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Dr. Broncenstein
11-21-2011, 02:24 PM
Loved Elway's obvious enthusiasm last week when the stadium was in pandemonium after Tebow scored the go ahead touchdown. Last time I saw something comparable was when Orton was applauding Tebow's near comeback against San Diego.

errand
11-21-2011, 02:30 PM
Or they could be settling into Allens scheme and starting to play as a unit

Not to mention that doom is finally playing well after injury earlier this year...ditto for williams, and now that opposing QB doesn't have 7-8 seconds to find the open man.

Damn near the entire Jets game we were at midfield or better but we still trailed until that final drive

Play2win
11-21-2011, 02:36 PM
How many three and outs were there in the last game is that what you call keeping the defense fresh?

You are definitely right with that, but honestly I was just trying to look at the silver lining of this type of offense. Thundering herd and all.

It would be great to get Barkley in the draft, he was real impressive last weekend.

Mile High Mojoe
11-21-2011, 02:38 PM
I'm with BabyTO on this one. Elway needs to STFU. He's an executive now, not a player, not a coach. He needs to be in the background. He's coming off a friggen ego-maniac.

If he manages to screw this Tebow situation up and send Tebow somewhere else while bringing in some "pretty" QB that ultimately fails, he will have ruined his legacy in Denver.

How can they not be all in with Tebow for not only this year but next? The kid has shown in uncanny knack for producing WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON! Give him time to get even better and then watch the F out. He is going to light up this league for years.


First... of all why are people overreacting every time Elway opens his mouth?

Second... this isn't an unreasonable thing to say at all, it's a factually statement that even I agree with.

Third... Tebow isn't made out China he knows what the situation is because that's the way this game works at every level of the NFL. Play well and win stay on, suck balls and lose outta here.

Fourth... Tebow has a lot of confidence and I believe no matter what anyone says about him nothing is going stop him playing as hard as he can win or lose.

Fifth Refer to one.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 02:38 PM
Certainly looks like the wisest business-decision. When was the last time the Broncos were this relevant on a national level?

As for football... we need a bigger sample size.

I figure they'll try to ramp up the passing attack with Tebow to finish the season. We'll see how it plays out. I see Tebow doesn't keep his eyes downfield much of the time, he's looking run first, but I've seen him do the opposite at times. I guess it depends on the play call.

They've been very conservative with Tebow these first 5 starts and I guess it's because they want him to settle into the starting role. Dude was pretty manic those first few games starting this season, so IMO that was smart to go run heavy - and they're WINNING. We'll see what happens if/when they start opening up the passing attack.

I believe they want Tebow to succeed, but they're not gonna sacrifice a potential Div Title or playoff berth to see if he'll fail.

Play2win
11-21-2011, 02:39 PM
And it's going to happen

Barkley! Barkley!! Barkley!!!

Gort
11-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Loved Elway's obvious enthusiasm last week when the stadium was in pandemonium after Tebow scored the go ahead touchdown. Last time I saw something comparable was when Orton was applauding Tebow's near comeback against San Diego.

the real John Elway is dead.

the John Elway you see now is a pod people replacement designed to fool the average Broncos fan.

he hasn't fooled me though, because i read Gaffney's book.

vonqkilla
11-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Cito is right, definite opportunities Tebow passed up running to throw incompletions vs Jets.

OrangeSe7en
11-21-2011, 02:41 PM
Barkley! Barkley!! Barkley!!!

Chokely, Chokely, Chokely.

razorwire77
11-21-2011, 02:43 PM
Loved Elway's obvious enthusiasm last week when the stadium was in pandemonium after Tebow scored the go ahead touchdown. Last time I saw something comparable was when Orton was applauding Tebow's near comeback against San Diego.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but Elway's body language and non-verbal communication said a lot. I think he views Tebow's success as being a temporary and that he thinks eventually Tim's going to get exposed because of an inability to throw from the pocket and that this is going to result in injury or the fans turning on him or both. Just a gut feeling based on how noncommittal he's been in regard to Tebow. John strikes me as a pretty smart guy though. At this point he's not going to unload Tebow for a 4th rounder in the off-season or something to alienate the fanbase. However, I could see him using the excuse of a lack of QB depth on the team to draft a QB to compete with Tebow. I also could see them bringing in a veteran QB in the off-season as well.

2KBack
11-21-2011, 02:45 PM
Kyle Orton does. Are you imagining that the defenses new found success has nothing to do with the offense that Tebow is running?

Very little. Don't get me wrong, the defense is helped when you don't turn the ball over, but currently the defense is still on the field a **** ton. Remember how everyone blamed the 3 and outs last year for bad defensive performances? We have just as many 3 and outs now, but the defense is just so much better. They don't miss tackles, they get after the QB.

If I'm not mistaken you were one of the people complaining about 20 points per game with Orton. In 3 of these wins we scored less than 20 points. This isn't a revelation....we are back to the first 6 games of 2009

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 02:48 PM
Didn't read the whole thread, but honestly I have no problem with what he said. Tim played a bad game (really the whole offense played poor) and came through with mostly runs in the waning moments to win it. Seriously, who wouldn't be doing well if your defense not only held the opposition to 13 points, but scored a TD themselves? That basically means your defense is asking you just to score one touchdown that whole game to win. That's not a tall order.

Elway is a big stickler on third downs. I think we were 3-13 last game. Until Tim starts moving the chains on third down and showing he can be an even average passer, the FO will keep their options open. And they should. Tim can handle the pressure, and if he flames out and we have no viable alternatives we'll really be screwed.

Yup. Elway has to do his due diligence and scout potential QB's. I believe he wants Tebow to succeed, but he's not gonna coddle Tebow, nor should he.

errand
11-21-2011, 02:48 PM
the only (OTHER) QB that MIGHT be able to take this team to the superbowl is tom brady. thats who he's comparing tebow with now. we went from the worst team that was competing for that #1 pick to somebody that COULD make it to the superbowl. because of tebow. with orton or any other QB in there we would get shredded. and you're gonna whine about some 3rd down bull**** stat that you pulled out of your ass? how the hell youre gonna win a superbowl with decker as your go to guy. and did this idiot forget that tebow does most damage with his legs? why not take those long runs into account on 3rd down? it doesnt matter if he throws a 10yd pass on 3rd and 9 or if he runs for 10 yards, he gets the 1st down regardless. how does a man that dumb even get a job? didnt they realize how dumb he was when they were interviewing him?

When elway said we can't go 3 for 13...he wasn't talking about passing...he was talking about 3rd downs converted vs 3rd downs faced.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-21-2011, 02:48 PM
the real John Elway is dead.

the John Elway you see now is a pod people replacement designed to fool the average Broncos fan.

he hasn't fooled me though, because i read Gaffney's book.

I flipped off my childhood idol when I saw it live. I had a sad.

Mile High Mojoe
11-21-2011, 02:48 PM
Barkley! Barkley!! Barkley!!!

Are you a dog or Broncos Fan rooting for this years team? I get sick and tired of the constant chatter about the next big thing when right now the Broncos as this moment are in week 11 and have a chance for playoff spot. Hold your draft geek madness until after the season is over numbskull.

OrangeSe7en
11-21-2011, 02:49 PM
Yup. Elway has to do his due diligence and scout potential QB's. I believe he wants Tebow to succeed, but he's not gonna coddle Tebow, nor should he.

What about his due diligence considering other positions?

CEH
11-21-2011, 02:55 PM
I haven't heard that Elway has travel to any SEC games like LSU vs Bama. It has been reported he was at Stanford v CU, USC v CU, Ok vs Baylor, CU vs Ari, and CU vs Ari State. Not "rocket surgery" to see the pattern. When he travels to Texas AM we will know for sure.

TDmvp
11-21-2011, 02:56 PM
If the Broncos screw this up and F Tim over and don't give him a fair chance our front office is stupid.

He is a PR wet dream and if he has success he's the face of the league in a couple years.
Espn is already saying he's the most popular player in the sport over Arron Rodgers and it's not even close.


After the cluster F@#$ that was the Shanny/Josh/Jay mess if our front office screws the pooch on this they should just fold the team and open a outlet mall.

OrangeSe7en
11-21-2011, 02:58 PM
I haven't heard that Elway has travel to any SEC games like LSU vs Bama. It has been reported he was at Stanford v CU, USC v CU, Ok vs Baylor, CU vs Ari, and CU vs Ari State. Not "rocket surgery" to see the pattern. When he travels to Texas AM we will know for sure.

Thats what I'm driving at. If hepeople want to talk about due diligence, he should be going to games like LSU-Alabama, and whatever other games that have 1st round talent playing. It really seems that he's only looking at QBs. When he denied this on the radio, it was a little disengenuous to say that they're scouting other positions.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 03:00 PM
Not to mention that doom is finally playing well after injury earlier this year...ditto for williams, and now that opposing QB doesn't have 7-8 seconds to find the open man.

Damn near the entire Jets game we were at midfield or better but we still trailed until that final drive

Well, that was a nice drive. The Jets looked spent. That's what is supposed to happen when teams come to Mile High. Obviously, the O stunk it up for a long time, but they're looking to wear teams down right now and win it late. We'll see how the O staff attacks D's down the stretch.

Mile High Mojoe
11-21-2011, 03:01 PM
Yup. Elway has to do his due diligence and scout potential QB's. I believe he wants Tebow to succeed, but he's not gonna coddle Tebow, nor should he.

I'm rooting for Tebow to succeed but I understand Elway is doing what he gets paid to do and that's evaluate talent. Nothing wrong with him saying what any general manager would say in the same situation.

Tebow knows he has to earn a spot next year by playing well the rest of the season end of story.

go_broncos
11-21-2011, 03:01 PM
MR ELWAY - YOU ARE CRITICIZING WRONG QB.
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN ORTON WENT 1-4?

DON'T WORRY..TEBOW WILL SHUT YOUR MOUTH WITH HIS PLAY.

Play2win
11-21-2011, 03:02 PM
I haven't heard that Elway has travel to any SEC games like LSU vs Bama. It has been reported he was at Stanford v CU, USC v CU, Ok vs Baylor, CU vs Ari, and CU vs Ari State. Not "rocket surgery" to see the pattern. When he travels to Texas AM we will know for sure.

Its the QB conference, thats for sure. :approve:

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 03:02 PM
I haven't heard that Elway has travel to any SEC games like LSU vs Bama. It has been reported he was at Stanford v CU, USC v CU, Ok vs Baylor, CU vs Ari, and CU vs Ari State. Not "rocket surgery" to see the pattern. When he travels to Texas AM we will know for sure.

Elway is in charge of evaluating QBs, not DL, LBs, etc. That's his specific role in the evaluation process. This means nothing other than he is doing job.

CEH
11-21-2011, 03:07 PM
Elway is in charge of evaluating QBs, not DL, LBs, etc. That's his specific role in the evaluation process. This means nothing other than he is doing job.

We know what he is doing but Elway acts and says that there are 53 guys on the team and he's not just evaluating QBs. His words not mine. IMO, He really needs to do his job and get off the radio for now.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but Elway's body language and non-verbal communication said a lot. I think he views Tebow's success as being a temporary and that he thinks eventually Tim's going to get exposed because of an inability to throw from the pocket and that this is going to result in injury or the fans turning on him or both. Just a gut feeling based on how noncommittal he's been in regard to Tebow. John strikes me as a pretty smart guy though. At this point he's not going to unload Tebow for a 4th rounder in the off-season or something to alienate the fanbase. However, I could see him using the excuse of a lack of QB depth on the team to draft a QB to compete with Tebow. I also could see them bringing in a veteran QB in the off-season as well.

Yeah, but so what if they do? Tebow is still gonna be #1 on the depth chart come TC in 2012.

Kaylore
11-21-2011, 03:09 PM
Elway is in charge of evaluating QBs, not DL, LBs, etc. That's his specific role in the evaluation process. This means nothing other than he is doing job.

And actually he said on the show today, the show that started this thread, that he looks at all their targets for those schools, not just QB's. Sometimes they just send guys where they can when they can and Elway's presence at a game doesn't even mean he's scouting their QB's so much as some prospects need first hand evaluation and Elway is one of many who can be on site at that particular time.

Steve Prefontaine
11-21-2011, 03:16 PM
John Elway was pulled in '91 AFC title game where his pick 6 essentially cost us the game (10-7) and replaced by Gary kubiak who led us on our solo Td drive and also had us near midfield until Sewell fumbled.

Elway was hurt in that game (deep thigh bruise).

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 03:18 PM
Very little. Don't get me wrong, the defense is helped when you don't turn the ball over, but currently the defense is still on the field a **** ton. Remember how everyone blamed the 3 and outs last year for bad defensive performances? We have just as many 3 and outs now, but the defense is just so much better. They don't miss tackles, they get after the QB.

If I'm not mistaken you were one of the people complaining about 20 points per game with Orton. In 3 of these wins we scored less than 20 points. This isn't a revelation....we are back to the first 6 games of 2009

It does help a lot when you believe in your QB.

Mile High Mojoe
11-21-2011, 03:20 PM
It does help a lot when you believe in your QB.

This...and don't forget Von, I think they both are a double edged sword.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 03:21 PM
And actually he said on the show today, the show that started this thread, that he looks at all their targets for those schools, not just QB's. Sometimes they just send guys where they can when they can and Elway's presence at a game doesn't even mean he's scouting their QB's so much as some prospects need first hand evaluation and Elway is one of many who can be on site at that particular time.

Well I'll be. Earlier in the year he said they divided players by position and he was obviously in charge of the QBs

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 03:21 PM
If I'm not mistaken you were one of the people complaining about 20 points per game with Orton. In 3 of these wins we scored less than 20 points. This isn't a revelation....we are back to the first 6 games of 2009

Comparing the point production of Fox's offense to McDaniels' is silly at best, and certainly disingenuous to the argument.

We're averaging 22 points/game with Tebow in the league's most conservative offense. Better than Orton in Mcdaniels' offense.

You can base your take on pretending to see the future, if you want, but I'll just focus on the current reality.

The current reality is that there are exactly 2 QBs in the NFL with a better winning percentage than Tebow, and he's playing on a team that went 4-12 last year.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 03:22 PM
What about his due diligence considering other positions?

I'm sure he's on it. Elway doesn't like to fail.

razorwire77
11-21-2011, 03:22 PM
Yeah, but so what if they do? Tebow is still gonna be #1 on the depth chart come TC in 2012.

That's basically my point. Honestly, I think Elway thought they'd throw Tebow in there, the team would tank, the non-fanatical segment of the fanbase would sour on him, he'd unload Tebow for a 4th or 5th rounder and he would draft a QB in the top 5. Now inexplicably, partially because of the Tebow X factor magic, partially because of a young gelling defense and partially because of AFC west mediocrity the team is suddenly winning.

So now Elway has to recalibrate his strategy, which will be to keep Tebow around atop the depth chart in 2012, but probably to also draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to groom in case the experiment does fail. Obviously, I can't say with any certainty, but I imagine the acquire Luck concept will be replaced with an acquire BPA in the first round and acquire a QB in rounds 2 or 3. We'll see, but I will be shocked if Elway doesn't pull the trigger on a QB in the top half of the draft.

Kaylore
11-21-2011, 03:27 PM
Well I'll be. Earlier in the year he said they divided players by position and he was obviously in charge of the QBs

I'm sure that's true in broad, general sense. And I don't doubt he's taking point on all the QB evaluations. However on the show today he mentioned he wasn't necessarily at the game a couple days ago for QB and that they had a number of prospects they were evaluating.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 03:40 PM
That's basically my point. Honestly, I think Elway thought they'd throw Tebow in there, the team would tank, the non-fanatical segment of the fanbase would sour on him, he'd unload Tebow for a 4th or 5th rounder and he would draft a QB in the top 5. Now inexplicably, partially because of the Tebow X factor magic, partially because of a young gelling defense and partially because of AFC west mediocrity the team is suddenly winning.

So now Elway has to recalibrate his strategy, which will be to keep Tebow around atop the depth chart in 2012, but probably to also draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to groom in case the experiment does fail. Obviously, I can't say with any certainty, but I imagine the acquire Luck concept will be replaced with an acquire BPA in the first round and acquire a QB in rounds 2 or 3. We'll see, but I will be shocked if Elway doesn't pull the trigger on a QB in the top half of the draft.

They haven't made up their minds yet, period. It's gonna be flexible.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 03:43 PM
That's basically my point. Honestly, I think Elway thought they'd throw Tebow in there, the team would tank, the non-fanatical segment of the fanbase would sour on him, he'd unload Tebow for a 4th or 5th rounder and he would draft a QB in the top 5. Now inexplicably, partially because of the Tebow X factor magic, partially because of a young gelling defense and partially because of AFC west mediocrity the team is suddenly winning. I think there's some truth to this. I think that Most of the FO and the coaching staff underestimated Tebow's ability to win games. When Orton went 1-4 the decision to start Tebow was made for them. I don't think they were expecting Tebow to win more than a couple of games the rest of the way, and I would bet they never dreamt of being in the thick of the AFC West Title.

So now Elway has to recalibrate his strategy, which will be to keep Tebow around atop the depth chart in 2012, but probably to also draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to groom in case the experiment does fail. Obviously, I can't say with any certainty, but I imagine the acquire Luck concept will be replaced with an acquire BPA in the first round and acquire a QB in rounds 2 or 3. We'll see, but I will be shocked if Elway doesn't pull the trigger on a QB in the top half of the draft.
This is where I would differ. Based on the last 5 weeks, we're already out of the top 10 so getting a top shelf QB is not in the cards. Using a 2nd or 3rd rounder on a QB would be silly IMO, given the needs at other positions, and the fact that a mid tier QB isn't going to steal Tebow's job.

At this point we're much better off going all in with Tebow through next year, developing Weber or signing a vet to back him up, and then drafting BPA at other areas of need.

I'm still not sold on Tebow, but he's earned the chance to get the rest of this year and a full off-season as "the guy" to show where his ceiling might end up. If he bombs in 2012, we draft a QB high in 2013.

OBF1
11-21-2011, 03:46 PM
Seriously, are there people dumb enough to actually consider this?

On the mane.... the waiting line is long.

cutthemdown
11-21-2011, 03:57 PM
I'm sure that's true in broad, general sense. And I don't doubt he's taking point on all the QB evaluations. However on the show today he mentioned he wasn't necessarily at the game a couple days ago for QB and that they had a number of prospects they were evaluating.

Stanford has a top ranked guard I believe also right? Broncos may be trying to not let on what they want to do. By saying we aren't sure about tebow teams may think they want a QB, who knows. I am not saying i think that only that it is how I would be if I was doing it. I would say Tebow stinks then hope some team jumps ahead of us to grab a QB they think we want etc etc.

That is why i take all the info i hear wit a grain of salt so to speak.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm sure that's true in broad, general sense. And I don't doubt he's taking point on all the QB evaluations. However on the show today he mentioned he wasn't necessarily at the game a couple days ago for QB and that they had a number of prospects they were evaluating.

Let us be honest though. Elway is there because two highly touted QBs are playing in the same game. I think he is down playing it just like every FO does during the pre draft inquiries. They might send Elway to talk about safety positions but I am sure they would have a scout that specializes in DBs if we are going that way high in the draft. No way they send Elway to do just that job. It is about QBs first and foremost.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-21-2011, 04:04 PM
Stanford has a top ranked guard I believe also right? Broncos may be trying to not let on what they want to do. By saying we aren't sure about tebow teams may think they want a QB, who knows. I am not saying i think that only that it is how I would be if I was doing it. I would say Tebow stinks then hope some team jumps ahead of us to grab a QB they think we want etc etc.

That is why i take all the info i hear wit a grain of salt so to speak.

You would publically say Tebow stinks, divide a locker room, embarrass yourself, anger a fan base, and alienate a player all to possibly trick someone during next years draft?

OrangeSe7en
11-21-2011, 04:12 PM
Well I'll be. Earlier in the year he said they divided players by position and he was obviously in charge of the QBs

On the show, he suggested they were looking at other positions when he started getting questions about looking at QBs.

Yeah, I'm sure Elway is going to games to see 4th round CBs.

CEH
11-21-2011, 04:12 PM
On the show, he suggested they were looking at other positions when he started getting questions about looking at QBs.

Yeah, I'm sure Elway is going to games to see 4th round CBs.

He better be looking at Kendell Wright
We should be rolling ppl if the offense was semi decent

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 04:12 PM
just as ST's and Defense scoring Td's and setting him up at midfield has nothing to do with his success....we can play this game all day dude

We've scored 1 defensive TD and 1 ST TD all year, calm down. Tebow has 2 TO's in 5.5 games. Orton had over 10 in 4.5.

edog24
11-21-2011, 04:16 PM
That's basically my point. Honestly, I think Elway thought they'd throw Tebow in there, the team would tank, the non-fanatical segment of the fanbase would sour on him, he'd unload Tebow for a 4th or 5th rounder and he would draft a QB in the top 5. Now inexplicably, partially because of the Tebow X factor magic, partially because of a young gelling defense and partially because of AFC west mediocrity the team is suddenly winning.

So now Elway has to recalibrate his strategy, which will be to keep Tebow around atop the depth chart in 2012, but probably to also draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to groom in case the experiment does fail. Obviously, I can't say with any certainty, but I imagine the acquire Luck concept will be replaced with an acquire BPA in the first round and acquire a QB in rounds 2 or 3. We'll see, but I will be shocked if Elway doesn't pull the trigger on a QB in the top half of the draft.

If we draft a QB I'm going to barf. Where we will draft will give us projects for qbs. We have way too many holes to draft a project qb somewhere in the mid first round, where there will be tons of talent offensively and defensively.

Why is this year's class the end all for drafting a QB? If Tebow ends up sucking next year we can pick up any journeyman QB to back him up and come in if teams can somehow magically stop him next year. Why can't we draft a QB in 2013 if Tebow ends up sucking next year?

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 04:18 PM
Very little. Don't get me wrong, the defense is helped when you don't turn the ball over, but currently the defense is still on the field a **** ton. Remember how everyone blamed the 3 and outs last year for bad defensive performances? We have just as many 3 and outs now, but the defense is just so much better. They don't miss tackles, they get after the QB.

If I'm not mistaken you were one of the people complaining about 20 points per game with Orton. In 3 of these wins we scored less than 20 points. This isn't a revelation....we are back to the first 6 games of 2009

The difference is that we're not turning the ball over.

Dedhed
11-21-2011, 04:22 PM
The difference is that we're not turning the ball over.

And, of course, that now when we absolutely need a play, we have a guy who can make one.

errand
11-21-2011, 04:26 PM
Elway was hurt in that game (deep thigh bruise).

He got injured early in 3rd qtr...but played until there was about 4 minutes left in the game...and he was ineffective. You wanna claim it was an injury that caused him to leave, fine...you're right. I'm wrong. Sorry.

tsiguy96
11-21-2011, 04:28 PM
i think executives being at games is really being overblown. every school is gonna get scouted by denver, and every big QB is scouted in person.

edog24
11-21-2011, 04:29 PM
i think executives being at games is really being overblown. every school is gonna get scouted by denver, and every big QB is scouted in person.

But then what would we argue about?

DarkHorse30
11-21-2011, 04:36 PM
bottom line to me is that Denver is a work in progress. We expected NOTHING this year, as far as production from our team. Too many new players, switching coaches- etc., etc., etc.

"What Tebow is or isn't" is the question that NO ONE is shying away from. It's funny that a player can generate this much interest.

TD4HOF
11-21-2011, 04:39 PM
Those that KNOW (like Mark Shlereth and all of the other talking heads) keep saying that what Tebow is doing can't be done....and the qualifer word is "long term". That qualifer has been changing since Tebow started. It will continue to morph, no matter what the young man does, or how many games he wins.

Meanwhile, THE TEAM is behind their young QB 110%, we aren't turning the ball over and the players manning the trenches on both sides of the ball are improving demonstrably.

......but we don't have a "good, long term" QB. Well who does? And none of the "long termers" were immediately successful, but they were given LOADS of rope to hang themselves with. Not our guy, though. Why? Good question.

Post of the year.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 04:42 PM
We've scored 1 defensive TD and 1 ST TD all year, calm down. Tebow has 2 TO's in 5.5 games. Orton had over 10 in 4.5.

We have two punt returns for TDs.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 04:45 PM
We have two punt returns for TDs.

Word. Forgot the Decker TD!

gunns
11-21-2011, 04:57 PM
From the things I am seeing now I feel very convinced this starting Tebow was in fact sabotage..

There can really be no question now.

Tebow is winning and they are still throwing him under the bus. They played the crappiest gameplan around Tebow.. he still won and they act like they want to bench him for Orton.

They DID in fact start him because of fan outcry. I also think Fox or Elway was the guy that said Tebow was third string.

And to suggest these guys are being "honest" is ludicrous.

If they are being honest they are truly mentally handicapped to do the retarded things they are doing schematically..

Do you post under the name McGaffney too?

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 05:01 PM
And, of course, that no when we absolutely need a play, we have a guy who can make one.

Yeah, that's a big deal.

barryr
11-21-2011, 05:02 PM
The question is still out on Tebow and if this team is committed to designing an offense to fit what Tebow does best or not. If Elway wants a pure pocket passer, then obviously that isn't Tebow. Tebow does too many great things outside the pocket and reigning him in would just be stupid. So much depends on what kind of offense they want. If Elway wants a traditional type of offense, then that means Tebow isn't the answer.

gunns
11-21-2011, 05:05 PM
If we draft a QB I'm going to barf. Where we will draft will give us projects for qbs. We have way too many holes to draft a project qb somewhere in the mid first round, where there will be tons of talent offensively and defensively.

Why is this year's class the end all for drafting a QB? If Tebow ends up sucking next year we can pick up any journeyman QB to back him up and come in if teams can somehow magically stop him next year. Why can't we draft a QB in 2013 if Tebow ends up sucking next year?

What is the problem to draft a QB? If Tebow does end up sucking we have someone on board already instead of a journeyman QB who is thinking about retirement. Yeah let's wait till 2013 and then we can wait till at least 2015 to sniff a championship. You wait, I prefer not to.

teknic
11-21-2011, 05:24 PM
What is the problem to draft a QB? If Tebow does end up sucking we have someone on board already instead of a journeyman QB who is thinking about retirement. Yeah let's wait till 2013 and then we can wait till at least 2015 to sniff a championship. You wait, I prefer not to.

This.

Even if they see Tebow as the starter next season, I wouldn't mind taking a QB if he falls to us in the draft. Quinn and Orton are gone at the end of the season, so we need depth anyways. Good teams like Green Bay are constantly drafting and developing QBs.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 05:29 PM
The question is still out on Tebow and if this team is committed to designing an offense to fit what Tebow does best or not. If Elway wants a pure pocket passer, then obviously that isn't Tebow. Tebow does too many great things outside the pocket and reigning him in would just be stupid. So much depends on what kind of offense they want. If Elway wants a traditional type of offense, then that means Tebow isn't the answer.

I think that most Broncos fans at this point are sold on the idea that Tebow has earned the right to develop as a player in Denver than they are sold on the idea that Elway is a good manager.

Elway has truly handled this Tebow thing like an abject moron. Its very disappointing because the guy made me a football fan. He should just shut up and get out of the way, but for some reason he believes he needs to go in front of the media and make unwise statements that cause unneeded controversy.

I mean seriously, Elway...the team just put itself back into the playoff hunt. You want to throw a wrench in that?

Elway botched the trades of Orton, Lloyd, and Gaffney. He chose to pay Warren instead of Okoye (trade and pay) or Mebane. He sat on the Broncos' cap space when he could have brought in veterans to address the problems at DL, LB, CB, and then he created a problem at WR. We brought in a RB who is injury prone and had nothing behind him.

Elway has been involved in some good things too, but if you hold his record as a manager up to the record that Tebow has as a player, Tebow looks pretty dang good.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 05:31 PM
What is the problem to draft a QB? If Tebow does end up sucking we have someone on board already instead of a journeyman QB who is thinking about retirement. Yeah let's wait till 2013 and then we can wait till at least 2015 to sniff a championship. You wait, I prefer not to.

Um..championship?

Did you seriously just mention 'championship'? Ha!

This team just won three games in a row for the first time in years, and we're talking about the difference between this team and a championship team being the player who has been the catalyst of the turn-around of the franchise?

You guys realize how ridiculous this stuff sounds, right?

elsid13
11-21-2011, 05:32 PM
Elway is in charge of evaluating QBs, not DL, LBs, etc. That's his specific role in the evaluation process. This means nothing other than he is doing job.

Elway and Xanders aren't scouts or position coaches, their job is look over everything not evaluate a single position. If they are out at the games they are there for major strategic reason.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 05:36 PM
...for some reason he believes he needs to go in front of the media and make unwise statements that cause unneeded controversy...

There's only "controversy" because imbecilic morons like you overreact to things which really aren't all that big of a deal.

LetsGoBroncos
11-21-2011, 05:44 PM
There's only "controversy" because imbecilic morons like you overreact to things which really aren't all that big of a deal.

How is Elway sending the message with his words and actions that they aren't ready to move forward with Tebow not a big deal? He will improve as a passer over time if given the opportunity. He's started 8 games!!

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 05:44 PM
There's only "controversy" because imbecilic morons like you overreact to things which really aren't all that big of a deal.

People who are more intelligent than you obviously are will be able to see pretty easily that this kind of thing gives an ambiguous answer that will put this stuff in the press because of that ambiguity.

The ambiguity made this a massive thread because it is controversial.

So maybe its you who is the imbecile. Well...no 'maybe' involved. Its you.

errand
11-21-2011, 05:46 PM
But, do contrast that with Orton (or similar QBs/Offensive schemes), and it seemed like the defense was on the field all day long.

Contrast and compare...

as far as time of possesion, tossing out the SD game due to them both playing a half, the broncos averaged about 29 minutes TOP with Orton, and about 31 mintues TOP with Tebow....basically a wash.

However, looking at the defense, the generated 6 turnovers with Orton, and 7 turnovers with Tebow...and in the 4.5 games Orton played, they had 8 sacks....in the 5.5 games Tebow started they generated 19 sacks.

Add in the allowing a TD less per game and it's plain to see that the defense has nothing to do with the Broncos 4-1 run

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 05:47 PM
How many three and outs were there in the last game is that what you call keeping the defense fresh?

When your coach calls run play after run play with an ineffective run game YES. The run game had allowing the Broncos defense rest the previous games as well.

errand
11-21-2011, 05:52 PM
We've scored 1 defensive TD and 1 ST TD all year, calm down. Tebow has 2 TO's in 5.5 games. Orton had over 10 in 4.5.

Cassius Vaughn returned a INT 55 yards for TD vs chargers, and Eric Decker had TD return vs Raiders so, both QB's have had one of each....

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 05:53 PM
Cassius Vaughn returned a INT 55 yards for TD vs chargers, and Eric Decker had TD return vs Raiders so, both QB's have had one of each....

Royal

errand
11-21-2011, 06:02 PM
Royal

Yes...royal had one vs Raiders in game two...Decker had his on opening night.

Vaughn (chargers) and Goodman (jets) had the two pick 6's...one when Orton was our Qb...and one when Tebow was

gunns
11-21-2011, 06:03 PM
Um..championship?

Did you seriously just mention 'championship'? Ha!

This team just won three games in a row for the first time in years, and we're talking about the difference between this team and a championship team being the player who has been the catalyst of the turn-around of the franchise?

You guys realize how ridiculous this stuff sounds, right?

Isn't that what we're supposed to be working towards? If Tebow ends up not being our QB of the future after next year, and we are drafting the pieces we need, I do not want to have to work with a QB, who shows promise but still makes rookie mistakes until 2015. (No, Tebow's mistakes are not rookie mistakes). If Tebow is our QB, nothing lost picking up a QB. With the defense improving and drafts and FA coming up I see no reason this team can't turn around fast especially if they pick in the draft like they did this year. We're not the Oakland Raiders after all.

cutthemdown
11-21-2011, 06:05 PM
You would publically say Tebow stinks, divide a locker room, embarrass yourself, anger a fan base, and alienate a player all to possibly trick someone during next years draft?

Well know not like that, I should have said I would act like I am not sold on Tebow. He keeps working, teams think we may want a QB. That could force a team to jump ahead of us, or trade with us, or make a move they otherwise would not. Saying I would say he stinks was stupid sorry.

My point was Elway probably isn't saying exactly how he feels. Why would he?

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 06:08 PM
Yes...royal had one vs Raiders in game two...Decker had his on opening night.

Vaughn (chargers) and Goodman (jets) had the two pick 6's...one when Orton was our Qb...and one when Tebow was

Okay, gotcha.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 06:10 PM
Isn't that what we're supposed to be working towards? If Tebow ends up not being our QB of the future after next year, and we are drafting the pieces we need, I do not want to have to work with a QB, who shows promise but still makes rookie mistakes until 2015. (No, Tebow's mistakes are not rookie mistakes). If Tebow is our QB, nothing lost picking up a QB. With the defense improving and drafts and FA coming up I see no reason this team can't turn around fast especially if they pick in the draft like they did this year. We're not the Oakland Raiders after all.

If and when we make the playoffs...then start talking about the difference between the team and the title.

There is simply zero reason to be discussing championships right now because the team is so far away that we wouldn't know one way or the other whether or not Tebow would be satisfactory on a championship team three seasons from now.

This team is not one season away from a championship unless Tebow puts them there.

If the Broncos draft a QB, the team is even further away as they'll have to wait for that QB to get up to speed.

Talking about whether or not Tebow can theoretically win a championship is just too abstract to mean anything at this point.

We do know this much: Tebow is the difference between 1-4 and 4-1 with this team.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:15 PM
Elway is an idiot as a Front Office guy. He's never had any intention of running w/ Tebow. EFX plugged him in hoping he would tank. Well, that didn't happen and now Elway is getting desperate.

The Front Office has convinced itself that the 2012 draft is loaded with "Can't Miss Once-In-A-Generation" QB's, and they're determined to bet the farm for one of 'em.

I still think there's a good chance Elway will trade Tebow to some other team in 2012 in a secret blockbuster deal reminiscent of the Shannyham days.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 06:15 PM
I think the big issue is that Fox will not change his system to fit Tebow.. that is what all this is about.. AND Elway picked Fox.. so he obviously wants Fox to play his style.

So in their minds it's Tebow's fault because he can't adapt to their system.

Others will say "but Fox put the option in"

Yes.. but that only enhances the run game.. not Tebow's passing. That is the only reason Fox was willing to change that aspect of the game because he wants to run all the time and pass rarely to protect his defense.

But I also think they know that with the weak Bronco run game they are asking Tebow to do the impossible by saving it.. especially having no experience.

It's sabotage.. Vince Young had it much better than this on the Titans.. Tebow has a far tougher uphill battle and a worse team.

I also think that Fox and Elway must blame Tebow for Orton's failure early in the season. It's ego.. they believe things would have worked great with Orton and their brilliant decision making without the "Tebow thing" hanging over the franchise..

Which is why they aren't giving Tebow credit for the recent success. It's going to be a rude awakening for them when Tebow isn't carrying them.

bowtown
11-21-2011, 06:18 PM
I think the big issue is that Fox will not change his system to fit Tebow.. that is what all this is about.. AND Elway picked Fox.. so he obviously wants Fox to play hi style.

so in their minds it's Tebow's fault because he ca't adapt to their system.

Others will say "but Fox put the option in"

Yes.. but that only enhances the run game.. not Tebow's passing. That is the only reason Fox was willing to change that aspect of the game because he wants to run all the time and pass rarely.

But I also think they know that with the weak Brconso run game they are asking Tebow to do the impossible by saving it.. especially having no experience.

It's sabotage.. Vince Young had it much better than this on the Texans.. Tebow has a far tougher uphill battle and a worse team.

I also think that Fox and Elway must blame Tebow for Orton;s failure early in the season. It;s ego.. they believe things would have worked great with Orton and their brilliant decision making without the "Tebow thing" hanging over the franchise..

Which is why they aren't giving Tebow credit for the recent success. It's going to be a rude awakening for them when Tebow isn't carrying them.

McGruder once again proving he knows nothing about NFL football.

Vegas_Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:18 PM
Elway isn't a proven decision maker on this team...he was a great athlete but he still has much to prove just like tim tebow does. Let's make sure we enjoy the ride..one big difference, is that our team is playing well and is getting better with the added pressure.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 06:20 PM
McGruder once again proving he knows nothing about NFL football.

Witch hunt...

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:20 PM
I agree with McGruder. If Elway and Fox *really* wanted Tebow to succeed, they'd let him play the style of game he used so successfully in college and only modify things if there was clear proof that it wasn't working.

They'd also stop messing around with his throwing mechanics. If Tebow wants to wind up his arm and throw like a baseball pitcher, LET HIM! It work fine in college. Go look at some of the YouTube video of Tebow in college. The guy was VERY accurate.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:23 PM
I agree with MacGruder. If Elway and Fox *really* wanted Tebow to succeed, they'd let him play the style of game he used so successfully college and only modify things if there was clear proof that it wasn't working.

They'd also stop messing around with his throwing mechanics. If Tebow wants to wind up his arm and throw like a baseball pitcher, LET HIM! It work fine in college. Go look at some of the YouTube video of Tebow in college. The guy was VERY accurate.

They should have done the samething with Ryan Leaf. He was a baller in college.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:25 PM
They should have done the samething with Ryan Leaf. He was a baller in college.

Leaf was also an a$$hole. You can't fix that with coaching or a "special" game plan.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-21-2011, 06:27 PM
Witch hunt...

Which witch does a witch hunt hunt if the witch which hunts is projecting?

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 06:31 PM
Also.. because they were the ones that asked him to change his motion it seems incredibly F'ed up to throw him under the bus when they screwed him up... and are giving him no time to get comfortable playing with the new motion.

They won't even let him pass the ball to get used to the new motion in games.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:31 PM
Leaf was also an a$$hole. You can't fix that with coaching or a "special" game plan.

The owners should have brought in college his coaches to handle him. Maybe even super nanny.

If you don't feel like our staff is doing enough to make a QB that is currently 3-1 this year to succeed then why do you think that the Chargers did enough for Leaf?

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:33 PM
Also.. because they were the ones that asked him to change his motion it seems incredibly F'ed up to throw him under the buss when they screwed him up... and are giving him no time to get comfortable playing with the new motion.

They won't even let him pass the ball to get used to the new motion in games.

Well, I'm sure there are at least a half dozen teams out there willing to give Tebow a fair shake and happy to let him "revert" to his throwing style from college. It may be that in 2012 Tebow will be long gone from Denver, and Elway will be going on and on about how "Timmy just wasn't the right fit for us, but we're happy about all the success he's currently having with [FILL IN NAME OF TEAM SMART ENOUGH TO TRADE FOR TEBOW]."

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:35 PM
The owners should have brought in college his coaches to handle him. Maybe even super nanny.

If you don't feel like our staff is doing enough to make a QB that is currently 3-1 this year to succeed then why do you think that the Chargers did enough for Leaf?

My own view is that Leaf was just way too immature to succeed in the NFL. A nanny or college mentors wouldn't have helped. Leaf couldn't even make it through his first locker room interview without going ballistic.

Tebow OTOH is confident, polite, thoughtful, considerate, smart, gracious and selfless. Everything that Leaf was not.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 06:39 PM
The thing is.. the way they are doing this may be to prevent him from getting a shot somewhere else. People believe that the Broncos changed everything for Tebow and he still sucks. Even though it isn't the truth, perception is reality for many.

I think they are desperately trying to throw Tebow under the bus to prevent him from coming back and biting them in the butt somewhere else.

This comment was no accident IMO..

Fox: "If Tebow was in a normal system he'd be screwed"

Fox: "I lost sleep about this comment"... yeah right...

HAT
11-21-2011, 06:39 PM
Well, I'm sure there are at least a half dozen teams out there willing to give Tebow a fair shake and happy to let him "revert" to his throwing style from college. It may be that in 2012 Tebow will be long gone from Denver, and Elway will be going on and on about how "Timmy just wasn't the right fit for us, be we're happy about all the success he's currently having with [FILL IN NAME OF TEAM SMART ENOUGH TO TRADE FOR TEBOW]."

Don't look now but it could get real interesting on draft day if J'ville is on the clock and Barkley is still on the board.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 06:41 PM
The owners should have brought in college his coaches to handle him. Maybe even super nanny.

If you don't feel like our staff is doing enough to make a QB that is currently 3-1 this year to succeed then why do you think that the Chargers did enough for Leaf?

Tebow is great enough to adapt to Fox even though Fox won't adapt to him. Without Tebow's dominant running ability he would be screwed with Fox as his coach...

Which is surely WHY Fox said that publicly... they want everyone to think Tebow sucks. Why else would he say that? no one can be that dumb..

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:42 PM
Don't look now but it could get real interesting on draft day if J'ville is on the clock and Barkley is still on the board.

I think the top two candidate teams are both in Florida, and for good reason.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:45 PM
My own view is that Leaf was just way too immature to succeed in the NFL. A nanny or college mentors wouldn't have helped. Leaf couldn't even make it through his first locker room interview without going ballistic.

Tebow OTOH is confident, polite, thoughtful, considerate, smart, gracious and selfless. Everything that Leaf was not.

They didn't try so I guess we will never know. Point is you can't say a dude was good in college so he should be in the NFL. If that was true no team would ever draft a bust.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:47 PM
They didn't try so I guess we will never know. Point is you can't say a dude was good in college so he should be in the NFL. If that was true no team would ever draft a bust.

I wasn't making a blanket statement. It was only about Tebow. But he has credentials that no one in the history of college football ever had: true sophomore Heisman winner, 2-time national champion, etc. etc.

The notion that someone with these credentials needed re-invent himself (or let dumb coaches like McStalin or Fox "tweak" his throwing motion) for the NFL is just laughable.

It would be like recruiting Steve Jobs from Apple but then telling him he needed to earn an MBA before you'd let him become your CEO.

CEH
11-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Also.. because they were the ones that asked him to change his motion it seems incredibly F'ed up to throw him under the bus when they screwed him up... and are giving him no time to get comfortable playing with the new motion.

They won't even let him pass the ball to get used to the new motion in games.

Change which throwing motion : the new one he worked on before the draft or his throwing motion from college or the throwing motion Josh work with him on. I can't keep track which throwing motion you are referring to but then again the Tebownites are playing the blame game again.

HAT
11-21-2011, 06:48 PM
I think the top two candidate teams are both in Florida, and for good reason.

Miami will draft there own guy if they're in contention for one of the 4 top 10 QB's. New coach looking for his own QBOTF and all that.

Jax might just say **** it, let's fill up the stadium.

Hulamau
11-21-2011, 06:50 PM
Elway's reaction on Thursday was very telling.

You can b**** about trying too read to much into things, but the combination of a light applause and everything he's ever said makes a pretty easy conclusion that Elway is not on board the Tebow train.

FWIW, Xanders was fist pumping behind Elway.

You're reading way too much into it, Elway was clapping AND whistling at the same time after Tim scored the game winner! Elway has never been an over the top celebration type ... except after his first SB win understandably.

But I found his comments honest and pretty much on the money. He likes Tim's progress but isn't ready to annoint him the second coming just yet nor should he be! Encouraged Hell yes he clearly is! ..Totally convinced Tim is the franchise guy for the next 15 years, not just yet folks.

And so he clearly reinforced the message to Tim he has to get better in a hurry in the passing game to become all he can be and that we need him to be to be a consistent winner for years to come and not just winning against teams with either a lousy defense and/or a lousy QB and forcing our defense to play lights out every game to pull it off.

Garcia Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:52 PM
You're reading way too much into it, Elway was clapping AND whistling at the same time after Tim scored the game winner! Elway has never been an over the top celebration type ... except after his first SB win understandably.

But I found his comments honest and pretty much on the money. He likes Tim's progress but isn't ready to annoint him the second coming just yet nor should he be! Encouraged Hell yes he clearly is! ..Totally convinced Tim is the franchise guy for the next 15 years, not just yet folks.

And so he clearly reinforced the message to Tim he has to get better in a hurry in the passing game to become all he can be and that we need him to be to be a consistent winner for years to come and not just winning against teams with either a lousy defense and/or a lousy QB and forcing our defense to play lights out every game to pull it off.

And John got the same treatment from Reeves. It made Elway tough.

Hamrob
11-21-2011, 06:57 PM
And actually he said on the show today, the show that started this thread, that he looks at all their targets for those schools, not just QB's. Sometimes they just send guys where they can when they can and Elway's presence at a game doesn't even mean he's scouting their QB's so much as some prospects need first hand evaluation and Elway is one of many who can be on site at that particular time.Come on man! Elway has been at games that feature 1st round QB picks. Be honest. He' scouting QB's.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:58 PM
I wasn't making a blanket statement. It was only about Tebow. But he has credentials that no one in the history of college football ever had: true sophomore Heisman winner, 2-time national champion, etc. etc.

The notion that someone with these credentials needed re-invent himself (or let dumb coaches like McStalin or Fox "tweak" his throwing motion) for the NFL is just laughable.

It would be like recruiting Steve Jobs from Apple but then telling him he needed to earn an MBA before you'd let him become your CEO.

If you don't think every player doesn't have to change or learn new things to be successful in the NFL no matter how good they played in college I don't know what to tell you. Even Tebow himself said he need to change his motion to make it in the NFL.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 06:58 PM
Change which throwing motion : the new one he worked on before the draft or his throwing motion from college or the throwing motion Josh work with him on. I can't keep track which throwing motion you are referring to but then again the Tebownites are playing the blame game again.

If I'm not mistaken, Tebow actually began to tweak his throwing motion *before* he was drafted. I think this was in response to all the criticism from the so-called Draft Day Experts.

I think it is the one time that Tebow wasn't true to himself. I understand his motives for doing this: it was to show NFL teams he was willing to be coached given his unorthodox throwing style.

As soon as McStalin got his paws in Tebow, he wasted no time in micromanaging all of Tebow's throwing mechanics, and Fox has just made a bad situation even worse.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 07:00 PM
You're reading way too much into it, Elway was clapping AND whistling at the same time after Tim scored the game winner! Elway has never been an over the top celebration type ... except after his first SB win understandably.

But I found his comments honest and pretty much on the money. He likes Tim's progress but isn't ready to annoint him the second coming just yet nor should he be! Encouraged Hell yes he clearly is! ..Totally convinced Tim is the franchise guy for the next 15 years, not just yet folks.

And so he clearly reinforced the message to Tim he has to get better in a hurry in the passing game to become all he can be and that we need him to be to be a consistent winner for years to come and not just winning against teams with either a lousy defense and/or a lousy QB and forcing our defense to play lights out every game to pull it off.

Hopefully Elway is wiser than to believe that Tebow alone is responsible for third down conversions. I'm pretty sure that we run the ball almost as much on third down as Tebow throws it. I know that Decker alone dropped two third down conversions last week, that Royal ran a route short and Tebow delivered a strike with the trust that his WR knew where the sticks were, and that JJ couldn't carry a Tebow pass the extra yard to get the conversion.

Can Tebow convert better? Sure. The guy is a developmental QB who is still managing to win games despite his shortcomings. You don't replace a guy like that. You build the team and watch him grow.

Hamrob
11-21-2011, 07:01 PM
I'm having trouble seeing what's positive about Elway's statement.

If you are a Broncos player...that's hardly what you want to hear, when you are trying to battle for the division lead. It can't be a statement that makes Tebow feel good about himself.

Why not, play the middle of the road and say, that he's seen improvement, but he still has a lot of ground to cover. Then, do whatever the hell you want after the games are played.

Pure stupidity on Elway's part in my opinion!

Any takers.....that Elway is back on the podium thrying to explain this one....this week???

If I were Dawkins and Bailey...I'd be in Elway's office....saying, "In case you weren't aware, we're trying to win football games...we don't need this ****!".

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 07:01 PM
And John got the same treatment from Reeves. It made Elway tough.

I have wondered the same thing about Elway's approach in this situation.

I guess that time will tell as to whether or not he is taking that tact.

ZONA
11-21-2011, 07:02 PM
Elway's reaction on Thursday was very telling.

You can b**** about trying too read to much into things, but the combination of a light applause and everything he's ever said makes a pretty easy conclusion that Elway is not on board the Tebow train.

FWIW, Xanders was fist pumping behind Elway.

easy conclusion? wtf, you guys think you are some jedi mind readers or something? LMFAO

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 07:07 PM
Can Tebow convert better? Sure. The guy is a developmental QB who is still managing to win games despite his shortcomings. You don't replace a guy like that. You build the team and watch him grow.

After Elway retired, Shannyham was desperate to show the world that he was a football genius who could win without Elway and a shelf full of HOF-caliber players. Well, it turned out that Shannyham wasn't such a genius after all.

Elway suffers from the same self-absorbed pride. He wants to build a winner in Denver, but the team MUST be in his own image. If Tebow is part of the equation, he's afraid the pundits will always be saying, "Well, don't forget: it was McDaniels who drafted Tebow."

yerner
11-21-2011, 07:11 PM
Sweet....Mcdaniels is 6 and 0..

barryr
11-21-2011, 07:14 PM
It is funny though after this team has gone 4-1 with Tebow as a starter, those in the media and other sources claim they can't continue to win with Tebow or they can't go anywhere with Tebow as a QB, yet just where were they going before Tebow became QB?

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 07:17 PM
It is funny though after this team has gone 4-1 with Tebow as a starter, those in the media and other sources claim they can't continue to win with Tebow or they can't go anywhere with Tebow as a QB, yet just where were they going before Tebow became QB?

They'd rather create a Reality Distortion Field than admit they misjudged Tebow. Now they need to keep doubling down to feed the field.

RunSilentRunDeep
11-21-2011, 07:19 PM
Elway is being a tool and should stop doing interviews. It's fine if he still has doubts about Tebow and scouts other QBs. Just keep your mouth shut about it. In the fans' and players' eyes, the team is not in a rebuilding year anymore and is competing for a division title and beyond. You don't publicly question your winning QB at the time. Either dodge the question or don't do interviews.

Jay3
11-21-2011, 07:21 PM
The owners should have brought in college his coaches to handle him. Maybe even super nanny.

If you don't feel like our staff is doing enough to make a QB that is currently 3-1 this year to succeed then why do you think that the Chargers did enough for Leaf?

It's 4-1. I know the wins are coming in bunches, so it's hard to keep track.

Garcia Bronco
11-21-2011, 07:21 PM
After Elway retired, Shannyham was desperate to show the world that he was a football genius who could win without Elway and a shelf full of HOF-caliber players. Well, it turned out that Shannyham wasn't such a genius after all.

Elway suffers from the same self-absorbed pride. He wants to build a winner in Denver, but the team MUST be in his own image. If Tebow is part of the equation, he's afraid the pundits will always be saying, "Well, don't forget: it was McDaniels who drafted Tebow."

There is no evidence to support your claim.


(sigh) You are projecting.

CEH
11-21-2011, 07:21 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Tebow actually began to tweak his throwing motion *before* he was drafted. I think this was in response to all the criticism from the so-called Draft Day Experts.

I think it is the one time that Tebow wasn't true to himself. I understand his motives for doing this: it was to show NFL teams he was willing to be coached given his unorthodox throwing style.

As soon as McStalin got his paws in Tebow, he wasted no time in micromanaging all of Tebow's throwing mechanics, and Fox has just made a bad situation even worse.

I know he worked on it "before" draft I said so in my post. I was wondering what motion Fox screwed up. To me this is a lame attempt to blame someone else when Tebow himself changed his motion. Tebownites can't even get the timeline correct . It's always someone else's fault. I know when you guys have so many "excuses" it hard to keep them straight.

Jay3
11-21-2011, 07:22 PM
Nobody expects Elway to come out and commit to Tebow. (Heck, I think he wants to pick a quarterback and find a way to dump Tebow, and if that's his decision, that's his decision). But I think we can reasonably expect that Elway not constantly "message the media" about Tebow. Give him his shot, show him support, and then do what you have to do. But stop with all the mouthy, chatty-Cathy.

Elway said all along it was about winning games, and that no amount of popularity would hold up in importance to winning games.

Then the Broncos go 4-1, even up their record, and are in the playoff hunt . . . . and now is the time he chooses to dialog the media about critiquing the finer points of Tebow's development?

If anything, the FO has gone from saying "Let's win now, and stop all this obsession with the future" to "Sure, we're winning now, but let's talk about the future."

I think Elway just doesn't know how to properly deflect a question. The media hounds are always going to ask a question you don't want to answer -- there are a hundred ways to sidestep it.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 07:22 PM
Elway is being a tool and should stop doing interviews. It's fine if he still has doubts about Tebow and scouts other QBs. Just keep your mouth shut about it. In the fans' and players' eyes, the team is not in a rebuilding year anymore and is competing for a division title and beyond. You don't publicly question your winning QB at the time. Either dodge the question or don't do interviews.

The fact that we're discussing this is proof that Elway has no business in the Front Office. He lacks the temperament, diplomacy and tact to do well in this role. He could have been a competent advisor, but as VP he puts his foot in his mouth every other day.

Jay3
11-21-2011, 07:25 PM
The fact that we're discussing this is proof that Elway has no business in the Front Office. He lacks the temperament, diplomacy and tact to do well in this role. He could have been a competent advisor, but as VP he puts his foot in his mouth every other day.

All he's got to do is say "I luv Tebow" and everybody will shut up and let him do his job.

Then go off and pull a Shanny and pick a quarterback. Just say (at the time) "we think this guy is special, and we couldn't pass up a franchise qb."

No need to conduct PR management during the season about it.

errand
11-21-2011, 07:25 PM
As soon as McStalin got his paws in Tebow, he wasted no time in micromanaging all of Tebow's throwing mechanics, and Fox has just made a bad situation even worse.

Tebow threw the ball better last season than he has this season...so evidently McDaniels was onto something....

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 07:27 PM
People who are more intelligent than you obviously are will be able to see pretty easily that this kind of thing gives an ambiguous answer that will put this stuff in the press because of that ambiguity.

The ambiguity made this a massive thread because it is controversial.

So maybe its you who is the imbecile. Well...no 'maybe' involved. Its you.

Will are I be able to see pretty easily the ambiguity within the answer that this was to the massive press because of that ambiguity? Yes, it's controversial.

And yes, you're an imbecile.

errand
11-21-2011, 07:27 PM
I'm having trouble seeing what's positive about Elway's statement.

If you are a Broncos player...that's hardly what you want to hear, when you are trying to battle for the division lead. It can't be a statement that makes Tebow feel good about himself.

Why not, play the middle of the road and say, that he's seen improvement, but he still has a lot of ground to cover. Then, do whatever the hell you want after the games are played.

Pure stupidity on Elway's part in my opinion!

Any takers.....that Elway is back on the podium thrying to explain this one....this week???

If I were Dawkins and Bailey...I'd be in Elway's office....saying, "In case you weren't aware, we're trying to win football games...we don't need this ****!".

Maybe elway is doing his part and pushing Tebow to step up on his passing accuracy? Maybe he's telling Tebow to give him a reason to feel better about not drafting a QB in 2012....

Drek
11-21-2011, 07:29 PM
What is the problem to draft a QB? If Tebow does end up sucking we have someone on board already instead of a journeyman QB who is thinking about retirement. Yeah let's wait till 2013 and then we can wait till at least 2015 to sniff a championship. You wait, I prefer not to.

I'd have a problem with using our 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB, we have other major needs that don't have someone with Tebow's potential there (DT, MLB, #2 CB, TE, additional line depth, additional RB depth, additional WR depth).

But we absolutely should be adding young QBs to the competition. My personal ideal would be grabbing Kellen Moore in the later rounds, signing David Garrard to be a veteran backup, and adding Dan LeFevre as an athletic option if we really go all out with a spread option set up. Tebow starts, the best two out of the other three make the 53 man roster.

CEH
11-21-2011, 07:34 PM
I'd have a problem with using our 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB, we have other major needs that don't have someone with Tebow's potential there (DT, MLB, #2 CB, TE, additional line depth, additional RB depth, additional WR depth).

But we absolutely should be adding young QBs to the competition. My personal ideal would be grabbing Kellen Moore in the later rounds, signing David Garrard to be a veteran backup, and adding Dan LeFevre as an athletic option if we really go all out with a spread option set up. Tebow starts, the best two out of the other three make the 53 man roster.

I'd look at Dennis Dixon from Pittsbugh

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 07:46 PM
If Elway was a competent GM he would be spending every waking moment figuring out how to build around Tebow in a revolutionary way.

Instead it seems the complete opposite.. he is trying to force Tebow to fit his oudated idea of what a QB should be and doing nothing to learn how to adapt to him.

It truly blows my freaking mind how these NFL people get paid so much money to make a paint by number painting..

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 07:50 PM
Tebow threw the ball better last season than he has this season...so evidently McDaniels was onto something....

Either that...or Tebow was only 1 year removed from his college throwing motion whereas in 2011 he's 2 years removed.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:52 PM
Either that...or Tebow was only 1 year removed from his college throwing motion whereas in 2011 he's 2 years removed.

Clearly it is because in 10 he had a SEC WR and in 11 he doesn't.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 07:52 PM
If Tebow was as wimpy as his fans are in response to criticism he'd have folded up long ago.

gunns
11-21-2011, 07:53 PM
If and when we make the playoffs...then start talking about the difference between the team and the title.

There is simply zero reason to be discussing championships right now because the team is so far away that we wouldn't know one way or the other whether or not Tebow would be satisfactory on a championship team three seasons from now.

This team is not one season away from a championship unless Tebow puts them there.

If the Broncos draft a QB, the team is even further away as they'll have to wait for that QB to get up to speed.

Talking about whether or not Tebow can theoretically win a championship is just too abstract to mean anything at this point.

We do know this much: Tebow is the difference between 1-4 and 4-1 with this team.

That's exactly what I was saying. If Tebow is not our QB of the future, something I have no control over, then hopefully we get a backup plan sooner rather than later.

I will give Tebow credit. He can certainly pump everyone up. And he read that defense perfectly at the end and won that game. But sorry, when it's the defense that holds it for the first 55 minutes so that Tebow can perform his miracle I'm going to say they are the catalyst.

Talking about whether or not Tebow can theoretically win a championship is just too abstract to mean anything at this point

Gee, if he's that far away then we better start looking.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 07:54 PM
If Elway was a competent GM he would be spending every waking moment figuring out how to build around Tebow in a revolutionary way.

Instead it seems the complete opposite.. he is trying to force Tebow to fit his oudated idea of what a QB should be and doing nothing to learn how to adapt to him.

It truly blows my freaking mind how these NFL people get paid so much money to make a paint by number painting..

Exactly.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 08:03 PM
People who are more intelligent than you obviously are will be able to see pretty easily that this kind of thing gives an ambiguous answer that will put this stuff in the press because of that ambiguity.

The ambiguity made this a massive thread because it is controversial.

Who cares? Spineless drama queens like you get worked up by stuff like this. Guys like Tim Tebow take it as constructive criticism and work their asses off to do better. The offense didn't do a good enough job for most of the game. They know it and they're going to work to get better. Hopefully they will. How has Elway's comment changed anything? The Broncos FO is still going to make the decisions, Tim Tebow and the Broncos are still going to play, and losers like you are going to keep whining that everything isn't done and said the way you want it. Cry me a river.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 08:09 PM
Maybe elway is doing his part and pushing Tebow to step up on his passing accuracy? Maybe he's telling Tebow to give him a reason to feel better about not drafting a QB in 2012....

I was thinking the same thing.

HAT
11-21-2011, 08:10 PM
If Elway was a competent GM he would be spending every waking moment figuring out how to build around Tebow in a revolutionary way.

Instead it seems the complete opposite.. he is trying to force Tebow to fit his oudated idea of what a QB should be and doing nothing to learn how to adapt to him.

It truly blows my freaking mind how these NFL people get paid so much money to make a paint by number painting..

The problem with that theory is there is only one Tebow. Let's not forget that the NFL is a multi billion dollar industry.

That 'revolutionary' way would affect every single decision on the offensive side of the ball. Coaching staff, RB's, WR's, linemen...Everything.

What happens if the centerpiece blows out his ACL stepping off of a curb next summer? Call up BVP?

You're stuck with an offense built around Tebow's unique skill set and you'd be square pegging somebody into running it. We don't even know if it's sustainable with Tebow himself running it....Much less anybody else.

Lestat
11-21-2011, 08:11 PM
not so sure it's him being unwilling to build around Tebow.
i think it's him looking at the franchise in the landscape of 5-10-15 years in the future is that a viable option to have a spread QB with a team/offense built around that and potentially not having a backup who could continue to run it if Tebow gets hurt for an extended period of time.

because if it works then Elway is a genius and the greatest of all time. if it fails then people call him a moron and the next guy up have to build from revamping the entire offense from top to bottom.
Exactly.

CEH
11-21-2011, 08:12 PM
If Tebow was as wimpy as his fans are in response to criticism he'd have folded up long ago.

Outstanding Post of any Tebow thread.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 08:17 PM
Who cares? Spineless drama queens like you get worked up by stuff like this. Guys like Tim Tebow take it as constructive criticism and work their asses off to do better. The offense didn't do a good enough job for most of the game. They know it and they're going to work to get better. Hopefully they will. How has Elway's comment changed anything? The Broncos FO is still going to make the decisions, Tim Tebow and the Broncos are still going to play, and losers like you are going to keep whining that everything isn't done and said the way you want it. Cry me a river.

Yup.

Boobs McGee
11-21-2011, 08:17 PM
@ you idiots that keep bringing up John's post touchdown celebration:

My goodness some of you are drama queens. The funny part is, John was laughing at you clowns this morning during the interview. His reaction to Tebow scoring on thursday was actually discussed on the radio as one of the questions...it's quite humorous to actually hear Denver radio stations bringing up a bunch of over-analytical Tebow fanatics' rantings. You guys never cease to amaze me. The good news is, everyone outside of thunderdome here seems to be keeping pretty level heads. Retardation isn't contagious apparently.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 08:18 PM
I will give Tebow credit. He can certainly pump everyone up. And he read that defense perfectly at the end and won that game. But sorry, when it's the defense that holds it for the first 55 minutes so that Tebow can perform his miracle I'm going to say they are the catalyst.

Do you see the absurdity in your logic though?

You are giving the Broncos credit for stopping Sanchez.. you are giving the Broncos D more credit than the Jets D for containing Tebow and the run game..

The Jets D deserves more credit than the Broncos D..

Tebow did not turn the ball over like Sanchez did though.. even against a tougher D..

Play2win
11-21-2011, 08:23 PM
Contrast and compare...

as far as time of possesion, tossing out the SD game due to them both playing a half, the broncos averaged about 29 minutes TOP with Orton, and about 31 mintues TOP with Tebow....basically a wash.

However, looking at the defense, the generated 6 turnovers with Orton, and 7 turnovers with Tebow...and in the 4.5 games Orton played, they had 8 sacks....in the 5.5 games Tebow started they generated 19 sacks.

Add in the allowing a TD less per game and it's plain to see that the defense has nothing to do with the Broncos 4-1 run

I guess instead of the word seems, I should have used the word seemingly... Hilarious!

Been busy a lot lately, didn't know it was that close.

The defense is definitely playing lights out, thank in large part to Dennis Allen, Von Miller and Champ Bailey :approve:

I think its the kind of defense a lot of people were getting excited about when they heard Dennis Allen was coming here.

Jay3
11-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Maybe elway is doing his part and pushing Tebow to step up on his passing accuracy? Maybe he's telling Tebow to give him a reason to feel better about not drafting a QB in 2012....

If that were the case, why conduct team business through the media? It's just not done -- if you have something to say to a player, a coach, a member of your organization, you say it to him directly and privately, not through interviews with the media.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 08:27 PM
The problem with that theory is there is only one Tebow. Let's not forget that the NFL is a multi billion dollar industry.

That 'revolutionary' way would affect every single decision on the offensive side of the ball. Coaching staff, RB's, WR's, linemen...Everything.

What happens if the centerpiece blows out his ACL stepping off of a curb next summer? Call up BVP?

You're stuck with an offense built around Tebow's unique skill set and you'd be square pegging somebody into running it. We don't even know if it's sustainable with Tebow himself running it....Much less anybody else.

There is a very very simple way to deal with this..

- Make this a defensive and running team

This way all you have to do is stockpile game managing QBs behind Tebow.

IF Tebow tanked or had some horrible injury you could still march on easily without him and it would be very easy to rebuild the offense and get a new star type QB.

You can build a revolutionary offene around Tebow without putting stars around him or building the offense in a weird way.

What I would do is load the team with runningbacks and especially versatile runningbacks. I would get a lot of wildcat runningbacks that can pass a bit and this way you could play a very physical style and take pressure of Tebow from getting all the punishment.. and these guys would still be just as valuable without Tebow.

Also, having a unique offense is a good thing. Look at how much more successful the Broncos have been with teams not being able to adapt to Tebow.

Look at Michael Jordan, Kobe and Shaq in the NBA with the unique triangle offense..teams could not adapt to it. Look at Tebow in college.. and Urban Meyer.. Look at Bellick who the media says has the most innovative offense in the NFL.. and he does it with role players not stars.

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 08:39 PM
Orton turned the ball over 9 times in 4.5 games. Tebow has turned the ball over 2 times in 5.5 games. I understand that the D is getting more use to Allen's D but the offense has been taking much better care of the ball. No momentum killing Int's or fumbles to kill a drive or end the game.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 08:43 PM
When Elway says:

"Tebow needs to become a pocket passer to win a championship"

What I REALLY think he is saying is:

"Help me jesus.. I need a pocket passer because I don't know how to build around anything else.."

Bronx33
11-21-2011, 09:09 PM
Its clear elway doesn't like christians.

Blueflame
11-21-2011, 09:21 PM
The error in your "logic", MacGruder is this: When a team loses the football game, no credit is given to either their offense or their defense (blame is assigned instead). So Gunns was absolutely correct to give credit to the Broncos' defense instead of the Jets' defense.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 09:21 PM
There is a very very simple way to deal with this..

- Make this a defensive and running team

This way all you have to do is stockpile game managing QBs behind Tebow.

IF Tebow tanked or had some horrible injury you could still march on easily without him and it would be very easy to rebuild the offense and get a new star type QB.

You can build a revolutionary offene around Tebow without putting stars around him or building the offense in a weird way.

What I would do is load the team with runningbacks and especially versatile runningbacks. I would get a lot of wildcat runningbacks that can pass a bit and this way you could play a very physical style and take pressure of Tebow from getting all the punishment.. and these guys would still be just as valuable without Tebow.

Also, having a unique offense is a good thing. Look at how much more successful the Broncos have been with teams not being able to adapt to Tebow.

Look at Michael Jordan, Kobe and Shaq in the NBA with the unique triangle offense..teams could not adapt to it. Look at Tebow in college.. and Urban Meyer.. Look at Bellick who the media says has the most innovative offense in the NFL.. and he does it with role players not stars.

This is what I'd do, too. Commit to a style of play (like "great defense and a team that runs most of the time") and then stockpile role players, especially option RB's and QB's.

Baltimore won its Super Bowl on the strength of a great defense and an unspectacular, clock managing QB in Trent Dilfer. Baltimore thought so little of Dilfer, in fact, that they dumped him *after* the Super Bowl and went after Elvis Grbac!

errand
11-21-2011, 09:24 PM
If that were the case, why conduct team business through the media? It's just not done -- if you have something to say to a player, a coach, a member of your organization, you say it to him directly and privately, not through interviews with the media.

I dunno...Rex Ryan said Sanchez calling a timeout with about 1:24 left vs Pats was the stupidest play in NFL history. Think he got his attention now?

And how do you know that he hasn't already said something to Tebow?

Vine
11-21-2011, 09:33 PM
How the **** can Elway seriously criticize Tebow for not converting 3rd downs when the Broncos basically forfeit every god damn 1st down in an entire game?

****ing crackhead.

errand
11-21-2011, 09:40 PM
Orton turned the ball over 9 times in 4.5 games. Tebow has turned the ball over 2 times in 5.5 games. I understand that the D is getting more use to Allen's D but the offense has been taking much better care of the ball. No momentum killing Int's or fumbles to kill a drive or end the game.

That's true....not turning the ball over is a good thing. But this defense (and ST's too btw)especially in the last game, set our offense up with numerous possesions at or near midfield, and even a few in Jets territory....even tying the game up at 10-10 with a pick six.

For every argument that Tebow's helped the D, someone can present an argument that says the D helps Tebow just as much. the numbers don't lie...this defense has pressured the Qb better since halftime of Chargers game....twice as many sacks, and even more near misses.

I think it has to do with guys like DJ and Doom returning to full health, the players becoming more knowledgable/comfortable with scheme, Miller gaining more experience, thereby generating more respect for his ability to rush QB (read double teamed), allowing the others to get to QB, which means our secondary can play tighter coverage since they don't have to cover their man as long.

This team will continue to win if we can pressure opposing QB's, come up with a few more turnovers, run the ball effectively, and not turn it over.....how irnonic if Tebow wins a Sb this way....then we'd have to put up with how he's nothing but Trent Dilfer II that can run

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 09:40 PM
This is what I'd do, too. Commit to a style of play (like "great defense and a team that runs most of the time") and then stockpile role players, especially option RB's and QB's.

Baltimore won its Super Bowl on the strength of a great defense and an unspectacular, clock managing QB in Trent Dilfer. Baltimore thought so little of Dilfer, in fact, that they dumped him *after* the Super Bowl and went after Elvis Grbac!

And the beauty of this is that Tebow can dominate at least in key situations unlike Dilfer. and Tebow will be much more efficient than Dilfer even if he never developed as a passer. But I am sure he will.

Plus.. Tebow's running ability will make great runners unstoppable and good runners great. I would also get very versatile runners for different ways of attacking defenses.

At Florida Tebow only had small very speedy finesse runners and they were very successful against bad defenses -explosive. But weak against tough defenses. Imagine if you had some guys like them and then you also had a running back like Brandon Jacobs..

If a team tried to stop the option like the Jets did with huge defensive linemen.. you could rely on the speedy backs to attack them on the edges where they couldn't get to them. If it was a soft defensive line you hammer them with the power back..

This would give teams fits...

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 09:53 PM
That's true....not turning the ball over is a good thing. But this defense (and ST's too btw)especially in the last game, set our offense up with numerous possesions at or near midfield, and even a few in Jets territory....even tying the game up at 10-10 with a pick six.

For every argument that Tebow's helped the D, someone can present an argument that says the D helps Tebow just as much. the numbers don't lie...this defense has pressured the Qb better since halftime of Chargers game....twice as many sacks, and even more near misses.

I think it has to do with guys like DJ and Doom returning to full health, the players becoming more knowledgable/comfortable with scheme, Miller gaining more experience, thereby generating more respect for his ability to rush QB (read double teamed), allowing the others to get to QB, which means our secondary can play tighter coverage since they don't have to cover their man as long.

This team will continue to win if we can pressure opposing QB's, come up with a few more turnovers, run the ball effectively, and not turn it over.....how irnonic if Tebow wins a Sb this way....then we'd have to put up with how he's nothing but Trent Dilfer II that can run

I agree. The defense is playing better, getting of the field on 3rd down and creating turnovers. Whats nice is that, rarely does the offense give it right back. I'm not so much against the conservative style of play calling but at least mix it up. PA on first down etc. I know it's an excuse but how is keeping the offense so predicable helping Tebow? I don't think the 3rd down struggles should fall squarely on him. Two FB dives on one offensive series is just stupid play calling. He's not calling the plays.

errand
11-21-2011, 09:55 PM
When Elway says:

"Tebow needs to become a pocket passer to win a championship"

What I REALLY think he is saying is:

"Help me jesus.. I need a pocket passer because I don't know how to build around anything else.."

I think the real reason NFL teams don't run the option is because your QB has to be a strong and superior athlete to be able to run and take the hits.

Having said that, 99% of option teams cannot throw the ball effectively when they're running game gets shut down...

It's one thing to throw the ball when you want to...it's a whole different thing to throw the ball because you have to.....and the opposing defense knows it.

I'll let the teams we beat wonder how we're able to do it...doesn't matter to me WHO beats them, or HOW we beat them...just win baby. hopefully this kid will develop into a more effective NFL passer, but I still have reservations about the long term success of running the option despite it's initial success.

I mean hell, even the run and shoot had some success, throwing the ball 65-70%...but when they needed to run the ball to kill the clock, they struggled mightily to do it.

the Jets showed that you can stop the option by using bigger DL and if we have to have a big play via the passing game, will he be able to deliver it? Right now his stats say it's not even a 50-50 proposition...and that number needs to improve in my opinion

RaiderH8r
11-21-2011, 10:02 PM
All I know is we have taken back to back division road games and beaten the jets at home with a team that was the laughingstock six weeks ago. We beat SD this week would be sweeter than Yoohoo. Just enjoying the ride.

How many wins does this team need to shut people up about drafting or looking for a FA QB to replace Tebow next year? How many wins to put John off of ****ting on Tebow and backing the guy? I have never seen a FO guy make so many snide comments about his own player in the media as John has. I mean hell, did Timmy kick John's dog or something?

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 10:04 PM
I mean hell, did Timmy kick John's dog or something?

No, something much worse than that: Tebow is threatening to kick John's legacy!

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 10:20 PM
=

the Jets showed that you can stop the option by using bigger DL and if we have to have a big play via the passing game, will he be able to deliver it? Right now his stats say it's not even a 50-50 proposition...and that number needs to improve in my opinion

I really don't think so because of Tebow's running ability. Which makes his runner so much better, gives his team an advantage that can't be matched when he runs the ball and opens the vertical passing game.

Plus.. remember.. mcGahee and Moreno were injured.

I also think the Broncos are being way to conservative never passing the ball. You can see when they do play less conservative and throw the ball more you see Tebow's passing improve dramatically. Fox is just concerned with protecting his defense.. and now I am convinced they don't want Tebow to be a good passer.. you don't say the things Fox and Elway are saying publicly if you are trying to develop Tebow. This is all by design.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 10:47 PM
Who cares? Spineless drama queens like you get worked up by stuff like this. Guys like Tim Tebow take it as constructive criticism and work their asses off to do better. The offense didn't do a good enough job for most of the game. They know it and they're going to work to get better. Hopefully they will. How has Elway's comment changed anything? The Broncos FO is still going to make the decisions, Tim Tebow and the Broncos are still going to play, and losers like you are going to keep whining that everything isn't done and said the way you want it. Cry me a river.

There's an easy way for you to avoid this drama.

Don't post in the thread.

There's an easier way for you to avoid being perturbed into petulance by my posts: don't read them.

I know that sounds far fetched and all, but its possible.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 10:52 PM
I'd have a problem with using our 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB, we have other major needs that don't have someone with Tebow's potential there (DT, MLB, #2 CB, TE, additional line depth, additional RB depth, additional WR depth).

But we absolutely should be adding young QBs to the competition. My personal ideal would be grabbing Kellen Moore in the later rounds, signing David Garrard to be a veteran backup, and adding Dan LeFevre as an athletic option if we really go all out with a spread option set up. Tebow starts, the best two out of the other three make the 53 man roster.

I think that you get a veteran guy behind Tebow and pull Weber up from the practice squad.

There really is no need to spend assets on the QB position anymore.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 10:55 PM
You want to hear something funny?

Listen to the way Elway talks about Von Miller in the Vic and Gary interview today and then compare that to how he talks about Tebow..

It's like total opposite.. he says "we are just scratching the surface" with Von.. but with Tebow it's nowhere near as glowing..

Is this because Von was Elway's pick and it's an ego thing? Or is it because he has always thought Tebow wasn't a QB?

Boobs McGee
11-21-2011, 11:00 PM
Maybe it's because the GOAT doesn't see great things for Timmay. Or maybe he's sick of talking about it and is RELIEVED that someone asked him a question that didn't pertain to our qb situation. But I'm sure you'll go with the former.

Blueflame
11-21-2011, 11:03 PM
Anything Elway says... or fails to say... to the media is like he just literally poured a cup of sand down the back of MacGruder's Hanes... :P

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 11:04 PM
Man I wish Timmy would just go out and rape some women or kill a few dogs so everybody would just give him a chance.

We are winning games, why would you want to screw with that ?

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 11:05 PM
You want to hear something funny?

Listen to the way Elway talks about Von Miller in the Vic and Gary interview today and then compare that to how he talks about Tebow..

It's like total opposite.. he says "we are just scratching the surface" with Von.. but with Tebow it's nowhere near as glowing..

Is this because Von was Elway's pick and it's an ego thing? Or is it because he has always thought Tebow wasn't a QB?

Elway ALWAYS takes pains to say that "Tim Tebow is a football player, first and foremost." [with the emphasis on *football*] It's as if he's preparing us for the day when he converts him to a fullback.

I don't recall him qualifying other players on the team this way.

Inkana7
11-21-2011, 11:05 PM
You want to hear something funny?

Listen to the way Elway talks about Von Miller in the Vic and Gary interview today and then compare that to how he talks about Tebow..

It's like total opposite.. he says "we are just scratching the surface" with Von.. but with Tebow it's nowhere near as glowing..

Is this because Von was Elway's pick and it's an ego thing? Or is it because he has always thought Tebow wasn't a QB?

Because Von Miller is amazing and Tim Tebow can't complete half his passes and leads an offense that goes 3 and out on almost half of its possessions.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 11:07 PM
Anything Elway says... or fails to say... to the media is like he just literally poured a cup of sand down the back of MacGruder's Hanes... :P

You act that way every time I am proven right about Tebow.. lol

Elway too..

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 11:09 PM
Elway apparently has never learned the fine art of bull****ting when talking to the media. There's a technique for doing this without having to commit yourself to anything or saying something utterly stupid or that might be misconstrued.

Shanny was actually pretty good at this. After a 2-game losing streak, someone would ask him if he thought the QB or the defense was letting him down. He'd say this:

"Look: if we just go out there and play well on offense, defense, and special teams, good things will happen."

Total BS answer that says absolutely nothing, but can't possibly be misunderstood.

epicSocialism4tw
11-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Maybe it's because the GOAT doesn't see great things for Timmay. Or maybe he's sick of talking about it and is RELIEVED that someone asked him a question that didn't pertain to our qb situation. But I'm sure you'll go with the former.

Elway has to be aware enough to know that he's going to get Tebow questions every time that he sits in front of a media member.

I think that he's going out of his way to let everyone in the league know that he isn't all in with Tebow because he wants to protect his reputation.

But I don't know if Elway fully understands what has basically fallen in his lap with Tebow.

He has the best money maker in the NFL in Tebow. The Broncos were not in a position to make any ground in the NFL this season anyway. What Elway should have done was to have started the season off with Tebow and promoted the heck out of him as an oddity and a curiosity. All he has to say is "we want to see what Tebow has as an NFL QB" and all Broncos fans and beyond would have understood completely. Then he just had to say "Tim's a lot of fun to watch" and nothing else. Then he and his people could evaluate the situation at the end of the year and make decisions in private like most management teams do.

But you have to wonder if Elway isn't just trying to protect his reputation here at the expense of his starting QB, which really strikes people as odd considering that he himself was that QB at one time.

The only rationale that I can see is that he's just trying to put pressure on Tebow because he believes that Tebow functions better under pressure...because if Elway is doing this for any other reason, then he's doing the Broncos a disservice.

Blueflame
11-21-2011, 11:15 PM
I don't think your wild conspiracy theories about Elway and Fox intentionally sabotaging Tebow's career have "been proven right"... or ever will be. There is no plausible motivation for either of them to do such a thing and in fact, it would be against their own best interests. Coaching jobs are only retained through winning football games and intentionally losing would be a very risky strategy indeed for Fox.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 11:21 PM
It's funny though because on one hand you hear people saying the defense is winning the games then you see people saying Tebow can't bring them back if they are down big points.. they haven't been down big points except to the Lions... so they are using one game to make their entire argument. And Tebow has shown explosive scoring capability when he needs to.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 11:25 PM
I don't think your wild conspiracy theories about Elway and Fox intentionally sabotaging Tebow's career have "been proven right"... or ever will be. There is no plausible motivation for either of them to do such a thing and in fact, it would be against their own best interests. Coaching jobs are only retained through winning football games and intentionally losing would be a very risky strategy indeed for Fox.

In this scenario, Fox isn't trying to lose. He's just putting obstacles in the way of letting Tebow be Tebow. The fans forced the issue after the 1-4 start, but EFX had already made up its collective mind to go in another direction. They're already planning on a rebuilding period that will begin *next* year, after they draft their dream QB.

So this year is a wash, and every win only makes it harder to draft one of the "sure thing" QB's they have their eyes on. They'll "try" to win publicly, but they'll also hamstring Tebow as much as possible by only giving him 8 throws per game and then criticizing his 3rd down and completion percentage numbers at every opportunity.

The unanticipated problem is that even with one hand tied behind his back, Tebow is still winning games he was expected to lose.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 11:28 PM
I don't think your wild conspiracy theories about Elway and Fox intentionally sabotaging Tebow's career have "been proven right"... or ever will be.

If you aren't blind they already have... there is no other explanation for their behavior. Contrast what they are doing with Tebow to what the panthers have done with Cam.. it's night and day..

There is no plausible motivation for either of them to do such a thing and in fact, it would be against their own best interests. Coaching jobs are only retained through winning football games and intentionally losing would be a very risky strategy indeed for Fox.

They are putting Tebow in a position where he can't possibly succeed as a passer. They won't let him pass.. they took away his best receivers.. when Orton failed in a better position they blamed everyone else but him.

They put Tebow in literally the worst situation imaginable and all they ever talk about is him needing to get better, not being a QB and being screwed in a normal offense.

What more do you need to prove to you what is going on?

The reason they have to do this is because they are not capable of adapting to Tebow... so they aren't even trying. But you never hear them talking about them lacking ability to adapt to Tebow..

Also.. if Fox let's Tebow play it would affect his defense.. then if Tebow plays well and the team loses he will be blamed. fox is protecting himself at the expense of the future of the team..

Look at the Panthers. they are doing the opposite.. Cam is not getting blamed and everyone else is.. including their new coach. They already want him fired because he is causing Cam to lose according to them.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 11:29 PM
Anything Elway says... or fails to say... to the media is like he just literally poured a cup of sand down the back of MacGruder's Hanes... :P

Hanes? No, it's panties.

Blueflame
11-21-2011, 11:35 PM
In this scenario, Fox isn't trying to lose. He's just putting obstacles in the way of letting Tebow be Tebow. The fans forced the issue after the 1-4 start, but EFX had already made up its collective mind to go in another direction. They're already planning on a rebuilding period that will begin *next* year, after they draft their dream QB.

So this year is a wash, and every win only makes it harder to draft one of the "sure thing" QB's they have their eyes on. They'll "try" to win publicly, but they'll also hamstring Tebow as much as possible by only giving him 8 throws per game and then criticizing his 3rd down and completion percentage numbers at every opportunity.

The unanticipated problem is that even with one hand tied behind his back, Tebow is still winning games he was expected to lose.

If one wants to point toward coaching as being responsible for "handicapping" Tebow, then they should be pointing toward every coach he's had in the past... who failed to insist that he learn proper QB mechanics and footwork. Had they done this, it would be second nature to him now.

And no NFL coach has the luxury of affording to perceive any given year as a "wash"... every lost game counts heavily to the fans and to the owner, whose bottom line will suffer. No every game matters and it's in Fox's best interests to try to help Tebow... and in reality, every player on the field... succeed.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 11:41 PM
If one wants to point toward coaching as being responsible for "handicapping" Tebow, then they should be pointing toward every coach he's had in the past... who failed to insist that he learn proper QB mechanics and footwork. Had they done this, it would be second nature to him now.

And no NFL coach has the luxury of affording to perceive any given year as a "wash"... every lost game counts heavily to the fans and to the owner, whose bottom line will suffer. No every game matters and it's in Fox's best interests to try to help Tebow... and in reality, every player on the field... succeed.

And yet Tebow is outplaying the veteran Orton and many other NFL Qbs with horrible coaching..

Playing Orton over Tebow this season may have cost this team a chance at the playoffs..

The Bronco Brain trust didn't even play Tebow WITH Orton.. they could have won just doing that.

How can these people not be blamed when they make such obvious blunders? who could be so stupid they didn't play Tebow in pivotal situations seeing how dominant he is at times.. and now we are seeing the same thing with them not using his abilities all game.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 11:43 PM
Hanes? No, it's panties.

You're projecting..

Quoydogs
11-21-2011, 11:43 PM
If one wants to point toward coaching as being responsible for "handicapping" Tebow, then they should be pointing toward every coach he's had in the past... who failed to insist that he learn proper QB mechanics and footwork. Had they done this, it would be second nature to him now.

And no NFL coach has the luxury of affording to perceive any given year as a "wash"... every lost game counts heavily to the fans and to the owner, whose bottom line will suffer. No every game matters and it's in Fox's best interests to try to help Tebow... and in reality, every player on the field... succeed.

The problem with this is the Mane has already determined that Fans don't matter.

Armchair Bronco
11-21-2011, 11:45 PM
Well, what do I know? I'm just commenting from the relative safety of my armchair.

But I'm with MacGruder and Skip Bayless on this one. Fox and Elway are talking the talk about adopting to Tebow, but they're not walking the walk. McCoy's game plans are utterly predictable (except for our initial drives and, of course, Tebow Time). And all the things that worked in college, like 5 receiver sets and an up-tempo pace with option runs combined with rollouts to the left, are deliberately not being used until the last 5 minutes of the game.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 11:45 PM
Anything Elway says... or fails to say... to the media is like he just literally poured a cup of sand down the back of MacGruder's Hanes... :P

That would then free up the front of MacGruder's Hanes so it can be pulled down while he gets some action with his Blow Up Tebow doll.

Blueflame
11-21-2011, 11:48 PM
Your speculation isn't "proof", MacGruder.

As for the WRs... how can it be Fox's fault that Brandon Lloyd wanted to be traded? And what good would it have done to deny his trade request and force him to stay? Do you really believe keeping him... with an attitude... would have yielded better results? Decker arguably is better anyway, having practiced for 2 years with Tebow.

And Fox has completely changed the offense for Tebow, so that argument doesn't hold water either.

Carolina/Cam Newton are irrelevant to EFX/Tebow.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 11:53 PM
I don't think your wild conspiracy theories about Elway and Fox intentionally sabotaging Tebow's career have "been proven right"... or ever will be. There is no plausible motivation for either of them to do such a thing and in fact, it would be against their own best interests. Coaching jobs are only retained through winning football games and intentionally losing would be a very risky strategy indeed for Fox.

Nice statement, but your argument just bounces right off of the coconut.

Blueflame
11-21-2011, 11:55 PM
The problem with this is the Mane has already determined that Fans don't matter.

Like any sports team owner though... Pat does want the fans' money... and he gets more of it when the team is winning games. :)

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 11:56 PM
Your speculation isn't "proof", MacGruder.

As for the WRs... how can it be Fox's fault that Brandon Lloyd wanted to be traded? And what good would it have done to deny his trade request and force him to stay? Do you really believe keeping him... with an attitude... would have yielded better results? Decker arguably is better anyway, having practiced for 2 years with Tebow.

That's fine.. but don't apologize for Orton when he is losing games then trash Tebow when he is winning games and has capabilities Orton doesn't. All Orton could do in this offense with tons of experience and prep was turn the ball over. Tebow isn't doing that and has athleticism Orton didn't. If they get the offense better and let him pass he could be productive as a passer too.

And Fox has completely changed the offense for Tebow, so that argument doesn't hold water either.


Yes it does because all they changed was the running game.. and because this helps HIS defense...

Carolina/Cam Newton are irrelevant to EFX/Tebow.

You don't sabotage a player you want to succeed. Watching Cam shows how teams treat a player they want to succeed... The Broncos handling of Tebow shows the opposite. As well as their public comments..

Why hasn't Elway worked with Tebow at all? That answer right there should tell you all you need to know. he spends his time scouting players but not developing a first round QB they have? They did nothing to help him develop in the off season either and then blamed him for not being more prepared.. again.. the complete opposite with Cam.

Blueflame
11-22-2011, 12:02 AM
Orton is also irrelevant unless you want to critique how he holds the clipboard.

If the running game is working... then you keep running the ball.

Elway isn't paid to be the QB coach; they have a guy who is and Elway isn't going to step on that guy's toes or undermine him. And it would have been a violation of league rules if they'd done anything with Tebow... or any other players in the offseason (during the lockout).

MacGruder
11-22-2011, 12:19 AM
Orton is also irrelevant unless you want to critique how he holds the clipboard.

You said Tebow wasn't trained properly.. obviously he was because he is outplaying a QB many said was a quality starter in Orton. The same Orton that couldn't win under Fox and company.. And when he failed the Bronco Brain trust blamed the rest of the team..

If the running game is working... then you keep running the ball.

The running game hasn't always played well.. and when they don't Tebow is blamed.. even though they haven't let him pass the ball consistently. Which also hurts the run game because teams know they are going to run it...

Elway isn't paid to be the QB coach; they have a guy who is and Elway isn't going to step on that guy's toes or undermine him.

What is the "guys" track record? The Bronco Brain trust put him in charge of developing Tebow and Tebow has been worse since last season.. that is on the brain trust especially since Tebow busts his but trying to do what he is told. And that especially falls on Elway since he should be the guy in charge of that development.

And it would have been a violation of league rules if they'd done anything with Tebow... or any other players in the offseason (during the lockout).

It's only a violation if they were to do it during the lockout. They could have made the proper arrangements before the lockout. This is what the Panthers did with Cam.

Blueflame
11-22-2011, 12:48 AM
It isn't "just" me who thinks Tebow needs to improve his QB mechanics and footwork. But the fact that Kyle Orton is... and has always been... a mediocre QB is completely unrelated to Tebow.

The key here is for Tebow (and the WRs) to complete a higher percentage of the pass plays that are called. The coaches will go back to the plays that are working.

Let's get this straight... Elway is paid to do one job (front office executive), yet you're saying he's responsible for a different job that another guy is paid to do? That's not the way it works. It's up to the coaches to do the coaching. Gase, McCoy, and Fox... in that order... are responsible for QB development.

Y'know... Tebow himself could have hired a QB coach during the offseason.

MacGruder
11-22-2011, 01:18 AM
It isn't "just" me who thinks Tebow needs to improve his QB mechanics and footwork. But the fact that Kyle Orton is... and has always been... a mediocre QB is completely unrelated to Tebow.

Why does he though... he's winning. Maybe they shouldn't mess with him since he is outperforming someone in Orton that did have polished mechanics and turned the ball over constantly.. You are just spouting out what others spout with no basis for it..

The key here is for Tebow (and the WRs) to complete a higher percentage of the pass plays that are called. The coaches will go back to the plays that are working.

Orton under achieved in Fox's methodical system. When is the blame going to be put where it belongs? Fox was fired because he couldn't develop Clausen and probably ruined his confidence too in the same terrible offensive system..

Let's get this straight... Elway is paid to do one job (front office executive), yet you're saying he's responsible for a different job that another guy is paid to do? That's not the way it works. It's up to the coaches to do the coaching. Gase, McCoy, and Fox... in that order... are responsible for QB development.

Sure he is responsible.. what do you think they get paid for? Doe she have to develop Tebow himself? No,.. but he is responsible. he has said that himself.. it's their job to make him a great QB. They are failing according to their own terms. Why should thehe be responsible for choosing a QB when he has made all the Qbs on the roster worse not better?

Y'know... Tebow himself could have hired a QB coach during the offseason.

He's part owner of a QB training facility. He is doing his part.. maybe his coaches should have pulled the reins back on him rather than allowing him to be over coached.. but that;s not their responsibility.. right.. Tebow is supposed to coach himself.. lol Call his own plays too..

Blueflame
11-22-2011, 01:36 AM
If he wants to improve his game at the NFL level, he needs skills like proper QB mechanics and footwork. It's simple, MacGruder... the only possible result that can happen from working on improving his mechanics and footwork is: he becomes a better quarterback. So it's in his best interests to do it.

Orton was struggling in McDaniels' offensive system too. It's because Orton is mediocre.

It's Gase's job to coach Tebow (and Orton, Quinn and Weber). It's McCoy's job to ensure that Gase coaches the QBs correctly. And it's Fox's job to ensure that McCoy is ensuring that Gase is coaching the QBs correctly. Elway is not with the team in a coaching capacity.

If he truly were "doing his part" as you assert that he did... then why did he show up at training camp looking like he "regressed" from the previous season?

So now Tebow is "overcoached"? ??? No. His previous coaches failed to make sure he had the proper tools to achieve the most success at the "next level" (the NFL).

MacGruder
11-22-2011, 01:57 AM
If he wants to improve his game at the NFL level, he needs skills like proper QB mechanics and footwork. It's simple, MacGruder... the only possible result that can happen from working on improving his mechanics and footwork is: he becomes a better quarterback. So it's in his best interests to do it.

That's not what joe Montana and Jim Harbaugh said. Harbaugh's record developing Qbs is much better than Fox's or Elway's

Orton was struggling in McDaniels' offensive system too. It's because Orton is mediocre.

Orton was much better in McD's system than he was Fox's,, who Elway hired. Fox was a worse coach than McD last season too. And the offensehe left has looked much better without him.

It's Gase's job to coach Tebow (and Orton, Quinn and Weber). It's McCoy's job to ensure that Gase coaches the QBs correctly. And it's Fox's job to ensure that McCoy is ensuring that Gase is coaching the QBs correctly. Elway is not with the team in a coaching capacity.

What capacity is elway with the team for? What does his experience say he provides? Why is he scouting QBsfor an NFL franchise..?

If he truly were "doing his part" as you assert that he did... then why did he show up at training camp looking like he "regressed" from the previous season?

As I have said before.. Tebow is known to be the type you need to pull the reigns back on.. not kick in the butt. Which is why Elway and Fox playing hard ball if it is a motivational technique could be doing more damage than good.

But still regressed Tebow is outplaying Orton.. this shows again how incompetent the BBT was for playng Orton over Tebow. They have shown they don't know how to evaluate players they have in camp.. let alone players in college etc.

So now Tebow is "overcoached"? ??? No. His previous coaches failed to make sure he had the proper tools to achieve the most success at the "next level" (the NFL).

He's beating NFL QBs.. and top defenses.. and people said he had worse fundamentals than them.. this shows over coached=poorly coached.

Blueflame
11-22-2011, 03:27 AM
I don't think either Montana or Harbaugh would disagree with the statement that improved mechanics and footwork would make Tebow a better quarterback. And if they did contradict it, please provide a quote or linkage to where they said it.

No, Orton was mediocre at best throughout his career. He was not significantly better in McDaniels' system (particularly in the 2010 season) than in Fox's. One win in 4 games... extrapolated out to a 16-game season would equal... 4-12. "The offense he left" does not really look dominant or intimidating even though they are finding ways to win.

Elway's role with the team seems to be primarily in PR and in player evaluation/scouting/draft prep. (not coaching).

EFX telling Tebow exactly what they want from him is a good thing, MacGruder. And they'll either get him to play the way they want him to play or they'll get someone else who will.

As for player evaluation, I believe we got more value from the single EFX draft (2011) than from both McDaniels drafts (2009 and 2010...and that's sad considering how many extra picks McDaniels got from the Cutler/Marshall trades).

Well, again... EFX has not stuttered about what they want/expect from the QB position. Tebow will ultimately do it their way or he'll do it his own way somewhere else.

ol#7
11-22-2011, 03:54 AM
Elway has continually made head scratching and infuriating comments. He and Fox practically called the fanbase stupid for wanting Tebow to play early in the year, and now that he is in having success, he will be damned if he says anything that would contradict his earlier stance. Jesus they need a PR guy to coach up the FO in the worst way!

Also, if your going to use historical examples to make a point in a thread, fact check first! Elway was INJURED against the Bills, after the game it was reported it was so severe that he couldnt have played in the SB had Denver won. Johnny Unitas REPLACED an ineffective Earl Morrall in SB 3 after Morrall missed a wide open WR and threw a pic, not the other way around. FYI, Morrall had a career year after Unitas was injured in the pre-season that year and was the starter in that SB. In SBV Morral replaced an INJURED Unitas against the Cowboys.

As to the rotating QB's, there is a reason Fox didnt want to do it to Orton in the red zone. It has proven not to work over time as it messes up the offenses rythm. Didnt work in Dallas with Stauback/Morton or Hogeboom/White, didnt work in Denver with Moore/Maddox. The only thing you could do would be limited to the red zone, but that would just be a few package plays with Tebow with Orton being the starter. What sense would that make?

go_broncos
11-22-2011, 06:37 AM
It would have been nice if Elway criticized Orton when he was 1-4.
This is the reason Tebow never thanks Elway or Fox in his press conference.
They want Tebow to fail..

tsiguy96
11-22-2011, 06:43 AM
It would have been nice if Elway criticized Orton when he was 1-4.
This is the reason Tebow never thanks Elway or Fox in his press conference.
They want Tebow to fail..


funny you bring this up, because its pretty true it seems. when orton was 1-4 they went out of there way to support him because he gives them hte best chance to win, now that tebow is 4-1 they are criticizing him (and its true, but still).

CEH
11-22-2011, 06:46 AM
funny you bring this up, because its pretty true it seems. when orton was 1-4 they went out of there way to support him because he gives them hte best chance to win, now that tebow is 4-1 they are criticizing him (and its true, but still).

They really is Elway. Fox has been very complementary of Tebow at this point and after every game. Fox says the race is not over and I see tremendous improvement

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-22-2011, 07:09 AM
Elway has continually made head scratching and infuriating comments. He and Fox practically called the fanbase stupid for wanting Tebow to play early in the year, and now that he is in having success, he will be damned if he says anything that would contradict his earlier stance. Jesus they need a PR guy to coach up the FO in the worst way!

Also, if your going to use historical examples to make a point in a thread, fact check first! Elway was INJURED against the Bills, after the game it was reported it was so severe that he couldnt have played in the SB had Denver won. Johnny Unitas REPLACED an ineffective Earl Morrall in SB 3 after Morrall missed a wide open WR and threw a pic, not the other way around. FYI, Morrall had a career year after Unitas was injured in the pre-season that year and was the starter in that SB. In SBV Morral replaced an INJURED Unitas against the Cowboys.

As to the rotating QB's, there is a reason Fox didnt want to do it to Orton in the red zone. It has proven not to work over time as it messes up the offenses rythm. Didnt work in Dallas with Stauback/Morton or Hogeboom/White, didnt work in Denver with Moore/Maddox. The only thing you could do would be limited to the red zone, but that would just be a few package plays with Tebow with Orton being the starter. What sense would that make?

Just STOP with this "they need to hire a PR firm to teach the FO to unwad my panties" bull****. My god, the front office isn't there to make YOU happy. That's not their job. Their job is to field a competitive team, which they're doing right now, and you're worried about what the **** Elway SAYS?

Vic & Gary: "John, is Tim Tebow a Hall of Fame quarterback right now?"
John: (Laughs) "No, I don't think so."
Ol'#7: "WHAT?!????? I AM OUTRAGED! SOMEONE SHOULD TEACH HIM TO TALK TO THE MEDIA SO I DON'T GET SO MAD!!!!!!! GRRRRRR!"

****ing retarded.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-22-2011, 07:10 AM
funny you bring this up, because its pretty true it seems. when orton was 1-4 they went out of there way to support him because he gives them hte best chance to win, now that tebow is 4-1 they are criticizing him (and its true, but still).

Really? He said Orton was week to week.

Look at all that support!

I swear, you guys only hear and read what you want to hear and read, and you CONSTANTLY want Tim to be the victim of some grand plot to undermine him.

jhns
11-22-2011, 07:19 AM
Really? He said Orton was week to week.

Look at all that support!

I swear, you guys only hear and read what you want to hear and read, and you CONSTANTLY want Tim to be the victim of some grand plot to undermine him.

When?

oubronco
11-22-2011, 07:27 AM
Just STOP with this "they need to hire a PR firm to teach the FO to unwad my panties" bull****. My god, the front office isn't there to make YOU happy. That's not their job. Their job is to field a competitive team, which they're doing right now, and you're worried about what the **** Elway SAYS?

Vic & Gary: "John, is Tim Tebow a Hall of Fame quarterback right now?"
John: (Laughs) "No, I don't think so."
Ol'#7: "WHAT?!????? I AM OUTRAGED! SOMEONE SHOULD TEACH HIM TO TALK TO THE MEDIA SO I DON'T GET SO MAD!!!!!!! GRRRRRR!"

****ing retarded.

LOL

KO5K
11-22-2011, 07:28 AM
****ing retarded.

Not as retarded as the idea of bring Orton back into the game.

jhns
11-22-2011, 07:32 AM
Not as retarded as the idea of bring Orton back into the game.

Or throwing games by starting him the first five weeks.

Or lying to try having some kind of point, moose...

TonyR
11-22-2011, 07:37 AM
Because Von Miller is amazing and Tim Tebow can't complete half his passes and leads an offense that goes 3 and out on almost half of its possessions.

Pretty much. The offense scored only 10 points, went 3/14 on 3rd and 4th down, and had 11 total 1st downs and 229 total yards, and yet Elway is somehow out of line saying they need to get get better. Come on, people. Tebow was great on that last drive but he has to massively improve in order to be the long term answer at the QB position. Sure Elway could be more diplomatic but is it really that big of a deal? Did you ever consider that perhaps Elway is doing this intentionally to motivate Tebow? This is the approach Parcells used. Soft approach in tough times and hard approach when things are going well. Elway wants Timmy T to know that he has high expectations for him and the position and that he wants constant improvement. And, as I said before, I bet Tebow agrees and understands and isn't taking this nearly as hard as some of the mentally weak and hyperbolic fans seem to be.

jhns
11-22-2011, 07:41 AM
Pretty much. The offense scored only 10 points, went 3/14 on 3rd and 4th down, and had 11 total 1st downs and 229 total yards, and yet Elway is somehow out of line saying they need to get get better. Come on, people. Tebow was great on that last drive but he has to massively improve in order to be the long term answer at the QB position. Sure Elway could be more diplomatic but is it really that big of a deal? Did you ever consider that perhaps Elway is doing this intentionally to motivate Tebow? This is the approach Parcells used. Soft approach in tough times and hard approach when things are going well. Elway wants Timmy T to know that he has high expectations for him and the position and that he wants constant improvement. And, as I said before, I bet Tebow agrees and understands and isn't taking this nearly as hard as some of the mentally weak and hyperbolic fans seem to be.

1-4 to 4-1

It has nothing to do with Tebow!

Sorry, that is retarded. You support 1-4 and then refuse to support 4-1. Again, retarded.

At least Fox gets behind the guy helping his team win. The McDaniels approach hasn't exactly worked out well for this organization.

Kaylore
11-22-2011, 07:46 AM
It would have been nice if Elway criticized Orton when he was 1-4.
This is the reason Tebow never thanks Elway or Fox in his press conference.
They want Tebow to fail..

::) Yeah I'm sure this is true. After tapping him as the starter, completely overhauling the offense and sending him to a specialist to resolve his throwing mechanics, they do have a funny way of helping him onto the fail boat.

Ray Finkle
11-22-2011, 07:46 AM
::) Yeah I'm sure this is true. After tapping him as the starter, completely overhauling the offense and sending him to a specialist to resolve his throwing mechanics, they do have a funny way of helping him onto the fail boat.

they sent him to a specialist?

ol#7
11-22-2011, 07:48 AM
Just STOP with this "they need to hire a PR firm to teach the FO to unwad my panties" bull****. My god, the front office isn't there to make YOU happy. That's not their job. Their job is to field a competitive team, which they're doing right now, and you're worried about what the **** Elway SAYS?

Vic & Gary: "John, is Tim Tebow a Hall of Fame quarterback right now?"
John: (Laughs) "No, I don't think so."
Ol'#7: "WHAT?!????? I AM OUTRAGED! SOMEONE SHOULD TEACH HIM TO TALK TO THE MEDIA SO I DON'T GET SO MAD!!!!!!! GRRRRRR!"

****ing retarded.

Yes, they are there to make the fans happy. Without paying customers they would go out of business. This FO has continually mocked the fans at every turn. I am frustrated that they should be able to handle these questions more diplomatically...like practically every other team.

No retard, my panites are not in a bunch, I would never treat the mother of the ElusiveKyleOrtons panties in such a way. They are neatly folded.

KO5K
11-22-2011, 07:48 AM
Pretty much. The offense scored only 10 points, went 3/14 on 3rd and 4th down, and had 11 total 1st downs and 229 total yards, and yet Elway is somehow out of line saying they need to get get better.

If you look at the situational stats, Elway calling out Tebow on third down is not warranted.

Tebow has attempted 8 passes on 3D < 6 compared to 26 on 3D 6+ in over 5 games.
Compared to Orton who attempted 17 passes on 3D < 6 compared to 26 on 3D 6+.

When Tebow is constantly put in third and long, don't expect to convert many of them. So for Elway to then call him out on it is unfair in my opinion, especially as we often run it on third down anyway.

Play2win
11-22-2011, 07:49 AM
Anything Elway says... or fails to say... to the media is like he just literally poured a cup of sand down the back of MacGruder's Hanes... :P

I think part of this is Elway just being the marketing guy. Any news is good news, trying to extent the conversation and generate chatter.

KO5K
11-22-2011, 07:50 AM
::) Yeah I'm sure this is true. After tapping him as the starter, completely overhauling the offense and sending him to a specialist to resolve his throwing mechanics, they do have a funny way of helping him onto the fail boat.

Adam Gase? The WR specialist?

JK, kinda.

oubronco
11-22-2011, 07:52 AM
1-4 to 4-1

It has nothing to do with Tebow!

Sorry, that is retarded. You support 1-4 and then refuse to support 4-1. Again, retarded.

At least Fox gets behind the guy helping his team win. The McDaniels approach hasn't exactly worked out well for this organization.

Here read this

http://www.gazette.com/sports/ugly-128790-winning-defends.html

Lost in all the hoopla over Tim Tebow and his recent success is the performance of Denver's dominant defense over the last month.

The Broncos have been able to keep it close so that their unconventional quarterback can orchestrate all those comebacks.

edog24
11-22-2011, 07:54 AM
Pretty much. The offense scored only 10 points, went 3/14 on 3rd and 4th down, and had 11 total 1st downs and 229 total yards, and yet Elway is somehow out of line saying they need to get get better. Come on, people. Tebow was great on that last drive but he has to massively improve in order to be the long term answer at the QB position. Sure Elway could be more diplomatic but is it really that big of a deal? Did you ever consider that perhaps Elway is doing this intentionally to motivate Tebow? This is the approach Parcells used. Soft approach in tough times and hard approach when things are going well. Elway wants Timmy T to know that he has high expectations for him and the position and that he wants constant improvement. And, as I said before, I bet Tebow agrees and understands and isn't taking this nearly as hard as some of the mentally weak and hyperbolic fans seem to be.

If you are right then it's working great and I want him to keep doing it. I guess we won't know either way until the season is over and it's draft day.

ol#7
11-22-2011, 07:56 AM
Here read this

http://www.gazette.com/sports/ugly-128790-winning-defends.html

Lost in all the hoopla over Tim Tebow and his recent success is the performance of Denver's dominant defense over the last month.

The Broncos have been able to keep it close so that their unconventional quarterback can orchestrate all those comebacks.

Ignoring the fact that this is how Mr. Elway had of early success as well, especially with Reeves as HC...Our Punter has been pretty damn important as well. Makes a huge difference for the Defense when the team is pinned deep. Colquitt deserves a pro-bowl nod this season.

TonyR
11-22-2011, 07:56 AM
1-4 to 4-1

It has nothing to do with Tebow!

Sorry, that is retarded. You support 1-4 and then refuse to support 4-1. Again, retarded.

How does this remotely refute, or even respond to for that matter, what I posted? Your "1-4 to 4-1" argument doesn't preclude the need for Tebow and the offense to keep improving. Are you advocating complacency? And where did I say "it has nothing to do with Tebow"? And when/where didn't I support Tebow or the improvement the team has shown? In other words, what the f*** are you even talking about? Your over the top reaction to anything remotely resembling criticism of Tebow is ridiculous. And please stop referencing Orton and McDaniels. They are no longe relevant to the discussion.

jhns
11-22-2011, 07:58 AM
Here read this

http://www.gazette.com/sports/ugly-128790-winning-defends.html

Lost in all the hoopla over Tim Tebow and his recent success is the performance of Denver's dominant defense over the last month.

The Broncos have been able to keep it close so that their unconventional quarterback can orchestrate all those comebacks.

The defense has played well. It is the same defense Orton had. The difference is we don't have a QB making it impossible for the defense to be good. He also scores when needed, and whenever they open up the offense for him. The running game has produced in every game Tebow has played. Clutch + ball control + running well = always has been successful in this league. It amazes me how surprising this is to so many.

1-4 to 4-1. One player change was made. The record speaks for itself. I think many should realize how little they understand this sport when they claim Tebow isn't the difference.

WolfpackGuy
11-22-2011, 07:58 AM
1-4 to 4-1

It has nothing to do with Tebow!

Sorry, that is retarded. You support 1-4 and then refuse to support 4-1. Again, retarded.

At least Fox gets behind the guy helping his team win. The McDaniels approach hasn't exactly worked out well for this organization.

Or the Rams offense for that matter.

BroncoBeavis
11-22-2011, 08:00 AM
Ignoring the fact that this is how Mr. Elway had of early success as well, especially with Reeves as HC...Our Punter has been pretty damn important as well. Makes a huge difference for the Defense when the team is pinned deep. Colquitt deserves a pro-bowl nod this season.

You can't use the punter after an INT though. Tebow's biggest contribution to the team has been taking care of the ball. As a defense, having your QB put you in 2-3 ****ty situations per game makes it tough.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:01 AM
How does this remotely refute, or even respond to for that matter, what I posted? Your "1-4 to 4-1" argument doesn't preclude the need for Tebow and the offense to keep improving. Are you advocating complacency? And where did I say "it has nothing to do with Tebow"? And when/where didn't I support Tebow or the improvement the team has shown? In other words, what the **** are you even talking about? Your over the top reaction to anything remotely resembling criticism of Tebow is ridiculous. And please stop referencing Orton and McDaniels. They are no longe relevant to the discussion.

When you claim the McDaniels way is a good way, it is relevant. You continually try to take credit away from Tebow. You then get all defensive when that is pointed out. You still have yet to say anything positive about the player that turned this franchises season around.


Cry more clown.

ol#7
11-22-2011, 08:04 AM
You can't use the punter after an INT though. Tebow's biggest contribution to the team has been taking care of the ball. As a defense, having your QB put you in 2-3 ****ty situations per game makes it tough.

Absolutely. Part of the strategy that has worked the past few weeks has been the field position game. This works even better when your punter can pin a team inside the 20 instead of launching it into the endzone for a touchback.

maher_tyler
11-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Pretty much. The offense scored only 10 points, went 3/14 on 3rd and 4th down, and had 11 total 1st downs and 229 total yards, and yet Elway is somehow out of line saying they need to get get better. Come on, people. Tebow was great on that last drive but he has to massively improve in order to be the long term answer at the QB position. Sure Elway could be more diplomatic but is it really that big of a deal? Did you ever consider that perhaps Elway is doing this intentionally to motivate Tebow? This is the approach Parcells used. Soft approach in tough times and hard approach when things are going well. Elway wants Timmy T to know that he has high expectations for him and the position and that he wants constant improvement. And, as I said before, I bet Tebow agrees and understands and isn't taking this nearly as hard as some of the mentally weak and hyperbolic fans seem to be.

You don't suppose the play calling has anything to do with this at all do you? Like the 2 FB dives in 3 plays to go 3 and out?? How predicable is this offense? Yea, all Tebows fault. It's BS that Tebow gets all the 3rd down failure blame. There are times where he has missed badly but there are times where the play calling has been extremely conservative/questionable. There have been times where the ball has been dropped or the guy didn't run past the sticks. How is that Tebow's fault?

TonyR
11-22-2011, 08:07 AM
blah blah blah blah blah blah

You still haven't responded to my previous post. The issue here is whether Elway was "out of line" in his comments about Tebow and the offense. He basically stated they need to do better. I showed you facts supporting that Elway is correct. jhns, do you think Tebow and the offense need to improve or are you supporting complacency? Simple question jhns, answer it. Improve or stand pat? Which is it? Suggesting they need to improve doesn't mean lack of support. A lack of support would mean benching Tebow. He isn't being benched. You need to relax, jhns. You have no control over what Elway and Fox do. Just because Elway's comments are hurting your feelings doesn't mean they're hurting Tebow's. He's a big boy and can take care of himself.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:11 AM
You still haven't responded to my previous post. The issue here is whether Elway was "out of line" in his comments about Tebow and the offense. He basically stated they need to do better. I showed you facts supporting that Elway is correct. jhns, do you think Tebow and the offense need to improve or are you supporting complacency? Simple question jhns, answer it. Improve or stand pat? Which is it? Suggesting they need to improve doesn't mean lack of support. A lack of support would mean benching Tebow. He isn't being benched. You need to relax, jhns. You have no control over what Elway and Fox do. Just because Elway's comments are hurting your feelings doesn't mean they're hurting Tebow's. He's a big boy and can take care of himself.

Elway is going the McDaniels route of no support for the much better QB. Of course you McFans love it. He is doing this after fully supporting the loser. Of course Tebow needs to improve. He is a second year player... You and Elway are clowns. Sorry that Tebow doesn't win in a way you approve of...

TonyR
11-22-2011, 08:11 AM
You don't suppose the play calling has anything to do with this at all do you? Like the 2 FB dives in 3 plays to go 3 and out?? How predicable is this offense? Yea, all Tebows fault. It's BS that Tebow gets all the 3rd down failure blame. There are times where he has missed badly but there are times where the play calling has been extremely conservative/questionable. There have been times where the ball has been dropped or the guy didn't run past the sticks. How is that Tebow's fault?

LOL You guys and your overreaction to things. Where did anybody blame Tebow? Again, he's winning and doing some good things but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve. That's all Elway is saying. Why is this so difficult? Yes, play calling is a factor. That needs to get better, too. If/when Tebow gets benched you'll have a case that he isn't being supported. Until then he's the starting QB of the Denver Broncos and Elway has every right to have high expectations. You should, too.

TonyR
11-22-2011, 08:12 AM
Elway is going the McDaniels route of no support for the much better QB.

Hilarious! You mean the one he benched vs. the one he's starting?!? You can't really be this stupid. (although I fear you can...)

BroncoBeavis
11-22-2011, 08:13 AM
If you look at the situational stats, Elway calling out Tebow on third down is not warranted.

Tebow has attempted 8 passes on 3D < 6 compared to 26 on 3D 6+ in over 5 games.
Compared to Orton who attempted 17 passes on 3D < 6 compared to 26 on 3D 6+.

When Tebow is constantly put in third and long, don't expect to convert many of them. So for Elway to then call him out on it is unfair in my opinion, especially as we often run it on third down anyway.

It's all bull****, really. I'm starting to believe that Elway's going to pick whatever part of the O's game is the biggest struggle and highlight it. If Tim somehow improves on the improbable 3rd and longs this system puts him in, then Elway'll probably start complaining about why we keep ending up in 3rd and long. (hint, Run, Run)

The real story is we need to be less predictable. Anyone with half a brain can predict our run/pass playcall 90% of the time. A throw on 1st down doesn't even have to complete to help out the run game. You just have to show you're willing.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:14 AM
Hilarious! You mean the one he benched vs. the one he's starting?!? You can't really be this stupid. (although I fear you can...)

Wait, you think Elway is picking the starter? LOL

How cute. Then you call me stupid? Funny stuff.

OrangeCrush2724
11-22-2011, 08:16 AM
Elway does have a point. He said his goal is to win a championship and you won't get that done with being horrible on 3rd downs. Here is the 3rd conversion since Tebow took over:

Miami- 4/16
Detroit- 2/14
Oakland - 3/12
KC- 5/14
NYJ- 3/13

I think its great that he is going to bring in competition next year. Competition makes everyone (and your team) better. Who knows, maybe Tebow with another offseason will get more comfortable in the passing situations.

ol#7
11-22-2011, 08:17 AM
LOL You guys and your overreaction to things. Where did anybody blame Tebow? Again, he's winning and doing some good things but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to improve. That's all Elway is saying. Why is this so difficult? Yes, play calling is a factor. That needs to get better, too. If/when Tebow gets benched you'll have a case that he isn't being supported. Until then he's the starting QB of the Denver Broncos and Elway has every right to have high expectations. You should, too.

Yeah, like expecting a winning record, cough 4-1, cough.

This entire season the FO has said things they dont need to say, this being the latest. They could have headed off the early season controversy and calmed the rising tide had they handled it better, but instead opted to thumb their noses and gave the 'because we say so' response.

George Karl has been known to throw guys under the bus in the media too, and he is called on it. I dont see why Elway or Bowlen or Fox should get a pass for doing it. Has nothing to do with Tebow, it's just a freaking stupid thing to do.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:19 AM
Yeah, like expecting a winning record, cough 4-1, cough.

This entire season the FO has said things they dont need to say, this being the latest. They could have headed off the early season controversy and calmed the rising tide had they handled it better, but instead opted to thumb their noses and gave the 'because we say so' response.

George Karl has been known to throw guys under the bus in the media too, and he is called on it. I dont see why Elway or Bowlen or Fox should get a pass for doing it. Has nothing to do with Tebow, it's just a freaking stupid thing to do.

It isn't stupid if it is a player tony hates...

BroncoBeavis
11-22-2011, 08:19 AM
Pretty much. The offense scored only 10 points, went 3/14 on 3rd and 4th down, and had 11 total 1st downs and 229 total yards, and yet Elway is somehow out of line saying they need to get get better.

Look at Orton's season opener against the Raiders. His offense scored 10 points. Coincidentally the Raiders scored 10 points off Orton turnovers. Yet Elway was falling all over himself holding Orton up.

And for the most part I was ok with that (other than Elway pretending like it was the first time Orton ever played in the NFL)

As an organization, even if you have doubts about your QB, you keep them to yourself until you've decided to pull the trigger on a change. This is magnified 10x when you have a media ready to pounce on any statement you make to flog your QB with it repeatedly. It's no worse than Brandon Lloyd really.

OrangeCrush2724
11-22-2011, 08:20 AM
Yeah, like expecting a winning record, cough 4-1, cough.



How much do you credit Tebow with the 4-1 record, and how much do you credit the running game (aside from Tebow's) and the defense?

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:22 AM
How much do you credit Tebow with the 4-1 record, and how much do you credit the running game (aside from Tebow's) and the defense?

1-4 to 4-1

That is how much you should credit Tebow.

4-14 to 5-3

That is how much you should credit Tebow.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-22-2011, 08:23 AM
Not as retarded as the idea of bring Orton back into the game.

And also, buttons. Because buttons have as much to do with what I wrote as "bringing Orton back into the game."

Pull your head out of your ass, and try again.

RaiderH8r
11-22-2011, 08:23 AM
Maybe it's because the GOAT doesn't see great things for Timmay. Or maybe he's sick of talking about it and is RELIEVED that someone asked him a question that didn't pertain to our qb situation. But I'm sure you'll go with the former.

John knows damn good and well the NFL is a QB first, second, and third league. Hell, John Skelton gets more press than Von Miller. That's the nature of the beast and he may well be relieved to talk about something else on this club that doesn't relate to the QB position but if he's surprised about it he's been hiding out deeper in the whiskey bottle than I thought.

BroncoBeavis
11-22-2011, 08:23 AM
EI think its great that he is going to bring in competition next year. Competition makes everyone (and your team) better. Who knows, maybe Tebow with another offseason will get more comfortable in the passing situations.

I'm not opposed to bringing in another QB. We'll need one anyway. I'm opposed to stretching for one in the draft though, and ignoring other clear needs in the process.

Look at our scrub WR situation. That needs to be addressed way before any QB is really going to break out in Denver.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:25 AM
And also, buttons. Because buttons have as much to do with what I wrote as "bringing Orton back into the game."

Pull your head out of your ass, and try again.

Do you have a link to Elway saying Orton is week to week? I googled and can't find anything even close to that. Why do you need to lie?

KO5K
11-22-2011, 08:25 AM
Elway does have a point. He said his goal is to win a championship and you won't get that done with being horrible on 3rd downs. Here is the 3rd conversion since McCoy forgot how to run a competent game plan:

Miami- 4/16
Detroit- 2/14
Oakland - 3/12
KC- 5/14
NYJ- 3/13

FYP.

Look at the situational stats, Tebow should be third in line on the blame for third downs.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-22-2011, 08:25 AM
Yes, they are there to make the fans happy. Without paying customers they would go out of business. This FO has continually mocked the fans at every turn. I am frustrated that they should be able to handle these questions more diplomatically...like practically every other team.

No retard, my panites are not in a bunch, I would never treat the mother of the ElusiveKyleOrtons panties in such a way. They are neatly folded.

You're right. I'd much rather have the front office of my football team taking a PR class than focus on properly running the team.

Thank you for opening my eyes with your brilliance. PR classes for everyone! Because PR has won SO many Super Bowls!

You are the smart. Oh, and your insult (if that's what you'd call it) made no sense.

Shotgun Willie
11-22-2011, 08:26 AM
Yes, they are there to make the fans happy. Without paying customers they would go out of business. This FO has continually mocked the fans at every turn. I am frustrated that they should be able to handle these questions more diplomatically...like practically every other team.

No retard, my panites are not in a bunch, I would never treat the mother of the ElusiveKyleOrtons panties in such a way. They are neatly folded.

So, when someone makes the decision of whether to fork out the $75 or $100 or more for a game ticket, they solely make that decision based off of what the front office says in a random interview? Insanity. Sorry, but not one person in the stands pays that $ because of what the front office says in interviews. They pay it to watch the players on the field play a game for 3 hrs. Words spoken by the suits in off days carry zero weight in that decision.

Dagmar
11-22-2011, 08:26 AM
These are are actual messages from Broncos fans to Elway:

1. @johnelway you need acting lessons, that you can do a better job at pretending to be happy your team won.

2. @johnelway i hope pat fires you and you can go back to arena football were you belong you piece of trash.

3. How does it feel @johnelway from being our hero to be almost as hated as Philip Rivers?

4. Hey @johnelway you lost 3 superbowls and your team won 2 for you when u were washed up so shut your f#$% mouth

5. mr elway pls don’t make the biggest mistake of your young front office career by letting Tim go.

6. @johnelway is pretty much an a$$…

7. JOHN ELWAY IS A MILE HIGH JACK ASS !! Tebow is awesome

8. F#$% @johnelway dude went scounting the baylor/OU game for a QB????

9. @johnelway I understand your position but your lack of support for my QB is really getting annoying.

The total insanity is hilarious and terrifying at the same time. It also points out Elway’s tricky position as Tebow becomes the most popular quarterback in town.

With each win, the Broncos get further away from the top of the draft where the best QB prospects will be taken.

With each win, the Tebowmaniacs will only grow angrier if Elway ever pulls the rug out from under their hero.

All of them are MacGruder's multiple twitter accounts...

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:27 AM
So, when someone makes the decision of whether to fork out the $75 or $100 or more for a game ticket, they solely make that decision based off of what the front office says in a random interview? Insanity. Sorry, but not one person in the stands pays that $ because of what the front office says in interviews. They pay it to watch the players on the field play a game for 3 hrs. Words spoken by the suits in off days carry zero weight in that decision.

Did you ever tell us what your other account here is?

Shotgun Willie
11-22-2011, 08:30 AM
Did you ever tell us what your other account here is?

Too difficult to post it from my phone. I'll get back to you from my pc tonight.

RaiderH8r
11-22-2011, 08:32 AM
If he wants to improve his game at the NFL level, he needs skills like proper QB mechanics and footwork. It's simple, MacGruder... the only possible result that can happen from working on improving his mechanics and footwork is: he becomes a better quarterback. So it's in his best interests to do it.

Orton was struggling in McDaniels' offensive system too. It's because Orton is mediocre.

It's Gase's job to coach Tebow (and Orton, Quinn and Weber). It's McCoy's job to ensure that Gase coaches the QBs correctly. And it's Fox's job to ensure that McCoy is ensuring that Gase is coaching the QBs correctly. Elway is not with the team in a coaching capacity.

If he truly were "doing his part" as you assert that he did... then why did he show up at training camp looking like he "regressed" from the previous season?

So now Tebow is "overcoached"? ??? No. His previous coaches failed to make sure he had the proper tools to achieve the most success at the "next level" (the NFL).

Coaching can f up a guy up as much or more than it helps him. Just because a guy is being coached doesn't mean he's being coached well or even competently. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if this club has Andrew Luck or Barkley or Jones or any other blue chip rookie QB prospect come in to replace Tebow does this FO trust their development to Gase? Most folks on the Mane seem to think that, no, the FO would not trust development of a true, traditional QB prospect would occur under Gase. So why the hell do we let Gase around the facilities as a QB coach then?

I agree, Tim needs to improve. Tim agrees, he needs to improve. Is there anybody in the football world that doesn't think that Tebow would work himself to death to get better? Does anybody believe that Tebow just hears a coach and says, "Ah, to hell with that guy. I'm doing it my way"? What you see ont he field is a product of Tim's coaching.

I will also say that what is being laid is a solid foundation to buy time for him to develop. If we can run the ball 60 times a game for a 4+YPC average then run it. In the mean time Tim can make up for lost time in the offseason by working with the team in earnest right now. Tim adds a passing arsenal to this running attack then Katie bar the door, we may just have something truly special.

Also, we need WRs. We don't have a true #1 NFL receiver on the club. None of these guys has shown the ability to make a play on the ball on a consistent basis. If they can touch it they can catch it. Make the play ladies. On a positive note though, they block very well and I'm not being a smart ass here. We need that, we've always needed that. I'm pretty sure Brandon Lloyd would not be laying blocks for McG, Tim, Ball or anybody else 15+yds down field and working like we see with these guys. On Tim's winning run we had two WRs holding their blocks stiff, stone cold locked down, on their men in the end zone. WRs who do that are pretty unique. These guys add play making to their repertoire they too can be something special.

Bottom line is we're winning games with a club that 1. Shouldn't be. On paper, not this good but they're finding a way 2. Is young 3. Has a lot of room to grow into something special.

Also, McGahee eats rocks and craps gunpowder. He is all that is man.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:36 AM
Too difficult to post it from my phone. I'll get back to you from my pc tonight.

I love when people run from their account names after embarrassing themselves over and over again.

ol#7
11-22-2011, 08:37 AM
So, when someone makes the decision of whether to fork out the $75 or $100 or more for a game ticket, they solely make that decision based off of what the front office says in a random interview? Insanity. Sorry, but not one person in the stands pays that $ because of what the front office says in interviews. They pay it to watch the players on the field play a game for 3 hrs. Words spoken by the suits in off days carry zero weight in that decision.

No, when the front office calls out the fans as they did at the beginning of the season, it effects the bottom line. Not for nothing, had they kept playing the sloth, attendance would have fallen. Their season ticket campaign sure wasnt marketed around #8.

I am not saying they have to cow tow to the whims of the fans, but they should keep the paying customer in mind rather than pissing on their heads and saying its raining approach.

All Elway did with that answer was to create enmity with the fan base. How is that a good idea? This is far from the first time this year either, and the free passes have already been given out.

TonyR
11-22-2011, 08:37 AM
Look at Orton's...

Why is Orton relevant? He wasn't the QBOTF then and he isn't now. Tebow might be. Elway is merely voicing his expectations. Forget Orton and stop comparing him to Tebow. This is all very simple: in order to be the QBOTF Tim Tebow has to get better. I know it, John Fox knows it, John Elway knows it, Tim Tebow knows it, anybody with their eyes open knows it. Suggesting the need to get better does not mean "not supporting" or "hating".

TonyR
11-22-2011, 08:38 AM
I love when people run from their account names after embarrassing themselves over and over again.

It's good to see you sticking with yours despite doing the same...

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:39 AM
It's good to see you sticking with yours despite doing the same...

Says the Tebow hating McFan. Will you ever be right about anything?

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:40 AM
Why is Orton relevant? He wasn't the QBOTF then and he isn't now. Tebow might be. Elway is merely voicing his expectations. Forget Orton and stop comparing him to Tebow. This is all very simple: in order to be the QBOTF Tim Tebow has to get better. I know it, John Fox knows it, John Elway knows it, Tim Tebow knows it, anybody with their eyes open knows it. Suggesting the need to get better does not mean "not supporting" or "hating".

No, refusing to support him after supporting thr loser means he isn't supporting him.

TonyR
11-22-2011, 08:44 AM
No, refusing to support him after supporting thr loser means he isn't supporting him.

So the guy who's riding the pine is being supported, and the guy starting isn't? You sticking with that argument after I already corrected you on it?

jhns, did you ever get a B in a class and have your mom or your teacher say you could do better? Is that "support" or "lack of support"?

Oh, and you still haven't answered the questions I asked you earlier. Do you know how to answer questions? I expect better from you, just like Elway expects better from Tebow. Do you feel unsupported? Are you going to cry?

BroncoBeavis
11-22-2011, 08:45 AM
Why is Orton relevant? He wasn't the QBOTF then and he isn't now. Tebow might be. Elway is merely voicing his expectations. Forget Orton and stop comparing him to Tebow. This is all very simple: in order to be the QBOTF Tim Tebow has to get better. I know it, John Fox knows it, John Elway knows it, Tim Tebow knows it, anybody with their eyes open knows it. Suggesting the need to get better does not mean "not supporting" or "hating".

Read for context. The point was comparing Elway's reactions. If Elway knew he needed to be supportive publicly with Orton (even though we all know everyone had behind-the-scenes doubts), he knows he should do the same with Tim. The more he continues on with the double-standard, the more we know he's really rooting for Tebow's failure.

Or maybe they're so embarrassed about starting this season with Orton, they feel the need to highlight anything Tim struggles with as "the reason" they might've screwed our season with the has-been for 5 games.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:51 AM
So the guy who's riding the pine is being supported, and the guy starting isn't? You sticking with that argument after I already corrected you on it?

jhns, did you ever get a B in a class and have your mom or your teacher say you could do better? Is that "support" or "lack of support"?

Oh, and you still haven't answered the questions I asked you earlier. Do you know how to answer questions? I expect better from you, just like Elway expects better from Tebow. Do you feel unsupported? Are you going to cry?

Your hatred of the player that turned this franchises season around is just stupid. Elway only says supportive thungs of the loser when he is in. He says nothing supportive of the winner. The difference in attitude doesn't actually exist because you say so! Who cares what is actually being said!

No, people would say goid job. They would then work with me to get better. They didn't conly tell me I need to improve as they say the guy with an f is the student that does better.

What question do you want answered? Poor tony trying to run smack. I think you need to come out on the right side of an argument before you will ever get under someones skin. Pretending to be a fan as you defended McDaniels and hate everything good is pretty funny though.

Shotgun Willie
11-22-2011, 08:51 AM
No, when the front office calls out the fans as they did at the beginning of the season, it effects the bottom line. Not for nothing, had they kept playing the sloth, attendance would have fallen. Their season ticket campaign sure wasnt marketed around #8.

I am not saying they have to cow tow to the whims of the fans, but they should keep the paying customer in mind rather than pissing on their heads and saying its raining approach.

All Elway did with that answer was to create enmity with the fan base. How is that a good idea? This is far from the first time this year either, and the free passes have already been given out.

The entire NFL with it summer lockout essentially pissed all over the common fan. Despite that, they almost all came back and nobody's sellout streaks have been effected. People are weak and will continue to fill the stands and gobble up merchandise no matter what these morons in the suits say or do. It's too bad really. This was the fan's chance to speak up and be heard, and while there was lots of tough talk from some over the summer about sticking it to the NFL, when it really came time to put up or shut up, they shut up.

OrangeCrush2724
11-22-2011, 08:52 AM
FYP.

Look at the situational stats, Tebow should be third in line on the blame for third downs.

Maybe if Tebow shows more in the first 57 minutes, McCoy would have more confidence in calling the "right" plays.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:53 AM
Read for context. The point was comparing Elway's reactions. If Elway knew he needed to be supportive publicly with Orton (even though we all know everyone had behind-the-scenes doubts), he knows he should do the same with Tim. The more he continues on with the double-standard, the more we know he's really rooting for Tebow's failure.

Or maybe they're so embarrassed about starting this season with Orton, they feel the need to highlight anything Tim struggles with as "the reason" they might've screwed our season with the has-been for 5 games.

This is all I can think of as reasons for it. No one would care if he treated them the same. Instead it is that the loser gives us the best chance to win and the winner does nothing right. It makes Elway sound like an idiot.

TheReverend
11-22-2011, 08:53 AM
You're right. I'd much rather have the front office of my football team taking a PR class than focus on properly running the team.

Thank you for opening my eyes with your brilliance. PR classes for everyone! Because PR has won SO many Super Bowls!

You are the smart. Oh, and your insult (if that's what you'd call it) made no sense.

You don't need a PR class to learn common sense.

jhns
11-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Maybe if Tebow shows more in the first 57 minutes, McCoy would have more confidence in calling the "right" plays.

Yeah! Insyead we should blame him for those failures as we don't give him the cjance to prove anyone wrong!

BroncoBeavis
11-22-2011, 08:55 AM
3rd theory

Elway's reaction to Tebow = Favre's Rodgersian schadenfreude. :)