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bronco0608
11-05-2011, 01:05 AM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 01:18 AM
Good point... since Tebow's play will be evaluated on "looks" and stats and things like number of sacks.. it's imperative he make himself LOOK good even in a loss.

To do this Tebow should follow the Orton blueprint. Simply take what the defense gives you and absolutely no more. Always make sure to check down on every play.. throw the ball out of bounds and fall down with the slightest hint of contact for phantom sacks. If you are behind just keep playing like this even though it ensures you won't win but you can put up great but hollow stats this way a keep your starting job for years but lose nearly every game you play.

But don't worry.. if you play like this you can always blame everyone else on the team because you "look" just fine..

I would rather lose and be proud of my QB play than lose AND be humiliated by a QB that LOOKS awful even though he fights on every play and doesn't play for STATS and perception.

Sadly this ensures Tebow will never actually develop and become a great player.. he will always be a game manager and loser.. but oh well... Orton's made millions doing it and the fans buy it every time.

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 01:27 AM
The next few games are crucial for Tebow... 2 road games vs division rivals and then @ home vs. the Jets (AFC). Tebow's performance in the Lions game (at home) was horrific enough that I don't believe he can afford to play anywhere near that poorly again. It's make-or-break time.

Doggcow
11-05-2011, 01:41 AM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.

Punisher
11-05-2011, 02:09 AM
Tebow sucks the fade are going to own us this sunday

Durango
11-05-2011, 02:11 AM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.


This.

Even the offensive coordinator, McCoy, says the staff hasn't been able to re-design the scheme in a way that best uses Tebows' skills. They're still trying to run the Orton playbook, albeit in the shotgun a hell of a lot more than before.

If it becomes unbearable after four or five games, then see what we have in Brady Quinn I guess, but it seems to me we need a much larger game sample than we have in order to pass final judgement on this kid.

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 02:20 AM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.

Do you really think Jacksonville would give us anything for Tebow after watching game film of the past 2 games? Any trade value he might have had was torpedoed by that abysmal performance vs the Lions. We might have to throw in a draft pick in order to convince another team to take him off our hands. "I think" we'll ultimately wind up absorbing the loss and just cutting him loose.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 02:21 AM
This.

Even the offensive coordinator, McCoy, says the staff hasn't been able to re-design the scheme in a way that best uses Tebows' skills. They're still trying to run the Orton playbook, albeit in the shotgun a hell of a lot more than before.


When did he say this?

Cito Pelon
11-05-2011, 02:35 AM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.

I think they'll keep starting Tebow. They have some real belief that he has potential.

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 02:44 AM
I think they'll keep starting Tebow. They have some real belief that he has potential.

Yeah, the coaches and FO are clearly committed to Tebow. :P

He does have potential. But his "entourage" (fans who advocate buying billboards) refused to grant him the luxury of a few seasons to learn and gain the QB skills (footwork and mechanics) that he needs... but lacks.

Cito Pelon
11-05-2011, 02:53 AM
Yeah, the coaches and FO are clearly committed to Tebow. :P

He does have potential. But his "entourage" (fans who advocate buying billboards) refused to grant him the luxury of a few seasons to learn and gain the QB skills (footwork and mechanics) that he needs... but lacks.

Well, we're gonna find out if Tebow can settle in and make the Pro throws. I don't see any indication from the BBT that Tebow is on a leash. They went all in with him at halftime against SD and I don't see them backing off of that for the remainder of the season.

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 03:08 AM
Well, we're gonna find out if Tebow can settle in and make the Pro throws. I don't see any indication from the BBT that Tebow is on a leash. They went all in with him at halftime against SD and I don't see them backing off of that for the remainder of the season.

I don't think any starting QB can afford to put up a 3.4 QB rating a second time in any given season... changes are made when any player struggles to that extent.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 03:11 AM
I don't think any starting QB can afford to put up a 3.4 QB rating a second time in any given season... changes are made when any player struggles to that extent.

Tebow DID make it through that game healthy though... I doubt any other QB on the Broncos roster would have..

Didn't Orton already have a head injury this season?

I suspect they put Tebow in when they did because they knew he would get beatdown by the defenses they were about to face.

Orton can't even physically take the punishment a lot of defenses put out.. hollow stats don't matter then. And Tebow ends up getting thrown in anyway..

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
11-05-2011, 03:15 AM
Calling him a clown? It sounds like you just want him to fail.

Direct the hate at Pat Bowlen. Tebow is at least putting his livelihood on the line, leaving every thing on the field. It's not his fault our organization decided to draft him. It's on Brian Xanders.

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 03:16 AM
*stage whisper* Hey MacGruder.... with a 3.4 QB rating... perhaps being less-than-healthy could have provided "some" excuse for the pathetic performance.

Orton is irrelevant to this discussion; he's on the bench.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 03:20 AM
*stage whisper* With a 3.4 QB rating... perhaps being less-than-healthy could have provided "some" excuse for the pathetic performance.

Orton is irrelevant to this discussion; he's on the bench.

I would take Tebow's 3.4 and trying to win over playing in a way that ensures you lose like other QBs.

Orton's better stats are total fool's gold..

And Orton is relevant.. because if he could have played well and had any athleticism Tebow wouldn't have had to come in for him with zero real prep in the least 2 seasons..

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 03:29 AM
Very few starting QB positions are retained if 3.4 QBR happens more than once.

This thread isn't about Orton; the QB named in the thread title is Tebow.

(there's a word for the ploy you're attempting here: it's "deflection")

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 03:31 AM
Very few starting QB positions are retained if 3.4 QBR happens more than once.

This thread isn't about Orton; the QB named in the thread title is Tebow.

(there's a word for the ploy you're attempting here: it's "deflection")

Do you see what you are doing though? You are blindly following the masses..

Because everyone feels a certain way then that means it's right..

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
11-05-2011, 03:35 AM
*stage whisper* Hey MacGruder.... with a 3.4 QB rating... perhaps being less-than-healthy could have provided "some" excuse for the pathetic performance.

Orton is irrelevant to this discussion; he's on the bench.

3.4 QB rating?

andre
11-05-2011, 03:36 AM
I think they'll keep starting Tebow. They have some real belief that he has potential.

Yah

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 03:37 AM
I'm "following the masses" by unequivocally stating that a 3.4 QB rating isn't going to cut it in the NFL? ???

Tebow has to play much better than he played last Sunday or "NFL" is going to stand for "Not For Long".

TomServo
11-05-2011, 03:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.
if tebow doesnt improve, only a tebow fan could (and deserve)stand to watch such crap.
any objective brain could comprehend the difference between tebow and early Elway.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 03:43 AM
I'm "following the masses" by unequivocally stating that a 3.4 QB rating isn't going to cut it in the NFL? ???

Tebow has to play much better than he played last Sunday or "NFL" is going to stand for "Not For Long".

Then why did you use other examples? Why didn't you just say that? Because you are following conventional wisdom..

Tebow is unlike any QB that has played the position in recent history.

If you judge him by the criteria of an Orton or any other conventional QB you are doing yourself a huge disservice..

MagicHef
11-05-2011, 03:45 AM
I'm "following the masses" by unequivocally stating that a 3.4 QB rating isn't going to cut it in the NFL? ???

Tebow has to play much better than he played last Sunday or "NFL" is going to stand for "Not For Long".

SD: 101.7
MIA: 91.7
DET: 56.8
Season: 75.1

¿3.4?

TomServo
11-05-2011, 03:50 AM
i was excited about the miami comeback as anybody but i knew it was fools gold like mcds 6-0 record. it was fun but..... not to last(crap).
i wanted t tebow to rescue the broncos... but omg has he been awful.

BroncoBuff
11-05-2011, 04:03 AM
Anybody doubt this?

I do. It's a plainly absurd statement.

canadianbroncosfan
11-05-2011, 04:07 AM
I tend to agree that another one or two similar performances as last week and Tebow's days are numbered. I don't want them to be, but unlike the crazy Tebow fans at some point reality has to set in. This week Fox already had to wait to "name his starter" for the game against Oakland, that right there tells me Tebow isn't the sure thing. Two big divisional games the next two weeks should decide Tebow's fate, good or bad, for the rest of the season.

DB-Freak
11-05-2011, 04:10 AM
We ride Tebow rest of the way no matter what happens. I can not see anything else making sense right now.

DB-Freak
11-05-2011, 04:11 AM
I can't believe that people would think about the other options....

Go back to Orton? Start Quinn?

You guys smoking the good stuff.

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 04:16 AM
SD: 101.7
MIA: 91.7
DET: 56.8
Season: 75.1

¿3.4?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/918134-dear-denver-broncos-fans-can-we-please-move-past-tim-tebow-yet

It's halfway down the page...

TomServo
11-05-2011, 04:16 AM
We ride Tebow rest of the way no matter what happens. I can not see anything else making sense right now.

if tebow embarrassases himself AND bronco fans again? yes goodbye TT.
Yah pro football players love to audition for -in front of an incompitent QB

DB-Freak
11-05-2011, 04:20 AM
The hell are you saying....

TomServo
11-05-2011, 04:20 AM
us bronco fans dont give a rats as* about tebow. if he was lighting the league on fire/ we wouldnt be having this talk.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 04:22 AM
I tend to agree that another one or two similar performances as last week and Tebow's days are numbered. I don't want them to be, but unlike the crazy Tebow fans at some point reality has to set in. This week Fox already had to wait to "name his starter" for the game against Oakland, that right there tells me Tebow isn't the sure thing. Two big divisional games the next two weeks should decide Tebow's fate, good or bad, for the rest of the season.

You should listen to the "crazy Tebow fans"... because they may have actually watched him play and know what they are talking about. can even the Broncos coaches say the same? Considering how they are playing him I would say no...

Again.. just remember.. Tebow could very very easily end up somewhere else with a coach that understands him and blow the doors off. Tebow is incredibly unique. You should be lobbying for as much patience as possible.

It doesn't matter anyway.. if Orton goes in without Lloyd he's going to get killed.. if Quinn goes in he's going to get killed and put up more picks than Tebow.

I actually hope Tebow gets benched soon because the other QBs will stink even more and Fox will likely get fired unless Tebow can carry him. Unless people are dumb enough to buy into Orton's hollow stats.

That is the really bad thing about Denver fans watching Orton for so long. They expect Tebow to put up those hollow numbers and ignore the fact Orton gave his team NO chance to win.

Dagmar
11-05-2011, 04:30 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/918134-dear-denver-broncos-fans-can-we-please-move-past-tim-tebow-yet

It's halfway down the page...

It's a stat made up by ESPN this year. You have an agenda, you are using a phantom QB stat that most people are mocking this year, not the regular NFL and quoting BLEACHER REPORT to back up your arguments.

I support Tim and think he's been horrible for two games but should be given more time.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 04:41 AM
I support Tim and think he's been horrible for two games but should be given more time.

How long have you been watching Tebow?

I bet if many people had watched Tebow his whole college career you would have a much better understanding of his "terrible play"

Things are NOWHERE near as bad as they look.

As I have said before.. because it was a bad game in general the characteristics that make Tebow a great player also made the game look so ugly. Combine that with horrible coaching and it looks much worse than it is.

But the great news is that if a couple little things go better everything will flip around.. and the things that he does that make him great will show their self.

Broncoman13
11-05-2011, 04:42 AM
Bleacher report... Seriously... What the hell is going on around here???

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 04:43 AM
It's a stat made up by ESPN this year. You have an agenda, you are using a phantom QB stat that most people are mocking this year, not the regular NFL and quoting BLEACHER REPORT to back up your arguments.

I support Tim and think he's been horrible for two games but should be given more time.

I heard the numbers on ESPN and repeated them. If there's an agenda, it's theirs; not mine.

Tebow will be given more time. But he cannot afford to play that poorly again (especially against the Raiders or Chiefs) if he truly expects to succeed as a QB in the NFL. It's make-or-break time for him right now.

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 05:05 AM
He does need to beat the Raiders to get any kind of momentum going.

UberBroncoMan
11-05-2011, 05:11 AM
Calling him a clown? It sounds like you just want him to fail.

Direct the hate at Pat Bowlen. Tebow is at least putting his livelihood on the line, leaving every thing on the field. It's not his fault our organization decided to draft him. It's on Brian Xanders.

Xanders didn't do **** for drafting. It was all McDaniels decision when it came to the picks.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 06:06 AM
us bronco fans dont give a rats as* about tebow. if he was lighting the league on fire/ we wouldnt be having this talk.


Clearly Broncos fans do give a rats ass about Tebow. 5 starts and fans like you want to pull him for looking like a QB with 5 starts. That is what is ridiculous.


:Broncos:

Gort
11-05-2011, 06:12 AM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

...and the irrational Tebow hate continues.

i'm not too impressed with alot of so-called Broncos fans these days. if i wanted to be part of an idiot fanbase, i would be a Jets fan.

fontaine
11-05-2011, 06:24 AM
Yes, because the best way to judge a young QB who's a long term project is to judge him and his future solely on one game when the previous veteran QB had almost two and a half years to show he's just a journeyman game manager.

Hell, why wait for the entire game? Let's just cut to the chase and judge him quarter to quarter.

If Tebow sucks in the first quarter, he's done forever, put Quinn in, if Quinn sucks for two quarters then let's see what Webber can do in the 4th.

But just to be fair and show how good this QB assessment system is, let's give Webber/Quinn shared snaps at the post game press conference. The QB that gives the most generic answers is obviously the right choice.

That ought to fix things at QB.

Now let's give each young defensive player a couple of drives each to judge them also. That should be more than enough time.

We can spend the rest of the season forfeiting games because we've already had enough games to judge these young players including Tebow and it'll allow those guys to heal up and less wear/tear on the vets to make the super bowl run next year.

YAY!!!

ColoradoDarin
11-05-2011, 06:50 AM
Von Miller has been benched 2 times so far this year for making rookie mistakes. Tebow, although in his 2nd year, is basically a rookie (no off season workouts, plus new coaches and no practices with the 1s until he was the starter).

The solution is obvious. Cut Miller, he's a bust.....

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Gort
11-05-2011, 06:55 AM
Von Miller has been benched 2 times so far this year for making rookie mistakes. Tebow, although in his 2nd year, is basically a rookie (no off season workouts, plus new coaches and no practices with the 1s until he was the starter).

The solution is obvious. Cut Miller, he's a bust.....


Prater too. he missed 2 FGs in the MIA game. he's a clown and a bust. let's just release him because he sucks.

/sarc

jutang
11-05-2011, 07:05 AM
The team really needs to stick with Tebow. We are not going to be good anytime soon and he IS the only QB that will be back next season. Playing Quinn or re inserting Orton only makes the future direction of this team murkier.

I actually though Tebow made some progress from last week although very small improvements. The Lions were a much better team than the Dolphins which magnifide Tebow's weaknesses. the D didnt do any favors for the offense either by getting down so quickly and the loss of Mcgahee really hurt the running game.

Powderaddict
11-05-2011, 07:34 AM
It's not that Tebow looks young a young QB that needs to work on a couple things. He needs to work on EVERYTHING. His accuracy, decision making, footwork, etc. He hasn't shown anything you look at and say "we can build on that", except maybe his running ability.

He may end up a decent QB. But this is a terrible situation for him. From what I've seen, he needs so much work, on just the fundamentals of being a QB.

I really like Tim Tebow and am pulling for him to do well this Sunday. But so far he's looked lost. He looks like not just a "project", but a massive undertaking.

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 07:43 AM
Then why did you use other examples? Why didn't you just say that? Because you are following conventional wisdom..

Tebow is unlike any QB that has played the position in recent history.

If you judge him by the criteria of an Orton or any other conventional QB you are doing yourself a huge disservice..

If he is going to have a 3.4 rating, then he has to have 130 yrds rushing and 3 tds. Seriously I have never seen worst throws in all the yrs I watched nfl football. Talk about wobbly ducks with nowhere to go. Most of them so bad they dont even get close enough to the play for the defender to pick off.

If his throws start looking better, more dart like, get out of his hand quicker then maybe they could groom him. But he won't get a long time, this is the NFL.

Dagmar
11-05-2011, 07:53 AM
I heard the numbers on ESPN and repeated them. If there's an agenda, it's theirs; not mine.

Tebow will be given more time. But he cannot afford to play that poorly again (especially against the Raiders or Chiefs) if he truly expects to succeed as a QB in the NFL. It's make-or-break time for him right now.

New Total QBR analysis: Philip Rivers is primed for a second-half breakthrough, unless he isn't. Awesomer! espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo…

RaiderH8r
11-05-2011, 08:19 AM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

I pray the whole team has a good game because that blithering band of twats that trotted out of the tunnel against Detroit were spineless, limp dicked, panty wastes of humanity. They weren't even worthy of being called football players. In fact, I'm fairly certain they all had vaginas.

So as muich as this game may hang Tebow, there are 52 other guys that sucked ballzacks last week as bad or worse than Timmy did.

If your thesis holds true for Tim then it should be more so for every other guy on the field that has been starting longer than Tebow. Franklin, Dawkins, Rahim Moore, Beadles, Walton, Kuper, Clady, the entire club because few, if any, men showed up to play last week. I saw a club and sideline of pouty little girls with skinned knees half assing it around the field waiting for their game checks. F those guys. I hope the Broncos got on the plane for tomorrow's game.

In fact, Gase should be fired and left in Oakland to f'ing rot just to send a message. I guarantee any homeless jackhole from the Bay Area is a better QB coach than Gase. F that guy.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-05-2011, 08:26 AM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.

yep.

I just don't think I can watch another abysmal performance. Guess I'll be finding other things to do on Sundays.

Good thing ski season is starting.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-05-2011, 08:29 AM
Clearly Broncos fans do give a rats ass about Tebow. 5 starts and fans like you want to pull him for looking like a QB with 5 starts. That is what is ridiculous.


:Broncos:

He looks like a quarterback with zero starts. Zero ever.

Honestly, he looks like I'd look throwing the ball left handed. Are we absolutely sure he's not a righty?

bowtown
11-05-2011, 08:30 AM
yep.

I just don't think I can watch another abysmal performance. Guess I'll be finding other things to do on Sundays.

Good thing ski season is starting.

You aren't going skiiing. You will sit down on that couch and watch the games and be miserable like the rest of us. Got it?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-05-2011, 08:31 AM
You aren't going skiiing. You will sit down on that couch and watch the games and be miserable like the rest of us. Got it?

Okay.

But can I at least use my Super Bowl fund to rent a billboard because "Tim Tebow is bettah!"?

bowtown
11-05-2011, 08:38 AM
Okay.

But can I at least use my Super Bowl fund to rent a billboard because "Tim Tebow is bettah!"?

If it makes you feel better, but I'd reccomend using it on the strongest hooch you can find.

CEH
11-05-2011, 08:38 AM
I think what you will see on Sunday is what the Tebownites have been asking for a form of the Florida offense to play to Tebow's strength. No longer will the coaches be called out for not being creative. They will design plays to what Tim does well. Whether it will be successful we shall see

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-05-2011, 08:42 AM
If it makes you feel better, but I'd reccomend using it on the strongest hooch you can find.

True.

I'm stilling some moonshine in the garage. If I drink it and go blind, it'll be a massive improvement over actually watching Tebow play "football."

RaiderH8r
11-05-2011, 08:50 AM
I think what you will see on Sunday is what the Tebownites have been asking for a form of the Florida offense to play to Tebow's strength. No longer will the coaches be called out for not being creative. They will design plays to what Tim does well. Whether it will be successful we shall see

No they won't. These coaches are incapable of...well...anything intelligent or cogent in terms of a game plan, adjustments, or recognition. I could be convinced Gase and McCoy are hires just to make the Broncos org ADA compliant.

Old Dude
11-05-2011, 08:54 AM
I don't expect a lot of scoring by either offense this week.

CEH
11-05-2011, 08:59 AM
No they won't. These coaches are incapable of...well...anything intelligent or cogent in terms of a game plan, adjustments, or recognition. I could be convinced Gase and McCoy are hires just to make the Broncos org ADA compliant.

OK tell me the kind of offense to run with a single high safety , man and 8-9 men in the box? You think screens and slants will work when there are 18-19 players within 2 yards of the LOS? That is what we are seeing. So to beat that you have to throw down field and loosen up the defense.

18 consective 3 and outs when the game matters most. 7 sacks per game vs less than 2 when Orton was QB.

Typical Tebow fan who thinks it's all on someone else

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:03 AM
yep.

I just don't think I can watch another abysmal performance. Guess I'll be finding other things to do on Sundays.

Good thing ski season is starting.


Do people even remember how incredibly BAD the first game Orton played against the Raiders this season?

Orton has played for 6 years! Tebow is on his 6th NFL game.. put that in context... Orton had McG and Lloyd too!

Also.. people say Tebow needs to WIN this Raiders game to redeem himself. If Tebow won this game then that means he would have back to back road wins after Miami.. Orton only had 2 road wins in his entire last 28 games! And people expect Tebow to win back to back road games.. LOL

WTF is wrong with people...

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:05 AM
OK tell me the kind of offense to run with a single high safety , man and 8-9 men in the box? You think screens and slants will work when there are 18-19 players within 2 yards of the LOS? That is what we are seeing. So to beat that you have to throw down field and loosen up the defense.

Typical Tebow fan who thinks it's all on some else

If that works so well then how did Tebow win the Miami game and almost win the Chargers game? And almost score on the opening drive?

Play2win
11-05-2011, 09:05 AM
Well, after last weekend's debacle... we have...

Frown Cannon, Pocket Sloth, and now, Broadside...

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:10 AM
Well, after last weekend's debacle... we have...

Frown Cannon, Pocket Sloth, and now, Broadside...

The incredible thing about the Broncos coaches is they have turned Tebow into the pocket sloth.. to do that to Tebow is unfathomable coaching ineptitude....

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 09:10 AM
Do you respect Tebow's game?

” In college, yeah” - Jarvis Effing Moss

Laughingstock

Guarantee he doesnt start the 2nd half without improvement.

CEH
11-05-2011, 09:11 AM
If that works so well then how did Tebow win the Miami game and almost win the Chargers game? And almost score on the opening drive?


Because in the SD and MIA game the defenses changed in the 4th. The SD players said after the game if they wanted to game plan for Tebow they would have shut him down. In the DET game the gimmicks only work in the first drive then the old DC Cunningham adjusted to the trickery. We see it every Sunday the adjustment made by DC coaches. At some point 18 consective 3rd down failures is all about coaching? OK . Plus we see that infusing a new QB into the situation alot of times has a positive effect for the first couple games until the league figures out the strengths and weakness of the QB. What about the fact the offense has went to more shotgun for Tim than Kyle?

Well Tebow took the snaps from center better in the DET game that's improvement.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:12 AM
Do you respect Tebow's game?

” In college, yeah” - Jarvis Effing Moss

Edit: Jarvis - Effing Raider - Moss

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 09:14 AM
The incredible thing about the Broncos coaches is they have turned Tebow into the pocket sloth.. to do that to Tebow is unfathomable coaching ineptitude....

Dude, you need deprogramming. Ctrl Alt Del on your brain.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:17 AM
Because in the SD and MIA game the defenses changed in the 4th. The SD players said after the game if they wanted to game plan for Tebow they would have shut him down. In the DET game the gimmicks only work in the first drive then the old DC Cunningham adjusted to the trickery. We see it every Sunday the adjustment made by DC coaches. At some point 18 consective 3rd down failures is all about coaching? OK . Plus we see that infusing a new QB into the situation alot of times has a positive effect for the first couple games until the league figures out the strengths and weakness of the QB

It doesn't make sense though.. why would the defense not adjust to the start of the Detroit game?> Tebow walked right down the field.. Tebow also got better as the Detroit game went on not worse.

You want to know why Miami quit doing what they are doing? Same with the Raiders and Detroit?

Because it;s a gimmick.. they are gambling by attacking Tebow early and often.. but to do that too much is suicide because Tebow will figure it out. It;'s a gimmick defense that works because Tebow is inexperienced in this offense. If Tebow was as inept as people pretend they wouldn't go away from it. If the coaches weren't inept then they would punish them right away for doing it.

Fox is more concerned with protecting his D - which is his baby - than doing anything to help the offense. Why do you think Orton looked a hundred times worse than he did with McD as well?

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:20 AM
Dude, you need deprogramming. Ctrl Alt Del on your brain.

If you had watched Tebow all through college you would understand it is YOU (and Fox) that needs deprogramming..

To make a supreme athlete like Tebow into a pocket sloth is something only John Fox's coaching ineptitude could accomplish.

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 09:24 AM
It doesn't make sense though.. why would the defense not adjust to the start of the Detroit game?> Tebow walked right down the field.. Tebow also got better as the Detroit game went on not worse.

You want to know why Miami quit doing what they are doing? Same with the Raiders and Detroit?

Because it;s a gimmick.. they are gambling by attacking Tebow early and often.. but to do that too much is suicide because Tebow will figure it out. It;'s a gimmick defense that works because Tebow is inexperienced in this offense. If Tebow was as inept as people pretend they wouldn't go away from it. If the coaches weren't inept then they would punish them right away for?

I'm being serious here. Get help. You are delusional.

Seriously. Not joking man, you need to talk to someone about your obsession.

Put the forum banter on hold, and analyze your delusion and obsession. Its scary and sad.

CEH
11-05-2011, 09:30 AM
It doesn't make sense though.. why would the defense not adjust to the start of the Detroit game?> Tebow walked right down the field.. Tebow also got better as the Detroit game went on not worse.

You want to know why Miami quit doing what they are doing? Same with the Raiders and Detroit?

Because it;s a gimmick.. they are gambling by attacking Tebow early and often.. but to do that too much is suicide because Tebow will figure it out. It;'s a gimmick defense that works because Tebow is inexperienced in this offense. If Tebow was as inept as people pretend they wouldn't go away from it. If the coaches weren't inept then they would punish them right away for doing it.

Fox is more concerned with protecting his D - which is his baby - than doing anything to help the offense. Why do you think Orton looked a hundred times worse than he did with McD as well?

Seven straight 3 and outs is adjusting or are you saying the offensive coaches just lost it. We see the first 15 plays work all the time in the NFL then the rest of the game not so much. Adjustments. Again Denver is playing more shotgun with Tebow than with Orton and I posed this question to you Tebownites so please answer how would you run the offense with 18-19 players crowded around the LOS and a QB who has trouble seeing the windows. You think screens are going to work and move the team down field. I don't not with that many bodies up close. I think on Sunday you might see more spread offense but at that point it will be up to Tim to be accurate with the ball. The Florida players were the better faster athletes just like last night in the USC/CO game. That is not the case in the NFL. The separations are smaller , windows tighter and accuarcy is a at a premium or you see what happens when on an out route you throw 3 yards behind the WR. 6 the other way

Here's another simple question. How did Tim do against the ALA defense his last year? A pretty good defense taught by an NFL head coach. How about Tenn with Monte Kiffin in 2009? The high power FLA offense scored one TD and 3 FGs

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:36 AM
I'm being serious here. Get help. You are delusional.

Seriously. Not joking man, you need to talk to someone about your obsession.

Put the forum banter on hold, and analyze your delusion and obsession. Its scary and sad.

You're projecting..

Skip Bayless said the same thing. After the first drive Fox went to his old offensive ways again. ultra conservative slow it down run, run, run.

Rohirrim
11-05-2011, 09:41 AM
I hope they let Tebow play QB the rest of the season.







I'm still holding out hope for Luck. ;D

slick7
11-05-2011, 09:46 AM
He was considered to be a 2 to 3 year project when McDumb**** drafted him. We seem to have forgotten that.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 09:50 AM
Seven straight 3 and outs is adjusting or are you saying the offensive coaches just lost it. We see the first 15 plays work all the time in the NFL then the rest of the game not so much. Adjustments.

It's because Fox slowed the offense down after the first drive... this is what changed.. not Tebow. Fox went back to :"run run run. Why on Earth would you run on every down when they are loading the box? Then expect Tebow to bail the run game out when they fail? Again.. Fox does this to help his D.

Again Denver is playing more shotgun with Tebow than with Orton and I posed this question to you Tebownites so please answer how would you run the offense with 18-19 players crowded around the LOS and a QB who has trouble seeing the windows. You think screens are going to work and move the team down field. I don't not with that many bodies up close.

It;'s because Fox is too slow with his offense and runs too much.. Run the option... speed the offense up. Don't run the most predictable offense imaginable. That doesn't help Tebow. Use his athleticism to get him out of the pocket... don't force him into the pocket where they can attack him...

I think on Sunday you might see more spread offense but at that point it will be up to Tim to be accurate with the ball. The Florida players were the better faster athletes just like last night in the USC/CO game. That is not the case in the NFL. The separations are smaller , windows tighter and accuarcy is a at a premium or you see what happens when on an out route you throw 3 yards behind the WR. 6 the other way

If Tebow is so inept throwing the ball how is it th e run game is so much better with Tebow especially if the D is all at the LOS? That doesn't make sense..

Here's another simple question. How did Tim do against the ALA defense his last year?

He had a great game.. check his numbers. But the offense was very depleted that year. The defense was supposed to carry them. And he carried the offense. Tebow had no decent runners around him.. it was his run game and pass game that opened the run for them. Harvin's replacement that year was also injured.

A pretty good defense taught by an NFL head coach. How about Tenn with Monte Kiffin in 2009? The high power FLA offense scored one TD and 3 FGs

Did you watch that game? It was a joke.. Kiffin as pulling the same BS Fox does.. ball control and slow the game down. They were pulling an Orton.. they weren't even trying to sore in the second half 20 win the game. Just slow the game down and get a moral victory.

And Tebow carried them in that game, too. Their run game was the strongest part of their game because they had lost all their receivers. Also they lost their offensive coordinator in Dan Mullen.. I have long said I thought he was the real brains of Meyer's offense which is why the team collapsed so much without him. He had the stones that Urban Meyer lacked. This is why Meyer went so ultra conservative like Fox.

jhns
11-05-2011, 09:57 AM
I don't think any starting QB can afford to put up a 3.4 QB rating a second time in any given season... changes are made when any player struggles to that extent.

According to NFL.com's QB rating, Orton has had worse games than Tebow in all three seasons here.

They aren't benching Tebow for Orton. Especially after giving away Lloyd. Quinn is even worse. So who are they going with?

Rohirrim
11-05-2011, 10:00 AM
He was considered to be a 2 to 3 year project when McDumb**** drafted him. We seem to have forgotten that.

Maybe we can send him to the Rams so McDaniels can finish up with that?

barryr
11-05-2011, 10:10 AM
I will predict by the start of the 2013 season, not only is Tebow gone, but so is Fox, especially if he intends to keep McCoy as OC. This is not just about Tebow and the QB position either. They let the Orton trade or no trade out in the media and it fell in their face and the defense has not really been improved at all.

The Broncos need to have a really good 2-3 drafts and some hits in undrafted free agency, as well as regular free agency to become a real contender again. And that means not only 1st rounders making it and becoming legit starters, but also you need some 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounders at least to become legit players too, if not starters at some point.

Not only is the QB position look scrambled at best, the RB spot is not good, other than Decker, the WR spots look weak(Eddie Royal and his MIA act can hit the road) and the defense still has way too many holes.

When you keep botching drafts for a decade, this is the result.

yerner
11-05-2011, 10:10 AM
I don't think Tebow can play well enough to keep his job really. The team is tired of this sideshow. His days are numbered regardless of what he does unless its overwhelming. He'll end up going somewhere to be a backup for a long time and won't play again till someone is injured.

barryr
11-05-2011, 10:12 AM
I don't think Tebow can play well enough to keep his job really. The team is tired of this sideshow. His days are numbered regardless of what he does unless its overwhelming. He'll end up going somewhere to be a backup for a long time and won't play again till someone is injured.

Yep, agreed, Tebow will have to play fantastic to show he is the QB for the future. If he just plays at around the Orton mark, that won't be enough.

CEH
11-05-2011, 10:19 AM
It's because Fox slowed the offense down after the first drive... this is what changed.. not Tebow. Fox went back to :"run run run. Why on Earth would you run on every down when they are loading the box? Then expect Tebow to bail the run game out when they fail? Again.. Fox does this to help his D.



It;'s because Fox is too slow with his offense and runs too much.. Run the option... speed the offense up. Don't run the most predictable offense imaginable. That doesn't help Tebow. Use his athleticism to get him out of the pocket... don't force him into the pocket where they can attack him...



If Tebow is so inept throwing the ball how is it th e run game is so much better with Tebow especially if the D is all at the LOS? That doesn't make sense..



He had a great game.. check his numbers. But the offense was very depleted that year. The defense was supposed to carry them. And he carried the offense. Tebow had no decent runners around him.. it was his run game and pass game that opened the run for them. Harvin's replacement that year was also injured.



Did you watch that game? It was a joke.. Kiffin as pulling the same BS Fox does.. ball control and slow the game down. They were pulling an Orton.. they weren't even trying to sore in the second half 20 win the game. Just slow the game down and get a moral victory.

And Tebow carried them in that game, too. Their run game was the strongest part of their game because they had lost all their receivers. Also they lost their offensive coordinator in Dan Mullen.. I have long said I thought he was the real brains of Meyer's offense which is why the team collapsed so much without him. He had the stones that Urban Meyer lacked. This is why Meyer went so ultra conservative like Fox.

After the first drive, Denver passed the ball at almost a 3 to 1 ratio pass to run with a couple Tebow runs thrown in over the next 8 possession. When you throw it 39 times and only complete 13 I'd say maybe you rely on a run game avg 125 yards per game. How many times do you want them to pass if you are only completing 30% of your passes?

Once again the Tebownites come up with it's not Tim's fault is always someone else's. Fact is Tenn and Ala shut down the FLA offense his last year and I don't think it's a coincidence that both were coached by former NFL coaches

Hamrob
11-05-2011, 10:20 AM
I heard the numbers on ESPN and repeated them. If there's an agenda, it's theirs; not mine.

Tebow will be given more time. But he cannot afford to play that poorly again (especially against the Raiders or Chiefs) if he truly expects to succeed as a QB in the NFL. It's make-or-break time for him right now.This is so assinine it's funny!

After 5 starts....it's make or break time for this 1st round, national champion, heisman trophy winning QB.

Yeah, that's it....you get 5 starts....have a QB rating of 75...................and, it's make or break time for Tim Tebow.

Wow, had the Broncos felt that way about John Elway.....where would we be today???

Play2win
11-05-2011, 10:24 AM
This is so assinine it's funny!

After 5 starts....it's make or break time for this 1st round, national champion, heisman trophy winning QB.

Yeah, that's it....you get 5 starts....have a QB rating of 75...................and, it's make or break time for Tim Tebow.

Wow, had the Broncos felt that way about John Elway.....where would we be today???

Just stop. John Elway threw better with a torn bicep than Tebow has his entire life.

barryr
11-05-2011, 10:26 AM
This is so assinine it's funny!

After 5 starts....it's make or break time for this 1st round, national champion, heisman trophy winning QB.

Yeah, that's it....you get 5 starts....have a QB rating of 75...................and, it's make or break time for Tim Tebow.

Wow, had the Broncos felt that way about John Elway.....where would we be today???

Very true, but because of Tebow's religious beliefs, many in the media who are athiests will continue to fan the flames of how bad he is and help put pressure on the Broncos to stop playing him or giving him a chance to develop. There is a real hatred for Tebow and this is a guy who has not raped anybody, committed any crimes, and not a jerk for a teammate either, where such players seem to get many chances and more of a benefit of the doubt than him. It is a pretty sad commentary on our society where religion is put on the same level to be feared as criminal activity.

Rolandftw
11-05-2011, 10:29 AM
I dunno if it determines Tebow's future. I think a win in the next two games would solidify Tebow as the starter the rest of the season though.

I don't think a win is mandatory, but Tebow will have to show signs of improvement against a tough Raiders defense.

Rolandftw
11-05-2011, 10:31 AM
Very true, but because of Tebow's religious beliefs, many in the media who are athiests will continue to fan the flames of how bad he is and help put pressure on the Broncos to stop playing him or giving him a chance to develop.

It is funny you see it that way.

Requiem
11-05-2011, 10:34 AM
MacGruder is projecting again!

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 11:02 AM
Once again the Tebownites come up with it's not Tim's fault is always someone else's. Fact is Tenn and Ala shut down the FLA offense his last year and I don't think it's a coincidence that both were coached by former NFL coaches

Tebow dominated Saban with Harvin injured the season before. Saban also said anyone that thinks Tebow can't throw the ball watch that game. He was throwing the ball in the tightest windows. No team has ever won back to back BCS championships. Tebow went undefeated in his last regular season.

He won 2 championships... Florida only has one other championship without him! 3 total..

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2011, 11:07 AM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

I disagree but whatever.

CEH
11-05-2011, 11:11 AM
Tebow dominated Saban with Harvin injured the season before. Saban also said anyone that thinks Tebow can't throw the ball watch that game. He was throwing the ball in the tightest windows. No team has ever won back to back BCS championships. Tebow went undefeated in his last regular season.

He won 2 championships... Florida only has one other championship without him! 3 total..

That's great. He can join Chris Wienke, Charlie Ward, several unforgettable Florida QBs and the other QBs from Mia-Florida that have won championships and Heisman trophies. Let them gather for alumni weekends for their colleges.

Dagmar
11-05-2011, 11:15 AM
Tebow dominated Saban with Harvin injured the season before. Saban also said anyone that thinks Tebow can't throw the ball watch that game. He was throwing the ball in the tightest windows. No team has ever won back to back BCS championships. Tebow went undefeated in his last regular season.

He won 2 championships... Florida only has one other championship without him! 3 total..

And that's why you love him and why we have to suffer you. And I'm a Tebow fan.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 11:18 AM
That's great. He can join Chris Wienke, Charlie Ward, several unforgettable Florida QBs and the other QBs from Mia-Florida that have won championships and Heisman trophies. Let them gather for alumni weekends for their colleges.

Those guys didn't do it in this era with the parity in the SEC now... Cam is the only guy to come close and Tebow trained him..

It's unbelievable that a lesser QB than Tebow in Cam is so successful on a team with a good offense that is being coached right and Cam and Tebow are so similar and people still blame Tebow.. just wait till he ends up somewhere else and ends up being better than Cam..

Ugly Duck
11-05-2011, 11:20 AM
The solution is obvious. Cut Miller, he's a bust.....



Maybe Hue Jackson would trade you Jarvis Moss for Von Miller? He might - worth a shot anyway... get Fox to give OAK a call...

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 11:21 AM
And that's why you love him and why we have to suffer you. And I'm a Tebow fan.

Suffer the voice of reason? I'm not a tebow fan.. the problem is you are a tebow fan.. that makes you just as bad as homers...

peacepipe
11-05-2011, 11:23 AM
Those guys didn't do it in this era with the parity in the SEC now... Cam is the only guy to come close and Tebow trained him..

It's unbelievable that a lesser QB than Tebow in Cam is so successful on a team with a good offense that is being coached right and Cam and Tebow are so similar and people still blame Tebow.. just wait till he ends up somewhere else and ends up being better than Cam..

LOL,tebow isn't even in the same league as cam. That's saying something cause I wasn't a believer in cam comming out of college. Cam has shown more in one game than tebow has in 5 starts.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 11:31 AM
LOL,tebow isn't even in the same league as cam. That's saying something cause I wasn't a believer in cam comming out of college. Cam has shown more in one game than tebow has in 5 starts.

You are just showing how blind you are then.. the coaching difference between these 2 offenses is unbelievable.

Do you realize Carolina fans were warning Broncos fans this would happen to Tebow under Fox before the season even started?

Even Orton looks 10 times worse under Fox.

Watch Cam Newton.. ever pass he makes he has all day behind his line AND every time he throws the ball his receiver is WIDE open.

Cam Newton has players 10 times better at every position on offense. Of course no one could tell before because Fox was their coach. Even with all that Cam still can't win.

If Tebow was on the Panthers he would have less prolific stats but he would have far fewer turnovers and far more wins.

Time will tell that I am right..

McDman
11-05-2011, 11:35 AM
Suffer the voice of reason? I'm not a tebow fan.. the problem is you are a tebow fan.. that makes you just as bad as homers...

Are you kidding me?

You're not a Tebow fan? So all of these ridiculously long winded and endless rants are for a guy you're not even a fan of?

You are a crazy asshole.

Cito Pelon
11-05-2011, 11:37 AM
I don't think any starting QB can afford to put up a 3.4 QB rating a second time in any given season... changes are made when any player struggles to that extent.

Eh, many a young QB has stunk it up early in his career. Tebow HAS thrown the ball better in games, so I'll just say again that the BBT really does believe Tebow has potential and they're gonna stay with him for the remainder of the season.

yerner
11-05-2011, 11:37 AM
You are just showing how blind you are then.. the coaching difference between these 2 offenses is unbelievable.

Do you realize Carolina fans were warning Broncos fans this would happen to Tebow under Fox before the season even started?

Even Orton looks 10 times worse under Fox.

Watch Cam Newton.. ever pass he makes he has all day behind his line AND every time he throws the ball his receiver is WIDE open.

Cam Newton has players 10 times better at every position on offense. Of course no one could tell before because Fox was their coach. Even with all that Cam still can't win.

If Tebow was on the Panthers he would have less prolific stats but he would have far fewer turnovers and far more wins.

Time will tell that I am right..

Tebow can't even throw to players that are wide open so Cam's got that on him.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 11:43 AM
Tebow can't even throw to players that are wide open so Cam's got that on him.

Then how does he throw to players who are defended perfectly to win the Dolphins game? If Tebow had a great offense around him that allowed him to have confidence.. AND the prep Cam had.. he would be even better.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Are you kidding me?

You're not a Tebow fan? So all of these ridiculously long winded and endless rants are for a guy you're not even a fan of?

You are a crazy a-hole.

If Tebow wasn't a great player I would have no reason to be a fan.. so am I a Tebow fan?

If you think Michael Jordan is a great basketball player does that make you a Jordan fan? Or is it just common sense?

Maximus
11-05-2011, 11:48 AM
It's a stat made up by ESPN this year. You have an agenda, you are using a phantom QB stat that most people are mocking this year, not the regular NFL and quoting BLEACHER REPORT to back up your arguments.

I support Tim and think he's been horrible for two games but should be given more time.

ESPN has actually been using their calculations for more than a while now! It's not a phantom stat. It uses calculations that should be used. The outdated system of only using passing, completions, TD's, interceptions didn't present a realistic grade for a QB. The "Passer Rating" never included field position, fumbles or statics based on time and Quarter performance.

CEH
11-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Then how does he throw to players who are defended perfectly to win the Dolphins game? If Tebow had a great offense around him that allowed him to have confidence.. AND the prep Cam had.. he would be even better.

And the prep Cam had?. So Cam a rookie has zero prep and comes to the worst team in the league and is outplaying Tebow who had a year of NFL prep year already under his belt. Why does everyone forget Tebow is not a rookie.

Try again. Every argument you make has fail written all over it you are starting from a Urban Meyer coached QB or build your premises from Skip Bayless . Maybe Urban will get a job coaching in the NFL and can trade for one of his two star pupils Tim Tebow or Alex Smith

Que
11-05-2011, 12:05 PM
I heard the numbers on ESPN and repeated them. If there's an agenda, it's theirs; not mine.



Oh the old Michele Bachmann excuse 'eh? I heard it on the intertubes...

But your overall point is valid. In this league you either perform or you sell cell phones. I'm fine tossing him to the wolves as a sink or swim. I just want to go into the draft with zero argument whether we need to draft a QBotF with #1. Time will tell...

Maximus
11-05-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm being serious here. Get help. You are delusional.

Seriously. Not joking man, you need to talk to someone about your obsession.

Put the forum banter on hold, and analyze your delusion and obsession. Its scary and sad.

I think he's a joker. Just saying anything for attention or he's Skip Bayless!

Que
11-05-2011, 12:08 PM
According to NFL.com's QB rating, Orton has had worse games than Tebow in all three seasons here.

They aren't benching Tebow for Orton. Especially after giving away Lloyd. Quinn is even worse. So who are they going with?

I obvious am a Tebow fan. Stats are one thing but when you get right down to it the thing that has so many people sporting the Do Not Want face is just how lost he looks out there. I know, that's the whole how he looks thing that MacGruder railed against. But ya, he kinda looks like Scott Baccula in Quantum Leap back there. Oh boy....

Here's hoping for improvement this week.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 12:13 PM
And the prep Cam had?. So Cam a rookie has zero prep and comes to the worst team in the league and is outplaying Tebow who had a year of NFL prep year already under his belt. Why does everyone forget Tebow is not a rookie.

He at least had starter reps in training camp.. and he didn't even need much rep because they catered to what he did in college. They also had an offseason training program set up for him with an ex Panthers QB that taught him all the intricacies of the playbook. The Broncos didn't even do anything like that for Tebow IN season. Because he supposedly looked so terrible in training camp I guess.. yet they made him starter and not Quinn behind Orton.

Carolina was only the worst team in the league because Fox was coaching them.. all the players were overjoyed he was gone because his offense was such garbage.

Try again. Every argument you make has fail written all over it you are starting from a Urban Meyer coached QB or build your premises from Skip Bayless . Maybe Urban will get a job coaching in the NFL and can trade for one of his two star pupils Tim Tebow or Alex Smith

This doesn't even make sense.. what more could the Broncos do wrong in bringing Tebow along? I mean I don't see how the situation could be any worse.. could you find some reason why he isn't in the worst situation imaginable? He continually plays worse the longer NFL coaches work on him.. then people blame him... and he is just trying to do what they tell him to do. His skills were fine before they got a hold of him. They may not have looked conventional but they got the job done at the highest level.

Has anyone considered that it is Fox's offense teams are figuring out and not Tebow? Orton got worse in Fox's offense as the season progressed as well...

yerner
11-05-2011, 12:14 PM
Then how does he throw to players who are defended perfectly to win the Dolphins game? If Tebow had a great offense around him that allowed him to have confidence.. AND the prep Cam had.. he would be even better.

That logic makes no sense. He cannot throw to wr's in tight spaces over and over and over again like a pro qb has to. Not to mention his arm is weak sauce. It's the difference between the college game and the pro game. Open in college is not open in the pro's. Tebow has a college arm. He will never have the accuracy needed to play at the top level of the NFL. So when you and your boy Steve Young claim he will revolutionize the game you really saying the NFL will be a place where QB's don't have to pass the football.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:15 PM
And the prep Cam had?. So Cam a rookie has zero prep and comes to the worst team in the league and is outplaying Tebow who had a year of NFL prep year already under his belt. Why does everyone forget Tebow is not a rookie.

Try again. Every argument you make has fail written all over it you are starting from a Urban Meyer coached QB or build your premises from Skip Bayless . Maybe Urban will get a job coaching in the NFL and can trade for one of his two star pupils Tim Tebow or Alex Smith

It was only the worst team in the league because John Fox was coaching.

And Cam had most of 1st string QB snaps during the time they had before the season to prepare. They designed the offense FOR Cam Newton too.

Tebow had a year of prep under a coach who drafted him, and he was wildly successful with that coach almost every time he was in the game. Then that coach got fired and all went to hell.

Everything he prepared for last season, did not come over to this season. New coach, regime, system, everything. He's not a quarterback where you put in any system to run, I think it's quite obvious.

Tebow may not be a "rookie" but his development was reset this year. Anytime you have no continuity, the QB will fail...period.

gunns
11-05-2011, 12:15 PM
But don't worry.. if you play like this MacGruder can always blame everyone else on the team because you "look" just fine..



I'm sure this is what you meant.

broncos-rock
11-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Xanders didn't do **** for drafting. It was all McDaniels decision when it came to the picks.

Are seriously defending the pizza boy?:thumbs:

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

Yes, 3 games into his 2011 season with no preparation will determine his future in Denver.

What a great team we're gonna build with this formula...

Man, Denver fans are teh = http://cache.thisorth.at/00000/00167/048.460x325.jpg

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:19 PM
Xanders didn't do **** for drafting. It was all McDaniels decision when it came to the picks.

Source? Or just making **** up to fit your reality?

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2011, 12:19 PM
And the prep Cam had?. So Cam a rookie has zero prep and comes to the worst team in the league and is outplaying Tebow who had a year of NFL prep year already under his belt. Why does everyone forget Tebow is not a rookie.

Try again. Every argument you make has fail written all over it you are starting from a Urban Meyer coached QB or build your premises from Skip Bayless . Maybe Urban will get a job coaching in the NFL and can trade for one of his two star pupils Tim Tebow or Alex Smith

also, I'm pretty sure but might be wrong, Carolina has designed the offense around Cam's strengths which I'm pretty sure means a spread offense. So Cam has a coaching staff molding the offense around him were as the Broncos are doing the wrong thing---AGAIN (and shanny did this all the time with his defenses)---pounding square peg into a round hole.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 12:20 PM
That logic makes no sense. He cannot throw to wr's in tight spaces over and over and over again like a pro qb has to. Not to mention his arm is weak sauce. It's the difference between the college game and the pro game. Open in college is not open in the pro's. Tebow has a college arm. He will never have the accuracy needed to play at the top level of the NFL. So when you and your boy Steve Young claim he will revolutionize the game you really saying the NFL will be a place where QB's don't have to pass the football.

Not true.. because Tebow would have never been able to run if he couldn't throw. Running has always been a bonus to Tebow.. otherwise any college team could use a runner at QB and dominate like Tebow did.

So if open in college isn't open in the pros then why does Luck get hyped so much and he isn't even facing SEC defenses like Teobw did...

That college arm of Tebow looks better than Orton's arm. Tebow made throws in that Dolphins game I have never seen Orton or Cam make yet..

Eric Mangini said the same thing when Tebow was allowed to play his style his accuracy increased incredibly.. it's all about comfort and being used to a style. This is why Tebow should be playing HIS game with the pro style mixed in not the other way around. If only they hadn't wasted the whole season on another failed Orton experiment..

Shananahan
11-05-2011, 12:21 PM
Ban command like a KING.

Give MacGruder another timeout.

Shut it all down and make it stop.

CEH
11-05-2011, 12:21 PM
He at least had starter reps in training camp.. and he didn't even need much rep because they catered to what he did in college. They also had an offseason training program set up for him with an ex Panthers QB that taught him all the intricacies of the playbook. The Broncos didn't even do anything like that for Tebow IN season. Because he supposedly looked so terrible in training camp I guess.. yet they made him starter and not Quinn behind Orton.

Carolina was only the worst team in the league because Fox was coaching them.. all the players were overjoyed he was gone because his offense was such garbage.


Tebow? Orton got worse in Fox's offense as the season progressed as well...

Carolina coaches could not work with Cam so anything Cam did Tebow could have done as well during the strike. So Cam's 3 weeks of preseason trumps Tebow's 10 games or so under McD and playing last year with the starters for 3 games . I sorta remember seeing Tebow making the talk show rounds during the strike.

Please stops complaining Tebow isn't getting the same shot as Newton . Newton is taking advantage of his chances and we know Ron Rivera is an offensive genius.

Remind me again who was coaching CAR when they went to the Super Bowl. We all know last year the owner was too cheap to pay Fox off and he was a lame duck .

gunns
11-05-2011, 12:21 PM
Source? Or just making **** up to fit your reality?

Are you kidding??? No one needs a source to know that. Geez.

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2011, 12:24 PM
command like a Kid needs to be banned for post 113

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:27 PM
Are you kidding??? No one needs a source to know that. Geez.

No I'm not kidding... there is really NO source saying that Xanders had no say... it was known that Xanders and McDaniels worked together...

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:28 PM
command like a Kid needs to be banned for post 113

right, because no one has posted pictures of **** before...

are you serious? You're calling ME a kid for acting like a little kid?

OMG teacher, ban him! he posted a picture of doo doo!

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 12:28 PM
Carolina coaches could not work with Cam so anything Cam did Tebow could have done as well during the strike.

I don't know how they worked it but they did it.. there is a sports illustrated article about it. An ex panthers QB showed him the intricacies of the Panthers playbook. While Tebow was expected to organize everything on his own and wasn't even really considered the starter in the off season.. while they were looking to draft another QB AND said Orton would start if the season started now! lol

So Cam's 3 weeks of preseason trumps Tebow's 10 games or so under McD and playing last year with the starters for 3 games . I sorta remember seeing Tebow making the talk show rounds during the strike.

LOL This is just pathetic.. this shows how irrational your criticism is..

Please stops complaining Tebow isn't getting the same shot as Newton . Newton is taking advantage of his chances and we know Ron Rivera is an offensive genius.

John Fox makes anyone look like a genius.. At least Rivera can coach D.. Fox is bad on D and 10 times worse on O... the guy is a dinosaur.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Ban command like a KING.

Give MacGruder another timeout.

Shut it all down and make it stop.

I'm honestly not sure why you guys are on hate patrol. Is it because people don't agree with the majority of the people?

Seriously, if you guys had any position on a team that requires innovation, you'd suck badly.

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2011, 12:30 PM
right, because no one has posted pictures of **** before...

are you serious? You're calling ME a kid for acting like a little kid?

OMG teacher, ban him! he posted a picture of doo doo!

whatever

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Carolina coaches could not work with Cam so anything Cam did Tebow could have done as well during the strike. So Cam's 3 weeks of preseason trumps Tebow's 10 games or so under McD and playing last year with the starters for 3 games . I sorta remember seeing Tebow making the talk show rounds during the strike.

Cam had full #1 QB reps and prep BEFORE the season started... how is it even the same?


Please stops complaining Tebow isn't getting the same shot as Newton . Newton is taking advantage of his chances and we know Ron Rivera is an offensive genius.

Newton has an offense designed around him and for him.


Remind me again who was coaching CAR when they went to the Super Bowl. We all know last year the owner was too cheap to pay Fox off and he was a lame duck .

The game has immensely changed since 2003. Your logic is ass anyways, that's like defending Shanahan with, "who coached the Broncos to two super bowl victories???"

Yeah, that's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that he's no longer a very good HC today.

How many playoff games have the Broncos won since they made the superbowl???

Shananahan
11-05-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm honestly not sure why you guys are on hate patrol. Is it because people don't agree with the majority of the people?

Seriously, if you guys had any position on a team that requires innovation, you'd suck badly.
Is that what you think you're doing? Being innovative?

I don't hate you, I've actually found myself agreeing with one or two of your opinions. It's just that you board like a jackass, throw around a combative, arrogant attitude and go out of your way to be confrontational. If you really wanna just argue and call people names, go find the comments section of the most recent sports article somewhere. That's not what I come here for.

Also I don't really feel like looking at pictures of sh^t.

Play2win
11-05-2011, 12:38 PM
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1993/screenshot20111105at231.png


:notthissh

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:42 PM
Is that what you think you're doing? Being innovative?

I don't hate you, I've actually found myself agreeing with one or two of your opinions. It's just that you board like a jackass, throw around a combative, arrogant attitude and go out of your way to be confrontational. If you really wanna just argue and call people names, go find the comments section of the most recent sports article somewhere. That's not what I come here for.

Also I don't really feel like looking at pictures of sh^t.

No, all I'm saying is, just because I or whomever don't think like the rest of the majority, why does that = ban/ignore etc...

People generally can't handle thoughts different than theirs...but when they're proven wrong or that their thought process is wrong, they just ignore it and continue to fail at life.

I'm not talking about you btw.

CEH
11-05-2011, 12:43 PM
Cam had full #1 QB reps and prep BEFORE the season started... how is it even the same?



Newton has an offense designed around him and for him.



The game has immensely changed since 2003. Your logic is ass anyways, that's like defending Shanahan with, "who coached the Broncos to two super bowl victories???"

Yeah, that's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that he's no longer a very good HC today.

How many playoff games have the Broncos won since they made the superbowl???


You Tebownites all come to the same conclusion. It's not Tim's fault for what he puts out on the field. It's alway's someone trying to keep him down.

Sorry by Fox just guided a 12-4 football team with a crap QB to the playoffs in '08.

How many teams without a Manning, Brees , Brady or Rothelisberger have won the Super Bowl the last 10 years.

Gee you think that having a stud franchise QB has a little something to do with winning a SB? and Cam Newton just mioght be on his way. Tebow would be right there as well if he just had a QB coach in the offseason like Cam.

el chalupacabra
11-05-2011, 12:44 PM
Very true, but because of Tebow's religious beliefs, many in the media who are athiests will continue to fan the flames of how bad he is and help put pressure on the Broncos to stop playing him or giving him a chance to develop. There is a real hatred for Tebow and this is a guy who has not raped anybody, committed any crimes, and not a jerk for a teammate either, where such players seem to get many chances and more of a benefit of the doubt than him. It is a pretty sad commentary on our society where religion is put on the same level to be feared as criminal activity.

I know! Remember when the media refused to treat Kurt Warner like a great QB because of his beliefs?

Oh, wait...

Blueflame
11-05-2011, 12:45 PM
According to NFL.com's QB rating, Orton has had worse games than Tebow in all three seasons here.

They aren't benching Tebow for Orton. Especially after giving away Lloyd. Quinn is even worse. So who are they going with?

They're going to draft their own guy next April is what it means if Tebow doesn't play better and soon.

gunns
11-05-2011, 12:46 PM
People generally can't handle thoughts different than theirs

Looking at yourself in the mirror?

but when they're proven wrong or that their thought process is wrong, they just ignore it and continue to fail at life.



Yep, you are.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-05-2011, 12:51 PM
You Tebownites all come to the same conclusion. It's not Tim's fault for what he puts out on the field. It's alway's someone trying to keep him down.

Sorry by Fox just guided a 12-4 football team with a crap QB to the playoffs in '08.

How many teams without a Manning, Brees , Brady or Rothelisberger have won the Super Bowl the last 10 years.

Gee you think that having a stud franchise QB has a little something to do with winning a SB? and Cam Newton just mioght be on his way. Tebow would be right there as well if he just had a QB coach in the offseason like Cam.

not defending Tebow exactly, just defending the fact that he's not getting a fair shake... so I'm defending his situation more so than the actual player.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 12:55 PM
You Tebownites all come to the same conclusion. It's not Tim's fault for what he puts out on the field. It's alway's someone trying to keep him down.

Again.. can you think of any worse situation Tebow could be in?

Sorry by Fox just guided a 12-4 football team with a crap QB to the playoffs in '08.[/quote]

Maybe he wasn't a crap QB.. like Tebow.. maybe the Problem was always Fox?

How many teams without a Manning, Brees , Brady or Rothelisberger have won the Super Bowl the last 10 years.

Manning should have had more championships and Ben and Brady won with defense. Brees had incredible team mojo.. what do all those teams really have in common though? Great coaching...

Gee you think that having a stud franchise QB has a little something to do with winning a SB? and Cam Newton just mioght be on his way. Tebow would be right there as well if he just had a QB coach in the offseason like Cam.

I think the problem is really about perception... Cam Newton fit the mold of a prototypical QB.. he had a more "normal" motion.. he came in hot on a team that was dominant and was new and hadn't had his game picked apart for 4 years.

Everyone has tried to 'FIX" Tebow and force him to be this "conventional" QB.. not even knowing if he needed to. The only thing that made people believe this was the senior bowl.. which was a joke. He was being forced to fit in a certain style then with no prep too..

Shananahan
11-05-2011, 12:58 PM
Ok, MacGruder. I think you've made your point. You can go now.

DBroncos4life
11-05-2011, 12:59 PM
Prior to Orton being benched.....Lloyd is only good because Orton locks onto him every play. Lloyd is overrated and just cause locker room problems.

Tebow gets in, Lloyd gets traded. It's not fair to Tebow he is playing without our best WR. :thumbs:

NFLBRONCO
11-05-2011, 01:01 PM
When your 2-5 going nowhere and Orton and Quinn are FA's if FO pulls Tebow before season is over that tells you everything about 12 and beyond.

CEH
11-05-2011, 01:05 PM
Pretty sure 5 INTs in a playoff game means you have issues other than coaching.

This is simple. Assume Elway doesn't want to build a spread offense around Tim, wants to win from the pocket and move on with Tim to another team. It's not like every other GM in the league is waiting to get their hands on Tebow so they can readjust their entire offense around Tim . In fact outside of McD, it will be interesting to see who wants to make Tebow their centerpiece.

Hamrob
11-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Just stop. John Elway threw better with a torn bicep than Tebow has his entire life.I'm talking about Elway's rookie year...his first 11 starts specifically.

Many, many, many fans....at the time, were questioning why the hell Denver traded away such a ransom for a guy who couldn't even line up behing the center. His play was extremely poor....in 11 games is completion percentage was 46%. Sound familiar??

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 01:07 PM
Ok, MacGruder. I think you've made your point. You can go now.

Yes.. heaven forbid we actual use a message board to talk about the team. Let's stop it.. let's post more pictures..

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 01:10 PM
Pretty sure 5 INTs in a playoff game means you have issues other than coaching.

This is simple. Assume Elway doesn't want to build a spread offense around Tim, wants to win from the pocket and move on with Tim to another team. It's not like every other GM in the league is waiting to get their hands on Tebow so they can readjust their entire offense around Tim . In fact outside of McD, it will be interesting to see who wants to make Tebow their centerpiece.

At the worst Beli will take him and win a coupe championships with Tebow in goal line situations and as a change up then transition him to starter. If he didn't have Brady he probably would ahve taken him before McD.. what more evidence fo you need to Tebow's ability. That should be the standard not what all these other hacks like Fox do.

Shananahan
11-05-2011, 01:11 PM
Prior to Orton being benched.....Lloyd is only good because Orton locks onto him every play. Lloyd is overrated and just cause locker room problems.

Tebow gets in, Lloyd gets traded. It's not fair to Tebow he is playing without our best WR. :thumbs:
This is quite the stretch.

Shananahan
11-05-2011, 01:12 PM
Yes.. heaven forbid we actual use a message board to talk about the team. Let's stop it.. let's post more pictures..
Did you say something about the team? I must have missed it.

My apologies.

Hamrob
11-05-2011, 01:16 PM
You Tebownites all come to the same conclusion. It's not Tim's fault for what he puts out on the field. It's alway's someone trying to keep him down.

Sorry by Fox just guided a 12-4 football team with a crap QB to the playoffs in '08.

How many teams without a Manning, Brees , Brady or Rothelisberger have won the Super Bowl the last 10 years.

Gee you think that having a stud franchise QB has a little something to do with winning a SB? and Cam Newton just mioght be on his way. Tebow would be right there as well if he just had a QB coach in the offseason like Cam.How about considering the fact that Tebow has only started 5 NFL games???

Quit trying to judge him, like he's been starting for years.

Yes, he's accountable for his poor play. But, the only way you can improve is to play the game! Give the kid this year...let's see what the picture looks like after the dust has settled.

We know that Orton and Quinn aren't are QB of the future. Why the hell would we even consider playing them? Play Tebow, give him some support and let's see what he do over the course of the entire season...not 2 games.

Shananahan
11-05-2011, 01:38 PM
I fully agree with the 'Start Tebow regardless' train of thought.

Unless you're going to adopt some form of no-QB offense, Tebow should be the guy taking snaps for the remainder of the season unless he is injured.

MagicHef
11-05-2011, 02:25 PM
I obvious am a Tebow fan. Stats are one thing but when you get right down to it the thing that has so many people sporting the Do Not Want face is just how lost he looks out there. I know, that's the whole how he looks thing that MacGruder railed against. But ya, he kinda looks like Scott Baccula in Quantum Leap back there. Oh boy....

Here's hoping for improvement this week.

Hopefully he's scared off the evil landlord, saved that poor family's house, and is now a ballerina that needs to stop a murder.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 02:36 PM
I know, that's the whole how he looks thing that MacGruder railed against. But ya, he kinda looks like Scott Baccula in Quantum Leap back there. Oh boy....

I think that look is caused by a never say die attitiude by Tebow...

Horrible coaching by his coaches

and great coaching by the opponents.

I have seen this before.. coaches that are unable to prepare for their opponent. The Broncos coaches don't know how to make adjustments to what the opponent is doing.. it's that simple.

I think a lot of it just comes from attitude. It seems Fox and/or McCoy always believe they have a bad QB situation and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The absolute definition of a loser. The complete opposite of Tebow.

Doggcow
11-05-2011, 02:36 PM
If it comes to cutting Tebow, I'd prefer to keep him just as a gimmick play guy. He's fun to watch.

Jay3
11-05-2011, 02:39 PM
Unless you're going to adopt some form of no-QB offense,

I'm intrigued by this "no-QB offense," and I believe that the Broncos should be running it unless they are trying to sabotage Tebow.

ScottXray
11-05-2011, 02:54 PM
SD: 101.7
MIA: 91.7
DET: 56.8
Season: 75.1

¿3.4?

I beleive that rating is the new ESPN rating that is supposed to be evaluating all the play of a QB, and not just yds, completin % etc. The one that they won't tell anyone HOW they evaluate fully.

No doubt Tebow played badly...but not that badly using the OLD rating system.

Convenient how everyone that hates ESPN is now using that rating when it suits them.

I'm with the give him at least 5 more games ( or the whole season) crowd as the sample is too small and the opponents exactly the teams that will be able to rush the passer effectively . I think Tebow deserves more time...and it doesn't hurt the team to let him try. If he can't cut it we , and HE will know by the end of the year.

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 02:56 PM
WTF is it about Matt Stafford teams that are so dooshy?

Remember the "celebration" when he was with Georgia?

Then this last time you had "Tebowing"..

Unchill bro..

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 02:58 PM
I beleive that rating is the new ESPN rating that is supposed to be evaluating all the play of a QB, and not just yds, completin % etc. The one that they won't tell anyone HOW they evaluate fully.

No doubt Tebow played badly...but not that badly using the OLD rating system.

Convenient how everyone that hates ESPN is now using that rating when it suits them.

I'm with the give him at least 5 more games ( or the whole season) crowd as the sample is too small and the opponents exactly the teams that will be able to rush the passer effectively . I think Tebow deserves more time...and it doesn't hurt the team to let him try. If he can't cut it we , and HE will know by the end of the year.

Shouldn't everyone already know what Tebow is capable of though? I thought everyone was QB experts these days?

Tebow was supposed to be a 4th or 5th round pick so he has no chance..

he didn't play in a pro style offense in high school or college.. and he couldn't do it in 5 games in the NFL. Obviously that means he can never do it. :~ohyah!:

Houshyamama
11-05-2011, 03:06 PM
Good point... since Tebow's play will be evaluated on "looks" and stats and things like number of sacks.. it's imperative he make himself LOOK good even in a loss.

To do this Tebow should follow the Orton blueprint. Simply take what the defense gives you and absolutely no more. Always make sure to check down on every play.. throw the ball out of bounds and fall down with the slightest hint of contact for phantom sacks. If you are behind just keep playing like this even though it ensures you won't win but you can put up great but hollow stats this way a keep your starting job for years but lose nearly every game you play.

But don't worry.. if you play like this you can always blame everyone else on the team because you "look" just fine..

I would rather lose and be proud of my QB play than lose AND be humiliated by a QB that LOOKS awful even though he fights on every play and doesn't play for STATS and perception.

Sadly this ensures Tebow will never actually develop and become a great player.. he will always be a game manager and loser.. but oh well... Orton's made millions doing it and the fans buy it every time.

Do you want the Broncos to be a winning franchise or do you just want to see Tebow play?

DBroncos4life
11-05-2011, 03:07 PM
This is quite the stretch.

Not even.

BroncoSojia
11-05-2011, 03:08 PM
Do you want the Broncos to be a winning franchise or do you just want to see Tebow play?

Did you really have to ask this question? :rofl:

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Do you want the Broncos to be a winning franchise or do you just want to see Tebow play?

Just remember that Peyton Manning had a ton of interceptions his first year..

I am telling you... the things that make Tebow look bad now will make him great when he gets comfortable. Orton;s settling for losing will ensure he always stinks.


I just noticed Matt Cassel's game last week against the Raiders..

What happened here? He made Tebow look like a god.. why didn't we hear about this? He's no rookie like Tebow.

M. Cassel 15/30 161yards 5.4 avg 0TDs 2INTs 38.3passer rating

Jetmeck
11-05-2011, 03:16 PM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

What kind of idiot ahole declares a first round pick is done after only 6 games. At this point he is 2-3 and almost brought us back in the third game.............yeeesssss.................you don't know jack !!!

Jetmeck
11-05-2011, 03:18 PM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.

Exactly but hell don't let common sense, logic or basic comprehension or comparisons with former rookie QBs get in the way of these idiots..................

Jetmeck
11-05-2011, 03:25 PM
Clearly Broncos fans do give a rats ass about Tebow. 5 starts and fans like you want to pull him for looking like a QB with 5 starts. That is what is ridiculous.


:Broncos:

Bingo................winner............stupid ass fools............!!!!

Bronx33
11-05-2011, 03:34 PM
What kind of idiot ahole declares a first round pick is done after only 6 games. At this point he is 2-3 and almost brought us back in the third game.............yeeesssss.................you don't know jack !!!

Folks bronco0608 like would have never survived the broncos teams in the early 70s they have zero patience and really have no clue what being a nfl fan is really about ( no clue whatsoever)

NFLBRONCO
11-05-2011, 04:01 PM
I look at it this way if Tebow was playing on any other team the lovers would be laughing their butts off at his play after only 6 games or not. The Miami game would be seen clearer as beating a bad team vs the bronco glasses version Miami was GB or something.


I like him wish him well but, so far his flaws are very evident and concerning. I'll gladly give him this year to ease my concerns. Unless I see alot more from him we need to upgrade QB situation soon.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-05-2011, 04:30 PM
Very true, but because of Tebow's religious beliefs, many in the media who are athiests will continue to fan the flames of how bad he is and help put pressure on the Broncos to stop playing him or giving him a chance to develop. There is a real hatred for Tebow and this is a guy who has not raped anybody, committed any crimes, and not a jerk for a teammate either, where such players seem to get many chances and more of a benefit of the doubt than him. It is a pretty sad commentary on our society where religion is put on the same level to be feared as criminal activity.

You're such a ****ing idiot.

DarkHorse30
11-05-2011, 04:30 PM
This.

Even the offensive coordinator, McCoy, says the staff hasn't been able to re-design the scheme in a way that best uses Tebows' skills. They're still trying to run the Orton playbook, albeit in the shotgun a hell of a lot more than before.

If it becomes unbearable after four or five games, then see what we have in Brady Quinn I guess, (no, I wouldn't go there at all. Brady Quinn is and will always be nothing more than a backup. Keep him if we need a backup for Tebow next year if Tebow improves enough by the end of the year) but it seems to me we need a much larger game sample than we have in order to pass final judgement on this kid.

This. Except for the Quinn point noted above.

There is NO lockerroom for Fox to save, so that point is ridiculous, even though the football hacks keep bringing it up. Our Offense consists of rook-3 years experience except for Kuper.....which means our offense doesn't have enough experience to know what to do with a "veteran presence" at QB. And BTW, how did we do with Orton? Win many games with him, did we? Heck of a presence.

On the D-side, we have about a handful of old guys that won't be here in 3 years....plus DJ who I really don't even know earns a starting job somewhere else. Would it be heresy to say he reminds me of Gold? Well, DJ is not a guy to build our defense around and hasn't been since he was drafted. We still struggle on D, so we are going to let a handful of D-vets dictate who should be starting, WHILE we rebuild a team that is REALLY bad? Right.

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm talking about Elway's rookie year...his first 11 starts specifically.

Many, many, many fans....at the time, were questioning why the hell Denver traded away such a ransom for a guy who couldn't even line up behing the center. His play was extremely poor....in 11 games is completion percentage was 46%. Sound familiar??

Yeah but Elway also threw darts and Tebows ball flutters and wobbles. You could tell all Elway needed was to learn where to throw the ball.

Broncos4tw
11-05-2011, 06:00 PM
I am telling you... the things that make Tebow look bad now will make him great when he gets comfortable.

I don't even know what that means. What makes him look bad now is BAD HABITS and poor play. How will that ever look great? And simply having a strong desire to win doesn't mean you are going to win. You do need talent as well.

Maybe he has it.. maybe not. He looked just terrible the last couple of games. He has one one good drive, and a few good throws. He has otherwise looked bad in every facet of the game. I hope he turns it around this weekend, but I am not going to have such a mancrush on the guy, that I ignore the OBVIOUS. Your mancrush however, doesn't let you see the negatives.

Ugly Duck
11-05-2011, 06:36 PM
Jarvis Moss may have put out the most bulleting material out of both clubs for the contest this weekend. When asked if he had respect for Tim Tebow’s game, the former Florida Gator stated, “Yeah, at college I did.”

Moss praised Tebow’s athleticism, commenting, “Yeah, like I said, he can use his legs, definitely. He’s a good athlete, man. He’s a strong dude. he can definitely hurt you with his legs.”

When asked about the passer’s arm, he uttered, “Uh, I don’t want to answer that question because I really want to…never mind. I can’t answer that question.”

Popps
11-05-2011, 06:39 PM
Jarvis Moss may have put out the most bulleting material out of both clubs for the contest this weekend. When asked if he had respect for Tim Tebow’s game, the former Florida Gator stated, “Yeah, at college I did.”

Moss praised Tebow’s athleticism, commenting, “Yeah, like I said, he can use his legs, definitely. He’s a good athlete, man. He’s a strong dude. he can definitely hurt you with his legs.”

When asked about the passer’s arm, he uttered, “Uh, I don’t want to answer that question because I really want to…never mind. I can’t answer that question.”


Wow, 5 years into Moss' career he's finally registered and NFL sack... and he's suddenly a guy who's opinion we need to hear?

MacGruder
11-05-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't even know what that means.

Things like holding onto the ball and fighting on every play.. rather than checking down or throwing the ball out of bounds. It's an aggressive attitude. It's not that Tebow doesn't know "what" to do.. as if he's stupid. Look how smart Orton is.. people call him a computer.. maybe so.. but he's not a winner. It's Tebow's passion that sets him apart. Put a team full of guys with his attitude and the Broncos wouldn't be losing. Coaches know this which is why they love him.. at least winning coaches not named Fox.

What makes him look bad now is BAD HABITS and poor play. How will that ever look great? And simply having a strong desire to win doesn't mean you are going to win. You do need talent as well.

That's the point I was making.. Tebow has all the tangibles and intangibles.. the one thing he is missing is experience in a NFL type offense.. for a control freak like Tebow who won't let himself fail that is terribly frustrating.. and again.. it's that winning refuse to lose attitude that is hurting him. It's like Peyton Manning getting picked a ton in his first year. He isn't going to be conservative and play to lose. He was forcing the issue to BECOME great.

Maybe he has it.. maybe not. He looked just terrible the last couple of games. He has one one good drive, and a few good throws. He has otherwise looked bad in every facet of the game. I hope he turns it around this weekend, but I am not going to have such a mancrush on the guy, that I ignore the OBVIOUS. Your mancrush however, doesn't let you see the negatives.

And that is my point.. LOOKS are incredibly deceiving.. I use the Brett Favre example.. last season Favre looked terrible with tons of picks. Orton looked better to a lot of people.. but it was fool's gold.. hollow numbers in losses and ultra conservative play that ensured his team lost.

Guys like Tebow and Favre looked bad like they did because they are playing aggressively to win. Sometimes that bites you.. and they both have their own way of doing it. Favre gun slinging Tebow with his more unconventional methods. Using his toughness and athleticism and at times gun slinging a bit when he doesn't have a choice.

Also remember that a big reason Tebow has looked so rough is because he has TRIED to do what the coaches asked him. Compare that to guys like Vince Young and Vick who stayed stuck in their ways and waited much longer to make those kinds of changes. Tebow may be suffering for it in the short term but those are things that could make him even greater down the road especially with his work ethic and dedication.

maven
11-05-2011, 06:51 PM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

Tebow gets the season. Give the guy a chance.

Steve Prefontaine
11-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown...
Great job OP!

Mile High Mojoe
11-05-2011, 07:35 PM
No it will not, it'll be what he produces as a whole for the rest of the season. Inserting Quinn in any game this season is the worse idea ever. Whether you like Tebow or not he must be left in to evaluate what he can or cannot do the rest of the season. Quinn is loser, he won’t be any better than Tebow.

Broncos4Life
11-05-2011, 09:09 PM
Anybody doubt this? If this clown comes out in the Oakland game and once again can't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes, he is done with as a Bronco. No team in the NFL has the time to watch a fullback develop into an NFL QB.

If Tebow is what he believes he is, then he is going to come and play lights out this game. For Tebow, lights out means hitting above 50% of his passes and not missing wide open receivers by 15 yards. All he has to show is a bare minimum of competence to retain his job. But that is a ****ing stretch at this point.

If Tebow is all that and a bag of chicken, he will perform, period. No freaking excuses. But if he comes out with his same clown, selfish act of waiting nine seconds to throw a pass, scramble every other pass play, and overthrow WRs like he is a high school QB, he is done in Denver. Done.

Tebowites, pray this mofo has a good game. If not, that clown is done in Broncoland. Done.

Blah blah blah.......

Who could agree with this garbage of a post, let alone thread.....

If Tebow hits 49% of his throws and wins the game, 99% of Broncoland will be happy. You will be part of the 1% I guess.

This team will not be better with Orton or Quinn behind center.

Get bent douche!

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-05-2011, 09:32 PM
oh man this game is going to be ugly poor tebow. oh well

Archer81
11-05-2011, 09:46 PM
oh man this game is going to be ugly poor tebow. oh well


Possibly. It might not be. We will have to see.


:Broncos:

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 09:50 PM
Macg is scary. TT has all the tangibles???

Like accuracy?
Like intelligence?
Like footwork?
Like mechanics?
Like pocket presence?

Again, the only way he suceeds is on defined plays where he has one place to throw it.
Anything other than that, its a prayer usually off his back foot.
Need examples?
2010

Buck screen Td vs Hou
PA pass deep to Gaffney
Qb Draw vs Hou
Miracle td qb draw in Oak
Prayer to Blloyd in Oak
Qb draw vs Sd
PA pass wait for Blloyd all by himself vs SD
Fake qb draw pass to decker.

All you see are qb runs, single read throws. Granted he was a rookie, but when he had to make a read, 2 ints vs SD.

2011
Screen Moreno vs Sd
Qb power left vs Sd
Qb draw right vs Mia
Te screen vs Mia
Busted play TD to DT vs Mia
Granted he hit two nice passes to Fells and Willis and a great play to find DT, but thats the only way we score with TT, qb runs, and screens, busted plays.

Wr screen vs Det

He cannot make his mind up. I am sure his dyslexia is a huge part of it. Scripted plays, and defined lays like screens where any DECISION making is taken out of his responsibility have a chance.

And frankly, is that so suprising for a home a schooled theology major, who was brainwashed from birth? His yes sir no sir, I do what everyone asks me to, I am always excited and fun and positive and trying to be the best person/qb I can be.

He didnt DECIDE between Ala and Fla until 5 minutes before his press conference.

He has been raised not to question authority his whole life, and it + dyslexia makes for a kid who is pampered in his cocoon of goodiness who cant make a decision to save his life let alone read a disguised nfl defense.

Did I mention his feet and mechanics suck, so even when everything else is right, he throws a duck off his back foot that us hopedully close but rarely if ever on target.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 09:53 PM
1. And frankly, is that so suprising for a home a schooled theology major, who was brainwashed from birth? His yes sir no sir, I do what everyone asks me to, I am always excited and fun and positive and trying to be the best person/qb I can be.

Did I mention 2. his feet and mechanics suck, so even when everything else is right, he throws a duck off his back foot that us hopedully close but rarely if ever on target.

1. I fail to see how homeschooling is harming his development as a pro-QB. What an odd angle to take in regards to how he learns and then applying it to a football argument.

2. He fixes his feet, his accuracy will improve. Will he do that over the course of the rest of the season? We'll see.


:Broncos:

DarkHorse30
11-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Carson Palmer has more to prove this week than Tim Tebow.....a LOT more. Raiders BET THE FARM on this outtashape-injury wrecked-has been QB.....BET THE FARM.

Meanwhile, Denver fans are worried that Tim Tebow might lose some games while he learns the pro game? Seriously?

Let's look at points 1), 2) and 3

1) Denver has decided to find out if Tebow can learn the game.

2) While Tebow learns the game, if Denver loses the games, they gain draft position.

3) Gaining draft position is good.

Seems like a bit of a win win if you asked me. I don't like to see Tebow struggle, and I don't like to see writers and fans of other teams make fun of my QB, but there is no shortcut here for Denver. Tebow has to play in order for Denver to find out if he has what it takes. And let's at least admit that Denver is a pretty bad team right now. Our defense is better than last year, but that isn't too hard to improve upon, is it? On the offense, Nearly every starter has only been doing his job for about a year or two or three. Not very much experience or depth. IT IS GOING TO BE UGLY.

But look at last week's game. Denver had a chance early to go up by 7 and thanks to a blown call (Decker caught the ball in the endzone and had 2 feet in...they just wouldn't reverse it) they didn't. The potential is there, but going against a team like Detroit who has a lot of depth, coming off 2 losses, and is at least twice as good as Denver, a blowout wasn't unexpected. Especially after Denver squeaked a win the week before against a very bad team.

Now this week, again Oakland coming off a bad loss AND a bye.....what are the chances Denver struggles? They will struggle. And the OP says THIS game is the predictor of whether Tebow starts next week? How stupid can you get?

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2011, 10:25 PM
Carson Palmer has more to prove this week than Tim Tebow.....a LOT more. Raiders BET THE FARM on this outtashape-injury wrecked-has been QB.....BET THE FARM.

Meanwhile, Denver fans are worried that Tim Tebow might lose some games while he learns the pro game? Seriously?

Let's look at points 1), 2) and 3

1) Denver has decided to find out if Tebow can learn the game.

2) While Tebow learns the game, if Denver loses the games, they gain draft position.

3) Gaining draft position is good.

Seems like a bit of a win win if you asked me. I don't like to see Tebow struggle, and I don't like to see writers and fans of other teams make fun of my QB, but there is no shortcut here for Denver. Tebow has to play in order for Denver to find out if he has what it takes. And let's at least admit that Denver is a pretty bad team right now. Our defense is better than last year, but that isn't too hard to improve upon, is it? On the offense, Nearly every starter has only been doing his job for about a year or two or three. Not very much experience or depth. IT IS GOING TO BE UGLY.

But look at last week's game. Denver had a chance early to go up by 7 and thanks to a blown call (Decker caught the ball in the endzone and had 2 feet in...they just wouldn't reverse it) they didn't. The potential is there, but going against a team like Detroit who has a lot of depth, coming off 2 losses, and is at least twice as good as Denver, a blowout wasn't unexpected. Especially after Denver squeaked a win the week before against a very bad team.

Now this week, again Oakland coming off a bad loss AND a bye.....what are the chances Denver struggles? They will struggle. And the OP says THIS game is the predictor of whether Tebow starts next week? How stupid can you get?

:thumbsup:

yep.

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 10:30 PM
1. I fail to see how homeschooling is harming his development as a pro-QB. What an odd angle to take in regards to how he learns and then applying it to a football argument.

2. He fixes his feet, his accuracy will improve. Will he do that over the course of the rest of the season? We'll see.


:Broncos:

Homeschooling by a mother who was a....

Theology major!!!

@ UF @ that!

Brilliant. More brainwashing, learn this, skip that, etc...

I really think his human development was limited by his lack of exposure. While he is an outstanding role model for all the good he does, I don't see a man as much as I see a kid in a cocoon.

I also think the dyslexia causes him to question what he is doing. He needs preprogrammed plays where he doesnt have to think and just goes.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 10:39 PM
Homeschooling by a mother who was a....

Theology major!!!

@ UF @ that!

Brilliant. More brainwashing, learn this, skip that, etc...

I really think his human development was limited by his lack of exposure. While he is an outstanding role model for all the good he does, 1. I don't see a man as much as I see a kid in a cocoon.

2. I also think the dyslexia causes him to question what he is doing. He needs preprogrammed plays where he doesnt have to think and just goes.


1. This is true for any guy between the ages of 18-25. Public school is hardly the incubator for free thought and to suggest college is an open arena for ideas is doubly ridiculous.

You do not figure out who or what you believe until you actually grow up. This is true for anyone.

2. Any QB will tell you they do not think, they just play. Thinking is what causes mistakes, especially in offenses where timing is everything.

And who cares if he is a theology major? Lots of them out there. Just as many liberal arts majors. Hardly indicitive of how he thinks or what he does.


:Broncos:

bronco militia
11-05-2011, 10:49 PM
there have been plenty of great college QB's that didn't make it in the NFL.....damn that home schooling

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 10:55 PM
2. Any QB will tell you they do not think, they just play. Thinking is what causes mistakes, especially in offenses where timing is everything.

And who cares if he is a theology major? Lots of them out there. Just as many liberal arts majors. Hardly indicitive of how he thinks or what he thinks.

:Broncos:

Of course a qb has to THINK!!

Are you crazy?

You have about 3 secs to decide and throw. Deciding is thinking. By the time a qb sets his feet and has to see if they are playing man, cover 2 or 3 if they disguised well enough presnap, now you have about 1 sec to either throw to that primary reciever or not.

All of that takes Thinking. Split second decisions. Guarantee the dyslexia effects his split second decision making. As far as being homeschooled etc, it makes for a kid that is so guided and onesided, at camp you could see the gears churning, its painful.

He wants guys wide open, like on...

Screen plays! Designed plays where recievers are wide open like say..

Blloyd vs SD in 2010, every other td he has thrown outside his prayer to lloyd in Oak.

Its to much to ask to fix this year. He needs an offseason or two, Elway wont wait, landry jones or luck in 2012.

Maximus
11-05-2011, 10:59 PM
Carson Palmer has more to prove this week than Tim Tebow.....a LOT more. Raiders BET THE FARM on this outtashape-injury wrecked-has been QB.....BET THE FARM.

Meanwhile, Denver fans are worried that Tim Tebow might lose some games while he learns the pro game? Seriously?

Let's look at points 1), 2) and 3

1) Denver has decided to find out if Tebow can learn the game.

2) While Tebow learns the game, if Denver loses the games, they gain draft position.

3) Gaining draft position is good.

Seems like a bit of a win win if you asked me. I don't like to see Tebow struggle, and I don't like to see writers and fans of other teams make fun of my QB, but there is no shortcut here for Denver. Tebow has to play in order for Denver to find out if he has what it takes. And let's at least admit that Denver is a pretty bad team right now. Our defense is better than last year, but that isn't too hard to improve upon, is it? On the offense, Nearly every starter has only been doing his job for about a year or two or three. Not very much experience or depth. IT IS GOING TO BE UGLY.

But look at last week's game. Denver had a chance early to go up by 7 and thanks to a blown call (Decker caught the ball in the endzone and had 2 feet in...they just wouldn't reverse it) they didn't. The potential is there, but going against a team like Detroit who has a lot of depth, coming off 2 losses, and is at least twice as good as Denver, a blowout wasn't unexpected. Especially after Denver squeaked a win the week before against a very bad team.

Now this week, again Oakland coming off a bad loss AND a bye.....what are the chances Denver struggles? They will struggle. And the OP says THIS game is the predictor of whether Tebow starts next week? How stupid can you get?

:homer:

Maximus
11-05-2011, 11:02 PM
Of course a qb has to THINK!!

Are you crazy?

You have about 3 secs to decide and throw. Deciding is thinking. By the time a qb sets his feet and has to see if they are playing man, cover 2 or 3 if they disguised well enough presnap, now you have about 1 sec to either throw to that primary reciever or not.

All of that takes Thinking. Split second decisions. Guarantee the dyslexia effects his split second decision making. As far as being homeschooled etc, it makes for a kid that is so guided and onesided, I

Add this to his problems too:

GAINESVILLE — Tim Tebow proved at the NFL Combine two weekends ago that he is a physical freak for a quarterback: He tied a Combine record with a vertical leap of 38.5 inches, ran a 4.7 in the 40 and dominated all participants in the cone and shuttle drills.

But when it comes to thinking on his feet in a pressurized environment, Tebow is a little bit behind the pack.

Tebow scored slightly below average for an NFL quarterback on the Wonderlic test, a 12-minute, 50-question exam given at the Combine that assesses a person's learning and problem-solving abilities.

Tebow scored a 22 out of 50 on the Wonderlic test, an NFL source told the Post Wednesday. The score falls slightly below the average score for an NFL quarterback, which is 24. But the average for 30 quarterbacks slated to start in 2010 is even higher, at 28.5. And the average score among the past seven Super Bowl winners is a 30.1. The scores for Kansas City's Matt Cassel and Carolina's Matt Moore could not be found.

Tebow also recorded the lowest Wonderlic score among the four top quarterback prospects in the 2010 draft. Oklahoma's Sam Bradford led the way with a 36, according to the source, while Texas' Colt McCoy scored a 25 and Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen a 23.

While Tebow's score of 22 would place him in a tie for 25th with Brett Favre and Chad Henne among starting NFL quarterbacks, the score likely won't affect Tebow's draft status nearly as much as his passing ability will.

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 11:07 PM
Thats a sorry ass score. If I prepared for 3 months to take that test, I would have gotten a 30 in 8th grade.

DarkHorse30
11-05-2011, 11:12 PM
:homer:

self portrait?

Maximus
11-05-2011, 11:13 PM
Thats a sorry ass score. If I prepared for 3 months to take that test, I would have gotten a 30 in 8th grade.

Yes it is! I'm sure all the heblowers will compare other QB's who succeeded with low scores... Sure Marino, Kelly and Favre scored low... However, they all had superb mechanics and could read defenses!

Maximus
11-05-2011, 11:14 PM
self portrait?

That's you partner! ---> :homer:

BroncoMan4ever
11-05-2011, 11:35 PM
Tebow should start the rest of the season. Period.

If he's absolutely horrible, he still helps us in an effort to get a replacement. If he's not, he helps his stock on the market if we choose to ship him to jax.

i disagree. we know what Orton has, we are seeing what Tebow has, if he doesn't improve we should find out what Quinn has. people forget the guy was a 1st round talent recently. nobody comes out of Cleveland better than they went in, and outside of a bad game in the preseason he has soundly outplayed Tebow. give the guy a shot. worst case scenario, he sucks proves what many believe and he is gone at the end of the season, but maybe we get lucky and he shows he can be the guy and we can focus on defense with the draft next year and not worry about going for Luck, Barkley or Jones. or hell maybe he shows enough he warrants coming back as our long term backup. it's worth it to find out what he has if the other 2 don't have it.

JDB7821
11-05-2011, 11:35 PM
Those guys didn't do it in this era with the parity in the SEC now... Cam is the only guy to come close and Tebow trained him..

It's unbelievable that a lesser QB than Tebow in Cam is so successful on a team with a good offense that is being coached right and Cam and Tebow are so similar and people still blame Tebow.. just wait till he ends up somewhere else and ends up being better than Cam..

I didn't read the rest of this thread, I had to comment on this. I absolutely hated Cam coming out of the draft and thought he would be an immediate bust, but you are out of your mind if you can watch him play and not notice his talent as a PASSER. I thought he was incredibly inaccurate, but he's shown me exactly the opposite. The difference between what I just saw from Cam against the Vikings and Tebow against the Lions is a night and day difference. You can't possibly watch these two guys and objectively come away with the conclusion that Tebow is the better quarterback.

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 11:44 PM
JDB - that dude is obsessed with tebow, beyond reality, and is delusional. Hes like a caged mental patient, but is fun to poke and rattle his cage.

Rolandftw
11-05-2011, 11:48 PM
You do not figure out who or what you believe until you actually grow up. This is true for anyone.


I don't think that's true for most people. Most people believe what they were taught to believe. They might analyze what they were taught as a child later in life, but generally that analysis reinforces their preexisting beliefs.

Anyways, Bronco fans seem to get these high and lows from Tebow. Almost like a drug or something. If we win, all these fans are comparing him to great QB's. And if we lose, he's terrible and the sky is falling. He's going to struggle probably but we need to give him time.

Oakland and KC are not elite teams as they currently stand. Even against our defense, which has many flaws I don't see why we can't hold them to 17-20 points. If Tebow can make some plays, albeit not traditionally we could find ourselves in both games late.

vonqkilla
11-05-2011, 11:56 PM
Oakland and KC are not elite teams as they currently stand. Even against our defense, which has many flaws I don't see why we can't hold them to 17-20 points. If Tebow can make some plays, albeit not traditionally we could find ourselves in both games late.

So you're saying there is a chance!

I totally agree, we have a punchers chance.

Pick Six
11-05-2011, 11:58 PM
The Tebow experiment will continue. #15 jersey sales dictate that the Tebow experiment will continue...

Ugly Duck
11-06-2011, 12:07 AM
Carson Palmer is an outtashape-injury wrecked-has been QB

Palmer did OK last year - he was #6 in yardage, more than Aaron Rodgers & Tom Brady. Thats on a team who sucked at rushing (Bengals were #27). Had fewer INTs than #3 Drew Brees & just 3 more than #2 Peyton Manning. Right up there in pretty good company....

Bronco Yoda
11-06-2011, 12:30 AM
Homeschooling by a mother who was a....

Theology major!!!

@ UF @ that!

Brilliant. More brainwashing, learn this, skip that, etc...

I really think his human development was limited by his lack of exposure. While he is an outstanding role model for all the good he does, I don't see a man as much as I see a kid in a cocoon.

I also think the dyslexia causes him to question what he is doing. He needs preprogrammed plays where he doesnt have to think and just goes.


Exposure to what? Throwing up at keg parties and swording skanks. This is what limited his human development? Bwhahahahaaa... I'm willing to bet that TT is more mature than any of us where at his age.

Are you equating homeschooling with Fundamentalism Christianity? If so, grow some balls and just say what you mean kid.

I just have to laugh at the silly notion of his lack of human development. He traveled to 3rd world countries on his families missionary work and all that entailed, he had public school friends that he played sports with and went to a large college as THE sports star on campus. He wasn't locked away in some nunnery for ****s sake.

Such a fail on so many level. The Fundi's here must really love your takes...:giggle:


wow :yayaya:

Mile High Mojoe
11-06-2011, 01:03 AM
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h318/gomilehigh/375790_10150438376165917_555925916_10396346_130728 0933_n.jpg

I'm all in with Tebow and the rest of the team today. GO BRONCOS!

Archer81
11-06-2011, 01:05 AM
Of course a qb has to THINK!!

Are you crazy?

You have about 3 secs to decide and throw. Deciding is thinking. By the time a qb sets his feet and has to see if they are playing man, cover 2 or 3 if they disguised well enough presnap, now you have about 1 sec to either throw to that primary reciever or not.

All of that takes Thinking. Split second decisions. Guarantee the dyslexia effects his split second decision making. As far as being homeschooled etc, it makes for a kid that is so guided and onesided, at camp you could see the gears churning, its painful.

He wants guys wide open, like on...

Screen plays! Designed plays where recievers are wide open like say..

Blloyd vs SD in 2010, every other td he has thrown outside his prayer to lloyd in Oak.

Its to much to ask to fix this year. He needs an offseason or two, Elway wont wait, landry jones or luck in 2012.


When any QB says "the game is so fast" or "the game has slowed down for me" you see that in the first instance the QB was thinking too much, which slowed his reactions. Plays he would not think about twice he has to consider...which is bad.

In the second instance, when the game slows down they can rely on muscle memory and just playing. That is what I meant by "not thinking". They have seen it all, adjusted and get to show their physical talents. Tebow is clearly still in the first instance. 5 games as starter is not enough to slow everything down for him. I agree however that if he still looks like this by the end of the year, Denver should go in a different direction. At that point he would have had two years of development with about half of it being real game experience.


:Broncos:

Bronco Yoda
11-06-2011, 01:19 AM
We are in such a team wide mess right now. It's so bad that for me the game will not be about a victory so much as individual victories and player development.

ShutDownPoster
11-06-2011, 02:03 AM
Brian Griese has like the highest Wonderlic score in the modern era - where the fark is he now?

CEH
11-06-2011, 06:46 AM
?correct learning impead can Dyslexia

cutthemdown
11-06-2011, 06:48 AM
Brian Griese has like the highest Wonderlic score in the modern era - where the fark is he now?

It's not that having a high score means you will be good, it's that most good ones had a high score. Can you see the difference in that? How many great qbs had a low wonderlic? not many.

elsid13
11-06-2011, 07:11 AM
1. This is true for any guy between the ages of 18-25. Public school is hardly the incubator for free thought and to suggest college is an open arena for ideas is doubly ridiculous.

You do not figure out who or what you believe until you actually grow up. This is true for anyone.

2. Any QB will tell you they do not think, they just play. Thinking is what causes mistakes, especially in offenses where timing is everything.

And who cares if he is a theology major? Lots of them out there. Just as many liberal arts majors. Hardly indicitive of how he thinks or what he does.


:Broncos:

Sorry but that not true, the environment you were raised in and social norm imposed by your parents, peers and other adults factor in you more then you believe.

Prime examples (NOT RELATED TO TEBOW) - child abuse, it is a learned behavior and you will see children of abuser do the same to their own kids. OR children that attend the orthodox Madrasah schools in the Middle east.

DrFate
11-06-2011, 07:21 AM
How many great qbs had a low wonderlic? not many.

I always enjoy people who say things that are entirely unsupported (or even refuted) by the facts.

http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/intelligence-and-football-testing-differentials-collegiate-quarterback-passing-performance-a

The market for NFL rookie quarterbacks was examined between 1989 and 2004. Attempts to model passing performance using player and team characteristics revealed statistically significant relationships between a quarterback’s collegiate passing performance and his race and teammates. Intelligence, as measured by the Wonderlic score, was statistically insignificant.
...
This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation.

How did some of our favorites QBs do?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/wonderlic-scores-of-2010-nfl-starting-quarterbacks-and-339905.html

Gort
11-06-2011, 07:35 AM
It's not that having a high score means you will be good, it's that most good ones had a high score. Can you see the difference in that? How many great qbs had a low wonderlic? not many.

speaking of misunderstood arguments. Dave Krieger of the Denver Post was pissing me off last week (metaphorically speaking). he stumbled upon what he thought was an epiphanous thought and brought it up time and time again on Logan's radio show.

he kept saying that Tebow supporters were of the mind that since Elway sucked in his first 5 games and that Tebow sucked in his first 5 games, that Tebow supporters thought it was proof that Tebow was the next Elway.

it's a completely bass-ackwards argument and nobody is saying that.

what we are saying is that because both Elway and Tebow sucked (Tebow haters terminology, not mine) in their first 5 games, you can't draw any conclusions on how Tebow will be as an NFL QB just yet because Elway turned out pretty well and he was just as bad at the beginning.

alot of these guys who have decided that Tebow shouldn't have been drafted are really, really premature in congratulating themselves for their own perspicacity.

cutthemdown
11-06-2011, 07:41 AM
I always enjoy people who say things that are entirely unsupported (or even refuted) by the facts.

http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/intelligence-and-football-testing-differentials-collegiate-quarterback-passing-performance-a

The market for NFL rookie quarterbacks was examined between 1989 and 2004. Attempts to model passing performance using player and team characteristics revealed statistically significant relationships between a quarterback’s collegiate passing performance and his race and teammates. Intelligence, as measured by the Wonderlic score, was statistically insignificant.
...
This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation.

How did some of our favorites QBs do?

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/wonderlic-scores-of-2010-nfl-starting-quarterbacks-and-339905.html

Seems like most of the really good ones had high wonderlics.

chrisp
11-06-2011, 07:45 AM
I can't remember where I saw it but there was an article posted here a year or so ago that pointed out the key college factors that are indicators of success in the NFL....Tebow had some but not all of them.

Bottom line, there's no firm indicator that tells us if he will bust or not. But many good college QBs do. The next couple of games (if he gets that many) will be key. Now he has a big target painted on his head and defenses will be teeing off on him, can he find a way to hurt them and keep them honest? Can he show solid improvement under that kind of pressure? If he can then he should at least play out the rest of the season and may even stop us from going Qb inthe draft. If not then he could well be history.

Of course, for all those saying "its the coaching", well, if that's true Tebow will go elsewhere and be successful. If he doesn't, then it wasn't the coaching, it was Tebow.

Of course I don't know what will happen. I hope that Tebow will be successful, as then we will be set at the QB position. However, recent years have not been kind to the optimists amongst the Broncos faithful so i'm reserving judgement.

In many ways, I either want him to stink it out, or blow everyone away. I'd like for us to go into next year's draft knowing for sure that we either do have our Qb or we do not. Somehow I feel that with Tebow there will be no middle ground, so I do think by seasons end we will know. I'm much less certain of exactly which way it falls however....

errand
11-06-2011, 07:49 AM
Then why did you use other examples? Why didn't you just say that? Because you are following conventional wisdom..

Tebow is unlike any QB that has played the position in recent history.

If you judge him by the criteria of an Orton or any other conventional QB you are doing yourself a huge disservice..

You're right.....a 3.4 qb rating is definitely unlike any other qb in the nfl

lod01
11-06-2011, 07:49 AM
Say goodbye to The :tebow:

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 08:00 AM
Brian Griese has like the highest Wonderlic score in the modern era - where the fark is he now?

Griese > Tt

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 08:13 AM
When any QB says "the game is so fast" or "the game has slowed down for me" you see that in the first instance the QB was thinking too much, which slowed his reactions. Plays he would not think about twice he has to consider...which is bad.

In the second instance, when the game slows down they can rely on muscle memory and just playing. That is what I meant by "not thinking". They have seen it all, adjusted and get to show their physical talents. Tebow is clearly still in the first instance. 5 games as starter is not enough to slow everything down for him. I agree however that if he still looks like this by the end of the year, Denver should go in a different direction. At that point he would have had two years of development with about half of it being real game experience.


:Broncos:
Ive seen inexperianced qbs, which sounds like that is what you mean, he is just inexperianced.

Yes he is, but even inexperianced qbs make a decision, and throw the ball. Its basic football. Yesterday I was qbing vs an all out blitz every down, but I would get rid of the ball, I just dont see him being able to decide fast eniugh.

The only plausible reasoning I know of is his dyslexia, which effects how his brain quickly processes info to make a decision, is affecting him.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:16 AM
You're right.....a 3.4 qb rating is definitely unlike any other qb in the nfl

Yeah.. they don't have a toughness rating...



I also find it funny that people compare Tebow to other college QBs.. when none have done what Tebow has...

CEH
11-06-2011, 08:19 AM
Dec 22 2002 Griese and Tebow could have something in common. Griese was on noticed going into an OAK game , had a bad game thanks to Romo and we never saw Greise again as a starting Broncos QB

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 08:19 AM
Yeah.. they don't have a toughness rating...

” You can have all the heart and desire in the world, if you don't have the talent, you can't play” - Champ Bailey on Tim Tebow

/debate

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:23 AM
” You can have all the heart and desire in the world, if you don't have the talent, you can't play” - Champ Bailey on Tim Tebow

/debate

If he didn't have the talent he wouldn't be where he is.. he was drafted by a QB expert. Is Champ a Qb expert?

CEH
11-06-2011, 08:25 AM
” You can have all the heart and desire in the world, if you don't have the talent, you can't play” - Champ Bailey on Tim Tebow

/debate


Ouch. and when Eddie Mac says he's seen enough two of the most "company line guys" ever to play in Denver that says something ppl might want to pay attention too. Not like Champ's job isn't based on analyzing QB play game in and game out.

Play2win
11-06-2011, 08:26 AM
The dude looked like Michael Jordon trying to play Baseball. Definitely a supreme athlete, but just out of his league. He was trying to do something he wasn't really good at, instead of doing what he is really good at. In Michael's case, it was obvious (basketball). In Tim's case, in the NFL, its up for debate for what he should be doing, that he is really good at, within the NFL. (right now atleast) It isn't being a QB.

Rohirrim
11-06-2011, 08:27 AM
?correct learning impead can Dyslexia

Fonix shure wurkt four me.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:33 AM
I didn't read the rest of this thread, I had to comment on this. I absolutely hated Cam coming out of the draft and thought he would be an immediate bust, but you are out of your mind if you can watch him play and not notice his talent as a PASSER. I thought he was incredibly inaccurate, but he's shown me exactly the opposite. The difference between what I just saw from Cam against the Vikings and Tebow against the Lions is a night and day difference. You can't possibly watch these two guys and objectively come away with the conclusion that Tebow is the better quarterback.

Cam spent his time on the bench and in junior college tweaking his mechanics in preparation for the NFL.. while Tebow was making himself the greatest college QB ever even with flawed fundamentals.. just on talent and intangibles.

Tebow has o change his mechanics now IN the pros... which is why he is struggling.. of you'd watched him in college you would understand this.

It's hilarious how people say Tebow was just lucky to be on a great team in college when Tebow is in fact suffering now because his team stinks.. and Cma has looked great because he was on talented teams.

Cam's college even just beat Tebow's and people said cam was carrying his team and Tebow was being carried..

cam also has great QB coaching.. same guy that made David Garrard a pro bowler.. without that QB coach Garrard got cut in training camp.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:37 AM
Ouch. and when Eddie Mac says he's seen enough two of the most "company line guys" ever to play in Denver that says something ppl might want to pay attention too. Not like Champ's job isn't based on analyzing QB play game in and game out.


That's what they said about Michael Jordan as a GM.. then he drafted Kwame Brown.

champ said he had never seen a player like Tebow before..

this is what I just said.. how can people make judgments on Tebow when there has never been a QB like him.

A lot of things people think look bad about Tebow are really not as bad as he looks. Most of his issues are created by changing all his mechanics.. which Joe Montana and Harbaugh said should have never been done.

People are so stupid though.. they see Tebow get the ball stripped and say it's because of his elongated delivery.. but it's just a knee jerk reaction.. as if other Qbs with short motions don't have the same done to them. It happened to Miami's QB when the Broncos just beat them.

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 08:37 AM
If he didn't have the talent he would be where he is.. he was drafted by a QB expert. Is Champ a Qb expert?

Lmfao

Mcdouche is a better talent evaluator than who exactly?

You need help.

Now your relying on Mcdaniels skills as a talent evaluator to defend your ridiculous stupidity.

Hoge, Champ, Elway, Ron Jaws, and countless other experts, including me and my talent evaluation skills destroy mcdaniels' just everyone else here except you.

Your brain is screwed up. Get help. Your obsession is unhealthy.

DrFate
11-06-2011, 08:39 AM
Seems like most of the really good ones had high wonderlics.

Where do you draw the line between 'high' and 'average'?

Alex Smith had a great score - is he 'really good'?

Farve had a 22. Marino had a 16. McNabb had a 14 and he's had a far better career than guys who had much higher test scores.

The facts simply don't support your assertion. If you want to put some actual evidence together, feel free. I can find good QBs with low scores and crappy QBs with high scores.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:41 AM
Lmfao

Mcdouche is a better talent evaluator than who exactly?


Hoge, Champ, Elway, Ron Jaws, and countless other experts, including me and my talent evaluation skills deatroy mcdaniels' just like my everyone else hete except you.


McD knows QBs.. he has proven that much more than Champ.. or you.. that was why he got the Broncos job in the first place.. because of what he did with Matt Cassel.

Hoge? LMAO A runningback.. if you can even call him that... Jaws? LMAO Jaws evaluations are why you shouldn't listen to Elway..

CEH
11-06-2011, 08:42 AM
That's what they said about Michale Jordan as a GM.. then he drafted Kwame Brown.

champ said he had never seen a player like Tebow before..

this is what I just said.. how can people make judgments on Tebow when there has never been a QB like him.

A lot of things people think look bad about Tebow are really not as bad as he looks. Most of his issues are created by changing all his mechanics.. which Joe Montana and Harbaugh said should have never been done.

People are so stupid though.. they see Tebow get the ball stripped and say it's because of his elongated delivery.. but it's just a knee jerk reaction.. as if other Qbs with short motions don't have the same done to them. It happened to Miami's QB when the Broncos just beat them.

Ozzie Newsome has played , Jerry West, we can play this game all year.
Dude you base your opinions on Skip Bayless and have quoted him several times. At least I'm quoting players who study QBs or have caught NFL passes from QB instead of an ESPN blow hard. Quoting Skip Bayless is all I need to know about you and your opinions

RaiderH8r
11-06-2011, 08:49 AM
” You can have all the heart and desire in the world, if you don't have the talent, you can't play” - Champ Bailey on Tim Tebow while running behind MegaTron's scoring play.

/debate

Sounds like Fox is having a positive impact on these guys.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 08:51 AM
Ozzie Newsome has played , Jerry West, we can play this game all year.
Dude you base your opinions on Skip Bayless and have quoted him several times. At least I'm quoting players who study QBs or have caught NFL passes from QB instead of an ESPN blow hard. Quoting Skip Bayless is all I need to know about you and your opinions

Bayless actually watches the games. I don't think most these "experts" do.

People are just biased towards certain schools and certain conferences.. Skip knows how great the SEC is. A lot of guys don't.. like Trent Dilfer who obviously has a West coast slant and seems to resent winners..

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 08:51 AM
McD knows QBs.. he has proven that much.

You shouldn't listen to Elway..

Bradfords #s show that...

And now Mcdaniels knows more about nfl quarterbacking than a 16 year starting hof SB MVP.

If he's so great at talent evaluations, and TT is so great,

WAIT FOR IT...

THEN WHY DIDNT HE START TT LAST YEAR, EVEN ONCE, WHY DID HE START ORTON !!!

Call off the dogs, I am slaughtering mcgruder, if I keep going this mentally unstable guy might have his head explode.

Lol

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 08:58 AM
Fing Mcdaniels knows more about qbing, qb talent, and football than john elway!?!?!

Holy sht.

And TT is so awesome!!!

Yet McD never started TT....

Uh, ah, uh ummm ummm, head hurts....

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 09:03 AM
Macgruder, tell us all why mcd, the qb expert traded cutler for orton. Who has more talent, cutler or orton?

And remember everyone...

Dont listen to Elway, the HOF SB MVP, PLAYED IN 5 superbowls, retired with more WINS, than any qb, at 38 was a sb mvp, DONT LISTEN TO HIM!!!


Listen to Josh Mcdaniels, he knows talent...

Ayers, moreno, quinn, quinn, alphonso smith, new england rejects,

JDB7821
11-06-2011, 09:32 AM
Bayless actually watches the games. I don't think most these "experts" do.

People are just biased towards certain schools and certain conferences.. Skip knows how great the SEC is. A lot of guys don't.. like Trent Dilfer who obviously has a West coast slant and seems to resent winners..

I live right outside of Atlanta and you're not going to get anymore praise for the SEC than where I'm from. That said, we still know how to call it like we see it with our talent. We're quick to praise our guys (especially the Dawgs) when they do well, but just as quick to call out crappy football. No one is denying what Tebow did in the SEC. He proved me wrong from when I first saw him and said he couldn't do it. But as good as the SEC is, it's not the NFL. If I was starting a college team, I'd take Tebow every day of the week. If I had to develop a quarterback for a PRO team, I'd probably take Aaron Murray even right now. He has a much better base to start with from a mechanical standpoint and plays in a pro style offense. If Tebow was concerned about his pro prospects, he would've gone to Alabama and played in a pro style offense with coaches that could've given him 4 years of work on how to run that offense.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:40 AM
I would take Tebow over ANY of these guys groomed for pro style.. Tebow may take longer to develop but he will win when he does.. most these other guys won't.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 09:42 AM
Macgruder, tell us all why mcd, the qb expert traded cutler for orton. Who has more talent, cutler or orton?



Because McD wanted a leader.. Orton was never meant to be the long term answer.. just a stop gap..

DarkHorse30
11-06-2011, 10:20 AM
That's you partner! ---> :homer:

I'm a homer because I said it's better for the TEAM to play the rook? I don't know if Tebow is going to get better, and I'm not saying he will.....and THAT'S a homer take?

You have to realize that the best thing to do this year, if you are sucking (I'm surprised a raider fan, of all people-would argue with letting their rook QB play it out - since the Raiders finally finished @ .500 last year, after SIX YEARS OF no better than FIVE wins. That's a ****load of sucking) is to PLAY the rook and FIND OUT if he is going to get better WHILE you are improving your draft position.

So using logic, foresight and planning is a homer take? No wonder the Raiders have sucked so much for so long.

And, Again I repeat - the Carson Palmer question this week is a lot bigger than the Tim Tebow question. I mean you guys climbed to 8-8 last season using all those low draft picks FOR SIX YEARS

2004-2nd pick
2006-7th pick
2007-1st pick (hello biggest draftbust of all time)
2008-4th pick
2009-7th pick
2010-8th pick

so I should really congratulate you on being ready for the SB after all that sucking. All you needed was a franchise QB.........and you BET THE FARM on Carson "eleven game losing streak" Palmer, who has a bad arm AND a bad leg.

..and Tebow is the over-riding concern in the game today? If he improves enough to win today that would mean he is improving which is good. If he doesn't and we lose, our draft position (on maybe picking a QB first) improves....which is also good. I figured win-win was a known phrase to most people.....maybe not raider fans.

OTOH, if 3-picks-in-a-half Palmer continues to look bad.....what will Raiderfans do?

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 10:23 AM
Because McD wanted a leader.. Orton was never meant to be the long term answer.. just a stop gap..

Oh, he traded Cutler for Aborton for his leadership, how'd that work out for the great qb evaluator McD?

& if McD did that for leadership, that was stupid as hell, a bad qb cant lead.

You are getting destroyed Macgruder.

If orton sucks as bad as you said, & tebow is so great, why did McD sign Orton to an extension after taking OTAs with Tebow? Why did he commit to sorry ass Kyle Orton with a 2 yr guaranteed extension, and never start TT even once when Orton clearly sucked!!!

Destroying you is sooooo easy.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-06-2011, 10:29 AM
http://screenrambler.com/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/macgruber-2.png

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 10:33 AM
Oh, he traded Cutler for Aborton for his leadership, how'd that work out for the great qb evaluator McD?

No. he was just tyring to get rid of Cutler because he wasn't a leader.

& if McD did that for leadership, that was stupid as hell, a bad qb cant lead.

In McD's system he could.. look what McD's system did for Orton. Made him put up Dan Marino numbers. same with Brady and Matt Cassel. Brayd is a 6th round pick after all..

If orton sucks as bad as you said, & tebow is so great, why did McD sign Orton to an extension after taking OTAs with Tebow? Why did he commit to sorry ass Kyle Orton with a 2 yr guaranteed extension, and never start TT even once when Orton clearly sucked!!!

Destroying you is sooooo easy.

Mcd was protecting Tebow from a crappy team.. still changing Tebow's motion for future success.

McD didn't think Orton could be as big a choker as he is... he thought he could trade Orton too.. If Orton hadn't been such a choker he could have been. That is something you can't evaluate though.. someone's ability to win. Which is what makes Tebow so valuable.. he's a proven winner. He just needs time in an NFL offense..OR a coach with the stones to play a different style.

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 10:39 AM
Why did the great qb evaluator sign Orton to a 2 year extension when the unstoppable force TT15 was there.

Macgruder, you don't know sht about the Broncos or football. You're a obsessed nutjob.

You can keep spinning your nonsense and lies to yourself, but having utterly and completely destroyed you, I'm calling it, TKO.

You are done.

Ignored.

macgruder
Champ doesn't know talent and john elway doesnt know quarterbacks, when it comes to talent, look no further than Josh McDaniels.

Play2win
11-06-2011, 10:47 AM
Why did the great qb evaluator sign Orton to a 2 year extension when the unstoppable force TT15 was there.

Macgruder, you don't know sht about the Broncos or football. You're a obsessed nutjob.

You can keep spinning your nonsense and lies to yourself, but having utterly and completely destroyed you, I'm calling it, TKO.

You are done.

Ignored.

What took you soooooo ****ing long... Hilarious! :rofl:

Maximus
11-06-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm a homer because I said it's better for the TEAM to play the rook? I don't know if Tebow is going to get better, and I'm not saying he will.....and THAT'S a homer take?



No you're a :homer: for saying this Carson Palmer has more to prove this week than Tim Tebow.....a LOT more. Raiders BET THE FARM on this outtashape-injury wrecked-has been QB.....BET THE FARM.

Meanwhile, Denver fans are worried that Tim Tebow might lose some games while he learns the pro game? Seriously?


Trying to draw a comparison between the two is like trying to compare Quantum Mechanics to Tebows Mechanics!

vonqkilla
11-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Look what McD's system did for Orton. Made him put up Dan Marino numbers.



Omg, where to start?

Wins? Points? Redzone production? Garbage time yards.
2009 rules vs 1985 rules

Marino vs Orton ???

The players around the league and in his own lockerroom are openly clowning Tebow.
You have no idea what his own wrs say privately, I do. Take Blloyds and x 10.

We are a joke and our qb cant beat COVER 1 because he cant pull the trigger.

Cya, good luck in the mental hospital, I hope they let you keep your Tebow dolls.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 10:59 AM
Tebow's being "clowned" simply because he is different.. this is what happens when you take a "different" player and don't use them to their strengths. Cam Newton would be in the exact sam position as Tebow if on this bad offense and with a bad coach..

It's incredible people can't see that. NFL "fans" have to be the dumbest people on the planet.

errand
11-06-2011, 11:51 AM
Cam had full #1 QB reps and prep BEFORE the season started... how is it even the same?

Versus having a full season in the league, and startiing three games last season? Really?


Newton has an offense designed around him and for him.

Tim's got the same OC he had last year...and some of the plays are the same as last season....it's not like they chucked McD's/McCoy's playbook aside completely...a good play is still a good play regardless of who came up with it.


The game has immensely changed since 2003. Your logic is ass anyways, that's like defending Shanahan with, "who coached the Broncos to two super bowl victories???"

The game hasn't changed as much as you young madden players think it has....you still gotta execute. Tackling and blocking still remain a huge part of the game...so does running the ball effectively. If you throw when they think you're gonna run, and vice versa...it still leads to big plays to this day.

Yeah, that's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that he's no longer a very good HC today.

there have been at least 30 head coaches in the league (league expanded to 32 in 1999?)...every season since 1978...and how many of them have even made it to the SB...let alone win it?

How many playoff games have the Broncos won since they made the superbowl???

I'd rather be a has been with two trophies outta 6 appearances then to have never made it at all.


in bold

errand
11-06-2011, 11:53 AM
I use to wish i could play QB good enough to be a starter in the NFL....now i just wish Tebow could.

errand
11-06-2011, 11:59 AM
People generally can't handle thoughts different than theirs...but when they're proven wrong or that their thought process is wrong, they just ignore it and continue to fail at life.



If people generally can't handle thoughts that differ from their own, wouldn't that also include you as well? Is it possible that perhaps you're wrong and everyone else is right?


I love how everyone who thinks they are on the cutting edge of football analysis thinks their opinions are right and everyone else's is wrong.

All i know is 10,000 bears aren't wrong about the taste of honey....

errand
11-06-2011, 12:06 PM
not defending Tebow exactly, just defending the fact that he's not getting a fair shake... so I'm defending his situation more so than the actual player.

Look, when Orton was starting all we heard from these clowns was how Tebow wouldn't have lost that game...or how Tebow wouldn't have looked lost out there....and now that he's starting and sucks ass, all of a sudden this team has problem areas that weren't big enough to absolve Orton of some of the blame.

I'd really wish someone could invent a time machine and we could go back to to the first six games....not because Orton was the starter, but because like all these Tebow nuthuggers claim -

the OL didn't suck until two weeks ago....

WR's never dropped a pass until two weeks ago....

the playcalling was excellent then, the QB just couldn't execute it....

our defense wasn't surrendering so many big plays....et al...ad nauseum

I don't hate the kid...i do however have a very strong dislike for his nuthugging fans that give him a pass when he sucks and blame the entire team without putting any culpability on him whatsoever.

DarkHorse30
11-06-2011, 12:14 PM
No you're a :homer: for saying this

Carson Palmer has more to prove this week than Tim Tebow.....a LOT more. Raiders BET THE FARM on this outtashape-injury wrecked-has been QB.....BET THE FARM.

Meanwhile, Denver fans are worried that Tim Tebow might lose some games while he learns the pro game? Seriously?

Trying to draw a comparison between the two is like trying to compare Quantum Mechanics to Tebows Mechanics!

I'm not comparing QBs, numbskull, I'm comparing owner/coach decisions. How can you not get this?

Denver playing a rookie QB to see what he has....

IS A LOT LESS RISKY (especially on a REALLY BAD TEAM)

....than OAKLAND BETTING THE FARM on a old QB that threatened to retire on his old team (even though they drafted a TE and WR in '09 in his last attempt at greatness) and before that he was on a 10 game losing streak - which he increased to eleven with his 3-pick coming out party for Oakland....in only a half of football.

MacGruder
11-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Look, when Orton was starting all we heard from these clowns was how Tebow wouldn't have lost that game...or how Tebow wouldn't have looked lost out there....

This is what is so comical.. the point was never that Tebow could beat Orton at HIS game.. Tebow doesn't have the experience and he was never meant to be that type of QB anyway..

The point was that Tebow has abilities Orotn doesn't.. this would make up for the problems the TEAM has.

Well if you aren't going to use Tebow's unique abilities and just force him to play like Orton.. WTF does that accomplish.

And to make things worse instead of actually USING Tebow they are now using the run more than letting Tebow pass or play.

Look how many times they ran the ball when Orton started versus the Raiders.. far less.

So why did they bring Tebow in to hand the ball off then expect him to bail the terrible run game out when they fail and he has no rhythm.

Dagmar
11-06-2011, 01:14 PM
blah blah.
http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2009/08/18/1250636422-shut_up664.jpg

errand
11-06-2011, 01:17 PM
Today my daughter was trying to throw an accurate spiral...and after a few failed attempts i commented "You throw like Tebow does..."

she got pissed and said "Screw you dad...I throw like a girl..."