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misturanderson
11-27-2011, 08:50 AM
Here are the stats of two players, one is considered the front-runner for the Heisman the other is not even mentioned as a finalist candidate in many circles. Both play for BCS conferences (neither for the Big East or the defense-free Big 12).

ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD
248 1622 6.5 54 29 17 248 14.6 63 5

263 1583 6.0 76 20 27 327 12.1 61 3

Which one is which?

Seems pretty despicable to me that a guy that has the second-best TDs in a season mark of all time for a RB, as well as a better Avg. in the running and passing game than another guy, isn't even mentioned in the Heisman race because he doesn't play in the SEC.

It seems to me that Ball could be a decent pick up for the Broncos in a later round (no idea where he is slotted right now) to take over some carries from McGahee.

barryr
11-27-2011, 09:35 AM
If you are talking Montee Ball of Wisconsin, he is someone I really like and could be had in the 2nd and maybe 3rd round since he does not have elite type of speed, but he has great size and toughness and has the ability to make people miss. I would be happy if the Broncos drafted him.

OrangeSe7en
11-27-2011, 09:36 AM
The Big 10 isn't the SEC even if they're both BCS conferences. I wouldnt mind a couple of Wisconsin's offensive lineman but Ill pass on Ball.

barryr
11-27-2011, 09:42 AM
The Big 10 isn't the SEC even if they're both BCS conferences. I wouldnt mind a couple of Wisconsin's offensive lineman but Ill pass on Ball.

True, the SEC is the best conference, except according to those that root against Tebow, where the SEC apparently turned to crap and he faced just a bunch of crappy defenses when he was winning 2 championships.

broncogary
11-27-2011, 09:51 AM
Why do we need two Balls?

Requiem
11-27-2011, 09:53 AM
I like Miller and Polk a lot better than Ball. Gotta hope some underclassmen declare or this class will suck at RB.

Doggcow
11-27-2011, 09:58 AM
I like Miller and Polk a lot better than Ball. Gotta hope some underclassmen declare or this class will suck at RB.

Polk is really good. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the best out of this class.

misturanderson
11-27-2011, 10:01 AM
I like Miller and Polk a lot better than Ball. Gotta hope some underclassmen declare or this class will suck at RB.

I can't say that I've watched much of either of those guys in actual games, but I really liked Polk's vision in his highlight reel. Miller is obviously faster than Ball, but what specifically makes these guys better?

misturanderson
11-27-2011, 10:04 AM
The Big 10 isn't the SEC even if they're both BCS conferences. I wouldnt mind a couple of Wisconsin's offensive lineman but Ill pass on Ball.

Well 34 TDs (+ 1 passing TD) isn't 23 either. And 6.5 YPR and 14.6 YPR isn't 6.0 and 12.1 either. Seems to me that Ball deserves the Heisman based on his performance in the conference he is in, over Richardson in the conference he is in. He absolutely deserves to be in the conversation. And the Big 10 isn't a joke as far as defenses are concerned, I think it could be argued that they are the 2nd best defensive conference behind the SEC.

Wes Mantooth
11-27-2011, 10:06 AM
How many career carries do each have? Hope whomever we draft have some tread on the tires.

Garcia Bronco
11-27-2011, 10:08 AM
David Wilson should be in the conversation as well.

OrangeSe7en
11-27-2011, 10:09 AM
Well 34 TDs (+ 1 passing TD) isn't 23 either. And 6.5 YPR and 14.6 YPR isn't 6.0 and 12.1 either.

The SEC is a more competitive conference. It's produced the past 5 national champions. This past weekend, it had the top 3 ranked teams in the country.

If Trent Richardson played at Wisconsin, his numbers would probably be something like 7.0 and 35 rushing TDs. Conversely, if Ball played at Alabama, he wouldnt even be starting in front of Richardson's back up.

Garcia Bronco
11-27-2011, 10:11 AM
As far as Wisconsin backs...i wouldn't complain. Ron Dayne still has Michael Vicks Heisman Trophy.

misturanderson
11-27-2011, 10:16 AM
The SEC is a more competitive conference. It's produced the past 5 national champions. This past weekend, it had the top 3 ranked teams in the country.

If Trent Richardson played at Wisconsin, his numbers would probably be something like 7.0 and 35 rushing TDs. Conversely, if Ball played at Alabama, he wouldnt even be starting in front of Richardson's back up.

The Heisman trophy shouldn't be awarded to hypothetical situations based on opinion of a conference as a whole. You could however look at each player's performance against Penn State since that is the only common team they each played. Guess who wins in that head-to-head? Ball, by a lot.

Guess how many top-50 rush defenses they each faced? 4 for Ball vs. 3 for Richardson.

So the 47% improvement on TDs by Ball can be completely disregarded because the SEC has produced the most national champions in the past decade?

Requiem
11-27-2011, 10:18 AM
I can't say that I've watched much of either of those guys in actual games, but I really liked Polk's vision in his highlight reel. Miller is obviously faster than Ball, but what specifically makes these guys better?

I think a lot of Ball's success comes from having a fabulous offensive line. That might sound like a lazy indictment against him, but that is one of them. You could run for the yards he did with the holes their offensive line is opening up. Think of all the "good" running backs who have came out of Wisconsin. What have they ended up doing in the NFL? Absolutely nothing.

As you mentioned, Polk has superior vision and is a tough runner inside where it counts. Miller is by far the better athlete, with better speed and has the ability to make people miss and get to the second level.

The best I can say about Ball is that he follows his blocks well, is a patient runner and has good vision. He doesn't have good lateral agility, speed or quickness (although improved with his weight drop) which will inhibit his ability to succeed in the NFL.

He will serve well as a complimentary back in the NFL, but I doubt he will ever be a workhorse back in the NFL. Fantastic goal line back, with the ability to score touchdowns inside. He struggles in pass protection and doesn't catch balls well out of the backfield.

I just don't see anything special with him.

I think with Polk and Miller, you will get guys who can be that guy and be true difference makers on the team and be foundations to build around.

OrangeSe7en
11-27-2011, 10:24 AM
The Heisman trophy shouldn't be awarded to hypothetical situations based on opinion of a conference as a whole. You could however look at each player's performance against Penn State since that is the only common team they each played. Guess who wins in that head-to-head? Ball, by a lot.

Guess how many top-50 rush defenses they each faced? 4 for Ball vs. 3 for Richardson.

So the 47% improvement on TDs by Ball can be completely disregarded because the SEC has produced the most national champions in the past decade?

Holy crap!

TotallyScrewed
11-27-2011, 11:23 AM
VT - David Wilson.

Pros:

Strong bruiser, falls forward. An arm tackle isn't going to bring him down. Great balance. Makes people miss and the defense often has to gang tackle him. Punt/Kick returner, good hands.

Cons:

Will try to make something of nothing, too often. I wish he'd cover up the ball better in traffic.