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View Full Version : Tebow: 80% completion percentage in the second half


enjolras
11-09-2011, 08:53 AM
Something I haven't seen many people mention, so I thought I would point it out.

Tebow came out hot in the second half of the Raiders game and was 4-5 on his passes.

- T.Tebow pass short right to E.Decker to DEN 28 for 8 yards (S.Routt).
- T.Tebow pass short left to D.Rosario to DEN 40 for 13 yards (M.Huff).
- (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass incomplete deep middle to E.Decker.
- T.Tebow pass deep middle to E.Royal for 26 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
- (Shotgun) T.Tebow pass deep right to D.Thomas to OAK 48 for 29 yards (S.Routt) [T.Kelly].

At that point the running game became so incredibly effective that they didn't throw a pass after 6:41 in the 3rd quarter (he did take two sacks).

By my count Tebow was 4-5 for 55 yards (11 yards per attempt). The 1 incompletion came on an 8-man blitz and Tebow threw a nice tight spiral that was just out in front of Decker (he got his hands on it while laying out).

I've watched the second half a couple of times now, and it's just incredibly clear that Tebow came out in the second half relaxed and ready to play. From the first snap his footwork improved, his accuracy improved, and his decision making was impeccable.

It wasn't against super tight coverage as the Raiders were bringing huge pressure on every play which left receivers sitting in big zones. Still.. he got it done. In the early stages of that second half we saw that Tebow CAN play QB in this league...hopefully that will carry over to this week.

ColoradoDarin
11-09-2011, 08:54 AM
It really looked like the game was starting to slow down for him, hopefully the improvement continues.

peacepipe
11-09-2011, 08:57 AM
I'm sure if you take certain clips of games that ryan leaf played you'll come up with the same conclusion for him as you just did for tebow.

TheReverend
11-09-2011, 08:57 AM
He was playing at that level all game. He had 2 (by my count) poor passes (albeit both were REALLY poor lol). Otherwise there were 5 drops that hit people in the hands (and in one case, the facemask) and then some extremely low % endzone shots before the half.

Those plays are just greatly exaggerated with only 21 attempts and makes his % look poor.

It was a great game as the scoreboard indicated.

enjolras
11-09-2011, 08:58 AM
I'm sure if you take certain clips of games that ryan leaf played you'll come up with the same conclusion for him as you just did for tebow.

There was no question that Leaf could pass the ball, however. He's the absolute polar opposite of Tebow: million dollar arm and ten cent head.

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 09:01 AM
Interesting discussion with Greg Cosell that Uplink posted regarding the use of the read option:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3364979&postcount=2960

I tend to agree with Cosell's questions: Are you going to really want to run your QB that much in the NFL? Can he throw the necessary timing patterns in the read option to defeat the man coverage?

Obviously, the Raiders had no clue how to deal with it. I'll be very interested to see what Romeo Crennell comes up with this week after watching the film, and how the Broncos (and Tebow) adapt (if they need to) at the half.

jhns
11-09-2011, 09:06 AM
Interesting discussion with Greg Cosell that Uplink posted regarding the use of the read option:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3364979&postcount=2960

I tend to agree with Cosell's questions: Are you going to really want to run your QB that much in the NFL? Can he throw the necessary timing patterns in the read option to defeat the man coverage?

Obviously, the Raiders had no clue how to deal with it. I'll be very interested to see what Romeo Crennell comes up with this week after watching the film, and how the Broncos (and Tebow) adapt (if they need to) at the half.

I don't really get this logic. Why worry about him holding up until he shows he can't? We clearly didn't have a problem going into three consecutive seasons with Orton as starter. Orton has been injured in every season he has played, other than maybe his rookie year.

People are really reaching now. I can see why. Tebow continues to make you look stupid.

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 09:07 AM
I don't really get this logic.

No big surprise there.

jhns
11-09-2011, 09:09 AM
No big surprise there.

It is funny watching you jokes struggle to explain why the 2-1 Tebow is going to fail.

Haters gonna hate.

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 09:11 AM
Funny because all these talking heads wanted to say Tebow cant play an NFL style, he won't win. Now it's Hmmmm he won with this college style but next week you will see!

You can't help but want Tebow to shove all this up their collective asses. Whatever, if its he gets better passing, or just ends up the first QB to run for 20 tds in a yr, i really hope he wins enough to gain their respect and force some wow I had no idea from these haters.

Kaylore
11-09-2011, 09:14 AM
Too small a sample size. What is more impressive was the line calls. Much better this game. The offense was all on the same page and did what they wanted.

baja
11-09-2011, 09:14 AM
I don't really get this logic. Why worry about him holding up until he shows he can't? We clearly didn't have a problem going into three consecutive seasons with Orton as starter. Orton has been injured in every season he has played, other than maybe his rookie year.

People are really reaching now.<b> I can see why. Tebow continues to make you look stupid.

You love to play this game..

Can I play?

McDaniels was smart enough to go against league wide consensus and move up to grab Tebow in the first round so given your take on McDaniels does this make you look stupid?

Jesterhole
11-09-2011, 09:14 AM
It's almost like..he's a kid, learning the position, and he's getting better...each time he goes out. What a strange and unexpected phenomenon.

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 09:17 AM
Interesting discussion with Greg Cosell that Uplink posted regarding the use of the read option:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3364979&postcount=2960

I tend to agree with Cosell's questions: Are you going to really want to run your QB that much in the NFL? Can he throw the necessary timing patterns in the read option to defeat the man coverage?

Obviously, the Raiders had no clue how to deal with it. I'll be very interested to see what Romeo Crennell comes up with this week after watching the film, and how the Broncos (and Tebow) adapt (if they need to) at the half.

Broncos instead should attack Crennells defense and dictate to them. IMO we should devise a plan to open the game attacking their safeties in the passing game. They are banged up. Miami did that and Broncos should also.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:17 AM
Too small a sample size. What is more impressive was the line calls. Much better this game. The offense was all on the same page and did what they wanted.

Exactly. This is where the rubber meets the road on this oline and their ability to pick-up blocks.

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 09:21 AM
Funny because all these talking heads wanted to say Tebow cant play an NFL style, he won't win. Now it's Hmmmm he won with this college style but next week you will see!

You can't help but want Tebow to shove all this up their collective asses. Whatever, if its he gets better passing, or just ends up the first QB to run for 20 tds in a yr, i really hope he wins enough to gain their respect and force some wow I had no idea from these haters.

That's only on the OM where every argument is distilled into a juvenile hater/lover paradigm.

Cosell raises interesting questions. Does Tebow's game against the Raiders represent the threshhold of the read option coming into the NFL? I mean seriously, as a base offense? Will it work? Can a QB take the pounding? Traditionalists (no, not haters) question the viability of the offense in the NFL.

Broncos4tw
11-09-2011, 09:23 AM
Once Tebow has 60%+ passing rating and less then 20 yards rushing with at least 30 to 40% of third downs being converted against a team with a halfway decent defense.. I'll feel a bit better. I want to see a 280 yard game with decent #'s and a W.

Until then, I'll be excited to watch him, but nevous for our future with the guy.

jhns
11-09-2011, 09:23 AM
You love to play this game..

Can I play?

McDaniels was smart enough to go against league wide consensus and move up to grab Tebow in the first round so given your take on McDaniels does this make you look stupid?

Yeah. McDaniels clearly had this franchise going in the right direction.

Great logic baja.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-09-2011, 09:28 AM
Too small a sample size.

This.

8-10? 12-15?

Awesome.

4-5 and not throwing a pass for the last 20 minutes after a 6-16 1st half? Hopefully it's a trend that shows improvement, but it shouldn't be blowing anyone's skirt up.

bendog
11-09-2011, 09:32 AM
I thought the faide pretty much brought one of their safeties up and just dared Tebow to throw. He made enough throws do burn them. I thought the Faide looked pretty surprised at the read option. I'm not so sure the read option is viable for Tebow to run if a defense commits to the linebacker on the side away from the one the tailback holds contain. But that doesn't matter if the threat of Tebow running takes a linebacker out of pursuit. Still, Tebow connected on nearly 50% for ten completions averaging more than ten years per completion and two tds.

TonyR
11-09-2011, 09:32 AM
I don't really get this logic. Why worry about him holding up until he shows he can't?

LOL I know, right? I mean, who needs a healthy QB? We'll just run the offense without him!

bendog
11-09-2011, 09:33 AM
This.

8-10? 12-15?

Awesome.

4-5 and not throwing a pass for the last 20 minutes after a 6-16 1st half? Hopefully it's a trend that shows improvement, but it shouldn't be blowing anyone's skirt up.

i'm not giving up my virginity to him just yet.

jhns
11-09-2011, 09:33 AM
LOL I know, right? I mean, who needs a healthy QB? We'll just run the offense without him!

Because he isn't healthy!

Jay3
11-09-2011, 09:39 AM
It was a good showing in the second half, answering the bell. He looked crisp and on target, and the result was capped off with a touchdown pass.

The Broncos did not "rely on the zone read" or "rely on the run."

Then McGahee busted a long one. You'll take that every time.

Then Eddie Royal ran one back. You'll take that.

It was a good lead, and that's precisely when you would want to fall back on a "run first" mentality, to eat clock and make the Raiders show they could stop it.

They couldn't. With a touchdown lead, and with the entire defense knowing the Broncos wanted to run it and run the clock, the Raiders got GASHED. Just so happens that it resulted in a long TD by McGahee.

But I don't see how people keep acting like it was some sort of crutch or bread and butter -- the passing game was an undeniable part of getting the momentum back in the second half, and the lead.

HorseHead
11-09-2011, 09:45 AM
the past three games, and the three he started last year, have to be some of the most (over) analyzed games in history...

no nut huggin' here, but can the guy get a fu-king break? Jeebus F'n Chr-st..

Shotgun Willie
11-09-2011, 09:47 AM
he's getting better...each time he goes out.

I might buy that if I didn't see the game he played 10 days ago. And it goes against everyone's belief here that he looked better last year than he has this year (with the possible exception of this past week's game).

enjolras
11-09-2011, 09:50 AM
Once Tebow has 60%+ passing rating and less then 20 yards rushing with at least 30 to 40% of third downs being converted against a team with a halfway decent defense.. I'll feel a bit better. I want to see a 280 yard game with decent #'s and a W.

Until then, I'll be excited to watch him, but nevous for our future with the guy.

Don't get it. Your saying "I'm not going to be satisfied with Tim Tebow unless he's not Tim Tebow. Fair enough, but ya I'd be nervous too.

Look, Tebow is NEVER going to have the passing chops of a Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. His ability to be a star in this league is in how he can use his running ability to make the passing game easier. He can effectively bring NFL defenses down to his level.

I was just listening to a breakdown on the radio about how the Chiefs will try to attack the zone-read. They're talking about holding the defensive ends, bring corners up into press coverage, and playing zone in the middle.

Effectively this particular analyst is saying "the Chiefs are going to have to abandon the idea of pressuring the QB to take away that zone read."

Well that sounds great, because that sort of soft zone defense is precisely what Tebow has shown the ability to throw against. If he's effective throwing the ball they're going to have to go back to the Detroit model (constant pressure all the time), and then we're back to Tebow doing it with his legs.

I don't know if I've ever have been as excited for a road game as I am for this one. The possibilities are endless, I really hope our guys can execute.

enjolras
11-09-2011, 09:52 AM
I might buy that if I didn't see the game he played 10 days ago. And it goes against everyone's belief here that he looked better last year than he has this year (with the possible exception of this past week's game).

I agree with that. I thought last weeks game was the first in which Tebow showed noticeable improvement. The rest of his starts (putting aside the first start against Oakland last year in which the offensive gameplan clearly hadn't been installed) where wild rides of inconsistency.

The thing is..he showed real improvement.. I'm not sold that Tebow will be the starting QB next year, but I'm quite a bit closer than I was this time last week.

enjolras
11-09-2011, 09:53 AM
Broncos instead should attack Crennells defense and dictate to them. IMO we should devise a plan to open the game attacking their safeties in the passing game. They are banged up. Miami did that and Broncos should also.

I think they're going to have their safeties split into deep cover-2 behind cornerbacks in press coverage. If Tebow comes to play, Julius Thomas and Daniel Fells should have BIG days.

bendog
11-09-2011, 09:57 AM
Don't get it. Your saying "I'm not going to be satisfied with Tim Tebow unless he's not Tim Tebow. Fair enough, but ya I'd be nervous too.

Look, Tebow is NEVER going to have the passing chops of a Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. His ability to be a star in this league is in how he can use his running ability to make the passing game easier. He can effectively bring NFL defenses down to his level.

I was just listening to a breakdown on the radio about how the Chiefs will try to attack the zone-read. They're talking about holding the defensive ends, bring corners up into press coverage, and playing zone in the middle.

Effectively this particular analyst is saying "the Chiefs are going to have to abandon the idea of pressuring the QB to take away that zone read."

Well that sounds great, because that sort of soft zone defense is precisely what Tebow has shown the ability to throw against. If he's effective throwing the ball they're going to have to go back to the Detroit model (constant pressure all the time), and then we're back to Tebow doing it with his legs.

I don't know if I've ever have been as excited for a road game as I am for this one. The possibilities are endless, I really hope our guys can execute.

Exactly. And it spreads the field horizontally. And hopefully people will stop complaining about running on 2nd and ten to try to get tebow into 3rd and six not ten. They'll still blitz on passing situations

Jay3
11-09-2011, 09:57 AM
I might buy that if I didn't see the game he played 10 days ago. And it goes against everyone's belief here that he looked better last year than he has this year (with the possible exception of this past week's game).

Seriously, I know it sounds crazy, but he played better against Detroit than he did against Miami. He was getting rid of the ball more quickly on more plays.

The difference was that Detroit is a good team and it was a blowout. But Miami looked worse to me.

Lolad
11-09-2011, 10:00 AM
Once Tebow has 60%+ passing rating and less then 20 yards rushing with at least 30 to 40% of third downs being converted against a team with a halfway decent defense.. I'll feel a bit better. I want to see a 280 yard game with decent #'s and a W.

Until then, I'll be excited to watch him, but nevous for our future with the guy.

Why are you so concerned with numbers? He can convert a 3rd down by running (something Orton couldn't do/hardly every tried) or by passing. If he passes for 150 yards and runs for 50 and we win is that bad? Rothlisburger did that his first 2 years!!!

baja
11-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Yeah. McDaniels clearly had this franchise going in the right direction.

Great logic baja.

He did some good things and he failed at others. I get he needed to go.


You see things as completely black or completely white. Very young people often do this, it's not a bad thing but it's also not accurate.

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 10:18 AM
I don't really get this logic. Why worry about him holding up until he shows he can't? We clearly didn't have a problem going into three consecutive seasons with Orton as starter. Orton has been injured in every season he has played, other than maybe his rookie year.

People are really reaching now. I can see why. Tebow continues to make you look stupid.

You dont get that logic?? Ok lets think about this. On offense which skill position typically has the shortest life span.. I would say running back.. In the NFL its is widely believed a running back is past his prime at 30. So wouldn't it be logical to say that if Tebow continues plowing into defenders at this rate he not only will have injury problems but in 4 years will be ineffective. This is like saying I have a time bomb in my trunk by why worry about it until it goes off...

OrangeCrush2724
11-09-2011, 10:20 AM
When your running game fails, can he make the throws to win? Can he make the throws on 3rd and 8 instead of a give up QB run down the middle? Can he be more accurate in the pocket? Can he go toe to toe with the better defenses in the league (Pitt, Balt). These are some of the questions I hope he can answer with his play the rest of the way. The more game footage a team has, the easier it will be to stop Tebow, unless he really picks it up.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 10:22 AM
Obviously, the Raiders had no clue how to deal with it. I'll be very interested to see what Romeo Crennell comes up with this week after watching the film, and how the Broncos (and Tebow) adapt (if they need to) at the half.

The Raiders spent a week planning for that. They said it repeatedly after the game.

Shotgun Willie
11-09-2011, 10:23 AM
You see things as completely black or completely white.....it's not a bad thing

Yes it is.......only the Sith deal in absolutes!

peacepipe
11-09-2011, 10:24 AM
Why are you so concerned with numbers? He can convert a 3rd down by running (something Orton couldn't do/hardly every tried) or by passing. If he passes for 150 yards and runs for 50 and we win is that bad? Rothlisburger did that his first 2 years!!!tebow is 9-42 the last 3 games on 3rd down. in a so called improved game for tebow he was 3-12 on 3rd down against oak.

bendog
11-09-2011, 10:33 AM
and the faide was 4-12.

Mountain Bronco
11-09-2011, 10:35 AM
You could also say he was 100% for two plays or 0% for two plays. The smaller the sample size the harder it is to see what a measurement really means. Lets give him about 6 games and then look at his completion percentage and rushing yards, total yards, touchdowns and WINS then and only then will we have even a small glimpse as to what he is.

jhns
11-09-2011, 10:37 AM
He did some good things and he failed at others. I get he needed to go.


You see things as completely black or completely white. Very young people often do this, it's not a bad thing but it's also not accurate.

You are the one making the black and white responses dumbass. Wtf are you even talking about?

jhns
11-09-2011, 10:39 AM
You dont get that logic?? Ok lets think about this. On offense which skill position typically has the shortest life span.. I would say running back.. In the NFL its is widely believed a running back is past his prime at 30. So wouldn't it be logical to say that if Tebow continues plowing into defenders at this rate he not only will have injury problems but in 4 years will be ineffective. This is like saying I have a time bomb in my trunk by why worry about it until it goes off...

Tebow doesn't run like a RB. He slides, gets out of bounds, and doesn't pound it up the middle 15 times a game. He is also much bigger than most RBs. I don't think it is a good comparison. Just like every playet, I will worry about his durability when he shows it is an issue.

Elway said it isn't an issue. He said he always felt safer after leaving the pocket. You can take much worse hits, that you don't see coming, when in the pocket.

Jetmeck
11-09-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm sure if you take certain clips of games that ryan leaf played you'll come up with the same conclusion for him as you just did for tebow.

Don't let your hatred for Tebow show....................:kiss:

Jetmeck
11-09-2011, 10:50 AM
Don't get it. Your saying "I'm not going to be satisfied with Tim Tebow unless he's not Tim Tebow. Fair enough, but ya I'd be nervous too.

Look, Tebow is NEVER going to have the passing chops of a Rodgers, Manning, or Brady. His ability to be a star in this league is in how he can use his running ability to make the passing game easier. He can effectively bring NFL defenses down to his level.

I was just listening to a breakdown on the radio about how the Chiefs will try to attack the zone-read. They're talking about holding the defensive ends, bring corners up into press coverage, and playing zone in the middle.

Effectively this particular analyst is saying "the Chiefs are going to have to abandon the idea of pressuring the QB to take away that zone read."

Well that sounds great, because that sort of soft zone defense is precisely what Tebow has shown the ability to throw against. If he's effective throwing the ball they're going to have to go back to the Detroit model (constant pressure all the time), and then we're back to Tebow doing it with his legs.

I don't know if I've ever have been as excited for a road game as I am for this one. The possibilities are endless, I really hope our guys can execute.



These guys will never be able to hold the ends. I guarantee they will bite on the play fakes..................

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 10:51 AM
The Raiders spent a week planning for that. They said it repeatedly after the game.

That's not what Roto-world says:
After trying to shoehorn Tebow into a pro-style offense, the coaching staff finally came around to the idea that he's best utilized as a runner out of the spread used at Florida. The Raiders were caught off guard last week, struggling to adjust on the ground or through the air against the first team to run the read-option substantially in the NFL. Romeo Crennel's Chiefs defense will be better prepared this week, so Tebow will face a stiffer test. He's going to have to prove he can hit outside timing throws for continued success out of the read-option.

Or Yahoo:
John Fox and the Denver Broncos coaching staff had come under fire for allegedly not tailoring their offense to fit quarterback Tim Tebow's(notes) vastly different skill set. But in Sunday's 38-24 victory over the Oakland Raiders, the Broncos did just that, trotting out the read option, and the Raiders had no answer for it, as both Willis McGahee(notes) and Tebow topped 100 yards rushing in the game.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20111107_read_option_spurs_broncos_tebow_past_raid ers

Or the DP:
"He" is Tebow, and after the Broncos tilted their playbook toward his college roots, they went all-in against the Raiders on Sunday. The Broncos broke out their own edition of read option, using Tebow as a front-line ballcarrier or offering the threat of him as a front-line ballcarrier just before he handed the ball to running back Willis McGahee.
(Don't know how the Raiders could have prepared for it if they didn't know it was coming. Were they taping our practices?)

Interesting article, BTW (discussing possible impact of a QB running the offense in the NFL)
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19294314#ixzz1dEdPQ500
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Here's a post game selection of Raider quotes, and none of them mention it:
http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-vs-Broncos-Quote-Sheet/45539891-7759-468f-a37a-cab25054728d

Here's PFT's take:

Sounds like they don't think the Raiders were prepared for it.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/09/willis-mcgahee-has-warmed-up-the-read-option-attack/

BTW, McGahee is a believer now. ;D

Jetmeck
11-09-2011, 10:52 AM
tebow is 9-42 the last 3 games on 3rd down. in a so called improved game for tebow he was 3-12 on 3rd down against oak.

Compare that to Orton and get back to us and remember he gave us the best chance to win and is a how many year vet. TT has started 6 games.............geezus.........some of you are the thick headed people on the planet.............

jhns
11-09-2011, 10:56 AM
That's not what Roto-world says:
After trying to shoehorn Tebow into a pro-style offense, the coaching staff finally came around to the idea that he's best utilized as a runner out of the spread used at Florida. The Raiders were caught off guard last week, struggling to adjust on the ground or through the air against the first team to run the read-option substantially in the NFL. Romeo Crennel's Chiefs defense will be better prepared this week, so Tebow will face a stiffer test. He's going to have to prove he can hit outside timing throws for continued success out of the read-option.

Or Yahoo:
John Fox and the Denver Broncos coaching staff had come under fire for allegedly not tailoring their offense to fit quarterback Tim Tebow's(notes) vastly different skill set. But in Sunday's 38-24 victory over the Oakland Raiders, the Broncos did just that, trotting out the read option, and the Raiders had no answer for it, as both Willis McGahee(notes) and Tebow topped 100 yards rushing in the game.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20111107_read_option_spurs_broncos_tebow_past_raid ers

Or the DP:
"He" is Tebow, and after the Broncos tilted their playbook toward his college roots, they went all-in against the Raiders on Sunday. The Broncos broke out their own edition of read option, using Tebow as a front-line ballcarrier or offering the threat of him as a front-line ballcarrier just before he handed the ball to running back Willis McGahee.
(Don't know how the Raiders could have prepared for it if they didn't know it was coming. Were they taping our practices?)

Interesting article, BTW (discussing possible impact of a QB running the offense in the NFL)
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19294314#ixzz1dEdPQ500
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Here's a post game selection of Raider quotes, and none of them mention it:
http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-vs-Broncos-Quote-Sheet/45539891-7759-468f-a37a-cab25054728d

Here's PFT's take:

Sounds like they don't think the Raiders were prepared for it.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/09/willis-mcgahee-has-warmed-up-the-read-option-attack/

BTW, McGahee is a believer now. ;D

Some of those don't come close to saying what you are claiming. Not haveing the answer, doesn't mean you didn't prepare for it.

You bring up random media guys saying this though. It is the complete opposite of what raider coaches and players are saying. I'm sure those analysts know more about the raider practices than the raiders do though...

As for the part of, how would they know? We ran the option in every one of Tebows starts this year. I mean, really? Kind of proves the point about your sources.

You haters are trying too hard. So much fail.

Lolad
11-09-2011, 11:04 AM
tebow is 9-42 the last 3 games on 3rd down. in a so called improved game for tebow he was 3-12 on 3rd down against oak.

I can understand the need to improve on coverting 3rd downs. That's not what the person I quoted was suggesting. I'd bet half of those failed 3rd downs was due to QB draws when they didn't want to even try to convert it. Which nobody talks about when bringing up 3rd downs

NFLBRONCO
11-09-2011, 11:07 AM
We had 2 things that rarely happens for us 2 big play TD's take those away game is tied. The interesting thing to me can this offense win enough without the help of big plays or having an opposing O score more then 7 pts in a half.

jhns
11-09-2011, 11:08 AM
We had 2 things that rarely happens for us 2 big play TD's take those away game is tied. The interesting thing to me can this offense win enough without the help of big plays or having an opposing O score more then 7 pts in a half.

If the head coach doesn't take three points off the board, we still win without those two plays.

baja
11-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Yes it is.......only the Sith deal in absolutes!

Foolhardy yes - bad no

mhgaffney
11-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Interesting discussion with Greg Cosell that Uplink posted regarding the use of the read option:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3364979&postcount=2960

I tend to agree with Cosell's questions: Are you going to really want to run your QB that much in the NFL? Can he throw the necessary timing patterns in the read option to defeat the man coverage?

Obviously, the Raiders had no clue how to deal with it. I'll be very interested to see what Romeo Crennell comes up with this week after watching the film, and how the Broncos (and Tebow) adapt (if they need to) at the half.

This gets to the question now before us: Will Tim Tebow change the way the pro game is played?

The guy is built like a RB. He's clearly very tough -- can take a lot of punishment.

He might have a shortened career - but you have to wonder.

A QB who can run -- adds another threat level. It's another weapon. With a decent passing game -- and a raft of other playmakers -- like Royal in the slot and Moreno catching screens out of the backfield -- not to mention MacGhee -- Denver's Tebow led offense looks to have the potential to open up the game -- and take pro foooball to another level.

Here's hoping
MHG

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 11:11 AM
Some of those don't come close to saying what you are claiming. Not haveing the answer, doesn't mean you didn't prepare for it.

You bring up random media guys saying this though. It is the complete opposite of what raider coaches and players are saying. I'm sure those analysts know more about the raider practices than the raiders do though...

As for the part of, how would they know? We ran the option in every one of Tebows starts this year. I mean, really? Kind of proves the point about your sources.

You haters are trying too hard. So much fail.

Sure looked to me like they weren't prepared at all. I think I'll trust my own eyes over the take of some punk whose only agenda on this board is to turn everything he sees into some kind of weird, polarized pathos of good and evil.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2011, 11:11 AM
I don't really get this logic. Why worry about him holding up until he shows he can't? We clearly didn't have a problem going into three consecutive seasons with Orton as starter. Orton has been injured in every season he has played, other than maybe his rookie year.

People are really reaching now. I can see why. Tebow continues to make you look stupid.

No kidding! Where is the logic of not wanting your QB to run 10 times or more a game plus the knockdowns then add in the sacks to a 16 game season when you can compare him to Orton who isn't a running QB? Come on Maners, where is that logic? Why try to get Tebow to read defenses in a passing situation when we can just let him do the run option play throughout his career? Why work on his accuracy? We got Tebow's legs! Jizz, of course you don't get the logic. Your absolute redeculous :~ohyah!:.

baja
11-09-2011, 11:12 AM
You are the one making the black and white responses dumbass. Wtf are you even talking about?

What part don't you understand?

jhns
11-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Sure looked to me like they weren't prepared at all. I think I'll trust my own eyes over the take of some punk whose only agenda on this board is to turn everything he sees into some kind of weird, polarized pathos of good and evil.

Oh, well as long as your eyes saw it... Are these the same eyes that think Orton gives us the best chance to win? The eyes that are comlketely contradicting what the head coach of the raiders said?

What a joke.

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 11:15 AM
The Denver Post wonders about it too. Of course, they're probably just "haters" too.

Tebow took 17 hits Sunday, including sacks, rushing attempts, hits in the pocket as he threw and plays that were wiped away because of a penalty. By contrast the Saints' Drew Brees took three and the Packers' Aaron Rodgers had five, four of them sacks.
Draw that out for a 16-game season and Tebow would be on pace for 272 hits, many when he is a runner and even helmet-to-helmet contact is permitted on a running play if the defender doesn't launch himself into the tackle.
There also is the matter of what the Broncos do with an option gameplan if Tebow is injured during a game and they have to put Kyle Orton or Brady Quinn into the lineup.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19294314#ixzz1dElbSvAT

jhns
11-09-2011, 11:15 AM
What part don't you understand?

Show me the black and white statement I made. Tell me how your question wasn't doing exactly what you just complained about.

riiiiick
11-09-2011, 11:16 AM
It seems all his passing stats are much better in the second half??? Anyone have those numbers?

jhns
11-09-2011, 11:18 AM
No kidding! Where is the logic of not wanting your QB to run 10 times or more a game plus the knockdowns then add in the sacks to a 16 game season when you can compare him to Orton who isn't a running QB? Come on Maners, where is that logic? Why try to get Tebow to read defenses in a passing situation when we can just let him do the run option play throughout his career? Why work on his accuracy? We got Tebow's legs! Jizz, of course you don't get the logic. Your absolute redeculous :~ohyah!:.

Elway said it wasn't a worry. I guess I am just as ridiculous as Elway.

Orton was injured every season. Of course we should worry more about the healthy guy!

baja
11-09-2011, 11:19 AM
This gets to the question now before us: Will Tim Tebow change the way the pro game is played?

The guy is built like a RB. He's clearly very tough -- can take a lot of punishment.

He might have a shortened career - but you have to wonder.

A QB who can run -- adds another threat level. It's another weapon. With a decent passing game -- and a raft of other playmakers -- like Royal in the slot and Moreno catching screens out of the backfield -- not to mention MacGhee -- Denver's Tebow led offense looks to have the potential to open up the game -- and take pro foooball to another level.

Here's hoping
MHG

He might be a 5 tool player.

baja
11-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Show me the black and white statement I made. Tell me how your question wasn't doing exactly what you just complained about.

Really?

If you need to ask I doubt I can explain it for you.

Does someone else want to try?

bowtown
11-09-2011, 11:23 AM
That's not what Roto-world says:
After trying to shoehorn Tebow into a pro-style offense, the coaching staff finally came around to the idea that he's best utilized as a runner out of the spread used at Florida. The Raiders were caught off guard last week, struggling to adjust on the ground or through the air against the first team to run the read-option substantially in the NFL. Romeo Crennel's Chiefs defense will be better prepared this week, so Tebow will face a stiffer test. He's going to have to prove he can hit outside timing throws for continued success out of the read-option.

Or Yahoo:
John Fox and the Denver Broncos coaching staff had come under fire for allegedly not tailoring their offense to fit quarterback Tim Tebow's(notes) vastly different skill set. But in Sunday's 38-24 victory over the Oakland Raiders, the Broncos did just that, trotting out the read option, and the Raiders had no answer for it, as both Willis McGahee(notes) and Tebow topped 100 yards rushing in the game.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20111107_read_option_spurs_broncos_tebow_past_raid ers

Or the DP:
"He" is Tebow, and after the Broncos tilted their playbook toward his college roots, they went all-in against the Raiders on Sunday. The Broncos broke out their own edition of read option, using Tebow as a front-line ballcarrier or offering the threat of him as a front-line ballcarrier just before he handed the ball to running back Willis McGahee.
(Don't know how the Raiders could have prepared for it if they didn't know it was coming. Were they taping our practices?)

Interesting article, BTW (discussing possible impact of a QB running the offense in the NFL)
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19294314#ixzz1dEdPQ500
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Here's a post game selection of Raider quotes, and none of them mention it:
http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-vs-Broncos-Quote-Sheet/45539891-7759-468f-a37a-cab25054728d

Here's PFT's take:

Sounds like they don't think the Raiders were prepared for it.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/09/willis-mcgahee-has-warmed-up-the-read-option-attack/

BTW, McGahee is a believer now. ;D

To be fair, Seymour talked a lot about it:

The worst part? There was no magic. Defensive tackle Richard Seymour said he was "sick to (his) stomach" because the Raiders studied and practiced against the read-option all week. Then, they let a quarterback who doesn't throw well lead the way as his team ran for 298 yards.

"It's ridiculous," Seymour said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/06/SPMF1LRAQD.DTL#ixzz1dEnTo051



"We knew exactly what they were going to do and we just didn't stop it," Raiders defensive tackle Richard Seymour said. "We knew exactly what was going to happen, and they ran exactly what we thought they were going to run and we didn't get the job done.Ē

http://www.examiner.com/sports-photography-in-oakland/broncos-run-away-with-38-24-win-against-the-raiders


I think those quotes are what people are referring to.

jhns
11-09-2011, 11:23 AM
Really?

If you need to ask I doubt I can explain it for you.

Does someone else want to try?

Too stupid to back up your claim? Go figure!

BroncoMan4ever
11-09-2011, 11:30 AM
i get that he completed 80% of his passes, however you have to take into account, that the team did not attempt a pass from about 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter until it was over.

i like the wins, it is fun to watch. but until he can over the course of an entire game complete 60% of his passes i am going to remain skeptical that he will be the long term guy.

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 11:33 AM
To be fair, Seymour talked a lot about it:

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/06/SPMF1LRAQD.DTL#ixzz1dEnTo051

http://www.examiner.com/sports-photography-in-oakland/broncos-run-away-with-38-24-win-against-the-raiders

I think those quotes are what people are referring to.

Thanks. I didn't find that article on my search. I hope the Chiefs have the same problem in execution that the Raiders had. I still question if any form of a base option offense, where the QB is running the ball so much, can last very long in the NFL. Sooner or later, you run into really good defenses that can execute gap assignments, etc. and you're going to have guys like James Harrison going head hunting. I still believe you win championships from the pocket, until somebody proves that axiom wrong.

Jay3
11-09-2011, 11:35 AM
i get that he completed 80% of his passes, however you have to take into account, that the team did not attempt a pass from about 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter until it was over.

Because McGahee broke a long one, Royal ran a punt back, and so by then the Broncos had a touchdown lead.

In that situation you want to run it -- and they might have passed it if the run hadn't gashed for long gains, and ultimately another touchdown.

That "no passes after mid 3rd quarter" is a deceptive stat, because from that point in time on, they scored every possession, I think, with huge runs.

baja
11-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Too stupid to back up your claim? Go figure!

Ha ha

OK


You see players & coaches as either all good or all bad

Your all bad list

McD

Orton

any poster that has anything positive to say about either of the above.

any poster that has anything bad to say about any of the players listed below.

Your all good list;

Cutler

Marshall

Tebow

jhns
11-09-2011, 11:43 AM
Ha ha

OK


You see players & coaches as either all good or all bad

Your all bad list

McD

Orton

any poster that has anything positive to say about either of the above.

any poster that has anything bad to say about any of the players listed below.

Your all good list;

Cutler

Marshall

Tebow

So you don't have anything from this thread? What a horrible spin.

This isn't even close to true though. I have said just as much bad as good about Tebow. You are the one that tried to claim I shouod think McDaniels was doing good only from the Tebow move. In other words, you are the only one that was making things black and white before you complained about it. This is a very bad troll move.

bendog
11-09-2011, 11:45 AM
god, you two sound married to each other

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 12:49 PM
Compare that to Orton and get back to us and remember he gave us the best chance to win and is a how many year vet. TT has started 6 games.............geezus.........some of you are the thick headed people on the planet.............

Your argument for Tebow going forward is that he is better than Orton? Its like winning the special olympics... They both suck, saying that ones level of sucking is more that the other is like saying your farts smell better than mine. . . It may be true but both smell like S**t

jhns
11-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Your argument for Tebow going forward is that he is better than Orton? Its like winning the special olympics... They both suck, saying that ones level of sucking is more that the other is like saying your farts smell better than mine. . . It may be true but both smell like S**t

Being better than his comprtition is the only argument that needs to be made for Tebow. Talk about future seasons should wait until the offseason. Otherwise, you are just randomly guessing on if he will improve or not.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2011, 12:54 PM
Elway said it wasn't a worry. I guess I am just as ridiculous as Elway.

Orton was injured every season. Of course we should worry more about the healthy guy!

Hey dip****, the "healthy guy" hasnt played a full season yet. In fact, he hasnt played even a half season yet. Elway isnt worried because he will draft a QB and have the insurance if Tebow keeps the starting job. If you are as dumb (and you are) to think that the coaches won't continue to work on Tebow to lesson his running, then you are the idiot most here have you pegged for. It isnt a good formula to continue to get pounded. If so, he better practice slide move to be ok with a few yards less than what he can get if he lowers his shoulder and forges through.

jhns
11-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Hey dip****, the "healthy guy" hasnt played a full season yet. In fact, he hasnt played even a half season yet. Elway isnt worried because he will draft a QB and have the insurance if Tebow keeps the starting job. If you are as dumb (and you are) to think that the coaches won't continue to work on Tebow to lesson his running, then you are the idiot most here have you pegged for. It isnt a good formula to continue to get pounded. If so, he better practice slide move to be ok with a few yards less than what he can get if he lowers his shoulder and forges through.

Hey dip****, he also hasn't missed time from injury.

It makes me laugh when you try claiming others are idiots. Have you ever tried reading your posts?

KO5K
11-09-2011, 01:04 PM
Hey dip****, the "healthy guy" hasnt played a full season yet. In fact, he hasnt played even a half season yet. Elway isnt worried because he will draft a QB and have the insurance if Tebow keeps the starting job. If you are as dumb (and you are) to think that the coaches won't continue to work on Tebow to lesson his running, then you are the idiot most here have you pegged for. It isnt a good formula to continue to get pounded. If so, he better practice slide move to be ok with a few yards less than what he can get if he lowers his shoulder and forges through.

Remember when John Elway said he felt safer outside of the pocket?

Remember when all of Tebow's big hits came from inside the pocket against the Raiders?

No? Didn't think so.

Slightly Soiled
11-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Did I miss something? When did the Broncos say they were switching to a base read option offense?

Could it be that they are using some option ball to keep the offense moving while Tebow gets better at playing in the pocket.

Frankly I would love to see a drive against the Jets with all read option and no huddle. Make those defenders stay on the feild play after play at elevation and do it early. You could wear them out in the 1st qtr.

BleedingOrange
11-09-2011, 01:44 PM
When you look at the first half Tebow did well in the first qrt (3-4 38 yrds & TD with another 7 yrd comp negated by penalty) but was horrid in the 2nd. Then picked right back up in the third. Can someone go through the 2nd qrt and post how many passes were dropped, how many were thrown away, ones where the receiver and Qb weren't on the same page and finally just bad throws?

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 01:51 PM
If the head coach doesn't take three points off the board, we still win without those two plays.

if Tebow could throw the ball he puts 7 on the board and takes advantage of oaklands stupid penalty

jhns
11-09-2011, 01:53 PM
if Tebow could throw the ball he puts 7 on the board and takes advantage of oaklands stupid penalty

Well, good thing he won by two TDs. He makes your if game look retardee.

bowtown
11-09-2011, 01:53 PM
Did I miss something? When did the Broncos say they were switching to a base read option offense?

Could it be that they are using some option ball to keep the offense moving while Tebow gets better at playing in the pocket.

Frankly I would love to see a drive against the Jets with all read option and no huddle. Make those defenders stay on the feild play after play at elevation and do it early. You could wear them out in the 1st qtr.

Wouldn't work. Tebow is also not acclimated yet. That's why he has accuracy issues and poor footwork. Hopefully he will be fully acclimated by year 4 or 5. It takes SEC guys forever; altitude is their achillies heal.

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 01:54 PM
Being better than his comprtition is the only argument that needs to be made for Tebow. Talk about future seasons should wait until the offseason. Otherwise, you are just randomly guessing on if he will improve or not.

Brady Quinn is better than Tebow

jhns
11-09-2011, 01:55 PM
Brady Quinn is better than Tebow

And still on the bench.

bendog
11-09-2011, 02:00 PM
Wouldn't work. Tebow is also not acclimated yet. That's why he has accuracy issues and poor footwork. Hopefully he will be fully acclimated by year 4 or 5. It takes SEC guys forever; altitude is their achillies heal.

altitude?

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
And still on the bench.

Well according to you Tebow has outplayed his competition. Im just pointing out you are wrong and that Brady Quinn is better than Tim Tebow. Apparently they are playing Tebow to prove to people like you he sucks... Its not working they should bench him now and try to win the AFC West with brady quinn.

jhns
11-09-2011, 02:05 PM
Well according to you Tebow has outplayed his competition. Im just pointing out you are wrong and that Brady Quinn is better than Tim Tebow. Apparently they are playing Tebow to prove to people like you he sucks... Its not working they should bench him now and try to win the AFC West with brady quinn.

Poor guy.

BroncoMan4ever
11-09-2011, 02:22 PM
Because McGahee broke a long one, Royal ran a punt back, and so by then the Broncos had a touchdown lead.

In that situation you want to run it -- and they might have passed it if the run hadn't gashed for long gains, and ultimately another touchdown.

That "no passes after mid 3rd quarter" is a deceptive stat, because from that point in time on, they scored every possession, I think, with huge runs.

i agree. but misleading is also saying he completed 80% of his passes. had he gone out in the 2nd half and been 16 of 20 then i would be like wow, he had a great 2nd half throwing the ball, but he went out in the second half and completed 4-5 passes in the 1st half of the 3rd quarter which is still a major improvement for him, but also misleading.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2011, 02:28 PM
Hey dip****, he also hasn't missed time from injury.

It makes me laugh when you try claiming others are idiots. Have you ever tried reading your posts?

Of course there is a chance that he wouldnt be hurt yet, as I stated, he hasnt played even a half season! Plus, the games he has played has been broken up with almost 10 months spread in between. If you cant see that the constant bruising will be getting to his body, then I have no hope for you. There is a better chance he gets beat up or injured because of the way he plays. WTH is wrong with working on his pocket presence and become an all around QB?

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 02:34 PM
Hey dip****, he also hasn't missed time from injury.

It makes me laugh when you try claiming others are idiots. Have you ever tried reading your posts?

So he didnt get injured in the preseason on a goal line touchdown? Odd this article says he did......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/19/tim-tebow-misses-another-practice-preseason-game-in-doubt/

This is also a nice quote from the article.

"Tebow may discover that itís just not realistic for an NFL quarterback to employ the kind of head-on running style that Tebow employed at Florida."

bowtown
11-09-2011, 02:40 PM
altitude?

Yeah, Tebow just can't get used to the elevation for whatever reason. At least that's what MacGruder told me.

jhns
11-09-2011, 02:46 PM
So he didnt get injured in the preseason on a goal line touchdown? Odd this article says he did......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/19/tim-tebow-misses-another-practice-preseason-game-in-doubt/

This is also a nice quote from the article.

"Tebow may discover that itís just not realistic for an NFL quarterback to employ the kind of head-on running style that Tebow employed at Florida."

You clearly have trouble reading.

bendog
11-09-2011, 02:48 PM
Yeah, Tebow just can't get used to the elevation for whatever reason. At least that's what MacGruder told me.

Ah, yes.

jhns
11-09-2011, 02:50 PM
Of course there is a chance that he wouldnt be hurt yet, as I stated, he hasnt played even a half season! Plus, the games he has played has been broken up with almost 10 months spread in between. If you cant see that the constant bruising will be getting to his body, then I have no hope for you. There is a better chance he gets beat up or injured because of the way he plays. WTH is wrong with working on his pocket presence and become an all around QB?

I haven't said he doesn't need to work on throwing. In fact, that is the reason these opinions are so dumb. If he doesn't improve at throwjng from thepocket, he won't be around long enough for his running to tear down his body. Kind of like every other running QB.

Keep claiming that Elway doesn't know about the punishment a QB takes though. It is pretty funny.

bendog
11-09-2011, 02:50 PM
if Tebow could throw the ball he puts 7 on the board and takes advantage of oaklands stupid penalty

But remember, its a conspiraccy and Fox doesn't like Tebow personally, hates his faith and has no faith in his ability to play the postion, so taking the three off the board and giving Tebow another three cracks at it makes perfect sense.

TheReverend
11-09-2011, 02:54 PM
Hey dip****, the "healthy guy" hasnt played a full season yet. In fact, he hasnt played even a half season yet. Elway isnt worried because he will draft a QB and have the insurance if Tebow keeps the starting job. If you are as dumb (and you are) to think that the coaches won't continue to work on Tebow to lesson his running, then you are the idiot most here have you pegged for. It isnt a good formula to continue to get pounded. If so, he better practice slide move to be ok with a few yards less than what he can get if he lowers his shoulder and forges through.

...and you should know.

broncocalijohn
11-09-2011, 03:02 PM
I haven't said he doesn't need to work on throwing. In fact, that is the reason these opinions are so dumb. If he doesn't improve at throwjng from thepocket, he won't be around long enough for his running to tear down his body. Kind of like every other running QB.

Keep claiming that Elway doesn't know about the punishment a QB takes though. It is pretty funny.

Elway also rolled out a ton. I havent seen Tebow do that yet. Good to know that since Elway isnt worried about it, there is no possible way Tebow gets hurt by getting nailed running. Fat lip can be the beginning. Worse can come through and that is what is everybodies worries. Simply stated, if he learns to play pocket QB (hell let him roll out if he can) and when he gets comfortable reading defenses and checking off 1st option, he wont need to run as often therefore limiting the chances he gets injured. Not so hard to figure that out, is it?

Que
11-09-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm sure if you take certain clips of games that ryan leaf played you'll come up with the same conclusion for him as you just did for tebow.

And if you take certain clips of games that Aaron Rodgers played you'll come up that he's the next Ryan Leaf.

But point made - sample size matters.

Fedaykin
11-09-2011, 03:08 PM
Sample size fail.

Slightly Soiled
11-09-2011, 03:27 PM
Sample size fail.

Thats what she said.

oubronco
11-09-2011, 03:40 PM
Of course there is a chance that he wouldnt be hurt yet, as I stated, he hasnt played even a half season! Plus, the games he has played has been broken up with almost 10 months spread in between. If you cant see that the constant bruising will be getting to his body, then I have no hope for you. There is a better chance he gets beat up or injured because of the way he plays. WTH is wrong with working on his pocket presence and become an all around QB?

Because he's revolutionizing the position

broncogary
11-09-2011, 05:06 PM
Yeah, Tebow just can't get used to the elevation for whatever reason. At least that's what MacGruder told me.

So you've been conferencing with MacGruder! :~ohyah!:

BroncoBeavis
11-09-2011, 05:12 PM
Brady Quinn is better than Tebow

Brady Quinn career passer rating - 66.8
Tim Tebow career passer rating - 81.0

Inkana7
11-09-2011, 05:37 PM
Hey dip****, he also hasn't missed time from injury.

It makes me laugh when you try claiming others are idiots. Have you ever tried reading your posts?

He missed a preseason game last year after taking a shot to the ribs.

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 05:54 PM
Brady Quinn career passer rating - 66.8
Tim Tebow career passer rating - 81.0

Brady Quinn born in - Ohio
Tim Tebow born in - Philippines

Oh sorry i just wanted to post a meaningless stat like you did. Give Tebow 13 games he will get that passer rating down some... Wait or should I start whining about how quinn has never been given a fair shake in Denver and say stuff like the coaching staff hates him and wants him to fail or else he would be amazing.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 05:58 PM
That's not what Roto-world says:

It is what Aaron Curry says:

"Yeah, we prepared for it, and I think part of the time we lost our composure as far as reading the same reads he was reading, as far as Tebow was going, and I take a lot of accountability for that."

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-vs-Broncos-Quote-Sheet/45539891-7759-468f-a37a-cab25054728d

There are also similar quotes from Tommy Kelly, Richard Seymour, and Hue Jackson on the same subject...saying that they prepared all week for that play and knew the Broncos would go to it heavily but they couldnt stop it.

But by all means...don't let the facts get in the way.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 06:05 PM
So he didnt get injured in the preseason on a goal line touchdown? Odd this article says he did......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/19/tim-tebow-misses-another-practice-preseason-game-in-doubt/

This is also a nice quote from the article.

"Tebow may discover that itís just not realistic for an NFL quarterback to employ the kind of head-on running style that Tebow employed at Florida."

http://cdn.styleforum.net/4/4a/4ad90b08_Not-sure-if-serious2.jpeg

Jay3
11-09-2011, 06:05 PM
He missed a preseason game last year after taking a shot to the ribs.

Doesn't count. Could've played if needed for a real game.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 06:06 PM
Brady Quinn born in - Ohio
Tim Tebow born in - Philippines

Oh sorry i just wanted to post a meaningless stat like you did. Give Tebow 13 games he will get that passer rating down some... Wait or should I start whining about how quinn has never been given a fair shake in Denver and say stuff like the coaching staff hates him and wants him to fail or else he would be amazing.

http://cdn.styleforum.net/4/4a/4ad90b08_Not-sure-if-serious2.jpeg

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 06:19 PM
http://cdn.styleforum.net/4/4a/4ad90b08_Not-sure-if-serious2.jpeg

so the thought of brady quinn being a reliable Quarterback is just ridiculous but its totally reasonable to think that Tebow is going to become the quarter back of the future for the Broncos? I dont get how people can have such tunnel vision. Tebow is a good guy but why is it someone cant have a negative opinion about his chances as a starter without being ripped apart and told how blind they are.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-09-2011, 06:20 PM
The fact he only threw 5 passes says a lot.

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 06:22 PM
The fact he only threw 5 passes says a lot.

Go throw 5 passes against the Dolphins you loser. Worst team in the league was the dolphins till they slaughtered the Chiefs

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 06:27 PM
so the thought of brady quinn being a reliable Quarterback is just ridiculous but its totally reasonable to think that Tebow is going to become the quarter back of the future for the Broncos? I dont get how people can have such tunnel vision. Tebow is a good guy but why is it someone cant have a negative opinion about his chances as a starter without being ripped apart and told how blind they are.

Because its ridiculously silly.

The guy is in his 6th NFL start, spanning three head coaches and without a proper offseason inbetween.

He's 2-1 this season and 3-3 over the past two...despite all the challenges.

I think the real question is concerning why people are so irrationally hypercritical. They sound like Chiefs and Raiders fans.

BroncoBeavis
11-09-2011, 06:34 PM
Brady Quinn born in - Ohio
Tim Tebow born in - Philippines

Oh sorry i just wanted to post a meaningless stat like you did. Give Tebow 13 games he will get that passer rating down some... Wait or should I start whining about how quinn has never been given a fair shake in Denver and say stuff like the coaching staff hates him and wants him to fail or else he would be amazing.

Yes, because history has shown that the longer a QB plays, the lower his QB Rating goes.... or uh, not.

Turd_Ferguson
11-09-2011, 07:39 PM
Yes, because history has shown that the longer a QB plays, the lower his QB Rating goes.... or uh, not.

What does history show about running quarterbacks that can't throw the ball well?

Bronx33
11-09-2011, 07:52 PM
baby steps

Inkana7
11-09-2011, 08:39 PM
Doesn't count. Could've played if needed for a real game.

Dude the fact remains that he got dinged up doing Tim Tebow things.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 09:24 PM
Dude the fact remains that he got dinged up doing Tim Tebow things.

Peyton Manning developed a career-ending injury by standing in the pocket and letting his melon head destroy cervical vertebrae.

Tom Brady has been injured standing in the pocket like a mannequin.

Players play through nagging injuries all the time. Tebow got rocked in the pocket last week far worse than anything he experienced in the open field.

HAT
11-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Go Tebow!

That being said, small sample size is stupid. McD had a 100% win percentage for over a 3rd of an NFL season.

I'm not going to read all 5 pages but I hope you guys made the OP feel sufficiently stupid for starting this
thread.

In the last 5 minutes, I've taken a **** 100% of the time.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 09:43 PM
In the last 5 minutes, I've taken a **** 100% of the time.

Well, I'm sure that we can extrapolate that out over your entire life and make the inference that you are constantly crapping your pants.

You must have to eat all the time.

Jay3
11-10-2011, 03:42 AM
Go Tebow!

That being said, small sample size is stupid. McD had a 100% win percentage for over a 3rd of an NFL season.

I'm not going to read all 5 pages but I hope you guys made the OP feel sufficiently stupid for starting this
thread.

In the last 5 minutes, I've taken a **** 100% of the time.

You can take as large a sample size as you want, but the average person still has one ball and one breast.

cutthemdown
11-10-2011, 03:52 AM
The fact he only threw 5 passes says a lot.

Just so we know do you want your team to win or lose. We can never tell.

TJ96
11-10-2011, 07:54 AM
Check out this debate question: Tim Tebow vs Cam Newton: Who Wins More Games in 2011 (http://thexlog.com/201111100826/xtra-point-football/nfl/tim-tebow-vs-cam-newton-who-wins-more-games-in-2011/)? I say Newton. Heís a better passer and can run just as effectively as Tebow.

dbfan4life
11-10-2011, 07:58 AM
The biggest change in Tebow's game from the 1st and 2nd half was that the o-line did a much better job protecting him.

bowtown
11-10-2011, 08:16 AM
Check out this debate question: Tim Tebow vs Cam Newton: Who Wins More Games in 2011 (http://thexlog.com/201111100826/xtra-point-football/nfl/tim-tebow-vs-cam-newton-who-wins-more-games-in-2011/)? I say Newton. Heís a better passer and can run just as effectively as Tebow.

Dumbest poll ever.

Inkana7
11-10-2011, 08:52 AM
Peyton Manning developed a career-ending injury by standing in the pocket and letting his melon head destroy cervical vertebrae.

Tom Brady has been injured standing in the pocket like a mannequin.

Players play through nagging injuries all the time. Tebow got rocked in the pocket last week far worse than anything he experienced in the open field.

Correct, QBs get hurt in the pocket. Meaning that taking unnecessary hits trying to run over NFL linebackers probably doesn't increase their career longevity.

Rohirrim
11-10-2011, 09:28 AM
It is what Aaron Curry says:

"Yeah, we prepared for it, and I think part of the time we lost our composure as far as reading the same reads he was reading, as far as Tebow was going, and I take a lot of accountability for that."

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-vs-Broncos-Quote-Sheet/45539891-7759-468f-a37a-cab25054728d

There are also similar quotes from Tommy Kelly, Richard Seymour, and Hue Jackson on the same subject...saying that they prepared all week for that play and knew the Broncos would go to it heavily but they couldnt stop it.

But by all means...don't let the facts get in the way.

People say all kinds of things after the fact to cover up for their embarrassment. Did it look to you like they had practiced for it? Yeah, me neither.

baja
11-10-2011, 09:32 AM
People say all kinds of things after the fact to cover up for their embarrassment. Did it look to you like they had practiced for it? Yeah, me neither.

It would be a 100 times better for us if the did.

jhns
11-10-2011, 09:33 AM
People say all kinds of things after the fact to cover up for their embarrassment. Did it look to you like they had practiced for it? Yeah, me neither.

No one is practicing to stop Rodgers!

Rohirrim
11-10-2011, 09:33 AM
No one is practicing to stop Rodgers!

Sure. It just doesn't do them any good. ;D

enjolras
11-10-2011, 10:04 AM
Go Tebow!

That being said, small sample size is stupid. McD had a 100% win percentage for over a 3rd of an NFL season.

I'm not going to read all 5 pages but I hope you guys made the OP feel sufficiently stupid for starting this
thread.

In the last 5 minutes, I've taken a **** 100% of the time.

It is a small sample, but that wasn't really the point. The point was, in that span of time, Tebow showed that he can throw the ball effectively. I addressed the small sample size in the fricking post.

I never made the claim that Tebow will be able to do that all the time. I never made the claim that he's going to be a gerat passer. I pointed out that in basically a series and a half at least showed that he has the ability to be an NFL passer. Largely in response to a number of threads where certain people are making the case that he is incapable of being an accurate passer for even that short a stretch.

Wether or not he can do that consistently.. I don't know. I hope so. In the first possession of the second half Tebow changed that game with his arm. The running attack only took off in the second half AFTER the Broncos backed up the defense on the back of the passing attack. At that point in the game the Raiders were bringing 8 guys on blitzes... something they never did again after that possession.

At the end of the day, that's the point. You don't get to claim that Tebow has never shown that he CAN be an effective passer, because he's done it...if only for a short stretch.

bowtown
11-10-2011, 10:09 AM
It is a small sample, but that wasn't really the point. The point was, in that span of time, Tebow showed that he can throw the ball effectively. I addressed the small sample size in the fricking post.

I never made the claim that Tebow will be able to do that all the time. I never made the claim that he's going to be a gerat passer. I pointed out that in basically a series and a half at least showed that he has the ability to be an NFL passer. Largely in response to a number of threads where certain people are making the case that he is incapable of being an accurate passer for even that short a stretch.

Wether or not he can do that consistently.. I don't know. I hope so. In the first possession of the second half Tebow changed that game with his arm. The running attack only took off in the second half AFTER the Broncos backed up the defense on the back of the passing attack. At that point in the game the Raiders were bringing 8 guys on blitzes... something they never did again after that possession.

At the end of the day, that's the point. You don't get to claim that Tebow has never shown that he CAN be an effective passer, because he's done it...if only for a short stretch.

The problem is that to be an effective passer in the NFL, you have to be able to do it consistently. That's what sets you apart from everyone else. I just think your criteria for being an effective passer doesn't take into account much what actually defines an effective passer in the NFL.

Shotgun Willie
11-10-2011, 12:02 PM
The problem is that to be an effective passer in the NFL, you have to be able to do it consistently. That's what sets you apart from everyone else. I just think your criteria for being an effective passer doesn't take into account much what actually defines an effective passer in the NFL.

This. Plenty of guys who washed out of the NFL in less than one or two seasons could have easily strung together a 4 for 5 passing performance at some point in that time. It meant nothing.

Jay3
11-10-2011, 12:10 PM
This. Plenty of guys who washed out of the NFL in less than one or two seasons could have easily strung together a 4 for 5 passing performance at some point in that time. It meant nothing.

But people don't say "Tebow can do it, but he can't do it consistently." They say he can't do it at all.

And he can. And he has the kind of personality that if he is capable of doing it, he will get it down to a consistent level of play.

It's mostly the footwork and lower body mechanics anyway.

Jetmeck
11-10-2011, 12:10 PM
This. Plenty of guys who washed out of the NFL in less than one or two seasons could have easily strung together a 4 for 5 passing performance at some point in that time. It meant nothing.

Your point is a double edge sword...............are you saying he can't do it based on six games ? You don't know yet.

epicSocialism4tw
11-10-2011, 12:14 PM
People say all kinds of things after the fact to cover up for their embarrassment. Did it look to you like they had practiced for it? Yeah, me neither.

Yeah, sorry but I'll take the coaches and players words for it. Thanks though.

Shotgun Willie
11-10-2011, 12:16 PM
Your point is a double edge sword...............are you saying he can't do it based on six games ? You don't know yet.

My point? I'm not making any point about Tebow. I'm arguing the value of coming to any conclusion about any player based off of 5 passes.

Jetmeck
11-10-2011, 12:19 PM
My point? I'm not making any point about Tebow. I'm arguing the value of coming to any conclusion about any player based off of 5 passes.

And I'm arguing the LACK of value of making any conclusion based off of 6 starts.................!!!!

He may turn out to be a great passer, we don't know.

Shotgun Willie
11-10-2011, 12:21 PM
But people don't say "Tebow can do it, but he can't do it consistently." They say he can't do it at all.


People? You're generalizing. "Some" people say Tebow will never be a real NFL QB. Some say he can be. Right now, neither is right or wrong because it's too early to come to any real conclusion. Same with any other QB with only a handful of starts. I just have a problem with people coming to any decisive conclusion one way or the other based off of 5 passes. That's just insane to me.

Shotgun Willie
11-10-2011, 12:22 PM
And I'm arguing the LACK of value of making any conclusion based off of 6 starts.................!!!!

He may turn out to be a great passer, we don't know.

I've never said otherwise.

BroncoInferno
11-10-2011, 01:04 PM
People say all kinds of things after the fact to cover up for their embarrassment. Did it look to you like they had practiced for it? Yeah, me neither.

Not sure I agree with your logic. To me, it would be more embarrassing to say, "Yep, we prepared to face that college-style offense and still couldn't stop it" than it would be to say, "Hey, they just caught us off-guard with a gimmick."

Kaylore
11-10-2011, 01:14 PM
Not sure I agree with your logic. To me, it would be more embarrassing to say, "Yep, we prepared to face that college-style offense and still couldn't stop it" than it would be to say, "Hey, they just caught us off-guard with a gimmick."

Yeah I would think saying you knew and still sucked would be worse. Saying you didn't know it was coming passes blame to the staff and makes it look like you just were surprised. Knowing what they are doing and still failing to stop it means the other team is better.

BroncoInferno
11-10-2011, 01:23 PM
Yeah I would think saying you knew and still sucked would be worse. Saying you didn't know it was coming passes blame to the staff and makes it look like you just were surprised. Knowing what they are doing and still failing to stop it means the other team is better.

Yep. Obviously, I was happy with the win Sunday, but when I started thinking ahead to the Chiefs, my initial thought was, "well, we won't be able to run that kind of offense again." Those comments from the various Raiders gives me a little extra hope that we may have tapped into something that can work as more than a gimmick. Like Todd Haley said, it's like having to practice for the wildcat, except the quarterback is actually a danger to throw it. Even Tebow at a 48% completion rate is still a far more dangerous passer than Ronnie Brown ;D Will be interesting to see how it plays out..

TonyR
11-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Those comments from the various Raiders gives me a little extra hope that we may have tapped into something that can work as more than a gimmick.

Agree, although some analysts have suggested that the Raiders were extremely undisciplined. I'd expect that the Chiefs have probably learned a lot of lessons from the Raiders' mistakes. Also agree that it will be extremely interesting to see if we can have success with the zone read again this week.

redrocket
11-11-2011, 02:32 PM
not bad, the bow got game

errand
11-11-2011, 03:41 PM
My point? I'm not making any point about Tebow. I'm arguing the value of coming to any conclusion about any player based off of 5 passes.

Definitely a conundrum...when Tebow has a good game, those that question him scream " it's only been 6 starts....give me a break".

When Tebow sucks ass..his nuthugging legion of maniacs scream "It's only his 6th start, give him a break"

Now we got people selecting 5 pass attempts....crowing the greatness of Tim....well wasn't there a stretch in Dolphins game where he missed on like 8-9 consecutive attempts?

Jetmeck
11-11-2011, 03:57 PM
The facts are the guy won in college and with a pretty bad team he has a better winning percentage than most first year starting QBs in this leaque
and better than the verteran Orton.

I ve seen some pathetic passes and some beautiful ones . He can do it.

Is there much common sense to base your presumptions on that the guy won't improve ? Most people improve with practice and does anybody know anyone you think will work harder ?

Armchair Bronco
11-11-2011, 04:06 PM
What are the chances that Tebow's completion percentage over an entire game would be even higher had the coaches (both McStalin and Fox) not been messing around with Tebow's mechanics?

peacepipe
11-11-2011, 04:19 PM
What are the chances that Tebow's completion percentage over an entire game would be even higher had the coaches (both McStalin and Fox) not been messing around with Tebow's mechanics?it would've been lower.

errand
11-11-2011, 04:22 PM
Just curious...how many QB's have come outta college playing the spread, have actually did well in the NFL. not trying to start ****...just wanna know.

peacepipe
11-11-2011, 04:23 PM
The facts are the guy won in college and with a pretty bad team he has a better winning percentage than most first year starting QBs in this leaque
and better than the verteran Orton.

I ve seen some pathetic passes and some beautiful ones . He can do it.

Is there much common sense to base your presumptions on that the guy won't improve ? Most people improve with practice and does anybody know anyone you think will work harder ?
JC,you're a tebownite. He had a pretty bad team in college?!!!

Gort
11-11-2011, 04:40 PM
Just curious...how many QB's have come outta college playing the spread, have actually did well in the NFL. not trying to start ****...just wanna know.

grammar nazi will not be impressed.

baja
11-11-2011, 04:44 PM
Look stop all this already.....


Ask yourselves this simple question;

Who would you rather watch

1. A Orton lead team?

2. A Tebow lead team?

Jay3
11-11-2011, 04:59 PM
Just curious...how many QB's have come outta college playing the spread, have actually did well in the NFL. not trying to start ****...just wanna know.

It depends on whether you count the following as doing well --

Joe Flacco
Cam Newton
Sam Bradford
Andy Dalton
Alex Smith
Kyle Orton
Colt McCoy
Vince Young
Blaine Gabbert? (? because he definitely sucks)

CEH
11-11-2011, 05:51 PM
Let's continue the stat game

Among quarterbacks who have thrown at least 45 passes 11 or more yards downfield, Tebow is the only quarterback who has completed fewer than 30 percent of those throws. He is completing 27 percent of those passes.

Good thing he has a chance to improve this week.

errand
11-11-2011, 05:53 PM
It depends on whether you count the following as doing well --

Joe Flacco - yes
Cam Newton - yes
Sam Bradford - yes to a point
Andy Dalton - yes
Alex Smith - yes, but is 7 years too long to wait?
Kyle Orton - yes until this year
Colt McCoy - nope
Vince Young - no, but had his moments
Blaine Gabbert? (? because he definitely sucks) - nope

in bold...but I've noticed that none of them save for Flacco, Young, and Orton in rookie year led team to playoffs...

barryr
11-11-2011, 09:06 PM
People need to keep in mind that Eli Manning's stats his first 5 games were far worse than what Tebow's numbers have been and Manning improved and got better. It is possible Tebow could get better too, though I know hard for those that want him to fail to admit.

Jay3
11-11-2011, 09:14 PM
in bold...but I've noticed that none of them save for Flacco, Young, and Orton in rookie year led team to playoffs...

It used to be considered unheard to start as a rookie, much less have playoff success.

Orton was a special case. Flacco was an eye-opener for people.

I don't really think "takes team to playoffs as a starter rookie" is a big enough sample to judge anything at all.