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View Full Version : Denver Now Has Top 5 Rushing Attack


epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 12:11 PM
...Denver is 2nd in yards per carry, 5th in yards per game

YPG
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame

YPA
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt

Smiling Assassin27
11-08-2011, 12:22 PM
Step 1--a top level running game: check

Step 2--a top level run-stopping defense: on deck

fontaine
11-08-2011, 12:23 PM
How sweet it is.

The one man wrecking job McDaniels did in dismantling a legacy of running the football was one of my lowest points as a fan of this team.

Thank you Willis McGahee, thank you John Fox, and thank you John Elway.

And that too with the youngest OL in the league that can only get better. Don't look now but KC are up next and Beadles had two dominating performances (his best of the season) against KC last year.

Bring the pain!!!

underrated29
11-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Flame away, but we should release the knowshon against the chiefs. He seems to run through them like bad mexican food.

Smiling Assassin27
11-08-2011, 12:26 PM
Flame away, but we should release the knowshon against the chiefs. He seems to run through them like bad mexican food.

Get Clinton Portis a jersey, he tends to slice thru the Chefs like butter, as well!

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 12:43 PM
How sweet it is.

The one man wrecking job McDaniels did in dismantling a legacy of running the football was one of my lowest points as a fan of this team.

Thank you Willis McGahee, thank you John Fox, and thank you John Elway.

And that too with the youngest OL in the league that can only get better. Don't look now but KC are up next and Beadles had two dominating performances (his best of the season) against KC last year.

Bring the pain!!!

Don't forget Tebow, who is a critical aspect of the rushing attack.

Orton Era (4 games):
86.8 total team yards per game rushing
McGahee 65 ypg

Tebow Era (4 games including SD game):
208 total team yards per game rushing
McGahee 121.3 ypg
Tebow 69.3 ypg

-Tebow is averaging more yards rushing per game rushing than McGahee was playing with Orton.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 12:47 PM
FYI, the Tebow-McGahee rushing game, averaging 208 ypg, would be first in the NFL by 35 ypg! Philadelphia (who also has a rushing QB) averages 172.3 ypg.

Extrapolating that out over 8 games would put the Broncos 1st in YPG and YPA by significant margins.

The Broncos would have 1664 total yards rushing right now with Houston being #2 at 1396 total yards. A difference of 268 yards.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 12:50 PM
This is what Jon Gruden was talking about when he envisioned Tebow as "concrete cyanide".

gyldenlove
11-08-2011, 01:01 PM
That is what we needed right, improve the D and the run game and success will follow?

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 01:03 PM
That is what we needed right, improve the D and the run game and success will follow?

Our run defense is middle-of-the-pack (15th I think).

We just need a couple of real DT's and a real MLB added to the rotation, and we're looking at a top 10 run defense.

The pass defense on the other hand...that's a problem.

Kaylore
11-08-2011, 01:13 PM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 01:23 PM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.

That's not quite fair though.

The Orton-Moreno attack was in its toddling period.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Does anyone have the split NFL rushing stats beginning from when Tebow took over in the SD game?

I'd venture to say that 208 ypg is the #1 rushing attack in the league.

Kaylore
11-08-2011, 01:33 PM
That's not quite fair though.

The Orton-Moreno attack was in its toddling period.

And there it has remained....

Jay3
11-08-2011, 01:34 PM
"The Orton-Moreno attack" is the saddest phrase I've ever heard.

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 01:40 PM
Our run defense is middle-of-the-pack (15th I think).

We just need a couple of real DT's and a real MLB added to the rotation, and we're looking at a top 10 run defense.

The pass defense on the other hand...that's a problem.

agreed. now that the running game is back in Denver, Tebow just needs to work on better completing passes. if Tebow can up his passing percentage 10-15 points he could be one of if not the most dangerous QB in the league. right now his completion percentage hovers right around 48% which no matter how good a runner you are, is not going to cut it in this league. if he can raise his completion percentage to high 50 to low 60% he would be an absolute beast. and it really shouldn't be that hard. there are at least 5 throws a game where he misses a wide open receiver. tighten up those throws and we are looking at a pass/run threat that can complete better than 60% of his passes, thus preventing defenses from stacking the box on him.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 01:52 PM
agreed. now that the running game is back in Denver, Tebow just needs to work on better completing passes. if Tebow can up his passing percentage 10-15 points he could be one of if not the most dangerous QB in the league. right now his completion percentage hovers right around 48% which no matter how good a runner you are, is not going to cut it in this league. if he can raise his completion percentage to high 50 to low 60% he would be an absolute beast. and it really shouldn't be that hard. there are at least 5 throws a game where he misses a wide open receiver. tighten up those throws and we are looking at a pass/run threat that can complete better than 60% of his passes, thus preventing defenses from stacking the box on him.

Tebow is getting better and better. Him "tightening up his throws" has happened a little already. The idea that getting game experience would iron out some of those problems is already proving to be true, just at a small degree. The progress is there...slow and steady.

I think that by this time next season that Tebow will be throwing above 55%, and if he's hitting at that rate and running for 70 yards/game, the Broncos will win the division and make the playoffs.

ZONA
11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
I think at this moment, Fox needs to call more bootlegs. Tebow showed last game he is accurate on the run and throws with good speed. I think moving him out of the pocket to either side will help stop blitzing because if he rolls to the opposite side of the blitz, probably not going to sack him. You also force him to make a passing decision faster and should prevent him from taking so many sacks and taking hits. It will keep those safeties honest also. They can put them up in the box if they want but it will hold them back from blitzing them so much if there's a back or TE cutting back on a bootleg.

It's looking better - still a long ways to go but 2 wins in 3 games is moving in the right direction.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-08-2011, 01:56 PM
I wonder if having a dynamic football player at the quarterback position who requires defensive accountability has anything to do with the improved running game.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:01 PM
And there it has remained....

...and today it toddles on the bench.

Kaylore
11-08-2011, 02:02 PM
I wonder if having a dynamic football player at the quarterback position who requires defensive accountability has anything to do with the improved running game.

I know you're being somewhat sarcastic, but the answer is some. The ends playing contain and having to leave a guy to spy affects some things. However most defenses have been stacking the line daring Tebow to beat them with his arm. So it depends on how you look at it.

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Tebow is getting better and better. Him "tightening up his throws" has happened a little already. The idea that getting game experience would iron out some of those problems is already proving to be true, just at a small degree. The progress is there...slow and steady.

I think that by this time next season that Tebow will be throwing above 55%, and if he's hitting at that rate and running for 70 yards/game, the Broncos will win the division and make the playoffs.

i agree that time will help in the completion percentage. my one concern is, will Elway and staff want to take another ride on the Tebow Train if he fails to complete over 50% of his passes this season.

i am sure that with a full training camp as the number 1, getting the lion's share of the reps that his numbers would drastically improve, but if he fails to throw for over 50% this season, would he be afforded that opportunity next season?

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:06 PM
I know you're being somewhat sarcastic, but the answer is some. The ends playing contain and having to leave a guy to spy affects some things. However most defenses have been stacking the line daring Tebow to beat them with his arm. So it depends on how you look at it.

Well, considering that the Broncos' rushing attack is averaging 113.2 ypg more with Tebow in there, including McGahee averaging twice the rushing yards with Tebow he was with Orton, its pretty much a done deal that the rushing offense is significantly more improved with Tebow in there as a dual threat.

Heck, Tebow is averaging 70 yards per game on his own. McGahee's improvement from 65 ypg to 121 ypg is staggering.

lonestar
11-08-2011, 02:19 PM
Our run defense is middle-of-the-pack (15th I think).

We just need a couple of real DT's and a real MLB added to the rotation, and we're looking at a top 10 run defense.

The pass defense on the other hand...that's a problem.
Unless Uour looking for a Lewis type MLB and willing to spend a top two pick on him I suspect that we already have him on the squad IF they would spend a couple of day one picks at DT lots of other folks around him would be just that much better.

Verging in being just a little less than Lewis is. Even Lewis would not be himself without some stellar DL play.

I'd love to see Mays with two more bunkley types ao we could get some great rotations going with Thomas in the mix.

Front seven would be damned good and therefore the back four would be better, not having to worry abiut 7-10 second plays. And have to cover the runs a thing of the past.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 02:20 PM
I know you're being somewhat sarcastic, but the answer is some. The ends playing contain and having to leave a guy to spy affects some things. However most defenses have been stacking the line daring Tebow to beat them with his arm. So it depends on how you look at it.

They're only stacking the line because they're blitzing... not putting eight or nine in the box. Our running game hasn't been remotely stopped since he's taken over as QB. We had almost 200 yards on the ground and a crazy ypa when McGahee was even out and we know how good Moreno and Ball are :)

lonestar
11-08-2011, 02:24 PM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.

Yes did but do you really believe that he envisioned Tebow as part of it?

No need to reply as we all know that answer.

lonestar
11-08-2011, 02:33 PM
agreed. now that the running game is back in Denver, Tebow just needs to work on better completing passes. if Tebow can up his passing percentage 10-15 points he could be one of if not the most dangerous QB in the league. right now his completion percentage hovers right around 48% which no matter how good a runner you are, is not going to cut it in this league. if he can raise his completion percentage to high 50 to low 60% he would be an absolute beast. and it really shouldn't be that hard. there are at least 5 throws a game where he misses a wide open receiver. tighten up those throws and we are looking at a pass/run threat that can complete better than 60% of his passes, thus preventing defenses from stacking the box on him.I'm just guessing here but if he is throwing a TD every 8-10 completions he is going get a ride on he 48%.

I think we all know that he will get better as he has the O down lat and had time to get in sync with his receiving corp.

WhIle I do not know exactly. That 10% improvement would be gold if the revievers sis not srop the balls that they have so far.
About 10_12% are stinker balls which frankly all
Most all QBs throw from time to time.

And frankly since we do not know the actual plays that were called some of those might just well be the wrong route being run.

CEH
11-08-2011, 02:55 PM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.

If Fox and Allen actually deliver a defense that gets better as the season goes on I'll be jazed about next season no matter who the QB is. Be nice to play some defense after Thanksgiving

lonestar
11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
If Fox and Allen actually deliver a defense that gets better as the season goes on I'll be jazed about next season no matter who the QB is. Be nice to play some defense after Thanksgiving

Let's hope they play defense on thanksgiving.

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm just guessing here but if he is throwing a TD every 8-10 completions he is going get a ride on he 48%.

I think we all know that he will get better as he has the O down lat and had time to get in sync with his receiving corp.

WhIle I do not know exactly. That 10% improvement would be gold if the revievers sis not srop the balls that they have so far.
About 10_12% are stinker balls which frankly all
Most all QBs throw from time to time.

And frankly since we do not know the actual plays that were called some of those might just well be the wrong route being run.

figure he has had probably 3 drops a game from his receivers this season which would move his completion percentage to probably right about 50% if they were caught. but the thing that still troubles me are the bad throws. all QBs occasionally toss the WTF was that ball, but Tebow tends to throw several every sunday. get those 5-6 awkward throws on target and Tim is completing close to 60% of his passes.

snowspot66
11-08-2011, 04:07 PM
figure he has had probably 3 drops a game from his receivers this season which would move his completion percentage to probably right about 50% if they were caught. but the thing that still troubles me are the bad throws. all QBs occasionally toss the WTF was that ball, but Tebow tends to throw several every sunday. get those 5-6 awkward throws on target and Tim is completing close to 60% of his passes.

We were down to 2-3 last week. Still had a couple that should have been caught. Things seem to be improving. The difference between 50 and 55% is just 1.5 passes per game on average. It can be done.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-08-2011, 04:13 PM
This won't last with Tebow as your QB. Not enough threat in the passing game.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 04:15 PM
This won't last with Tebow as your QB. Not enough threat in the passing game.

Your team is about to get waxed like Dirk waxed LeBron.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-08-2011, 04:16 PM
Your team is about to get waxed like Dirk waxed LeBron.

:rofl:

b****, please.

Romeo Crennel makes mincemeat of QBs like Tebow.

That spread option crap doesn't work against the 3-4 and the Chiefs' strength on defense is their run D.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 04:22 PM
:rofl:

b****, please.

Romeo Crennel makes mincemeat of QBs like Tebow.

That spread option crap doesn't work against the 3-4 and the Chiefs' strength on defense is their run D.

Glen Dorsey:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1061/motivator2656895st1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/motivator2656895st1.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-08-2011, 04:29 PM
This won't last with Tebow as your QB. Not enough threat in the passing game.

so says the guy whos team lost badly against the phins 31-3 ??
the winless dolphins ??
the chefs lost to the dolphins the now 1-7 dolphins
you lost to the once 0-7 dolphins
your chefs gave the dolphins their first win
:rofl:

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-08-2011, 04:31 PM
THE CHIEFS LOST TO THE 0-7 DOLPHINS NUFF SAID
AND IT WASN'T CLOSE

errand
11-08-2011, 04:42 PM
FYI, the Tebow-McGahee rushing game, averaging 208 ypg, would be first in the NFL by 35 ypg! Philadelphia (who also has a rushing QB) averages 172.3 ypg.

Extrapolating that out over 8 games would put the Broncos 1st in YPG and YPA by significant margins.

The Broncos would have 1664 total yards rushing right now with Houston being #2 at 1396 total yards. A difference of 268 yards.

...and if your aunt had a penis, she'd be your uncle.

Really?

So I guess if the Jets would let LT throw the ball more they'd score more since he's like 8 of 12 (66.7%) with 7 TD's 0 int's 11.9 ypa and a career 146.9passer...and of course he's a hell of a runner as well.

strafen
11-08-2011, 04:42 PM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.Last game against the raiders definitely padded our running stats.
It was refreshing and encouraging, but I'd like to see more before we can start talking a legit top rushing offensive team in the NFL.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for us to kick ass every which way we can do it, but you and everybody else shoud know that the rushing numbers against the raiders definitely boosted our standing...

Let's hope it continues, for sure!

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 04:56 PM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.

but are you willing to give TEBOW some credit ? I thought not ....

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 04:59 PM
This won't last with Tebow as your QB. Not enough threat in the passing game.

Oh no, there's no way he could improve................like he has been doing. Your team is next up Chubs

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 08:05 PM
...and if your aunt had a penis, she'd be your uncle.

Really?

So I guess if the Jets would let LT throw the ball more they'd score more since he's like 8 of 12 (66.7%) with 7 TD's 0 int's 11.9 ypa and a career 146.9passer...and of course he's a hell of a runner as well.

Since Tebow took over as QB for the Broncos, the Broncos have the best rushing attack in the NFL.

That's just reality.

mwill07
11-08-2011, 08:35 PM
Does anyone seriously think McGahee does what he did with Orton as the starter?

As a reminder - here's our rushing attack vs this the same oakland team w/ Orton at the helm:

Orton: 1-13
Moreno: 8-22
McGahee: 4-3

and that's it. Tebow makes this rushing attack work. There can be no doubt.

Pontius Pirate
11-08-2011, 08:41 PM
Step 1--a top level running game: check

Step 2--a top level run-stopping defense: on deck

Step 3 - dump Moreno and pick up a bulldozing back

Mogulseeker
11-08-2011, 08:46 PM
Get Clinton Portis a jersey, he tends to slice thru the Chefs like butter, as well!

^ :rofl: have you ever seen butter try to slice through something? I don't think it 'slices' very well.

Of course, if you're referring to the Chiefs as butter (I'm assuming Moreno would be a hot knife), you need to include the indirect object pronoun "he slices through them like they're butter."

Otherwise this statement does not make any sense.

Pontius Pirate
11-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Since Tebow took over as QB for the Broncos, the Broncos have the best rushing attack in the NFL.

That's just reality.

To be fair, two of those four games were against two of the bottom-5 run defenses in the league.

Steve Sewell
11-08-2011, 08:56 PM
Glad to see this.

Running the football is what wins games for the Denver Broncos, especially at home. You pound the crap out of a defense for 3 quarters at altitude and they won't have any fight left in them by the end of the game.

One of Elway's stated goals was to get back to winning most of their home games. The reason for that tradition (IMO) was because of the commitment to a physical running game, an opportunistic defense, and a playmaker behind center. I think that Tebow is a playmaker, and if only he could polish up the passing game a little more, the Broncos are headed in the right direction on the other fronts.

Broncobiv
11-08-2011, 09:03 PM
^ :rofl: have you ever seen butter try to slice through something? I don't think it 'slices' very well.

Of course, if you're referring to the Chiefs as butter (I'm assuming Moreno would be a hot knife), you need to include the indirect object pronoun "he slices through them like they're butter."

Otherwise this statement does not make any sense.

WOW...taking Internet grammar Nazi to a whole new level! lol

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 09:10 PM
To be fair, two of those four games were against two of the bottom-5 run defenses in the league.

Well, thats where they end up when the Broncos put 300 yards on their butts.

extralife
11-08-2011, 09:27 PM
Flame away, but we should release the knowshon against the chiefs. He seems to run through them like bad mexican food.

there's only one way "release" and "Knowshon" should ever be in the same sentence, and this ain't it.

MacGruder
11-08-2011, 10:44 PM
"The Orton-Moreno attack" is the saddest phrase I've ever heard.

I think Orton/Lloyd is actually worse...

But the best way to describe them is biggest fool's gold tandem. Maybe the softest duo in NFL history.

In their world they were a match made in heaven though. haha

Though.. maybe the problem is that they were too much alike. Because I think Tebow and Lloyd could have been a great tandem. But Lloyd was too soft to see it so for that reason it could never work.

MacGruder
11-08-2011, 10:48 PM
This won't last with Tebow as your QB. Not enough threat in the passing game.

You really think the Broncos would be able to rush like they do if Tebow couldn't pass?

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 11:20 PM
We were down to 2-3 last week. Still had a couple that should have been caught. Things seem to be improving. The difference between 50 and 55% is just 1.5 passes per game on average. It can be done.

i agree completely. figure on average a QB will throw the ball right around 30 times a game on average. meaning to be a 60% passer Tebow needs to average 18 completions out of every 30 passes thrown.

right now Tebow has thrown 87 passes in his 3 start and completed just 41 for an Completion percentage of 47.3%

this figures to Tim throwing on average 29 times a game, so he needs 17-18 completions a game to average a 60% completion percentage. right now he is averaging about 13.6 completions a game. this means that to be a decent passer he needs to make about 5 more completions a game that he currently is not

now 5 more pass completions on average a game out of the same average number of throws does not typically seem that huge of a difference, but when you consider that means he needs to add on about 37% more completions to his weekly average of 13.6 to make it to a 60% completion percentage. that is a huge jump to make.

MacGruder
11-09-2011, 12:05 AM
I think people are really over simplifying things by just looking at completion percentage.

YAC and YPA are a huge part of the equation. Tebow is usually passing down field.. but his numbers are really hurt because some of the plays are screens/shovel passes.

All I know is that if Tebow wasn't unique then anyone could do what he did in college by simply putting a runner in there. Tebow isn't even considered a good runner by runners standards.

Same in the NFL.. if people could be as successful just running the wildcat or read option with a runningback then they would do it.

Doesn't add up at all.. what makes sense is that Tebow is very very unique.. and being just a runner doesn't cover it.

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 12:44 AM
Fox has delivered the goods on promising a dynamic rushing attack. You can see the yards per attempt and also we finally snapped a streak of games without a 50+ yard run.

FWIW, at this point last season we were last in rushing offense.

Funny because most of us old timers where thinking coaching staff trying tons of different looks trying to find stuff that works. Meanwhile the Mane is saying Fox and McCoy idiots, worst play calling in the NFL. Meanwhile I have seen a lot of different stuff. You could say wow an offense that doesn't know what it wants to be yet. That I will go along with.

But when you switch your RT over to the left side, going big, then bust a 60 yrd run, that to me isn't not trying to be creative. That is a coaching staff willing to try anything that might work to get this stuff going.

Also when we signed Fells I was on here saying how people would love this guy. Just solid along the LOS and a pretty good athlete. He might be playing the best of any FA TE.

We probably won't win west this yr, but next yr I bet we can. We just need to hit one more stud like Miller in the draft to add to the front 7 and some corner help on defense IMO. Maybe 2 more good players for the front 7, MLB and a DT or huge DE

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 12:45 AM
I think people are really over simplifying things by just looking at completion percentage.

YAC and YPA are a huge part of the equation. Tebow is usually passing down field.. but his numbers are really hurt because some of the plays are screens/shovel passes.

All I know is that if Tebow wasn't unique then anyone could do what he did in college by simply putting a runner in there. Tebow isn't even considered a good runner by runners standards.

Same in the NFL.. if people could be as successful just running the wildcat or read option with a runningback then they would do it.

Doesn't add up at all.. what makes sense is that Tebow is very very unique.. and being just a runner doesn't cover it.

His comp % should be higher is he is doing lots of screen and shovels, which are high % plays. He needs to complete at a higher %, even Tebow knows that.

Sometimes his passes are wobbly, that is a concern because a wobbly ball travels slower and not as far.

MacGruder
11-09-2011, 07:39 AM
His comp % should be higher is he is doing lots of screen and shovels, which are high % plays. He needs to complete at a higher %, even Tebow knows that.

Sometimes his passes are wobbly, that is a concern because a wobbly ball travels slower and not as far.

Actually not even those screens are high percentage because he is seeing so much pressure.

Why is he seeing pressure? Because he has no experience and has been thrown into the fire with very little prep.

The defenses are playing him perfectly.. and Tebow's own team is not doing him any favors.

They are trying to force him to be a pocket passer when teams know it and are taking full advantage of it. It's as if Tebow has to play against his own coaches and the opposing coaches. They helped a tiny bit this last game but it's still NO WHERE near where it should be.

It really does seem like subtle sabotage but it's done in a way that they can justify it "he has to be a pocket passer to succeed in the NFL long term"

Jay3
11-09-2011, 07:44 AM
I know you're being somewhat sarcastic, but the answer is some. The ends playing contain and having to leave a guy to spy affects some things. However most defenses have been stacking the line daring Tebow to beat them with his arm. So it depends on how you look at it.

This back-and-forth captures one of the main components of Tebow's success -- he's just good enough at a number of things to really throw off the math in a lot of traditional approaches, and just good enough to stay in a constant cycle of punishing defenses for how they adjust.

One key fact that people forget about Tebow (and comparing him to Cam, Bradford, etc.) is that he was wrecking ball through the SEC for 4 years. That's unusual in this day and age, to have that much film out there, and continue to beat people. It's because there's not an element of his game that can be dismissed outright.

So long, busted runs tend to happen more. Open receivers, etc. There's all kinds of stuff going on because teams don't just go out and say "we're running our base defense against this guy."

I think on a subconscious level it's why people are interested to watch (fans and otherwise). Something about the game of football seems more interesting when Tebow causes that action/reaction dynamic to shake up all the normal rules.

MacGruder
11-09-2011, 08:09 AM
I think on a subconscious level it's why people are interested to watch (fans and otherwise). Something about the game of football seems more interesting when Tebow causes that action/reaction dynamic to shake up all the normal rules.

On ESPN2s First Take they were saying that Vince Young was similar to Tebow because they both won with bad stats.

I have said for a long time that they both have so much talent in reserve that they can be ultra conservative. This is a big reason I think Tebow is so undervalued. He is so picky about when he throws the ball because he knows he has the talent to make things happen when he wants - eventually. He's letting the game come to him to a fault.. and because he is young it takes longer than he anticipates.

But look at the Chargers game and the Dolphins game,,, when he decides to get aggressive and is allowed to play his style you can see how he can play.

So basically when he chooses to take chances and throw the ball you can see how good he is. Because he doesn't do that a lot, people think he can't pass.

Running is a part of that too. He can run and dominate at will which allows hi to take control of games when he wants. This is all the talent in reserve that can be metered out.

Another thing about having so much talent is that is makes it confusing what you want to do.. too many options to choose from.

strafen
11-09-2011, 08:12 AM
This back-and-forth captures one of the main components of Tebow's success -- he's just good enough at a number of things to really throw off the math in a lot of traditional approaches, and just good enough to stay in a constant cycle of punishing defenses for how they adjust.

One key fact that people forget about Tebow (and comparing him to Cam, Bradford, etc.) is that he was wrecking ball through the SEC for 4 years. That's unusual in this day and age, to have that much film out there, and continue to beat people. It's because there's not an element of his game that can be dismissed outright.

So long, busted runs tend to happen more. Open receivers, etc. There's all kinds of stuff going on because teams don't just go out and say "we're running our base defense against this guy."

I think on a subconscious level it's why people are interested to watch (fans and otherwise). Something about the game of football seems more interesting when Tebow causes that action/reaction dynamic to shake up all the normal rules.

Yeah, I agree with you. Defensive coordinators will have their hands full preparing for Tebow.
Good luck with that. I don't know how can you defend improvisation.
Tebow can make things happen. You'll never know what he'd do next.
That's what I like about the guy.
I'm confident his passing game will also improve as he goes.
He's determined to do that, and I'm not going to bet against his drive to succeed...

55CrushEm
11-09-2011, 08:20 AM
agreed. now that the running game is back in Denver, Tebow just needs to work on better completing passes. if Tebow can up his passing percentage 10-15 points he could be one of if not the most dangerous QB in the league. right now his completion percentage hovers right around 48% which no matter how good a runner you are, is not going to cut it in this league. if he can raise his completion percentage to high 50 to low 60% he would be an absolute beast. and it really shouldn't be that hard. there are at least 5 throws a game where he misses a wide open receiver. tighten up those throws and we are looking at a pass/run threat that can complete better than 60% of his passes, thus preventing defenses from stacking the box on him.

Totally agree. However, I question whether it even needs to get to be that much above 60%.

Elways CAREER completion % was 56.9%.....and in 1997 (our 1st Superbowl year) it was less than that at 55.8%. So I don't necessarily buy into the notion that Tebow has to be above 60% for him and the Broncos to be successful. Nor do I think he has to get it up that far for him to be "feared" as a QB. Again, look at Elway.....and he was feared throughout his career.

Oh, as long as we're on QB stats.....Elway's career QB rating was merely 79.9. Tebow's is currently 81.0.....almost the exact same.

Like it or not.....and nobody is saying TT is JE, nor should they....but there are alot of SIMILARITIES between them.

MacGruder
11-09-2011, 08:28 AM
Like it or not.....and nobody is saying TT is JE, nor should they....but there are alot of SIMILARITIES between them.

The way I like to put it is that he may be this eras Elway/Steve Young/Brett Favre.

I think the physical requirements are at a different level in this era and people think I am crazy but I think pure pocket passers are less effective in this era UNLESS you happen to be on the best - most complete - team in the NFL.

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 09:20 AM
They should have used this read option as a change of pace when Orton was stinking earlier in the yr.

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 09:21 AM
The way I like to put it is that he may be this eras Elway/Steve Young/Brett Favre.

I think the physical requirements are at a different level in this era and people think I am crazy but I think pure pocket passers are less effective in this era UNLESS you happen to be on the best - most complete - team in the NFL.

That is a bold statement MacGruder! I was just hoping he could be the next secretariat.

LaneLosh2
11-09-2011, 03:56 PM
Mcgahee is finally getting the carries he deserves in the last couple years! Moreno is practically invisible