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View Full Version : PFT: "Young...is Tim Tebow plus the ability to throw the ball"


tsiguy96
11-21-2011, 07:11 AM
someone please explain this:

Young, quite simply, is Tim Tebow plus the ability to throw the ball reasonably accurately, albeit unconventionally. Young still can perform at a high level; the challenge will be to match him up with a coach who’ll be able to shepherd Young through the adversity he’ll inevitably face as a starting quarterback.

This is such a stupid, ridiculous statement I cant even believe they wrote it. How is Vince Young ANYTHING like Tim Tebow? Tebow is winning because he does not turn over the ball and has a ridiculous ability to run a special offense, Young almost gives the game away with 3 INTs, but somehow HIS comeback win is more special than Tebows because he THREW the final touchdown instead of running it in...

Incredible the lengths the media will go to to try and discredit Tims wins and play up the wins of other QBs.

Lolad
11-21-2011, 07:16 AM
Young is a depressed head case. He's nothing like Tebow, and like you says he throws multiple picks

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-21-2011, 07:19 AM
Stupid comment. REALLY stupid.

Better comment: Vince Young is Steve-O with a strong arm.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:27 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/TebowHatersGonnaHate.jpg

/thread

Jesterhole
11-21-2011, 07:40 AM
Dude, it's PFT. Basically three giant assholes who sit around and blog all day with whatever they feel like making up. Anything they post is only about generating traffic. They call it a rumor mill so they can get away with making 90% of the crap up.

Pony Boy
11-21-2011, 07:44 AM
Maybe he ment Steve Young

mile7high7
11-21-2011, 07:50 AM
It does make me wish for a real QB tutor though.
When you see what Reid and that staff has done for Vick, Kolb, even hiding McNabbs flaws in his later years, and anyone remember AJ Feely...
If Tebow had this offseason with a real QB coach to work on his footwork, and tweaking other issues that can be fixed, he could come into next year ready to take it to the next level...

Ray Finkle
11-21-2011, 08:00 AM
who gives a ****? Really, until Tim has 15 to 20 games, no one can make an accurate analysis of where he is. He has promise but needs to make 5 to 6 more throws a game and the pundits will quiet....

Crushaholic
11-21-2011, 08:09 AM
Cam Newton would be a BETTER comparison, but even he can't get it done like Tebow...

maher_tyler
11-21-2011, 08:23 AM
someone please explain this:



This is such a stupid, ridiculous statement I cant even believe they wrote it. How is Vince Young ANYTHING like Tim Tebow? Tebow is winning because he does not turn over the ball and has a ridiculous ability to run a special offense, Young almost gives the game away with 3 INTs, but somehow HIS comeback win is more special than Tebows because he THREW the final touchdown instead of running it in...

Incredible the lengths the media will go to to try and discredit Tims wins and play up the wins of other QBs.

Totally agree.

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 08:36 AM
someone please explain this:
This is such a stupid, ridiculous statement I cant even believe they wrote it. How is Vince Young ANYTHING like Tim Tebow?
Tebow is winning because he does not turn over the ball and has a ridiculous ability to run a special offense, Young almost
gives the game away with 3 INTs, but somehow HIS comeback win is more special than Tebows because he THREW the
final touchdown instead of running it in...

Incredible the lengths the media will go to to try and discredit Tims wins and play up the wins of other QBs.

How do you recognize a MEDIA MORON (or a generic IDIOT) when you see one?
It's real easy, they are ALL TOTALLY CLUELESS about the actual FACTS/STATS.
They just make up TOTAL CHIT and then act like they know what they are driveling about.

Differences - Tebow to V.Young.

Tebow 2nd season, 8 total starts.
Young 6th season, 54 games.

In Young's first 4 seasons, his season PER's ranged from 64.5 to 75.1.
In Tebow's first season, PER 82.1

Young, currently in his 6th season, PASS-ER 61.4
Tebow, currently in his 2nd season, PASS-ER 78.4 (without his 2 best 2010 WR's)
Try taking away any other NFL's Top 2 WR's, and then see how that affects their passing stats.

Tebow's career TD/Int Ratio (12/4) is 3 to 1.
Young's career TD/Int Ratio is (44/46) .96 to 1, (for a negative ratio)

Tebow's 2011 TD/Int Ratio is 7 to 1
Youngs 2011 TD/Int Ratio is .5 to 1

Young 2011 - 3 gms, 23 of 37, 62.2% for 258 yds, 11.2 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 4 Ints, PER 61.4

Tebow 2011 - 8 gms, 5 starts - 56 of 125, 44.8% for 709 yds, 12.7 yds/comp, 7 TD's, 1 Int, PER 78.4

2nd Tip off on the MEDIA MORONS.
They ONLY look at the Completion % or Total Passing Yds, while they try to
totally ignore the more important TD/Int ratio and the Overall PER's.

Vince Young is yet another TURNOVER MACHINE, passing or running the ball.
In Tebow's 306 plays, he has a grand total of just 5 turnovers, 4 Ints, 1 LPF.


Young 2011 Rushing - 6 for 5 yds, .8 ypc, 0 TDs.
Career Rushing - 271 for 1,387 yds, 5.1 ypc, 12 TD's, 38 fum, 12 lost poss fumbles.

Tebow 2011 Rushing - 56 for 388 yds, 6.9 ypc, 3 TD's.
Career Rushing - 99 for 615 yds, 6.2 ypc, 9 TD's, 5 fumbles, 1 lost poss fumble.

Young:
1,227 Passes, 46 Ints, I Int per 26.7 passes.
One Lost Possession Fumble per 22.6 runs.
One Turnover per 25.8 NFL Snaps

Tebow:
207 Passes, 4 Ints, 1 Int per 51.8 passes.
One Lost Possession Fumble per 99 runs.
One Turnover per 61.2 NFL Snaps.

Keys to winning in the NFL, 1)run the ball, 2) stop the run, 3) DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER!!!

In short, Vince Young is a mostly incompetent QB and a turnover machine compared to Tim Tebow.

PS

In a 'normal' offense last season, prior to Fox, Tebow averaged just over 27 pass attempts per game,
He completed half of his passes for 654 yds, for 15.95 yds/comp, 5 TD's to 3 Ints, for an 82.1 PER.

Maybe what Fox meant to say was that Tebow was 'screwed' in the moronic Fox directed offense.....

Forcing Tebow to work with McCoy to develop some extra plays (that work) to supplement Fox's 'normal' offense.

Denver IS NOT running the Tebow/Meyer/UF's Spread/Option Offense.
They have simply ADDED a few S/O type plays to throw off the defense and help a weak/injured/young Bronco OL.

IMOHO, Tebow has helped Fox a whole lot more than Fox has helped Tebow.
So Denver is winning now because of Tebow and IN SPITE of Fox.

Things that Timmy himself would NEVER say....
(but I'm not nearly as good hearted and forgiving of a guy as Timmy is) :wiggle:

ColoradoDarin
11-21-2011, 08:40 AM
How do you recognize a MEDIA MORON (or a generic IDIOT) when you see one?
It's real easy, they are ALL TOTALLY CLUELESS about the actual FACTS/STATS.
They just make up TOTAL CHIT and then act like they know what they are driveling about.

Differences - Tebow to V.Young.

Tebow 2nd season, 8 total starts.
Young 6th season, 54 games.

In Young's first 4 seasons, his season PER's ranged from 64.5 to 75.1.
In Tebow's first season, PER 82.1

Young, currently in his 6th season, PASS-ER 61.4
Tebow, currently in his 2nd season, PASS-ER 78.4 (without his 2 best 2010 WR's)
Try taking away any other NFL's Top 2 WR's, and then see how that affects their passing stats.

Tebow's career TD/Int Ratio (12/4) is 3 to 1.
Young's career TD/Int Ratio is (44/46) .96 to 1, (for a negative ratio)

Tebow's 2011 TD/Int Ratio is 7 to 1
Youngs 2011 TD/Int Ratio is .5 to 1

Young 2011 - 3 gms, 23 of 37, 62.2% for 258 yds, 11.2 yds/comp, 2 TD's, 4 Ints, PER 61.4

Tebow 2011 - 8 gms, 5 starts - 56 of 125, 44.8% for 709 yds, 12.7 yds/comp, 7 TD's, 1 Int, PER 78.4

2nd Tip off on the MEDIA MORONS.
They ONLY look at the Completion % or Total Passing Yds, while they try to
totally ignore the more important TD/Int ratio and the Overall PER's.

Vince Young is yet another TURNOVER MACHINE, passing or running the ball.
In Tebow's 306 plays, he has a grand total of just 5 turnovers, 4 Ints, 1 LPF.


Young 2011 Rushing - 6 for 5 yds, .8 ypc, 0 TDs.
Career Rushing - 271 for 1,387 yds, 5.1 ypc, 12 TD's, 38 fum, 12 lost poss fumbles.

Tebow 2011 Rushing - 56 for 388 yds, 6.9 ypc, 3 TD's.
Career Rushing - 99 for 615 yds, 6.2 ypc, 9 TD's, 5 fumbles, 1 lost poss fumble.

Young:
1,227 Passes, 46 Ints, I Int per 26.7 passes.
One Lost Possession Fumble per 22.6 runs.
One Turnover per 25.8 NFL Snaps

Tebow:
207 Passes, 4 Ints, 1 Int per 51.8 passes.
One Lost Possession Fumble per 99 runs.
One Turnover per 61.2 NFL Snaps.

Keys to winning in the NFL, 1)run the ball, 2) stop the run, 3) DON'T TURN THE BALL OVER!!!

In short, Vince Young is a mostly incompetent QB and a turnover machine compared to Tim Tebow.

PS

In a 'normal' offense last season, prior to Fox, Tebow averaged just over 27 pass attempts per game,
He completed half of his passes for 654 yds, for 15.95 yds/comp, 5 TD's to 3 Ints, for an 82.1 PER.

Maybe what Fox meant to say was that Tebow was 'screwed' in the moronic Fox directed offense.....

Forcing Tebow to work with McCoy to develop some extra plays (that work) to supplement Fox's 'normal' offense.

Denver IS NOT running the Tebow/Meyer/UF's Spread/Option Offense.
They have simply ADDED a few S/O type plays to throw off the defense and help a weak/injured/young Bronco OL.

IMOHO, Tebow has helped Fox a whole lot more than Fox has helped Tebow.
So Denver is winning now because of Tebow and IN SPITE of Fox.

Things that Timmy himself would NEVER say....
(but I'm not nearly as good hearted and forgiving of a guy as Timmy is) :wiggle:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/dhaus5650/gifs/downloader.gif

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 08:48 AM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/dhaus5650/gifs/downloader.gif

MEDIA MORONS and other generic IDIOTS generally don't,,,, and it's obvious to almost anyone with a brain. LOL

Besides, I really don't G-a-S what you do or don't do. :welcome:

Turd_Ferguson
11-21-2011, 09:03 AM
This is stupid. Tebow sucks at throwing the ball, but is smart and can, and will do whatever is asked of him (except throw the ball well) Tebow also doesn't turn the ball over. .

Vince Young is a turnover prone moron. He scored like a 2 on the wonderlic test. He is athletic, but lacks the intelligence to use his athleticism the way Tebow does.

To compare them is pretty lame. If Tebow could throw the ball he would be one of the best Qbs in the NFL. If Vince Young could throw the ball he would still be a turnover making dumb a$$ that isnt smart enough to be in the league.. As it stands they are both terrible at throwing the ball, but Tebow is better at everything else.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 09:06 AM
You're going to see this sh*t until Tebow proves he can throw the ball. And he's not going to prove that until the game plan gives him the opportunity to do so. As long as we keep winning, it doesn't really matter.

enjolras
11-21-2011, 09:26 AM
Young is UT's Tim Tebow. That's all this is. My business partner is a UT guy, and he remains convinced that backup QB Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL. It doesn't pass the eye-test, but neither does Tebow.

Vince Young does have a really impressive career win-loss total. He added to it last night in the clutch. As long as his head stays right (unlikely) he can be really good.

vanbrugh
11-21-2011, 09:28 AM
29548

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 10:25 AM
Young is UT's Tim Tebow. That's all this is. My business partner is a UT guy, and he remains convinced that backup QB Vince Young is the best QB in the NFL. It doesn't pass the eye-test, but neither does Tebow.

Vince Young does have a really impressive career win-loss total. He added to it last night in the clutch. As long as his head stays right (unlikely) he can be really good.
==============

TonyR -
You're going to see this sh*t until Tebow proves he can throw the ball. And he's not going to prove that until the game plan gives him the opportunity to do so. As long as we keep winning, it doesn't really matter.



Tebow averaged 27 pass attempts per game last season, before the genius combo of Fox/Elway arrived for the 2011 season.

After only 8 NFL starts, the last 5 starts being without the Broncos Top 2 WR's from 2010:
Tebow's 2011 TD/Int Ratio is 7.0 to 1 (#2 in NFL behing A.Rogers) - PASS-ER 78.4

In his 6th NFL season, seasoned Veteran NFL QB:
Vince Young's (44/46) TD/Int Ratio is .96 to 1 - PASS-ER 61.4

But in some of the Genius Football Minds here, this means that Young is a better passer than Tebow? WTF ???
(and you really don't EVER want to compare their college career passing stats)

Mogulseeker
11-21-2011, 10:31 AM
Bring in VY as Tebow's backup.

Seriously... run the option with both on the field at the same time... run some double-pass reverses with Young behind center and Tebow in the slot. I can see it.

broncocalijohn
11-21-2011, 10:33 AM
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Don't tell me. It is the same cut n paste that he has been putting on here for months. Why mods allow a spammer is beyond me. I would rather read a broken English post by Andre telling us about jerseys for sale.

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 10:35 AM
why would the Titans give up on a mobile QB that can throw?

weird

(rolls eyes)

DrFate
11-21-2011, 11:00 AM
Young is a turnover machine

edog24
11-21-2011, 11:09 AM
why would the Titans give up on a mobile QB that can throw?

weird

(rolls eyes)

He quit and wanted to off himself?

AlphaSeirra
11-21-2011, 11:45 AM
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Don't tell me. It is the same cut n paste that he has been putting on here for months. Why mods allow a spammer is beyond me.
I would rather read a broken English post by Andre telling us about jerseys for sale.

If I'm a spammer (not) then you're an idiot (yep). :welcome:

I research, read, and type 55 cwpm, something that the more 'ignorant' here seem totally unable to do.

What you'd rather do is of very little interest to anyone on this planet I'm betting, much less to any
of those reading or posting here.

And please feel free to continue with me on ignore, along with the other few who rely on ingorant speculations
to form their feeble opinions. _i_O_i_

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 12:32 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/vydream.jpg

Tombstone RJ
11-21-2011, 01:43 PM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/vydream.jpg

wut? ROFL!

razorwire77
11-21-2011, 01:50 PM
I didn't watch the entire game, but didn't he throw a bunch of picks and look really tentative and try to baby arm a bunch of passes in the first half? Wasn't his QB rating sub 70?

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 01:58 PM
I'm not at all shocked the same people that defend Tebow and his end results are down playing Young performance and his end result which was a win. When the game was on the line he was clutch just like Tebow.

Play2win
11-21-2011, 02:03 PM
I'm not at all shocked the same people that defend Tebow and his end results are down playing Young performance and his end result which was a win. When the game was on the line he was clutch just like Tebow.

I blame fantasy football Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 02:09 PM
I blame fantasy football Hilarious!

QB stats don't matter as long as you win the game just as long as you are a Denver Bronco QB.

AZorange1
11-21-2011, 02:25 PM
How about Kyle Orton back to Chicago now? At all possible?

cutthemdown
11-21-2011, 02:35 PM
Cam Newton would be a BETTER comparison, but even he can't get it done like Tebow...

I wouldn't say that. He may break the record for rushing tds by a QB this yr. Needs 6 more.

cutthemdown
11-21-2011, 02:37 PM
How about Kyle Orton back to Chicago now? At all possible?

Trade deadline already passed.

Cito Pelon
11-21-2011, 03:02 PM
Well, no comment seeings how I said Vince Young would be a good QB in the NFL.

edog24
11-21-2011, 03:03 PM
Didn't he get into a bar fight or something? Anyone have a link to it?

TonyR
11-21-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm not at all shocked the same people that defend Tebow and his end results are down playing Young performance and his end result which was a win. When the game was on the line he was clutch just like Tebow.

Good point. And the Eagles beat a "good team", on the road. If results are what matter then I'm not sure how/why anyone would be slamming VY for this game.

barryr
11-21-2011, 03:57 PM
Cam Newton's stats are probably better than Tebow's, but not the wins and that is what matters most to me and to players. Well, the unselfish ones at least. Vince Young as a funny looking motion too, yet that has not been mentioned much since his rookie year.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 04:02 PM
Good point. And the Eagles beat a "good team", on the road. If results are what matter then I'm not sure how/why anyone would be slamming VY for this game.

I've seen them bring up his low IQ and what he does in is free time (going to the club). How is any of that any different then anyone bring up Tebow and his religious beliefs? None of them have anything to do with the results on a football field.

TonyR
11-21-2011, 04:04 PM
I've seen them bring up his low IQ and what he does in is free time (going to the club). How is any of that any different then anyone bring up Tebow and his religious beliefs? None of them have anything to do with the results on a football field.

He does have some "issues" which are a concern, and he did wear out his welcome in Tennessee, but the guy has generally been a winner. And he's clearly a better passer than Tebow is at this point.

cutthemdown
11-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Not sure you can say you are better when you have 3 picks. 9 times out of 10 you will lose. Now if your special teams and defense make huge plays you can overcome anything.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 04:13 PM
He does have some "issues" which are a concern, and he did wear out his welcome in Tennessee, but the guy has generally been a winner. And he's clearly a better passer than Tebow is at this point.

Both win games which is the point I guess. Remember how everyone claimed that Kyle Orton won games before he got to Denver? Every debate about Cutler vs Orton was Orton was a winner and Cutler wasn't well we have seen the results of that little mistake.

Really what does it matter if Young threw 3 picks if he won the game when it mattered. These people need to use the same arguement for Young as they do for Tebow, cause while it's not always pretty it still results in a W.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 04:21 PM
I've seen them bring up his low IQ and what he does in is free time (going to the club). How is any of that any different then anyone bring up Tebow and his religious beliefs? None of them have anything to do with the results on a football field.

Significantly?

One has been a constant source of immaturity and drama and even flat out quit on the team.

The other is team first enough to have volunteered to play WR while on the bench.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 04:27 PM
Significantly?

One has been a constant source of immaturity and drama and even flat out quit on the team.

The other is team first enough to have volunteered to play WR while on the bench.

When the game was on the line last night did Young not win? Isn't that the arguement for Tebow it does't matter how bad he plays for 55 minutes when we need him to make a play he does and we win? That doesn't matter with Young because of his "issues"? Is Tebow a better team-mate? Yes he is. Is Tebow the better person off the field? Yes he is. Does any of that matter when the game is on the line? No. Philly was playing for its SEASON as well, not just the game and Young flat out won just like I would expect Tebow to do.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 04:38 PM
When the game was on the line last night did Young not win? Isn't that the arguement for Tebow it does't matter how bad he plays for 55 minutes when we need him to make a play he does and we win? That doesn't matter with Young because of his "issues"? Is Tebow a better team-mate? Yes he is. Is Tebow the better person off the field? Yes he is.

That has nothing to do with the question asked.

Does any of that matter when the game is on the line? No. Philly was playing for its SEASON as well, not just the game and Young flat out won just like I would expect Tebow to do.

Yes, it does matter. Ask Jeff Fischer or Keith Bullock or any of his other teammates that he actually QUIT on.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 04:44 PM
That has nothing to do with the question asked.



Yes, it does matter. Ask Jeff Fischer or Keith Bullock or any of his other teammates that he actually QUIT on.

It has everything to do with the topic. Ask the Eagles players if it mattered last night when their season was on the line and he drove them down the field on the road against a very good team for the win.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 04:51 PM
It has everything to do with the topic. Ask the Eagles players if it mattered last night when their season was on the line and he drove them down the field on the road against a very good team for the win.

Once again, I was responding to THIS post:

I've seen them bring up his low IQ and what he does in is free time (going to the club). How is any of that any different then anyone bring up Tebow and his religious beliefs? None of them have anything to do with the results on a football field.

What does THIS and MY REPLY TO THIS have to do with that?

But as for this current post, great for Philly. Maybe he's done quitting on teams... but he's done it SEVERAL times, so we'll see.

bowtown
11-21-2011, 04:54 PM
I've seen them bring up his low IQ and what he does in is free time (going to the club). How is any of that any different then anyone bring up Tebow and his religious beliefs? None of them have anything to do with the results on a football field.

This thread has nothing to do with Hillis.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 05:00 PM
Once again, I was responding to THIS post:



What does THIS and MY REPLY TO THIS have to do with that?

But as for this current post, great for Philly. Maybe he's done quitting on teams... but he's done it SEVERAL times, so we'll see.

My point which still is the same from post 28 to now is if we are going to give Tebow a pass for him playing poor for 55 minutes of a game but win when it matters it should be the same for Young. I brought up people attacking what Young has done off field because the same posters that attack Young for his off field issues get upset that what Tebow does off field gets polarized for whatever reason.

As I said Tebow and Young are exact opposite of eachother (off the field) but as I said no matter what the stats look like when they need to make a play BOTH QBs make that play. Both win games. You can't change how you judge the end results of the QBs because you don't like the ones actions off the field or how he has acted in the past to fit your argument.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 05:04 PM
My point which still is the same from post 28 to now is if we are going to give Tebow a pass for him playing poor for 55 minutes of a game but win when it matters it should be the same for Young. I brought up people attacking what Young has done off field because the same posters that attack Young for his off field issues get upset that what Tebow does off field gets polarized for whatever reason.

As I said Tebow and Young are exact opposite of eachother but as I said no matter what the stats look like when they need to make a play BOTH QBs make that play. Both win games. You can't change how you judge the end results of the QBs because you don't like the ones actions off the field or how he has acted in the past to fit your arguement.

That's great.

I don't care about people criticizing Young or Tebow.

To me, they're NOTHING alike and I wouldn't want Vince Young anywhere near the Broncos ever. The dude has a laundry list of character flaws that DO affect his team.

Think Tim would be out at strip clubs trying to fight people doing the Gator chomp at him?

Think Tim would mope and talk about offing himself?

Think Tim would quit on his team, MULTIPLE times?

Think Tim wouldn't know his ****ing playbook?

Sorry, you can claim they're the same because they "just win" and that his character flaws don't effect the teams he plays for...

But they DO and HAVE. There's nothing debatable there. He flat out ****ing quit on the Titans. MORE THAN ONCE.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 05:13 PM
That's great.

I don't care about people criticizing Young or Tebow.

To me, they're NOTHING alike and I wouldn't want Vince Young anywhere near the Broncos ever. The dude has a laundry list of character flaws that DO affect his team.

Think Tim would be out at strip clubs trying to fight people doing the Gator chomp at him?

Think Tim would mope and talk about offing himself?

Think Tim would quit on his team, MULTIPLE times?

Think Tim wouldn't know his ****ing playbook?

Sorry, you can claim they're the same because they "just win" and that his character flaws don't effect the teams he plays for...

But they DO and HAVE. There's nothing debatable there. He flat out ****ing quit on the Titans. MORE THAN ONCE.

I don't like Young at all Rev all I am saying is the on the field results are the same no matter how poor each player plays or how well they play.

When Tebow won a game only completing two passes fans here said who cares we won the game and made plays when the game was on the line. Now the same posters are like Young sucks cause he threw three picks even though Young won the game when it was on the line just like Tebow.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 05:33 PM
I don't like Young at all Rev all I am saying is the on the field results are the same no matter how poor each player plays or how well they play.

When Tebow won a game only completing two passes fans here said who cares we won the game and made plays when the game was on the line. Now the same posters are like Young sucks cause he threw three picks even though Young won the game when it was on the line just like Tebow.

No, they're not.

The on field results are NOT the same when the team has to go with another player because Vince has quit and is contemplating retirement.

There's NOTHING to argue with about that. It's not even speculation. It happened. Concrete example. It effected the team and their on the field results.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 05:43 PM
No, they're not.

The on field results are NOT the same when the team has to go with another player because Vince has quit and is contemplating retirement.

There's NOTHING to argue with about that. It's not even speculation. It happened. Concrete example. It effected the team and their on the field results.

What Young did LAST NIGHT is the samething Tebow has been doing since he has started this season. When it mattered the most he made the plays he needed to make to win the game. I don't know how that can be argued using prior events in Youngs career. LAST NIGHT he won despite not playing very well to start the game. If you are going to defend Tebows play because the results are a W then the same argument works for Young LAST NIGHT!!!!! It's that simple.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 05:46 PM
What Young did LAST NIGHT is the samething Tebow has been doing since he has started this season. When it mattered the most he made the plays he needed to make to win the game. I don't know how that can be argued using prior events in Youngs career. LAST NIGHT he won despite not playing very well to start the game. If you are going to defend Tebows play because the results are a W then the same argument works for Young LAST NIGHT!!!!! It's that simple.

Yay for one game after destroying careers and a team!

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 05:54 PM
Yay for one game after destroying careers and a team!

Sorry if I think it is a joke for fans to bash a QB that got a W despite how bad he played at the same time get pissed at anyone that says Tebow didn't play all that well despite the W. It could be any starting QB in the NFL and I would think it's a joke. The end results should be judged the sameway.

extralife
11-21-2011, 05:55 PM
I can't believe you guys don't see the comparisons lol.

both mobile athletic QBs that put up ridiculous numbers in college. both inexplicably won a lot of games in their first opportunities as starters. both of them are somehow extremely effective runners even though they don't have any speed. add in Young's pretty good completion percent numbers, and the general consensus of scouts and personnel men before he came out (he was a top five pick for a reason, even if I didn't agree with it), versus Tebow's see-you-in-Canada completion numbers and his generally being viewed as a third round guy, and it's not exactly a wild conclusion. christ, for how much you guys "don't care" about the media you sure care a whole **** of a lot more about it than anyone I've ever met cares about anything on planet earth.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 05:55 PM
Sorry if I think it is a joke for fans to bash a QB that got a W despite how bad he played at the same time get pissed at anyone that says Tebow didn't play all that well despite the W. It could be any starting QB in the NFL and I would think it's a joke. The end results should be judged the sameway.

Saying his IQ or his off the field issues have no bearing on his on field play and comparing it to Tebow's religious beliefs is downright absurd. Don't believe it look at what Vince Young is... a back-up QB that wasn't even in any demand in THAT capacity.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:08 PM
Saying his IQ or his off the field issues have no bearing on his on field play and comparing it to Tebow's religious beliefs is downright absurd. Don't believe it look at what Vince Young is... a back-up QB that wasn't even in any demand in THAT capacity.

That's fine. I was pointing out posters are attacking Young even though when he plays he wins just like people attack Tebow's religious beliefs. Also not that it matters either but Tebow is a back-up QB for us right now as well. Orton was the starter.

There isn't a part of me that doesn't think Tebow over time will be good. He has that drive. I can't say the same about Young, but if he puts in the work and really makes a effort I think he can be every bit as successful in the right system. What the two players do on the football field is down right impressive at times.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 06:10 PM
That's fine. I was pointing out posters are attacking Young even though when he plays he wins just like people attack Tebow's religious beliefs. Also not that it matters either but Tebow is a back-up QB for us right now as well. Orton was the starter.

There isn't a part of me that doesn't think Tebow over time will be good. He has that drive. I can't say the same about Young, but if he puts in the work and really makes a effort I think he can be every bit as successful in the right system. What the two players do on the football field is down right impressive at times.

Not really.

Without Young, Collins took that same team to the top seed in the AFC and a 14-2 record or something just like that.

Without Tebow, Orton took this same team to what 4-14?

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:25 PM
Not really.

Without Young, Collins took that same team to the top seed in the AFC and a 14-2 record or something just like that.

Without Tebow, Orton took this same team to what 4-14?

Same team? In 07 the Titans went 10-6 as a team 9-6 with Young as the starter. 08 they went 13-3 as a team 1-0 with Young. 12-3 with Collins so it's not like they played poor with Young as a starter. Also Collins had CJ and white as the starting RB 08 while Young had just White in 07.

If it's the same team then Collins took a 13-3 team in 08 to a 0-6 team in 09 while Young took that same 0-6 team to 8-2.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 06:32 PM
Same team? In 07 the Titans went 10-6 as a team 9-6 with Young as the starter. 08 they went 13-3 as a team 1-0 with Young. 12-3 with Collins so it's not like they played poor with Young as a starter. Also Collins had CJ and white as the starting RB 08 while Young had just White in 07.

If it's the same team then Collins took a 13-3 team in 08 to a 0-6 team in 09 while Young took that same 0-6 team to 8-2.

That was 09 not 08.

Coincidentally the year of:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/chris-johnson-tennessee-titans_edited-1.jpg

And quite literally the best season any RB has ever had.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:39 PM
That was 09 not 08.

Coincidentally the year of:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/chris-johnson-tennessee-titans_edited-1.jpg

And quite literally the best season any RB has ever had.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2007.htm
07 season 10 and 6. Vince Young went 9-6, Collins went 1-0
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2008.htm
08 season 13-3. Vince Young went 1-0, Collins went 12-3. Johnson's rookie year.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2009.htm
09 season 8-8. Vince Young went 8-2, Collins went 0-6. Collins went 0-6 with your opinion the greatest season ever rushing by a RB. Young went 8-2 with that same back.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:42 PM
Also in 09 the Titans started running more option plays for Young and CJ.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:48 PM
I say your opinion about Johnson's season being the best because I think TD's was better. TD sat out quite a bit due to huge leads. ;D

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 06:53 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2007.htm
07 season 10 and 6. Vince Young went 9-6, Collins went 1-0
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2008.htm
08 season 13-3. Vince Young went 1-0, Collins went 12-3. Johnson's rookie year.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2009.htm
09 season 8-8. Vince Young went 8-2, Collins went 0-6. Collins went 0-6 with your opinion the greatest season ever rushing by a RB. Young went 8-2 with that same back.

Less than 16 carries per game under Collins.

Over 26 carries per game under Young.

Myth = busted

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 06:54 PM
I say your opinion about Johnson's season being the best because I think TD's was better. TD sat out quite a bit due to huge leads. ;D

I can agree with TD WOULD have had the best season ever, but, as you mentioned, he did sit out many 2nd halves.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 06:57 PM
Less than 16 carries per game under Collins.

Over 26 carries per game under Young.

Myth = busted

So if it wasn't for Young, CJ wouldn't have had a good season. CJ should send some of his contract Young's way. What a team player ;D!! Like I said in 09 when Young got in the started running the option O to take advantage of what Young did well as well as CJ. Again like Tebow and the Broncos.

The real myth that is busted is that Collins took a bad team and made them good. No he took a good team to a 0-6 record and Young took a bad team to a .500 record. Kind of like what Tebow is doing.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:04 PM
So if it wasn't for Young CJ wouldn't have had a good season. CJ should send some of his contract Young's way. What a team player ;D!! Like I said in 09 when Young got in the started running the option O to take advantage of what Young did well as well as CJ. Again like Tebow and the Broncos.

The real myth that is busted is that Collins took a bad team and made them good. No he took a good team to a 0-6 record and Young took a bad team to a .500 record. Kind of like what Tebow is doing.

This is ridiculous! Are you claiming that they ran the option over 10 times per game?

And it is NOT like Tebow is doing.

The teams Collins faced:

ALL of them had winning records (outside of 7-9 jacksonville), most were in the playoffs and one went to the SB.

Of the teams Young faced:

In 10 games he faced only 3 winning teams and lost to 2 of them by a 35 pt margin.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:06 PM
This is ridiculous! Are you claiming that they ran the option over 10 times per game?

And it is NOT like Tebow is doing.

The teams Collins faced:

ALL of them had winning records (outside of 7-9 jacksonville), most were in the playoffs and one went to the SB.

Of the teams Young faced:

In 10 games he faced only 3 winning teams and lost to 2 of them by a 35 pt margin.

They played to his strengths just like we are with Tebow. Jeff is a smart old coach just like John is.

Are you really going to sit here and tell me that Collins was a better QB in 09 then Young???

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:09 PM
They played to his strengths just like we are with Tebow. Jeff is a smart old coach just like John is.

Are you really going to sit here and tell me that Collins was a better QB in 09 then Young???

Kerry at his WORST is dramatically better than Vince at his very BEST.

Riding CJ to wins against inferior competition is NOT "playing to strengths".

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:17 PM
That O scored 84 points with Collins in 09 during 6 games. Thats 14 points per game. They scored more then 20 points once. They got flat out crushed the last two games Collins was the starter by a combined score of 90 to 9.

Tenn scored 270 points under Young in ten games. 27 points per game almost double of what Collins was producing with the same team. There is no argument here you can make Rev. Young made that team play better just like Tebow is making our team play better. The prof is in the results regardless of the record.

I mean come on Rev I can comeback and say Tebow hasn't beat anyone good so far this year and the one team that is good that we played we got crushed by. Again what works for Tebow works for Young and vice versa.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:19 PM
Kerry at his WORST is dramatically better than Vince at his very BEST.

Riding CJ to wins against inferior competition is NOT "playing to strengths".

So going 0-6 scoring 14 points per game is better then 8-2 and scoring 27 points per. :spit:

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:20 PM
That O scored 84 points with Collins in 09 during 6 games. Thats 14 points per game. They scored more then 20 points once. They got flat out crushed the last two games Collins was the starter by a combined score of 90 to 9.

Tenn scored 270 points under Young in ten games. 27 points per game almost double of what Collins was producing with the same team. There is no argument here you can make Rev. Young made that team play better just like Tebow is making our team play better. The prof is in the results regardless of the record.

Look at the quality of defenses for the love of god...

Or do you mean to compare the Rams D with the Jets or Steelers?

I mean come on Rev I can comeback and say Tebow hasn't beat anyone good so far this year and the one team that is good that we got crushed by. Again what works for Tebow works for Young and vice versa.

No, no you can't. Teams we lost to at home we beat on the road under Tim (Oakland). AFC contenders have been beaten (NYJ). Last years Division champs and with proper officiating or 1 more min, we beat SD after a massive halftime deficit.

The two are FAR FROM COMPARABLE.

extralife
11-21-2011, 07:22 PM
Less than 16 carries per game under Collins.

Over 26 carries per game under Young.

Myth = busted

that's what you're going with? Mr. A WIN IS A WIN Rev?

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:27 PM
that's what you're going with? Mr. A WIN IS A WIN Rev?

Just try to refute it.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:27 PM
Look at the quality of defenses for the love of god...

Or do you mean to compare the Rams D with the Jets or Steelers?



No, no you can't. Teams we lost to at home we beat on the road under Tim (Oakland). AFC contenders have been beaten (NYJ). Last years Division champs and with proper officiating or 1 more min, we beat SD after a massive halftime deficit.

The two are FAR FROM COMPARABLE.

Why don't we look at the teams that they played that are the same?
Collins as the starter
Texans Week 2 31-34 L
Jags Week 4 17-37 L
Indy Week 5 9-31 L
Young as the starter
Jags Week 8 30-13 W
Texans Week 11 20-17 W
Indy Week 13 17-27 L

So Young is 2-1 and Collins is 0-3 against the SAME teams.

None of the teams that Tebow beat so far will be in the playoffs. Samething you judge Youngs wins against.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:30 PM
Why don't we look at the teams that they played that are the same?
Collins as the starter
Texans Week 2 31-34 L
Jags Week 4 17-37 L
Indy Week 5 9-31 L
Young as the starter
Jags Week 8 30-13 W
Texans Week 11 20-17 W
Indy Week 13 17-27 L

So Young is 2-1 and Collins is 0-3 against the SAME teams.

None of the teams that Tebow beat so far will be in the playoffs. Samething you judge Youngs wins against.

34-37-31 points

13-17-27 points

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Must be Vince Young...

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:33 PM
34-37-31 points

13-17-27 points

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Must be Vince Young...

Oh so D's don't play better when the O is playing better. Gotcha ya.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:34 PM
^ Meanwhile, in the only competition this season for Orton and Tebow, the defense held the opposition to LESS points under Orton (AT HOME) despite THREE ****ing turnovers in that game compared to ZERO under Tebow (ON THE ROAD)

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Oh so D's don't play better when the O is playing better. Gotcha ya.

See prior post.

I agree that running CJ to the best season ever after he averaged less than 100 yards per game under Collins had a huge impact.

...but that had nothing to do with offenses keying on Young instead of CJ.

Proof: CJ had a significantly higher YPC under Collins (6.3) than under Young (5.4).

So what conclusions can we logically make? It's a reflection of both a dramatically lower quality of competition and responsibility taken AWAY from the QB that lead to the resurgence.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:45 PM
TOP Week 2 Texans 34:03 Titans 25:57 Collins
TOP Week 11 Texans 27:41 Titans 32:19 Young

TOP Week 4 Jags 34:07 Titans 25:53 Collins
TOP Week 8 Jags 20:17 Titans 39:43 Young

TOP Week 5 Indy 33:38 Titans 26:22 Collins
TOp Week 13 Indy 32:59 Titans 27:01 Young

Just like Tebow if Young takes care of the football and the Titans run the ball and control the clock they help the D. It's football 101 Rev.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 07:47 PM
See prior post.

I agree that running CJ to the best season ever after he averaged less than 100 yards per game under Collins had a huge impact.

...but that had nothing to do with offenses keying on Young instead of CJ.

Proof: CJ had a significantly higher YPC under Collins (6.3) than under Young (5.4).

So what conclusions can we logically make? It's a reflection of both a dramatically lower quality of competition and responsibility taken AWAY from the QB that lead to the resurgence.

See my last post. The Titans played ball control football that helped the D out. You can't allow points if you are taking care of the football and controlling the clock.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 07:53 PM
See my last post. The Titans played ball control football that helped the D out. You can't allow points if you are taking care of the football and controlling the clock.

Durrrrrrrrrrrr

I addressed this here:

See prior post.

I agree that running CJ to the best season ever after he averaged less than 100 yards per game under Collins had a huge impact.

...but that had nothing to do with offenses keying on Young instead of CJ.

Proof: CJ had a significantly higher YPC under Collins (6.3) than under Young (5.4).

So what conclusions can we logically make? It's a reflection of both a dramatically lower quality of competition and responsibility taken AWAY from the QB that lead to the resurgence.

If you want to say play-calling was smarter by being more conservative under Young, okay.

But as is, there's still no parallel to draw.

Did you know CJ got more touches in those last 10 games than QUARTERBACK Vince Young did?

Can you point out a player on Denver that even comes CLOSE to Tebow in that regard?

And for Vince, RBs ypc goes down. For Tebow, RBs ypc go way up.

Go figure.

MacGruder
11-21-2011, 07:54 PM
Look at Vince Young's stats his first year. They are very similar to Tebow's..

If Vince had Tebow's intangibles he'd still be a starter now and likely have won championships.

Tebow is a much tougher, far more durable runner than Vince as well.

DBroncos4life
11-21-2011, 08:01 PM
Durrrrrrrrrrrr

I addressed this here:



If you want to say play-calling was smarter by being more conservative under Young, okay.

But as is, there's still no parallel to draw.

Did you know CJ got more touches in those last 10 games than QUARTERBACK Vince Young did?

Can you point out a player on Denver that even comes CLOSE to Tebow in that regard?

And for Vince, RBs ypc goes down. For Tebow, RBs ypc go way up.

Go figure.

You really expect a RB to maintain a 6.3 yard per carry avg when his attempts per game goes up???

Look dude you are my favorite poster on this board, but for the life of me I can't understand how you can't say that the Titans got a huge spark from Young just like Denver does with Tebow. Maybe it's cause you hate Young cause he quit.

When we win posters say we didn't play anyone, Tebow didn't play well, blah, blah. It's no different from what you are saying about Young and the games that he won.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 08:15 PM
You really expect a RB to maintain a 6.3 yard per carry avg when his attempts per game goes up???

Look dude you are my favorite poster on this board, but for the life of me I can't understand how you can't say that the Titans got a huge spark from Young just like Denver does with Tebow. Maybe it's cause you hate Young cause he quit.

When we win posters say we didn't play anyone, Tebow didn't play well, blah, blah. It's no different from what you are saying about Young and the games that he won.

Obviously I love you too. Still...

I definitely hate Young because he quit.

But the reality is Tennessee won games because of a much lighter schedule AND CJ and his impact on the team and the defense.

Denver is winning in a harder patch of schedule because of Tim and HIS impact on the team and the defense.

All of that's a definable fact statistically.

Vince is absolutely talented enough to have the impact Tebow does... but the quitter doesn't care enough to be it. Also a definitive fact.

peacepipe
11-21-2011, 08:21 PM
How can anyone bitch about young when he is 30-17 as a QB. he's a "winner". talk about double standards.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 08:33 PM
How can anyone b**** about young when he is 30-17 as a QB. he's a "winner". talk about double standards.

2006: "I really thought long and hard about it. There was so much going on with my family. It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone. All I was doing was worrying about things."

2009: He pushed away defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who was trying to console him, and took a seat on the bench. When it was time for the Titans to take the field following a three-and-out by the Jaguars, Young appeared as if he didn't want to go back in.

According to David Climer of the Tennesseean, Young apparently attempted to take himself out of the game after throwing an interception in the fourth quarter. Young supposedly tried to blame his reluctance to return on a tightening hamstring, even though he sought no treatment for it while the defense was on the field.

“I came on the field and 10 wasn’t in the huddle,” center Kevin Mawae said of the incident. “I didn’t know what the situation was.”

2010: A source told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen that while the team cannot ban Young from the facility, his presence at future position meetings, practices and games would not be welcome after he walked out on the team following Sunday's loss to the Washington Redskins.







"Winner" indeed. Tebow sure would look nice with Chris Johnson breaking records.

extralife
11-21-2011, 09:13 PM
Just try to refute it.

oh, let's count the ways:

-Young won most of his games and Collins lost most of his. You run more when you're winning. I'm sure you can figure it out.

-Young is a running QB. As you may or may not have noticed over the last few weeks, teams with running QBs tend to use their backs more as well, because a mobile QB helps all facets of the running game.

-Last time I checked, purely isolating 10 carries a game as the only factor that determines the giant disparity in win percentage is actually completely ****ing retarded

-You've led the drum banging on winning being the only measure for properly judging QB play, only to now completely abandon it in any and every scenario that doesn't already conform to your preconceived opinions. all of your arguments and thought processes are narcissistic circles, existing only to feed into one another. I examined idiocy under a microscope recently, and I scientifically determined that this is actually it's chief characteristic. True story.

TheReverend
11-21-2011, 09:27 PM
oh, let's count the ways:

-Young won most of his games and Collins lost most of his. You run more when you're winning. I'm sure you can figure it out.


Sure. We've got a documented history of him quitting when it gets tough so it's easy to collect stats in the easy games.

-Young is a running QB. As you may or may not have noticed over the last few weeks, teams with running QBs tend to use their backs more as well, because a mobile QB helps all facets of the running game.

No it doesn't. Another player receiving a lot of attention from the defense is what helps all facets of the running game. CJ's ypc DECREASED DRASTICALLY under Young.

-Last time I checked, purely isolating 10 carries a game as the only factor that determines the giant disparity in win percentage is actually completely ****ing retarded

Right. And I didnt. I also pointed out the dramatic difference in strength of schedule at that point.

Last time I checked, not reading is completely ****ing retarded.

-You've led the drum banging on winning being the only measure for properly judging QB play, only to now completely abandon it in any and every scenario that doesn't already conform to your preconceived opinions. all of your arguments and thought processes are narcissistic circles, existing only to feed into one another. I examined idiocy under a microscope recently, and I scientifically determined that this is actually it's chief characteristic. True story.

...No I haven't. Not even REMOTELY close.

Don't take your short-comings of being massively wrong on Timmy out on me. It's not my fault you're a failure.