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LetsGoBroncos
11-21-2011, 08:33 AM
When asked if he is any closer to knowing who the QB is going to be next year than he was 6 weeks ago..."No."

Jay3
11-21-2011, 08:36 AM
That's a dumb answer. He doesn't have to commit to Tebow, or say he's got his answer yet, but "are you any closer?" Easy to say "We've seen some things, I think we're closer than we were when we didn't have a chance to see him play."

Even if he secretly thinks "I'm closer to knowing it's not Tebow," find a way to answer that's not "no."

Bahshay
11-21-2011, 08:38 AM
I'll say this about the front office, at least they are honest.

montrose
11-21-2011, 08:39 AM
Yup, went back to his tone from before the Chiefs game - somewhat distancing himself from Tim. Pointed out they have to be better in the passing game, was critical of Tebow's 3rd down conversions and the consecutive 3-and-outs. Gave a lot of credit to the defense and was very complimentary of McBean, Thomas and Bunkley.

Also talked about Elway being at the Baylor game although he tried to downplay that he was looking at QB and said he had to look at all positions (but lets be honest here, he went to look at RG3 just like he went to Stanford to look at Luck up to Boulder when Arizona was in town to see Foles).

Finally sounded very open to the possiblity of installing an Orton or Quinn package in passing situations per Bill Cowher's comments Sunday.

KO5K
11-21-2011, 08:39 AM
When Tebow is averaging something like 15 passes a game of which a large number of low % passes, it's going to be difficult to learn anything about him as a passer.

Fox/McCoy are just about putting Tebow in a position to win, but they're not giving him the opportunity to convince EFX to keep him around (not that that's necessarily a problem, wins are the most important thing to me as a fan).

theAPAOps5
11-21-2011, 08:40 AM
Conveniently left out that his follow up was Tim continues to get better but our third down needs to improve because where it is at won't win you a championship.

Felt it was an honest and thoughtful answer

KO5K
11-21-2011, 08:41 AM
Elway's reaction on Thursday was very telling.

You can bitch about trying too read to much into things, but the combination of a light applause and everything he's ever said makes a pretty easy conclusion that Elway is not on board the Tebow train.

FWIW, Xanders was fist pumping behind Elway.

Boobs McGee
11-21-2011, 08:45 AM
I thought it was interesting that he talked about "finally opening up" on the last drive with tebow...it sounded like they'd reigned him in purposely the entire game, right up until 5 minutes left in the fourth. Did I misinterpret what he said? Anyone else catch that?

tsiguy96
11-21-2011, 08:50 AM
Bill Cowher mentioned having an Orton or Quinn package - when asked, Elway said - "It might be something we think about this week".
-mhr

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-21-2011, 08:50 AM
That's a dumb answer. He doesn't have to commit to Tebow, or say he's got his answer yet, but "are you any closer?" Easy to say "We've seen some things, I think we're closer than we were when we didn't have a chance to see him play."

Even if he secretly thinks "I'm closer to knowing it's not Tebow," find a way to answer that's not "no."

Frankly, I'm glad Elway is focusing on the team, what it needs and where we'll go moving forward rather than public relations or worrying about the overly-sensitive nancies. "WAH! He needs to say THIS instead of THAT, because THIS would unwad my panties." Give me a break.

EVERYTHING is being evaluated. This isn't a one-man team, it never has been.

Jay3
11-21-2011, 08:53 AM
Frankly, I'm glad Elway is focusing on the team, what it needs and where we'll go moving forward rather than public relations or worrying about the overly-sensitive nancies. "WAH! He needs to say THIS instead of THAT, because THIS would unwad my panties." Give me a break.

EVERYTHING is being evaluated. This isn't a one-man team, it never has been.

I just flatly don't believe the answer -- there's no way he's not any closer. Whether it's to the good or bad. He's going into clinch-up mode because it was a Tebow question and his brain locked.

TailgateNut
11-21-2011, 08:54 AM
Kinda where I sit. I'm not convinced yet that this is the BEST WE CAN DO.

Ray Finkle
11-21-2011, 08:59 AM
I think he is waiting until Tim has played 11 games to determine his status.

CEH
11-21-2011, 08:59 AM
Elway says the passing game is not good enough to win Championships
"Ahhh no" was his answer to if he was closer to a decision. Elway made it clear you cannot win Championships going 3 and out seven times.

I would have hoped he was a little more positive about Tim but he was pretty critical of the offense and by extentsion Tebow when Elway says it's the QB primary job to convert 3rd downs

KO5K
11-21-2011, 08:59 AM
Bill Cowher mentioned having an Orton or Quinn package - when asked, Elway said - "It might be something we think about this week".
-mhr

For real?

Watch Orton execute a perfect 80 yard drive for a touchdown. Then on the next drive Fox can hardly put Tebow back in so Orton stays out only this time he goes three and out. On the next drive, Fox decides that first drive was so good that Orton should go back out and hey presto, we're back to watching ****ing Orton again. Eventually we'll lose the game but Orton will have looked good passing on a few drives so he ends up taking the job back.

Seriously can't believe they're actually considering this.

Bahshay
11-21-2011, 09:01 AM
I just flatly don't believe the answer -- there's no way he's not any closer. Whether it's to the good or bad. He's going into clinch-up mode because it was a Tebow question and his brain locked.

Well, if at the start of the season he didn't know who his 2012 QB was going to be, and he still doesn't know who his 2012 QB is going to be, then he is no closer. Even if he is becoming more certain that Tebow won't be the start, he is still no closer to knowing who will be.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 09:04 AM
This is what happens when you ahve guys who get paid to do nothing... too many people sitting around trying to make it look like they are earning all the money they get.. over analysis...

Elway should be thinking about replacing the guys developing Tebow not Tebow..

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 09:04 AM
For real?

Watch Orton execute a perfect 80 yard drive for a touchdown. Then on the next drive Fox can hardly put Tebow back in so Orton stays out only this time he goes three and out. On the next drive, Fox decides that first drive was so good that Orton should go back out and hey presto, we're back to watching ****ing Orton again. Eventually we'll lose the game but Orton will have looked good passing on a few drives so he ends up taking the job back.

Seriously can't believe they're actually considering this.

Put Orton in there early in the game and only between the 20s. Have Tebow work the red zone and entire 4th quarter.

Can't be any uglier than what we've been fielding recently.

Ray Finkle
11-21-2011, 09:04 AM
Per Vic Lombardi:

Gotta give Elway credit regarding his assessment of Tebow. He's been nothing but honest with us. He wants to see improvement on 3rd down

edog24
11-21-2011, 09:05 AM
Put Orton in there early in the game and only between the 20s. Have Tebow work the red zone and entire 4th quarter.

Can't be any uglier than what we've been fielding recently.

Ug, not this ****e again.

KO5K
11-21-2011, 09:05 AM
Put Orton in there early in the game and only between the 20s. Have Tebow work the red zone and entire 4th quarter.

Can't be any uglier than what we've been fielding recently.

But if Orton goes in throws a few nice passes and gets to the redzone, how can you then pull the guy?

Seriously, I don't quite understand how EFX can actually be considering this.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
This isn't a one-man team, it never has been.
Actually, it pretty much is. Maybe a two man team; Tebow and Miller.

We're in pretty much the same boat as the Colts. And before you poop your pants about comparing Tebow to Manning, relax. I'm not comparing them at all, but the situations.

The Colts are completely a one man team. They're a perennial 10-13 win team with Manning, and a 0 win team without him. Yes there are 52 other players, but the success hinges on 1 man.

Tell me the difference between this year's 1-4 Broncos and this years 4-1 Broncos. One Man can make all the difference in the world. We've seen it all year with the Colts and we've seen it the last 5 weeks with the Broncos.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
Bill Cowher mentioned having an Orton or Quinn package - when asked, Elway said - "It might be something we think about this week".
-mhr

Elway should be fired if he does this...

Ray Finkle
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
But if Orton goes in throws a few nice passes and gets to the redzone, how can you then pull the guy?

Seriously, I don't quite understand how EFX can actually be considering this.

or could it be Elway refusing to tell the truth.....imagine that, A front office not being truthful....

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 09:07 AM
Put Orton in

Seriously, are there people dumb enough to actually consider this?

jhns
11-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Who cares? Tebow is making it pretty hard to replace him anyways. It isn't like there are many young QBs outplaying him. They can try replacing him with a non top of the draft QB. When that QB comes out losing games, we will get another new front office. They know this, so it won't happen if we keep winning.

As fir the third down comments, you should look at your coordinators. You can't blame Tebow if you are running on so many third downs. You can't blame Tebow when so many third down passes are routes that are two yards short of the first down. Now, if that is what you think is winning you games, do it. Until you open it up though, you can't claim it is on Tebow.

Blart
11-21-2011, 09:11 AM
Breaking News: Elway Admits to Atheism on Vic & Gary just now

edog24
11-21-2011, 09:12 AM
This seems like it could be one of several things.

1. He is lying, Tebow all the way.
2. He has gone effing stupid since his playing days and thinks Orton is actually a decent player.
3. He doesn't like Tebow and will sell the farm for Luck damn the consequences.
4. The 2 other legs on the stool are telling him to play Tebow and he doesn't like it so he says stupid crap like this to the media over and over again.

jhns
11-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Put Orton in there early in the game and only between the 20s. Have Tebow work the red zone and entire 4th quarter.

Can't be any uglier than what we've been fielding recently.

Except Orton was turning the ball over constantly between the 20s. This was losing this team games. Why do you hate the Broncos?

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 09:13 AM
From the things I am seeing now I feel very convinced this starting Tebow was in fact sabotage..

There can really be no question now.

Tebow is winning and they are still throwing him under the bus. They played the crappiest gameplan around Tebow.. he still won and they act like they want to bench him for Orton.

They DID in fact start him because of fan outcry. I also think Fox or Elway was the guy that said Tebow was third string.

And to suggest these guys are being "honest" is ludicrous.

If they are being honest they are truly mentally handicapped to do the retarded things they are doing schematically..

NFLBRONCO
11-21-2011, 09:15 AM
I need to see Tebow play better on 3rd down
I need to see Tebow beat a team with a pulse offensively

We will need a QB regardless of his view on Tebow.

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 09:15 AM
Why do you hate the Broncos?

Because if you love them, it must be wrong to love them.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-21-2011, 09:16 AM
Why do you hate the Broncos?

Can't you post anything without this ****ing bull****?

srphoenix
11-21-2011, 09:17 AM
Didn't Bowlen make some statement about Tebow along the lines of "Better keep him around" I don't think Tebow is going anywhere anytime soon and I don't think we'll be drafting a first round qb.

jhns
11-21-2011, 09:18 AM
Can't you post anything without this ****ing bull****?

Can't people stop trolling and hating on the Broncos? Ortonites and McFans are a bunch of clowns. It is pretty clear that you don't know the first thing about the NFL.

HAT
11-21-2011, 09:19 AM
But if Orton goes in throws a few nice passes and gets to the redzone, how can you then pull the guy?



The same way a tailback rips off 60 yards only to be replaced by someone else on 1st & goal from the 1.

I hope Elway's not just blowing smoke & Fox is actually considering this. Playoffs for sure if that's the case.

KO5K
11-21-2011, 09:23 AM
I'm just looking at some situational stats.

Tebow has only attempted eight passes on 3D < 6, compared to 26 on 3D 6+.

That is awful, no wonder our success rate is so poor.

Maybe McCoy should stop running it for no gain on every first ****ing down.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 09:23 AM
The same way a tailback rips off 60 yards only to be replaced by someone else on 1st & goal from the 1.

I hope Elway's not just blowing smoke & Fox is actually considering this. Playoffs for sure if that's the case.

The defense is going to go in the tank if they play Orton/Quinn.. because the run game will go in the tank.

Steve Prefontaine
11-21-2011, 09:29 AM
I need to see Tebow play better on 3rd down
I need to see Tebow beat a team with a pulse offensively

We will need a QB regardless of his view on Tebow.

Raiders?

edog24
11-21-2011, 09:31 AM
The same way a tailback rips off 60 yards only to be replaced by someone else on 1st & goal from the 1.

I hope Elway's not just blowing smoke & Fox is actually considering this. Playoffs for sure if that's the case.

Yup, that's good rationale. I think RBs and QBs pretty much have the same skillset. We play all the qbs in every game just to keep them fresh.

The Joker
11-21-2011, 09:33 AM
2nd year QB comes in, goes 4-1 with a team that was 1-4 before he took over. Makes 3 4th quarter comebacks in that period.

Yeah, let's have him sit out a few snaps a game for a proven loser.

Awesome idea.

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 09:34 AM
Didn't Bowlen make some statement about Tebow along the lines of "Better keep him around" I don't think Tebow is going anywhere anytime soon and I don't think we'll be drafting a first round qb.

lately, Pat has had trouble handling NFL QB's.

ColoradoDarin
11-21-2011, 09:38 AM
Thankfully Elway is VP of Ops and not coach. No way Fox is putting Orton back in.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 09:39 AM
For real?

Watch Orton execute a perfect 80 yard drive for a touchdown. Then on the next drive Fox can hardly put Tebow back in so Orton stays out only this time he goes three and out. On the next drive, Fox decides that first drive was so good that Orton should go back out and hey presto, we're back to watching ****ing Orton again. Eventually we'll lose the game but Orton will have looked good passing on a few drives so he ends up taking the job back.

Seriously can't believe they're actually considering this.

This.

You just cant do this.

The strange thing about the whole concept is that its based on the assumption that "Tim cant win when he's behind" But...that's...what...he .... keeps...doing? For all his warts, THAT's been his thing.

People keep pointing to his lack of completions, but again, he doesnt have a **** load of attempts. I cant stand it when people point to the KC game and say "2 completions!" yet convienently leave out that he only had 8 attempts and he's not exactly the one calling the plays.

I'm really not sure what they are afraid of. I think he's had one pick in something like 120 passes? And they consistently put him in ****ty throwing situations (never ever do we throw on first down...LAWD FOH-BID!)

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 09:40 AM
This seems like it could be one of several things.

1. He is lying, Tebow all the way.
2. He has gone effing stupid since his playing days and thinks Orton is actually a decent player.
3. He doesn't like Tebow and will sell the farm for Luck damn the consequences.
4. The 2 other legs on the stool are telling him to play Tebow and he doesn't like it so he says stupid crap like this to the media over and over again.

Lost in all this...

Luck has looked kinda **** since the USC game. Dunno why, but he has.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 09:41 AM
From the things I am seeing now I feel very convinced this starting Tebow was in fact sabotage..

There can really be no question now.

Tebow is winning and they are still throwing him under the bus. They played the crappiest gameplan around Tebow.. he still won and they act like they want to bench him for Orton.

They DID in fact start him because of fan outcry. I also think Fox or Elway was the guy that said Tebow was third string.

And to suggest these guys are being "honest" is ludicrous.

If they are being honest they are truly mentally handicapped to do the retarded things they are doing schematically..

Like the tribe from "Major League"

zdoor
11-21-2011, 09:42 AM
2nd year QB comes in, goes 4-1 with a team that was 1-4 before he took over. Makes 3 4th quarter comebacks in that period.

Yeah, let's have him sit out a few snaps a game for a proven loser.

Awesome idea.

This

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 09:42 AM
Yup, went back to his tone from before the Chiefs game - somewhat distancing himself from Tim. Pointed out they have to be better in the passing game, was critical of Tebow's 3rd down conversions and the consecutive 3-and-outs. Gave a lot of credit to the defense and was very complimentary of McBean, Thomas and Bunkley.

Also talked about Elway being at the Baylor game although he tried to downplay that he was looking at QB and said he had to look at all positions (but lets be honest here, he went to look at RG3 just like he went to Stanford to look at Luck up to Boulder when Arizona was in town to see Foles).

Finally sounded very open to the possiblity of installing an Orton or Quinn package in passing situations per Bill Cowher's comments Sunday.

I would be curious to see how many times we ran on 3rd down. The 3rd down playcalling has been less than inspiring.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 09:43 AM
Putting Orton to drive down to the 20! Great idea...except it's actually the dumbest idea ever! Tebow is doing just fine winning games with pocket sloth on the bench. We don't need him coming into a game mid drive/game just to turn the ball over. Hopefully John was just saying that to not disrespect a former HoF coach. Can't believe anyone would ever consider this or even say it. Give Tebow a chance...like i don't know, throwing on first down..changing the play calling up a little bit?? Maybe??

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 09:44 AM
Can't people stop trolling and hating on the Broncos? Ortonites and McFans are a bunch of clowns. It is pretty clear that you don't know the first thing about the NFL.

Ummm, Elway brought it up. Not anyone here. Is he a troll? Does he hate the Broncos? Is he an Ortonite/McFan? Does he not know the first thing about the NFL?

WolfpackGuy
11-21-2011, 09:46 AM
If anybody goes in to sub for Tebow, it should be Weber.

Noone wants to see Orton or Quinn outside of the other team.

BroncoBen
11-21-2011, 09:47 AM
Conveniently left out that his follow up was Tim continues to get better but our third down needs to improve because where it is at won't win you a championship.

Felt it was an honest and thoughtful answer

That is what I was going to say.. Elway was being honest about 3rd down conversions and how you can't win Championships unless you can 'consistently' convert 3rd downs.

Blart
11-21-2011, 09:50 AM
4-1 is a nice record, but keep this in mind:

Kyle Orton was 10-5 in his first year as a starter. He began his Broncos career 6-0.

The bandwagon cleared much faster than it filled.

Taco John
11-21-2011, 09:51 AM
An Orton package? Elway is apparently interested in hearing fans booing for a few plays a game or something. What a terrible idea.

KO5K
11-21-2011, 09:51 AM
That is what I was going to say.. Elway was being honest about 3rd down conversions and how you can't win Championships unless you can 'consistently' convert 3rd downs.

How can you complain about Tebow's third down success rate when he has only attempted eight passes on 3D < 6?

Eight attempts in 5.5 games. How anyone can expect a high success rate with those sort of statistics is beyond me.

jhns
11-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Ummm, Elway brought it up. Not anyone here. Is he a troll? Does he hate the Broncos? Is he an Ortonite/McFan? Does he not know the first thing about the NFL?

Actually, Elway didn't bring it up. He also never called it a good idea. Nice try though.

HAT
11-21-2011, 09:52 AM
Putting Orton to drive down to the 20! Great idea...except it's actually the dumbest idea ever! Tebow is doing just fine winning games with pocket sloth on the bench. We don't need him coming into a game mid drive/game just to turn the ball over.

Doesn't need to be Orton....Quinn/Weber/Foles/Tannehill/etc. would be just as well.

Fox has already shown that he's willing to think outside the box...Let's see him take it to the next level and use a 2 QB mix to their strengths.

Garcia Bronco
11-21-2011, 09:54 AM
Yup, went back to his tone from before the Chiefs game - somewhat distancing himself from Tim. Pointed out they have to be better in the passing game, was critical of Tebow's 3rd down conversions and the consecutive 3-and-outs. Gave a lot of credit to the defense and was very complimentary of McBean, Thomas and Bunkley.

Also talked about Elway being at the Baylor game although he tried to downplay that he was looking at QB and said he had to look at all positions (but lets be honest here, he went to look at RG3 just like he went to Stanford to look at Luck up to Boulder when Arizona was in town to see Foles).

Finally sounded very open to the possiblity of installing an Orton or Quinn package in passing situations per Bill Cowher's comments Sunday.

WTF is RG3?

jhns
11-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Doesn't need to be Orton....Quinn/Weber/Foles/Tannehill/etc. would be just as well.

Fox has already shown that he's willing to think outside the box...Let's see him take it to the next level and use a 2 QB mix to their strengths.

Yeah! 4-1 shows the current formula isn't working! Better change it up!

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Actually, Elway didn't bring it up. He also never called it a good idea. Nice try though.

Oh, please. The reporter asked him about it and he didn't rule it out. Feel free to show me where he ruled it out or said it was a bad idea.

Too bad it wasn't a link to a video interview so you could have your usual go to excuse of "I can't view it now on my phone. I'll get back to you later though."

WolfpackGuy
11-21-2011, 09:57 AM
WTF is RG3?

That Baylor guy.

RG2's son....

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 09:57 AM
That Baylor guy.

RG2's son....

Grandson of RG

BroncoInferno
11-21-2011, 09:58 AM
What I want to see them do is just throw caution to the wind and let Tebow play his game for 4 quarters. We've seen two instances now - the Miami and Jets game - where Tebow struggles mightily trying to play within the confines of the gameplan, then turns it on at the end when he has more freedom to improvise. You can see he's pressing trying to execute things the way the coaches expect and suppressing his improvisional instincts. But we've seen in those two games that when the gameplan goes out of the window and Tim starts improvising, low and behold, the offense starts moving. Can you let him play that way for an entire game with success? I don't know. But why not give it a try before we start talking about Quinn/Orton packages?

HAT
11-21-2011, 10:00 AM
Yeah! 4-1 shows the current formula isn't working! Better change it up!

5-5 using a single QB with deficiencies in their game. Do it Fox.

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Oh, please. The reporter asked him about it and he didn't rule it out. Feel free to show me where he ruled it out or said it was a bad idea.

Too bad it wasn't a link to a video interview so you could have your usual go to excuse of "I can't view it now on my phone. I'll get back to you later though."

I don't have an iphone. Wtf are you even talking about?

He didn't rule it out. Just like he didn't bring it up or say that it was a good idea. Typical front office speak. Your spin is terrible. Almost as bad as this idea.

If you had flowed this team at all, you would know that they have ruled this out though. They have clearly stated multiple times that Quinn will be the next QB to play. They aren't going to put the 1-4 QB in for any situation, outside of the other two getting injured. This is esoecially true when looking at how much he sucked before we gave away his top target.

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:02 AM
5-5 using a single QB with deficiencies in their game. Do it Fox.

4-1, clearly not working!

I expect nothing less from McFans like you.

HAT
11-21-2011, 10:04 AM
4-1, clearly not working!
.

I'd rather they be undefeated and smashing teams. Do it Fox.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 10:05 AM
5-5 using a single QB with deficiencies in their game. Do it Fox.

I just don't understand how this would work.

They blew their chance to make something similar work. If Orton was taken out of goal line situations in the early games, Broncos probably win those


They've crossed the point of no return.

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:05 AM
I'd rather they be undefeated and smashing teams. Do it Fox.

So put the 1-4 guy back in? Smart.

elsid13
11-21-2011, 10:05 AM
Elway is looking at the big picture and right now he knows that need a QB to convert on the 3rd and longs if they want to win consistent basis. We are drafting QB next year, question is going to be one they want to challenge Tebow from the start or are they going to let him develop for a year.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 10:05 AM
I'd rather they be undefeated and smashing teams. Do it Fox.

Explain how you'd like to see this work

theAPAOps5
11-21-2011, 10:06 AM
From the things I am seeing now I feel very convinced this starting Tebow was in fact sabotage..

There can really be no question now.

Tebow is winning and they are still throwing him under the bus. They played the crappiest gameplan around Tebow.. he still won and they act like they want to bench him for Orton.

They DID in fact start him because of fan outcry. I also think Fox or Elway was the guy that said Tebow was third string.

And to suggest these guys are being "honest" is ludicrous.

If they are being honest they are truly mentally handicapped to do the retarded things they are doing schematically..

A witch hunt if you will.

NFLBRONCO
11-21-2011, 10:06 AM
Raiders?

Well for most of the 2nd half they did next to nothing offense wise and imo McFadden is the guy that tears us up and he did not play.

HAT
11-21-2011, 10:07 AM
So put the 1-4 guy back in? Smart.

See post 57.

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:09 AM
See post 57.

Oh, so even worse pkayers will make it better!

Typical hat.

frerottenextelway
11-21-2011, 10:11 AM
Orton gives us our best chance to win.

theAPAOps5
11-21-2011, 10:13 AM
Orton gives us our best chance to win Andrew Luck.

Fixed it for you.

55CrushEm
11-21-2011, 10:13 AM
An Orton package? Elway is apparently interested in hearing fans booing for a few plays a game or something. What a terrible idea.

Exactly. Maybe there's a reason that Elway isn't a coach....and Cowher no longer is, either.

Hmmmmm.......

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 10:14 AM
I don't have an iphone. Wtf are you even talking about?

I never said you had an iphone. WTF are you even talking about?

If you had flowed this team at all, you would know that they have ruled this out though. They have clearly stated multiple times that Quinn will be the next QB to play.

Ummmm, link or you're lying.

(pretty hard to say Quinn will be there in front of Orton when he's been declared inactive, but whatever)

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/10/30/brady-quinn-inactive-again/10454/

TonyR
11-21-2011, 10:15 AM
...Pointed out they have to be better in the passing game, was critical of Tebow's 3rd down conversions and the consecutive 3-and-outs. Gave a lot of credit to the defense...

Elway's paying attention and is tuned in to reality. I consider this a strong positive. Regardless of who is or isn't to blame, and also regardless of the end results, against the Jets our passing game wasn't very good, our 3rd down conversion rate wasn't very good, and the defense carried us.

Steve Prefontaine
11-21-2011, 10:15 AM
Well for most of the 2nd half they did next to nothing offense wise and imo McFadden is the guy that tears usa up and he did not play.

Good point. Michael Bush is looking pretty bad.

theAPAOps5
11-21-2011, 10:15 AM
I never said you had an iphone. WTF are you even talking about?



Ummmm, link or you're lying.

To be fair it has been stated NUMEROUS times on Denver radio that Quinn is the next in line. There is no link because it is all off the record type information. But as dirty as it makes me feel I see jhns point.

elsid13
11-21-2011, 10:15 AM
I never said you had an iphone. WTF are you even talking about?



Ummmm, link or you're lying.

The NFL crew mention it last game. Doesn't mean it true since both Quinn and Orton are listed as the #2 QB.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 10:16 AM
Maybe there's a reason that Elway isn't a coach....and Cowher no longer is, either.


Cowher isnt a coach because he chooses not to be. You act like he got fired from his job and nobody has shown interest in hiring him. The exact opposite is true on both counts.

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:17 AM
I never said you had an iphone. WTF are you even talking about?

Ummmm, link or you're lying.

Ok, then remove the iphone part and just let me ask wtf are you talking about?

Google is your friend. You spend all this time on a Bronco forum and you don't even know what is going on with the team. Sad.

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 10:19 AM
To be fair it has been stated NUMEROUS times on Denver radio that Quinn is the next in line. There is no link because it is all off the record type information. But as dirty as it makes me feel I see jhns point.

Maybe something has changed recently, but Quinn was completely inactive for all but the last two games. Not even emergency #3.

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 10:22 AM
Ok, then remove the iphone part and just let me ask wtf are you talking about?

Your practice of not being able to respond to youtube clips or access certain links to stats during the day on your phone, only to come back with "I can refute this, but will have to wait to do it until I get home tonight" only to never do so. You've done this more than once.

Google is your friend. You spend all this time on a Bronco forum and you don't even know what is going on with the team. Sad.

It's your job to provide evidence of your claims. I can't google a quote that doesn't exist and was never written.

errand
11-21-2011, 10:26 AM
That's a dumb answer. He doesn't have to commit to Tebow, or say he's got his answer yet, but "are you any closer?" Easy to say "We've seen some things, I think we're closer than we were when we didn't have a chance to see him play."

Even if he secretly thinks "I'm closer to knowing it's not Tebow," find a way to answer that's not "no."

Yet one more example of a Tebowite not hearing what he wants to hear and getting all pissy about it......

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Your practice of not being able to respond to youtube clips or access certain links to stats during the day on your phone, only to come back with "I can refute this, but will have to wait to do it until I get home tonight" only to never do so. You've done this more than once.



It's your job to provide evidence of your claims. I can't google a quote that doesn't exist and was never written.

Show me where I did that. I post youtube clips and have no problem viewing them on my phone. My phone has a youtube app that came with it. It is pretty obvious that you are a troll who created a new account. I said that about three years ago when I had a Blackberry...

There are multiple quotes. You can google them. It isn't my job to get you caught up on the basics.

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 10:28 AM
who cares.....regardless of Tebow's play, there will be at the least, two open roster spots for QB's next year.

errand
11-21-2011, 10:29 AM
I thought it was interesting that he talked about "finally opening up" on the last drive with tebow...it sounded like they'd reigned him in purposely the entire game, right up until 5 minutes left in the fourth. Did I misinterpret what he said? Anyone else catch that?

Oh, the irony that john elway would purposely try to destroy Tebow until the final minutes where he then says "go win it for us timmy".....just like Reeves use to do to him right?

God, where is B-Love when you need him to set the record straight....

Blart
11-21-2011, 10:30 AM
who cares.....regardless of Tebow's play, there will be at the least, two open roster spots for QB's next year.

Excellent point. Broncos *have* to scout and draft at least 1 QB, it doesn't mean they want to replace Tebow.

zdoor
11-21-2011, 10:32 AM
I never said you had an iphone. WTF are you even talking about?



Ummmm, link or you're lying.

(pretty hard to say Quinn will be there in front of Orton when he's been declared inactive, but whatever)

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/10/30/brady-quinn-inactive-again/10454/

Elway said it during the pre-game interview on NFLN. Is likely on the NFL website or on you tube....

cabronco
11-21-2011, 10:38 AM
Get ready for the quadruple option ! :D

KO at QB, TT at FB, WM at TB...actually quite a backfield.

Kyle with the option to pass, hand-off, or go fetal.

TT w/option to run , pass, or pitch to WM.

WM runs the rock down opponents throats.

DenverBroncosJM
11-21-2011, 10:38 AM
Elway said it during the pre-game interview on NFLN. Is likely on the NFL website or on you tube....

I posted the video he says clearly that Quinn is up next if Tebow goes down

jhns
11-21-2011, 10:40 AM
Elway said it during the pre-game interview on NFLN. Is likely on the NFL website or on you tube....

Yup. That is one place.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3376845&postcount=1

He also said it like three weeks ago. He said if Tebow struggles, Quinn is the next man up.

errand
11-21-2011, 10:42 AM
For real?

Watch Orton execute a perfect 80 yard drive for a touchdown. Then on the next drive Fox can hardly put Tebow back in so Orton stays out only this time he goes three and out. On the next drive, Fox decides that first drive was so good that Orton should go back out and hey presto, we're back to watching ****ing Orton again. Eventually we'll lose the game but Orton will have looked good passing on a few drives so he ends up taking the job back.

Seriously can't believe they're actually considering this.

And you know for a fact that if Orton looked good on a "few drives" that he'd get the starting gig back?

And wouldn't we have to see how we eventually lost this fantasy game you're talking about? What if we lost it on Bailey getting burned...or someone missing a tackle...or a McGahee fumble...or one of those numerous dropped passes that mysteriously started happening around game 6...or what if it was a Tebow pick six?

I'm sure in your mind the only cause of every loss has something to do with Orton, but really? And if Orton executes a "perfect" (your words not mine) 80 yard TD drive, why wouldn't he deserve a chance to see if he can do it again?

Isn't that how Tebow won the job in the first place? Orton playing like crap and Tebow coming in off bench and playing better? so why shouldn't it be the same standard for Tebow? If he plays like crap, why can't he be replaced as well?

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 10:42 AM
Yup. That is one place.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3376845&postcount=1

He also said it like three weeks ago. He said if Tebow struggles, Quinn is the next man up.

And yet Orton was listed as the #2 in the game day rosters and Quinn was still declared INACTIVE (not even available in emergency) during games AFTER that quote. What does that tell you?

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 10:45 AM
Elway should be fired if he does this...

This or who ever gives Orton a shot again. Orton sucks. His is not right for this team. He hates the fans and probably the coaching staff now as well. I just can't see this happening.

It's all about win and losses.

1-4 with Orton great stats
4-1 with Tebow ugly stats


Who do you want ?

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Put Orton in there early in the game and only between the 20s. Have Tebow work the red zone and entire 4th quarter.

Can't be any uglier than what we've been fielding recently.

You mean something many wanted at the beginning of the year? Maybe we are the geniuses behind the team.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=3536

errand
11-21-2011, 10:48 AM
Seriously, are there people dumb enough to actually consider this?

so there is not one scenario other than injury that Tebow should be replaced in a game? He can go 2-10 and we're down by 20 with o 3rd downs converted and our running game getting stuffed and you wouldn't even consider making a change to Orton, quinn, or pull elway's ass down outta the owner's box?

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 10:51 AM
My biggest problem with this is how can you be so hard on Timmy when he has gotten us back up to 500 and given us a chance at the playoffs?

Even if he is not the best person for the job he elevates everyone around him. Our team is playing better football as a whole then they have in the last decade. I think it's pretty shoty of the front office not to at least give him a pat on the back. Little disappointed in that.

KO5K
11-21-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm sure in your mind the only cause of every loss has something to do with Orton, but really? And if Orton executes a "perfect" (your words not mine) 80 yard TD drive, why wouldn't he deserve a chance to see if he can do it again?

A chance to see if he could do it again? Was two and a half years not enough time?

Isn't that how Tebow won the job in the first place? Orton playing like crap and Tebow coming in off bench and playing better? so why shouldn't it be the same standard for Tebow? If he plays like crap, why can't he be replaced as well?

He's 4-1, dumbass.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 10:52 AM
so there is not one scenario other than injury that Tebow should be replaced in a game? He can go 2-10 and we're down by 20 with o 3rd downs converted and our running game getting stuffed and you wouldn't even consider making a change to Orton, quinn, or pull elway's ass down outta the owner's box?

I guess losing by a ton is "stay on course" mentality. It isnt dumb. We are now in a position to win our division and watching an enept offense or enept offensive game planning by McCoy can't be tolerated. Maybe they feel comfortable with the plays for Orton than Tebow. I would rather have Tebow figure out the accuracy and have him play the whole game. Good teams offensively are not going to give us the chance to win with 5 minutes left to play.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 11:01 AM
Elway is being just as 'FAIR' as they were when they picked the 2011 starter.
Pre-season PER: Tebow 108 - Orton 104 - Quinn 69 (only idiots ignore the facts/stats)

Try comparing Tebow's first 8 start results to St. John's and see what you get.
Better yet, compare Tebow to the current Top 5 NFL QB's in their first 8 NFL starts. :welcome:

Given EVERY advantage, it still took P.Manning 7 seasons to get to and win a SB.
It took ole St. John about twice as long to do it in Denver
.
But Tebow, with little to no help, training, or even decent encouragement, is expected to not just exceed those
Top NFL QB's, he supposed to be doing it after just 8 chittty starts that were split up over 2 seasons? WTF ???

Tebow 2nd season, 8 total starts, (due to the Broncos FAILURE to properly utilize Tim).

2010/11 Orton 4 - 14, for a .222 winning %
2010/11 Tebow 5 - 3, for a .625 winning %
How smart do you need to be to decide which QB gives you THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN ???

Tebow's 2011 TD/Int Ratio is 7 to 1 (#2 in the NFL behind only A.Rogers).
Tebow 2011 - 8 gms, 5 starts - 56 of 125, 44.8% for 709 yds, 12.7 yds/comp, 7 TD's, 1 Int, PER 78.4
Tebow's career TD/Int Ratio (12/4) is 3 to 1.

Tebow 2011 Rushing - 56 for 388 yds, 6.9 ypc, 3 TD's.
Career Rushing - 99 for 615 yds, 6.2 ypc, 9 TD's, 5 fumbles, 1 lost poss fumble.


Tebow:
207 Passes, 4 Ints -- 1 Int per 51.8 passes.
One Lost Possession Fumble (1 - LPF) per 99 runs.
Only One Turnover per 61.2 NFL Snaps. <------<<<

Keys to winning in the NFL:
1) run the ball
2) stop the run
3) DONT TURN THE BALL OVER!!!

[Q]Bill Cowher mentioned having an Orton or Quinn package -

Perseason PER in the 'Fair' QB Competition: Tebow 108 - Orton 104 - Quinn 69 (only idiots ignore the facts/stats)

PS

Tebow averaged 27 pass attempts per game in a 'normal' offense before Elway/Fox arrived.
Tebow is doing well 'in spite of Elway/Fox,,, not because of anything that they have helped him with.

Tebow is 4-1 in spite of Elway/Fox trading away the Broncos Top 2 WR's from 2010.
One was the Broncos only 2010 Pro Bowler, and the other is the Skins leading 2011 receiver.
Do that to any other NFL QB and watch what happens to their passing game. :drown:

The Broncos are winning now because of the Tebow/[B]TEAM combination, not because Fox is suddenly some kind of coaching genius.
The ONLY difference between a 1-4 Fox team, and a 4-1 Fox team,,,, IS TEBOW as the starter!
And Tim's still doing it without Lloyd & Gaffney.

Fox has done nothing imo to turn the team around.
I'll give McCoy some credit for being open to Tebow's suggestion that they include some 'other' plays (that work) ]
to the 'normal' Fox/McCoy offense.

As I've said before, I'd have hired Elway to QB my team back in the day in a NY second, but he's now proven to be to
dumb to ever be allowed to marry my daughter... :wiggle:

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 11:03 AM
Honest question: has anyone other than baja ever read an entire Alpha post?

errand
11-21-2011, 11:03 AM
Who cares?

evi-damn-dently somebody cares cuz this thread is already at 5-6 pages long

Tebow is making it pretty hard to replace him anyways. It isn't like there are many young QBs outplaying him.

and as long as he wins games, or even shows marked improvement from start 1 to start 11, i agree we shouldn't replace him, and he's earned the starter's gig headed into next year


They can try replacing him with a non top of the draft QB. When that QB comes out losing games, we will get another new front office. They know this, so it won't happen if we keep winning.

how would you know we'd lose with a non top draft pick playing QB? Numerous QB's with lesser pedigrees than Tebow have won alot of games, led teams to the playoffs and even a super bowl or two, actually winning a few as well. I mean hell Kurt Warner just retired this past season....to name the most current guy


As fir the third down comments, you should look at your coordinators.

you mean the same coordinators who have changed our entire offense to suit Tebow's skill set?

You can't blame Tebow if you are running on so many third downs.

again they changed the entire offense to take advantage of Tebow's skill set, so how is it their fault that he's a better runner than a passer? Perhaps they call so many 3rd down runs because they've seen in practice and game film that he's not capable of passing the ball as well?


can't blame Tebow when so many third down passes are routes that are two yards short of the first down.

Have you not seen all those "smart" passes he's been throwing? Maybe the WR's break their routes off shorter due to them knowing the ball will be "smartly" thrown into the turf before they're done running their actual routes? but what the hell, they've been dropping passes left and right for the past 5 games anyways, so why not just let timmy run the ball

Now, if that is what you think is winning you games, do it. Until you open it up though, you can't claim it is on Tebow.

and would it be too much to ask Tebow to complete at least half of his passes before you allow him to throw more passes?


in bold

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:04 AM
Maybe something has changed recently, but Quinn was completely inactive for all but the last two games. Not even emergency #3.

There's no such thing as emergency #3 anymore, and Elway stated out loud, on national TV that Quinn was next up on Thursday.

KO5K
11-21-2011, 11:06 AM
Elway is being just as 'FAIR' as they were when they picked the 2011 starter.
Pre-season PER: Tebow 108 - Orton 104 - Quinn 69 (only idiots ignore the facts/stats)

Try comparing Tebow's first 8 start results to St. John's and see what you get.
Better yet, compare Tebow to the current Top 5 NFL QB's in their first 8 NFL starts. :welcome:

Given EVERY advantage, it still took P.Manning 7 seasons to get to and win a SB.
It took ole St. John about twice as long to do it in Denver
.
But Tebow, with little to no help, training, or even decent encouragement, is expected to not just exceed those
Top NFL QB's, he supposed to be doing it after just 8 chittty starts that were split up over 2 seasons? WTF ???

Tebow 2nd season, 8 total starts, (due to the Broncos FAILURE to properly utilize Tim).

2010/11 Orton 4 - 14, for a .222 winning %
2010/11 Tebow 5 - 3, for a .625 winning %
How smart do you need to be to decide which QB gives you THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN ???

Tebow's 2011 TD/Int Ratio is 7 to 1 (#2 in the NFL behind only A.Rogers).
Tebow 2011 - 8 gms, 5 starts - 56 of 125, 44.8% for 709 yds, 12.7 yds/comp, 7 TD's, 1 Int, PER 78.4
Tebow's career TD/Int Ratio (12/4) is 3 to 1.

Tebow 2011 Rushing - 56 for 388 yds, 6.9 ypc, 3 TD's.
Career Rushing - 99 for 615 yds, 6.2 ypc, 9 TD's, 5 fumbles, 1 lost poss fumble.


Tebow:
207 Passes, 4 Ints -- 1 Int per 51.8 passes.
One Lost Possession Fumble (1 - LPF) per 99 runs.
Only One Turnover per 61.2 NFL Snaps. <------<<<

Keys to winning in the NFL:
1) run the ball
2) stop the run
3) DONT TURN THE BALL OVER!!!

[Q]Bill Cowher mentioned having an Orton or Quinn package -

Perseason PER in the 'Fair' QB Competition: Tebow 108 - Orton 104 - Quinn 69 (only idiots ignore the facts/stats)

PS

Tebow averaged 27 pass attempts per game in a 'normal' offense before Elway/Fox arrived.
Tebow is doing well 'in spite of Elway/Fox,,, not because of anything that they have helped him with.

Tebow is 4-1 in spite of Elway/Fox trading away the Broncos Top 2 WR's from 2010.
One was the Broncos only 2010 Pro Bowler, and the other is the Skins leading 2011 receiver.
Do that to any other NFL QB and watch what happens to their passing game. :drown:

The Broncos are winning now because of the Tebow/[B]TEAM combination, not because Fox is suddenly some kind of coaching genius.
The ONLY difference between a 1-4 Fox team, and a 4-1 Fox team,,,, IS TEBOW as the starter!
And Tim's still doing it without Lloyd & Gaffney.

Fox has done nothing imo to turn the team around.
I'll give McCoy some credit for being open to Tebow's suggestion that they include some 'other' plays (that work) ]
to the 'normal' Fox/McCoy offense.

As I've said before, I'd have hired Elway to QB my team back in the day in a NY second, but he's now proven to be to
dumb to ever be allowed to marry my daughter... :wiggle:

I bet you have a higher ratio of time spent typing your post to the number of people that actually bother to read it, than any other person on this forum.

Shotgun Willie
11-21-2011, 11:07 AM
There's no such thing as emergency #3 anymore, and Elway stated out loud, on national TV that Quinn was next up on Thursday.

I'm not disputing what was said this past week. What I'm disputing is the "3 weeks ago" post that jhns made. The one from October. The one that was made where supposedly they said the same thing and then declared him inactive immediately afterwards. They supposedly said he'd be next in line, but then he was in street clothes that weekend.

jhns
11-21-2011, 11:08 AM
in bold

Right. We should say Tebow can't convert them and not give him a chance to prove them wrong. Sounds fair to me!

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:08 AM
so there is not one scenario other than injury that Tebow should be replaced in a game? Not one at the moment.


He can go 2-10 and we're down by 20 with o 3rd downs converted and our running game getting stuffed and you wouldn't even consider making a change to Orton, quinn, or pull elway's ass down outta the owner's box?Would not even consider it. Now, if he was 1-4 or say 5-16 over the next 21 games, I certainly would consider it. But it would be utterly moronic to substitute a proven loser for a proven winner.

I get that some people are dense, and Tebow haters, but really, have we gotten to this level of stupid?

jhns
11-21-2011, 11:12 AM
And yet Orton was listed as the #2 in the game day rosters and Quinn was still declared INACTIVE (not even available in emergency) during games AFTER that quote. What does that tell you?

Mostly that you aren't enough of a fan to keep up with current events.

So, what was your other account?

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:15 AM
I'm not disputing what was said this past week. What I'm disputing is the "3 weeks ago" post that jhns made. The one from October. The one that was made where supposedly they said the same thing and then declared him inactive immediately afterwards. They supposedly said he'd be next in line, but then he was in street clothes that weekend.

What I'm disputing is the moronic idea to give Orton or Quinn a couple of series.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 11:15 AM
I bet you have a higher ratio of time spent typing your post to the number of people that actually bother to read it, than any other person on this forum.

You do realize he has a cut n paste ability and uses it frequently? I wonder who many, like me, stuck him on ignore because he is like a spammer.

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 11:16 AM
if the broncos get down by two or more scores, I can see them throwing in Quinn

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 11:20 AM
And you know for a fact that if Orton looked good on a "few drives" that he'd get the starting gig back?

And wouldn't we have to see how we eventually lost this fantasy game you're talking about? What if we lost it on Bailey getting burned...or someone missing a tackle...or a McGahee fumble...or one of those numerous dropped passes that mysteriously started happening around game 6...or what if it was a Tebow pick six?

I'm sure in your mind the only cause of every loss has something to do with Orton, but really? And if Orton executes a "perfect" (your words not mine) 80 yard TD drive, why wouldn't he deserve a chance to see if he can do it again?

Isn't that how Tebow won the job in the first place? Orton playing like crap and Tebow coming in off bench and playing better? so why shouldn't it be the same standard for Tebow? If he plays like crap, why can't he be replaced as well?

Wrong, Orton lost his job because he is a loser. Tebow is a winner. Apples and oranges.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 11:21 AM
Not one at the moment.


Would not even consider it. Now, if he was 1-4 or say 5-16 over the next 21 games, I certainly would consider it. But it would be utterly moronic to substitute a proven loser for a proven winner.

I get that some people are dense, and Tebow haters, but really, have we gotten to this level of stupid?

good qbs have been pulled out of games and put back in for starting the very next week. It happens to 10 year vets so get off the high and mighty for a QB that has been around for only 1.5 years and has started a handful of games. Are you trying to prove a point or win a game when we are now in the playoff hunt? Good grief. I get that you are dense, and are Orton hater, but really, have we gotten to this level of stupid?

KO5K
11-21-2011, 11:23 AM
good qbs have been pulled out of games and put back in for starting the very next week. It happens to 10 year vets so get off the high and mighty for a QB that has been around for only 1.5 years and has started a handful of games.

Give five examples.

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 11:24 AM
if the broncos get down by two or more scores, I can see them throwing in Quinn

Yeah, because Tebow has never shown the ability to comeback from 2 or more scores. The Houston, Miami, Oakland games never happened in this fantasyland.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:25 AM
if the broncos get down by two or more scores, I can see them throwing in Quinn

Good idea. We've been down by two or more scores in 3 of Tebow's 5 wins, but I'm sure Quinn and Orton would give us a better chance in that scenario. :welcome:

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 11:26 AM
Why do people insist on posting in this forum when they don't know what the hell they are talking about?

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 11:27 AM
Give five examples.

Ive been watching football for 35 years. I bet Elway was pulled out of games 5 times in his career and many in his first season. Tebow is in his 2nd season and about 7 starting. In fact, wasnt it the Buffalo 1991 AFC Championship game that Elway got pulled and Kubiak came in to almost lead us to a win? I believe that was Kubes last game too. I can't believe just with current star QBs, you think Mannings, Brady or any star QB hasnt been pulled when struggling in a game.

edog24
11-21-2011, 11:28 AM
Why do people insist on posting in this forum when they don't know what the hell they are talking about?

Because they are experts.

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 11:28 AM
Ive been watching football for 35 years. I bet Elway was pulled out of games 5 times in his career and many in his first season. Tebow is in his 2nd season and about 7 starting. In fact, wasnt it the Buffalo 1991 game that Elway got pulled and Kubiak came in to almost lead us to a win? I believe that was Kubes last game too. I can't believe just with current star QBs, you think Mannings, Brady or any star QB hasnt been pulled when struggling in a game.

Elway was injured. You think Elway would get pulled from an AFCCG? LOL

razorwire77
11-21-2011, 11:29 AM
At this point, you gotta go all in for Tebow for the rest of the year. Regardless of his passing deficiencies in the pocket, his threat of making plays with his feet has contributed greatly to opening up the running game. You keep the 10-15 scripted spread option plays, and force NFL defensive coordinators to prove they scheme to shut it down completely. You keep attacking the one-on-one outside coverages when teams load up the box. Thomas had a huge 28-yard catch last Thursday. I'd really like to see more hard bootlegs and waggles where you get Tim rolling and throwing on the run. The last thing this team needs is to mess with the X factor that has allowed it to be successful.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:29 AM
good qbs have been pulled out of games and put back in for starting the very next week. It happens to 10 year vets so get off the high and mighty for a QB that has been around for only 1.5 years and has started a handful of games. Are you trying to prove a point or win a game when we are now in the playoff hunt? Good grief. I get that you are dense, and are Orton hater, but really, have we gotten to this level of stupid?

The point is proven. We're 4-1 with Tebow playing the entire game.

You're advocating ditching a setup that is 4-1 in favor of something that had this franchise at it's lowest point EVER, and you're trying to talk about stupidity levels? Really?

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 11:31 AM
Good idea. We've been down by two or more scores in 3 of Tebow's 5 wins, but I'm sure Quinn and Orton would give us a better chance in that scenario. :welcome:

I'm thinking of a repeat of the Lions game.

2KBack
11-21-2011, 11:31 AM
4-1 is awesome...I am super excited about it.

That said....how many QB's lose if their defense only gives up 15 points a game (like Denver's D has in the 4 wins)?

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 11:31 AM
Don't worry Dedhed. He thinks Elway got pulled from an AFCCG because of performance. And people like us are the stupid ones.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 11:32 AM
I bet you have a higher ratio of time spent typing your post to the number of people that actually bother to read it, than any other person on this forum.

Fair enough, maybe many here could benefit from Evelyn Woods training, if they ever get off the short bus that is.... :wiggle:

I just wonder what the ratio of your total posts:welcome:, to your number of posts with any real substance is, (not).

I'll leave you with a little Ron White quote:
Ignorance can be cured with information, but STU-PID is Fo-Ev-Err! :nutkick

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 11:32 AM
4-1 is awesome...I am super excited about it.

That said....how many QB's lose if their defense only gives up 15 points a game (like Denver's D has in the 4 wins)?

17-14 against the Titans. His name is Kyle Orton.

vonqkilla
11-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Elway is gonna run Tebow outta here if he doesnt start completing passes.

Look what OU does inside the 10.

Get ready for that next year?

Jkin

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:33 AM
I guess losing by a ton is "stay on course" mentality. It isnt dumb. We are now in a position to win our division
And how did we get there?

and watching an enept offense or enept offensive game planning by McCoy can't be tolerated.Can you enlighten us on the meaning of "enept"?

Maybe they feel comfortable with the plays for Orton than Tebow. I would rather have Tebow figure out the accuracy and have him play the whole game. Good teams offensively are not going to give us the chance to win with 5 minutes left to play.Umm..this is pretty much unintelligible, just so you know. For anyone who speaks English, that is.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:36 AM
I'm thinking of a repeat of the Lions game.
Yeah, ditching Tebow after the Lions game would have been a good plan. I we'd be better than 3-0 with someone else getting some snaps at QB.

edog24
11-21-2011, 11:36 AM
4-1 is awesome...I am super excited about it.

That said....how many QB's lose if their defense only gives up 15 points a game (like Denver's D has in the 4 wins)?

Most gunslinger type qbs would, because they are going to throw more picks resulting in shifts of momentum and giving opposing teams good field position.

What's lost in all this bullcrap about Tebow's accuracy is that he isn't throwing picks. That helps the defense. Fox and company play very conservative with Tebow, it's putting the entire team in a better position to win.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:38 AM
That said....how many QB's lose if their defense only gives up 15 points a game (like Denver's D has in the 4 wins)?

Kyle Orton does. Are you imagining that the defenses new found success has nothing to do with the offense that Tebow is running?

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 11:39 AM
Yeah, ditching Tebow after the Lions game would have been a good plan. I we'd be better than 3-0 with someone else getting some snaps at QB.

thats not what I was advocating. I'm talking about future games.

DarkHorse30
11-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Honest question: has anyone other than baja ever read an entire Alpha post?

I read 'em all. Seems like Alpha has opinions based on facts, rather than just pure conjecture....and the tried and true "well if Colin Cowherd says it, it must be right".

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 11:45 AM
Ive been watching football for 35 years. I bet Elway was pulled out of games 5 times in his career and many
in his first season. Tebow is in his 2nd season and about 7 starting. In fact, wasnt it the Buffalo 1991 AFC Championship
game that Elway got pulled and Kubiak came in to almost lead us to a win? I believe that was Kubes last game too.
I can't believe just with current star QBs, you think Mannings, Brady or any star QB hasnt been pulled when struggling in a game.

Peyton Manning was told that no matter what his rookie season W/L total was, that it was his team and that
they would build it around him and to his strengths.
So he went 3-13 starting every game AND he broke and set a new NFL Rookie QB Record for Interceptions.

PM entered the NFL with a Golden Football up his butt, not a silver spoon in his mouth.

While Tebow has had his head crapped on for 2 season by the incompetence of the Broncos staff and coaches. :welcome:

errand
11-21-2011, 11:46 AM
against the Jets our passing game wasn't very good, our 3rd down conversion rate wasn't very good, and the defense carried us.

Exactly...people are refusing to see that it's been more defensive improvement that's spurred us thru this current 4-1 streak....

in first 4 1/2 games we were scoring 20.2 ppg, and allowing 29.8 ppg....and while the offense turning ball over has some culpability in that the defense was struggling rushing the passer and against the run...

Exit light, enter night , and the offense is averaging 20.7 ppg...not that much of an improvement when you consider we've had a few ST and pick 6's helping that total out...however our D is surrendering a TD less per game, and has shown the ability to pressure the QB now that Doom is finally showing up. the secondary is starting to tighten their coverage cuz opposing QB's don't have 7 seconds to find the open man now.

Now I'm sure that the Tebowmaniacs will claim it's all due to him being the starter, but the fact is the two things they b****ed about Orton in 2010 was converting 3rd downs, and not scoring more points, (we're not doing either now with Tebow btw)....

while some of us (ahem) have always said unless the D gets their heads outta their asses, it wouldn't matter who our QB was....well the D has made greater strides since last season, and since the first 5 games as well...


We can even toss out their worse games during the Orton and Tebow eras of 2011...3.5 games under Orton minus the GB abortion, and they've allowed 24.3 ppg...meanwhile during Tebow's reign this season, minus abortion II that was Lions game, this defense is allowing 15.1 ppg...almost 10 per game improvement.

so like several on here have said....the key to the Broncos winning the game is and always was, improvement by the D.

Now of course we're gonna be inundated with numerous clowns (the usual suspects) that will claim that Tebow's amazing skills are why our D is suddenly playing better, and maybe even a few of them will try to say our competition sucked as well, but then that would mean they'd have to admit that Tebow can only beat inferior teams , so they have that to deal with.

So why are the Broncos riding a current 4-1 run? Is it because of our amazing offense that is averaging a whole half point more per game than the previous 1-4 offense? Or is it because our 4-1 Defense is averaging a whole TD less allowed per game than the 1-4 defense was?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm thinking of a repeat of the Lions game.

Cutler was beat ass hard by the Lions too...i dont remember anyone asking to put in Pat Ramsay

BoiseBluTurf
11-21-2011, 11:47 AM
I bet you have a higher ratio of time spent typing your post to the number of people that actually bother to read it, than any other person on this forum.


This... and i'm king luker! I see his name and scroll down... same thing with McG.

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 11:48 AM
an incompetent staff would be one that ignores the future of the broncos QB positon. Not even Mcdumbass was guilty of that (see Tim Tebow)

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:49 AM
What's lost in all this bullcrap about Tebow's accuracy is that he isn't throwing picks.I think that a portion of his accuracy issues are tied to trying to throw the ball perfectly to where the defender has no chnace for a play on the ball, which decreases the size of the window he's throwing into. He seems unwilling to make a mistake throwing the ball, and is too careful with where he puts the ball.

You can look at Cam Newton for the opposite extreme. Everyone is praising him for the numbers he's putting up, but he threw 4 picks yesterday alone. Tebow has 4 picks in his entire career thus far. Newton just puts the ball out there and gives WRs a chance to make a play. He also gives a lot of DBs a chance to make a play.

There have been very few chances for defenders to make a play on a Tebow pass, unfortunately that sometimes also means the WR doesn't have a chance either.


That helps the defense. Fox and company play very conservative with Tebow, it's putting the entire team in a better position to win.I think everything about Tebow helps the defense. Not only the game plan, but the mentality. I bet guys were going crazy watching Tebow drop o shoulder on Revis.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 11:51 AM
And how did we get there?

Can you enlighten us on the meaning of "enept"?

Umm..this is pretty much unintelligible, just so you know. For anyone who speaks English, that is.

You realize you are the problem not my post. Enept is not having Tebow throw on 3rd and 7 (or longer). Please tell me you don't agree with this. As for how we got there, are you going to live in the past or play for the present? I don't care if he won 4 games out of 5. If Tebow is struggling and we don't have time to run every down, we have to look at Orton or Quinn on plays that are obviously passing downs. If we are down by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and Tebow is 6 for 13 for 60 yards passing, I think it is a safe assumption that Fox will look to the other 2 quarterbacks for the last 10 minutes of play.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:51 AM
an incompetent staff would be one that ignores the future of the broncos QB positon. Not even Mcdumbass was guilty of that (see Tim Tebow)

And a really incompotent staff would ignore the present in favor of the future. When McDumbass addressed the QB position, there was no QBOTF on the roster.

There just might be now.

edog24
11-21-2011, 11:52 AM
Exactly...people are refusing to see that it's been more defensive improvement that's spurred us thru this current 4-1 streak....

in first 4 1/2 games we were scoring 20.2 ppg, and allowing 29.8 ppg....and while the offense turning ball over has some culpability in that the defense was struggling rushing the passer and against the run...

Exit light, enter night , and the offense is averaging 20.7 ppg...not that much of an improvement when you consider we've had a few ST and pick 6's helping that total out...however our D is surrendering a TD less per game, and has shown the ability to pressure the QB now that Doom is finally showing up. the secondary is starting to tighten their coverage cuz opposing QB's don't have 7 seconds to find the open man now.

Now I'm sure that the Tebowmaniacs will claim it's all due to him being the starter, but the fact is the two things they b****ed about Orton in 2010 was converting 3rd downs, and not scoring more points, (we're not doing either now with Tebow btw)....

while some of us (ahem) have always said unless the D gets their heads outta their asses, it wouldn't matter who our QB was....well the D has made greater strides since last season, and since the first 5 games as well...


We can even toss out their worse games during the Orton and Tebow eras of 2011...3.5 games under Orton minus the GB abortion, and they've allowed 24.3 ppg...meanwhile during Tebow's reign this season, minus abortion II that was Lions game, this defense is allowing 15.1 ppg...almost 10 per game improvement.

so like several on here have said....the key to the Broncos winning the game is and always was, improvement by the D.

Now of course we're gonna be inundated with numerous clowns (the usual suspects) that will claim that Tebow's amazing skills are why our D is suddenly playing better, and maybe even a few of them will try to say our competition sucked as well, but then that would mean they'd have to admit that Tebow can only beat inferior teams , so they have that to deal with.

So why are the Broncos riding a current 4-1 run? Is it because of our amazing offense that is averaging a whole half point more per game than the previous 1-4 offense? Or is it because our 4-1 Defense is averaging a whole TD less allowed per game than the 1-4 defense was?

I agree with you that the D has gotten better and that is playing a huge part in our wins, especially the pass rush.

I think Tebow is instrumental in the field position game. If we had a Rivers or Cutler throwing picks left and right, it would be hard for our D to keep the points down like they do.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 11:53 AM
I read 'em all. Seems like Alpha has opinions based on facts, rather than just pure conjecture....
and the tried and true "well if Colin Cowherd says it, it must be right".

The FEW, the PROUD, the Readers!!! :wiggle:

For the ones like you, and for the vast majority who read here but NEVER post, is why I post like I do. (so thank you)

PS

I never cared much for the 'yes he did, no he didn't, yes he did, no he didn't,' method of posting.
To those who do, have at it, I read them all because I need a laugh or two occasionally.... ;)

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 11:55 AM
You realize you are the problem not my post. Enept is not having Tebow throw on 3rd and 7 (or longer). Serenity now. Notice that when you type "enept" there is a red line under it indicating that it's not a word!

Please tell me you don't agree with this. So instead of having Tebow pass, we should bring in Orton? I bet defenses will bite hard on play action.

As for how we got there, are you going to live in the past or play for the present? I don't care if he won 4 games out of 5. If Tebow is struggling and we don't have time to run every down, we have to look at Orton or Quinn on plays that are obviously passing downs. If we are down by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and Tebow is 6 for 13 for 60 yards passing, I think it is a safe assumption that Fox will look to the other 2 quarterbacks for the last 10 minutes of play.There are not words to describe how stupid that would be. However "Enept" comes to mind.

errand
11-21-2011, 11:55 AM
Cowher isnt a coach because he chooses not to be. You act like he got fired from his job and nobody has shown interest in hiring him. The exact opposite is true on both counts.


Well you obviously haven't heard the news about the latest research....

Scientists have discovered that uttering any criticism of Tebow and his abilities regardless of your personal opinion of the lad are definite signs of mental deficiency and ability to see things logically, and leads those that do to be called stupid and retarded.

don't believe me? Criticize Tim Tebow...and see how many times you're called a derogatory name that generally questions your mental capacity to know anything.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 11:57 AM
errand, you are just a "McFan"!

OrangeSe7en
11-21-2011, 11:59 AM
If Elway drafts someone like Barkley while shipping off Tebow, and Barkley ends up not being THAT good, he better be ready to have the fanbase turn against him. I hope he's ready for that kind of rude awakening. He really better think this through.

There are conventional QBs who throw a pretty ball that fail in the NFL all the time.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 12:00 PM
Frankly, I'm glad Elway is focusing on the team, what it needs and where we'll go moving forward rather than public relations or worrying about the overly-sensitive nancies. "WAH! He needs to say THIS instead of THAT, because THIS would unwad my panties." Give me a break.

EVERYTHING is being evaluated. This isn't a one-man team, it never has been.

Yup.

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 12:00 PM
4-1 is awesome...I am super excited about it.

That said....how many QB's lose if their defense only gives up 15 points a game (like Denver's D has in the 4 wins)?

You ever stop and think why they D is only giving up 15 points a game now ?? Tebow gives them hope and they now have a leader on the field.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 12:01 PM
Well you obviously haven't heard the news about the latest research....

Scientists have discovered that uttering any criticism of Tebow and his abilities regardless of your personal opinion of the lad are definite signs of mental deficiency and ability to see things logically, and leads those that do to be called stupid and retarded.

don't believe me? Criticize Tim Tebow...and see how many times you're called a derogatory name that generally questions your mental capacity to know anything.

What you don't get is the difference between criticizing his weaknesses, of which there are many, and utterly refusing to give him credit for overcoming those weaknesses to win games.

He's 4-1 as a starter, but you want to say that it's despite Tebow not because of him. Yet when we were losing games with Orton you were against Tebow because we were losing because of the other 52 guys and not the QB.

And that's what you call logic. It's laughable.

DarkHorse30
11-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Peyton Manning was told that no matter what his rookie season W/L total was, that it was his team and that
they would build it around him and to his strengths.
So he went 3-13 starting every game AND he broke and set a new NFL Rookie QB Record for Interceptions.

PM entered the NFL with a Golden Football up his butt, not a silver spoon in his mouth.

While Tebow has had his head crapped on for 2 season by the incompetence of the Broncos staff and coaches. :welcome:

Those that KNOW (like Mark Shlereth and all of the other talking heads) keep saying that what Tebow is doing can't be done....and the qualifer word is "long term". That qualifer has been changing since Tebow started. It will continue to morph, no matter what the young man does, or how many games he wins.

Meanwhile, THE TEAM is behind their young QB 110%, we aren't turning the ball over and the players manning the trenches on both sides of the ball are improving demonstrably.

......but we don't have a "good, long term" QB. Well who does? And none of the "long termers" were immediately successful, but they were given LOADS of rope to hang themselves with. Not our guy, though. Why? Good question.

edog24
11-21-2011, 12:07 PM
Those that KNOW (like Mark Shlereth and all of the other talking heads) keep saying that what Tebow is doing can't be done....and the qualifer word is "long term". That qualifer has been changing since Tebow started. It will continue to morph, no matter what the young man does, or how many games he wins.

Meanwhile, THE TEAM is behind their young QB 110%, we aren't turning the ball over and the players manning the trenches on both sides of the ball are improving demonstrably.

......but we don't have a "good, long term" QB. Well who does? And none of the "long termers" were immediately successful, but they were given LOADS of rope to hang themselves with. Not our guy, though. Why? Good question.

This, especially the last paragraph.

errand
11-21-2011, 12:08 PM
My biggest problem with this is how can you be so hard on Timmy when he has gotten us back up to 500 and given us a chance at the playoffs?

Even if he is not the best person for the job he elevates everyone around him. Our team is playing better football as a whole then they have in the last decade.
.

See this is the problem...just as it wasn't all Orton's fault we were losing games, it isn't all because of Tebow that we're winning.

Did you know our defense is allowing fewer yards and points the last 5 1/2 games than they allowed the first 4 1/2? not saying that Tebow hasn't helped us win those 4 games, but why does he get the credit for the 4 wins, but nobody wants to say **** about the huge 45-10 loss to lions?

Bottom line is if you toss out the 49 GB hung on us (during 1-4 start), and the 45 lions hung on us (the 1 in our current 4-1 run) this defense is surrendering almost a TD and FG less per game (24.3 - 15.1)

now as to why they're playing better? I've got my opinions as to why...others have theirs...but if you come in nhere claiming it's the "Tebow Effect", then you're just a transparent nuthugger

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 12:09 PM
You realize you are the problem not my post. Enept is not having Tebow throw on 3rd and 7
(or longer). Please tell me you don't agree with this. As for how we got there, are you going to live in the past or play
for the present? I don't care if he won 4 games out of 5. If Tebow is struggling and we don't have time to run every
down, we have to look at Orton or Quinn on plays that are obviously passing downs. If we are down by 3 scores in the 4th
quarter and Tebow is 6 for 13 for 60 yards passing, I think it is a safe assumption that Fox will look to the other 2
quarterbacks for the last 10 minutes of play.

Ever consider these two important factors to Tim's passing numbers?

1) The moronic Fox game planning that got J.Clausen 3 TD's to 9 Ints and Genius Fox FIRED by the Panthers?

2) The fact that Elway/Fox traded away the Broncos BEST 2 WR's before even letting Tebow start a 2011 game?

For Fox/Elway to make Tim their scapegoat for their own incompetence is just chitty and cowardly on their part, imo. :flush:

oubronco
11-21-2011, 12:13 PM
You ever stop and think why they D is only giving up 15 points a game now ?? Tebow gives them hope and they now have a leader on the field.

Or they could be settling into Allens scheme and starting to play as a unit

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 12:14 PM
Or they could be settling into Allens scheme and starting to play as a unit

I think its a tad ignorant to think these two things are completely indepedent events.

errand
11-21-2011, 12:16 PM
A chance to see if he could do it again? Was two and a half years not enough time?

OK fair enough...so i guess Tebow's regressed as a QB then, because he threw the ball better last year during his 3 starts than he has this year. so you wanna go down this road about what last year has to do with this year?


He's 4-1, dumbass.

that's great, but what does that have to do with answering the question that if he plays like crap why shouldn't he be replaced? Tebow's 4-1 now...but what if we lose our next 3-4 games and he's still completing less than 49% of his passes, and not coverting 3rd downs and we lose the ground we gained in division? He's above being replaced?


in bold

oubronco
11-21-2011, 12:16 PM
Peyton Manning was told that no matter what his rookie season W/L total was, that it was his team and that
they would build it around him and to his strengths.
So he went 3-13 starting every game AND he broke and set a new NFL Rookie QB Record for Interceptions.

PM entered the NFL with a Golden Football up his butt, not a silver spoon in his mouth.

While Tebow has had his head crapped on for 2 season by the incompetence of the Broncos staff and coaches. :welcome:

Tebow is nowhere near as good as Manning was and I don't care what stats you pull out of your ass

Rolandftw
11-21-2011, 12:20 PM
So, Elway was asked about a potential Orton package? And he said it is something they might consider this week?

And a certain section of our fanbase is having kittens about that?

edog24
11-21-2011, 12:23 PM
So, Elway was asked about a potential FAIL package? And he said it is something they might consider this week?

And a certain section of our fanbase is having kittens about that?

fixed it for you

TotallyScrewed
11-21-2011, 12:27 PM
That is what I was going to say.. Elway was being honest about 3rd down conversions and how you can't win Championships unless you can 'consistently' convert 3rd downs.

What is this 3rd down inconsistency of which you speak?

1st and 10 at DEN 5 Direction Change. (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass short right to E.Royal pushed ob at DEN 13 for 8 yards (D.Revis).
2nd and 2 at DEN 13 T.Tebow right tackle to DEN 28 for 15 yards (E.Smith).
1st and 10 at DEN 28 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass short left to D.Thomas pushed ob at DEN 37 for 9 yards (A.Cromartie).
2nd and 1 at DEN 37 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep left to D.Thomas.
3rd and 1 at DEN 37 (Shotgun) T.Tebow right guard to DEN 44 for 7 yards (D.Revis; E.Smith).
1st and 10 at DEN 44 (Shotgun) T.Tebow scrambles right end to NYJ 47 for 9 yards (M.Dixon).
2nd and 1 at NYJ 47 (Shotgun) T.Tebow up the middle to NYJ 44 for 3 yards (J.Mauga).
1st and 10 at NYJ 44 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete short left to D.Thomas.
2nd and 10 at NYJ 44 (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass deep left to D.Rosario to NYJ 26 for 18 yards (E.Smith).
1st and 10 at NYJ 26 L.Ball up the middle to NYJ 23 for 3 yards (D.Harris).
2nd and 7 at NYJ 23 (Shotgun) T.Tebow up the middle to NYJ 20 for 3 yards (S.Pouha).
3rd and 4 at NYJ 20 (Shotgun) T.Tebow left end for 20 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 13 16
M.Prater extra point is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-B.Colquitt. 13 17
M.Prater kicks 74 yards from DEN 35 to NYJ -9. A.Cromartie to NYJ 14 for 23 yards (N.Irving).
DRIVE TOTALS: NYJ 13, DEN 17, 12 plays, 95 yards, 4:56 elapsed

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Tebow is nowhere near as good as Manning was and I don't care what stats you pull out of your ass

Absolutely correct of you, and neither do most of the haters and/or the fact/stat ignorant.

I'm not making any attempt at changing the minds of your type, NONE what-so-ever.

I'm posting information for those with the ability and the desire to have it.
You are free to place me on ignore, joining with the other chronically ignorant drivelers posting here.

Just a note for many non-haters here.
Tebow was WAY better in SEC QB Career than P.Manning was, running or passing the ball.
Tebow was and is WAY better in the NFL than P.Manning was, up to this point in their early careers.
Long term QB Careers in the NFL is yet to be seen or compared.

You are still free to harbor any delusion that makes you happy, no skin off my nose..... :welcome:

frerottenextelway
11-21-2011, 12:28 PM
As the saying goes, if it's not broken, fix it.

oubronco
11-21-2011, 12:28 PM
I think its a tad ignorant to think these two things are completely indepedent events.

I know it's insane to think something team wise could happen and it not be all Tebow :welcome:

errand
11-21-2011, 12:33 PM
Give five examples.

John Elway was pulled in '91 AFC title game where his pick 6 essentially cost us the game (10-7) and replaced by Gary kubiak who led us on our solo Td drive and also had us near midfield until Sewell fumbled.

Johnny Unitas was pulled in Jets-Colts SB after being ineffective, replaced by Earl Morral

Craig Morton in SBXII was replaced by more mobile Norris Weese

Steve DeBerg was replaced by Elway in '83 wildcard game with Broncos getting pounded 31-7 by Seahawks.


There's 4 of the five just off the top of my head...even great QB's get replaced for being ineffective...doesn't happen all the time, but it DOES happen

errand
11-21-2011, 12:37 PM
What you don't get is the difference between criticizing his weaknesses, of which there are many, and utterly refusing to give him credit for overcoming those weaknesses to win games.

He's 4-1 as a starter, but you want to say that it's despite Tebow not because of him. Yet when we were losing games with Orton you were against Tebow because we were losing because of the other 52 guys and not the QB.

And that's what you call logic. It's laughable.

now you're just plain lying....

Dagmar
11-21-2011, 12:42 PM
I bet you have a higher ratio of time spent typing your post to the number of people that actually bother to read it, than any other person on this forum.

Without a doubt, I want him to get an avatar so it's even easier to skip.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 12:45 PM
And you know for a fact that if Orton looked good on a "few drives" that he'd get the starting gig back?

And wouldn't we have to see how we eventually lost this fantasy game you're talking about? What if we lost it on Bailey getting burned...or someone missing a tackle...or a McGahee fumble...or one of those numerous dropped passes that mysteriously started happening around game 6...or what if it was a Tebow pick six?

I'm sure in your mind the only cause of every loss has something to do with Orton, but really? And if Orton executes a "perfect" (your words not mine) 80 yard TD drive, why wouldn't he deserve a chance to see if he can do it again?

Isn't that how Tebow won the job in the first place? Orton playing like crap and Tebow coming in off bench and playing better? so why shouldn't it be the same standard for Tebow? If he plays like crap, why can't he be replaced as well?

Orton 8 year vet...Tebow 8 game vet! Orton should not be making the same mistakes as Tebow but he does, actually worse mistakes so far. Orton has no potential to get better, while Tebow's potential is much higher. I didn't think this was that complicated.

Play2win
11-21-2011, 12:54 PM
I read 'em all. Seems like Alpha has opinions based on facts, rather than just pure conjecture....and the tried and true "well if Colin Cowherd says it, it must be right".

He also has 7th grade english skills. God, I love the interwebz... ROFL!

RunSilentRunDeep
11-21-2011, 12:55 PM
John Elway was pulled in '91 AFC title game where his pick 6 essentially cost us the game (10-7) and replaced by Gary kubiak who led us on our solo Td drive and also had us near midfield until Sewell fumbled.

Johnny Unitas was pulled in Jets-Colts SB after being ineffective, replaced by Earl Morral

Craig Morton in SBXII was replaced by more mobile Norris Weese

Steve DeBerg was replaced by Elway in '83 wildcard game with Broncos getting pounded 31-7 by Seahawks.


There's 4 of the five just off the top of my head...even great QB's get replaced for being ineffective...doesn't happen all the time, but it DOES happen

Elway wasn't pulled against the Bills, he was injured.

Maybe part of the reason the defense is allowing fewer points in Tebow's four wins is that the quarterback hasn't committed a single turnover in those games. Willis McGahee has been the only player to give opponents a short field.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 12:56 PM
I know it's insane to think something team wise could happen and it not be all Tebow :welcome:

hmmm...the team was 1-4. They make one change and suddenly the outlook of the season completely changes and the team is 4-1. Clearly, its not ALL Tebow, but he certainly was the catalyst.

I dont even know how this is an argument

Play2win
11-21-2011, 12:56 PM
Or they could be settling into Allens scheme and starting to play as a unit

There is something to be said, that the ball control offense keeps the Defense fresh, and in attack mode.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Elway says the passing game is not good enough to win Championships
"Ahhh no" was his answer to if he was closer to a decision. Elway made it clear you cannot win Championships going 3 and out seven times.

I would have hoped he was a little more positive about Tim but he was pretty critical of the offense and by extentsion Tebow when Elway says it's the QB primary job to convert 3rd downs

At some point someone needs to start talking about us leading the NFL in punting.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 12:57 PM
There is something to be said, that the ball control offense keeps the Defense fresh, and in attack mode.

actually the stats dont really support much of a difference here, but clearly there is some effect. Probably because the offense hasn't turned the ball over, less about time of possession.

CEH
11-21-2011, 12:58 PM
At some point someone needs to start talking about us leading the NFL in punting.

I agree. Colquitt is the bomb

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 12:58 PM
Most gunslinger type qbs would, because they are going to throw more picks resulting in shifts of momentum and giving opposing teams good field position.

What's lost in all this bullcrap about Tebow's accuracy is that he isn't throwing picks. That helps the defense. Fox and company play very conservative with Tebow, it's putting the entire team in a better position to win.

I can only remember 1 fumble and 1 Int in Tebow's 5.5 games this year. Orton has that many or more turnovers almost every game. I can't believe we're even having the conversation of putting him back in at any point in any game, ever!

BabyTO
11-21-2011, 12:59 PM
i thought at least this time ONE week would pass without this retarded mother****er not make a stupid comment, but he doesn't fail to deliver. this asswipe should have been fired about 20 times already. hes more busy with trying to make sure tebow doesnt steal his thunder

Play2win
11-21-2011, 12:59 PM
As far as the original quote, there is nothing wrong with keeping the pressure on-- or even applying more pressure, to a pressure position to get better results.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 12:59 PM
I can only remember 1 fumble and 1 Int in Tebow's 5.5 games this year. Orton has that many or more turnovers almost every game. I can't believe we're even having the conversation of putting him back in at any point in any game, ever!

I get the concept, i just dont understand how it would be implemented. What...you think defenses will still play the option when Orton is back there? Makes no sense.

Stay the Timmy course.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 01:00 PM
Not to mention, our offense was **** with Orton. The highest scoring game we've had, against Oakland, was with Tim at the helm.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 01:00 PM
I think he is waiting until Tim has played 11 games to determine his status.

Probably so. I think they'll open up the passing attack a little more each week. In any case, drafting a QB high, whatever, Tebow will open TC next season as #1 on the depth chart.

BroncoBen
11-21-2011, 01:01 PM
If Elway drafts someone like Barkley while shipping off Tebow, and Barkley ends up not being THAT good, he better be ready to have the fanbase turn against him. I hope he's ready for that kind of rude awakening. He really better think this through.

There are conventional QBs who throw a pretty ball that fail in the NFL all the time.

Sounds like this this more a statement about Tebow fans then Bronco fans ?

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 01:01 PM
Without a doubt, I want him to get an avatar so it's even easier to skip.

NEWS FLASH: I G-a-S what you want.

Why, doesn't the 'ignore' function for you, or are you just to dumb/lazy to use it?

JFYI, I don't ignore or skip posts like yours, I instead Ha! at them and you.

PS

Why would you bother to tell me this anyway, when you could just put me on ignore and move along?
Peer Pressure, especially from those I have ZERO respect for, is utterly useless,
just in case you're to dumb to realize that either... :welcome:

Play2win
11-21-2011, 01:01 PM
actually the stats dont really support much of a difference here, but clearly there is some effect. Probably because the offense hasn't turned the ball over, less about time of possession.

But, do contrast that with Orton (or similar QBs/Offensive schemes), and it seemed like the defense was on the field all day long.

Play2win
11-21-2011, 01:03 PM
I agree. Colquitt is the bomb

LOL When it comes to punting, Colquitt is the bomb.

Play2win
11-21-2011, 01:05 PM
Sounds like this this more a statement about Tebow fans then Bronco fans ?

From the looks of it, Barkley is going to be one hell of a NFL QB.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 01:05 PM
But, do contrast that with Orton (or similar QBs/Offensive schemes), and it seemed like the defense was on the field all day long.

Oh it seems it, but its actually not true.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 01:06 PM
But if Orton goes in throws a few nice passes and gets to the redzone, how can you then pull the guy?

Seriously, I don't quite understand how EFX can actually be considering this.

I doubt they are.

BoiseBluTurf
11-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Defense might just be playing better because they are comfertable in new system and next to all then new personal! Shortoff season... new d cord... new players... new system... hmmm might take a few weeks for them to be in the right place a higher number of plays... maybe? Combine that with the fact the offense is playing more ball control and our special teams are winning battle of field position most games and you get a much improved Defense.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 01:09 PM
What is this 3rd down inconsistency of which you speak?

3/13 on 3rd down and 0/1 on 4th down. Thankfully our D held the NYJ to 3/14 and 1/1.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 01:09 PM
He also has 7th grade english skills. God, I love the interwebz... ROFL!

WoW! I finally found this boards excuse for the Grammar Police.
Every circle needs it's jerk I guess. :welcome:

On a sports message board, I tend to go with the anthropoligist attitude on communication.

That being; IF you understood the ideas being presented, then the communication was successful.

If I ever decide to become a professional writer, then I'll get a good editor to fix up the grammar mistakes and/or mispellings.

PS
Some morons will never understand a real idea, they are to caught up in their own delusions to even entertain one.... ;)
(deciding who the twits are,,,, I'll leave up to all those reading the posts)

BabyTO
11-21-2011, 01:11 PM
"I think obviously he's making progress week in and week out. When you look at our third down numbers, those have to improve. I mean, that's the bottom line," Elway said. "We can't go 3-for-13 and win a world championship. Those are the type of things we have to keep improving."
the only (OTHER) QB that MIGHT be able to take this team to the superbowl is tom brady. thats who he's comparing tebow with now. we went from the worst team that was competing for that #1 pick to somebody that COULD make it to the superbowl. because of tebow. with orton or any other QB in there we would get shredded. and you're gonna whine about some 3rd down bull**** stat that you pulled out of your ass? how the hell youre gonna win a superbowl with decker as your go to guy. and did this idiot forget that tebow does most damage with his legs? why not take those long runs into account on 3rd down? it doesnt matter if he throws a 10yd pass on 3rd and 9 or if he runs for 10 yards, he gets the 1st down regardless. how does a man that dumb even get a job? didnt they realize how dumb he was when they were interviewing him?

oubronco
11-21-2011, 01:16 PM
There is something to be said, that the ball control offense keeps the Defense fresh, and in attack mode.

How many three and outs were there in the last game is that what you call keeping the defense fresh?

TotallyScrewed
11-21-2011, 01:17 PM
Exactly...people are refusing to see that it's been more defensive improvement that's spurred us thru this current 4-1 streak....

blah, blah...however our D is surrendering a TD less per game, and has shown the ability to pressure the QB now that Doom is finally showing up. the secondary is starting to tighten their coverage cuz opposing QB's don't have 7 seconds to find the open man now....

First off, Von Miller has been the impact player, not Doom but his numbers don't bear the same point you're reaching for...He had 4 sacks during the 1-4 period and 5.5 sacks during the 4-1 period.


So why are the Broncos riding a current 4-1 run? Is it because of our amazing offense that is averaging a whole half point more per game than the previous 1-4 offense? Or is it because our 4-1 Defense is averaging a whole TD less allowed per game than the 1-4 defense was?

What about the turnovers or the crap field position that the Orton lead Broncos left for the defense to protect? What has clearly happened is that the current offense and special teams is not putting the defense in bad positions and they are not getting three and out within 2:00 minutes (two-three incomplete passes), thus allowing the defense to rest.

I'm not saying anything new but apparently it bears repeating.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 01:18 PM
John Elway was pulled in '91 AFC title game where his pick 6 essentially cost us the game (10-7) and replaced by Gary kubiak who led us on our solo Td drive and also had us near midfield until Sewell fumbled.

Johnny Unitas was pulled in Jets-Colts SB after being ineffective, replaced by Earl Morral

Craig Morton in SBXII was replaced by more mobile Norris Weese

Steve DeBerg was replaced by Elway in '83 wildcard game with Broncos getting pounded 31-7 by Seahawks.


There's 4 of the five just off the top of my head...even great QB's get replaced for being ineffective...doesn't happen all the time, but it DOES happen

In the history of the NFL you can come up with 4?? LOL

oubronco
11-21-2011, 01:19 PM
3/13 on 3rd down and 0/1 on 4th down. Thankfully our D held the NYJ to 3/14 and 1/1.

It was all Tebow

TonyR
11-21-2011, 01:20 PM
...and you're gonna whine about some 3rd down bull**** stat that you pulled out of your ass? ... ...it doesnt matter if he throws a 10yd pass on 3rd and 9 or if he runs for 10 yards, he gets the 1st down regardless.

The 3/13 is correct. We only got 11 first downs the whole game. The offense only scored 10 points. How is Elway wrong here? The offense got the job done on the last drive but needs to improve over all. Why is this so controversial? I'm sure Tebow and all the players on O would agree.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 01:20 PM
BabyTo just made my ignore list. How dumb are you to post everything about one subject and that is "How retarded is John Elway". Surprised you are a member since 2008. Must be a Raider fan troll though.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 01:22 PM
In the history of the NFL you can come up with 4?? LOL

How about hey dip****, He just came up with 4 in title games (or conference title games) KOK50 or whatever his name is said name 5 in the whole NFL....all games! LOL at you.

Popps
11-21-2011, 01:23 PM
C'mon y'all... it's pretty clear that Elway isn't going to tip his hand either way. It's also just too early.

I mean, are all of YOU sure about the QB situation for next year? It's been fun, but we don't know if the kid can throw with regularity. We've gotten some good bounces in these wins. Not taking a thing from Tebow's aura, but I don't know that we've seen enough to make a decision. If I'm in Elway's position, I SURELY haven't seen enough.

I'll say this though, if we draft a QB in the first this coming year... it's going to be bedlam like you've never seen. This past off-season and start of season will seem like a meditation retreat compared to the mayhem that will ensue if we bring in another QB.

Bahshay
11-21-2011, 01:24 PM
hmmm...the team was 1-4. They make one change and suddenly the outlook of the season completely changes and the team is 4-1. Clearly, its not ALL Tebow, but he certainly was the catalyst.

I dont even know how this is an argument

An easier stretch of the schedule has certainly helped the defense. The only good offense we have played since the bye week is the Lions, and they destroyed us. Each QB had a chance against the Raiders and they scored about the same points on us each time. I don't think the QB switch has had as big of an impact on the defense as playing the Dolphins, Jets, and Chiefs has.

We had one big offensive game with Tebow (Raiders). It is the only game that Tebow has lead us over 20 points. (Orton, as bad as he is, had us over that mark 3 out of his 4.5 games). Its exciting to be winning again, but I'm admittedly still skeptical. Our offense has been good 1-2 drives a game... thats not good enough. I think its fair to question how big of a role Tebow has really had in our win streak, considering how much of the credit he is getting.

oubronco
11-21-2011, 01:25 PM
C'mon y'all... it's pretty clear that Elway isn't going to tip his hand either way. It's also just too early.

I mean, are all of YOU sure about the QB situation for next year? It's been fun, but we don't know if the kid can throw with regularity. We've gotten some good bounces in these wins. Not taking a thing from Tebow's aura, but I don't know that we've seen enough to make a decision. If I'm in Elway's position, I SURELY haven't seen enough.

I'll say this though, if we draft a QB in the first this coming year... it's going to be bedlam like you've never seen. This past off-season and start of season will seem like a meditation retreat compared to the mayhem that will ensue if we bring in another QB.

And it's going to happen

Garcia Bronco
11-21-2011, 01:27 PM
I still don't understand why some of you get so wrapped up into who is playing for this team. Once free agency was put into place it no longer mattered to me. I don't give a **** who's on the team, I just want them to win. I don't care if it's Tim Tebow of John Elway...just win.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 01:29 PM
An easier stretch of the schedule has certainly helped the defense. The only good offense we have played since the bye week is the Lions, and they destroyed us. Each QB had a chance against the Raiders and they scored about the same points on us each time. I don't think the QB switch has had as big of an impact on the defense as playing the Dolphins, Jets, and Chiefs has.

We had one big offensive game with Tebow (Raiders). It is the only game that Tebow has lead us over 20 points. (Orton, as bad as he is, had us over that mark 3 out of his 4.5 games). Its exciting to be winning again, but I'm admittedly still skeptical. Our offense has been good 1-2 drives a game... thats not good enough. I think its fair to question how big of a role Tebow has really had in our win streak, considering how much of the credit he is getting.

Its fair to question it, but to dismiss it as independent events is silly. He has some kind of strange effect on the team that defies logic. But he's getting it done.

But Tim has, no doubt, been handcuffed in this offense. its hard to pick up 3rd and 6's when youre consistently running on 3rd down.

That said, Tim's throwing has regressed this year He's been woefully inaccurate, but he was clearly more accurate last year and was more accurate in college. so the ability is there, but im not sure whats goin on

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 01:29 PM
Take the stats out of it and look at it this way.


Orton in last year we sucked ass.

Enter Tebow and BAM we played like a real football team again.

This year we go back to Orton and Guess what, we sucked.

Put Tebow in and BAM we play like a real football team again.


I don't know what it is and I really don't care. It feels good to be winning and I just don't think you should mess with a good thing.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 01:31 PM
How about hey dip****, He just came up with 4 in title games (or conference title games) KOK50 or whatever his name is said name 5 in the whole NFL....all games! LOL at you.

My bad..it was like 5 pages ago. I was thinking more on the lines of the past 5-10 years max. The entire history of the NFL and only 4. Clearly, it doesn't happen often.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 01:32 PM
"I think obviously he's making progress week in and week out. When you look at our third down numbers, those have to improve.
I mean, that's the bottom line," Elway said. "We can't go 3-for-13 and win a world championship.
Those are the type of things we have to keep improving."


the only (OTHER) QB that MIGHT be able to take this team to the superbowl is tom brady. thats who he's comparing tebow with now.
we went from the worst team that was competing for that #1 pick to somebody that COULD make it to the superbowl.
because of tebow. with orton or any other QB in there we would get shredded. and you're gonna whine about some
3rd down bull**** stat that you pulled out of your ass? how the hell youre gonna win a superbowl with decker as your go
to guy. and did this idiot forget that tebow does most damage with his legs? why not take those long runs into account on
3rd down? it doesnt matter if he throws a 10yd pass on 3rd and 9 or if he runs for 10 yards, he gets the 1st down regardless.
how does a man that dumb even get a job? didnt they realize how dumb he was when they were interviewing him?

All Things Considered:

2010 Little use in the preseason.
2010 Zero 1st Team practice time until the Broncos were 3 - 10.
2010 Three cold end-of-season starts, 1-2 with an 82.4 PER and a 5.3 ypc rushing.
LOCK-OUT Off season.
2011 less than 1/3 of the preseason plays in the 'fair' QB Competition.
Still: Tebow 108 - Orton 104 - Quinn 69.
Throw out fair, we're going with 'Best Chance To Win' Orton.
Even though he had a lower winning % in 2010, and even though he had a lower preseason PER.
Zero 1st Team practice time until the Broncos were 1-4.
2011 5 cold middle-of-season starts, 4-1 with a 78.4 PER, 7 TD's to just 1 Int.

But hey, don't bother with those 'Pesky Stats/Facts' when you can depend on the Media Morons to think for you AND to
form your opinions/delusions for you.
Way to much effort for you to actually Think for Yourself......

Agamemnon
11-21-2011, 01:34 PM
I mean, are all of YOU sure about the QB situation for next year?

Yes I am. Players with Tebow's ability to will a team to win are as rare as diamonds. If nothing else that should buy him time to develop as a passer. The guy has had some incredible passes so far in his short career, he just needs to do it more consistently and eliminate the ducks.

Honestly I can't believe anyone doesn't at least want to see what he can do with a few more years of development at this point. Have you people completely missed the magic this kid has?

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 01:37 PM
Yes I am. Players with Tebow's ability to will a team to win are as rare as diamonds. If nothing else that should buy him time to develop as a passer. The guy has had some incredible passes so far in his short career, he just needs to do it more consistently and eliminate the ducks.

Honestly I can't believe anyone doesn't at least want to see what he can do with a few more years of development at this point. Have you people completely missed the magic this kid has?

Yes, Yes they have.

Garcia Bronco
11-21-2011, 01:38 PM
Is anyone really shocked to see a litany od former QB's and WR's say that a running offense can't work in the NFL?

**** those guys.

Keep getting smaller to defend the pass...we'll keep getting bigger to run you down.

OrangeSe7en
11-21-2011, 01:40 PM
Sounds like this this more a statement about Tebow fans then Bronco fans ?

It's not.

Agamemnon
11-21-2011, 01:41 PM
That said, Tim's throwing has regressed this year He's been woefully inaccurate, but he was clearly more accurate last year and was more accurate in college. so the ability is there, but im not sure whats goin on

Not enough throwing on 1st and 2nd down and not enough spread formations is what going on as far as I can tell. I don't know what the exact percentage is, but I would bet that 80% of Tebow's passes have come on 3rd down. That's the worst down to throw on for every QB, and that's all he's ever allowed to throw on, and only after letting his arm go cold after 10+ straight runs. Not saying he'd have incredible passing numbers otherwise, but with the way he's rarely allowed to pass and then mostly on 3rd and longs, it's really not that much of a mystery why he's struggled.

There are other factors I'm sure, but it's clearly not a coincidence that when he's allowed to throw more on 1st and 2nd and more out of the spread he's generally been worlds better.

edog24
11-21-2011, 01:42 PM
Is anyone really shocked to see a litany od former QB's and WR's say that a running offense can't work in the NFL?

**** those guys.

Keep getting smaller to defend the pass...we'll keep getting bigger to run you down.

Is Elway one of those former QB's?

errand
11-21-2011, 01:47 PM
[/B]

Wrong, Orton lost his job because he is a loser. Tebow is a winner. Apples and oranges.

Doesn't playing like crap go hand in hand with losing, as playing good goes hand in hand with winning?

Bahshay
11-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Its fair to question it, but to dismiss it as independent events is silly. He has some kind of strange effect on the team that defies logic. But he's getting it done.

But Tim has, no doubt, been handcuffed in this offense. its hard to pick up 3rd and 6's when youre consistently running on 3rd down.

That said, Tim's throwing has regressed this year He's been woefully inaccurate, but he was clearly more accurate last year and was more accurate in college. so the ability is there, but im not sure whats goin on

Yep, I'm all for keeping him in there even though he seems to struggle, because we keep winning anyway. He certainly has been handcuffed some, but he isn't exactly making the throws needed to bust out of the handcuffs either. I think the ability is there too, so I'm still hopeful that the passing comes around.

I just can't shake the feeling that we are looking at a Vince-Young-Rookie-Season effect where he was awful by every statistic except his W/L record. He was the savior that turned around the season. He came in and the team started pulling in rushing yards by the hundreds, partly because of Young's ability to run. Turns out the defense and Travis Henry (1200+ yards in 14 games that year I believe) were really the force behind that season, despite Young getting all the credit. He hasn't done much since.

Hopefully, the offense picks it up and shakes that feeling for me.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 01:49 PM
In the history of the NFL you can come up with 4?? LOL

And every one out of utter desperation in a playoff game no less. It also doesn't fit the original assertion that they then went back in the next week. Derp!

LetsGoBroncos
11-21-2011, 01:49 PM
The 3/13 is correct. We only got 11 first downs the whole game. The offense only scored 10 points. How is Elway wrong here? The offense got the job done on the last drive but needs to improve over all. Why is this so controversial? I'm sure Tebow and all the players on O would agree.

And I completely agree with you. The problem I have is that I am certain if Tebow is given the rest of this year, a full offseason, and the start of next year to improve as a passer he will.....especially if he is given the chance in games to improve.

BabyTO
11-21-2011, 01:50 PM
The 3/13 is correct. We only got 11 first downs the whole game. The offense only scored 10 points. How is Elway wrong here? The offense got the job done on the last drive but needs to improve over all. Why is this so controversial? I'm sure Tebow and all the players on O would agree.
its a dumb observation he made because like i said tebow makes a lot of plays with his feet. but elway doesnt mention those numbers of course. on top of that we dont have any good receivers on this team. you add in the fact that the playcalling for the most part has been absolutely horrible (totally opposite to what tebow does best) the fact that we have a young QB (basically a rookie) who's gonna struggle just like every other young 1st round QB (you think dalton and company convert every 3rd down?) and so on. its just stupid to look at the 3rd down stats and then put it all on tebow. and in case some people didnt even notice, we actually played the jets. every QB struggles against them. opposing QB's average a 0.0 QB rating when throwing the ball in revis' direction. and cromartie is pretty damn good too. their run defense is great. offense scored only 10 points? how many points did the running backs score? they didnt do ****. tebow had to do all by himself. 95yd drive in crunch time, cap it off with a TD, win the game. all that against arguably the best defense in the league. and here we have people complain about some bull**** 3rd down stat. people act like any QB can just come in and take this team to the superbowl. this offense is a piece of **** with a bunch of scrub receivers. we'd be competing for that #1 pick if it wasnt for tebow. and elway that toolbag is talking about how tebow doesn't guarantee us a superbowl win. WELL WHO DOES?! brady doesn't even. so what the hell is elway even talking about. how the **** did we go from competing for the #1 pick and not being able to win another game to suddenly expecting a superbowl win.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Doesn't playing like crap go hand in hand with losing, as playing good goes hand in hand with winning?

Haven't you heard. Wins don't matter anymore. Only completion % does. Get with the program.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 01:52 PM
C'mon y'all... it's pretty clear that Elway isn't going to tip his hand either way. It's also just too early.

(But it's never to early for the Haters and/or Doubters)

I mean, are all of YOU sure about the QB situation for next year? It's been fun, but we don't know if the kid can throw with regularity.


Yep, no Idea at all, except for this:
Broke and Set Florida HS Career TD Pass Record by throwing 98 TD's.
Broke and Set the SEC All Time Career PER at 170.79, 88 TD's to just 16 Ints.
Had the highest PER (82.4) of all 2010 Rookie QB's.
Had the highest TD/Int Ratio of all 2010 Rookie QB's.
Is Currently #2 in the NFL behind A.Rogers with a 7.0 to 1 TD/Int Ratio.

So I can certainly see how YOU are not knowing if that 6-3 240 Superman can throw the rock or not..... ROFL!

We've gotten some good bounces in these wins. Not taking a thing from Tebow's aura, but I don't know
that we've seen enough to make a decision. If I'm in Elway's position, I SURELY haven't seen enough.

Personally, I'm more in doubt about Elway or Fox being able to handle their jobs than I am about Tebow's long proven track record.

I'll say this though, if we draft a QB in the first this coming year... it's going to be bedlam like you've never seen.
This past off-season and start of season will seem like a meditation retreat compared to the mayhem that will ensue if we bring in
another QB.

If they fire Orton and Quinn, then take a QB in a later round to backup and/or compete with Tebow/Weber, I'm just fine with that.

However, I'd use a Top draft pick to get WR Justin Blackmon from OkSt.
Then the best OL/DL that I could get.
Then a strong/tough RB to take some of the running load off Tebow.
But that's just me.... ;)

errand
11-21-2011, 01:53 PM
In the history of the NFL you can come up with 4?? LOL

Oh, i'm sorry...I was just quoting off the top of my head in my lifetime...the clown asked someone else for 5...i spotted him 4. trust me dude, you don't want me to dig deep....you'll be embarrassed if you do.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 01:53 PM
...I would bet that 80% of Tebow's passes have come on 3rd down.

You'd lose that bet handily.

22/45 on 1st down (43%)
14/31 on 2nd down (29%)
11/26 on 3rd down (25%)
0/3 on 4th down (3%)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/13200/tim-tebow

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 01:53 PM
Not enough throwing on 1st and 2nd down and not enough spread formations is what going on as far as I can tell. I don't know what the exact percentage is, but I would bet that 80% of Tebow's passes have come on 3rd down. That's the worst down to throw on for every QB, and that's all he's ever allowed to throw on, and only after letting his arm go cold after 10+ straight runs. Not saying he'd have incredible passing numbers otherwise, but with the way he's rarely allowed to pass and then mostly on 3rd and longs, it's really not that much of a mystery why he's struggled.

There are other factors I'm sure, but it's clearly not a coincidence that when he's allowed to throw more on 1st and 2nd and more out of the spread he's generally been worlds better.
I'd love to see some analysis on what the offense has done in the spread formation.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 01:53 PM
Not enough throwing on 1st and 2nd down and not enough spread formations is what going on as far as I can tell. I don't know what the exact percentage is, but I would bet that 80% of Tebow's passes have come on 3rd down. That's the worst down to throw on for every QB, and that's all he's ever allowed to throw on, and only after letting his arm go cold after 10+ straight runs. Not saying he'd have incredible passing numbers otherwise, but with the way he's rarely allowed to pass and then mostly on 3rd and longs, it's really not that much of a mystery why he's struggled.

There are other factors I'm sure, but it's clearly not a coincidence that when he's allowed to throw more on 1st and 2nd and more out of the spread he's generally been worlds better.

I think the reason they've been taking this conservative approch is because it's been working. At some point, you'd think, they will open it up a bit more. They always wait until we're tied or down by a FG/TD to finally open it up on the last drive to tie it or win it. It's hard to say whether Tebow can complete a higher % of his passes calling a game so conservative and so predicable. Also, we need to remember that not every pass is going to be perfect. When the ball is hitting guys in the hands, they need to make a play!

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 01:54 PM
My biggest problem with this is how can you be so hard on Timmy when he has gotten us back up to 500 and given us a chance at the playoffs?

Even if he is not the best person for the job he elevates everyone around him. Our team is playing better football as a whole then they have in the last decade. I think it's pretty shoty of the front office not to at least give him a pat on the back. Little disappointed in that.

If Tebow wants to fill Elway's shoes he can't be a sissy that has to be coddled. Reeves didn't coddle Elway, in fact Reeves said what made Elway great was because Elway was so mentally tough.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 01:56 PM
Oh, i'm sorry...I was just quoting off the top of my head in my lifetime...the clown asked someone else for 5...i spotted him 4. trust me dude, you don't want me to dig deep....you'll be embarrassed if you do.

I'm sure it's happened more than 4. Hell, McNabb got yanked mid game in Philly a few years ago. You see young/vets get yanked all the time. It's not very often it happens when a team is in the middle of a nice winning streak though.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 01:59 PM
if the broncos get down by two or more scores, I can see them throwing in Quinn

I can't. That's when they'll open up the passing attack to see how Tebow responds.

errand
11-21-2011, 01:59 PM
Kyle Orton does. Are you imagining that the defenses new found success has nothing to do with the offense that Tebow is running?

...couldn't one also argue that Tebow's success this season has just as much to do with the defense?

I mean hell he played at midfield or better practically the entire Jets game AND they spotted him a TD to boot....

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 02:00 PM
Haven't you heard. Wins don't matter anymore. Only completion % does. Get with the program.

This ^ ROFL!

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 02:01 PM
hmmm...the team was 1-4. They make one change and suddenly the outlook of the season completely changes and the team is 4-1. Clearly, its not ALL Tebow, but he certainly was the catalyst.

I dont even know how this is an argument
Well, when giving Tebow credit for anything is an impossibility for you, you are forced to complicate something that is very simple.

CEH
11-21-2011, 02:05 PM
He used his legs to win the game but we have to get better in the passing game - Elway

Why would you give up on a guy who wins you games - Champ

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 02:07 PM
You realize you are the problem not my post. Enept is not having Tebow throw on 3rd and 7 (or longer). Please tell me you don't agree with this. As for how we got there, are you going to live in the past or play for the present? I don't care if he won 4 games out of 5. If Tebow is struggling and we don't have time to run every down, we have to look at Orton or Quinn on plays that are obviously passing downs. If we are down by 3 scores in the 4th quarter and Tebow is 6 for 13 for 60 yards passing, I think it is a safe assumption that Fox will look to the other 2 quarterbacks for the last 10 minutes of play.

I disagree. I think they're all in with Tebow come hell or high water.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 02:08 PM
...couldn't one also argue that Tebow's success this season has just as much to do with the defense?

I mean hell he played at midfield or better practically the entire Jets game AND they spotted him a TD to boot....

I guess. You could also argue that Orton still gives us the best chance to win, but you'd look just as dumb as you do trying to argue that the defense's miraculous turnaround had nothing to do with Tebow getting the job.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 02:11 PM
...couldn't one also argue that Tebow's success this season has just as much to do with the defense?

I mean hell he played at midfield or better practically the entire Jets game AND they spotted him a TD to boot....

One of the biggest differences between Orton and Tebow, is that Tebow isn't turning the ball over multiple times per game. It's pretty much a direct correlation of why we're winning and the defense is playing better.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 02:12 PM
Well, when giving Tebow credit for anything is an impossibility for you, you are forced to complicate something that is very simple.

Yea..him not turning the ball over 2-3/game has nothing to do with why we're winning or why the D is playing better.

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 02:15 PM
I'm with BabyTO on this one. Elway needs to STFU. He's an executive now, not a player, not a coach. He needs to be in the background. He's coming off a friggen ego-maniac.

If he manages to screw this Tebow situation up and send Tebow somewhere else while bringing in some "pretty" QB that ultimately fails, he will have ruined his legacy in Denver.

How can they not be all in with Tebow for not only this year but next? The kid has shown in uncanny knack for producing WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON! Give him time to get even better and then watch the F out. He is going to light up this league for years.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 02:15 PM
So, Elway was asked about a potential Orton package? And he said it is something they might consider this week?

And a certain section of our fanbase is having kittens about that?

Not just kittens, but BIG kittens. Stretch the birth canal out to the max kittens. Damn near tigers.

Popps
11-21-2011, 02:16 PM
I disagree. I think they're all in with Tebow come hell or high water.

Certainly looks like the wisest business-decision. When was the last time the Broncos were this relevant on a national level?

As for football... we need a bigger sample size.

errand
11-21-2011, 02:19 PM
Elway was injured. You think Elway would get pulled from an AFCCG? LOL

Elway was pulled because of inefficiency....Kubiak got us the TD, and had us near midfield on final drive before Sewell fumbled

Kaylore
11-21-2011, 02:20 PM
Didn't read the whole thread, but honestly I have no problem with what he said. Tim played a bad game (really the whole offense played poor) and came through with mostly runs in the waning moments to win it. Seriously, who wouldn't be doing well if your defense not only held the opposition to 13 points, but scored a TD themselves? That basically means your defense is asking you just to score one touchdown that whole game to win. That's not a tall order.

Elway is a big stickler on third downs. I think we were 3-13 last game. Until Tim starts moving the chains on third down and showing he can be an even average passer, the FO will keep their options open. And they should. Tim can handle the pressure, and if he flames out and we have no viable alternatives we'll really be screwed.

errand
11-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Yea..him not turning the ball over 2-3/game has nothing to do with why we're winning or why the D is playing better.

just as ST's and Defense scoring Td's and setting him up at midfield has nothing to do with his success....we can play this game all day dude

Mile High Mojoe
11-21-2011, 02:22 PM
When Tebow is averaging something like 15 passes a game of which a large number of low % passes, it's going to be difficult to learn anything about him as a passer.

Fox/McCoy are just about putting Tebow in a position to win, but they're not giving him the opportunity to convince EFX to keep him around (not that that's necessarily a problem, wins are the most important thing to me as a fan).

Another moronic thread that has no meaning to it at all then this. For every winner there are dozens of losers, odds are you're one of them.

MplsBronco
11-21-2011, 02:23 PM
Elway was pulled because of inefficiency....Kubiak got us the TD, and had us near midfield on final drive before Sewell fumbled

He was hurt you dumbass.

Stagger Lee
11-21-2011, 02:23 PM
Elway was pulled because of inefficiency....Kubiak got us the TD, and had us near midfield on final drive before Sewell fumbled

Elway was hurt. Deep thigh bruise/contusion.