyR. First of all, he's a troll. Second of all, he's an uneducated troll. He thinks every running play is the option.

lolcopter
11-30-2011, 02:53 PM
I'd rather beat crappy teams than lose to crappy teams... like we've been doing for the past few years

Gort
11-30-2011, 03:24 PM
How many people thought Orton was the QBOTF? And why does he keep getting brought into the discussion? I don't think there's anyone left who isn't glad Tebow is starting instead of Orton. He is irrelevant!

QBOTF = QB Opting To Fetal

yes, that sounds like Kyle.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200911/orton2_500.jpg

bendog
11-30-2011, 03:54 PM
QBOTF = QB Opting To Fetal

yes, that sounds like Kyle.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200911/orton2_500.jpg

yeah, but seeing how bad Tebow was initially, and the progress he makes each week, I can't say I'm sorry, or second guessing, Fox for initially just have tebow work throwing to the second team.

MacGruder
11-30-2011, 05:20 PM
They just had a segment on NFL network and one of the analysts on there found something really interesting..

The scoring with Tebow in his stretch of games is identical to the numbers Del Homme put up in their superbowl run year. Even the yardage averages were the same.. DelHomme put up 200 passing yards per game and Tebow running and passing puts up around 200 yard per game.

This proves what I have been saying all along.. the offensive problems are Fox.. not Tebow.. and not even Orton really.. though Tebow is obviously a lot better than Orton.

It also sounded like the analyst who found this believed the Broncos could win a championship with Tebow playing in Fox's system.. I don't remember if he came out and said that but it sure looked like he wanted to.

OrangeSe7en
11-30-2011, 05:32 PM
They just had a segment on NFL network and one of the analysts on there found something really interesting..

The scoring with Tebow in his stretch of games is identical to the numbers Del Homme put up in their superbowl run year. Even the yardage averages were the same.. DelHomme put up 200 passing yards per game and Tebow running and passing puts up around 200 yard per game.
This proves what I have been saying all along.. the offensive problems are Fox.. not Tebow.. and not even Orton really.. though Tebow is obviously a lot better than Orton.

It also sounded like the analyst who found this believed the Broncos could win a championship with Tebow playing in Fox's system.. I don't remember if he came out and said that but it sure looked like he wanted to.

I just heard that over the past 4 or 5 games Tebow is actually the 4th or 5th leading rusher in the NFL. Jeke Delhomme never did that. For someone who has such an insufferable devotion to Tebow that reaches an extent where it drives people away, you should really have this stuff pinned down. Fantasy football and rushing yards tell the story in volumes where Tebow is concerned.

If you're going to dial in on what Tebow brings, simply referring to Delhommes stats doesnt do it justice. Tebow brings a physicality to our team that far excedes anything Delhomme ever did.

I think if there's a narrative here, it should be that Denver finds innovation through the running game. It did it 16 years ago with the zone blockign system. And now it's doing it with having a guy like Tebow at QB. I think you'll find a lot of Denver fans where you can appeal to their appreciation of the importance of having a running game.

MacGruder
11-30-2011, 05:43 PM
What I am saying is that Tebow and Del Homme put up the same numbers but Tebow is doing it a different way and maybe even more efficiently.

The Panthers team may have been better than this Broncos team.. or maybe Tebow could do what Del Homme can't.. but I think the reason Tebow is so weak offensively is because of Fox I had noticed the same thing looking at Jimmy Clausen's numbers the season before with Fox..

Turd_Ferguson
11-30-2011, 09:36 PM
What I am saying is that Tebow and Del Homme put up the same numbers but Tebow is doing it a different way and maybe even more efficiently.

The Panthers team may have been better than this Broncos team.. or maybe Tebow could do what Del Homme can't.. but I think the reason Tebow is so weak offensively is because of Fox I had noticed the same thing looking at Jimmy Clausen's numbers the season before with Fox..

Or maybe it was that Del Homme was a back up scrub that nobody in the league wanted as a starter, and Clausen was a spoiled little punk that the entire team hated...

Lestat
11-30-2011, 09:43 PM
i barely wanted Gabbert when it was possible that we might take him at #2 or trade down to #5 or so to get him. so i'd definitely take Tebow and take him running away.

orinjkrush
12-01-2011, 06:08 PM
i don't care if the tebowski farts tds. or kicks FGs off the scoreboard. or scares all 11 opposing players off the field ala chuck norris. there are many pathways to success. but suggesting that THE way is the ONLY way is shear stupidity.

just watch and enjoy. and marvel.