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jutang
11-25-2011, 03:36 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/25/broncos-miller-fined-25000-for-hit-on-jets-sanchez/10876/

For the second time this season Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller has been fined by the NFL for a hit on an opposing quarterback.

Miller was fined $25,000 for a hit on Jets’ quarterback Mark Sanchez in the Broncos’ Nov. 17 win over New York in in Sports Authority Field at Mile High. Specifically Miller was cited for “roughing the passer” and striking an opposing quarterback in the chest area with his helmet.” Miller was also penalized as a repeat offender this season.

Miller was also fined $15,000 for his fourth quarter hit on Raiders quarterback Carson Palmer in the Broncos’ Nov. 6 win in Oakland.

The league cited Miller for striking Palmer in the chest area with his helmet on that play as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Really annoying that quality defensive plays are getting fined. Fine was not b/c Miller was late, but b/c his helmet hit the QB in the chest. So defensive players cannot hit the QB in the helmet, below the waist, and now in the chest. That leaves hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...

cabronco
11-25-2011, 03:39 PM
It's going to come down to putting two flags on the Qb. And if you make him fall down, auto-fine & pending suspension ! WTH

DBroncos4life
11-25-2011, 03:39 PM
The NFL is creating bad guys.

jhns
11-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Goodell is horrible for the NFL.

LaneLosh2
11-25-2011, 03:43 PM
Good defensive players know how to avoid penalties like that

Agamemnon
11-25-2011, 03:45 PM
I really hate the direction the NFL is going anymore. QB's are football players too aren't they?

NUB
11-25-2011, 03:54 PM
Really annoying that quality defensive plays are getting fined. Fine was not b/c Miller was late, but b/c his helmet hit the QB in the chest. So defensive players cannot hit the QB in the helmet, below the waist, and now in the chest. That leaves hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...

Even though there is a rule book with loose definitions, there does not appear to be any standard at all. Players get "away" with hard hits sometimes, and other times take a flag for breathing on a QB after he's gotten rid of the ball. What's amazing is that players are getting fined for plays they were not even flagged on.

RhymesayersDU
11-25-2011, 04:00 PM
What a selfish, classless, dirty player.

I wouldn't pay him big money.

Baba Booey
11-25-2011, 04:02 PM
Goodell:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1618/1321594569963.jpg

Agamemnon
11-25-2011, 04:05 PM
Even though there is a rule book with loose definitions, there does not appear to be any standard at all. Players get "away" with hard hits sometimes, and other times take a flag for breathing on a QB after he's gotten rid of the ball. What's amazing is that players are getting fined for plays they were not even flagged on.

Just look at all the nasty hits Tebow has taken that would normally be called with other QBs, but with him the refs just shrug and ignore it. No consistency at all.

Kaylore
11-25-2011, 04:07 PM
Mike Florio, the contemtable douche, made a point of pointing out the play to the world, all but begging the NFL to fine him.

jutang
11-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Even though there is a rule book with loose definitions, there does not appear to be any standard at all. Players get "away" with hard hits sometimes, and other times take a flag for breathing on a QB after he's gotten rid of the ball. What's amazing is that players are getting fined for plays they were not even flagged on.


Agreed. The NFL is just was too vague on why they fine and the amount that they fine. If they really took time to explain which rule was exactly broken instead of vague references of "helmet hit to the chest," then it wouldn't be as infuriating. They probably can't come up with any sort of definition and keep making up with fines that feel justified.

I'm not even sure how this has any legal standing. At my work place, I would love to dock people's pay at times. There's no way in hell I could get away with it. Only good thing about this is that the fines go to charity. Someone should double check and make sure it's not some Goodell Foundation for little boys.

RhymesayersDU
11-25-2011, 04:22 PM
I"m not even sure how this has any legal standing. At my work place, I would love to dock people's pay at times. There's no way in hell I could get away with it. Only good thing about this is that the fines go to charity. Someone should double check and make sure it's not some Goodell Foundation for little boys.

It's collectively bargained upon. If you agree to that with your employees, you too can fine them.

oubronco
11-25-2011, 04:23 PM
Even though there is a rule book with loose definitions, there does not appear to be any standard at all. Players get "away" with hard hits sometimes, and other times take a flag for breathing on a QB after he's gotten rid of the ball. What's amazing is that players are getting fined for plays they were not even flagged on.

It all depends on the team and QB

Kaylore
11-25-2011, 04:24 PM
It all depends on the team and QB

No doubt. New York team on NFL network and you pretty much can't do anything.

GreatBronco16
11-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Hmmm, but they didn't think to fine him for the shot in the back he gave Sanchez when he got nearly 3 steps after he threw the ball?

fdf
11-25-2011, 05:55 PM
Really annoying that quality defensive plays are getting fined. Fine was not b/c Miller was late, but b/c his helmet hit the QB in the chest. So defensive players cannot hit the QB in the helmet, below the waist, and now in the chest. That leaves hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...

They are going to Kennoy Kennedy him pretty soon. He will be unable to tackle anyone without a fine. Kennedy wasn't much of a loss to league PC. Miller would be.

Jetmeck
11-25-2011, 06:04 PM
Just look at all the nasty hits Tebow has taken that would normally be called with other QBs, but with him the refs just shrug and ignore it. No consistency at all.

yup

IHaveALight
11-25-2011, 06:19 PM
Hmmm, but they didn't think to fine him for the shot in the back he gave Sanchez when he got nearly 3 steps after he threw the ball?

I have a theory about these hits by Miller that look late but don't get penalty's...
He's just so damn quick that in live action it doesn't look late at all but when you put it in slow motion you see him taking two+ steps after the ball is in the air. And if my theory is correct then I agree that he shouldn't be flagged / fined for that as those few steps only take a split second and he couldn't redirect anyway.

Popps
11-25-2011, 06:22 PM
It's going to come down to putting two flags on the Qb. And if you make him fall down, auto-fine & pending suspension ! WTH

Honestly, I'm all for player safety... and I think some of the new rules are legit. I also don't go for the all-or-nothing rhetoric much... but I do think you're right in this case. We're literally getting close to the point where simply making contact with the QB is going to be a foul.

broncolife
11-25-2011, 06:42 PM
What about the little turd that took 5 steps and hit Tebow after he handed off.

Turd_Ferguson
11-25-2011, 06:53 PM
Mike Florio, the contemtable douche, made a point of pointing out the play to the world, all but begging the NFL to fine him.

I can barely stand to read his articles on this subject... He is an incredibly arrogant a hole when it comes to this subject. Its infuriating to read. The inconsistency is ridiculous.. Was Dawkins fined for his hit on the receiver that was flagged during the Jets game? Sometimes Hits are flagged but not fined, and other times they are not flagged, but are fined. NO CONSISTENCY.

beardedwonder
11-25-2011, 06:53 PM
It's a parking ticket for him

Bronx33
11-25-2011, 06:59 PM
**** it.

DenverBound
11-25-2011, 07:07 PM
It's collectively bargained upon. If you agree to that with your employees, you too can fine them.

NFL players are not employees. They're under contract. Its a whole different world when dealing with contractors.

Lestat
11-25-2011, 07:15 PM
see this is exactly why there should be a independent force to oversee this stuff. once he makes up his mind you're just boned and there is no oversight.

Spider
11-25-2011, 07:16 PM
Honestly, I'm all for player safety... and I think some of the new rules are legit. I also don't go for the all-or-nothing rhetoric much... but I do think you're right in this case. We're literally getting close to the point where simply making contact with the QB is going to be a foul.

agreed , this is a bogus fine .......

spdirty
11-25-2011, 07:31 PM
I really despise Goodell. He's bad for the league. Helmet to helmet I understand, and agree with, but now it's just getting ridiculous.

Atwater couldn't play in this league. In fact, we might have lost Super Bowl 32 had it been played under these rules. Just disgusting.

Rolandftw
11-25-2011, 09:23 PM
If he was fined for the hit on Sanchez from behind, which was late and where he led with his helmet... I can see why. It wasn't terribly late, but I can at least see the league's perspective on this.

If it's the hit near the end of the game, then it's total BS tho.

cutthemdown
11-25-2011, 09:32 PM
as long as he doesn't get a flag or suspension its all good.

That One Guy
11-25-2011, 09:34 PM
Mike Florio, the contemtable douche, made a point of pointing out the play to the world, all but begging the NFL to fine him.

Double edged sword there. They're also leading the charge for Miller to get DROY.

One of the things I dislike about PFT (though it's almost my sole source for football info aside from the Mane and watching games) is that over the past few years, he's seemed to try to throw his weight and he'll harp on a topic just so that when it gets picked up or something happens, he can gloat in that they've mentioned it before. No doubt he's made himself a force in the football media world but he's sometimes arrogant about it.

That One Guy
11-25-2011, 09:37 PM
I really despise Goodell. He's bad for the league. Helmet to helmet I understand, and agree with, but now it's just getting ridiculous.

Atwater couldn't play in this league. In fact, we might have lost Super Bowl 32 had it been played under these rules. Just disgusting.

It could be Goodell, it could be that player lawsuits keep increasing in frequency. It's well known players will blow each other up for the Sportscenter segment but then ex-players want to sue the league for the results.

And I'm personally more disappointed in the hits on the WRs being penalized than the QB hits. You're just taking your shot at the QB so if you're late, you pay the price. They generally can pull up. The hits on WRs can influence a game and players are having to pull up now. They're almost forced to let the player make the catch now and that's disappointing.

BroncoMan4ever
11-25-2011, 10:40 PM
i like that we have a guy like Miller who is collecting fines for nasty hits(that were legal just viscious)

it is great having a guy who will strike fear into the opposition. Bowlen needs to pick up the tab on these fines and tell Miller to keep laying the lumber.

theAPAOps5
11-25-2011, 11:39 PM
Pretty soon it is going to be Freeze Tag on the QB. You touch him with two hands, 15 yard penalty.

I hate what Goodell has done to this part of the game. Douche bags like Suh deserve these fines not Miller.

The sad thing is Art Shell is the one who reviews the plays and recommends the fines. Kind of ironic with the history of the Raiders.

Kaylore
11-25-2011, 11:46 PM
Double edged sword there. They're also leading the charge for Miller to get DROY.

One of the things I dislike about PFT (though it's almost my sole source for football info aside from the Mane and watching games) is that over the past few years, he's seemed to try to throw his weight and he'll harp on a topic just so that when it gets picked up or something happens, he can gloat in that they've mentioned it before. No doubt he's made himself a force in the football media world but he's sometimes arrogant about it.

You're absolutely right. He points out everything and then goes back and toots his own horn. Blahhhh.

I will say, during the lockout they were THE best source for news.

Atwater His Ass
11-25-2011, 11:51 PM
i like that we have a guy like Miller who is collecting fines for nasty hits(that were legal just viscious)

it is great having a guy who will strike fear into the opposition. Bowlen needs to pick up the tab on these fines and tell Miller to keep laying the lumber.

The fact that he's being fined means the hits were illegal, regardless of if a flag was thrown or not.

He's going to have to learn when to reel it in, less he ends up getting a suspension.

Not to mention that if he develops a reputation for himself as a dirty player, he'll start seeing a lot more 15 yarders from the officials on grey area plays.

epicSocialism4tw
11-26-2011, 01:16 AM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/25/broncos-miller-fined-25000-for-hit-on-jets-sanchez/10876/

For the second time this season Broncos rookie linebacker Von Miller has been fined by the NFL for a hit on an opposing quarterback.

Miller was fined $25,000 for a hit on Jets’ quarterback Mark Sanchez in the Broncos’ Nov. 17 win over New York in in Sports Authority Field at Mile High. Specifically Miller was cited for “roughing the passer” and striking an opposing quarterback in the chest area with his helmet.” Miller was also penalized as a repeat offender this season.

Miller was also fined $15,000 for his fourth quarter hit on Raiders quarterback Carson Palmer in the Broncos’ Nov. 6 win in Oakland.

The league cited Miller for striking Palmer in the chest area with his helmet on that play as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Really annoying that quality defensive plays are getting fined. Fine was not b/c Miller was late, but b/c his helmet hit the QB in the chest. So defensive players cannot hit the QB in the helmet, below the waist, and now in the chest. That leaves hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...hmmm...

Ridiculous.

The NFL has become FIFA.

TomServo
11-26-2011, 01:48 AM
i said it in last weeks v miller thread. he's lucky he-we didnt called for a late hit. i miss the days of atwater and ds49 knocking people stupid too. i still remember ds49 hitting roosevelt potts of the colts so hard, potts was wandering to the broncos sideline. those days are gone. get used to it. lest v miller be labeled and targeted like SUH.

Doggcow
11-26-2011, 02:34 AM
Goodell:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1618/1321594569963.jpg

ROFLMAO BEST PICTURE EVER

Broncbow
11-26-2011, 06:45 AM
Pocket passers are not football players, NFL strickly prohibits their pretty boys from being hit.

Punisher
11-26-2011, 07:50 AM
I think it's becoming mandatory to have a separate bank account for fines if your a play maker on defense

McDman
11-26-2011, 07:51 AM
What about the little turd that took 5 steps and hit Tebow after he handed off.

If I remember correctly it was on an option run, he is treated as a ball carrier.

Tim
11-26-2011, 08:13 AM
I hope the fines don't discourage miller's intensity on QB's

Jason in LA
11-26-2011, 08:32 AM
I'm all in favor of creating rules for player safety, and I have no issue with the helmet to helmet rules or the rules for hitting the QB, but the way they enforce those rules just don't make any sense at times. They go way too far enforcing them.

With the helmet to helmet rule, there are a lot of plays where the defender led with his shoulder, but the helmets collided on impact. That shouldn't be a fine. That's just bumping heads. And it's annoying to see a defender flagged for that when he aimed well below the helmet, but the receiver's helmet came downward into the defender's helmet (like in my avatar). How can a defender avoid a player who is coming down to his level? I see plays where a defender pretty much headbutts the receiver in the helmet, and that should be flagged and fined. But a lot of those hits, that's just football.

As for the QB, helmet to the chest? Really? That's BS.

Garcia Bronco
11-26-2011, 09:00 AM
awwwwe did the sanchise get hurt a little. ****ing bull****.

Broncos4tw
11-26-2011, 09:23 AM
Good defensive players know how to avoid penalties like that

First of all, he is a rookie - he will make mistakes.

Second, the issue isn't penalties. Penalties are fine. The FINES are ridiculous. For example, I don't even remember who it was.. but got a penalty for hitting the QB at 3 steps. Ok.. that's a penalty, agreed. Then he got.. fined? WTH for? That's what penalties are for!

Are they going to start fining for facemasks? Maybe make a list of fines associated with penalties. 5k for offsides, 10k for holding, etc.

I can't tell if he is trying to earn extra revenue for the NFL, or utterly wussify the league with many of these new fines.

Shotgun Willie
11-26-2011, 09:45 AM
I always love the whole "leading with the helmet" thing. Technically, if you're standing straight up, you are "leading with the helmet" because by definition it sticks out farther than any other part of the body......with the possible exception of the nose tackles.

Chris
11-26-2011, 09:50 AM
This happens for two reasons

- The NFL wants to protect itself from getting sued by players long term
- Quarterbacks are the core of the business. If Sanchez goes down, the Jets go down (well maybe not given how badly he's playing... but you know what I mean)

Cosmo
11-26-2011, 09:52 AM
The part that is bothering me is that these plays are not flagged in the game. Miller is literally moving too fast for the refs to think these are late hits or helmet to helmet or anything bad. But when you can slow motion the play its all of the sudden illegal? Stupid Goddell

That One Guy
11-26-2011, 10:19 AM
This happens for two reasons

- The NFL wants to protect itself from getting sued by players long term
- Quarterbacks are the core of the business. If Sanchez goes down, the Jets go down (well maybe not given how badly he's playing... but you know what I mean)

Agreed. The logic is just solidified by how poorly the Colts are playing this year. Star QBs go down, attendance and viewership could go too.

cutthemdown
11-26-2011, 10:58 AM
If I remember correctly it was on an option run, he is treated as a ball carrier.

So even after he hands ball off you can still drill him. Why is that? No other qbs get hit after they hand off and don't have ball. The option is just another way of handing the ball off period. Once Tebow has handed it off they should not be allowed to hit him any later then you would if he had passed the ball.

The play in question though, IMO was not a foul. The player hit Tebow right after he handed it off which IMO is good football.

Tim
11-26-2011, 11:01 AM
"shoot first and ask questions later"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/25/von-miller-fined-25000-for-hit-on-mark-sanchez/

cutthemdown
11-26-2011, 11:01 AM
Agreed. The logic is just solidified by how poorly the Colts are playing this year. Star QBs go down, attendance and viewership could go too.

Yep but the real point is you change the rules, you try and make it safer, but more QBS the every before go down. Also we have 2-3 good rbs out for the yr because of concussions. It hasn't made it safer or cut down on injuries. Notice they haven't come out and said serious head and neck injuries are down 7% or anything like that? Trust me they have crunched those numbers and they just don't pain a good picture, so they aren't telling.

If I was in charge, and i changed rules, i would for sure have someone crunch those numbers, so i know Goddell has.

Games not safer, players still get injured just as much, but you added ambiguity and referee judgement as major elements of who wins a football game. Total fail by Goodell.

That One Guy
11-26-2011, 12:45 PM
So even after he hands ball off you can still drill him. Why is that? No other qbs get hit after they hand off and don't have ball. The option is just another way of handing the ball off period. Once Tebow has handed it off they should not be allowed to hit him any later then you would if he had passed the ball.

The play in question though, IMO was not a foul. The player hit Tebow right after he handed it off which IMO is good football.

The benefit of the option is that the QB can keep the ball and run after the fake handoff. There can be absolutely no protection for him as a QB in that facet.

That One Guy
11-26-2011, 12:47 PM
Yep but the real point is you change the rules, you try and make it safer, but more QBS the every before go down. Also we have 2-3 good rbs out for the yr because of concussions. It hasn't made it safer or cut down on injuries. Notice they haven't come out and said serious head and neck injuries are down 7% or anything like that? Trust me they have crunched those numbers and they just don't pain a good picture, so they aren't telling.

If I was in charge, and i changed rules, i would for sure have someone crunch those numbers, so i know Goddell has.

Games not safer, players still get injured just as much, but you added ambiguity and referee judgement as major elements of who wins a football game. Total fail by Goodell.

That's because it's litigation protection. If they are aware a problem exists but ignore it, they can be liable. If they attempted resolutions and they failed, at least they can make a claim they weren't negligent. The NFL probably doesn't much care about injuries, they just need to appear to be doing something. If injuries DO actually go down, there's good publicity in that too so they wouldn't mind. They're just not losing any sleep over any of it.

BroncoMan4ever
11-26-2011, 11:51 PM
The fact that he's being fined means the hits were illegal, regardless of if a flag was thrown or not.

He's going to have to learn when to reel it in, less he ends up getting a suspension.

Not to mention that if he develops a reputation for himself as a dirty player, he'll start seeing a lot more 15 yarders from the officials on grey area plays.

the hit he should have been fined for isn't the one he drew the fine for doing. that hit to the back that was late, had that been fined then i would have said no big deal, but just a viscious hit that had helmet contact was a bull**** fine. look at the hit, it isn't illegal, he did not spear Sanchez, he drove through him and his helmet hit him as well.

that was a bull**** fine and not a dirty hit.

if Miller does begin to reel it in and lay off then he wouldn't be the same player. his intensity and ferocity is what is turning him into a premier player in the league, take that away and you simply have a good OLB, and not a guy with potential for a HOF career.

Broncos4tw
11-26-2011, 11:57 PM
This happens for two reasons

- The NFL wants to protect itself from getting sued by players long term
- Quarterbacks are the core of the business. If Sanchez goes down, the Jets go down (well maybe not given how badly he's playing... but you know what I mean)

Really? When has a player sued the NFL for a hit by another player? This is common or something?

Yes.. protecting your QB is important. It's sort of the point of getting a solid line. It used to be that a team that didn't invest in a line would pay the consequences via their QBs being in greater danger. Not any more though. I imagine many defensive players are leery of doing more than a light touch to certain QBs. They are now "untouchable." Utter bullcrap. How anyone can defend this new wussy league baffles me. They get paid MILLIONS of dollars to play 16 whole games a year. OMG! They USED to get paid because it was a dangerous sport. Now it's becoming very "safe." It's pathetic.

ZONA
11-27-2011, 12:11 AM
I said this once and I'll say it again. The way Miller has been hitting the QB is how it should be done. Yes his helmet hit the QB's chest. But he was not spearing at all. He had arms open and wrapped the QB. Did not spin and whip QB's to ground or drive them into ground. He simply (dare I say) tackled them. If I'm a QB, and I know I'm playing in the NFL and the hits are definitely coming, I'll take Miller's type of hit any day of the week vs a player diving at my legs, grabbing and spin throwing me into the turf, or cracking my helmet with his.

Doggcow
11-27-2011, 12:27 AM
Really? When has a player sued the NFL for a hit by another player? This is common or something?

Yes.. protecting your QB is important. It's sort of the point of getting a solid line. It used to be that a team that didn't invest in a line would pay the consequences via their QBs being in greater danger. Not any more though. I imagine many defensive players are leery of doing more than a light touch to certain QBs. They are now "untouchable." Utter bullcrap. How anyone can defend this new wussy league baffles me. They get paid MILLIONS of dollars to play 16 whole games a year. OMG! They USED to get paid because it was a dangerous sport. Now it's becoming very "safe." It's pathetic.

Agreed... If you want to protect your QB, protect them with your Oline...

Broncos dude
11-27-2011, 12:16 PM
Steve Atwater would not even be considered for the HOF if he played with these rules... Days of hard hitting safetys like Atwater and Dennis Smith are over. Heck, he would be banned from the league after that awesome hit in the SB against Green Bay, about killing 2 players.. Its a shame football has come to this.

McDman
11-27-2011, 12:19 PM
So even after he hands ball off you can still drill him. Why is that? No other qbs get hit after they hand off and don't have ball. The option is just another way of handing the ball off period. Once Tebow has handed it off they should not be allowed to hit him any later then you would if he had passed the ball.

The play in question though, IMO was not a foul. The player hit Tebow right after he handed it off which IMO is good football.

My guess is because he is trying to sell that he also may have the ball. The defender could just say he bit on the fake.

Most regular handoffs happen with the QB way in the backfield but you will see them occasionally get hit.