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View Full Version : Tebow and Delay of Game Penalties


Armchair Bronco
11-10-2011, 12:37 PM
Instead of messing around with Tebow's unconventional throwing mechanics, I think the Broncos coaches should work on helping Tebow eliminate the maddening Delay of Game penalties that show up about 3 times each game.

And that's not including times when he takes the snap with zero seconds left or when the coaches have to call Time Out to avoid a penalty.

I understand that Tim only has 6 games under his belt, but so far his lack of clock management skills seems pretty apparent. This can be fixed by better coaching. Fox & Co. need to get the plays in faster, too.

Armchair Bronco
11-10-2011, 12:39 PM
Of course, when you're focusing most of your attention on getting someone to throw the ball as unnaturally as possible, it's not surprising that coachable skills like clock management are put on the back burner...

KO5K
11-10-2011, 12:40 PM
Over exaggerating the number of times it has happened.

Armchair Bronco
11-10-2011, 12:43 PM
I think the AVERAGE for this season is at least 2.5 times per game. Call me "Old School" but 2.5 times per game is a lot.

EDIT: Just checked NFL.com, and Tebow had 3 Delay of Game penalties against the Faiders. Plus I remember at least 1 timeout called to avoid a Delay of Game.

bowtown
11-10-2011, 12:48 PM
I think the AVERAGE for this season is at least 2.5 times per game. Call me "Old School" but 2.5 times per game is a lot.

EDIT: Just checked NFL.com, and Tebow had 3 Delay of Game penalties against the Faiders. Plus I remember at least 1 timeout called to avoid a Delay of Game.

Eli has made an entire career out of it.

Armchair Bronco
11-10-2011, 12:49 PM
Isn't this something that can be fixed by better coaching? Like having a 25 second clock during practices or something?

Doesn't seem like rocket science, but apparently it is for some teams and QB's.

bowtown
11-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Isn't this something that can be fixed by better coaching? Like having a 25 second clock during practices or something?

Doesn't seem like rocket science, but apparently it is for some teams and QB's.

The questions is, who's fault is it? Tebow is not calling a ton of audibles at the line like Eli does--which is often the reason for his--so I'm thinking that the plays may be coming in late to Tebow and he's probably taking a little too long to look them up on his arm band or process them, especially since both QB and OC are working with new plays in a new system. It's probably on both of them to clean it up. I'm guessing we'll see less of them as both get more comfortable.

jhns
11-10-2011, 12:54 PM
I think the AVERAGE for this season is at least 2.5 times per game. Call me "Old School" but 2.5 times per game is a lot.

EDIT: Just checked NFL.com, and Tebow had 3 Delay of Game penalties against the Faiders. Plus I remember at least 1 timeout called to avoid a Delay of Game.

I see one in the second. There was another as they let the clock run before taking a knee, which doesn't count as a problem. What one am I missing?

BroncoBeavis
11-10-2011, 12:55 PM
The questions is, who's fault is it? Tebow is not calling a ton of audibles at the line like Eli does--which is often the reason for his--so I'm thinking that the plays may be coming in late to Tebow, especially since both QB and OC are working with new plays in a new system. It's probably on both of them to clean it up. I'm guessing we'll see less of them as both get more comfortable.

Didn't they say something during the last game about Fox yelling at McCoy to get the plays in faster?

Broncomutt
11-10-2011, 12:56 PM
I think game experience will him with this. Hoping the game will slow down for him a bit.

It's not like he's Wink Martindale sending 9 or 10 or 13 defenders out on the field several times a game.

baja
11-10-2011, 12:57 PM
Instead of messing around with Tebow's unconventional throwing mechanics, I think the Broncos coaches should work on helping Tebow eliminate the maddening Delay of Game penalties that show up about 3 times each game.

And that's not including times when he takes the snap with zero seconds left or when the coaches have to call Time Out to avoid a penalty.

I understand that Tim only has 6 games under his belt, but so far his lack of clock management skills seems pretty apparent. This can be fixed by better coaching. Fox & Co. need to get the plays in faster, too.

I have noticed when we get the right camera shot the play seems to come in late. Tebow strikes a posture that indicates he is getting the play in his head set with about half the 30 seconds gone by.

Anyone else notice that?

RunSilentRunDeep
11-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Some of it appears to be Tebow, but when the coaches take 25 seconds to get the kneel-down unit in at the end of the game, that's on them.

epicSocialism4tw
11-10-2011, 01:03 PM
Rembember when the center exchange was a problem? That was fun.``

zdoor
11-10-2011, 01:06 PM
Didn't they say something during the last game about Fox yelling at McCoy to get the plays in faster?

This...

I agree its an issue but I think its not just Tebow. I think the plays are coming late as was mentioned in the Faider game broadcast...

KO5K
11-10-2011, 01:07 PM
I have noticed when we get the right camera shot the play seems to come in late. Tebow strikes a posture that indicates he is getting the play in his head set with about half the 30 seconds gone by.

Anyone else notice that?

I remember someone here went to one of the games and noted that.

ghwk
11-10-2011, 01:07 PM
Would probably help if he didn't have to read it off his wrist as well.

Jay3
11-10-2011, 01:08 PM
It's embarrassingly high. Get the play-call in sooner to make it easier.

And it will subside, like the center exchange (as pointed out by eS4tw).

TheReverend
11-10-2011, 01:16 PM
Broncoman13 noticed this after the Lions game that I thought was interesting at the time:

I went to the game and didn't set it up to record so its hard to say what all went wrong with Tebow. Looked like there were some drops and some poorly thrown balls as well. But most of all, it looked like the Lions were selling out on blitzes. Tebow cannot make a throw under pressure. He just doesn't see the openings quick enough. What ticks me off is the lack of adjustment like screens. Franklin was horrible and I don't recall him getting much help... So not enough adjustment there either.

Last thing I noticed, Tebow wouldn't get the play sometimes until there was about 10 seconds left on the play clock. Doesn't give him much time to get to the line and make presnap reads. He needs to get the play quicker and get up to the line quicker.

baja
11-10-2011, 01:22 PM
Would probably help if he didn't have to read it off his wrist as well.

Ya I was going to mention this too.


BTW shouldn't he have the plays down well enough by now to not need this.

Although I do remember Elway needed a wristband play list for a while when Shanahan came in and he had played in Shanny's offense before and was already a veteran QB at the time.

Armchair Bronco
11-10-2011, 01:23 PM
I see one in the second. There was another as they let the clock run before taking a knee, which doesn't count as a problem. What one am I missing?

There was another one in the 3rd. 3rd & 8 from the OAK 32.

(3:54) (Shotgun) PENALTY on DEN-15-T.Tebow, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at OAK 32 - No Play.

One of the calls was kinda cheap; the refs called it the instant the clock hit zero. They usually give a little buffer, but not that time.

And then there was the timeout called to avoid a penalty.

Jay3
11-10-2011, 01:34 PM
Ya I was going to mention this too.


BTW shouldn't he have the plays down well enough by now to not need this.

Although I do remember Elway needed a wristband play list for a while when Shanahan came in and he had played in Shanny's offense before and was already a veteran QB at the time.

It's usually a "call sheet" so they coach can say a shortened, "code" version over the radio that corresponds to an installed play in the gameplan. The wristband is what tells Tebow what the play is, and then he calls out the full long form of it to the huddle.

Tom Brady uses one. It enables better and more certain short-hand communication off of the game plan sheet. Saves time.

I know Orton doesn't seem to use one, but it's not just a simple matter of knowing the playbook.

baja
11-10-2011, 01:36 PM
It's usually a "call sheet" so they coach can say a shortened, "code" version over the radio that corresponds to an installed play in the gameplan. The wristband is what tells Tebow what the play is, and then he calls out the full long form of it to the huddle.

Tom Brady uses one. It enables better and more certain short-hand communication off of the game plan sheet. Saves time.

I know Orton doesn't seem to use one, but it's not just a simple matter of knowing the playbook.

I see, thanks for the clarification.

Garcia Bronco
11-10-2011, 01:39 PM
He's processing a lot of inforamtion pre-snap and I feel confident they are working on it.

ant1999e
11-10-2011, 01:40 PM
This...

I agree its an issue but I think its not just Tebow. I think the plays are coming late as was mentioned in the Faider game broadcast...

This.

Punisher
11-10-2011, 01:50 PM
lol Tim Tebow is our QB

supermanhr9
11-10-2011, 01:56 PM
Dude, find another QB that has 3 games under his belt this year (last year doesn't count duh lol) that doesn't have this problem.

Even Vets run the clock down to 1-2 seconds every time cause their analyzing the defense, etc.

This goes away just like herpes..... wait.... I mean..... Crap never mind. Go Tebow!

hahaha

ghwk
11-10-2011, 01:59 PM
There was another one in the 3rd. 3rd & 8 from the OAK 32.

(3:54) (Shotgun) PENALTY on DEN-15-T.Tebow, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at OAK 32 - No Play.

One of the calls was kinda cheap; the refs called it the instant the clock hit zero. They usually give a little buffer, but not that time.
And then there was the timeout called to avoid a penalty.

Yeah I was yelling at the TV at how fast that whistle was blown.

Broncoman13
11-10-2011, 02:03 PM
I remember someone here went to one of the games and noted that.

I mentioned after I got back from the Lions game and noticed it again last week. The plays are getting in slowly and not giving Tebow much time to get a good pre snap read. That is a bigger issue to me. He can't audible into a good play. I think this has a lot to do with everyone being at least a little unfamiliar with the new offensive plays. McCoy will take a little while to learn how to build off of what is being successful. I give him a pass in that regard, isn't going to happen overnight. I also suspect that Tebow will be given more and more freedom to audible into the zone read plays. This will give McCoy the ability to call a play more quickly and Tebow the time to see the defense and make the adjustment if necessary.

TheReverend
11-10-2011, 02:15 PM
I mentioned after I got back from the Lions game and noticed it again last week.

Yup, I linked your post last page :)

Broncoman13
11-10-2011, 02:27 PM
Yup, I linked your post last page :)

You da'man!

SonOfLe-loLang
11-10-2011, 02:29 PM
i dont really see this as an issue...all young QBs go through this. if this were tebow's biggest problem, we'd take it. Lets see how he finds his tight end this week when they blitz to stop the run

KO5K
11-10-2011, 02:38 PM
Ya I was going to mention this too.


BTW shouldn't he have the plays down well enough by now to not need this.

Although I do remember Elway needed a wristband play list for a while when Shanahan came in and he had played in Shanny's offense before and was already a veteran QB at the time.

I could find pictures of half the QBs in the league wearing a play list wristband, including Brady.

TheReverend
11-10-2011, 02:46 PM
You da'man!

I like giving credit where it's due and you definitely deserved it. Nice observation.

strafen
11-10-2011, 02:53 PM
Instead of messing around with Tebow's unconventional throwing mechanics, I think the Broncos coaches should work on helping Tebow eliminate the maddening Delay of Game penalties that show up about 3 times each game.

And that's not including times when he takes the snap with zero seconds left or when the coaches have to call Time Out to avoid a penalty.

I understand that Tim only has 6 games under his belt, but so far his lack of clock management skills seems pretty apparent. This can be fixed by better coaching. Fox & Co. need to get the plays in faster, too.It's the responsibility of the OC to send the play out onto the field -to his QB- on time.
Delay of game is not necessarily the QB's fault...

Jay3
11-10-2011, 02:57 PM
I think they're probably talking with the booth about the defensive formation, and dialing up a play that pwns it.

Armchair Bronco
11-10-2011, 02:58 PM
It's the responsibility of the OC to send the play out onto the field -to his QB- on time.
Delay of game is not necessarily the QB's fault...

I agree. If he were acting like Peyton Manning and changing the play 17 times, that'd be one thing. But he's hardly got enough time to get the original play off.

I'm sure we'll see improvement.

Gort
11-10-2011, 03:01 PM
It's usually a "call sheet" so they coach can say a shortened, "code" version over the radio that corresponds to an installed play in the gameplan. The wristband is what tells Tebow what the play is, and then he calls out the full long form of it to the huddle.

Tom Brady uses one. It enables better and more certain short-hand communication off of the game plan sheet. Saves time.

I know Orton doesn't seem to use one, but it's not just a simple matter of knowing the playbook.

to be fair, Orton only had about 5 plays he needed to know.

1) throw it deep to lloyd
2) drop back in pocket, fall down into fetal position
3) hand off to "happy feet" moreno for no gain
4) throw it out of bounds
5) drop back in pocket, scramble, fall down into fetal position

and since he chugged Jack Daniels on the sideline between offensive series, they really couldn't make the offense too much more complicated for him.

;)

Gort
11-10-2011, 03:04 PM
I could find pictures of half the QBs in the league wearing a play list wristband, including Brady.

i post a pic of Brady with a play list wristband every time some mouth breather complains about Tebow being so awful and unprepared that he needs a play list wristband.

likely suspects include TGN, crackpipe, bendingoverhisdog, and ewbronco.

DrFate
11-10-2011, 03:06 PM
i post a pic of Brady with a play list wristband every time some mouth breather complains about Tebow being so awful and unprepared that he needs a play list wristband.

likely suspects include TGN, crackpipe, bendingoverhisdog, and ewbronco.

http://www.thesportsdudeonline.com/post/1582294830/tom-bradys-wristband-tom-brady-has-put-together

baja
11-10-2011, 03:07 PM
i post a pic of Brady with a play list wristband every time some mouth breather complains about Tebow being so awful and unprepared that he needs a play list wristband.

likely suspects include TGN, crackpipe, <b>bendingoverhisdog,</b> and ewbronco.

LOL who is that I can think of a couple of fits.

Gort
11-10-2011, 03:08 PM
http://www.thesportsdudeonline.com/post/1582294830/tom-bradys-wristband-tom-brady-has-put-together

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3364160&postcount=45

ColoradoDarin
11-10-2011, 03:09 PM
Yeah, Bman13 posted that after the Detroit game and I noticed a bit in the raider game. Right now, it's something in the communication between McCoy and Tebow, I'm not too worried about it. I'm pretty sure it will get fixed, but it's not the highest priority right now.

broncogary
11-10-2011, 04:35 PM
I think they're probably talking with the booth about the defensive formation, and dialing up a play that pwns it.

That's it. Everyone knows the defense lines up first. :wiggle:

Jay3
11-10-2011, 04:59 PM
That's it. Everyone knows the defense lines up first. :wiggle:

No, dillweed, they're analyzing the previous play or plays, thinking about what will work against what the defense seems to be doing.

It's just a long way of saying they're taking too long. :wiggle:

broncogary
11-10-2011, 05:02 PM
No, dillweed, they're analyzing the previous play or plays, thinking about what will work against what the defense seems to be doing.

It's just a long way of saying they're taking too long. :wiggle:

Look, the defense lines up, and then the offense lies up to match up. It's only obvious.:notworthy

Jay3
11-10-2011, 05:03 PM
I feel that I won this exchange because I called you dillweed.

broncogary
11-10-2011, 05:07 PM
I feel that I won this exchange because I called you dillweed.

Yes, but despite the fact that you and my wife have been in communication, I have been reading the Mane, so I can source my information. :thanku:

rock
11-10-2011, 05:11 PM
Sorry to tell you that EVERY QB does this. I've seen Brady do it more than one time this year.

broncogary
11-10-2011, 05:14 PM
Sorry to tell you that EVERY QB does this. I've seen Brady do it more than one time this year.

In your bedroom! He hasn't even seen the field this year. ROFL!

errand
11-10-2011, 05:36 PM
Since the plays are called in via headset how the hell does anybody know if they're being sent in on time?

DBroncos4life
11-10-2011, 06:02 PM
If the FO really backed the starting QB and get more time on the play clock for Tebow to use. ;D

baja
11-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Since the plays are called in via headset how the hell does anybody know if they're being sent in on time?

Sometimes you can tell by the QB's body language. You can see when he is listening carefully when you get the right camera shot.

NUB
11-10-2011, 09:07 PM
I think it's on the coaching staff most of the time. I don't see a lot of Tebow misunderstanding plays being sent in, for instance, but simply that the whole team is standing there waiting for the call.

ZONA
11-10-2011, 09:50 PM
This is definitely a coaching issue. With a young QB, you want him to be comfortable out there when going to the LOS. You already know it's going to take him a few seconds to look at the play on the armband, then another few seconds once at the LOS to look things over and process. The plays really should be called into him with 20 seconds on the clock. That leaves 5 seconds to look up play on wrist band, 5 seconds to huddle and call the play. 5 seconds to get the LOS and get set, and about 5 seconds for Tebow to look over the defense and snap the ball.

Inkana7
11-11-2011, 01:05 PM
Young QBs process the play calls slower than vets. This is a fact that we've seen for decades. So no, this is not the coaching staff's fault.

redrocket
11-11-2011, 03:17 PM
y do we hate on our own, tebow ILU, no homo

Jay3
11-11-2011, 04:01 PM
Young QBs process the play calls slower than vets. This is a fact that we've seen for decades. So no, this is not the coaching staff's fault.

Hey, someone should tell the coaching staff we have a young QB. (While assuring them it's not their fault).

Armchair Bronco
11-11-2011, 04:04 PM
Young QBs process the play calls slower than vets. This is a fact that we've seen for decades. So no, this is not the coaching staff's fault.

But if this is the case, shouldn't they get the calls in early so there's a buffer for Tebow to work with? That's my point.

BabyTO
11-11-2011, 04:17 PM
palmer had 2 delay of game penalties in the same game. stop bitching around, these things happen.

Armchair Bronco
11-11-2011, 04:36 PM
palmer had 2 delay of game penalties in the same game. stop b****ing around, these things happen.

Yeah, but Palmer's only been looking at the playbook for 2 weeks so I'm not surprised.

How many delay of game penalties has Brady had this year?

barryr
11-11-2011, 09:01 PM
A delay of game penalty is usually the result of the QB not getting the plays in a timely manner from the OC. That is also why most timeouts are called too, the play clock is about to expire and the play hasn't really been decided. Many QB's have a play sheet on their wrist, so Tebow having one is hardly unusual.

Inkana7
11-11-2011, 10:06 PM
But if this is the case, shouldn't they get the calls in early so there's a buffer for Tebow to work with? That's my point.

I really doubt that they're not getting them in as early as possible, dude.

epicSocialism4tw
11-11-2011, 10:10 PM
I really doubt that they're not getting them in as early as possible, dude.

But you really aren't for sure because you don't know.

Inkana7
11-11-2011, 10:13 PM
But you really aren't for sure because you don't know.

Delay of game penalties seemed to up after Tebow took over for Orton, so one can only assume that the variable in the equation is the reason for the change.

lonestar
11-12-2011, 12:25 AM
Instead of messing around with Tebow's unconventional throwing mechanics, I think the Broncos coaches should work on helping Tebow eliminate the maddening Delay of Game penalties that show up about 3 times each game.

And that's not including times when he takes the snap with zero seconds left or when the coaches have to call Time Out to avoid a penalty.

I understand that Tim only has 6 games under his belt, but so far his lack of clock management skills seems pretty apparent. This can be fixed by better coaching. Fox & Co. need to get the plays in faster, too.

Maybe they should get the play called in on time..

That might help some also..

Taco John
11-12-2011, 12:33 AM
I talked to a Giants fan tonight. He told me the worst thing that has ever happened to the Giants is Eli winning a Superbowl.

I'm still trying to process that one.

epicSocialism4tw
11-12-2011, 12:38 AM
I talked to a Giants fan tonight. He told me the worst thing that has ever happened to the Giants is Eli winning a Superbowl.

I'm still trying to process that one.

Goodness.

I suppose that he prefers Jeff Hostetler?

Blueflame
11-12-2011, 01:01 AM
I talked to a Giants fan tonight. He told me the worst thing that has ever happened to the Giants is Eli winning a Superbowl.

I'm still trying to process that one.

I don't get that either... not only was the win fantastic for Giants fans, it prevented 19-0 for the Spygate-era Patriots.

BabyTO
11-12-2011, 04:07 AM
Yeah, but Palmer's only been looking at the playbook for 2 weeks so I'm not surprised.

How many delay of game penalties has Brady had this year?
palmer didnt have a single delay of game penality in his very first game. it has nothing to do with knowing the playbook or not. mccoy gives him a play and tebow reads it off the playbook he got on his arm, how hard can that be. he doesnt even have to remember anything, so your argument doesnt work. in both cases with palmer and tebow.

these things happen, its not something that happens all the time with tebow, it doesnt happen more often to him that it does to other QB's. like i said, things happen. whether mccoy takes too long to get the play out, whether its the guys not lining up quick enough, whether its tebow not being around the scrimmage cause he was scrambling for 30 yards and has to hustle all the way back and loses time, whether tebow isnt quick enough to read the defense within a couple seconds when theyre still moving around and showing blitzes and whatnot, whether its the loud noise that gives him trouble. whatever. you act like hes too stupid to read a play off a playbook

BroncoBeavis
11-12-2011, 04:34 AM
Only one solution. No huddle baby - all the time. :)

TotallyScrewed
11-12-2011, 04:43 AM
My take away after reading this thread...

Another problem Tebow is facing is the lack of time to audible out of a bad play.

OrangeCrush2724
11-12-2011, 04:57 AM
Yeah Tebow gets the plays late, but Orton got them in time. A conspiracy to make Tebow look bad I tell you.

Come on people, he is basically a rookie and it's going to take some time to get clock management under his belt. Simple as that.

Jay3
11-12-2011, 05:36 AM
The main reason I think getting the play in earlier is relevant is that I watch a lot of football, and as a viewer I have a natural rhythm for when it feels like its time for the shot of the huddle.

All the time, I see Tebow standing there waiting for the play call. It genuinely feels like its taking about 5 seconds longer to get into the huddle.

strafen
11-12-2011, 07:00 AM
I talked to a Giants fan tonight. He told me the worst thing that has ever happened to the Giants is Eli winning a Superbowl.

I'm still trying to process that one.I kind of understand that statement...
If you understand this statemant:
"The worst thing that happened to the Broncos, was McDaniels starting 6-0"
Then you can see what he's trying to say...

strafen
11-12-2011, 07:02 AM
I really doubt that they're not getting them in as early as possible, dude.Since the people in the broacast booth were saying it was not on Tebow, I guess we should believe YOU better instead, huh?

OrangeCrush2724
11-12-2011, 07:41 AM
I don't think they said that exactly. It was more that they "thought" it was coming late.

To be fair they are most likely guessing themselves. The only way to be sure is to go back and ask the coaches in the post game. And are they really going to tell you that we have been calling plays later now then we did earlier in the season with Orton? I don't think so.

cutthemdown
11-12-2011, 07:51 AM
Tebow is looking on his wrist band for the calls and formations after getting the play in, as he gets more knowledgable about the plays he will get quicker and there will be less of them.

cutthemdown
11-12-2011, 07:52 AM
Also the personal groupings have changed a bit. So the players may not be as quick knowing when they are supposed to get on the field etc etc. It should quicken up over the nnext few games.

lonestar
11-12-2011, 08:17 AM
Only one solution. No huddle baby - all the time. :)

at home that would tear the opposing team and new one..

I would not be surprised to see it down the line..

cutthemdown
11-12-2011, 08:27 AM
Broncos want to eat clock so not sure no huddle would be used unless it was a no huddle where Tebow calls play at LOS, and they still use all the clock etc etc.

Dedhed
11-12-2011, 08:41 AM
I'm not too concerned that a QB with 6 starts under his belt has had a few clock management issues.

lonestar
11-13-2011, 04:20 PM
Broncos want to eat clock so not sure no huddle would be used unless it was a no huddle where Tebow calls play at LOS, and they still use all the clock etc etc.

Yet if they run the bejesus out if them at altitude in the second half they can just about do what they want to.

Only a team used altitude can be conditioned to play at it.

Even At sea level we would have most teams beat.

How about that running game today.

Armchair Bronco
11-13-2011, 04:22 PM
Tebow had 1 delay of game penalty today. The KC announcers blamed it on the coaches, and said that one of the Bronco players in the huddle was raising his arms up before the penalty as if to say "WTF?"

So, I blame the coaches.

Archer81
11-13-2011, 04:24 PM
The one called today was a little quick to me. Ball was snapped just as the clock rolled to 00.

Oh well.

:Broncos:

Goobzilla
11-13-2011, 04:25 PM
Another quick flag on a delay call today. Tebow isn't getting the full "bonus second" a lot of the other QB's get yet. 2 weeks in a row.

baja
11-13-2011, 04:44 PM
The one called today was a little quick to me. Ball was snapped just as the clock rolled to 00.

Oh well.

:Broncos:

Ya that was a home town call