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rugbythug
11-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Contrarian Football

Football has been and probably always will be a Copy Cat league. However when teams are trend setters you see the Results show up in the W-L column.

Early 3-4 Adapters
Early Zone Blocking Adapters
Early West Coast Offense adapters


After the league catches up however the advantage narrows.

For the last 2 years Tebow was a Zone Read QB which because of the investment in QB's and the hits they took would never make it in the NFL. However if you look at the value the NFL places on Zone Read QB's one could easily make the case that they are completely undervalued. The Denver Broncos could pick up 3 of the greatest Zone Read QB's that have ever played college football with minimum investment.

Tim Tebow
Vince Young
Denard Robinson


Thus protecting its own investment into a system that puts hits on the QB.

Building a team upon a scheme everyone knows won't work has definite advantages. Teams must adjust to our style of play tremendously. This is not a tweak to the previous weeks game plan. Each team would need to require a completely different style of play. It would also be unlikely that a Defense would out execute when they play against the style 1 or 2 games per season and the offense plays in the style 16.

With this comes the fact that the rest of the NFL is going so completely pass heavy in their talent Investment. If everyone else gears their defense to stop the pass and the Broncos are totally invested in a primary run offense their will be imbalance.

At some point the Zone Read will become a staple offense in the NFL, for at least a few teams. It is far to dominant in College Football for it not to become part of the NFL. Will it be successful, yes for a time. Will it have lasting success- Well No- But then again nothing does. Should the Broncos sell out to try and be the first? What do we have to lose?

TheReverend
11-12-2011, 10:49 AM
http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

I talked about this and used some of the exact same examples in the podcast...

rugbythug
11-12-2011, 10:51 AM
Sorry-Didn't listen to the podcast

rugbythug
11-12-2011, 10:51 AM
However you must be really smart.

teknic
11-12-2011, 10:54 AM
With this comes the fact that the rest of the NFL is going so completely pass heavy in their talent investment. If everyone else gears their defense to stop the pass and the Broncos are totally invested in a primary run offense their will be imbalance.

Good post, but I think you're jumping to far too many conclusions. You have the foresight to see how a radical scheme could give us short term success (see Wildcat, Miami Dolphins), but you're assuming that the Broncos are going to use the zone read as their base play on offense rather than use it as a package for a handful of times a game. I believe the latter has the chance to give the Broncos an advantage for the long term, but I don't believe a full commitment to the zone read would have the lasting success. There are too many smart DCs with talented defenses in the NFL; someone will figure out a successful defensive adjustment for the zone read if you make it the primary focus of your offensive gameplan.

You raise an interesting point about being able to acquire zone read players in the draft and FA inexpensively because they are not as valued in traditional offenses though.

Play2win
11-12-2011, 11:06 AM
ZR / WCO Hybred?

Jay3
11-12-2011, 11:19 AM
BTW, I don't think Denard Robinson is good enough as a passer to play the position.

When I watch him play, I think "I wonder if this is how Tebow comes across to those who are down on him."

I don't think Denard Robinson will be drafted.

CEH
11-12-2011, 11:32 AM
Good post, but I think you're jumping to far too many conclusions. You have the foresight to see how a radical scheme could give us short term success (see Wildcat, Miami Dolphins), but you're assuming that the Broncos are going to use the zone read as their base play on offense rather than use it as a package for a handful of times a game. I believe the latter has the chance to give the Broncos an advantage for the long term, but I don't believe a full commitment to the zone read would have the lasting success. There are too many smart DCs with talented defenses in the NFL; someone will figure out a successful defensive adjustment for the zone read if you make it the primary focus of your offensive gameplan.

You raise an interesting point about being able to acquire zone read players in the draft and FA inexpensively because they are not as valued in traditional offenses though.

You hit the nail on the head. Short of exposing your QB to hits at the NFL level, we are not giving any credit to the DCs around the league who's sole purpose is to stop offenses. It is not their hobby it's thier job and they are very good at it. Reason it works in college is the talent level is so diverse it skews the results.

What is one of the primary goals of any defense heading into a game. Make the other team one dimensional. Correct? We hear it all the time. Well right now Denver is one dimenisonal. This is why they want Tebow to become better at completing passes. If Tebow can complete passes downfield (i.e. over 11 yards) with more consisency make the defenses pay for trying to stop the run.

epicSocialism4tw
11-12-2011, 11:57 AM
I talked about this and used some of the exact same examples in the podcast...

I don't listen to your podcast.

epicSocialism4tw
11-12-2011, 12:00 PM
Good post, but I think you're jumping to far too many conclusions. You have the foresight to see how a radical scheme could give us short term success (see Wildcat, Miami Dolphins), but you're assuming that the Broncos are going to use the zone read as their base play on offense rather than use it as a package for a handful of times a game. I believe the latter has the chance to give the Broncos an advantage for the long term, but I don't believe a full commitment to the zone read would have the lasting success. There are too many smart DCs with talented defenses in the NFL; someone will figure out a successful defensive adjustment for the zone read if you make it the primary focus of your offensive gameplan.

You raise an interesting point about being able to acquire zone read players in the draft and FA inexpensively because they are not as valued in traditional offenses though.

Adam Weber fits the offense as well. I'd roll him out as #3.

1-Tebow
2-VY
3-Weber

You roll with that, and you change it up occasionally by playing the #2 QB for a couple of plays.

Change the game. I'm all for it. If Fox has the cajones, it wil make him one of the most influential coaches in NFL history.

Bronco Yoda
11-12-2011, 12:02 PM
It's a little too early to assume we're going all in on this scheme. More like were giving Tebow time to develop into a more traditional passer. My guess is we'll settle somewhere in between when all is said and done.

ICON
11-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Will they re-write the whole theory on what will work and what will not work in the pros? We will see

DrFate
11-12-2011, 12:46 PM
I don't listen to your podcast.

You should. It's pretty enjoyable.

briane
11-12-2011, 04:39 PM
Adam Weber fits the offense as well. I'd roll him out as #3.

1-Tebow
2-VY
3-Weber

You roll with that, and you change it up occasionally by playing the #2 QB for a couple of plays.

Change the game. I'm all for it. If Fox has the cajones, it wil make him one of the most influential coaches in NFL history.

I really like this idea, but I doubt that EFX will really go all in on an offense like this.

TheReverend
11-12-2011, 05:15 PM
I don't listen to your podcast.

I don't care?

Mogulseeker
11-12-2011, 06:37 PM
Bring in VY if the price is right.

Mogulseeker
11-12-2011, 06:38 PM
ZR / WCO Hybred?

Repped this and OP.

This is going to be a great thread.

epicSocialism4tw
11-12-2011, 09:09 PM
You should. It's pretty enjoyable.

Oh, I'm sure its enjoyable.

That clown barged in on this guy's good thread about football with trolling about his little podcast bit. Nobody cares that he "covered" it on his podcast. If he doesn't want to talk about it he can bugger off.

houghtam
11-12-2011, 10:37 PM
Football has been and probably always will be a Copy Cat league. However when teams are trend setters you see the Results show up in the W-L column.

The seven castaways agree with you.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R2-Xq6NuwY0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

teknic
11-13-2011, 12:24 AM
Based on Elway's comments about winning championships from the pocket, I doubt a zone read would be his vision for the Broncos.

The way I see it is Tebow either develops as a passer and can be efficient in a regular offense, or we'll be looking for a new QB. If Tebow proves he can throw, then the zone read can be added in for 5-10 plays a game. Because it's not the focus of the offense, it can be effective for a handful of plays a game.

Armchair Bronco
11-13-2011, 04:21 AM
Don't you also need a head coach who isn't the second coming of Dan Reeves and Chuck Knox?