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The Joker
11-14-2011, 09:09 AM
Have we finally found a DC that's going to stick around for more than a year?

Bates, Slowick, Nolan and Martindale were all one and done, but it sure looks to me like we've found a guy who's going to break that horrible run. Changing to a new defense with a shortened offseason and considerable lack of talent to work with I don't really see how he could be doing any better?

He's aggressive, but not overly so and seems to choose his moments to bring pressure well. The numerous too many/too few men on the field problems we had all last year seem to have all but vanished, and we're showing flashes of being a really good unit. We have a top ten run defense in terms of yards allowed per carry, and are also top 10 in terms of how many times we've sacked the QB. I'm sure we'll have a couple of games between now and the end of the year where the defense gets badly beaten on, but they just seem a much better unit than anything we've seen for quite a while (minus the 6 games where Nolan actually was allowed to run the defense.)

Obviously there's a ways to go, teams are passing the ball well against us when the pressure doesn't get there, we need much better coverage from our linebackers and we really need someone better than Goodman starting opposite Champ. The safeties also haven't looked great, but Moore and Carter have gotten a lot of game time this year and hopefully should take a step forward next year and become capable starters. We also need more talent on the D-Line, especially at DT.

Personally I'll be really excited to see what he can do with a couple of more high draft selections in there and with some of the young guys we already have getting another year under their belt.

Thoughts?

LetsGoBroncos
11-14-2011, 09:16 AM
Couldn't agree more. We went from worst D in the league by far to middle of the road in half a season...very impressive.

I like our future at safety with Carter and Moore. We need another good CB, some talent on the D-line and we should be in pretty good shape

Kaylore
11-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Allen has really coached well. Getting Von Miller, Dumervil back (even a wounded Dumervil) and the emergence of Chris Harris have really helped.

theStifmeister
11-14-2011, 09:32 AM
Winning fixes everything!!

gyldenlove
11-14-2011, 09:32 AM
Allen has really coached well. Getting Von Miller, Dumervil back (even a wounded Dumervil) and the emergence of Chris Harris have really helped.

He has Ayers, Bunkley and Marcus Thomas playing the best they have as well.

Man-Goblin
11-14-2011, 09:42 AM
Speaking of things that usually suck but have been quietly not horrible; the special teams. I know taking away kick off returns has helped, but the Broncos are really solid in the punt game on both sides.

UberBroncoMan
11-14-2011, 09:46 AM
Allen has really coached well. Getting Von Miller, Dumervil back (even a wounded Dumervil) and the emergence of Chris Harris have really helped.

Wouldn't that be something.

What we're really missing is turnovers.

Imagine if we had been getting them early in the year.

Everything would be different.

bowtown
11-14-2011, 09:51 AM
A lot of credit should go to our head coach as well. This is where he makes his money. If Fox and Allen can bring back the Orange Crush, I don't care how many times they run the ball on offense. I want our identity to be defense first.

Kaylore
11-14-2011, 10:01 AM
A lot of credit should go to our head coach as well. This is where he makes his money. If Fox and Allen can bring back the Orange Crush, I don't care how many times they run the ball on offense. I want our identity to be defense first.

I agree. I think they've received a lot of unfair criticism trying to balance a change of QB's, managing a locker room that favored the first QB while sedating the fans, rebuilding the worst rushing offense and worst defense, and bottom of the league special teams and changing your entire offensive philosophy midseason all with a heavily shortened preseason and a slew of injuries on the defensive line.

You look at what Fox was asked to do and the direction the team is headed, baring any huge set backs, he's got my vote of confidence for at least a few more years. Well done.

ColoradoDarin
11-14-2011, 10:10 AM
Allen (and Fox) has done a masterful job with the defense. I'm really impressed and I hope that he doesn't become a hot coaching commodity anytime soon (it's a paradox of course, if he makes our defense so good he will get a HC opportunity).

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-14-2011, 10:16 AM
I've really enjoyed watching what Allen's done with his side of the ball. Love the aggressiveness.

BroncoBeavis
11-14-2011, 10:20 AM
I think the single biggest factor improving the defense is the offense.

No turnovers means lots of cushion for the D to make a stop. Plus, like Dawk was saying, the ball control offense keeps the D fresh.

baja
11-14-2011, 10:26 AM
I agree. I think they've received a lot of unfair criticism trying to balance a change of QB's, managing a locker room that favored the first QB while sedating the fans, rebuilding the worst rushing offense and worst defense, and bottom of the league special teams and changing your entire offensive philosophy midseason all with a heavily shortened preseason and a slew of injuries on the defensive line.

You look at what Fox was asked to do and the direction the team is headed, baring any huge set backs, he's got my vote of confidence for at least a few more years. Well done.

The last two games have shown real improvement and you make some other good points. I am softening my position on Fox. Looking forward to watching the rest of the season unfold.

Shotgun Willie
11-14-2011, 10:27 AM
Plus, like Dawk was saying, the ball control offense keeps the D fresh.

Seems to be true if you look at the time of possession. But then when you look at the number of offensive plays run, you realize that the two teams were dead even.

teknic
11-14-2011, 11:22 AM
I really like Allen, and he's getting great results with our D.

John Fox isn't going to coach forever, and I'd love for Allen to be the head coach in waiting for the Broncos. I just hope another team doesn't offer him a HC position before Fox is done.

UberBroncoMan
11-14-2011, 11:26 AM
I really like Allen, and he's getting great results with our D.

John Fox isn't going to coach forever, and I'd love for Allen to be the head coach in waiting for the Broncos. I just hope another team doesn't offer him a HC position before Fox is done.

Hate to say it but Fox is only 56 and Allen is 39.

Bill Belichick is 59 as is Shanahan and both want to coach for many more years.

Tom Coughlin is 65.

Fox has been coaching for 30+ years. He's not going to quit any time soon and most DC's start thinking about becoming a HC in their 40's.

bowtown
11-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Hate to say it but Fox is only 56 and Allen is 39.

Bill Belichick is 59 as is Shanahan and both want to coach for many more years.

Tom Coughlin is 65.

Fox has been coaching for 30+ years. He's not going to quit any time soon and most DC's start thinking about becoming a HC in their 40's.

I can't believe Coughlin is only 65. He looks like he's about 83.

vonqkilla
11-14-2011, 11:32 AM
Unleashing Von, and corners works. DA is doing great. Nunelly too.

I hope he sticks around a few years. A few downs he let off, vs Oak aftet a big sack, but I really like DAs agressive calls.

Vine
11-14-2011, 11:32 AM
Overall, I think Allen has done a fine job.

At times, he has fantastic defensive gameplans. Quite aggressive, which I love.

Other times, he is not aggressive enough. Such as when the Broncos gave up the two Raiders touchdowns last week.

UberBroncoMan
11-14-2011, 11:33 AM
I can't believe Coughlin is only 65. He looks like he's about 83.

Yeah he definitely looks like he's in his 70's at least.

With the hours coaches put in though, I'm not surprised to see accelerated physical aging.

Fox would look a bit older if he wasn't as hefty.

Lestat
11-14-2011, 11:35 AM
he's good but we need to flood him with more talent. if we can get a elite CB opposite Champ, a very good DT to pair with Bunkley(even when Warren comes back we need a guy to be really good in case he gets hurt again) & a top LB to pair with DJ.

UberBroncoMan
11-14-2011, 11:36 AM
Overall, I think Allen has done a fine job.

At times, he has fantastic defensive gameplans. Quite aggressive, which I love.

Other times, he is not aggressive enough. Such as when the Broncos gave up the two Raiders touchdowns last week.

It's funny. We went 3 man rush for KC's final drive and they begin to drive down the field like it was nothing. Then he finally said, F it and went back for 4 man + and we won the game. Never understood the fascination with protection defense.

BroncoBeavis
11-14-2011, 11:54 AM
Seems to be true if you look at the time of possession. But then when you look at the number of offensive plays run, you realize that the two teams were dead even.

It's not even about who had more plays than the other. It's about reducing the total number of plays in the game by running a lot of clock.

Shotgun Willie
11-14-2011, 12:05 PM
It's not even about who had more plays than the other. It's about reducing the total number of plays in the game by running a lot of clock.

I understand that. But again, the average number of offensive plays run in an NFL game is typically between 60 and 70. The Chiefs ran 62 plays yesterday.

Mogulseeker
11-14-2011, 12:05 PM
Vaughn and Harris are good nickle-dime corners... can Goodman and bring in a 1st rounder at corner this year.

I would say D-tackle, but WTF happened to McBean this year? He went from god-awful to pretty good. Bunkley has been playing at a very high level as well. Maybe spend a 2nd on a rotational D-tackle... if Irving is a bust, get a solid cover MLB in the 3rd.

Take Rodney Stewart in the 4th as a cop-back from Moreno and McGahee. Our O is young and full of potential... address some of the age issues in the D, and we could be competitive in the next couple years.

broncosteven
11-14-2011, 12:08 PM
What I like about Allen is that he is using all his guys.

He started Mays this week vs a run heavy team and it worked. The previous 2 weeks he put Woodyard, DJ, and Miller out there and it payed off. Not sure if the reason was because Mays was hurt or not...

I did notice yesterday they kept bringing a late blitzer which got into Cassells head as the game went on, then Miller started to get to Cassell and pound him into the ground.

Very good gameplan yesterday.

Mogulseeker
11-14-2011, 12:27 PM
BTW, what happened to Nate Irving?

Kaylore
11-14-2011, 12:41 PM
BTW, what happened to Nate Irving?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4lp8BRGKBqYOAo8IV0Rbd-WKLeXZMhrzgFIPShYqtXTO0jSEq-PdmcDNF

BroncoBeavis
11-14-2011, 01:08 PM
I understand that. But again, the average number of offensive plays run in an NFL game is typically between 60 and 70. The Chiefs ran 62 plays yesterday.

Huh. Wouldn't have expected that. The game did slow down quite a bit at the end. Didn't think it could make up for the first half though.

BroncoMan4ever
11-14-2011, 01:39 PM
Allen has really coached well. Getting Von Miller, Dumervil back (even a wounded Dumervil) and the emergence of Chris Harris have really helped.

is it just me, or does it seem in the last 2 weeks that Doom is returning to form? he just seems more natural out there again to me anyway.

bendog
11-14-2011, 01:43 PM
is it just me, or does it seem in the last 2 weeks that Doom is returning to form? he just seems more natural out there again to me anyway.

I thought his quote about his shoulder was probably really truthful. He depends on his shoulder more than other players to get seperation from the OT, and when he couldn't work out during the week and had pain during the game it limited him. He's short and light, but he's fast and had physically abnormally long arms. He doens't like it when OT's get on his body, which is one reason he's a run liability. ... But a sack monster, he is.

broncosteven
11-14-2011, 03:15 PM
is it just me, or does it seem in the last 2 weeks that Doom is returning to form? he just seems more natural out there again to me anyway.

He looks better.

Got to love it when a team (and or players) show improvement. Something we did not see any of over the last 2 years.

Popps
11-14-2011, 03:18 PM
Allen sucks. Confirmed by many experts here weeks ago. No need for this thread.

Shoemaker
11-14-2011, 03:49 PM
Allen sucks. Confirmed by many experts here weeks ago. No need for this thread.

Wait, I thought John Fox sucked. And Mike McCoy is the worst coordinator in the history of the universe.

...Come to think of it, how are we winning any games?

bowtown
11-14-2011, 03:50 PM
Wait, I thought John Fox sucked. And Mike McCoy is the worst coordinator in the history of the universe.

...Come to think of it, how are we winning any games?

Tim Tebow, duh. He instantly makes every coaching staff look better than they actually are.

baja
11-14-2011, 03:53 PM
Wait, I thought John Fox sucked. And Mike McCoy is the worst coordinator in the history of the universe.

...Come to think of it, how are we winning any games?

Well that's easy Tebow is winning in spite of the coaching staff trying to bury him.

Inkana7
11-14-2011, 04:30 PM
The whole defense this year is like night and day compared to last year. Allen seems pretty good, but we also have gotten a lot of new talent with Miller, Carter and Bunkley as well as some guys who finally look to have improved in Woodyard, Thomas, McBean. Their growth is visible, which is cool to see.

Hulamau
11-14-2011, 04:33 PM
I agree. I think they've received a lot of unfair criticism trying to balance a change of QB's, managing a locker room that favored the first QB while sedating the fans, rebuilding the worst rushing offense and worst defense, and bottom of the league special teams and changing your entire offensive philosophy midseason all with a heavily shortened preseason and a slew of injuries on the defensive line.

You look at what Fox was asked to do and the direction the team is headed, baring any huge set backs, he's got my vote of confidence for at least a few more years. Well done.

Bingo Khan .. the whole post!

teknic
11-14-2011, 06:13 PM
Wait, I thought John Fox sucked. And Mike McCoy is the worst coordinator in the history of the universe.

...Come to think of it, how are we winning any games?

You should try a google search for "the little known tebow effect."

razorwire77
11-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Considering the depth and talent concerns on defense, Allen has been really solid. In addition, the development of both blue chip younger players (Ayers and Miller) and some real surprises (Chris mother****ing Harris) has been great. I also like how he's stunting D.J. Williams to take advantage of his athleticism. At this point, draft D-line, CB depth, and SS and we have the makings of a top 10 defense.

Mogulseeker
11-15-2011, 05:42 PM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4lp8BRGKBqYOAo8IV0Rbd-WKLeXZMhrzgFIPShYqtXTO0jSEq-PdmcDNF

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s15e13-a-history-channel-thanksgiving

enjolras
11-15-2011, 06:08 PM
I would say D-tackle, but WTF happened to McBean this year? He went from god-awful to pretty good. Bunkley has been playing at a very high level as well. Maybe spend a 2nd on a rotational D-tackle... if Irving is a bust, get a solid cover MLB in the 3rd.

I disagree. I think McBean has been pretty solid during his entire tenure with the Broncos. When he was injured previously the defensive front quickly took a step back. He's not flashy and he's not a star, but he's exactly the type of solid defensive linemen you need on your team. I'm a big fan of the guy.

TheReverend
11-15-2011, 06:11 PM
What I like about Allen is that he is using all his guys.

He started Mays this week vs a run heavy team and it worked. The previous 2 weeks he put Woodyard, DJ, and Miller out there and it payed off. Not sure if the reason was because Mays was hurt or not...

I did notice yesterday they kept bringing a late blitzer which got into Cassells head as the game went on, then Miller started to get to Cassell and pound him into the ground.

Very good gameplan yesterday.

It's just dependent on what set the other team comes out in. Woody plays over Mays in the nickel.

enjolras
11-15-2011, 06:15 PM
The whole defense this year is like night and day compared to last year. Allen seems pretty good, but we also have gotten a lot of new talent with Miller, Carter and Bunkley as well as some guys who finally look to have improved in Woodyard, Thomas, McBean. Their growth is visible, which is cool to see.

You should lead with Ayers on that improved list. He's MILES ahead of where he was last year. He's bordering on being a very good run-stopping defensive end. He is excellent at containing his end position which creates a lot of opportunities for the pressure up the middle to get to the QB.

Really it comes down to coaching. Our previous regime (and probably the one before that) was pretty poor at developing defensive talent. Fox and Allen know what they're doing and are showing a real ability to develop the players that they have.

One very visible instance: when they sat Miller a few weeks back. Contrary to what the media wanted to make out of it, they knew that he needed to sit down and actually watch the game to better understand his responsibilities. I really believe that they wanted the opportunity to coach this kid up by giving him a front row seat rather than running around blindly without getting better.

Miller has come back from that a MUCH better player. Forget that he's suddenly some sort of inside-rushing guru (complete with a nasty power move towards the QB... which I don't think ANYONE anticipated he could do), he has been much more solid in his coverage assignments and has put himself around the ball much more effectively.

Remember when analysts and posters here were concerned about Millers ability to tackle? The guy is routinely throwing down textbox form tackles...

That's coaching. That's knowing how to develop talent.

It was something we were told Fox was particularly good at, and we're definitely seeing it up close. You only have to look to our division rivals (the Chargers in particular) to see an organization that is much more talented, but seems to have a lot of trouble developing that talent into consistent football players.

enjolras
11-15-2011, 06:19 PM
Couldn't agree more. We went from worst D in the league by far to middle of the road in half a season...very impressive.

I like our future at safety with Carter and Moore. We need another good CB, some talent on the D-line and we should be in pretty good shape

Does anyone know what's going on with Moore? It seems that we're seeing Carter at FS on the majority of snaps (not positive on this, just my impression). It's so hard to get a read on safety play from the TV...

broncosteven
11-15-2011, 06:58 PM
It's just dependent on what set the other team comes out in. Woody plays over Mays in the nickel.

Vs Oakland they started Woodyard, when they introduced the D the LB line up was Woodyard (WILL), DJ (MIKE), Miller (SAM)

I want to say they used the same lineup the week before Oakland too.

VS KFC they introduced

DJ (WILL), Mays (MIKE), Miller (SAM)

I remember the Oakland game because DJ was playing lights out at MLB.

They could have brought Woodyard in for Mays Sunday but I didn't see it but I don't have a DVR on the Sunday Ticket, I only have DVR on Uverse.

Inkana7
11-15-2011, 07:10 PM
Vs Oakland they started Woodyard, when they introduced the D the LB line up was Woodyard (WILL), DJ (MIKE), Miller (SAM)

I want to say they used the same lineup the week before Oakland too.

VS KFC they introduced

DJ (WILL), Mays (MIKE), Miller (SAM)

I remember the Oakland game because DJ was playing lights out at MLB.

They could have brought Woodyard in for Mays Sunday but I didn't see it but I don't have a DVR on the Sunday Ticket, I only have DVR on Uverse.

Woodyard was inactive with an injury against KC.