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epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 11:40 PM
...specifically the Tebow-McGahee Run Option. The reason why the Broncos didn't throw the ball down the stretch of this game is because they tried to salt it away and run out the clock, but they just kept gashing the Raiders over and over again with the run option plays.

Here are the results:

1st half:
McGahee 1 yard
Tebow 32 yards
Tebow 8 yards
McGahee 2 yards
McGahee 3 yards

2nd half (most of which came in the late 3rd/4th quarter):
McGahee 4 yards
McGahee 3 yards
McGahee 2 yards
McGahee 60 yards, TD
McGahee 6 yards
Ball 1 yard
McGahee 8 yards
Tebow 28 yards----this and the following play were in succession---
McGahee 17 yards
McGahee 3 yards
McGahee 24 yards TD



Totals:

Total Yards from Run Option - 202
Tebow yards: 68
McGahee yards: 133

Total Carries: 16
Tebow carries 3
McGahee carries: 12
Ball carries: 1

Tebow avg. per carry: 22.7
McGahee avg. per carry: 11.1



---notes---
-Moreno and Ball each received carries in this set, with Moreno's 1-yard gain negated by a holding penalty
-other successful runs from this set were negated by holding penalties (including a Clady hold that negated another good McGahee gain)



--observations--
-Tebow only carried the ball 3 times from this set, which pretty much closes the book on the "the Broncos ran Tebow too much from that set" myth
-McGahee was the primary ball carrier from this set
-This set really confused the Raiders at all levels of the defense, especially the middle linebacker, the ends (including Jarvis Moss), and the safeties.
-This set was a generator for big plays...it created plays of 60, 32, 28, 24, and 17 yards.
-The set was run without penalty 16 times and resulted in 5 big plays and 2 touchdowns...thats a remarkable result.


*Okay Klis...if you steal this idea and/or this data for one of your Tebow-bashing articles, be sure to credit orangemane.com if you want to show this site the same respect that your site expects.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 01:13 AM
Also not sure if people noticed but Franklin played LG on the big 60 yrd run.

t-diddy
11-08-2011, 01:33 AM
Epic display of rushing. Very interested to see where it goes from here... lots of things they can do out of that look. If Tebow can throw the ball like he did in the second half and beat a blitz or two with a hot read or seam route then this offense could be very difficult to defend.

Jay3
11-08-2011, 03:28 AM
The best thing about about it was to get one epic gashing session on film out of the shotgun. That means that teams in the near future have to respect the run out of the shotgun formation, and that's a better formation for Tebow to pass out of.

Bronco Yoda
11-08-2011, 06:27 AM
Nice thread Drama. Very interesting observation Cut. I hadn't noticed that. I can't wait to see how we build on this. I wish we had a dynamic TE right about now to add to this.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 06:28 AM
Good thread (seriously)

mile7high7
11-08-2011, 06:54 AM
The best thing about about it was to get one epic gashing session on film out of the shotgun. That means that teams in the near future have to respect the run out of the shotgun formation, and that's a better formation for Tebow to pass out of.

Good point, I think thats huge as well. Tebow obviously is more comfortable in the gun, and if we can both run and pass from it, then it opens everything up.

mile7high7
11-08-2011, 07:03 AM
Next week will be an interesting test for this. Obviously KC will be more aware, and prepping for it. Additionally their personnel highlights different strengths in the line, where as the DT's in Oakland are stout, their ends for contain are their weak point (Moss, and Houston).

In KC when they go 4-3, their ends are Tyson Jackson, and Tamba Hali, and if they play 3-4, its Tyson Jackson, and Glenn Dorsey.
Either way we will learn a lot next week.

I do think though that this offense, especially if we can pass out of it, can be functional.
The Wildcat when it was just Miami using it, was a big part of their offense. As the Wildcat spread throughout the league, teams spent more time prepping for it, as they saw it several times a year.

We may be the only team running this for some time (unless Carolina uses it more frequently), and if so, teams will only be practicing defending this 1x, or divisional foes, 2x per year. If KC is unable to stop us (relatively, I'm not expecting 200 yrds rushing from the formation), it may show that one week of practice may not be enough for teams...

We'll see...

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 07:25 AM
KC D line is no where near as stout as Oakland and in the past just plain dumb ! Plummer used to play fake the run and roll out over and over so I
see this running set working well this week again.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2011, 07:48 AM
Like Socal posted in another thread, this same game plan will not work against teams moving forward. What needs to be done now is to add the wrinkles to get defense on their heels.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 07:53 AM
Like Socal posted in another thread, this same game plan will not work against teams moving forward. What needs to be done now is to add the wrinkles to get defense on their heels.

I'm not sure that's the case and I don't think that's what he intended to say. It CAN definitely be stopped, but it can also be improved. The Wildcat was probably referred to as a one time thing when Miami started using it in the NFL.

I expect it to be slowed (and I think that's what Mike meant as teams prepare specifically for it), but here's the important part to ME:

Teams have to respect it every time we go shotgun now. HUGE boon for the Denver offense, imo.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2011, 08:16 AM
I'm not sure that's the case and I don't think that's what he intended to say. It CAN definitely be stopped, but it can also be improved. The Wildcat was probably referred to as a one time thing when Miami started using it in the NFL.

I expect it to be slowed (and I think that's what Mike meant as teams prepare specifically for it), but here's the important part to ME:

Teams have to respect it every time we go shotgun now. HUGE boon for the Denver offense, imo.

I see your point. I think in order for it not to fade out like the wildcat, they have to build on it each week.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 08:25 AM
I see your point. I think in order for it not to fade out like the wildcat, they have to build on it each week.

I think if they build a few passing plays into it they won't need to do as much tinkering :)

Ray Finkle
11-08-2011, 08:35 AM
I think if they build a few passing plays into it they won't need to do as much tinkering :)

I agree, some curls and slants would be deadly....

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 08:39 AM
I agree, some curls and slants would be deadly....

Completely agree. The play works so well because it's so fast. They don't have time to make that read without being ready for it with some proper keys. The more we can give those ends and LBs to process, the more we'll see it continue to go for 7.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2011, 08:47 AM
Completely agree. The play works so well because it's so fast. They don't have time to make that read without being ready for it with some proper keys. The more we can give those ends and LBs to process, the more we'll see it continue to go for 7.

In the future, how do you think defenses defend it? Do they drop another safety in the box to take away another lane and prevent the slant or spread out the defense and zone blitz?

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 08:49 AM
Like Socal posted in another thread, this same game plan will not work against teams moving forward. What needs to be done now is to add the wrinkles to get defense on their heels.

BS it wont. A fake is a fake and human nature is human nature to bite on a fake. New wrinkles are ALWAYS A GOOD THING but it will keep working especially against a terribly undicisplined team like the Chiefs.............

TD4HOF
11-08-2011, 08:53 AM
...specifically the Tebow-McGahee Run Option. The reason why the Broncos didn't throw the ball down the stretch of this game is because they tried to salt it away and run out the clock, but they just kept gashing the Raiders over and over again with the run option plays.

Here are the results:

1st half:
McGahee 1 yard
Tebow 32 yards
Tebow 8 yards
McGahee 2 yards
McGahee 3 yards

2nd half (most of which came in the late 3rd/4th quarter):
McGahee 4 yards
McGahee 3 yards
McGahee 2 yards
McGahee 60 yards, TD
McGahee 6 yards
Ball 1 yard
McGahee 8 yards
Tebow 28 yards----this and the following play were in succession---
McGahee 17 yards
McGahee 3 yards
McGahee 24 yards TD



Totals:

Total Yards from Run Option - 202
Tebow yards: 68
McGahee yards: 133

Total Carries: 16
Tebow carries 3
McGahee carries: 12
Ball carries: 1

Tebow avg. per carry: 22.7
McGahee avg. per carry: 11.1



---notes---
-Moreno and Ball each received carries in this set, with Moreno's 1-yard gain negated by a holding penalty
-other successful runs from this set were negated by holding penalties (including a Clady hold that negated another good McGahee gain)



--observations--
-Tebow only carried the ball 3 times from this set, which pretty much closes the book on the "the Broncos ran Tebow too much from that set" myth
-McGahee was the primary ball carrier from this set
-This set really confused the Raiders at all levels of the defense, especially the middle linebacker, the ends (including Jarvis Moss), and the safeties.
-This set was a generator for big plays...it created plays of 60, 32, 28, 24, and 17 yards.
-The set was run without penalty 16 times and resulted in 5 big plays and 2 touchdowns...thats a remarkable result.


*Okay Klis...if you steal this idea and/or this data for one of your Tebow-bashing articles, be sure to credit orangemane.com if you want to show this site the same respect that your site expects.

That's one of the most bad ass footnotes I've ever seen. *hat tip*

mile7high7
11-08-2011, 09:03 AM
KC D line is no where near as stout as Oakland and in the past just plain dumb ! Plummer used to play fake the run and roll out over and over so I
see this running set working well this week again.

The ends are keys here as well. Obviously on the whole Raiders are more stout against the run with Kelly/Seymour, I do think their ends though (Houston/Moss), are worse than the KC ends, and their reads are important.
But thanks for bringing up Plummer who played against a completely different team to make your point.

ludo21
11-08-2011, 09:04 AM
I think teams will keep a spy on Tebow more now.

Good thing is if it is a run to Mcgahee that takes away a man chasing the ball.

t-diddy
11-08-2011, 09:31 AM
Anything that keeps the defense from being able to pin their ears back and come after Tim is going to be a good thing. This look, and variations off of it, just needs to keep the D on its heels to give Timmy time to set his feet. Anything that buys an extra second or two is going to be huge for getting in an offensive rhythm.

Boobs McGee
11-08-2011, 09:50 AM
absolutely LOVED watching us grind out those yards in the second half. That's exactly the type of football I was expecting (well, I didn't think it would be Timmay and Mcgahee lol) when I heard about Fox's hiring.

Great to see us stuff it down someone's throat and control the game.

ColoradoDarin
11-08-2011, 09:55 AM
If we have a shot at Trent Richardson in the draft, I think we have to take him.

McGahee, Richardson, and Tebow in this offense would be devastating.

TheChamp24
11-08-2011, 10:02 AM
If we have a shot at Trent Richardson in the draft, I think we have to take him.

McGahee, Richardson, and Tebow in this offense would be devastating.

And if we keep Moreno we can go to the "Diamond" Formation OU used last year.
http://smartfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/OU.png

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 10:16 AM
The ends are keys here as well. Obviously on the whole Raiders are more stout against the run with Kelly/Seymour, I do think their ends though (Houston/Moss), are worse than the KC ends, and their reads are important.
But thanks for bringing up Plummer who played against a completely different team to make your point.

Listen up, noob. I see the Chefs play every game because I live there and the point is valid. They are very undisciplined. Don't be a dick..........

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 10:20 AM
I don't really get why the zone read is a "gimmick." It's not the wildcat, its just a run from the shotgun that involves an option. Sure, you could "shut it down," but its hardly the only play we run. And to "shut it down" its going to involve blitzing, so now its up to the broncos to exploit that, which can be done with actually using our TEs (who have some pass catching ability!)

The only reason people are picking on this is because its not normally done. And the reason its not normally done is that 29 other teams in the NFL don't have a QB capable of running it effectively. I'm not sure why the read option is considered something that won't always work, yet a simple handoff isn't. You can easily stop a running team by shoving 9 guys in the box, but obviously that good running team can then open things up with the pass. We can do the same exact thing, its just up to us to execute.

Sure, i don't expect to rack up 298 yards every week, but if thats the bar of success, thats a bit unfair.

mwill07
11-08-2011, 10:22 AM
I see your point. I think in order for it not to fade out like the wildcat, they have to build on it each week.

Well, the difference between this and the wildcat is when the Dolphins went wildcat, the D knew something was up and could adjust... There are only so many wildcat plays, and very few involve the ball in the QB's hand.

This spread-option play out of the shotgun pre-snap looks identical to any other shotgun play...heck, even post snap it's effective because of play-action potential. McGahee run? Tebow keeper? or traditional shotgun passing play?

i think that's the wrinkle we can see out of this... play-action out of shotgun now has to be respected.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 10:24 AM
One thing I've learned from watching the Stanford offense installed by Jim Harbaugh over the last couple of years, when you can consistently get five or six yards on first down, you're going to win a lot of games.

peacepipe
11-08-2011, 10:25 AM
tebow has to be a threat throwing the ball,which he is not.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 10:30 AM
After the game, Tebow mentioned that this set gave the Broncos a "plus-one blocker".

That's a big plus for the offensive line.

By the end of the game, the Oakland defense was absolutely worn out.

Mogulseeker
11-08-2011, 10:33 AM
Epic display of rushing. Very interested to see where it goes from here... lots of things they can do out of that look. If Tebow can throw the ball like he did in the second half and beat a blitz or two with a hot read or seam route then this offense could be very difficult to defend.

Champ was saying that the type of offense Fox is running now would be one of the hardest to defend.

Run the option run... mix in a receiver with that. It will keep the defense honest, and no matter how bad Tebow is at throwing the ball, he'll get two or three wide open receivers down field every game.

I can see Tebow as a potential game changer when it comes the strategizing the offense. Fox was right to start Orton at first in a traditional offense. Now, the possibilities are endless.

Steve Sewell
11-08-2011, 10:38 AM
It's going to be fun punching the Chiefs in the dick this week.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Also worth mentioning is that our Broncos had a grand total of 38 yards in the first meeting with the Raiders; 298 in the second meeting. Incredible.

After the game, Raiders players could not understand what happened to them. Interviews with Richard Seymour and Jarvis Moss revealed that they had prepared for this offense, and that they (in Moss' case) couldn't believe that "this quarterback" beat them like this anyway.

baja
11-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Also worth mentioning is that our Broncos had a grand total of 38 yards in the first meeting with the Raiders; 298 in the second meeting. Incredible.

After the game, Raiders players could not understand what happened to them. Interviews with Richard Seymour and Jarvis Moss revealed that they had prepared for this offense, and that they (in Moss' case) couldn't believe that "this quarterback" beat them like this anyway.

Why did e cut a first round draft pick only to watch him sign and start on another team with a pretty good defense? Our coaches couldn't get production from Moss yet Oakland's coaches have him playing well enough to start for them and if he isn't starting he's on the field a bunch.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 11:04 AM
It's going to be fun punching the Chiefs in the dick this week.

It should be an interesting game for sure.

The Chiefs are getting the league's most-covered story in their building (Tebow) after getting slaughtered by arguably the worst team in the league on their own field.

The Broncos finally had Dumervil show up, Champ had a big game, and the Broncos are building momentum.

This is a real meaningful game at mid-season for the Broncos. That hasn't happened in awhile.

mile7high7
11-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Listen up, noob. I see the Chefs play every game because I live there and the point is valid. They are very undisciplined. Don't be a dick..........

I still don't see how the teams Plummer played against is valid, but that wasnt your main point anyways, and I agree the Raiders run D overall is better than the KC D.

Regardless I think we both agree that this offense has potential, and that we cant just say its a gimmick that has a short shelf life. As someone above mentioned, its a base package. Its not like a Wildcat, where you don't have a QB on the field.
There is every reason to believe that passing out of the gun, which Tebow is most comfortable with, will be easier given that the rush has to respect the fake handoff. Even without play-action, because it is not something they see frequently, when we line up in the gun, they will be "thinking" rather than just rushing up field.

enjolras
11-08-2011, 11:10 AM
Why did e cut a first round draft pick only to watch him sign and start on another team with a pretty good defense? Our coaches couldn't get production from Moss yet Oakland's coaches have him playing well enough to start for them and if he isn't starting he's on the field a bunch.

I'm assuming that says quite a bit about the Raiders DE situation (a position or strength in Denver).

gyldenlove
11-08-2011, 11:12 AM
In the future, how do you think defenses defend it? Do they drop another safety in the box to take away another lane and prevent the slant or spread out the defense and zone blitz?

The thing is, you can defend the run option if you are willing to open up another avenue of attack, by either having the outside linebacker on the backside in contain or having the backside safety come down and play contain, but doing so opens up a lot of passes and some cutback runs. I think it will only be a matter of time before we see this play run as a triple option type play with Tebow pulling the ball back and going downfield, if we get a big play on that the first time we run that variation it will add another layer of difficulty for the defense.

I absolutely agree that one major reason no other team does this is that there is no QB who can consistently grind out those yards on the ground, Vick would really be the only starter who can do it right now but Andy Reid is not going to go for something like this.

chevy369
11-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Next week will be an interesting test for this. Obviously KC will be more aware, and prepping for it. Additionally their personnel highlights different strengths in the line, where as the DT's in Oakland are stout, their ends for contain are their weak point (Moss, and Houston).

In KC when they go 4-3, their ends are Tyson Jackson, and Tamba Hali, and if they play 3-4, its Tyson Jackson, and Glenn Dorsey.
Either way we will learn a lot next week.

I do think though that this offense, especially if we can pass out of it, can be functional.
The Wildcat when it was just Miami using it, was a big part of their offense. As the Wildcat spread throughout the league, teams spent more time prepping for it, as they saw it several times a year.

We may be the only team running this for some time (unless Carolina uses it more frequently), and if so, teams will only be practicing defending this 1x, or divisional foes, 2x per year. If KC is unable to stop us (relatively, I'm not expecting 200 yrds rushing from the formation), it may show that one week of practice may not be enough for teams...

We'll see...


Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey both suck. Tamba Hali is the one to watch out for.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 11:21 AM
The thing is, you can defend the run option if you are willing to open up another avenue of attack, by either having the outside linebacker on the backside in contain or having the backside safety come down and play contain, but doing so opens up a lot of passes and some cutback runs. I think it will only be a matter of time before we see this play run as a triple option type play with Tebow pulling the ball back and going downfield, if we get a big play on that the first time we run that variation it will add another layer of difficulty for the defense.

I absolutely agree that one major reason no other team does this is that there is no QB who can consistently grind out those yards on the ground, Vick would really be the only starter who can do it right now but Andy Reid is not going to go for something like this.

Newton is tough enough to do it as well.

An interesting aside...Tebow has a better record than Newton at this point.

Tebow: 2-1
Newton: 2-6

TonyR
11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
...Vick would really be the only starter who can do it right now but Andy Reid is not going to go for something like this.

I was just going to bring up Vick and you beat me to it. Vick is more explosive than Tebow (and almost every player in the league for that matter), so why wouldn't the Eagles use this?

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 11:38 AM
I was just going to bring up Vick and you beat me to it. Vick is more explosive than Tebow (and almost every player in the league for that matter), so why wouldn't the Eagles use this?

Because Vick is porcelain.

Taco John
11-08-2011, 11:51 AM
tebow has to be a threat throwing the ball,which he is not.

That's not exactly the truth though. While it's true that the volume of his completions is not what you'd be used to in a pro offense, the ones he does complete are very threatening. Look at the two touchdowns to Decker and Royal this week as good examples.

TonyR
11-08-2011, 12:00 PM
Because Vick is porcelain.

That's probably part of it, but can't explain it entirely. Vick is elusive enough to avoid most contact, and the Broncos don't want Tebow getting hit any more regularly than the Eagles want Vick getting hit. There's no good reason for that not to be part of their offense. Maybe it is and I just haven't watched them enough.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 12:05 PM
this guy always has great write ups...this is on the zone read

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-the-zone-read

strafen
11-08-2011, 12:15 PM
Also worth mentioning is that our Broncos had a grand total of 38 yards in the first meeting with the Raiders; 298 in the second meeting. Incredible.

After the game, Raiders players could not understand what happened to them. Interviews with Richard Seymour and Jarvis Moss revealed that they had prepared for this offense, and that they (in Moss' case) couldn't believe that "this quarterback" beat them like this anyway.When the raiders looked at the first two Tebow's starts, they were salivating.
They thought they didn't have to show up and the game was a gimmie.
Well, Tebow is getting better. Tebow is determined to be a QB in the NFL regardless of who say what.
Whether he'll be successful or not, will depend on the opportunities he's given to succeed, but lack of effort will not be a reason that he'd fail...

I think 3 of the next 4 games we've got are on the road. Tough road ahead for Tebow. I think he'll continue to improve and the passing game will be much, much better.
One of the things hurting his accuracy "stats" is the lack of chemistry with his receivers. He will learn the tendencies of the recievers, the timing of the throws and when the WR's break for the ball will be more spot on.

It just takes repetition, and the only way to get better is playing live games, not in practice, as we've found out Tebow plays beeter on Sundays than he practices during the week.

Still, he's got tons of work to do to get to where he needs to be.
We have two games in four days.
We play the chiefs away on Sunday, and the Jets at home on Thursday. :o

strafen
11-08-2011, 12:18 PM
That's not exactly the truth though. While it's true that the volume of his completions is not what you'd be used to in a pro offense, the ones he does complete are very threatening. Look at the two touchdowns to Decker and Royal this week as good examples.Red zone completions. He can score throwing the ball, and he can score running the ball. That's all it matters

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 12:26 PM
I like our chances against the Chiefs this Sunday. Doom has always showed up big against the Chefs and Von has been excellent as of late.

Miami pressured KC/Cassell all day long and thats what won the game. KC has switched to a predominantly passing team with Bowe, breaston and the rook Baldwin contributing also. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THEIR RB BATTLE could be useful in short yardage. He is more of use than scatback Charles was to them.

If we pressure Cassell we win.....................Doom and Von put on your big boy pants and bring it..................

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:07 PM
I like our chances against the Chiefs this Sunday. Doom has always showed up big against the Chefs and Von has been excellent as of late.

Miami pressured KC/Cassell all day long and thats what won the game. KC has switched to a predominantly passing team with Bowe, breaston and the rook Baldwin contributing also. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THEIR RB BATTLE could be useful in short yardage. He is more of use than scatback Charles was to them.

If we pressure Cassell we win.....................Doom and Von put on your big boy pants and bring it..................

This is the first meaningful Broncos game in a long time.

Really looking forward to it!

Atwater His Ass
11-08-2011, 02:28 PM
That's not exactly the truth though. While it's true that the volume of his completions is not what you'd be used to in a pro offense, the ones he does complete are very threatening. Look at the two touchdowns to Decker and Royal this week as good examples.

I would just add to this that the fact that teams don't respect Tebow throwing, makes what happned against Oakland all the more impressive.

cmhargrove
11-08-2011, 03:17 PM
Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey both suck. Tamba Hali is the one to watch out for.

Historically, Clady has his worst games against Tamba Hali. It should be interesting to watch that matchup now that we look more run oriented.

oubronco
11-08-2011, 03:19 PM
Historically, Clady has his worst games against Tamba Hali. It should be interesting to watch that matchup now that we look more run oriented.

Since they were switching up the line I wonder what lineup they go with this week

SportinOne
11-08-2011, 03:24 PM
this guy always has great write ups...this is on the zone read

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-the-zone-read

This is an excellent write-up.

It will be interesting to see what kind of wrinkles get added as the season goes on, particularly in the passing game.

The big question is this: Is John Fox able to be sold on the idea of going with a non-typical offense? At this point im sure he is not. Will success change this? Will we continue to have success? We'll see.

Hey, we're a game back!

TotallyScrewed
11-08-2011, 06:27 PM
It's going to be fun punching the Chiefs in the dick this week.

I lol'd. Earlier this year, we wouldn't have thought it possible that we'd go to Arrowhead and survive, much less punch them in the dick. This is really pretty damn cool...people believing in the success of the Broncos.

Jay3
11-08-2011, 06:28 PM
I want to have the most rushing yards in the NFL. I wonder how many weeks it might take to get there?

TotallyScrewed
11-08-2011, 06:32 PM
That's not exactly the truth though. While it's true that the volume of his completions is not what you'd be used to in a pro offense, the ones he does complete are very threatening. Look at the two touchdowns to Decker and Royal this week as good examples.

Episode 12??? Where is it??

TotallyScrewed
11-08-2011, 07:09 PM
this guy always has great write ups...this is on the zone read

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-the-zone-read

I agree, a great read. Thanks!!

mwill07
11-08-2011, 09:05 PM
This is an excellent write-up.

It will be interesting to see what kind of wrinkles get added as the season goes on, particularly in the passing game.

The big question is this: Is John Fox able to be sold on the idea of going with a non-typical offense? At this point im sure he is not. Will success change this? Will we continue to have success? We'll see.

Hey, we're a game back!

While in Carolina, Fox drafted Armanti Edwards, a div 2 QB from local Appalachian State in the third round. I believe he was looking to get into the wildcat business, and that's what this selection was all about. Remember - Fox coached against Vick in Atlanta 2x a year right in the midst of Vicks heyday. He is well aware of what a zone-read option can do and the pressures it places on a defense.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 09:10 PM
I want to have the most rushing yards in the NFL. I wonder how many weeks it might take to get there?

at the current rate, it will take about 6 weeks.

mwill07
11-08-2011, 09:18 PM
Here's another tidbit on the zone-read option: Atlanta ran this quite a bit with Vick back in the day. While Vicks passing numbers weren't amazing, the Falcons led the league in rushing yards and yards/attempt in 2004, 2005, and 2006. In 2007, Vick got in trouble with the whole dogfighting thing, Mora left, and the rushing dropped to 26th.

Obviously, Vick was a big part of those rushing numbers, but look at what Warrick Dunn (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunnWa00.htm)did from 2002-2006 - 3of his best 4 career years came sharing time with Vick (and TJ Duckett).

It should be obvious that the entire Falcons rushing offense was dramatically improved with the zone-read. Unfortunately, the only time that turned into wins was 2004, when the Falcons went 11-5 and lost to the Eagles in the championship game.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is that there is precedence for a successful implementation of a zone-read option offense in the NFL.

The questions is this: can Tebow become a better passing QB that Atlanta version Vick was.

Sir_Robin
11-08-2011, 09:43 PM
This thread is more like the o'mane of old. How enjoyable!

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 10:16 PM
Episode 12??? Where is it??

We just finished 20-30 mins ago so it'll be up soon.

jhns
11-10-2011, 08:17 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823f11ac/article/zoneread-option-leads-to-big-results-for-tebow-broncos?module=HP11_cp

Article from the front page of NFL.com that breaks down the run game and what happened on some of the longer runs.

TonyR
11-10-2011, 08:23 AM
While in Carolina, Fox drafted Armanti Edwards, a div 2 QB from local Appalachian State...

Not to nitpick but it's not Div 2, it's Div 1 FCS (formerly Div 1-AA).

mwill07
11-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Not to nitpick but it's not Div 2, it's Div 1 FCS (formerly Div 1-AA).

right...I get that all mixed up.

dictionary
11-10-2011, 10:40 AM
This thread is more like the o'mane of old. How enjoyable!

I think it is more like the Broncos of old (i.e. running with power ala TD and the strength and nastiness of the OL), and the o'mane is reflecting that.

I look forward to the Broncos silencing Arrowhead.