PDA

View Full Version : Lloyd trade re-visited


LetsGoBroncos
11-18-2011, 03:31 PM
Thought it would be interesting to see what everyone thinks. When we traded Lloyd a lot of people thought one of the main reasons we made the trade was because we weren't going anywhere this year so we could use the draft pick. Do we regret the trade now? I don't

Smiling Assassin27
11-18-2011, 03:32 PM
The only thing I regret is that we didn't get a higher pick, but as far as Lloyd being elsewhere, not at all. We'll get a 5th out of it and that helps with the rebuild.

SureShot
11-18-2011, 03:35 PM
Loyd didnt want to be here and and every anti team or Tebow remark from an "unnamed source" was Loyd. He had to go.

mkporter
11-18-2011, 03:35 PM
I think it would be nice to have Lloyd's ability to make difficult catches on imperfectly thrown balls. I get the impression, however, that he wasn't a great locker room guy, however, and this team is largely getting by on playing as a team, so maybe we're better off without him. I think we should have been able to get more than a 5th for him, however.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-18-2011, 03:36 PM
It was dumb then, it is dumb now

ludo21
11-18-2011, 03:38 PM
locker room cancer, good riddance

broncocalijohn
11-18-2011, 03:39 PM
Loyd didnt want to be here and and every anti team or Tebow remark from an "unnamed source" was Loyd. He had to go.

Never saw anything from that and would like to know source. Not saying it couldnt be true and why he wanted out but he had as much success with Tebow as he did with Orton. I didnt like the trade and didnt think we got enough value for him. Now that we are in the thick of the playoff race in our division, we could use a veteran guy like Lloyd. Obviously, Thomas cant block or doesnt want to do it and Decker seems to not be able to catch the tough ball like Lloyd can do. Yeah it sucks because the pick is for next season and we need something this season.

ColoradoDarin
11-18-2011, 03:41 PM
What's our record since that transaction? Addition by subtraction?

Jetmeck
11-18-2011, 03:45 PM
his acrobatic catches are missed by me..............

Bronc62
11-18-2011, 03:52 PM
Lloyd had to go, but I believe a 3rd rounder in return would have been appropriate considering he was all-pro last year & NFL receiving yards leader. Did you see where he made another incredible one-handed grab last week? The guy's a wizard with the hands and body control.

cutthemdown
11-18-2011, 03:53 PM
Naw he was traded because Elway and Fox knew he was going to cry like a bitch and be a bad influence on Decker and Thomas. His first thing in St Louis was pretty much Tebow can't win throwing like he does. Meanwhile Rams getting throttled every week.

Pick Six
11-18-2011, 03:54 PM
With the offense we are currently running, his talents would be wasted. He's having success in St. Louis, so everyone's happy...

bronco_diesel
11-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Thought it would be interesting to see what everyone thinks. When we traded Lloyd a lot of people thought one of the main reasons we made the trade was because we weren't going anywhere this year so we could use the draft pick. Do we regret the trade now? I don't

I like BL, but I think it was addition by subtraction. BL probably had the potential to be a very unhappy camper. I think they are better without him because the team is coming together as unit.

KevinJames
11-18-2011, 04:11 PM
I like 5th round picks so its tough to say.

But I will say Elway made the right move we don't throw the ball much he would be mopey and we might as well develop our young guys.

Archer81
11-18-2011, 04:24 PM
Tebow mentioned how unselfish the current crop of Bronco receivers are. They just want to win. Lloyd does not fit into that statement, and there is no way he would be happy with 1 or 2 catches a game and a win. 2 catches or two passes thrown at him a game does not turn into mega money in contract years.


:Broncos:

Jay3
11-18-2011, 04:28 PM
He's a cancer unless he's getting a lot of balls flung his way. Doesn't care what the game situation is.

campocorto
11-18-2011, 04:31 PM
I think people are making too much of what happened.

Lloyd is in his age 30 year and he is playing for his biggest FA contract of his life. Simply put, I think Lloyd and his agent let the Broncos brass know that it wasn't personal, he just wanted to be in a situation where he could maximize his skills and put up the best numbers.

I don't fault Lloyd at all for wanting to leave or the Broncos for making the trade. The Broncos were 1-4 at the time and he was going to walk anyways without Denver getting any compensation.

Agamemnon
11-18-2011, 04:32 PM
Without knowing the behind the scenes details, I really can't say. I'm still pissed about the dog **** compensation, but whatever...

TotallyScrewed
11-18-2011, 04:34 PM
I just wish there were escalators for Brandon catching more than 30 balls with the Rams. He's going to eclipse 30 easily. It would have been nice to get a low fourth for him.

jutang
11-18-2011, 04:39 PM
It will really depend on how that 5th round draft pick turns out before we can critique the trade. I don't see Lloyd as the best blocker, but then again DT looks like a giant puss.

jhns
11-18-2011, 04:39 PM
I am amazed that so many still feel the McDaniels way is the right way. You can't let players dictate how your team is run. If Lloyd was crying, he should have been told to stfu. If he threatened to not play, we should have laughed as we pointed out that he was about to retire early. If he slacks, he doesn't get paid this offseason.

He would have been happy after we were winning and he was getting just as good of stats anyways. His stats didn't fall off with the switch to Tebow last season. He would have a ton of yards if he was the one going for all the long balls Tebow has thrown the last few weeks.

We have no #1 receiver. Giving away the top two receiver, especially when starting a young QB, was a mistake. It isn't like we even attempted to replace them.

broncosteven
11-18-2011, 05:07 PM
Lloyd was going to take a lot of money to resign and was likely to hold out so I am glad we got a pick for him. Sure I wish it were higher but at least we moved on, we have a good locker room a young team playing hard.

Looking back at the timing with starting Tebow, I do wonder if Fox told Elway/Xanders that they were going to limit pass attempts and to make the move and get an extra pick.

BossBruce
11-18-2011, 05:45 PM
WR blocking is more important than pass catching. DT is a better blocker.

Vine
11-18-2011, 05:52 PM
The only thing I regret is that we didn't get a higher pick, but as far as Lloyd being elsewhere, not at all. We'll get a 5th out of it and that helps with the rebuild.

What rebuild?

Requiem
11-18-2011, 06:12 PM
This fifth rounder will grab us the next Adrian Madise.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-18-2011, 06:19 PM
I'm sorry, its indefenseable. We coulda used him, he'd be catching all those "inaccurate" Tebow passes. A real asset.

People seem to forget that our offense is full of average players. Even our offensive coordinator forgets. Our line, straight up, isnt a great run blocking line. We can run because defenses account for the Tebow option. When he just takes a direct snap and hands off, doesnt work nearly as well because you're eliminating him.

We could use all the talent we can get. lloyd was a talent.

tsiguy96
11-18-2011, 06:32 PM
2 things...
I think it was Bill Williamson who said one of the main reasons he was traded is he was firmly in the Orton camp, and he was traded before tebow made his first start.

2nd, Gil Brandt was saying on Sirius one of the main keys to a successful option offense is the WR ability and willingness to block, as well as a high degree of unselfishness. AKA not Lloyd, so it worked out long term anyway.

Do I think we will get anyone with taht 5th with the impact lloyd had? no way, but I get why they did it, and they were not going to sign him long term regardless.

edit...****ing caps.

gyldenlove
11-18-2011, 06:40 PM
I think the 5th rounder was too low, I am just not a fan of trading proven talent for chump change unless you really do have no alternatives - I just don't think the value he could have had for the team down the stretch with Tebow not being the most accurate of passers measures up to a 5th round pick.

TonyR
11-18-2011, 06:47 PM
The problem we have right now is that no #1 caliber receiver is going to want to play in this offense. And this will be the case until the pass becomes a larger part of Tebow's repertoire.

Dagmar
11-18-2011, 07:05 PM
I like that the response in general is a big "meh".

sinuous sausage
11-18-2011, 07:19 PM
I like that the response in general is a big "meh".

meh

Bronx33
11-18-2011, 07:25 PM
meh

BroncoLover
11-18-2011, 11:01 PM
They should have asked for 5th and if he did 45 catches or X yards for rest of season with STL a 4th. Instead of that 6th and 30 catches. He anyway wants more catches and yards for a fat contract at end of year.. and he would have made it. 6th to 5th was bad, But he had to go. Because he wouldn't have signed.

But if he signed with another team, we would have got a comp pick right ? or am i mistaken there ?

KipCorrington25
11-18-2011, 11:05 PM
Not to mention our anti jheri curl policy. Seriously, it isn't 1986 anymore.

Popps
11-18-2011, 11:31 PM
4th... 5th... you're just taking a stab.

Now that we're at least alive in the division, it hurts a bit more to have lost our best receiver, especially one that could make up for off-target throws.

But, I trust this staff at this point for the most part. I assume there must have been good reason he needed to go.

DT needs to put on big boy pants.

long beach bronco
11-19-2011, 12:10 AM
If Lloyd was still here in the way we are playing offense now, Tebow still would be throwing downfield to him and he would be making alot of catches. We could have used him. I just wish he had a better attitude, no room here for selfishness.

BroncoLover
11-19-2011, 12:19 AM
4th... 5th... you're just taking a stab.

Now that we're at least alive in the division, it hurts a bit more to have lost our best receiver, especially one that could make up for off-target throws.

But, I trust this staff at this point for the most part. I assume there must have been good reason he needed to go.

DT needs to put on big boy pants.

I read somewhere that DT wants to be like CJ because they both came from GTech and says he looks up to him. If he looks closer and plays 75% like him.. then we will in good shape in passing game as well

RhymesayersDU
11-19-2011, 12:34 AM
I'm fine with the trade. As I see it:

1) He's not that great. And I know this is going to sound like me badmouthing a former player, but look at the stats. Last year was CLEARLY an aberration, and not an indication of future success. In fact, he had 0 touchdowns and not many yards in the 4 games he played with his boy Kyle Orton this season. I mean, I can appreciate his spectacular catches, but one good year does not make a stud WR. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4582/brandon-lloyd

2) We got something for him, which is positive. The way I see it, we could have gotten nothing and watched some team overpay him, or we would have panicked an overpaid him ourselves. People think the compensation was low, but I say look at the stats above. What team in their right mind gives up anything above a 5th for him? A 4th, maybe. But that's clearly the ceiling.

3) I don't get overly worked up by these "lockerroom cancers" and all that, but if he was an issue behind the scenes, it's probably good he's gone. Again, I think the media and fans overhype these issues on a yearly basis, but if there was a legitimate problem, it's now solved.

I don't understand how people could be upset with the trade, unless you knew at the time that Tebow would turn us around, AND you wanted him to be re-signed or were fine with letting him walk. I mean, sitting at 1-4, did anybody think we'd actually need the guy in any meaningful way this year? If you did, play the lottery. Given the circumstances at the time, we did fine IMO.

Taco John
11-19-2011, 01:15 AM
Lloyd is definitely a "me" player. I wish he wasn't, because his ability is undeniable. But the tradition of this team is guys like Rod Smith and Eddie McCaffrey. Vance Johnson. Ricky Nattiel. Steve Watson. Our receivers are team guys who work hard for wins first and foremost, not their own numbers.

SureShot
11-19-2011, 02:15 AM
The problem we have right now is that no #1 caliber receiver is going to want to play in this offense. And this will be the case until the pass becomes a larger part of Tebow's repertoire.

I would stay away from FA wide receivers as a rule period. There are always good wrs to be had in the draft that just want a chance in the league.

dsmoot
11-19-2011, 04:28 AM
I'm fine with the trade. As I see it:

1) He's not that great. And I know this is going to sound like me badmouthing a former player, but look at the stats. Last year was CLEARLY an aberration, and not an indication of future success. In fact, he had 0 touchdowns and not many yards in the 4 games he played with his boy Kyle Orton this season. I mean, I can appreciate his spectacular catches, but one good year does not make a stud WR. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4582/brandon-lloyd

2) We got something for him, which is positive. The way I see it, we could have gotten nothing and watched some team overpay him, or we would have panicked an overpaid him ourselves. People think the compensation was low, but I say look at the stats above. What team in their right mind gives up anything above a 5th for him? A 4th, maybe. But that's clearly the ceiling.

3) I don't get overly worked up by these "lockerroom cancers" and all that, but if he was an issue behind the scenes, it's probably good he's gone. Again, I think the media and fans overhype these issues on a yearly basis, but if there was a legitimate problem, it's now solved.

I don't understand how people could be upset with the trade, unless you knew at the time that Tebow would turn us around, AND you wanted him to be re-signed or were fine with letting him walk. I mean, sitting at 1-4, did anybody think we'd actually need the guy in any meaningful way this year? If you did, play the lottery. Given the circumstances at the time, we did fine IMO.

Well stated. The Broncos used all the leverage they really had. There was no real competition for his services. He walked at the end of a season that is going nowhere for what. Minimize risk, maximize reward. Job well done.

Play2win
11-19-2011, 10:19 AM
Maybe they were doing the Shanahan thing, and basically letting the player go, to let the player maximize their own future. They did Lloyd a favor. (better resume for his next contract)

Play2win
11-19-2011, 10:22 AM
Its not only losing Lloyd, but also Gaff. If our #1 and #2 was Lloyd and Gaff, things are 1000% different.

But, obviously we want our WRs to be serious run blockers, who can also catch the ball (sometimes).

titan
11-19-2011, 10:33 AM
But if he signed with another team, we would have got a comp pick right ? or am i mistaken there ?

I heard Elway say the Lloyd comp pick would have been for the 2013 draft, so the Broncos preferred a sure 5th or 6th rounder for the 2012 draft instead.

I'm ok with the trade. I think one of these games we are going to see a break out performance by Demaryius Thomas, and trading Lloyd opened up more playing time for DT.

ward63
11-19-2011, 05:08 PM
Its not only losing Lloyd, but also Gaff. If our #1 and #2 was Lloyd and Gaff, things are 1000% different.

But, obviously we want our WRs to be serious run blockers, who can also catch the ball (sometimes).

In all honesty...If I had to chose one, I definitely would bring back Gaffney in a heartbeat!

broncocalijohn
11-19-2011, 06:44 PM
The problem we have right now is that no #1 caliber receiver is going to want to play in this offense. And this will be the case until the pass becomes a larger part of Tebow's repertoire.

I was thinking the very same thing. Only way we get a good receiver is one that we draft. No way we are going after a receiver in the first 3 rounds IMO.

broncocalijohn
11-19-2011, 06:46 PM
I heard Elway say the Lloyd comp pick would have been for the 2013 draft, so the Broncos preferred a sure 5th or 6th rounder for the 2012 draft instead.

I'm ok with the trade. I think one of these games we are going to see a break out performance by Demaryius Thomas, and trading Lloyd opened up more playing time for DT.

Well, if he isnt going to be catching many balls, can he at least ****ing block for his RBs and especially his QB while being exposed in the open field. Ive seen some good blockers with Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey down the field so my patience is low for a guy like Demaryius Thomas.

Play2win
11-19-2011, 08:04 PM
In all honesty...If I had to chose one, I definitely would bring back Gaffney in a heartbeat!

He sure would be nice to have. I'm sure he would some up big for Tebow!! :thumbsup:

TotallyScrewed
11-19-2011, 08:59 PM
Maybe they were doing the Shanahan thing, and basically letting the player go, to let the player maximize their own future. They did Lloyd a favor. (better resume for his next contract)

Right now, this looks like a TEAM and PLAYERS oriented FO. I agree with your idea...Let Lloyd maximize his value and his personal style of play. I don't see it as "doing him a favor" but more as "doing right by the player" and giving him the choice.

And think about this too...

1) FO 100% backed Orton at start of season. I think every player wants a clear direction and no split in the locker room.

2) Once it was clear, overly clear, that Orton wasn't getting any better. They pulled the trigger on starting Tebow. And I think that every team (i.e. all of the players on that team) wants to believe that their FO is working towards success each and every year. After all, many of these players will only have 3-4 years in the league, and throwing one away is not acceptable. SO, the Denver FO didn't give up and go suck for Luck.

3) Since they made the switch, they've made serious efforts to maximize Tebow's style within their game planning. Each game the play calling is looking better.

So I'm pretty happy with the FO and their attitude around the players and this season.


Lastly, Tebow is the anti-locker room cancer; perhaps the ultimate anti-locker room cancer. Tim is causing this team to play better, to play together in all phases. A faith healer, if you will. I think we will see more, better effort, from everyone on the team as time goes by because they believe not just in Tim but in each other. That's the really big difference in Winners and Losers...Confidence. That unshakable confidence in each other and not wanting to let the other guy down. Drives like the last one on Thursday night, build that confidence.

Players, including great free agents, will want to play for Denver and with Tim Tebow.

maher_tyler
11-20-2011, 12:00 AM
Should have been a 4th round pick minimum imo.

Archer81
11-20-2011, 12:10 AM
I'm sorry, its indefenseable. We coulda used him, he'd be catching all those "inaccurate" Tebow passes. A real asset.


We had a game where 8 passes total were thrown the entire time. Lloyd is a WR who needs the ball thrown at him 8x a game. No one believes Lloyd would have been ok with maybe 1 or 2 targets a game. He is not the kind of guy to keep his opinion to himself and he would be the jackass in public making comments about the direction of the team.

We went young, we went with unselfish guys. Lloyd is neither.

:Broncos:

Agamemnon
11-20-2011, 12:18 AM
We had a game where 8 passes total were thrown the entire time. Lloyd is a WR who needs the ball thrown at him 8x a game. No one believes Lloyd would have been ok with maybe 1 or 2 targets a game. He is not the kind of guy to keep his opinion to himself and he would be the jackass in public making comments about the direction of the team.

We went young, we went with unselfish guys. Lloyd is neither.

:Broncos:

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but in the end we still got crap value for our best receiver. And that kind of annoys me...

Archer81
11-20-2011, 12:30 AM
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but in the end we still got crap value for our best receiver. And that kind of annoys me...


Considering Lloyd's stats 8 of the 9 years he has played, a 5th is more than adequate compensation. One 70 catch, 1400 yard season does not make Lloyd an all star, nor make a high pick for him feasible.

At any rate, dude's gone. To St Louis where he is paired with McDaniels. Life goes on.

:Broncos:

SonOfLe-loLang
11-20-2011, 12:45 AM
We had a game where 8 passes total were thrown the entire time. Lloyd is a WR who needs the ball thrown at him 8x a game. No one believes Lloyd would have been ok with maybe 1 or 2 targets a game. He is not the kind of guy to keep his opinion to himself and he would be the jackass in public making comments about the direction of the team.

We went young, we went with unselfish guys. Lloyd is neither.

:Broncos:

We gave him away for NOTHING. I'd prefer to have an incredibly acrobatic receiver (and the 8 pass game was an anomaly) than nothing. And before he supported Orton, he supported Tebow. I'd prefer to have him around.

ZONA
11-20-2011, 12:48 AM
I too wish we could have gotten a 3rd for him but a 5th was all we got, probably due to his age.

It was best to move him. He would definitely not have been on board with this run 1st mentality.

Agamemnon
11-20-2011, 12:53 AM
I too wish we could have gotten a 3rd for him but a 5th was all we got, probably due to his age.

It was best to move him. He would definitely not have been on board with this run 1st mentality.

We got a 5th for the guy because we came out and said we would take a 5th for the guy. It's pretty simple really.

Agamemnon
11-20-2011, 12:56 AM
Considering Lloyd's stats 8 of the 9 years he has played, a 5th is more than adequate compensation. One 70 catch, 1400 yard season does not make Lloyd an all star, nor make a high pick for him feasible.

At any rate, dude's gone. To St Louis where he is paired with McDaniels. Life goes on.

:Broncos:

I'm not saying we should've gotten all-pro value for him. There's a huge range between a conditional 5th and all-pro value though.

RhymesayersDU
11-20-2011, 11:03 AM
Based on his career numbers and age, what did you expect for compensation? Who was going to give any kind of high pick?

Old Dude
11-20-2011, 06:02 PM
The way the Rams are losing, it almost is a fourth round pick.

Tim
11-20-2011, 06:13 PM
slightly off topic, but anybody have a clue what round pick denver gives to cleveland this year for brady quinn?

Bronx33
11-20-2011, 06:15 PM
slightly off topic, but anybody have a clue what round pick denver gives to cleveland this year for brady quinn?


a 2011 sixth-round draft pick and a conditional pick in 2012

CEH
11-20-2011, 06:42 PM
Use it to trade up in the 2nd for someone we like otherwise for me its a no-op
Kuper was a 5th correct? Who else in the last 10 years in all the NFL

Tim
11-20-2011, 07:02 PM
a 2011 sixth-round draft pick and a conditional pick in 2012

I'll take that as, 'I don't know but i'll post up anyway' :peace:

Bronx33
11-20-2011, 07:07 PM
I'll take that as, 'I don't know but i'll post up anyway' :peace:

So thats what i get for being nice..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4995081

Tim
11-20-2011, 07:14 PM
:) thanks for the reply, I was just curious about this year's pick (the 2012 conditional) is all. :cowgirl: