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Bronx33
11-07-2011, 04:57 PM
Does he just hate Christians or is being a scumbag 24/7 just come natural?

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tQIJ56rltjU" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

Archer81
11-07-2011, 05:05 PM
...unfunny comedians get shows on HBO.


:Broncos:

El Jué
11-07-2011, 05:05 PM
http://sovereignthink.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/scarecrow2.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:06 PM
ahh, i actually missed New Rules this week. I enjoy Bill MAHER's show though, though, obviously thats not shocking.

Mogulseeker
11-07-2011, 05:10 PM
I think Bill Maher is hilarious. I disagree with him on most, but agree wig him on a suprising number of issues. He runs his mouth for laughs. Tebow is an easy target. Doesn't suprize me.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:10 PM
He's a dumbass and from time-to-time he makes funny jokes.

Bronx33
11-07-2011, 05:11 PM
thanks TJ

Que
11-07-2011, 05:12 PM
Designated Non-Believer here.... hi Jesus lovers. :welcome::welcome::welcome:

Let me just say that I find this Christian hating routine that Bill Marr throws down as insulting, unfunny and stupid. I'd be pissed too.

Anyhow, carry on.

brncs_fan
11-07-2011, 05:12 PM
His schtick was funny for about 5 minutes. Once. Now he is just an angry, bitter man.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:13 PM
He doesn't just hate christianity...he hates all religion and is very consistent with it.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:13 PM
His schtick was funny for about 5 minutes. Once. Not he is just an angry, bitter man.

That happened to George Carlin.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:13 PM
He doesn't just hate christianity...he hates all religion and is very consistent with it.

He's religious.

brncs_fan
11-07-2011, 05:14 PM
That happened to George Carlin.

George always had a way of mixing it up from time to time though.

ColoradoDarin
11-07-2011, 05:14 PM
Yes, he's a bigot who hates Christians and he's also a scumbag in general.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:16 PM
He's religious.

religiously unreligious?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:17 PM
Yes, he's a bigot who hates Christians and he's also a scumbag in general.

He doesnt hate "christians," he hates that it runs people's lives. He hates that any religion runs people's lives. Stop making it christian hate.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:20 PM
religiously unreligious?

We've been over this:

Atheism is a religion.

Houshyamama
11-07-2011, 05:20 PM
He's never been funny. I'm an atheist and I can't stand his shtick.

yerner
11-07-2011, 05:21 PM
loved it. thanks for posting.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 05:25 PM
Marr... fortuitous misspelling.

Bronx33
11-07-2011, 05:26 PM
Marr... fortuitous misspelling.

i forgot the (z) huh

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:27 PM
You forgot to eat your Wheaties.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:29 PM
We've been over this:

Atheism is a religion.

im not sure how, but alright. Religion implies something superhuman or spiritual, he is neither.

rmsanger
11-07-2011, 05:31 PM
He's f'ing hilarious and I thoroughly enjoy his program.. Quit taking him and yourself so seriously and you'll start to see the light!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-07-2011, 05:31 PM
Designated Non-Believer here.... hi Jesus lovers. :welcome::welcome::welcome:

Let me just say that I find this Christian hating routine that Bill Marr throws down as insulting, unfunny and stupid. I'd be pissed too.

Anyhow, carry on.

This.

Not a fan of Maher.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:32 PM
im not sure how, but alright. Religion implies something superhuman or spiritual, he is neither.

Incorrect. A religion does not require a spirtuality or anything super natural. Its defined as a system of beliefs.

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:32 PM
TEKO likes Maddawg Maddow.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:34 PM
Incorrect. A religion does not require a spirtuality or anything super natural. Its defined as a system of beliefs.

re·li·gion   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPAnoun 1.a setof beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

maher_tyler
11-07-2011, 05:34 PM
Does he just hate Christians or is being a scumbag 24/7 just come natural?

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tQIJ56rltjU" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

I swear we are not related. I don't mind him but that was lame.

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Incorrect. A religion does not require a spirtuality or anything super natural. Its defined as a system of beliefs.

Lol.

Bronx33
11-07-2011, 05:37 PM
Can we just agree maher is a racist douchebag that looks like a troll with the mange please don't turn this into a religious cluster**** thread.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:39 PM
re·li·gion   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPAnoun 1.a setof beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

It's also defined as a system of beliefs as another defintion. Meaning that it does not require a god. Nor does religion require the supernatural.

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:40 PM
Can we just agree maher is a racist douchebag that looks like a troll with the mange please don't turn this into a religious cluster**** thread.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Human_evolution.svg

Tombstone RJ
11-07-2011, 05:40 PM
does anyone watch Bill Maher? If I want political schtic that is anti GOP I'll watch The Daily Show for some laughs, and they do it without the f bombs. Bill Maher is just not funny and never has been.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:42 PM
Can we just agree maher is a racist douchebag that looks like a troll with the mange please don't turn this into a religious cluster**** thread.

He's not a racist? at all?

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:43 PM
It's also defined as a system of beliefs as another defintion. Meaning that it does not require a god. Nor does religion require the supernatural.

There is almost universal acceptance that religion involves worship of a higher power.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:43 PM
It's also defined as a system of beliefs as another defintion. Meaning that it does not require a god. Nor does religion require the supernatural.

Whatever, we can argue this till we're blue in the face, it doesnt change the point

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:44 PM
does anyone watch Bill Maher? If I want political schtic that is anti GOP I'll watch The Daily Show for some laughs, and they do it without the f bombs. Bill Maher is just not funny and never has been.

I watch it. I often enjoy the panel discussions that generally involve opinions from both sides of the issues.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:44 PM
There is almost universal acceptance that religion involves worship of a higher power.

Ahh no. That is one defintion.

Bronx33
11-07-2011, 05:45 PM
Ok this is where the thread goes south ( LOCK THE DOORS!!)

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 05:46 PM
Atheism is a religion.

Actually, atheism lacks nearly everything that defines religion.

Archer81
11-07-2011, 05:46 PM
There is almost universal acceptance that religion involves worship of a higher power.


Buddhism is more a philosophy then a religion, and lacks any central deity. Yet its considered a religion.

Atheism is a religion. The practioner has replaced a god with themselves.


:Broncos:

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:46 PM
Ahh no. That is one defintion.

By your definition, your views on Broncos football would be considered a religion.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:47 PM
Whatever, we can argue this till we're blue in the face, it doesnt change the point

No it makes the point clearly. Bill Maher laments that which he belongs too. A man throwing his ideas that others should not be throwing around their ideas on morality and a belief system that is best for all. He's no different. Making him a big fat pot smoking hypocrite.

dbfan21
11-07-2011, 05:50 PM
Maher is an idiot. And a douchebag. And a waste of oxygen.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:50 PM
No it makes the point clearly. Bill Maher laments that which he belongs too. A man throwing his ideas that others should be throwing around their ideas on morality and a belief system that is best for all. He's no different. Making him a big fat pot smoking hypocrite.

Not true. His biggest gripe with religion is that people fall back on it instead of rational thought. HIs biggest pet peeve is when politicians throw out oneliners about how Jesus will lead them to right answers, like Rick Perry leading prayer groups to help solve the economy issues. And, honestly, I agree that's absurd (but im an athiest). If people prayed in private and didnt let it affect their lifestyle in a way that affects others, I doubt he'd have as big a problem with it. Its when it runs your life and your "morality" affects others, that's when he takes issue. He only "preaches" athiesm because he's sick and tired of religion being shoved down his throat.

Perry1977
11-07-2011, 05:51 PM
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Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:51 PM
Buddhism is more a philosophy then a religion, and lacks any central deity. Yet its considered a religion.

Atheism is a religion. The practioner has replaced a god with themselves.

Consider ritual and private/public practice in re: Atheism and tell me how that parallels religion.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 05:52 PM
Incorrect. A religion does not require a spirtuality or anything super natural. Its defined as a system of beliefs.

A system with moral codes and rituals devoted to a higher power. Atheism has neither moral codes nor established rituals, and certainly isn't devoted to a higher power.

If you dumb down the definition enough, any belief could be called religion.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-07-2011, 05:53 PM
Consider ritual and private/public practice in re: Atheism and tell me how that parallels religion.

Exactly, there's no ritual or practice. You're thinking of athiesm through a religious paradigm when it has no place in it. I dont let any "higher power" enter my thought process, nor do i pray to anything or practice anything. I just live.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:53 PM
By your definition, your views on Broncos football would be considered a religion.

:)

It IS!

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:54 PM
Buddhism is more a philosophy then a religion, and lacks any central deity. Yet its considered a religion.

Atheism is a religion. The practioner has replaced a god with themselves.


:Broncos:

This.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Not true. His biggest gripe with religion is that people fall back on it instead of rational thought. HIs biggest pet peeve is when politicians throw out oneliners about how Jesus will lead them to right answers, like Rick Perry leading prayer groups to help solve the economy issues. And, honestly, I agree that's absurd (but im an athiest). If people prayed in private and didnt let it affect their lifestyle in a way that affects others, I doubt he'd have as big a problem with it. Its when it runs your life and your "morality" affects others, that's when he takes issue. He only "preaches" athiesm because he's sick and tired of religion being shoved down his throat.

He does those things. He also dies what I said.

maher_tyler
11-07-2011, 05:55 PM
Maher is an idiot. And a douchebag. And a waste of oxygen.

This is hurtful :rofl:

Houshyamama
11-07-2011, 06:00 PM
I just love semantical arguments.

Atheism is not a religion. If someone doesn't believe in aliens, does that mean that they are part of a religion? The reason someone would say atheism is a religion comes from the belief that atheists are inherently anti-christian and have formed to create discord in their world view. I'm not anti-christian. In my view, the world would be a MUCH better place if all religions ceased to exist, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the right to believe in one.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 06:03 PM
I just love semantical arguments.

Atheism is not a religion. If someone doesn't believe in aliens, does that mean that they are part of a religion? The reason someone would say atheism is a religion comes from the belief that atheists are inherently anti-christian and have formed to create discord in their world view. I'm not anti-christian. In my view, the world would be a MUCH better place without if all religions ceased to exist, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the right to believe in one.

And that is a system of beliefs and thus a religion. You think you are different.


You are not. Now the healing can begin :p

Houshyamama
11-07-2011, 06:03 PM
Buddhism is more a philosophy then a religion, and lacks any central deity. Yet its considered a religion.

Atheism is a religion. The practioner has replaced a god with themselves.


:Broncos:

What else did your pastor tell you to think?

Houshyamama
11-07-2011, 06:03 PM
And that is a system of beliefs and thus a religion. You think you are different.


You are not. Now the healing can begin :p

:kiss:

BroncsCheer
11-07-2011, 06:07 PM
Maher will attack anyone or anything that attempts to give credit or credence to anything outside the realm of purely human involvement, physical laws, and chance.

He's the king of "I Don't Know"

He's clever, he's taking advantage of an opportunity yielded up to him by the mainstream media, and he's getting paid for it. Anyone getting butthurt by this is ignorant, and needs to slap their civics and economics teachers in the face for failing them.

Now, for the record, I'm an atheist and I occasionally like Maher, but there's a reason he's on cable and not network airwaves, and it all has to do with money folks.

Just be glad the Broncos are relevant - I'm sure Tim Tebow couldn't care less about what Bill Maher has to say about him.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 06:08 PM
And that is a system of beliefs and thus a religion.
That's a brutally simplistic definition of religion.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 06:11 PM
That's a brutally simplistic definition of religion.

But it is a defintion of a religion.

lostknight
11-07-2011, 06:14 PM
Maher's just man enough to say what a lot of critics think, but won't say.

That being said, he's a well known bigot, who makes money on HBO for saying controversial things. And you all just bit, hook line and sinker.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 06:19 PM
But it is a defintion of a religion.

A dumbed down one, and even by that one, atheism doesn't work. Athiesm is a single belief, not a system of multiple beliefs as required per your weak definition.

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 06:20 PM
This.

Not a fan of Maher.

I am a fan of Mahler, just not his 4th Symphony.

StugotsIII
11-07-2011, 06:32 PM
Does he just hate Christians or is being a scumbag 24/7 just come natural?

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tQIJ56rltjU" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

His show is the definition of unfunny...


The audience of his show, who love him are basically silent during his comedic rants. Some chuckles here and there...but nothing more the nervous, awkward laughs to save their hero's pride.


I'm not all that big on organized religion either, but his hatred of it is annoying.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 06:37 PM
Where'd Garcia go? I broke his definition and he took his ball and went home.

steeledude
11-07-2011, 06:38 PM
Does he just hate Christians or is being a scumbag 24/7 just come natural?

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tQIJ56rltjU" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

I thought it was funny. On a personal level, Tebow seems borderline looney toons.

Rolandftw
11-07-2011, 06:39 PM
Maher is not racist, as far as I can tell. His conclusion, at least based on his documentary on religion is that religion has done irreparable harm on the world and we would be better without it. And that 'faith' is something that people say or believe in, when they haven't actually studied the Bible or can explain their convictions.

He's correct on some of what he says. Very few religious people have read the Bible in its entirety, let alone aware of other religious systems.

Don't think he hates Christians, but he definitely mocks them and comes off as a p*ick at times tho. But like other people have pointed out, he does so with other religions not just Christians.

cabronco
11-07-2011, 06:45 PM
I thought it was funny. On a personal level, Tebow seems borderline looney toons.


On a personal level your Qb Ruthlessraper seems like rapist...just sayin

steeledude
11-07-2011, 06:52 PM
On a personal level your Qb Ruthlessraper seems like rapist...just sayin

My QB is Tebow...or whoever they play next week.

Edit: Ohhhhh...I get it. You thought because my last name "Steele" looks like "Steelers" I must be a fan. American intelligence at it again.

Lestat
11-07-2011, 06:54 PM
lol Maher wasn't exactly wrong in anything he said.

Jerry Curl
11-07-2011, 07:05 PM
Bill Maher rules

cabronco
11-07-2011, 07:17 PM
My QB is Tebow...or whoever they play next week.

Edit: Ohhhhh...I get it. You thought because my last name "Steele" looks like "Steelers" I must be a fan. American intelligence at it again.


My bad, I saw new to the forum and thought you were doing a drive by just to take a shot at Tebow.

Houshyamama
11-07-2011, 07:21 PM
Maher is not racist, as far as I can tell. His conclusion, at least based on his documentary on religion is that religion has done irreparable harm on the world and we would be better without it. And that 'faith' is something that people say or believe in, when they haven't actually studied the Bible or can explain their convictions.

He's correct on some of what he says. Very few religious people have read the Bible in its entirety, let alone aware of other religious systems.

Don't think he hates Christians, but he definitely mocks them and comes off as a p*ick at times tho. But like other people have pointed out, he does so with other religions not just Christians.

The ratio of Christians who have read The Da Vinci Code to those who have actually read the Bible cover to cover HAS to be at least 50 to 1.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 07:24 PM
The ratio of Christians who have read The Da Vinci Code to those who have actually read the Bible cover to cover HAS to be at least 50 to 1.

My favorite is when people "witness" to others they are judging them. Jesus clearly states that this is wrong. Its not their place.

rock
11-07-2011, 07:25 PM
Wow. Didn't watch it (cause I don't care) but I'm really surprised he's still around. Never knew he was still on TV.

BTW, apparently he doesn't follow any FB players on Twitter. If he did, he'd have a LOT of targets. Tebow hardly ever mentions religion on twitter but there are more then a few that mention it daily.

BroncsCheer
11-07-2011, 07:27 PM
Wow. Didn't watch it (cause I don't care) but I'm really surprised he's still around. Never knew he was still on TV.

BTW, apparently he doesn't follow any FB players on Twitter. If he did, he'd have a LOT of targets. Tebow hardly ever mentions religion on twitter but there are more then a few that mention it daily.

at least half of TT's twits are scripture references . . . .

NTTAWWT

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 07:42 PM
Bill Maher: a guy who has made a career out of being a hater who trolls for the stupid.

He invented trolling.

Chris
11-07-2011, 07:44 PM
We've been over this:

Atheism is a religion.

Agnosticism is a religion. Deism is a religion. Atheism is NOT believing in any form of god. It is the opposite of religion.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 07:46 PM
Agnosticism is a religion. Deism is a religion. Atheism is NOT believing in any form of god. It is the opposite of religion.

No. Religion does not require a God. Read the thread.

Rolandftw
11-07-2011, 07:50 PM
Tebow hardly ever mentions religion on twitter but there are more then a few that mention it daily.

I dunno about him hardly ever mentioning it. But he doesn't mention it anymore then a lot of other players. Ray Lewis, Peyton Hillis and other players mention it just as much.

People only hate on Tebow for his beliefs because they can't believe he is actually genuine about it. Think someone like Hillis and Lewis are too easy of targets to make fun of. Think most people already see them as fake.

The video itself made more fun of the current GOP leadership, then it did Tebow. For the most part, wasn't really that funny.

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 07:59 PM
Agnosticism is a religion. Deism is a religion. Atheism is NOT believing in any form of god. It is the opposite of religion.

Agnosticism is just a perspective on the nature of God, just like atheism. They are the cornerstones of a person's weltanshaung.

Athiests, like agnostics, can either be religious or non-religious. Secular humanism allows for a believing atheist, as do many other religions.

Atheism can also be religious when it becomes the foundation of a belief system that has its own set of laws and codes...like the socially active athiests who prognosticate with bilboards and political action groups. I would put Maher in that category too because he uses his show to promote athiesm as though it is a belief system.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 08:05 PM
No. Religion does not require a God. Read the thread.
Right. According to your definition it only requires a "system of beliefs". Atheism doesn't include that either. It's a singular belief; there's no system involved.

ABA6776
11-07-2011, 08:06 PM
Mahr has a right to make money and I have a right to ignore him...which I gladly do.

hookemhess
11-07-2011, 08:08 PM
http://i.imgur.com/JO3Xk.png

misturanderson
11-07-2011, 08:12 PM
No. Religion does not require a God. Read the thread.

You saying over and over that any belief system is, by definition, a religion does not make it true.

Jekyll15Hyde
11-07-2011, 08:14 PM
The video itself made more fun of the current GOP leadership, then it did Tebow. For the most part, wasn't really that funny.

This is how I took it. It was a little over the top but still funny, moreso about the GOP than Tebow

misturanderson
11-07-2011, 08:15 PM
I'm fairly sure that Maher is not atheist. I'm under the impression that he is an agnostic with just as much disdain for atheism as any religion that claims an absolute truth. It's just much easier to make fun of the Christian nuts that plaster their ignorance all over the public forums on a daily basis than the essentially 0 atheists that do the same.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 08:16 PM
You saying over and over that any belief system is, by definition, a religion does not make it true.
Even using his own definition, atheism doesn't qualify as a religion.

Bronx33
11-07-2011, 08:20 PM
back to the topic (http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/09/19/bill-mahers-a-liberal-that-means-he-supports-your-right-to-suck-his-dick/)

My beef with Bill Maher isn’t limited to his shockingly stupid and derivative material. I’m also nauseated by his general attitude toward himself and toward other people. He’s clearly vainglorious to a degree that would make any rapper blush, and it couldn’t possibly be less warranted. He’s a short, unfunny half-wit who looks like Spuds Mackenzie with Dan Cortese’s hair. There aren’t a lot of grounds for arrogance there. (I mean, Spuds Mackenzie and Dan Cortese are cool, but Maher somehow finds a way to combine elements of two cool things to make something astoundingly uncool. Think of it like mixing BL Lime and Pinkberry.) I suppose he can be boastful about the fact that he’s got a show on HBO (whatever) and a large collection of sports coats, but Bob Costas can say the same thing and he’s not nearly as arrogant as Maher is.

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm fairly sure that Maher is not atheist. I'm under the impression that he is an agnostic with just as much disdain for atheism as any religion that claims an absolute truth. It's just much easier to make fun of the Christian nuts that plaster their ignorance all over the public forums on a daily basis than the essentially 0 atheists that do the same.

He appears to me to be a self-loathing culturally jewish person.

Those people tend to really hate Christians and religious Jews (they won't even tell you what they really think about muslims).

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 08:24 PM
He appears to me to be a self-loathing culturally jewish person.

Those people tend to really hate Christians and religious Jews (they won't even tell you what they really think about muslims).

Pretty sure he was raised Catholic.

Rolandftw
11-07-2011, 08:28 PM
His mom was Jewish, and his father Catholic. Was raised Catholic. Pretty obvious, he would say he is atheist though.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 08:32 PM
His mom was Jewish, and his father Catholic. Was raised Catholic. Pretty obvious, he would say he is atheist though.

He's not atheist at all.

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 08:43 PM
His mom was Jewish, and his father Catholic. Was raised Catholic. Pretty obvious, he would say he is atheist though.

Ah. Mama's boy. That's not surprising either given that his entire show is just a bunch of whining.

Rolandftw
11-07-2011, 08:48 PM
He's not atheist at all.

He's declared himself as an apatheist. Which is practical atheism as I understand it.

Houshyamama
11-07-2011, 08:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/JO3Xk.png

You must be a Redditor :~ohyah!:

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 08:53 PM
You saying over and over that any belief system is, by definition, a religion does not make it true.

It's not me saying it. Its the defintion. I didn't decide it. Sorry.

*WARHORSE*
11-07-2011, 10:19 PM
Maher revealed himself as willing to go deep in the pitiful department.


Failing ratings will do that to you.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2011, 10:24 PM
Ok the Naomi Campbell has a better completion percentage with cell phones was funny

Other than that Bill Marr is floundering and throwing a life preserver to Tebow.

Kaylore
11-07-2011, 10:40 PM
So everyone is a caricature now? All Republicans are stupid, bacon eating hicks who worship Jesus as a political leader and believe rational thought is of the devil?

That's like saying all Democrats are homosexual jobless minorities who hate spirituality and any kind of moral code.

theAPAOps5
11-07-2011, 10:42 PM
You just described every Bill Marr new rule since the show started Kaylore.

The best thing ever was when Leno would have Marr on and he would pick on him and ask him questions Marr would not answer.

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 10:52 PM
So everyone is a caricature now? All Republicans are stupid, bacon eating hicks who worship Jesus as a political leader and believe rational thought is of the devil?

That's like saying all Democrats are homosexual jobless minorities who hate spirituality and any kind of moral code.

Yes, and all Mexicans ride in the back of over-packed 1980's pickup trucks while listening to nortena on their way to the burrito factory so they can snag some modelo and get back to stare at women while they stand outside at half time of the Chivas/America soccer game.

On that note, all black people eat fried chicken while playing basketball wearing gold chains with dollar signs on them before driving home in their low rider oldsmobile with 20's while rapping and shooting white people with stolen guns.

Similarly, all asian people with slanted eyes study math so much that they don't have time to learn how to drive.

What other cultural stereotypes can we think of?

Punisher
11-07-2011, 11:18 PM
Does he just hate Christians or is being a scumbag 24/7 just come natural?

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tQIJ56rltjU" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

:rofl:

Punisher
11-07-2011, 11:20 PM
So everyone is a caricature now? All Republicans are stupid, bacon eating hicks who worship Jesus as a political leader and believe rational thought is of the devil?

That's like saying all Democrats are homosexual jobless minorities who hate spirituality and any kind of moral code.

lol your right about both parties :~ohyah!:

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 11:22 PM
:rofl:

That person in your avatar looks like the human equivalent of a discarded cassette tape that had been broken and unraveled, digested, and then defecated into a bag full of rotted haggis and broken Erlenmeyer flasks.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 12:17 AM
Wow Tebow has done nothing to deserve this sort of hate. Vick killed dogs and got about the same level for what a few yrs until he played good again? Hell the media hates Tebow more then Vick, more then Ryan Leaf, More then Jamarcus Russell. It's a joke.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 12:18 AM
But they way Tebow throws the ball, if he ends up a winner, I think that proves god exists and that Christians got it right. :)

Punisher
11-08-2011, 02:57 AM
That person in your avatar looks like the human equivalent of a discarded cassette tape that had been broken and unraveled, digested, and then defecated into a bag full of rotted haggis and broken Erlenmeyer flasks.

That's ****ing Awesome lol

dbfan21
11-08-2011, 03:11 AM
back to the topic (http://rageagainstthemanchine.com/2008/09/19/bill-mahers-a-liberal-that-means-he-supports-your-right-to-suck-his-dick/)

My beef with Bill Maher isn’t limited to his shockingly stupid and derivative material. I’m also nauseated by his general attitude toward himself and toward other people. He’s clearly vainglorious to a degree that would make any rapper blush, and it couldn’t possibly be less warranted. He’s a short, unfunny half-wit who looks like Spuds Mackenzie with Dan Cortese’s hair. There aren’t a lot of grounds for arrogance there. (I mean, Spuds Mackenzie and Dan Cortese are cool, but Maher somehow finds a way to combine elements of two cool things to make something astoundingly uncool. Think of it like mixing BL Lime and Pinkberry.) I suppose he can be boastful about the fact that he’s got a show on HBO (whatever) and a large collection of sports coats, but Bob Costas can say the same thing and he’s not nearly as arrogant as Maher is.

^5 Great post!

Jay3
11-08-2011, 03:17 AM
So everyone is a caricature now? All Republicans are stupid, bacon eating hicks who worship Jesus as a political leader and believe rational thought is of the devil?

That's like saying all Democrats are homosexual jobless minorities who hate spirituality and any kind of moral code.

That's what counts as satire for Democrat comedians. They seem fundamentally unable to grasp that approximately half the country shades conservative, so their hard-wired brain just rewrites the script into "rednecks" and "racists."

I wouldn't mind as much if they made fun of both organized political parties the same. But most of them carry water for the Democratic Party, which is a huge turn-off. They attribute pure motives all the time to Democrats -- most of their jokes about Democrats involved pure motives but bungling tactics. What a joke.

Penn Jillette is the best -- he's sort of conservative so he skewers everybody.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 03:31 AM
Incorrect. A religion does not require a spirtuality or anything super natural. Its defined as a system of beliefs.

yes but atheism is not a system of beliefs. it is one belief that God doesn't exist, but there is no set of beliefs aside from that one. Atheism is a belief no doubt, but it is not a system like religion is. Other than all atheists deny the existence of God or supreme beings, the rest of their beliefs can and do vary. There is no prescribed set of rules like there is in defined religions like Christianity.

Atheism is defined as:
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Religion is defined as:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

What is a set of beliefs is Secular Humanism, which may very well include atheism as part of their beliefs, but even that is not defined the same way religion is.

secular humanism 
any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.

At any rate, returning the original post, Bill Maher can be funny, but he is also an arrogant ass on occasion. Some stuff I find funny, other stuff is just sort of b****y and patronizing. As for Tebow, he's just capitalizing on him to mock his real targets. My friend showed me something called the Borowitz Report that I find funnier, but it' all a matter of opinion.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 05:25 AM
We've been over this:

Atheism is a religion.

Trust me, it's the word* they don't like.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 05:26 AM
That's what counts as satire for Democrat comedians. They seem fundamentally unable to grasp that approximately half the country shades conservative, so their hard-wired brain just rewrites the script into "rednecks" and "racists."

I wouldn't mind as much if they made fun of both organized political parties the same. But most of them carry water for the Democratic Party, which is a huge turn-off. They attribute pure motives all the time to Democrats -- most of their jokes about Democrats involved pure motives but bungling tactics. What a joke.

Penn Jillette is the best -- he's sort of conservative so he skewers everybody.

Well...Bill Hicks did. ;)

55CrushEm
11-08-2011, 05:26 AM
Yes, and all Mexicans ride in the back of over-packed 1980's pickup trucks while listening to nortena on their way to the burrito factory so they can snag some modelo and get back to stare at women while they stand outside at half time of the Chivas/America soccer game.

On that note, all black people eat fried chicken while playing basketball wearing gold chains with dollar signs on them before driving home in their low rider oldsmobile with 20's while rapping and shooting white people with stolen guns.

Similarly, all asian people with slanted eyes study math so much that they don't have time to learn how to drive.

What other cultural stereotypes can we think of?

:rofl:

alkemical
11-08-2011, 05:27 AM
yes but atheism is not a system of beliefs. it is one belief that God doesn't exist, but there is no set of beliefs aside from that one. Atheism is a belief no doubt, but it is not a system like religion is. Other than all atheists deny the existence of God or supreme beings, the rest of their beliefs can and do vary. There is no prescribed set of rules like there is in defined religions like Christianity.

Atheism is defined as:
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Religion is defined as:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

What is a set of beliefs is Secular Humanism, which may very well include atheism as part of their beliefs, but even that is not defined the same way religion is.

secular humanism 
any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.

At any rate, returning the original post, Bill Maher can be funny, but he is also an arrogant ass on occasion. Some stuff I find funny, other stuff is just sort of b****y and patronizing. As for Tebow, he's just capitalizing on him to mock his real targets. My friend showed me something called the Borowitz Report that I find funnier, but it' all a matter of opinion.


Any '-sim' is a Belief System, Miss I.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 05:38 AM
Atheism like any religion tries to define the absolute truth. Its a belief. Its a religion.
yes but atheism is not a system of beliefs. it is one belief that God doesn't exist, but there is no set of beliefs aside from that one. Atheism is a belief no doubt, but it is not a system like religion is. Other than all atheists deny the existence of God or supreme beings, the rest of their beliefs can and do vary. There is no prescribed set of rules like there is in defined religions like Christianity.

Atheism is defined as:
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Religion is defined as:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

What is a set of beliefs is Secular Humanism, which may very well include atheism as part of their beliefs, but even that is not defined the same way religion is.

secular humanism 
any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.

At any rate, returning the original post, Bill Maher can be funny, but he is also an arrogant ass on occasion. Some stuff I find funny, other stuff is just sort of b****y and patronizing. As for Tebow, he's just capitalizing on him to mock his real targets. My friend showed me something called the Borowitz Report that I find funnier, but it' all a matter of opinion.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 05:48 AM
And that is a system of beliefs and thus a religion.

No, it isn't. Even if your definition of religion as merely a system of beliefs were correct (it isn't, and you have not even bothered to link a dictionary entry with that definiton), atheism still would not fit the bill. Atheism is not a system of beliefs. It is a singular position: Disbelief in the existence of a god or gods. That's it. An atheist can believe literally anything else they wish on any other subject.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 05:54 AM
No, it isn't. Even if your definition of religion as merely a system of beliefs were correct (it isn't, and you have not even bothered to link a dictionary entry with that definiton), atheism still would not fit the bill. Atheism is not a system of beliefs. It is a singular position: Disbelief in the existence of a god or gods. That's it. An atheist can believe literally anything else they wish on any other subject.

Its also a worldview. Which is another defintion of a religion. Its is a social practice. Its a culture. Its a religion.

Now I realize the resistant to this fact causes some to reach in all sorts of ways. Its not easy to be told you belong to that which you disagree with. But you are still unique...like everybody else. :p

steeledude
11-08-2011, 05:55 AM
My bad, I saw new to the forum and thought you were doing a drive by just to take a shot at Tebow.

It's cool, it's funny tho--Rothlesburger is my most hated QB. I refused to watch the Superbowl last year because the guy got away with rape...twice, and the announcers were of course heralding him as a hero. I'll take Tebow's looney toons "I'm a virgin" shtick any day of the week.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 06:03 AM
Its also a worldview. Which is another defintion of a religion. Its is a social practice. Its a culture. Its a religion.

You keep asserting that the definition of religion meets certain narrow parameters, but you have yet to site a single source to support said assertion. Others have provided dictionary entries that refute your claim. Seems to me that you are just talking out of your ass.

Now I realize the resistant to this fact causes some to reach in all sorts of ways. Its not easy to be told you belong to that which you disagree with. But you are still unique...like everybody else. :p

I realize why folks like you who believe there is a big daddy in the sky who made everything and watches over everyone would be sensitive to someone who rejects that claim, but lack of belief is not the same thing as positive belief. If it were, every individual would have countless religious beliefs. See Russell's teapot for an extrapolation on this absurdity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

jhns
11-08-2011, 06:06 AM
Tebow could beat up Bill. In fact, I would bet he could take most of his detractors.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 06:06 AM
So atheist have observed rituals and practices? Just having a belief isn't a religion Garcia or almost anything could be one.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 06:21 AM
So atheist have observed rituals and practices? Just having a belief isn't a religion Garcia or almost anything could be one.

...They are.

All "isms" are belief systems.

It is what it is, just suck it up and enjoy it. We're all really big kids playing pretend.

TD4HOF
11-08-2011, 06:31 AM
yes but atheism is not a system of beliefs. it is one belief that God doesn't exist, but there is no set of beliefs aside from that one. Atheism is a belief no doubt, but it is not a system like religion is. Other than all atheists deny the existence of God or supreme beings, the rest of their beliefs can and do vary. There is no prescribed set of rules like there is in defined religions like Christianity.

Atheism is defined as:
1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Religion is defined as:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

What is a set of beliefs is Secular Humanism, which may very well include atheism as part of their beliefs, but even that is not defined the same way religion is.

secular humanism 
any set of beliefs that promotes human values without specific allusion to religious doctrines.

At any rate, returning the original post, Bill Maher can be funny, but he is also an arrogant ass on occasion. Some stuff I find funny, other stuff is just sort of b****y and patronizing. As for Tebow, he's just capitalizing on him to mock his real targets. My friend showed me something called the Borowitz Report that I find funnier, but it' all a matter of opinion.

I don't have a horse in this race (personally wish the whole world would simply worship each other) but Andy Borowitz is friggin' funny. Pretty amazing as a one-man show, all those classic tweets and posts.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 06:35 AM
...They are.

All "isms" are belief systems.

It is what it is, just suck it up and enjoy it. We're all really big kids playing pretend.

So impressionism is a belief system? It's actually a school of artistic thought not a belief system and definitely not a religion. Atheism is ONE belief, not a system of beliefs.

If he had tried arguing Secular Humanism as a belief system I would agree that could be studied in a religious context. Atheism is NOT a religion, but critics of Atheism really like trying to putting it there because they think it weakens the one singular arguments atheists make, God does not exist. It doesn't though.

I am playing one last card, my degree is in religious studies and while atheism naturally comes up because it is the polar opposite of religion, it is NOT considered a religion nor is it even considered a philosophy which is another study altogether. Atheism is a belief. One belief that a supreme being DOES not exist. It does not have any practices, it does not have follow any creeds other than the one principle that God does not exist. It doesn't dictate behavioral principles nor provide guidance about science, how the universe works or why it exists. It does nothing but assert that God does not exist.

At any rate, I don't care, but it's a faulty argument and the ism argument is not anymore effective or accurate than the previous arguments. -Ism can be used in more than one way, one is about systems, but it isn't the only way it is used.

I would argue that of the isms below, Atheism is more closely aligned to definition #2 or the part of #3 that says doctrine. It is a doctrine, but it is none of the other things listed. Either way, not all -isms are religions. it's a false premise.

-ism
—suffix forming nouns
1. indicating an action, process, or result: criticism; terrorism
2. indicating a state or condition: paganism
3. indicating a doctrine, system, or body of principles and practices: Leninism; spiritualism
4. indicating behaviour or a characteristic quality: heroism
5. indicating a characteristic usage, esp of a language: colloquialism; Scotticism
6. indicating prejudice on the basis specified: sexism; ageism

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 06:36 AM
As far as Maher goes, I enjoy his show, primarily for the panel discussions and guests which generally present a wide range of view points. He is arrogant and occasionally rude to his guests, though, and I can understand why he would rub some the wrong way. That said, he keeps himself pretty well informed and he usually gets the better of his adversaries on the show. His comedy sketches are hit and miss. The Tebow bit was a miss. I don't mind some Tebow humor, but that was pretty lame.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 06:38 AM
You keep asserting that the definition of religion meets certain narrow parameters, but you have yet to site a single source to support said assertion. Others have provided dictionary entries that refute your claim. Seems to me that you are just talking out of your ass.



Go read a book, websters or Google it. I realize you are a product of the South Carolina educational system, but you don't have to let that hold you back. :)

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 06:43 AM
Go read a book, websters or Google it. I realize you are a product of the South Carolina educational system, but you don't have to let that hold you back. :)

I've looked it up countless times in these debates. I've yet to see any entry from a legitimate source that merely states "a system of beliefs." But maybe there is such an entry. You made the assertion. It's up to you to back it up. Otherwise, you are just talking out of your ass. Did they not teach you rhetoric at Va. Tech?

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 06:45 AM
So atheist have observed rituals and practices? Just having a belief isn't a religion Garcia or almost anything could be one.

Sure it is and precisely fir the reasons Amesj stated.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 06:45 AM
I've looked it up countless times in these debates. I've yet to see any entry from a legitimate source that merely states "a system of beliefs." But maybe there is such an entry. You made the assertion. It's up to you to back it up. Otherwise, you are just talking out of your ass. Did they not teach you rhetoric at Va. Tech?

Its in websters dictionary. I am looking at it right now in the one on my desk.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 06:49 AM
Its in websters dictionary. I am looking at it right now in the one on my desk.

No, it isn't: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion?show=0&t=1320763687

Mr.Meanie
11-08-2011, 06:56 AM
...They are.

All "isms" are belief systems.

It is what it is, just suck it up and enjoy it. We're all really big kids playing pretend.

Autism?

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 06:56 AM
So atheist have observed rituals and practices? Just having a belief isn't a religion Garcia or almost anything could be one.

Precisely. There are many religions. Some would say religion doesn't actually exist, it is instead a culture.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 06:58 AM
No, it isn't: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion?show=0&t=1320763687

Its listed as number 4 in what you quoted.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 06:59 AM
So impressionism is a belief system? It's actually a school of artistic thought not a belief system and definitely not a religion. Atheism is ONE belief, not a system of beliefs.

If he had tried arguing Secular Humanism as a belief system I would agree that could be studied in a religious context. Atheism is NOT a religion, but critics of Atheism really like trying to putting it there because they think it weakens the one singular arguments atheists make, God does not exist. It doesn't though.

I am playing one last card, my degree is in religious studies and while atheism naturally comes up because it is the polar opposite of religion, it is NOT considered a religion nor is it even considered a philosophy which is another study altogether. Atheism is a belief. One belief that a supreme being DOES not exist. It does not have any practices, it does not have follow any creeds other than the one principle that God does not exist. It doesn't dictate behavioral principles nor provide guidance about science, how the universe works or why it exists. It does nothing but assert that God does not exist.

At any rate, I don't care, but it's a faulty argument and the ism argument is not anymore effective or accurate than the previous arguments. -Ism can be used in more than one way, one is about systems, but it isn't the only way it is used.

I would argue that of the isms below, Atheism is more closely aligned to definition #2 or the part of #3 that says doctrine. It is a doctrine, but it is none of the other things listed. Either way, not all -isms are religions. it's a false premise.

-ism
—suffix forming nouns
1. indicating an action, process, or result: criticism; terrorism
2. indicating a state or condition: paganism
3. indicating a doctrine, system, or body of principles and practices: Leninism; spiritualism
4. indicating behaviour or a characteristic quality: heroism
5. indicating a characteristic usage, esp of a language: colloquialism; Scotticism
6. indicating prejudice on the basis specified: sexism; ageism



Any ISM is a belief system:

What's a belief system Miss I?

People have many "beliefs" that make up their world view - and one supports the other in the way humans build up their ontological view point of the world.

Look at how politics is in the USA: It's a religion. There is dogma created by 'Isms', which regulate it to a belief system that shapes your POV.

I never said it Atheism was a religion - i said it is a belief system.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 07:00 AM
Autism?

In their community, yes. ;)

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:00 AM
Precisely. There are many religions. Some would say religion doesn't actually exist, it is instead a culture.

You're absurd logic in action:

Person A: I believe there are invisible monkeys jogging around the rings of Saturn.
Person B: Do you have any proof?
Person A: No.
Person B: Then I don't believe you.
Garcia: Person B is religious.

Go read my link to Russell's teapot, dude.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:01 AM
Its listed as number 4 in what you quoted.

That is not what you asserted. And, in any case, number 4 has a very important qualifier that does not apply to atheism.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 07:01 AM
Its listed as number 4 in what you quoted.

also in that definition:
Related to RELIGION

Synonyms: credo, creed, cult, faith, persuasion
Antonyms: atheism, godlessness

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:04 AM
also in that definition:
Related to RELIGION

Synonyms: credo, creed, cult, faith, persuasion
Antonyms: atheism, godlessness

LOL Good catch.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 07:04 AM
I still find it funny that humans argue semantics that not believing in something isn't a belief - I wish you could speak to more people and understand that it IS.

I could care less really what anyone of you crazy MF'ers chooses to belief - I just find it interesting.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 07:08 AM
I still find it funny that humans argue semantics that not believing in something isn't a belief - I wish you could speak to more people and understand that it IS.

I could care less really what anyone of you crazy MF'ers chooses to belief - I just find it interesting.

I never said Atheism is not a belief. It clearly is ONE belief in the nonexistence of a higher power. What it is NOT is a religion. What it is NOT is a SYSTEM of beliefs. It is ONE belief. ONE BELIEF.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 07:09 AM
Precisely. There are many religions. Some would say religion doesn't actually exist, it is instead a culture.

Well it comes down sort of to nitpicking. Cultures create religions. But we sort of have some criteria we use to determine what is a religion and what isn't. Otherwise like I said we would have people saying I am the church of frisbee golf. Our ritual is to smoke weed then throw some frisbees while we drink beers we sneak onto the course etc etc.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 07:10 AM
Well it comes down sort of to nitpicking. Cultures create religions. But we sort of have some criteria we use to determine what is a religion and what isn't. Otherwise like I said we would have people saying I am the church of frisbee golf. Our ritual is to smoke weed then throw some frisbees while we drink beers we sneak onto the course etc etc.

I want to go to that church. it sounds fun. ;D

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:12 AM
I never said Atheism is not a belief. It clearly is ONE belief in the nonexistence of a higher power. What it is NOT is a religion. What it is NOT is a SYSTEM of beliefs. It is ONE belief. ONE BELIEF.

These guys have been explained this countless times over the years. Their goal is transparent: they desperately want religious belief to be as logical as the atheist position. If they can semantically equate atheism with religion, their goal is achieved (in their warped thinking, at any rate). Of course, even a cursory glance at a dictionary (coupled with a intellectually honest reading, of course) eliminates atheism from the parameters of religion.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 07:14 AM
I never said Atheism is not a belief. It clearly is ONE belief in the nonexistence of a higher power. What it is NOT is a religion. What it is NOT is a SYSTEM of beliefs. It is ONE belief. ONE BELIEF.

Which explains a world view (a philosophy). It's fine, it's ok. All Humans have Belief Systems. I also know people get testy about their BELIEFS.

Everyone has their own Belief System (B.S.) they buy into, I just buy different B.S. than you do. :)

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 07:15 AM
I never said Atheism is not a belief. It clearly is ONE belief in the nonexistence of a higher power. What it is NOT is a religion. What it is NOT is a SYSTEM of beliefs. It is ONE belief. ONE BELIEF.

Sure it is. Its a system of beliefs that tries to describe the truth. Its has a gospel. And that gospel is that there is no God. And Bill Maher is a preacher in that religion.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 07:17 AM
These guys have been explained this countless times over the years. Their goal is transparent: they desperately want religious belief to be as logical as the atheist position. If they can semantically equate atheism with religion, their goal is achieved (in their warped thinking, at any rate). Of course, even a cursory glance at a dictionary (coupled with a intellectually honest reading, of course) eliminates atheism from the parameters of religion.

No, I said it's a belief system used to posit a world view. Very different than a "religion". But I also find that dogma exists in this "ism" as it does in any "ism", and the fundamentalists that champion this "ism" - very much reflect the sad state of fundamentalISM: Death of thought. (This applies to ANY "ISM" - not just athiesm - but these too (http://www.ismbook.com/ismlist.html))

I personally have no stake in it - I could care less - Minus the psychology, ontology, and interest in seeing how humans "defend" their beliefs.

Just interesting to me more than anything these days.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 07:18 AM
These guys have been explained this countless times over the years. Their goal is transparent: they desperately want religious belief to be as logical as the atheist position. If they can semantically equate atheism with religion, their goal is achieved (in their warped thinking, at any rate). Of course, even a cursory glance at a dictionary (coupled with a intellectually honest reading, of course) eliminates atheism from the parameters of religion.

Atheism isn't anymore logical than Baptism. Again, you demonstrate the problem with religions and why you are no different than Catholics. You think you know answer. You do not. No one does.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 07:19 AM
Which explains a world view (a philosophy). It's fine, it's ok. All Humans have Belief Systems. I also know people get testy about their BELIEFS.

Everyone has their own Belief System (B.S.) they buy into, I just buy different B.S. than you do. :)

You don't know what my system of beliefs is about anything. What I am stating is simply dictionary definitions of Atheism. Don't assume just because I know what a word means, that is what I believe.

I know what a rapist is too, but that doesn't mean I am one.

But really cute with B.S. references would be funny if it weren't so condescending and patronizing.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 07:21 AM
Sure it is. Its a system of beliefs that tries to describe the truth. Its has a gospel. And that gospel is that there is no God. And Bill Maher is a preacher in that religion.

you are giving Bill Maher way too much credit. His only belief is in the power to make money off of whatever thing will do that, in this case, his audience is cynical and so he appeals to that demographic.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:21 AM
No, I said it's a belief system used to posit a world view. Very different than a "religion". But I also find that dogma exists in this "ism" as it does in any "ism", and the fundamentalists that champion this "ism" - very much reflect the sad state of fundamentalISM: Death of thought.

Atheism can certainly be one feature of a system of beliefs (secular humanism, for instance), but atheism as an isolated idea is not a system of beliefs. As I said before, atheism is simply a single position: absense of belief in a god or gods. An atheist can believe literally anything else about any other subject. In short, there are no unifying ideas forming a similar world view as you have with religion.

jhns
11-08-2011, 07:22 AM
You don't know what my system of beliefs is about anything. What I am stating is simply dictionary definitions of Atheism. Don't assume just because I know what a word means, that is what I believe.

I know what a rapist is too, but that doesn't mean I am one.

But really cute with B.S. references would be funny if it weren't so condescending and patronizing.

You should become a rapist. Rape of age guys though. We don't have enough women rapists in the world.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 07:23 AM
You should become a rapist. Rape of age guys though. We don't have enough women rapists in the world.

I really don't want to be a female Raiders fan though.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:24 AM
Atheism isn't anymore logical than Baptism.

Like I said, you wish it were that way. It isn't, no matter how dishonestly you try to play with the semantics.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 07:31 AM
You don't know what my system of beliefs is about anything. What I am stating is simply dictionary definitions of Atheism. Don't assume just because I know what a word means, that is what I believe.

I know what a rapist is too, but that doesn't mean I am one.

But really cute with B.S. references would be funny if it weren't so condescending and patronizing.

That's because I'm not talking about you specifically, Miss I - but more in terms of the "human condition".

If you are going by dictionary definitions, then you'll be happy to abide by the fact that dogma dovetails perfectly with how world views are formed in people. You hear it all the time in the WRP room here - or in people here trying to "justify" their POV.

As for the BS comment - how is it insulting that I admit that what I "choose as my belief" system isn't any better/different than yours: It's still B.S.: I choose NOT to force my beliefs around on people - and instead choose to learn. Yet I realize how silly it is all the time.

If you find it condescending and patronizing: Not the intention - just an illustration of how silly it is to try to argue semantics on a topic that has to0 much emotional attachment (which is where some of the "TRUE" believers fail - dogma). If you really look at it from a psychological & ontological POV - "isms" really are "belief systems" - and well all subscribe to some that our neighbors might find silly.

I don't know if you celebrate the old holidays - but I do, and i'm sure my christian and atheist friends laugh at me when I throw a Beltane party - Or when I had a Holiday for Toast. ;) (I did)

I just find it interesting from looking at how people make & shape their POV.

It's kinda like when you talk to people about their job, right:

Everyone knows more than their boss. (Which, might explain some things.)
Most of us* have an elevated sense of self. Most people don't rate themselves as average. When it comes to "ourselves", we have a big blind spot.

I learned a lot of this when playing with Conspiracy Theories & Religions. I learned that belief is/can be a tool that can be a great learning asset when understanding people.

PS: I believe in Sasquatch. :)

alkemical
11-08-2011, 07:35 AM
Atheism can certainly be one feature of a system of beliefs (secular humanism, for instance), but atheism as an isolated idea is not a system of beliefs. As I said before, atheism is simply a single position: absense of belief in a god or gods. An atheist can believe literally anything else about any other subject. In short, there are no unifying ideas forming a similar world view as you have with religion.

Oh, trust me - In many ways I agree. But to dismiss that this "philosophy" doesn't change or alter other beliefs is also mistaken (from my POV).

I like to use Nihilism as an example - that can impact a large section of what beliefs you use to shape the world. That's sort of the territory i've experienced.

Trust me man: I BELIEVED...then I didn't - then I found what works for me (and I champion that all adults can play make believe!). :)

I guess, what it boils down to is this (for myself - after all - that's what you can only really define):

Any belief comes with dogma. Dogma is the death of intelligence.

Dedhed
11-08-2011, 07:41 AM
It's not me saying it. Its the defintion. I didn't decide it. Sorry.

Your definition does not work for atheism.

Dedhed
11-08-2011, 07:44 AM
Atheism like any religion tries to define the absolute truth. Its a belief. Its a religion.So you're changing the definition now?

uplink
11-08-2011, 07:47 AM
I thought it was very funny.

Dedhed
11-08-2011, 07:49 AM
Sure it is. Its a system of beliefs that tries to describe the truth. Its has a gospel. And that gospel is that there is no God. And Bill Maher is a preacher in that religion.

So now your working definition is again changed?

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 07:56 AM
So now your working definition is again changed?

He doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. He is just trying to be antagonistic.

TD4HOF
11-08-2011, 08:03 AM
I just asked an Atheist if Atheism is a religion: he told me to go F myself. Then turned around and promptly got nailed by a well-timed lightning bolt. I will miss him.

Blart
11-08-2011, 08:04 AM
This thread is going to make great bump material for everyone

Dedhed
11-08-2011, 08:09 AM
This thread is going to make great bump material for everyone

Is this based on 2012 doomsday theory?

Blart
11-08-2011, 08:23 AM
Is this based on 2012 doomsday theory?

Haha, no I meant however Tebow turns out.


I don't know why this has become a discussion of atheism based on the original video, but whatever.

jhns
11-08-2011, 08:29 AM
Haha, no I meant however Tebow turns out.


I don't know why this has become a discussion of atheism based on the original video, but whatever.

Then what is there to bump?

oubronco
11-08-2011, 08:32 AM
This guy is the opposite of comedy

Que
11-08-2011, 08:39 AM
Guys, this is a pointless debate. We might as well be shouting at the moon.

There is one thing that we should all agree on though (and getting back to the OP), demonizing and belittling another group for their beliefs like an arrogant a**hole is unfunny and insulting. I actually think it can be done from a comedic sense more or less correctly (see Colbert, Stephen and Steward, Jon). But Bill Maher is just an arrogant prick. Maybe it is the tone of the delivery, maybe it is his smug expression on his face, but as a non-believer, I even found it to be unfunny and insulting. I have plenty of close friends who have strong belief in God and I take umbrage at someone belittling them like that.

Also, can we dispense with the Democrat vs. Republican thing? Someone actually used the phrase "democrat comedian"... ha. Now that's funny. I know of plenty of hard core Republicans that are atheists and many bible thumping Democrats. In fact, in my circles it usually seems to split that way contrary to conventional wisdom.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 09:01 AM
Guys, this is a pointless debate. We might as well be shouting at the moon.

There is one thing that we should all agree on though (and getting back to the OP), demonizing and belittling another group for their beliefs like an arrogant a**hole is unfunny and insulting. I actually think it can be done from a comedic sense more or less correctly (see Colbert, Stephen and Steward, Jon). But Bill Maher is just an arrogant prick. Maybe it is the tone of the delivery, maybe it is his smug expression on his face, but as a non-believer, I even found it to be unfunny and insulting. I have plenty of close friends who have strong belief in God and I take umbrage at someone belittling them like that.

Also, can we dispense with the Democrat vs. Republican thing? Someone actually used the phrase "democrat comedian"... ha. Now that's funny. I know of plenty of hard core Republicans that are atheists and many bible thumping Democrats. In fact, in my circles it usually seems to split that way contrary to conventional wisdom.

Not to mention tons of Democrats are religious. Maher just an arrogant prick just like you said. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on people like that a drag.

Rolandftw
11-08-2011, 09:04 AM
But they way Tebow throws the ball, if he ends up a winner, I think that proves god exists and that Christians got it right. :)

Hey, it happened with Hakeem Olajuwon. Oh wait... :)

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:04 AM
Atheism isn't anymore logical than Baptism. Again, you demonstrate the problem with religions and why you are no different than Catholics. You think you know answer. You do not. No one does.

When i see a shred of real evidence that a god exists, then you can say Baptism is as rational is athiesm. I'm actually happy people (not extremists) believe in God because I think that promotes optimism and comfort in people. The world is a tough place and the belief in something higher is good. But lets not pretend we've ever heard that booming voice from the sky.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:10 AM
Guys, this is a pointless debate. We might as well be shouting at the moon.

There is one thing that we should all agree on though (and getting back to the OP), demonizing and belittling another group for their beliefs like an arrogant a**hole is unfunny and insulting. I actually think it can be done from a comedic sense more or less correctly (see Colbert, Stephen and Steward, Jon). But Bill Maher is just an arrogant prick. Maybe it is the tone of the delivery, maybe it is his smug expression on his face, but as a non-believer, I even found it to be unfunny and insulting. I have plenty of close friends who have strong belief in God and I take umbrage at someone belittling them like that.

Also, can we dispense with the Democrat vs. Republican thing? Someone actually used the phrase "democrat comedian"... ha. Now that's funny. I know of plenty of hard core Republicans that are atheists and many bible thumping Democrats. In fact, in my circles it usually seems to split that way contrary to conventional wisdom.

Bill Maher might be an arrogant prick, but I assume many of you don't watch his show. It's not really a comedy show...it involves comedy, but its a political discourse show. Bill, of course, leans left, but, 9 times out of 10, he has a conservative on his panel. Hell, Grover ****ing Norquist was on the show the other week!

Bill has a caustic way of delivering his message, but he's angry...and you know what, I don't blame him. There is a lot to be angry about. He is VERY consistent with his beliefs about the poltical process...and thats that it should be taken seriously. So when he finds that a lot of the electorate uses unserious thinking to consider their votes, he gets angry. And I do too

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:12 AM
I'm actually happy people (not extremists) believe in God because I think that promotes optimism and comfort in people. The world is a tough place and the belief in something higher is good. But lets not pretend we've ever heard that booming voice from the sky.

then you and I see eye-to-eye on the subject of God and it's place in a culture. I would alos add that it okay to talk to God. If God is talking to you, then you might have problem.

peacepipe
11-08-2011, 09:13 AM
Bill Maher might be an arrogant prick, but I assume many of you don't watch his show. It's not really a comedy show...it involves comedy, but its a political discourse show. Bill, of course, leans left, but, 9 times out of 10, he has a conservative on his panel. Hell, Grover ****ing Norquist was on the show the other week!

Bill has a caustic way of delivering his message, but he's angry...and you know what, I don't blame him. There is a lot to be angry about. He is VERY consistent with his beliefs about the poltical process...and thats that it should be taken seriously. So when he finds that a lot of the electorate uses unserious thinking to consider their votes, he gets angry. And I do tooHell,darryl ***ing issla was in this specific show.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:18 AM
I never said Atheism is not a belief. It clearly is ONE belief in the nonexistence of a higher power. What it is NOT is a religion. What it is NOT is a SYSTEM of beliefs. It is ONE belief. ONE BELIEF.

If it's a belief, then it is certainly a religion. A system can have one mechanism. A Set can mathmatically have one member. That member can also be zero as an integer.

Rolandftw
11-08-2011, 09:18 AM
And to be fair to Maher, he wasn't bashing every Republican candidate. He doesn't appear to have any problem with Romney. I saw this clip as more of a rip on individual Republican candidates, then a rip on the entire Republican base.

Guess both parties probably see themselves as the more moral party... and neither is any less ridiculous and hypocritical about it.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:22 AM
then you and I see eye-to-eye on the subject of God and it's place in a culture. I would alos add that it okay to talk to God. If God is talking to you, then you might have problem.

I'm OK with it, as long as your (not you specifically) beliefs dont infringe on my life. But lots of times it does (especially in the political process)

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:24 AM
LOL Good catch.


Not really

Synonyms: credo, creed, cult, faith, persuasion

Atheists have a creed or credo
Atheism can be a cult
Atheism has faith or a belief

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:24 AM
And to be fair to Maher, he wasn't bashing every Republican candidate. He doesn't appear to have any problem with Romney. I saw this clip as more of a rip on individual Republican candidates, then a rip on the entire Republican base.

Guess both parties probably see themselves as the more moral party... and neither is any less ridiculous and hypocritical about it.

I dont think moral is the right word. He sees one party as serious and one party as not. I dont think he groups every single republican in this, but he certainly does the ones that promote god. And it scares the **** out of me to know someone who consults jesus on political affairs might be running the country again. And as for the sideshow that is Herman Cain, can you really question why Bill is dumbfounded>?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:25 AM
Not really

Synonyms: credo, creed, cult, faith, persuasion

Atheists have a creed or credo
Atheism can be a cult
Atheism has faith or a belief

I still think "belief" and "religion" are two seperate things. Our definitions definitely differ. Because athiesm is a "belief" only through the paradigm of religion. If religion didn't exist, and a believe in god didn't exist, then athiesm wouldnt exist and wouldnt be discussed. The only reason you are grouping it in with religion is because its an antithesis of it.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:25 AM
I still think "belief" and "religion" are two seperate things. Our definitions definitely differ

That's the fun of lanaguage.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 09:27 AM
If it's a belief, then it is certainly a religion. A system can have one mechanism. A Set can mathmatically have one member. That member can also be zero as an integer.

I do disagree that a belief = a religion. Dogma exists in either. That's why I stopped looking at things like "religions" as "religious" - and more as philosophies you happen to adhere to each and everyday.

Hell, Buddhists are - in many ways atheists...Even Hinduism says Atheism is a valid "belief system/philosophy/etc" - They don't see it as fulfilling (of course, why would they advocate against themselves).

I like Atheism because it asks hard questions, and even MORE important - there is no "stereotype" to get lazy with in having intelligent discourse. I personally love to ask questions to people: I just wish people weren't so anxious to always feel like they are being attacked - but I understand - due to the culture we've created for ourselves).

BroncoInferno noted how you can be an Atheist and believe in many other things. As someone who still holds onto the old world of beliefs - yet is delved in the world of technology - this is something I understand.

I guess in a way, what I see in other humans is this:

we are all full of ****. we take it way too seriously.

Shotgun Willie
11-08-2011, 09:28 AM
If it's a belief, then it is certainly a religion.

This is so, so wrong. It's not even debatable.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 09:28 AM
Bill Maher might be an arrogant prick, but I assume many of you don't watch his show. It's not really a comedy show...it involves comedy, but its a political discourse show. Bill, of course, leans left, but, 9 times out of 10, he has a conservative on his panel. Hell, Grover ****ing Norquist was on the show the other week!

Bill has a caustic way of delivering his message, but he's angry...and you know what, I don't blame him. There is a lot to be angry about. He is VERY consistent with his beliefs about the poltical process...and thats that it should be taken seriously. So when he finds that a lot of the electorate uses unserious thinking to consider their votes, he gets angry. And I do too

I watch his show every week, simply because it is on so much.

When it comes to religion, he is every bit as crazy as most of those he rips. You can't tell me he doesn't hate religion. I have never seen someone who hates religion as much as he. As a Mormon, I have been on the receiving end of much of his ire - as much as he hates religion, he hates Mormons even more (Witness him slapping high-fives with PASTOR Robert Jeffress a few shows ago, over some barb they made about Mitt Romney's cultish ways).

As for having conservative guests; he usually has one, and they're sacrificial lambs. The other two guests are usually against them; Maher himself is always against them; and the crowd is like a Tea Party crowd at a Bachmann rally.

All that said, I still watch the show. I generally feel that it's worthwhile, even if I am often irritated afterwards.

Still, I couldn't help but chuckle at some of your descriptions of him. Bill Maher is Bill O'Reilly, from the left side of the plate. He says things that are outlandishly-slanted to the left. My recent favorite was over Solyndra. He said (and I'm paraphrasing - but not by much): "I don't get the outrage. Every company has failures. That's part of being in business. I thought these righties were SUPPOSED to be pro-business. Yet, they get all up-in-arms the first time a business fails?"

Right, Bill. The "righties" are upset just because Solyndra failed. That's an accurate portrayal of the situation.

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 09:29 AM
you are giving Bill Maher way too much credit. His only belief is in the power to make money off of whatever thing will do that, in this case, his audience is cynical and so he appeals to that demographic.

In some base way he believes what he says.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 09:30 AM
If you think he hates Mormonism, you should see him go after Scientology. ;D

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:39 AM
I watch his show every week, simply because it is on so much.

When it comes to religion, he is every bit as crazy as most of those he rips. You can't tell me he doesn't hate religion. I have never seen someone who hates religion as much as he. As a Mormon, I have been on the receiving end of much of his ire - as much as he hates religion, he hates Mormons even more (Witness him slapping high-fives with PASTOR Robert Jeffress a few shows ago, over some barb they made about Mitt Romney's cultish ways).

As for having conservative guests; he usually has one, and they're sacrificial lambs. The other two guests are usually against them; Maher himself is always against them; and the crowd is like a Tea Party crowd at a Bachmann rally.

All that said, I still watch the show. I generally feel that it's worthwhile, even if I am often irritated afterwards.

Still, I couldn't help but chuckle at some of your descriptions of him. Bill Maher is Bill O'Reilly, from the left side of the plate. He says things that are outlandishly-slanted to the left. My recent favorite was over Solyndra. He said (and I'm paraphrasing - but not by much): "I don't get the outrage. Every company has failures. That's part of being in business. I thought these righties were SUPPOSED to be pro-business. Yet, they get all up-in-arms the first time a business fails?"

Right, Bill. The "righties" are upset just because Solyndra failed. That's an accurate portrayal of the situation.

Of course he hates religion, but he hates it because it runs peoples lives and infects the political process. He generally has more lefties on the show (as well he should, its his show), but I've seen a number of shows where its even teams. Ugh, and I can't stand some of the righties he has on the show (john fund, kill me). Regardless of the number, he does treat them with respect even if he disagrees with him. They aren't sacrificial lambs.

And I dont watch Bill O'Reilly much (another guest on Bill M's show), so I can't say, but lets not group Maher in with the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world (not saying you did).

(and, actually, since you watch the show, he doesnt attack Romney that often. Either do I really, I think he's a reasonable guy (says dumb things from time to time) but i dont think he leans as right as his rhetoric suggests right now)

rugbythug
11-08-2011, 09:50 AM
I dont think moral is the right word. He sees one party as serious and one party as not. I dont think he groups every single republican in this, but he certainly does the ones that promote god. And it scares the **** out of me to know someone who consults jesus on political affairs might be running the country again. And as for the sideshow that is Herman Cain, can you really question why Bill is dumbfounded>?

Wow bizarro twin! !

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Of course he hates religion, but he hates it because it runs peoples lives and infects the political process. He generally has more lefties on the show (as well he should, its his show), but I've seen a number of shows where its even teams. Ugh, and I can't stand some of the righties he has on the show (john fund, kill me). Regardless of the number, he does treat them with respect even if he disagrees with him. They aren't sacrificial lambs.

And I dont watch Bill O'Reilly much (another guest on Bill M's show), so I can't say, but lets not group Maher in with the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world (not saying you did).

(and, actually, since you watch the show, he doesnt attack Romney that often. Either do I really, I think he's a reasonable guy (says dumb things from time to time) but i dont think he leans as right as his rhetoric suggests right now)

If you think that Maher is any different than Rush Limbaugh, you're insane.

You should vary your media ingestion and start looking at it critically.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 09:54 AM
If you think that Maher is any different than Rush Limbaugh, you're insane.

You should vary your media ingestion and start looking at it critically.

From the guy who doesn't look at anything critically. Ha!

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 09:57 AM
From the guy who doesn't look at anything critically.

Get a job.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 09:59 AM
If you think that Maher is any different than Rush Limbaugh, you're insane.

You should vary your media ingestion and start looking at it critically.

I've watched enough Rush to know he's a sensationalist piece of garbage. Bill runs a weighted panel and then has his slanted final thought at the end. Generally its thoughtful, if a bit sensationalized. He and Rush Limbaugh are NOT the same. Unless you think anyone who disagrees with you is absurd.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 10:01 AM
Of course he hates religion, but he hates it because it runs peoples lives and infects the political process. He generally has more lefties on the show (as well he should, its his show), but I've seen a number of shows where its even teams. Ugh, and I can't stand some of the righties he has on the show (john fund, kill me). Regardless of the number, he does treat them with respect even if he disagrees with him. They aren't sacrificial lambs.

And I dont watch Bill O'Reilly much (another guest on Bill M's show), so I can't say, but lets not group Maher in with the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world (not saying you did).

(and, actually, since you watch the show, he doesnt attack Romney that often. Either do I really, I think he's a reasonable guy (says dumb things from time to time) but i dont think he leans as right as his rhetoric suggests right now)

I like and respect you, so I am not looking for an argument. But I will respectfully disagree.

I have actually heard Maher use the term "sacrificial lamb" in referring to the conservatives he has on his show. He does it jokingly, when he is thanking his guests at the end of the show - but he's used that exact term.

And I really do think he takes the religion thing farther than you are suggesting. I like to think I have a thick skin (or else I just wouldn't watch the show); but especially lately, he says at least one shockingly-disrespectful thing about religion a show.

Do you see the difference between these two sentences?

1) "It worries me that a person who believes the world is going to end soon anyway has the power to start a nuclear holocaust."

and

2) "Look, if you're dumb enough to believe that a zombie named Jesus - a zombie whose flesh you practice eating when you take communion - is going to come and eat the souls of all those who are a little mean to you, then we "intelligent people" will reserve the right to consider it when determining whether you're intellectually fit to be our leader."

I enjoy listening to dissenting perspectives. Really, I do. If I had to summarize the main thing I believe is wrong with the country today, it's that almost nobody is willing to search for healthy compromises anymore. There isn't any respect for the opposition in politics, like there used to be. Willingness to compromise in politics has somehow become a moral dilemma - a proverbial line drawn in the sand. Making concessions for the overall process has somehow become akin to selling your soul to the devil.

That kind of attitude is what is killing us. And I think a guy like Bill Maher is just as guilty of it as Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 10:02 AM
I've watched enough Rush to know he's a sensationalist piece of garbage. Bill runs a weighted panel and then has his slanted final thought at the end. Generally its thoughtful, if a bit sensationalized. He and Rush Limbaugh are NOT the same. Unless you think anyone who disagrees with you is absurd.

Not to mention, Bill does it for laughs. Rush does it for the pure meanness of it, which he rolls in like a pig.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:07 AM
I've watched enough Rush to know he's a sensationalist piece of garbage. Bill runs a weighted panel and then has his slanted final thought at the end. Generally its thoughtful, if a bit sensationalized. He and Rush Limbaugh are NOT the same. Unless you think anyone who disagrees with you is absurd.



That bolded part, yeah - that pretty much sums up llama.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:12 AM
Not to mention, Bill does it for laughs. Rush does it for the pure meanness of it, which he rolls in like a pig.

Nah, he does it for the drugs and hookers.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 10:14 AM
I like and respect you, so I am not looking for an argument. But I will respectfully disagree.

I have actually heard Maher use the term "sacrificial lamb" in referring to the conservatives he has on his show. He does it jokingly, when he is thanking his guests at the end of the show - but he's used that exact term.

And I really do think he takes the religion thing farther than you are suggesting. I like to think I have a thick skin (or else I just wouldn't watch the show); but especially lately, he says at least one shockingly-disrespectful thing about religion a show.

Do you see the difference between these two sentences?

1) "It worries me that a person who believes the world is going to end soon anyway has the power to start a nuclear holocaust."

and

2) "Look, if you're dumb enough to believe that a zombie named Jesus - a zombie whose flesh you practice eating when you take communion - is going to come and eat the souls of all those who are a little mean to you, then we "intelligent people" will reserve the right to consider it when determining whether you're intellectually fit to be our leader."

I enjoy listening to dissenting perspectives. Really, I do. If I had to summarize the main thing I believe is wrong with the country today, it's that almost nobody is willing to search for healthy compromises anymore. There isn't any respect for the opposition in politics, like there used to be. Willingness to compromise in politics has somehow become a moral dilemma - a proverbial line drawn in the sand. Making concessions for the overall process has somehow become akin to selling your soul to the devil.

That kind of attitude is what is killing us. And I think a guy like Bill Maher is just as guilty of it as Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

I think Maher brings up a good point. Maybe it is time for humanity to start looking around and seeing what religion is doing for us, or to us? Mankind went through polytheism and then into monotheism. Now, maybe it's time for notheism?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 10:17 AM
I like and respect you, so I am not looking for an argument. But I will respectfully disagree.

I have actually heard Maher use the term "sacrificial lamb" in referring to the conservatives he has on his show. He does it jokingly, when he is thanking his guests at the end of the show - but he's used that exact term.

And I really do think he takes the religion thing farther than you are suggesting. I like to think I have a thick skin (or else I just wouldn't watch the show); but especially lately, he says at least one shockingly-disrespectful thing about religion a show.

Do you see the difference between these two sentences?

1) "It worries me that a person who believes the world is going to end soon anyway has the power to start a nuclear holocaust."

and

2) "Look, if you're dumb enough to believe that a zombie named Jesus - a zombie whose flesh you practice eating when you take communion - is going to come and eat the souls of all those who are a little mean to you, then we "intelligent people" will reserve the right to consider it when determining whether you're intellectually fit to be our leader."

I enjoy listening to dissenting perspectives. Really, I do. If I had to summarize the main thing I believe is wrong with the country today, it's that almost nobody is willing to search for healthy compromises anymore. There isn't any respect for the opposition in politics, like there used to be. Willingness to compromise in politics has somehow become a moral dilemma - a proverbial line drawn in the sand. Making concessions for the overall process has somehow become akin to selling your soul to the devil.

That kind of attitude is what is killing us. And I think a guy like Bill Maher is just as guilty of it as Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

I agree and disagree with you. I do think Bill hates religion and he doesnt hide it. And i do think a lot of his comments towards it would be hurtful. I just understand where its coming from, even if I don't really agree with his caustic delivery of it. I know, personally, when I found out Rick Perry rented out a stadium to pray for a better economy, while also knowing hes a serious contender for the republican nomination, I was dumbfounded. Appalled really. Bill has respect for religious people who are even measured...he has cornel west on his show often, who is a clear man of God.

I dont believe he's the equiv of Rush and Glenn simply because he's not the representation or the spokesman of the democractic party, nor does he pretend to have their influence. He also produces a measured show (until his final word)and generally does not make **** up. I find Rush and Glenn say very incidiery comments to frighten and ignite their base, Bill doesnt.

Im not saying Bill can't be a blowhard or an asshole, and im not saying he's right all the time, but hes not in the class of Rush and Glenn.

I completely agree with your assessment of the current political system and that its killing us. And, at this rate, will be the downfall of America. The two parties used to work together, now they are lockstep against each other and its doing nothing for our society. It sickens me, really sickens me...which is actually why im seriously considering a european move. I just hate the climate here these days.

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:20 AM
I completely agree with your assessment of the current political system and that its killing us. And, at this rate, will be the downfall of America. The two parties used to work together, now they are lockstep against each other and its doing nothing for our society. It sickens me, really sickens me...which is actually why im seriously considering a european move. I just hate the climate here these days.

It's another topic - but I think you need to flip the bolded around, just my POV. ;)

Smiling Assassin27
11-08-2011, 10:22 AM
Didn't want to start a whole new thread, but NYT has an interesting write up on Tebow:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/sports/football/in-tebow-debate-a-clash-of-faith-and-football.html?_r=1&hp

TailgateNut
11-08-2011, 10:27 AM
Bill Maher might be an arrogant prick, but I assume many of you don't watch his show. It's not really a comedy show...it involves comedy, but its a political discourse show. Bill, of course, leans left, but, 9 times out of 10, he has a conservative on his panel. Hell, Grover ****ing Norquist was on the show the other week!

Bill has a caustic way of delivering his message, but he's angry...and you know what, I don't blame him. There is a lot to be angry about. He is VERY consistent with his beliefs about the poltical process...and thats that it should be taken seriously. So when he finds that a lot of the electorate uses unserious thinking to consider their votes, he gets angry. And I do too


I've seen/ heard him rip into Obama when he had it coming, which is, quite often. So all the righties can shove it with their prejudiced opinions of Maher. He isn't quite as faithful to party as they want others to believe.

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 10:29 AM
It's another topic - but I think you need to flip the bolded around, just my POV. ;)

What do you mean, flip them around?

alkemical
11-08-2011, 10:31 AM
What do you mean, flip them around?

I think for the most part, what we're seeing is a product of cooperation, not dysfunction.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 10:33 AM
I think for the most part, what we're seeing is a product of cooperation, not dysfunction.

ha! i suppose thats true

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 10:34 AM
I've seen/ heard him rip into Obama when he had it coming, which is, quite often. So all the righties can shove it with their prejudiced opinions of Maher. He isn't quite as faithful to party as they want others to believe.

Yeah, he's kind of like me i suppose. A staunch leftist and will kill the democratic party when they don't cater to our views. He lets Obama have it often, the entire demo party (bernie sanders aside! though i suppose hes an indep)

Houshyamama
11-08-2011, 10:45 AM
Precisely. There are many religions. Some would say religion doesn't actually exist, it is instead a culture.

Now you're just saying random words.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/anchorman.jpg

DomCasual
11-08-2011, 10:48 AM
I completely agree with your assessment of the current political system and that its killing us. And, at this rate, will be the downfall of America. The two parties used to work together, now they are lockstep against each other and its doing nothing for our society. It sickens me, really sickens me...which is actually why im seriously considering a european move. I just hate the climate here these days.

When I was in college, one of my political science professors was a close friend of Utah Senator Orrin Hatch. One of this professor's favorite information bits was about how Hatch's closest friend in the Senate was Ted Kennedy. He said that they would have a standing lunch together once a week, take occasional vacations together, etc. If I remember correctly, Hatch spoke at Kennedy's funeral.

It's kind of a metaphor to me about how government should operate. There are some issues that become matters of conscience - issues where compromise is, indeed, selling your soul to the devil. But those issues are few and far between. With the vast majority of issues, compromise is healthy. But in the current environment, there seems to be none of those types of issues. You don't compromise on ANYTHING, because you simply can't stand the person on the other side of the issue.

BroncoBeavis
11-08-2011, 10:50 AM
We should probably do some kind of correlation study on the proportionality of Tebow hate to Maher love.

I believe you'd find that those who love Maher are much more likely to hate Tebow, and vice versa. :)

dbfan4life
11-08-2011, 10:53 AM
The only funny part of that rant:

"All three candidates claim God called them to be President. If this is true, isn't he just ****ing with 2 of 'em!"

:rofl:

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 11:07 AM
We should probably do some kind of correlation study on the proportionality of Tebow hate to Maher love.

I believe you'd find that those who love Maher are much more likely to hate Tebow, and vice versa. :)

I'm a big maher fan and a big timmy fan. But ive never cared for any athlete on a personal level (i dont know them, they dont know me), i just care about how they help the denver broncos. Once Tim leaves the Broncos (if ever), then i doubt I'll care much about Tim. But i think he's a gamer and want to see him succeed here in denver.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:15 AM
I wonder what fans of most teams would do if they got a new rookie who announced, "I'm going to use my position on this team to constantly remind people about my belief in progressive politics, or open homosexuality, or Muslim Fundamentalism, or Israel's agenda, or the plight of the Palestinians, or Libertarianism, or conservation, etc, etc, etc?"

"And every time I make a touchdown, I'm going to use the stage that the NFL provides to symbolically further my agenda."

jhns
11-08-2011, 11:18 AM
I wonder what fans of most teams would do if they got a new rookie who announced, "I'm going to use my position on this team to constantly remind people about my belief in progressive politics, or open homosexuality, or Muslim Fundamentalism, or Israel's agenda, or the plight of the Palestinians, or Libertarianism, or conservation, etc, etc, etc?"

"And every time I make a touchdown, I'm going to use the stage that the NFL provides to symbolically further my agenda."

Well, this fan thinks you just need to stop being such a whiney b****.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:18 AM
Well, this fan thinks you just need to stop being such a whiney b****.

Ha! What a punk.

maven
11-08-2011, 11:27 AM
to the op's video, that video and segment sucked.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 11:27 AM
I've seen/ heard him rip into Obama when he had it coming, which is, quite often. So all the righties can shove it with their prejudiced opinions of Maher. He isn't quite as faithful to party as they want others to believe.

I am a leftie, but even I think the guy can be a self-righteous prick. Most of this particular clip was okay but not that funny but I know what I am getting with him. I prefer Jon Stewart when it comes to his comedic slant of the news and politics. I tend to see Maher as less comedian then political commentator like Bill O'Reilly I guess. Right now having an atheistic bend sells better than religion and Tebow is an easy target. If we were a winning team, I wonder if this discussion would be different. .

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 11:33 AM
I am a leftie, but even I think the guy can be a self-righteous prick. Most of this particular clip was okay but not that funny but I know what I am getting with him. I prefer Jon Stewart when it comes to his comedic slant of the news and politics. I tend to see Maher as less comedian then political commentator like Bill O'Reilly I guess. Right now having an atheistic bend sells better than religion and Tebow is an easy target. If we were a winning team, I wonder if this discussion would be different. .

Yeah, Maher can definitely push it too far. Sometimes, he is vulgar simply for the sake of it. On the other hand, sometimes he comes up with some pretty brilliant satire. He's a satirist. It's in the nature of the job title to push the envelope. O'Reilly, Rush, Beck, et al are definitely more on the propaganda side of the equation than the satire side.

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 11:35 AM
Yeah, Maher can definitely push it too far. Sometimes, he is vulgar simply for the sake of it. On the other hand, sometimes he comes up with some pretty brilliant satire. He's a satirist. It's in the nature of the job title to push the envelope. O'Reilly, Rush, Beck, et al are definitely more on the propaganda side of the equation than the satire side.

I can see that, the satirist thing. He's just angrier than Stewart who admittedly I like better. I did think that movie he made about religion was pretty funny to be honest. I know it was totally slanted, but it was pretty funny.

2KBack
11-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Yeah, Maher can definitely push it too far. Sometimes, he is vulgar simply for the sake of it. On the other hand, sometimes he comes up with some pretty brilliant satire. He's a satirist. It's in the nature of the job title to push the envelope. O'Reilly, Rush, Beck, et al are definitely more on the propaganda side of the equation than the satire side.

Maher would be a genius if he wasn't so damn unlikable. I tend to agree with him a lot, but he is such an asshole in presenting his arguments that I want to disagree with him instead.

Houshyamama
11-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Maher would be a genius if he wasn't so damn unlikable. I tend to agree with him a lot, but he is such an a-hole in presenting his arguments that I want to disagree with him instead.

There is a sneering quality to his voice that makes me want to beat the **** out of him.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 11:46 AM
There is a sneering quality to his voice that makes me want to beat the **** out of him.

His hairstyle is pretty cool though.

Smiling Assassin27
11-08-2011, 12:01 PM
He's the James Kottak of satirists/comedians.

Blart
11-08-2011, 12:03 PM
If it's a belief, then it is certainly a religion. A system can have one mechanism. A Set can mathmatically have one member. That member can also be zero as an integer.

A child who has never heard of God is atheist (lacking theism), therefore religious?

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 12:07 PM
A child who has never heard of God is atheist (lacking theism), therefore religious?

What are you talking about...the Christian God, pantheism, Ganesh, Vishnu, The Great Spirit, the Immoveable Mover, or what?

BroncoBeavis
11-08-2011, 12:48 PM
I wonder what fans of most teams would do if they got a new rookie who announced, "I'm going to use my position on this team to constantly remind people about my belief in progressive politics, or open homosexuality, or Muslim Fundamentalism, or Israel's agenda, or the plight of the Palestinians, or Libertarianism, or conservation, etc, etc, etc?"

"And every time I make a touchdown, I'm going to use the stage that the NFL provides to symbolically further my agenda."

Could be worse. They could wear pink every game to remind us that cancer is bad or something. :)

But honestly, on the field, Tebow isn't any more out there with his faith than half of the other players. Which leads me to the opinion that what bugs people most about Timmy wearing his faith on his sleeve is that he lives (off the field) like he really believes it.

Mr.Meanie
11-08-2011, 01:57 PM
If it's a belief, then it is certainly a religion. A system can have one mechanism. A Set can mathmatically have one member. That member can also be zero as an integer.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy. More specifically, I adamantly believe the tooth fairy doesn't exist and is a completely made up fairy tale. Does that make me religious?

Garcia Bronco
11-08-2011, 02:01 PM
I love the horrible analogies.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:02 PM
I don't believe in the tooth fairy. More specifically, I adamantly believe the tooth fairy doesn't exist and is a completely made up fairy tale. Does that make me religious?

That is an incredibly stupid analogy.

Mr.Meanie
11-08-2011, 02:02 PM
Why? How is that different?

Mr.Meanie
11-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Let me put it this way... if I said:

I don't believe in god. More specifically, I adamantly believe god doesn't exist and is a completely made up fairy tale. Does that make me religious?

Would that make me religious? Where is the difference?

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 02:05 PM
I love the horrible analogies.

No, it's a perfect analogy that displays the absurdity of your claim.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:08 PM
Why? How is that different?

If you can't figure that out, then you might need to work out that noodle a little more.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:09 PM
Let me put it this way... if I said:

I don't believe in god. More specifically, I adamantly believe god doesn't exist and is a completely made up fairy tale. Does that make me religious?

Would that make me religious? Where is the difference?

That makes you irrational and ignorant, but whether or not it makes the foundation for a religion is dependent on other factors.

Mr.Meanie
11-08-2011, 02:10 PM
That makes you irrational and ignorant, but whether or not it makes the foundation for a religion is dependent on other factors.

That's the entire argument, genius.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 02:11 PM
Let me put it this way... if I said:

I don't believe in god. More specifically, I adamantly believe god doesn't exist and is a completely made up fairy tale. Does that make me religious?

Would that make me religious? Where is the difference?

There isn't a difference. It seems different or absurd to them because they are used to and invested in the concept of god. Unfortunately, they can't explain exactly what the fundamental difference is between the two statements, so they dismiss it with no attempt at explanation. The reason for that is pretty simple: there is no fundamental difference.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:11 PM
That's the entire argument, genius.

I wasn't arguing with you about that principle.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 02:12 PM
If you can't figure that out, then you might need to work out that noodle a little more.

Exhibit A to what I was saying above. No rebuttal of any kind. Just an angry dismissal.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 02:16 PM
That makes you irrational and ignorant, but whether or not it makes the foundation for a religion is dependent on other factors.

Saying that you don't believe in something that cannot be proven to exist makes you "...irrational and ignorant?"

Now there's a twist of logic.

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 02:18 PM
Could be worse. They could wear pink every game to remind us that cancer is bad or something. :)

But honestly, on the field, Tebow isn't any more out there with his faith than half of the other players. Which leads me to the opinion that what bugs people most about Timmy wearing his faith on his sleeve is that he lives (off the field) like he really believes it.

It's the whole freedom "of" religion and freedom "from" religion thing. :angel:

Miss I.
11-08-2011, 02:29 PM
this is just my opinion but I think the problem with this religious discussion is the confusion between "religion" and "theism." Theism is the belief that at least one deity exists. It's natural antonym is "atheism" which is the belief that no deity exists. Neither on its own is a "religion," but religions do develop from that belief. Can a religion develop from atheism, yes, I would actually consider "Secular Humanism" a possible religion that has come out of atheism. However, I still submit that neither theism or atheism are "religions" in and of themselves.

BroncoBeavis
11-08-2011, 02:34 PM
There isn't a difference. It seems different or absurd to them because they are used to and invested in the concept of god. Unfortunately, they can't explain exactly what the fundamental difference is between the two statements, so they dismiss it with no attempt at explanation. The reason for that is pretty simple: there is no fundamental difference.

Here's the difference. Religion is an attempt to answer a very real but difficult-to-grasp question.... Why (maybe how) do we exist?

The tooth fairy is a known fiction who serves no philosophical purpose and was created only for someone's amusement.

As to the first question, some atheists fool themselves into believing that no answer to the question is the 'right' answer. But pretending the question doesn't exist doesn't solve it. Other atheists see this and start trying to answer the question with their own theories. But that's where their answers start to look more and more like a religion in itself.

Jekyll15Hyde
11-08-2011, 02:36 PM
this is just my opinion but I think the problem with this religious discussion is the confusion between "religion" and "theism." Theism is the belief that at least one deity exists. It's natural antonym is "atheism" which is the belief that no deity exists. Neither on its own is a "religion," but religions do develop from that belief. Can a religion develop from atheism, yes, I would actually consider "Secular Humanism" a possible religion that has come out of atheism. However, I still submit that neither theism or atheism are "religions" in and of themselves.

Took a while but we finally got the right answer

Rohirrim
11-08-2011, 02:36 PM
Here's the difference. Religion is an attempt to answer a very real but difficult-to-grasp question.... Why (maybe how) do we exist?

The tooth fairy is a known fiction who serves no philosophical purpose and was created only for someone's amusement.

As to the first question, some atheists fool themselves into believing that no answer to the question is the 'right' answer. But pretending the question doesn't exist doesn't solve it. Other atheists see this and start trying to answer the question with their own theories. But that's where their answers start to look more and more like a religion in itself.

And then there is a whole different group of people trying to answer that same question who are called scientists.

TailgateNut
11-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Saying that you don't believe in something that cannot be proven to exist makes you "...irrational and ignorant?"

Now there's a twist of logic.


But saying you believe in something which doesn't exist is totally rational and acceptable:rofl:


Leave it to DramaLlama to break out the ridiculous ideas.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:41 PM
Saying that you don't believe in something that cannot be proven to exist makes you "...irrational and ignorant?"

Now there's a twist of logic.

Nope.

Dishonestly characterizing something to belittle those who believe it is irrational, and to ignore the value and presence of such beliefs is by definition ignorant.

So yes, to those who value the proper use of language, the words "irrational" and "ignorant" are proper ways to describe such anti-intellectualism.

That's just the way it is.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-08-2011, 02:41 PM
In fact, I'd like to know the difference between God and The Tooth Fairy

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:45 PM
In fact, I'd like to know the difference between God and The Tooth Fairy

Ha!

Um...seriously?

This quote needs to be saved for perpetuity!

LOL

BroncoBeavis
11-08-2011, 02:48 PM
And then there is a whole different group of people trying to answer that same question who are called scientists.

No doubt they try. But a persuasive argument can be made that determining the origins of the universe from our infinitesimal speck within is many orders of magnitude beyond human ability.

That's why you hear implausible arguments like "There was this big ball of matter sitting in an endless void for no reason, and then all the sudden it exploded without reason or external cause"

You start to get the sense that there's more faith there than reason.

epicSocialism4tw
11-08-2011, 02:50 PM
No doubt they try. But a persuasive argument can be made that determining the origins of the universe from our infinitesimal speck within is many orders of magnitude beyond human ability.

That's why you hear implausible arguments like "There was this big ball of matter sitting in an endless void for no reason, and then all the sudden it exploded without reason or external cause"

You start to get the sense that there's more faith there than reason.

Well, we just don't have the tools to define much about what we experience.

But...we believe that we do.