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View Full Version : Rev, I'm thinking RG3 if Elway goes QB in Rd1 - tell me why I'm wrong


montrose
11-26-2011, 06:40 PM
First and foremost, I'd prefer Tebow get at least another year. I think with a full offseason to work on mechanics, more time to sculpt the offense to his strengths and acquisitions to fit this system (a running threat at FB, better compliment to McGahee and "athlete" role Eddie's currently playing) the Broncos could be a true contender. In fact, in a league where the passing game is being over-emphasized and defense's are getting smaller I think it would wise to attempt to become the league's premier "physical" team which absolutly jives with Fox and the current coaching staff. You're not going to out-finesse Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc. so why try to emulate that style? Again, just my opinion.

However, this doesn't mean Elway agrees with me - in fact, I have a hard time believing he hasn't already made up his mind about #15 and that's his right to do so. You hire a guy to do a job and he sinks or swims based on his decisions so if Elway wants to make a change he's well within his right to do so just as McD did when he came in.

With all that, if we assume Elway will draft a QB in round 1 - talk me out of Robert Griffin III. The Broncos will be too far away for Luck and I'd rather they move up for RG3 than any of the other QBs coming out. Something I like about the Tebow attack is that his ability to run creates larger passing windows than conventional QBs see, Tim just isn't accurate on a consistent basis. I also like that the defense has to respect his ability to run which creates cutback lanes and forces the backside defender to be honest. I see RG3 as a guy who can still provide these benefits plus he's consistently accurate. Obviously at his size he cant take hits like Tebow (in fact I've seen him fumble a few times after getting rocked) but he has great speed and vision and will certainly run enough to threaten the defense and gain yardage while being consistent enough in the passing game to take advantage of the passing windows all game long. When you get the added benefit that he'd be "their guy" and have the full support of management in addition to the coaching staff, to me he'd be the better fit than Barkley, Jones, Tannenhill or Foles. He could also provide a natural transition from where the offense currently is, almost finding a balance between the current attack and a conventional pro style. You could keep Tebow around and let RG3 learn underneath him as Tim would likely welcome the challenge but in all realty there's no way Elway's keeping this "Tebow Circus" around if he's already gone out and gotten his guy.

Again, I'd prefer the Broncos build up the defense/running game around Tebow for at least another season but if we assume Elway's already made up his mind that he's going QB in round 1 I think RG3 should be the guy... why am I wrong?

http://www.ncaagridirongab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Robert-Griffin-III-256x300.png

Jay3
11-26-2011, 06:46 PM
RG3 is my personal favorite, but he will go top 5. Elway will need to mortgage the future to get him.

mhgaffney
11-26-2011, 06:46 PM
It appears that Timmy's inaccurate throws are not due to his inability to make the throws but with him being out of sync with the receivers.

Time should resolve the question - given many more reps - practice practice practice.

DrFate
11-26-2011, 06:47 PM
I agree with pretty much this entire post - my biggest question - is RG3 physically big enough (tall enough, heavy enough) to be an NFL QB?

He's 'listed' at 6'2" 220lbs, which means on planet earth he's probably about 6 foot in shoes. I know Brees isn't tall, but he's more the exception than the rule.

I worry that RG3 and Denard Robinson are the same player. (exciting college players but without the frame to be an NFL QB)

SoCalBronco
11-26-2011, 06:50 PM
My own guess is that they would prefer Barkley as he's a traditional pro style pocket passer.

elsid13
11-26-2011, 06:50 PM
Since there is very strong chance that RGIII goes back for another year (he is already enrolled in Baylor's Law School) I wouldn't be to worried about it.

DrFate
11-26-2011, 06:51 PM
My own guess is that they would prefer Barkley as he's a traditional pro style pocket passer.

I have a similar wonder about Barkley - he's also 'listed' at 6'2".

The combine will be really interesting when they measure these guys.

peacepipe
11-26-2011, 06:58 PM
if you're going to mortgage,you might as well go for Luck.

Broncbow
11-26-2011, 06:59 PM
I see RG3 as a guy who can still provide these benefits plus he's consistently accurate.

So was Tebow in college, before being forced to play with guys he has had less than 2 months to jell with.

Turd_Ferguson
11-26-2011, 06:59 PM
If they were going to draft a QB cause they don't like Tebow, or his playing style, why would they draft another running type QB?

Broncos_OTM
11-26-2011, 07:01 PM
RG3 is a dink and dunk offense hence why his pct is so high. he does have a fairly good deep ball.. i am not sure if he can make all the nfl throws though. Hes a smart kid with wheels .. not a big fan of his heigth.. im definitely gonna need more persuading

CEH
11-26-2011, 07:02 PM
RGIII will go top 3. I'll bet a dollar to a donut right now.
If Luck is 1A RGIII is 1B. No way we can get to #3 from #17 . We would have to lose quite a bit to leapfrog a bunch of QB needy teams

cabronco
11-26-2011, 07:11 PM
if you're going to mortgage,you might as well go for Luck.

For Luck you would need mortgage squared. I don't see the Cults taking any offers, unless a totally ridiculous one.

broncocalijohn
11-26-2011, 07:14 PM
I thought we would give up our 1st and go trade for the stud kick returner from the Cardinals.

montrose
11-26-2011, 07:28 PM
RG3 is my personal favorite, but he will go top 5. Elway will need to mortgage the future to get him.

This is my fear, that his stock will continue to rise until he's out of reach. My theory (again if they were hell bent on QB in Rd1) was predicated on going mid-1st round.

It appears that Timmy's inaccurate throws are not due to his inability to make the throws but with him being out of sync with the receivers.

Time should resolve the question - given many more reps - practice practice practice.

I agree with you, and his accuracy should go up in that case. Also, Decker wrote in his DP mailbag that the spin coming from a lefty takes some getting used to as well. As I wrote in the OP, I'm not saying I prefer RG3 to Tebow - I don't. I'm saying that if Elway does go QB in Rd1 and Luck is out of the question I prefer RG3 to the other options.

I agree with pretty much this entire post - my biggest question - is RG3 physically big enough (tall enough, heavy enough) to be an NFL QB?

He's 'listed' at 6'2" 220lbs, which means on planet earth he's probably about 6 foot in shoes. I know Brees isn't tall, but he's more the exception than the rule.

I worry that RG3 and Denard Robinson are the same player. (exciting college players but without the frame to be an NFL QB)

Probably the top reason to doubt RG3, size. Although looks way more accurate than Robinson to me.

My own guess is that they would prefer Barkley as he's a traditional pro style pocket passer.

Maybe, maybe not. Interesting Elway's scouted Luck, RG3, Jones and Foles in person but hasn't seen Barkley - yet. USC was up in Boulder the weekend he was in CA scouting Luck and watching the Raider game - but for a guy with a private jet I was suprised he didnt come back for that game and fly with the team Saturday. Instead, I believe it was Matt Russell that went.

Anyhow back to the pro style vs. athletic spread, my thought was that if Elway can't get Luck - why settle for a guy you may not necessarily love because of his skillset when you have an elite athlete in RG3 who looks very accurate too? Just my two cents there.

Since there is very strong chance that RGIII goes back for another year (he is already enrolled in Baylor's Law School) I wouldn't be to worried about it.

I hadn't heard about this.

if you're going to mortgage,you might as well go for Luck.

This I agree, I would only go RG3 if you could get him mid-1st. If his stock continues to rise I think Elway would probably stand pat and take Foles or Tannenhill.

So was Tebow in college, before being forced to play with guys he has had less than 2 months to jell with.

While I agree the lack of time with WRs is effecting Tebow's accuracy we have to be honest and realistic about it too. Watching both QBs, RG3 is a much more accurate and consistently accurate passer. Again, I would rather go with Tebow but I'm just throwing this out on the assumption (that I believe) Elway is drafting a QB in the 1st round.

If they were going to draft a QB cause they don't like Tebow, or his playing style, why would they draft another running type QB?

Because RG3 isn't just a running QB, he's a very accurate and precise passer with great footwork and pretty good mechanics. He just also happens to be very fast and a solid runner.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 07:51 PM
The Broncos will be picking too far back to pick Griffin.

His stock will remain high as he shows well for the rest of the season and then when his measurables stand out.

He's a sprinter. Like track guy sprinter.

Jay3
11-26-2011, 07:52 PM
The Broncos will be picking much farther back than Elway intended.


Fixed it for truth. :strong:

Popps
11-26-2011, 07:54 PM
RGIII will go top 3. I'll bet a dollar to a donut right now.
If Luck is 1A RGIII is 1B. No way we can get to #3 from #17 . We would have to lose quite a bit to leapfrog a bunch of QB needy teams

Wow, so if Barkley comes out... 1, 2 and 3 would all be QBs? That means you'd have to reach to get the next couple of guys, which I'm opposed to if they're not near-locks as pros.

Requiem
11-26-2011, 08:01 PM
Barkley and RGIII are both going back to school. I'll put bets on it.

Barkley will go #1 next year, have a chance to win a National Championship and get more accolades. He is HUNGRY for more.

That is why you are wrong.

But, as Lombardi said well over a month and a half ago, RGIII is their guy.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 08:02 PM
Wow, so if Barkley comes out... 1, 2 and 3 would all be QBs? That means you'd have to reach to get the next couple of guys, which I'm opposed to if they're not near-locks as pros.

Teams drafting ahead of the Broncos that will be picking QB's if they get a chance:

Indy
Miami
Seattle
Kansas City
Arizona
Washington


Others if the player is right:
Minnesota
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland

Others who could move ahead of Denver to pick a QB:
NY Jets
Dallas

Rohirrim
11-26-2011, 08:03 PM
Six games to play. Impossible to guess.

Requiem
11-26-2011, 08:03 PM
Minnesota just drafted Christian Ponder and the Jaguars drafted Gabbert. They aren't going QB in round one. Lol.

Jay3
11-26-2011, 08:05 PM
Minnesota just drafted Christian Ponder and the Jaguars drafted Gabbert. They aren't going QB in round one. Lol.

Minnesota won't, as Ponder looks pretty good. Gabbert is a huge dumpster fire. A very girly dumpster fire who doesn't want to get hit.

Requiem
11-26-2011, 08:08 PM
Minnesota won't, as Ponder looks pretty good. Gabbert is a huge dumpster fire. A very girly dumpster fire who doesn't want to get hit.

Jacksonville has holes all over their team. Even though Gabbert sucks, they aren't going to use a first round pick to replace him. That team is all MJD and that is it. So sad.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 08:09 PM
Minnesota won't, as Ponder looks pretty good. Gabbert is a huge dumpster fire. A very girly dumpster fire who doesn't want to get hit.

I cant see how anyone things that Ponder is a sure thing in Minny. He's Tebow who can't run the ball and doesnt pull games out in the clutch.

Gabbert is awful right now.

If either of those teams have a top 5 pick, I'd be surprised if they didnt take Griffin and/or Barkley.

Requiem
11-26-2011, 08:16 PM
Nobody said Ponder was a sure thing. Only you are stupid enough to believe they would draft a QB in the Top 5 when they just took Ponder @ 12.

*WARHORSE*
11-26-2011, 08:17 PM
We go defense first round.

robbieopperude
11-26-2011, 08:39 PM
[QUOTE=epicSocialism4tw;3389435]Teams drafting ahead of the Broncos that will be picking QB's if they get a chance:

Indy
Miami
Seattle
Kansas City
Arizona...nope..they are all in with Kevin Kolb
Washington
Cleveland


Others if the player is right: Meaning only Andrew Luck
Minnesota
Jacksonville


Others who could move ahead of Denver to pick a QB:
NY Jets...nope they are all in with Dirty Sanchez
Dallas...not likely unless a QB falls to them. I don't see them trading up to 10 or so for Landry Jones

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 08:53 PM
Teams drafting ahead of the Broncos that will be picking QB's if they get a chance:

Indy
Miami
Seattle
Kansas City
Arizona...nope..they are all in with Kevin Kolb
Washington
Cleveland


Others if the player is right: Meaning only Andrew Luck
Minnesota
Jacksonville


Others who could move ahead of Denver to pick a QB:
NY Jets...nope they are all in with Dirty Sanchez
Dallas...not likely unless a QB falls to them. I don't see them trading up to 10 or so for Landry Jones

Kolb is teh sukz.

I could see Minny and/or Jacksonville taking any of GriffIII, Barkley, or Luck.

The Jets are a loss away from throwing Sanchez under the bus.

Dallas will draft a QB in the next draft. Jones has no problem trading up for a targeted player.

Durango
11-26-2011, 09:02 PM
I'm not sure why, but Houston's Case Keenum seems like the kind of guy Elway would love to install as the next Denver QBOTF, and yet, no-one talks about him.

Keenum has great touch and a cannon arm. Is he a junior, or too short? It has to be something because he's never part of the 2012 QB conversation and I've seen this kid just rip defenses apart all season.

McDman
11-26-2011, 09:07 PM
I cant see how anyone things that Ponder is a sure thing in Minny. He's Tebow who can't run the ball and doesnt pull games out in the clutch.

Gabbert is awful right now.

If either of those teams have a top 5 pick, I'd be surprised if they didnt take Griffin and/or Barkley.

My dad is a huge Vikings fan so I get to see quite a few of their games, Ponder looks like he is going to be good. He throws a really nice ball but right now he is just making some bad decisions.

Gabbert does blow though.

Also, I don't think Oakland has a pick this year.

theAPAOps5
11-26-2011, 09:33 PM
Yeah I think Minny is happy with Ponder, he has looked pretty decent. Very mobile and a good arm

Inkana7
11-26-2011, 09:40 PM
I'm not sure why, but Houston's Case Keenum seems like the kind of guy Elway would love to install as the next Denver QBOTF, and yet, no-one talks about him.

Keenum has great touch and a cannon arm. Is he a junior, or too short? It has to be something because he's never part of the 2012 QB conversation and I've seen this kid just rip defenses apart all season.

He's like a 6th year Senior who plays in a Houston offense.

FRISKY_DINGO
11-26-2011, 09:41 PM
I'm not sure why, but Houston's Case Keenum seems like the kind of guy Elway would love to install as the next Denver QBOTF, and yet, no-one talks about him.

Keenum has great touch and a cannon arm. Is he a junior, or too short? It has to be something because he's never part of the 2012 QB conversation and I've seen this kid just rip defenses apart all season.

I think a lot of the reason why Keenum isn't getting the type of treatment that some other guys are getting is that it's easy to label him as a "system QB". Unfortunately for Keenum, his school has a history of producing good college QB's that are complete busts in the NFL. ( Ware, Kolb).

From what I've seen in Keenum, he looks to be more comfortable in the pocket and make more downfield throws for a stereotypical "spread QB".


I've said this for a while now and I'll say this for the first time on this board. I think we need to take a page out of the Bengals draft playbook. Take the BPA in the 1st and find a QB that FITS what you want to do on offense and can develop into a franchise QB later on. At this time a year ago, a lot of people thought Andy Dalton would a mid-late round pick and would be a career backup in the NFL. Not only did he impress teams and rise up the draft board, but he looks like the biggest steal of this year's draft. With NO offseason work, he's managed to come in and take the Bengals out of the AFC cellar and into the playoff race.

People make way too much out of HAVING to get a franchise QB in the 1st. If you find a guy that you think can lead your team to super bowl wins, you take him and plug him in, regardless of the round.

McDman
11-26-2011, 09:46 PM
I think a lot of the reason why Keenum isn't getting the type of treatment that some other guys are getting is that it's easy to label him as a "system QB". Unfortunately for Keenum, his school has a history of producing good college QB's that are complete busts in the NFL. (Shuler, Ware, Kolb).

From what I've seen in Keenum, he looks to be more comfortable in the pocket and make more downfield throws for a stereotypical "spread QB".


I've said this for a while now and I'll say this for the first time on this board. I think we need to take a page out of the Bengals draft playbook. Take the BPA in the 1st and find a QB that FITS what you want to do on offense and can develop into a franchise QB later on. At this time a year ago, a lot of people thought Andy Dalton would a mid-late round pick and would be a career backup in the NFL. Not only did he impress teams and rise up the draft board, but he looks like the biggest steal of this year's draft. With NO offseason work, he's managed to come in and take the Bengals out of the AFC cellar and into the playoff race.

People make way too much out of HAVING to get a franchise QB in the 1st. If you find a guy that you think can lead your team to super bowl wins, you take him and plug him in, regardless of the round.

As in Heath? He went to UT.

FRISKY_DINGO
11-26-2011, 09:53 PM
As in Heath? He went to UT.

Yeah, my bad. You get the point, though.

KevinJames
11-26-2011, 10:35 PM
If they were going to draft a QB cause they don't like Tebow, or his playing style, why would they draft another running type QB?

RG3 can throw

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 10:38 PM
My dad is a huge Vikings fan so I get to see quite a few of their games, Ponder looks like he is going to be good. He throws a really nice ball but right now he is just making some bad decisions.

Gabbert does blow though.

Also, I don't think Oakland has a pick this year.

"Throwing a nice ball" does not make a QB.

He's throwing just a tick above 50% and has thrown more picks than TD's.

If they end up in a position to take RGIII, they'd have an extremely difficult decision to make.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 10:39 PM
RG3 can throw

Tebow could throw in college too.

Not only that, but Tebow is built like a tank...Griffin is relatively small. He definitely wont be able to take the beating that Tebow takes.

theAPAOps5
11-26-2011, 10:42 PM
Not necessarily a hard decision, two QB's with a similar skillet can be good. Tebow and RGIII equals scary. But then again you are back to square one on who starts if the competition is close and holes on defense are still gaping.

Arkie
11-26-2011, 11:06 PM
"Throwing a nice ball" does not make a QB.

He's throwing just a tick above 50% and has thrown more picks than TD's.

If they end up in a position to take RGIII, they'd have an extremely difficult decision to make.

Teams almost never draft a QB in the first round in consecutive years. The last team to do that was the Baltimore Colts when they drafted John Elway.

FRISKY_DINGO
11-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Tebow could throw in college too.

Not only that, but Tebow is built like a tank...Griffin is relatively small. He definitely wont be able to take the beating that Tebow takes.


Yeah, but Tebow didn't compete in the US Olympic trials when he was 17. Making the assumption that Tebow will last in this league because he's "built like a tank" is a pretty lame excuse. Wait until Tebow has to start for a whole season. Injuries WILL start to pile up if he keeps playing the way he does now.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 11:23 PM
Yeah, but Tebow didn't compete in the US Olympic trials when he was 17. Making the assumption that Tebow will last in this league because he's "built like a tank" is a pretty lame excuse. Wait until Tebow has to start for a whole season. Injuries WILL start to pile up if he keeps playing the way he does now.

I don't think so.

Tebow doesn't take many more hits than a pocket passer, and he can protect himself on the hits where he carries the ball.

Tebow doesn't fit the stereotype of the black quarterback though, so it must be impossible to imagine that he can run the ball effectively.

FRISKY_DINGO
11-26-2011, 11:34 PM
I don't think so.

Tebow doesn't take many more hits than a pocket passer, and he can protect himself on the hits where he carries the ball.

Tebow doesn't fit the stereotype of the black quarterback though, so it must be impossible to imagine that he can run the ball effectively.

So how has he managed to have taken six more sacks (15) than Orton(9) when both started an equal amount of games this year?

Apparently taking sacks because you don't know how to properly read an NFL defense is the kind of QB play you want around here. Hilarious!

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 11:36 PM
So how has he managed to have taken six more sacks (15) than Orton(9) when both started an equal amount of games this year?

Apparently taking sacks because you don't know how to properly read an NFL defense is the kind of QB play you want around here.

Which poster's fake account is this?

ScottXray
11-26-2011, 11:37 PM
if you're going to mortgage,you might as well go for Luck.
It is time to STOP with THAT particular pipe dream..

Indy or anyone else that has the #1 pick ( not us ) is not trading that pick away unless they get the Farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink. And if Elway were to make that sort of trade he would essentially ensure that we would be terrible for the entire time of Lucks stay here....after which he would leave for a better team. There is NO such thing as a sure thing in the draft, and busts are as common as good players. Mortgaging the future to get one MAYBE player would be dumb, and probably result in the eventual dismissal of Elway and the FO.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 11:39 PM
It is time to STOP with THAT particular pipe dream..

Indy or anyone else that has the #1 pick ( not us ) is not trading that pick away unless they get the Farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink. And if Elway were to make that sort of trade he would essentially ensure that we would be terrible for the entire time of Lucks stay here....after which he would leave for a better team. There is NO such thing as a sure thing in the draft, and busts are as common as good players. Mortgaging the future to get one MAYBE player would be dumb, and probably result in the eventual dismissal of Elway and the FO.

Yeah, trading the farm would extend the rebuild beyond Elway's tenure. We'd suck for another two seasons and EFX would have long since been sent packing.

BroncoMan4ever
11-26-2011, 11:45 PM
Again, I'd prefer the Broncos build up the defense/running game around Tebow for at least another season but if we assume Elway's already made up his mind that he's going QB in round 1 I think RG3 should be the guy... why am I wrong?

http://www.ncaagridirongab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Robert-Griffin-III-256x300.png

the reason i believe you are wrong about RG3 is because if Elway and Co. decide to go QB in the 1st round, it means they are reverting back to the pro style offense and are bringing in a guy better equipped to do it. by drafting RG3 you basically are running a college offense for the forseable future and as we all know, Elway is not too keen on doing that.

with the NFL rules slanted towards the passing game and all the advantages given to QBs it makes absolutely no sense to not take advantage of those rules. While i agree Tebow deserves another season to see what he can do and if he can improve, i believe he will only get that chance if he dramatically improves in his completion percentage and 3rd down conversion rate.

i see no scenario in which RG3 can become the number 1 pick for this team. in the 1st the cost is too high for a backup to Tebow, especially when the majority of college programs run the style of offense we are running now and there will be other options to do the same thing in the middle rounds. the cost is too great for a guy who does the same thing as a strong majority of QBs in most college programs. why pay a 1st for a guy whose main use in the Denver-Tebow offense is as a runner, when we can get a guy with the same skill set later in the draft? if the team decides the Tebow offense is the way for this franchise then we will see a QB in the middle rounds who ran the same style of offense who can backup Tim.

if we do go QB in the 1st round, it is going to be one of, Barkley(height may be an issue) Jones(I think he is going to slide), Foles, or Tannehill(i believe he will be climbing draft boards) if a QB is drafted, it is going to be a pro style QB and not a backup to Tim.

Play2win
11-26-2011, 11:54 PM
After seeing the last two games Matt Barkley has played in, Man do I hope we find some way of getting him. Dude was just money, all game long.

ZONA
11-26-2011, 11:58 PM
First and foremost, I'd prefer Tebow get at least another year. I think with a full offseason to work on mechanics, more time to sculpt the offense to his strengths and acquisitions to fit this system (a running threat at FB, better compliment to McGahee and "athlete" role Eddie's currently playing) the Broncos could be a true contender. In fact, in a league where the passing game is being over-emphasized and defense's are getting smaller I think it would wise to attempt to become the league's premier "physical" team which absolutly jives with Fox and the current coaching staff. You're not going to out-finesse Green Bay, New England, New Orleans, etc. so why try to emulate that style? Again, just my opinion.

However, this doesn't mean Elway agrees with me - in fact, I have a hard time believing he hasn't already made up his mind about #15 and that's his right to do so. You hire a guy to do a job and he sinks or swims based on his decisions so if Elway wants to make a change he's well within his right to do so just as McD did when he came in.

With all that, if we assume Elway will draft a QB in round 1 - talk me out of Robert Griffin III. The Broncos will be too far away for Luck and I'd rather they move up for RG3 than any of the other QBs coming out. Something I like about the Tebow attack is that his ability to run creates larger passing windows than conventional QBs see, Tim just isn't accurate on a consistent basis. I also like that the defense has to respect his ability to run which creates cutback lanes and forces the backside defender to be honest. I see RG3 as a guy who can still provide these benefits plus he's consistently accurate. Obviously at his size he cant take hits like Tebow (in fact I've seen him fumble a few times after getting rocked) but he has great speed and vision and will certainly run enough to threaten the defense and gain yardage while being consistent enough in the passing game to take advantage of the passing windows all game long. When you get the added benefit that he'd be "their guy" and have the full support of management in addition to the coaching staff, to me he'd be the better fit than Barkley, Jones, Tannenhill or Foles. He could also provide a natural transition from where the offense currently is, almost finding a balance between the current attack and a conventional pro style. You could keep Tebow around and let RG3 learn underneath him as Tim would likely welcome the challenge but in all realty there's no way Elway's keeping this "Tebow Circus" around if he's already gone out and gotten his guy.

Again, I'd prefer the Broncos build up the defense/running game around Tebow for at least another season but if we assume Elway's already made up his mind that he's going QB in round 1 I think RG3 should be the guy... why am I wrong?

http://www.ncaagridirongab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Robert-Griffin-III-256x300.png

The only problem here is that the Broncos gave up picks to move up and get Tebow in the 1st round. Now you want to give up more picks to move up and get another QB in the 1st round. Giving up so many picks to have two 1st round QB's in a 3 year span, not such a great move for a very young team trying to rebuild.

Nah, I think Elway has to ride this thing 1 more year, especially if Tebow wins at least 3 more games. You have to use that pick on BPA per their board (hopefully on defense) and you continue to build the right way. We'll see how things go the rest of the year. If we somehow make the playoffs, after Orton and crew dug such a deep hole, and Tebow and company were able to overcome that, it says alot about Tebow, the coaches, the defense and what kind of character this team is developing. It's been fun watching the past 5 weeks or so.

Bronco Yoda
11-27-2011, 12:01 AM
Even if we do draft a QB in round one we still start Tebow next year me thinks. Then full competition in 2014. Nothing wrong with that besides the lost opportunity to draft defense.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:05 AM
The only problem here is that the Broncos gave up picks to move up and get Tebow in the 1st round. Now you want to give up more picks to move up and get another QB in the 1st round. Giving up so many picks to have two 1st round QB's in a 3 year span, not such a great move for a very young team trying to rebuild.

Nah, I think Elway has to ride this thing 1 more year, especially if Tebow wins at least 3 more games. You have to use that pick on BPA per their board (hopefully on defense) and you continue to build the right way. We'll see how things go the rest of the year. If we somehow make the playoffs, after Orton and crew dug such a deep hole, and Tebow and company were able to overcome that, it says alot about Tebow, the coaches, the defense and what kind of character this team is developing. It's been fun watching the past 5 weeks or so.

No doubt. Rep for having an open mind.

OBF1
11-27-2011, 03:48 AM
I was at the USC/UCLA game tonight and Barkley looked sick. He was accurate and his deep ball looked real good.... sure it was against a very weak UCLA squad, but for the first time, I was totally impressed. It is 50/50 that he stays in school.

vonqkilla
11-27-2011, 06:53 AM
Jax traded up for gabbert I thought, doubt they dump on that investment.

RG3 isnt our guy unless we are done with TT. To move that far for a qb would mean trading or cutting TT, the most popular player we've had in 10 years.

That pick could be a stout DT, a cb, Trent Richardson, etc...

6 games to go.

Threads like this assume betting against TT vs bills, kc at home, the ponder vikings, a bad SD team, a Hanie qb bears team.

I'm not going there until TT can be declared as not the qbotf, definitively.

Look the olines and qbs there, I think 3-3 is reaonable, 4-2 possible.

RG3 is intriguing, but its not like he is that much better than TT.

At least RG3's footwork and mechanics are pretty much set, his wind up is still long though. I think it'd be stupid to waste all the time and money on another spread option qb. Damn I just went there.

DrFate
11-27-2011, 06:59 AM
Teams drafting ahead of the Broncos that will be picking QB's if they get a chance:

Indy
Miami
Seattle
Kansas City
Arizona
Washington


Others if the player is right:
Minnesota
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland

Others who could move ahead of Denver to pick a QB:
NY Jets
Dallas

I can't see any scenario where Arizona, Minnesota, Jacksonville, or Oakland take QBs in the first round. You just don't invest a round 1 pick in a QB and cut him loose in less than a full season. (well, unless you are the Broncos)

The Cards are married to Kolb for at least another year and the Raiders gave up MORE than a first round pick for Palmer.

vonqkilla
11-27-2011, 07:09 AM
Buffalo could be in the mix. Contract supposedly gives them outs on fitz.

I want more HAM. QB drama needs to be settled and get some cohesion on this team.

barryr
11-27-2011, 07:32 AM
Barkley is playing himself into top 5 status in the draft. Griffin plays in a spread offense, so the Broncos's interest in him would depend on if planning to use such an offense or not. Taking Griffin to play in a conventional offense would seem pretty dumb.

CEH
11-27-2011, 07:38 AM
Currently, several teams with a QB (CAR,STL,Minny) sitting in the top 5, makes trading up and leap frogging teams like MIA, WASH,SEA,KC that much more difficult and expensive. Supply and demand. Too many QB needy teams not enough top end QBs. Best bet for Denver might be to move backwards and pick up a QB late first ala Joe Flacco in front of the all the top of the 2nd teams

barryr
11-27-2011, 07:46 AM
Currently, several teams with a QB (CAR,STL,Minny) sitting in the top 5, makes trading up and leap frogging teams like MIA, WASH,SEA,KC that much more difficult and expensive. Supply and demand. Too many QB needy teams not enough top end QBs. Best bet for Denver might be to move backwards and pick up a QB late first ala Joe Flacco in front of the all the top of the 2nd teams

I'd rather see the Broncos trade down and get some extra picks to help get some more talent on this team. Tanneyhill, especially after his poor game against Texas lately, may have dropped a little. The Broncos will draft a QB at some point in the draft, but guys like Tanneyhill, Foles, Keenum, Cousins, Chandler Harnish, Austin Davis, are the types they likely pick from, depending on whom else comes out of course.

McDman
11-27-2011, 07:54 AM
"Throwing a nice ball" does not make a QB.

He's throwing just a tick above 50% and has thrown more picks than TD's.

If they end up in a position to take RGIII, they'd have an extremely difficult decision to make.

No, they really don't. They absolutely will not take a QB. Ponder has shown that he has the skill set to be a pro QB.

elsid13
11-27-2011, 07:58 AM
Barkley is playing himself into top 5 status in the draft. Griffin plays in a spread offense, so the Broncos's interest in him would depend on if planning to use such an offense or not. Taking Griffin to play in a conventional offense would seem pretty dumb.

There is no reason to believe that Griffin couldn't transition into a pro style offense. Beside Baylor runs a modified Air Raid style not a Meyer Option Read system..

HorseHead
11-27-2011, 08:01 AM
Caught a little of RG3 last night against Tech...very impressive. Seems a little slight in build. But I was impressed with his touch, and feel in the pocket. Prior to last night, I did not know how much this kid has s-it together. Already has his diploma, great leader, etc. . Honestly, he won't be around. That's if he does come out. Still though, not a big guy, he's going to have to eat a steak or two.

Right now you have to give Tim a shot. Announcers and talking heads are going way overboard on what you have to do with the offense. Cater to his strengths, grab a back in the draft somewhere, and they will have to pick one up in free agency too, despite how valuable Willis has proven to be. Bowlen, say what you will, knows what he has on his hands from a marketing and business standpoint. You have a financial asset on your hands, you milk it for all you can. You give "15" a chance..

BroncoInferno
11-27-2011, 08:14 AM
We are going to be drafting too low to have a shot at Luck, Barkley, or RGIII. You can probably toss Jones in there as well.

barryr
11-27-2011, 08:18 AM
There is no reason to believe that Griffin couldn't transition into a pro style offense. Beside Baylor runs a modified Air Raid style not a Meyer Option Read system..

Griffin has spent much time in the shotgun and and not under center, which was a huge concern for some apparently about Tebow since he did the same in college and was not under center much then either.

I am talking about an offense that basically just wants the QB to be a pocket passer, hand the ball off most of the time and basically be a conservative type. If the team drafting Griffin has that philosophy, that would be a waste of his talents and he would not do so well. Not that he is a guaranteed success since plenty of QB's have come to the NFL passing the ball all over the place, but did nothing in the NFL.

I remember the Bills running a no huddle, shotgun offense with Jim Kelly for years. Of course it takes having surrounding talent to make it work and even if the Broncos took Griffin, they do not have the pieces right now to have a high octane offense to say the least.

gyldenlove
11-27-2011, 08:25 AM
Barkley will almost surely go back, I doubt he will get more than a low 1st round grade, he stares down his 1st target like he just caught him sleeping with his sister, he throws an ugly spiral on medium and deep passes and his arm strength is not elite by any means, he really has to push the deep ball.

Griffin will be the 2nd QB drafted and will go well before we get a shot at him unless we lose out, and even then it is no sure thing. Size is important, if he comes in at 6'2 during combine then he is fine, if he is 6'1 0 or less he will drop but probably not enough.

Landry Jones is a huge unknown, he reminds me a bit of Ryan Mallett or Jack Locker in that he has some obvious circumstances that will detract from his value but also some really nice upside, and it really comes down to wether a team feels his production and good measurables can make up for the fact that he has an outstanding support cast, has failed to win when the pressure was really on and doesn't have a big time arm.

Dedhed
11-27-2011, 08:44 AM
Taking a QB in round one at this point would be a terrible idea, imo. It may have made sense when we were looking like we would have another top 5 selection, but at this point it would be crazy.

That said, it would be an even worse idea to take RGIII "because he could run a similar offense to Tebow". If this is an offense we're going to commit to, then we have the QB of the immediate future. Why, on earth, would you spend a first round pick, and others you'd have to give to move into a position where RGIII might be available, to then take a back up to the guy who is currently 4-1 running this offense.

I can understand, though I disagree with, the mentality of taking a QB who might be better equipped at running a more conventional NFL offense, but moving up to take a guy because he's a little like the guy who we already have would be completely asinine.

Rohirrim
11-27-2011, 08:55 AM
Barkley will almost surely go back, I doubt he will get more than a low 1st round grade, he stares down his 1st target like he just caught him sleeping with his sister, he throws an ugly spiral on medium and deep passes and his arm strength is not elite by any means, he really has to push the deep ball.

Griffin will be the 2nd QB drafted and will go well before we get a shot at him unless we lose out, and even then it is no sure thing. Size is important, if he comes in at 6'2 during combine then he is fine, if he is 6'1 0 or less he will drop but probably not enough.

Landry Jones is a huge unknown, he reminds me a bit of Ryan Mallett or Jack Locker in that he has some obvious circumstances that will detract from his value but also some really nice upside, and it really comes down to wether a team feels his production and good measurables can make up for the fact that he has an outstanding support cast, has failed to win when the pressure was really on and doesn't have a big time arm.

Your profile of Barkley is so far off the mark that if you hadn't included his name, I'd have no idea who you were talking about.

misturanderson
11-27-2011, 09:13 AM
I can't see any scenario where Arizona, Minnesota, Jacksonville, or Oakland take QBs in the first round. You just don't invest a round 1 pick in a QB and cut him loose in less than a full season. (well, unless you are the Broncos)

The Cards are married to Kolb for at least another year and the Raiders gave up MORE than a first round pick for Palmer.

I also don't think the Raiders will pick up a QB since they have no ammunition to trade up for one. Or pick one in the first round for that matter.

TotallyScrewed
11-27-2011, 09:24 AM
I only hope that the FO works as a TEAM and no one guy (even an Elway) can make decisions on whom to draft.

They did reasonably well in 2011. I.e. They didn't screw up their first round pick by choosing a "maybe" player and not a player of need. I have no reason so far to believe that they'll be extremely stupid in 2012.

Is there a reason to believe that Denver won't be picking in the later halve of teams? Denver is tied with or has a better record than 17 of 32 teams at this point and with Chicago and Houston losing their QB's, Denver may fall further back in the draft.

The only reason to draft a QB in round #1, with as many holes as the Denver Broncos have through out their team, is if you believe that they need a QB immediately and the QBOTF is available at a reasonable price. I don't see either.

elsid13
11-27-2011, 09:34 AM
Griffin has spent much time in the shotgun and and not under center, which was a huge concern for some apparently about Tebow since he did the same in college and was not under center much then either.

I am talking about an offense that basically just wants the QB to be a pocket passer, hand the ball off most of the time and basically be a conservative type. If the team drafting Griffin has that philosophy, that would be a waste of his talents and he would not do so well. Not that he is a guaranteed success since plenty of QB's have come to the NFL passing the ball all over the place, but did nothing in the NFL.

I remember the Bills running a no huddle, shotgun offense with Jim Kelly for years. Of course it takes having surrounding talent to make it work and even if the Broncos took Griffin, they do not have the pieces right now to have a high octane offense to say the least.


The offense that Baylor runs (Air Raid) is short passing game system (very similar to the WCO) (link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_offense) , RGII is pocket passer first and foremost. Tebow ran a different system (option read) all together that based upon reading the defense end and running the ball first and foremost. The system are so different you can't compare the two.

broncocalijohn
11-27-2011, 09:51 AM
Barkley will almost surely go back, I doubt he will get more than a low 1st round grade, he stares down his 1st target like he just caught him sleeping with his sister, he throws an ugly spiral on medium and deep passes and his arm strength is not elite by any means, he really has to push the deep ball.

Obvious you have not seen much of barkley. As an usc fan, I was very critical of him this year and his past 2 years up until the notre dame game. He reads defenses well and LOOKS OFF his reads and goes to another option. Watch his games since ASU loss and tell me your opinion is the same. He might not stick around if his stock is top 5 or top 10 which it might be. If he stays, SC will be easy top 5 team next season. That team would be stacked.

montrose
11-27-2011, 10:13 AM
the reason i believe you are wrong about RG3 is because if Elway and Co. decide to go QB in the 1st round, it means they are reverting back to the pro style offense and are bringing in a guy better equipped to do it. by drafting RG3 you basically are running a college offense for the forseable future and as we all know, Elway is not too keen on doing that.

with the NFL rules slanted towards the passing game and all the advantages given to QBs it makes absolutely no sense to not take advantage of those rules. While i agree Tebow deserves another season to see what he can do and if he can improve, i believe he will only get that chance if he dramatically improves in his completion percentage and 3rd down conversion rate.

i see no scenario in which RG3 can become the number 1 pick for this team. in the 1st the cost is too high for a backup to Tebow, especially when the majority of college programs run the style of offense we are running now and there will be other options to do the same thing in the middle rounds. the cost is too great for a guy who does the same thing as a strong majority of QBs in most college programs. why pay a 1st for a guy whose main use in the Denver-Tebow offense is as a runner, when we can get a guy with the same skill set later in the draft? if the team decides the Tebow offense is the way for this franchise then we will see a QB in the middle rounds who ran the same style of offense who can backup Tim.

if we do go QB in the 1st round, it is going to be one of, Barkley(height may be an issue) Jones(I think he is going to slide), Foles, or Tannehill(i believe he will be climbing draft boards) if a QB is drafted, it is going to be a pro style QB and not a backup to Tim.

Good points all around and my current guess is that Elway will find a way to take Barkley, Jones, Tannenhill or Foles in the 1st round of this draft for the reasons you listed. My wish (again if I have to accept drafting a QB in round 1) is for RG3 as he brings the running dimension WITH accurate passing. In fact, I'm not so sure RG3 isn't the 2nd most accurate QB in the draft behind Luck.

The only problem here is that the Broncos gave up picks to move up and get Tebow in the 1st round. Now you want to give up more picks to move up and get another QB in the 1st round. Giving up so many picks to have two 1st round QB's in a 3 year span, not such a great move for a very young team trying to rebuild.

Nah, I think Elway has to ride this thing 1 more year, especially if Tebow wins at least 3 more games. You have to use that pick on BPA per their board (hopefully on defense) and you continue to build the right way. We'll see how things go the rest of the year. If we somehow make the playoffs, after Orton and crew dug such a deep hole, and Tebow and company were able to overcome that, it says alot about Tebow, the coaches, the defense and what kind of character this team is developing. It's been fun watching the past 5 weeks or so.

I agree, again the premise of the thread is if Elway's already made his mind up that he simply has to go QB in the 1st round.

Threads like this assume betting against TT vs bills, kc at home, the ponder vikings, a bad SD team, a Hanie qb bears team.

I don't think wins matter to Elway, the look on his face at the end of the Jets game said it all. Hell listen to the excitement in his voice after they beat the Bengals (at the time a bad team) because of a missed 2 point conversion and compare it to his tone after going into Oakland and smashing the Raiders for the 1st time in 2 years or going 95 yards to beat a Jets team that was in the AFCCG the last two weeks. Elway's within his rights to not believe this will work long term and go get his guy, even if I and many others disagree with him. Tebow could win and win all the way to the playoffs and even win a playoff game, and I still see Elway going QB in Rd1. Remember, this is the same organization that moved up for a QB in the 1st round following a trip to the AFC Title Game - so it's not totally without precedent. He could think "Wow we already improved the defense and running game enough to get to the playoffs with a QB who cant throw! Now we go complete the offense with that guy..." Again, I don't agree with it - but I'm not John Elway.

barryr
11-27-2011, 10:15 AM
The offense that Baylor runs (Air Raid) is short passing game system (very similar to the WCO) (link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_offense) , RGII is pocket passer first and foremost. Tebow ran a different system (option read) all together that based upon reading the defense end and running the ball first and foremost. The system are so different you can't compare the two.

Um, my point was Griffin spends most of the time in the shotgun, so questions about his ability be under center will be there if he goes to a team running a more conventional offense. No where did I compare systems.

TheReverend
11-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Sorry for the delay in seeing this. Been a busy holiday week.

I'd tell you why you're wrong, but I think you're absolutely right. I think he's exactly who Elway wants with Luck now out of reach without mortgaging the franchise.

Here's why I think Elway is wrong though:

-As has been mentioned: He's small

-He plays at Baylor

-Though this year's been amazing, it's the only one above a "pretty good" quality. Been bitten by Clay Matthews with that standard, but generally it pays to avoid "one year wonders"... especially with what's potentially a a very top draft pick

-Kendall Wright. Kid can FLY, makes some awesome catches and has put up a ridiculously good season. A go to player like that rolling coverage along with what RGIII brings to the table himself makes for special numbers. The two are far from codependent or biproducts of the other, but both have complimented each other extremely well.

The Joker
11-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Montrose, what do you think would happen if Tebow won Fox over 100% and Fox was eager to move forward with him and build an offense to best utilize his strengths?

Basically, do you think Elway would force a new QB on Fox against his will?

Armchair Bronco
11-27-2011, 10:32 AM
What's the likelihood that JAX moves to LA? Because if they stay in Florida for even the next 2 or 3 years, they can sell out their stadium if Tebow is their starter.

I still think JAX is a possible landing zone for Tebow. I think everyone underestimated his popularity at the NFL level. If it's all about money, why wouldn't JAX want him on their squad?

elsid13
11-27-2011, 10:34 AM
What's the likelihood that JAX moves to LA? Because if they stay in Florida for even the next 2 or 3 years, they can sell out their stadium if Tebow is their starter.

I still think JAX is a possible landing zone for Tebow. I think everyone underestimated his popularity at the NFL level. If it's all about money, why wouldn't JAX want him on their squad?

because they just drafted a QB, and they moved up to get him. They aren't trading for Tebow.

Armchair Bronco
11-27-2011, 10:36 AM
because they just drafted a QB, and they moved up to get him. They aren't trading for Tebow.

But they still are selling out home games, right?

If Tebow were on the squad, they'd sell out.

OrangeSe7en
11-27-2011, 10:41 AM
But they still are selling out home games, right?

If Tebow were on the squad, they'd sell out.

Considering they could have had Tebow in the draft (when they were also not selling out games), they've obviously made their peace with not selling out games. Who is to say they don't want to move the team?

HAT
11-27-2011, 10:48 AM
because they just drafted a QB, and they moved up to get him. They aren't trading for Tebow.

Gabbert is dead last in most every QB stat among qualified leaders. They wouldn't give up on him by drafting another QB but don't think for a second that they wouldn't replace him under the right circumstances.

Tebow could be the right circumstances. If Jax is sitting around #5 and Elway came calling for that pick so he can draft a Barkley....Why wouldn't Jax consider it? Jax would only be swapping 1st round picks & not losing one.

Jax can want to move to LA all they want but they are a longshot.

DBroncos4life
11-27-2011, 10:48 AM
I like how it's only fake Broncos fans that are hell bent with Tebow getting out of Denver and to a Florida team to boot. Ha!

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 10:58 AM
Sorry for the delay in seeing this. Been a busy holiday week.

I'd tell you why you're wrong, but I think you're absolutely right. I think he's exactly who Elway wants with Luck now out of reach without mortgaging the franchise.

Here's why I think Elway is wrong though:

-As has been mentioned: He's small

-He plays at Baylor

-Though this year's been amazing, it's the only one above a "pretty good" quality. Been bitten by Clay Matthews with that standard, but generally it pays to avoid "one year wonders"... especially with what's potentially a a very top draft pick

-Kendall Wright. Kid can FLY, makes some awesome catches and has put up a ridiculously good season. A go to player like that rolling coverage along with what RGIII brings to the table himself makes for special numbers. The two are far from codependent or biproducts of the other, but both have complimented each other extremely well.

This is not Griffin's only good season. He has been a handful his entire career. People said the same stuff about Von Miller. Not because its true, but because they were unaware.

Griffin will certainly be out of reach where the Broncos pick. After people see what a freak athlete the guy is at the combine, I wouldnt be surprised if there is buzz that he gets taken first overall.

Arkie
11-27-2011, 11:11 AM
Give Tebow a full offseason/season as the starter to develop. Re-evaluate the QB situation and decide if a QB should be taken in the 1st round in 2013.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:13 AM
Give Tebow a full offseason/season as the starter to develop. Re-evaluate the QB situation and decide if a QB should be taken in the 1st round in 2013.

I think this is the wisest approach.

TheReverend
11-27-2011, 11:14 AM
This is not Griffin's only good season. He has been a handful his entire career. People said the same stuff about Von Miller. Not because its true, but because they were unaware.

Griffin will certainly be out of reach where the Broncos pick. After people see what a freak athlete the guy is at the combine, I wouldnt be surprised if there is buzz that he gets taken first overall.

::)

Re-read it. I didn't say it was his only good season. I said it was his only above that level.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Re-read it. I didn't say it was his only good season. I said it was his only above that level.

What do you mean by that?

He has been one of the best playmakers in the NCAA over his entire tenure at Baylor.

Play2win
11-27-2011, 11:17 AM
All I know is that I watched Barkley last night, I'll watch Tebow today, both on big stages. It will be interesting to see how Tebow compares to Matt Barkley.

Chris
11-27-2011, 11:19 AM
The Broncos will be picking too far back to pick Griffin.

His stock will remain high as he shows well for the rest of the season and then when his measurables stand out.

He's a sprinter. Like track guy sprinter.

Thought he was a former hurdler.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:19 AM
All I know is that I watched Barkley last night, I'll watch Tebow today, both on big stages. It will be interesting to see how Tebow compares to Matt Barkley.

Yeah, um...I wouldn't really call a college game against UCLA much of a big stage. You're California dreamin'.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:22 AM
Thought he was a former hurdler.

People have said that he's capable of running a 4.4 40.

But youre right...he apparently set state records in the 110 and 300 meter hurdles and has the Big 12 gold medal.

TheReverend
11-27-2011, 11:47 AM
What do you mean by that?

He has been one of the best playmakers in the NCAA over his entire tenure at Baylor.

I find it extremely hard to believe you typed that with a straight face.

montrose
11-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Montrose, what do you think would happen if Tebow won Fox over 100% and Fox was eager to move forward with him and build an offense to best utilize his strengths?

Basically, do you think Elway would force a new QB on Fox against his will?

Yes I do.

I still think JAX is a possible landing zone for Tebow. I think everyone underestimated his popularity at the NFL level. If it's all about money, why wouldn't JAX want him on their squad?

I get why everyone keeps linking Tebow to JAX (hometown, struggling to sell tix, Gabbert sucks, etc.) It will not happen as long as he wants to play QB. They reached on a DT most had pegged in the late 1st to early 2nd instead of Tebow and countless insiders (including Stink and Cecil locally) reported Jax had one of the lowest grades in the entire league on Tebow. Now if Tim wanted to play TE I could see it, but not at QB.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:51 AM
I find it extremely hard to believe you typed that with a straight face.

Maybe you should stick to the facts and quit with the ad hominem.

Quit with the hypersensitive overreactions.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Yes I do.

Why would you believe that?

Fox is an experienced head coach and Elway is a rookie VP...he's technically not even the GM.

yerner
11-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Gabbert is dead last in most every QB stat among qualified leaders. They wouldn't give up on him by drafting another QB but don't think for a second that they wouldn't replace him under the right circumstances.

Tebow could be the right circumstances. If Jax is sitting around #5 and Elway came calling for that pick so he can draft a Barkley....Why wouldn't Jax consider it? Jax would only be swapping 1st round picks & not losing one.

Jax can want to move to LA all they want but they are a longshot.

That is just not happening.

TheReverend
11-27-2011, 12:00 PM
Maybe you should stick to the facts and quit with the ad hominem.

Quit with the hypersensitive overreactions.

....facts?

You claimed that:

"He has been one of the best playmakers in the NCAA over his entire tenure at Baylor."

Meanwhile, he hasn't even been able to get All Big 12 honors.

Sorry drama, you're the sensitive one that makes **** up. This is reality. He's been "good" in the past, but this is his first venture into anything beyond that.

ColoradoDarin
11-27-2011, 12:01 PM
Why would you believe that?

Fox is an experienced head coach and Elway is a rookie VP...he's technically not even the GM.

I don't think Elway can override all 3 of Xanders, Fox and Bowlen.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:06 PM
....facts?

You claimed that:

"He has been one of the best playmakers in the NCAA over his entire tenure at Baylor."

Meanwhile, he hasn't even been able to get All Big 12 honors.


Um...he was all-Big 12 last year, genius. Ha!


Sorry drama, you're the sensitive one that makes **** up. This is reality. He's been "good" in the past, but this is his first venture into anything beyond that.

Quit being hypersensitive. For goodness sake, sack up son.

DrFate
11-27-2011, 12:13 PM
After people see what a freak athlete the guy is at the combine, I wouldnt be surprised if there is buzz that he gets taken first overall.

Until they measure him and find out he's six foot tall. Then he falls like a rock.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:15 PM
Until they measure him and find out he's six foot tall. Then he falls like a rock.

He's listed at 6'2", but I wouldnt be surprised if that was high.

DrFate
11-27-2011, 12:23 PM
He's listed at 6'2", but I wouldnt be surprised if that was high.

That's kinda my point. You can't argue with his onfield production this year, but you have to look at the whole package. To me, he LOOKS small (shorter than ideal, lighter than ideal, etc.)

None of these mean 'he can't succeed in the NFL' - but I believe his frame will hurt his draft position. I still don't see him going any higher than the 4th QB off the board (assuming both Jones and Barkley come out). And I'm not that high on any of them. I think this whole class could be very disappointing, QB-wise.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:29 PM
That's kinda my point. You can't argue with his onfield production this year, but you have to look at the whole package. To me, he LOOKS small (shorter than ideal, lighter than ideal, etc.)

None of these mean 'he can't succeed in the NFL' - but I believe his frame will hurt his draft position. I still don't see him going any higher than the 4th QB off the board (assuming both Jones and Barkley come out). And I'm not that high on any of them. I think this whole class could be very disappointing, QB-wise.

Im an OU guy and Im not sold on Jones. To me, Jones is another Orton. That may not be bad if he is better mentally than Orton was, but I'd rather have Tebow than Jones.

montrose
11-27-2011, 12:31 PM
Sorry for the delay in seeing this. Been a busy holiday week.

I'd tell you why you're wrong, but I think you're absolutely right. I think he's exactly who Elway wants with Luck now out of reach without mortgaging the franchise.

Here's why I think Elway is wrong though:

-As has been mentioned: He's small

-He plays at Baylor

-Though this year's been amazing, it's the only one above a "pretty good" quality. Been bitten by Clay Matthews with that standard, but generally it pays to avoid "one year wonders"... especially with what's potentially a a very top draft pick

-Kendall Wright. Kid can FLY, makes some awesome catches and has put up a ridiculously good season. A go to player like that rolling coverage along with what RGIII brings to the table himself makes for special numbers. The two are far from codependent or biproducts of the other, but both have complimented each other extremely well.

Great points, per the usual.

DrFate
11-27-2011, 12:41 PM
Im an OU guy and Im not sold on Jones. To me, Jones is another Orton. That may not be bad if he is better mentally than Orton was, but I'd rather have Tebow than Jones.

I've made an effort to watch a couple OU games just to watch Jones and I'm not sold. He's tall and he's get a decent arm - but he's got a long release, he's a statue, and he's got great skill positions in a pass-it-all-the-time offense to boost his number. I've seen him compared to Bledsoe, but Bledsoe had a pretty quick release and a stronger arm.

The more I watch these QBs the more I think there is a ton of hype in this class.

TheReverend
11-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Um...he was all-Big 12 last year, genius. Ha!

Quit being hypersensitive. For goodness sake, sack up son.

No... no, he wasn't.

Weeden was. Griffin was 2nd team in the BIG 12 FFS.

...is that your definition of one of the NCAA's best play-makers? Ha!

Like I said, nothing more than "pretty good".

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:55 PM
No... no, he wasn't.

Weeden was. Griffin was 2nd team in the BIG 12 FFS.

...is that your definition of one of the NCAA's best play-makers?

Like I said, nothing more than "pretty good".

Yeah...second team all-big 12 is not all-big 12, eh?

You keep on keepin' on, man. Yikes!

If you move those goal posts enough times you might finally be able to hit a chip shot yourself.

TheReverend
11-27-2011, 12:58 PM
Yeah...second team all-big 12 is not all-big 12, eh?

You keep on keepin' on, man. Yikes!

If you move those goal posts enough times you might finally be able to hit a chip shot yourself.

"Stop being so hypersensitive man"

Just answer the question... do you feel being 2nd team in the Big 12 = being one of the "biggest play-makers in the NCAA"?

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 12:59 PM
I've made an effort to watch a couple OU games just to watch Jones and I'm not sold. He's tall and he's get a decent arm - but he's got a long release, he's a statue, and he's got great skill positions in a pass-it-all-the-time offense to boost his number. I've seen him compared to Bledsoe, but Bledsoe had a pretty quick release and a stronger arm.

The more I watch these QBs the more I think there is a ton of hype in this class.

Luck is overhyped. There is no if ands or buts about that. He may be an excellent prospect, but he is overhyped. He'll never be able to live up to expectations because people have attributed Chuck Norrissness to him.

DrFate
11-27-2011, 01:06 PM
Luck is overhyped. There is no if ands or buts about that. He may be an excellent prospect, but he is overhyped. He'll never be able to live up to expectations because people have attributed Chuck Norrissness to him.

The more people watch the more people don't like.

More than anything Luck 'looks the part'. He's tall, he's picture perfect throwing the ball, he's got good wheels. People watch his film and they think 'that's what an NFL quarterback should look like'.

In other words, he's the anti-Tebow (yeah, I said it) :)

I think Luck may be a fine NFL quarterback. But the hype he's gotten is over the top. And everyone is looking for an 'almost Luck' in this class, a 'near miss' guy who can be the clear #2.

They've tried Jones, they've tried Barkley, and some have tried RG3. All these guys are fine players. But all you need to do is take a step back and look at the QBs taken last year - Newton has some skills but isn't winning, Gabbert looks terrible, Ponder has shown promise but isn't tearing up the league, and Locker hasn't gotten off the bench except when Hasslebeck got dinged. So you have have all kinds of guys get hyped/drafted, doesn't mean you'll have success.

epicSocialism4tw
11-27-2011, 01:16 PM
The more people watch the more people don't like.

More than anything Luck 'looks the part'. He's tall, he's picture perfect throwing the ball, he's got good wheels. People watch his film and they think 'that's what an NFL quarterback should look like'.

In other words, he's the anti-Tebow (yeah, I said it) :)

I think Luck may be a fine NFL quarterback. But the hype he's gotten is over the top. And everyone is looking for an 'almost Luck' in this class, a 'near miss' guy who can be the clear #2.

They've tried Jones, they've tried Barkley, and some have tried RG3. All these guys are fine players. But all you need to do is take a step back and look at the QBs taken last year - Newton has some skills but isn't winning, Gabbert looks terrible, Ponder has shown promise but isn't tearing up the league, and Locker hasn't gotten off the bench except when Hasslebeck got dinged. So you have have all kinds of guys get hyped/drafted, doesn't mean you'll have success.

I agree with all of that.

DrFate
11-27-2011, 01:18 PM
I agree with all of that.

^5

broncosteven
11-27-2011, 01:43 PM
Since there is very strong chance that RGIII goes back for another year (he is already enrolled in Baylor's Law School) I wouldn't be to worried about it.

Sounds like a smart kid!