PDA

View Full Version : So with Orton gone and Elway scouting, who do the Broncos draft?


Pontius Pirate
11-22-2011, 05:01 PM
Who do we bring in, regardless of how you feel about Tebow? Do we draft a top seed QB and have that person challenge Tebow? Or do we avoid an early round pick and maybe just go after another veteran?

Dr. Broncenstein
11-22-2011, 05:05 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/490/971/127997868_display_image.jpg?1319838950

Tombstone RJ
11-22-2011, 05:08 PM
The Broncos are already running a spread offense, if they draft a QB why not RG3? I don't think the Broncos will draft a QB in the first round if they continue to win but we shall see....

Dr. Broncenstein
11-22-2011, 05:11 PM
Put a big, nasty, physical corner opposite Champ on this defense and we are going places.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-22-2011, 05:15 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/490/971/127997868_display_image.jpg?1319838950

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS.

vonqkilla
11-22-2011, 05:16 PM
RG3 going top 15. Foles isnt real mobile Elway wants an athletic qb.

Gotta see how these last 6 play out.

HAT
11-22-2011, 05:18 PM
I know this is a joke thread but those choice are ridiculous. Barkley & RG3 could easily be top 5 depending on whose taking where....All 3 certainly go top 10 with Jones just outside of that.

If Foles is there in the late 40's it wouldn't shock me to see them pull the trigger.

1st rounder needs to be one of the CB's or MLB....Period.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:20 PM
Who do we bring in, regardless of how you feel about Tebow? Do we draft a top seed QB and have that person challenge Tebow? Or do we avoid an early round pick and maybe just go after another veteran?

http://www.brianchalfin.com/images/jokerserious.jpg

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:21 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/490/971/127997868_display_image.jpg?1319838950

He'll also prob be out of reach as much as I want him :/

RGIII is now a top 10 pick btw, no chance he's a late first early 2nd anymore.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:22 PM
RGIII is now a top 10 pick btw, no chance he's a late first early 2nd anymore.

There was never any chance that he was going to be a late 1st, early 2nd.

Pontius Pirate
11-22-2011, 05:22 PM
I know this is a joke thread but those choice are ridiculous. Barkley & RG3 could easily be top 5 depending on whose taking where....All 3 certainly go top 10 with Jones just outside of that.

If Foles is there in the late 40's it wouldn't shock me to see them pull the trigger.

1st rounder needs to be one of the CB's or MLB....Period.

Am I wrong or has Elway and Xanders been scouting all of the above? Why would they waste their time going to their games if they aren't seriously considering an early round qb pick?

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:24 PM
Am I wrong or has Elway and Xanders been scouting all of the above? Why would they waste their time going to their games if they aren't seriously considering an early round qb pick?

If Elway and Xanders are our professional scouts, we're in some serious trouble.

extralife
11-22-2011, 05:25 PM
The Broncos are already running a spread offense, if they draft a QB why not RG3? I don't think the Broncos will draft a QB in the first round if they continue to win but we shall see....

Because if they draft a QB early, it sure as **** won't be to keep the option.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:26 PM
People are also still working under the assumption that the passing game does not open up at all next season, which is a specious assumption.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:28 PM
Am I wrong or has Elway and Xanders been scouting all of the above? Why would they waste their time going to their games if they aren't seriously considering an early round qb pick?

Because that's their job?

HAT
11-22-2011, 05:28 PM
He'll also prob be out of reach as much as I want him :/

RGIII is now a top 10 pick btw, no chance he's a late first early 2nd anymore.

I wouldn't be so sure about that....It's possible that 8-9 of the top 10 are all on offense.

4 QBs, 2 WRs, 2 OTs & maybe Richardson?

12-16 is where the DBs and LBs will start coming off the board.

Dedhed
11-22-2011, 05:29 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/490/971/127997868_display_image.jpg?1319838950

I'd be down with that. Not sure he'll be around, but I would love to get him.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:30 PM
Because that's their job?

Does anyone really believe that they are scouting? That's usually done by a staff of scouts with alot of videotape with a formal evaluation process.

It seems to me like these guys are probably developing contacts.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:30 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about that....It's possible that 8-9 of the top 10 are all on offense.

4 QBs, 2 WRs, 2 OTs & maybe Richardson?

12-16 is where the DBs and LBs will start coming off the board.

Exactly. I repeat:

He'll also prob be out of reach as much as I want him :/

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:30 PM
Does anyone really believe that they are scouting? That's usually done by a staff of scouts with alot of videotape with a formal evaluation process.

It seems to me like these guys are probably developing contacts.

Yes, I do.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:32 PM
Yes, I do.

Why?

Dedhed
11-22-2011, 05:35 PM
RGIII is now a top 10 pick btw, no chance he's a late first early 2nd anymore.
I think that with RGIII's recent performances, and the perceived success of Cam Newton there's a high possibility that RGIII is the 2nd QB off the board.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:36 PM
Why?

Because they're both heavily involved in the evaluation process.

Are they sitting there typing out scouting reports? No. But they've received a lot of information from their scouts on these guys by this point and clearly wanted to see them in live fire situations for themselves while they still have an opportunity and good on them for that.

Pontius Pirate
11-22-2011, 05:36 PM
Fwiw:

Current ranking of all draft prospects:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

I think based on our current w/l were projected to pick around 17. I think kirkpatrick will be top 5 but I imagine there will be 2 or 3 of the above qb's available. As someone else mentioned, its unlikely that 5 of the top 17 teams will be desperate for a new qb

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:37 PM
I think that people concerned with scouting should look at where these guys are spending their time (probably in their offices with tape):

Keith Kidd (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Keith-Kidd/34853d1e-ff61-45c6-822f-15ddcb713519) - Director of Pro Personnel
Matt Russell (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Matt-Russell/e5bdd497-df28-41d6-b2b1-24b5a1ecea0e) - Director of College Scouting
Anthony Kelly (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Anthony-Kelly/2987abfe-2690-421e-9ee5-993b57a026bc) - Assistant Director of Pro Personnel
Lenny McGill (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Lenny-McGill/9c132612-a61f-424c-b27a-2c4332fb9a14) - Assistant Director of College Scouting
Adam Peters (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Adam-Peters/b9015341-ccf8-43f3-95d8-7db01c1a9b7f) - National Scout
Dave Bratten (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Dave-Bratten/d917be71-53f2-41fe-8ec8-03a8e02e9e11) - College Scouting Coordinator/Mountain Area Scout
Eugene Armstrong (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Eugene-Armstrong/bb8c25a3-401a-4a2a-b314-7ddaa4c92cf7) - Mid - South Area Scout
Scott DiStefano (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Scott-DiStefano/14e5ed8e-3f50-49eb-83fd-c2b9b180fbd5) - Midwest Area Scout
Cornell Green (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Cornell-Green/4a0e4e07-53ce-4264-a906-ed4e14f4dbbf) - Southwest Area Scout
Nick Schiralli (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Nick-Schiralli/c8a2404a-a010-4adf-836a-5db7dcca592e) - Atlantic Area Scout

(http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Meghan-Zobeck/da254794-43cc-4578-a654-607fe65908ec)

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:37 PM
Claiborne is so overrated :/

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:38 PM
Because they're both heavily involved in the evaluation process.

Are they sitting there typing out scouting reports? No. But they've received a lot of information from their scouts on these guys by this point and clearly wanted to see them in live fire situations for themselves while they still have an opportunity and good on them for that.

What is your proof that they are both "heavily involved" in the evaluation process?

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:41 PM
What is your proof that they are both "heavily involved" in the evaluation process?

Their ****ing job descriptions for one... is this a serious question...?

Pontius Pirate
11-22-2011, 05:42 PM
I think that people concerned with scouting should look at where these guys are spending their time (probably in their offices with tape):

Keith Kidd (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Keith-Kidd/34853d1e-ff61-45c6-822f-15ddcb713519) - Director of Pro Personnel
Matt Russell (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Matt-Russell/e5bdd497-df28-41d6-b2b1-24b5a1ecea0e) - Director of College Scouting
Anthony Kelly (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Anthony-Kelly/2987abfe-2690-421e-9ee5-993b57a026bc) - Assistant Director of Pro Personnel
Lenny McGill (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Lenny-McGill/9c132612-a61f-424c-b27a-2c4332fb9a14) - Assistant Director of College Scouting
Adam Peters (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Adam-Peters/b9015341-ccf8-43f3-95d8-7db01c1a9b7f) - National Scout
Dave Bratten (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Dave-Bratten/d917be71-53f2-41fe-8ec8-03a8e02e9e11) - College Scouting Coordinator/Mountain Area Scout
Eugene Armstrong (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Eugene-Armstrong/bb8c25a3-401a-4a2a-b314-7ddaa4c92cf7) - Mid - South Area Scout
Scott DiStefano (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Scott-DiStefano/14e5ed8e-3f50-49eb-83fd-c2b9b180fbd5) - Midwest Area Scout
Cornell Green (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Cornell-Green/4a0e4e07-53ce-4264-a906-ed4e14f4dbbf) - Southwest Area Scout
Nick Schiralli (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Nick-Schiralli/c8a2404a-a010-4adf-836a-5db7dcca592e) - Atlantic Area Scout

(http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Meghan-Zobeck/da254794-43cc-4578-a654-607fe65908ec)

So you're saying epic scouting smokescreen by elway and xanders?

SOUNDS LEGIT

HAT
11-22-2011, 05:44 PM
Am I wrong or has Elway and Xanders been scouting all of the above? Why would they waste their time going to their games if they aren't seriously considering an early round qb pick?

I didn't mean starting a thread about the Broncos possibly being interested in drafting for a QB....I meant that all 4 will be off the board by the time Denver picks.

My personal preference is to keep Tebow & Weber...Maybe draft Foles if he slips. And let them battle it out in a real training camp. I want Tebow on this team whether he's starting or not.

If they (EFX) are bound and determined to move on...Then I hope JAX starts tanking big time.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:46 PM
Their ****ing job descriptions for one... is this a serious question...?

Um...you do realize that scouting is only one aspect of Football Operations, right? No reason to get all butthurt and oversensitive because someone questioned something you said that was questionable.

Elway doesn't have time to micromanage scouting. Its ridiculous to even think such a thing.

The scouts may be using him as a subject matter expert or something similar, but the idea that Elway is micromanaging scouting is absurd.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:48 PM
So you're saying epic scouting smokescreen by elway and xanders?

SOUNDS LEGIT

Didn't say that at all.

Try again.

Jay3
11-22-2011, 05:50 PM
RG3 somewhere in the mid-teens.

Jay3
11-22-2011, 05:52 PM
I think that people concerned with scouting should look at where these guys are spending their time (probably in their offices with tape):

Keith Kidd (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Keith-Kidd/34853d1e-ff61-45c6-822f-15ddcb713519) - Director of Pro Personnel
Matt Russell (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Matt-Russell/e5bdd497-df28-41d6-b2b1-24b5a1ecea0e) - Director of College Scouting
Anthony Kelly (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Anthony-Kelly/2987abfe-2690-421e-9ee5-993b57a026bc) - Assistant Director of Pro Personnel
Lenny McGill (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Lenny-McGill/9c132612-a61f-424c-b27a-2c4332fb9a14) - Assistant Director of College Scouting
Adam Peters (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Adam-Peters/b9015341-ccf8-43f3-95d8-7db01c1a9b7f) - National Scout
Dave Bratten (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Dave-Bratten/d917be71-53f2-41fe-8ec8-03a8e02e9e11) - College Scouting Coordinator/Mountain Area Scout
Eugene Armstrong (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Eugene-Armstrong/bb8c25a3-401a-4a2a-b314-7ddaa4c92cf7) - Mid - South Area Scout
Scott DiStefano (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Scott-DiStefano/14e5ed8e-3f50-49eb-83fd-c2b9b180fbd5) - Midwest Area Scout
Cornell Green (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Cornell-Green/4a0e4e07-53ce-4264-a906-ed4e14f4dbbf) - Southwest Area Scout
Nick Schiralli (http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Nick-Schiralli/c8a2404a-a010-4adf-836a-5db7dcca592e) - Atlantic Area Scout

(http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/staff/Meghan-Zobeck/da254794-43cc-4578-a654-607fe65908ec)

They're in their offices carrying out their orders to "find a quarterback with the heart, the guts, and the running ability of Tim Tebow, and who can throw it better."

It's not going well.

HAT
11-22-2011, 05:52 PM
Exactly. I repeat:

And I hope you're right...Lot of football to be played though.
Right now you have 14 teams under .500, 4 teams at .500 & 14 over.

9-7 looks about where Denver is finishing.

Pontius Pirate
11-22-2011, 05:53 PM
I think you did but we'll agree to disagree, respectfully of course. Care for a spot of tea?

Note: typing on a phone from a bar at the airport is hard

HILife
11-22-2011, 05:53 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hMm2qGMGV8Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uO3QkCbt0ys" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IZsQWIoC1Ic" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:53 PM
Um...you do realize that scouting is only one aspect of Football Operations, right? No reason to get all butthurt and oversensitive because someone questioned something you said that was questionable.

Elway doesn't have time to micromanage scouting. Its ridiculous to even think such a thing.

The scouts may be using him as a subject matter expert or something similar, but the idea that Elway is micromanaging scouting is absurd.

Going to a few games is not micromanaging scouting, genius.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:53 PM
And I hope you're right...Lot of football to be played though.
Right now you have 14 teams under .500, 4 teams at .500 & 14 over.

9-7 looks about where Denver is finishing.

I'd be thrilled if we traded up to take him though, holes on the team be damned.

HAT
11-22-2011, 05:57 PM
I'd be thrilled if we traded up to take him though, holes on the team be damned.

Are you prepared for another draft season of being labeled the "CB guy"

:wiggle:

Don't get me wrong....I wanted PP to until the week before the draft. Look at this way. AZ has there guy and that's one more team who won't be drafting CB prior to the Broncos pick. :thumbs:

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 05:57 PM
Going to a few games is not micromanaging scouting, genius.

No need to get all broken down emotionally over bringing this up, fella.


Traveling every weekend to "scout QB's" is certainly micromanaging scouting. That's usually what organizations do with their, you know, scouts.

Its possible that the scouts are filing reports on QB's for Elway and that he is traveling, but that doesn't seem like something you want an executive on your staff doing. That's what you hire subject matter experts for. At least thats what managers usually do.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:58 PM
Are you prepared for another draft season of being labeled the "CB guy"

:wiggle:

Don't get me wrong....I wanted PP to until the week before the draft. Look at this way. AZ has there guy and that's one more team who won't be drafting CB prior to the Broncos pick. :thumbs:

As long as we need one and there's someone special to be had, I'm fine being that guy.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 05:59 PM
No need to get all broken down emotionally over bringing this up, fella.


Traveling every weekend to "scout QB's" is certainly micromanaging scouting. That's usually what organizations do with their, you know, scouts.

Its possible that the scouts are filing reports on QB's for Elway and that he is traveling, but that doesn't seem like something you want an executive on your staff doing. That's what you hire subject matter experts for. At least thats what managers usually do.

You're an idiot. From start to finish. It's almost impressive.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:01 PM
You're an idiot. From start to finish. It's almost impressive.

You're sensitive and easily rattled.

There's no reason to throw such a hissy fit when your ideas are challenged. You're just some guy with some opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Dedhed
11-22-2011, 06:04 PM
its unlikely that 5 of the top 17 teams will be desperate for a new qb

But easily four, and after that you're looking at 2nd rate players at the position.

Rolandftw
11-22-2011, 06:09 PM
As far as Qb's I don't think we draft one, at least high. Guess that changes if the team goes winless in their next six games. We're almost certainly out of the running for a top QB, unless EFX are willing to trade two or three additional picks to be able to move up.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:09 PM
But easily four, and after that you're looking at 2nd rate players at the position.

Luck, Barkley, and RGIII will all go around the top 10.

After that there's nobody worth looking at as a possible improvement for Tebow.

As someone who watches and pulls for Landry Jones every week, I'm not convinced that he's any better at maximum than Kyle Orton in the pro's. He's the definition of immobile, and he goes through periods of innacuracy over the course of the game. He's not the QB that Bradford was. Bradford was eye-poppingly good. Jones just isn't there. I wouldnt be surprised if he came back next season.

Rolandftw
11-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Barkley, RGIII, and Jones could all go back for their senior season. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see two come back for one more year.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 06:13 PM
Barkley, RGIII, and Jones could all go back for their senior season. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see two come back for one more year.

Technically so could Luck.

Jones is the only one that might do it, imo.

vonqkilla
11-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Keith Kidds kid is next Wes Welker. Heard it here first!

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Barkley, RGIII, and Jones could all go back for their senior season. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see two come back for one more year.

I think that all of them except for Jones will come out. USC has its problems, Baylor never has a chance, and Luck's stock will never be higher.

As for Jones, there will be incentive because OU has alot of good young players coming back next season and he might be pushed back in the draft by the aforementioned QB's.

Rolandftw
11-22-2011, 06:16 PM
Technically so could Luck.

Jones is the only one that might do it, imo.

You don't think RGIII could? Hard to say, but he could go #1 in 2013 if he waits. Maybe that kind of thing doesn't matter much to him though.

HAT
11-22-2011, 06:19 PM
Barkley, RGIII, and Jones could all go back for their senior season. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see two come back for one more year.

I think Barkley is the most intriguing in that regard.....

USC coming off their sanctions
Great young WRs in Woods & Lee
Chance to own the PAC12 out of Luck's shadow.

We'll see.

HAT
11-22-2011, 06:21 PM
Keith Kidds kid is next Wes Welker. Heard it here first!

That's racist?

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 06:21 PM
You don't think RGIII could? Hard to say, but he could go #1 in 2013 if he waits. Maybe that kind of thing doesn't matter much to him though.

Why though?

Top 10 is great money and not nearly as dramatic a difference to #1 as it was under the old CBA. Potentially risking your career is stupid (to me, at least).

Perry1977
11-22-2011, 06:26 PM
Okay I give up. Who the hell is RG3?

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:28 PM
Okay I give up. Who the hell is RG3?

The next Michael Vick.

He plays QB at Baylor.

CEH
11-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Put me down for Ryan Tannehill in the 2nd with a trade up using our 5th from the Rams

KevinJames
11-22-2011, 06:33 PM
Rev remember this about a month ago

4th rounder

RG3 is going to be a 1st rounder
no way he goes any later than the 2nd round..
Funniest thing I've heard in weeks.

LOL


RGIII is now a top 10 pick btw, no chance he's a late first early 2nd anymore.

:welcome: welcome to reality lol

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 06:34 PM
Rev remember this about a month ago





LOL



:welcome: welcome to reality lol

Haha, I do and repped.

I still don't like him, btw.

Rolandftw
11-22-2011, 06:35 PM
Why though?

Top 10 is great money and not nearly as dramatic a difference to #1 as it was under the old CBA. Potentially risking your career is stupid (to me, at least).

I agree, but a lot of times there seems to be a QB that you think will come out for sure that doesn't (Leinart in 2005 draft, Bradford, Locker in 2010 draft; Luck in 2011 draft).

A lot of these kids don't want to be Aaron Rodgers (from a draft perspective)--the second or third rated QB in the draft, that slips because teams aren't willing to trade up to get him AND don't think he's worth a top pick.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:35 PM
Rev remember this about a month ago

:welcome: welcome to reality lol

Anyone whe sees Griffin III regularly has known for awhile that he's going to be right around the top ten when he comes out.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-22-2011, 06:37 PM
I've only watched RG3 for one full game, but damn...

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:37 PM
Put me down for Ryan Tannehill in the 2nd with a trade up using our 5th from the Rams

Tannehill is a gamble.

He looks like a great athlete who just cant get his brain out of the way.

KevinJames
11-22-2011, 06:38 PM
Haha, I do and repped.

I still don't like him, btw.

Fair enough but what if hes there when we pick in the 2nd round for some reason, gotta take him don't we? Even if it just a backup plan to Tebow?

GreatBronco16
11-22-2011, 06:40 PM
My son wants us to draft Trent Richardson......So as much as I don't want us to take a RB in the first, I'll have to go with Richardson.;D

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 06:40 PM
Fair enough but what if hes there when we pick in the 2nd round for some reason, gotta take him don't we? Even if it just a backup plan to Tebow?

For me? No.

I'm stubborn on this though. I still think Cam Newton should've been a 6th rounder :)

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:40 PM
Fair enough but what if hes there when we pick in the 2nd round for some reason, gotta take him don't we? Even if it just a backup plan to Tebow?

No.

Denver has too many needs and has to get a hit on too many draft picks to take any fliers on what could even be perceived as a backup player.

Denver needs 3-4 starters out of this draft and needs at least 1 or 2 of them to be studs.

KevinJames
11-22-2011, 06:43 PM
No.

Denver has too many needs and has to get a hit on too many draft picks to take any fliers on what could even be perceived as a backup player.

Denver needs 3-4 starters out of this draft and needs at least 1 or 2 of them to be studs.

Yeah I hear that but if we keep running with Tebow we are going to need a QB with a similar style to be a backup that we can feel comfortable with if Tim ever got banged up. What would be some other options in the later rounds?

For me? No.

I'm stubborn on this though. I still think Cam Newton should've been a 6th rounder :)

haha oh yeah at least your response in that RG3 thread wasn't as bad as Agamemnon

And I take it you think he's a better NFL prospect than Tebow? Seriously? Hilarious!
:spit:

Perry1977
11-22-2011, 06:44 PM
The next Michael Vick.

He plays QB at Baylor.

Thanks. I'm a Broncos fan, not a sports fan, so I don't pay attention to anything else. I learn all I can about the draft prospects closer to draft time, though.

That said, I do know that if Tebow can consistently win, I would be all for taking Richardson in the 1st. Even though I would never have advocated that a month ago.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 06:45 PM
haha oh yeah at least your response in that RG3 thread wasn't as bad as Agamemnon


:spit:

I do agree with him.

Not trying to diminish the amazing season he's had, but I'm just hyper wary of guys who only have 1 season at a really high level.

Rolandftw
11-22-2011, 06:45 PM
Fair enough but what if hes there when we pick in the 2nd round for some reason, gotta take him don't we? Even if it just a backup plan to Tebow?

If Denver's convinced he's the answer at QB, then yeah they should take him there.

I don't think there's anyway he escapes the top five picks. Might go as high as #2. Don't think we'll be faced with that dilemma.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
11-22-2011, 06:47 PM
I think at this point, the Top 10 or so selection will be:

1) Indianapolis - QB Andrew Luck
2) St. Louis - OT Matt Kalil
3) Jacksonville - WR Justin Blackmon
4) Minnesota - OT Johnathan Martin
5) Washington - QB Robert Griffin
6) Miami - QB Landry Jones
7) Arizona - OT Riley Reiff
8) Carolina - WR Alshon Jeffrey
9) Seattle - QB Matt Barkley
10) Cleveland - RB Trent Richardson
11) Kansas City - DE/LB Whitney Mercilus
12) Tampa Bay - CB Morris Claiborne

and then any mix of teams, including Denver, for the next pick with the best prospects left including:

CB Dre Kirkpatrick
DT/DE Quinton Coples
LB Zach Brown
LB Vontaze Burfict
LB Manti Te'o
LB Luke Kuechly
WR Michael Floyd
DT Devon Still
DT Kawann Short
QB Ryan Tannehill
OT Mike Adams
OT Ricky Wagner
OG David DeCastro
OC Peter Konz

So, lots of options, although not all of the underclassmen will come out.


My guess right now is that we end up with Tannehill, probably by trading down in the 1st Round.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:48 PM
Thanks. I'm a Broncos fan, not a sports fan, so I don't pay attention to anything else. I learn all I can about the draft prospects closer to draft time, though.

That said, I do know that if Tebow can consistently win, I would be all for taking Richardson in the 1st. Even though I would never have advocated that a month ago.

The Broncos need to think about drafting backs who catch the ball and accelerate in a flash. I don't know if Trent fits that mold, but if he does, then Denver has to look at it.

The only real big play threat in the offense is Tebow right now. McGahee is next in line to a lesser extent, but the offense needs some wicked playmaker type explosive athletes. Thats why they were trying to get Harvin from Minny.

I wanted us to get Demarco Murray last season, but alas...no worky.

Having a player who is a threat to take the ball to the house when he gets it would really help the offense.

KevinJames
11-22-2011, 06:49 PM
I do agree with him.

Not trying to diminish the amazing season he's had, but I'm just hyper wary of guys who only have 1 season at a really high level.
I know it wasn't an outstanding season like this year but hes not a one year wonder his 2010 season was nothing to sneeze at.

DBroncos4life
11-22-2011, 06:51 PM
Blackmon and Lavonte David are still tops my list.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 06:56 PM
Blackmon and Lavonte David are still tops my list.

Its going to suck if we have to draft another WR high on the board.

Since 2006:

Plummer and Walker out
Cutler and Marshall in

Cutler and Marshall out
Orton and Lloyd in

Orton/Lloyd/Gaffney out
Tebow/Decker in


At some point this franchise is going to have to start maximizing their resources.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 06:58 PM
I know it wasn't an outstanding season like this year but hes not a one year wonder his 2010 season was nothing to sneeze at.

Agree. Good but not great. And before that? Nada really. I'm sure tons of teams are drooling over him as is though and I'm thrilled for him about all the success he's been having this season.

...But I still wouldn't touch it early

Perry1977
11-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Agreed. What about taking Richardson in the first and then a guy like Demps in the third? Not sure how high he will go but even Darren Sproles lasted until the 4th.

That could give us an awesome 1-2 punch for years in a run-first offense.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bW4X664GRt0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


The Broncos need to think about drafting backs who catch the ball and accelerate in a flash. I don't know if Trent fits that mold, but if he does, then Denver has to look at it.

The only real big play threat in the offense is Tebow right now. McGahee is next in line to a lesser extent, but the offense needs some wicked playmaker type explosive athletes. Thats why they were trying to get Harvin from Minny.

I wanted us to get Demarco Murray last season, but alas...no worky.

Having a player who is a threat to take the ball to the house when he gets it would really help the offense.

DBroncos4life
11-22-2011, 07:01 PM
Its going to suck if we have to draft another WR high on the board.

Since 2006:

Plummer and Walker out
Cutler and Marshall in

Cutler and Marshall out
Orton and Lloyd in

Orton/Lloyd/Gaffney out
Tebow/Decker in


At some point this franchise is going to have to start maximizing their resources.
We wouldn't be looking for WRs if we kept the good ones we get around. We should be playing with Gaff, Marshall, and Lloyd right now instead of Thomas, Decker, and I can't remember his name.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 07:03 PM
Agreed. What about taking Richardson in the first and then a guy like Demps in the third? Not sure how high he will go but even Darren Sproles lasted until the 4th.

That could give us an awesome 1-2 punch for years in a run-first offense.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bW4X664GRt0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Demps would be a perfect fit. Bravo. I hadn't considered him before, but he'd come right out of the Florida offense too. I'd take him in the second round and play him as an RB/WR flex player who is involved in the option as much as he runs routes.

That would be a great fit, and exactly what I was thinking. Good suggestion.

robbieopperude
11-22-2011, 07:06 PM
I am thinking we go DB/LB in Round 1 unless Richardson is there and BPA in round 2. For once I was hoping there would be a highly regarded TE on the board but there doesn't appear to be for round 2.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 07:07 PM
Agreed. What about taking Richardson in the first and then a guy like Demps in the third? Not sure how high he will go but even Darren Sproles lasted until the 4th.

That could give us an awesome 1-2 punch for years in a run-first offense.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bW4X664GRt0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Better yet, let's use every pick on the shortest shelf life position in the NFL

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Better yet, let's use every pick on the shortest shelf life position in the NFL

Denver needs explosiveness in the offense. There is a need for a player who is dangerous in the screen game. Spending a second or third round pick on a guy like that is standard fare. Its what you have to spend on one.

I'm pretty sure that the staff has already earmarked that as something that they will add in the draft if possible. Whether its someone like Demps, or someone like Ryan Broyles, its going to happen.

HAT
11-22-2011, 07:11 PM
Better yet, let's use every pick on the shortest shelf life position in the NFL

With how far the D has come in such a short time under Allen....
With how Miller is already the heart & soul of this team....

I'm amazed when people talk RB/WR in the 1st round in 2012.

I want a bad ass MIKE but will "settle" for a bad ass CB that Champ can groom and that will facilitate Champs move to a bad ass safety.

HAT
11-22-2011, 07:13 PM
Denver needs explosiveness in the offense. There is a need for a player who is dangerous in the screen game. Spending a second or third round pick on a guy like that is standard fare. Its what you have to spend on one.

I'm pretty sure that the staff has already earmarked that as something that they will add in the draft if possible. Whether its someone like Demps, or someone like Ryan Broyles, its going to happen.

3rd round speedster I'm okay with....Richardson in the 1st, not so much.

CEH
11-22-2011, 07:16 PM
3rd round speedster I'm okay with....Richardson in the 1st, not so much.

LaMicheal James?

Dr. Broncenstein
11-22-2011, 07:17 PM
Joe Adams

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/byPjkmgUcWg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/k81jKSmAGHk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

HAT
11-22-2011, 07:19 PM
LaMicheal James?

If they hitch their wagon to Tebow....Yes, please!

DBroncos4life
11-22-2011, 07:21 PM
I don't know how long we will be running this system but LaMichael James is the perfect choice for it right now.

KevinJames
11-22-2011, 07:26 PM
If we could somehow pull off

Dre Kirkpatrick in the 1st round
LaMicheal James in the 2nd round or even 3rd round (I got a feeling he will rise from a great 40 time though)

would be great.

Perry1977
11-22-2011, 07:37 PM
Better yet, let's use every pick on the shortest shelf life position in the NFL

How good do you feel about a one-year-older McGahee and a surgically repaired Knowshon in the backfield next year? I mean if we decide to stick with Tebow, he's gonna need some help.

Reaching for a DT in the middle of round 1 isn't going to be a good value for that pick, especially in this draft. Maybe a top-flight corner if one falls, since our secondary is so old. But if we get a chance to pick up a legit top-10 talent at RB I think we should do it, especially since we will be running the rock so much.

Also, if it's the shortest shelf-life position in the NFL...don't you have to pick more of them? ;)

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 07:48 PM
How good do you feel about a one-year-older McGahee and a surgically repaired Knowshon in the backfield next year? I mean if we decide to stick with Tebow, he's gonna need some help.

Reaching for a DT in the middle of round 1 isn't going to be a good value for that pick, especially in this draft. Maybe a top-flight corner if one falls, since our secondary is so old. But if we get a chance to pick up a legit top-10 talent at RB I think we should do it, especially since we will be running the rock so much.

Also, if it's the shortest shelf-life position in the NFL...don't you have to pick more of them? ;)

How would you feel if we'd spent the Moreno pick on someone worth a ****? Like another blue chip OL?

There are so many talented athletes at RB and so few game changers like Peterson that it's downright stupid to spend high picks on them.

Give me Kirkpatrick if anyway feasible. A hope for a Devon Still slide to the 2nd. And Nix in the 3rd to solidify the IOL.

Jay3
11-22-2011, 07:50 PM
How good do you feel about a one-year-older McGahee and a surgically repaired Knowshon in the backfield next year? I mean if we decide to stick with Tebow, he's gonna need some help.

It's a multi-year sabotage program. The Broncos have figure out if they just lose massively every year, they get a great draft pick every year. The trick is to balance it just right and not bring in players who will help Tebow win.

Tom Brady
11-22-2011, 07:55 PM
Luke Kuechly out of BC is also a strong possibility. ILB isn't the biggest position of need, but this guy is such an animal.

HAT
11-22-2011, 08:07 PM
Luke Kuechly out of BC is also a strong possibility. ILB isn't the biggest position of need, but this guy is such an animal.

Yes....It is.

peacepipe
11-22-2011, 09:42 PM
the sad thing is rg3 will not be our pick. elway wants a drop back passer,jones,barkley will be our pick. the option ends this yr.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 09:43 PM
Yes....It is.

No.....It isn't.

Armchair Bronco
11-22-2011, 09:44 PM
If Elway and Xanders are our professional scouts, we're in some serious trouble.

They are...and we are.

epicSocialism4tw
11-22-2011, 09:48 PM
Joe Adams

Freak.

I'm in.

robbieopperude
11-23-2011, 01:44 AM
If Denver wins games against K.C & Minni I see us at a minimum of 7 wins this season. Barring a trade I can't see Denver having any shot at any of the QB's in Round 1 and likely won't be in on Foles for RD2. After watching the reaches in the draft last season I imagine teams will be jumping ahead of each other in RD 2 to get Foles.

Luke, Dre, or Vontaze in the first and BPA in the 2nd. I am hoping that would be James out of Oregon.
If we are going all in with Tebow then I am for getting him the speedsters out of Florida or others in RDs 3-5. I would also consider taking a flyer on Rodney Stewart out of Colorado in rd 7. He has proven to be a very shifty back who picks up blitzes and does a good job in the screen game.
So again. LB/DB Round 1
Weapons for Tebow for the rest of the rounds.
Let Royal walk at the end of the season and let D.Thomas and E.Decker be our main WR's next season. With the speedsters working in on the option plays.
Sign a QB to help tutor Tebow on defensive schemes. Someone like Mark Brunell or keep who we have now.

ol#7
11-23-2011, 03:24 AM
IF Denver is on track on the rebuild, then Tebow needs to pan out. If he fails, were still 3 years away, but if he can turn the corner, were contenders next year if we draft well and make smart FA moves.

I still think this team needs to go heavy on Defense and now is the time to draft a CB/MLB if we are in position to.

Going to pull a ghostbusters move and cross potentially deadly streams here, but I think that if they were to sign Hillis in FA, then the backfield would be deadly. Plus he catches the ball well. I think he's done in Cleveland either way.

Need OL depth too, but were starting to fill some wholes for the first time in awhile.

Bronco Yoda
11-23-2011, 04:35 AM
Not long ago we had Gaff and Lloyd. Now look at what we have. I can't believe we're actually going to need to draft a WR.... but we will now most likely. Unbelievable.

Drek
11-23-2011, 05:31 AM
Luck = #1 pick to the Colts, will not be traded, Manning isn't playing real contact football again in his life.

RG3 = Staying another year in school, come out next year.

Barkley/Jones = I expect one to stay for another season, the other to come out. Early guess would be Barkley coming out, Jones staying.

So as I see it Luck goes #1, Barkley goes in the top 10, and since most other teams have committed themselves to young QBs long term Foles falls into the late 2nd/early 3rd.

I could see us going Foles if the picks align, but other than that we'll miss out on Luck and Barkley. Tannehill in the middle rounds or a little later round flier on Kellen Moore would seem like a reasonable path.

My personal bet is that after missing out on Luck we'll give Tebow another year with a mid-rounder and a vet backup to fill out the position, targetting RG3/Geno Smith/the one still in school out of Barkley and Jones, with EJ Manuel as a dark horse to go flying up the list.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 05:57 AM
Not long ago we had Gaff and Lloyd. Now look at what we have. I can't believe we're actually going to need to draft a WR.... but we will now most likely. Unbelievable.

We just might have problems with WRs, Yoda... I haven't seen it mentioned here but on one of the sports programs today I saw Jerry Rice (arguably the best WR of all time) stating that (from a WR's perspective) he would find it "frustrating" to play with Tim Tebow at QB.

CEH
11-23-2011, 07:15 AM
No.....It isn't.

All things being equal, I think CB is the #1 priority

elsid13
11-23-2011, 07:35 AM
Luck = #1 pick to the Colts, will not be traded, Manning isn't playing real contact football again in his life.

RG3 = Staying another year in school, come out next year.

Barkley/Jones = I expect one to stay for another season, the other to come out. Early guess would be Barkley coming out, Jones staying.

So as I see it Luck goes #1, Barkley goes in the top 10, and since most other teams have committed themselves to young QBs long term Foles falls into the late 2nd/early 3rd.

I could see us going Foles if the picks align, but other than that we'll miss out on Luck and Barkley. Tannehill in the middle rounds or a little later round flier on Kellen Moore would seem like a reasonable path.

My personal bet is that after missing out on Luck we'll give Tebow another year with a mid-rounder and a vet backup to fill out the position, targetting RG3/Geno Smith/the one still in school out of Barkley and Jones, with EJ Manuel as a dark horse to go flying up the list.

Tannehill will go before Foles in the late 1st/early 2nd. There is more potential there and I wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan doesn't make a run on him.

elsid13
11-23-2011, 07:57 AM
Luck = #1 pick to the Colts, will not be traded, Manning isn't playing real contact football again in his life.

RG3 = Staying another year in school, come out next year.

Barkley/Jones = I expect one to stay for another season, the other to come out. Early guess would be Barkley coming out, Jones staying.

So as I see it Luck goes #1, Barkley goes in the top 10, and since most other teams have committed themselves to young QBs long term Foles falls into the late 2nd/early 3rd.

I could see us going Foles if the picks align, but other than that we'll miss out on Luck and Barkley. Tannehill in the middle rounds or a little later round flier on Kellen Moore would seem like a reasonable path.

My personal bet is that after missing out on Luck we'll give Tebow another year with a mid-rounder and a vet backup to fill out the position, targetting RG3/Geno Smith/the one still in school out of Barkley and Jones, with EJ Manuel as a dark horse to go flying up the list.

Tannehill will go before Foles in the late 1st/early 2nd. There is more potential there and I wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan doesn't make a run on him.

jhns
11-23-2011, 08:02 AM
We just might have problems with WRs, Yoda... I haven't seen it mentioned here but on one of the sports programs today I saw Jerry Rice (arguably the best WR of all time) stating that (from a WR's perspective) he would find it "frustrating" to play with Tim Tebow at QB.

This isn't college. If we draft a guy, he has to retire if he doesn't like it.

CEH
11-23-2011, 08:25 AM
Book it short of a playoff bid or marked improvement in the passing game Denver will draft a QB. RGIII will be the top target. Elway is not out there scouting safeties or LBers

Broncos_OTM
11-23-2011, 08:45 AM
The Broncos are already running a spread offense, if they draft a QB why not RG3? I don't think the Broncos will draft a QB in the first round if they continue to win but we shall see....
It Denver truly is going to draft a QB this year. It will be the best qQB available. I doubt we draft a guy strictly cause he can run the triple option. And if we did how would tebow play into it all? playing in a FB role? that might be another fold to it if our FB could pass..

Mile High Mojoe
11-23-2011, 08:47 AM
I only wish there were on option on these never ending QB draft polls as follows:

“ It's to early to speculate and I’m tired of these irrelevant and useless QB polls and want very badly to beat the originator of such polls to a savage bloody pulp.”

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 08:57 AM
Book it short of a playoff bid or marked improvement in the passing game Denver will draft a QB. RGIII will be the top target. Elway is not out there scouting safeties or LBers

Might be that Elway's only interested in QB's because that's what he's comfortable with. I'd hope he'd leave scouting safeties or LB's to the experts.

And by experts, of course I mean orangemane.com members. :)

peacepipe
11-23-2011, 08:58 AM
Book it short of a playoff bid or marked improvement in the passing game Denver will draft a QB. RGIII will be the top target. Elway is not out there scouting safeties or LBers

I doubt RGIII is the target,might as well keep tebow.

colonelbeef
11-23-2011, 09:00 AM
I like Tebow, and think he has a future as a great hybrid FB, however I can still take off the orange tinted glasses and see why Elway wants another player at QB.

My vote reflects this reality despite recent successes.

All of this hype from the fanbase reminds me of the hype coming from the fanboys following McDaniels' hollow 5-0 start

TheReverend
11-23-2011, 09:24 AM
All things being equal, I think CB is the #1 priority

By a mile yes.

TheReverend
11-23-2011, 09:38 AM
If Denver wins games against K.C & Minni I see us at a minimum of 7 wins this season.

Soooooooooo... you're saying if we win 2 more games, you see us at a minimum of 7 wins...?

Agamemnon
11-23-2011, 10:55 AM
By a mile yes.

I tend to think it's a tie between RB and CB right now personally. We have to get a young, talented back to keep this running game viable with an aging McGahee and pretty much no one else, and seeing as our offense is predicated on running nearly every down that makes it just as big a need as corner. Corner's the bigger glaring hole talent-wise, but overall I think the positions are equal in terms of overall need.

Agamemnon
11-23-2011, 10:57 AM
I like Tebow, and think he has a future as a great hybrid FB, however I can still take off the orange tinted glasses and see why Elway wants another player at QB.

My vote reflects this reality despite recent successes.

All of this hype from the fanbase reminds me of the hype coming from the fanboys following McDaniels' hollow 5-0 start

What logic is involved in the mental process of a person that is willing to give up on a QB eight starts into his career, four of which have been spectacular comebacks that he has engineered? On a bad team mind you.

I'm really very curious...

BroncoMan4ever
11-23-2011, 11:18 AM
i say unless Tebow gets dramatically better on 3rd downs, and shows a vast improvement on his passing ability that QB is still the target. and I would bet on someone like Nick Foles who although is a bit raw, has tremendous upside or Tannehill in the 2nd.

if Tebow improves and QB is not the need in Elway's eyes, it would not surprise me to see us take a RB in the 1st. this is a John Fox offense and he wants to pound the rock and at McGahee's age he can't stand up to 300+ carries a season, he will need someone to share the load. Richardson wouldn't surprise me.

BroncoMan4ever
11-23-2011, 11:24 AM
i can't see us taking RG3. to me taking him means we are sticking with this offense and bringing in an insurance case to backup Tebow in the case of likely injury.

Elway doesn't want this offense, i have my doubts that Fox and McCoy want it. i think this is just a season long plan because nothing else would work. I think we are going after a QB and right now about where we are picking is where Foles will probably be expected to go.

Durango
11-23-2011, 11:50 AM
I voted for RG III on the premise that the Broncos will mold this team around the current option-style system, and I could be way off-base there.

Tebow/RGIII, wow. In this system re-shaped to fit Tebows best skills, the two of them could turn the league on it's ear.

CEH
11-23-2011, 12:03 PM
Talk is when it is all said and done Tannehill will go before Landry Jones

OrangeCrush2724
11-23-2011, 12:03 PM
i say unless Tebow gets dramatically better on 3rd downs, and shows a vast improvement on his passing ability that QB is still the target. and I would bet on someone like Nick Foles who although is a bit raw, has tremendous upside or Tannehill in the 2nd.

if Tebow improves and QB is not the need in Elway's eyes, it would not surprise me to see us take a RB in the 1st. this is a John Fox offense and he wants to pound the rock and at McGahee's age he can't stand up to 300+ carries a season, he will need someone to share the load. Richardson wouldn't surprise me.

This. Although IMO DT is the most needed position on defense.

jhns
11-23-2011, 12:13 PM
I am starting to think that this front office will be in real trouble if Tebow fails. They made a horrible choice to start this season. They picked the wrong QB and actually thought he gave us the best chance to win. This was while they only had four guys to chosr from. This was with actual NFL game tape on three of them. Fox has had bad QB play for years now.

People really think they are going to select the right QB from a much larger pool of players? Players who haven't already played in this league? I don't know what is giving you this confidence. It sure isn't based on what they have done in the past.

ØrangeÇrush
11-23-2011, 12:23 PM
Ryan Lindley in the 2nd or 3rd round.

barryr
11-23-2011, 12:28 PM
Any QB the Broncos take will take time to develop, so chances are they will not take a QB in the 1st round unless someone projected to go high drops to them.

There is no sure thing type QB in this draft, especially after Luck. Having a system that the QB can thrive in is also important.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 12:29 PM
They made a horrible choice to start this season. They picked the wrong QB and actually thought he gave us the best chance to win.

If you'd open your eyes you'd understand this. Orton ran the offense better. And when I say "offense" I'm referring to the offense they started the season with. Tebow couldn't make the throws and just didn't have the grasp of the offense Orton did. When Orton and that offense failed miserably they decided they had nothing to lose and they inserted Tebow and an offense to suit him. Let's not pretend the rarely pass, read option offense was what they had in mind when they started the season.

jhns
11-23-2011, 12:36 PM
If you'd open your eyes you'd understand this. Orton ran the offense better. And when I say "offense" I'm referring to the offense they started the season with. Tebow couldn't make the throws and just didn't have the grasp of the offense Orton did. When Orton and that offense failed miserably they decided they had nothing to lose and they inserted Tebow and an offense to suit him. Let's not pretend the rarely pass, read option offense was what they had in mind when they started the season.

Really? By better, you mean less points and wins, right? Before this team changed offenses, it was scoring more under Tebow. It had a better win % under Tebow.

Your logic doesn't jive with the facts. Sorry.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 12:41 PM
Your logic doesn't jive with the facts. Sorry.

Did you see Tebow in camp before the season? Did you watch the Detroit game?

jhns
11-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Did you see Tebow in camp before the season? Did you watch the Detroit game?

Yes. Now what is your point? Orton gives us the best chance to win?

What a joke.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 12:47 PM
Orton gives us the best chance to win?


Clearly no. But Orton ran the base offense better. Tebow needs to far surpass Orton's ability in that style of offense before he can be the QBOTF. If you don't believe me, ask John Elway. The offense we're running now, as well as Tebow runs it, is not the long term answer. You're a fool if you think it is.

JDB7821
11-23-2011, 12:50 PM
If Tebow shows enough for Elway to move forward with him, then I think offensive line should be considered in the first round. I think the point of the Broncos offense might be to get bigger and stronger than the rest of the NFL (starts with Tebow) and go from there. That's why I think if not Richardson, then Cordy Glenn makes a lot of sense. An absolute monster at 6'5 350 who has experience at tackle, but will obviously work best at guard. Tebow running behind him with someone like LaMichael James if possible would be deadly.

jhns
11-23-2011, 12:53 PM
Clearly no. But Orton ran the base offense better. Tebow needs to far surpass Orton's ability in that style of offense before he can be the QBOTF. If you don't believe me, ask John Elway. The offense we're running now, as well as Tebow runs it, is not the long term answer. You're a fool if you think it is.

Tebow scored more points and had a better win % in that offense. You continue to say Orton ran it better. Wtf is wrong witj your head? What exactly do you consider better to be?

If Orton doesn't give this team the best chance to win, they made the wrong choice. There is no spin that will change this fact. You arguing against this simple logic is pretty funny. You aren't a hater or anything!...

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:20 PM
This isn't college. If we draft a guy, he has to retire if he doesn't like it.

No, it's not college, Jhns. But WRs' careers... like any other players'... are heavily dependent on their stats. And let's face it, none of the Broncos' WRs have a snowball's chance in the proverbial hot place of making the Pro Bowl, especially now that Tebow's starting. Regardless of whether it's because his running ability makes the ground game a smarter move by the coaches... or whether it's that his accuracy issues cause the coaches to call fewer passing plays... the end result is that our best WR's numbers are comparable to other teams' second or third WRs. And whether or not anyone wants to admit it, this is why Lloyd wanted out the minute Tebow was named the starter. He knew that with Tebow, our WRs' stats were gonna suck... and that the WRs were going to be the ones blamed and criticized for it.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:24 PM
No, it's not college, Jhns. But WRs' careers... like any other players'... are heavily dependent on their stats. And let's face it, none of the Broncos' WRs have a snowball's chance in the proverbial hot place of making the Pro Bowl, especially now that Tebow's starting. Regardless of whether it's because his running ability makes the ground game a smarter move by the coaches... or whether it's that his accuracy issues cause the coaches to call fewer passing plays... the end result is that our best WR's numbers are comparable to other teams' second or third WRs. And whether or not anyone wants to admit it, this is why Lloyd wanted out the minute Tebow was named the starter. He knew that with Tebow, our WRs' stats were gonna suck... and that the WRs were going to be the ones blamed and criticized for it.

They don't have a chance at the pro bowl because we don't have pro bowl WRs. Lloyd had bettrr numbers under Tebow last season.

Lloyd wanted out before Tebow started. If you followed, he was complaining to the media while Orton was starting...

We gave away our top two receivers. We gave up one of them mid season. You claim the current receiver numbers show something about Tebow. I say it is clear you aren't paying attention.

Your concerns are also ignoring reality. Elway has made it pretty clear that if they aren't passing more with Tebow, he won't be the starter long.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:27 PM
They don't have a chance at the pro bowl because we don't have pro bowl WRs. Lloyd had bettrr numbers under Tebow last season.

Lloyd wanted out before Tebow started. If you followed, he was complaining to the media while Orton was starting...

We gave away our top two receivers. We gave up one of them mid season. You claim the current receiver numbers show something about Tebow. I say it is clear you aren't paying attention.

Um... no. I'm saying that Jerry Rice said on TV yesterday... that essentially no WRs want to play with Tim Tebow as QB. And I don't care if the WR was Jerry Rice, he can't put up Pro Bowl (or even decent) numbers when only 8 passing plays are called in a game... and only 2 of those are completions.

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Clearly no. But Orton ran the base offense better. Tebow needs to far surpass Orton's ability in that style of offense before he can be the QBOTF. If you don't believe me, ask John Elway. The offense we're running now, as well as Tebow runs it, is not the long term answer. You're a fool if you think it is.

We lost to the Arizona Feelys last year 43-13. Orton had put up 3 points going into the 4th, and got the last 10 in garbage time.

Against the Cardinals. But Tebow loses bad to a tough Detroit squad, and suddenly Orton's the man.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 01:34 PM
We gave away our top two receivers. We gave up one of them mid season. You claim the current receiver numbers show something about Tebow. I say it is clear you aren't paying attention.

I love how you use the terms "gave away" and "gave up", and conveniently leave out the fact that Lloyd didn't want to be here and didn't want to play with Tebow. As if that isn't relevant. You're such a fraud. Constant half-truths, spin, and obfuscation while at the same time putting words in everyone else's mouths.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:34 PM
Um... no. I'm saying that Jerry Rice said on TV yesterday... that essentially no WRs want to play with Tim Tebow as QB. And I don't care if the WR was Jerry Rice, he can't put up Pro Bowl (or even decent) numbers when only 8 passing plays are called in a game... and only 2 of those are completions.

Rice would have caught a couple of those drops.

That isn't all you said though. You blamed the Lloyd situation on Tebow. Lloyd was clearly complaining well before Tebow started. You blamed production on Tebow. We gave away our top two receivers and didn't replace them. We have multiple drops a game. Rice can say what he wants, we aren't passing more if no one can catch it. This is especially true in games that we can rush for 300 yards. This isn't just on Tebow. Just watch last season. Lloyd had better numbers with Tebow. Tebow was passing for many more yards.

And, again, you are worried about nothing. Elway isn't going to keep Tebow around if he isn't pasding more next season. Receivers can cry all they want. We are getting a top draft pick. The guys we can draft will screw their careers if they are cancers before proving they can play.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 01:35 PM
...and suddenly Orton's the man.

My god you're as bad as jhns. If you're going to make stuff up don't bother.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:36 PM
I love how you use the terms "gave away" and "gave up", and conveniently leave out the fact that Lloyd didn't want to be here and didn't want to play with Tebow. As if that isn't relevant. You're such a fraud. Constant half-truths, spin, and obfuscation while at the same time putting words in everyone else's mouths.

I don't care which side of "The Tebow Divide" one's on, there's a problem when the greatest WR of all time goes on national TV and states that he would find it frustrating to play with your QB. This is not a good thing for anyone in Broncos Country.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:37 PM
I love how you use the terms "gave away" and "gave up", and conveniently leave out the fact that Lloyd didn't want to be here and didn't want to play with Tebow. As if that isn't relevant. You're such a fraud. Constant half-truths, spin, and obfuscation while at the same time putting words in everyone else's mouths.

LOL

Show me where he said he didn't want to play with Tebow.

It isn't relevant though. You love the McDaniels way. So stupid.

Orton gives us the best chance to win!

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 01:38 PM
My god you're as bad as jhns. If you're going to make stuff up don't bother.

If you're going to snip 3 words out of a post in order to avoid the rest of what was said, you're right, I shouldn't bother.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't care which side of "The Tebow Divide" one's on, there's a problem when the greatest WR of all time goes on national TV and states that he would find it frustrating to play with your QB. This is not a good thing for anyone in Broncos Country.

A problem for who?

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:38 PM
Rice would have caught a couple of those drops.

That isn't all you said though. You blamed the Lloyd situation on Tebow. Lloyd was clearly complaining well before Tebow started. You blamed production on Tebow. We gave away our top two receivers and didn't replace them. We have multiple drops a game. Rice can say what he wants, we aren't passing more if no one can catch it. This is especially true in games that we can rush for 300 yards. This isn't just on Tebow. Just watch last season. Lloyd had better numbers with Tebow. Tebow was passing for many more yards.

And, again, you are worried about nothing. Elway isn't going to keep Tebow around if he isn't pasding more next season. Receivers can cry all they want. We are getting a top draft pick. The guys we can draft will screw their careers if they are cancers before proving they can play.

No, I didn't blame the Lloyd situation on Tebow. I said Lloyd was interested in his own stats and knew those stats were not going to improve once Tebow took over. Lloyd acted in his own self-interests by asking to go somewhere else.

Rice said he would find it frustrating to play with our starting QB. This is not good, Jhns.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:40 PM
A problem for who?

There are other careers on the line here besides "just" Tim Tebow's, Jhns. Eddie Royal, for example. He's on the "hot seat" because his stats aren't so good. And unless something drastically changes, they're not gonna get much better for the remainder of the season.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:41 PM
No, I didn't blame the Lloyd situation on Tebow. I said Lloyd was interested in his own stats and knew those stats were not going to improve once Tebow took over. Lloyd acted in his own self-interests by asking to go somewhere else.

Rice said he would find it frustrating to play with our starting QB. This is not good, Jhns.

Lloyd was complaining before Tebow...

Honestly, who cares what Rice says? How does that hurt this team? You think a non-top of the draft receiver has the ability to refuse to play somewhere? Do you think they can act like fools before proving themselves? They sure can, and their NFL career will be a little longer than mine was.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 01:42 PM
This isn't just on Tebow...

It's hilarious how you want to give all the credit to Tebow (the defensive improvement is ALL about Tebow!!!) and then blame people for putting all the blame on him when they really are doing no such thing.

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 01:43 PM
There are other careers on the line here besides "just" Tim Tebow's, Jhns. Eddie Royal, for example. He's on the "hot seat" because his stats aren't so good. And unless something drastically changes, they're not gonna get much better for the remainder of the season.

Yeah, cuz Eddie was burning up the league before Tebow started in Miami.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:43 PM
There are other careers on the line here besides "just" Tim Tebow's, Jhns. Eddie Royal, for example. He's on the "hot seat" because his stats aren't so good. And unless something drastically changes, they're not gonna get much better for the remainder of the season.

As if Royal was doing better without Tebow...

Maybe those others should learn to do their jobs and stop dropping the ball. We do not have a receiver that would be the top guy on any squad I can think of. Maybe if you start talking college...

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 01:45 PM
Rice said he would find it frustrating to play with our starting QB.

Who effing cares? Seriously!

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:46 PM
It's hilarious how you want to give all the credit to Tebow (the defensive improvement is ALL about Tebow!!!) and then blame people for putting all the blame on him when they really are doing no such thing.

Tebow is the difference in the defenses performances. This other stuff is just your butthurt talking. Cry more.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:47 PM
Lloyd was complaining before Tebow...

Honestly, who cares what Rice says? How does that hurt this team? You think a non-top of the draft receiver has the ability to refuse to play somewhere? Do you think they can act like fools before proving themselves? They sure can, and their NFL career will be a little longer than mine was.

Yes, he was complaining before Tebow was named the starter. But when Tebow was named the starter, he stopped complaining and demanded to be traded. His trade request came like 2 days after it was announced that Tebow was going to start.

TJ touched on this in the podcast... that WRs apparently suddenly don't want to come to Denver. Jerry Rice is just one high-profile guy who recently went on TV and explained why this might be happening.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Who effing cares? Seriously!

If WRs' agents are telling the Broncos not to bother contacting them re: their clients, (as TJ said on the podcast), this isn't a problem? OK, if you say so.

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 01:51 PM
But Orton ran the base offense better.

How do you possibly come to that conclusion?

Less points.
Worse winning %
Far more turnovers.

That equates to "Better" for you?

TonyR
11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
...you're right, I shouldn't bother.

We agree here. You're claiming as the foundation of your argument that I'm saying something I clearly didn't say. And if it help you to understand better, let me say this: the Arizona loss last year wasn't all about Orton, just like the Detroit game this year wasn't all about Tebow.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
Yes, he was complaining before Tebow was named the starter. But when Tebow was named the starter, he stopped complaining and demanded to be traded. His trade request came like 2 days after it was announced that Tebow was going to start.

TJ touched on this in the podcast... that WRs apparently suddenly don't want to come to Denver. Jerry Rice is just one high-profile guy who recently went on TV and explained why this might be happening.

Then those receivers don't come to Denver. Instead, we get all the top linemen and RBs as this is exactly what all of them want to run. I'll take it.

Do you have a link to this trade request?

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
If WRs' agents are telling the Broncos not to bother contacting them re: their clients, (as TJ said on the podcast), this isn't a problem? OK, if you say so.

If prima donna WRs aren't interested in coming here, I could care less. Guys who just want to win will fill their spots.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
Cry more.

LOL I'm the one crying!!! Hilarious!

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:54 PM
LOL I'm the one crying!!! Hilarious!

Constantly. It is quite sad.

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 01:56 PM
Yes, he was complaining before Tebow was named the starter. But when Tebow was named the starter, he stopped complaining and demanded to be traded. His trade request came like 2 days after it was announced that Tebow was going to start. .

Actually, Lloyd's trade request came before the season started. The Broncos didn't do anything with it until the trade deadline was almost up and the season had already been assumed a write-off.

The trade deadline, and the 'lost' season were the main reasons for the trade. Tebow starting was semi-coincidental.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 01:56 PM
How do you possibly come to that conclusion?


Other than you basing your conclusion on last season, how about what was observed by the coaching staff in camp? Come on, Ded, if Tebow could run the base offense would they have gone to the trouble of installing this current offense after the Detroit debacle? Why is this so difficult for some of you?!? If Tebow could throw the ball in a conventional offense he'd be considered the QBOTF and we wouldn't be having all of these discussions. Right now he can't.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 01:57 PM
If prima donna WRs aren't interested in coming here, I could care less. Guys who just want to win will fill their spots.

It's simple logic... WRs want accolades and to earn incentives in their contracts and make the Pro Bowl and have a chance to eventually make the HOF too. And if they don't think they can do it with the Broncos (the reason why is irrelevant) then our team won't be as attractive to the top talent at that position. Lesser talent very rarely translates into more success.

DrFate
11-23-2011, 01:58 PM
Clearly no. But Orton ran the base offense better. Tebow needs to far surpass Orton's ability in that style of offense before he can be the QBOTF.

I think you are generally a good poster, but I don't understand your comments in this thread. Orton was 3-10 last season and 1-4 this season in this same offense where you are extolling his performance. Whether running the run-and-shoot or the single wing or the wishbone, what difference does it make that a player was 'better' in 'system X' when the results were this putrid?

We've seen great explanations where simply swapping Brady and Manning wouldn't work for either (Manning has a bigger arm, Brady excels at the quick, accurate throw). Both are successful because the staff alters the system to fit the players.

Orton and Tebow aren't interchangeable. We are hearing now where Orton doesn't fit the Kubiak system where there are a lot of designed rollouts (and Orton has cement feet). I'm not sure how much time I'd spend on 'the Orton and Tebow have different skillsets' argument.

jhns
11-23-2011, 01:59 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19126114

The haters need to find a new angle. Lloyd wanted out before he knew Tebow was starting. Royal did as well. Facts...

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 02:01 PM
Actually, Lloyd's trade request came before the season started. The Broncos didn't do anything with it until the trade deadline was almost up and the season had already been assumed a write-off.

The trade deadline, and the 'lost' season were the main reasons for the trade. Tebow starting was semi-coincidental.

We disagree on that; I don't think it was coincidental at all. And looking at our WRs' numbers... and stats like 2 for 8 in a game... he was right (for his own career) to bail when he did.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Other than you basing your conclusion on last season, how about what was observed by the coaching staff in camp? Come on, Ded, if Tebow could run the base offense would they have gone to the trouble of installing this current offense after the Detroit debacle? Why is this so difficult for some of you?!? If Tebow could throw the ball in a conventional offense he'd be considered the QBOTF and we wouldn't be having all of these discussions. Right now he can't.

As if Orton hasn't had far worse performances... You are a clown.

Orton clearly gives us the best chance to win!

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:02 PM
It's simple logic... WRs want accolades and to earn incentives in their contracts and make the Pro Bowl and have a chance to eventually make the HOF too. And if they don't think they can do it with the Broncos (the reason why is irrelevant) then our team won't be as attractive to the top talent at that position. Lesser talent very rarely translates into more success.

Based on this logic, they should have never hired Fox, who is known as a run-first coach. I'm sure that will discourage some WRs too.

:oyvey:

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 02:03 PM
It's simple logic... WRs want accolades and to earn incentives in their contracts and make the Pro Bowl and have a chance to eventually make the HOF too. And if they don't think they can do it with the Broncos (the reason why is irrelevant) then our team won't be as attractive to the top talent at that position. Lesser talent very rarely translates into more success.

Now apply your logic to RB's, who similarly want accolades, incentives and trips to Hawaii. Why would any good RB's want to go to a pass-heavy offense?

It's a circular glass-is-half-empty argument. If you primarily run, WR's won't like you. If you're a pass-first team, good RB's might avoid you.

At the end of the day, you need to do what works and let the divas be divas.

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 02:03 PM
Other than you basing your conclusion on last season, how about what was observed by the coaching staff in camp? Come on, Ded, if Tebow could run the base offense would they have gone to the trouble of installing this current offense after the Detroit debacle? Why is this so difficult for some of you?!? If Tebow could throw the ball in a conventional offense he'd be considered the QBOTF and we wouldn't be having all of these discussions. Right now he can't.
I'm not basing it on last season at all. I'm basing it on Orton's 5 starts, and Tebow's first 2.5 games. I could care less about meaningless camp reps.

Tebow is better in every category I mentioned.

All you apparently care about is completion %.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:04 PM
We disagree on that; I don't think it was coincidental at all. And looking at our WRs' numbers... and stats like 2 for 8 in a game... he was right (for his own career) to bail when he did.

It is a fact that he asked for a trade while Orton was starting. I even posted a source for you. Why would you disagree with facts? That doesn't exactly make you seem rational.

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:04 PM
We disagree on that; I don't think it was coincidental at all.

You are ignoring the fact that it was widely reported that Lloyd wanted out before Orton was benched. The lack of a contract extension had more to do with his demand than the guy playing QB.

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 02:05 PM
Based on this logic, they should have never hired Fox, who is known as a run-first coach. I'm sure that will discourage some WRs too.

:oyvey:

That's possible. But rumors that WRs' agents have said their clients aren't interested in coming to the Broncos... plus Jerry Rice concurring that he wouldn't want to play with Tebow... seems like a negative development to me. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:05 PM
Constantly. It is quite sad.

You live in your own little reality, don't you?!?

Let's review. You:
Whine about how stupid McDaniels was
Whine about how wonderful Shanahan was
Whine about how wonderful Cutler was
Whine about how wonderful B Marshall was
Whine about how awful Moreno was
Whine about how awful Orton was
Whine about how stupid Fox is
Whine about hwo stupid Elway is
Whine about how Tebow doesn't get all credit
Whine about how we "gave away" Gaffney and Lloyd (same as you did with Cutler and Marshall)
Whine about how you don't get credit for how right you always are
Whine about how you're smarter than the people running the Broncos
Whine about people who have the audacity to voice some concerns about Tebow

Other than your sorry ass, what am I whining about, exactly? And please don't bring some weak stuff about me whining about McDaniels getting fired (I didn't) or Orton getting benched and then cut (I didn't).

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 02:06 PM
It's simple logic... WRs want accolades and to earn incentives in their contracts and make the Pro Bowl and have a chance to eventually make the HOF too. And if they don't think they can do it with the Broncos (the reason why is irrelevant) then our team won't be as attractive to the top talent at that position. Lesser talent very rarely translates into more success.

By that logic every top shelf OL, RB, and Defensive player will be dying to come here. I'll trade that for Brandon Lloyd any time.

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 02:08 PM
We disagree on that; I don't think it was coincidental at all. And looking at our WRs' numbers... and stats like 2 for 8 in a game... he was right (for his own career) to bail when he did.

Lloyd didn't have any leverage to 'demand' a trade. What was he going to do, refuse to play in his big contract year? Retire?

The Broncos let him go after they figured there was nothing more to play for this year, and they could get something for him rather than nothing. Unfortunately that appears to have been a bad miscalculation.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:09 PM
You live in your own little reality, don't you?!?

Let's review. You:
Whine about how stupid McDaniels was
Whine about how wonderful Shanahan was
Whine about how wonderful Cutler was
Whine about how wonderful B Marshall was
Whine about how awful Moreno was
Whine about how awful Orton was
Whine about how stupid Fox is
Whine about hwo stupid Elway is
Whine about how Tebow doesn't get all credit
Whine about how we "gave away" Gaffney and Lloyd (same as you did with Cutler and Marshall)
Whine about how you don't get credit for how right you always are
Whine about how you're smarter than the people running the Broncos
Whine about people who have the audacity to voice some concerns about Tebow

Other than your sorry ass, what am I whining about, exactly? And please don't bring some weak stuff about me whining about McDaniels getting fired (I didn't) or Orton getting benched and then cut (I didn't).

You cried more in this one post than I have in my life. What a sad individual.

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 02:09 PM
That's possible. But rumors that WRs' agents have said their clients aren't interested in coming to the Broncos... plus Jerry Rice concurring that he wouldn't want to play with Tebow... seems like a negative development to me. Guess we'll see how it all plays out.

Yeah, we get it, you will desperately cling to any possible negative regarding Tebow. Thanks.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:11 PM
Yeah, we get it, you will desperately cling to any possible negative regarding Tebow. Thanks.

I love when these same posters then claim they aren't haters...

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:11 PM
Lloyd wanted to get paid - the FO (wisely) realized his numbers last year were more of an aberration than an indicator of his future performance. They got a chump-change price for him. In my view, this is preferable to giving him the mega-deal he's going to want and then watching him slide back to the old Brandon Lloyd we love to hate.

People need to remember - this isn't Fitgerald or Andre or Calvin Johnson. This is a nine year vet, on his FIFTH team, who played WELL above his expected output last year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4582/brandon-lloyd

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 02:15 PM
Lloyd didn't have any leverage to 'demand' a trade. What was he going to do, refuse to play in his big contract year? Retire?

The Broncos let him go after they figured there was nothing more to play for this year, and they could get something for him rather than nothing. Unfortunately that appears to have been a bad miscalculation.

He was gonna sulk and be a malcontent and a locker room cancer. Better to let him go even for minimal returns than to have a negative influence in the locker room and/or on the field.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:17 PM
...I don't understand your comments in this thread. Orton was 3-10 last season and 1-4 this season in this same offense where you are extolling his performance. Whether running the run-and-shoot or the single wing or the wishbone, what difference does it make that a player was 'better' in 'system X' when the results were this putrid?

I must not be making myself clear, particularly if you believe the above. Orton failed miserably and I'm not saying otherwise. Frankly this argument has gotten so twisted (as every argument with jhns does) that I don't even fully remember what we're arguing about. I just don't think Tebow can run a "conventional" offense competently at this point, as Elway and Fox have both pretty much stated; I don't think think the defensive improvement is all about Tebow, but it is a large part of it; and frankly I think our 4-1 run is a little misleading. All that said, I'm 100% behind Tebow over Orton (as if that matters, but that's what some people want to make it about), and I'm 100% pulling for him and the Broncos (again, sad that I even have to state that).

Blueflame
11-23-2011, 02:17 PM
Yeah, we get it, you will desperately cling to any possible negative regarding Tebow. Thanks.

I'm not "desperately clinging to" anything. The Rice interview... and rumors that other WRs aren't even considering Denver... are new developments. Sorry if you don't want to talk about it. Walking away now.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:19 PM
I must not be making myself clear, particularly if you believe the above. Orton failed miserably and I'm not saying otherwise. Frankly this argument has gotten so twisted (as every argument with jhns does) that I don't even fully remember what we're arguing about. I just don't think Tebow can run a "conventional" offense competently at this point, as Elway and Fox have both pretty much stated; I don't think think the defensive improvement is all about Tebow, but it is a large part of it; and frankly I think our 4-1 run is a little misleading. All that said, I'm 100% behind Tebow over Orton (as if that matters, but that's what some people want to make it about), and I'm 100% pulling for him and the Broncos (again, sad that I even have to state that).

Let me fill you in since you can't keep up.

I say Elway chose the wrong QB to start the year. You claim he didn't because Orton was better in an offense that he scored less and won less in. We laughed at you. You confused yourself again. Here ee are.

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 02:22 PM
I must not be making myself clear, particularly if you believe the above. Orton failed miserably and I'm not saying otherwise. Frankly this argument has gotten so twisted (as every argument with jhns does) that I don't even fully remember what we're arguing about. I just don't think Tebow can run a "conventional" offense competently at this point, as Elway and Fox have both pretty much stated; I don't think think the defensive improvement is all about Tebow, but it is a large part of it; and frankly I think our 4-1 run is a little misleading. All that said, I'm 100% behind Tebow over Orton (as if that matters, but that's what some people want to make it about), and I'm 100% pulling for him and the Broncos (again, sad that I even have to state that).

You're making some things very clear.

Your argument wasn't whether Tebow could run a conventional offense. Perhaps that's true.

Your argument was that Orton ran the conventional offense better. Not at all true.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:22 PM
Walking away now.

There's no point in arguing with some of these people. You're automatically a "hater" if you don't go out of your way to praise Tebow. The opinions of the likes of Bill Cowher and Jerry Rice are worthless (as has been claimed about both in the last few days here). John Elway (and before him John Fox) are idiots for stating some hard truths about Tebow. This Tebow drama has some people completely out of their minds. Our offense scored 10 points and had 1 and a half good drives (including a scintillating, clutch game winning drive) but any suggestion that we need to do better brings out the pitchforks and torches. Our defense played so well because of Tebow. You can't reason with these people.

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 02:24 PM
I'm not "desperately clinging to" anything. The Rice interview... and rumors that other WRs aren't even considering Denver... are new developments. Sorry if you don't want to talk about it. Walking away now.

You absolutely are clinging to it. Espousing that because Jerry Rice starts a rumor, Tebow "Presents a big problem."

It's laughable.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:28 PM
There's no point in arguing with some of these people. You're automatically a "hater" if you don't go out of your way to praise Tebow. The opinions of the likes of Bill Cowher and Jerry Rice are worthless (as has been claimed about both in the last few days here). John Elway (and before him John Fox) are idiots for stating some hard truths about Tebow. This Tebow drama has some people completely out of their minds. Our offense scored 10 points and had 1 and a half good drives (including a scintillating, clutch game winning drive) but any suggestion that we need to do better brings out the pitchforks and torches. Our defense played so well because of Tebow. You can't reason with these people.

You clearly don't even realize how stupid your hatred has made you. This drama queen post is proof.

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 02:29 PM
There's no point in arguing with some of these people. You're automatically a "hater" if you don't go out of your way to praise Tebow.

Not at all true. A "hater" is someone who simply refuses to acknowledge that Tebow is the catalyst behind the change in the Denver Broncos.

A "hater" clings to any negative and refuses to give any credit where it is due.

I don't get on anyone who says that Tebow needs to improve his footwork and accuracy because I gladly concede the point.

When a "hater" watches the Jets game they say "I'm glad we won but it wasn't because of Tebow, and with him as our QB free agent WRs won't want to come here".

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:30 PM
I must not be making myself clear, particularly if you believe the above.

I only saw your posts on the last couple of pages.

Orton failed miserably and I'm not saying otherwise. Frankly this argument has gotten so twisted (as every argument with jhns does) that I don't even fully remember what we're arguing about.

hehe

I just don't think Tebow can run a "conventional" offense competently at this point, as Elway and Fox have both pretty much stated; I don't think think the defensive improvement is all about Tebow, but it is a large part of it; and frankly I think our 4-1 run is a little misleading. All that said, I'm 100% behind Tebow over Orton (as if that matters, but that's what some people want to make it about), and I'm 100% pulling for him and the Broncos (again, sad that I even have to state that).

I think the 'conventional offense' nonsense is really blown out of proportion. Looking at the stats, the Jags have fewer attempts/game than the Broncos. Do we call what they run a 'conventional' offense? San Fransisco has fewer passing attempts/game than Denver does too (in fact, they are dead last in that category). And those guys look nearly unbeatable. We don't see the media calling their system a 'gimmick' or 'unsustainable'.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

Tebow needs improvement, mainly on his footwork. And the WRs need improvement on actually catching a ball. I don't want to hear Jerry Rice and his BS about 'a WR wants a perfect ball'. Well, I want a pony. Catch the damned ball. If you get your hands on it, a professional pass catcher should catch the ball.

We need to see some play calling where Tebow is given a chance to complete some high percentage throws (a screen, a dump off, whatever). Let him throw it 25 times a game - but all those can't be 3rd and 15 passes or 40 yard heaves.

As for the defense - Tebow is helping the defense primarily because he isn't giving the ball away. That, and I think it honestly helps the defense to know that they can WIN a game if they have the ball and a one-score difference to close the game. When Orton was back there, you KNEW you had no chance. You just knew it. Where Orton WAS going to lose, Tebow MIGHT win. That's not a tangible thing, and I can't say it's 'truth'. But it seems true to me.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:31 PM
I say Elway chose the wrong QB to start the year. You claim he didn't because Orton was better in an offense that he scored less and won less in. We laughed at you. You confused yourself again. Here ee are.

Since Tebow didn't play in the first 4 games of the year we don't know, and never will. I do know that you didn't see how Tebow looked in camp and practices leading up to the season, but what was heard from those was far less than good. We do know what happened when he tried to play the conventional offense against a "good" team (see Lions, Detroit). It was a train wreck. We also know that the team is running a completely unconventional offense now to suit Tebow's talents, an offense which many believe has no long term viability in the NFL and may not be good for the long term health of the QB. We know that both John Fox and John Elway have serious questions about Tebow and his future. But of course jhns knows better...

TJ had a good post on all of this a day or two ago:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3384381&postcount=10

bendog
11-23-2011, 02:33 PM
We need to see some play calling where Tebow is given a chance to complete some high percentage throws (a screen, a dump off, whatever). Let him throw it 25 times a game - but all those can't be 3rd and 15 passes or 40 yard heaves.

I think its more that he can't consistently make those throws either. Not that I'm saying he'll never get better. But he is what he is. A fullback who can throw a deep pass, and is slowly learning to read the blitz, and who has very high leadership/citizen skills.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:34 PM
Looking at the stats, the Jags have fewer attempts/game than the Broncos. Do we call what they run a 'conventional' offense? San Fransisco has fewer passing attempts/game than Denver does too (in fact, they are dead last in that category). And those guys look nearly unbeatable. We don't see the media calling their system a 'gimmick' or 'unsustainable'.

Interesting, didn't know this. But is this true if you take out the Orton starts and only include the Tebow starts? To the extent it matters?

bendog
11-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Since Tebow didn't play in the first 4 games of the year we don't know, and never will. I do know that you didn't see how Tebow looked in camp and practices leading up to the season, but what was heard from those was far less than good. We do know what happened when he tried to play the conventional offense against a "good" team (see Lions, Detroit). It was a train wreck. We also know that the team is running a completely unconventional offense now to suit Tebow's talents, an offense which many believe has no long term viability in the NFL and may not be good for the long term health of the QB. We know that both John Fox and John Elway have serious questions about Tebow and his future. But of course jhns knows better...

TJ had a good post on all of this a day or two ago:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3384381&postcount=10

Not that it bothers me, but responding to that guy is not just a waste of time but also a lesson of how boring it is to try to reason with the mentally challanged.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:37 PM
You're making some things very clear.

Your argument wasn't whether Tebow could run a conventional offense. Perhaps that's true.

Your argument was that Orton ran the conventional offense better. Not at all true.

He does this constantly and then cries that others are doing it, even when they aren't.

I say Tebow was the better option, he turns it into who was better in the passing offense. People show that Tebow was better and he is suddenly arguing Tebow just isn't perfect in a passing offense.

I claim Tebow is the difference in the defensive performance as he doesn't put them in the bad positions Orton did. Eventually he makes it into an argument that Tebow is the reason the defense is good.

What a clown. He isn't a hater though. He just won't say anything positive about Tebow. He also just shoots down any pisitives others point put. Not a hater though!

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:38 PM
I think its more that he can't consistently make those throws either. Not that I'm saying he'll never get better. But he is what he is. A fullback who can throw a deep pass, and is slowly learning to read the blitz, and who has very high leadership/citizen skills.

I don't believe he has had the chance. As Rev said in the podcast, if you factor in drops and intentional throw aways, his completion numbers look pretty darned good.

Everyone will admit - once in a while he'll badly miss an open guy. The part that bothers me is that, every once in a while, Brady misses an open guy. So does Manning. And maybe Tebow's 'bad misses' are worse than Brady's 'bad misses'. I don't care if an incomplete pass is an inch off or is thrown clear out of the stadium - the results are the same.

If Tebow were as inaccurate as the media has made people believe, he'd be turning the ball over a ton. And he's not.

Let's have a few screens and a few dump offs. Every game for the rest of the season. A 'more conventional' offense. If Tebow hit his offense linemen in the ass on 70% of those, I'll admit my mistake.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:38 PM
Since Tebow didn't play in the first 4 games of the year we don't know, and never will. I do know that you didn't see how Tebow looked in camp and practices leading up to the season, but what was heard from those was far less than good. We do know what happened when he tried to play the conventional offense against a "good" team (see Lions, Detroit). It was a train wreck. We also know that the team is running a completely unconventional offense now to suit Tebow's talents, an offense which many believe has no long term viability in the NFL and may not be good for the long term health of the QB. We know that both John Fox and John Elway have serious questions about Tebow and his future. But of course jhns knows better...

TJ had a good post on all of this a day or two ago:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3384381&postcount=10

LOL

They clearly made the right choice at QB!

Wtf?

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:39 PM
Not that it bothers me, but responding to that guy is not just a waste of time but also a lesson of how boring it is to try to reason with the mentally challanged.

Says the guy that continually claims Tebow can't do stuff he has been doing. The guy has a ton of problems and you can't even get one right. Funny stuff.

bendog
11-23-2011, 02:40 PM
I don't believe he has had the chance. As Rev said in the podcast, if you factor in drops and intentional throw aways, his completion numbers look pretty darned good.

Everyone will admit - once in a while he'll badly miss an open guy. The part that bothers me is that, every once in a while, Brady misses an open guy. So does Manning. And maybe Tebow's 'bad misses' are worse than Brady's 'bad misses'. I don't care if an incomplete pass is an inch off or is thrown clear out of the stadium - the results are the same.

If Tebow were as inaccurate as the media has made people believe, he'd be turning the ball over a ton. And he's not.

Let's have a few screens and a few dump offs. Every game for the rest of the season. A 'more conventional' offense. If Tebow hit his offense linemen in the ass on 70% of those, I'll admit my mistake.

Well the third and makeables he makes often require sellouts (Fells v. Jests) and some are uncatchable even with sellouts. I don't see questioning the playcalling when you got a qb as bad at passing as tebow. HE CAN throw a nice deep ball, and you can't teach that.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:41 PM
When a "hater" watches the Jets game they say "I'm glad we won but it wasn't because of Tebow, and with him as our QB free agent WRs won't want to come here".

See this is what drives me crazy. These absolutes constantly confuse the arguments. I never said "it wasn't because of Tebow". What I have done, and will continue to do, is point out the reality of what happened. Over all the offense performed extremely poorly. There's no getting around this fact. I won't bother to give you all the facts supporting this, I've already done it multiple times and some of you continue to ignore them. None of this takes away from the awesome, clutch, game winning drive that Tebow orchestrated. He deserves credit and praise for that. But overall his performance needs to improve greatly. I'm willing to go half way in these arguments, because that's where reality is. Some of you are far too one sided in your opinion on this. You react too strongly to anything you perceive as a slight to Tebow. And this makes discussions around here impossible and unproductive. There are a few Tebow haters, but there are far more Tebow worshippers. And then there are people like me who support him but are cautious and realistic.

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:42 PM
Interesting, didn't know this. But is this true if you take out the Orton starts and only include the Tebow starts? To the extent it matters?

I'm sure Denver would be last if you simply included the last 5 games (I didn't take the time to do the math). :)

My point was you don't have to pass 50 times a game to win. I fear that people are simply listening to the noise coming from Cowherd and Hoge and that crew and ignoring everything they know about football for the past 100 years.

Tebow is never going to throw a football through a tire like P Manning would. That's not his skill set. But he has the ability to finish late-game drives (a skill not many NFL QBs have). I'd like to see if this franchise will try to develop his passing skills until they are NFL average. That plus his other abilities might be very special.

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:43 PM
See this is what drives me crazy. These absolutes constantly confuse the arguments. I never said "it wasn't because of Tebow". What I have done, and will continue to do, is point out the reality of what happened. Over all the offense performed extremely poorly. There's no getting around this fact. I won't bother to give you all the facts supporting this, I've already done it multiple times and some of you continue to ignore them. None of this takes away from the awesome, clutch, game winning drive that Tebow orchestrated. He deserves credit and praise for that. But overall his performance needs to improve greatly. I'm willing to go half way in these arguments, because that's where reality is. Some of you are far too one sided in your opinion on this. You react too strongly to anything you perceive as a slight to Tebow. And this makes discussions around here impossible and unproductive. There are a few Tebow haters, but there are far more Tebow worshippers. And then there are people like me who support him but are cautious and realistic.

You are trying to argue that 1-4 was a better choice than 4-1. You are trying to shoot down any positive claim about Tebow. You can't even see what an idiot your hatred has made you.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:44 PM
You are trying to argue that 1-4 was a better choice than 4-1. You are trying to shoot down any positive claim about Tebow. You can't even see what an idiot your hatred has made you.

Once again proving my point beyond all reasonable doubt...

jhns
11-23-2011, 02:45 PM
Once again proving my point beyond all reasonable doubt...

That you are a hater?

Scoring more points and winning more games just shows Tebow is worse in the conventional offense, right?

Clown.

I say it was a mistake to play Orton. You claim it wasn't. I say wtf. You claim you didn't argue it wasn't. I again point out it was a mistake. You again argue it wasn't.

You can't even keep up with yourself.

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:46 PM
Well the third and makeables he makes often require sellouts (Fells v. Jests) and some are uncatchable even with sellouts. I don't see questioning the playcalling when you got a qb as bad at passing as tebow. HE CAN throw a nice deep ball, and you can't teach that.

I simply haven't seen it. I don't see the wild inaccuracy that is the current portrayal. I see some bad balls and I see a lot of catchable balls. If he were as bad as you make him out, why does he have only 1 INT?

I'd love for someone to provide a down/distance breakdown of Tebow's pass attempts. I stand convinced he'd put up better percentages if they let him throw the ball a little more.

There was a third down in the Jets game, that I rewound/re-watched 4 times, that Thomas should have caught. It wasn't a picture perfect pass, but it was a very catchable by a guy getting paid millions to do it. Go to the knees, make the catch, first down Broncos.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 02:46 PM
My point was you don't have to pass 50 times a game to win....

I'd like to see if this franchise will try to develop his passing skills until they are NFL average. That plus his other abilities might be very special.

Agree completely. And the bolded part pretty much proves we're more on the same page than it might appear.

bendog
11-23-2011, 02:46 PM
I'm sure Denver would be last if you simply included the last 5 games (I didn't take the time to do the math). :)

My point was you don't have to pass 50 times a game to win. I fear that people are simply listening to the noise coming from Cowherd and Hoge and that crew and ignoring everything they know about football for the past 100 years.

Tebow is never going to throw a football through a tire like P Manning would. That's not his skill set. But he has the ability to finish late-game drives (a skill not many NFL QBs have). I'd like to see if this franchise will try to develop his passing skills until they are NFL average. That plus his other abilities might be very special.

That's sort of what I think. He may always be a guy who really struggles with 3rd and ten, but put him in 3rd and 4 and he wills his way to first down.

DrFate
11-23-2011, 02:54 PM
I honestly feel the media is simply wrong on a lot of points. The 'he can't read a defense' isn't any different than most rookies. And I stand by my point that he's not as 'inaccurate' as some make him out to be. I honestly don't care if he throws a ground ball once in a while.

He needs coaching, mostly on his FEET. His throwing motion is way over-analyzed - and while I'm a champion of the perfect motion, there are plenty of different ways to throw the ball (compare Rivers to Manning to Vick) They look like they are playing different sports sometimes.

The reason I bag on the play calling is the possibility of turning the kid into a sideshow. I am all for running whatever system wins games. But the constant 'he can only do this' or 'he can't do that' grates my nerves. And maybe the Tebow playbook will always have a section on this read option - great. I like it. Let him cut loose on a few passes and see what happens.

Hoge and Dilfer and Cowherd would make you think the kid is entirely lost on the field. And I just don't see that.

OrangeCrush2724
11-23-2011, 02:59 PM
You are trying to argue that 1-4 was a better choice than 4-1. You are trying to shoot down any positive claim about Tebow. You can't even see what an idiot your hatred has made you.

Did you read this (bold) part of his post?

See this is what drives me crazy. These absolutes constantly confuse the arguments. I never said "it wasn't because of Tebow". What I have done, and will continue to do, is point out the reality of what happened. Over all the offense performed extremely poorly. There's no getting around this fact. I won't bother to give you all the facts supporting this, I've already done it multiple times and some of you continue to ignore them. None of this takes away from the awesome, clutch, game winning drive that Tebow orchestrated. He deserves credit and praise for that. But overall his performance needs to improve greatly. I'm willing to go half way in these arguments, because that's where reality is. Some of you are far too one sided in your opinion on this. You react too strongly to anything you perceive as a slight to Tebow. And this makes discussions around here impossible and unproductive. There are a few Tebow haters, but there are far more Tebow worshippers. And then there are people like me who support him but are cautious and realistic.

bendog
11-23-2011, 03:01 PM
I honestly feel the media is simply wrong on a lot of points. The 'he can't read a defense' isn't any different than most rookies. And I stand by my point that he's not as 'inaccurate' as some make him out to be. I honestly don't care if he throws a ground ball once in a while.

He needs coaching, mostly on his FEET. His throwing motion is way over-analyzed - and while I'm a champion of the perfect motion, there are plenty of different ways to throw the ball (compare Rivers to Manning to Vick) They look like they are playing different sports sometimes.

The reason I bag on the play calling is the possibility of turning the kid into a sideshow. I am all for running whatever system wins games. But the constant 'he can only do this' or 'he can't do that' grates my nerves. And maybe Tebow system will always have a section on this read option - great. I like it. Let him cut loose on a few passes and see what happens.

Hoge and Dilfer and Cowherd would make you think the kid is entirely lost on the field. And I just don't see that.

He read the blitz to end the Jests game (season). He read a blitz against Det, and lofted the ball nicely over the blitzer into the TE's hands. He's gonna have DE's swat the ball out of his hand from the blindside. No qb is perfect. I don't see HOF, but Steve McNair or Delhomme or Hasselback could have won superbowls. I'm not on the bandwagon, but I'm not for running him out of town .... on a cross. (I had to.)

elsid13
11-23-2011, 03:02 PM
Why does everything have to turn into pro/anti tebow rant?

TonyR
11-23-2011, 03:04 PM
Did you read this (bold) part of his post?

Yeah, he doesn't read what people post. And if he does he doesn't understand it. He's too busy making up versions of what people say. Not enough bandwidth to read and comprehend what they actually say. It's pointless.

jhns
11-23-2011, 03:07 PM
Did you read this (bold) part of his post?

He has continually argued that it was the right move to start Orton this season. Sorry, that is just dumb. It is only something an extreme hater would argue. Elway and Fox wouldn't even argue it at this point.

jhns
11-23-2011, 03:08 PM
Yeah, he doesn't read what people post. And if he does he doesn't understand it. He's too busy making up versions of what people say. Not enough bandwidth to read and comprehend what they actually say. It's pointless.

Says the guy continually spinning every argument aseveryone shows what a clown he is.

Saying he is clutch, while hating on him for 300 other sentences, doesn't qualify. Sorry.

bendog
11-23-2011, 03:09 PM
Why does everything have to turn into pro/anti tebow rant?

Well, the thread sort of started out as "do we draft a qb" Aside from jhns, I think it's more a discussion of why some of us would prefer to just ignore the qb position in the draft and try to resign Quinn or somebody to back up tebow and see how the thing shakes out. Worst case, we're .500 with Tyler Wilson likely the first qb of the 2013 draft, and we see if he's worth three picks or who is the next to be off the board. Tenn has a nice qb Bray who has a hand injury this year. He might come out for 2013, who knows.

Play2win
11-23-2011, 03:22 PM
Why does everything have to turn into pro/anti tebow rant?

I mean, he's not Greise for godsakes

Dedhed
11-23-2011, 03:36 PM
There are a few Tebow haters, but there are far more Tebow worshippers. Macrguber and Alphaseirra are the only two Tebow worshippers I've seen. Bendog, TEKO, Blue, that troll who started the thread about making Tebow a RB, errand, the list of haters goes on.


And then there are people like me who support him but are cautious and realistic.

No. You merely add a disclaimer to every one of your hating posts. "I support Tebow, but Orton was better at running a conventional offense".

Adding a disclaimer doesn't change the underlying truth.

bendog
11-23-2011, 03:40 PM
I mean, he's not Greise for godsakes

hey now SOB had a lousy personality, not much of an arm to start with and absolultely no arm after the injuries, and was only marginally more mobil than pocket sloth, but he could read defenses. (-:

Mile High Mojoe
11-23-2011, 03:44 PM
Macrguber and Alphaseirra are the only two Tebow worshippers I've seen. Bendog, TEKO, Blue, that troll who started the thread about making Tebow a RB, errand, the list of haters goes on.




No. You merely add a disclaimer to every one of your hating posts. "I support Tebow, but Orton was better at running a conventional offense".

Adding a disclaimer doesn't change the underlying truth.

Thank you, this guys posts have been driving me crazy all season, good summation.

bendog
11-23-2011, 03:47 PM
Clearly, not being on the tebowite bandwagon makes people annoying.

jhns
11-23-2011, 03:50 PM
Clearly, not being on the tebowite bandwagon makes people annoying.

Or randomly hating when it is obvious that you don't watch the games. Then there is the fact you actually said you don't watch as you hate. Then there is tye fact that you just stated you want us to lose in another thread.

Yes, fake fans like you are annoying.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 03:53 PM
Adding a disclaimer doesn't change the underlying truth.

Oh? And what's this sinister "underlying truth"? Do you pretend to know whether or not I support Tebow? You're proving my point yet again. To the extent I use a "disclaimer" it's because if you don't you get mischaracterized around here. And clearly in your case you choose to label me even if I do. Again, I point out that the offense wasn't very good against the Jets, which is an easily proven fact, and you reflexively run to the defense of Tebow. Look at this thread! Somebody asks a simple question and the worshippers congregate and attack. You really have no idea how silly you're being. It's particularly funny since, as I've discovered with a more rational and thoughtful poster like DrFate, we actually agree more than we disagree. But you can't see this through the haze of your Tebow love. I hate to break it to you, Ded, because I know reality can be a b*tch, but John Fox and John Elway agree with me. I'll keep rooting for Tebow and the Broncos, but I refuse to be a blind fool in the process. And I owe you no apology for my honesty.

bendog
11-23-2011, 04:01 PM
Or randomly hating when it is obvious that you don't watch the games. Then there is the fact you actually said you don't watch as you hate. Then there is tye fact that you just stated you want us to lose in another thread.

Yes, fake fans like you are annoying.

jizz, when they put in tebow, I bought rewind. now go suck timmy some more

HAT
11-23-2011, 04:11 PM
He has continually argued that it was the right move to start Orton this season. .

I love Tebow & anyone else thrilled with what we've seen in the last 5 weeks should agree that starting the season with Orton was the right move.

As much as I don't like Fox as a coach.....He's no dummy. He knew exactly when the bye week was coming and luckily decided to play to Tebow's strengths after 2 games of forcing the offense on him.

Had Tebow started the season...It would've been in the original offense and it would've been beyond ugly with all of the other units that are contributing now not having a real off-season.

He would NOT have just decided at the bye to trot out the new offense...He would've benched Tebow under tremendous pressure....And we'd be sitting here wondering if Orton or Quinn should start this week.

Tebow fans and especially Tebow fanatics should absolutely agree that starting Orton out of the gates was the right move. You guys like to harp on the FO for the "Best chance to win" quotes but it was obviously just coach speak.....Thank God Fox can saw the big picture more than a few nuts on a message board.

TonyR
11-23-2011, 04:22 PM
Great post, HAT. Right on the money. Good to see some rationality and perspective around here.

Pick Six
11-23-2011, 05:25 PM
1st rounder needs to be one of the CB's or MLB....Period.

We kind of showed our hand, when we waived Orton. NOBODY'S going to believe that we won't take a quarterback early, if we haven't signed a veteran by then...

Br0nc0Buster
11-23-2011, 07:30 PM
We kind of showed our hand, when we waived Orton. NOBODY'S going to believe that we won't take a quarterback early, if we haven't signed a veteran by then...

dude there were rumors out the butt last year about us taking a qb, Elway saying stuff like if there is a franchise qb there we have to take a look

A lot of people before the draft thought we might go qb early second

We also released Jammal Williams and Justin Bannon and people were "OMG there is no way they dont go DT early and often now"

I think it is entirely possible we go with Tebow and bring in some veteran backups via FA, or draft a guy in the later rounds to develop and find a veteran in FA

I dont know if we will draft a qb or not, but Elway kept his cards very close to his chest last year, I highly doubt he all of a sudden is gonna announce his intentions to the world

Basically I wouldnt put any stock into what Elway says, Xanders is the one that gives up juicy tidbits

Now as far as who we should draft:
I would have zero problem with RGIII, although I think he will be a top 10 pick
I dont think we will be in range of Barkely
I dont like Landry Jones
The Colts are taking Luck

Kirpatrick is fine, I also like Claiborne, hell if we dont get either those guys we could go after Tyrann Mathieu in 2013

No to Trent Richardson, he is good, but RBs are not worth it
There are like 2-3 DTs that might be worth a pick, like Worthy or the guy from Clemson, Devon Sill

I honestly would like to see what we got in our rookie MLB before we spend a high pick there, I like his potential

I dont think we go QB, there are going to prolly be around 6-8 quality CBs and DTs to choose from in the first who would upgrade our defense

My guess is we target the best of those guys

robbieopperude
11-23-2011, 08:07 PM
Soooooooooo... you're saying if we win 2 more games, you see us at a minimum of 7 wins...?

Ha Ha. Yes I am using my simple math to reason this. More what I meant is that with Minni and KC on our schedule we should be able to get to 7 wins. Now that K.C. has Orton I actually like our chances of beating the Bears also. My assumption last night was that the Bears would get Orton and likely beat us 20 to 10. I'm not so sure Hanie is going to perform very well with a lesser arm in that system.

robbieopperude
11-23-2011, 08:16 PM
dude there were rumors out the butt last year about us taking a qb, Elway saying stuff like if there is a franchise qb there we have to take a look

A lot of people before the draft thought we might go qb early second

We also released Jammal Williams and Justin Bannon and people were "OMG there is no way they dont go DT early and often now"

I think it is entirely possible we go with Tebow and bring in some veteran backups via FA, or draft a guy in the later rounds to develop and find a veteran in FA

I dont know if we will draft a qb or not, but Elway kept his cards very close to his chest last year, I highly doubt he all of a sudden is gonna announce his intentions to the world

Basically I wouldnt put any stock into what Elway says, Xanders is the one that gives up juicy tidbits

Now as far as who we should draft:
I would have zero problem with RGIII, although I think he will be a top 10 pick
I dont think we will be in range of Barkely
I dont like Landry Jones
The Colts are taking Luck

Kirpatrick is fine, I also like Claiborne, hell if we dont get either those guys we could go after Tyrann Mathieu in 2013

No to Trent Richardson, he is good, but RBs are not worth it
There are like 2-3 DTs that might be worth a pick, like Worthy or the guy from Clemson, Devon Sill

I honestly would like to see what we got in our rookie MLB before we spend a high pick there, I like his potential

I dont think we go QB, there are going to prolly be around 6-8 quality CBs and DTs to choose from in the first who would upgrade our defense

My guess is we target the best of those guys

I agree with your comments about the QB's. With 7 wins we aren't going to be in line to get one of them. John showed last year he valued draft picks so I don't see him giving up a 2nd round pick to move us up to the 10 range to get RGIII or Landry Jones. I still think Barkley is going to the Dolphins at pick 2 or 3 so you can forget about him and the Colts aren't dealing Luck IMO.

I don't agree that there are 4 or 5 DT's available in RD 1. From what I have read there isn't a DT with a first round grade as a top 20 selection. There is a kid from Clemson and Mich St. who are graded in the 20 to 40 range however. I still hope we go with a DB or ILB and take BPA in round 2. Does anyone know how Jenkins (the former Florida DB) has played this year. He was a potential top 10 pick before getting run out of Florida. I would probably take him in the late teens or early 20's of the 1st round if Claibore and Kirkpatrick are gone.

BroncoBeavis
11-23-2011, 08:30 PM
I love Tebow & anyone else thrilled with what we've seen in the last 5 weeks should agree that starting the season with Orton was the right move.

As much as I don't like Fox as a coach.....He's no dummy. He knew exactly when the bye week was coming and luckily decided to play to Tebow's strengths after 2 games of forcing the offense on him.

Had Tebow started the season...It would've been in the original offense and it would've been beyond ugly with all of the other units that are contributing now not having a real off-season.

He would NOT have just decided at the bye to trot out the new offense...He would've benched Tebow under tremendous pressure....And we'd be sitting here wondering if Orton or Quinn should start this week.

Tebow fans and especially Tebow fanatics should absolutely agree that starting Orton out of the gates was the right move. You guys like to harp on the FO for the "Best chance to win" quotes but it was obviously just coach speak.....Thank God Fox can saw the big picture more than a few nuts on a message board.

Ahhhhh. So throwing Timmy in at the half with zero reps against the Chargers was all just part of the plan.

Brilliant! :)

Shananahan
11-23-2011, 08:40 PM
we could go after Tyrann Mathieu in 2013
Not unless we suck again next year.

Br0nc0Buster
11-23-2011, 10:42 PM
I don't agree that there are 4 or 5 DT's available in RD 1. From what I have read there isn't a DT with a first round grade as a top 20 selection. There is a kid from Clemson and Mich St. who are graded in the 20 to 40 range however. I still hope we go with a DB or ILB and take BPA in round 2. Does anyone know how Jenkins (the former Florida DB) has played this year. He was a potential top 10 pick before getting run out of Florida. I would probably take him in the late teens or early 20's of the 1st round if Claibore and Kirkpatrick are gone.

You are thinking of Janoris Jenkins(former Florida CB)
I have not heard about him, he might end up in the supplemental draft
If not he prolly is a 2nd rounder, but I honestly would prefer to avoid those guys with high picks

I have seen guys like Sill, Worthey, and Thompson(Clemson guy I couldnt think of earlier) going as high as mid first in some mocks

Another thing I just thought of is I actually wouldnt mind at all if we went OT in the first
with the way pass rushers are being lined up all over the field now days having two bookends who can pass block seems important, I know there are two guys from Standford and Iowa that are ranked pretty high

At the least we could use that guy like how the Pats are using Solder and give our run game another boost

Requiem
11-23-2011, 10:54 PM
Ryan Lindley. Be a boss ****a.

Requiem
11-23-2011, 10:55 PM
You are thinking of Janoris Jenkins(former Florida CB)
I have not heard about him, he might end up in the supplemental draft
If not he prolly is a 2nd rounder, but I honestly would prefer to avoid those guys with high picks

I have seen guys like Sill, Worthey, and Thompson(Clemson guy I couldnt think of earlier) going as high as mid first in some mocks

Another thing I just thought of is I actually wouldnt mind at all if we went OT in the first
with the way pass rushers are being lined up all over the field now days having two bookends who can pass block seems important, I know there are two guys from Standford and Iowa that are ranked pretty high

At the least we could use that guy like how the Pats are using Solder and give our run game another boost

Jenkins is ballin' the **** out. Character concerns be damned, this stunna be going top 32.

Requiem
11-23-2011, 11:01 PM
Tannehill in the middle rounds or a little later round flier on Kellen Moore would seem like a reasonable path.


Tannehill is going in the first two rounds.

Manuel sucks cock.

/end

ZONA
11-24-2011, 12:11 AM
RG3 going top 15 in the 2nd round

fixed it for you.


Some of you guys who have RG3 in your top 5 are seriously off their rockers. Just because the Broncos and Carolina are sorta bucking the trend with these running QB's, I think most teams still are not willing to go that route. Yes, if there is a clear #1 guy like Newton, they will be willing to go high and get him. But see, Newton played in the toughest conference in college football, was on the National Championship team and is a big strong guy. Guys like RG3 (who is Vick like) just get busted up in the NFL. You have to be more then fast and flashy to be a high 1st round pick. And if you're not a traditional pocket passer, you sure as heck better be on a great team, play in a dominant conference and be big enough or you're simply not going early in the 1st.I honestly see this dude going very late 1st or high 2nd.

HAT
11-24-2011, 12:38 AM
fixed it for you.


Some of you guys who have RG3 in your top 5 are seriously off their rockers. Just because the Broncos and Carolina are sorta bucking the trend with these running QB's, I think most teams still are not willing to go that route. Yes, if there is a clear #1 guy like Newton, they will be willing to go high and get him. But see, Newton played in the toughest conference in college football, was on the National Championship team and is a big strong guy. Guys like RG3 (who is Vick like) just get busted up in the NFL. You have to be more then fast and flashy to be a high 1st round pick. And if you're not a traditional pocket passer, you sure as heck better be on a great team, play in a dominant conference and be big enough or you're simply not going early in the 1st.I honestly see this dude going very late 1st or high 2nd.


He's going top 10 easy. Not saying I agree with it but it's a foregone conclusion.

Br0nc0Buster
11-24-2011, 08:18 AM
fixed it for you.


Some of you guys who have RG3 in your top 5 are seriously off their rockers. Just because the Broncos and Carolina are sorta bucking the trend with these running QB's, I think most teams still are not willing to go that route. Yes, if there is a clear #1 guy like Newton, they will be willing to go high and get him. But see, Newton played in the toughest conference in college football, was on the National Championship team and is a big strong guy. Guys like RG3 (who is Vick like) just get busted up in the NFL. You have to be more then fast and flashy to be a high 1st round pick. And if you're not a traditional pocket passer, you sure as heck better be on a great team, play in a dominant conference and be big enough or you're simply not going early in the 1st.I honestly see this dude going very late 1st or high 2nd.

RGIII isnt a "running" qb, he is a passing one who can run

The guy is very accurate and can flat out make plays from the pocket as well as out of it

The guy's accuracy and mechanics are considered his strengths,that is not "Vick like"

elsid13
11-24-2011, 08:38 AM
Ryan Lindley. Be a boss ****a.

God no. Pat Delvin 2.0

TonyR
11-24-2011, 10:26 AM
He's going top 10 easy.

Absolutely. Particularly with so many teams needing QB's.

barryr
11-24-2011, 10:29 AM
RGIII isnt a "running" qb, he is a passing one who can run

The guy is very accurate and can flat out make plays from the pocket as well as out of it

The guy's accuracy and mechanics are considered his strengths,that is not "Vick like"

One benefit is he has also played since a freshman, so he has played a ton of games. Just like Andy Dalton, so he is someone that could come in and at least not turn the ball over so much like typical rookie QB's.

HAT
11-24-2011, 10:44 AM
Ahhhhh. So throwing Timmy in at the half with zero reps against the Chargers was all just part of the plan.

Brilliant! :)

No....The plan (as I've been saying since August) was to make the switch at the bye if Denver was 1-4 or 2-3.

By halftime of the SD game that record was a foregone conclusion so Fox said "**** it, may as well get the kid some snaps since he's starting in Miami anyway"