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View Full Version : Is there a coach more conservative than John Fox?


Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 06:48 PM
Is there a coach more conservative than John "I Don't Get Tebow" Fox? I don't think so.

The guy's even more conservative than Dan "Draw Play" Reeves and "Ground" Chuck Knox...COMBINED! And that's saying a lot.

My prediction is that he and his crew will never "get" Tebow.

snowspot66
11-06-2011, 06:50 PM
Well seeing as he isn't calling the offensive plays I'm not sure it really applies to him...

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 06:51 PM
The OC is his guy; hence, if the offensive play calling is too conservative and it stays that way week in and week out, then I still blame Fox.

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 06:52 PM
Not in today's NFL, no. But I wouldn't say he's more conservative than Reeves and Knox. That's silly. Of course he's not as good as those guys either...

bowtown
11-06-2011, 06:52 PM
I think the play calling actually worked pretty well today. Lots of pounding it on the ground eventually wore down Oakland's front 4 and the early stuff did a good job of setting stuff up in the second half.

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 06:53 PM
Not in today's NFL, no. But I wouldn't say he's more conservative than Reeves and Knox. That's silly. Of course he's not as good as those guys either...

Well, he's a modern-day incarnation of Reeves and Knox. Those blowhards were indeed from different eras, but Fox is carrying on their tradition admirably.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-06-2011, 06:54 PM
I thought it was awfully predictable. At one point i was calling them. Short run play, followed by play action, then QB draw. Too predictable.

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 06:57 PM
How many times today (especially in the first half) did Fox have Tebow handing off from the shotgun & then lining up under center on 3rd and long? Too many times. In fact, IIRC the first play of the game had Tebow lining up under center w/ two wide outs. Totally predicted that formation last Monday.

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 06:58 PM
I thought it was awfully predictable. At one point i was calling them. Short run play, followed by play action, then QB draw. Too predictable.

Me too. Honestly I was shocked we won today. If I know what plays are coming most of the time, I'm assuming the opposing defense does as well.

TotallyScrewed
11-06-2011, 07:00 PM
Fox is an idiot, too!

You know what play seems to work really, really well for Tebow?

The sprint out. How many times did we see that today?

Garcia Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:01 PM
its is conservative. Because we have to be. And we have to play defense. We played good defense today. Oakland just made some plays. Two of their TDs had execellent coverage.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-06-2011, 07:01 PM
At the end we had them so on their heels with the read option that it didn't matter...but lets not pretend that was a masterfully called game.

SoCalBronco
11-06-2011, 07:04 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/9994/Dan_Reeves.bmp

Sorry John, I don't care that it was 3rd and 7, the Sammy Winder dive gave us the best chance to win.

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:05 PM
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we won. Yay Tebow!

But we're winning in spite of the conservative play calling, not because of it. And Fox (and our OC) seem unwilling to really let Tebow be Tebow for a full 60 minutes. We see flashes of it here and there, but we need to see more.

Or as noted, the rest of our opponents will be able to predict what Fox and Crew have in mind...even before the played is transmitted to Tebow's helmet!

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:06 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/9994/Dan_Reeves.bmp

Sorry John, I don't care that it was 3rd and 7, the Sammy Winder dive gave us the best chance to win.

This! +1

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 07:06 PM
I think this game was a bit of fool's gold because McFadden was not playing.. With him, the Raiders O opens up and it puts too much pressure on the Broncos ultra conservative offense to keep up with the methodical style.

If the Raiders have a bigger lead they can take more risks and be more aggressive on D like the Detroit Lions were as well which puts more pressure on Tebow in the pocket.

Ray Finkle
11-06-2011, 07:06 PM
Pretty much a rookie QB, young oline, and battered D......I have no reason for them not to go all out.....too bad they lost today.....

dbfan21
11-06-2011, 07:06 PM
I remember those days all too well!

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 07:09 PM
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we won. Yay Tebow!

But we're winning in spite of the conservative play calling, not because of it. And Fox (and our OC) seem unwilling to really let Tebow be Tebow for a full 60 minutes. We see flashes of it here and there, but we need to see more.

Or as noted, the rest of our opponents will be able to predict what Fox and Crew have in mind...even before the played is transmitted to Tebow's helmet!

That's the real problem. The conservative play calling makes sense under the circumstances, but the predictability of what they are going to call is just pathetic. There are ways to be conservative without being totally predictable, but McCoy and Fox don't seem to know that.

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:12 PM
I think this game was a bit of fool's gold because McFadden was not playing.. With him, the Raiders O opens up and it puts too much pressure on the Broncos ultra conservative offense to keep up with the methodical style.

If the Raiders have a bigger lead they can take more risks and be more aggressive on D like the Detroit Lions were as well which puts more pressure on Tebow in the pocket.

Maybe, but Bush had an awesome game today...at least from a fantasy perspective - I picked him up at a FA this week and was happy to take home 20 points. I doubt that McFadden could have done much better than Michael Bush did today.

bronco militia
11-06-2011, 07:25 PM
armchair at the orangemane!!

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:35 PM
armchair at the orangemane!!

It was bound to happen. As I noted in another thread, this is actually my second time here. The first time, about a week after Taco John started the site, I was promptly banned after I said something mean about Shannyham. You'll recall that back then, there were only 2 posters in the entire Bronco nation who felt that Shanny needed to go after SB32: me and Buster T. Bronco.

But with the demise of the WorldCrossing South Stands site, I had no choice.

BTW: Where's Buster?

ColoradoDarin
11-06-2011, 07:35 PM
I thought it was awfully predictable. At one point i was calling them. Short run play, followed by play action, then QB draw. Too predictable.

Watching it with some non-Bronco fan friends and I was calling out the plays. The only one I got wrong was the Tebow option where he ran for 20 something yards, I called it as a straight handoff.

I'm still not impressed with McCoy, and I think he's been here long enough to judge.

bronco militia
11-06-2011, 07:36 PM
It was bound to happen. As I noted in another thread, this is actually my second time here. The first time, about a week after Taco John started the site, I was promptly banned after I said something mean about Shannyham.

But with the demise of the WorldCrossing South Stands site, I had no choice.

BTW: Where's Buster?

ha ha...nice try

bronco militia
11-06-2011, 07:37 PM
http://www.thesouthstands.com/board/index.php?board=1.0

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Watching it with some non-Bronco fan friends and I was calling out the plays. The only one I got wrong was the Tebow option where he ran for 20 something yards, I called it as a straight handoff.

I'm still not impressed with McCoy, and I think he's been here long enough to judge.

We should start a thread where we try to predict the first 15 offensive plays of next week's game. Shouldn't be too hard.

Jay3
11-06-2011, 07:38 PM
Eventually, they'll have enough of the offense installed with Tebow that there will be audible options in all these plays.

So Tebow will fix this at the line.

baja
11-06-2011, 07:38 PM
It was bound to happen. As I noted in another thread, this is actually my second time here. The first time, about a week after Taco John started the site, I was promptly banned after I said something mean about Shannyham. You'll recall that back then, there were only 2 posters in the entire Bronco nation who felt that Shanny needed to go after SB32: me and Buster T. Bronco.

<b>But with the demise of the WorldCrossing South Stands site, I had no choice.

BTW: Where's Buster?

Damn sorry to hear that what happened.

Hopefully a lot of the southstands guys will come over here and drive off some of the whinny ass kids plaguing this place.

ColoradoDarin
11-06-2011, 07:40 PM
We should start a thread where we try to predict the first 15 offensive plays of next week's game. Shouldn't be too hard.

It's the formations, we need to start running different plays out of the same looks.

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:42 PM
http://www.thesouthstands.com/board/index.php?board=1.0

Thanks for the link! Just signed up, and am ready to carry on the tradition of arguing for the firing of whoever happens to be our Head Coach at the time. It's something I've been doing since 1999 with Mike "Little Napoleon" Shannyham, Josh "Stalin" McStalin, and John "Spelled Like Chuck Knox" Fox.

(Naturally, this begs the question: Is Pat Bowlen actually the source of all our woes? But that's the subject of another thread.)

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Damn sorry to hear that what happened.

Hopefully a lot of the southstands guys will come over here and drive off some of the whinny ass kids plaguing this place.

Just to be clear, I'm referring to the Old School SouthStands site on WorldCrossing, not the (apparently newer) SouthStands site that was just linked to. (Didn't know about that one, either.)

Popps
11-06-2011, 07:44 PM
I swear to god, the sh#t to quality poster ratio was never good here... and it just gets worse by the day. Simply awful.

KevinJames
11-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Stop it slime theres not much we can do right now if Tebow can't consistently beat zero coverage sure he made a few good throws but he missed a few and those that he missed were really bad.

right now Tebow's best strength is running. We need him and McGahee to keep doing this if we are going to win.

Lets face it we need to play conservative with a QB like Tebow if we wanna win games.

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 07:46 PM
Conservative might not be a bad thing at times. The predictability of this offense is unreal. It wasn't until the last 2 minutes of the first half did we throw on first down. Then it was a pass/PA pass on 2nd fallowed by a shovel pass or some play that had almost no chance of working. Happy we won but they really need to mix it up in the play calling.

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 07:48 PM
I swear to god, the sh#t to quality poster ratio was never good here... and it just gets worse by the day. Simply awful.

Dude, we get it, you think crappy play calling is good as long as a Bronco coach is doing it. It's cool. Unfortunately, this message board doesn't exist to just slob the knobs of whoever is running/coaching the Broncos, so you're going to constantly feel uncomfortable.

Popps
11-06-2011, 07:51 PM
Dude, we get it, you think crappy play calling is good as long as a Bronco coach is doing it. It's cool. Unfortunately, this message board doesn't exist to just slob the knobs of whoever is running/coaching the Broncos, so you're going to constantly feel uncomfortable.

I rest my case.

Sorry about the win, guy. Better luck next week.

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 07:54 PM
I rest my case.

Sorry about the win, guy. Better luck next week.

You really lack the capacity for critical thought don't you? It's kind of sad really.

I'm happy we won, but if you think our play-calling is anything but crap most of the time you are delusional and/or retarded. I'm kind of leaning towards "and" with you...

Seriously dude, it's okay to criticize the coaches. It doesn't mean you are a bad person...

Archer81
11-06-2011, 07:58 PM
Fox is a defense minded guy. He plays for field position and playing odds. McCoy is of the same mindset, so I expect more of the same as the season wears along. That's just how they want to play it right now.

If Tebow continues to improve his footwork and reading defenses though, we might actually see something more daring then a shuttle pass to Moreno on 3rd and 13.

:Broncos:

baja
11-06-2011, 08:00 PM
Fox is a defense minded guy. He plays for field position and playing odds. McCoy is of the same mindset, so I expect more of the same as the season wears along. That's just how they want to play it right now.

If Tebow continues to improve his footwork and reading defenses though, we might actually see something more daring then a shuttle pass to Moreno on 3rd and 13.

:Broncos:

So is this why he took points off the board with 17 seconds left in the half?

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 08:02 PM
Seriously dude, it's okay to criticize the coaches. It doesn't mean you are a bad person...

Agree. As far as I'm concerned, criticizing the coaches is a right that ought to be enshrined in the Constitution.

Criticizing coaches, players, and umpires is as American as apple pie, Steve Jobs, and Hemi Challengers.

broncosteven
11-06-2011, 08:03 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/9994/Dan_Reeves.bmp

Sorry John, I don't care that it was 3rd and 7, the Sammy Winder dive gave us the best chance to win.

Nice pic, sure brings back a ton of memories

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
So is this why he took points off the board with 17 seconds left in the half?

Taking 3 points off the board was just plain dumb. I think Fox did this in an effort to show everyone that he is NOT predictably conservative, but it backfired and just made him look like a jackass.

barryr
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
So is this why he took points off the board with 17 seconds left in the half?

That was more a dumb move than anything. If there was more time on the clock and/or had a more wide open passing attack, sure, but not with short amount of time left and they do not have such an offense.

Archer81
11-06-2011, 08:04 PM
So is this why he took points off the board with 17 seconds left in the half?


No. But it does explain why they went for the FG on 2nd and 20 a few seconds later.


:Broncos:

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 08:05 PM
So is this why he took points off the board with 17 seconds left in the half?

No that just comes down to him being an idiot.

baja
11-06-2011, 08:09 PM
No. But it does explain why they went for the FG on 2nd and 20 a few seconds later.


:Broncos:

Do I have to spell it out for ya?

You claim Fox is a conservative coach that plays for field position. That is the last thing a conservative coach would do take points off the board so that makes Fox a stupid conservative coach

Armchair Bronco
11-06-2011, 08:13 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/158/068/357328_display_image.jpg?1312494623

1987 - "Listen John, I want to go with a draw play right up the middle. I'm thinking either Joe Dudek or Zeph Lee."

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1987_roster.htm

gobroncos313
11-06-2011, 08:17 PM
Yea a bit conservative but I don't think taking those 3 points off the board at the end of the half and putting the ball back in the hands of our young QB with 20 seconds left was the most conservative of decisions.

I was afraid that 3 points taken off the board was going to come back and haunt us as it usually does but it worked out in the end.

Play2win
11-06-2011, 08:18 PM
Do I have to spell it out for ya?

You claim Fox is a conservative coach that plays for field position. That is the last thing a conservative coach would do take points off the board so that makes Fox a stupid conservative coach

I think why FOX took the points off the board before the end of the half is that he wants to see Tebow in as many situations/scenarios as possible, so he really knows if his starting QB for next season is on the current roster or not.

gobroncos313
11-06-2011, 08:20 PM
No. But it does explain why they went for the FG on 2nd and 20 a few seconds later.


:Broncos:

It was actually 3rd and 20. I'm sure he was afraid of taking another sack but hey you took the 3 off the board to take a chance so go with it. I would have at least run another play, maybe a handoff or a keeper with tebow to at least try to get better field position for the kick without the risk of another sack.

Play2win
11-06-2011, 08:20 PM
Yea a bit conservative but I don't think taking those 3 points off the board at the end of the half and putting the ball back in the hands of our young QB with 20 seconds left was the most conservative of decisions.

I was afraid that 3 points taken off the board was going to come back and haunt us as it usually does but it worked out in the end.

I was screaming, "NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!" at the time.... Hilarious!

Rolandftw
11-06-2011, 08:21 PM
The gameplan worked today... don't really get how fans can be that mad about the playcalling really.

Most young QB's play under a primitive offensive system. As Tebow gets more experience, we can open it up more.

maher_tyler
11-06-2011, 08:55 PM
The gameplan worked today... don't really get how fans can be that mad about the playcalling really.

Most young QB's play under a primitive offensive system. As Tebow gets more experience, we can open it up more.

It's ok to be conservative but to be predictable and conservative is asking for a loss. We don't have a D that can consistently get stops. Oakland figured it out quick that we run on first down, pass/PA pass on 2nd and then in 3rd and long we'd either run it or try some lame shovel pass. On 2nd and 3rd down they were bringing the house. Tebow had guys in his face all game long due to this play calling. They call screen plays at the most obvious situations. I'm glad we won but it won't continue if we keep up this predictable play calling.

alkemical
11-07-2011, 06:34 AM
Damn sorry to hear that what happened.

Hopefully a lot of the southstands guys will come over here and drive off some of the whinny ass kids plaguing this place.


http://www.thesouthstands.com/board/index.php?board=1.0

alkemical
11-07-2011, 06:35 AM
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the Old School SouthStands site on WorldCrossing, not the (apparently newer) SouthStands site that was just linked to. (Didn't know about that one, either.)

The "core" is over there.

Armchair Bronco
01-03-2012, 05:04 AM
I had to resurrect this thread after Fox's ultra mega conservative schemes and game management against KC in what was arguably a playoff game.

After his decision to forego a FG at the end of the half and punt...as well as his decision to punt with 2:30 left in the game while down by 4...there's no question at all whether he's conservative.

Fact is, I think Fox is the MOST conservative head coach in NFL history. And folks, that's not a good thing!

Broncbow
01-03-2012, 05:37 AM
Tebow has bailed out his conservative offense so many times when Fox finally sets him free, yet so many insist that this conservative crap works. Well 0-3 proves that it sucks.

Tebow has bailed out this conservative offense to the point we ought to get rid of it and Fox and go with what has actually been working to get us into the play-offs, and that is watching tebow being st free, not limitted to three points becaus of Foxes refusal to set Tebow free.

Vine
01-03-2012, 06:52 AM
I am generally a liberal person in many aspects in life, including football philosophy, so it really pains me to have my favorite professional sports team to have the most conservative coach in football history.

When the Broncos ran the most ridiculous 2 min drill in history culminating in a punt with 25 seconds left while in Prater FG range, I literally wanted to throw my fist in the tv- and it wasn't my tv as I watched the game at a relatives house.

And the 4th and 7 punt was not just a conservative move, it was the absolute wrong move as the Broncos had NOTHING TO GAIN by punting. A punt was worse than a failed 4th down conversion and that was proven.

Fox is a retarded idiot.

Agamemnon
01-03-2012, 12:15 PM
Yep, this is kind of hell for every football fan who likes their team to attack the opposition and lay it out there and let the chips fall where they may. I'm honestly dreading the next few years as we manage mediocre records while constantly playing simply not to lose. It's just not appealing at all.