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jhat01
11-04-2011, 11:16 AM
I was skimming PFT and ran across this quote from Fox on Tebow:

“The goofy thing is, it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his. It’s almost that kind of polarizing thing, they’ll say it could be his supporting cast, or the type of plays."

I get that he is frustrated, and I understand that he may be right, but do you really say something like this about your QB? I kind of like his candidness, but I think he's messing up if he keeps throwing this type of thing out there.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/04/john-fox-sounds-exasperated-with-criticism/

Rohirrim
11-04-2011, 11:20 AM
If this board doesn't prove that point, I don't know what does.

edog24
11-04-2011, 11:24 AM
In other words, "I don't know what else to do," great message from a HC, awesome.

That One Guy
11-04-2011, 11:26 AM
If the coach is saying it, you know the other players are even more defensive about it because they're the ones being blamed.

Powderaddict
11-04-2011, 11:26 AM
In other words, "I don't know what else to do," great message from a HC, awesome.

Well, when your depth chart consists of epically bad QB's, what can he do?

DrFate
11-04-2011, 11:29 AM
That quote shows a real lack of professionalism from the alleged 'man in charge'.

“As a coach or decision-maker in an NFL building, you don’t care what round they’re drafted in" - this simply isn't true. Guys all over the league (especially at QB) get more slack if they are round 1 picks than guys you pick up off the street.

If Fox isn't happy with Tebow, Fox should play somebody else. I thought he was the head coach?

I'll tell Fox the same thing I told Orton - if you don't know how to answer these reporters, watch Bull Durham and just say that.

Kaylore
11-04-2011, 11:37 AM
If this board doesn't prove that point, I don't know what does.

Tim Tebow's slow reads and poor mechanics that he came into the league with are all John Fox, Mike McCoy and Adam Gase's poor coaching, unimaginative play calling, the high altitude, the team not supporting him, every other player sucking, the offensive line sucking, the NFL being generally lame, the media being mean, non SEC school fans generally, and specifically LSU fans' fault.

jhns
11-04-2011, 11:41 AM
Tim Tebow's slow reads and poor mechanics that he came into the league with are all John Fox, Mike McCoy and Adam Gase's poor coaching, unimaginative play calling, the high altitude, the team not supporting him, every other player sucking, the offensive line sucking, the NFL being generally lame, the media being mean, non SEC school fans generally, and specifically LSU fans' fault.

So you are saying the supporting cast and play calling have been good? Do you want to break some of his play down and prove a real point? The haters keep crying and can't seem to come up with any real argument.

mr007
11-04-2011, 11:41 AM
That quote shows a real lack of professionalism from the alleged 'man in charge'.

“As a coach or decision-maker in an NFL building, you don’t care what round they’re drafted in" - this simply isn't true. Guys all over the league (especially at QB) get more slack if they are round 1 picks than guys you pick up off the street.

If Fox isn't happy with Tebow, Fox should play somebody else. I thought he was the head coach?

I'll tell Fox the same thing I told Orton - if you don't know how to answer these reporters, watch Bull Durham and just say that.

Did you actually read the article? He never said he isn't happy with Tebow, he said he's frustrated with the absolutely ridiculous publicity and finger pointing/blame going on "it's almost like if he doesn't have success it will be anybody's fault but his."

He goes on to say they're doing everything they can and they are "finding out about a young Quarterback, GOOD, BAD, OR INDIFFERENT"

He's sick of the same things that are making me sick - which is the Tebow nut huggers who can't just let him play and see how he develops. They are placing all the blame on everyone but Tebow, ohhh the bad play calling, ohhh he needs more crossing routes, ohh he needs to be setup to be able to make some passes to get him warm, OMG the receivers suck, OMG the oline sucks. blah blah blah.

It's all ****ing nonsense. I want the kid to succeed as bad as anyone else, he has a great attitude and work ethic, but the fact is his throwing motion is atrocious and he has been missing receivers by miles and looks lost out there.

I'm more than willing to give him a chance - the rest of the season, to see if he can improve and show enough that he can *become* the QBOTF. Just sick of idiots like MacGruder who have already crowned him when he has done nothing at all to deserve praise with the exception of working hard.

McDman
11-04-2011, 11:42 AM
And that'll pretty much put the end to the Tebow era in Denver. Even if he starts the rest of the season I assume it is safe to say he is done here.

bowtown
11-04-2011, 11:43 AM
Tim Tebow's slow reads and poor mechanics that he came into the league with are all John Fox, Mike McCoy and Adam Gase's poor coaching, unimaginative play calling, the high altitude, the team not supporting him, every other player sucking, the offensive line sucking, the NFL being generally lame, the media being mean, non SEC school fans generally, and specifically LSU fans' fault.

Apparently you haven't been keeping up, the latest is that Tebow actually played pretty well against Detroit.

bowtown
11-04-2011, 11:46 AM
If the coach is saying it, you know the other players are even more defensive about it because they're the ones being blamed.

This. Fox is a players' coach. He's standing up for the other 52 players on the team.

jhns
11-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Apparently you haven't been keeping up, the latest is that Tebow actually played pretty well against Detroit.

Name his problems. Give some examples. Prove it isn't blind hate.

yerner
11-04-2011, 11:47 AM
And that'll pretty much put the end to the Tebow era in Denver. Even if he starts the rest of the season I assume it is safe to say he is done here.

yep.

That One Guy
11-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Name his problems. Give some examples. Prove it isn't blind hate.

I usually like you but this is just silly.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Did you actually read the article?

Indeed I did. How many other head coaches in the league would go on record about a current player and say:

“The goofy thing is, it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his. It’s almost that kind of polarizing thing,” Fox told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “They’ll say it could be his supporting cast, or the type of plays."

It's PR 101 here. 'He's a young QB', 'We are working hard to get better as a team', 'Everyone, including me, needs to do a better job'.

Why is Fox frustrated about anything the fans say? It certainly isn't the media - with the exception of Skip Bayless, the media has killed Tebow at every opportunity.

jhns
11-04-2011, 11:52 AM
I usually like you but this is just silly.

You may think so. How many have you seen give examples and actually break down his play? I can prove that people are talking out their ass as soon as they actually try responding to that post. From what I have seen, people are way off on what actually happened.

gyldenlove
11-04-2011, 11:53 AM
Name his problems. Give some examples. Prove it isn't blind hate.

His accuracy is atrocious, his footwork makes a tap dancer with parkinsons look well planted, he couldn't read a defense if every player wore demotivational poster style frames with their specific coverage written in large neon letters and he gets so flustered when pressured it makes a 16 year old girl having a PMS induced hissy fit look reasoned and intelligent.

jhns
11-04-2011, 11:56 AM
His accuracy is atrocious, his footwork makes a tap dancer with parkinsons look well planted, he couldn't read a defense if every player wore demotivational poster style frames with their specific coverage written in large neon letters and he gets so flustered when pressured it makes a 16 year old girl having a PMS induced hissy fit look reasoned and intelligent.

Notice how these posters have zero examples to back what they are saying? It is just the same stupid crap repeated over and over. You guys did watch the game, right?

Lets start with reading defenses. When did he throw to the wrong guy or hold the ball with open guys down field? This should be easy as your response claims it is every play.

mr007
11-04-2011, 11:57 AM
Indeed I did. How many other head coaches in the league would go on record about a current player and say:

“The goofy thing is, it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his. It’s almost that kind of polarizing thing,” Fox told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “They’ll say it could be his supporting cast, or the type of plays."

It's PR 101 here. 'He's a young QB', 'We are working hard to get better as a team', 'Everyone, including me, needs to do a better job'.

Why is Fox frustrated about anything the fans say? It certainly isn't the media - with the exception of Skip Bayless, the media has killed Tebow at every opportunity.

Yeah you're right - he should have spoken a lot different publicly even if he felt like the staff was being unfairly criticized. Fair enough.

broncocalijohn
11-04-2011, 12:02 PM
Name his problems. Give some examples. Prove it isn't blind hate.

Do you realize that most that are bagging on Tebow were huge supporters of him the week before? You are just taking the handoff from macgruber. We just saw the game. It was horrific. Besides the first drive, it went downhill from there until the Lions backed off and he still threw a pick six in the process. Wake up dude! You want to keep bringing up McDaniels fans still living in La La Land but you are doing the same with Tebow's 110 (out of 120) minutes of football the last two games.

He plain sucked against the Lions! Add the first 55 minutes of the Miami game and we now know that if there isnt major improvement, we are going a different direction next season..... or later this season.

You want to know about wrong guy? How about the 4th quarter crossing pattern on 3rd down? He misses I believe Royal wide open and ball goes behind him and Decker almost makes a catch. It was either a ****ed up throw to Royal or he threw to the wrong receiver. Commander in King = JHNS

TheReverend
11-04-2011, 12:06 PM
5 star thread.

Can't wait to see end results when I get back on Monday.

DBroncos4life
11-04-2011, 12:07 PM
Notice how these posters have zero examples to back what they are saying? It is just the same stupid crap repeated over and over. You guys did watch the game, right?

Lets start with reading defenses. When did he throw to the wrong guy or hold the ball with open guys down field? This should be easy as your response claims it is every play.

The two dropped INT's and the one pick 6 was to the wrong guy. Well maybe he was trying to throw the ball to the Lions. Lets talk about his 6 sacks he has taken on 3rd down. How about the 35% comp percentage on 3rd down? Not like it matters he is averaging only 1.47 yards per completed passes on 3rd down anyways.

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:07 PM
Do you realize that most that are bagging on Tebow were huge supporters of him the week before? You are just taking the handoff from macgruber. We just saw the game. It was horrific. Besides the first drive, it went downhill from there until the Lions backed off and he still threw a pick six in the process. Wake up dude! You want to keep bringing up McDaniels fans still living in La La Land but you are doing the same with Tebow's 110 (out of 120) minutes of football the last two games.

He plain sucked against the Lions! Add the first 55 minutes of the Miami game and we now know that if there isnt major improvement, we are going a different direction next season..... or later this season.

You want to know about wrong guy? How about the 4th quarter crossing pattern on 3rd down? He misses I believe Royal wide open and ball goes behind him and Decker almost makes a catch. It was either a ****ed up throw to Royal or he threw to the wrong receiver. Commander in King = JHNS

Notice how the typical breakdown gives zero breakdown.

I am the problem for trying to actually discuss football. You guys aren't the problem as you come to a football board to give us this amazing analysis of, "Who cares what happened? He just sucks cause I say so!"...

Funny and sad.

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:12 PM
The two dropped INT's and the one pick 6 was to the wrong guy. Well maybe he was trying to throw the ball to the Lions. Lets talk about his 6 sacks he has taken on 3rd down. How about the 35% comp percentage on 3rd down? Not like it matters he is averaging only 1.47 yards per completed passes on 3rd down anyways.

Two dropped ints? When did those happen?

The pick six was the correct read. It was a poor throw.

Those other things are great breakdowns. Which receivers were open on the sacks? Do you have any specifics? Not throwing it away, or your line getting smoked, is not the same as Tebow being unable to read a defense. This is pretty basic stuff. Again, the haters can't give examples, they just know everything is on Tebow. Some is, just not for the reasons being given.

broncocalijohn
11-04-2011, 12:13 PM
^ Dip****, read the last part of the post. I did do just that. Did I have to add the interceptions too? You also think everyone here is blaming Tebow 100%. Orton was doing a better job in most games and we still loss. We are getting sacked MORE now with Tebow in there instead of less. Orton got rid of the ball and is less mobile. What else do you need to know? We got our ass handed to us by the Lions 45 to 10! We couldnt complete a 3rd down until what, the 10th time trying? Give it up Jizz. You are ****ing sad on this one. So far in two games, he isnt what I want in a starting QB. He keeps this up and he will be back at the Wild Horse gimmick plays.

What part you want to defend, the poor reads or his lack of getting rid of the ball? Either way, it doesnt spell out very well for Tebow. Also, maybe provide us with the coaches video so we can see the angles that werent used on national tv.

Rohirrim
11-04-2011, 12:15 PM
^ Dip****, read the last part of the post. I did do just that. Did I have to add the interceptions too? You also think everyone here is blaming Tebow 100%. Orton was doing a better job in most games and we still loss. We are getting sacked MORE now with Tebow in there instead of less. Orton got rid of the ball and is less mobile. What else do you need to know? We got our ass handed to us by the Lions 45 to 10! We couldnt complete a 3rd down until what, the 10th time trying? Give it up Jizz. You are ****ing sad on this one. So far in two games, he isnt what I want in a starting QB. He keeps this up and he will be back at the Wild Horse gimmick plays.

What part you want to defend, the poor reads or his lack of getting rid of the ball? Either way, it doesnt spell out very well for Tebow. Also, maybe provide us with the coaches video so we can see the angles that werent used on national tv.

McD lover! Rams fan!

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:16 PM
^ Dip****, read the last part of the post. I did do just that. Did I have to add the interceptions too? You also think everyone here is blaming Tebow 100%. Orton was doing a better job in most games and we still loss. We are getting sacked MORE now with Tebow in there instead of less. Orton got rid of the ball and is less mobile. What else do you need to know? We got our ass handed to us by the Lions 45 to 10! We couldnt complete a 3rd down until what, the 10th time trying? Give it up Jizz. You are ****ing sad on this one. So far in two games, he isnt what I want in a starting QB. He keeps this up and he will be back at the Wild Horse gimmick plays.

What part you want to defend, the poor reads or his lack of getting rid of the ball? Either way, it doesnt spell out very well for Tebow. Also, maybe provide us with the coaches video so we can see the angles that werent used on national tv.

You are a joke. He had a bad throw on a pass that hit two receivers in the hands(ok, went right through the first one)?

You are too dumb to be part of this conversation.

So we are running the same offense as we did with Orton? We have the same skill players? A guy making his fifth start should be as polished as a seven year vet?

All dumb.

Still no breakdowns given.

broncocalijohn
11-04-2011, 12:24 PM
My mistake, Tebow actually had a pretty good game given what he was given. What were WE thinking Jizz?

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:24 PM
McD lover! Rams fan!

Stop trying to pass your problems off to others.

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:26 PM
My mistake, Tebow actually had a pretty good game given what he was given. What were WE thinking Jizz?

Notice how you still refuse to break any of it down? You clearly know what happened!

Oh yeah, that ball that hit two guys in the hands was just terrible! He really should have goven them a chance!

That One Guy
11-04-2011, 12:27 PM
My mistake, Tebow actually had a pretty good game given what he was given. What were WE thinking Jizz?

Maybe we're optimists and wanted to believe one player sucks rather than 52 suck.

I have no NFL coaching or video experience so I can't quantify to the degree jhns seems to be asking but I know from where I was watching, it sure looked like just about any QB other than Tebow would've been the better option. Again, maybe it's a wrong point (I say his sincerely), but to ignorant eyes, Tebow looked absolutely terrible.

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:30 PM
Maybe we're optimists and wanted to believe one player sucks rather than 52 suck.

I have no NFL coaching or video experience so I can't quantify to the degree jhns seems to be asking but I know from where I was watching, it sure looked like just about any QB other than Tebow would've been the better option. Again, maybe it's a wrong point (I say his sincerely), but to ignorant eyes, Tebow looked absolutely terrible.

This is pretty much my point. I thought it looked way worse the first time. I got through a little more than three quarters yesterday, actually breaking down each play. I timed howong he held the ball. I watched receivers when possible. Tebow wasn't half as bad as is being claimed.

His two biggest problems are: He doesn't get his feet under him to throw when flushed from the pocket. He doesn't know when to throw it away.

troya900
11-04-2011, 12:30 PM
This. Fox is a players' coach. He's standing up for the other 52 players on the team.

God I can't stand this line of thinking. Except for a very select few, who else can honestly be upset with Tebow? How about they all look inward at themselves. Starting with Franklin, Beadles, etc. the list is long. They are freaking horrible and did nothing to help Tebow in that game. Yes, Tebow played horribly and shares the blame, but these guys were freaking turnstyles out there. Lineman in Tebow's face all day long. On the fumble returned for a TD, Tebow had no damn chance as Franklin didn't even touch his guy. The defense played horribly as well. I mean Tebow has to improve drastically that's a given, but he's still only started 2 damn games this year it's ridiculous that he isn't even given a chance when the likes of AbOrton had 2 years of miserable fail.

Orange4Life
11-04-2011, 12:31 PM
We are such a joke. I don't care who or what the fix is but just do it soon please.

Rolandftw
11-04-2011, 12:41 PM
Jhns seems to be competing with McGruder for biggest Tebow fan.

bronclvr
11-04-2011, 12:42 PM
What still gets me is that he threw, the last three Games last year, well, pretty darn well-what happened from then to now? Are we dealing with Phillip Rivers' younger brother here?

There wasn't a change of OC's-they've gone more to the Shotgun-what is different?

That One Guy
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
God I can't stand this line of thinking. Except for a very select few, who else can honestly be upset with Tebow? How about they all look inward at themselves. Starting with Franklin, Beadles, etc. the list is long. They are freaking horrible and did nothing to help Tebow in that game. Yes, Tebow played horribly and shares the blame, but these guys were freaking turnstyles out there. Lineman in Tebow's face all day long. On the fumble returned for a TD, Tebow had no damn chance as Franklin didn't even touch his guy. The defense played horribly as well. I mean Tebow has to improve drastically that's a given, but he's still only started 2 damn games this year it's ridiculous that he isn't even given a chance when the likes of AbOrton had 2 years of miserable fail.

The line can hardly be expected to hold when they seem to send everyone on their team after Tebow. Tebow has to burn a few teams to get them to respect the pass. I suspect that if teams were just sending 4 like usual, the line would hold up just fine.

As others have pointed out, we're getting sacked more with Tebow than with Orton. Remember all those jokes about Orton going fetal? Tebow is out-doing him on sacks. You think the line just suddenly forgot how to block?

Pony Boy
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
How could Fox be frustrated, he went 2 and 14 got a new gig in Denver....and might go 2 and 14 in Denver and keep his job... go figure

That One Guy
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
What still gets me is that he threw, the last three Games last year, well, pretty darn well-what happened from then to now? Are we dealing with Phillip Rivers' younger brother here?

There wasn't a change of OC's-they've gone more to the Shotgun-what is different?

Agreed. That has surprised me as well.

I suspect many Tebow fans are surprised as well but noone wants crow.

bendog
11-04-2011, 12:45 PM
I find it amusing that anyone has issues with what Fox said. It's the truth. The apparant outrage proves his pt. LOL

Everyone likes Tebow. Whether he can master the skills and a system is a question.

Shotgun Willie
11-04-2011, 12:46 PM
What still gets me is that he threw, the last three Games last year, well, pretty darn well-what happened from then to now?

He sucked throwing against Oakland last year. He only threw well in the 2nd half against Houston, and look at the context there: mostly garbage time against literally the 32nd ranked passing defense in the league. Basically the same against San Diego.

DarkHorse
11-04-2011, 12:47 PM
Fox does not like Tebow - everyone here knows this already. Tebow is a flash in the pan this year, nothing more. EFX is already looking at the 2012 season, this season is much like simming your first season in Madden so you can get to the draft and pick your own guys.

bendog
11-04-2011, 12:50 PM
Fox does not like Tebow - everyone here knows this already. Tebow is a flash in the pan this year, nothing more. EFX is already looking at the 2012 season, this season is much like simming your first season in Madden so you can get to the draft and pick your own guys.

But it's nothing personal. Fox clearly is not impressed with his skill. And even champ is frustrated and he's the ultimate 'say the right thing' kind of guy. And I gotta admit, chilling a beer on Monday after work to sit down and fast forward to offensive possessions and watch and rewatch individula plays isn't nearly as much fun as when I did the same only with my old vcr and direct tickect when shanny was here.

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:52 PM
Jhns seems to be competing with McGruder for biggest Tebow fan.

I'm not even that big of a fan. The hatred is just that retarded.

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:54 PM
But it's nothing personal. Fox clearly is not impressed with his skill. And even champ is frustrated and he's the ultimate 'say the right thing' kind of guy. And I gotta admit, chilling a beer on Monday after work to sit down and fast forward to offensive possessions and watch and rewatch individula plays isn't nearly as much fun as when I did the same only with my old vcr and direct tickect when shanny was here.

You didn't dven watch it as you now claim you broke it down...

This is easy to see from what you have been claiming hapoened in the game. Why don't you tell us exactly what he is doing wrong. I would love some examples.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 12:54 PM
I find it amusing that anyone has issues with what Fox said. It's the truth.

Gabbert is terrible. His numbers are worse than Tebow's. Do we see Del Rio throwing him under the bus to reporters?

The Colts/Dolphins/Cardinals/Rams are all terrible. Do we see their coaches bad mouthing the players to the media?

Plenty of things are 'true'. Doesn't mean you go to the nearest guy with a microphone or a notepad and say 'ya know, this team sucks donkey donuts'

It makes Fox look very small to me (and I was pretty pleased they got him because I thought he would be the 'grown up' in the room).

jhns
11-04-2011, 12:58 PM
Gabbert is terrible. His numbers are worse than Tebow's. Do we see Del Rio throwing him under the bus to reporters?

The Colts/Dolphins/Cardinals/Rams are all terrible. Do we see their coaches bad mouthing the players to the media?

Plenty of things are 'true'. Doesn't mean you go to the nearest guy with a microphone or a notepad and say 'ya know, this team sucks donkey donuts'

Fox has come put in support of Tebow. He basically laughed at the drama queens as he explained that Tebow just had his fifth start. This quote sounds bad, but it is probably also out of context.

Shotgun Willie
11-04-2011, 12:58 PM
Gabbert is terrible. His numbers are worse than Tebow's. Do we see Del Rio throwing him under the bus to reporters?


Ummmm, polar opposite scenario. Nobody is blaming anyone and everyone on that team but Gabbert. They are already blaming him, so there's no need for the coach to act confused by people who refuse to do it.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Nobody is blaming anyone and everyone on that team but Gabbert. They are already blaming him, so there's no need for the coach to act confused by people who refuse to do it.

Read this board. What percentage blames 'anyone and everyone but' Tebow?

10%?

You don't go to a reporter and kill your players. Period.

For example: 11/01/11 - QB Blaine Gabbert is struggling in his rookie season and is the 33rd-ranked quarterback with a 62.0 passer rating. When coach Jack Del Rio was asked if he felt there were one thing Gabbert needed to work on, he said, "Fortunately, we don't have to narrow ourselves to working on one thing because there's a lot of things we need to work on. We will identify the things that we need to be better at and put in the time."

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:03 PM
15 seconds and Google will find fans who say the same thing about Gabbert:

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/10/31/2527932/blaine-gabbert-is-not-going-to-make-excuses-for-his-play-but-i-will

TotallyScrewed
11-04-2011, 01:05 PM
"At the end of the day, we are what we are. We’re doing everything we can to win, and we’re finding out about a young quarterback, good, bad or indifferent.”

Fox has a funny notion of what "doing everything we can to win" means. Fox should have said "We've given up, because we don't believe..." That is a very bold statement..."We're doing everything..." And it's an absolute lie.

We're running 30% more plays from the shotgun...because that's the only problem.

Shhheesh.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-04-2011, 01:05 PM
I've never seen an organization do such a poor job in defending their starting quarterback... or their starting player at that. The Broncos literally don't say anything positive, and act as if Tebow is a burden to them. I mean even the Niners were defending ALEX SMITH every year...

This organization is a raging pile of http://www.loveyourbaby.com/images/baby-poop-diaper.jpg

Shotgun Willie
11-04-2011, 01:05 PM
Read this board. What percentage blames 'anyone and everyone but' Tebow?

10%?

You don't go to a reporter and kill your players. Period.

Fox isn't responding to this board. He's responding to the John Lynch's of this world and other media members who are specifically claiming that the playcalling and the overal situations that Tebow is being put in by the coaching staff are to blame. I don't think Del Rio and Co. are facing the same type of scrutiny, or at least to the same extent.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:08 PM
Fox isn't responding to this board. He's responding to the John Lynch's of this world and other media members who are specifically claiming that the playcalling and the overal situations that Tebow is being put in by the coaching staff are to blame. I don't think Del Rio and Co. are facing the same type of scrutiny, or at least to the same extent.

The media, as a group, are killing Tebow at every turn. Lynch is an exception, I guess. So it's not 'everyone'.

Part of Fox's job is to deal with criticism the right way. Sacrificing a player (regardless of his performance) just doesn't fly with me. I guess next week he'll kill Franklin for being a turnstile or Dawkins for letting another WR run free in the end zone.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:09 PM
He's responding to the John Lynch's of this world and other media members who are specifically claiming that the playcalling and the overal situations that Tebow is being put in by the coaching staff are to blame.

And I'd love to read whatever Lynch said. Or any other media person who has put the blame on Fox/the staff/the playcalling.

Powderaddict
11-04-2011, 01:11 PM
Dammit I really didn't need to see a poopy diaper.

I still don't see how Fox threw anyone under the bus. I think the other players in the locker room (the ones that will be here next year) probably appreciate what he said.

jhns
11-04-2011, 01:12 PM
And I'd love to read whatever Lynch said. Or any other media person who has put the blame on Fox/the staff/the playcalling.

He did it while announcing the game. He was continually calling them out for not calling quick passes and screens designed to beat the heavy rush. I don't think you will find the comments in print.

TotallyScrewed
11-04-2011, 01:13 PM
The line can hardly be expected to hold when they seem to send everyone on their team after Tebow. Tebow has to burn a few teams to get them to respect the pass. I suspect that if teams were just sending 4 like usual, the line would hold up just fine.

As others have pointed out, we're getting sacked more with Tebow than with Orton. Remember all those jokes about Orton going fetal? Tebow is out-doing him on sacks. You think the line just suddenly forgot how to block?

No. I think the line is different for a left-handed QB versus a right-handed QB. Do you think Franklin and Clady are interchangeable? I also think that Orton had a WR named Brandon Lloyd who is better than anybody Denver currently has at WR. Where are the screens and slants and TE drags and bootlegs and sprint-outs and moving pockets? They're right there with "We're doing everything we can to win", statements.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:13 PM
He was continually calling them out for not calling quick passes and screens designed to beat the heavy rush.

Was Lynch on the most recent podcast? :~ohyah!:

bendog
11-04-2011, 01:15 PM
Gabbert is terrible. His numbers are worse than Tebow's. Do we see Del Rio throwing him under the bus to reporters?

The Colts/Dolphins/Cardinals/Rams are all terrible. Do we see their coaches bad mouthing the players to the media?

Plenty of things are 'true'. Doesn't mean you go to the nearest guy with a microphone or a notepad and say 'ya know, this team sucks donkey donuts'

It makes Fox look very small to me (and I was pretty pleased they got him because I thought he would be the 'grown up' in the room).

I read what Fox said I don't think he threw Tebow under the bus. he threw the tebowites under the bus, and I'll volunteer to drive the bus over them. Fox said everyone wants tebow to succeed (correct statement) and the ultimately the question of whether tebow succeeds is up to tebow (correct statement) and that fans should stop trying to make excuses that the "blame" lies elsewhere. (correct statement)

Look the kid's gotta show he can locate the 1-1 guys when defenses go 8 in the box and throw a catchabel ball to the open one. Elway didn't play initially, then did and even got yanked for a game that Kubes ended up starting, and then got back in. Any coach has to go with the guys he thinks are best players at a given time.

Rolandftw
11-04-2011, 01:16 PM
Thing is, there isn't this massive outcry from Gabbert fans claiming the rest of the Jaguars suck. Missouri fans are vocal, but not that vocal. And obviously, Gabbert was brought in by the Jaguars administration. Tebow was NOT brought in by the current Broncos regime. I imagine there are some coaches, maybe even players on the Broncos that wouldn't mind getting rid of Tebow.

There's also likely people in the Broncos organization that strongly believe in Tebow.

Fox is just frustrated because in some fans view Tebow can do no wrong, and it's the line, coaching staff, injuries, wide receivers and everyone else's fault.

troya900
11-04-2011, 01:17 PM
"At the end of the day, we are what we are. We’re doing everything we can to win, and we’re finding out about a young quarterback, good, bad or indifferent.”

Fox has a funny notion of what "doing everything we can to win" means. Fox should have said "We've given up, because we don't believe..." That is a very bold statement..."We're doing everything..." And it's an absolute lie.

We're running 30% more plays from the shotgun...because that's the only problem.

Shhheesh.

Maybe they are doing everything THEY can. End result = incompetence

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:23 PM
I read what Fox said I don't think he threw Tebow under the bus. he threw the tebowites under the bus, and I'll volunteer to drive the bus over them. Fox said everyone wants tebow to succeed (correct statement) and the ultimately the question of whether tebow succeeds is up to tebow (correct statement) and that fans should stop trying to make excuses that the "blame" lies elsewhere. (correct statement)

We'll just have to disagree. I've re-read this like six times:

"The goofy thing is, it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his. It’s almost that kind of polarizing thing,” Fox told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “They’ll say it could be his supporting cast, or the type of plays."

What Fox is saying is:

'he's not having success and it's his fault. It's not the fault of his supporting cast and it's not the fault of the playcalling'.

Two things come to mind. One, I've never see an NFL head coach say this type of thing about an active player. (has anyone?) Two, I don't see how this comment really helps anyone.


Look the kid's gotta show he can locate the 1-1 guys when defenses go 8 in the box and throw a catchabel ball to the open one.

We all agree on this (except macgruder)

bendog
11-04-2011, 01:31 PM
We'll just have to disagree. I've re-read this like six times:

"The goofy thing is, it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his. It’s almost that kind of polarizing thing,” Fox told Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times. “They’ll say it could be his supporting cast, or the type of plays."

What Fox is saying is:

'he's not having success and it's his fault. It's not the fault of his supporting cast and it's not the fault of the playcalling'.

Two things come to mind. One, I've never see an NFL head coach say this type of thing about an active player. (has anyone?) Two, I don't see how this comment really helps anyone.



We all agree on this (except macgruder)

True, but I think it's safe to say the NFL has never seen anything like Tebowmania which makes it an offense against Christ himself to think this kid sucks right now. Maybe he'll get better. And actually I think it's in his best interest to out the tebowites now. My guess is that Fox is gonna have to bench him after two more games if he hasn't figured it out. That's not the end of his career. And, he's under contract with financial terms that make any trade unlikely at best. I'm not sold on Gase as a qb coach, but Jake Delhomme hung around the Saints for a couple of years before becomming a decent starting qb for a decade.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't see a trade being possible either. I'm of the opinion that none of the current QBs on the team will be here when 2012 starts. Fox will go out and get a vet backup in the off season (Flynn from GB?) and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3 round. And the top 5 pick will be another defense player.

Powderaddict
11-04-2011, 01:44 PM
What Fox is saying is:

'he's not having success and it's his fault. It's not the fault of his supporting cast and it's not the fault of the playcalling'.


I read it as he said "it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his"". If. Not when.

I don't really see it as throwing Tebow under the bus at all, more like sticking up for the rest of the staff and other players. It's also a commentary on the Lunatic Tebow fans (not all Tebow fans, but the crazy Tebow-can-do-no-wrong fans)

He's not coddling Tebow by any means, but Tebow doesn't really need to be coddled.

HorseHead
11-04-2011, 01:47 PM
I know I have to give him a chance, tell me myself to chill...but Fox comes off as egg head. I also know I am being a hypocrite, because if we were 5-2..well...

Please Jesus and Baby Jesus...let the D get some takeaways Sunday..

gyldenlove
11-04-2011, 01:49 PM
Notice how these posters have zero examples to back what they are saying? It is just the same stupid crap repeated over and over. You guys did watch the game, right?

Lets start with reading defenses. When did he throw to the wrong guy or hold the ball with open guys down field? This should be easy as your response claims it is every play.

Because I am feeling generous today I will throw you a bone.

Tebow against the Lions:

2nd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack and fumble due to poor mechanics.

3rd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack on an aborted pass

4th drive: 2 incompletions on overthrown passes.

5th drive: see 4th drive

6th drive: 1 pass, on the money but only 2 yards on a 3rd and 3 (poor read).

7th drive: Another sack, another bad pass.

In the 1st half half Tebow completed 4 passes, had 1 delay of game, 9 incomplete passes of which 1 was dropped, took 3 sacks including a strip sack because of his bad mechanics, failed to convert a single 3rd down.

I counted 5 incompletions thrown beyond the reciver with no chance of a catch, I counted 3 thrown to a covered reciever in a position where the DB could bat the ball.

In the 2nd half he gave 1 TD away with his enormous wind up on the fumble recovery, a QB with good throwing mechanics would have gotten that ball out. On the interception he threw the ball behind the receiver right to the CB, it was a poorly thrown pass.

Here is a video you will enjoy, it shows QB Jesus being amazing:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8239ec09/No-repeat-at-Mile-High

bendog
11-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Well, isn't Tebow's money for next year guaranteed? Fox is clearly frustrated with the tebowites, but who isn't. LOL He was pretty much forced to play the kid even though the results were what he probably expected (absent the horror of getting a W in mia.) But the fans who are football fans as opposed to tied to a particular player for emotional or political reason aren't gonna be hopping on the tebow wagon so fast again ... unless he somehow manages to "get it." I don't think they're gonna eat his contract. And really, can he be worse than Brad Van Pelt in terms of not giving a team any chance ... assuming the entire team doesn't emit a noxious odor of major suckage? LOL

Dilfer, Breese, Warner are all guys who won LOMBARDIs for teams, but who were pulled off scrap heaps. Way too early to give up on the kid. I think he's a multi-year project though.

IF Elway likes Barkely I think they take him. But honestly I like the Arkansas red shirt jr ... but I don't think I've ever seen Barkley play so my opinion is wotth jack****e.

DrFate
11-04-2011, 01:54 PM
Well, isn't Tebow's money for next year guaranteed?

Anyone know offhand?

Eldorado
11-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Because I am feeling generous today I will throw you a bone.

Tebow against the Lions:

2nd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack and fumble due to poor mechanics.

3rd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack on an aborted pass

4th drive: 2 incompletions on overthrown passes.

5th drive: see 4th drive

6th drive: 1 pass, on the money but only 2 yards on a 3rd and 3 (poor read).

7th drive: Another sack, another bad pass.

In the 1st half half Tebow completed 4 passes, had 1 delay of game, 9 incomplete passes of which 1 was dropped, took 3 sacks including a strip sack because of his bad mechanics, failed to convert a single 3rd down.

I counted 5 incompletions thrown beyond the reciver with no chance of a catch, I counted 3 thrown to a covered reciever in a position where the DB could bat the ball.

In the 2nd half he gave 1 TD away with his enormous wind up on the fumble recovery, a QB with good throwing mechanics would have gotten that ball out. On the interception he threw the ball behind the receiver right to the CB, it was a poorly thrown pass.

Here is a video you will enjoy, it shows QB Jesus being amazing:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8239ec09/No-repeat-at-Mile-High

**** just got real.

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 01:56 PM
If this board doesn't prove that point, I don't know what does.

It's one thing for us mopes to say it. It is another matter entirely for the HC to publicly say it. Thafrick is wrong with that guy? It's not a Tebow thing, it is a backing your players thing.

Same attitude permeated the club on Sunday. Nobody had any fight or grit in them. They rolled over like scared twats and took it in the arse. The OL in particular (with the exception of Kuper who showed some give a damn). When they're dancing over your QB and pissing on your leg you start taking f'ers out. Tha hell is wrong with these guys? They don't have each other's backs. They don't play with pride. They don't even look like they give a damn. In short, they're playing like a bunch of pussies and I'm starting to think it is an attitude that starts with the coaching staff.

What the hell else should I expect from a guy who won 2 games last year though? Nice hire.

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 01:59 PM
I read what Fox said I don't think he threw Tebow under the bus. he threw the tebowites under the bus, and I'll volunteer to drive the bus over them. Fox said everyone wants tebow to succeed (correct statement) and the ultimately the question of whether tebow succeeds is up to tebow (correct statement) and that fans should stop trying to make excuses that the "blame" lies elsewhere. (correct statement)

Look the kid's gotta show he can locate the 1-1 guys when defenses go 8 in the box and throw a catchabel ball to the open one. Elway didn't play initially, then did and even got yanked for a game that Kubes ended up starting, and then got back in. Any coach has to go with the guys he thinks are best players at a given time.

McCoy's the dickbag calling play action when they're blitzing. Thafrick is that dumb ****?

"It's a zero coverage blitz for the 10th time today. We'll beat them with play action, or QB draw. Screens, bubble passes, bull****"

F these guys.

Name me a single player who has gotten better under this coaching staff this year. A single one who wouldn't have been just as well off had he never run into this collection of retards.

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 02:01 PM
Well, isn't Tebow's money for next year guaranteed? Fox is clearly frustrated with the tebowites, but who isn't. LOL He was pretty much forced to play the kid even though the results were what he probably expected (absent the horror of getting a W in mia.) But the fans who are football fans as opposed to tied to a particular player for emotional or political reason aren't gonna be hopping on the tebow wagon so fast again ... unless he somehow manages to "get it." I don't think they're gonna eat his contract. And really, can he be worse than Brad Van Pelt in terms of not giving a team any chance ... assuming the entire team doesn't emit a noxious odor of major suckage? LOL

Dilfer, Breese, Warner are all guys who won LOMBARDIs for teams, but who were pulled off scrap heaps. Way too early to give up on the kid. I think he's a multi-year project though.

IF Elway likes Barkely I think they take him. But honestly I like the Arkansas red shirt jr ... but I don't think I've ever seen Barkley play so my opinion is wotth jack****e.

We either start Tebow, lose but see what the kid can do. Or we start Orton, lose, and know what Orton can do as he leaves town after which we still have the Tebow situation to deal with. Tha hell?

But I'm beyond that now. Now I'm looking at each player and how they perform, how well they're prepared, and who the f gets any better whatsoever because I am quickly coming around to the position that there is not a single member of this coaching staff that is worth two limp f's in a rag.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-04-2011, 02:01 PM
Because I am feeling generous today I will throw you a bone.

Tebow against the Lions:

2nd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack and fumble due to poor mechanics.

3rd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack on an aborted pass

4th drive: 2 incompletions on overthrown passes.

5th drive: see 4th drive

6th drive: 1 pass, on the money but only 2 yards on a 3rd and 3 (poor read).

7th drive: Another sack, another bad pass.

In the 1st half half Tebow completed 4 passes, had 1 delay of game, 9 incomplete passes of which 1 was dropped, took 3 sacks including a strip sack because of his bad mechanics, failed to convert a single 3rd down.

I counted 5 incompletions thrown beyond the reciver with no chance of a catch, I counted 3 thrown to a covered reciever in a position where the DB could bat the ball.

In the 2nd half he gave 1 TD away with his enormous wind up on the fumble recovery, a QB with good throwing mechanics would have gotten that ball out. On the interception he threw the ball behind the receiver right to the CB, it was a poorly thrown pass.

Here is a video you will enjoy, it shows QB Jesus being amazing:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8239ec09/No-repeat-at-Mile-High

So in this log, does it take into account if WR's are open, if play calling is shoddy, if the oline missed assignments, etc...? Does it take into account if the OC is helping Tebow read the defense, and letting him know where to go with the ball?

You wasted your time on a completely useless post...

Damn, people are dumb. :rofl:

HooptyHoops
11-04-2011, 02:04 PM
Name me a single player who has gotten better under this coaching staff this year. A single one who wouldn't have been just as well off had he never run into this collection of retards.

Wow..that is very telling and I never thought about it.....this sucks!!

fontaine
11-04-2011, 02:05 PM
I find it amusing that anyone has issues with what Fox said. It's the truth. The apparant outrage proves his pt. LOL

Everyone likes Tebow. Whether he can master the skills and a system is a question.

Exactly.

I like Fox for being honestly, openly frustrated.

That's exactly how I expect a coach who's asked his coordinators/assistants to change the offense around the QB and the results aren't there. Exactly how I expect a coach to react who wants desperately to win/improve now.

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 02:05 PM
God I can't stand this line of thinking. Except for a very select few, who else can honestly be upset with Tebow? How about they all look inward at themselves. Starting with Franklin, Beadles, etc. the list is long. They are freaking horrible and did nothing to help Tebow in that game. Yes, Tebow played horribly and shares the blame, but these guys were freaking turnstyles out there. Lineman in Tebow's face all day long. On the fumble returned for a TD, Tebow had no damn chance as Franklin didn't even touch his guy. The defense played horribly as well. I mean Tebow has to improve drastically that's a given, but he's still only started 2 damn games this year it's ridiculous that he isn't even given a chance when the likes of AbOrton had 2 years of miserable fail.

Exactly. Not many, if any, of those other 52 men and the coaching staff showed any sack at all. They were individually and collectively neutered on national tv and laid there like whipped puppies while taking it. They all need to take a look at themselves and decide if they have an ounce of f'ing pride left because that was what Sunday became about. Adversity, tenacity and pride and this team failed on all counts in a fashion that was disgusting to witness. Denver didn't field a team of men, they were scared and whipped boys going out there just hoping to make it go away so they could collect their game checks and get their day off. Show some sack you fanciful, prancing, pricks!

Rohirrim
11-04-2011, 02:07 PM
It's one thing for us mopes to say it. It is another matter entirely for the HC to publicly say it. Thafrick is wrong with that guy? It's not a Tebow thing, it is a backing your players thing.

Same attitude permeated the club on Sunday. Nobody had any fight or grit in them. They rolled over like scared twats and took it in the arse. The OL in particular (with the exception of Kuper who showed some give a damn). When they're dancing over your QB and pissing on your leg you start taking f'ers out. Tha hell is wrong with these guys? They don't have each other's backs. They don't play with pride. They don't even look like they give a damn. In short, they're playing like a bunch of pussies and I'm starting to think it is an attitude that starts with the coaching staff.

What the hell else should I expect from a guy who won 2 games last year though? Nice hire.

Don't blame me. I wanted Harbaugh. Bowlen wouldn't come up with that kind of money.

jhns
11-04-2011, 02:08 PM
Because I am feeling generous today I will throw you a bone.

Tebow against the Lions:

2nd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack and fumble due to poor mechanics.

3rd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack on an aborted pass

4th drive: 2 incompletions on overthrown passes.

5th drive: see 4th drive

6th drive: 1 pass, on the money but only 2 yards on a 3rd and 3 (poor read).

7th drive: Another sack, another bad pass.

In the 1st half half Tebow completed 4 passes, had 1 delay of game, 9 incomplete passes of which 1 was dropped, took 3 sacks including a strip sack because of his bad mechanics, failed to convert a single 3rd down.

I counted 5 incompletions thrown beyond the reciver with no chance of a catch, I counted 3 thrown to a covered reciever in a position where the DB could bat the ball.

In the 2nd half he gave 1 TD away with his enormous wind up on the fumble recovery, a QB with good throwing mechanics would have gotten that ball out. On the interception he threw the ball behind the receiver right to the CB, it was a poorly thrown pass.

Here is a video you will enjoy, it shows QB Jesus being amazing:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8239ec09/No-repeat-at-Mile-High

First drive: The sack fumble happened when Tebow was throwing. The ball was stripped in just under three seconds. That play is clearly on Franklin, who got dominated. How was it poor mechanics? One incompletion was a perfect throw to Decker and the other was him throwing the ball into the ground when they covered the screen.

Drive 6: What? That was the play design. Who should he have thrown to?

I agree that I saw abput five uncatchable balls. The other part is a QB throwing to one on one, which is what he is supposed to do.

You really didn't break anything down. You just called every incompletion a bad pass and pointed out where he was sacked. I will finish this when I get home though. It is hard to guess what plays you are talking about with such poor descriptions.

Rohirrim
11-04-2011, 02:08 PM
So in this log, does it take into account if WR's are open, if play calling is shoddy, if the oline missed assignments, etc...? Does it take into account if the OC is helping Tebow read the defense, and letting him know where to go with the ball?

You wasted your time on a completely useless post...

Damn, people are dumb. :rofl:

How did I already know that would be the reaction to that post? :yayaya:

ChrisToker
11-04-2011, 02:09 PM
You didn't dven watch it as you now claim you broke it down...

This is easy to see from what you have been claiming hapoened in the game. Why don't you tell us exactly what he is doing wrong. I would love some examples.

Tell us what the **** he is doing right then!!!! Since you are looking at game film and talk a big talk "What the **** is he doing right?"

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 02:10 PM
Exactly.

I like Fox for being honestly, openly frustrated.

That's exactly how I expect a coach who's asked his coordinators/assistants to change the offense around the QB and the results aren't there. Exactly how I expect a coach to react who wants desperately to win/improve now.

F Fox and his pretend friend to honesty. He's scape goating. He's building his bomb shelter and Tebow is his cover. F him the f'ing coward. I guarantee Tim takes responsibility for sucking. Tebow didn't go out there and suck it up amidst all pro performances by the other 52 players and coaching staff. That is NOT what happened. That performance sucked by every one of them. That team was not prepared. That team has no desire, pride, passion, or courage and it is clear where the cowardice and lack of personal reflection begins and ends and it is on Fox. The buck stops at the top Foxy boy. Take off your skirt, put on your big boy pants, and be a f'ing man for once you blithering twat.

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Don't blame me. I wanted Harbaugh. Bowlen wouldn't come up with that kind of money.

I'm not blaming anybody here for it and I don't have the time, energy, or give a f*** to go back through the site and find posts about who liked or disliked hiring Fox. Hell, I probably liked it at the time if for no other reason than it was change and I am eager for this team to change and improve. However, something that is becoming clear as we go forward is the insignificance, yes, insignificance of this coaching staff. They do not seem to matter a whit, or if they do matter it is for the worse. We're half way through the season and, as I continue to point out, I'm not sure I can find a player on this club that has benefitted or improved under this coaching staff.

jhns
11-04-2011, 02:14 PM
Tell us what the **** he is doing right then!!!! Since you are looking at game film and talk a big talk "What the **** is he doing right?"

Lots of stuff. I will post a full breakdown when I get home and finish it.

He clearly has worked on his feet. The only time his footwork was bad was when he was flushed from the pocket, or hit. He made the right read on all but one play that he threw the ball on, so he can clearly read defenses. He only ran one time on a passing play through the first 3 quarters(this is all the further that I made it in the breakdown). He was very accurate on many throws, including about half of the incompletions.

This line, the receivers, and the coaching staff is just as bad, if not worse, than Tebow is.

peacepipe
11-04-2011, 02:16 PM
So in this log, does it take into account if WR's are open, if play calling is shoddy, if the oline missed assignments, etc...? Does it take into account if the OC is helping Tebow read the defense, and letting him know where to go with the ball?You wasted your time on a completely useless post...

Damn, people are dumb. :rofl:

LOL, do you expect McCoy or Fox to hold his hand out there on the field. they're doing all they can to show him. the problem is tebow simply is unable to properly read defenses.

It doesn't matter how wide open the wrs are if the QB over throws them by ten yds.
It doesn't matter how good the play calling is if the QB can't execute it.

The oline w/orton 9 sacks over 5 games, w/tebow 13 sacks over 2 games.

Rohirrim
11-04-2011, 02:18 PM
I'm not blaming anybody here for it and I don't have the time, energy, or give a **** to go back through the site and find posts about who liked or disliked hiring Fox. Hell, I probably liked it at the time if for no other reason than it was change and I am eager for this team to change and improve. However, something that is becoming clear as we go forward is the insignificance, yes, insignificance of this coaching staff. They do not seem to matter a whit, or if they do matter it is for the worse. We're half way through the season and, as I continue to point out, I'm not sure I can find a player on this club that has benefitted or improved under this coaching staff.

No amount of coaching will turn dog **** into a dog.

fontaine
11-04-2011, 02:21 PM
F Fox and his pretend friend to honesty. He's scape goating. He's building his bomb shelter and Tebow is his cover. F him the f'ing coward. I guarantee Tim takes responsibility for sucking. Tebow didn't go out there and suck it up amidst all pro performances by the other 52 players and coaching staff. That is NOT what happened. That performance sucked by every one of them. That team was not prepared. That team has no desire, pride, passion, or courage and it is clear where the cowardice and lack of personal reflection begins and ends and it is on Fox. The buck stops at the top Foxy boy. Take off your skirt, put on your big boy pants, and be a f'ing man for once you blithering twat.

Well, get used to it or get over it.

This team has a lot of weakenesses and it's not going to be better in a hurry.

Taco John
11-04-2011, 02:31 PM
Name me a single player who has gotten better under this coaching staff this year. A single one who wouldn't have been just as well off had he never run into this collection of retards.

A single player? Eric Decker.

Who can guess how he'd look under another coaching staff, but he's looked pretty good this season all things considered.

DenverBrit
11-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Well, get used to it or get over it.

This team has a lot of weakenesses and it's not going to be better in a hurry.

Exactly. It's a 3 year re-build through the draft.

Speaking at the team's predraft news conference, Elway and Xanders emphasized the need for the Broncos to rebuild the franchise through the draft, not through free agency.

"The core group that's going to help us win for a long time, consistently win, is guys that we pick up through the draft," Elway said.


That's been the message from the beginning and it hasn't changed.

The days of throwing money at overpriced FA's has gone. Thankfully!!

i4jelway7
11-04-2011, 02:35 PM
Because I am feeling generous today I will throw you a bone.

Tebow against the Lions:

2nd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack and fumble due to poor mechanics.

3rd drive: 1 incompletion on a poor throw, 1 sack on an aborted pass

4th drive: 2 incompletions on overthrown passes.

5th drive: see 4th drive

6th drive: 1 pass, on the money but only 2 yards on a 3rd and 3 (poor read).

7th drive: Another sack, another bad pass.

In the 1st half half Tebow completed 4 passes, had 1 delay of game, 9 incomplete passes of which 1 was dropped, took 3 sacks including a strip sack because of his bad mechanics, failed to convert a single 3rd down.

I counted 5 incompletions thrown beyond the reciver with no chance of a catch, I counted 3 thrown to a covered reciever in a position where the DB could bat the ball.

In the 2nd half he gave 1 TD away with his enormous wind up on the fumble recovery, a QB with good throwing mechanics would have gotten that ball out. On the interception he threw the ball behind the receiver right to the CB, it was a poorly thrown pass.

Here is a video you will enjoy, it shows QB Jesus being amazing:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8239ec09/No-repeat-at-Mile-High


Game Set Match

Archer81
11-04-2011, 02:36 PM
Exactly. It's a 3 year re-build through the draft.


That's been the message from the beginning and it hasn't changed.

The days of throwing money at overpriced FA's has gone. Thankfully!!


I think this FO looks at the draft as the primary mode for acquiring talent (obviously, from what they have said) but will not spend a ton of money on FA's until the team is close talent wise to competing for a championship.

:Broncos:

edog24
11-04-2011, 02:44 PM
I'm not blaming anybody here for it and I don't have the time, energy, or give a **** to go back through the site and find posts about who liked or disliked hiring Fox. Hell, I probably liked it at the time if for no other reason than it was change and I am eager for this team to change and improve. However, something that is becoming clear as we go forward is the insignificance, yes, insignificance of this coaching staff. They do not seem to matter a whit, or if they do matter it is for the worse. We're half way through the season and, as I continue to point out, I'm not sure I can find a player on this club that has benefitted or improved under this coaching staff.

At this point I think we just have to get pretty thick skinned around here for the next couple years. Does anyone honestly expect anything more than below average to average records with Fox as the HC? I could care less who is playing QB, as long as they win the damn game. What Fox has shown me is that is not innovative and seems to think it's ok to throw his starting qb under the bus.

Shotgun Willie
11-04-2011, 02:44 PM
Exactly. It's a 3 year re-build through the draft.


That's been the message from the beginning and it hasn't changed.

The days of throwing money at overpriced FA's has gone. Thankfully!!

Or underpriced FAs.....as evidenced by their completely ignoring all the young, top level talent at DT that went for relatively short money this past offseason.

troya900
11-04-2011, 02:46 PM
Game Set Match

Hilarious!

bowtown
11-04-2011, 02:47 PM
A single player? Eric Decker.

Who can guess how he'd look under another coaching staff, but he's looked pretty good this season all things considered.

Miller seems to be getting better each week. Bunkley looks better than he looked in an Eagles uniform. Walton is playing better than he did last year. Larsen is still not a real FB but he's been much more involved this year. They've done a noble job of disguising Dawkin's complete inability to do anything other than rush the QB or stop the run. Our punt coverage unit this year is light years ahead of where it was last year. This team is making baby steps. Most of them are happening on defense and STs because that's what our coach's specialty is. That's was why is was brought in. It's not going to happen all at once, and we probably do need to bring in a stronger OC than McCoy to help develop the other. There are improvements being made though.

Rolandftw
11-04-2011, 02:47 PM
Lots of stuff. I will post a full breakdown when I get home and finish it.

He clearly has worked on his feet. The only time his footwork was bad was when he was flushed from the pocket, or hit. He made the right read on all but one play that he threw the ball on, so he can clearly read defenses. He only ran one time on a passing play through the first 3 quarters(this is all the further that I made it in the breakdown). He was very accurate on many throws, including about half of the incompletions.

This line, the receivers, and the coaching staff is just as bad, if not worse, than Tebow is.

lol. His footwork is horrid. Very accurate on many of his throws? Made the right read on all but one play? Did you even watch the game?

The line is not the main problem. How it is the ****ing line's fault when they send seven players after the QB? Last time I checked either the QB needs to call an audible or look for a quick read.

He's terrible at handling blitzes and until that changes, he's not a suitable fit for QB in this league.

Powderaddict
11-04-2011, 02:50 PM
A single player? Eric Decker.

Who can guess how he'd look under another coaching staff, but he's looked pretty good this season all things considered.

Walton's looked a little better. Which isn't saying much since he was so bad last year.

DenverBrit
11-04-2011, 02:54 PM
Or underpriced FAs.....as evidenced by their completely ignoring all the young, top level talent at DT that went for relatively short money this past offseason.

After this season, they should know who's going to be a player and who's moving on. I would expect to see more decisive FA moves.

The shut out really hurt the team, just as it was predicted it would.

BroncoBeavis
11-04-2011, 02:56 PM
Maybe don't trade away your top two receivers and get nothing in return.

A little late to say "There's nothing I can do."

You already did.

jhns
11-04-2011, 02:57 PM
lol. His footwork is horrid. Very accurate on many of his throws? Made the right read on all but one play? Did you even watch the game?

The line is not the main problem. How it is the ****ing line's fault when they send seven players after the QB? Last time I checked either the QB needs to call an audible or look for a quick read.

He's terrible at handling blitzes and until that changes, he's not a suitable fit for QB in this league.

Fine. Now what plays did he make the wrong reads on? Where was his footwork bad when he wasn't flushed from the pocket?

You aren't exactly bringing facts to the table. I can't go see the errors in my breakdown if this is all you have.

bendog
11-04-2011, 03:06 PM
Anyone know offhand?

Sorry I didn't see your post. Tebow's fully guaranteed (absent the escalators for number games played) though 2013

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_15667056?source=rss

I just don't see Den eating this, nor should they. He's a hard working guy who could be a servicable qb in two years.

Rolandftw
11-04-2011, 03:06 PM
What do you want? A play by play analysis of his performance?

I honestly don't remember many plays where his footwork was NOT terrible. Don't really see the point of listing 30 plays that were terrible. He takes FOREVER on his reads. You say the line is to blame despite our line getting very good grades overall for the game. You say the receivers were to blame.. some dropped balls but a lot more that weren't even catchable. I agree that the Moreno/Ball tandem hurt our running game. And that we don't have anything close to elite WR's.

And you haven't pointed out any specific plays either. All you've said is he's improved his footwork. Haven't said what plays you've seen this improvement.

bowtown
11-04-2011, 03:08 PM
Sorry I didn't see your post. Tebow's fully guaranteed (absent the escalators for number games played) though 2013

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos2009/ci_15667056?source=rss

I just don't see Den eating this, nor should they. He's a hard working guy who could be a servicable qb in two years.

Or a really versatile FB next year.

bendog
11-04-2011, 03:09 PM
I find the posts of "they traded his best wr....." amusing, considering his best reciever warned that the tebowmania would be a circus and orton was the best qb. And people wonder why Elway fired the guy just before giving in to tebowmania.

jhns
11-04-2011, 03:13 PM
I find the posts of "they traded his best wr....." amusing, considering his best reciever warned that the tebowmania would be a circus and orton was the best qb. And people wonder why Elway fired the guy just before giving in to tebowmania.

He also was crying to the media about Orton, play calling, and not getting the ball. This was before Orton was benched.

The point? Who cares?

They gave away the two top receivers on this team. They did this a year after giving away Marshall, and yes I know Fox and Ellway weren't here then. This team is very poorly run.

troya900
11-04-2011, 03:15 PM
I find the posts of "they traded his best wr....." amusing, considering his best reciever warned that the tebowmania would be a circus and orton was the best qb. And people wonder why Elway fired the guy just before giving in to tebowmania.


Warned us from what? That going 2-14 or 3-13 with AbOrton was the way to go?

jhns
11-04-2011, 03:17 PM
What do you want? A play by play analysis of his performance?

I honestly don't remember many plays where his footwork was NOT terrible. Don't really see the point of listing 30 plays that were terrible. He takes FOREVER on his reads. You say the line is to blame despite our line getting very good grades overall for the game. You say the receivers were to blame.. some dropped balls but a lot more that weren't even catchable. I agree that the Moreno/Ball tandem hurt our running game. And that we don't have anything close to elite WR's.

And you haven't pointed out any specific plays either. All you've said is he's improved his footwork. Haven't said what plays you've seen this improvement.

Give me two examples of him making the wrong read.

The run game wasn't that bad. There were only like five really bad throws by Tebow. So, yes, I would like examples. It is pretty clear that you are just throwing **** up against the wall. I will give you a full breakdown of every Tebow play in about two hours.

Rolandftw
11-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Give me two examples of him making the wrong read.

The run game wasn't that bad. There were only like five really bad throws by Tebow. So, yes, I would like examples. It is pretty clear that you are just throwing **** up against the wall. I will give you a full breakdown of every Tebow play in about two hours.

According to ESPN Tebow was 2-13 with a pick six when Detroit sent 5 or more pass rushers. So, look at those plays and/or our third down plays and you should have your answer.

jhns
11-04-2011, 03:28 PM
According to ESPN Tebow was 2-13 with a pick six when Detroit sent 5 or more pass rushers. So, look at those plays and/or our third down plays and you should have your answer.

That is a good stat to work with. I may have to expand my breakdown.

Popps
11-04-2011, 03:30 PM
Fox was forced into starting a QB who wasn't ready by an angry mob of fans... a few weeks into his tenure. The standard response was... "Orton wasn't winning." Well, Orton at least looked like he was capable of making basic NFL throws. At this point, I can't imagine anyone doubts the sincerity of the staff when they told you early on... "he's not ready."

Orton (like Tebow) regressed this year... but it's clear now in watching Tebow play why the staff didn't want him out there. How do you build an offense around a guy who can't throw a ball accurately? Beyond that, we don't even know how much of the offense he even understands.

I like Tebow, I always have. But, I think McDaniels actually had it right with him. Develop him slooooolwy, work him into the offense 5-10 plays per game, and let him digest the NFL situation at a pace that wouldn't hurt the team.

Fox stepped into a ****-storm. Doesn't surprise me one bit that he'd be upset with it.
I'm pretty sure everyone at Dove Valley will be happy to get this experiment over with, one way or another... and that includes the possibility of Tebow proving the critics wrong. I'm certain that would be the best outcome for all... but the odds look low at this point.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-04-2011, 03:52 PM
Give me two examples of him making the wrong read.

The run game wasn't that bad. There were only like five really bad throws by Tebow. So, yes, I would like examples. It is pretty clear that you are just throwing **** up against the wall. I will give you a full breakdown of every Tebow play in about two hours.

One of the guys on itsalloverfatman showed two plays where he probably made the wrong read, but at least recognized the right coverage. If thats true, then hopefully this will come in time.

Or he could be dropping back, getting nervous, and has no ****ing clue. I sometimes think that about him.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-04-2011, 04:01 PM
Fox was forced into starting a QB who wasn't ready by an angry mob of fans... a few weeks into his tenure. The standard response was... "Orton wasn't winning." Well, Orton at least looked like he was capable of making basic NFL throws. At this point, I can't imagine anyone doubts the sincerity of the staff when they told you early on... "he's not ready."

Orton (like Tebow) regressed this year... but it's clear now in watching Tebow play why the staff didn't want him out there. How do you build an offense around a guy who can't throw a ball accurately? Beyond that, we don't even know how much of the offense he even understands.

I like Tebow, I always have. But, I think McDaniels actually had it right with him. Develop him slooooolwy, work him into the offense 5-10 plays per game, and let him digest the NFL situation at a pace that wouldn't hurt the team.

Fox stepped into a ****-storm. Doesn't surprise me one bit that he'd be upset with it.
I'm pretty sure everyone at Dove Valley will be happy to get this experiment over with, one way or another... and that includes the possibility of Tebow proving the critics wrong. I'm certain that would be the best outcome for all... but the odds look low at this point.

Fox also made a huge ****ing misstep and should not be let off the hook for it. If he played Tim in goal line situations at the beginning of the year, the broncos would be competitive right now. We lost both the raiders game and tenn game because we couldnt punch the ball in. That is timmy time. If the broncos were 4-3 now or whatever with Orton playing and tim contributing, we would have been fine. But he didn't do that. The bronco brass knew the situation and opened pandora's box due to mismanagement.

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 04:11 PM
Well, get used to it or get over it.

This team has a lot of weakenesses and it's not going to be better in a hurry.

Losing is part of life. Dealing with it like a f'ing man and keeping your pride and playing with heart are what differentiate between swinging dick studs who have earned the right to walk tall despite failure and whining twats.

Life has failure, everybody fails. Do you buckle and cry, whine, point, blame and give up; leaving your team and team mates down on the ground to be pissed on and mocked or do you sack the f up and play with pride, determination and grit; ultimately kicking any showing off, condescending prick in his throat for thinking he has any right to belittle you, your team, or your efforts? I expect, I demand, that these guys play with some f'ing pride and unity no matter the score or situation. Short of that it isn't a team I want to root for. Hell, it is easy to root for a winner, I am happy to take pride in my team when it is losing but only if they carry themselves with dignity, play with pride and act as men. Sunday's club was not a group of men. Let's see who shows up to beat the Raiders because I guarantee it better be a TEAM of MEN running out of that tunnel on Sunday or they'll be f'ing embarrassed again. Losing is part of life, being embarrassed is not.

The OL left Tebow to be mocked out there. I played OL, nobody gets away with the **** the Lions pulled on any self respecting OLman. It isn't about Tim, it is about protecting your guys. Period. You want me to fly into that locker room and tell them the same I'm happy and eager to do it because this isn't news to anybody who has played the game as a man and the coaching staff should have already had this little heart to heart with them. If not they should pack their bags and GTFO and go sell used condoms at highway rest stops.

ScottXray
11-04-2011, 04:16 PM
According to ESPN Tebow was 2-13 with a pick six when Detroit sent 5 or more pass rushers. So, look at those plays and/or our third down plays and you should have your answer.

And Tebow routinely got less than 3 seconds before being under pressure when they sent 5 or more. Franklin was a Friggin turnstile and there were several sacks where two or THREE rushers met at the QB (Including the strip sack). They also routinely had every outlet lane plugged so he couldn't run. Meanwhile most of the receivers were running 20 yard outs or more and not getting open. The receivers ALSO are supposed to make hot reads.

The entire offense stunk, and Tebow is not alone in not recognizing blitzes.
I'm not saying he didn't play badly. He does need to learn ( quickly) to recognize and check off. An experienced receiving crew and O line would help with this. Mostly we have 2nd year receivers ( other than Royal) and only Kuper and Clady have more than 2 years on the line. So the pressurte is routinely coming at Walton, Beadles, and Franklin and they are not getting their job done either. Running is Moreno and Ball. The old hand there ( McGahee) is not in the game the last few weeks.

It is a perfect storm of suck!

So this week we get the Raiders and they will try to have a party in our backfield, just like Miami and the Lions did. If Orton had been playing the last two weeks ( and faced the same rush with the same offensive calls) he would have been sacked a lot also..he also just would have thrown the ball away more. It is a learning thing.

And remember Tebow/Orton practice against OUR defense....not something that is likely to give you a sense of what REAL NFL defenses can do.

If they want him to really learn they need to start doing real hitting in practice and actually go full speed. Damn the injuries...we suck anyway.

DenverBroncosJM
11-04-2011, 04:33 PM
I really think if Fox just started Tebow out the gate a lot of this heat/talk/ etc. wouldnt have happened. Benching Orton and then putting Tebow in is at least part of the reason so much is being made of this.

Mogulseeker
11-04-2011, 05:39 PM
I was skimming PFT and ran across this quote from Fox on Tebow:

“The goofy thing is, it’s almost like if he doesn’t have success it will be anybody’s fault but his. It’s almost that kind of polarizing thing, they’ll say it could be his supporting cast, or the type of plays."

I get that he is frustrated, and I understand that he may be right, but do you really say something like this about your QB? I kind of like his candidness, but I think he's messing up if he keeps throwing this type of thing out there.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/04/john-fox-sounds-exasperated-with-criticism/

He's talking about the Tebow fanboys, and he's right.

peacepipe
11-04-2011, 05:50 PM
And Tebow routinely got less than 3 seconds before being under pressure when they sent 5 or more. Franklin was a Friggin turnstile and there were several sacks where two or THREE rushers met at the QB (Including the strip sack). They also routinely had every outlet lane plugged so he couldn't run. Meanwhile most of the receivers were running 20 yard outs or more and not getting open. The receivers ALSO are supposed to make hot reads.

The entire offense stunk, and Tebow is not alone in not recognizing blitzes.
I'm not saying he didn't play badly. He does need to learn ( quickly) to recognize and check off. An experienced receiving crew and O line would help with this. Mostly we have 2nd year receivers ( other than Royal) and only Kuper and Clady have more than 2 years on the line. So the pressurte is routinely coming at Walton, Beadles, and Franklin and they are not getting their job done either. Running is Moreno and Ball. The old hand there ( McGahee) is not in the game the last few weeks.

It is a perfect storm of suck!

So this week we get the Raiders and they will try to have a party in our backfield, just like Miami and the Lions did. If Orton had been playing the last two weeks ( and faced the same rush with the same offensive calls) he would have been sacked a lot also..he also just would have thrown the ball away more. It is a learning thing.

And remember Tebow/Orton practice against OUR defense....not something that is likely to give you a sense of what REAL NFL defenses can do.

If they want him to really learn they need to start doing real hitting in practice and actually go full speed. Damn the injuries...we suck anyway.I doubt that, orton doesn't have a problem getting rid of the ball or reading defenses. he still sucked though.

ghwk
11-04-2011, 06:26 PM
I couldn't stand 5 pages of this so I skipped to the end. This I'm sure was just as successful in reaching koom-by-yah as any of the WPR threads are.

Oh yeah I hate jhns and Gruder. Can we at least all agree on that? :rofl:

fontaine
11-04-2011, 06:38 PM
The OL left Tebow to be mocked out there. I played OL, nobody gets away with the **** the Lions pulled on any self respecting OLman. It isn't about Tim, it is about protecting your guys. Period. You want me to fly into that locker room and tell them the same I'm happy and eager to do it because this isn't news to anybody who has played the game as a man and the coaching staff should have already had this little heart to heart with them. If not they should pack their bags and GTFO and go sell used condoms at highway rest stops.

No they didn't.

The OL (Franklin/Beadles) did the same thing they've been doing all year. The difference in this game was that Tebow hung onto the ball too long at times and got sacked for it.

And as far as pride/passion from the coaches goes? Yeah that's great and all when the team is winning. But that gets old real fast when things aren't so good and "we're just trying to win a m******king game."

Popps
11-04-2011, 06:41 PM
Fox also made a huge ****ing misstep and should not be let off the hook for it. If he played Tim in goal line situations at the beginning of the year, the broncos would be competitive right now. We lost both the raiders game and tenn game because we couldnt punch the ball in. That is timmy time. If the broncos were 4-3 now or whatever with Orton playing and tim contributing, we would have been fine. But he didn't do that. The bronco brass knew the situation and opened pandora's box due to mismanagement.

Yea, with hindsight... it's tough to argue that. I've personally wondered why we couldn't use him as a utility weapon this year when we managed to do it pretty well last year.

I'm assuming the staff thought they'd keep better control of the team and keep the genie in the bottle better that way. It was already such a distraction... I'm assuming they thought they'd only make it worse by giving him spot-duty.

But, it seems to me like a combination of Orton/Tebow would have been pretty effective until we figured out our QB situation for good.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Yea, with hindsight... it's tough to argue that. I've personally wondered why we couldn't use him as a utility weapon this year when we managed to do it pretty well last year.

I'm assuming the staff thought they'd keep better control of the team and keep the genie in the bottle better that way. It was already such a distraction... I'm assuming they thought they'd only make it worse by giving him spot-duty.

But, it seems to me like a combination of Orton/Tebow would have been pretty effective until we figured out our QB situation for good.

Wasnt even hindsight, i think a bunch of us were calling for it then. They were wrong. Flat out. They've really mismanaged this at every step...starting with marketing the team with tebow's likeness this off season, to the botched trade, and so on

Not to mention, they employed this strategy last year and it worked perfectly. I dont think it would have been a distraction

DarkHorse
11-04-2011, 06:52 PM
I was in the camp of 'get Orton out and anyone else in there' - but after watching Tebow the last couple of weeks as a starter? Man, you can't play NFL QB that bad - you just can't. He looks worse than horrible to me right now. I'm all for giving him another week, maybe 2, but if he continues to play as bad as he has been then it's time to bring in the next guy.

Face it, the guy would have a really really hard time hitting the broadside of a barn. Regardless of play calling, it's his accuracy (lack of) that is most baffling. I didn't think there could be a worse QB in the game than Russell or Leaf and then along comes Tebow and his crazy inaccurate throws.

I'm hoping the "next guy" is Adam Weber - i'd like to see what he has to offer moving forward. It's obvious that QB is a #1 need of this team right now. Even if Tebow somehow wills a couple of games to us - his accuracy in the new pass first NFL will NEVER let us succeed.

cutthemdown
11-04-2011, 07:02 PM
So you are saying the supporting cast and play calling have been good? Do you want to break some of his play down and prove a real point? The haters keep crying and can't seem to come up with any real argument.

You kidding. He gets back to pass, has an open wr, defenders are 4-5 steps away and still get there before he can wind up and throw the ball. Doesn't matter what the play is. If Tebow can't throw to the first read he's screwed because it takes him too long to reload and find the next receiver.

The play calling last week they were going downfeild to try and get the defense off the LOS a bit. They spread the field and let him take 60 plus percent from the shotgun, what more can they do.

GreatBronco16
11-04-2011, 07:18 PM
What still gets me is that he threw, the last three Games last year, well, pretty darn well-what happened from then to now? Are we dealing with Phillip Rivers' younger brother here?

There wasn't a change of OC's-they've gone more to the Shotgun-what is different?

He was still calling McDs plays from what I saw last year. This years offense is not the same playcalling that happend last year with Tebow playing.

Hamrob
11-04-2011, 07:22 PM
If the coach is saying it, you know the other players are even more defensive about it because they're the ones being blamed.Tough ****.

Bench Tebow...Play Orton...hell, play Elway.

This team sucks................and John Fox is absolutely Pathetic!!!

Any coach that makes statements like that should be shipped out of town the next morning. What a pathetic piece of ****!!!

Hamrob
11-04-2011, 07:25 PM
Whether you love or hate Tebow...the facts are the facts. His performance, although up and down, is not out of the ordinary for a player starting his 5th NFL game. I'm not sure if the "so-called" experts ever actually stop flapping their cock suckers to consider the facts. The facts are, that Tim Tebow has performed at or above the level of many other QB's who are not getting blasted so openly across all media outlets. I've never seen such disdain for a young QB coming out of college since Ryan Leaf. This is crazy and sad. That so many people would turn on a kid after so few starts. Wow!

Take a look at these players stats below and explain to me how Tim Tebow has performed worse than any of the group??? And save the mechanics and footwork argument for someone who gives a rip. Those are items that can be improved over time natuarally!

Tim Tebow
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13200/tim-tebow
Sam Bradford
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13197/sam-bradford
Blaine Gabbert
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13987/blaine-gabbert
Christian Ponder
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13966/christian-ponder
Colt McCoy
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13199/colt-mccoy
Steve Young
http://www.nfl.com/player/steveyoung/2503843/careerstats
John Elway
http://www.nfl.com/player/johnelway/2500547/profile
Peyton Manning
http://www.nfl.com/player/peytonmanning/2501863/careerstats

Eldorado
11-04-2011, 09:36 PM
That is a good stat to work with. I may have to expand my breakdown.

Break down please. Can't wait!!

RaiderH8r
11-04-2011, 09:41 PM
No they didn't.

The OL (Franklin/Beadles) did the same thing they've been doing all year. The difference in this game was that Tebow hung onto the ball too long at times and got sacked for it.

And as far as pride/passion from the coaches goes? Yeah that's great and all when the team is winning. But that gets old real fast when things aren't so good and "we're just trying to win a m*******ing game."

Yes, they did. They were pouting like little girls with skinned knees.

I've played, did my part in college and all that and had no business playing as well as I did for as long as I did in my very modest little football life. I have taken ever loving whoopings on the score board but I guess I just was never one to let myself be personally humiliated or shown up by some clown without taking my pound of flesh. At some point the score is a foregone conclusion and they start showing you up it is time to go ahead and take the 15 yd penalty in defense of what little dignity you have left.

Dagmar
11-04-2011, 09:59 PM
Alex Mack (Browns center) just retweeted this article about Hillis http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/post-5758-1225601204.gif

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_peyton_hillis_hamstring_contract_browns1104 11

Basically saying that his teammates want him to stop being a bitch.

Cito Pelon
11-05-2011, 12:52 AM
What still gets me is that he threw, the last three Games last year, well, pretty darn well-what happened from then to now? Are we dealing with Phillip Rivers' younger brother here?

There wasn't a change of OC's-they've gone more to the Shotgun-what is different?

Yeah, I've seen him throw better. Have to see how he does once he's settled in a little bit more.

I don't mind too much people saying "he sucks", because he has the past two games. Dude needs some seasoning most certainly.

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 12:56 AM
If Tebows throws start looking better I would feel a little better about him. I don't mind so much confused as to where to throw the ball. but his throwing motion is so easy to strip, its like holding a big piece of meat out for a hungry lion when the dline see's that ball. He seems stubborn about protection the ball, stripped QB = 6 points the other way more often then not.

Cito Pelon
11-05-2011, 01:01 AM
The line can hardly be expected to hold when they seem to send everyone on their team after Tebow. Tebow has to burn a few teams to get them to respect the pass. I suspect that if teams were just sending 4 like usual, the line would hold up just fine.

As others have pointed out, we're getting sacked more with Tebow than with Orton. Remember all those jokes about Orton going fetal? Tebow is out-doing him on sacks. You think the line just suddenly forgot how to block?

That's the way I see it also. It's the same strategy teams used against Orton, or any QB that's a little shaky passing. "Prove you can burn us passing, because we're betting you'll screw up or at least not execute consistently."

And just like with Orton, not having a D that can keep you in games, get you some turnovers makes the strategy that much easier to execute.

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 01:41 AM
Tebow getting cut will be the greatest day in our franchise.

Shotgun Willie
11-05-2011, 06:34 AM
Whether you love or hate Tebow...the facts are the facts. His performance, although up and down, is not out of the ordinary for a player starting his 5th NFL game. I'm not sure if the "so-called" experts ever actually stop flapping their pink pony riders to consider the facts. The facts are, that Tim Tebow has performed at or above the level of many other QB's who are not getting blasted so openly across all media outlets. I've never seen such disdain for a young QB coming out of college since Ryan Leaf. This is crazy and sad. That so many people would turn on a kid after so few starts. Wow!

Take a look at these players stats below and explain to me how Tim Tebow has performed worse than any of the group??? And save the mechanics and footwork argument for someone who gives a rip. Those are items that can be improved over time natuarally!

One word: context. Stats without context are meaningless. 75% of his numbers are coming in garbage time, something folks had no problem pointing out about Orton. How do his numbers in the first through third quarters match up?

Gort
11-05-2011, 06:59 AM
No they didn't.

The OL (Franklin/Beadles) did the same thing they've been doing all year. The difference in this game was that Tebow hung onto the ball too long at times and got sacked for it.

And as far as pride/passion from the coaches goes? Yeah that's great and all when the team is winning. But that gets old real fast when things aren't so good and "we're just trying to win a m*******ing game."

the really sad thing is that this is the 6th consecutive year where this team has been in the "we're just trying to win a m*******ing game" category.

since the AFCCG at the end of the 2005 season, this franchise has been in a downward spiral. first, they descended to frustrating mediocrity where they couldn't win a single game to make the playoffs, then to mind-numbing incompetence when they couldn't win any 1 of the final 3 games to make the playoffs, then they follow up a 6-0 start by losing 8 of 10, and now they're at almost complete suckitude looking to be even worse than last year's 4-12 record. how much lower can they go?

Gort
11-05-2011, 07:02 AM
One word: context. Stats without context are meaningless. 75% of his numbers are coming in garbage time, something folks had no problem pointing out about Orton. How do his numbers in the first through third quarters match up?

how is that worse than our opponents stats which come against the Broncos? if "garbage time" stats don't count, then stats achieved against the hapless Broncos shouldn't count either. we should petition the league office to nullify Green Bay's and Aaron Rodger's stats against us.

Gort
11-05-2011, 07:04 AM
Tebow getting cut will be the greatest day in our franchise.

yours might be the dumbest statement ever posted here. congrats.

Hamrob
11-05-2011, 09:57 AM
Tebow getting cut will be the greatest day in our franchise.What an idiot. Yeah, cutting a 1st round draft pick will be the greatest day in our history? Are you really that ignorant?

How about we let a kid start more than 5 games....say 10 games and then make a decision as to whether he can play or not. A whopping 10 games...is that too much to ask??


He's started 5 games people and played pretty decent for a guy with so little experience. His passer rating in his five starts is slightly better than Orton's for the first 5 games of the season.

2011

Miami
Detroit

2010

Oakland
Houston
San Diego

Hamrob
11-05-2011, 10:04 AM
One word: context. Stats without context are meaningless. 75% of his numbers are coming in garbage time, something folks had no problem pointing out about Orton. How do his numbers in the first through third quarters match up?Your logic is vastly flawed. Considering that everyone of those other players also had garbage time stats. The bottom line is this:

Tim Tebow has performed just as well as many of the young QB's in the league right now and just as well as several HOF'ers during their first 5-10 games or more.

The fact that people want to flush Tebow at this stage, says a hell of a lot more about people who just don't want to see him suceed.

DrFate
11-05-2011, 01:31 PM
Tebow getting cut will be the greatest day in our franchise.

That would be January 25, 1998

The second greatest day was January 31, 1999

Honorable mention goes to Dec 6, 2010

^5

Shotgun Willie
11-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Your logic is vastly flawed. Considering that everyone of those other players also had garbage time stats.

Reading problem?

What part of comparing only the first three quarters for all of them, don't you get? That way, it eliminates the issue entirely. My logic, as always, is sound.

Broncojef
11-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Fox and Tebow just seem like a bad match. I'm for giving Tebow his shot at QB but I wish we had someone else on the sidelines. No matter who we get in the common denominator remains the same and if the staff is wrong we still have years of work in front of us.

SoCalBronco
11-05-2011, 02:47 PM
Way to support your starting QB, coach.

If you're frustrated, feel free to resign. You're being paid to coach guys up...including the QB. Start earning your pay.

broncolife
11-05-2011, 03:44 PM
What still gets me is that he threw, the last three Games last year, well, pretty darn well-what happened from then to now? Are we dealing with Phillip Rivers' younger brother here?

There wasn't a change of OC's-they've gone more to the Shotgun-what is different?

I think Studes was more supportive. You look at the tape and he was telling Tebow all we needed was him. I doubt you will see Tebow telling fox that nobody gets the ball here but him. Personally I think Mccoy stinks. Orton has looked worse under this years Coaching too. Both Orton and Lloyd didnt like the way the offense was being ran this year.

broncolife
11-05-2011, 03:46 PM
Damn the way people are acting they are going to cruicfy Tebow when he has a Multiple Int game.

vanbrugh
11-05-2011, 05:10 PM
It is what it is.....

This organisation has no faith in Tim now that he's served his purpose as a cash cow....
I Truly find it hard to reconcile how we differ so much offensively between last year and this. However i guess that when you trade a clutch receiver in the off season (for a scrub) and then give away your (the) best WR from last season (for a song), then pretty much your laying you own foundations for a struggle your own agenda/fate. People might have spun it that BL got outta dodge cos of the TT thing but it may as well have been the stench of death in this predictable (even i can see what coming) offense that made his mind up!?

We can all piss and moan about the long release and the lack of progressions from Tim but FFS He's got a rookie RT that cant pass block and has had no help. He's got Eddie Royal the invisible ball dropping man (send him deep once in a while)! and decker who's STILL learning...the same as Tim. Oh i forgot we got the cripple 1ST Round WR who quite possibly will never be what he was supposed to become just like our fabled 1st Round LT! With all these issues...wow what do you do - yes i got it make out it' tim's fault when it goes boobies up....way to go to destroy the young QB! head coach! Did i mention the two 2nd yr OL...THANK GOD FOR KUPES! I know i sound frustrated but so is Fox isn't he, that's the same fox that is 4 and what?

For an organisation i have loved for many years it stinks the way they have pretty much hung Tim out to dry. When i say that i mean i have never heard any kind of public support for Tim from the FO and that stinks. I know he's been crap but why oh why no kind of siege mentality, you gotta reinforce your teams confidence. Even the Denver media have been piling it on this week do they really want us/tim/fox/elway//broncos/bowlen to lose again.... to THEM!

You know an often heard quote is that a team takes on the personality of it's QB or it's Coach maybe that's the crossroads we're now meandering to,standing tall in the pocket of that confused and paranoid road stands the Duke......last man standing "the ONLY face of the franchise once again"!

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Ok I will bite how has Tebow been a cash cow for the team? Because he sold some jersey's? cmon, season tickets? hmmm i doubt it.

DBroncos4life
11-05-2011, 05:42 PM
Ok I will bite how has Tebow been a cash cow for the team? Because he sold some jersey's? cmon, season tickets? hmmm i doubt it.

Jersey sales are split between the teams but lets not let that little fact from getting in the way.

RaiderH8r
11-05-2011, 05:42 PM
Way to support your starting QB, coach.

If you're frustrated, feel free to resign. You're being paid to coach guys up...including the QB. Start earning your pay.

Simple and to the point. Precisely right.

vanbrugh
11-05-2011, 05:49 PM
If i really have to explain how much money Tim can generate then the rest of what was written was truly a waste of your bite cut!

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 10:09 PM
hey TDmvp. Why dont you shut the **** up and suck my big hairy cock?

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 10:12 PM
and guys, once tebow is cut after this season, we will get a real qb and things will be a lot better. Hopefully a guy that can actually throw the ball on target and not another Tebow. With Tim gone we will no longer be known as the Denver Tebows. Let Tebow be somebody elses experiment.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 10:14 PM
and guys, once tebow is cut after this season, we will get a real qb and things will be a lot better. Hopefully a guy that can actually throw the ball on target and not another Tebow. With Tim gone we will no longer be known as the Denver Tebows. Let Tebow be somebody elses experiment.


...uh huh. People have been saying this for 12 years now.


:Broncos:

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 10:21 PM
...uh huh. People have been saying this for 12 years now.


:Broncos:

Well the last 12 years we didnt have Elway in the office. Everybody knows he wants a real QB on the football team. He will make a difference in our decisions. I would be suprised if we dont draft QB in the first round this next draft.

Its going to be sad watching tebow get assassinated by the Raiders tomorrow. Atleast the tebownites will have their excuses ready. It is always funny reading the excuses for Tebows failure. Some of these Tebow fans have to be convinced that 9/11 was caused by the American government.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 10:23 PM
Well the last 12 years we didnt have John in the office. Everybody knows he wants a real QB on the football team. He will make a difference in our decisions. I would be suprised if we dont draft QB in the first round this next draft.

Its going to be sad watching tebow get assassinated by the Raiders tomorrow. Atleast the tebownites will have their excuses ready. It is always funny reading the excuses for Tebows failure. Some of these Tebow fans have to be convinced that 9/11 was caused by the American government.


You seem to be under the impression that Tebow alone is the problem with this team and not a general lack of talent on both sides of the football.

:Broncos:

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 10:25 PM
If i really have to explain how much money Tim can generate then the rest of what was written was truly a waste of your bite cut!

You were pointing out Broncos used Tebow to be a cash cow, and now may be done with him. I was asking, what extra money have Broncos made by drafting Tim Tebow? I can't think of any reason they made more then had they stuck with Cutler or just drafted some other QB. Tebow generates buzz, gets talked about, but im having a hard time realizing how that means more money for Pat Bowlen with the TV money and jersey sales all gets split.

Please explain it to us in detail how Tebow has been a cash cow for Pat Bowlen and the Denver Broncos football team.

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 10:26 PM
You seem to be under the impression that Tebow alone is the problem with this team and not a general lack of talent on both sides of the football.

:Broncos:

The fact his spiral and throws in general seems so wobbly doesn't concern you?

Archer81
11-05-2011, 10:29 PM
The fact his spiral and throws in general seems so wobbly doesn't concern you?


I'm under the impression that gets fixed IF he can fix his footwork. Its a problem, but having the 3rd worst scoring defense bothers me more. Allowing opposing QB's to have a 107 QB rating bugs me more. I expect Tebow to struggle. Thats a given with a raw guy going into his 6th start. The defense has lapses a team with vets should not have.

But the team was 4-12 last year. 2-5 this year. It is what it is.

:Broncos:

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 10:30 PM
You seem to be under the impression that Tebow alone is the problem with this team and not a general lack of talent on both sides of the football.

:Broncos:

He's not the only problem no doubt. We have many holes.

But Tebow is trying to play the position thats the most important on a football team and he cant do it.

I wouldnt be against Tebow so much if he showed some signs of hope in his last two games. But he has been so terrible its sad. Maybe he can learn to throw right handed this next offseason and try again next year.

Plus Tebow is not the brightest guy out there. We need a QB that has atleast above average intelligence. It's no wonder Tebow cant read a defense.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 10:33 PM
He's not the only problem no doubt. We have many holes.

But Tebow is trying to play the position thats the most important on a football team and he cant do it.

I wouldnt be against Tebow so much if he showed some signs of hope in his last two games. But he has been so terrible its sad. Maybe he can learn to throw right handed this next offseason and try again next year.

Plus Tebow is not the brightest guy out there. We need a QB that has atleast above average intelligence. It's no wonder Tebow cant read a defense.


? According to who? I agree that Tebow needs work, but I have not seen anything claiming his intelligence is the problem.

:Broncos:

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 10:38 PM
? According to who? I agree that Tebow needs work, but I have not seen anything claiming his intelligence is the problem.

:Broncos:

Ok thats more my opinion i guess. When I listen to Tebow speak, he seems like a dumbass.

Not like retard dumbass, but more like somebody that is very gullible and easy to fool.


Plus Tebow did do below average on the Wonderlic test. That could show that he's pretty slow and cant solve problems. Not that I think the wonderlic means everything, but im just putting it out there.

Archer81
11-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Ok thats more my opinion i guess. When I listen to Tebow speak, he seems like a dumbass.

Not like retard dumbass, but more like somebody that is very gullible and easy to fool.


Plus Tebow did do below average on the Wonderlic test. That could show that he's pretty slow and cant solve problems. Not that I think the wonderlic means everything, but im just putting it out there.


He's dyslexic. How well did you expect him to do on a test that's timed?

This season is a wash. I'd rather see what young talent we have then try and keep old players in just for the sake of keeping them in.


:Broncos:

LongDongJohnson
11-05-2011, 10:48 PM
He's dyslexic. How well did you expect him to do on a test that's timed?

This season is a wash. I'd rather see what young talent we have then try and keep old players in just for the sake of keeping them in.


:Broncos:

I didnt know about him being dyslexic. Can anybody name a sucessful QB in the NFL that was dyslexic? Im just curious. Not saying dyslexic qb's cant be good.

But if his dyslexia means he struggles in timed events, I wonder how he can do sitting in a NFL pocket where timing is very important.

I know dyslexia is a reading disorder. Maybe thats why Tebow cant read an NFL defense?

I agree with letting the young players play. We need to see what they have. We can easily evaluate the young guys on defense and special teams, but Tebow will make it hard to evaluate the young guys on offense. Especially the WRs and at times the Oline. No WR will have good numbers in a Tebow led offense.

Brady Quinn is still young. Maybe we should let him play.

Dedhed
11-05-2011, 10:50 PM
If this board doesn't prove that point, I don't know what does.

It also proves the opposite. If he succeeds, it will be because of everyone around him.

Like Florida, remember.

KO5K
11-05-2011, 11:01 PM
I know dyslexia is a reading disorder. Maybe thats why Tebow cant read an NFL defense?

Please, please don't be serious...

Dedhed
11-05-2011, 11:05 PM
hey TDmvp. Why dont you shut the **** up and suck my big hairy cock?

Your cock is hairy? That's unfortunate.

cutthemdown
11-05-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm under the impression that gets fixed IF he can fix his footwork. Its a problem, but having the 3rd worst scoring defense bothers me more. Allowing opposing QB's to have a 107 QB rating bugs me more. I expect Tebow to struggle. Thats a given with a raw guy going into his 6th start. The defense has lapses a team with vets should not have.

But the team was 4-12 last year. 2-5 this year. It is what it is.

:Broncos:

I agree the corners on Broncos outside of Bailey are really bad. It doesn't help that the middle linebacker is too short to be effective dropping back into zones. The rookie safetys have yet to really impress. I agree it is what it is, we are a very bad football club. If by end of this yr Tebows throws look like pro throws I will be all for giving him a shot to start next yr. I still think you draft a qb though because you need a plan B at this point.

RaiderH8r
11-05-2011, 11:51 PM
He's not the only problem no doubt. We have many holes.

But Tebow is trying to play the position thats the most important on a football team and he cant do it.

I wouldnt be against Tebow so much if he showed some signs of hope in his last two games. But he has been so terrible its sad. Maybe he can learn to throw right handed this next offseason and try again next year.

Plus Tebow is not the brightest guy out there. We need a QB that has atleast above average intelligence. It's no wonder Tebow cant read a defense.

Fox, McCoy, Gase, Nunnelly, et al have pretty important roles too and nobody on this team is getting any better. Doom hasn't had a sack in 22 months. Pretty solid. Moreno hasn't done dick, Dawkins routinely gets beat, our OL has no pass pro, our play calling enjoys calling long developing plays in the face of a blitz, our QB coach can't coach one of the most coach able guys around. Nunnelly's DL is a sieve, our OL plays with all the toughness of of an 8 yr old girl who just lost her Barbie. Our front office has about 10 yrs experience combined, our HC is the only clown to lose more games than McKid last year, our owner is going senile and I am pretty sure I have the flu. But I can see how Tebow is the wrench in our cog of sure fire success. We cut Tim and we're f'ing golden dude. FFS

RaiderH8r
11-05-2011, 11:57 PM
I didnt know about him being dyslexic. Can anybody name a sucessful QB in the NFL that was dyslexic? Im just curious. Not saying dyslexic qb's cant be good.

But if his dyslexia means he struggles in timed events, I wonder how he can do sitting in a NFL pocket where timing is very important.

I know dyslexia is a reading disorder. Maybe thats why Tebow cant read an NFL defense?

I agree with letting the young players play. We need to see what they have. We can easily evaluate the young guys on defense and special teams, but Tebow will make it hard to evaluate the young guys on offense. Especially the WRs and at times the Oline. No WR will have good numbers in a Tebow led offense.

Brady Quinn is still young. Maybe we should let him play.

Holy ****balls batman. I really hope this thesis is a joke because if you honestly believe this then I am at a loss to understand how you can even manage to convert oxygen to co2. If reading ability made two ****s of a difference in whether or not a guy can play football then those illiterate pricks at the U of Miami would have yet to win a single game.

BroncsCheer
11-05-2011, 11:57 PM
Anyone else holding breath for the jhns 'breakdown'?

bowtown
11-06-2011, 12:38 AM
Anyone else holding breath for the jhns 'breakdown'?

Can't wait.

Archer81
11-06-2011, 01:35 AM
I didnt know about him being dyslexic. Can anybody name a sucessful QB in the NFL that was dyslexic? Im just curious. Not saying dyslexic qb's cant be good.

But if his dyslexia means he struggles in timed events, I wonder how he can do sitting in a NFL pocket where timing is very important.

I know dyslexia is a reading disorder. Maybe thats why Tebow cant read an NFL defense?

I agree with letting the young players play. We need to see what they have. We can easily evaluate the young guys on defense and special teams, but Tebow will make it hard to evaluate the young guys on offense. Especially the WRs and at times the Oline. 2. No WR will have good numbers in a Tebow led offense.

1. Brady Quinn is still young. Maybe we should let him play.


1. Brady is a FA after this year. I do not see the point in starting a guy that more than likely will not be here next season.

2. I'd recommend you take a look at some of Elway's numbers in 1983. I wonder how Reeves and co were able to develop the offensive talent then when the QB at the time was "holding" everyone else back.

Keep in mind that is not a slap at Elway. But I find it hard to stomach some of these arguments about Tebow when we had a HOF QB stuggle ridiculously in his first 16 games as starter. We saw flashes of good (like a 345 yard day late in the year) and then instances of horrible (1-8 vs pittsburgh, a game with a 39 QB rating...). Is it not the point to let young QB's take their lumps and learn from it?

:Broncos:

extralife
11-06-2011, 01:01 AM
The NFL in 2011 is not the NFL in 83. Starting a rookie QB in 83 was borderline unheard of, and there was no real precedent of or expectation of success there. Today, starting your young QB is the norm, and you have Tebow's college backup setting rookie records.

And come on, not even macgruder would compare Tebow's skillset with Elway's. he may have looked awful in '83, but no one was wondering whether or not he could throw a football.

Eldorado
11-06-2011, 09:20 AM
Bump. Come on jhns. You don't get to talk that much **** and walk away. Thats MacGruder status.

BroncsCheer
11-06-2011, 10:41 AM
Crickets ....

HAT
11-06-2011, 12:34 PM
http://www.desent-audio.com/images/Breakdown%20VHS.jpg

Shotgun Willie
11-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Bump. Come on jhns. You don't get to talk that much **** and walk away. Thats MacGruder status.

Please, it's standard operating procedure with that guy. Whenever he gets into a debate with someone, it always goes down the same few ways. Either

a. Someone posts a video clip that directly contradicts a point he made. He says he can't see it on his phone and will reply later that night when he's at home on his pc. He conveniently never does.

or

b. In the middle of the debate, he says he doesn't have time or something to fully respond with his detailed analysis. He will reply later that night when he has time. He conveniently never does.

Shocker.

Agamemnon
11-06-2011, 04:23 PM
And I'm really frustrated with Fox. That's all I have to say...

Eldorado
11-06-2011, 08:09 PM
Bump. Come on jhns. You don't get to talk that much **** and walk away. Thats MacGruder status.

Epic opportunity wasted. Most likely because you are a pussy.