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DrFate
11-24-2011, 07:15 AM
Suppose the Broncos finish at 8-8 (I'm just picking a number).

Rather than looking for opinions on what Elway SHOULD do, what does your gut say he WILL do re: the QB position as a whole? (FA, draft, trade / Tebow/Quinn/Webber)

FISH
11-24-2011, 07:17 AM
well played sir....well played

McDman
11-24-2011, 07:20 AM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

Br0nc0Buster
11-24-2011, 07:22 AM
I still dont think we go qb in the first

My guess is they give Weber a long look and either decide to keep him on as third, and bring in a veteran as backup

Or draft a guy in the middle-late rounds and also sign a veteran backup

I doubt Quinn would want to stay, but even if we prolly still need someone better than him

DrFate
11-24-2011, 07:23 AM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

Can you clarify? Do you mean a QB in round 1, or a QB somewhere?

Rabb
11-24-2011, 07:56 AM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

I agree and I don't think it has a thing to do with Tebow. I read one NFL exec a few years ago say, you draft a QB every year no matter who you have because they are just a valuable commodity many times.

montrose
11-24-2011, 08:01 AM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

This.

oubronco
11-24-2011, 08:02 AM
It all depends on what QB is on the board when they pick if one of the top QB's are there they will take him in a heartbeat

peacepipe
11-24-2011, 08:05 AM
They'll draft one in the 1st,I'll even go as far saying that they'll trade up if necessary.

Dedhed
11-24-2011, 08:09 AM
They'll draft one in the 1st,I'll even go as far saying that they'll trade up if necessary.

Shocking that you would think that.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-24-2011, 08:19 AM
I don't think he'll trade up, but if somehow Barkley has a bad combine or workouts and slips, and he's there when we pick...

Unlikely, especially if we're drafting in the latter third of the draft, which we probably are.

I'm afraid that Jones will be there. And I'm afraid we might pick him just to pick "A QUARTERBACK" in the first.

ChrisToker
11-24-2011, 08:20 AM
Jacksonville should be calling after probowl or whenever trades begin again and offer kings ransome for Timmy. They are non-factor team in history of NFL they have more room to fail w/ rebuilding team around option QB. To save franchise I could see them giving at least a 1st. Now we got two 1st rd so maybe use them to pick top 5 defence pick and mid 20's QB.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 08:21 AM
I agree and I don't think it has a thing to do with Tebow. I read one NFL exec a few years ago say, you draft a QB every year no matter who you have because they are just a valuable commodity many times.

I think anyone can draft a QB at the right spot (look at the Patriots taking the kid from Arkansas last year). But will Elway draft a QB in the first or 2nd round? Or just 'somewhere' later?

Jay3
11-24-2011, 08:22 AM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

This seems to be the outcome that is most easily reconciled with the facts. It's the simplest, most straightforward explanation for Elway's words and deeds.

The front office is not behaving like it is gearing up for a playoff run, this year or next. It is acting like it is "biting the bullet" for a three year plan that doesn't involve Tebow.

smoke4815162342
11-24-2011, 08:23 AM
If we don't make the playoffs, Elway is getting rid of Tebow

DrFate
11-24-2011, 08:25 AM
If we don't make the playoffs, Elway is getting rid of Tebow

I can't say I disagree - but it frustrates me to see a guy step into a 1-4 situation and (perhaps) win 7 of 11 starts and then be kicked to the curb.

smoke4815162342
11-24-2011, 08:25 AM
I can't say I disagree - but it frustrates me to see a guy step into a 1-4 situation and (perhaps) win 7 of 11 starts and then be kicked to the curb.

Frustrates me too

Hamrob
11-24-2011, 08:28 AM
Suppose the Broncos finish at 8-8 (I'm just picking a number).

Rather than looking for opinions on what Elway SHOULD do, what does your gut say he WILL do re: the QB position as a whole? (FA, draft, trade / Tebow/Quinn/Webber)Here's what I think:

1. He would like to draft a QB. Why? Because that is what he knows better than anything. That's why he is scouting QB's. He just doesn't see in Tebow what he believes a QB needs to be in order to compete for championships.

2. Right now, I'd say he's perplexed. He likes "Timmy". Really, who doesn't? He's a great kid. Tebow has willed his team to win and its hard to explain, because he is doing it so unconventional. Therefore, he would like to draft a kid, but it's too early to make that call.

3. It really does come down to the last 6 games. I don't think his mind is made up at this point. Regardless, he will need to bring in a QB next year, due to Orton leaving.

4. If the Broncos some how get into the playoffs this year, I think he give Tebow 2012 to prove himself. He will have earned it.

5. If the Broncos fail to make the playoffs and Tebow still hasn't shown very much improvement in the passing game, he will draft a QB in round 1. Then, he'll let them compete. In this scenario, Tebow will start next year too. It will be Tebow's 3rd year of a 4yr deal. As the rookie begins to learn the system, if Tebow struggles, then the rookie will take over. In 2013 the Broncos would then look to move Tebow. If Tebow succeeds, then you have a Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation.

What I would do?

I would continue to build your team from the INSIDE OUT. Build your lines, especially your defensive front 7. Maybe find you a replacement for Champ Bailey in the secondary. Keep building our depth. Committ to Tebow next year for better or worse. Bring in a vet to back him up. If he falters, go with the vet.

Then in 2013, you know where you are at. You either have your franchise QB in Tebow, or you move forward and draft a kid. This way, there isn't any sloppiness and you've given your 1st round investment every oppurtunity to pay dividends to your Organization.

ChrisToker
11-24-2011, 08:29 AM
Frustrates me he cant throw worth a ****

DarkHorse
11-24-2011, 08:30 AM
Go Weber!


If Tebow leads us to that many victories given the circumstances - no off season coaching, he's our starter no kyle orton is the starter ok it's Tebow's turn, etc...... I don't see how you could get rid of him. He has all the intangibles - EFX has said as much - so why not take the chance on coaching the kid? They must not be confident enough in their own coaching abilities.


At any rate, Elway gives Weber a look but in the end desperate to find his own "guy", Elway will reach for a QB - ANY QB - with his first rnd pick. That's after he tries to mortgage the next 3 years to get Andrew Luck.

Hamrob
11-24-2011, 08:32 AM
I don't think he'll trade up, but if somehow Barkley has a bad combine or workouts and slips, and he's there when we pick...

Unlikely, especially if we're drafting in the latter third of the draft, which we probably are.

I'm afraid that Jones will be there. And I'm afraid we might pick him just to pick "A QUARTERBACK" in the first.I don't want Barkley. Too small in my book.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 08:36 AM
Elway will reach for a QB - ANY QB - with his first rnd pick. That's after he tries to mortgage the next 3 years to get Andrew Luck.

This is what worries me. His body language/comments lead me to believe he'll draft pretty much ANY QB. And with so much scrutiny this year, people are starting to see Luck as a good prospect but with flaws (he doesn't have the physical tools of guys like Newton, for example). I'm quite down on Jones and a lot of people are down on Barkley.

Looking at the schedule, I could see this team winning at least 3 more games. Would be disappointed to see the franchise spend a 1st round pick on a guy, see him succeed, and then go in a different direction simply because a player doesn't 'look the part'. Especially after watching the previous regime squander SO MANY DRAFT PICKS.

Blah...

DenverBrit
11-24-2011, 08:41 AM
It will all depend upon Tebow's performance.

If the team ends at 8-8 but Tim hasn't progressed, then a QB in the first round and a vet in FA.

Broncoman13
11-24-2011, 08:46 AM
RGIII will be a Bronco.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 08:48 AM
RGIII will be a Bronco.

He's all over the board - some people claim he's a top 15 pick, some claim he's a 2nd round pick.

BroncsCheer
11-24-2011, 08:58 AM
Is Keenum coming out?
I haven't seen him play, but I see his stat line and it's impressive. What's the skinny on this guy?

vonqkilla
11-24-2011, 09:03 AM
Hamrob nailed it. My thoughts exactly.

RhymesayersDU
11-24-2011, 09:12 AM
I drafted a QB last night.

HAT
11-24-2011, 09:20 AM
Just think....Had Jack remained in football, pops could be drafting him as a Jr. coming out next April. Hilarious!

barryr
11-24-2011, 09:22 AM
They will draft a QB at some point, but would be stupid to do so in the 1st round IMO, especially since there is none I see really ready to come in and play right away where the Broncos will likely be drafting.

But I do think to properly evaluate Tebow, he needs at least one training camp with the starters and developing timing with the receivers, plus more work with a stable offense and not run being made as they go. Most young QB's get that at least before being labeled as able to play or not and Tebow has not had that benefit yet.

peacepipe
11-24-2011, 09:30 AM
Here's what I think:

1. He would like to draft a QB. Why? Because that is what he knows better than anything. That's why he is scouting QB's. He just doesn't see in Tebow what he believes a QB needs to be in order to compete for championships.

2. Right now, I'd say he's perplexed. He likes "Timmy". Really, who doesn't? He's a great kid. Tebow has willed his team to win and its hard to explain, because he is doing it so unconventional. Therefore, he would like to draft a kid, but it's too early to make that call.

3. It really does come down to the last 6 games. I don't think his mind is made up at this point. Regardless, he will need to bring in a QB next year, due to Orton leaving.

4. If the Broncos some how get into the playoffs this year, I think he give Tebow 2012 to prove himself. He will have earned it.

5. If the Broncos fail to make the playoffs and Tebow still hasn't shown very much improvement in the passing game, he will draft a QB in round 1. Then, he'll let them compete. In this scenario, Tebow will start next year too. It will be Tebow's 3rd year of a 4yr deal. As the rookie begins to learn the system, if Tebow struggles, then the rookie will take over. In 2013 the Broncos would then look to move Tebow. If Tebow succeeds, then you have a Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation.What I would do?

I would continue to build your team from the INSIDE OUT. Build your lines, especially your defensive front 7. Maybe find you a replacement for Champ Bailey in the secondary. Keep building our depth. Committ to Tebow next year for better or worse. Bring in a vet to back him up. If he falters, go with the vet.

Then in 2013, you know where you are at. You either have your franchise QB in Tebow, or you move forward and draft a kid. This way, there isn't any sloppiness and you've given your 1st round investment every oppurtunity to pay dividends to your Organization.this is where I disagree,they draft a QB in the 1st then Tebow is gone. If they draft a QB in the later rds then tebow will be our starter next yr. I feel that if they draft a QB in the 1st they will be doing so with the intention of moving away from the option offense. they not going into training camp with one QB working the option & the other working a pro style offense. They also will not take the chance of what happened to orton happening to their 1st rd pick.

Broncoman13
11-24-2011, 09:41 AM
this is where I disagree,they draft a QB in the 1st then Tebow is gone. If they draft a QB in the later rds then tebow will be our starter next yr. I feel that if they draft a QB in the 1st they will be doing so with the intention of moving away from the option offense. they not going into training camp with one QB working the option & the other working a pro style offense. They also will not take the chance of what happened to orton happening to their 1st rd pick.

They can move away from it but still have it in their hip pocket should Tebow have to rely on it. I think regardless of whether we draft a QB or not, they will move to more of a pro-style offense.

I think it's everybody's hope that Tebow can improve in a traditional QB role. They can always run the Zone Read with him, and it forces defenses to spend time defending one more aspect that is out of the norm. That is a best case scenario.

This is also why I think the Broncos will select RGIII. I know for a fact that the Broncos love what Tebow adds to the running game, even when he isn't carrying the ball. Just being on the field adds a dimension to the running game that opens things up for the RBs. RGIII would bring the same "off schedule" ability as Tebow and is likely to transition to a pure pocket passer more quickly than Tebow.

gunns
11-24-2011, 09:56 AM
Here's what I think:

1. He would like to draft a QB. Why? Because that is what he knows better than anything. That's why he is scouting QB's. He just doesn't see in Tebow what he believes a QB needs to be in order to compete for championships.

2. Right now, I'd say he's perplexed. He likes "Timmy". Really, who doesn't? He's a great kid. Tebow has willed his team to win and its hard to explain, because he is doing it so unconventional. Therefore, he would like to draft a kid, but it's too early to make that call.

3. It really does come down to the last 6 games. I don't think his mind is made up at this point. Regardless, he will need to bring in a QB next year, due to Orton leaving.

4. If the Broncos some how get into the playoffs this year, I think he give Tebow 2012 to prove himself. He will have earned it.

5. If the Broncos fail to make the playoffs and Tebow still hasn't shown very much improvement in the passing game, he will draft a QB in round 1. Then, he'll let them compete. In this scenario, Tebow will start next year too. It will be Tebow's 3rd year of a 4yr deal. As the rookie begins to learn the system, if Tebow struggles, then the rookie will take over. In 2013 the Broncos would then look to move Tebow. If Tebow succeeds, then you have a Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation.

What I would do?

I would continue to build your team from the INSIDE OUT. Build your lines, especially your defensive front 7. Maybe find you a replacement for Champ Bailey in the secondary. Keep building our depth. Committ to Tebow next year for better or worse. Bring in a vet to back him up. If he falters, go with the vet.

Then in 2013, you know where you are at. You either have your franchise QB in Tebow, or you move forward and draft a kid. This way, there isn't any sloppiness and you've given your 1st round investment every oppurtunity to pay dividends to your Organization.

I agree with most of this except bringing in a vet and waiting to see what you've got till 2013. It would depend on the vet. I would prefer to draft a QB, not in the first round as I agree draft for the lines and secondary. There are still too many questions about Tebow to wait. If he becomes the guy then we either have trade fodder or a good backup.

TonyR
11-24-2011, 10:20 AM
He's all over the board - some people claim he's a top 15 pick, some claim he's a 2nd round pick.

Do you mean this is what people think he's worth, or this is where they think he'll be picked? Because I think it's nearly impossible that he lasts beyond the top 5-10 picks, so anyone suggesting he won't go until the 2nd round is completely clueless.

TonyR
11-24-2011, 10:22 AM
1. He would like to draft a QB. Why? Because that is what he knows better than anything. That's why he is scouting QB's. He just doesn't see in Tebow what he believes a QB needs to be in order to compete for championships.

2. Right now, I'd say he's perplexed. He likes "Timmy". Really, who doesn't? He's a great kid. Tebow has willed his team to win and its hard to explain, because he is doing it so unconventional. Therefore, he would like to draft a kid, but it's too early to make that call.

Good post. And anyone watching Rodgers and Stafford right now can probably appreciate why Elway feels this way, even if they don't necessarily agree.

oubronco
11-24-2011, 10:25 AM
Good post. And anyone watching Rodgers and Stafford right now can probably appreciate why Elway feels this way, even if they don't necessarily agree.

Yep

Gort
11-24-2011, 10:29 AM
Good post. And anyone watching Rodgers and Stafford right now can probably appreciate why Elway feels this way, even if they don't necessarily agree.

quick question. how many games did Rodgers sit on the bench and how many bad games did he have before he became the 2010 SB winner? also, how long did Stafford get to play before he stopped sucking so badly?

Elway needs to understand that young QBs need time. all of them. even Luck will need a season or two in the best case scenario. we had Cutler for 3 years and he's in his 3rd year in Chicago and he's only now starting to get his act together. i don't see how anyone can WANT to restart the process all over again knowing that you're just extending the rebuild by 2-3 years (minimum) in the process. i can understand if we HAVE to do it. i don't understand why some people here desperately WANT us to do it.

TonyR
11-24-2011, 10:38 AM
quick question...

I just think Elway wants a "conventional" QB, and he hasn't seen enough from Tebow to believe he's ever going to remotely have the skills to be one. A lot of people think Tebow is going to develop such passing skills but unfortunately this is probably wishful thinking. There's a lot of great athletes out there but very few develop such skills. You either have the blueprint within you or you don't. He can certainly get better but perhaps never good enough. Tebow is very good at what he does, but what he does best might not be what Elway wants at the position. But as you and others have said, Tebow has that certain je ne sais quoi that makes you like him and has so far resulted in some unexpected success. If this continues he'll be hard to give up on.

cabronco
11-24-2011, 10:42 AM
I want to believe in Elways response before the Jets game. He said he hasn't pulled TT aside to give him some advice, because TT has enough to think about with coach McCoy & Gasse(sp) . But next year, when he gets a full off season to practice, he will.

That being said, if there's [I]any[I] chance of getting Luck, though unlikely I think he would. Otherwise they p/u a qb in the draft in another round, and if they dont then, then free agency.

Navy Broncos Fan
11-24-2011, 10:45 AM
The defense is aging and Tebow is putting up W's. With 2 young qbs already under contract and an aging defense he selects defense in the first and second round and sees what qbs are left. if nothing then picks up a veteran in the off season.

oubronco
11-24-2011, 10:46 AM
I want to believe in Elways response before the Jets game. He said he hasn't pulled TT aside to give him some advice, because TT has enough to think about with coach McCoy & Gasse(sp) . But next year, when he gets a full off season to practice, he will.

That being said, if there's [I]any[I] chance of getting Luck, though unlikely I think he would. Otherwise they p/u a qb in the draft in another round, and if they dont then, then free agency.

No but he did say this

I am very hopeful that Tim Tebow is our guy, Elway said. Am I absolutely positive at this point in time? No Im not. I want to believe that and thats what I want to happen.

It would be absolutely wonderful for the Denver Broncos and Denver Bronco fans if Tim Tebow could become that franchise guy. And believe me were all hopeful he can be that guy. Hes come in and won four of the past five games and hes played well. Youre not always going to make great strides week-in and week-out because you have ups and downs. But what I want to emphasize is, were all hopeful Tims the guy. I wish I had that crystal ball to be able to say that he absolutely is or _ I dont want to say hes not because I dont believe that. But its hard to say if Tim Tebow is absolutely that guy, Were very hopeful that he is.

Agamemnon
11-24-2011, 10:52 AM
I just think Elway wants a "conventional" QB, and he hasn't seen enough from Tebow to believe he's ever going to remotely have the skills to be one. A lot of people think Tebow is going to develop such passing skills but unfortunately this is probably wishful thinking. There's a lot of great athletes out there but very few develop such skills. You either have the blueprint within you or you don't. He can certainly get better but perhaps never good enough. Tebow is very good at what he does, but what he does best might not be what Elway wants at the position. But as you and others have said, Tebow has that certain je ne sais quoi that makes you like him and has so far resulted in some unexpected success. If this continues he'll be hard to give up on.

Tebow > Elway as a passer in his first eight starts. How can you conclude that Tebow can or can't develop more conventional passing skills based off such a small sample? It's baffling to me...

Agamemnon
11-24-2011, 10:54 AM
I want to believe in Elways response before the Jets game. He said he hasn't pulled TT aside to give him some advice, because TT has enough to think about with coach McCoy & Gasse(sp) . But next year, when he gets a full off season to practice, he will.

That being said, if there's [I]any[I] chance of getting Luck, though unlikely I think he would. Otherwise they p/u a qb in the draft in another round, and if they dont then, then free agency.

There is absolutely zero chance of us getting Luck. That isn't the alternative to Tebow. Not even close. The best alternative will probably be Landry Jones. ugh!~

mhgaffney
11-24-2011, 11:01 AM
If we don't make the playoffs, Elway is getting rid of Tebow

Spoken like a self proclaimed expert.

So man of them on this board.

Broncoman13
11-24-2011, 11:02 AM
Do you mean this is what people think he's worth, or this is where they think he'll be picked? Because I think it's nearly impossible that he lasts beyond the top 5-10 picks, so anyone suggesting he won't go until the 2nd round is completely clueless.

Major mechanical flaws, may only measure in at 6'0, may not have the 4.5 speed many are projecting... there are a lot of reasons he could fall to the 2nd round. For me, the major issue I have with him is the height. Can't work on that, can't fix it... I do freely admit that Drew Brees has done great with the same height.

Anyhow, not a slam-dunk for him to be a first round pick, let alone a top 10 pick!

Ratboy
11-24-2011, 11:05 AM
RGIII will be a Bronco.

Too small.

Agamemnon
11-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Major mechanical flaws, may only measure in at 6'0, may not have the 4.5 speed many are projecting... there are a lot of reasons he could fall to the 2nd round. For me, the major issue I have with him is the height. Can't work on that, can't fix it... I do freely admit that Drew Brees has done great with the same height.

Anyhow, not a slam-dunk for him to be a first round pick, let alone a top 10 pick!

Everything I've ever seen on the guy says he's 6'2". I agree with your other points, but I really don't see height being that much of an issue. Vick was drafted #1 overall at 6' tall and wasn't anywhere close to being the passer RGIII is.

Ratboy
11-24-2011, 11:11 AM
There is absolutely zero chance of us getting Luck. That isn't the alternative to Tebow. Not even close. The best alternative will probably be Landry Jones. ugh!~

Never say never.

Falcons traded 21 spots for Julio Jones.

razorwire77
11-24-2011, 11:17 AM
In an 8-8 scenario where the team misses the playoffs, I think the team will draft BPA in the 1st round. This certainly won't be a quarterback as Luck, Barkley, Jones and probably RG3 will be out of reach. And that's also assuming that all 4 come out. However, In the 2nd or 3rd round, I think EFX may pull the trigger on a Ryan Lindley type QB if he's there. I also think they will bring in a veteran FA as well. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

barryr
11-24-2011, 11:22 AM
quick question. how many games did Rodgers sit on the bench and how many bad games did he have before he became the 2010 SB winner? also, how long did Stafford get to play before he stopped sucking so badly?

Elway needs to understand that young QBs need time. all of them. even Luck will need a season or two in the best case scenario. we had Cutler for 3 years and he's in his 3rd year in Chicago and he's only now starting to get his act together. i don't see how anyone can WANT to restart the process all over again knowing that you're just extending the rebuild by 2-3 years (minimum) in the process. i can understand if we HAVE to do it. i don't understand why some people here desperately WANT us to do it.

Agreed. Rodgers had the luxury to play behind a HOF on a team that was already pretty good and not rebuilding when he got the job, with a full training camp as the starter to boot.

The Lions have gone something like 15-27 since Stafford has been the starter, so obviously it takes time for QB's to not only develop, but before they can actually help win games.

The Broncos are winning with Tebow, with no training camp as the starter, his best receiver traded before his first game, and on a rebuilding team to boot. Again, before the "experts" claim that Tebow will never amount to anything, how about he gets as much chance to prove it before getting rid of him? Somehow that is considered "loving Tebow" but seems that is more common sense. Besides, can people root for Miller or is that being a Miller lover?

Ratboy
11-24-2011, 11:22 AM
If John Elway believes his guy can come in on Day 1 and start winning for this organization.

He's going all out to get him.

Blueflame
11-24-2011, 11:43 AM
If you really listen to what Fox and Elway have been saying, the message has been fairly obvious that they intend to take a QB. Perhaps not in the first round; but I'd expect him to be drafted at some point in the early rounds.

eddie mac
11-24-2011, 11:48 AM
If we don't make the playoffs, Elway is getting rid of Tebow

At this point in time I'd rather 7 just ****ed off and stayed in my memory as a player. As every single week goes by I'm losing a little bit more respect for him. I dont think he has one clue how to run a football team.

TonyR
11-24-2011, 11:55 AM
Tebow > Elway as a passer in his first eight starts. How can you conclude that Tebow can or can't develop more conventional passing skills based off such a small sample? It's baffling to me...

If you saw Elway early in his career you could see his potential. That's why he was the first pick in the draft. He just had to put it all together. Haven't seen that potential from Tebow. It's just my opinion that Tebow won't ever be a "conventional passing QB". Maybe his other skills and intangibles will be enough to overcome this. And maybe they won't be. This is the decision Elway and Fox have to make.

Tombstone RJ
11-24-2011, 11:59 AM
They'll draft one in the 1st,I'll even go as far saying that they'll trade up if necessary.

you fail. See OP dude. It's not what you think Elway should do, it's what you think Elway will do.

you lose. again.

Tombstone RJ
11-24-2011, 12:04 PM
If the Broncos go 8-8 I think Elway will consider a QB in the first round if by some miracle a blue chip QB drops to the Broncos when they draft. Otherwise I see the team going defense with the first pick.

cabronco
11-24-2011, 12:11 PM
No but he did say this

I am very hopeful that Tim Tebow is our guy, Elway said. Am I absolutely positive at this point in time? No Im not. I want to believe that and thats what I want to happen.

It would be absolutely wonderful for the Denver Broncos and Denver Bronco fans if Tim Tebow could become that franchise guy. And believe me were all hopeful he can be that guy. Hes come in and won four of the past five games and hes played well. Youre not always going to make great strides week-in and week-out because you have ups and downs. But what I want to emphasize is, were all hopeful Tims the guy. I wish I had that crystal ball to be able to say that he absolutely is or _ I dont want to say hes not because I dont believe that. But its hard to say if Tim Tebow is absolutely that guy, Were very hopeful that he is.



So you're saying Elway didnt make the statement about next off season/ mini camps about helping Tebow?

I would expect Elway to make the comments you quoted, heck TT been a starter for 8 games, with no off season, and everyone knew he needed work as a passing Qb.

Armchair Bronco
11-24-2011, 12:31 PM
I agree with Skip Bayless that Tebow's long-term future is not with Denver.

So, that means 2 things: either A) Elway trades Tebow during the off-season; or B) Tebow loses the starting job to a green rookie next year and is converted to some kind of hybrid fullback-rb-qb and eventually traded.

Either way, I predict that Elway will trade Tebow within 2 years and maybe by early 2012. I further predict that Elway will leverage the farm for a QB in the draft (thought I doubt this will be Luck) and that whoever we get will not turn out the be the "sure thing" that Elway was hoping for. Finally, I predict that the team that trades for Tebow will go on to great things; meanwhile, Elway will be spending the rest of his GM career trying to put the proper spin on the trade.

Crushisback
11-24-2011, 12:31 PM
RGIII in the second would be Ideal as he could compete/backup in the system we run.

theAPAOps5
11-24-2011, 12:34 PM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

Have to with only one on roster after season....... And Webber can't be the only QB on e team......... :sunshine::curtsey:



You have to bring in someone as Tebow needs someone other than webber

eddie mac
11-24-2011, 12:44 PM
It wont be a rookie that's for sure. If Quinn isn't re-signed a vet will be brought in.

Popps
11-24-2011, 12:59 PM
Orton may be available...

DrFate
11-24-2011, 01:04 PM
Do you mean this is what people think he's worth, or this is where they think he'll be picked? Because I think it's nearly impossible that he lasts beyond the top 5-10 picks, so anyone suggesting he won't go until the 2nd round is completely clueless.

Some people say he'll be drafted in the top 15, other people think he won't get drafted until the 2nd round. I'm not sure why you think 'it's nearly impossible' - from what I've read he's the 4th best QB at best (Luck, Barkley, Jones, in some order).

I'd be pretty amazed if 4 QBs went in the top 10.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 01:09 PM
If John Elway believes his guy can come in on Day 1 and start winning for this organization.


That's kinda why I started the thread. Love him or hate him, the guy he has NOW is 'winning for this organization'.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 01:19 PM
Because I think it's nearly impossible that he lasts beyond the top 5-10 picks, so anyone suggesting he won't go until the 2nd round is completely clueless.

This was posted by ICON in another thread (I'm stealing it)

Team Record Win % Opp Rec SoS
--------------------------------------
1) IND 0-10 .000 84-76 .5250
2) CAR 2-8 .200 81-79 .5063
3t) STL 2-8 .200 92-68 .5750
4t) MIN 2-8 .200 92-68 .5750
5) WAS 3-7 .300 74-86 .4625
6) JAC 3-7 .300 76-84 .4750
7) ARI 3-7 .300 77-83 .4813
8) MIA 3-7 .300 83-77 .5188
9) PHI 4-6 .400 81-79 .5063
10) CLE 4-6 .400 82-78 .5125
11) KC 4-6 .400 83-77 .5188
12) SEA 4-6 .400 84-76 .5250
13t) SD 4-6 .400 86-74 .5375
14t) TB 4-6 .400 86-74 .5375
15) TEN 5-5 .500 73-87 .4563
16) NYJ 5-5 .500 78-82 .4875
17) BUF 5-5 .500 79-81 .4938
18) DEN 5-5 .500 85-75 .5313
19t) DAL 6-4 .600 75-85 .4688
20t) ATL 6-4 .600 75-85 .4688 [Traded to Cleveland]
21) CIN 6-4 .600 79-81 .4938
22) NYG 6-4 .600 81-79 .5063
23) OAK 6-4 .600 83-77 .5188 [Traded to Cincinnati]
24) HOU 7-3 .700 68-92 .4250
25) NE 7-3 .700 71-89 .4438
26) NO 7-3 .700 73-87 .4563 [Traded to New England]
27) BAL 7-3 .700 76-84 .4750
28) PIT 7-3 .700 78-82 .4875
29) CHI 7-3 .700 84-76 .5250
30) DET 7-3 .700 91-69 .5688
31) SF 9-1 .900 72-88 .4500
32) GB 10-0 1.000 78-82 .4875

Indy takes Luck
CAR2 isn't taking a QB
STL3 isn't taking a QB
MIN4 isn't taking a QB
WSH5 could very well take a QB
JAC6 isn't taking a QB
ARI7 probably isn't taking a QB
MIA8 will probably take a QB
PHI9 isn't taking a QB
CLE10 might go either way

I'm not trying to bust your balls, TonyR - but I can't see RG3 going in the top 10 (much less the top 5). It's possible, but it seems very unlikely to me.

I'd think the Skins might take Barkley and the Dolphins could take Jones.

KC at 11 and SEA at 12 could both be interested in a QB.

Based on the numbers posted by ICON, I can see seven teams before Denver that might be interested in taking a QB in round 1. I think 3 going would be a safe bet.

TonyR
11-24-2011, 01:28 PM
...but I can't see RG3 going in the top 10 (much less the top 5). It's possible, but it seems very unlikely to me.

I would assume Washington is a lock to take a QB which makes 4-6 teams (Indy, Skins, Jacksonville, Arizona, Miami, Cleveland) likely/possibly to take QB's in the top 10, plus the chance for other teams to trade up.

Agamemnon
11-24-2011, 01:31 PM
I would assume Washington is a lock to take a QB which makes 4-6 teams (Indy, Skins, Jacksonville, Arizona, Miami, Cleveland) likely/possibly to take QB's in the top 10, plus the chance for other teams to trade up.

Not sure about Jacksonville and Arizona, but the other four will definitely take a QB.

HAT
11-24-2011, 01:50 PM
Jacksonville is probably regretting trading up for Gabbert but there is no way in HELL they draft 1st round QB's back to back.....That's not to say they wouldn't consider another QB though.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Denver traded Tebow + a 2013 mid round pick to swap 1st rounders with J-ville this year if Barkley is on the clock when they are selecting.

theAPAOps5
11-24-2011, 01:55 PM
Just think....Had Jack remained in football, pops could be drafting him as a Jr. coming out next April. Hilarious!

Yeah and then he would be what all the looneys here say, bad

Armchair Bronco
11-24-2011, 02:00 PM
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Denver traded Tebow + a 2013 mid round pick to swap 1st rounders with J-ville this year if Barkley is on the clock when they are selecting.

I think you nailed it.

Tebow's a natural fit for Jacksonville. He'll instantly fill their stadium for 2-3 years even if he's a complete failure. Thing is: he won't be a complete failure, not by a mile. It'll end up being the trade of the decade, talked about the way we still talk about the Baltimore-Denver trade for Elway.

:facepalm

DrFate
11-24-2011, 02:16 PM
I would assume Washington is a lock to take a QB which makes 4-6 teams (Indy, Skins, Jacksonville, Arizona, Miami, Cleveland) likely/possibly to take QB's in the top 10, plus the chance for other teams to trade up.

You are talking about an unprecedented run on QBs in the top draft. The record for QBs taken in the entire first round is 6 (83)

5 QBs were taken in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NFL_Draft

I listed those teams as potentially taking a QB. There won't be 6 QBs taken in the top ten.

Durango
11-24-2011, 03:08 PM
I think we draft a QB regardless of where we finish.

This. Whether it is RG III to complement what Tebow is already doing in this offense, or Elway/Fox simply decides to go another direction entirely, I sincerely believe the Broncos will go QB in the 1st.

Slightly Soiled
11-24-2011, 03:15 PM
I think you nailed it.

Tebow's a natural fit for Jacksonville. He'll instantly fill their stadium for 2-3 years even if he's a complete failure. Thing is: he won't be a complete failure, not by a mile. It'll end up being the trade of the decade, talked about the way we still talk about the Baltimore-Denver trade for Elway.

:facepalm
This was talked about when Tebow came out. Jax does not care about filling seats they want to move to LA.

zdoor
11-24-2011, 03:23 PM
This was posted by ICON in another thread (I'm stealing it)



Indy takes Luck
CAR2 isn't taking a QB
STL3 isn't taking a QB
MIN4 isn't taking a QB
WSH5 could very well take a QB
JAC6 isn't taking a QB
ARI7 probably isn't taking a QB
MIA8 will probably take a QB
PHI9 isn't taking a QB
CLE10 might go either way

I'm not trying to bust your balls, TonyR - but I can't see RG3 going in the top 10 (much less the top 5). It's possible, but it seems very unlikely to me.

I'd think the Skins might take Barkley and the Dolphins could take Jones.

KC at 11 and SEA at 12 could both be interested in a QB.

Based on the numbers posted by ICON, I can see seven teams before Denver that might be interested in taking a QB in round 1. I think 3 going would be a safe bet.

I think 5 will go in top 15 and one will be RG3

DrFate
11-24-2011, 03:26 PM
I think 5 will go in top 15 and one will be RG3

I think that would be unprecedented as well. In your view, who is the 5th?

EDIT: I stand corrected - in '99, FIVE QBs went in the top 12 (what a pile of fail) :)


1

Cleveland Browns

Tim Couch

Quarterback

University of Kentucky



2

Philadelphia Eagles

Donovan McNabb

Quarterback

Syracuse



3

Cincinnati Bengals

Akili Smith

Quarterback

Oregon



4

Indianapolis Colts

Edgerrin James

Running Back

Miami (FL)



5

New Orleans Saints (From Carolina Panthers via Washington Redskins)

Ricky Williams [2]

Running Back

Texas



6

St. Louis Rams

Torry Holt

Wide Receiver

NC State



7

Washington Redskins (From Chicago Bears)

Champ Bailey

Cornerback

Georgia



8

Arizona Cardinals (From San Diego Chargers)

David Boston

Wide Receiver

Ohio State



9

Detroit Lions

Chris Claiborne

Linebacker

USC



10

Baltimore Ravens

Chris McAlister

Defensive Back

Arizona



11

Minnesota Vikings (From Washington Redskins)

Daunte Culpepper

Quarterback

Central Florida



12

Chicago Bears (From New Orleans Saints via Washington Redskins)

Cade McNown

Quarterback

UCLA

HAT
11-24-2011, 03:32 PM
Miami might not be looking for a QB come April at this rate.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 03:34 PM
Miami might not be looking for a QB come April at this rate.

Dallas is sooooooo overrated...

HAT
11-24-2011, 03:42 PM
Dallas is sooooooo overrated...

I agree but Moore's body of work has been pretty good over the last 4-5 games.

He had pretty good numbers in 2009 as well. Just nothing to work with in 2010.

maher_tyler
11-24-2011, 03:57 PM
I doubt we take one in the first. If a guy like Foles is there with our second pick I think we take him. We will be taking a QB day one!

elsid13
11-24-2011, 04:30 PM
I doubt we take one in the first. If a guy like Foles is there with our second pick I think we take him. We will be taking a QB day one!

Day one (night one) is just the 1st round now.

zdoor
11-24-2011, 04:31 PM
Luck, Barkley, jones, RG3, Tannehill... I think Tannehill is likely last of the group...


I think that would be unprecedented as well. In your view, who is the 5th?

EDIT: I stand corrected - in '99, FIVE QBs went in the top 12 (what a pile of fail) :)


1

Cleveland Browns

Tim Couch

Quarterback

University of Kentucky



2

Philadelphia Eagles

Donovan McNabb

Quarterback

Syracuse



3

Cincinnati Bengals

Akili Smith

Quarterback

Oregon



4

Indianapolis Colts

Edgerrin James

Running Back

Miami (FL)



5

New Orleans Saints (From Carolina Panthers via Washington Redskins)

Ricky Williams [2]

Running Back

Texas



6

St. Louis Rams

Torry Holt

Wide Receiver

NC State



7

Washington Redskins (From Chicago Bears)

Champ Bailey

Cornerback

Georgia



8

Arizona Cardinals (From San Diego Chargers)

David Boston

Wide Receiver

Ohio State



9

Detroit Lions

Chris Claiborne

Linebacker

USC



10

Baltimore Ravens

Chris McAlister

Defensive Back

Arizona



11

Minnesota Vikings (From Washington Redskins)

Daunte Culpepper

Quarterback

Central Florida



12

Chicago Bears (From New Orleans Saints via Washington Redskins)

Cade McNown

Quarterback

UCLA

RaiderH8r
11-24-2011, 04:34 PM
Tebow gets us to 8-8 after all the **** he's had to endure while not having a #1 receiver on the team I call him an unmitigated success story for the year. This club drafts QB in the first in that situation and I am going to leave a coiled, chocolate cable on Elway's hood. I might burn Invesco field's Sports Authority Stadium at some place in Denver to the ground. Elway might have to go into protective custody. Sandusky might be more popular than John if they waste a first rounder on QB with other needs of greater concern.

DrFate
11-24-2011, 04:48 PM
Luck, Barkley, jones, RG3, Tannehill... I think Tannehill is likely last of the group...

Thanks ^5

Mile High Mojoe
11-24-2011, 04:55 PM
Suppose the Broncos finish at 8-8 (I'm just picking a number).

Rather than looking for opinions on what Elway SHOULD do, what does your gut say he WILL do re: the QB position as a whole? (FA, draft, trade / Tebow/Quinn/Webber)

Say for a minute we do go 8-8, I still dont have a crystal ball. I dont get too caught up in all the ifs ands or buts. Instead Im focused and this Sundays game with the Chargers. This one is the biggest game the Broncos have played in for long time, way too long.

Win this one and the Broncos could have a legit chance at playoff berth as a division winner or as a wildcard. I think its not entirely impossible for the Broncos to win every game left on their schedule even the Patriots game which in my mind will be the toughest one.

Until this game is played and the rest of the season is played out no draft scenario can be a lock especially at QB. Tebow still has something to prove to Bowlen, Elway, Fox and the fans. If he falls flat and the Broncos fall out of the playoff hunt and he stinks in the process then consideration must be given to a draft QB but not until then.

I think the Broncos need a lot of help at other positions, RB, CB, DL, and WR. If Tebow plays well, then I cant see in any scenario that the Broncos take a QB in the first or even the second round.

For all the hype surrounding Luck, Barkley and Jones Im just not convinced that giving away Fort Knox to get any of them even if Tebow lays an egg the rest of the season is the smart move.

What is most needed right now is just a little more patience and lot less judgment of what we have right now because the team is winning. Thinking about this weeks game should be #1.

McDman
11-24-2011, 07:48 PM
Can you clarify? Do you mean a QB in round 1, or a QB somewhere?

I think anywhere. From the first to the seventh, we have to take a QB.

~Crash~
11-24-2011, 07:52 PM
I don't think he'll trade up, but if somehow Barkley has a bad combine or workouts and slips, and he's there when we pick...

Unlikely, especially if we're drafting in the latter third of the draft, which we probably are.

I'm afraid that Jones will be there. And I'm afraid we might pick him just to pick "A QUARTERBACK" in the first.

keep the hope we draft those to rubber armed QB's..nope not worth a first round pick...

McDman
11-24-2011, 07:57 PM
If we draft a 1st or 2nd round QB, Tebow is 100% gone before next year. We can't have that circus in town if we want to develop a young QB.

~Crash~
11-24-2011, 08:01 PM
Luck, Barkley, jones, RG3, Tannehill... I think Tannehill is likely last of the group...

of those 4 Tannehill but I would want him in the 2nd round.

~Crash~
11-24-2011, 08:03 PM
but if Moore was still there I would not be to happy I like him more for his smarts. they have about the same arm

Armchair Bronco
11-24-2011, 08:18 PM
Sadly, I think Tebow's already gone. Enjoy this season, folks, 'cause it's all she wrote. Doesn't matter if Tebow takes us to the playoffs (which I think is a possibility). He's not Elway's guy, and Elway's ego is what is driving the FO.

TDmvp
11-24-2011, 08:22 PM
IF they get rid of Tim and not even give him a fair chance the FO is the dumbest in the league ... Even Mike Brown isn't that stupid.

errand
11-24-2011, 08:25 PM
I can't say I disagree - but it frustrates me to see a guy step into a 1-4 situation and (perhaps) win 7 of 11 starts and then be kicked to the curb.

Bottom line is to win games and eventually a championship.

I think if Tebow wins 7 of 11 starts he's gonna be the starter heading into camp next season....i mean wouldn't he have earned it with that?..and we'll either sign a potentially above average FA like say Matt Flynn...if they let Quinn walk.

If they dump Tebow and don't try to trade for top spot to grab Luck, then I think they pursue one of the top two QB's - Brees and Smith

I'd go with defense, because even a moderately tolerable QB or game manager can win games and titles with a good running game and a good to great defense.

McDman
11-24-2011, 08:27 PM
If Tebow gets release/traded, this board will see an epic meltdown of proportions never before seen.

Jhizz will go back to hating the Broncos and start calling people elwayites. He'll still talk about it ten years from now.

MacGruder will either, 1.) Assassinate the FO. 2.) Kill himself. 3) both 1 and 2. Or maybe that's all a projection. Maybe he is a projection!?!? Gaaaaah anti-gravity aliens!

Mojo will go sulk and vent on his myspace blog while developing anti-Fox websites on a Geo-Cities server.

HAT
11-24-2011, 08:29 PM
Mojo will go sulk and vent on his myspace blog while developing anti-Fox websites on a Geo-Cities server.

Hilarious!

errand
11-24-2011, 08:37 PM
IF they get rid of Tim and not even give him a fair chance the FO is the dumbest in the league ... Even Mike Brown isn't that stupid.

11 starts this season wouldn't be a fair chance?

TDmvp
11-24-2011, 08:50 PM
11 starts this season wouldn't be a fair chance?



Hence the IF ... I was more going with he the kid shows signs that he can grow as a qb and they still pi$$ away more high round picks on a Qb and not fix other holes.


If he shows any signs he can get better they are stupid if they don't give him a fair chance to keep the job. Be that throughout the rest of this season or going into next... I personally don't think 11 games without going into a season as the starter with a true OS is enough a sample to judge that but I'm a realist and know some disagree and it's a opinion so o well. But with all the holes on D we need to fix/replace playing Tim a full season or two more if he grows wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen to us...


And it's sad you have to proclaim a side during each post or you get painted pro or anti Tebow but I say all this as someone who disliked Tebow's college hype and didn't want us to draft him. But now that he's ours and I've seen the kinda man he is and what he brings to the table I'm glad he's a Bronco and just want him to do well... And with the added attention it gives the team in the national spotlight the upside I would think is worth giving it a chance.

epicSocialism4tw
11-24-2011, 09:22 PM
If the Broncos end up 8-8, Tebow will have been 7-4.

Pretty incredible results after inheriting a loser franchise that had a front office who made a bunch of ridiculous mistakes in the offseason and who continue to waste assets and make mistakes through the regular season.

Given the fact that this greenhorn front office has made an early impression of having a tendancy for making egregious mistakes repeatedly and showing no signs of correcting themselves, I would have to say that the morons ditch Tebow and bring in the next Ryan Leaf.

Mile High Mojoe
11-24-2011, 10:18 PM
If Tebow gets release/traded, this board will see an epic meltdown of proportions never before seen.

Jhizz will go back to hating the Broncos and start calling people elwayites. He'll still talk about it ten years from now.

MacGruder will either, 1.) Assassinate the FO. 2.) Kill himself. 3) both 1 and 2. Or maybe that's all a projection. Maybe he is a projection!?!? Gaaaaah anti-gravity aliens!

Mojo will go sulk and vent on his myspace blog while developing anti-Fox websites on a Geo-Cities server.

The next time Bowlen, Elway, Fox and me as a fan need an opinion on what position players to draft, who to trade for, sign as free agents, how to run an offensive and defense or any other football related issue we'll make damn sure that there's a hot land line to you Buddy. Well make sure we contact you first because you have infinite wisdom and all the answers. You're the smartest guy in the room theres no doubt about it, why would anyone challenge you excuse me.

KO5K
11-24-2011, 11:56 PM
Elway gets his QB regardless of what Tebow does.

Elway then dumps Tebow thinking he'll get rid of the 'circus' when in reality the whole 'Gator invasion' is overrated (maybe five Tebow only fans on this forum tops) and he ends up pissing off a vast number of Bronco fans.

All I'll say to Elway is make bloody sure the QB you choose turns out a goodun or else you're ****ed.

Elway also needs to bear in mind that Tebow has set the standards for a rookie QB coming into Denver and that standard is winning. If the rookie looks nice but can't win, he's ****ed and Elway's ****ed.

epicSocialism4tw
11-25-2011, 12:01 AM
Elway gets his QB regardless of what Tebow does.

Elway then dumps Tebow thinking he'll get rid of the 'circus' when in reality the whole 'Gator invasion' is overrated (maybe five Tebow only fans on this forum tops) and he ends up pissing off a vast number of Bronco fans.

All I'll say to Elway is make bloody sure the QB you choose turns out a goodun or else you're ****ed.

Elway also needs to bear in mind that Tebow has set the standards for a rookie QB coming into Denver and that standard is winning. If the rookie looks nice but can't win, he's ****ed and Elway's ****ed.

After seeing the last regime toss aside a promising young player for a QB that fit his 'vision' for the franchise, it would be devastating to Broncos fans to see another talented young player tossed aside and replaced by a vanilla bean.

It would be a disaster.

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2011, 05:01 AM
In my view, there are only two reasonable explanations for Elway's PR approach with Tebow:

A) he's clueless about the way that *real* GM's and VP's operate, and he's just making this **** up as he goes along. He also loves to hear himself speak, so when asked a question (...any question...) he just starts shooting off his mouth without thinking, then is foced to "clarify" things the following day.

B) he's already given up on Tebow and is determined to bring in his own "Pocket Passing Teacher's Pet". Given Tebow's popularity he has no choice but to build a case for trading Tebow in the offseason. He knows that this will be an unpopular move, so he's trying to set the bar so high that statistical failure (3rd down conversion, completion percentage, etc.) will be a given.

In scenario B, he can say: "Look, we gave Tebow a chance, but his [NAME_OF_STAT] percentage just wasn't high enough, so we had to draft [ALLEGED_QB_OF_THE_FUTURE]."

Either way, Elway is either a rank rookie GM making PR blunder after blunder and not learning from his prior mistakes, or he's trying to make a case against Tebow to justify a decision he's already made.

Jay3
11-25-2011, 05:23 AM
In my view, there are only two reasonable explanations for Elway's PR approach with Tebow:

A) he's clueless about the way that *real* GM's and VP's operate, and he's just making this **** up as he goes along. He also loves to hear himself speak, so when asked a question (...any question...) he just starts shooting off his mouth without thinking, then is foced to "clarify" things the following day.

B) he's already given up on Tebow and is determined to bring in his own "Pocket Passing Teacher's Pet". Given Tebow's popularity he has no choice but to build a case for trading Tebow in the offseason. He knows that this will be an unpopular move, so he's trying to set the bar so high that statistical failure (3rd down conversion, completion percentage, etc.) will be a given.

In scenario B, he can say: "Look, we gave Tebow a chance, but his [NAME_OF_STAT] percentage just wasn't high enough, so we had to draft [ALLEGED_QB_OF_THE_FUTURE]."

Either way, Elway is either a rank rookie GM making PR blunder after blunder and not learning from his prior mistakes, or he's trying to make a case against Tebow to justify a decision he's already made.

But ironically, if he's on Plan B, this makes it worse, because he sets himself up as undermining Tebow, and will be associated with causing it to happen instead of just making a tough decision.

Best plan would have have been to seem fully supportive, don't rip your player in the press, and then draft a quarterback if that's your decision. Happens all the time.

Jay3
11-25-2011, 05:25 AM
It's almost like Elway thinks Tebow will CONTINUE TO WIN. If the thought that he would eventually implode, he wouldn't need to get out in front with some standard that nobody has applied before (at least not on this timetable).

I think he knows in his heart there's a chance Tebow keeps being a part of wins now. Instead of what he was assuming would happen -- a huge losing streak.

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2011, 05:29 AM
But ironically, if he's on Plan B, this makes it worse, because he sets himself up as undermining Tebow, and will be associated with causing it to happen instead of just making a tough decision.

Best plan would have have been to seem fully supportive, don't rip your player in the press, and then draft a quarterback if that's your decision. Happens all the time.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I wrote this. The best plan would have been to play the PR game, outwardly show support for Tebow during this season, mix in positive comments with constructive criticism, and obfuscate the way every other freakin' GM in the league obfuscates.

Then, in the offseason, do whatever you think you need to do, and stand behind your decision. If you trade Tebow (or demote him) you're going to be unpopular with a lot of fans anyway, so no amount of prior public bashing is going to help. And it gives the appearance that Elway's ego, and not the franchise itself, was what drove the decision.

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2011, 05:38 AM
It's almost like Elway thinks Tebow will CONTINUE TO WIN. If the thought that he would eventually implode, he wouldn't need to get out in front with some standard that nobody has applied before (at least not on this timetable).

I think he knows in his heart there's a chance Tebow keeps being a part of wins now. Instead of what he was assuming would happen -- a huge losing streak.

Yep, call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but if you take this assumption as a given, then everything else the FO has done (as well as the ultra-mega-conservative playcalling) makes perfect sense.

No one, especially Elway, expected Tebow to do what he's done. They expected him to lose just as badly as Orton had been losing.

McDman
11-25-2011, 06:07 AM
The next time Bowlen, Elway, Fox and me as a fan need an opinion on what position players to draft, who to trade for, sign as free agents, how to run an offensive and defense or any other football related issue we'll make damn sure that there's a hot land line to you Buddy. Well make sure we contact you first because you have infinite wisdom and all the answers. You're the smartest guy in the room theres no doubt about it, why would anyone challenge you excuse me.

Well thank you, I'd appreciate that. Bout damn time someone realized it.

But don't make it a land line, I'm out a lot. We'll have to use cell phones.

DrFate
11-25-2011, 06:59 AM
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts (please keep them coming)

I think Tebow is done in Denver (by that I mean he'll never been seen as the QBOTF). While I think 3 more wins is very realistic with the schedule as it sits now, I think Elway has decided Tebow isn't 'his guy' and will be looking to draft a QB in rounds 1-2 and will be signing a vet FA as the stop gap.

I have nothing to support this other than my interpretation of Elway's comments (and Fox's comments). I think this team has a very real chance to make the playoffs this year - and I think what I think anyway.

McDaniels was the ultimate waster of draft picks. And it will bother me most that this new regime is going to ignore the W-L record of Tebow and move on because he fails the 'eye test' (whatever that is for them).

I have a feeling Tebow will succeed (at some level) in the NFL - but I don't believe it will be for the Broncos.

When we go into camp next year, I wouldn't be really shocked to see Ayers as the only round 1 pick from the McDaniels era to still be on the roster.

Agamemnon
11-25-2011, 12:28 PM
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts (please keep them coming)

I think Tebow is done in Denver (by that I mean he'll never been seen as the QBOTF). While I think 3 more wins is very realistic with the schedule as it sits now, I think Elway has decided Tebow isn't 'his guy' and will be looking to draft a QB in rounds 1-2 and will be signing a vet FA as the stop gap.

I have nothing to support this other than my interpretation of Elway's comments (and Fox's comments). I think this team has a very real chance to make the playoffs this year - and I think what I think anyway.

McDaniels was the ultimate waster of draft picks. And it will bother me most that this new regime is going to ignore the W-L record of Tebow and move on because he fails the 'eye test' (whatever that is for them).

I have a feeling Tebow will succeed (at some level) in the NFL - but I don't believe it will be for the Broncos.

When we go into camp next year, I wouldn't be really shocked to see Ayers as the only round 1 pick from the McDaniels era to still be on the roster.

I've been thinking the same thing since the beginning of the season, and somehow Tebow keeps undermining them. If he can get us to the playoffs and shows even a little bit of improvement as a passer in the process I'm not so sure. I think Elway wants to draft someone else, but at a certain point it might be out of his hands. Trading away Tebow after a playoff run that no one thought would happen, and replacing him with someone like Foles or Tannehill would be a PR nightmare for the Broncos. Especially if their guy ended up struggling in the passing game like Tebow (very likely), and we started losing again.

At this point, I'm just hoping Tebow can keep putting the pressure on them. The guy has too much magic to just throw away because he's not a refined passer after eight starts. Replacing him with a Blaine Gabbert-type guy before even giving him a chance would be completely insane.

And really, who is the new guy supposed to throw to next year? Really we don't have a the supporting offensive personnel to make a rookie QB look good. Or the offensive coaches for that matter.

SoCalBronco
11-25-2011, 12:36 PM
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts (please keep them coming)

I think Tebow is done in Denver (by that I mean he'll never been seen as the QBOTF). While I think 3 more wins is very realistic with the schedule as it sits now, I think Elway has decided Tebow isn't 'his guy' and will be looking to draft a QB in rounds 1-2 and will be signing a vet FA as the stop gap.

.

I think there is a good chance of this as well. We'll see what happens, but if that's the route he goes the guy he picks better be good, or else his position as VP/de facto GM is going to quickly get untenable.

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2011, 12:42 PM
It sure seems to me that Elway is on the road to becoming the next Matt Millen. I guess this means we can expect to see him in the broadcast booth in 2 or 3 years.

epicSocialism4tw
11-25-2011, 12:47 PM
I think there is a good chance of this as well. We'll see what happens, but if that's the route he goes the guy he picks better be good, or else his position as VP/de facto GM is going to quickly get untenable.

Im not sure what Elway thinks he's going to accomplish if he drafts another player. QB's generally take a couple of years of constant playing time and practice to reach the level of performance that Elway expects.

If Elway drafts another player, he's potentially setting the team back a season or two while that player gets up to speed...essentially repeating the Tebow situation and extending the rebuild.

He'll potentially be fired before the thing comes to fruition.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2011, 12:50 PM
It sure seems to me that Elway is on the road to becoming the next Matt Millen. I guess this means we can expect to see him in the broadcast booth in 2 or 3 years.

Name one draft pick Millen made that has made close to the impact of Elway's first pick as a GM? Tebow fans will do anything to toss a Broncos legend under the bus, cause they don't think he likes Tebow. Hilarious! John Elway was a winner in the NFL. John Elway built a winner in the AFL. John Elway will be a winner as a GM in Denver with or without Tebow.

epicSocialism4tw
11-25-2011, 12:51 PM
Name one draft pick Millen made that has made close to the impact of Elway's first pick as a GM? Tebow fans will do anything to toss a Broncos legend under the bus, cause they don't think he likes Tebow. Hilarious! John Elway was a winner in the NFL. John Elway built a winner in the AFL. John Elway will be a winner as a GM in Denver with or without Tebow.

Thats yet to be seen. The Broncos have made a pile of managerial mistakes already.

Mile High Mojoe
11-25-2011, 12:53 PM
Im not sure what Elway thinks he's going to accomplish if he drafts another player. QB's generally take a couple of years of constant playing time and practice to reach the level of performance that Elway expects.

If Elway drafts another player, he's potentially setting the team back a season or two while that player gets up to speed...essentially repeating the Tebow situation and extending the rebuild.

He'll potentially be fired before the thing comes to fruition.

I read your comments all the time and don't comment much because I agree with all of them. Every time you post you throw a TD. This one is another here, keep up the push. Be the master of the art of war, don't let them derail you.

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Name one draft pick Millen made that has made close to the impact of Elway's first pick as a GM? Tebow fans will do anything to toss a Broncos legend under the bus, cause they don't think he likes Tebow. Hilarious! John Elway was a winner in the NFL. John Elway built a winner in the AFL. John Elway will be a winner as a GM in Denver with or without Tebow.

We'll see. But right now Elway reminds me more of Matt Millen than, say, Brian Cashman.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2011, 12:58 PM
Thats yet to be seen. The Broncos have made a pile of managerial mistakes already.

Yeah I agree but he will improve. None of our mistakes he has made will set this team back like McD's did. Doubt Elway all you want, he has a history of proving people wrong.

epicSocialism4tw
11-25-2011, 12:59 PM
Yeah I agree but he will improve. None of our mistakes he has made will set this team back like McD's did. Doubt Elway all you want, he has a history of proving people wrong.

So does Tebow.

Tebow is already well on that path again. Elway is still lining up under center right now while Tebow is leading his team to dramatic comebacks.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2011, 01:01 PM
We'll see. But right now Elway reminds me more of Matt Millen than, say, Brian Cashman.

Awesome compare him with a GM of a sport with no cap. ****ing brilliant. ::)

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2011, 01:12 PM
Awesome compare him with a GM of a sport with no cap. ****ing brilliant. ::)

Cashman isn't defined by a cap or the lack of a cap. He's defined by the winning teams he has assembled.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2011, 01:16 PM
Cashman isn't defined by a cap or the lack of a cap. He's defined by the winning teams he has assembled.

Being able to spend however amount of money to buy the best players you can doesn't give you advantage in your mind? Do you think he would be successfull with lets say the KC Royals budget?

He is defined by having the highest payroll with no championships. Not impressive.

DrFate
11-25-2011, 02:04 PM
While I understand your point, let's try to keep this on topic. ^5

I'm not making a judgement on Elway/Xanders/Fox. I think their first draft was a pretty good one (I'm a little disapointed that Irving hasn't earned more time). I think they mismanaged the QB situation for the first 5 games about as badly as possible. So it's a mixed bag.

It's silly to say ElwayisMillen after one (unusual) offseason and one draft. It's too early, without a doubt.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2011, 02:15 PM
While I understand your point, let's try to keep this on topic. ^5

I'm not making a judgement on Elway/Xanders/Fox. I think their first draft was a pretty good one (I'm a little disapointed that Irving hasn't earned more time). I think they mismanaged the QB situation for the first 5 games about as badly as possible. So it's a mixed bag.

It's silly to say ElwayisMillen after one (unusual) offseason and one draft. It's too early, without a doubt.

My point is Millen picked so many poor draft picks it was impossible for that team to improve. Did he hit once in the first rounds during his 6 years there? Elway did his first year. If we draft well things will come together. Sure the road has been bumpy to start but that should be expected out of a rookie FO guy like Elway.

TonyR
11-25-2011, 02:54 PM
It sure seems to me that Elway is on the road to becoming the next Matt Millen. I guess this means we can expect to see him in the broadcast booth in 2 or 3 years.

Stupid comments like this show just how crazy things have gotten. I mean, seriously? Elway hasn't even finished a year on the job and he's "on the road to becoming the next Matt Millen"? Really? Come back after Elway drafts a few busts in the first round and we're the worst team in the league. Until then, maybe breathe into a paper bag or something.

Agamemnon
11-25-2011, 02:59 PM
Name one draft pick Millen made that has made close to the impact of Elway's first pick as a GM? Tebow fans will do anything to toss a Broncos legend under the bus, cause they don't think he likes Tebow. Hilarious! John Elway was a winner in the NFL. John Elway built a winner in the AFL. John Elway will be a winner as a GM in Denver with or without Tebow.

Matt Millen drafted Megatron...

Blueflame
11-25-2011, 04:50 PM
Matt Millen drafted Megatron...

And in Megatron's second season, the Lions went 0-16, so your point is?

barryr
11-25-2011, 06:24 PM
Stupid comments like this show just how crazy things have gotten. I mean, seriously? Elway hasn't even finished a year on the job and he's "on the road to becoming the next Matt Millen"? Really? Come back after Elway drafts a few busts in the first round and we're the worst team in the league. Until then, maybe breathe into a paper bag or something.

Agreed, meanwhile Tebow has started 8 games, with learning an offense on the fly with a rebuilding team and without ever getting snaps as the starter in a training camp and he's already labeled a bust by some. Maybe both need time to prove themselves. Just a thought.

Hamrob
11-25-2011, 07:05 PM
This. Whether it is RG III to complement what Tebow is already doing in this offense, or Elway/Fox simply decides to go another direction entirely, I sincerely believe the Broncos will go QB in the 1st.Not a chance. I can't see it. They have a kid who is winning football games that was taken in the 1st round 2yrs ago. If they would have been in sneezing distance of Luck...that's a different story. Personally, I don't like Barkley, RGIII, Landry or Fowles....more than Tebow. I don't like any of those 4 guys more than I liked Cutler either. If you can't get Luck....wait.

Let's see what Tebow can do! Give the winner a chance to become a better passer.

oubronco
11-25-2011, 07:12 PM
It sure seems to me that Elway is on the road to becoming the next Matt Millen. I guess this means we can expect to see him in the broadcast booth in 2 or 3 years.

What a stupid comment. Do you really believe Elway is as bad as Millen? Unbelievable

oubronco
11-25-2011, 07:13 PM
Thats yet to be seen. The Broncos have made a pile of managerial mistakes already.

Not in everybody's eyes just In Tebowites eyes

Broncos_OTM
11-26-2011, 12:24 PM
You are talking about an unprecedented run on QBs in the top draft. The record for QBs taken in the entire first round is 6 (83)

5 QBs were taken in 1999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NFL_Draft

I listed those teams as potentially taking a QB. There won't be 6 QBs taken in the top ten.

Factor in the rookie wage scale the landscape of the draft is sure to change. not saying it will happen. but the chances of it happening are great.

Broncos_OTM
11-26-2011, 12:27 PM
This. Whether it is RG III to complement what Tebow is already doing in this offense, or Elway/Fox simply decides to go another direction entirely, I sincerely believe the Broncos will go QB in the 1st.

If they wanted to add to this offense it would be at RB. That is if they do believe tebow the future.

Agamemnon
11-26-2011, 02:33 PM
If they wanted to add to this offense it would be at RB. That is if they do believe tebow the future.

You sir are correct. Hell, even a true #1 receiver would be better than another QB if they want to actually improve this offense. Right now we have one genuinely good player (potentially two if you count Decker) amongst our skill players, and he's on the wrong side of 30. If we want our QB to succeed, we need some actual talent at the skill positions. Drafting another QB without any supporting players would be worse than pointless it seems to me.