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View Full Version : Tiki's Take on Tebow


TJ96
11-15-2011, 09:30 AM
Tiki makes some valid points (http://thexlog.com/201111151154/xtra-point-football/nfl/tikis-take-it%E2%80%99s-tebow-time/) about the future of QBs in the NFL. If the Broncos could win with Tebow completing two passes, what’s wrong with that?

OABB
11-15-2011, 09:32 AM
****. It's better for our team if Tiki says Tebow sucks. He has Bob like negative karma.

bendog
11-15-2011, 09:33 AM
Maybe Travis Henry has something left in the tank .... beyond bong juice in the pee-pee

Smiling Assassin27
11-15-2011, 09:35 AM
Cris Carter just pounded Tebow and the Broncos this morning. Says you can't put an Armani suit on a hobo, which might explain a little about why Cris never got a ring--wide receivers disease.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-15-2011, 09:37 AM
Cris Carter just pounded Tebow and the Broncos this morning. Says you can't put an Armani suit on a hobo, which might explain a little about why Cris never got a ring--wide receivers disease.

wtf does that mean?

Boobs McGee
11-15-2011, 09:39 AM
It means he's a bitter old **** that is praying tebow will fail. Such a clown...amazing receiver, horrible analyst.

bronclvr
11-15-2011, 09:40 AM
If we keep running the Ball we'd better start a Roll-O-Dex for every available Running Back out there-

I really love the new identity of the Broncos-

Jason in LA
11-15-2011, 09:54 AM
I don't agree with Tiki, because there is only one Tebow. If there were more QBs doing it like Tebow, then I could see his point in that there could be a shift. And this Tebow project would have to be deemed a success before another team would try a QB like him. I don't think any team is going to go this route, and I'd say that the Broncos didn't plan to do it, and they might not be doing it next year.

I don't agree with the Cam Newton and Michael Vick comparison. Yes, they all run, but I'd still say that they are three different QBs. And as much as they run, Newton and Vick are still expected to be passers. At this point Tebow isn't expected to do that at all.

This is a pass happy league, and a QB who can light it up from the pocket will always be valued over a QB who can run. And if that running QB struggles passing the ball, he won't be around for long.

edog24
11-15-2011, 09:56 AM
Cris Carter just pounded Tebow and the Broncos this morning. Says you can't put an Armani suit on a hobo, which might explain a little about why Cris never got a ring--wide receivers disease.

He has been a complete Dbag when it comes to Tebow. All he does is complain about him. He must have been rubbing against Hoge for too long in the espn bathrooms.

Smiling Assassin27
11-15-2011, 10:01 AM
wtf does that mean?

Carter says straight out that Tebow cannot throw the ball. He's all about looking good while losing rather than looking how you look and winning. He went further and said that even if the Broncos whip the Jets with this style, his opinion will not change. That's the textbook definition of ignant, I'd say.

yerner
11-15-2011, 10:06 AM
Tiki's just looking for a job.

Kaylore
11-15-2011, 10:39 AM
Did anyone actually read this? It's pretty good.

bronclvr
11-15-2011, 10:45 AM
Did anyone actually read this? It's pretty good.

I did, and I agree, it's a really good take-maybe Tiki has a brain after all-

bendog
11-15-2011, 11:12 AM
yeah, I read it. I'll believe a team can go deep in the playoffs throwing less than 10 passes a game when I see it. But rushing for over 250 yds and 4.4 per attempt is impressive. He's right that an offense can't be succesful if it tries a scheme it doesn't have personnel for.

errand
11-15-2011, 11:20 AM
Tiki makes some valid points (http://thexlog.com/201111151154/xtra-point-football/nfl/tikis-take-it%E2%80%99s-tebow-time/) about the future of QBs in the NFL. If the Broncos could win with Tebow completing two passes, what’s wrong with that?

nothing's wrong with winning.

however, on a side note, I'm glad the giants won the SB after that douche left the team

TonyR
11-15-2011, 11:21 AM
I'll believe a team can go deep in the playoffs throwing less than 10 passes a game when I see it.

Agree. At some point you come up against defenses against which you can't succeed without at least the threat of the pass. They'll completely take the run away from you without it.

errand
11-15-2011, 11:22 AM
yeah, I read it. I'll believe a team can go deep in the playoffs throwing less than 10 passes a game when I see it. But rushing for over 250 yds and 4.4 per attempt is impressive. He's right that an offense can't be succesful if it tries a scheme it doesn't have personnel for.

'72-'73 dolphins won two SB's where Bob Griese threw all of 18 or 19 passes in them...combined

Carmelo15
11-15-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm not do sure Cam Newton couldn't run a similar offense. Whether the Panthers would allow him to is another story. Michael Vick is way too injury prone. I do expect Carolina to implement some read option into their gameplan at some point this season. Copycat league

Spider
11-15-2011, 11:26 AM
I dont have a problem with the way we are winning , when we was running TD the ground it worked well for us ....

orinjkrush
11-15-2011, 11:26 AM
sometimes if you zig when everyone else zags, you can win big.
apple did it against big IBM 360s.
the Germans did it with blitzkrieg.
Ford did it with the Model T (vs custom fit cars of the time)

depends on how fast the competition catches up.

mkporter
11-15-2011, 11:27 AM
Tiki's got a point. If you don't have the skill set to do what you been planning, then you'd better change your plans. It's like, if you are not capable of being a good father, you should probably divorce your pregnant wife, and move on to what you are good at, say, banging 23 year old interns.

bendog
11-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Agree. At some point you come up against defenses against which you can't succeed without at least the threat of the pass. They'll completely take the run away from you without it.

Well, we'll see. The Jests have some locker room/moral issues. I mean when Norv publicly b**** slaps a coach in the media, and then Billicheat tells him to suck his dick ... it ain't good. If Den can keep running it for over 4 on first and second down, I think we'll keep seeing it until some defense can shut it down. Shanny wasn't exactly shy about hammering his tailbacks at defenses, but the online just manned KC. I'm looking forward to this. Obviously McCoy looked at the Det tape and decided that trying to get Tebow to read blitzes and find the open guy wasn't an option right now. On paper, this looks like a good test for the oline.

bendog
11-15-2011, 11:32 AM
'72-'73 dolphins won two SB's where Bob Griese threw all of 18 or 19 passes in them...combined

I think the game's changed. But I agree with Tiki that the nfl is going to see guys with not exactly classic qb skills. But there's no way I'd compare Tebow to Cam or either of those two to Vick. They're all different. And I have an open mind on Tebow.

errand
11-15-2011, 11:37 AM
Griese stats in SB VII 8 of 11 for 88 yards 1 TD 1 INT

Griese stats in SB VIII 6 of 7 for 73 yards 0 TD 0 INT

Combined 14 of 18 for 161 yards 1 TD 1 INT....

dolphins rushed for 184 yards in VII...196 yards in VIII.

so it is possible to win SB's with the formula we're running...problem is our QB isn't hitting on 78% of his pass attempts.

Pick Six
11-15-2011, 11:41 AM
Tiki's just looking for a job.

I'd be OK with that. McGahee, Barber and Tebow sounds like a winning backfield...:strong:

bowtown
11-15-2011, 11:44 AM
I'd be OK with that. McGahee, Barber and Tebow sounds like a winning backfield...:strong:

Um, no.

TonyR
11-15-2011, 11:48 AM
Griese stats in SB VII 8 of 11 for 88 yards 1 TD 1 INT

Griese stats in SB VIII 6 of 7 for 73 yards 0 TD 0 INT

Combined 14 of 18 for 161 yards 1 TD 1 INT....

Different era.

bendog
11-15-2011, 11:58 AM
Different era.

I was thinking about it, and I really do not diss errand's takes. The corners were allowed to mug wr's w/o the ball. While scoring seems to be about the same, team's pass for about 70 yds more per game.

But look the chefs suck. That record last year, mirage. But can den come up against a def like Pitt or Balt or even SF, and try and run 52 times and pass 10? Can they average 4.4 yds per carry doing that? And this even assumes that they have a defense that really dominates like Pitt and Balt can today? I dunno.

But that dolphins team has three olinemen in the HOF. And Larry Little and Kuchenberg didn't get there with just rep, and I wouldn't argue about Langer. I think Den was the first team with two 1000 yd rushers since then, too. You can make an argument that that team was best ever.

ND Bronco Fan
11-15-2011, 12:04 PM
He must have been rubbing against Hoge for too long in the espn bathrooms.


My guess is it involved playing tummy sticks during down time.

mkporter
11-15-2011, 12:06 PM
I was thinking about it, and I really do not diss errand's takes. The corners were allowed to mug wr's w/o the ball. While scoring seems to be about the same, team's pass for about 70 yds more per game.

But look the chefs suck. That record last year, mirage. But can den come up against a def like Pitt or Balt or even SF, and try and run 52 times and pass 10? Can they average 4.4 yds per carry doing that? And this even assumes that they have a defense that really dominates like Pitt and Balt can today? I dunno.

But that dolphins team has three olinemen in the HOF. And Larry Little and Kuchenberg didn't get there with just rep, and I wouldn't argue about Langer. I think Den was the first team with two 1000 yd rushers since then, too. You can make an argument that that team was best ever.

I think the Chiefs game was the extreme end of our new philosophy. As the announcers noted, Fox expected a 30 run/20 pass split. If you play a team that can't stop the run (like the chorfs) then that gets skewed farther towards the run. If you play a team that is really stout against the run, then I think we can expect to skew the other way.

I think all the talk of the Bronco's new offense expecting to run 55 times a week is silly. Tebow will need to continue to improve his passing game if the Broncos expect to be a serious contender in the future. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that he will.

bendog
11-15-2011, 12:08 PM
PS, but what I do know is that if Den keeps running that option and even the triple option with Royal, there will be some WR deep with little safety help. Baby steps with Tebow, and the Jests have the best corner tandem, but still McCoy may have something here that can evolve for Tebow.

TonyR
11-15-2011, 12:09 PM
Tebow will need to continue to improve his passing game if the Broncos expect to be a serious contender in the future.

Yup. I think we lose handily on Thu if we don't have some success throwing the ball. And all this talk of the revolution will be water under the bridge.

bendog
11-15-2011, 12:12 PM
I think the Chiefs game was the extreme end of our new philosophy. As the announcers noted, Fox expected a 30 run/20 pass split. If you play a team that can't stop the run (like the chorfs) then that gets skewed farther towards the run. If you play a team that is really stout against the run, then I think we can expect to skew the other way.

I think all the talk of the Bronco's new offense expecting to run 55 times a week is silly. Tebow will need to continue to improve his passing game if the Broncos expect to be a serious contender in the future. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that he will.

Agreed. And that 30-20 run pass is contrary to league averages, but with Tebow it may be ok. You don't want Tebow trying to pick up 3rd and 7's, but we've seen that he is a threat to make big plays with his running and passing. Go low risk, play field position and hope the defense can keep it close for Tebow to compete.

SureShot
11-15-2011, 12:14 PM
He has been a complete Dbag when it comes to Tebow. All he does is complain about him. He must have been rubbing against Hoge for too long in the espn bathrooms.

You have a different name for coke than I do.

Mr.Meanie
11-15-2011, 12:37 PM
I thought this would be from Horvil Tiki. I am dissapoint.

The Moops
11-15-2011, 01:09 PM
If you know Tiki, everything he says or does has an underlying premise ... here, he wants to support Tebow because he wants to play this season. He knows Moreno is done. He hopes the Broncos think: Hey, Tiki is onboard with Tebow ... let's bring him in!

bendog
11-15-2011, 01:10 PM
If you know Tiki, everything he says or does has an underlying premise ... here, he wants to support Tebow because he wants to play this season. He knows Moreno is done. He hopes the Broncos think: Hey, Tiki is onboard with Tebow ... let's bring him in!

Possibly, but I think it's pretty clear that the talking heads that were "protebow" are lining up for props, and Tiki wants to go with the winners.

enjolras
11-15-2011, 01:17 PM
Agreed. And that 30-20 run pass is contrary to league averages, but with Tebow it may be ok. You don't want Tebow trying to pick up 3rd and 7's, but we've seen that he is a threat to make big plays with his running and passing. Go low risk, play field position and hope the defense can keep it close for Tebow to compete.

I'd like to see them take more big shots on 3rd and 7. Instead of just running into the defense and punting, why not just heave a few more up and see what happens?

bendog
11-15-2011, 01:25 PM
I'd like to see them take more big shots on 3rd and 7. Instead of just running into the defense and punting, why not just heave a few more up and see what happens?

Mia just blitzed the crap out of Tebow, and they did it with delayed blitzes which mean the oline can't really pick it up because the TE(s) will already be in routes, and Tebow couldn't make a quick short read and didn't have time for a longer pass. Det did the same, only as I recall they didn't need to blitz all that much, though to be honest I stopped watching when it got so ugly in the second half. But, I think that's why the emphasis on the run. 3rd and 3 is not an impossible situation for Tebow when Den's oline is capable of zone, power and option. 3rd and 7, with a defense either blitzing or getting pressure and keeping 7 in coverage, is not a situation good for tebow's current skills.

I said that Tebow would keep seeing blitz till he learned to beat it or Fox benched him. I was wrong. They altered the offensive scheme. On first and second down, they've got defenses having to make run calls, and sometimes they'll let Tebow take a shot downfield. If they get defenses making run calls even on 3rd and 7, then they might try it then too.

epicSocialism4tw
11-15-2011, 01:52 PM
I think the Chiefs game was the extreme end of our new philosophy. As the announcers noted, Fox expected a 30 run/20 pass split. If you play a team that can't stop the run (like the chorfs) then that gets skewed farther towards the run. If you play a team that is really stout against the run, then I think we can expect to skew the other way.

I think all the talk of the Bronco's new offense expecting to run 55 times a week is silly. Tebow will need to continue to improve his passing game if the Broncos expect to be a serious contender in the future. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that he will.

The game plan was actually really intelligent. If you look at the Chefs' offense, Cassel was passing for around 200 yards a TD and an INT in every game. Their backfield was decimated as well. So when the Broncos started off the game getting 5-7 yards on first down and plowing down the field, they saw an opportunity to put the Chefs down early and force their anemic passing game to play out of rhythm (only had 3 posessions in the first half!) and up-hill to try to catch up.

So the Broncos played the ball control and field position game. It was a very smart game plan. Its one that we certainly wouldn't have played with Orton.

A side benefit of playing such a run-heavy offense in this game is that it creates misconceptions in the minds of coaches who try to gameplan for the Broncos. It is so lopsided that they'll think that the team has somewhat abandoned the pass. It gets the media yammering about it and creates a perception about the Broncos that may not be entirely true.

Personally, I just think it boils down to the fact that the Broncos have been so successful running the ball that they just rode it out.

It was a darn-near flawless victory.

epicSocialism4tw
11-15-2011, 01:59 PM
Read it.

An NFL player who uses the word "duality" to describe his premise, and elaborates on it correctly? I'm surprised.

BroncoBeavis
11-15-2011, 03:59 PM
I thought this would be from Horvil Tiki. I am dissapoint.

Heh. That was my first thought too. :)

jsco70
11-15-2011, 05:44 PM
Cris Carter just pounded Tebow and the Broncos this morning. Says you can't put an Armani suit on a hobo, which might explain a little about why Cris never got a ring--wide receivers disease.

I was only able to listen to a portion, but prior to talking about Tebow, he went on and on about giving Matt Leinert and other young QBs time. I had to go into work, but I knew he would completely contradict his statement when Tebow came up.

footstepsfrom#27
11-15-2011, 06:50 PM
I recall when Chris Carter was only to happy to discuss his role in menntoring Brandon Marshall the year prior to when he came out of college and briefly thereafter. Once BM began his spiral downward, he never mentioned him again in that context...I have little respect for any of these guys who have jumped on the haters bandwagon because it's painfully obvious where their opinions are rooted and why they are so passionately eager to see him fail. In fact it's insulting to any reasonable person's intelligence, which is why I ignore them. If anythiing all it's likely to do is motivate this guy even more and harder than he already is, which can only help him and the team. So thanks for that Chris...but it's gonne be so sweet when they all eat crow on this guy.

ghostofjosh
11-15-2011, 07:07 PM
Tiki makes some valid points (http://thexlog.com/201111151154/xtra-point-football/nfl/tikis-take-it%E2%80%99s-tebow-time/) about the future of QBs in the NFL. If the Broncos could win with Tebow completing two passes, what’s wrong with that?

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2826/marburyairball4tk.gif

lod01
11-15-2011, 07:40 PM
Tiki is a moron. Everyone knows that. Did he mention that tebone was the QB vs 2 of the worst teams in the NFL? Didn't think so.

ol#7
11-16-2011, 03:27 AM
Cris Carter is a moron. I am pretty sure you can put an Armani suit on a hobo. Hasnt he ever seen Trading Places?

MacGruder
11-16-2011, 03:56 AM
Yup. I think we lose handily on Thu if we don't have some success throwing the ball. And all this talk of the revolution will be water under the bridge.

That just shows how stupidly reactionary the NFL is.. if something isn't a complete and utter success immediately out of the gates it is considered a failure.

This is why the NFL has the most boring game plans imaginable. The NBA is the same way.

It makes no sense though.. most teams don't stop passing after they have a horrible game passing the ball.

Bronco Yoda
11-16-2011, 06:27 AM
Tiki makes some valid points (http://thexlog.com/201111151154/xtra-point-football/nfl/tikis-take-it%E2%80%99s-tebow-time/) about the future of QBs in the NFL. If the Broncos could win with Tebow completing two passes, what’s wrong with that?

I thought it was a fair article. Can't argue any of his points really.

All we can ask is for Fox to try and develop Tebow while still trying to win some games. And he's doing that now.

All we can ask Tebow to do is try and improve. He's making strides every game so i can't complain either.

The WR's are going to have to grow up quick. They seem to be improving.

The Line is going to have to continue to improve. They seem to be doing alright in the run game. The Pass blocking is going to take some time.

Who knows if it will work out. If not, we reboot. Hopefully we at least give it all enough time for real attempt at developing something.

In the meantime we got a Defense to build.

BroncoInferno
11-16-2011, 06:38 AM
Yup. I think we lose handily on Thu if we don't have some success throwing the ball. And all this talk of the revolution will be water under the bridge.

Even if we struggle offensively, we'll have a chance to win the game as long as we don't turn it over. Why? Because Mark Sanchez is quite possibly the worst QB in the league. If you gave me a choice between the two, I would take Tebow over Sanchez without batting an eye.

footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2011, 07:00 AM
I think the Chiefs game was the extreme end of our new philosophy. As the announcers noted, Fox expected a 30 run/20 pass split. If you play a team that can't stop the run (like the chorfs) then that gets skewed farther towards the run. If you play a team that is really stout against the run, then I think we can expect to skew the other way.

I think all the talk of the Bronco's new offense expecting to run 55 times a week is silly. Tebow will need to continue to improve his passing game if the Broncos expect to be a serious contender in the future. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect that he will.
Rep

TonyR
11-16-2011, 07:17 AM
Even if we struggle offensively, we'll have a chance to win the game as long as we don't turn it over. Why? Because Mark Sanchez is quite possibly the worst QB in the league.

I don't necessarily disagree on Sanchez, but the Jets O is a respectable 14th in the league in scoring. But agree that if our D plays well we can "stay in the game".

Pick Six
11-16-2011, 09:20 AM
Even if we struggle offensively, we'll have a chance to win the game as long as we don't turn it over. Why? Because Mark Sanchez is quite possibly the worst QB in the league. If you gave me a choice between the two, I would take Tebow over Sanchez without batting an eye.

As long as Curtis Painter is starting, that statement is a bit of a stretch...