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View Full Version : Empty Seats At Mile High


Turd_Ferguson
11-19-2011, 09:30 PM
I dont live in Denver, but I usually try to make it to at least one game a year. I went to the Jets game Thursday, and was shocked that the stadium didnt come close to being full until almost half time. Is it like that at every game? I couldnt believe this was a prime time game and the place was half full. What gives?

Kid A
11-19-2011, 09:31 PM
Thursday night. Lot of working stiffs can't get off early to get downtown to the stadium on time for a 6:20 start.

Turd_Ferguson
11-19-2011, 09:35 PM
That kinda figures.. That place was definitely rockin by the time the final drive rolled around!

schaaf
11-19-2011, 09:38 PM
My guess would have been a working night

Dukes
11-19-2011, 09:39 PM
Sold out, but something like 3000 no shows. Must have been since it was a weeknight. At least it wasn't full of Jet fans.

epicSocialism4tw
11-19-2011, 09:41 PM
Thursday night.

Turd_Ferguson
11-19-2011, 09:41 PM
Sold out, but something like 3000 no shows. Must have been since it was a weeknight. At least it wasn't full of Jet fans.

I dont know what was worse the, drunken Tele Tubby wearing a Tebow jersey babbling on about being a Dolphins fan that came to watch Tebow, or the drunken Jets fan carrying on about Revis... At least I got to hear the Jets fan get made fun of all the way out the stadium.

orange crusher
11-19-2011, 09:45 PM
Both games I've went to this year were night games and have been like that. For some reason, they've had the Colfax exit closed and the traffic has been flowing slower than normal near the stadium. Some friends that usually park to the north and ride the bus said it took a lot longer than it usually does and they missed the beginning of the game. I'm not sure what they think they're accomplishing by closing the Colfax exit and forcing all the traffic to the other exits. The lines to get in the stadium also seemed slower than normal Thursday night.

DomCasual
11-19-2011, 10:09 PM
What was really pathetic was the empty seats at Arrowhead in the 4th Quarter. It's not as if it was a blowout - the lead was ten, and then seven. Yet the place was almost empty.

bronco militia
11-19-2011, 10:11 PM
night games during the week suck in Denver. The NFL should skip thursday and focus on Saturday night games this time of year

IHaveALight
11-19-2011, 10:14 PM
night games during the week suck in Denver. The NFL should skip thursday and focus on Saturday night games this time of year

10 million people watched the game on TV. The NFL won't be dumping Thursday night football anytime soon.

theAPAOps5
11-19-2011, 10:38 PM
I dont live in Denver, but I usually try to make it to at least one game a year. I went to the Jets game Thursday, and was shocked that the stadium didnt come close to being full until almost half time. Is it like that at every game? I couldnt believe this was a prime time game and the place was half full. What gives?

Well it did fill up later supposedly there was horrid traffic. But yeah this is the little known Orton effect.

Agamemnon
11-19-2011, 10:46 PM
What was really pathetic was the empty seats at Arrowhead in the 4th Quarter. It's not as if it was a blowout - the lead was ten, and then seven. Yet the place was almost empty.

Let's be honest. Ten points might as well be thirty when it comes to the Chiefs' offense.

Kaylore
11-19-2011, 11:35 PM
The night games always take awhile to fill.

Meck77
11-19-2011, 11:40 PM
Traffic and RTD sucks balls.

Bronx33
11-19-2011, 11:44 PM
Traffic and RTD sucks balls.


Some stuff never changes.

broncocalijohn
11-20-2011, 12:19 AM
Some stuff never changes.

What that traffic sucks or that Meck b****en about RTD? ROFL!

dbfan21
11-20-2011, 04:41 AM
10 million people watched the game on TV. The NFL won't be dumping Thursday night football anytime soon.

Also...expect to see the Broncos a lot in prime time next year. Sunday night, Monday night, Thursday night...

Jay3
11-20-2011, 05:00 AM
I dont live in Denver, but I usually try to make it to at least one game a year. I went to the Jets game Thursday, and was shocked that the stadium didnt come close to being full until almost half time. Is it like that at every game? I couldnt believe this was a prime time game and the place was half full. What gives?

They reported a major logjam in traffic. Whatever your main interstate into downtown is.

Dukes
11-20-2011, 06:27 AM
Another thing is the pat downs. It took me 40 minutes just to get into the stadium. I missed the first series and there were A LOT of people behind me in line waiting to get in. This was a cause as well.

Rocket 7
11-20-2011, 07:49 AM
What was really pathetic was the empty seats at Arrowhead in the 4th Quarter. It's not as if it was a blowout - the lead was ten, and then seven. Yet the place was almost empty.

Beginning of the game you could see plenty of empty seats.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oQGvmjlMeqs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Gort
11-20-2011, 09:16 AM
Also...expect to see the Broncos a lot in prime time next year. Sunday night, Monday night, Thursday night...

wouldn't it be cool to see them featured on Hard Knocks next season?

i don't think Elway/Fox/Bowlen would go for it, but with Tebow mania sweeping the nation, and the world, and maybe even the known universe, it would be an interesting choice.

:)

colorado jones
11-20-2011, 09:32 AM
Another thing is the pat downs. It took me 40 minutes just to get into the stadium. I missed the first series and there were A LOT of people behind me in line waiting to get in. This was a cause as well.

This. They should of had double the staff patting people down.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-20-2011, 10:17 AM
Traffic and RTD sucks balls.

I can't believe C-DOT had 2 lanes of southbound I-25 closed down after the game. I swear the area around Sante Fe is always under construction.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-20-2011, 10:18 AM
This. They should of had double the staff patting people down.

Everyone was getting a TSA-style patdown in my line

Bronx33
11-20-2011, 10:19 AM
I can't believe C-DOT had 2 lanes of southbound I-25 closed down after the game. I swear the area around Sante Fe is always under construction.


Its all the people moving in out south the old roads just cant handle the volume and need updating they are just guilty of not doing it sooner to get ahead of the curve but thats par for the course with our DOT.

Rabb
11-20-2011, 10:20 AM
Traffic and RTD sucks balls.

tailgating ftw

Hercules Rockefeller
11-20-2011, 10:22 AM
Light Rail is the same way. When it was approved, they said that by the time it was fully built, the traffic it would alleviate from 25 would have already been replaced by increased driving from the expected population growth.

Bronx33
11-20-2011, 10:23 AM
Another thing is the pat downs. It took me 40 minutes just to get into the stadium. I missed the first series and there were A LOT of people behind me in line waiting to get in. This was a cause as well.


One fool gets a weapon in and security gets the blame sucks you missed the first series but they have to do this for safeties sake its a catch 22.

Bronx33
11-20-2011, 10:24 AM
Light Rail is the same way. When it was approved, they said that by the time it was fully built, the traffic it would alleviate from 25 would have already been replaced by increased driving from the expected population growth.

Over budget as well.

Meck77
11-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Light Rail is the same way. When it was approved, they said that by the time it was fully built, the traffic it would alleviate from 25 would have already been replaced by increased driving from the expected population growth.

Herc....Light rail is a REAL ESTATE DEAL. I spent a year in the trenches getting to know the people and the details of the project.

Sure light rail moves some people but think about it. It's nothing more than a couple fixed lines scattered around a hundred square millions that has millions and millions of people.

Denver use to have a top notch bus service. FastTracks is billions over budget. Billions! There have been 3 tax increases to pay for the project and they need a 4th. Sadly bus services have been cut to try to make up some of the difference. Even NEW light rail service has been cut!

Light rail is a catalyst for real estate development. That's all it is. Other than Bronco games and a few trains in the morning and evenings the light rail is virtually unused. When you are driving down I-25 take a look in the trains. They are always empty. When they are full they are filled with people who don't even pay for them? Why because there is no enforcement and RTD is trying to boost their numbers. If they really checked for tickets the usage numbers would be even worse.

I could write a novel on this subject.

If you go to an RTD meeting the discussion is always Real estate development and not the movement of people around the city.

chawknz
11-20-2011, 06:06 PM
Traffic was an absolute nightmare getting to the stadium. Was crawling from Colfax and York all the way down. Was losing my mind.

I'll stick to light rail from now on.

broncosteven
11-20-2011, 09:20 PM
...
I could write a novel on this subject.

...

If you can find a way to incorporate how great Gene Kranz is I will buy a copy.

enjolras
11-20-2011, 09:26 PM
Over budget as well.

I believe that the previous lines built all came in (well) under budget.

Fast Tracks has been a different story, but the economic meltdown and China's insatiable demand for building materials certainly couldn't have been anticipated back in 2004.

Gort
11-20-2011, 09:29 PM
Herc....Light rail is a REAL ESTATE DEAL. I spent a year in the trenches getting to know the people and the details of the project.

Sure light rail moves some people but think about it. It's nothing more than a couple fixed lines scattered around a hundred square millions that has millions and millions of people.

Denver use to have a top notch bus service. FastTracks is billions over budget. Billions! There have been 3 tax increases to pay for the project and they need a 4th. Sadly bus services have been cut to try to make up some of the difference. Even NEW light rail service has been cut!

Light rail is a catalyst for real estate development. That's all it is. Other than Bronco games and a few trains in the morning and evenings the light rail is virtually unused. When you are driving down I-25 take a look in the trains. They are always empty. When they are full they are filled with people who don't even pay for them? Why because there is no enforcement and RTD is trying to boost their numbers. If they really checked for tickets the usage numbers would be even worse.

I could write a novel on this subject.

If you go to an RTD meeting the discussion is always Real estate development and not the movement of people around the city.

light rail and public transportation is a scam everywhere. it's a fetish of the political left. they will spend billions of taxpayer $$$ just so a couple of dirty hippies in the city can catch a ride on a bus or train for a few blocks. and the tickets are also subsidized by the taxpayer. it's one of the most absurd things about leftwing politics and one of the most reliable tests of one's political beliefs. just ask somebody if we should spend $3B on a light rail that goes 3/4 of a mile. if they say yes, you should just hit them in the face repeatedly.

Bronx33
11-20-2011, 09:36 PM
I believe that the previous lines built all came in (well) under budget.

Fast Tracks has been a different story, but the economic meltdown and China's insatiable demand for building materials certainly couldn't have been anticipated back in 2004.

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_13573154

enjolras
11-20-2011, 09:39 PM
There have been 3 tax increases to pay for the project and they need a 4th.

I've been following pretty closely. I'm not aware of a single tax increase since the initial voter approval of the project in 2004. They tabled in prospects of future tax increases until at least the 2012 ballot.

Sadly bus services have been cut to try to make up some of the difference. Even NEW light rail service has been cut!

This is provably false. The RTD operating budget (what keeps those bus routes moving) and the Fast Tracks general fund are wholly funded from different sources.

What has affected both is very large shortcomings in sales tax revenues. The whole state is pretty much broke, and RTD is no exception. Bus routes have been cut (and light rail service, particularly on the south-west line) have most definitely been reduced. That is more of a consequence of insufficient funds to continue to run them, with no relief in sight.

I'm not a particularly big supporter of Fast Tracks at this point, particularly since those who benefit the most (far-flung suburbs) have by and large refused to step up to help the project along. I think the airport train is going to be a great thing, particularly in moving folks between the city and CU medical. Beyond that, I don't really see the point.

Denver should be investing in fixed-route transit at a MUCH bigger clip than it does today. We SHOULD be (re)building our street car networks with light-priority and dedicated right-of-way (where possible) street cars to make it much easier to move within the actual city. Getting around Denver (the city, not the metro) is just entirely too difficult for the caliber of city that we have.

RhymesayersDU
11-20-2011, 09:51 PM
I dont know what was worse the, drunken Tele Tubby wearing a Tebow jersey babbling on about being a Dolphins fan that came to watch Tebow, or the drunken Jets fan carrying on about Revis... At least I got to hear the Jets fan get made fun of all the way out the stadium.

Crying about Revis? The Jets fan in my row was complaining about Sanchez the whole time. Man do those fans hate him.

ZONA
11-20-2011, 11:32 PM
night games during the week suck in Denver. The NFL should skip thursday and focus on Saturday night games this time of year

I think I read somewhere a few years ago that the NFL and the NCAA have some type of deal where the NFL leaves Saturday for college ball and the NCAA leaves Sunday alone for the NFL.

Meck77
11-21-2011, 06:16 AM
Most people aren't aware of the numerous tax increases for FastTracks. I sat in on numerous legislative sessions at the capital when this was discussed. Representative Al White brought it to the attention of RTD staffers who were lobbying themselves a pay raise at the time. There were two tax increase dating back into the 80's for light rail. The third was the one everyone knows about in 2004.



You should have been going to the RTD board meetings like I did for a full year. You would have heard RTD board members constantly talking about cutting bus service. It's been a regular topic of conversation to try and make up the budget problems. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18752052?source=bb[/QUOTE]

Sure sales tax has taken a hit. What derailed RTD/Fast Tracks was the leadership of RTD and Cal Marsella's transit orient development plan. RTD forgot they were a transportation company and they became land developers. Google TOD RTD.

The answer is not more fixed lines. The answer is Bus Rapid Transit. More fixed lines only serve the real estate they are fixed to. Bus Rapid transit is cheaper and more efficient and most importantly flexible. After the next tax increase fails it will probably come to the forefront as the next best option.

The Transit Orient development lobby is much stronger than the average joe concerned about getting around town.

Enjrolas...........I encourage you to go to some RTD board meetings and legislative sessions when RTD has bill up for vote. You will see nothing but lawyers, paid lobbyists and developers pushing light rail for their own greed. You will not hear any concern for moving people around Denver.

FasTracks has sucked the life out of RTD which once provided good bus service. That is a fact.

enjolras
11-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Most people aren't aware of the numerous tax increases for FastTracks. I sat in on numerous legislative sessions at the capital when this was discussed. Representative Al White brought it to the attention of RTD staffers who were lobbying themselves a pay raise at the time. There were two tax increase dating back into the 80's for light rail. The third was the one everyone knows about in 2004.

FastTracks is a wholly independent program from the previous light rail projects. Those previous tax programs where voter approved and now contribute to the operational budget.

The ONLY FastTracks tax program in existence today was the 2004 initiative.

You should have been going to the RTD board meetings like I did for a full year. You would have heard RTD board members constantly talking about eutting bus service. It's been a regular topic of conversation to try and make up the budget problems. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18752052?source=bb

I've gone to quite a few. I've also attended more or less every FastTracks public forum in the last 4 years.

Again your confusing FastTracks the multi-modal transit expansion and the general operating budget for RTD. The operating budget is sales-tax subsidized while the FastTracks construction and development budget is funded 100% by the 2004 sales tax increase.

They were going to be cutting bus service regardless of the new rail construction (contrary to your assertion that FastTracks was resulting in decreased service). The general operating budget has taken a big hit from lower sales tax revenues and much more expensive gas, and in the post-2008 environment the possibility of further tax-payer subsidy is 0%. The only thing you can do at that point is cut service.

The answer is not more fixed lines. The answer is Bus Rapid Transit. More fixed lines only serve the real estate they are fixed to. Bus Rapid transit is cheaper and more efficient and most importantly flexible. After the next tax increase fails it will probably come to the forefront as the next best option.

I couldn't disagree more. Fixed lines provide permanency and allow for much more sophisticated traffic optimization. If the goal is to move people around quickly and efficiently there really is no comparison. NO ONE builds near bus-stops (that can and do move). Yet many cities have had real success building transit lines and seeing higher-density developments spring up around them. Denver has been no exception (see: the Landmark down south).

Where we do agree is on the idea of subsidizing transit to far flung suburbs. Denver needs intra-city transit. That is easier to get form Lone Tree to Downtown as opposed to Cherry Creek to Downtown is just ridiculous. Fixed light-priority streetcars are the answer to that. It's an infrastructure investment the city NEEDS to make. A variety of factors (I'm looking at you Poundstone amendment) make that very difficult.

I do think RTD is a bit too close, and is probably benefiting too much from land acquisition. I know you had a really unfortunate experience with that, and it sucks. I'm merely trying to provide my perspective (which is not an uneducated one;) ).

bronco militia
11-21-2011, 11:00 AM
I think I read somewhere a few years ago that the NFL and the NCAA have some type of deal where the NFL leaves Saturday for college ball and the NCAA leaves Sunday alone for the NFL.

yes, but this is the time of year college ball is winding down.


anyway, the only people that like thursday night games are the fans watching on TV. It's a big hastle for teams and fans going to the game.