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View Full Version : The Tebow-McGahee Run Option


epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:13 PM
Was a huge part of the Broncos' 298-yard rushing day. By the end of the game, it had broken the same Raiders run defense that shut the Broncos' run game down in week one.

vs. Oakland week 1 - 38 total yards rushing
vs. Oakland week 9 - 298 total yards rushing.

Tebow and McGahee accounted for 280 of the yards today.
Tebow with 117 yards rushing, McGahee with 163 yards rushing.

I'll have to go back and put the numbers together, but I remember the Tebow-McGahee run option being used in several running plays in the second half and it really confused the Raidurrs' ends and linebackers.

Nice wrinkle used by McCoy. It definitely worked.

Jetmeck
11-06-2011, 07:16 PM
True but they did go back to stupid a few times with three runs in a row etc........so just like Tebow or OC is a work in progress.....................

Momentum
11-06-2011, 07:18 PM
But will it blend?

No seriously, but will it work now that the entire NFL has tape on it?

baja
11-06-2011, 07:18 PM
Was a huge part of the Broncos' 298-yard rushing day. By the end of the game, it had broken the same Raiders run defense that shut the Broncos' run game down in week one.

vs. Oakland week 1 - 38 total yards rushing
vs. Oakland week 9 - 298 total yards rushing.

Tebow and McGahee accounted for 280 of the yards today.
Tebow with 117 yards rushing, McGahee with 163 yards rushing.

I'll have to go back and put the numbers together, but I remember the Tebow-McGahee run option being used in several running plays in the second half and it really confused the Raidurrs' ends and linebackers.

Nice wrinkle used by McCoy. It definitely worked.

Yes that was a huge factor - won't work forever though.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:19 PM
But will it blend?

No seriously, but will it work now that the entire NFL has tape on it?

Now you work the pass into that set.

Bronx33
11-06-2011, 07:20 PM
It seems the OL pulled its head out of its a** in the second half and started opening up huge running lanes for willie to drive down i hope it continues.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:20 PM
Yes that was a huge factor - won't work forever though.

How do you know that?

Jetmeck
11-06-2011, 07:20 PM
Yes that was a huge factor - won't work forever though.

I heard that when Plummer did one roll out after another..........If the run game is working EVERY team will have to honor it...........

SoCalBronco
11-06-2011, 07:21 PM
Yeah, its kind of like the Zone Read from his Florida days, although I'm not sure if they read the unblocked end in the same manner. It's the same result though as that end man on the line has to worry about the QB keep if he crashes down the line and if he plays contain, its one less defender against the run. It allows you to run effectively with one less blocker. Tebow did a great job holding the ball out at the mesh point until the very last second to create maximum uncertainty for the defense. All you need is to create a second of hesitation for the defenders and you've got them beat.

Teams will adjust to this the same way they adjusted to the zone read in college: by crashing the end to take care of the back and blitzing the OLB into the C gap where the QB is running to. McCoy is going to have to anticipate that and add another wrinkle to take into account the adjustment of the defense. At Florida, they would respond to this by running the Crazy Option (slot WR and QB run an option off the OLB if the DE crashes). Not sure you can do that in the pros, because it takes too much practice time to work on the pitch relationship and whatnot, when there are too many other aspects of a normal offense that you have to work on, but I want to see how they'll react to that adjustment when it comes.

HooptyHoops
11-06-2011, 07:21 PM
They did it a ton....and the first 15 times or so, it was McGahee up the gut for 2 or 3 yards....then, they ran it another 10 times in the 2nd half but Tebow kept it on 2 occations(I think, don't really know) and they were both very good runs.....totally reminded me of college ball, but it totally was fabulous to watch it in the 2nd half....they set it up awesome!!

baja
11-06-2011, 07:22 PM
I do hope the light will go on for the coaching staff and Tebow is allowed to be Tebow here in Denver for a long time.

That is why I was so disappointed when McD turned out to be such a shiit head he woud have devised a game plan that would have made Tebow a super star. Again too bad he was a failure in so many other areas.

Momentum
11-06-2011, 07:22 PM
Now you work the pass into that set.

Definitely. But then again the guy passing is not accurate at all. So it's a double edged sword. Im pretty sure that McCoy will be our OC longer than Tebow is QB so this time next year, these are all moot points. But still fun to see how they shape the Tebow offense for the remainder of the season.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:22 PM
I heard that when Plummer did one roll out after another..........If the run game is working EVERY team will have to honor it...........

Tebow got one bootleg today, and he made a great read and drilled Royal for a TD.

When the coaches finally commit to putting Tebow and the pocket on the move, the passing game will catch up to the rushing game.

baja
11-06-2011, 07:23 PM
I heard that when Plummer did one roll out after another..........If the run game is working EVERY team will have to honor it...........

No it didn't the opposing DC's figured out all you had to do was keep Plummer in the pocket and he became a below average QB.

ColoradoDarin
11-06-2011, 07:25 PM
McGahee - 8.2 ypc
Tebow - 9.8 ypc

baja
11-06-2011, 07:27 PM
It seems the OL pulled its head out of its a** in the second half and started opening up huge running lanes for willie to drive down i hope it continues.

Those lanes were so huge it was not our blocking that opened them it was confusion in Oakland's D that did that.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:27 PM
Definitely. But then again the guy passing is not accurate at all. So it's a double edged sword. Im pretty sure that McCoy will be our OC longer than Tebow is QB so this time next year, these are all moot points. But still fun to see how they shape the Tebow offense for the remainder of the season.

At this point, I don't see how they move away from Tebow. The guy is winning ball games.

How do you make the argument against him if the Broncos end the season with 6,7,8 wins and he is averaging 80 yards and 200 yards passing?

The passing game will get on track. Its just a matter of time. It doesn't make any sense to close the book on Tebow's career after his 6th career start...while he improves over the course of the season.

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Now you work the pass into that set.

Tebow missed Decker wide open doing exactly that vs mia. It'll happen.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:29 PM
Yeah, its kind of like the Zone Read from his Florida days, although I'm not sure if they read the unblocked end in the same manner. It's the same result though as that end man on the line has to worry about the QB keep if he crashes down the line and if he plays contain, its one less defender against the run. It allows you to run effectively with one less blocker. Tebow did a great job holding the ball out at the mesh point until the very last second to create maximum uncertainty for the defense. All you need is to create a second of hesitation for the defenders and you've got them beat.

Teams will adjust to this the same way they adjusted to the zone read in college: by crashing the end to take care of the back and blitzing the OLB into the C gap where the QB is running to. McCoy is going to have to anticipate that and add another wrinkle to take into account the adjustment of the defense. At Florida, they would respond to this by running the Crazy Option (slot WR and QB run an option off the OLB if the DE crashes). Not sure you can do that in the pros, because it takes too much practice time to work on the pitch relationship and whatnot, when there are too many other aspects of a normal offense that you have to work on, but I want to see how they'll react to that adjustment when it comes.

What the Broncos can do is have Tebow call quick slants and drag routes and run play action throws out of that set.

Doggcow
11-06-2011, 07:30 PM
I also believe Tebow handing the ball to ANY runningback is just better than most other quarterbacks. The Defense always has to worry about him pulling it back and taking off himself.

gobroncos313
11-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Tebow got one bootleg today, and he made a great read and drilled Royal for a TD.

When the coaches finally commit to putting Tebow and the pocket on the move, the passing game will catch up to the rushing game.

When that day comes our offense will start putting 30 points on the board a game! Comon' McCoy get to it.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:31 PM
I also believe Tebow handing the ball to ANY runningback is just better than most other quarterbacks. The Defense always has to worry about him pulling it back and taking off himself.

Tebow does a great job disguising the play.

baja
11-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Tebow does a great job disguising the play.


Yes that was the key.

Can't believe how much I am agreeing with you on this. ;D

Dedhed
11-06-2011, 07:35 PM
I also believe Tebow handing the ball to ANY runningback is just better than most other quarterbacks. The Defense always has to worry about him pulling it back and taking off himself.

Yup. On McGahee's big run to tie the game, the OLB and the safety were both frozen, staring at Tebow, as McGahee ran past them.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:38 PM
Yup. On McGahee's big run to tie the game, the OLB and the safety were both frozen, staring at Tebow, as McGahee ran past them.

McGahee was gashing them left, Tebow gashing them right...it was a beautifully executed set. Pick your poison.

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 07:39 PM
Tebow got one bootleg today, and he made a great read and drilled Royal for a TD.

When the coaches finally commit to putting Tebow and the pocket on the move, the passing game will catch up to the rushing game.

That wasnt a bootleg, but point taken, using the stretch play as play action is nice because its a simple way to move the pocket to a side of the field, and it confused the d perfectly.

bowtown
11-06-2011, 07:45 PM
I'm so confused by this thread. I was led to believe that all the play calling today was total garbage.

elsid13
11-06-2011, 07:55 PM
Tebow's lifespan in the NFL is going to be about 2 1/2 years (same as average running back) if Denver continues to run that play more then twice a game.

BroncoLover
11-06-2011, 07:55 PM
I would like to see the QB throw more.. but i also think, tebow running and having to stop him also contributed to mcgahee running lot more.. but my question is when was the last time denver crossed 300 yards rushing last time.. we almost got there today. Also what is single game rushing record for a team ?

baja
11-06-2011, 07:56 PM
Tebow's lifespan in the NFL is going to be about 2 1/2 years (same as average running back) if Denver continues to run that play more then twice a game.

The guy running in his back field is in his 9th season and he does it 25 times a game.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 07:57 PM
Tebow's lifespan in the NFL is going to be about 2 1/2 years (same as average running back) if Denver continues to run that play more then twice a game.

Tebow doesn't take near the pounding that a back takes (unless he's in the pocket apparently).

Tebow slid or got out of bounds on most of his carries. He can do that all day long.

elsid13
11-06-2011, 08:00 PM
The guy running in his back field is in his 9th season and he does it 25 times a game.

He is the exception and not the rule, plus he also major injuries to both knees, ankle, eye and shoulder. There is a reason that NFL running back don't have long careers. It was great win, but Tebow got beat up today and that isn't what you want your starting QB to be experience.

edog24
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
At this point, I don't see how they move away from Tebow. The guy is winning ball games.

How do you make the argument against him if the Broncos end the season with 6,7,8 wins and he is averaging 80 yards and 200 yards passing?

The passing game will get on track. Its just a matter of time. It doesn't make any sense to close the book on Tebow's career after his 6th career start...while he improves over the course of the season.

Agree. We would likely have swept the faid this year with him starting.

elsid13
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
Tebow doesn't take near the pounding that a back takes (unless he's in the pocket apparently).

Tebow slid or got out of bounds on most of his carries. He can do that all day long.

He's not superman and it only a matter of time before he gets hurt if Denver continues to expose him to potential big hits by running that play. And as Socal pointed out, now DCs have film on this play and will install it in the game plan.

bowtown
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
The guy running in his back field is in his 9th season and he does it 25 times a game.

He's almost never in his career done it that often.

baja
11-06-2011, 08:05 PM
He is the exception and not the rule, plus he also major injuries to both knees, ankle, eye and shoulder. There is a reason that NFL running back don't have long careers. It was great win, but Tebow got beat up today and that isn't what you want your starting QB to be experience.

I agree he got beat up. There should have been more RTP flags and in time there will be.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 08:05 PM
He's not superman and it only a matter of time before he gets hurt if Denver continues to expose him to potential big hits by running that play. And as Socal pointed out, now DCs have film on this play and will install it in the game plan.

Tebow took his biggest hits in the pocket.

That's where he got his cut lip and got his head driven into the turf.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:06 PM
But will it blend?

No seriously, but will it work now that the entire NFL has tape on it?

The only way to match it is to get another QB that can do what Tebow does.. I really don't think there are any.

baja
11-06-2011, 08:06 PM
He's almost never in his career done it that often.

Would you accept 15? That still makes my point.

ozomulsion
11-06-2011, 08:07 PM
It's the same play Kansas State runs alot. If McCoy simply mimicked Bill Snyder's offense even more than he does. We would be a fun team to watch for all 4 quarters.

I'm very pleased with Tebow's progress this game, and it'll be nice to have these overly critical talking heads a bit more silent for at least a week. He's an underdeveloped passer as of now, but a great runner. I hear you can't win like that. If he would just not run so often, he'd be more like Blaine Gabbert. Yeah, give me some of that. But not really.

One thing I'm very confused about. Maybe someone can answer this for me. With so many men in the box almost every play, it would seem a quick slant would be a fairly safe pass. Does anyone know why we don't take 3 step drops when the pressure is coming, and throw quick slants? I'm baffled by this.

baja
11-06-2011, 08:07 PM
I don't think you guys realize how big and strong Tebow is. He's not your average QB body type.

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 08:09 PM
But will it blend?

No seriously, but will it work now that the entire NFL has tape on it?

We'll see. Tim did a great job disguising the fake hand off. Either way, it'll give the D something to think about...is he gonna hand it off, run it or PA pass??

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:09 PM
He's not superman and it only a matter of time before he gets hurt if Denver continues to expose him to potential big hits by running that play. And as Socal pointed out, now DCs have film on this play and will install it in the game plan.

He would be an absolute fool not to use that ability.

He dominated the SEC playing tougher than that and never missed a game. He has certainly proved he can handle the type of running he did today. He is very smart about how he runs, too.

He does need to be prepared for teams to adapt.. and they need to prepare him for any traps teams might devise to put him in a position to hurt him.

edog24
11-06-2011, 08:10 PM
It's the same play Kansas State runs alot. If McCoy simply mimicked Bill Snyder's offense even more than he does. We would be a fun team to watch for all 4 quarters.

I'm very pleased with Tebow's progress this game, and it'll be nice to have these overly critical talking heads a bit more silent for at least a week. He's an underdeveloped passer as of now, but a great runner. I hear you can't win like that. If he would just not run so often, he'd be more like Blaine Gabbert. Yeah, give me some of that. But not really.

One thing I'm very confused about. Maybe someone can answer this for me. With so many men in the box almost every play, it would seem a quick slant would be a fairly safe pass. Does anyone know why we don't take 3 step drops when the pressure is coming, and throw quick slants? I'm baffled by this.

Not sure we have the speed, that's the only reason I can come up with.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-06-2011, 08:13 PM
Tebow's lifespan in the NFL is going to be about 2 1/2 years (same as average running back) if Denver continues to run that play more then twice a game.

Most quarterbacks (hell even running backs!) arent 6'3/250 and nothing but muscle.

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 08:14 PM
Those lanes were so huge it was not our blocking that opened them it was confusion in Oakland's D that did that.

That 60 yard run was set up by a nice seal from Walton on Seymore...

baja
11-06-2011, 08:15 PM
Who is more durable Tebow or Knowshone

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:16 PM
Tebow's lifespan in the NFL is going to be about 2 1/2 years (same as average running back) if Denver continues to run that play more then twice a game.

They said Tebow would never survive in the SEC playing his style too..

Then he wwon the Heisman as a junior for the first time in college football history doing it.

Never missed one game.. while Sam Bradford couldn't stay healthy protected like glass in the pocket in the BIG12..

baja
11-06-2011, 08:16 PM
That 60 yard run was set up by a nice seal from Walton on Seymore...

My point is those lanes were freeway wide. Defenders had to be out of position. Why?

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 08:18 PM
They said Tebow would never survive in the SEC playing his style too..

Then he wwon the Heisman as a junior for the first time in college football history doing it.

Never missed one game.. while Sam Bradford couldn't stay healthy protected like glass in the pocket in the BIG12..

Sam Bradford PWNS you.

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 08:24 PM
He would be an absolute fool not to use that ability.

He dominated the SEC playing tougher than that and never missed a game. He has certainly proved he can handle the type of running he did today. He is very smart about how he runs, too.

He does need to be prepared for teams to adapt.. and they need to prepare him for any traps teams might devise to put him in a position to hurt him.

Tim got a concussion in college and missed some time..pretty sure it was against Kentucky.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:24 PM
Imagine if Tebow played with an Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson..

His running was always massively underrated when in college. teams focused on shutting him down and his finesse runners got all the credit for his ability to run and pass the ball.

Good physical SEC runners didn't want to play on the Gators because they were afraid it would damage their NFL potential playing in that kind of system like it does QBs..

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 08:26 PM
My point is those lanes were freeway wide. Defenders had to be out of position. Why?

I understand what you're saying. Just giving the oline some credit...

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:27 PM
Tim got a concussion in college and missed some time..pretty sure it was against Kentucky.

That hit was a fluke in the pocket when he hit his head on his own lineman's knee.. he took much bigger hits than that and it never bothered him.

That game he had blown out Kentucky with a horrible flu and was knocked out and missed the last quarter.

He had a BYE the next week and played the next game against LSU..

He never missed a start in college

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 08:28 PM
Good physical SEC runners didn't want to play on the Gators because they were afraid it would damage their NFL potential playing in that kind of system like it does QBs..

Um...

ozomulsion
11-06-2011, 08:28 PM
The only way to match it is to get another QB that can do what Tebow does.. I really don't think there are any.

Well, there's Cam Newton who would have no problem running the ball as much, and as effectively(in fact he proved it in college already) except he's such a superior passer there would be no reason to have him do it in the pros.

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 08:29 PM
It's the same play Kansas State runs alot. If McCoy simply mimicked Bill Snyder's offense even more than he does. We would be a fun team to watch for all 4 quarters.

I'm very pleased with Tebow's progress this game, and it'll be nice to have these overly critical talking heads a bit more silent for at least a week. He's an underdeveloped passer as of now, but a great runner. I hear you can't win like that. If he would just not run so often, he'd be more like Blaine Gabbert. Yeah, give me some of that. But not really.

One thing I'm very confused about. Maybe someone can answer this for me. With so many men in the box almost every play, it would seem a quick slant would be a fairly safe pass. Does anyone know why we don't take 3 step drops when the pressure is coming, and throw quick slants? I'm baffled by this.

Or sending a TE up the seam? Teams want to blitz the hell out of us, send a TE up the seam. Seems pretty logical to me.

SoCalBronco
11-06-2011, 08:30 PM
I wonder if MacGruder can go one month without mentioning Tebow, the SEC, disinfo or "truth comes in three stages".

Gort
11-06-2011, 08:31 PM
i motion that it now be a 1-month bannable offense to mention the SEC on this site. anyone care to 2nd the motion?

Gort
11-06-2011, 08:32 PM
I wonder if MacGruder can go one month without mentioning Tebow, the SEC, disinfo or "truth comes in three stages".

you're on a witch hunt!

;)

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 08:42 PM
If it's a true read…I'd love for Tebow to carry out his fakes…


That will take a defender or two away from the point of attack and when he does keep, it will more accurately replicate the play.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Well, there's Cam Newton who would have no problem running the ball as much, and as effectively(in fact he proved it in college already) except he's such a superior passer there would be no reason to have him do it in the pros.

i disagree.. tebow proved to be a better passer in college... and tebow never played with runners like cam did... cams entire team was loaded. the whole team was full of seniors.. they lost their whole team and cam and still beat the gators a couple weeks ago with dyer...

cam could have never carried the running load tebow did...

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 08:44 PM
Imagine if Tebow played with an Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson..

His running was always massively underrated when in college. teams focused on shutting him down and his finesse runners got all the credit for his ability to run and pass the ball.

Good physical SEC runners didn't want to play on the Gators because they were afraid it would damage their NFL potential playing in that kind of system like it does QBs..

How was his running massively underrated?


Tebow is widely regarded as one of the best college football players ever.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 08:45 PM
i disagree.. tebow proved to be a better passer in college... and tebow never played with runners like cam did... cams entire team was loaded. the whole team was full of seniors.. they lost their whole team and cam and still beat the gators a couple weeks ago with dyer...

cam could have never carried the running load tebow did...

Newton was the better passer. Newton had a higher passer rating that Tebow EVER had….by 10-12 pts.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:45 PM
Um...

just because they do it doesn't mean its right...

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 08:47 PM
They said Tebow would never survive in the SEC playing his style too..

Then he wwon the Heisman as a junior for the first time in college football history doing it.

Never missed one game.. while Sam Bradford couldn't stay healthy protected like glass in the pocket in the BIG12..

Tebow won the Heisman as a sophomore…


It's shocking how little you know about the game...

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Newton was the better passer. Newton had a higher passer rating that Tebow EVER had….by 10-12 pts.

Cam had a team built perfectly for a run first qb..which was why he looked so much better.. this is also why Florida let cam go for Brantley... and why Tebow was so unique... Tebow could run floridas finesse pass offense.. most running qbs couldnt. Any run first QB would have looked great in Auburn's team.. especially that year. This is why Florida couldn't replace Tebow and didn't even really try.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:51 PM
Tebow won the Heisman as a sophomore…


It's shocking how little you know about the game...

It was a typo...

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:53 PM
How was his running massively underrated?


Tebow is widely regarded as one of the best college football players ever.

His running was underrated because people thought he would never be able to run in the NFL. They thought Rainey and Demps were carrying him..

When in fact the opposite was true. Teams focused on stopping Tebow and others benefited from it.

Mogulseeker
11-06-2011, 08:54 PM
I do hope the light will go on for the coaching staff and Tebow is allowed to be Tebow here in Denver for a long time.

That is why I was so disappointed when McD turned out to be such a shiit head he woud have devised a game plan that would have made Tebow a super star. Again too bad he was a failure in so many other areas.

His days are numbered as a Spag guy in St. Louis. I would not be opposed to bringing him back as a QB coach.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Cam had a team built perfectly for a run first qb..which was why he looked so much better.. this is also why Florida let cam go for Brantley... and why Tebow was so unique... Tebow could run floridas finesse pass offense.. most running qbs couldnt. Any run first QB would have looked great in Auburn's team.. especially that year. This is why Florida couldn't replace Tebow and didn't even really try.

Florida did not "let" Cam go.

Cam was involved in criminal activity and was cheating on tests. He was suspended.

Florida DID try to replace Tebow…with 3 different QB's. That's right…they used 3 QB's to replace Tebow.

ozomulsion
11-06-2011, 08:57 PM
i disagree.. tebow proved to be a better passer in college... and tebow never played with runners like cam did... cams entire team was loaded. the whole team was full of seniors.. they lost their whole team and cam and still beat the gators a couple weeks ago with dyer...

cam could have never carried the running load tebow did...

Yeah, the gators are bada** this year. Truly phenomenal feat by Dyer and crew. I made my post about Cam to simply set you up to spit out some nonsense, and you came through once again.

You're right, Tebow is a superior passer to Cam. :thumbs: I figured since you were already shi*ing on this thread, I'd go ahead and have you really stink it up. Oh my, you're too easy. I needed to end this night with a good laugh. :rofl:

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 08:58 PM
His running was underrated because people thought he would never be able to run in the NFL. They thought Rainey and Demps were carrying him..

When in fact the opposite was true. Teams focused on stopping Tebow and others benefited from it.

Nobody thought that…


Plus you said Tebow was underrated in COLLEGE as a runner. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Jetmeck
11-06-2011, 09:01 PM
Or sending a TE up the seam? Teams want to blitz the hell out of us, send a TE up the seam. Seems pretty logical to me.

Tebow and our OC have work to do...........but I see improvement from both.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Florida did not "let" Cam go.

Cam was involved in criminal activity and was cheating on tests. He was suspended.

Florida DID try to replace Tebow…with 3 different QB's. That's right…they used 3 QB's to replace Tebow.

I already showed you Cam's dad quoted.. jesus.. do you need a brick wall to fall on your head? haha

Jekyll15Hyde
11-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Tebow got one bootleg today, and he made a great read and drilled Royal for a TD.

ROFL!

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:08 PM
Nobody thought that…


Plus you said Tebow was underrated in COLLEGE as a runner. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes he was underrated.. people said Florida was juts full of talent and he couldn't run.. half the people said he couldn't run and half said he couldn't pass.. some probably both..

I saw it first hand dude.. I can show you message board forums where college football fans doubted him then just like here in the NFL..

People thought Colt McCoy was a better runner than Tebow because he was killing soft BIG12 Ds his whole career..

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:13 PM
I already showed you Cam's dad quoted.. jesus.. do you need a brick wall to fall on your head? haha

Sorry, but I'm not taking Cam's daddy's word for it….plus he didn't say he wasn't the 2nd stringer either…

You do realize that Cam's daddy took money for Cam to play at Auburn, right?

He's not the most reputable person in the world.

KevinJames
11-06-2011, 09:13 PM
I'm so confused by this thread. I was led to believe that all the play calling today was total garbage.

welcome to the mane lol

play calling was great today (except for one time I rem saying WTF was that), predictable at times sure but still great because the plays caught the Raiders off guard and tebow missed a few throws, tackles missed some blocks.

they are just upset we don't call more down the field pass plays even if we win on the road against our most hated division rival.

Wes Mantooth
11-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Yes that was a huge factor - won't work forever though.

Enter the Play Action:thumbs:

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Yes he was underrated.. people said Florida was juts full of talent and he couldn't run.. half the people said he couldn't run and half said he couldn't pass.. some probably both..

I saw it first hand dude.. I can show you message board forums where college football fans doubted him then just like here in the NFL..

People thought Colt McCoy was a better runner than Tebow because he was killing soft BIG12 Ds his whole career..

Please show me ONE link mentioning someone saying Tebow couldn't run…just one…

He was KNOWN for his running in HS…

There isn't a single human alive that said Colt Mccoy was a better runner than Tebow…not one.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Tebow and our OC have work to do...........but I see improvement from both.

The second half was encouraging…

PA passing game off the zone read is deadly, especially when it's working like it was today.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Sorry, but I'm not taking Cam's daddy's word for it….plus he didn't say he wasn't the 2nd stringer either…

You do realize that Cam's daddy took money for Cam to play at Auburn, right?

He's not the most reputable person in the world.

If Florida wanted Cam why wouldn't he be there?

The record thing doesn't fly.. the whole Florida team had a record.. you think they are letting a supposed Heisman and champion go for that while other teams are paying for him to play there?

Cam struggled passing and running and he had the ideal team around him. Against good defenses he ran less but was more explosive because of the better runners and line he had.

The same is true now too..

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Please show me ONE link mentioning someone saying Tebow couldn't run…just one…

He was KNOWN for his running in HS…

There isn't a single human alive that said Colt Mccoy was a better runner than Tebow…not one.

All truth goes through three phases.. LOL

It's hilarious...

We have reached full blown "self evident" mode..

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:25 PM
If Florida wanted Cam why wouldn't he be there?

The record thing doesn't fly.. the whole Florida team had a record.. you think they are letting a supposed Heisman and champion go for that while other teams are paying for him to play there?

Cam struggled passing and running and he had the ideal team around him. Against good defenses he ran less but was more explosive because of the better runners and line he had.

The same is true now too..

Florida obviously wanted Cam there. But Cam didn't live up to his end of the bargain.

He was suspended and 3 days before the national title game, he transferred. Meaning Cam decided to leave on his own terms…which is his right.

Cam did not struggle to run or pass while at Auburn. He excelled at both and is proving he can do both at the professional level.

At the NFL level, his running backs are terrible….he is doing this essentially on his own...

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Thanks for ruining a thread about a fascinating new wrinkle in the Broncos' offense with a bunch of SEC and "truth" garbage.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:26 PM
All truth goes through three phases.. LOL

It's hilarious...

We have reached full blown "self evident" mode..

So you can't actually back up your claims….got it.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:27 PM
Thanks for ruining a thread about a fascinating new wrinkle in the Broncos' offense with a bunch of SEC and "truth" garbage.

It's not really "fascinating."


It's the basic building block of the spread option…there should be more to come.


If run properly, the offense is completely unstoppable.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 09:29 PM
It's not really "fascinating."


It's the basic building block of the spread option…there should be more to come.


If run properly, the offense is completely unstoppable.

Its absolutely fascinating. It piled up a ton of yards today for both Tebow and McGahee and led to a win in Oakland.

Bronx33
11-06-2011, 09:29 PM
So you can't actually back up your claims….got it.


Thats one of the phases...

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Its absolutely fascinating. It piled up a ton of yards today for both Tebow and McGahee and led to a win in Oakland.

But…it's SO simple.


Leave the defensive end unblocked and read his pursuit. Based on that, you give or keep…


It's football in it's most basic form…


The big gains off this simple play aren't an accident. That one play moves linebackers around like pawns. PA off this play not only moves LBers, but safeties as well….it's devastating.


Tebow, Newton, Vince Young, Michael Vick, Alex Smith and many more have ripped college defenses using this simple offense.


Check this out:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5rP8-pkMX8


The offense is simple for a season...

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:32 PM
So you can't actually back up your claims….got it.

Youre a LITTLE late

I backed up the cam claim and you still refuse to believe it.. why should I bother..

bronco militia
11-06-2011, 09:34 PM
http://www.madduxsports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/air-force-football-300x168.jpg

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:36 PM
Florida obviously wanted Cam there. But Cam didn't live up to his end of the bargain.

He was suspended and 3 days before the national title game, he transferred. Meaning Cam decided to leave on his own terms…which is his right.

Cam did not struggle to run or pass while at Auburn. He excelled at both and is proving he can do both at the professional level.

At the NFL level, his running backs are terrible….he is doing this essentially on his own...

WTF?

The rest is wrong but the bolded is unbelievable..

Tell me.. if Cam is such a great runner and passer why doesn't he make the runners around him look good like Tebow?

Bob's your Information Minister
11-06-2011, 09:41 PM
Won't work against good defenses.

Fun gimmick good for a couple regular season wins, though.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:41 PM
WTF?

The rest is wrong but the bolded is unbelievable..

Tell me.. if Cam is such a great runner and passer why doesn't he make the runners around him look good like Tebow?

Newton and the Panthers don't run the spread option. They run a pro style offense that 2-4 times a game run spread option gimmicks.

And please….tell me where I'm wrong with everything else I said.

And it's not Tebow that makes Willis Mcgahee. It's the spread option scheme.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:42 PM
Won't work against good defenses.

Fun gimmick good for a couple regular season wins, though.

See you next week...

Bob's your Information Minister
11-06-2011, 09:43 PM
See you next week...

The Chiefs are going to crush Tebow like a grape beneath their feet.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Newton and the Panthers don't run the spread option. They run a pro style offense that 2-4 times a game run spread option gimmicks.

And please….tell me where I'm wrong with everything else I said.

And it's not Tebow that makes Willis Mcgahee. It's the spread option scheme.

So why doesn't everyone run it then?

Play2win
11-06-2011, 09:46 PM
Tim got a concussion in college and missed some time..pretty sure it was against Kentucky.

I remember when he got obliterated in college. I thought he would be out for at least a month. But, they had a bye, and he started their very next game, if I remember correctly. I couldn't believe he didn't miss any time, after the way he was laid out.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:48 PM
So why doesn't everyone run it then?

Everyone is pretty much running it in HS and college. More so in HS.

It won't be prevalent in the NFL because too much money is paid to NFL QB's. Plus NFL defenses are typically loaded with amazing athletes that can control mobile QB's…and more importantly hurt those mobile QB's.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 09:48 PM
The Chiefs are going to crush Tebow like a grape beneath their feet.

How did your boys do today?

Orange4Life
11-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Won't work against good defenses.

Fun gimmick good for a couple regular season wins, though.

Good thing we have a couple weeks before we play any good teams dip ****

Momentum
11-06-2011, 10:08 PM
At this point, I don't see how they move away from Tebow. The guy is winning ball games.

How do you make the argument against him if the Broncos end the season with 6,7,8 wins and he is averaging 80 yards and 200 yards passing?

The passing game will get on track. Its just a matter of time. It doesn't make any sense to close the book on Tebow's career after his 6th career start...while he improves over the course of the season.

We are kind of winning in spite of him not being a good passer. The novelty will eventually wear off, and he's going to have to pass the ball to win games. I guarantee the Broncos first round pick is a quarterback. Espeically if Barkley comes out and he's on the board there is no way we don't pick him.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 10:11 PM
I guarantee the Broncos first round pick is a quarterback.

That's a silly prediction at this point.

Momentum
11-06-2011, 10:14 PM
That's a silly prediction at this point.

So we roll with Tebow and the spread option for the next 2-4 years?

The kid would take a pounding. He took some nice shots today.

epicSocialism4tw
11-06-2011, 10:19 PM
So we roll with Tebow and the spread option for the next 2-4 years?

The kid would take a pounding. He took some nice shots today.

Tebow will grow as a player.

I'm much more certain about that than any fan prediction on a fan website.

StugotsIII
11-06-2011, 10:21 PM
So we roll with Tebow and the spread option for the next 2-4 years?

The kid would take a pounding. He took some nice shots today.

He will absolutely take a pounding…

But…the offense CAN and has been effective early on…

Look at McGahee's two TD runs…the LBers freeze because they don't know who has the ball…

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 10:44 PM
So we roll with Tebow and the spread option for the next 2-4 years?

The kid would take a pounding. He took some nice shots today.

You are forgetting that his passing will develop more. It isn't as if he isn't a capable passer. He just isn't comfortable in NFL offenses yet.

When he is more acclimated he can run less.. he just has to run more than his opposing QB and they will have no way to match that advantage.

Kaylore
11-06-2011, 10:48 PM
Tebow sells a mean play action. If he can throw at an even average degree of efficacy it will make a lot of safeties step on their own dicks.

enjolras
11-06-2011, 11:14 PM
I don't see how anyone can say (at this point) that Tebow won't develop into a competent NFL passer. Watch the second half. I have NO IDEA what clicked into place, but on that first drive Tebow looked great. He was fluid. His footwork and his drop where far better than anything I've seen from him. That held up for most of the second half. He just didn't throw the ball because the running game was kind of effective.

So he CAN do it, now the question is can he slow the game down and do that more consistently. I think he took some big strides today. Hell I can only think of one really bad pass (the overthrow of J. Thomas in the first half)... that's night and day compared to last week.

KevinJames
11-06-2011, 11:27 PM
So we roll with Tebow and the spread option for the next 2-4 years?

The kid would take a pounding. He took some nice shots today.

Stop worrying about the next 2-4 years, let the situation just play out.

Tebow should be the QB for this year now, and we can let the front office decide if he should stick around after that. If he shows strides as a passer and we can do what people say was impossible and win 7 or 8 games it will be hard not to want to keep him around.

Popps
11-06-2011, 11:43 PM
Yeah, its kind of like the Zone Read from his Florida days, although I'm not sure if they read the unblocked end in the same manner. It's the same result though as that end man on the line has to worry about the QB keep if he crashes down the line and if he plays contain, its one less defender against the run. It allows you to run effectively with one less blocker. Tebow did a great job holding the ball out at the mesh point until the very last second to create maximum uncertainty for the defense. All you need is to create a second of hesitation for the defenders and you've got them beat.

Teams will adjust to this the same way they adjusted to the zone read in college: by crashing the end to take care of the back and blitzing the OLB into the C gap where the QB is running to. McCoy is going to have to anticipate that and add another wrinkle to take into account the adjustment of the defense. At Florida, they would respond to this by running the Crazy Option (slot WR and QB run an option off the OLB if the DE crashes). Not sure you can do that in the pros, because it takes too much practice time to work on the pitch relationship and whatnot, when there are too many other aspects of a normal offense that you have to work on, but I want to see how they'll react to that adjustment when it comes.

A+ post

Borks147
11-07-2011, 12:05 AM
A+ post

Not surprising, noting the source.

cutthemdown
11-07-2011, 12:07 AM
The good news is Tebow played well enough to play again next week. Maybe he will figure out how to get the ball out in time, in his own way, enough to win. He is deadly with his legs which makes the RB have less attention. Its like a run run play action. The defenders freeze wondering if Tebow is keeping it.

When or if Broncos oline got really good you would think some sort of fake to the RB, Tebow acts like hes keeping, then pulls up and bombs it downfield would be doable.

Wes Mantooth
11-07-2011, 12:28 AM
Won't work against good defenses.

Fun gimmick good for a couple regular season wins, though.

thank goodness we are not playing a good defense next week.

ColoradoDarin
11-07-2011, 04:41 AM
I don't see how anyone can say (at this point) that Tebow won't develop into a competent NFL passer. Watch the second half. I have NO IDEA what clicked into place, but on that first drive Tebow looked great. He was fluid. His footwork and his drop where far better than anything I've seen from him. That held up for most of the second half. He just didn't throw the ball because the running game was kind of effective.

So he CAN do it, now the question is can he slow the game down and do that more consistently. I think he took some big strides today. Hell I can only think of one really bad pass (the overthrow of J. Thomas in the first half)... that's night and day compared to last week.

I think the answer to 1 is 2. He hadn't taken any snaps with the 1s since the first day of camp prior to being named the starter. I think it was Shanahan who used to talk about playing 1 quarter for every game you missed to get your timing/speed/rhythm/rustoleum back. He looked a lot more comfortable with the speed of the game - and it showed up in the rest of his game.

Jay3
11-07-2011, 05:30 AM
On this idea of other teams getting film and stopping it.

Yes, that's how it works. But the first step is running something to a dominant success level so that defenses have to adjust.

You can't get anywhere until you first run something so successfully that the defenses must adjust. That's called dictating.

And being a good team consists of constantly doing that, then coming up with new stuff, etc.

The key is that you don't have to jettison the previous thing that worked when you adjust. You keep it all. Before long, you have multiple things that are hard to stop unless the defense adjusts out of its base coverages, and they can't adjust to everything.

cutthemdown
11-07-2011, 06:21 AM
Tebow sells a mean play action. If he can throw at an even average degree of efficacy it will make a lot of safeties step on their own *****.

He will have to dot the i's, cross the t's on every little aspect of playing qb. Thats the only way he makes up for a wobbly pass and a slow release. He has to sell every play fake, get a really good hard count developed to draw off and slow down dline, get some pump faking going on maybe just with his shoulder. His release sort of slow not sure what his pump fake would look like because it would take so long. He just need some sort of way to be sneakier ala drew brees who makes up for being small by being scrappy.

Momentum
11-07-2011, 11:06 AM
You are forgetting that his passing will develop more. It isn't as if he isn't a capable passer. He just isn't comfortable in NFL offenses yet.

When he is more acclimated he can run less.. he just has to run more than his opposing QB and they will have no way to match that advantage.

I have no faith in Tim Tebow throwing the ball. I've seen enough games to know he can't complete higher than 48%. That just isn't good enough IMO.

bronclvr
11-07-2011, 11:08 AM
Isn't it great that we beat an NFL Team with mostly College plays?

bowtown
11-07-2011, 11:34 AM
Isn't it great that we beat an NFL Team with mostly College plays?

That's the little known SEC Effect.

Popps
11-07-2011, 11:47 AM
I don't see how anyone can say (at this point) that Tebow won't develop into a competent NFL passer. Watch the second half. I have NO IDEA what clicked into place, but on that first drive Tebow looked great. He was fluid. His footwork and his drop where far better than anything I've seen from him. That held up for most of the second half. He just didn't throw the ball because the running game was kind of effective.

So he CAN do it, now the question is can he slow the game down and do that more consistently. I think he took some big strides today. Hell I can only think of one really bad pass (the overthrow of J. Thomas in the first half)... that's night and day compared to last week.

He just doesn't throw a good ball most of the time. It's wobbly and generally not very accurate. He does make a few great throws per game, though. So, you wonder why sometimes he can and sometimes he can't.
I also noticed that he looked better throwing the ball last season, for the most part. Don't know why that would be. Could he have added a bit too much bulk? Seems unlikely, but he really did throw a better ball last season.

Kaylore has it right, though. If he can learn to throw with ANY kind of consistency... he could really be deadly.

underrated29
11-07-2011, 11:52 AM
once teams get film on it? seriously?


Did anyone read what the raiders were saying? The raiders practiced on that play the Entire week! They still could not stop it even when they knew it was coming.

You cant defend the perfect pass, well you also cant defend perfect execution.


The whole get film thing is crap. Find more reasons to justify being negative.

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 11:54 AM
Yeah, its kind of like the Zone Read from his Florida days, although I'm not sure if they read the unblocked end in the same manner. It's the same result though as that end man on the line has to worry about the QB keep if he crashes down the line and if he plays contain, its one less defender against the run. It allows you to run effectively with one less blocker. Tebow did a great job holding the ball out at the mesh point until the very last second to create maximum uncertainty for the defense. All you need is to create a second of hesitation for the defenders and you've got them beat.

Teams will adjust to this the same way they adjusted to the zone read in college: by crashing the end to take care of the back and blitzing the OLB into the C gap where the QB is running to. McCoy is going to have to anticipate that and add another wrinkle to take into account the adjustment of the defense. At Florida, they would respond to this by running the Crazy Option (slot WR and QB run an option off the OLB if the DE crashes). Not sure you can do that in the pros, because it takes too much practice time to work on the pitch relationship and whatnot, when there are too many other aspects of a normal offense that you have to work on, but I want to see how they'll react to that adjustment when it comes.

GREAT STUFF!

Too bad you can only rep someone once.

TonyR
11-07-2011, 11:55 AM
So, you wonder why sometimes he can and sometimes he can't.

I think it's simply that he's a great athlete but he's not yet a good QB. The good ones can do it most of the time, the great ones almost all the time.

HorseHead
11-07-2011, 11:59 AM
I have no faith in Tim Tebow throwing the ball. I've seen enough games to know he can't complete higher than 48%. That just isn't good enough IMO.

six starts is enough "body of work"?...

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 12:01 PM
It's the same play Kansas State runs alot. If McCoy simply mimicked Bill Snyder's offense even more than he does. We would be a fun team to watch for all 4 quarters.

I'm very pleased with Tebow's progress this game, and it'll be nice to have these overly critical talking heads a bit more silent for at least a week. He's an underdeveloped passer as of now, but a great runner. I hear you can't win like that. If he would just not run so often, he'd be more like Blaine Gabbert. Yeah, give me some of that. But not really.

One thing I'm very confused about. Maybe someone can answer this for me. With so many men in the box almost every play, it would seem a quick slant would be a fairly safe pass. Does anyone know why we don't take 3 step drops when the pressure is coming, and throw quick slants? I'm baffled by this.

They ran a 1 step Quick Slant to the TE that Socal mentioned in last weeks podcast but the ball was off the mark and Fells(I think) dropped it.

We also failed at running screens, both bubble and standard.

I think the best thing to do at this point is what they did to start the 2nd half. Max protect and run down field patterns in the 5-15 yard range.

If they can pickup the rush that teams are throwing at him and Tebow learns how to sidestep rather than circling hoping to find a run lane I think he will buy himself more time and settle down and make a good throw.

The kid has a long way to go but he did show some progress this week which is all I am looking for at this point in an evaluation year.

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 12:06 PM
It was a typo...

LOL

This is like me thinking that Apollo 14 blew an O2 tank on Glyn Lunney's watch!

Broncos4tw
11-07-2011, 12:40 PM
I loved watching the game, but imo, if they keep doing this sort of thing, Tebow won't last three seasons in this NFL.