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View Full Version : Tebow opinion snapshot. Where are you at now?


JCMElway
11-27-2011, 09:58 AM
OK, just want to do a snapshot now, then, at seasons end, and then a week or so before the draft. Just curious to where the majority of everyone is on the Tebow thing.

Poll coming soon.

theAPAOps5
11-27-2011, 09:59 AM
T

elsid13
11-27-2011, 10:02 AM
u

frerottenextelway
11-27-2011, 10:11 AM
I support the Broncos and their winning quarterback, especially after all the losing we had been doing.

Armchair Bronco
11-27-2011, 10:11 AM
You left off a choice: "Elway will trade Tebow, who will lead his new team to greatness."

Spider
11-27-2011, 10:11 AM
Oh my tebow ...............

bronco militia
11-27-2011, 10:14 AM
you forgot "Just along for the ride....winning is great"

JCMElway
11-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Militia, I purposefully left that option out of the mix. It's a cop out and won't sum up an actual opinion about Tebow.

cabronco
11-27-2011, 10:22 AM
Boob mojo live on cbs !

Armchair Bronco
11-27-2011, 10:24 AM
Boob mojo live on cbs !

The boys are working pretty hard to keep their eyes on the camera... :thumbsup:

ICON
11-27-2011, 10:34 AM
We're wining now and I love it

But I need to see TT get better on 3rd downs Before I give him the keys .

Bring in a vet like Matt Flynn to compete but I would give TT an off-season and camp to get better.

That being said in 3 weeks I will be able to make up my mind for now I want Fox to step up and let him pass.

Jay3
11-27-2011, 10:39 AM
Still pitching a Tebow Tent.

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm still in wait and see mode. He's got a Dudley Do Right character. No problems there. But can he be turned into an NFL passing QB? I have to agree with Marino here. I doubt it. That would be like taking a sheep herding dog and turning it into a retriever. Ain't gonna happen. Six more games find out.

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 11:21 AM
I'm still in wait and see mode. He's got a Dudley Do Right character. No problems there. But can he be turned into an NFL passing QB? I have to agree with Marino here. I doubt it. That would be like taking a sheep herding dog and turning it into a retriever. Ain't gonna happen. Six more games find out.

Even Shula couldn't turn Marino into a Super Bowl winning QB so these transformations are useless unless they yield a Lombardi.

Also, throwing a football isn't some mystical thing. It can be taught. It is taught ever friggin day. Every rookie QB in the NFL has trouble with reads and timing. Every one falls back into comfortable, albeit bad, habits. But Tebow has a knack for winning and raising his game when it matters most and you just can not teach that. Ask Marino.

ColoradoDarin
11-27-2011, 11:21 AM
Boob mojo live on cbs !

:worthless

Play2win
11-27-2011, 11:24 AM
Stick with tebow, but if we have a chance to get Barkley... do it and don't look back. Either this year or next year, depending when Barkley comes out.

cabronco
11-27-2011, 11:31 AM
:worthless


Oh my bad..

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 11:33 AM
Stick with tebow, but if we have a chance to get Barkley... do it and don't look back. Either this year or next year, depending when Barkley comes out.

Barkley<Leinart. No thanks. Don't need a pocket passer that bad.

My post isn't displaying properly. The gist is Barkley is a new version of Leinart and I don't need a pocket passer that desperately.

errand
11-27-2011, 11:38 AM
Even Shula couldn't turn Marino into a Super Bowl winning QB so these transformations are useless unless they yield a Lombardi.

So, by your logic Trent Dilfer > Marino, Tarkenton, McNabb, McNair,and Kelly? Sorry but winning a lombardi isn't the only measure of a great QB...it's more the measure of a great team.


Also, throwing a football isn't some mystical thing. It can be taught. It is taught ever friggin day.

Tim's been a QB since middle school and still struggles throwing the ball especially as the competition gets better...you know the whole NFL > NCAA > High School > Middle School.

And you'd think somewhere along the lines he'd have developed better mechanics...but perhaps like many claim, he was big fish in little pond until now, and his coaches didn't know how or even care to teach him....who knows?


rookie QB in the NFL has trouble with reads and timing. Every one falls back into comfortable, albeit bad, habits.

But, Tim is not a rookie....and his passing seems to have regressed from 2010 to 2011....he actually was much more accurate last year when he was a rookie.


But Tebow has a knack for winning and raising his game when it matters most and you just can not teach that. Ask Marino.

This is the one intangible he has that endears himself to me as our starting QB...he has a way of finding a way...and that's why even though I'm not 100% in his corner I'm cool with letting him finish the season out and hoping he'll make marked improvement in his throwing the ball, and making plays from the pocket. I'm not as concerned with wins this year...IF he demonstrates the ability to make progress in key areas. Next season though if he's our starter he'll have no excuses right?




in bold

Dagmar
11-27-2011, 11:39 AM
I'm still in wait and see mode. He's got a Dudley Do Right character. No problems there. But can he be turned into an NFL passing QB? I have to agree with Marino here. I doubt it. That would be like taking a sheep herding dog and turning it into a retriever. Ain't gonna happen. Six more games find out.

People who are not - We're wining now. Give him another year and pick up a vet QB just in case. - are either in love with the guy (macGruder) or in hate with the guy (TGN)

Bronx33
11-27-2011, 11:40 AM
Still pitching a Tebow Tent.


I am kinda in this mode only i am not sleeping in it yet ( i am just going to look at it) and see what the next storm does to it.

montrose
11-27-2011, 11:44 AM
I voted he wont be here, not because I dont think he can play but because Elway will go in another direction regardless.

Play2win
11-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Barkley<Leinart. No thanks. Don't need a pocket passer that bad.

My post isn't displaying properly. The gist is Barkley is a new version of Leinart and I don't need a pocket passer that desperately.

If you watched any of the last two games he played in, you might have a different opinion. He basically was running-- and playing balls-out-- a more pro offense than at least half the teams in the NFL.

Last night's performance was one of the most impressive performances I have seen in quite a while. (albeit against ucla)

Play2win
11-27-2011, 11:50 AM
You would think Barkley is exactly the QB Elway would want to get in here.

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 11:52 AM
in bold

Not by my estimation but if we are going to gauge success and failure by that singular yardstick then that is the result.

Tim does need to learn and I don't think he has had a coach who wanted to bother with it because he did everything so well why worry about what is wrong when so much else is right? Wouldn't surprise me one bit. However, does anybody doubt Tebow's will to win and work ethic? Anybody?

For all intents and purposes he is a rookie. He has fewer than 16 games under his belt and no offseason to speak of. I say we commit to the kid for two full offseasons and 36 starts before declaring the need to "move on". And take this sword of Damocles regarding his status out from over his head. Tell him he has the keys and to let it rip. take care of the car but don't be afraid to put a dent or two in it. Just keep it between the curbs.

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Even Shula couldn't turn Marino into a Super Bowl winning QB so these transformations are useless unless they yield a Lombardi.

Also, throwing a football isn't some mystical thing. It can be taught. It is taught ever friggin day. Every rookie QB in the NFL has trouble with reads and timing. Every one falls back into comfortable, albeit bad, habits. But Tebow has a knack for winning and raising his game when it matters most and you just can not teach that. Ask Marino.

I think his point was that you can't turn him into a "pure" passer (like a Brady or a Manning) at this point in his career. You're going to have to accept his limitations and work with what he can do, and not expect him to do what he can't do. Marino was taught that quick release as a kid. Whether he won a SB or not, he's still one of the best passers to ever play the game.

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 11:54 AM
If you watched any of the last two games he played in, you might have a different opinion. He basically was running-- and playing balls-out-- a more pro offense than at least half the teams in the NFL.

Last night's performance was one of the most impressive performances I have seen in quite a while. (albeit against ucla)

Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Jimmy Claussen are just a few names in recent memory of college guys coming out "pro ready" fromro style systems. I am not buying it. I will take a rough diamond over a polished turd any day.

Broncos4tw
11-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Also, throwing a football isn't some mystical thing. It can be taught. It is taught ever friggin day. Every rookie QB in the NFL has trouble with reads and timing. Every one falls back into comfortable, albeit bad, habits. But Tebow has a knack for winning and raising his game when it matters most and you just can not teach that. Ask Marino.

No.. most QBs learn how to throw in peewee, in high school, and in college. They REFINE it in the NFL. Cam Newton looks amazing passing the ball. Not winning though. Because like Elway, like Marino, like Manning, like all great pocket QBs, they still had to learn the speed of the game.

No NFL team is going to want to spend YEARS teaching this guy stuff he should already know coming into the NFL.

And the defense and special teams are the reason Tebow was ever in a position to make a last heroic drive to win. The team and the defense in particular, is the reason we are winning. Against crappy teams. The only team with a winning record we played crushed us by 35 points. When a team is behind 17 points, how often does a running team catch up? Answer: never. So why do you think a running QB is going to do it? Every team worth a damn that can put up some points on us, is going to beat us, unless Tebow learns to throw the damn ball and make his reads, and not run at the first hint of trouble.

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 11:56 AM
I think his point was that you can't turn him into a "pure" passer (like a Brady or a Manning) at this point in his career. You're going to have to accept his limitations and work with what he can do, and not expect him to do what he can't do. Marino was taught that quick release as a kid. Whether he won a SB or not, he's still one of the best passers to ever play the game.

Come crunch time Marino didn't have the grapes to get the game won. I will take that over pure pocket passer any day. It is what separates Elway's legacy from the rest. People feared the legend of the Duke in crunch time. Not so much for Marino. Big difference and really the heart of my point. I will take a diamond in the rough over a well polished turd. No matter how it sparkles it is still a turd.

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 11:56 AM
You would think Barkley is exactly the QB Elway would want to get in here.

I really don't get the diss on Barkley. He took the top QB of USC in his freshman year and has held it ever since. Nobody has ever done that. The guy can play his ass off and is one of the best QBs to come out in years. Some team is going to get the real deal with Barkley. I'd be damn happy if it was the Broncos. And after next season, they can throw in Robert Woods too. ;D

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Not by my estimation but if we are going to gauge success and failure by that singular yardstick then that is the result.

Tim does need to learn and I don't think he has had a coach who wanted to bother with it because he did everything so well why worry about what is wrong when so much else is right? Wouldn't surprise me one bit. However, does anybody doubt Tebow's will to win and work ethic? Anybody?

For all intents and purposes he is a rookie. He has fewer than 16 games under his belt and no offseason to speak of. I say we commit to the kid for two full offseasons and 36 starts before declaring the need to "move on". And take this sword of Damocles regarding his status out from over his head. Tell him he has the keys and to let it rip. take care of the car but don't be afraid to put a dent or two in it. Just keep it between the curbs.

Absolutely.

The guy has earned the right to get the same opportunity that most young starting QB's get.

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 11:59 AM
No.. most QBs learn how to throw in peewee, in high school, and in college. They REFINE it in the NFL. Cam Newton looks amazing passing the ball. Not winning though. Because like Elway, like Marino, like Manning, like all great pocket QBs, they still had to learn the speed of the game.

No NFL team is going to want to spend YEARS teaching this guy stuff he should already know coming into the NFL.

And the defense and special teams are the reason Tebow was ever in a position to make a last heroic drive to win. The team and the defense in particular, is the reason we are winning. Against crappy teams. The only team with a winning record we played crushed us by 35 points. When a team is behind 17 points, how often does a running team catch up? Answer: never. So why do you think a running QB is going to do it? Every team worth a damn that can put up some points on us, is going to beat us, unless Tebow learns to throw the damn ball and make his reads, and not run at the first hint of trouble.

Maybe we should hire a QB coach then? Would you trust the development of Luck, Barkley, Jones, RGIII, et al to Gase?

Give Tim the same tools you would those other guys and I am putting my money on Tebow to win the competition more times than not.

It is a team game and if a player can be a cancer, can ruin a club, then the opposite can be true. A player can lead and inspire a team. Can not teach that no matter what.

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 12:01 PM
Come crunch time Marino didn't have the grapes to get the game won. I will take that over pure pocket passer any day. It is what separates Elway's legacy from the rest. People feared the legend of the Duke in crunch time. Not so much for Marino. Big difference and really the heart of my point. I will take a diamond in the rough over a well polished turd. No matter how it sparkles it is still a turd.

There are only two QBs in history with more come from behind victories than Marino, and they are Favre and Elway. Anyway, the point is that Tebow will never be a pure passer. That will never be the strength of his game, as it is with guys like Brady and Payton. Maybe his strength will be the intangibles, but sometimes a QB has to be able to win a game with his arm.

Durango
11-27-2011, 12:02 PM
I went with the 'I like his intangibles' option, although I don't necessarily think he'll be gone in a year or two OR become an H-back or whatever, other than a QB.

If Tebow can improve his passing and 3rd down efficiency, the guy could become a dynamo. The next big thing.

I really enjoy what he's doing and what he brings to the Broncos, but I'm certain some defensive coordinator is going to solve the option offense and the rest of the league will copy and improve on that defense.

To get above that inevitability, Tebow has to become a better passer. Keep 'em honest. He improves that phase of his game and watch out.

errand
11-27-2011, 12:09 PM
Not by my estimation but if we are going to gauge success and failure by that singular yardstick then that is the result.

I respectfully disagree that winning a title is the best measure of a QB's greatness....if it were then Otto Graham is the greatest QB ever...10 consecutive championship game appearances, winning 7 of them...

not saying it should be discounted, but Trent Dilfer proved that an Ok guy could win it all if he is surrounded by the right combination of D, Running game, ST's etc...

Tim does need to learn and I don't think he has had a coach who wanted to bother with it because he did everything so well why worry about what is wrong when so much else is right? Wouldn't surprise me one bit. However, does anybody doubt Tebow's will to win and work ethic? Anybody?

Nobody can question his work ethic, or his desire to win and be a champion but I'm curious as to why he's less accurate now than he was last season? and even if one were to argue his NCAA comp. %, that doesn't explain why he's grossly under thrown and overthrown some pretty wide open guys this year.....

For all intents and purposes he is a rookie. He has fewer than 16 games under his belt and no offseason to speak of. I say we commit to the kid for two full offseasons and 36 starts before declaring the need to "move on".

He's had a training camp his rookie year...and he's had a shorten one this year as well. As for his less than 16 games under his belt...it's not hindered Andy Dalton, nor Cam Newton...so again, he needs to step his passing game up.


and take this sword of Damocles regarding his status out from over his head. Tell him he has the keys and to let it rip. take care of the car but don't be afraid to put a dent or two in it. Just keep it between the curbs.

It has been removed...he's our starter...has been for 5 games now...they waived the only feasible option backing him up...he has nobody hovering over his shoulder waiting in the wings....unless you're claiming he's gonna worry about Quinn or Weber taking his job?




in bold

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 12:10 PM
There are only two QBs in history with more come from behind victories than Marino, and they are Favre and Elway. Anyway, the point is that Tebow will never be a pure passer. That will never be the strength of his game, as it is with guys like Brady and Payton. Maybe his strength will be the intangibles, but sometimes a QB has to be able to win a game with his arm.

Are we a passing team or a running team? We don't need Brady or manning. We need a well rounded offense that can run the ball 20 times a game with a suitable passing attack. We can do that and Tebow can pull it off. He doesn't need to be Brady. He needs to develop into a triple threat player that can run it, boot leg it, and pass it when necessary. We get a true 1 WR in here and some chemistry with the current roster these guys are going to make big strides. I think having this offseason is going to be as big of a help to this club as not having the last offseason hurt us. Big things man. Big things.

This year we are laying a foundation to build on. Every position from the front office to the water boy. Always remember we are rebuilding, in every sense of the word and we are looking at sweeping our division road games. How ****ing sweet is that? Tebow is a big reason for that.

And Marino couldn't nut up in the playoffs. Ain't easy to win a SB so John should stop with that **** like if we don't win it this year then Tim wasn't worth the effort. Ray Lewis carries his club, he's a leader. Tim can be just as influential...and without all the felonies.

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 12:13 PM
Are we a passing team or a running team? We don't need Brady or manning. We need a well rounded offense that can run the ball 20 times a game with a suitable passing attack. We can do that and Tebow can pull it off. He doesn't need to be Brady. He needs to develop into a triple threat player that can run it, boot leg it, and pass it when necessary. We get a true 1 WR in here and some chemistry with the current roster these guys are going to make big strides. I think having this offseason is going to be as big of a help to this club as not having the last offseason hurt us. Big things man. Big things.

This year we are laying a foundation to build on. Every position from the front office to the water boy. Always remember we are rebuilding, in every sense of the word and we are looking at sweeping our division road games. How ****ing sweet is that? Tebow is a big reason for that.

And Marino couldn't nut up in the playoffs. Ain't easy to win a SB so John should stop with that **** like if we don't win it this year then Tim wasn't worth the effort. Ray Lewis carries his club, he's a leader. Tim can be just as influential...and without all the felonies.

That's cool, but we have to do better than two completions a game. That **** isn't going to last.

RaiderH8r
11-27-2011, 12:13 PM
in bold

You and I agree that Dilfer is a pus bag. A Lombardi isn't the sole measure of success but that is the standard John is putting out there for Tebow. Maybe John is pushing that button on Tim to get him to perform...dunno.

Dalton's season is the exception that proves the rule. Cam is putting up numbers but not wins. Again, I will take wins.

If we have a club that runs the ball at will and wins games for the next decade I will be pleased as punch.

Bronx33
11-27-2011, 12:16 PM
I really never cared what dilfer has to say the guy has bungled his way into most everything.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:17 PM
That's cool, but we have to do better than two completions a game. That **** isn't going to last.

It didnt last.

errand
11-27-2011, 12:19 PM
Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Jimmy Claussen are just a few names in recent memory of college guys coming out "pro ready" fromro style systems. I am not buying it. I will take a rough diamond over a polished turd any day.

But what exactly do we have playing QB for us? You could argue he's both a rough diamond and a polished turd.....

some guys take longer to figure the NFL out...look at Leinart, he seems to have played better since they asked him to not be the franchise...

still out on Clausen as he' had the misfortune of playing on a very bad Panthers team his rookie year, and was beat out by #1 overall pick this year, despite having a decent camp himself.

Quinn? Well he's battled different OC's and injuries his entire career...who the hell knows what he really can do...although he gets less of a pass than Clausen does.

Tebow hopefully will silence the critics by winning games and making strides in his ability to throw the ball by the time 2012 camp comes around....cuz i agree if he ever does learn to throw the ball better, look out!

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 12:21 PM
It didnt last.

9 out of 20 for 104 isn't going to cut it either, troll.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:26 PM
9 out of 20 for 104 isn't going to cut it either, troll.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmhyf8ycya1qcexbyo1_250.jpg

errand
11-27-2011, 12:32 PM
You and I agree that Dilfer is a pus bag.



agreed

A Lombardi isn't the sole measure of success but that is the standard John is putting out there for Tebow. Maybe John is pushing that button on Tim to get him to perform...dunno.

Mind games work, ask Bill parcells....also, Tebow agrees with John that 3-13 on third down isn't gonna get r done in the NFL...and wasn't winning the lombardi the reason everyone clamored for Jay to replace Jake, and Tebow over Orton?

Dalton's season is the exception that proves the rule. Cam is putting up numbers but not wins. Again, I will take wins.

Dalton is more the exception, granted...but Cam is making a team that was 1-15 last year look very good this year despite not having alot of wins...they've been in practically every game this season, and alot of it has to do with him and his ability like Tebow to make things happen...

If we have a club that runs the ball at will and wins games for the next decade I will be pleased as punch.

I think all broncos fans would agree, except what if we can't run the ball at will, and we have to throw it?



in bold

Play2win
11-27-2011, 12:33 PM
I really don't get the diss on Barkley. He took the top QB of USC in his freshman year and has held it ever since. Nobody has ever done that. The guy can play his ass off and is one of the best QBs to come out in years. Some team is going to get the real deal with Barkley. I'd be damn happy if it was the Broncos. And after next season, they can throw in Robert Woods too. ;D

I though Barkley was just okay, maybe product of the system... UNTIL the last half of this season. He has been all-world. Does almost all the things right, looks off receivers, moves defenses with his eyes and that awesome pump fake he has. Plus many other things. Oh, and he's okay with the deep ball :D

He was so impressive against Oregon, and completely destroyed UCLA.

Remember, Oregon has pretty much had their way with anyone not name LSU.

Jay3
11-27-2011, 12:39 PM
No.. most QBs learn how to throw in peewee, in high school, and in college. They REFINE it in the NFL. Cam Newton looks amazing passing the ball.

Cam Newton could not hit he ocean from the beach when he was at Florida. Fans thought UF would be screwed when Tebow left. The real reason Cam transferred was that Brantley was recruited and penciled in ahead of him on the depth chart (Newton was that bad).

So somewhere halfway through his collegiate career, Newton got some good instruction on how to use his legs as a base and throw the ball well. It happens.

errand
11-27-2011, 12:59 PM
Cam Newton could not hit he ocean from the beach when he was at Florida. Fans thought UF would be screwed when Tebow left. The real reason Cam transferred was that Brantley was recruited and penciled in ahead of him on the depth chart (Newton was that bad).

So somewhere halfway through his collegiate career, Newton got some good instruction on how to use his legs as a base and throw the ball well. It happens.

Wow, you mean fans expect their QB to complete passes? who'd have thunk it?

Jay3
11-27-2011, 01:58 PM
Wow, you mean fans expect their QB to complete passes? who'd have thunk it?

Sure. And Tebow was doing it well, so their expectations were met.

I saw the other day where Andrew Luck is within striking distance of Tebow's career passing TD total. But doesn't look like he'll make it.

Blueflame
11-27-2011, 02:14 PM
Tebow himself? Option 3
The "Tebow thing" (media circus, fans attacking everyone)? Option 4.

fontaine
11-27-2011, 05:57 PM
My opinion hasn't change since the start.

Let the kid play the entire season before I or anyone else should make any kind of judgement.

Even then it's going to take a while, he's a long term project in the passing game but as long as the team keeps winning there's really nothing to complain about.

SureShot
11-27-2011, 06:05 PM
Barkley is shorter Than drew brees