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Vine
11-07-2011, 07:44 PM
Today's Pardon the Interruption, Tony Kornheiser saying all the things about Tebow that most of the Tebow supporters have been saying all along.

I was going to post a link to the Podcast of today's show, but oddly, the link showing today's podcast is actually from Oct 31 (last Monday). I'll post the link to the podcast if espn ever decides to update their podcast link.

Here is a summary of what TK said: TK says he can be a "Poor man's Micheal Vick", says he can "get better as a passer because Micheal Vick got better as a passer", "A pro team can win with him", "commentators on tv look for every reason to knock him down"

Micheal Wilbon had nice things to say too, suggesting that the qb position could evolve with Tebow, just like it evolved 25 years ago, a picture of a qb didn't involve being black", "some play tailored for his talents, finally 'coaching staff' "....

Finally, Wilbon asks, if "Tebow loses 3 games in a row, will the coaches still back him up?", Kornheiser responds, "No, but Sam Bradford is 0-6, nobodies dumping him"

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 08:52 PM
Teebs is 2-1 this season, which is a marked improvement over where the team was when he became the starter. He has been a major contributor in both of the wins.

Its very strange that the front office is less-than-supportive publicly given the whole "he gives us the best chance to win" stuff with Orton and their dogged defense of him the whole time he was consistently contributing to losses. Had Orton put in the kinds of performances that led to wins, Broncos fans would have been happy with Orton and a winning team. That didn't happen though.

Tebow is winning ball games. The team has worked their way back in the hunt. Its difficult to see why the front office does not back Tebow like they backed Orton. Its strange and telling in just how it has become amateur hour in Dove Valley.

maher_tyler
11-07-2011, 09:41 PM
Teebs is 2-1 this season, which is a marked improvement over where the team was when he became the starter. He has been a major contributor in both of the wins.

Its very strange that the front office is less-than-supportive publicly given the whole "he gives us the best chance to win" stuff with Orton and their dogged defense of him the whole time he was consistently contributing to losses. Had Orton put in the kinds of performances that led to wins, Broncos fans would have been happy with Orton and a winning team. That didn't happen though.

Tebow is winning ball games. The team has worked their way back in the hunt. Its difficult to see why the front office does not back Tebow like they backed Orton. Its strange and telling in just how it has become amateur hour in Dove Valley.

Which is why i don't think it'll matter how well Tebow plays, we'll be drafting a QB next draft.

RhymesayersDU
11-07-2011, 09:43 PM
What? Didn't you know that "ESPiN" sucks and all the football minds here know far more than they do?

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 09:44 PM
What? Didn't you know that "ESPiN" sucks and all the football minds here know far more than they do?

ESPiN does suck. I'm sure that's why it was surprising enough for this guy to start a thread on someone having a sensible take on Tebow at that place.

Lycan
11-07-2011, 09:47 PM
I'm with you guys about Tebow getting shafted by the media. But Kornheiser is our voice of reason?

Kornheiser and Skip Bayless supporting Tebow actually hurts more than it helps IMO.

Turd_Ferguson
11-07-2011, 09:52 PM
Here is a summary of what TK said: TK says he can be a "Poor man's Micheal Vick"

Michael Vick sucks and has never won a superbowl. He is 2 - 3 in the playoffs. Why the hell would anyone want a poor mans version of that? In fact if you hurry you can catch the end of Vick Losing to Cutler on MNF.

bowtown
11-07-2011, 10:02 PM
http://blogs.southshorenow.ca/patrick/files/2008/05/kornheiser2xy3.jpg

robbieopperude
11-07-2011, 10:16 PM
Not sure how effective Tebow will be with legs week in and week out. If he can just get two passes better a game it will make a big difference. He needs to figure out away to complete about 58 percent of his passes instead of 50 and those two extra passes need to be down the field to keep the defense honest. I am still a supporter but I have changed my stance that he is the long term option here. He is a dynamic player and is an awesome change of pace weapon and Red Zone weapon but he is still below average as a passer. He needs to continue to work on his reads too.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 10:18 PM
Not sure how effective Tebow will be with legs week in and week out. If he can just get two passes better a game it will make a big difference. He needs to figure out away to complete about 58 percent of his passes instead of 50 and those two extra passes need to be down the field to keep the defense honest. I am still a supporter but I have changed my stance that he is the long term option here. He is a dynamic player and is an awesome change of pace weapon and Red Zone weapon but he is still below average as a passer. He needs to continue to work on his reads too.

I am seeing improvement every week.

TDmvp
11-08-2011, 03:08 AM
Tim looked tons better getting to the back of his drop and on a few passes had pretty good feet set up... The pass to Royal was almost pretty mechanically.

tsiguy96
11-08-2011, 03:23 AM
I am seeing improvement every week.

hence the reason they need to stop this "we will start someone new at the drop of a hat" and realize a young QB with 6 starts isnt going to be perfect.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 07:16 AM
The game will slow down for Tebow as he settles in. He just may figure out to fool the defense enough with his play fakes and fake runs to he hit some big plays on them. He just needs to dirt rubbed on him a few more Sundays. Still his wobbly throws worry me. I'd love to see a tighter spiral. Weird I have friends who throw a tighter a one just playing catch. You would think even a decent college QB would have a great looking pass.

jhns
11-08-2011, 07:33 AM
At least some are being reasonable.

I don't get the hate that others have. Tebow came in and instantly improved the record. He is throwing far less Ints than Orton did, and has a much better INT%. He has a better TD % when passing(yes, just passing). He has a better Qb rating. He also can run in the NFL.

There is no reason this staff shouldn't be fully committed to Tebpw for the rest of the season. He has outplayed a ton of QBs this season. He has played very well for his first few starts. He is 2-1 this season, and 3-3 overall, with one of the worst teams in this league. As I have said multiple times, there has never been this much unwarranted hate for a young QB. I really don't understand it.

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 07:34 AM
The one to ROYAL was text book feet and throw, even a perfect spiral.

He is getting it people, have a little patience.

KevinJames
11-08-2011, 07:59 AM
I keep saying his situation is similar to Vick's first few years in ATL but people keep saying thats crazy is it? Look at Vick's passing numbers his first few years, almost every game is under 50% comp pct.

Jetmeck
11-08-2011, 08:45 AM
I keep saying his situation is similar to Vick's first few years in ATL but people keep saying thats crazy is it? Look at Vick's passing numbers his first few years, almost every game is under 50% comp pct.

Me too. Even Mora ,Jr. on NFL network that coached Vick is down on Tebow. They said the same that Vick couldn't pass back then.....................eyes wide shut on Tebow I guess ????

txtebow
11-08-2011, 09:20 AM
http://blogs.southshorenow.ca/patrick/files/2008/05/kornheiser2xy3.jpg

indeed.

Que
11-08-2011, 10:44 AM
Which is why i don't think it'll matter how well Tebow plays, we'll be drafting a QB next draft.

Nightmare Scenario: The Broncos go .500 from here on out with Tebow at the helm. The FO drafts a QB in the first round and we have to live with Tebow vs. Whoever drama for the rest of our natural born lives. Though, Luck might be of such high caliber that it would preclude that tastes great/less filling debate.

My personal hunch: If the Broncos end the season at .500 - which means Tebow has a winning record this season - the FO will another direction in the first round.

Smiling Assassin27
11-08-2011, 10:49 AM
elongated throwing motion. ;)

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 10:50 AM
elongated throwing motion. ;)

That's incorrect.

Its a "long-gated" throwing motion.

AlphaSeirra
11-08-2011, 11:21 AM
..... eyes wide shut on Tebow I guess ????
===============
===============

Today's Pardon the Interruption, Tony Kornheiser saying all the things about Tebow that most of the Tebow supporters
have been saying all along.

I was going to post a link to the Podcast of today's show, but oddly, the link showing today's podcast is actually from
Oct 31 (last Monday). I'll post the link to the podcast if espn ever decides to update their podcast link.

Here is a summary of what TK said: TK says he can be a "Poor man's Micheal Vick", says he can "get better as a passer
because Micheal Vick got better as a passer", "A pro team can win with him", "commentators on tv look for every
reason to knock him down"

Micheal Wilbon had nice things to say too, suggesting that the qb position could evolve with Tebow, just like it evolved
25 years ago, a picture of a qb didn't involve being black", "some play tailored for his talents, finally 'coaching staff' "....

Finally, Wilbon asks, if "Tebow loses 3 games in a row, will the coaches still back him up?", Kornheiser responds, "No, but
Sam Bradford is 0-6, nobodies dumping him"
==============

Teebs is 2-1 this season, which is a marked improvement over where the team was when he became the starter.
He has been a major contributor in both of the wins.

Its very strange that the front office is less-than-supportive publicly given the whole "he gives us the best chance to win"
stuff with Orton and their dogged defense of him the whole time he was consistently contributing to losses.
Had Orton put in the kinds of performances that led to wins, Broncos fans would have been happy with Orton and a
winning team. That didn't happen though.

Tebow is winning ball games. The team has worked their way back in the hunt. Its difficult to see why the front office
does not back Tebow like they backed Orton. Its strange and telling in just how it has become amateur hour in Dove Valley.
====================



I continue to post stats, week after week, instead of just making more groundless claims, BECAUSE of the massive
negative BS that is spewed and/or posted about Tim.

Verbal 'yes he did - no he didn't' argument is useless, while the facts/stats are only EXACTLY what they are.
===================

I am seeing improvement every week, hence the reason they need to stop this "we will start someone new at the drop of a hat"
and realize a young QB with 6 starts isn't going to be perfect.
==================

Has Tim really improved every week, or is he almost back to where he was before the lock-out off season and after
again being chumped out by the HBC/FO in the pre-season?
Preseason PER's: Tebow 108 -- Orton 104 -- Quinn 69. (HBC - A 'FAIR' competition for starter) ???
Tim had the better Pass Efficiency Rating of the three QB's, and that's before you add in his running ability and the rather
OBVIOUS intangibles.

Against @ Oakland, 2010 1st NFL Start: 8 of 16 for 138 yds, 17.25 yds/comp, 50%, 1 TD, 0 Ints, 100.5 PER
Against @ Oakland, 2011 6th NFL Start: 10 of 21 for 124 yds, 12.4 yds/comp, 47.6%, 2 TD's, 0 Ints, 98. PER

2010 Rookie PER after 3 Starts = 82.1
2011 2nd Year PER after 3 Starts = 81.0

Under Bowlen/Elway/Fox,,,, Tebow has actually slightly digressed and/or the TEAM is weaker on offense, (see Gaffney & Lloyd)
================

Some people continue to dwell on the Completion % instead of the OUTCOME of the games.

Tell me, is 58.7% with a 1-4 record, better than a 46.4% with a 2-1 record?
A part of that Completion % difference is reflected in the TD/Int Ratios.
Orton, after 5 games had a 1.1 to 1 Ratio -- Tebow after 3 games has a 6.0 to 1 Ratio.
People need to GET-OVER the Comp.% and LOOK at the entire BIG PICTURE of the QB's performance.

Orton 91 of 155, 58.7%, for 979 yds, 10.8 yds/comp, 8 TD's - 7 Ints, PER 75.7 - W/L 1-4 (.200) <<<

Tebow 45 of 97, 46.4%, for 536 yds, 11.9 yds/comp, 6 TD's - 1 Int, PER 80.1 - W/L 2-1 (.667) <<<

>>> Notice that the Comp % is the >ONLY< stat where Orton had the better number. <<<
(and that's EXACTLY why the Haters FOCUS on the Comp.% to the exclusion of everything else)

PLUS, that's before you add in the other important feature of having Tebow at QB:
Rushing - 38 for 277 yds, 7.3 ypc, Long 32 yds, 1 TD.
He's only averaging 12 carries/gm, not 25-30 like some haters claim, but they are often runs on critical downs.
Surround Tim with a better TEAM (RB's) and he will only run it when necessary on a scramble or for the occasional
QB draw to keep the opponent D off balance.
==================

The 'ignorant' media morons will likely continue with their stupid claims and much parroted bs.
The 'knowledgeable' LIARS and HATERS will surely continue with their factually incorrect claims and their nasty & unjust personal attacks.

The vast majority of Bronco fans are already behind Tim as the QB.
The same goes for his Teammates, who see him and work with him virtually every day.
But until the HBC & FO fully commit to Tim and then fully support him, Bronco TEAM success will continue to be 'spotty' at best imo.
==============

PS

Just a little FYI: 8')

Fox Career 76 - 76 (.500)
Tebow Career 3 - 3 (.500)

PSS

"You would think even a decent college QB would have a great looking pass."

'A Great Looking' Pass VS The All Time Career PER in the Toughest Defense Conf. in the Nation - 170.79

Peyton Manning in the SEC threw for 89 TD's with 34 Int's. (Pretty 'tight spiral' Passes & 'Happy' feet)
Tim Tebow in a tougher era SEC threw for 88 TD's with just 16 Int's. (All Time SEC Career PER Record)
* Done while Tebow was also breaking H.Walker's SEC Career (49) Rushing TD record with 57 TD's.

In the MONSTER SEC, Tebow has BOTH the Career PER and the Career Rushing TD Records! ^5

bowtown
11-08-2011, 11:51 AM
I continue to post stats, week after week,

And everyone continues not to read them...

2KBack
11-08-2011, 12:27 PM
I continue to post stats, week after week, instead of just making more groundless claims, BECAUSE of the massive
negative BS that is spewed and/or posted about Tim.

Verbal 'yes he did - no he didn't' argument is useless, while the facts/stats are only EXACTLY what they are.
===================


==================

Has Tim really improved every week, or is he almost back to where he was before the lock-out off season and after
again being chumped out by the HBC/FO in the pre-season?
Preseason PER's: Tebow 108 -- Orton 104 -- Quinn 69. (HBC - A 'FAIR' competition for starter) ???
Tim had the better Pass Efficiency Rating of the three QB's, and that's before you add in his running ability and the rather
OBVIOUS intangibles.

Against @ Oakland, 2010 1st NFL Start: 8 of 16 for 138 yds, 17.25 yds/comp, 50%, 1 TD, 0 Ints, 100.5 PER
Against @ Oakland, 2011 6th NFL Start: 10 of 21 for 124 yds, 12.4 yds/comp, 47.6%, 2 TD's, 0 Ints, 98. PER

2010 Rookie PER after 3 Starts = 82.1
2011 2nd Year PER after 3 Starts = 81.0

Under Bowlen/Elway/Fox,,,, Tebow has actually slightly digressed and/or the TEAM is weaker on offense, (see Gaffney & Lloyd)
================

Some people continue to dwell on the Completion % instead of the OUTCOME of the games.

Tell me, is 58.7% with a 1-4 record, better than a 46.4% with a 2-1 record?
A part of that Completion % difference is reflected in the TD/Int Ratios.
Orton, after 5 games had a 1.1 to 1 Ratio -- Tebow after 3 games has a 6.0 to 1 Ratio.
People need to GET-OVER the Comp.% and LOOK at the entire BIG PICTURE of the QB's performance.

Orton 91 of 155, 58.7%, for 979 yds, 10.8 yds/comp, 8 TD's - 7 Ints, PER 75.7 - W/L 1-4 (.200) <<<

Tebow 45 of 97, 46.4%, for 536 yds, 11.9 yds/comp, 6 TD's - 1 Int, PER 80.1 - W/L 2-1 (.667) <<<

>>> Notice that the Comp % is the >ONLY< stat where Orton had the better number. <<<
(and that's EXACTLY why the Haters FOCUS on the Comp.% to the exclusion of everything else)

PLUS, that's before you add in the other important feature of having Tebow at QB:
Rushing - 38 for 277 yds, 7.3 ypc, Long 32 yds, 1 TD.
He's only averaging 12 carries/gm, not 25-30 like some haters claim, but they are often runs on critical downs.
Surround Tim with a better TEAM (RB's) and he will only run it when necessary on a scramble or for the occasional
QB draw to keep the opponent D off balance.
==================

The 'ignorant' media morons will likely continue with their stupid claims and much parroted bs.
The 'knowledgeable' LIARS and HATERS will surely continue with their factually incorrect claims and their nasty & unjust personal attacks.

The vast majority of Bronco fans are already behind Tim as the QB.
The same goes for his Teammates, who see him and work with him virtually every day.
But until the HBC & FO fully commit to Tim and then fully support him, Bronco TEAM success will continue to be 'spotty' at best imo.
==============

PS

Just a little FYI: 8')

Fox Career 76 - 76 (.500)
Tebow Career 3 - 3 (.500)

PSS



'A Great Looking' Pass VS The All Time Career PER in the Toughest Defense Conf. in the Nation - 170.79

Peyton Manning in the SEC threw for 89 TD's with 34 Int's. (Pretty 'tight spiral' Passes & 'Happy' feet)
Tim Tebow in a tougher era SEC threw for 88 TD's with just 16 Int's. (All Time SEC Career PER Record)
* Done while Tebow was also breaking H.Walker's SEC Career (49) Rushing TD record with 57 TD's.

In the MONSTER SEC, Tebow has BOTH the Career PER and the Career Rushing TD Records! ^5

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_WbHkDjUBi3U/TWNeT1P6JcI/AAAAAAAAAYs/U-DCThzqAvI/6Tdo.gif

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 12:30 PM
I continue to post stats, week after week, instead of just making more groundless claims, BECAUSE of the massive
negative BS that is spewed and/or posted about Tim.

Verbal 'yes he did - no he didn't' argument is useless, while the facts/stats are only EXACTLY what they are.

No. You only post stats because they require no actual thought or understanding. You are incapable of actually providing context or analysis. It's simply easier to throw the same generic stats out there week after week as if they have any meaning at all without context or explanation.

lod01
11-08-2011, 12:48 PM
And everyone continues not to read them...

:yayaya::~ohyah!::rofl:Hilarious!

ghwk
11-08-2011, 01:47 PM
AlphaSierra who?

Turd_Ferguson
11-08-2011, 01:58 PM
I continue to post stats, week after week, instead of just making more groundless claims, BECAUSE of the massive
negative BS that is spewed and/or posted about Tim.

Think of it this way... In the movie Forrest Gump, Forrest probably had great stats, (his yards per carry were through the roof) but he was border line mentally handicapped. No NFL team would touch him, so he went on to be a great marathon runner.

In this case, Tebow may have great numbers, but he probably lacks the ability to play quarterback in a league that is more and more pass oriented... That doesnt mean he wont go on to be great at something else, like coaching, or inspirational speaking, maybe even the greatest Canadian Football League quarterback of all time.