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View Full Version : Schlereth on Mike and Mike this morning


LetsGoBroncos
11-17-2011, 06:41 AM
Said that the Broncos organization has already decided Tebow won't be the quarterback past this season and that is the reason they are running this offense now.....they think they can win with it this year and that is it. Said they will be drafting a QB

LetsGoBroncos
11-17-2011, 06:48 AM
If someone wants to tell me how to edit the title of the thread I will

The Joker
11-17-2011, 06:50 AM
Click 'Edit'.

Then 'Go Advanced'

You should be able to change the title from there.

The Joker
11-17-2011, 06:56 AM
Anyway, doesn't seem like it makes much sense to install such a special offense for Tebow if we've decided he's gone after this year.

We've lots of other young players on offense that need to be evaluated, if the future has been 100% decided to be a conventional offense surely it makes more sense to evaluate those guys in that than in what we're running now.

Also they're creating a massive headache for themselves allowing Tebow to be effective. Be easier to move on if he was a complete mess.

Paladin
11-17-2011, 06:56 AM
Why is is it such a big deal? Teams draft players every year. Moreover, since Orton and Quinn will not be back, it makes sense to draft a QB if a decent one is available. If they want to run the Options, they may draft Griffin, If now, maybe Weedan is the choice. It all depends on where they draft.

tsiguy96
11-17-2011, 07:00 AM
schlereth has been anti-tebow since the beginning, and given that the coaching staff is surely split on tebow, im sure his source is one of the "non tebow" guys.

of course they will draft a QB, but i doubt taht proves they will be moving on after this season. especially if this is a success, that will be a surefire way to lose a fan base.

jhns
11-17-2011, 07:03 AM
They may not have much choice if he keeps winning. If they bring in a new QB to replace the winning QB, he is going to have to play mistake free football. He will have to win or people will start hating him. People talk about how Tebow is the worst ever, but reality is there have been much worse QB performances this year. There are very few young guys that would be winning with this team, even against the mediocre teams. It also would make them look even dumber for giving away their two top receivers if they already had plans to bring in another young guy. That is not how you help young QBs.

Fox and Elway will find themselves on the street if they start making moves just to make moves. They can only make a move if they find a guy that will win more games.

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 07:12 AM
This doesn't make any sense, imo.

If they had decided he wasn't the QB they'd put him in situations they expect him to fail and not play up to some his bigger strengths.

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 07:12 AM
Anyway, doesn't seem like it makes much sense to install such a special offense for Tebow if we've decided he's gone after this year.

We've lots of other young players on offense that need to be evaluated, if the future has been 100% decided to be a conventional offense surely it makes more sense to evaluate those guys in that than in what we're running now.

Also they're creating a massive headache for themselves allowing Tebow to be effective. Be easier to move on if he was a complete mess.

Repped

Jay3
11-17-2011, 07:13 AM
The story has not been written yet.

It can end with "but then Tebow's passing improved dramatically, something clicked and he became an effective passer out of this offense."

Or it can end with "They won a few games but the league adjusted and Tebow couldn't make them pay with his arm."


They'll backtrack if they have to, and you'll forget it ever seemed like this was a one season experiment. Or, it will seem like a one season experiment all along.

RunSilentRunDeep
11-17-2011, 07:15 AM
I liked Stink when he was on the field peeing in his pants. When he's crapping out of his mouth in front of a microphone, not so much.

Ironlung
11-17-2011, 07:17 AM
One would think Schlereth used to be a Raider the way he bashes the Broncos. This has been going on way before Tebow too.

footstepsfrom#27
11-17-2011, 07:18 AM
I rather doubt any coach told him this, not unless he's an utter moron because that's not information that the coaching staff would want out there even if it was true and I'm 100% sure that Fox would not be pleased if he knew his coaches were leaking stuff like that to the press. Schlereth is afflicted with the same disease these other clowns are, the desire to say something brilliant or insightful, and since most of them are neither, they choose instead to take the Woody Paige/Skip Bayless approach and try to draw attention to themselves by stirring up controversy. Fine...it's the way these guys stay employed I suppose. Tebow is winning, and he's doing so by his mere presence in the huddle as much as he is with his feet and his moxy. If we dump this guy this early into his career then we deserve to lose and lose big once again next year. We're not going to get Luck and no other QB in that draft is going to come in here and do as much as Tebow is doing to win games.

I can't wait to see these guys eat crow on this kid. It's gonne be sweet.

theAPAOps5
11-17-2011, 07:20 AM
schlereth has been anti-tebow since the beginning, and given that the coaching staff is surely split on tebow, im sure his source is one of the "non tebow" guys.

of course they will draft a QB, but i doubt taht proves they will be moving on after this season. especially if this is a success, that will be a surefire way to lose a fan base.

Actually he has been pro Tebow. Said that he is a winner and that he would find a way to succed when they drafted him. Has been harder on him this year because he can't throw (his words).

I used to know where the soundbite was, about him praising Tebow. Wanted to bring it out because he is clowning him a lot this year on his local radio show.

RaiderH8r
11-17-2011, 07:22 AM
List of "analysts" who should be fired if Tebow gets this club to 8-8. They should be fired twice if we win the division. This isn't a comprehensive list so feel free to add what I've missed.

Hoge
Stink
Cowherd
Chris Carter
Keyshawn
Dilfer

theAPAOps5
11-17-2011, 07:23 AM
List of "analysts" who should be fired if Tebow gets this club to 8-8. They should be fired twice if we win the division. This isn't a comprehensive list so feel free to add what I've missed.

Hoge
Stink
Cowherd
Chris Carter
Keyshawn
Dilfer

So anyone who covers the NFL should be fired if they are wrong on ONE guy. That is just stupid.

Granted this is a unique situation. But come on.

Powderaddict
11-17-2011, 07:24 AM
The story has not been written yet.

It can end with "but then Tebow's passing improved dramatically, something clicked and he became an effective passer out of this offense."

Or it can end with "They won a few games but the league adjusted and Tebow couldn't make them pay with his arm."


They'll backtrack if they have to, and you'll forget it ever seemed like this was a one season experiment. Or, it will seem like a one season experiment all along.

I agree 100%.

His audition isn't over. He has an opportunity, it's up to him to make endear himself to the staff. If he doesn't, at least they tried.

I'm just happy to see the coaching staff be daring, take risks, and go against convention. It shows they can and will do what they think gives them a chance to win.

jhns
11-17-2011, 07:29 AM
So anyone who covers the NFL should be fired if they are wrong on ONE guy. That is just stupid.

No but they should be laughed at. Kind of like everyone that defended McDaniels. Same with those that defended Orton. These people can't really claim to know what they are talking about.

ColoradoDarin
11-17-2011, 07:32 AM
Please, please keep this up. You don't think every word drives Tebow?

MOAR. MOAR!

theAPAOps5
11-17-2011, 07:33 AM
No but they should be laughed at. Kind of like everyone that defended McDaniels. Same with those that defended Orton. These people can't really claim to know what they are talking about.

Yes they should be more than laughed at they should be ridiculed!

Like the local radio guy who will get his first tattoo that will be dedicated to Tebow if they get to 8 and 8. Made the bet thinking they had no chance!

Jay3
11-17-2011, 07:34 AM
This game has a way of teeing up moments that give players a chance to make a play.

It's all well and good to say "They won't let him pass." But if they get behind, he'll have to. And if he shines, the story changes.

If he can put together some games that start like KC and Raiders, but end like Chargers and Dolphins, people will start to change their tune (even though Tebow has shown the ability to generate comeback magic with his passing a bunch of times).

What he has struggled with is just opening up in the Broncos regular passing attack where he takes timed drops, makes reads, and delivers the ball quickly while Orlando Franklin is getting blown up. He's got such a "no interception" mindset that he just hasn't been able to pull the trigger and throw receivers open (and his mechanics aren't conducive to that either).

But that's not how things are in the 4th quarter -- he can get in the gun, scramble, run for 15 yard chunks, throw to receivers.

And even though close evaluators will realize nothing has really changed with his style, the easy-headline commentators will say "Tebow brought them back in the 4th quarter, went 17 of 30 for the game, maybe he can throw."

CEH
11-17-2011, 07:34 AM
Better interview right now on 102.3 . Shannon Sharpe and TD talking Tebow.
Sharpe woud become frustrated playing with Tim and 8 passes a game.
TD is sticking up for Tebow. Says he doesn't make WR better but the players seem to want to pay with him. Sharpe said Plummer won games. He might make Shannon a liar but he doesn't think Tebow is accurate enough.

Very entertaining interview.

Interview should be up mid morning

Tebow calling himself a football player first over QB. Seems like an odd statement for a QB to make.

The Joker
11-17-2011, 07:34 AM
Repped

'ppreciate that.

RunSilentRunDeep
11-17-2011, 07:35 AM
So anyone who covers the NFL should be fired if they are wrong on ONE guy. That is just stupid.

Granted this is a unique situation. But come on.

Agreed, but I think the frustration is over lazy, narrow-minded analysts that simply don't do their homework or are not willing to consider unconventional ways of doing things.

But in Hoge's (Brian Brohm is better the Aaron Rodgers, Kellen Clemens is a better prospect the Vince Young and Jay Cutler) and Cris Carter' (Calvin Johnson) case, there is a pattern of remarkable stupidity.

cutthemdown
11-17-2011, 07:35 AM
Most of these players just guess as to what they think is going on. Then they act like they know so people think they have inside information. No way Elway and Xandars are going to tell stinky, who works for the media, what the definite plans for the team are.

Just a guess. Still we probably will draft a QB because Orton and Quin will most likely be leaving. One through FA the other just because I don't think Broncos want him either.

The Joker
11-17-2011, 07:36 AM
Better interview right now on 102.3 . Shannon Sharpe and TD talking Tebow.
Sharpe woud become frustrated playing with Tim and 8 passes a game.
TD is sticking up for Tebow. Says he doesn't make WR better but the payers seem to want to pay with him. Sharpe said Plummer won games. He might make Shannon a liar but he doesn't think Tebow is accurate enough.

Very entertaining interview.

Interview should be up mid morning

So the runner would like playing with him but the pass catcher wouldn't?

Stunning developments! Ha!

bendog
11-17-2011, 07:37 AM
Tebow ... there I said it. My day is complete.

CEH
11-17-2011, 07:38 AM
So the runner would like playing with him but the pass catcher wouldn't?

Stunning developments! Ha!

Probably the same thing going on right now insdie the lockerroom. Eric Decker could be a star in the making but not with 2 passes a game

The Joker
11-17-2011, 07:40 AM
Probably the same thing going on right now insdie the lockerroom. Eric Decker could be a star in the making but not with 2 passes a game

I'm sure the plan is for more passes to be worked into the gameplan down the line.

Also, he's rarely going to be seeing anything even resembling double coverage in this offense, he'll have a lot of chances to make plays.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-17-2011, 07:41 AM
I hope he proves him wrong.

MplsBronco
11-17-2011, 07:43 AM
As I think Jhns said, if Tebow wins this year, god forbid the division even, how can they make a change? That will not go over with the fanbase.

theAPAOps5
11-17-2011, 07:44 AM
Agreed, but I think the frustration is over lazy, narrow-minded analysts that simply don't do their homework or are not willing to consider unconventional ways of doing things.

But in Hoge's (Brian Brohm is better the Aaron Rodgers, Kellen Clemens is a better prospect the Vince Young and Jay Cutler) and Cris Carter' (Calvin Johnson) case, there is a pattern of remarkable stupidity.

No those two clowns should be muzzled and put to pasture. I agree!

55CrushEm
11-17-2011, 07:45 AM
This doesn't make any sense, imo.

If they had decided he wasn't the QB they'd put him in situations they expect him to fail and not play up to some his bigger strengths.

Unless, they only want to make him look good for raising his trade value.

rock
11-17-2011, 07:45 AM
If that's the case, then so be it.

I'll say this: It will come back to haunt them. 100% believe that.

theAPAOps5
11-17-2011, 07:46 AM
As I think Jhns said, if Tebow wins this year, god forbid the division even, how can they make a change? That will not go over with the fanbase.

Well the new fan base called the Denver TEBOWS would be outraged. The Denver Broncos fans would just be upset and if the replacement ended up being successful would cheer for them too.

There is a distinct difference. I think the Broncos would bet on the Denver Broncos fans being more forgiving. But if it backfired, they will regret the day they even made the change.

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 07:48 AM
Unless, they only want to make him look good for raising his trade value.

Just in case someone else wants to implement a complete system overhaul...?

TheDave
11-17-2011, 07:49 AM
If he proves he can throw the ball with some level of consistency all this talk goes away... Unfortunately 2 of 8 isn't going to quiet the skeptics.

RaiderH8r
11-17-2011, 07:49 AM
So anyone who covers the NFL should be fired if they are wrong on ONE guy. That is just stupid.

Granted this is a unique situation. But come on.

It is one thing to be wrong. Hell, we expect these aholes to be wrong. But these guys have been vindictive, visceral, unwavering, and absolutist in their determination that not only would Tebow struggle, but that he would absolutely and utterly fail. If this type of "analysis" has been taken with respect to any other NFL player by so many so often I can't recall.

55CrushEm
11-17-2011, 07:50 AM
Just in case someone else wants to implement a complete system overhaul...?

If another team decides that they are willing to build an offense around Tebow....why not?

jhns
11-17-2011, 07:50 AM
Well the new fan base called the Denver TEBOWS would be outraged. The Denver Broncos fans would just be upset and if the replacement ended up being successful would cheer for them too.

There is a distinct difference. I think the Broncos would bet on the Denver Broncos fans being more forgiving. But if it backfired, they will regret the day they even made the change.

This happened with the change to Orton, who was booed a lot through his first training camp and preseason. This was before Tebow. You are way too obsessed with Tebow. Bronco fans are not classy.

Some fans will love the move, many will boo(if he continues winning this season).

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 07:50 AM
If he proves he can throw the ball with some level of consistency all this talk goes away... Unfortunately 2 of 8 isn't going to quiet the skeptics.

You didn't think he threw it consistently in those limited attempts?

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 07:51 AM
If another team decides that they are willing to build an offense around Tebow....why not?

Sure but that's greeeeeeeeeeeeatly reducing the market, imo.

BroncoBen
11-17-2011, 07:52 AM
This doesn't make any sense, imo.

If they had decided he wasn't the QB they'd put him in situations they expect him to fail and not play up to some his bigger strengths.

Humm... I think the Broncos do want to win, so playing up to Tebow's strengths is the best option to win right now. But this doesn't mean that this is the future for the Broncos.

Bottom line, Tebow is not Elways or Foxs pick for QB, he was McDanials and are stuck with him.

I can see the Broncos drafting a QB and try to move Tebow if there are any takers. At this point I doubt it, cause it would mean a team having to tailor a whole offense to fit him.

jhns
11-17-2011, 07:52 AM
If he proves he can throw the ball with some level of consistency all this talk goes away... Unfortunately 2 of 8 isn't going to quiet the skeptics.

And they should all be taken just as seriously as you. The guy who claims he is the smartest evee as he backs Orton starting. 4-3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4-14 little buddy.

RaiderH8r
11-17-2011, 07:52 AM
There was a time when I would have believed the Broncos and their fans to be ecstatic to have gone on the road and beaten the Fade and Queefs in consecutive weeks. Tha hell is wrong with people?

As for Stink, I think he's been spending too much time with CC and the stupid is rubbing off.

TheDave
11-17-2011, 07:53 AM
You didn't think he threw it consistently in those limited attempts?

Not enough for this league... no where near.

Now like I have said this spread option attack is showing me we can throw it a lot less other teams, but there will still come a time where he needs to throw darts and until he shows he can do that... well... the talk will continue.

fontaine
11-17-2011, 07:57 AM
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/c44f75ba38.jpg

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 08:02 AM
Not enough for this league... no where near.

Now like I have said this spread option attack is showing me we can throw it a lot less other teams, but there will still come a time where he needs to throw darts and until he shows he can do that... well... the talk will continue.

Really?

He had some REALLY good downfield throws.

Frankly the only bad pass (since Fox extolled the dirtball throw) was the under-thrown one to Decker. The others were dropped or no call PI's.

ColoradoDarin
11-17-2011, 08:04 AM
Really?

He had some REALLY good downfield throws.

Frankly the only bad pass (since Fox extolled the dirtball throw) was the under-thrown one to Decker. The others were dropped or no call PI's.

He really could have been 5/7 + the PI that wasn't called on the deep throw to Royal.

TheDave
11-17-2011, 08:08 AM
Really?

He had some REALLY good downfield throws.

Frankly the only bad pass (since Fox extolled the dirtball throw) was the under-thrown one to Decker. The others were dropped or no call PI's.

With 55 runs I agree he had plenty of time to set up and throw, so yes his mechanics were "better" and as a result his throws were "better"... but IMO they are still not good enough. Not saying he can't develop just stating that he still has an amazingly long way to go...

As fox said "If he was in a conventional offense he would be screwed."

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 08:08 AM
He really could have been 5/7 + the PI that wasn't called on the deep throw to Royal.

Yeah, i don't get knocking his consistency this game.

Small sample size for sure, but excluding 2, those balls were on the money.

Chris
11-17-2011, 08:11 AM
One would think Schlereth used to be a Raider the way he bashes the Broncos. This has been going on way before Tebow too.

Schlereth is a me-first soap opera loving douche.

Old Dude
11-17-2011, 08:13 AM
We're barely halfway through the season and Tebow's only started 4 games. I doubt the front office has made up its mind about anything at this point.

TonyR
11-17-2011, 08:23 AM
We're barely halfway through the season and Tebow's only started 4 games. I doubt the front office has made up its mind about anything at this point.

Agree. And watch how the winds change if Tebow plays poorly and the Broncos get blown out tonight. It's funny how quickly sentiment changes in the NFL. After the Detroit game it was time to go a different direction at the QB position. Now after two wins Tebow is the future of not just the Broncos but the NFL. What will the story be tomorrow? We're about to find out...

BabyTO
11-17-2011, 08:24 AM
why the hell would we get rid of a winning QB to get a new QB who might not be a winner? that sounds retarded.

if tebow leads us to the playoffs it would be the dumbest thing in the world to draft a new franchise QB. of course if tebow loses every game from now on they probably will and should draft another guy to compete with tebow. but to say we are already looking for a new franchise QB is retarded. tebow is winning right now and like i said if we make the playoffs theres no way we can move on without him

OrangeCrush2724
11-17-2011, 08:27 AM
Yeah, i don't get knocking his consistency this game.

Small sample size for sure, but excluding 2, those balls were on the money.

I wouldn't say they were on the money (from what I remember, and I could be wrong). The one to Decker was perfect. The others were a little short, the WR had to slow down, and really make a great play to come down with the ball. They were also played well defensively on those plays.

I have my doubts on Tebow for the future. I don't think he can throw it when he is forced to throw it. All this 2/8 passing is dandy if the running game is working. There will be days, when it doesn't and a QB needs to pass to move the chains. I have my doubts, but I am rooting for him bc he is our QB at the time. The thing is he is going to need time to develop his passing game; and that is something the coaches have no confidence in him to do (running QB sneaks on 3rd and 8ths).

jhns
11-17-2011, 08:32 AM
I wouldn't say they were on the money (from what I remember, and I could be wrong). The one to Decker was perfect. The others were a little short, the WR had to slow down, and really make a great play to come down with the ball. They were also played well defensively on those plays.

I have my doubts on Tebow for the future. I don't think he can throw it when he is forced to throw it. All this 2/8 passing is dandy if the running game is working. There will be days, when it doesn't and a QB needs to pass to move the chains. I have my doubts, but I am rooting for him bc he is our QB at the time. The thing is he is going to need time to develop his passing game; and that is something the coaches have no confidence in him to do (running QB sneaks on 3rd and 8ths).



He has multiple come from behind wins where he passed for the win. This was while defenses knew he had to pass. I really don't get this line of thinking. People still try to claim he can't do it. With three of his four wins being comebacks, I see posters continually claim that we can't fall behind or we are screwed. This stuff doesn't make any sense to me. "I know he keeps doing it, but I don't think he can do it!"

Steve Prefontaine
11-17-2011, 08:35 AM
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UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> People are delusional thinking that Tebow could have gone 5/8 or 6/8 in this game. It’s just not realistic.


4 out of 8 throws were 35 yards are longer and 3 of those were 40 yards (35 to Decker, 40 to Royal, 40 to Decker, 40 to Decker for the game winner). Could someone give me a realistic completion percentage on these? Because last year of throws over 20 yards, Aaron Rodgers completed 38%. I can’t find the numbers for throws 35 or longer, but I’m sure that percentage drops greatly.


Of the 4 remaining throws last Sunday, 1 was complete. 2 were clear drops. And 1 is debatable whether it was a bad throw or a good decision. I’ll error with Fox on this one that Tebow made a good decision, but it could be argued the other way and it doesn’t make much of a difference.


If you want to continue using "2 for 8" as your argument, go ahead. But it's pretty ignorant. Tebow played really well last game. Maybe not great, but it's hard to be great on 8 attempts when half your attempts called for low percentage deep balls.

Gort
11-17-2011, 08:35 AM
Please, please keep this up. You don't think every word drives Tebow?

MOAR. MOAR!

some people just don't belong in the NFL. they should never be drafted because they can't succeed. the talking heads know what is best. move along. these are not the droids you are looking for.

http://www.nfl.com/player/dougflutie/2500660/profile

Gort
11-17-2011, 08:38 AM
why the hell would we get rid of a winning QB to get a new QB who might not be a winner? that sounds retarded.

if tebow leads us to the playoffs it would be the dumbest thing in the world to draft a new franchise QB. of course if tebow loses every game from now on they probably will and should draft another guy to compete with tebow. but to say we are already looking for a new franchise QB is retarded. tebow is winning right now and like i said if we make the playoffs theres no way we can move on without him

Plummer. Cutler. 2.0.

i had my issues with Plummer, but in hindsight Shanny screwed the pooch on that move. 13-3 and 1 game away from the SB, so let's obviously draft a QB 6 months later. shakes head

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 08:43 AM
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mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> People are delusional thinking that Tebow could have gone 5/8 or 6/8 in this game. Itís just not realistic.


4 out of 8 throws were 35 yards are longer and 3 of those were 40 yards (35 to Decker, 40 to Royal, 40 to Decker, 40 to Decker for the game winner). Could someone give me a realistic completion percentage on these? Because last year of throws over 20 yards, Aaron Rodgers completed 38%. I canít find the numbers for throws 35 or longer, but Iím sure that percentage drops greatly.


Of the 4 remaining throws last Sunday, 1 was complete. 2 were clear drops. And 1 is debatable whether it was a bad throw or a good decision. Iíll error with Fox on this one that Tebow made a good decision, but it could be argued the other way and it doesnít make much of a difference.


If you want to continue using "2 for 8" as your argument, go ahead. But it's pretty ignorant. Tebow played really well last game. Maybe not great, but it's hard to be great on 8 attempts when half your attempts called for low percentage deep balls.

Here's footage of them (ignore the text conclusions that the vid maker inserted):

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AjzIShKrZ9I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#3 is the only deep ball that isn't great.

Of the 4 deep balls:

#1 - Deep ball to Decker in 1 on 1, gotta make that play vs Carr

#2 - Eddie Royal PI, ball placed perfectly

#3 - Underthrown

#4 - Bomb to Decker for TD perfectly placed

Gort
11-17-2011, 08:43 AM
As fox said "If he was in a conventional offense he would be screwed."

this was a really dumb thing for Fox to say. and it's not true. Tebow would be just like alot of other young QBs in a conventional offense. he'll make some good plays. he'll make some bad plays. he'll make some good reads. he'll make some bad reads. he'll make some good decisions. he'll make some bad decisions. it's almost as if Fox made up his mind on day #1 of training camp and stubborning clinging to it. give Tebow the same chance any other young QB gets, over the span of a couple of seasons, and he may turn to out be a competent pocket passer once all of the mechanical changes become second nature.

Lestat
11-17-2011, 08:54 AM
here's the thing, regardless of how Tebow does the Broncos are going to take a QB in next years draft.
where they take him is the question. if Tebow continues to win and they see him developing well then it's his team and you'll see a 4th or 5th rounder for depth.

if he doesn't progress then you'll see a top 3 round selection of a QB to compete with and hopefully beat out Tebow.
we also have to take into account that running QB's tend to get hurt a lot in the NFL, so you have to have someone who can step in and take over for him when it happens.

i would argue that the likely scenario is that the Broncos start to tweak the team to fit around Tebow on offense to ensure he succeeds. IE getting some serious depth at RB, getting some speedy game breaking WR's who can also slide into the slot & hopefully the two young TE's turn into a NE type of combo.

vonqkilla
11-17-2011, 08:59 AM
Yeah but it backs up the idea this is a one year situation. As someone else said, this story isnt written yet.

jhns
11-17-2011, 09:02 AM
this was a really dumb thing for Fox to say. and it's not true. Tebow would be just like alot of other young QBs in a conventional offense. he'll make some good plays. he'll make some bad plays. he'll make some good reads. he'll make some bad reads. he'll make some good decisions. he'll make some bad decisions. it's almost as if Fox made up his mind on day #1 of training camp and stubborning clinging to it. give Tebow the same chance any other young QB gets, over the span of a couple of seasons, and he may turn to out be a competent pocket passer once all of the mechanical changes become second nature.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8243353f/article/fox-comment-about-offense-not-meant-to-be-offensive-to-tebow?module=HP11_headline_stack

SonOfLe-loLang
11-17-2011, 09:09 AM
He has multiple come from behind wins where he passed for the win. This was while defenses knew he had to pass. I really don't get this line of thinking. People still try to claim he can't do it. With three of his four wins being comebacks, I see posters continually claim that we can't fall behind or we are screwed. This stuff doesn't make any sense to me. "I know he keeps doing it, but I don't think he can do it!"

I dont get it either. People have short memories. They watch the Kansas City game and forget that he ever passed for wins in Miami, Oakland, and against Houston.

bendog
11-17-2011, 09:12 AM
this was a really dumb thing for Fox to say. and it's not true. Tebow would be just like alot of other young QBs in a conventional offense. he'll make some good plays. he'll make some bad plays. he'll make some good reads. he'll make some bad reads. he'll make some good decisions. he'll make some bad decisions. it's almost as if Fox made up his mind on day #1 of training camp and stubborning clinging to it. give Tebow the same chance any other young QB gets, over the span of a couple of seasons, and he may turn to out be a competent pocket passer once all of the mechanical changes become second nature.

review detroit game

SonOfLe-loLang
11-17-2011, 09:13 AM
The thing with Tebow, and this dates back to last year, is that while his completion percentage isn't all that high (as we know), his yards PER completion tend to be. I remember reading a stat somewhere where it showed his yards per completion (last year) was like an absurd 16. That seems to be happening again this year. He takes chances and can hit guys downfield, even if he doesn't complete 60 percent of his passes.

It's all unconventional and everyone is still figuring him out (including our coaching staff), but to say he cant move an offense (or whatever) is, so far, absurd.

I do really hope we throw some tonight out of the gate, and please more than ONE PA pass out of the read option...also, stop doing it on 2nd and 9. The world knows its coming.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-17-2011, 09:14 AM
review detroit game

That game was a complete **** show for the entire team. They finally realized minimum protection isnt the best idea for a young QB against good pass rushing teams

Tombstone RJ
11-17-2011, 09:17 AM
Said that the Broncos organization has already decided Tebow won't be the quarterback past this season and that is the reason they are running this offense now.....they think they can win with it this year and that is it. Said they will be drafting a QB

stink is just telling everyone at ESPN what they want to hear. I seriously doubt he has any legit proof of what he is talking about.

Dedhed
11-17-2011, 09:20 AM
Anyway, doesn't seem like it makes much sense to install such a special offense for Tebow if we've decided he's gone after this year.

We've lots of other young players on offense that need to be evaluated, if the future has been 100% decided to be a conventional offense surely it makes more sense to evaluate those guys in that than in what we're running now.

Also they're creating a massive headache for themselves allowing Tebow to be effective. Be easier to move on if he was a complete mess.

I agree with this. If they had already made that decision it would make more sense to go with Quinn or just allow Tebow to get pummeled trying to be a pure drop back passer.

It doesn't make any sense to install a Tebow-specific offense that will die at the end of the year. Winning games with a plan you are going to desert at the end of the year only accomplishes getting a worse draft pick and stunting the growth of any "conventional" offense you're planning on implementing.

It's a moot point however. Tebow holds all the cards, really. If he takes this team to the playoffs, It's going to be extremely difficult to throw him to the curb and justify trying to replace him with the 4th or 5th best QB in the first round.

If they lose out, it's an easy decision to draft Barkley or Landry Jones high in the first round.

peacepipe
11-17-2011, 09:43 AM
this was a really dumb thing for Fox to say. and it's not true. Tebow would be just like alot of other young QBs in a conventional offense. he'll make some good plays. he'll make some bad plays. he'll make some good reads. he'll make some bad reads. he'll make some good decisions. he'll make some bad decisions. it's almost as if Fox made up his mind on day #1 of training camp and stubborning clinging to it. give Tebow the same chance any other young QB gets, over the span of a couple of seasons, and he may turn to out be a competent pocket passer once all of the mechanical changes become second nature.

it amazes me how some people think because they post on a football forum,that they know more than an NFL coach. If these arm chair QB actually knew anything they'd be coaching an NFL team.

edog24
11-17-2011, 10:04 AM
stink is just telling everyone at ESPN what they want to hear. I seriously doubt he has any legit proof of what he is talking about.

Is he saying that he has a legit source or is he just making crap up like the rest of the experts?

Vine
11-17-2011, 10:04 AM
schlereth has been anti-tebow since the beginning, and given that the coaching staff is surely split on tebow, im sure his source is one of the "non tebow" guys.

of course they will draft a QB, but i doubt taht proves they will be moving on after this season. especially if this is a success, that will be a surefire way to lose a fan base.


Exactly. If Tebow leads the Broncos to a division title and playoffs, the fans are going to want Tebow next year leading the offense. If Fox cannot adjust his coaching style to fully maximize Tebow's talents and this system (if it works), then maybe Pat Bowlen can find a who is willing to take on Tebow properly. If Tebow has a coach who fully believes in him, his passing WILL improve.

Vine
11-17-2011, 10:07 AM
List of "analysts" who should be fired if Tebow gets this club to 8-8. They should be fired twice if we win the division. This isn't a comprehensive list so feel free to add what I've missed.

Hoge
Stink
Cowherd
Chris Carter
Keyshawn
Dilfer


Those guys on Fox 31's Sunday night sports show. Les Shapiro, and 3 others. I can't remember their names. But they have been just as bad as any of the national guys like Hodge, Cowherd, etc.

bendog
11-17-2011, 10:07 AM
it amazes me how some people think because they post on a football forum,that they know more than an NFL coach. If these arm chair QB actually knew anything they'd be coaching an NFL team.

imo it is largely the tebow effect. Any information tending to disprove the preconceived conclusion must be dismissed, even if it involves directly contradicting previous assertions, e.g. "Tim is not being propertly utilized so as to take advantage of his unique attributes" and "Anyone who asserts that Tim is not presently able to run a pro offense, and may never learn to do it, is wrong ... no matter how much first hand knowledge they have."

SonOfLe-loLang
11-17-2011, 10:08 AM
imo it is largely the tebow effect. Any information tending to disprove the preconceived conclusion must be dismissed, even if it involves directly contradicting previous assertions, e.g. "Tim is not being propertly utilized so as to take advantage of his unique attributes" and "Anyone who asserts that Tim is not presently able to run a pro offense, and may never learn to do it, is wrong ... no matter how much first hand knowledge they have."

NO, its just that the media has set this up as a zero sum game. He's either gotta be AWESOME or COMPLETE ****. There's no in between.

CEH
11-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Anyone care what Steve Young had to say? He seems like a logical analyst with similar QB charactertics and struggles early in his career

bendog
11-17-2011, 10:17 AM
Steve Young played in LaVelle Edwards version of the west coast. No comparison.

Wait a sec, I guess there is. Young was aweful until he landed with a pro team that ran something suited to his abilities, which isn't a seven step sit in the pocket Craig Morton style. However, he already understood a multi-read pass oriented offense, which Tebow does not. But perhaps there's a valid comparison that both guys suck unless they're used in a system appropriate.

The question is that while the WC was proven deal, no one knows if Tebow's skills are a lontterm strategy for success, or whether tebow will learn a pro-style with most of a seaons starting and an entire offseason.

campocorto
11-17-2011, 10:23 AM
It's no secret Elway and Xanders have already started their QB scouting for the 2012 offseason.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/12/elway-xanders-watch-nick-foles-play-against-colorado/10675/

I think the escalators in Tebow's contract are ultimately going to kill him. It's going to be a business decision more than anything else.

I feel it's playoffs or bust for Tebow here. There is no tomorrow.

If the team finishes 8-8 (which would be 7-3 under Tebow), I think there will be too much public pressure to bring him back. But he will have to fight for his job next year.

A playoff run might be the only way he assures his starting job for 2012.

DarkHorse30
11-17-2011, 10:23 AM
here's the thing, regardless of how Tebow does the Broncos are going to take a QB in next years draft.
where they take him is the question. if Tebow continues to win and they see him developing well then it's his team and you'll see a 4th or 5th rounder for depth.

if he doesn't progress then you'll see a top 3 round selection of a QB to compete with and hopefully beat out Tebow.
we also have to take into account that running QB's tend to get hurt a lot in the NFL, so you have to have someone who can step in and take over for him when it happens.

i would argue that the likely scenario is that the Broncos start to tweak the team to fit around Tebow on offense to ensure he succeeds. IE getting some serious depth at RB, getting some speedy game breaking WR's who can also slide into the slot & hopefully the two young TE's turn into a NE type of combo.

Bingo.

On another note, I'm not sure who announced last week, but they kept talking about how frustrating it was for Cassel because of the WR drops. From what I saw, Cassel was rushed on most throws and wasn't hitting his WRs very good. They should have been talking about how much KCs O-line was getting killed by AN IMPROVING DENVER D-LINE. Oh, and how about running the ball SUCCESSFULLY when they know you're going to run....hmmm...looks like AN IMPROVING DENVER O-LINE. Whatever happens with Tebow, I am liking how my team is getting better in the trenches.

pricejj
11-17-2011, 10:42 AM
Ha!

Tebow has the chance to prove himself as an NFL QB, and he either will or won't...not sure why Schlereth/Alfred Williams say the evaluation process is complete after every win.

Who are you going to get in the middle of the 1st round better than Tebow?

The only guys I see being available when the Broncos pick, is possibly Weeden or Tannehill... I could see us picking up Weeden though it would be pretty dumb to do it in the middle of the 1st...I'm not sold on Tannehill yet.

broncolife
11-17-2011, 10:50 AM
Tebow calling himself a football player first over QB. Seems like an odd statement for a QB to make.

I dont see why. He was bascially saying he doesnt care about stats and will do anything to win.

peacepipe
11-17-2011, 10:51 AM
Ha!

Tebow has the chance to prove himself as an NFL QB, and he either will or won't...not sure why Schlereth/Alfred Williams say the evaluation process is complete after every win.

Who are you going to get in the middle of the 1st round better than Tebow?
The only guys I see being available when the Broncos pick, is possibly Weeden or Tannehill... I could see us picking up Weeden though it would be pretty dumb to do it in the middle of the 1st...I'm not sold on Tannehill yet.those two could be better than tebow,but weeden is too old.

HorseHead
11-17-2011, 10:57 AM
All that "Just For Men" that Stink has been using has actually permeated his skull...

Don't get the hate...love the player (Mark), not a huge fan of the ESPN wonk..(even without the Tebow stuff)

RaiderH8r
11-17-2011, 11:09 AM
Those guys on Fox 31's Sunday night sports show. Les Shapiro, and 3 others. I can't remember their names. But they have been just as bad as any of the national guys like Hodge, Cowherd, etc.

Put'em on the list.

Then we can take OF1 on a national tour serving crow to these guys live on air.

fdf
11-17-2011, 11:19 AM
If he takes this team to the playoffs, It's going to be extremely difficult to throw him to the curb and justify trying to replace him with the 4th or 5th best QB in the first round.

That's true if we go 8-8 and don't make the playoffs. The team would be hugely improved over last year and Tebow's record as a starter this year would be 8-4. That would be a darn good result for a second year QB on a rebuilding team.

We'll see if DC's figure out how to defense this and we'll see if Tebow can start seeing the shorter stuff across the middle more reliably as the year goes along. If Tebow can get some use out of his TE's and keep the long stuff going, he's going to be a pretty good QB.

Durango
11-17-2011, 11:23 AM
The gut feeling all along has been that Denver will draft a QB high in 2012. First round? Probably. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, and it depends on where they end up in the drafting order and who is available, but the consensus belief has been all along that the Broncos will go in the direction of a more conventional QB, almost regardless of what Tim Tebow does the rest of the season.

I mean, if he lights it up and steadily improves his passing #'s and efficiency, then maybe, but only maybe, this organization sticks with him and looks for a franchise RB.

If this experiment falters and Denver ends up in a high enough draft position where they're staring at Matt Barkley up on the draft board when their pick rolls around, does anyone really believe they would pass that up?

TDmvp
11-17-2011, 11:27 AM
As someone who didn't want us to draft Tim Tebow, if this organization F's up the gold mine he could be on and off the field by not giving him a fair shot at being the long term answer we deserve to be the 90's Bengals and suck for 20 years.

theAPAOps5
11-17-2011, 11:32 AM
NO, its just that the media has set this up as a zero sum game. He's either gotta be AWESOME or COMPLETE ****. There's no in between.

Well and that is how it was to start but as of late he has been doing better.

strafen
11-17-2011, 11:40 AM
Those guys on Fox 31's Sunday night sports show. Les Shapiro, and 3 others. I can't remember their names. But they have been just as bad as any of the national guys like Hodge, Cowherd, etc.You can put the worst QB in the league in a broncos uniform, and Shapiro will love him to death.
Shapiro is jewish, and he hates Tebow for obvious reasons...

DrFate
11-17-2011, 11:41 AM
The gut feeling all along has been that Denver will draft a QB high in 2012. First round? Probably. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, and it depends on where they end up in the drafting order and who is available, but the consensus belief has been all along that the Broncos will go in the direction of a more conventional QB, almost regardless of what Tim Tebow does the rest of the season.


I concur with this

Dedhed
11-17-2011, 11:42 AM
it amazes me how some people think because they post on a football forum,that they know more than an NFL coach. If these arm chair QB actually knew anything they'd be coaching an NFL team.
This is idiot logic on two counts. One to assume that anyone who could coach football, would do it, and two to assume that a coach always makes the best decisions.

There was a pretty large contingency of folks on this board who said that Orton never gave us the best chance to win. That's blatantly obvious at this point.

DrFate
11-17-2011, 11:45 AM
This is idiot logic on two counts. O

I always get a chuckle out of these arguments.

'He's an NFL coach!!! Of course he's an expert!!'

It simply ignores decades of reality. Plenty of unqualified guys get hired to run pro franchises, companies, elected to high positions in public office, etc.

Bronco Yoda
11-17-2011, 11:45 AM
'No Huddle' tv show has been ripping the Broncos. Seems they're really pissed that Tebow has killed the QB rating system for getting a 100+ rating for completing two passes. LMAO!!!!!

Dedhed
11-17-2011, 11:46 AM
imo it is largely the tebow effect.

Yeah, because no armchair coaching or GMing ever took place before Tebow came into the league. You and pipe are as bad Macgruber with your "Tebow is the cause of all things" takes.

Lulz

TDmvp
11-17-2011, 11:47 AM
I always get a chuckle out of these arguments.

'He's an NFL coach!!! Of course he's an expert!!'

It simply ignores decades of reality. Plenty of unqualified guys get hired to run pro franchises, companies, elected to high positions in public office, etc.



Hold it ... So you are saying Josh McDaniels wasn't a expert ? ... Doh !!! ...

But yea I totally agree with you Dr.F

peacepipe
11-17-2011, 11:48 AM
This is idiot logic on two counts. One to assume that anyone who could coach football, would do it, and two to assume that a coach always makes the best decisions.

There was a pretty large contingency of folks on this board who said that Orton never gave us the best chance to win. That's blatantly obvious at this point.

what!? you telling me that someone on this board would turn down a multi-million dollar yr contract coaching in the NFL?
coachs may not be a 100% correct in every decision but they are better educated than YOU to make that decision.

TDmvp
11-17-2011, 11:50 AM
I always get a chuckle out of these arguments.

'He's an NFL coach!!! Of course he's an expert!!'

It simply ignores decades of reality. Plenty of unqualified guys get hired to run pro franchises, companies, elected to high positions in public office, etc.



And in before someone post Obama's pic as proof plenty of unqualified guys get hired to run things.

:spit:

peacepipe
11-17-2011, 11:50 AM
Yeah, because no armchair coaching or GMing ever took place before Tebow came into the league. You and pipe are as bad Macgruber with your "Tebow is the cause of all things" takes.

Lulzhey it happens,but some here are taking it to a whole new level.

jhns
11-17-2011, 11:50 AM
what!? you telling me that someone on this board would turn down a multi-million dollar yr contract coaching in the NFL?
coachs may not be a 100% correct in every decision but they are better educated than YOU to make that decision.

LOL

Clearly a McFan.

gtown
11-17-2011, 11:52 AM
I call BS on stink. I think the jury is still out in Dove Valley on whether they pursue another QB or not early in the draft next year. Regardless, Denver is most likely not gonna keep Orton or Quinn around, so at some point Tebow will have competition.

I just wonder if the fanbase will be able to take another episode of the franchise giving up on a young QB with lots of potential. There is still a lot of scar tissue from the Cutler fiasco.

strafen
11-17-2011, 11:52 AM
Those guys on Fox 31's Sunday night sports show. Les Shapiro, and 3 others. I can't remember their names. But they have been just as bad as any of the national guys like Hodge, Cowherd, etc.

Les Shapiro, Chad Brown and Reuben Droughns. he other guy is the station sportcaster. I can't remember his name either...

Dedhed
11-17-2011, 11:56 AM
The gut feeling all along has been that Denver will draft a QB high in 2012. First round? Probably. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, and it depends on where they end up in the drafting order and who is available, but the consensus belief has been all along that the Broncos will go in the direction of a more conventional QB, almost regardless of what Tim Tebow does the rest of the season.

I mean, if he lights it up and steadily improves his passing #'s and efficiency, then maybe, but only maybe, this organization sticks with him and looks for a franchise RB.

If this experiment falters and Denver ends up in a high enough draft position where they're staring at Matt Barkley up on the draft board when their pick rolls around, does anyone really believe they would pass that up?
I agree here, but I think there would be tremendous backlash if the Broncos don't qualify for a top pick organically.

Say we finish with even 7-8 wins. Tebow will have gone 6-5 or 7-4 and there is no chance Barkley or even Jones are on the board at pick #15-20 where we would be slotted to pick.

I can't see how you justify the cost to move into the top ten to replace a QB who pulled the franchise off the floor and had a winning record.

I agree completely that if we earn a top pick and one of the top 3 guys is there, we take him.

ColoradoDarin
11-17-2011, 11:59 AM
I always get a chuckle out of these arguments.

'He's an NFL coach!!! Of course he's an expert!!'

It simply ignores decades of reality. Plenty of unqualified guys get hired to run pro franchises, companies, elected to high positions in public office, etc.

"Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win"

DrFate
11-17-2011, 11:59 AM
I think it's more likely they look for a QB in the mid/late first, 2nd round, etc. Cincy has done surprisingly well with Daulton as a 2nd round pickup.

I don't see this franchise finishing with a pick out of the top 10 and trying to sell the farm to draft Jones or Barkley. Too many holes elsewhere and Fox is an 'old school' type of coach.

Dedhed
11-17-2011, 12:04 PM
what!? you telling me that someone on this board would turn down a multi-million dollar yr contract coaching in the NFL?
Absolutely I'm telling you that. I would never be interested in working 120+ hours a week dealing with head cases, egos, and media scumbags. It's about as far from an enjoyable life as I can imagine.

So there's at least one person who would turn it down, and I would bet a coach's yearly salary that there are others who would have no interest.

coachs may not be a 100% correct in every decision but they are better educated than YOU to make that decision.Then how come they didn't know that Orton was a waste when I have been saying since before camp started?

Of course they know more overall, but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, doesn't occasionally know better.

cutthemdown
11-17-2011, 12:06 PM
I can see why it took coaches awhile to come around on Tebow. They have all these pass plays he doesn't seem to be able to run from under center. When you run a pro football club your first reaction to that is never lets run it 55 times and not throw.

Give Fox credit for adapting a ton to fit Tebow. He's risking being a laughingstock so factor that in with your critique on his coaching.

If you run the Tebow offense we will need at least 2 more running qbs. Won't probably have to draft them high though.

cutthemdown
11-17-2011, 12:06 PM
Tebow throws as well as Kordell Stewert ever did IMO and he was one bad pass from the Superbowl with Steelers.

jhns
11-17-2011, 12:11 PM
Absolutely I'm telling you that. I would never be interested in working 120+ hours a week dealing with head cases, egos, and media scumbags. It's about as far from an enjoyable life as I can imagine.

So there's at least one person who would turn it down, and I would bet a coach's yearly salary that there are others who would have no interest.

Then how come they didn't know that Orton was a waste when I have been saying since before camp started?

Of course they know more overall, but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, doesn't occasionally know better.

Plus the fact that if you don't have connections, you have to work your way up from high school or some similar level. You wouldn't be making real money for a long time. This theory that you would coach if you knew what you wee doing, is just dumb. Aside from all of that, it takes more than just knowing football. You have to be able to teach it. You have to be able to motivate. Etc...

pricejj
11-17-2011, 12:22 PM
If this experiment falters and Denver ends up in a high enough draft position where they're staring at Matt Barkley up on the draft board when their pick rolls around, does anyone really believe they would pass that up?

Barkley is going #2 overall.

Dedhed
11-17-2011, 12:26 PM
Barkley is going #2 overall.

I don't know about #2, but he'll go to the 2nd team with a need at QB.

peacepipe
11-17-2011, 12:29 PM
jones will likely go before barkley.

Rolandftw
11-17-2011, 12:36 PM
Yeah, the statement by Schlereth doesn't make much sense. If our goal was to get QBOTF in the draft, we would have kept Tebow in a conventional offense.

It is obvious the team will either draft a QB or sign one in the offseason. Orton and Quinn will not be back most likely.

The question is whether the QB we bring in is a direct competitor with Tebow OR a backup.

TheReverend
11-17-2011, 12:36 PM
jones will likely go before barkley.

lolno

pricejj
11-17-2011, 12:37 PM
those two could be better than tebow,but weeden is too old.

Let's say the Broncos pick 15-20 and Tebow doesn't show any more ability in the passing game than he has shown...

QB's off the board:
1. Luck
2. Barkley
5-12. Jones
5-12. Griffin

What you have left is Weeden (28 years old), Tannehill, Foles:
1. Weeden has a good chance of winning the BCS this year with outstanding passing numbers. I am pretty sure somebody will draft him before pick #42 (there are just so many bad teams that need a QB).
2. Tannehill is not as polished as Weeden, and has shown poor decision making ability late in games. I see him as a mid to late 1st rounder.
3. Foles got picked off last 3 times last week against the Buffs. Probably a 3rd rounder.

It's not like there is a lot to choose from, so our only possibilities will probably be Weeden or Tannehill...

razorwire77
11-17-2011, 12:38 PM
I don't think they've made up their minds about anything. Stink is full of s**t. However, I think it's fair to say that Tebow must improve significantly passing the football from the pocket to retain the starting position in 2012-13. It's entirely possible that they will draft a QB in the 1st/2nd round.

edog24
11-17-2011, 12:40 PM
Let's say the Broncos pick 15-20 and Tebow doesn't show any more ability in the passing game than he has shown...

QB's off the board:
1. Luck
2. Barkley
5-12. Jones
5-12. Griffin

What you have left is Weeden (28 years old), Tannehill, Foles:
1. Weeden has a good chance of winning the BCS this year with outstanding passing numbers. I am pretty sure somebody will draft him before pick #42 (there are just so many bad teams that need a QB).
2. Tannehill is not as polished as Weeden, and has shown poor decision making ability late in games. I see him as a mid to late 1st rounder.
3. Foles got picked off last 3 times last week against the Buffs. Probably a 3rd rounder.

It's not like their is a lot to choose from, and the only one who may have better game winning ability than Tebow next year, is Weeden. I wouldn't mind picking him up in the 2nd round, but I don't think he will be there when we pick. I think it would be stupid to spend a mid-1st round pick on him because he will only have a 6-7 year career, and probably won't win right away anyway.

That's a good analysis. I don't know why we would burn a 2nd rounder (that we could desperately use for RB, WR, TE, LB, OL) when we have Quinn already as a good backup.

DrFate
11-17-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't see Quinn returning...

edog24
11-17-2011, 12:46 PM
I don't see Quinn returning...

Really, why? (Legit question, I don't know all the contract details, etc)

pricejj
11-17-2011, 12:50 PM
That's a good analysis. I don't know why we would burn a 2nd rounder (that we could desperately use for RB, WR, TE, LB, OL) when we have Quinn already as a good backup.

There won't be any QB's who are better than Tebow available when we pick in the 2nd round...

...so we either pick up Weeden or Tannehill at our pick in the 1st
...or we trade up with our 1st round pick for Griffen or Jones (the asking price for Barkley will be too high)

Suddenly the options to replace a visibly progressing Tebow don't seem so great. Tebow doesn't have to look like a world beater at the end of the year, he just has to visibly progress while collecting some wins along the way.

Schlereth can talk all the crap he wants, but the opportunity cost of selecting an unproven middle-of-the-road prospect is going to be very high.

BroncsCheer
11-17-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm interested in what Adam Webber might bring after a couple years development. I'd really like to see next years draft focus on the D, with a later round RB enhancement. Let Tebow have the reins for a couple years, see what happens, and then bring in Webber (or roll with the Teebs) - regardless, build a D that scares other teams.

My two cents.

Oh, and Stink can **** off - he's a loud mouth Vandal ****er . . .

DrFate
11-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Really, why? (Legit question, I don't know all the contract details, etc)

He wasn't brought in by this management, his contract is up at the end of this season, he hasn't seen the field at all, etc.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if all three QBs on the roster today are elsewhere when the 2012 season opens.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-17-2011, 01:00 PM
There won't be any QB's who are better than Tebow available when we pick in the 2nd round...

...so we either pick up Weeden or Tannehill at our pick in the 1st
...or we trade up with our 1st round pick for Griffen or Jones (the asking price for Barkley will be too high)

Suddenly the options to replace a visibly progressing Tebow don't seem so great. Tebow doesn't have to look like a world beater at the end of the year, he just has to visibly progress while collecting some wins along the way.

Schlereth can talk all the crap he wants, but the opportunity cost of selecting an unproven middle-of-the-road prospect is going to be very high.

I don't think Tebow will be considered "visibly progressing" as an NFL QB unless he can complete a higher % of passes. Perhaps I'm wrong, I just don't see the FO and Fox wanting to run the option til the end of time.

I still think Tebow needs to get demonstrably better at throwing the football.

broncocalijohn
11-17-2011, 01:51 PM
schlereth has been anti-tebow since the beginning, and given that the coaching staff is surely split on tebow, im sure his source is one of the "non tebow" guys.

of course they will draft a QB, but i doubt taht proves they will be moving on after this season. especially if this is a success, that will be a surefire way to lose a fan base.

I predict that if Tebow doesnt get at least 20 attempts by year end, it probably means that whatever they try to do in practice on throwing more (and accuracy), he didnt accomplish it enough to satisfy the coaches and we are no doubt going for a high pick QB to fight for the starting job in 2012. Of course this new "college" system can be a gold mine and if we are at the end of the season and teams haven't figured out how to stop it, the Broncos FO and coaches might roll with Tebow first, everyone else fights for it.

Steve Sewell
11-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Here's the thing though...I bet Elway and Stink have a pretty close relationship and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot of this stuff is coming directly from the man in charge. It's not far fetched in the least bit to imagine that there are those at Dove Valley that don't believe this type of game is in any way sustainable for the long run.

bendog
11-17-2011, 02:52 PM
He wasn't brought in by this management, his contract is up at the end of this season, he hasn't seen the field at all, etc.

I wouldn't be at all shocked if all three QBs on the roster today are elsewhere when the 2012 season opens.

I can't see him here unless Fox convinces him there will actually be an open competition for the positon. If it's clear Tebow can't make the pro-style, he's a hell of a lot better option than the Foles kid or anybody likely to be around with our pick. I can see them giving him a contract even if they draft a guy like Griffen who really is a project. It would be in a position to get some starts and have more value in 2013 than he'll have as a UFA in 12. If they go with Tebow, he's gone.

Jay3
11-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Here's the thing though...I bet Elway and Stink have a pretty close relationship and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot of this stuff is coming directly from the man in charge. It's not far fetched in the least bit to imagine that there are those at Dove Valley that don't believe this type of game is in any way sustainable for the long run.

Yeah, that's the impression I get. Elway's the one. He may be playing it by the book, keeping an open mind.

But I think Elway is the one putting out a counter-message.

edog24
11-17-2011, 02:59 PM
I just would hate for us to waste such a talented draft on bringing in a qb just to compete with Tebow. If Tebow can get it done for the next 1-2 years, give him the keys and shore up the lines. We can pick up a journeyman backup qb in FA for peanuts.

bombay
11-17-2011, 02:59 PM
If the Broncos decide that they don't want Tebow as their starting QB beyond this season, what kind of value would he have on the market?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-17-2011, 03:04 PM
If the Broncos decide that they don't want Tebow as their starting QB beyond this season, what kind of value would he have on the market?

Id still wanna keep him.

elsid13
11-17-2011, 03:05 PM
If the Broncos decide that they don't want Tebow as their starting QB beyond this season, what kind of value would he have on the market?

a 5th or 6th rounder. Remember he doesn't fit a pro-style system so a team would have to be willing to retool itself. Thus reduce competition to acquire him and driving down the price.

bendog
11-17-2011, 03:06 PM
Here's the thing though...I bet Elway and Stink have a pretty close relationship and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot of this stuff is coming directly from the man in charge. It's not far fetched in the least bit to imagine that there are those at Dove Valley that don't believe this type of game is in any way sustainable for the long run.

ah, I don't think so. Elway's media relations are well vetted, and Stink in not up there with Schefter or even Mortenson. It's bull, like all of Stink's stuff. He's had a hard on for Den since shanny cut him out of a roster bonus when his knee was done. And Mike and Mike. golic's had a hard on for denver ever since Elway kept him from going to a superbowl. Those guys are like Dr. Z on Grads

Agamemnon
11-17-2011, 03:18 PM
Using Tebow to supercharge their running game has pretty much already eliminated much of a chance of picking a top tier QB prospect. So if their plan is to replace Tebow before he even gets a shot to improve as a passer they are idiots on multiple levels. I seriously hope what Stink is saying isn't true, because if it is this organization is completely ****ed. Idiots don't build Super Bowl winners...

bombay
11-17-2011, 03:19 PM
a 5th or 6th rounder. Remember he doesn't fit a pro-style system so a team would have to be willing to retool itself. Thus reduce competition to acquire him and driving down the price.

That's too bad, that his value wouldn't be higher, but I was kind of thinking the same thing. You'd have to retool both your offense and your personel to fit him. Not a lot of teams would be willing to make such a radical move. If he's not going to be your starter, you can't keep him around for obvious reasons.

lod01
11-17-2011, 03:22 PM
This doesn't make any sense, imo.

If they had decided he wasn't the QB they'd put him in situations they expect him to fail and not play up to some his bigger strengths.

Explain to me how any team fails vs Miami and the chiefs? You gotta be a total loser to lose to those teams.

bendog
11-17-2011, 03:25 PM
They lose to Mia unless their coach is an idiot. KC couldn't stop the run, we didn't even try the pass. They put in this scheme to win more games. It's that simple. But Fox isn't lying when he says he's finding out if Tebow will be the qb next year. I think they're still undeicided about him, and so should fans.

enjolras
11-17-2011, 03:31 PM
a 5th or 6th rounder. Remember he doesn't fit a pro-style system so a team would have to be willing to retool itself. Thus reduce competition to acquire him and driving down the price.

I don't know... his value is so diminished because of the fans that come with him. It would have to be a team that is rock-solid at the QB position. Very few teams would take Tebow on I think. His value may be zero.

bendog
11-17-2011, 03:35 PM
he's sell tickets in Fla just being on the roster.

Sim Pilot 4.0
11-17-2011, 03:38 PM
Steve Young played in LaVelle Edwards version of the west coast. No comparison.

Wait a sec, I guess there is. Young was aweful until he landed with a pro team that ran something suited to his abilities, which isn't a seven step sit in the pocket Craig Morton style. However, he already understood a multi-read pass oriented offense, which Tebow does not. But perhaps there's a valid comparison that both guys suck unless they're used in a system appropriate.

The question is that while the WC was proven deal, no one knows if Tebow's skills are a lontterm strategy for success, or whether tebow will learn a pro-style with most of a seaons starting and an entire offseason.

There are very few similarities between Steve Young and Tebow. It is very unfortunate that professional football is quantified in this manner. Steve Young was fundamentally sound when he started his pro career. His mobility was accompanied with the ability to read defenses and accuracy.

The common complaint about Tebow is his inaccuracy, steve young is the most accurate QB in the history of the game. The interesting part about the opinions of both Montana and Young is both of them could be considered the most mechanically sound quarterbacks of all time. Why are they overlooking the obvious faults that made both of them so successful?

bendog
11-17-2011, 03:46 PM
Why are they overlooking the obvious faults that made both of them so successful?

You lost me there. I think that Montana would have been cut had a team tried him in the 7 step drop in vogue whne Walsh first unveiled the WC. Young physically was obviously suited for the WC, but imo he was much more physically gifted than Montana, but Montana may be the most competitive qb to play in the modern era. Tampa Bay was so bad, nobody made it there.

Denver Crush
11-17-2011, 03:50 PM
I liked Stink when he was on the field peeing in his pants. When he's crapping out of his mouth in front of a microphone, not so much.


This, honestly I cant stand him as a commentator. He likes the taste of his foot apparently.

Sim Pilot 4.0
11-17-2011, 04:00 PM
You lost me there. I think that Montana would have been cut had a team tried him in the 7 step drop in vogue whne Walsh first unveiled the WC. Young physically was obviously suited for the WC, but imo he was much more physically gifted than Montana, but Montana may be the most competitive qb to play in the modern era. Tampa Bay was so bad, nobody made it there.

Here's what I mean. Every QB is put into a system that suits them to an extent. The same thing should happen with Tebow. The difference is even if Montana and Young were in an offense that didn't fully suit them. They were more likely to adapt because they have or had a solid set of skills. Tebow isn't the same because his fundamentals are just bad. So, he would struggle in any offense where passing is concerned. Yet, Young and Montana seem to skip over this.

bendog
11-17-2011, 04:35 PM
Here's what I mean. Every QB is put into a system that suits them to an extent. The same thing should happen with Tebow. The difference is even if Montana and Young were in an offense that didn't fully suit them. They were more likely to adapt because they have or had a solid set of skills. Tebow isn't the same because his fundamentals are just bad. So, he would struggle in any offense where passing is concerned. Yet, Young and Montana seem to skip over this.

Yes, that is the distinction the tebowites refuse to accept. However, I think mechanics is over emphasized here. Young's delivery was criticized, though I agree Montana was fundamenally excellent.

But Montana came from a college system using progression reads after the snap. Young came from a very sophisticated system that would require pre snap reads depending upon the defensive alingment, and this determined what routes the recivers would run, and then progression reads to find which one, if any, were open. Tebow was never taught to make progression reads, which are the simpliest of reads in a passing offense. His reads were all pre-snap, and all he had to identify was which side had safety help, and then throw to recivers on the other side whose routes were defined by the play call in the huddle. Worst of all, Meyer's offense is based on putting recievers 1 on 1. If they're clearly open, they're open. If not, run. There's no emphasis on anticipating where a wr makes a cut, and throwing the ball before the cut to a covered wr, to the spot where the wr will be a couple of yards out of the cut, and where he will have gotten some seperation. There are some progression reads in Meyers system, but the qb only looks to one side of the field and at most 3 wrs. If there are 4 wrs to one side, it's to do rubs or set up a screen. But, basically Tebow never learned how a qb anticipates where a wr is going to be open for a short instant.

And, that's not some cat-like skill. It's game film and practice. I agree with you 100% if this is what you mean by mechanics. The same throw on the same route, over and over, each time the same. That's what he can't do. And the question is whether he can learn to. Sure his looping motion makes it harder because it takes longer to get the ball out of his hand, but it's way worse than just that. If he can't learn to do that, there's no point in even wondering if he'll ever be able to take a snap and not know what routes his recievers are running until he reads his "key" that is what a particular defender does, and that's what tells the offense if it's cover 2 or whatever.

The Den coaching staff was forced to put in Tebow by fan pressure. As Fox expected, and had warned, the guy "sucked" in a pro-style. And Franklin is struggling in pass protection too. So, they've dumbed down his reads, probably going to progression reads, with two or at most three targets. And he's struggeled with that by not being fast enough and throwing to recievers way late in their routes. In Det he had J. Thomas wide open over the middle, but by the time he got to him, Thomas was by the sideline and the result was a dropped pass. That game was the end of "fitting a square peg in a round hole" as Fox put it. They put in an option attack. And from the KC game, it looks like he and the offensive line are reading the defensive alignment, and altering running plays at the LOS. We haven't seen all of what they're doing to pass yet .... I hope.

errand
11-17-2011, 04:45 PM
No but they should be laughed at. Kind of like everyone that defended McDaniels. Same with those that defended Orton. These people can't really claim to know what they are talking about.

People who defended the head coach that drafted tebow are idiots? Wouldn't that make any 1 who thought tim tebow was worthy of a first round draft pick an idiot as well?

Sim Pilot 4.0
11-17-2011, 04:56 PM
Yes, that is the distinction the tebowites refuse to accept. However, I think mechanics is over emphasized here. Young's delivery was criticized, though I agree Montana was fundamenally excellent.

But Montana came from a college system using progression reads after the snap. Young came from a very sophisticated system that would require pre snap reads depending upon the defensive alingment, and this determined what routes the recivers would run, and then progression reads to find which one, if any, were open. Tebow was never taught to make progression reads, which are the simpliest of reads in a passing offense. His reads were all pre-snap, and all he had to identify was which side had safety help, and then throw to recivers on the other side whose routes were defined by the play call in the huddle. Worst of all, Meyer's offense is based on putting recievers 1 on 1. If they're clearly open, they're open. If not, run. There's no emphasis on anticipating where a wr makes a cut, and throwing the ball before the cut to a covered wr, to the spot where the wr will be a couple of yards out of the cut, and where he will have gotten some seperation. There are some progression reads in Meyers system, but the qb only looks to one side of the field and at most 3 wrs. If there are 4 wrs to one side, it's to do rubs or set up a screen. But, basically Tebow never learned how a qb anticipates where a wr is going to be open for a short instant.

And, that's not some cat-like skill. It's game film and practice. I agree with you 100% if this is what you mean by mechanics. The same throw on the same route, over and over, each time the same. That's what he can't do. And the question is whether he can learn to. Sure his looping motion makes it harder because it takes longer to get the ball out of his hand, but it's way worse than just that. If he can't learn to do that, there's no point in even wondering if he'll ever be able to take a snap and not know what routes his recievers are running until he reads his "key" that is what a particular defender does, and that's what tells the offense if it's cover 2 or whatever.

The Den coaching staff was forced to put in Tebow by fan pressure. As Fox expected, and had warned, the guy "sucked" in a pro-style. And Franklin is struggling in pass protection too. So, they've dumbed down his reads, probably going to progression reads, with two or at most three targets. And he's struggeled with that by not being fast enough and throwing to recievers way late in their routes. In Det he had J. Thomas wide open over the middle, but by the time he got to him, Thomas was by the sideline and the result was a dropped pass. That game was the end of "fitting a square peg in a round hole" as Fox put it. They put in an option attack. And from the KC game, it looks like he and the offensive line are reading the defensive alignment, and altering running plays at the LOS. We haven't seen all of what they're doing to pass yet .... I hope.

I agree 100% this is exactly what I mean. Both of them could probably complete passes on the tree with a blind fold on because the actual throw is second nature. They could probably feel how far a 10 yard pass is without seeing the distance. This is how much they have trained on specific routes and progressions. Not only that their footwork (Montana mostly) was the best.

I don't think they are being completely honest with their comments to Tebow. They would probably have more impact on his development with their words than anyone else. If Joe Montana told Tebow to hang tires at different distances and throw all day, this kid would do it.

The greatest point you make is his inability or inconsistency with hitting the moving target or being able to predict where the WR will be and lead the WR.

elsid13
11-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Well the WCO was developed because Walsh had QB that couldn't throw deep, maybe McCoy is ahead of his time and we don't know it. (NOW I duck)

DrFate
11-17-2011, 05:18 PM
I can see them giving him a contract even if they draft a guy like Griffen who really is a project. It would be in a position to get some starts and have more value in 2013 than he'll have as a UFA in 12. If they go with Tebow, he's gone.

I think it's more likely add somebody's backup (like Flynn (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/11/17/qb.questions/?xid=cnnbin) from Green Bay) if they draft a guy like Griffen. That's why I can see all 3 being gone. McCoy and Ellis/Xanders have seen Quinn in practice for a full year and a half. There hasn't been any movement on a contract extension. I have to think that decision has been made.

Fox pulled this sort of thing with Delhomme in Carolina (who started his career with the Saints and only went to Carolina after being a long-term backup).

Popps
11-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Said that the Broncos organization has already decided Tebow won't be the quarterback past this season and that is the reason they are running this offense now.....they think they can win with it this year and that is it. Said they will be drafting a QB

So, we can win with him... but we're positive we don't want him around next year?

Got it.