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View Full Version : How does Elways sentiment effect this franchise


Swedish Extrovert
11-28-2011, 07:39 PM
How do you guys see Elways influence on this franchise? So he might need a little PR 101... but I think that at the end of the day, the decisions are all up to the traditional corporate structure of the football team.

I think Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and Fox are all sold on Tebow, so it's a non issue.

Bronx33
11-28-2011, 07:41 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101645

Swedish Extrovert
11-28-2011, 08:10 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101645

Yeah I saw that thread, thanks.

This is a completely unrelated question.

Dagmar
11-28-2011, 08:34 PM
http://i40.tinypic.com/18davn.jpg

Pony Boy
11-28-2011, 08:46 PM
29610

Swedish Extrovert
11-28-2011, 09:02 PM
It's not a Tebow thread, it's an Elway/Bowlen/Ellis/Xanders/Fox thread, with Tebow implications.

Taco John
11-28-2011, 10:04 PM
How do you guys see Elways influence on this franchise? So he might need a little PR 101... but I think that at the end of the day, the decisions are all up to the traditional corporate structure of the football team.

I think Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and Fox are all sold on Tebow, so it's a non issue.

I agree with you. I had this conversation tonight with montrose. I think that its getting to the point where it may be politically infeasible for Elway to move Tebow even if he wanted to. I hesitate to say that it's a done deal, however, because one bad game is going to cost Tebow more that it would any other quarterback - and any loss is going to result in the microscope treatment where every small mistake is magnified beyond reason.

By all accounts that I've heard, Fox and Xanders are Tebow's biggest fans. I figure Bowlen has to weigh in on this - and that input will probably come largely through Joe Ellis who is the number cruncher. Hard to believe that a ticket seller like Tebow isn't going to get support from Bowlen/Ellis. And by and large, the fan base seems to be sold on the guy - despite the few holdouts. All you have left is Elway sitting in a boat with Les Shapiro and Merrill Hoge trying to figure out how to trade Tebow and get Matt Barkley.

HAT
11-28-2011, 10:06 PM
How do you guys see Elways influence on this franchise? So he might need a little PR 101... but I think that at the end of the day, the decisions are all up to the traditional corporate structure of the football team.

I think Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and Fox are all sold on Tebow, so it's a non issue.

I think it's bull**** that Elway got pressured into to toe-ing the corporate line.

Denver/Tebow were rolling good when Elway was allowed to doubt & the OM was pissed. Now that Elway got pressured into not properly motivating Tebow...Denver will probably lose next Sunday. Hope I'm wrong.

Quoydogs
11-28-2011, 10:16 PM
Yeah I saw that thread, thanks.

This is a completely unrelated question.

BURN !

Swedish Extrovert
11-28-2011, 10:32 PM
I think it's bull**** that Elway got pressured into to toe-ing the corporate line.

Denver/Tebow were rolling good when Elway was allowed to doubt & the OM was pissed. Now that Elway got pressured into not properly motivating Tebow...Denver will probably lose next Sunday. Hope I'm wrong.

I was thinking about that, too.

Timmy is a big boy... he can handle it.

HAT
11-28-2011, 10:36 PM
I was thinking about that, too.

Timmy is a big boy... he can handle it.

Yep...It's a shame some recent converts don't understand this.

Obviously, my reply was hyperbole but it really chaps my ass (no homo) that there's a faction here who actually think Tebow is being 'sabotaged'.

Shotgun Willie
11-29-2011, 06:37 AM
So what you're saying is, much like a pain in the ass friend.....Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and Fox are going to "Luck block" Elway?

KO5K
11-29-2011, 06:41 AM
http://s8.postimage.org/4d57bikgj/fist.gif

maher_tyler
11-29-2011, 06:42 AM
29610

Ha!

KO5K
11-29-2011, 06:45 AM
By all accounts that I've heard, Fox and Xanders are Tebow's biggest fans. I figure Bowlen has to weigh in on this - and that input will probably come largely through Joe Ellis who is the number cruncher. Hard to believe that a ticket seller like Tebow isn't going to get support from Bowlen/Ellis.

Bowlen has made his feelings clear already.

He's fully on board the Tebow train.

jhns
11-29-2011, 06:51 AM
Bowlen has final say, but I can only think of once time that he took a players side. Elway has final say after that, on everything. He has even said so, although he followed it up by saying he lets the coach decide who starts. He could get rid of any player he wants. I doubt he would be dumb enough to give Tebow away if he keeps winning though. Who is he going to replace him with? Another young guy that isn't a top draft pick? They will miss throws just as bad as Tebow. That QB would be working with the same mediocre receivers. Elway would lose the fans even if the QB was someone that could develop.

Rohirrim
11-29-2011, 06:59 AM
Unless Tebow really crashes and burns over the rest of the season, I think it's a done deal. He's the QOBNF.

Taco John
11-29-2011, 08:46 AM
Who is he going to replace him with? Another young guy that isn't a top draft pick?

My guess would be Matt Hasselbeck, and then trade up to draft RG3 or Barkley.

jhns
11-29-2011, 08:50 AM
My guess would be Matt Hasselbeck, and then trade up to draft RG3 or Barkley.

Never going to happen. I think you are stuck in McDaniels mode. I trust we have a much smarter front office now.

Hasslebeck sucks and I highly doubt we can trade up for a top QB without screwing the franchise for the next few years. Our pick is becoming far too low for that kind of move.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-29-2011, 08:51 AM
I desperately fear Tim's next loss. It's going to be a huge pile on.

Gort
11-29-2011, 08:55 AM
I agree with you. I had this conversation tonight with montrose. I think that its getting to the point where it may be politically infeasible for Elway to move Tebow even if he wanted to. I hesitate to say that it's a done deal, however, because one bad game is going to cost Tebow more that it would any other quarterback - and any loss is going to result in the microscope treatment where every small mistake is magnified beyond reason.

By all accounts that I've heard, Fox and Xanders are Tebow's biggest fans. I figure Bowlen has to weigh in on this - and that input will probably come largely through Joe Ellis who is the number cruncher. Hard to believe that a ticket seller like Tebow isn't going to get support from Bowlen/Ellis. And by and large, the fan base seems to be sold on the guy - despite the few holdouts. All you have left is Elway sitting in a boat with Les Shapiro and Merrill Hoge trying to figure out how to trade Tebow and get Matt Barkley.

even if Tebow hasn't earned the right to be the starter for 2012, he has certainly earned the right to come back to camp and compete for the job. that's the way i see it. if he (and the defense and the ST) get this team into the playoffs and God forbid, win a game or two there, how can anybody be on board with replacing Tebow with a 1st round draft pick QB? that's like going on that TV show where they show you a prize and ask you if you want to keep it or trade it for whatever is behind curtain #2. we've done that before. it didn't work out.

vonqkilla
11-29-2011, 09:07 AM
I desperately fear Tim's next loss. It's going to be a huge pile on.

Fear not, for my ally is the force, of von miller. We got this.

BroncoMan4ever
11-29-2011, 12:46 PM
How do you guys see Elways influence on this franchise? So he might need a little PR 101... but I think that at the end of the day, the decisions are all up to the traditional corporate structure of the football team.

I think Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and Fox are all sold on Tebow, so it's a non issue.

Bowlen and Ellis are money guys, and Tebow is basically a way to print money, so they are happy.

Xanders had a hand in drafting Tim, so he is definitely in his corner and may have started out as the only one in his corner.

Fox is a HC and for them, all they want to do is win. also look at his record, he had no problem sitting back and letting Delhomme who was an average to mediocre QB lead his team for years as long as they were winning.

Elway won't fully be 100% behind Tebow until he sees Tebow win some games from the pocket and throw for at least a 60% completion rate.

fontaine
11-29-2011, 01:29 PM
Bowlen and Ellis are money guys, and Tebow is basically a way to print money, so they are happy.

Xanders had a hand in drafting Tim, so he is definitely in his corner and may have started out as the only one in his corner.

Fox is a HC and for them, all they want to do is win. also look at his record, he had no problem sitting back and letting Delhomme who was an average to mediocre QB lead his team for years as long as they were winning.

Elway won't fully be 100% behind Tebow until he sees Tebow win some games from the pocket and throw for at least a 60% completion rate.


Not singling you out but people need to do a little more shutting up and a lot more listening.

Elway absolutely said that he's looking forward to getting Tebow and the QB coach and other staff together in the offseason to go through and polish his mechanics, footwork and other things and that's where the improvement will be. He said all of these things defending Tebow on his radio show when the question was how can Tebow improve his basics.

But ofcourse the ONLY thing some people got out of that interview was Elway saying they were no closer to deciding who the long term QB was.

Fox only said a few weeks ago the Tebow is that starter for now. Fox also said that they're evaluating every player when asked if Tebow as the long term answer at QB.

The same clowns who said "Let's start Tebow to see what he can do over the rest of the season" now change their tune to "A few games is more than enough to decide the long term future of Tebow."

Swedish Extrovert
12-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Bowlen and Ellis are money guys, and Tebow is basically a way to print money, so they are happy.

Xanders had a hand in drafting Tim, so he is definitely in his corner and may have started out as the only one in his corner.

Fox is a HC and for them, all they want to do is win. also look at his record, he had no problem sitting back and letting Delhomme who was an average to mediocre QB lead his team for years as long as they were winning.

Elway won't fully be 100% behind Tebow until he sees Tebow win some games from the pocket and throw for at least a 60% completion rate.

Very concise and clear response here.

/thread.

strafen
12-03-2011, 03:54 PM
How do you guys see Elways influence on this franchise? So he might need a little PR 101... but I think that at the end of the day, the decisions are all up to the traditional corporate structure of the football team.

I think Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders and Fox are all sold on Tebow, so it's a non issue.

Never before Elway, had the position of vicepresident of football operations been more relevant within the Broncos organization, nor has it ever been more involved in the day-to-day operations as Elway has...
I'll bet most of you couldn't name his predecesor...

Hamrob
12-03-2011, 04:25 PM
I'd don't think that Fox or even McCoy are sold on Tebow.

For the record, I think they should be.

However, it's amazing to me to hear Fox gush over Ponder. He was asked what he thought about Ponder, and he said that he's a great talent, a 4.6 guy who makes nice throw and will be a good one for years to come.

So, Fox will go out a limb and make a comment like that about somebody else's rookie...but, he won't say anything close to that about his own QB.

I smell something...and it ain't roses!!!

BroncoMan4ever
12-03-2011, 07:26 PM
Not singling you out but people need to do a little more shutting up and a lot more listening.

Elway absolutely said that he's looking forward to getting Tebow and the QB coach and other staff together in the offseason to go through and polish his mechanics, footwork and other things and that's where the improvement will be. He said all of these things defending Tebow on his radio show when the question was how can Tebow improve his basics.

But ofcourse the ONLY thing some people got out of that interview was Elway saying they were no closer to deciding who the long term QB was.

Fox only said a few weeks ago the Tebow is that starter for now. Fox also said that they're evaluating every player when asked if Tebow as the long term answer at QB.

The same clowns who said "Let's start Tebow to see what he can do over the rest of the season" now change their tune to "A few games is more than enough to decide the long term future of Tebow."

i am not bashing Elway or Fox about their comments or statements recently.

i am stating that with Elway, even if he is truthful about being excited about gettin Tim a full offseason of work with the staff and work on his mechanics footwork and everything else, he still has doubts about the guy. he still is not completely sold.

Elway wants a guy who can win from the pocket and if he can do some damage with his legs that is a bonus. and until Tebow proves he can pass at around a 60% completion percentage that Elway will still have doubts about the guy.

i understand Tebow is only a 2nd year player with only a hanful of starts and not that many reps in practice as the starter, but his passing needs to improve before he has complete support from the franchise and can shut up his critics. i for one believe over the last few weeks that it has improved, and i think he is going to nail down the job long term next season if he gets the shot as the starter next season.

Garcia Bronco
12-03-2011, 07:41 PM
I desperately fear Tim's next loss. It's going to be a huge pile on.

Screw'em. Elway is doing what he should. Fox is doing what he should. Tim Tebow is doing what he should. I love all of it. Its all good.

Swedish Extrovert
12-03-2011, 07:52 PM
Never before Elway, had the position of vicepresident of football operations been more relevant within the Broncos organization, nor has it ever been more involved in the day-to-day operations as Elway has...
I'll bet most of you couldn't name his predecesor...

Oh, I'm sure he has authority. Denver's corporate structure is quite different from a lot of other NFL teams.

strafen
12-03-2011, 09:44 PM
Oh, I'm sure he has authority. Denver's corporate structure is quite different from a lot of other NFL teams.I'm not questioning his authority, at times I just think people mistake Elway for the GM of the team...
Remember how Shanahan was blamed for not being a good GM. You never heard of the vicepresident of operations much when Shanahan was the coach.
Now, it's as if Elway is expected to wear the hat of a GM.
Yeah, I know Xanders as a GM is as worthless as titties on a boar hog, but still...

Swedish Extrovert
12-03-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm not questioning his authority, at times I just think people mistake Elway for the GM of the team...
Remember how Shanahan was blamed for not being a good GM. You never heard of the vicepresident of operations much when Shanahan was the coach.
Now, it's as if Elway is expected to wear the hat of a GM.
Yeah, I know Xanders as a GM is as worthless as titties on a boar hog, but still...

I remember Bowlen saying that after him, Elway has final say in personnel... I mean, I'm sure Xanders is out in the field doing all the dirty work, but I'd say final authority in deciding who stays and goes is probably even higher than GM.

BroncoMan4ever
12-04-2011, 04:20 PM
Screw'em. Elway is doing what he should. Fox is doing what he should. Tim Tebow is doing what he should. I love all of it. Its all good.

Tebow is doing what Cutler should have done when McDaniels arrived. he knows he has doubters in the organization so he is going out and kicking ass to win them over.

Cutler should have kicked off his heels thrown on some cleats and said "**** you McDaniels, i am going to make you eat your words."

however, i am happy to have Tebow over Cutler now, so i am happy he cried like a bitch.

SoCalBronco
12-04-2011, 04:52 PM
I remember Bowlen saying that after him, Elway has final say in personnel... I mean, I'm sure Xanders is out in the field doing all the dirty work, but I'd say final authority in deciding who stays and goes is probably even higher than GM.

If we win this division, its not really going to matter what Elway or even Bowlen want. They've been backed into a corner. There's no way out, unless there is a complete collapse in the last 4 games. It's not "up to them". They're relatively powerless at this point.

elsid13
12-04-2011, 04:56 PM
If we win this division, its not really going to matter what Elway or even Bowlen want. They've been backed into a corner. There's no way out, unless there is a complete collapse in the last 4 games. It's not "up to them". They're relatively powerless at this point.

They are hardly powerless. I think that people overestimate public sentiment has on any decision. Fans might bitch, but are they really going to go away.

Drek
12-04-2011, 04:58 PM
I'm not questioning his authority, at times I just think people mistake Elway for the GM of the team...
Remember how Shanahan was blamed for not being a good GM. You never heard of the vicepresident of operations much when Shanahan was the coach.
Now, it's as if Elway is expected to wear the hat of a GM.
Yeah, I know Xanders as a GM is as worthless as titties on a boar hog, but still...

FYI, Shanahan was the VP of Football Operations when he was the coach. That is why no one talked about who the VP of Football Ops was. The position was left vacant during McDaniels' time and then filled with Elway after he left.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 05:03 PM
They are hardly powerless. I think that people overestimate public sentiment has on any decision. Fans might b****, but are they really going to go away.

Elway was brought in to a great degree to win back the trust of the fans. Do you really think that they would unilaterally do something that no only goes against logic (because we are winning and Tebow is improving) but the will of those jaded fans they openly admitted to trying to win back? Really?

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 05:05 PM
If we win this division, its not really going to matter what Elway or even Bowlen want. They've been backed into a corner. There's no way out, unless there is a complete collapse in the last 4 games. It's not "up to them". They're relatively powerless at this point.

I really don't think that the Broncos FO is that opposed to Tebow. They are happy to be winning, and I'm sure Elway specifically was happy to see Tebow do it primarily with his arm (Elway's pet peeve with Tebow being that he's been doing it more with his feet than his arm).

Bronx33
12-04-2011, 05:08 PM
I really don't think that the Broncos FO is that opposed to Tebow. They are happy to be winning, and I'm sure Elway specifically was happy to see Tebow do it primarily with his arm (Elway's pet peeve with Tebow being that he's been doing it more with his feet than his arm).


Well that perception got a dent in it today.

Agamemnon
12-04-2011, 05:08 PM
Tebow is doing what Cutler should have done when McDaniels arrived. he knows he has doubters in the organization so he is going out and kicking ass to win them over.

Cutler should have kicked off his heels thrown on some cleats and said "**** you McDaniels, i am going to make you eat your words."

however, i am happy to have Tebow over Cutler now, so i am happy he cried like a b****.

As much as I hate McD for what he did to this team overall, the fact that he effectively swapped Cutler for Tebow does make me hate him a little less. In his own idiotic way, he may have set up this franchise for years of winning, dominant football...

bombay
12-04-2011, 05:15 PM
I feel sorry for Tebow.

Drek
12-04-2011, 05:16 PM
As much as I hate McD for what he did to this team overall, the fact that he effectively swapped Cutler for Tebow does make me hate him a little less. In his own idiotic way, he may have set up this franchise for years of winning, dominant football...

Tebow + Ayers actually.

Wes Mantooth
12-04-2011, 05:18 PM
Tebow + Ayers actually.

That's right. We never would have got rid of Cutler, Marshall or unable to sign a decent free agent if it wasn't for that guy. Thank goodness!

Drek
12-04-2011, 05:23 PM
That's right. We never would have got rid of Cutler, Marshall or unable to sign a decent free agent if it wasn't for that guy. Thank goodness!

The returns on Cutler and Marshall are looking pretty worthwhile right now. Combined they gave us:
Tebow, Ayers, Beadles, Franklin. Combined they make less money than what either one of them gets paid per year.

Broncbow
12-04-2011, 05:28 PM
I think that its getting to the point where it may be politically infeasible for Elway to move Tebow even if he wanted to.

Tebow is not going anywhere, maybe Elway needs to go, and how...

elsid13
12-04-2011, 05:29 PM
Elway was brought in to a great degree to win back the trust of the fans. Do you really think that they would unilaterally do something that no only goes against logic (because we are winning and Tebow is improving) but the will of those jaded fans they openly admitted to trying to win back? Really?

I think they will do what they think is best interest of the franchise long term, and treat it like a business decision and not worry about emotions. When you worry about public opinion then you usually make the wrong decision.

Swedish Extrovert
12-04-2011, 05:35 PM
Tebow is not going anywhere, maybe Elway needs to go, and how...

You're not a Broncos fan. You live in Neptune Beach, which is one of the redneck capitals of the south.

We're fine with you buying Tebow jerseys and pumping money into Denver, but we'd rather you learn a little bit more about the franchise before jumping to conclusions.

You're a Tebow fan, not a Broncos fan.

cabronco
12-04-2011, 05:44 PM
A little off topic, but its nice for a change to see all the Orange jerseys in opposing teams seats. I think a large part is due to #15. There was a good showing of fans at charger game cheering, and more than usual at todays game. Its not at the level of steeler fans of course, but still nice to see.

snowspot66
12-04-2011, 05:50 PM
I think they will do what they think is best interest of the franchise long term, and treat it like a business decision and not worry about emotions. When you worry about public opinion then you usually make the wrong decision.

It's quickly getting to the point that even as a business decision it makes more sense to give him another year. We've played ourselves out of the running for the top QB's and every win makes trading up that much more expensive. We're winning games and have a roster that is quite easily upgraded/bolstered in many areas. It's time to ride with Tebow while we build up the talent base of the team as a whole.

Br0nc0Buster
12-04-2011, 05:54 PM
The returns on Cutler and Marshall are looking pretty worthwhile right now. Combined they gave us:
Tebow, Ayers, Beadles, Franklin. Combined they make less money than what either one of them gets paid per year.

Thats not right
Here is what we got from the Cutler/Marshall trades who are still on the roster:
Ayers
Bay Bay
Decker
Tebow
Franklin