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Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Thoughts?

He's about to have his ass handed to him.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 09:53 AM
He should have retired ten years ago. Now, he goes out in disgrace.

crowebomber
11-08-2011, 09:53 AM
He should. When you know about someone on your staff molesting a 10 year old boy in the locker room, you call the police. You don't hand it off to administration to handle it internally.

bfoflcommish
11-08-2011, 09:54 AM
i have less than zero respect for anyone who stood by and did NOTHING to help anyone, much less children who are being raped. f Jopa, and his now tarnished legacy

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:55 AM
Well he hasn't really been coaching. But to me this isn't about coaching or football, but about our duty to each other and he failed those kids along with others in the faculty. Disgrace is the right word. He'll be allowed to retire, but he's basically been fired.
All sorts of fun lawsuits are going to come out of this one, because any person ever been fired for cause at that University has a case of discrimination

schaaf
11-08-2011, 09:56 AM
He should. When you know about someone on your staff molesting a 10 year old boy in the locker room, you call the police. You don't hand it off to administration to handle it internally.

The guy was just trying to get it in ???



Kidding... **** these guys, and all child molesters

alkemical
11-08-2011, 09:57 AM
Well he hasn't really been coaching. But to me this isn't about coaching or football, but about our duty to each other and he failed those kids along with others in the faculty. Disgrace is the right word. He'll be allowed to retire, but he's basically been fired.
All sorts of fun lawsuits are going to come out of this one, because any person ever been fired for cause at that University has a case of discrimination

Agreed.

He's done from what i'm hearing out my way.

That One Guy
11-08-2011, 09:59 AM
Good to see. It's beyond naive to think it's ok to just tell your superiors and think that's enough.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Good to see. It's beyond naive to think it's ok to just tell your superiors and think that's enough.

Legally speaking he's not compelled to even report the crime. I would imagine that he's violated the code of conduct for the University and so did McQueary(sp), the current position coach, and the AD, and the anyone else that knew.

bfoflcommish
11-08-2011, 10:03 AM
Legally speaking he's not compelled to even report the crime. I would imagine that he's violated the code of conduct for the University and so did McQueary(sp), the current position coach, and the AD, and the anyone else that knew.

By not reporting what he knew to authorities he too hurt the very kids that looked up to his program.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2011, 10:04 AM
he deserves to have his image tarnished and be booted out of the university. This is beyond disgusting.

That One Guy
11-08-2011, 10:06 AM
Legally speaking he's not compelled to even report the crime. I would imagine that he's violated the code of conduct for the University and so did McQueary(sp), the current position coach, and the AD, and the anyone else that knew.

Yeah, I was surprised by that but saw that apparently, legally, he's covered by reporting it. Obviously he's ok legally but, in terms of morally, it was absolutely the wrong decision.

He isn't facing jailtime but his tarnished legacy will tell us all what the right decision would have been. The sad part for Paterno is that he'll probably die before this all has a chance to blow over completely.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 10:09 AM
By not reporting what he knew to authorities he too hurt the very kids that looked up to his program.

Absoultely.

peacepipe
11-08-2011, 10:13 AM
apparently according to the nytimes penn state is planning jopas exit.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 10:14 AM
I would imagine that he's violated the code of conduct for the University and so did McQueary(sp), the current position coach, and the AD, and the anyone else that knew.

From everything I've read, he did precisely what the PSU code of conduct required him to do based off of the information he was given by the witness to the incident.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 10:20 AM
Whoa whoa whoa

Everybody calm dalm. Sandusky's the criminal here and Schultz and Curley aren't too far behind for covering it up.

As for Paterno, Sandusky no longer worked for him and after bringing it to the attention of his superiors who's to say they didn't tell him they notified the police?

IF it comes out that he was in any way shape or form involved in covering this up OR even negligent with how it was handled, then yes, he's done and his legacy should even be forgotten, but let's see over the next week.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:22 AM
So...no Happy Valley or Beaver Stadium jokes yet?

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
11-08-2011, 10:23 AM
"A reputation takes a lifetime to build, but only seconds to destroy."

SureShot
11-08-2011, 10:24 AM
Whoa whoa whoa

Everybody calm dalm. Sandusky's the criminal here and Schultz and Curley aren't too far behind for covering it up.

As for Paterno, Sandusky no longer worked for him and after bringing it to the attention of his superiors who's to say they didn't tell him they notified the police?

IF it comes out that he was in any way shape or form involved in covering this up OR even negligent with how it was handled, then yes, he's done and his legacy should even be forgotten, but let's see over the next week.

So if you were Joe and a assistant told you he saw Sandusky anal raping a ten year old boy you wouldnt feel obligated to do more than just tell your superior? I am surprised to hear that from someone with a kid.

WolfpackGuy
11-08-2011, 10:25 AM
PSU people I know are embarrassed and say he should step down gracefully.

Well, as gracefully as he can at this point.

Pony Boy
11-08-2011, 10:27 AM
JoePa needs this ............

29490

chawknz
11-08-2011, 10:27 AM
‎"An older woman chasing a younger guy is called a cougar. Does this mean an older guy chasing a young boy called a Nittany Lion?"-Tucker Max

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 10:28 AM
So if you were Joe and a assistant told you he saw Sandusky anal raping a ten year old boy you wouldnt feel obligated to do more than just tell your superior? I am surprised to hear that from someone with a kid.

No no no, not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying he may have gone to the athletic director who may have assured him he'd contact the police immediately.

In no way shape or form am I saying the story that's out right now is acceptable. If that's all he did and he thought that was the appropriate channel for that offense, then he should go down hard.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:29 AM
‎"An older woman chasing a younger guy is called a cougar. Does this mean an older guy chasing a young boy called a Nittany Lion?"-Tucker Max



Ooof.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 10:29 AM
From everything I've read, he did precisely what the PSU code of conduct required him to do based off of the information he was given by the witness to the incident.

Well I haven't read it...and as hard as we would try we wouldn't find a 2002 copy. I'll bet if we read it, we'd find it.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 10:32 AM
No no no, not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying he may have gone to the athletic director who may have assured him he'd contact the police immediately.

In no way shape or form am I saying the story that's out right now is acceptable. If that's all he did and he thought that was the appropriate channel for that offense, then he should go down hard.

After a day he'd know the answer to that claim IMO.

Chris
11-08-2011, 10:33 AM
He needs to go to jail.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 10:33 AM
So if you were Joe and a assistant told you he saw Sandusky anal raping a ten year old boy you wouldnt feel obligated to do more than just tell your superior? I am surprised to hear that from someone with a kid.

Unless the assistant says otherwise, which he hasn't so far, nobody is claiming that Joe was told that the event in the shower went that far.

SureShot
11-08-2011, 10:34 AM
No no no, not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying he may have gone to the athletic director who may have assured him he'd contact the police immediately.

In no way shape or form am I saying the story that's out right now is acceptable. If that's all he did and he thought that was the appropriate channel for that offense, then he should go down hard.

Joe has no superior at Pedo State. Didn't he throw the president out of his house after he suggested paterno retire after 4 losing seasons? Joe pa looked the other way because the pederass is his friend. How else can you explain Joe letting that guy on his sidelines as late as 2007?

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 10:34 AM
http://www.psu.edu/ur/principles.html

One of the "The Penn State Principles"

I will demonstrate social and personal responsibility.
The University is a community that promotes learning; any behaviors that are inconsistent with that goal are unacceptable. Irresponsible behaviors, including alcohol or drug abuse and the use of violence against people or property, undermine the educational climate by threatening the physical and mental health of members of the community. I will exercise personal responsibility for my actions and I will make sure that my actions do not interfere with the academic and social environment of the University. I will maintain a high standard of behavior by adhering to the Code of Conduct and respecting the rights of others.

SureShot
11-08-2011, 10:34 AM
Here is a good timeline of events.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/244874/20111107/sandusky-penn-state-scandal-timeline-abuse-cover.htm

bfoflcommish
11-08-2011, 10:36 AM
After a day he'd know the answer to that claim IMO.

Exactly! he would have been interviewed by police, etc... After days, much less many years he knew cops were never called!

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 10:36 AM
http://www.psu.edu/ur/principles.html

One of the "The Penn State Principles"

I will demonstrate social and personal responsibility.
The University is a community that promotes learning; any behaviors that are inconsistent with that goal are unacceptable. Irresponsible behaviors, including alcohol or drug abuse and the use of violence against people or property, undermine the educational climate by threatening the physical and mental health of members of the community. I will exercise personal responsibility for my actions and I will make sure that my actions do not interfere with the academic and social environment of the University. I will maintain a high standard of behavior by adhering to the Code of Conduct and respecting the rights of others.

Ummmm, I fail to see how that applies to anything here. Unless you're trying to argue that football in an of itself goes against the PS Principles because it technically promotes violence against people and often interferes with the academic environment of the University.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 10:38 AM
Joe has no superior at Pedo State. Didn't he throw the president out of his house after he suggested paterno retire after 4 losing seasons? Joe pa looked the other way because the pederass is his friend. How else can you explain Joe letting that guy on his sidelines as late as 2007?

Because he's a billion years old and if someone said "We contacted the police and he was cleared of all charges" he probably wouldve said "Oh, okay, what year is it again?"

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 10:39 AM
Ummmm, I fail to see how that applies to anything here. Unless you're trying to argue that football in an of itself goes against the PS Principles because it technically promotes violence against people and often interferes with the academic environment of the University.

Of course you don't. Because you aren't exercising critical thinking skills.


The University is a community that promotes learning; any behaviors that are inconsistent with that goal are unacceptable. Irresponsible behaviors, including alcohol or drug abuse and the use of violence against people or property, undermine the educational climate by threatening the physical and mental health of members of the community. I will exercise personal responsibility for my actions and I will make sure that my actions do not interfere with the academic and social environment of the University. I will maintain a high standard of behavior by adhering to the Code of Conduct and respecting the rights of others.

Joe Pa violated this principle once the police were never called. He is not the only one.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 10:41 AM
Of course you don't. Because you aren't exercising critical thinking skills.


The University is a community that promotes learning; any behaviors that are inconsistent with that goal are unacceptable. Irresponsible behaviors, including alcohol or drug abuse and the use of violence against people or property, undermine the educational climate by threatening the physical and mental health of members of the community. I will exercise personal responsibility for my actions and I will make sure that my actions do not interfere with the academic and social environment of the University. I will maintain a high standard of behavior by adhering to the Code of Conduct and respecting the rights of others.

Joe Pa violated this principle once the police were never called. He is not the only one.

I completely agree if that's actually the case.

strafen
11-08-2011, 10:44 AM
"A reputation takes a lifetime to build, but only seconds to destroy."

No, you just take on a different reputation...

el chalupacabra
11-08-2011, 10:44 AM
‎"An older woman chasing a younger guy is called a cougar. Does this mean an older guy chasing a young boy called a Nittany Lion?"-Tucker Max

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Child abuse jokes are hilarious!

Unsurprisingly as unfunny as every thought that has ever entered that waste of life's tiny, feeble brain.

SureShot
11-08-2011, 10:45 AM
Unless the assistant says otherwise, which he hasn't so far, nobody is claiming that Joe was told that the event in the shower went that far.

I suggest you read the grand jury testimony.



    On March 1, 2002, a Penn State graduate assistant ("graduate assistant:) who was then 28 years old, entered the locker room at the Lasch Football Building on the University Park Campus on a Friday night near the beginning of Spring Break.

     The graduate assistant, who was familiar with Sandusky, was going to put some newly purchased sneakers in his locker and get some recruiting tapes to watch. It was about 9:30 p.m. As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and showers on. He then heard  slapping sounds.He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked into the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be 10 years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both Victim 2 and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

    The graduate assistant went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he had seen. His father told the graduate assistant to leave the building and come to his home. The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno ("Paterno"), head football coach of Penn State. The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen.

   Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

    Approximately one and a half weeks later, the graduate assistant was called to a meeting with Penn State Athletic Director Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz ("Schultz"). The graduate assistant reported to Curley and Schultz that he had witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers. Curley and Schultz assured the graduate assistant that they would look into it and determine what further action they would take. Paterno was not present for this meeting.

   The graduate assistant heard back from Curley a couple of weeks later. He was told that Sandusky's keys to the locker room were taken away and that the incident had been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant was never questioned by University Police and no other entity conducted an investigation until he testified in Grand Jury in December, 2010. The Grand Jury finds the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible.:kiss:

SureShot
11-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Wtf? I don't know why a smiley was added at the end of my last post.

strafen
11-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Jokes aside...

This is a tragedy no matter how you look at it.
The legacy of Joe Pa will be forever tarnished. That's sad.
That guy was college football. That's all his life was, really, and to have this come out when the guy is what, 80 years old? it's utterly tragic.

Of course there are the other things that go with this case, the kids hurt, their families, other people involved, etc...
We won't know yet Joe Pa's knowledge of what went on, but regardless, he's gone...

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:48 AM
It was all brushed under the rug and nobody cared about these kids. :(

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 10:49 AM
I suggest you read the grand jury testimony.
   

Sounds to me like every one of those gutless ****s, including Paterno, should be going to jail. Why didn't the graduate assistant call the police?

StugotsIII
11-08-2011, 10:49 AM
Sandusky was allowed at PSU facilities as early as last week...and coached 4th graders at a camp in 2009.


How many kids were abused between 2002 and now because MM, Paterno, the AD and the President did not alert the police?


Paterno, along with everyone that knew about this and didn't call the police should be fired.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 10:54 AM
I suggest you read the grand jury testimony.



Yup, I've read it. Like I said, no mention of anal rape in terms of what was told to Joe.

Rabb
11-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Yup, I've read it. Like I said, no mention of anal rape in terms of what was told to Joe.

isn't that exactly what he said?

SureShot
11-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Yup, I've read it. Like I said, no mention of anal rape in terms of what was told to Joe.

What do you believe he told Joe?

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 10:56 AM
I don't know about anybody else, but if I walked into a shower and saw a middle aged man sodomizing a ten year old kid, I'd **** him up bad. Then call the police.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 10:58 AM
Just read the entire Grand Jury report. First of all, it's sickening. Secondly, the amount of people who didn't report to the authorities what they suspected-(or knew) - is nothing short of shocking.

Looks like JoePa did the bare minimum required legally, but it was morally reprehensible.

EzBronco715
11-08-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't know about anybody else, but if I walked into a shower and saw a middle aged man sodomizing a ten year old kid, I'd **** him up bad. Then call the police.

Absolutely this.

SureShot
11-08-2011, 11:02 AM
I don't know about anybody else, but if I walked into a shower and saw a middle aged man sodomizing a ten year old kid, I'd **** him up bad. Then call the police.

Looks like he got a full time coaching gig for keeping his mouth shut.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 11:03 AM
I completely agree if that's actually the case.

Like I said...he's not legally compelled under state law(to my knowlegde) to report the crime unless it was k-12. This is a civil matter and all any lawyer has to do is show this to the jury and bam...it's a won lawsuit.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 11:04 AM
Looks like he got a full time coaching gig for keeping his mouth shut.

That's exactly what it look slike regardless of what happened.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 11:05 AM
The whole thing is terrible. I think Paterno is a genuinely good guy. But it's tough to understand what he could have been thinking with this. Sometimes, great people do not-so-great things, I guess. And it's going to cost him dearly, with his legacy.

I hope Sandusky spends what's left of his life in prison.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Legally speaking he's not compelled to even report the crime. I would imagine that he's violated the code of conduct for the University and so did McQueary(sp), the current position coach, and the AD, and the anyone else that knew.

Most states will criminally prosecute a failure to report a felony.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 11:09 AM
Most states will criminally prosecute a failure to report a felony.

That's why the AD and the vice pres. of the University at the time just got indicted. Doesn't look like they'll go after JoePa, but the States Attorney had some not so nice things to say about his inaction on the matter.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 11:10 AM
Most states will criminally prosecute a failure to report a felony.

IDK....Joe Pa didn't actually see the crime though, which is another issue.

NUB
11-08-2011, 11:12 AM
I feel bad for Joe Paterno in that they are making him the face of this scandal. I mean, he clearly did wrong, but there were so many people besides himself that knew and none of them did the right thing.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 11:13 AM
The whole thing is terrible. I think Paterno is a genuinely good guy. But it's tough to understand what he could have been thinking with this. Sometimes, great people do not-so-great things, I guess. And it's going to cost him dearly, with his legacy.

I hope Sandusky spends what's left of his life in prison.

This... Its been one of the very few remaining character programs so something like this is extremely stunning. I'm looking forward to when Joe can talk and I wish the University hadn't cancelled the press conference.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 11:15 AM
This... Its been one of the very few remaining character programs so something like this is extremely stunning. I'm looking forward to when Joe can talk and I wish the University hadn't cancelled the press conference.

I think they were worried about sending an 83 year old man into that hornets nest alone. That said, the University President should have walked right out there and faced the bullets with him.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:17 AM
IDK....Joe Pa didn't actually see the crime though, which is another issue.

Based on the info in the grand jury testimony, he was informed that a felony had been committed. He should have immediately picked up the phone and called the police.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Based on the info in the grand jury testimony, he was informed that a felony had been committed. He should have immediately picked up the phone and called the police.

I would have. I'd turn in my own blood for it.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 11:19 AM
Are they going after the janitors from the prior incidents?

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
Are they going after the janitors from the prior incidents?

The report said the one that actually witnessed it has dementia and is living in a nursing home. Said he isn't mentally sound enough to testify.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:21 AM
I would have. I'd turn in my own blood for it.

Today is the first time I've read the details on this. I haven't really been following the story at all. I'm totally shocked that a guy like Paterno, who's entire career has been based on ethics, could fail so miserably in this instance.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 11:21 AM
I think they were worried about sending an 83 year old man into that hornets nest alone. That said, the University President should have walked right out there and faced the bullets with him.

All I know is I'm sure he's burning up wanting to tell his side of the story and I only HOPE it manages to justify the perceived inaction.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 11:22 AM
All I know is I'm sure he's burning up wanting to tell his side of the story and I only HOPE it manages to justify the perceived inaction.

He has. He said he did what he was supposed to do.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 11:23 AM
All I know is I'm sure he's burning up wanting to tell his side of the story and I only HOPE it manages to justify the perceived inaction.

I hope it does as well.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:23 AM
He has. He said he did what he was supposed to do.

Sounds like all those Catholic bishops.

24champ
11-08-2011, 11:26 AM
Everyone involved in this matter should lose their jobs, IMO. JoePa is not going to jail, but he should face consequences as well by losing his job. The AD and the President at the time of the shower incident should face jail time, along with Sandusky who should get the maximum sentence allowable for his offenses.

Sounds like the Attorney General is not going to treat those involved lightly. Everyone is going to pay a price and JoePa's legacy is small price to pay compared to what those little boys got done to them. Nobody helped them.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 11:30 AM
Sounds like all those Catholic bishops.

Penn State is technically a Catholic School in the Catholic part of Penn.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 11:30 AM
Everyone involved in this matter should lose their jobs, IMO. JoePa is not going to jail, but he should face consequences as well by losing his job. The AD and the President at the time of the shower incident should face jail time, along with Sandusky who should get the maximum sentence allowable for his offenses.

Sounds like the Attorney General is not going to treat those involved lightly. Everyone is going to pay a price and JoePa's legacy is small price to pay compared to what those little boys got done to them. Nobody helped them.

NY Times is reporting that PSU officials are already trying to come up with JoePa's exit strategy. Looks like he may not even make it until the end of the season. Completely justified IMO.

sisterhellfyre
11-08-2011, 11:33 AM
he deserves to have his image tarnished and be booted out of the university. This is beyond disgusting.

I would say it's a witch hunt, but that would be projecting.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Penn State is technically a Catholic School

No they aren't.

WolfpackGuy
11-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Penn State is technically a Catholic School in the Catholic part of Penn.

The skanks at Shandygaff and Gingerbread Man scoff at that remark...

24champ
11-08-2011, 11:40 AM
NY Times is reporting that PSU officials are already trying to come up with JoePa's exit strategy. Looks like he may not even make it until the end of the season. Completely justified IMO.

That's the way it goes. When you take a job at a school, whether you are teaching or coaching at any level, you are responsible for the well being of the kids and students. It's a huge responsibility and parents are placing their trust in these coaches and teachers, and in an extreme situation like this, I find it sickening that nobody came to these kids defense.

This whole situation could have been resolved the right way if everyone did their jobs. They didn't and now they have to pay the price for it.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 11:43 AM
That's the way it goes. When you take a job at a school, whether you are teaching or coaching at any level, you are responsible for the well being of the kids and students. It's a huge responsibility and parents are placing their trust in these coaches and teachers, and in an extreme situation like this, I find it sickening that nobody came to these kids defense.

This whole situation could have been resolved the right way if everyone did their jobs. They didn't and now they have to pay the price for it.

100% agree.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 11:48 AM
The skanks at Shandygaff and Gingerbread Man scoff at that remark...

I totally forgot about the Gman up there. I liked the Dark Horse too.

Gort
11-08-2011, 12:00 PM
there's a bit of a media-inspired rush to judgement here...

As my grand jury testimony stated, I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators.

if Paterno didn't know the specifics, then what should he have done differently?

should he have called the retired coach into his office to find out what was going on? or should he have called the police with only vague second hand allegations and asked them to interview the former coach?

if the graduate assistant couldn't bring himself to tell Paterno that he actually witnessed a rape, then how could Paterno know the true gravity of the situation? if all Paterno was told is that something inappropriate was witnessed, then what exactly did Paterno do wrong by following school policy and passing the info to his superiors?

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 12:02 PM
Thank you, johngalt....my exact questions from earlier.

broncocalijohn
11-08-2011, 12:07 PM
From everything I've read, he did precisely what the PSU code of conduct required him to do based off of the information he was given by the witness to the incident.

And when he heard nothing came about it, what did he do then? Not sure of the timeline but did they just have the creep retire instead of taking it further? JoPa knew of the incident and should have demanded real action take place.
Have not seen it yet but I am going with it.
PSU
Pedophile
State
University

MplsBronco
11-08-2011, 12:09 PM
I don't know about anybody else, but if I walked into a shower and saw a middle aged man sodomizing a ten year old kid, I'd **** him up bad. Then call the police.

That's what I don't get. How do you turn around and walk away, distraught? I would open a can of a rage on that sick perv.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 12:11 PM
Pure speculation on my part, but why did Paterno force out a 55 year old Sandusky in 1999, after he had previously told Sandusky that he was to be the next head coach of Penn State? The first criminal investigation was in 1998, correct?

While Paterno may have done what he was required to do legally, I find exceedingly difficult to believe that he had no idea of what was going on. And on top of that, after hearing whatever he heard in 2002, he still let Sandusky on campus, with young kids in tow? Seems he should have washed his hands of the dude then.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 12:12 PM
And when he heard nothing came about it, what did he do then?

I don't know, maybe, assume the powers that be did their jobs, investigated and found no wrongdoing or not enough to bring charges?

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 12:16 PM
The real villain is the bastard who did it, piece of crap, Jerry Sandusky. The others are complicit douchebags whose pensions and careers I hope are destroyed for failing to act, but Sandusky, well he's a entirely bigger piece of waste. That is a guy I would like to go to prison and have lot of dropped bars of soap. Either that or get trapped between two rocks and have to cut his arm off only to be immediately eaten alive by a bear or some such thing. As long as he suffers before he dies that would be good.

Though I do think the administration who failed to act need severe repercussions. Never again can we allow this to happen. Did we learn nothing from the failures of the Roman Catholic Church to truly address the pedophile priests (hiding it, moving them from Diocese to Diocese is not a solution).

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

broncocalijohn
11-08-2011, 12:18 PM
I don't know, maybe, assume the powers that be did their jobs, investigated and found no wrongdoing or not enough to bring charges?

If it is something that serious, I would want to know the exact details. There are reports. How about the coach that actually saw the incident? How can he not say anything when it looked like it was swept under the rug?

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 12:25 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mothers_of_two_of_jerry_sandus.html

this was really sad, an article about some of the mother's trying to get this dealt with and being met with barriers.

"Ten years before he came forward, another child, now 24, had also spoken up. He wasn’t believed. Allegations he made against Sandusky about touching during a shared shower at Penn State in 1998 never resulted in charges.

Sandusky, through his attorney, denies all the charges. Attorney Joe Amendola, said Sandusky attributes the allegations to troubled kids who are acting out."

"Prosecutors allege the administrators ignored a 2002 report from a graduate assistant — identified by sources as Mike McQueary — that he saw Sandusky having sex with a young boy in a shower.

McQueary, now an assistant coach for the Nittany Lions football team, went to his father first, then to coach Joe Paterno.

“I don’t even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel,” said the mom of Victim Six. “[McQueary] was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?”

there's so much more. it's awful and sad statement about protecting the wrong people, not the boys being abused, but the adult who committed the acts and the paychecks of his bosses.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 12:27 PM
How about the coach that actually saw the incident? How can he not say anything when it looked like it was swept under the rug?

I'm with you on that part. No excuse.

So far, there is at least doubt as to what exactly Joe Pa knew and how much detail he was given about the act, so I'm going to cut him some slack. But the coach who saw the incident doesn't have that luxury. He knows and has testified as to what he saw and did nothing.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 12:28 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mothers_of_two_of_jerry_sandus.html

this was really sad, an article about some of the mother's trying to get this dealt with and being met with barriers.

"Ten years before he came forward, another child, now 24, had also spoken up. He wasn’t believed. Allegations he made against Sandusky about touching during a shared shower at Penn State in 1998 never resulted in charges.

Sandusky, through his attorney, denies all the charges. Attorney Joe Amendola, said Sandusky attributes the allegations to troubled kids who are acting out."

"Prosecutors allege the administrators ignored a 2002 report from a graduate assistant — identified by sources as Mike McQueary — that he saw Sandusky having sex with a young boy in a shower.

McQueary, now an assistant coach for the Nittany Lions football team, went to his father first, then to coach Joe Paterno.

“I don’t even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel,” said the mom of Victim Six. “[McQueary] was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?”

there's so much more. it's awful and sad statement about protecting the wrong people, not the boys being abused, but the adult who committed the acts and the paychecks of his bosses.

I live about 1hrish from PSU - so trust me - that's been looped...a lot.

Tombstone RJ
11-08-2011, 12:31 PM
I seriously doubt JoePa knew anything. I'm guessing that any real information was probably hidden from him. He's old, he's a legend, he's proven time and time again that he has integrity.

IMHO, he simple didn't know what was going on.

Gort
11-08-2011, 12:31 PM
Pure speculation on my part, but why did Paterno force out a 55 year old Sandusky in 1999, after he had previously told Sandusky that he was to be the next head coach of Penn State? The first criminal investigation was in 1998, correct?

While Paterno may have done what he was required to do legally, I find exceedingly difficult to believe that he had no idea of what was going on. And on top of that, after hearing whatever he heard in 2002, he still let Sandusky on campus, with young kids in tow? Seems he should have washed his hands of the dude then.

the media runs wild during the first few days of a juicy scandal and they throw out accusations at lightning speed trying to be the first to get on the air with the next juicy new tidbit. it's only weeks or months later that we find out most of the accusations aren't true.

all i'm saying is slow down and don't let the media jump to conclusions before all parties have had a chance to speak and the investigation has had a chance to proceed.

i'm no particular fan of Penn State, but i find it hard to believe that Paterno would "sweep under the rug" a scandal such as this. i don't think he knew what the media insists he "must have known". Paterno is a busy football coach. he's not King Solomon.

DBroncos4life
11-08-2011, 12:32 PM
I feel bad for him. Odds are he will be forced out then we will find out he didn't do anything wrong like Tressel.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 12:36 PM
the media runs wild during the first few days of a juicy scandal and they throw out accusations at lightning speed trying to be the first to get on the air with the next juicy new tidbit. it's only weeks or months later that we find out most of the accusations aren't true.

all i'm saying is slow down and don't let the media jump to conclusions before all parties have had a chance to speak and the investigation has had a chance to proceed.

i'm no particular fan of Penn State, but i find it hard to believe that Paterno would "sweep under the rug" a scandal such as this. i don't think he knew what the media insists he "must have known". Paterno is a busy football coach. he's not King Solomon.

Fair enough. I still think he knew more than he has let on, but you are correct in saying that we should wait until this clears up a bit before passing judgement on the man.

Gort
11-08-2011, 12:36 PM
The real villain is the bastard who did it, piece of crap, Jerry Sandusky. The others are complicit douchebags whose pensions and careers I hope are destroyed for failing to act, but Sandusky, well he's a entirely bigger piece of waste. That is a guy I would like to go to prison and have lot of dropped bars of soap. Either that or get trapped between two rocks and have to cut his arm off only to be immediately eaten alive by a bear or some such thing. As long as he suffers before he dies that would be good.

Though I do think the administration who failed to act need severe repercussions. Never again can we allow this to happen. Did we learn nothing from the **** the Roman Catholics inflicted.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

the Roman Catholics?

i'm Roman Catholic. are you saying i did something?

the Roman Catholics didn't do anything. some pedophile priests did. there's a distinction to be made. Roman Catholics were/are more angry about what happened than those outside the church.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 12:41 PM
there's a bit of a media-inspired rush to judgement here...



if Paterno didn't know the specifics, then what should he have done differently?

should he have called the retired coach into his office to find out what was going on? or should he have called the police with only vague second hand allegations and asked them to interview the former coach?

if the graduate assistant couldn't bring himself to tell Paterno that he actually witnessed a rape, then how could Paterno know the true gravity of the situation? if all Paterno was told is that something inappropriate was witnessed, then what exactly did Paterno do wrong by following school policy and passing the info to his superiors?

He needed to call the police.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 12:41 PM
the Roman Catholics?

i'm Roman Catholic. are you saying i did something?

the Roman Catholics didn't do anything. some pedophile priests did. there's a distinction to be made. Roman Catholics were/are more angry about what happened than those outside the church.

Sorry that was inflammatory and what I meant was the Church itself. I'll fix it. I do think the Roman Catholic Church passed their problems from church to church, though I've never believed they were the only church or big organization to do so. If I recall, there was a similar issue with the boy scouts, and there is a reason why youth sports in general now have stricter requirements for who can volunteer to work with kids.

I am a Roman Catholic by birth and education, but the Church scandals were one of many reasons that made me leave.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 12:56 PM
Sorry that was inflammatory and what I meant was the Church itself. I'll fix it. I do think the Roman Catholic Church passed their problems from church to church, though I've never believed they were the only church or big organization to do so. If I recall, there was a similar issue with the boy scouts, and there is a reason why youth sports in general now have stricter requirements for who can volunteer to work with kids.

I am a Roman Catholic by birth and education, but the Church scandals were one of many reasons that made me leave.

I went to a Southern Baptist Military school. We went to Chapel 5 times a week. I had to pass religious studies to graduate high school. And my mother was CAtholic

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 01:00 PM
I went to a Southern Baptist Military school. We went to Chapel 5 times a week. I had to pass religious studies to graduate high school. And my mother was CAtholic

I went to Catholic school for 8 years, my mother was in a convent for 3 years before deciding against taking orders. Most of my family is Catholic. I have a bachelor's degree in Theology. I am not exactly sure what you are trying to tell me. I have issues with the way the Catholic Church handled the issue, which was largely to hide it, not with Catholicism itself.

24champ
11-08-2011, 01:01 PM
He needed to call the police.

Yup, they all needed to go to the police but didn't.

And for that, they are all going down.

Mountain Bronco
11-08-2011, 01:24 PM
Unless the assistant says otherwise, which he hasn't so far, nobody is claiming that Joe was told that the event in the shower went that far.

Read the Grand Jury Report. The assistant reported anal rape.

Mountain Bronco
11-08-2011, 01:26 PM
I seriously doubt JoePa knew anything. I'm guessing that any real information was probably hidden from him. He's old, he's a legend, he's proven time and time again that he has integrity.

IMHO, he simple didn't know what was going on.

Not knowing what was going on when the Grand Jury report clearly shows that he did? Give me a break and don't defend this guy, he doesn't deserve it. This is the worst thing that has happened in a college locker room ever and it happened on Mr. Integrity's watch.

Give me a break.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Read the Grand Jury Report. The assistant reported anal rape.

Once again.....I DID. Maybe you should. He reported anal rape to the higher ups. This is not in question. What is in question is what exactly he reported to Joe Pa in their meeting the day before the meeting with the higher ups. That was a different meeting and nowhere is HE quoted as saying he told Joe Pa that. The grand jury testimony, which was posted here, only gives Joe Pa's side of that one on one meeting. And he was very clear that anal rape was not reported to him.

StugotsIII
11-08-2011, 01:28 PM
I feel bad for him. Odds are he will be forced out then we will find out he didn't do anything wrong like Tressel.

Please don't compare Tressel protecting his athletes to Paterno not doing everything he could to protect innonect children from getting raped by a 50 year old man...

24champ
11-08-2011, 01:30 PM
Once again.....I DID. Maybe you should. He reported anal rape to the higher ups. This is not in question. What is in question is what exactly he reported to Joe Pa in their meeting the day before the meeting with the higher ups. That was a different meeting and nowhere is HE quoted as saying he told Joe Pa that. The grand jury testimony, which was posted here, only gives Joe Pa's side of that one on one meeting. And he was very clear that anal rape was not reported to him.

Either way, JoePa is done. There's no surviving this scandal.

Mountain Bronco
11-08-2011, 01:34 PM
"The next morning the assistant went to Paterno's home and reported to him what he had seen".

To me he would have reported exactly what he saw as he did with the university higher ups.

Even if Jo-Pa only knew of inappropriate touching that is enough (hell any report of that nature no matter how small it is is enough) to make sure that this bastard never did anything like this again.

Jo-Pa is culpable.

Stagger Lee
11-08-2011, 01:34 PM
Either way, JoePa is done. There's no surviving this scandal.

Yeah, he's finished. I'm not sure he makes it through this week.

Gort
11-08-2011, 01:36 PM
"The next morning the assistant went to Paterno's home and reported to him what he had seen".

To me he would have reported exactly what he saw as he did with the university higher ups.

Even if Jo-Pa only knew of inappropriate touching that is enough (hell any report of that nature no matter how small it is is enough) to make sure that this bastard never did anything like this again.

Jo-Pa is culpable.

you sure seem impartial

is it possible he told Paterno, "I saw the retired coach touching a youngster in an inappropriate way", and then the next day told the university officials, upon further questioning by them about what that exactly meant, that he witnessed a rape in progress?

you'd have to believe that Paterno has no problem with the concept of child molestation to believe that he would do nothing if told directly that's what was going on. what in Paterno's history would suggest that?

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 01:40 PM
"The next morning the assistant went to Paterno's home and reported to him what he had seen".

To me he would have reported exactly what he saw as he did with the university higher ups.

One would think so. But Joe Pa went on record with his side of the story, stating very clearly that anal rape was never mentioned, and the assistant never denied it. That's telling IMO.

"Even if Jo-Pa only knew of inappropriate touching that is enough (hell any report of that nature no matter how small it is is enough) to make sure that this bastard never did anything like this again.

Jo-Pa is culpable.

Not debating that. Just pointing out that there's a HUGE difference between being told of an underage anal rape episode and being told that you "saw something inappropriate". I know I'd react differently.

orinjkrush
11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
"The next morning the assistant went to Paterno's home and reported to him what he had seen".

To me he would have reported exactly what he saw as he did with the university higher ups.

Even if Jo-Pa only knew of inappropriate touching that is enough (hell any report of that nature no matter how small it is is enough) to make sure that this bastard never did anything like this again.

Jo-Pa is culpable.

This. As a PSU grad, its not only what JoPa knew and did; its what he SHOULD HAVE KNOWN AND DID. Especially since he has prided himself for years for "doing the right thing" when it came to his players. Apparently that didnt extend to the coaches too.

Talk about being ashamed for your school. :holyguac!

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 01:54 PM
I went to Catholic school for 8 years, my mother was in a convent for 3 years before deciding against taking orders. Most of my family is Catholic. I have a bachelor's degree in Theology. I am not exactly sure what you are trying to tell me. I have issues with the way the Catholic Church handled the issue, which was largely to hide it, not with Catholicism itself.

IT was in regards to te other thread and the study of religion.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 01:57 PM
Joe Posnanski wrote a great column on all of this.

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/06/darkness/

My favorite part: "I came to the conclusion then — a conclusion that has congealed through the years — that people are complicated and contradictory and mysterious and often bewildering. Good people do bad things, bad people do good things, happy people get lost, lost people become heroes. This is the wonderful and depressing and daunting challenge of writing about people. Things don’t always make sense. Mistakes are made. Greatness emerges when you don’t expect it. There have been thousands of books written about Abraham Lincoln. There will be thousands more. And none of them will ever get him in his entirety."

ohiobronco2
11-08-2011, 02:15 PM
This is absolutely awful. Feel terrible for those kids. It's the ultimate wake up call for the Penn St. (we never do anything wrong, our athletes get punished by cleaning the stadium) fans. They were the first to throw stones when the Tressel story first broke. Joe Pa was going to be done after this year one way or the other. Now his legacy will be this and not the all time wins record.

DBroncos4life
11-08-2011, 02:18 PM
Please don't compare Tressel protecting his athletes to Paterno not doing everything he could to protect innonect children from getting raped by a 50 year old man...

Not even close to what I said. Lol

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 02:22 PM
I just read the full GA report. I just want to grab him by his roman nose, joepa, and beat the trash outta him and break his hip. And this Sandusky trash....I'd just put a bullet in him and call it a day.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 02:25 PM
IT was in regards to te other thread and the study of religion.
I will answer on that thread so this doesn't derail the actual topic of the thread.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 02:29 PM
The thing about it (and I'm sure I will have some people completely disagree with me on this) is that I have no doubt Jerry Sandusky has some wonderful qualities. I bet there are many, many times more kids that he's helped than there are those that he's hurt. I bet he had some pretty complicated, elaborate equations that he used to justify his behavior.

He still deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. But I'm glad I don't have to be the one to pass a final judgement on him. I think it will be complicated.

I think there must be something different in the genetic makeup of pedophiles. Sexual attraction to children is such a foreign concept to most of us. I just don't see how a person with normal sexual appetites ever gets there - even if it happens over time. Throw in the fact that it does such incredible harm to the victim - irreparable harm - and I can't imagine how even a narcissist could justify doing it.

During college, I worked as a psych tech at the state mental hospital. Part of that time was spent at the youth facility, where the vast majority of the patients have had sexual abuse in their history. These were basically throw-away kids - it was so heartbreaking. Most of them will be sexual offenders when they grow up - most will simply replicate relationships and activities that experienced as children. So, you have people like Sandusky decide that to fulfill a moment's sexual pleasure, it is worth ruining potentially generations of people.

Like I said, it's just not a process that evolves in a normal person's brain - even a selfish, deprived person. I don't think there's a way to rehabilitate it. You just have to lock them up, and never allow them to be in a position to do it again.

Gort
11-08-2011, 02:55 PM
The thing about it (and I'm sure I will have some people completely disagree with me on this) is that I have no doubt Jerry Sandusky has some wonderful qualities. I bet there are many, many times more kids that he's helped than there are those that he's hurt. I bet he had some pretty complicated, elaborate equations that he used to justify his behavior.

He still deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. But I'm glad I don't have to be the one to pass a final judgement on him. I think it will be complicated.

I think there must be something different in the genetic makeup of pedophiles. Sexual attraction to children is such a foreign concept to most of us. I just don't see how a person with normal sexual appetites ever gets there - even if it happens over time. Throw in the fact that it does such incredible harm to the victim - irreparable harm - and I can't imagine how even a narcissist could justify doing it.

During college, I worked as a psych tech at the state mental hospital. Part of that time was spent at the youth facility, where the vast majority of the patients have had sexual abuse in their history. These were basically throw-away kids - it was so heartbreaking. Most of them will be sexual offenders when they grow up - most will simply replicate relationships and activities that experienced as children. So, you have people like Sandusky decide that to fulfill a moment's sexual pleasure, it is worth ruining potentially generations of people.

Like I said, it's just not a process that evolves in a normal person's brain - even a selfish, deprived person. I don't think there's a way to rehabilitate it. You just have to lock them up, and never allow them to be in a position to do it again.

i'm surprised he hasn't blown his brains out yet. this is a guy with "standing" in his community. he's now shamed himself, his friends, his former players, his family... the only people standing by him are ones who do not believe he was capable of doing what he's alleged to have done. if this process drags on, and the evidence starts growing, they will all abandon him. for somebody like him, i think swallowing the end of a shotgun will be more appealing than a lengthy trial and life in prison. i would still wager the odds are better than 50-50 that this will end that way.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 03:00 PM
One little anecdote about Joe Paterno.

When I was in college, Penn State was in town for a football game. Lavell Edwards (then the coach at BYU) and Joe Paterno are apparently old friends, and they went to dinner at a Mexican restaurant where my friend was waiting tables. At the time, she had just received her assignment to serve an 18-month LDS mission in South America - she was leaving as soon as the fall semester at BYU was finished.

So, while going back and forth in the normal process of serving their table, she gets talking to Paterno, and he starts asking about her mission - what she would be doing, where she would live, what her plans were afterwards, etc. She said he was really friendly; and while he seemed genuinely interested in hearing about it, she just sort of assumed it was little more than small talk.

After Lavell and Paterno left, my friend found that Paterno had left her a note and a personal check (made out to her first name only, which was on her name tag) for $1,000. The note said that he had really enjoyed talking with her, that he admired her for her willingness to make such a commitment, and he hoped she could use the money to help pay for her mission.

I've always admired the guy. I can't say I feel sorry for his situation, if he indeed could have done anything to stop Sandusky from abusing more children. The whole thing is just sad - sad that something that could have been so positive has turned out to be so negative - even for those kids. What a wonderful experience for these kids to meet their heroes, and to get to feel important at a place they would otherwise only dream of - a dream that turned into a nightmare for some of them.

Paterno is a good man who used some really poor judgement, in this case.

LakotaBronco
11-08-2011, 03:11 PM
Just wondering out loud.....I wonder of Jopa is going to lead Penn State out onto the field this Saturday?

Mountain Bronco
11-08-2011, 03:17 PM
One would think so. But Joe Pa went on record with his side of the story, stating very clearly that anal rape was never mentioned, and the assistant never denied it. That's telling IMO.



Not debating that. Just pointing out that there's a HUGE difference between being told of an underage anal rape episode and being told that you "saw something inappropriate". I know I'd react differently.

Yes, I would probably react differently if I was told about rape versus inappropriate touching. Rape, I would probably kill the bastard, inappropriate touching, I would just dismember him.

Seriously, he was told of an inappropriate incident, then let the guy hang around kids for years after and never thought anything more of it? Puzzling to me, but I don't have a program to protect either....

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 03:18 PM
I can agree that he's a good person, but this situation is when its time to stand up and be counted. I am the most disappointed by the GA outside of the ****bag who was abusing those children.

Mountain Bronco
11-08-2011, 03:25 PM
I have no doubt Jerry Sandusky has some wonderful qualities. I bet there are many, many times more kids that he's helped than there are those that he's hurt.


You can't be serious. You must know how jacked up these kids (at least 7) will be for the rest of their lives and no help to any number of kids can every equate to the harm he has cause. I hope I am misunderstanding your comments. Man the grand jury report shows the tail of a sick twisted serial pedophile who used his position of trust and authority in such and evil way it is disgusting, I don't know how you can say anyone like that has wonderful qualities.

I am frankly pretty shocked by this thread and some of the responses. A former coach raped a child in the Penn State Locker room, Joe Paterno had at least a small indication that something inappropriate was going on yet he still let this man around the program as recently as last week. I don't get any level of support for the man on this.

Chris
11-08-2011, 03:29 PM
Puzzling to me, but I don't have a program to protect either....

**** the stupid football program. These are kids lives they're ****ing with.

24champ
11-08-2011, 03:30 PM
Just wondering out loud.....I wonder of Jopa is going to lead Penn State out onto the field this Saturday?

That's TBD by the PSU officials that were conferring to come up with Jopa's exit strategy.

He should resign ASAP.

Mountain Bronco
11-08-2011, 03:33 PM
^^^ I was obviously being sarcastic.

One last thing and I can't take this anymore as I want to throw up.

This was in Joe Pa's statement on Sunday. "If this is true we were all fooled..." I don't understand this statement. How can he say he was fooled when he was made aware of at least inappropriate touching? It doesn't add up. I think a long time friend was in trouble and Joe made an awful choice that affected greatly the lives of at risk young children. Nothing he has ever done or he does now can change that in my opinion. That is obviously my opinion and skewer me for it if you will...

24champ
11-08-2011, 03:52 PM
In the State of California according to California Penal Code section 11165.7 if you are a teacher, doctor, nurse coach etc. you are a "mandated reporter" which means you are mandated to report any type of abuse of a child to the authorities.

From Mandatedreporterca.com
What if my supervisor tells me not to report my concerns because they are not sufficient?


You must still make a report the county child welfare department or local law enforcement. If the supervisor disagrees, the individual with the original suspicion must report.




What happens if I am concerned about abuse or neglect and I do not make a report?


Legally mandated reporters can be criminally liable for failing to report suspected abuse or neglect. The penalty for this misdemeanor is up to six months in jail and/or up to a $1,000 fine. Mandated reporters can also be subject to a civil lawsuit, and found liable for damages, especially if the child-victim or another child is further victimized because of the failure to report.



So technically if Joepa was working in California, he could be facing jail time. The interesting thing is if you report it and there is no negligence or harm found, you cannot be sued or fired. Then again, I don't know the Pennsylvania state laws but if they are similar, I don't understand why this wasn't looked into more than it was.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 03:59 PM
You can't be serious. You must know how jacked up these kids (at least 7) will be for the rest of their lives and no help to any number of kids can every equate to the harm he has cause. I hope I am misunderstanding your comments. Man the grand jury report shows the tail of a sick twisted serial pedophile who used his position of trust and authority in such and evil way it is disgusting, I don't know how you can say anyone like that has wonderful qualities.

I am frankly pretty shocked by this thread and some of the responses. A former coach raped a child in the Penn State Locker room, Joe Paterno had at least a small indication that something inappropriate was going on yet he still let this man around the program as recently as last week. I don't get any level of support for the man on this.

Did you read the rest of my post?

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 04:11 PM
In the State of California according to California Penal Code section 11165.7 if you are a teacher, doctor, nurse coach etc. you are a "mandated reporter" which means you are mandated to report any type of abuse of a child to the authorities.

From Mandatedreporterca.com





So technically if Joepa was working in California, he could be facing jail time. The interesting thing is if you report it and there is no negligence or harm found, you cannot be sued or fired. Then again, I don't know the Pennsylvania state laws but if they are similar, I don't understand why this wasn't looked into more than it was.

People don't want to upset the apple cart. Its disgusting.

broncogary
11-08-2011, 04:12 PM
You guys are acting like this is as serious as when McDaniels hired the guy previously guilty of illegally taping practices.

BroncosSR
11-08-2011, 04:20 PM
Like I said...he's not legally compelled under state law(to my knowlegde) to report the crime unless it was k-12. This is a civil matter and all any lawyer has to do is show this to the jury and bam...it's a won lawsuit.

Actually in PA he is lawfully required to report the crime of child abuse/neglect. The difference is that Joe Pa didn't witness anything. He was told of indirect, 3rd party information which is why he took it to the AD and was cleared of any wrongdoing (legally speaking).

The AD and President are the real scumbags.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 04:30 PM
The second worst slimeball in this whole affair is the assistant, McQuealy, or whatever his name is. He saw what he saw. Such a sight should have been burned into his brain. Then, he tells his dad and Paterno, and when nothing happens, he just goes on with his life? Is he some kind of sociopath?

24champ
11-08-2011, 04:44 PM
Actually in PA he is lawfully required to report the crime of child abuse/neglect. The difference is that Joe Pa didn't witness anything. He was told of indirect, 3rd party information which is why he took it to the AD and was cleared of any wrongdoing (legally speaking).

The AD and President are the real scumbags.

Does he actually have to witness something?

Archer81
11-08-2011, 04:54 PM
Some of my thoughts on this.

The evidence as presented is damning. However, people have faced accusations like this before, and when investigated have been found innocent. (The daycare where there were reportedly orgies and satanic worship).

The people at PSU who knew of wildly inappropriate behavior and merely kicked it down the road and not tell the police disgust me. If you saw a 50 year old man doing something odd with a 10 year old why do you run off and NOT try to get to the kid?

If (benefit of the doubt) Sandusky is a pedophile, these 7 kids are not the only ones. These type of people dont just start raping kids out of the blue. Does anyone else think its weird to have an adult shower with young athletes? Is that normal? I played soccer, wrestled, did football and never had that happen.

:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 05:13 PM
Actually in PA he is lawfully required to report the crime of child abuse/neglect. The difference is that Joe Pa didn't witness anything. He was told of indirect, 3rd party information which is why he took it to the AD and was cleared of any wrongdoing (legally speaking).

The AD and President are the real scumbags.

Where would he be required to report it? Police or Child Welfare? Cause he didn't do that.

dsmoot
11-08-2011, 05:13 PM
He should. When you know about someone on your staff molesting a 10 year old boy in the locker room, you call the police. You don't hand it off to administration to handle it internally.

You call the police on your job without passing it up the line to your supervision and you will create a real career ending or limiting situation

24champ
11-08-2011, 05:28 PM
You call the police on your job without passing it up the line to your supervision and you will create a real career ending or limiting situation

No, he is legally protected if he went to the proper authorities about this incident.

Generally, any person who, in good faith, reports or causes a report to be made and cooperates with agency investigations and proceedings, shall have immunity from civil and criminal liability related to those actions, as provided by law (23 Pa. C.S. § 6318). A person required to report suspected child abuse is presumed to have acted in good faith.

On the other hand...

A person required to report a case of suspected child abuse who willfully fails to do so may be subject to criminal prosecution. (23 Pa. C.S. § 6319)

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 05:30 PM
The second worst slimeball in this whole affair is the assistant, McQuealy, or whatever his name is. He saw what he saw. Such a sight should have been burned into his brain. Then, he tells his dad and Paterno, and when nothing happens, he just goes on with his life? Is he some kind of sociopath?

I agree. Initially, his conscience obviously was steering him right, with the shock he described as a result of seeing what he saw. And maybe in his inexperience, calling his dad wasn't such a bad thing to do. From there, the process should have quickly escalated to the only reasonable conclusion: Sandusky being arrested. When that didn't happen, there should have been a point when he put more fuel on the fire.

In other words, when he saw Sandusky continue to enjoy freedom, he should have gone to the police and media himself. He should have done that no more than a day or two after having witnessed the disgusting scene in the shower. It might have been scary, and he might have felt that he was sacrificing his future. But it was the only correct thing to do.

McDman
11-08-2011, 05:38 PM
The thing about it (and I'm sure I will have some people completely disagree with me on this) is that I have no doubt Jerry Sandusky has some wonderful qualities. I bet there are many, many times more kids that he's helped than there are those that he's hurt. I bet he had some pretty complicated, elaborate equations that he used to justify his behavior.

He still deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. But I'm glad I don't have to be the one to pass a final judgement on him. I think it will be complicated.

I think there must be something different in the genetic makeup of pedophiles. Sexual attraction to children is such a foreign concept to most of us. I just don't see how a person with normal sexual appetites ever gets there - even if it happens over time. Throw in the fact that it does such incredible harm to the victim - irreparable harm - and I can't imagine how even a narcissist could justify doing it.

During college, I worked as a psych tech at the state mental hospital. Part of that time was spent at the youth facility, where the vast majority of the patients have had sexual abuse in their history. These were basically throw-away kids - it was so heartbreaking. Most of them will be sexual offenders when they grow up - most will simply replicate relationships and activities that experienced as children. So, you have people like Sandusky decide that to fulfill a moment's sexual pleasure, it is worth ruining potentially generations of people.

Like I said, it's just not a process that evolves in a normal person's brain - even a selfish, deprived person. I don't think there's a way to rehabilitate it. You just have to lock them up, and never allow them to be in a position to do it again.

He ****ed a ten year old kid. It doesn't matter who he has helped. He deserves to die.

extralife
11-08-2011, 05:38 PM
You call the police on your job without passing it up the line to your supervision and you will create a real career ending or limiting situation

1. tough ****

2. yeah right. he's jopa, what were they going to do? fire him?

24champ
11-08-2011, 06:21 PM
http://mit.zenfs.com/101/2011/11/penn-paper.jpg

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 06:59 PM
He ****ed a ten year old kid. It doesn't matter who he has helped. He deserves to die.

Right. But again, you're preaching to the choir. As I said, "he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison."

But again, I am saying that there are all kinds of degrees of justification. I'm guessing he justified his own actions by saying he was helping more children than he was harming. I'm sure those around him justified their suspicions by saying that they must have been mistaken - that surely, a person so dedicated to helping children couldn't possibly be doing the harm they thought they were witnessing.

There have been a couple responses to my post, wondering how I could defend something like this. So, I must not have explained myself well. I would never defend it. I said that the only safe response is to remove the person from society, with no second chance - that it wasn't a behavior that could be corrected. I've seen the long-term, irreparable harm it causes for the victims and their families. But I think it's positive to try and understand how it happens - to the predator, AND the enablers.

StugotsIII
11-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Paterno will resign before Saturday's game.

Punisher
11-08-2011, 07:33 PM
He should have retired ten years ago. Now, he goes out in disgrace.

This
It's a shame everything he build and work for will be stained with this incident

McDman
11-08-2011, 07:46 PM
Right. But again, you're preaching to the choir. As I said, "he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison."

But again, I am saying that there are all kinds of degrees of justification. I'm guessing he justified his own actions by saying he was helping more children than he was harming. I'm sure those around him justified their suspicions by saying that they must have been mistaken - that surely, a person so dedicated to helping children couldn't possibly be doing the harm they thought they were witnessing.

There have been a couple responses to my post, wondering how I could defend something like this. So, I must not have explained myself well. I would never defend it. I said that the only safe response is to remove the person from society, with no second chance - that it wasn't a behavior that could be corrected. I've seen the long-term, irreparable harm it causes for the victims and their families. But I think it's positive to try and understand how it happens - to the predator, AND the enablers.

The number is up to 20 kids now. I mean, how many kids did he actually help with football camps? I've been to lacrosse camps before and no coach has ever changed my life for the better or helped me.

I'm sure he has helped college kids because he obviously has not interest in them.

I don't think he deserves life in prison, I think he deserves death by castration. Let the ****er bleed out.

Bronx33
11-08-2011, 07:53 PM
This whole thing disgusts me.

Steve Sewell
11-08-2011, 08:08 PM
I've lost all respect for Joe Paterno. What a scumbag.

I'm starting to really hate college football...it seems that most of the coaches involved in the college game are lying, cheating, win-at-all-costs lowlifes just waiting to be exposed.

hookemhess
11-08-2011, 08:20 PM
I just read the grand jury report and I'm physically ill. I hope Sandusky doesn't get an opportunity to swallow a bullet before they send him to prison for life.

hookemhess
11-08-2011, 08:38 PM
You can't make this **** up: http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575

Bronx33
11-08-2011, 08:42 PM
You can't make this **** up: http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575


Check the reviews out

Bronx33
11-08-2011, 09:06 PM
I just read the grand jury report and I'm physically ill. I hope Sandusky doesn't get an opportunity to swallow a bullet before they send him to prison for life.


I just read it and i am speechless the dude was a sexual predator and nobody did anything about it that just makes me sick.

RaiderH8r
11-08-2011, 09:47 PM
Among many things that need to be changed at Penn St, and certainly way down the list of priorities, but somebody should start thinking of new names for "Happy Valley" because that has less cache' than Neverland Ranch and Jesus Juice. Crappy Valley; where touching kids and changing lives is a way of life.

F those guys with a flaming AIDS tree.

ol#7
11-09-2011, 01:29 AM
Wow, shocked, disgusted and dissapointed. I dont know how the coach who saw this can sleep at night.

I do think Paterno is getting a bit too much blame based on what I read though, but thats just my view from what I have read.

Everytime a big case breaks about these pedo's though, its amazing how many times authority dropped the ball that let them continue to do it.

MplsBronco
11-09-2011, 05:42 AM
The second worst slimeball in this whole affair is the assistant, McQuealy, or whatever his name is. He saw what he saw. Such a sight should have been burned into his brain. Then, he tells his dad and Paterno, and when nothing happens, he just goes on with his life? Is he some kind of sociopath?

He's an assitant coach now right? Sandusky's been around campus as recently as last week right? You know he's seen Sandusky around. And yeah, he just goes on with his life and let's Sandusky go on with his? I don't get it.

This has to have been known in these tight circles for a long time and no one did anything about it.

MplsBronco
11-09-2011, 05:46 AM
Some of my thoughts on this.

The evidence as presented is damning. However, people have faced accusations like this before, and when investigated have been found innocent. (The daycare where there were reportedly orgies and satanic worship).

The people at PSU who knew of wildly inappropriate behavior and merely kicked it down the road and not tell the police disgust me. If you saw a 50 year old man doing something odd with a 10 year old why do you run off and NOT try to get to the kid?

If (benefit of the doubt) Sandusky is a pedophile, these 7 kids are not the only ones. These type of people dont just start raping kids out of the blue. Does anyone else think its weird to have an adult shower with young athletes? Is that normal? I played soccer, wrestled, did football and never had that happen.

:Broncos:

My high school soccer coach would always make us shower after practice but we all would wear our shorts in the shower. He would be naked. He was also the coach of my cousins club team for years when we were younger. Lo and behold, he was convicted a molesting a kid at my high school a couple of years after I graduated. He was English and ended being deported. But, no, its not normal.

MplsBronco
11-09-2011, 05:52 AM
That same coach would also have kids stay in his hotel room when the club team traveled. This was my cousins club team. My cousin in kinda up tight and emotionless. We've grown apart over the years. I wonder if anything ever happened to him with this coach. But how do you ask that?

Mediator12
11-09-2011, 07:18 AM
The thing about it (and I'm sure I will have some people completely disagree with me on this) is that I have no doubt Jerry Sandusky has some wonderful qualities. I bet there are many, many times more kids that he's helped than there are those that he's hurt. I bet he had some pretty complicated, elaborate equations that he used to justify his behavior.

He still deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. But I'm glad I don't have to be the one to pass a final judgement on him. I think it will be complicated.

I think there must be something different in the genetic makeup of pedophiles. Sexual attraction to children is such a foreign concept to most of us. I just don't see how a person with normal sexual appetites ever gets there - even if it happens over time. Throw in the fact that it does such incredible harm to the victim - irreparable harm - and I can't imagine how even a narcissist could justify doing it.

During college, I worked as a psych tech at the state mental hospital. Part of that time was spent at the youth facility, where the vast majority of the patients have had sexual abuse in their history. These were basically throw-away kids - it was so heartbreaking. Most of them will be sexual offenders when they grow up - most will simply replicate relationships and activities that experienced as children. So, you have people like Sandusky decide that to fulfill a moment's sexual pleasure, it is worth ruining potentially generations of people.

Like I said, it's just not a process that evolves in a normal person's brain - even a selfish, deprived person. I don't think there's a way to rehabilitate it. You just have to lock them up, and never allow them to be in a position to do it again.

This is a great thought Dom. It's really risky in this environment of either/or mentality though ;D

1. People are complicated, but we absolutely try to stereotype and simplify them for our own protection. People are perceived to be as good as their first impression minus their worst known behaviors. Now, Sandusky will be labeled as a child molester for the rest of his life. Period. Once labeled....

2. Judgement on this is not that complicated to me. He was going to be held to much higher standards being a coach and a volunteer for at risk boys. He voluntarily stepped into the role of PROTECTING these young men whose own families, ie fathers, abandoned them. He asked to be a mentor to them, and ended up abusing not only them but his role as a man and surrogate father. He will get what he deserves in this life or the next.

3. Children of abuse statistically either become champions for the cause if they deal with it, or abusers themselves if they do not. The vast majority of child abusers were abused themselves. It's not really genetics, its mostly environment. They may be more genetically predisposed because one of their parents was an abuser, but it's a lot more environment triggering that predisposition.

Almost always this is a learned response. They were usually the victim first and learned the behavior that way. It can be changed, but the person has to deal with the wounds that were inflicted on them first. I have worked with some guys who were horribly abused as children and they have come out the other side. However, most had not started to abuse children yet, they commited other serious felonies like dealing drugs and murder. Not many people want to work with convicted child molesters except people who were also abused and have come back from that.

4. Loyalty. People who have never had it, no nothing about it. College football is a loyalty to fans, players, and coaches. If you miss that in this, you are missing a huge piece of the puzzle. People make huge errors in judgement when they cover over the crimes to those they are loyal. Coaching staffs, programs, and teams develop intense loyalty to one another.

Sandusky was Paterno's great friend and comrade. When he heard about this incident, he made a choice to believe in his friend and do the bare minimum to cover his ass. He intentionally looked the other way on the incident based on his own statements to date. What he should have done is confront his friend and find out the truth. Immediately. Great friends do not cover for one another, they hold each other accountable. They confront evil and pursue justice even with their best friends. Great Leaders seek out the problems and deal with them, not sweep them under the rug and pray they are untrue. This is Joe Paterno's greatest failing to me. When faced with a hard problem, he let loyalty get in the way of confronting evil, pursuing justice, and helping the helpless.

I grade character as stepping up in extreme adversity. It is very easy to be high in character in good times, but the real test of a man occurs in times of extreme adversity. When faced with this, Paterno's character failed. He should have been the leader he wanted to be and faced this head on at the time. It was irresponsible to the title he held as Head Coach of PSU. It was shameful as a man and friend. And, it was downright pathetic as a human being.

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 07:21 AM
Which is why PSU should have him immediately step down. Actually, once the grand jury testimony came out, they should have immediately fired him. It seems there is still some "loyalty" and "covering" going on.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:31 AM
What's even worse is the some part of the Students at PSU are supporting this behavior. Wow.

Boobs McGee
11-09-2011, 07:32 AM
Posted in another thread, but JoePa's retirement at the end of the year was announced this morning.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:35 AM
Posted in another thread, but JoePa's retirement at the end of the year was announced this morning.

If they as a school want to put up with that kind of scrutiny...go ahead. I think it's as low class as it gets.

Mediator12
11-09-2011, 07:40 AM
Which is why PSU should have him immediately step down. Actually, once the grand jury testimony came out, they should have immediately fired him. It seems there is still some "loyalty" and "covering" going on.

They can not do it that fast anymore ;D You have to consult the laws, PR people, and Alumni first!

bendog
11-09-2011, 07:40 AM
while there are adult female sexual predators who typically were victims of abuse themselves, I think that generally the female adult survivors tend more to either learn to deal with the trauma of what happened to them, and the fact that they did not deserve it and make life choices to achieve some goal, while others remain victims entering into abusive relationships and suffering from substance abuse

Just that in thinking of the victims and perpetrators, imo the gender makes a bit of a difference in outcome. Males are less likely to be lifelong victims.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:42 AM
Posted in another thread, but JoePa's retirement at the end of the year was announced this morning.

JoePa said thats when he would retire. It's still unclear if the University shares that idea.

MOCRUSH
11-09-2011, 10:02 AM
JoePa said thats when he would retire. It's still unclear if the University shares that idea.

The folks in the cocoon at Perv. State U. are kidding themselves if they let Joe control his exit like this. The home crowd may be tolerant this weekend but Ohio State and Wisconsin fans will be ruthless to Sanctimonious Joe if given a chance.

alkemical
11-09-2011, 10:15 AM
This story has resurfaced:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

Yet as the Sandusky investigation moves forward, questions will be asked anew about why Gricar did not pursue charges against him 13 years ago. A small but strident minority believes Gricar did not want to tackle a case that involved a hometown icon. Others who knew and worked with Gricar say he was a meticulous, independent and tough-minded prosecutor who was unbowed by Penn State, its football program and political pressure in general.

“No one got a bye with Ray,” said Anthony De Boef, who worked as an assistant district attorney under Gricar for five years. “He didn’t care who you were; he had a job to do.”

De Boef said Gricar did not share any information with him about the case in 1998, which involved Sandusky allegedly showering with an 11-year-old boy. Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy’s mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

Still, the circumstances surrounding Gricar’s disappearance prompt many questions.

On April 15, 2005, Gricar, then 59, took the day off. At about 11:30 a.m., he called his girlfriend, Patricia Fornicola, to say he was taking a drive on Route 192. About 12 hours later, she reported him missing.

The next day, Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg, about 50 miles from his home in Bellefonte. Gricar’s cellphone was in the car, but not his laptop, wallet or keys, which were never recovered. Months later, the laptop was found in the Susquehanna River without its hard drive, which was discovered later. It was too damaged to yield any information. On the fourth anniversary of his disappearance, investigators revealed that a search of his home computer yielded a history of Internet searches for phrases like “how to wreck a hard drive,” according to a report at the time in The Centre Daily Times.

When Gricar disappeared helicopters, dive teams and patrol cars were deployed, and the F.B.I. was brought in. Reports of Gricar turning up in Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Maryland and other states proved to be dead ends.

So what happened? Friends and colleagues say Gricar was not the type to walk away. His bank accounts were not touched after he disappeared, he had no other sources of income and he had no major debts, said Robert Buehner Jr., a friend and the district attorney in Montour County. Though divorced twice, he seemed happy with his girlfriend and close with his daughter. Gricar had already announced that he was retiring at the end of his term.

“He was absolutely looking forward to his future,” Buehner said.

bendog
11-09-2011, 10:30 AM
You don't **** with JoePa.

alkemical
11-09-2011, 10:32 AM
You don't **** with JoePa.

To be fair: Nobody up this way is 'pointing fingers in that direction'. But, it has been "rerun" in the local radio/media circuit.

bendog
11-09-2011, 10:36 AM
I was joking, but imo he's fair game. Penn State actively covered up this guy repeatedly raping kids because they didn't want to taint the sainted image of JoePa's program, and JoePa himself looked the other way. He's no better than one of those catholic bishops who rotated pedophiles to one parish after another.

alkemical
11-09-2011, 10:39 AM
I was joking, but imo he's fair game. Penn State actively covered up this guy repeatedly raping kids because they didn't want to taint the sainted image of JoePa's program, and JoePa himself looked the other way. He's no better than one of those catholic bishops who rotated pedophiles to one parish after another.

In agreement there.

Mountain Bronco
11-09-2011, 10:44 AM
Sandusky was Paterno's great friend and comrade. When he heard about this incident, he made a choice to believe in his friend and do the bare minimum to cover his ass. He intentionally looked the other way on the incident based on his own statements to date. What he should have done is confront his friend and find out the truth. Immediately. Great friends do not cover for one another, they hold each other accountable. They confront evil and pursue justice even with their best friends. Great Leaders seek out the problems and deal with them, not sweep them under the rug and pray they are untrue. This is Joe Paterno's greatest failing to me. When faced with a hard problem, he let loyalty get in the way of confronting evil, pursuing justice, and helping the helpless.

I grade character as stepping up in extreme adversity. It is very easy to be high in character in good times, but the real test of a man occurs in times of extreme adversity. When faced with this, Paterno's character failed. He should have been the leader he wanted to be and faced this head on at the time. It was irresponsible to the title he held as Head Coach of PSU. It was shameful as a man and friend. And, it was downright pathetic as a human being.

This is a very good way to analyze the situation and I complete agree with you.

Mountain Bronco
11-09-2011, 10:48 AM
The folks in the cocoon at Perv. State U. are kidding themselves if they let Joe control his exit like this. The home crowd may be tolerant this weekend but Ohio State and Wisconsin fans will be ruthless to Sanctimonious Joe if given a chance.

And rightfully so IMO. Keep it classy, but let him know that he is a disgrace (tough to reconcile those objectives but it can be done).

bendog
11-09-2011, 10:50 AM
A PSU football coach took his troubles to a psychiatrist. "Doctor, you must help me," he pleaded. "It's gotten so that every time I go scouting high school players, I meet a nice kid and end up in bed with him. And then afterward, I feel guilty and depressed for a week."

"I see," nodded the psychiatrist. "And you, no doubt, want me to strengthen your will power and resolve in this matter."

"For God's sake, NO!" exclaimed the PSU coach. "I want you to fix it so I won't feel guilty and depressed afterward."

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 10:57 AM
This story has resurfaced:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

Yet as the Sandusky investigation moves forward, questions will be asked anew about why Gricar did not pursue charges against him 13 years ago. A small but strident minority believes Gricar did not want to tackle a case that involved a hometown icon. Others who knew and worked with Gricar say he was a meticulous, independent and tough-minded prosecutor who was unbowed by Penn State, its football program and political pressure in general.

“No one got a bye with Ray,” said Anthony De Boef, who worked as an assistant district attorney under Gricar for five years. “He didn’t care who you were; he had a job to do.”

De Boef said Gricar did not share any information with him about the case in 1998, which involved Sandusky allegedly showering with an 11-year-old boy. Gricar, he said, reviewed the police reports in private including, presumably, notes or recordings of two conversations that the police heard between Sandusky and the boy’s mother. But Gricar had a reputation for thoroughness, and if he thought he had enough to charge Sandusky, he would have, De Boef and other lawyers said.

Still, the circumstances surrounding Gricar’s disappearance prompt many questions.

On April 15, 2005, Gricar, then 59, took the day off. At about 11:30 a.m., he called his girlfriend, Patricia Fornicola, to say he was taking a drive on Route 192. About 12 hours later, she reported him missing.

The next day, Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found in a parking lot in Lewisburg, about 50 miles from his home in Bellefonte. Gricar’s cellphone was in the car, but not his laptop, wallet or keys, which were never recovered. Months later, the laptop was found in the Susquehanna River without its hard drive, which was discovered later. It was too damaged to yield any information. On the fourth anniversary of his disappearance, investigators revealed that a search of his home computer yielded a history of Internet searches for phrases like “how to wreck a hard drive,” according to a report at the time in The Centre Daily Times.

When Gricar disappeared helicopters, dive teams and patrol cars were deployed, and the F.B.I. was brought in. Reports of Gricar turning up in Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Maryland and other states proved to be dead ends.

So what happened? Friends and colleagues say Gricar was not the type to walk away. His bank accounts were not touched after he disappeared, he had no other sources of income and he had no major debts, said Robert Buehner Jr., a friend and the district attorney in Montour County. Though divorced twice, he seemed happy with his girlfriend and close with his daughter. Gricar had already announced that he was retiring at the end of his term.

“He was absolutely looking forward to his future,” Buehner said.

That's some bizarre ****.

ColoradoDarin
11-09-2011, 11:04 AM
If I'm the NCAA, PSU gets worse than what SMU got, they only paid adults to play football. Penn State was allowing a coach to systematically rape young boys. Shut down their entire football program (allow everyone to transfer without sitting out a year) and vacate all wins when Sandusky was coaching. Ask again in 5 years if they can restart their football program.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 11:14 AM
What's killing me in addition to all this is the former Penn State players saying they are going to support Paterno on the sideline on Saturday...GTFO.

bendog
11-09-2011, 11:15 AM
houston nutt got the axe last week. the ncaa should make penn state take him and the entire staff.

strafen
11-09-2011, 12:18 PM
houston nutt got the axe last week. the ncaa should make penn state take him and the entire staff.Better yet, they all need to go from Penn State to the State Penn

DBroncos4life
11-09-2011, 12:24 PM
What's killing me in addition to all this is the former Penn State players saying they are going to support Paterno on the sideline on Saturday...GTFO.

I wish this game wasn't against NU this week.

Mountain Bronco
11-09-2011, 12:55 PM
What's killing me in addition to all this is the former Penn State players saying they are going to support Paterno on the sideline on Saturday...GTFO.

It just shows how powerful these programs are. What a shame.

Rock Chalk
11-09-2011, 01:02 PM
You know what I don't understand?

The GA. How can you see a child being raped and your blood not boil to the point of incontrollable rage and beat the rapist until he is completely dead? There would have been no need for police had I walked in and saw a child being raped. Justice would have been served right then and there and Sandusky would never have hurt another child ever again.

Yet this GA, runs home and tells his dad? WHat? I cannot possibly fathom how any human being could witness such an event and not become absolutely and totally consumed with rage.

That One Guy
11-09-2011, 01:05 PM
You know what I don't understand?

The GA. How can you see a child being raped and your blood not boil to the point of incontrollable rage and beat the rapist until he is completely dead? There would have been no need for police had I walked in and saw a child being raped. Justice would have been served right then and there and Sandusky would never have hurt another child ever again.

Yet this GA, runs home and tells his dad? WHat? I cannot possibly fathom how any human being could witness such an event and not become absolutely and totally consumed with rage.

I don't understand how there's not a law that makes it a legal requirement for ANYONE that knows of abuse of a child to report it. The GA should be in shackles with every single person he told that didn't report it to police. Likewise with the priest thing, every single person there should be shackled up too. "I told my supervisor" should not suffice for anyone.

BroncoBeavis
11-09-2011, 01:08 PM
You know what I don't understand?

The GA. How can you see a child being raped and your blood not boil to the point of incontrollable rage and beat the rapist until he is completely dead? There would have been no need for police had I walked in and saw a child being raped. Justice would have been served right then and there and Sandusky would never have hurt another child ever again.

Yet this GA, runs home and tells his dad? WHat? I cannot possibly fathom how any human being could witness such an event and not become absolutely and totally consumed with rage.

Didn't I read that the guy who walked in on this was now an assistant coach with the program. Maybe that was the reward for not rocking the boat. All these creeps should do time.

Rock Chalk
11-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Didn't I read that the guy who walked in on this was now an assistant coach with the program. Maybe that was the reward for not rocking the boat. All these creeps should do time.

I still don't understand at all how a human being can witness the rape of a child and be thinking of anything other than "kill that mother ****er"

DomCasual
11-09-2011, 01:40 PM
You know what I don't understand?

The GA. How can you see a child being raped and your blood not boil to the point of incontrollable rage and beat the rapist until he is completely dead? There would have been no need for police had I walked in and saw a child being raped. Justice would have been served right then and there and Sandusky would never have hurt another child ever again.

Yet this GA, runs home and tells his dad? WHat? I cannot possibly fathom how any human being could witness such an event and not become absolutely and totally consumed with rage.

That is pretty disconcerting. He could have been a hero in all of this.

I can maybe understand him not doing much initially. He's young and inexperienced, and he was probably shocked and scared to death. But you would have thought that after he witnessed the whole thing apparently stalling, he would have pushed it more. His dad is guilty of the same thing.

The other thing is that it's difficult to imagine misinterpreting what he saw. There's no way it was just two people wrestling around - not naked, in the shower. There's no way it was consensual - there is no such thing as consensual sex with a child. What he saw was clearly the rape of a child - there is no other way to interpret it.

Sandusky must have had sleepless nights after that, wondering when he was going to have police showing up at his door to put him in handcuffs.

orinjkrush
11-09-2011, 01:41 PM
This is a great thought Dom. It's really risky in this environment of either/or mentality though ;D

1. People are complicated, but we absolutely try to stereotype and simplify them for our own protection. People are perceived to be as good as their first impression minus their worst known behaviors. Now, Sandusky will be labeled as a child molester for the rest of his life. Period. Once labeled....

2. Judgement on this is not that complicated to me. He was going to be held to much higher standards being a coach and a volunteer for at risk boys. He voluntarily stepped into the role of PROTECTING these young men whose own families, ie fathers, abandoned them. He asked to be a mentor to them, and ended up abusing not only them but his role as a man and surrogate father. He will get what he deserves in this life or the next.

3. Children of abuse statistically either become champions for the cause if they deal with it, or abusers themselves if they do not. The vast majority of child abusers were abused themselves. It's not really genetics, its mostly environment. They may be more genetically predisposed because one of their parents was an abuser, but it's a lot more environment triggering that predisposition.

Almost always this is a learned response. They were usually the victim first and learned the behavior that way. It can be changed, but the person has to deal with the wounds that were inflicted on them first. I have worked with some guys who were horribly abused as children and they have come out the other side. However, most had not started to abuse children yet, they commited other serious felonies like dealing drugs and murder. Not many people want to work with convicted child molesters except people who were also abused and have come back from that.

4. Loyalty. People who have never had it, no nothing about it. College football is a loyalty to fans, players, and coaches. If you miss that in this, you are missing a huge piece of the puzzle. People make huge errors in judgement when they cover over the crimes to those they are loyal. Coaching staffs, programs, and teams develop intense loyalty to one another.

Sandusky was Paterno's great friend and comrade. When he heard about this incident, he made a choice to believe in his friend and do the bare minimum to cover his ass. He intentionally looked the other way on the incident based on his own statements to date. What he should have done is confront his friend and find out the truth. Immediately. Great friends do not cover for one another, they hold each other accountable. They confront evil and pursue justice even with their best friends. Great Leaders seek out the problems and deal with them, not sweep them under the rug and pray they are untrue. This is Joe Paterno's greatest failing to me. When faced with a hard problem, he let loyalty get in the way of confronting evil, pursuing justice, and helping the helpless.

I grade character as stepping up in extreme adversity. It is very easy to be high in character in good times, but the real test of a man occurs in times of extreme adversity. When faced with this, Paterno's character failed. He should have been the leader he wanted to be and faced this head on at the time. It was irresponsible to the title he held as Head Coach of PSU. It was shameful as a man and friend. And, it was downright pathetic as a human being.

amen. one of the best posts on the Mane in over 2 years.:thumbs:

JoPa can take the moral high ground now. He should admit responsibility for failing in his duties express deep remorse and step down immediately.

Mediator12
11-09-2011, 01:50 PM
It just shows how powerful these programs are. What a shame.

Loyalty.

People do not understand how deep it runs in these programs and in life. I have no doubt Paterno was a great influence on these men's lives. However, he let them all down with his actions on this and they should not stand with him now. He should have been able to end it all right there when he had the chance.

Forgive him, sure. Stand with him in disgrace and dishonor, no way. I know my brothers would condemn my actions if I did this. Loyalty can not excuse the self serving and evil behaviors of my brothers.

bendog
11-09-2011, 01:51 PM
Well the irony is that JoePa put his program (and his legacy) above the welfare of more than one kid he had reason to suspect was being raped. I don't think there's any doubt JoePa loves Penn St as well as his program, but he's going to resign in personal disgrace, and the Univ president will be shown the door. And the alumni who still support these guys are outed as the sociopaths they are, and the division in the fan base is going to make JoePa's successor's job a living hell. Nobody replaces a legend, but this program is gonna tear itself apart. Fitting.

Kid A
11-09-2011, 02:00 PM
I wish this game wasn't against NU this week.

Feeling a little nauseous thinking about sitting through 3 hours of a game that will be completely dominated by this sordid story. I've seen a couple commentators suggest they cancel/forfeit the game altogether. While I'd hate to see that happen to the Penn St players on what was supposed to be their Senior Day, it's hard to see how the game can serve even as a pleasant distraction from this horror show when two of the key/controversial figures are coaching in it. Ugh.

DBroncos4life
11-09-2011, 02:06 PM
Feeling a little nauseous thinking about sitting through 3 hours of a game that will be completely dominated by this sordid story. I've seen a couple commentators suggest they cancel/forfeit the game altogether. While I'd hate to see that happen to the Penn St players on what was supposed to be their Senior Day, it's hard to see how the game can serve even as a pleasant distraction from this horror show when two of the key/controversial figures are coaching in it. Ugh.

I couldn't agree more. Only thing I will add is I hope the NU fans treat this with class.

bendog
11-09-2011, 02:20 PM
yeah, JoePa showing true colors. He's done a lot of good, but at the edn of the day it is all about him. It's not like he actually coaches, so it's not like the team needs him. He should step down and let his players have the rest of the year without him as a distraction. He's just trying to salvage a little bit of legacy.

2KBack
11-09-2011, 02:28 PM
I still don't understand at all how a human being can witness the rape of a child and be thinking of anything other than "kill that mother ****er"

That coach was mentored by Sandusky as a child as well. It is completely possible that he had his own encounters with the man as a child, and seeing that triggered a pretty intense flight response.

that is pure speculation of course...but we only know so much

Rohirrim
11-09-2011, 02:28 PM
You know what I don't understand?

The GA. How can you see a child being raped and your blood not boil to the point of incontrollable rage and beat the rapist until he is completely dead? There would have been no need for police had I walked in and saw a child being raped. Justice would have been served right then and there and Sandusky would never have hurt another child ever again.

Yet this GA, runs home and tells his dad? WHat? I cannot possibly fathom how any human being could witness such an event and not become absolutely and totally consumed with rage.

I had the same question.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 03:01 PM
When you look at the chain of events...they knew it was going on in 1998.

bombay
11-09-2011, 03:07 PM
Paterno's obese kid seems to be reveling in the attention he's getting. Bizarre.

DomCasual
11-09-2011, 03:43 PM
Paterno's obese kid seems to be reveling in the attention he's getting. Bizarre.

I know. It's a little odd.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-09-2011, 03:57 PM
You know what I don't understand?

The GA. How can you see a child being raped and your blood not boil to the point of incontrollable rage and beat the rapist until he is completely dead? There would have been no need for police had I walked in and saw a child being raped. Justice would have been served right then and there and Sandusky would never have hurt another child ever again.

Yet this GA, runs home and tells his dad? WHat? I cannot possibly fathom how any human being could witness such an event and not become absolutely and totally consumed with rage.

He was a GA, so he was what, 22 or 23 at the time? I'm guessing seeing something like that probably ranks up there with seeing someone murdered, that's not something you'd ever expect to see and was in shock.

People legitimately witness this stuff and even after time still aren't completely sure what they exactly saw and still can't believe what they walked in on. It's not a defense of him or what he did, but it happens. Some people just react differently.

His father is the one that I don't understand. We all made mistakes when we were in our early 20's (probably no where near that magnitude), but I can't believe that the guy's father never thought to report this to police. He's the one that should know better.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 04:05 PM
He was a GA, so he was what, 22 or 23 at the time? I'm guessing seeing something like that probably ranks up there with seeing someone murdered, that's not something you'd ever expect to see and was in shock.

People legitimately witness this stuff and even after time still aren't completely sure what they exactly saw and still can't believe what they walked in on. It's not a defense of him of what he did, but it happens. Some people just react differently.

His father is the one that I don't understand. We all made mistakes when we were in our early 20's (probably no where near that magnitude), but I can't believe that the guy's father never thought to report this to police. He's the one that should know better.

He was 24 I believe.

I don't have a problem calling his Dad. They should have called the police. Especially since the GA's dad is a medical professional.

broncogary
11-09-2011, 04:45 PM
He was a GA, so he was what, 22 or 23 at the time? I'm guessing seeing something like that probably ranks up there with seeing someone murdered, that's not something you'd ever expect to see and was in shock.

People legitimately witness this stuff and even after time still aren't completely sure what they exactly saw and still can't believe what they walked in on. It's not a defense of him or what he did, but it happens. Some people just react differently.

His father is the one that I don't understand. We all made mistakes when we were in our early 20's (probably no where near that magnitude), but I can't believe that the guy's father never thought to report this to police. He's the one that should know better.

It's the hillbilly lifestyle.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 06:56 PM
PSU board of people are about to get their press conference on.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:00 PM
Rumor is JoePa has coached his last game at PSU.

GreatBronco16
11-09-2011, 07:21 PM
Being reported that Joe and the Pres have been fired.

houghtam
11-09-2011, 07:21 PM
Rumor is JoePa has coached his last game at PSU.

Yep, he's gone.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7214380/joe-paterno-president-graham-spanier-penn-state

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:23 PM
It was the right thing to do.

I see on a few PSU blogs that some are threatening to riot. Or saying the students will. They seem to be thinking that not all the facts are out. They don't get it right now.

Bronx33
11-09-2011, 07:28 PM
I still don't understand at all how a human being can witness the rape of a child and be thinking of anything other than "kill that mother ****er"

This........ it fries my a** thinking about it.

extralife
11-09-2011, 07:36 PM
it's easy to pretend you are a hero in your own head. you have no idea what you'd actually do in that situation. nice try though

Kid A
11-09-2011, 07:38 PM
It was the right thing to do.

I see on a few PSU blogs that some are threatening to riot. Or saying the students will. They seem to be thinking that not all the facts are out. They don't get it right now.

The PSU boards I've seen are 95% angry about this, arguing that they fired him before "the facts" were determined.

Their love for the man and his legacy is understandably blinding them to some obvious facts: primarily, when a cluster**** of this magnitude threatens an entire university's reputation, the heads at the top of the totem poll must roll. What he was or was not told by that GA is beside the point - he did not pursue the allegations as far as most the country deemed his moral obligation.

Allowing him to be the face of the program for 4-5 more games on national television this season would have sent the worst kind of message if PSU wants to be serious about correcting these wrongs, showing remorse for allowing them to happen.

This BOT press conference is insane too. Like every reporter allowed to ask questions seems to be a pissed off Paterno fan from the student paper? A lot of respect for the board members following through with their convictions, despite the hate sure to come their way.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:44 PM
Now there are some rumors of rioting. Wow. It just got way worse. The ego maniac should have resigned today. Now that would be on his hands too.

ohiobronco2
11-09-2011, 07:55 PM
The press conference was unreal. Must have been a lot of student journalists there.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 08:17 PM
Kids seem to be calm. They are just blown away.

El Jué
11-09-2011, 08:41 PM
The problem, Joe, is that what happens in the locker room shouldn't always stay in the locker room. Some things are just a little too important for that. Children were being raped, Joe.

I loved what I thought you stood for, but it turns out that you were willing to stand by for more than I ever imagined.

Damn, Joe. You had all the power in the world at your disposal. You could have stopped this evil. What the hell were you thinking?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-09-2011, 08:47 PM
I still don't understand at all how a human being can witness the rape of a child and be thinking of anything other than "kill that mother ****er"

Because I think your first reaction would be utter shock. Not thinking clearly

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 08:49 PM
Because I think your first reaction would be utter shock. Not thinking clearly

Him personally?

I know we've been doing "projecting" joke....but that actually is projection. :P

bigbucks24
11-09-2011, 09:16 PM
The problem, Joe, is that what happens in the locker room shouldn't always stay in the locker room. Some things are just a little too important for that. Children were being raped, Joe.

I loved what I thought you stood for, but it turns out that you were willing to stand by for more than I ever imagined.

Damn, Joe. You had all the power in the world at your disposal. You could have stopped this evil. What the hell were you thinking?

Well said. Mind if I use that for my sig?

TDmvp
11-09-2011, 09:20 PM
Because I think your first reaction would be utter shock. Not thinking clearly



I think a lot of people would go from shock to rage in about 1.5 seconds tho in this scenario...

El Jué
11-09-2011, 09:20 PM
Mind if I use that for my sig?

It's yours, man.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:23 PM
Rioting going on and the police are rolling. Just disgraceful.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:24 PM
They destroyed a news van. Flipped it over.

TDmvp
11-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Boy you're right Garcia , they are going full on retarded.

schaaf
11-09-2011, 09:34 PM
Boy you're right Garcia , they are going full on retarded.

Macgruder level???

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:35 PM
Remember when our parents where concerned about the fact that one day our generation would run things. OMG.

TDmvp
11-09-2011, 09:35 PM
Macgruder level???


Yea , in ways...

bigbucks24
11-09-2011, 09:36 PM
Send in MacGruder to reason with them? That will leave the speechless.

TDmvp
11-09-2011, 09:38 PM
Remember when our parents where concerned about the fact that one day our generation would run things. OMG.

Laf ... I think we are the same age ...

And yes I remember my parents saying that and now that I'm 36 I notice most everyone I knew from school are just total tools. Reality show loven , no news watching , uninformed bricks basically.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:41 PM
Watch these kids on ESPN...they can't form a coherent thought and present it.

TDmvp
11-09-2011, 09:42 PM
Watch these kids on ESPN...they can't form a coherent thought and and present it.


Yea , I have been ... It's bad.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:44 PM
Yea , I have been ... It's bad.

That tells me it's a bunch of freshmen.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-09-2011, 10:36 PM
I think a lot of people would go from shock to rage in about 1.5 seconds tho in this scenario...

I dont know about that. Now, if i walked into the room and someone told me "hey, Sandusky is ****in some kid, what should we do" Then I'd walk in with rage and wanna kill him.

Ive thought about this alot. I work for News Corp. Lets say I walked into the bathroom on a normal day to take a piss...and suddenly saw Rupert Murdoch having sex with some young boy. I think my first reaction would be utter shock, following by revulsion, followed quickly my complete confusion simply because its 1) the last thing I thought I'd ever see and 2) its arguably the worst thing a human can see. So while its easy to say we'd all go and beat his ass, the brain/body does some strange **** when you go into shock.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 10:38 PM
I dont know about that. Now, if i walked into the room and someone told me "hey, Sandusky is ****in some kid, what should we do" Then I'd walk in with rage and wanna kill him.

Ive thought about this alot. I work for News Corp. Lets say I walked into the bathroom on a normal day to take a piss...and suddenly saw Rupert Murdoch having sex with some young boy. I think my first reaction would be utter shock, following by revulsion, followed quickly my complete confusion simply because its 1) the last thing I thought I'd ever see and 2) its arguably the worst thing a human can see. So while its easy to say we'd all go and beat his ass, the brain/body does some strange **** when you go into shock.

Yes...it's called fight or flight.

hookemhess
11-09-2011, 10:40 PM
Watch these kids on ESPN...they can't form a coherent thought and present it.

This is the only clip I saw: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7214785 and the complete ignorance of the last student baffles me.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 10:49 PM
This is the only clip I saw: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7214785 and the complete ignorance of the last student baffles me.

Good news is that's they same idiot I saw.

24champ
11-09-2011, 10:58 PM
Is McQueary canned as well?

hookemhess
11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
This whole thing fills me with such rage. And people saying, "Oh, it's a sad day for Paterno." **** that. Tenure and folklore doesn't provide immunity. I don't care who he reported what to -- if he was told of allegations regarding Person A having alleged sexual contact with Child B, and Person A was still visiting the athletic facilities as late as last week, he deserves to be fired with shame. And these ****ing idiots saying he should have been able to go out on his own accord -- SURE, HE SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED TODAY.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 11:08 PM
Is McQueary canned as well?

No. They said that they have not decided his status. I think we're going to find he's covered under the whistle blower laws. But I doubt he says after this season.

hookemhess
11-09-2011, 11:10 PM
No. They said that they have not decided his status. I think we're going to find he's covered under the whistle blower laws. But I doubt he says after this season.

And good luck getting another job. Dumb ****.

cutthemdown
11-10-2011, 02:30 AM
All of the people who knew about the rape and did not report it to police IMO should be held accountable. Outrageous behavior and he not only deserves to be fired, but should lose his whole pension and go to prison for it. When you cover up a child rape you are guilty of rape as well IMO.

orinjkrush
11-10-2011, 05:47 AM
Now JoPa has unwittingly brought MORE disgrace upon the University (student riots) by not stepping down IMMEDIATELY. (Maybe there were some legal culpability issues in doing so, I don't know.)

Seems like he chose UNWISELY yet again. Am ashamed of him but glad the Board had the cajones to can him IMMEDIATELY.

JoPA should have admited a failure of leadership on his watch, expressed deep horror and remorse and stepped down immediately.

alkemical
11-10-2011, 05:50 AM
No. They said that they have not decided his status. I think we're going to find he's covered under the whistle blower laws. But I doubt he says after this season.

Ironic...

alkemical
11-10-2011, 05:54 AM
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/pedo_statue_paterno_1.jpg

Mediator12
11-10-2011, 06:01 AM
I dont know about that. Now, if i walked into the room and someone told me "hey, Sandusky is ****in some kid, what should we do" Then I'd walk in with rage and wanna kill him.

Ive thought about this alot. I work for News Corp. Lets say I walked into the bathroom on a normal day to take a piss...and suddenly saw Rupert Murdoch having sex with some young boy. I think my first reaction would be utter shock, following by revulsion, followed quickly my complete confusion simply because its 1) the last thing I thought I'd ever see and 2) its arguably the worst thing a human can see. So while its easy to say we'd all go and beat his ass, the brain/body does some strange **** when you go into shock.

Everyone is different. People will respond to shock how they are wired and it just depends on how you view this particular event. I have had a lot of trauma in my own life and I can only state how I would react. I have serious justice issues ;D I would have stopped it and probably have assaulted the guy in the process. I would have made sure he went to prison by testifying against him too.

However, eventually shock wears off and then reality sets in. It's what McQueary did after the shock wore off that is concerning to me. He went Loyalty because that was more important than justice to him. That is the main issue to me.

If my buddy has a weapon at work, I am not going to call the boss and ask him to report it to authorities and take care of it. That is totally passing the buck and not being personally responsible. I am calling 911 and making sure he does not use the weapon until they get there. Why are the standards of these men so LOW? It kills me how selfish and irresponsible the men in this program with HONOR actually were when they needed Honor! Honor does not show up in good times, it shows up when the chips are down.

BroncosSR
11-10-2011, 06:03 AM
No. They said that they have not decided his status. I think we're going to find he's covered under the whistle blower laws. But I doubt he says after this season.



What do you mean? This situation all started by one of the victims coming forward and has nothing to do with McQueary. He didn't do any whistle blowing.

alkemical
11-10-2011, 06:08 AM
What do you mean? This situation all started by one of the victims coming forward and has nothing to do with McQueary. He did no whistle blowing.

Look, i know I quoted it - so i don't know how you missed it:

No. They said that they have not decided his status. I think we're going to find he's covered under the whistle blower laws. But I doubt he says after this season.


So, i find it ironic that an individual could be considered protected under the whistleblower status, when he didn't really do anything (well, minus him "following internal protocol, and his daddy).


Apologies for being concise.

Mediator12
11-10-2011, 06:08 AM
What do you mean? This situation all started by one of the victims coming forward and has nothing to do with McQueary. He did no whistle blowing.

Legally he is protected, just like Paterno by reporting it to his superiors. He did report the event on the record. He did just enough. Just like so many men would today.

However, the injustice is not that he did the bare minimums to protect himself, its that he did not report it to the police himself like he should have. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life and he will always be the man who did not "man up" when he had his chance. I could not live that way. I would be wrecked if I did nothing to save that kid and the others that would follow.

Garcia Bronco
11-10-2011, 06:31 AM
Look, i know I quoted it - so i don't know how you missed it:




So, i find it ironic that an individual could be considered protected under the whistleblower status, when he didn't really do anything (well, minus him "following internal protocol, and his daddy).


Apologies for being concise.

I think the University needs to be sure they can legally let him go.

They've lost institutional control, the are about to crawled over by the DOE, FBI, and the NCAA. They need to proceed cautiously. Anyone who had any notion of Paterno coaching this weekend was fooling themselves.

Rock Chalk
11-10-2011, 06:38 AM
He was a GA, so he was what, 22 or 23 at the time? I'm guessing seeing something like that probably ranks up there with seeing someone murdered, that's not something you'd ever expect to see and was in shock.

People legitimately witness this stuff and even after time still aren't completely sure what they exactly saw and still can't believe what they walked in on. It's not a defense of him or what he did, but it happens. Some people just react differently.

His father is the one that I don't understand. We all made mistakes when we were in our early 20's (probably no where near that magnitude), but I can't believe that the guy's father never thought to report this to police. He's the one that should know better.

This is a fair point. One of my friends was shot and killed in front of me when I was 23. I of course ran, but you know, I didn't have a gun to shoot back with. And I do speak now from the perspective of being a father.

Still, I find it difficult to understand how he could have just went and called dad. If I were not capable of beating said rapists skull in, then the first phone call I make is the police.

Now I understand that ALL of this could have been prevented in 1998 when Sandusky was first caught doing inappropriate things but the Department of Public Welfare did not press charges even though they found him guilty of SHOWERING with an 11 year old boy and hugging him.

This is the first and most grievous failure in my opinion. In a long list of consecutive failures, this was the most egregious. Sandusky should have been charged with some sort of felony for that event and thus prevented from being around children in The Second Mile and forbidden access to the University. But because the Department of Public Welfare in 1998 decided NOT to pursue criminal charges, this ****ing sick pervert was allowed to continue being a sick pervert. He was not banned from the University and was not immediately fired from The Second Mile.

The justice system failed us in 1998 which led to a series of very poorly crafted decisions by a great many people.

Joe Paterno made a costly and fateful mistake. He deserves this punishment he received. I am still saddened though, not because of his glaring mistake, but because an icon many of us grew up admiring for his integrity and his moral high ground, has fallen due to a loss of that integrity and moral high ground.

And all this discussion about who to blame and where the fault truly lies are overlooking the true villain here. Sandusky has a spot reserved for him in the deepest recesses of hell.

Rohirrim
11-10-2011, 06:53 AM
Too bad it's the kids that get lost in all of this. Just like the Catholic church. I still can't believe Paterno did what he did. Or didn't do, I guess is the way to put it. He probably deserves a harsher penalty than just being fired. So does McQueary, who I guess is suffering no penalty at all.

It's a lesson to us all in America: Stand up against injustice no matter the cost and you won't have to spend years playing cover your ass. What's the old saying? A brave man dies only once, but a coward dies a thousand deaths.

TheReverend
11-10-2011, 06:56 AM
Girlfriend brought up a decent point yesterday. She used to work child abuse cases with some of the more disturbing stuff you've ever heard of (a lady pouring ketchup in her kids butt to try and claim her landlord was molesting her son, etc) and she says usually the older generation (70+) generally refuses to believe it. They just come from a time where people weren't on the lookout for things like that and even when confronted with it (that say, their kids were molesting their grand kids or something along those lines) that often times they just don't believe that could happen.

Either way, I'm EXTREMELY saddened and disgusted by this entire thing.

alkemical
11-10-2011, 07:00 AM
I think the University needs to be sure they can legally let him go.

They've lost institutional control, the are about to crawled over by the DOE, FBI, and the NCAA. They need to proceed cautiously. Anyone who had any notion of Paterno coaching this weekend was fooling themselves.

Totally agreed there. Since this is only about 1hr ish from me - it's all over the local papers & radio (sports & talk).

http://www.whp580.com/

afternoon show and morning shows are the local (the rest is purchased content).

WolfpackGuy
11-10-2011, 07:18 AM
Damn, a couple PSU alums I know are saying a solid rumor is going around Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors!

WTF?

Apparently, this is on the deep down low...

bendog
11-10-2011, 07:26 AM
imo this guy has it right. It's a culture, and even jr high and high school programs have it to one degree or another. A team is family and you never rat out your family because the family is bigger and more important than any individual.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/article1200905.ece

women get assaulted in dorms all the time. Rapesburger acted like he did because he could get away with it. Sociopaths make up over 10% of the population, most likely. The team concept is that the coach is like God. He acts in the best interest of the team. Some coaches, the best ones, are like teachers. Winning is about producing people who will be good citizens. Others are about winning games and satisfying alumni who give money.

alkemical
11-10-2011, 07:30 AM
Damn, a couple PSU alums I know are saying a solid rumor is going around Sandusky was pimping out kids to rich donors!

WTF?

Apparently, this is on the deep down low...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html?_r=1


This is also a blast from another incident involving "pimping kids to rich donors":

http://franklinscandal.com/franklinscandal_boystown2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations



http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k82/amesj523/imagesqtbnANd9GcRVKbf7z3oHzn4hGnr6t.jpg