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troya900
11-07-2011, 03:28 PM
And Alfred Williams said the offensive line has been playing fantastic all year long. :rofl: Really?? I mean they've played great in stretches, but there's also been some brutally bad Oline play as well. I can't believe that douche is so disingenuous.

Uggh Sorry for thread title: meant to say "listening to 104.3 the fan." Not sure how/if I can change the title.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 03:36 PM
I think they've been put on an island far too much and I was really happy to see 2 TE sets and some quicker pass plays and better running options out of the gun to start slowing things down and giving them a better chance.

Still... it does come down to execution regardless of play call or formation and I won't argue that it's been hot/cold to say the LEAST.

KevinJames
11-07-2011, 04:01 PM
they have been pretty great :thumbs:

lostknight
11-07-2011, 04:28 PM
The latest stupidity is that Al & Mark think the Broncos will draft a new QB, no matter how well Tebow plays.

That sounds like marching orders from Dove Valley.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 04:31 PM
The latest stupidity is that Al & Mark think the Broncos will draft a new QB, no matter how well Tebow plays.

That sounds like marching orders from Dove Valley.

Doubt it. Besides there is no factual evidence to that claim.

rock
11-07-2011, 04:42 PM
They were not fantastic in the first half vs oakland. Tebow had less than a second before getting hit on a few occasions.

maher_tyler
11-07-2011, 05:48 PM
Run blocking they've looked much improved from last year. Pass blocking and picking up blitzes consistently...not so much!

Bronx33
11-07-2011, 05:51 PM
alfred being alfred

Tim
11-07-2011, 05:54 PM
I stopped taking alfred serious before pre season when he said the team would be 12-4 with orton and 2-14 with tebow.

I listen to the show for about an hour a day and Dmac was the only one who thinks Tebow will win another game this year.. Fun show I love the bronco talk but, those guys' superiority complexes about football knowledge make my laugh.

jhns
11-08-2011, 05:42 AM
The latest stupidity is that Al & Mark think the Broncos will draft a new QB, no matter how well Tebow plays.

That sounds like marching orders from Dove Valley.

We probably will. If Tebow wins enough that we are out of range of the top QBs, the drafted QB will be a later round backup. If not, Tebow will probably have competition next season.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 06:09 AM
The latest stupidity is that Al & Mark think the Broncos will draft a new QB, no matter how well Tebow plays.

That sounds like marching orders from Dove Valley.

Tebow even if a starter will need a good backup. One who can move around for sure. Also with Orton gone, and Quinn really not much upside Broncos may draft a QB even if Tebow wins some games. But......If Broncos somehow won the division i doubt they would, probably just go the rent a vet route, keep quinn etc etc.

cutthemdown
11-08-2011, 06:11 AM
We probably will. If Tebow wins enough that we are out of range of the top QBs, the drafted QB will be a later round backup. If not, Tebow will probably have competition next season.

Yeah that is what I wanted to say but you beat me to it. Broncos probably will want 2 young qbs on the team. Nothing set in stone. Maybe look for one with a skill set that includes some quick feet because our offense if Tebow stayed will be laden with running plays for the qb.

If Tebow did stick, like i was saying in my other post, he will need a really good bkup because Tebow eventually going to have a cracked rib etc etc here and there.

BroncoInferno
11-08-2011, 06:29 AM
We probably will. If Tebow wins enough that we are out of range of the top QBs, the drafted QB will be a later round backup. If not, Tebow will probably have competition next season.

Yeah, we will be drafting a QB at some point if for no other reason than Tebow is the only QB under contract for next season. The only question is how early they will select one.

CEH
11-08-2011, 06:29 AM
Tebow even if a starter will need a good backup. One who can move around for sure. Also with Orton gone, and Quinn really not much upside Broncos may draft a QB even if Tebow wins some games. But......If Broncos somehow won the division i doubt they would, probably just go the rent a vet route, keep quinn etc etc.

So if the zone read is here to stay does that limit our backup QB options?
You can't bring in a drop back passer when the offense is centered around the zone read. Still believe is was a short term solution and Tim need to become more of a pocket passer. Something like 18-30 205 yards 2 TDs (guess who won last night with those stats and a solid running game)

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 07:00 AM
So if the zone read is here to stay does that limit our backup QB options?
You can't bring in a drop back passer when the offense is centered around the zone read. Still believe is was a short term solution and Tim need to become more of a pocket passer. Something like 18-30 205 yards 2 TDs (guess who won last night with those stats and a solid running game)

I don't think so.

There's obviously things a Tebow can do that a Palmer (just as an example) can't and vice versa. No need to try and trade for Pryor because we have a wrinkle to our shotgun running plays.

LonghornBronco
11-08-2011, 07:07 AM
Homer alert!

Bring in VY....

Gort
11-08-2011, 07:21 AM
God that's an awful radio station. i put it on this morning to see what the big deal was and on their Mike and Mike show, they were really critical of Tebow. Chris Carter was being interviewed and he said that that any team that has a QB that can't win them a SB is just wasting their time. he said if the Broncos would just admit that with Tebow they aren't even trying to make the playoffs, he'd lay off them. he also said that Tebow is 3-3 and that's not a winning record. Then the other 2 turds chimed in and said they expected Tebow to be a week-to-week decision and he'll get pulled and benched as soon as he has another bad game.

this is unreal. Tebow has had 6 starts in the NFL. 6 freakin' starts! but the know-it-alls have decided that he's not good enough and that he should be discarded now. right now! F them. i am so sick of the herd mentality of the national media w.r.t. Tebow. he's our QB, not yours. go F yourselves. go jizz your pants over Cam Newton or Michael Vick or Tom Brady or whomever, just shut the F up and leave the Broncos alone to attend to Broncos business. this never-ending drumbeat of negativity from the media (both local and national) does not help the Broncos come out of this funk any sooner. the Broncos FO are the only people who should be making a decision about Tebow's future here. not a couple of douchebags in NYC on the radio.

CEH
11-08-2011, 07:24 AM
God that's an awful radio station. i put it on this morning to see what the big deal was and on their Mike and Mike show, they were really critical of Tebow. Chris Carter was being interviewed and he said that that any team that has a QB that can't win them a SB is just wasting their time. he said if the Broncos would just admit that with Tebow they aren't even trying to make the playoffs, he'd lay off them. he also said that Tebow is 3-3 and that's not a winning record. Then the other 2 turds chimed in and said they expected Tebow to be a week-to-week decision and he'll get pulled and benched as soon as he has another bad game.

this is unreal. Tebow has had 6 starts in the NFL. 6 freakin' starts! but the know-it-alls have decided that he's not good enough and that he should be discarded now. right now! F them. i am so sick of the herd mentality of the national media w.r.t. Tebow. he's our QB, not yours. go F yourselves. go jizz your pants over Cam Newton or Michael Vick or Tom Brady or whomever, just shut the F up and leave the Broncos alone to attend to Broncos business. this never-ending drumbeat of negativity from the media (both local and national) does not help the Broncos come out of this funk any sooner. the Broncos FO are the only people who should be making a decision about Tebow's future here. not a couple of douchebags in NYC on the radio.

Listen to www.vicandgary.com in the morning for tons of Broncos. Right now Eddie mac is on. They also talk to Shannon and Elway

104.3 doesn't go local until 1:00 pm. Stink and Al are on at 4:00 pm

Gort
11-08-2011, 07:31 AM
Listen to www.vicandgary.com in the morning for tons of Broncos. Right now Eddie mac is on. They also talk to Shannon and Elway

104.3 doesn't go local until 1:00 pm. Stink and Al are on at 4:00 pm

honestly, i'm not a fan of sports talk radio. between the idiot fans who call in and don't know what they're talking about, to the endless drivel out of the hosts mouths, i don't think i could take much more than a few minutes of it. i usually have 850 KOA on late in the afternoon and i even find myself turning that off because they have some loudmouth, aggressive host who hates Tebow. he's relentlessly negative and whenever somebody calls him on it, he raises his voice and gets aggressive. if i wanted to listen to idiots like that, i'd hang out in sports bars (which i don't!). sadly, there's enough idiocy on here fulfill my daily limit. and yes, i'm talking about fat Bob.

peacepipe
11-08-2011, 07:32 AM
Chris carter is right,who the h-ll wants a QB that leads you to a 8-8 record.Tebow isn't some one in a million QB,the 1st of his kind. Vick has had several 100+ yd games & how many SBs has he won. VY has a winning record as a running QB & where is he at.

Gort
11-08-2011, 07:34 AM
Chris carter is right,who the h-ll wants a QB that leads you to a 8-8 record.Tebow isn't some one in a million QB,the 1st of his kind. Vick has had several 100+ yd games & how many SBs has he won. VY has a winning record as a running QB & where is he at.

yes. let's kill all young QBs who don't immediately come into the league and go undefeated! who do they think they are!! kill them all!! kill them i say! i'm with "crackpipe" on this one! let's kill them with long pointy sticks!

/sarc

Rabb
11-08-2011, 07:42 AM
Thank God for Sirius...that is all I am sayin'

peacepipe
11-08-2011, 07:42 AM
yes. let's kill all young QBs who don't immediately come into the league and go undefeated! who do they think they are!! kill them all!! kill them i say! i'm with "crackpipe" on this one! let's kill them with long pointy sticks!

/sarcLOL, VY made pro bowl,& named offensive player of the yr as a rookie,but still,where's he at now.

Gutless Drunk
11-08-2011, 07:46 AM
yes. let's kill all young QBs who don't immediately come into the league and go undefeated! who do they think they are!! kill them all!! kill them i say! i'm with "crackpipe" on this one! let's kill them with long pointy sticks!

/sarc

29489

Gort
11-08-2011, 08:02 AM
29489

Cutler's first 6 starts for the Broncos

3-3 record
104 of 176 for 1305 yards with 10 TD and 6 INT. (59.1%)
36 yards on 16 rushes with 0 TD.


Tebow's first 6 starts for the Broncos

3-3 record
81 of 168 for 1108 yards with 9 TD and 4 INT. (48.2%)
439 yards on 62 rushes with 3 TD.

anyone who thinks that Tebow is a bust after 6 games and Cutler was the second coming of John Elway is simply an idiot. the stats don't support it, and arguments about throwing motion and footwork don't cut it. after 6 games, the potential was there for BOTH QBs. that's all you can talk about with young QBs... potential.

maher_tyler
11-08-2011, 08:08 AM
I don't really give a rats ass about what anyone else has to say about the team or the QB. Only 2-3 opinions really matter when I boils down.

TheReverend
11-08-2011, 08:10 AM
I don't really give a rats ass about what anyone else has to say about the team or the QB. Only 2-3 opinions really matter when I boils down.

Mine and who else ???

Gort
11-08-2011, 08:10 AM
Only 4 opinions really matter when I boils down.

you are a wise, wise man.

4) Xanders
3) Elway
2) Fox
1) WhoIsJohnGalt

Jay3
11-08-2011, 08:13 AM
God that's an awful radio station. i put it on this morning to see what the big deal was and on their Mike and Mike show, they were really critical of Tebow. Chris Carter was being interviewed and he said that that any team that has a QB that can't win them a SB is just wasting their time. he said if the Broncos would just admit that with Tebow they aren't even trying to make the playoffs, he'd lay off them. he also said that Tebow is 3-3 and that's not a winning record. Then the other 2 turds chimed in and said they expected Tebow to be a week-to-week decision and he'll get pulled and benched as soon as he has another bad game.

this is unreal. Tebow has had 6 starts in the NFL. 6 freakin' starts! but the know-it-alls have decided that he's not good enough and that he should be discarded now. right now! F them. i am so sick of the herd mentality of the national media w.r.t. Tebow. he's our QB, not yours. go F yourselves. go jizz your pants over Cam Newton or Michael Vick or Tom Brady or whomever, just shut the F up and leave the Broncos alone to attend to Broncos business. this never-ending drumbeat of negativity from the media (both local and national) does not help the Broncos come out of this funk any sooner. the Broncos FO are the only people who should be making a decision about Tebow's future here. not a couple of douchebags in NYC on the radio.

But their tears are delicious when he wins.

hambone13
11-08-2011, 11:53 PM
But their tears are delicious when he wins.

That's a beautifully poetic statement. There are no stats to not let him try and he doesn't give a ****. I'm not an avid supporter but for **** sake, if we had another wild card with the much heart without so much hype, we'd have not problem.

MacGruder
11-09-2011, 12:30 AM
But their tears are delicious when he wins.

I actually feel bad for people like this. they have missed out on and are missing out on one of the greatest athletes ever IMO.

Guys like this come along very rarely.

I don't see how someone could like football and not like watching Tebow play.

The same goes for Elway and Fox, too.. It just seems like something has gone horribly wrong in football.. and it has been going on for decades. People have become focused on the totally wrong aspects of football.

I also think in football now people confuse TEAM success with great QBing. And there is no way to separate them. Aaron Rodgers is a great example of this IMO. Drew Brees is a great recent example of this.. so is Eli Manning when he won.. Tom Brady every year.

Peyton Manning was almost totally underrated for the same reason.. he didn't have a stellar team around him.

Oh yeah.. and not only are these guys wrong for trashing Tebow.. but check out this game.. do you see people railing against Josh Freeman who has been in the league for years?

Lost to 9ers 3-48

J. Freeman 17/33 187yards 5.7avg 0TDs 2int 43.4passer rating

Armchair Bronco
11-09-2011, 01:18 AM
Skip Bayless thinks the Broncos should just trade Tebow right now since Elway and Fox clearly don't want him to succeed and are actively working behind the scenes to sabotage him.

On the Jim Rome show, Elway couldn't make a single positive statement without balancing it with a negative comment or a call for Tebow to "show more improvement". And the notion that Tebow's status as Denver's starter is "week to week" is just a joke. Skip said that no Front Office that believes in their starting QB would ever say something like like.

My prediction is that Tebow will probably end up with a team like Jacksonville and go on to great things. And Elway, Fox, Xanders, and Bowlen will be making excuses for the next decade. "We're happy things worked out for Tebow and that the Jags have deep playoff runs each year; but he just wasn't a good fit for us here in Denver."

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 01:30 AM
Cutler's first 6 starts for the Broncos

3-3 record
104 of 176 for 1305 yards with 10 TD and 6 INT. (59.1%)
36 yards on 16 rushes with 0 TD.


Tebow's first 6 starts for the Broncos

3-3 record
81 of 168 for 1108 yards with 9 TD and 4 INT. (48.2%)
439 yards on 62 rushes with 3 TD.

anyone who thinks that Tebow is a bust after 6 games and Cutler was the second coming of John Elway is simply an idiot. the stats don't support it, and arguments about throwing motion and footwork don't cut it. after 6 games, the potential was there for BOTH QBs. that's all you can talk about with young QBs... potential.

Cutler began playing with a team that was 7-4 and coming off of an AFC Championship game appearance.

Tebow is playing with the second-worst team in the league coming off of a coaching change and a messed up offseason. Its really impressive considering the circumstances.

Armchair Bronco
11-09-2011, 01:33 AM
Cutler began playing with a team that was 7-4 and coming off of an AFC Championship game appearance.

Tebow is playing with the second-worst team in the league coming off of a coaching change and a messed up offseason. Its really impressive considering the circumstances.

But aren't you forgetting about Tebow's bad footwork and his awkward throwing style? Isn't that more important than wins and losses? I listened to the Elway interview w/ Jim Rome, and apparently these intangibles trump wins and losses.

Cam Newton looks great this year - he's having one of the all-time great rookie seasons. His footwork is amazing, and he has accurate throws. He also has a 2-6 record.

eddie mac
11-09-2011, 05:03 AM
People are getting overexcited by the zoneread runs in the 2nd half of one game. Let's see if McCoy/Fox can execute anything similar in games down the stretch, as you are only ever as good as your last game. Right now we are good, next week we could be ****.

MplsBronco
11-09-2011, 05:37 AM
Skip Bayless thinks the Broncos should just trade Tebow right now since Elway and Fox clearly don't want him to succeed and are actively working behind the scenes to sabotage him.

On the Jim Rome show, Elway couldn't make a single positive statement without balancing it with a negative comment or a call for Tebow to "show more improvement". And the notion that Tebow's status as Denver's starter is "week to week" is just a joke. Skip said that no Front Office that believes in their starting QB would ever say something like like.

My prediction is that Tebow will probably end up with a team like Jacksonville and go on to great things. And Elway, Fox, Xanders, and Bowlen will be making excuses for the next decade. "We're happy things worked out for Tebow and that the Jags have deep playoff runs each year; but he just wasn't a good fit for us here in Denver."


Spot on. And that's when I probably stop watching the NFL because my favorite team will have become a disgrace and I just can't care anymore.

Jay3
11-09-2011, 05:42 AM
Why do people always suggest Jacksonville as a landing spot for Tebow? The management there hates him. And they just picked Gabbert.

cutthemdown
11-09-2011, 06:21 AM
Why do people always suggest Jacksonville as a landing spot for Tebow? The management there hates him. And they just picked Gabbert.

Shhh just let them orate their brilliance for us all.

Elway is just letting Tebow know he has to work super hard. He got the job because Orton stunk and in those situations it's always week to week with your qb. Watching him throw you can see why he didn't win it in preseason right?

I don't think Tebow will be too damaged by this. In fact he may even thrive on it. Trust me he beats some good teams Elway will start to say better things.

CEH
11-09-2011, 06:45 AM
Shhh just let them orate their brilliance for us all.

Elway is just letting Tebow know he has to work super hard. He got the job because Orton stunk and in those situations it's always week to week with your qb. Watching him throw you can see why he didn't win it in preseason right?

I don't think Tebow will be too damaged by this. In fact he may even thrive on it. Trust me he beats some good teams Elway will start to say better things.

As the season goes on and if Tim continues to win his stock will rise in the eyes of the other players. Like Champ said, " As long as we are winning"

Kinda sacreligious, but with Tebow it's really is "Just win baby"

Ray Finkle
11-09-2011, 06:54 AM
I don't really give a rats ass about what anyone else has to say about the team or the QB. Only 2-3 opinions really matter when I boils down.

Ray Mother ****ing Finkle and the rest are pretenders... :D

TonyR
11-09-2011, 07:05 AM
...anyone who thinks that Tebow is a bust after 6 games and Cutler was the second coming of John Elway is simply an idiot. the stats don't support it, and arguments about throwing motion and footwork don't cut it. after 6 games, the potential was there for BOTH QBs. that's all you can talk about with young QBs... potential.

I understand what you're saying but don't necessarily agree with the comparison you're making. Cutler showed flashes of his great talent. And while Tebow can do things Cutler can't (namely effectively running the zone read and such) Tebow doesn't remotely show the same potential as a passer. I'm not sure you can have a long term future as an NFL QB running a zone read type of offense. You just can't let your QB take that kind of punishment, and that's why you don't see college style offenses run in the NFL. Tebow has to prove he can be a passing QB at some point. Completing 10 passes a game isn't going to get it done longer term. I'm not ready to give up on him after 6 starts but you have to admit he has a long way to go and very well may never get there. Cutler came into the league with skill and abilities as a passer that Tebow may never have. Lot's of people are getting excited about what they saw against the Raiders, and understandably so. We're Broncos fans, we're rooting for the team and for Tebow, and winning and success is fun. But at the same time I think a lot of people are already forgetting what happened against Detroit. Let's see what happens over the next few weeks and go from there.

Jay3
11-09-2011, 07:46 AM
I I'm not sure you can have a long term future as an NFL QB running a zone read type of offense.

It's not a type of offense. It's a running play out of shotgun, which is a very desirable thing.

CEH
11-09-2011, 07:53 AM
It's not a type of offense. It's a running play out of shotgun, which is a very desirable thing.


It's not just another running play. Blocking schemes are designed around the zone read. The health of the QB is called into question. How many QBs rush 11 times x 16 games. 180 times a year the QB is hit. Like those odds? Lets see where Tebow is at the end of the year. All it takes is one hit and your offense is crap unless you have another zone read QB ready to execute this offense.


I think that is the main long term issue. Can Tebow survive an NFL season?Let's start with the next 11 games

TonyR
11-09-2011, 08:17 AM
The health of the QB is called into question. How many QBs rush 11 times x 16 games. 180 times a year the QB is hit. Like those odds?

Yup. The whole article linked below is worth a read, particularly for those who aren't grasping the issue here.


Tebow took 17 hits Sunday, including sacks, rushing attempts, hits in the pocket as he threw and plays that were wiped away because of a penalty. By contrast the Saints' Drew Brees took three and the Packers' Aaron Rodgers had five, four of them sacks.

Draw that out for a 16-game season and Tebow would be on pace for 272 hits, many when he is a runner and even helmet-to-helmet contact is permitted on a running play if the defender doesn't launch himself into the tackle.

Read more: Broncos deciding whether to go option full-time - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19294314#ixzz1dE33M9kE
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Irish Stout
11-09-2011, 08:20 AM
honestly, i'm not a fan of sports talk radio. between the idiot fans who call in and don't know what they're talking about, to the endless drivel out of the hosts mouths, i don't think i could take much more than a few minutes of it. i usually have 850 KOA on late in the afternoon and i even find myself turning that off because they have some loudmouth, aggressive host who hates Tebow. he's relentlessly negative and whenever somebody calls him on it, he raises his voice and gets aggressive. if i wanted to listen to idiots like that, i'd hang out in sports bars (which i don't!). sadly, there's enough idiocy on here fulfill my daily limit. and yes, i'm talking about fat Bob.

850 KOA sports stuff is pretty awful anymore. Really, the best home based views your likely to get on the radio are with Vic and Gary on 102.3 before 9am. Check it out and get back to us.

CEH
11-09-2011, 08:27 AM
Yup. The whole article linked below is worth a read, particularly for those who aren't grasping the issue here.


Tebow took 17 hits Sunday, including sacks, rushing attempts, hits in the pocket as he threw and plays that were wiped away because of a penalty. By contrast the Saints' Drew Brees took three and the Packers' Aaron Rodgers had five, four of them sacks.

Draw that out for a 16-game season and Tebow would be on pace for 272 hits, many when he is a runner and even helmet-to-helmet contact is permitted on a running play if the defender doesn't launch himself into the tackle.

Read more: Broncos deciding whether to go option full-time - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19294314#ixzz1dE33M9kE
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

So the Denver Post is posting the same stuff I just said yesterday about the number of hits Tebow took last week vs Brees. Interesting

Hey if we can win with Tebow running I will be all for it. The question is does EFX take the risk? QB is the most important position. Once you go to your backup due to injury I think you're screwed for that season.

edog24
11-09-2011, 08:40 AM
Due to the lockout and EFX's inability to look further into Orton's inflated stats, it seems like in all reality we are watching preseason games right now.

San Diego was more like a practice for Tebow, score was out of reach (almost), it was just him going through the motions.

Detroit, Miami, ugly preseason games, Tebow learning the ropes.

Last week, pretty good game, he still took a lot of hits.

I think we need to reserve judgment, see if he can throw better, beat some good teams, at least give us a shot to win the division. At that point, we are probably out of reach for a quality qb in the draft anyways.

My prediction is that he will throw better against the chefs and take less hits.

CEH
11-09-2011, 08:45 AM
Due to the lockout and EFX's inability to look further into Orton's inflated stats, it seems like in all reality we are watching preseason games right now.

San Diego was more like a practice for Tebow, score was out of reach (almost), it was just him going through the motions.

Detroit, Miami, ugly preseason games, Tebow learning the ropes.

Last week, pretty good game, he still took a lot of hits.

I think we need to reserve judgment, see if he can throw better, beat some good teams, at least give us a shot to win the division. At that point, we are probably out of reach for a quality qb in the draft anyways.

My prediction is that he will throw better against the chefs and take less hits.

I agree 100%. Fox has already said he took a timeout late in the DET game because Tim needed work with clock mgmt. Tim should get better throwing with more game speed. I hope that is the case. He has made some really great throws this year already. It's the ones he misses by a mile that probably have the coaches pulling their hair out

TonyR
11-09-2011, 08:49 AM
Once you go to your backup due to injury I think you're screwed for that season.

Yes, particularly since that QB may not be able to run the offense you've designed around Tebow. Which is why the zone read/option type stuff needs to be a wrinkle in the offense and not the foundation of it. Which is just one reason among many why Tebow has to master the skills necessary to be a "standard" passing QB in addition to his ability to run a college style offensive attack. This isn't a criticism of Tebow, or a declaration of his failure. It's just a statement of fact.

jhns
11-09-2011, 08:51 AM
Yes, particularly since that QB may not be able to run the offense you've designed around Tebow. Which is why the zone read/option type stuff needs to be a wrinkle in the offense and not the foundation of it. Which is just one reason among many why Tebow has to master the skills necessary to be a "standard" passing QB in addition to his ability to run a college style offensive attack. This isn't a criticism of Tebow, or a declaration of his failure. It's just a statement of fact.

No it isn't. You guys didn't give Tebow this pass when he took over an offense designed for Orton...

If this is something that hurts a backup, it would have hurt Tebow. Tye backup doesn't have to play the same as the starter.

TonyR
11-09-2011, 08:56 AM
No it isn't.

It isn't? Clearly it is. Tebow has to become a better passer. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. This is what will determine his future both in Denver and the league. Apparently you don't understand the larger issue here. I suggest you read the Legwold article linked earlier in this thread.

jhns
11-09-2011, 09:00 AM
It isn't? Clearly it is. Tebow has to become a better passer. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. This is what will determine his future both in Denver and the league. Apparently you don't understand the larger issue here. I suggest you read the Legwold article linked earlier in this thread.

I didn't say he doesn't need to improve as a passer. I said we don't need to run a pro offense to make sure the backup is doing the same thing as Tebow. Clearly, we didn't have two QBs running the same offense for the past two years. The backup, who ran a different offense, has even had better results when thrown in.

Apparently, you have trouble following a conversation.

TonyR
11-09-2011, 09:16 AM
Apparently, you have trouble following a conversation.

Have you ever noticed that you do this in every argument you have? (not sure why I'm asking because clearly you haven't...) Somebody makes a point, you disagree, they explain how you're wrong, and then you deny you're wrong by saying the person can't follow a conversation or some such convoluted nonsense. Happens every time. At some point you need to gain enough maturity and self awareness to see this and try a different approach.

I'm not going to derail this thread with a tiresome back and forth with you. Far too many good discussion have gone down this path. So I'm done with you on this. My point stands, my point is clear, and my point is correct. You can either accept this and discuss the issue like a rational adult or do what you usually do. Your choice.

jhns
11-09-2011, 09:20 AM
Have you ever noticed that you do this in every argument you have? (not sure why I'm asking because clearly you haven't...) Somebody makes a point, you disagree, they explain how you're wrong, and then you deny you're wrong by saying the person can't follow a conversation or some such convoluted nonsense. Happens every time. At some point you need to gain enough maturity and self awareness to see this and try a different approach.

I'm not going to derail this thread with a tiresome back and forth with you. Far too many good discussion have gone down this path. So I'm done with you on this. My point stands, my point is clear, and my point is correct. You can either accept this and discuss the issue like a rational adult or do what you usually do. Your choice.

That is because so many can't follow a conversation.

You say he needs to get better at passing so that the option isn't the base offense. You claim that it is a problem if the backup can't run the offense we are using.

I say that backup situation won't be a problem, as we have seen that exact situation here for two years.

You claim I said he doesn't need to improve his passing...

Seriously, you are an idiot.


No it isn't. You guys didn't give Tebow this pass when he took over an offense designed for Orton...

If this is something that hurts a backup, it would have hurt Tebow. The backup doesn't have to play the same as the starter.

Now go ahead and point out where I said he doesn't need to improve. When you do that, I will start taking this last troll post of your seriously.

Garcia Bronco
11-09-2011, 09:23 AM
Due to the lockout and EFX's inability to look further into Orton's inflated stats, it seems like in all reality we are watching preseason games right now.

San Diego was more like a practice for Tebow, score was out of reach (almost), it was just him going through the motions.

Detroit, Miami, ugly preseason games, Tebow learning the ropes.

Last week, pretty good game, he still took a lot of hits.

I think we need to reserve judgment, see if he can throw better, beat some good teams, at least give us a shot to win the division. At that point, we are probably out of reach for a quality qb in the draft anyways.

My prediction is that he will throw better against the chefs and take less hits.


I agree. I've seen improvement every week.

Jay3
11-09-2011, 09:49 AM
It's not just another running play. Blocking schemes are designed around the zone read. The health of the QB is called into question. How many QBs rush 11 times x 16 games. 180 times a year the QB is hit. Like those odds? Lets see where Tebow is at the end of the year. All it takes is one hit and your offense is crap unless you have another zone read QB ready to execute this offense.


I think that is the main long term issue. Can Tebow survive an NFL season?Let's start with the next 11 games

The difference is that it is one play. You can stop calling it any time you want to. It's not the center of the whole offense. You have some control over whether to keep going to it and asking the quarterback to run it. You can do the same formation and call it to "hand off, no matter what." But the threat of zone read keeps the defense guessing.

It's not a huge deal -- I think most of the commentators are latching onto it to keep from addressing the fact that (1) Tebow came out sharp and threw his way to a touchdown; and (2) Tebow answered the bell in the second half with a very sharp throwing performance capped by a touchdown pass.

The thing only got repetitive because they had a lead and it was working great.

The QB draws are a much more questionable call, and that's not zone read. The zone read is an intelligent way to use the quarterback's running threat, because you can tweak and control it.

epicSocialism4tw
11-09-2011, 09:54 AM
It's not just another running play. Blocking schemes are designed around the zone read. The health of the QB is called into question. How many QBs rush 11 times x 16 games. 180 times a year the QB is hit. Like those odds? Lets see where Tebow is at the end of the year. All it takes is one hit and your offense is crap unless you have another zone read QB ready to execute this offense.


I think that is the main long term issue. Can Tebow survive an NFL season?Let's start with the next 11 games

Tebow carried the ball 3 times out of that set.

TailgateNut
11-09-2011, 10:14 AM
Have you ever noticed that you do this in every argument you have? (not sure why I'm asking because clearly you haven't...) Somebody makes a point, you disagree, they explain how you're wrong, and then you deny you're wrong by saying the person can't follow a conversation or some such convoluted nonsense. Happens every time. At some point you need to gain enough maturity and self awareness to see this and try a different approach.

I'm not going to derail this thread with a tiresome back and forth with you. Far too many good discussion have gone down this path. So I'm done with you on this. My point stands, my point is clear, and my point is correct. You can either accept this and discuss the issue like a rational adult or do what you usually do. Your choice.

:thumbs:

Play2win
11-09-2011, 10:17 AM
Due to the lockout and EFX's inability to look further into Orton's inflated stats, it seems like in all reality we are watching preseason games right now.




This.

I was going to say this a lot earlier. The rest of this year is really just pre-season for next year's season.

Armchair Bronco
11-09-2011, 07:49 PM
I think we need to reserve judgment, see if he can throw better, beat some good teams, at least give us a shot to win the division. At that point, we are probably out of reach for a quality qb in the draft anyways.

My prediction is that he will throw better against the chefs and take less hits.

Maybe he would throw better if the coaches stopped trying to get him to change his natural throwing motion. Seriously, the guy won a Heisman and 2 national championships with his unorthodox throwing style. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

On the Jim Rome, Elway was complaining that Tebow kept "reverting to his old ways" in the heat of the moment. No $%!#. When the pressure's on, Tebow needs to let his instincts take over, not break down whether his arm is cocked at at 17.3 degree angle like the coaches suggested.