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View Full Version : Elway at Stanford practice today


montrose
11-02-2011, 08:47 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/02/elway-spotted-at-stanford-practice/10541/

Popps
11-02-2011, 08:49 PM
http://www.5minutesforspecialneeds.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/lombardi_trophy3.jpg

Mogulseeker
11-02-2011, 08:50 PM
Suck for Luck.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 09:03 PM
Luck will suck.

It will be absolutely hilarious when the Broncos get Luck and he ends up being a glorified Kyle Orton... then Tebow ends up somewhere else and wins championships.

RhymesayersDU
11-02-2011, 09:10 PM
Luck will suck.

It will be absolutely hilarious when the Broncos get Luck and he ends up being a glorified Kyle Orton... then Tebow ends up somewhere else and wins championships.

You're projecting.

McDman
11-02-2011, 09:11 PM
Luck will suck.

It will be absolutely hilarious when the Broncos get Luck and he ends up being a glorified Kyle Orton... then Tebow ends up somewhere else and wins championships.

Why will he suck?

Why would it be hilarious if he failed with the Broncos? You are a Bronco fan, are you not?

Mogulseeker
11-02-2011, 09:15 PM
Why will he suck?

Why would it be hilarious if he failed with the Broncos? You are a Bronco fan, are you not?

Nah, I'm thinking he's a Florida fan, which is, these days, a Broncos fan by default.

ChrisToker
11-02-2011, 09:17 PM
Wouldn't he be barred from college practices due to tampering concers??

Just Sucks that Luck is going to the Colts and they will be set at QB for 13 plus more years.

To the point that if we get rid of Tebow and he wins Championships, I only see that if he gets traded to the Pat's and Belecheat incorporates a redzone package with his limited (yet highly affective) skill set

TDmvp
11-02-2011, 09:17 PM
I just don't get all the Luck hype. He doesn't look any different from all the rest of the next big thing qb's , some who became ok QBs some who didn't.

The kid could go on to win 15 straight super bowls for all I know . But from just watching him play he doesn't look any different then 20 other college guys I've seen in the last 10 years who was suppose to be great.

I just don't see this once a generation thing everyone keeps talking about. Granted I've only watched him play 4 or 5 full games and then what you see on from highlights but I just don't see John Elway's gifts with Manning's brain and insane intangibles like the media is making him out to be.

Just looks like lots of other guys I've seen before. In ways I just think it's a product of the era and all the media and a million ways to hype something. If we get him I hope he does great , but I just don't see anything super human.

ChrisToker
11-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Do you watch his game? Luke has the talent factor of Elway and Football Knowledge of Marino/Manning. Hype would not be a good word to use on Luck. He is what he is, and thats why he will be #1 overall in draft

Popps
11-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Why will he suck?

Why would it be hilarious if he failed with the Broncos? You are a Bronco fan, are you not?

Can you people stop quoting that f###. It kills my ignore-buzz.

Honestly, he can't be real. It has to be a level.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Do not pass go.

Do not collect Andrew Luck.

McDman
11-02-2011, 09:28 PM
Can you people stop quoting that f###. It kills my ignore-buzz.

Honestly, he can't be real. It has to be a level.

Like I said in another post, I think he may be some sort of double blind social experiment to see how we react to mentally unstable crazies who post ramblings on the net.

Gaaaaah! WITCH HUNT!

RhymesayersDU
11-02-2011, 09:30 PM
In ways I just think it's a product of the era and all the media and a million ways to hype something. If we get him I hope he does great , but I just don't see anything super human.

While I get what you're saying here, the opposite is also true: our media can tear something down in a heartbeat. Nobody has anything bad to say about the guy, outside of Phil Simms.

TDmvp
11-02-2011, 09:31 PM
Do you watch his game? Luke has the talent factor of Elway and Football Knowledge of Moreno/Manning. Hype would not be a good word to use on Luck. He is what he is, and thats why he will be #1 overall in draft

If he has Knowshon Moreno type knowledge I say pass Hilarious!

Now if you ment Marino that's different :poke::poke::poke:


But there's been a ton of qb's hyped who was what they was and went #1 ... The media acts like this guy is godlike and I just don't see it.

Just looks like a solid/great college qb with a great skill set who has won a lot of game but is unproven.


Luck reminds me of Carson Palmer for some reason...

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 09:31 PM
Why will he suck?

Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?

Why would it be hilarious if he failed with the Broncos? You are a Bronco fan, are you not?

Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

Powderaddict
11-02-2011, 09:35 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

Can't win in college?

What's the Cardinal record right now?

TDmvp
11-02-2011, 09:36 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.



Hmmmm


You do know now many are going to hope we suck and need a new Qb so you leave and the national horror of Macgruder will end right ? :P

ZONA
11-02-2011, 09:43 PM
Luck or no Luck, you have to have a very solid all around team if you want to achieve great things. And you'll have to be great at least on 1 side of the ball. Right now the Broncos are nowhere close to be solid all around let alone great on 1 side of the ball.

NFLBRONCO
11-02-2011, 09:53 PM
Luck or no Luck, you have to have a very solid all around team if you want to achieve great things. And you'll have to be great at least on 1 side of the ball. Right now the Broncos are nowhere close to be solid all around let alone great on 1 side of the ball.

I think good or great QB could turn our awful O into a decent one overnight. Your right we have tons of holes to fill.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 09:54 PM
Hmmmm


You do know now many are going to hope we suck and need a new Qb so you leave and the national horror of Macgruder will end right ? :P

You will realize the error of your ways when you see how good Tebow is in an organization that knows how to use him...

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 09:55 PM
Can't win in college?

What's the Cardinal record right now?

How many championships does he have? Anyone can win in the Pac10...

hookemhess
11-02-2011, 09:57 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?

He's 28-6 with an Orange Bowl victory. And 5 of the losses came when he was a RS frosh. He's 20-1 this season and last. But don't let facts get in the way of your continuing to be the biggest ****ing idiot on this board.

vonqkilla
11-02-2011, 09:58 PM
Apparently microphones caught this conversation.

” You refuse to sign with whoever drafts you, we come in outbid everyone, and its on, whadya think”

” I want Tebow gone”

” Already working on it”

”Gonna need a new OC”

” haa, you got it”

” I need cars, lots of them”

” no problem”

” paige”

” I can make it happen”

” last thing, unretire 7 for me”

”you're outta your goddamn mind on that one kid”

TDmvp
11-02-2011, 09:59 PM
You will realize the error of your ways when you see how good Tebow is in an organization that knows how to use him...



You obviously have know idea what I've said about Tebow and just go right to some canned reply anytime someone talks to you... I mean my god look at my avatar.

Stupid has 3 stages I hear. :wave:

hookemhess
11-02-2011, 09:59 PM
Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

GOOD. GTFO ALREADY.

Boobs McGee
11-02-2011, 09:59 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

there's some inference here that doesn't add up...you'd have to be a fan, currently, in order to "not be" a fan, later.

You're projecting.

SoCalBronco
11-02-2011, 10:01 PM
How many championships does he have? Anyone can win in the Pac10...

College Championships are not necessarily indicia of great QB play. Not only did Elway never win a national title, he never won a Pac 10 title or even played in a bowl game. Manning never won a national title or even played in a national title game. He won only a single conference championship and was thrashed in his bowl game that year.

They can only control their own play. Jay Barker was the QB on the 1992 National Champions, but no one would say that he was even an average QB. He was absolute garbage.

ShutDownPoster
11-02-2011, 10:02 PM
Transparency at it's finest. The Duke AND Pizza Boy scouting talent - aren't those 2 the least experienced GM tandem on NFL staff right now? Elway is a homer so he can get away with an 'Alumni VIP tour' :-)

SonOfLe-loLang
11-02-2011, 10:02 PM
Watch Luck run through his progressions and then snap passes off. Its impressive. During the USC game, they actually slowed down a play where he escaped the pocket and had three receivers, all covered, in route. He quickly checked off two and waited until the third opened before throwing a dart to him. I really like Timmy, but I haven't seen him do anything like that.

ChrisToker
11-02-2011, 10:16 PM
You will realize the error of your ways when you see how good Tebow is in an organization that knows how to use him...

Jesus Mother****ing Christ

McDman
11-02-2011, 10:20 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

So you have no reason he will suck, just saying "why won't he suck"? You're idiocy never ends.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.


Keep in mind he runs a prototypical pro style offense, installed by Jim Harbaugh. The offense Luck ran and is running is very complex and he will be pro ready very quickly.

What has Andrew Luck done?

Last year he was ranked 3rd among all college QB's in passing behind Kellen Moore and Cam Newton (remember when I told you Newton could throw:D)

This year he is rated 5 overall, but has a higher rating this year…so he's gotten better.

Currently Stanford is ranked 4th in the BCS and is undefeated.

Last year Stanford went 12-1 finishing 4th in the nation in the BCS and won a BCS bowl game on the back of Luck's MVP performance.

Here is a list of what else he has done:

Awards and honors
2010 season
Heisman Trophy Runner Up
Maxwell Award Finalist
Walter Camp Award Finalist
Davey O'Brien Award Finalist
Manning Award Finalist
Second Team All America (AP, Walter Camp, SI.com, CBSSports.com)
Orange Bowl MVP
Pac-10 Offensive Player of the Year
First Team All Pac-10
Second Team Pac-10 All Academic Team
Pac-10 Offensive Player of the Week, Nov. 8, 2010 & Nov. 22, 2010
2009 season
Freshman All America (The Sporting News, CollegeFootballNews.com, Scout.com)
Honorable Mention All Pac-10
First Team Pac-10 All Academic Team
Records
Pac-12 single season records
Highest completion percentage (70.7%, 2010)
Pac-12 career records
Most career total offense per game (274.5 yards per game) (through 8 games of 2011 season)
Stanford single season records
2010 season:
Most touchdown passes, season (32)
Most total offense, season (3,791 yards)
Highest passing efficiency rating, season (170.2)
Highest completion percentage, season (70.7%)
Most yards per pass attempt, season (9.0)
Most rushing yards by a quarterback, season (453 yards)
Stanford career records (through 8 games of 2011 season)
Highest passing efficiency rating, career (163.5)
Highest completion percentage, career (66.4%)
Most yards per pass attempt, career (9.0 yards/attempt)
Lowest interception percentage, career (1.8%)
Most rushing yards by a quarterback, career (926 yards)
Most wins by a starting quarterback, career (28)
Highest winning percentage by a starting quarterback, career (.848)

robbieopperude
11-02-2011, 10:31 PM
We aren't getting Luck. I wish we were but he is going to Indi or Miami. I just don't see either one of those teams trading him. Tebow has looked bad but he will likely win at least 1 or 2 more games this season. 3 or 4 wins will put us in the running for Barkley assuming Indi won't take him. My guess is we end up with the number 3 overall pick with Luck going 1 to Indi and Barkley going 2 to Miami. I hope we take whoever the BPA is at pick 3 and try to convince Manning to come play for us in 2 years. At this point I have come to the conclusion we have a better shot getting a Manning and Tony Dungy package in two years than Luck.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 10:35 PM
We aren't getting Luck. I wish we were but he is going to Indi or Miami. I just don't see either one of those teams trading him. Tebow has looked bad but he will likely win at least 1 or 2 more games this season. 3 or 4 wins will put us in the running for Barkley assuming Indi won't take him. My guess is we end up with the number 3 overall pick with Luck going 1 to Indi and Barkley going 2 to Miami. I hope we take whoever the BPA is at pick 3 and try to convince Manning to come play for us in 2 years. At this point I have come to the conclusion we have a better shot getting a Manning and Tony Dungy package in two years than Luck.

I agree….I don't see Denver sucking as bad as Indy or Miami…


Miami will certainly draft Luck. Indy…they would too. It's clear they need a post Manning plan.


Denver needs a boat load of help…QB to RB to WR to TE to OL to DL to LB to secondary….it's scary how bad this team is.

Fedaykin
11-02-2011, 10:35 PM
Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.


Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

McDman
11-02-2011, 10:35 PM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

He can't win in college? What is his record this year? How about last year?

Let's go through some current NFL QBs that "haven't won anything", I guess you mean national championships.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Mike Vick
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

Now let's look at some "winners" in football, people who won the championship.

Cam Newton
Greg McElroy
Tim Tebow
JaMarcus Russel
Chris Leak
Vince Young

You're theory is so sound! All of those "winners" in college have been AMAZING pros!

Turd_Ferguson
11-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

Pathetic Blind Ignorance. You are worse than a Raiders Chiefs or Chargers fan. Until meeting this ignorant horse's a**, I wanted Tebow to have success, now I simply wait for the day when Tebow calls a press conference and admits to the world... Hey I'm just not that good.

Mr. Macgruder, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 10:39 PM
College Championships are not necessarily indicia of great QB play. Not only did Elway never win a national title, he never won a Pac 10 title or even played in a bowl game. Manning never won a national title or even played in a national title game. He won only a single conference championship and was thrashed in his bowl game that year.

Elway played in a different era where they had less parity. Peyton played in the SEC when they also had less parity. They get passes. Luck has no pass..

They can only control their own play. Jay Barker was the QB on the 1992 National Champions, but no one would say that he was even an average QB. He was absolute garbage.

So what should we use to evaluate Luck then?

He doesn't play good D.. he isn't on a team good enough to compete for a championship.. so what should we use? You tell me..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Pathetic Blind Ignorance. You are worse than a Raiders Chiefs or Chargers fan. Until meeting this ignorant horse's a**, I wanted Tebow to have success, now I simply wait for the day when Tebow calls a press conference and admits to the world... Hey I'm just not that good.

Mr. Macgruder, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Way to make an argument..

You really are projecting...

Reverse psychology only works with children. You've proven that here..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 10:43 PM
He can't win in college? What is his record this year? How about last year?

Let's go through some current NFL QBs that "haven't won anything", I guess you mean national championships.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Mike Vick
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan

Now let's look at some "winners" in football, people who won the championship.

Cam Newton
Greg McElroy
Tim Tebow
JaMarcus Russel
Chris Leak
Vince Young

You're theory is so sound! All of those "winners" in college have been AMAZING pros!

So tell me then. what should we use as criteria?

Should guys who are considered 6th round picks be number one like Tom Brady? That isn't working so hot with Sam Bradford right now.. I think he got outplayed by a 6th rounder last week though..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 10:46 PM
Keep in mind he runs a prototypical pro style offense, installed by Jim Harbaugh. The offense Luck ran and is running is very complex and he will be pro ready very quickly.

What has Andrew Luck done?

Last year he was ranked 3rd among all college QB's in passing behind Kellen Moore and Cam Newton (remember when I told you Newton could throw:D)

This year he is rated 5 overall, but has a higher rating this year…so he's gotten better.

Currently Stanford is ranked 4th in the BCS and is undefeated.

Last year Stanford went 12-1 finishing 4th in the nation in the BCS and won a BCS bowl game on the back of Luck's MVP performance.

Here is a list of what else he has done:



Tebow has far more awards than that.. and he got them in the SEC.. people say they don't mean anything in the NFL.. why is that different with Luck? simply because he has more experience in a pro style offense? Lots of guys do.. so what sets him apart from them? Matt leinart did all that as well.. AND won championships.. he stunk..

McDman
11-02-2011, 10:46 PM
So tell me then. what should we use as criteria?

Should guys who are considered 6th round picks be number one like Tom Brady? That isn't working so hot with Sam Bradford right now.. I think he got outplayed by a 6th rounder last week though..

Hmmm, maybe how they play, how they throw the ball, read defenses. Pretty much all the things Luck does well. All you did was say he isn't going to be good because his competition is so bad.

You are a joke. Keep living in your own little delusional, pea brained world. I really wonder what happened to you to make you want to suck off Tebow so much. Just do him a favor and refrain from reading "The Catcher in the Rye", we don't need him assassinated.

Turd_Ferguson
11-02-2011, 10:47 PM
Way to make an argument..

You really are projecting...

Reverse psychology only works with children. You've proven that here..

I thought you left already. You said when the Broncos were in need of a Quarterback like Luck you would leave. Well..... Bye

SonOfLe-loLang
11-02-2011, 10:50 PM
Elway played in a different era where they had less parity. Peyton played in the SEC when they also had less parity. They get passes. Luck has no pass..



So what should we use to evaluate Luck then?

He doesn't play good D.. he isn't on a team good enough to compete for a championship.. so what should we use? You tell me..

He doesn't need a pass. He's won.

yerner
11-02-2011, 10:57 PM
Maybe Luck will make a power play and get to the Broncos.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 11:05 PM
So tell me then. what should we use as criteria?

Should guys who are considered 6th round picks be number one like Tom Brady? That isn't working so hot with Sam Bradford right now.. I think he got outplayed by a 6th rounder last week though..

Ummm….Bradford didn't play last week.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 11:10 PM
Tebow has far more awards than that.. and he got them in the SEC.. people say they don't mean anything in the NFL.. why is that different with Luck? simply because he has more experience in a pro style offense? Lots of guys do.. so what sets him apart from them? Matt leinart did all that as well.. AND won championships.. he stunk..


Just pointing out what Luck has accomplished….which is a lot for a Stanford QB surrounded with limited talent.

…and as soon as I prove you wrong and prove he has done a lot in college…

You then say it's completely meaningless because he didn't do it in the SEC.

Can you tell me what current SEC QB's are currently lighting it up in the NFL?

I can give you a list of non SEC QB's that are performing at the NFL even though they didn't play in the big bad SEC.

1. Drew Brees
2. Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Philip Rivers
5. Tony Romo
6. Ben Rothlisburgher
7. Matt Schaub
8. Michael Vick
9. Ryan Fitzpatrick
10. Matt Ryan

Mile High Mojoe
11-02-2011, 11:11 PM
Big deal, I guess the group of Broncos Fans who are drooling for Luck would read a lot into it, I wouldn't.

Projecting, dreaming, hoping and praying none of it will help because the Broncos won't have any shot of getting him anyway.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 11:12 PM
Elway played in a different era where they had less parity. Peyton played in the SEC when they also had less parity. They get passes. Luck has no pass..



So what should we use to evaluate Luck then?

He doesn't play good D.. he isn't on a team good enough to compete for a championship.. so what should we use? You tell me..

Sooo….Elway and Manning played in conferences with less parity and they get passes?

Luck plays in a conference that you say has less parity and therefor can't complete in the NFL?

Play2win
11-02-2011, 11:20 PM
how many mother ****ing times is the word "projecting" going to be used in one internet forum board. JMFC. ProjectingNextDeflecting...

sounds like a drinking game...

carry on...

BroncoMan4ever
11-02-2011, 11:21 PM
Can't win in college?

What's the Cardinal record right now?

dude they are like 8-0 right now. ranked in the top 5 currently. and Luck is the main reason for that

Miss I.
11-02-2011, 11:24 PM
how many mother ****ing times is the word "projecting" going to be used in one internet forum board. JMFC. ProjectingNextDeflecting...

sounds like a drinking game...

carry on...

dude, don't forget witch hunt, that gets used a lot too. I do like the idea of a drinking game. ;D

Play2win
11-02-2011, 11:33 PM
dude, don't forget witch hunt, that gets used a lot too. I do like the idea of a drinking game. ;D

Yeah drinking game = twist my arm ;D

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 11:48 PM
dude they are like 8-0 right now. ranked in the top 5 currently. and Luck is the main reason for that

So when Luck wins it's him but when other guys win it's their teams? lol

Ironic since Harbaugh even made the 9ers win..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 11:50 PM
Sooo….Elway and Manning played in conferences with less parity and they get passes?

Luck plays in a conference that you say has less parity and therefor can't complete in the NFL?

The Mannings played in the SEC where they faced real D.. Luck does not..

Luck has to run against those terrible Ds.. that's sad... he doesn't even run that well. If he could he would be putting up record breaking numbers running and then people would say he can't pass like Tebow..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 11:57 PM
Just pointing out what Luck has accomplished….which is a lot for a Stanford QB surrounded with limited talent.

…and as soon as I prove you wrong and prove he has done a lot in college…

You then say it's completely meaningless because he didn't do it in the SEC.

Can you tell me what current SEC QB's are currently lighting it up in the NFL?

I can give you a list of non SEC QB's that are performing at the NFL even though they didn't play in the big bad SEC.

1. Drew Brees
2. Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Philip Rivers
5. Tony Romo
6. Ben Rothlisburgher
7. Matt Schaub
8. Michael Vick
9. Ryan Fitzpatrick
10. Matt Ryan

I bet you SEC QBs are much more successful than your average NON SEC college QB..

I bet you the percentage of SEC QBs that are playing in the NFL is many many times greater than NON SEC college QBs.

There is just a much much greater volume of Non SEC QBs so they are more likely to succeed. Plus SEC QBs are massively underrated by playing such great D.. where as non-SEC Qbs are overrated. So SEC players are kept from going into the NFL.. That is why it is likely Luck is overrated.

McDman
11-02-2011, 11:58 PM
The Mannings played in the SEC where they faced real D.. Luck does not..

Luck has to run against those terrible Ds.. that's sad... he doesn't even run that well. If he could he would be putting up record breaking numbers running and then people would say he can't pass like Tebow..

Dear God, I hope he doesn't pass like Tebow.

KevinJames
11-03-2011, 12:10 AM
Watch Luck run through his progressions and then snap passes off. Its impressive. During the USC game, they actually slowed down a play where he escaped the pocket and had three receivers, all covered, in route. He quickly checked off two and waited until the third opened before throwing a dart to him. I really like Timmy, but I haven't seen him do anything like that.

Yeah it really is a thing beauty to watch.

Hes so NFL ready its not even funny.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 12:16 AM
Dear God, I hope he doesn't pass like Tebow.

He's probably pass like Orton.. who Tebow has outplayed.. lol

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 12:20 AM
Watch Luck run through his progressions and then snap passes off. Its impressive. During the USC game, they actually slowed down a play where he escaped the pocket and had three receivers, all covered, in route. He quickly checked off two and waited until the third opened before throwing a dart to him. I really like Timmy, but I haven't seen him do anything like that.

He wouldn't have been able to escape the pocket in the SEC or the NFL.

USC is even a shell of what they were and their D stunk before.

Stanford has probably benefited greatly form USCs problems which is also why Luck's accomplishments should be even more suspect.

BabyTO
11-03-2011, 12:24 AM
like this toolbag knows **** about evaluating players. hell probably mistake their kicker for a QB and give him a 1st round grade

24champ
11-03-2011, 12:26 AM
Sell the farm for Luck, John!

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 12:29 AM
The Mannings played in the SEC where they faced real D.. Luck does not..

Luck has to run against those terrible Ds.. that's sad... he doesn't even run that well. If he could he would be putting up record breaking numbers running and then people would say he can't pass like Tebow..

What makes an SEC defense better than a Pac Ten or Big Ten defense?


Luck is a fine athlete, but you are right….he isn't the runner that Tebow is. But then again…neither is Tom Brady and that seemed to work out okay…didn't it?

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 12:30 AM
I bet you SEC QBs are much more successful than your average NON SEC college QB..

I bet you the percentage of SEC QBs that are playing in the NFL is many many times greater than NON SEC college QBs.

There is just a much much greater volume of Non SEC QBs so they are more likely to succeed. Plus SEC QBs are massively underrated by playing such great D.. where as non-SEC Qbs are overrated. So SEC players are kept from going into the NFL.. That is why it is likely Luck is overrated.

Please list the SEC QB's that are ripping up the NFL right now.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 12:33 AM
Please list the SEC QB's that are ripping up the NFL right now.

But see.. you claimed Tebow was just lucky to be playing well in college because his team was so talented..

Why doesn't that also apply in the NFL with QBs "ripping it up" there?

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 12:41 AM
What makes an SEC defense better than a Pac Ten or Big Ten defense?


Luck is a fine athlete, but you are right….he isn't the runner that Tebow is. But then again…neither is Tom Brady and that seemed to work out okay…didn't it?

But Luck DOES have to run in the PAC10 against those weak Ds.. that should be a huge knock on him. he won't be able to run in the NFL like that. that will hurt his passing game.

An SEC D is better than a PAC10 D or any other conference because the SEC has a much much higher level of talent all throughout the SEC. They have parity team to team.

In other conferences you have a couple teams that suck up most the talent.

This is why colt and Sam Bradford looked so great in the BIG12, This is why USC is so great in the PAC10. This is why Terelle Pryor looked so great. But look what happened when Ohio faced Florida in the championship game.. they were crushed. You see the same thing happening with all the SEC;s bowl games. They dominate their opponents.

The SEC is an entire conference like USC. is to the PAC10.. all the schools there get more talent from around the country and have more money within their conference to coach, develop and train these players. They have more NFL caliber players which is why it is so tough facing those defenses through a whole season.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 12:47 AM
But see.. you claimed Tebow was just lucky to be playing well in college because his team was so talented..

Why doesn't that also apply in the NFL with QBs "ripping it up" there?

I have never said Tebow was "lucky" to by playing well in college because his team was talented…

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 12:48 AM
But see.. you claimed Tebow was just lucky to be playing well in college because his team was so talented..

Why doesn't that also apply in the NFL with QBs "ripping it up" there?

…and I'm still waiting for your list of SEC QB's that are dominating the NFL.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 12:53 AM
But Luck DOES have to run in the PAC10 against those weak Ds.. that should be a huge knock on him. he won't be able to run in the NFL like that. that will hurt his passing game.

An SEC D is better than a PAC10 D or any other conference because the SEC has a much much higher level of talent all throughout the SEC. They have parity team to team.

In other conferences you have a couple teams that suck up most the talent.

This is why colt and Sam Bradford looked so great in the BIG12, This is why USC is so great in the PAC10. This is why Terelle Pryor looked so great. But look what happened when Ohio faced Florida in the championship game.. they were crushed. You see the same thing happening with all the SEC;s bowl games. They dominate their opponents.

The SEC is an entire conference like USC. is to the PAC10.. all the schools there get more talent from around the country and have more money within their conference to coach, develop and train these players. They have more NFL caliber players which is why it is so tough facing those defenses through a whole season.

Did you see what Pryor did to the second best SEC team in last years Sugar Bowl? He made them look silly.

Little know fact….the SEC is just about even with the Big Ten when it comes to bowl games…they have pretty much split right down the middle.

"Looks like we've been drinking a little too much of that SEC Kool-Aid when it comes to comparisons with the Big Ten.

Since 2003, the Big Ten is actually a highly competitive 9-9 in bowl games against college football's supposedly top conference. The Big Ten will have four chances to improve on its post season record against the SEC next month when Penn State plays Florida in the Outback Bowl, Mississippi State plays Michigan in the Gator, Michigan State plays Alabama in the Capital One and Ohio State plays Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl."


Oops...

BroncoMan4ever
11-03-2011, 01:11 AM
So when Luck wins it's him but when other guys win it's their teams? lol

Ironic since Harbaugh even made the 9ers win..

Funny that nobody brings that up in the debates about Tebow. he was on an incredibly stacked with talent Florida team, but few bring up that's why he wins, it always comes down to his moxie and intangibles.

take a look at Luck. the guy is calling the plays on the field, he studies the game and his opponents like Manning, he is an awesome pocket passer and also has the ability to run and make plays. he is the most complete QB coming out of college since Manning. the only real knock on the guy is that he doesn't have a rifle for an arm, but he can still make every throw.

Luck is a big reason that Stanford is kicking ass right now. not to say he could do it without help from 10 other guys, but there is a reason why he is the talk of both the NFL and college football.

BroncoMan4ever
11-03-2011, 01:18 AM
on a side note, this may have been covered and i didn't notice, but wouldn't Elway being at practice be seen as a violation in college football?

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:22 AM
This is something people never think about.. SEC teams have to go through the SEC all year.. to dominate other teams after going through those together schedules is like winning a boxing match having run a marathon the day before and your opponent hasn't.

And even having done that SEC teams still dramatically dominate their bowl games and championships.

Terrelle Pryor likely never would have made it through the SEC a full season... that is why Tebow is so great and why he can do in the NFL what other running QBs can't.

TP did it one game.. after a month off.. If Tebow only played a couple decent teams his college career like Lucka nd TP did I would doubt him too..

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:26 AM
This is something people never think about.. SEC teams have to go through the SEC all year.. to dominate other teams after going through those together schedules is like winning a boxing match having run a marathon the day before and your opponent hasn't.

And even having done that SEC teams still dramatically dominate their bowl games and championships.

Terrelle Pryor likely never would have made it through the SEC a full season... that is why Tebow is so great and why he can do in the NFL what other running QBs can't.

TP did it one game.. after a month off.. If Tebow only played a couple decent teams his college career like Lucka nd TP did I would doubt him too..

If the SEC is so dominating, why does it have a 9 and 9 win/loss record against the Big Ten in bowl games?

The SEC is top heavy, meaning they always seem to have 1-2 dominant teams and the rest, well….they seem to get credit for being dominant because of the 1-2 actual dominant teams at the front of the pack.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:27 AM
Funny that nobody brings that up in the debates about Tebow. he was on an incredibly stacked with talent Florida team, but few bring up that's why he wins, it always comes down to his moxie and intangibles.

That was all they said through college.. then Florida stunk without him. They said Cam was incredible because Auburn had no talent and Auburn just beat Florida and Tebow never beat Auburn when he was there. It's because they have a power run offense which is ideal for the SEC. Tebow carried a finesse offense himself. Something cam couldn't have done.

take a look at Luck. the guy is calling the plays on the field, he studies the game and his opponents like Manning, he is an awesome pocket passer and also has the ability to run and make plays. he is the most complete QB coming out of college since Manning. the only real knock on the guy is that he doesn't have a rifle for an arm, but he can still make every throw.

Luck is a big reason that Stanford is kicking ass right now. not to say he could do it without help from 10 other guys, but there is a reason why he is the talk of both the NFL and college football.

All the QBs in the PAC10 look like gods.. and all the QBs in the SEC look like crap.. do the math..

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:29 AM
That was all they said through college.. then Florida stunk without him. They said Cam was incredible because Auburn had no talent and Auburn just beat Florida and Tebow never beat Auburn when he was there. It's because they have a power run offense which is ideal for the SEC. Tebow carried a finesse offense himself. Something cam couldn't have done.



All the QBs in the PAC10 look like gods.. and all the QBs in the SEC look like crap.. do the math..

Auburn does not have a power run offense.


They literally run the exact same offense Tebow and Meyer ran at Florida.


Cam and Tebow ran the SAME OFFENSE….

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:30 AM
If the SEC is so dominating, why does it have a 9 and 9 win/loss record against the Big Ten in bowl games?

I just explained that.. TP wouldn't even be healthy playing his style if he went through the SEC.. He wouldn't even be playing QB most likely like cam Newton at UF!

The conferences outside have a relative advantage because the SEc teams have to go through the SEC all season.. when the SEC teams STILL dominate after doing this it is even more incredible.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:33 AM
I just explained that.. TP wouldn't even be healthy playing his style if he went through the SEC.. He wouldn't even be playing QB most likely like cam Newton at UF!

The conferences outside have a relative advantage because the SEc teams have to go through the SEC all season.. when the SEC teams STILL dominate after doing this it is even more incredible.

Why wouldn't TP be healthy?


He's 6'6 245….bigger than Tebow….and WAY faster.


The SEC is overrated. That is a fact. Top to bottom, they are no tougher than any major conference.


God, I wish there were playoffs in college football...

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:35 AM
Auburn does not have a power run offense.


They literally run the exact same offense Tebow and Meyer ran at Florida.


Cam and Tebow ran the SAME OFFENSE….

Auburn had a power run game before the spread was installed.. you can still see that influence i their style of play. They play power SEC football. Florida is a finesse high scoring offense. Tebow himself provided the power in that finesse offense.. which is why without him they struggled. But he couldn't have done that if he couldn't pass so well.

How else do you explain Auburn beating Florida so much?

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:37 AM
Why wouldn't TP be healthy?


He's 6'6 245….bigger than Tebow….and WAY faster.


The SEC is overrated. That is a fact. Top to bottom, they are no tougher than any major conference.


God, I wish there were playoffs in college football...

6'6 and 245 in college? Youa re delusional man.. lol

He couldn't even stay healthy in his soft conference. He couldn't even dominate there.

How on Earth can you claim Tebow was carried because of a talented team and TP wasn't? lol

that is absurd..

Height as a runner is not a good thing either.. it's a liability..

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:41 AM
Auburn had a power run game before the spread was installed.. you can still see that influence i their style of play. They play power SEC football. Florida is a finesse high scoring offense. Tebow himself provided the power in that finesse offense.. which is why without him they struggled. But he couldn't have done that if he couldn't pass so well.

How else do you explain Auburn beating Florida so much?

Auburn beat Florida in Tebow's freshman and sophomore year. They didn't play his junior and senior year.

Hell, the year Tebow won the Heisman (sophomore year) Florida lost 4 times.

2006, 2007 Auburn ran for 130 and 99 yards respectively…hardly "power running."

They won playing outstanding defense and not turning the ball over. Football 101.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:47 AM
6'6 and 245 in college? Youa re delusional man.. lol

He couldn't even stay healthy in his soft conference. He couldn't even dominate there.

How on Earth can you claim Tebow was carried because of a talented team and TP wasn't? lol

that is absurd..

Height as a runner is not a good thing either.. it's a liability..

He was that size in high school…okay….these are facts. He was that big…you can look it up….I'm not sure why you are fighting this.

Pryor did stay healthy in his own conference. He never missed a start due to health issues and only missed a few snaps here and there due to injuries.

Pryor absolutely dominated the Big Ten…but he did so running a basic pro style offense. If he had been in UM's spread offense or Oregon's spread, he would have put up massive numbers. His last year in college his offense averaged 38.8 points per game…3 points shy of Newtons offense.

Cam Newton is as tall as Pryor and ran for 1500 yards….some liability…hahaha.

I've never once said Tebow was carried by the talent of his team. Supported by it? Yes….but carried by it? No.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:48 AM
Auburn beat Florida in Tebow's freshman and sophomore year. They didn't play his junior and senior year.

Hell, the year Tebow won the Heisman (sophomore year) Florida lost 4 times.

2006, 2007 Auburn ran for 130 and 99 yards respectively…hardly "power running."

They won playing outstanding defense and not turning the ball over. Football 101.

So how did they run so well and play such good defense if Florida was so talnted and Harvin was so "unstoppabe"? lol

The only team Florida lost to their championship year was Auburn.. that was with Leak AND Tebow..

And Auburn played Bama better without Cam than Florida did WITH Tebow.. in his last year.

that shows you how stacked that Auburn tema was before Cam went there. That was without Dyer as well.

Cam would have gotten KILLED tyring to fill Tebow's role as a runner at Florida.. and couldn't fill the passing on that team either without there being a strong run game..

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 01:55 AM
He was that size in high school…okay….these are facts. He was that big…you can look it up….I'm not sure why you are fighting this.

Tebow was 240 and 3 inches shorter.. do you realize how heavy TP or Cma would have to be to be as durable as Tebow was? Mallet weighs 240 but he's 8 feet tall so what good does that do him?

Pryor did stay healthy in his own conference. He never missed a start due to health issues and only missed a few snaps here and there due to injuries.

Every time I watched him play he was limping around because of some injury.. lol No way he makes it through a season in the SEC let alone the NFL.

Pryor absolutely dominated the Big Ten…but he did so running a basic pro style offense. If he had been in UM's spread offense or Oregon's spread, he would have put up massive numbers. His last year in college his offense averaged 38.8 points per game…3 points shy of Newtons offense.

NOW you are defending TP with an excuse you claim isn't valid for Tebow now.. LOL

Cam Newton is as tall as Pryor and ran for 1500 yards….some liability…hahaha.

Cam Newton had unbelievable runners around him and a dominant Oline.. that's my point... Sure TP might do as well as Cam.. but who wouldn't? Any running QB would have looked great in that offense.. with no passing ability.

I've never once said Tebow was carried by the talent of his team. Supported by it? Yes….but carried by it? No.

You implied he was overrated by it... that is a huge myth..

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:56 AM
So how did they run so well and play such good defense if Florida was so talnted and Harvin was so "unstoppabe"? lol

The only team Florida lost to their championship year was Auburn.. that was with Leak AND Tebow..

And Auburn played Bama better without Cam than Florida did WITH Tebow.. in his last year.

that shows you how stacked that Auburn tema was before Cam went there. That was without Dyer as well.

Cam would have gotten KILLED tyring to fill Tebow's role as a runner at Florida.. and couldn't fill the passing on that team either without there being a strong run game..

How can Auburn be stacked if they go 8-5 and nearly lose to Northwestern in a bowl game?

How would Cam have gotten killed as a runner in Florida? You keep saying the SEC has from top to bottom the best defense in the country, yet you continue saying Newton would have gotten murdered at Florida. You do realize that Auburn and Florida are in the same conference, right?

And in the SEC Newton ran for more yards than Tebow did and had a higher passer rating than Tebow did….same exact conference.

elsid13
11-03-2011, 01:56 AM
on a side note, this may have been covered and i didn't notice, but wouldn't Elway being at practice be seen as a violation in college football?

If Elway was an agent or representing agency there would be a problem, but the NFL guys -scouts, GMs, alumni, players get a pass as long as the coaching staff allows it.

Ohio State used to allow all the scouts to every practice and into the locker room to talk to players.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 02:02 AM
Ryan Mallet is 8 feet tall…really?

I watched literally every game Pryor every played multiple times….I've seen him limp twice.

"NOW you are defending TP with an excuse you claim isn't valid for Tebow now.."

Explain the above statement.

You said being tall would be a liability for a running QB. I tell you that Newton is as tall as Pryor and you tell me it's because he has a good offensive line? LOL. You do realize that Tebow's line was just as good, if not better than Newton's…right?

Tebow was not overrated in college. He is overrated in the NFL...

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 02:36 AM
How can Auburn be stacked if they go 8-5 and nearly lose to Northwestern in a bowl game?

You claim Florida is stacked yet they have had the same kinds of seasons recently..

How would Cam have gotten killed as a runner in Florida? You keep saying the SEC has from top to bottom the best defense in the country, yet you continue saying Newton would have gotten murdered at Florida. You do realize that Auburn and Florida are in the same conference, right?

Because Florida doesn't have the power runners Auburn has. Rainey and Demps were cast off from other schools.. why do you think that is? Cam had Dyer and Mccalebb. Both of these guys were more physical runners.

Cam would get his running opportunities from Dyer running between the tackles. Tebow running between the tackles is what made Rainey and Demps look so good.. Harvin too.If cam tried to fill the role Tebow did of between the tackles runner without anyone taking pressure off him he'd have gotten killed. Dyer in the run game also opened Cam's passing game. Tebow's passing opened his running and his running took pressure off his passing.

And in the SEC Newton ran for more yards than Tebow did and had a higher passer rating than Tebow did….same exact conference.

You are confusing quantity with quality..

That is like saying that if Shaq is triple teamed and his three point shooters score all the points that the three point shooters are more valuable than Shaq..

Believe it or not.. but Cam Newton was the weak link last year.. that is why teams dared him to beta them. If he wasn't then they would have shut cam down and dared everyone else to bat them. That's what teams did to Tebow after his first year because they realized how weak his supporting cast was.

Oh.. and if Tebow's oline was so great then how do you explain Qbs getting crushed at Florida without Tebow..

Auburn had a legendary oline that year.. all seniors.. cam must have made a deal with the devil because his oline at Carolina is kicking butt too..

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 02:57 AM
Suck for Luck.

Too late ... 2 wins are at least one too many.

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 03:01 AM
And in the SEC Newton ran for more yards than Tebow did and had a higher passer rating than Tebow did….same exact conference.

And Matthew Stafford had a higher passer rating than Tebow. Then and now.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 03:06 AM
Urban Meyer no longer coaches the Gators…perhaps that is why they are struggling. No…that IS why they are struggling.

But…Newton was STILL running the ball regardless of who else was running the ball on his team. HE LEAD HIS TEAM IN RUSHING. Newton WAS the primary rusher.

You are missing the point. Tebow and Newton ran THE EXACT SAME OFFENSE. THEY PLAYED THE EXACT SAME POSITION.

Honest to God…please go read about the spread option offense. PLEASE.

Did you REALLY just say that Cam Newton was the weak link on the Auburn Tigers? The guy that accounted for 51 TD's and well over 4300 yards? The guy that was the MVP of the title game?

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 03:07 AM
And Matthew Stafford had a higher passer rating than Tebow. Then and now.

What is your point?

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 03:26 AM
What is your point?

Tebow won Heisman and National Championships, Stafford did not. Though I guess Cam did ... okay, that was an awkward point. But stats aren't everything. Just ask Dan Marino and John Elway.


Good point about Urban Meyer ... guys like Meyer, how tf do they do it?

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 03:29 AM
Believe it or not.. but Cam Newton was the weak link last year.

Huh? .... that a typo?

Rabb
11-03-2011, 05:07 AM
Huh? .... that a typo?

no, it's MacGruder

http://midwestdemocracyproject.org/media/img/blogs/field-of-dreams-20090526013259824-000_jpg_330x330_q85.jpg

TonyR
11-03-2011, 05:51 AM
Too late ... 2 wins are at least one too many.

As happy as I was about that comeback miracle against Miami, that was probably the costliest victory in Denver Broncos history. As ridic and pathetic as it sounds to say it, we could have gone 1-15 and had a real shot at a franchise QB. Now we can only have that shot by giving away the farm.

strafen
11-03-2011, 06:10 AM
on a side note, this may have been covered and i didn't notice, but wouldn't Elway being at practice be seen as a violation in college football?He's not allowed to have contact with the players.

montrose
11-03-2011, 06:18 AM
I just don't get all the Luck hype. He doesn't look any different from all the rest of the next big thing qb's , some who became ok QBs some who didn't.

The kid could go on to win 15 straight super bowls for all I know . But from just watching him play he doesn't look any different then 20 other college guys I've seen in the last 10 years who was suppose to be great.

I just don't see this once a generation thing everyone keeps talking about. Granted I've only watched him play 4 or 5 full games and then what you see on from highlights but I just don't see John Elway's gifts with Manning's brain and insane intangibles like the media is making him out to be.

Just looks like lots of other guys I've seen before. In ways I just think it's a product of the era and all the media and a million ways to hype something. If we get him I hope he does great , but I just don't see anything super human.

Funny enough, I was thinking along similar lines- I could easily see why he was considered the top prospect but why a once in a generational player? So I did some research and talked to a few ex-players and they explained to me some of things are a bit suddle:

1) Intelligence: This is the big one, apparently the kid calls his own plays in a pro style offense which is mind blowing. Furthermore they're one of the more balanced and very effective offenses in the Pac 12 so there's the arguement your getting an OC along with the QB. Could you imagine a rookie QB calling his own plays? Not out of the question and, could he be worse than McCoy?

In addition is decision making is unreal, not just identifying defenses but situations as well

2) Accuracy and Vision: His arm strength is good but not Cutler or Stafford, although he has plenty of arm to make NFL throws. The key is his accuracy, he understands passing windows and puts passes right on the money. This is accentuated by his vision, he uses his eyes like an NFL vet- looking off DBs and moving the secondary with a suddle shift of the head. Today's NFL is all about passing accuracy so it's easy to see why football people are salivating.

3) Athletic ability: The underrated one, the thiught from a far is he's a brainy pocket passer but he's actually very athletic. He may be faster than Tebow in straight-line speed (not lateral quickness though) and has even ran through defenders on occassion. Furthermore, he understands scrambling an how to move to buy time to pass, use his OL to move around and when to actually take off. In fact, one of my concerns is how mch will he take off in the NFL - too much, not enough or just right?

4) Intangibiles: The same stuff you hear about Tebow. Great character, work ethic, etc.

Overall, to my eye he looks like just another top prospect but when you look below the surface and listennto experts- it's the little things that make him that much better than Bradford, Ryan, etc.

Sell the farm for Luck, John!

So think about this, lets say Indy gets the pick and they're willing to sell for 3 #1s, #2s and #3s. Seems like too much right? Put it this way, would you trade 3 Von Millers, 3 Rahim Moores and 3 Nate Irvings for the centerpiece of your franchise for the next 15 years? I'm thinking I would. It would massive importance on the mid-round picks but to get a QB like that would increase the stock of the franchise to the point where free agents would be more ooen to coming here and there's always the possiblity they move some pieces like Clady, Doom and Champ to restock the picks.

Now I'm not sure the Broncos could offer their next 10 drafts and it would guarantee Indy moves the pick and if Miami gets it, negotiations probably start with taking over their team payroll for life, every pick your franchise ever gets and a guarantee you throw every game against them... But it's a call you have to make and be ready to deal anything and everything to get done, IMO.

Kaylore
11-03-2011, 06:37 AM
Stupid arguments by <s>Gator fan</s> MacGruder

"Andrew Luck hasn't won anything."
"Elway played when there was less parity"
"Cam Newton was the weak link of his team."
"The organization is why Tebow sucks at football."
"I'll stop 'being a Bronco fan' coincidentally when Tebow is traded/cut"
"You're projecting"

MacGruder was never a Bronco fan.
He joined when it appears Tebow was going to start.
Tebow is the only player he argues about and the only one he knows anything about at all.
He never waxes nostalgic about old players, wins or Broncos history (he doesn't know any).
He never attacks our biggest rivals or does anything to show any kind of enmity towards them.
He's incredibly defensive of the SEC.
He's already preemptively preparing to "stop supporting the team" in anticipation of Tebow's seemingly inevitable demise.

I think deep down MacGruder is angry because he knows a lot of Tebow's troubles just don't translate. I recall his comment "the NFL is dumb" or some such comment, where he accused the NFL of not being cool enough to adapt to Tim Tebow.

MacGruder: Go away. You were never a Bronco fan to begin with. We don't want you.

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 06:42 AM
So think about this, lets say Indy gets the pick and they're willing to sell for 3 #1s, #2s and #3s. Seems like too much right? Put it this way, would you trade 3 Von Millers, 3 Rahim Moores and 3 Nate Irvings for the centerpiece of your franchise for the next 15 years? I'm thinking I would. It would massive importance on the mid-round picks but to get a QB like that would increase the stock of the franchise to the point where free agents would be more ooen to coming here and there's always the possiblity they move some pieces like Clady, Doom and Champ to restock the picks.

Three from each round?

That's radical surrender. That's nothing like the Mike Lynn Cowboys benefactor or Mike Ditka "screw the draft, let's go get a beer" sacrifices ... that's unprecedented. I'd say no just on shock value.

Best chance is Rams land at #1. Two first-rounders and Ryan Clady, that's about what I'd do ... I think Clady and the fact we're AFC would set us apart from the other suitors.

bowtown
11-03-2011, 06:43 AM
Trading Clady would be a mistake IMO. What happened to the whole Rosario/Royal/Hochstein for Luck scenario?

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 06:50 AM
Trading Clady would be a mistake IMO. What happened to the whole Rosario/Royal/Hochstein for Luck scenario?

I've thrown the Clady thing out a couple times, no doubt it would be gut-wrenching, but follow my reasoning: EVERYBODY will be throwing picks and more picks at the Rams, what we would need is a offer they can't refuse angle. Picks are fine, but a proven All-Pro LT in his prime - to protect their showpiece, a talented but brittle quarterback - that might just seal it.


But your Rosario/Royal/Hochstein scenario is more interesting, do go on ....

v2micca
11-03-2011, 06:56 AM
Broncos have been trading proven effective players for picks for the last few years. I'm not sure how trading proven star players for picks is going to be that much more successful.

jhns
11-03-2011, 06:57 AM
I've thrown the Clady thing out a couple times, no doubt it would be gut-wrenching, but follow my reasoning: EVERYBODY will be throwing picks and more picks at the Rams, what we would need is a offer they can't refuse angle. Picks are fine, but a proven All-Pro LT in his prime - to protect their showpiece, a talented but brittle quarterback - that might just seal it.


But your Rosario/Royal/Hochstein scenario is more interesting, do go on ....

Then who is going to protect Luck? The line is already kind of bad. It would be complete garbage if we lost Clady or Kuper.

vonqkilla
11-03-2011, 06:58 AM
It will be picks, not players

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 07:07 AM
I shall vanquish thee with furious vengeance!

Rohirrim
11-03-2011, 07:14 AM
Maybe he's scouting DeCastro? ;D

bendog
11-03-2011, 07:47 AM
I'd love it to happen, but I don't see how. I wish he'd go to Little Rock to lobby this kid to come out.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/11/02/sports/s134743D47.DTL

Dedhed
11-03-2011, 07:49 AM
Wouldn't he be barred from college practices due to tampering concers??

I was thinking that there must be rules about NFL personnel visiting colleges. No?

bendog
11-03-2011, 07:52 AM
Oh god it's true! Elway just cost us two first round pick's because of a RULEs infraction. I weep.

HILife
11-03-2011, 07:52 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Smoke_screen.jpg

eddie mac
11-03-2011, 07:55 AM
I think Luck's response was a little more like.

"If you can reincarnate Zimmermann, Jones, Schlereth, Nalen, Sharpe, Rod, Eddie Mac, Griffith and TD I might hold out until you call, cos that's the only way I'm winning a Superbowl in Denver, a bit like yourself John"

SonOfLe-loLang
11-03-2011, 08:17 AM
He wouldn't have been able to escape the pocket in the SEC or the NFL.

USC is even a shell of what they were and their D stunk before.

Stanford has probably benefited greatly form USCs problems which is also why Luck's accomplishments should be even more suspect.

So...in the SEC they always keep their quarterbacks in the pocket? No one ever runs? I know youre just saying this to be an ahole, i dunno why im playing along

DarkHorse
11-03-2011, 08:21 AM
You're projecting.

I don't agree with his post but.....


isn't the entire NFL world + fans everywhere 'projecting' that Luck will be some great savior NFL QB for whatever team drafts him?

Isn't everyone 'projecting' that he'll go #1 overall? I personally believe he will but until that happens, everyone is projecting.

montrose
11-03-2011, 08:24 AM
One note to consider for those making the case to improve the rest of the team- which is very valid, they suck royally- the comments Lions players made after the game could potentially grow and unless Denver has a credible QB its going to be very hard to convince players to come play there and possibly even more difficult to retain the players they want to keep. Hell, they already had to move a Pro Bowl WR and that was before Tebow even played. Now could a Matt Flynn, Brian Hoyer or Josh Johnson stabilize that reputation? Prehaps. Barkley or Jones seem to be highly thought of, but I wouldn't say anymore so than other recent 1st rounders were coming out. Luck on the other hand has people thinking instant impact player, not just Sam Bradford- he plays well for a rookie- but possible good, maybe even great play from the position right off at bat. Not only could that mask other weaknesses but help the Broncos in retaining players and recruiting new ones. Look at New Orleans before Brees got there, it didnt take long to build up the rest of the roster once the QB was in place.

Again, its pretty unrealistic to dream Luck, IMO. But we cant discount the value a prospect like at would mean to the franchise. Furthermore we cant be foolish enough as fans to believe EFX can draft some DTs, OL, etc. To build up the rest of the team and go with Tebow next year unless he shows MASSIVE improvement down the stretch. No free agent will touch this place and it wouldn't suprise me if several players asked to be dealt too.

Now lets hope something magic happens and Tebow fixes everything this week!

Requiem
11-03-2011, 08:27 AM
Montrose,

You know as well as I do that the Denver Broncos are getting a quarterback for the 2012 season.

The question is -- WHO?

BVP!

Chris
11-03-2011, 08:27 AM
how many mother ****ing times is the word "projecting" going to be used in one internet forum board. JMFC. ProjectingNextDeflecting...

sounds like a drinking game...

carry on...

It's not used that much if you really count. You're projecting on this one.

El Guapo
11-03-2011, 08:33 AM
I don't agree with his post but.....


isn't the entire NFL world + fans everywhere 'projecting' that Luck will be some great savior NFL QB for whatever team drafts him?

Isn't everyone 'projecting' that he'll go #1 overall? I personally believe he will but until that happens, everyone is projecting.

Were still waiting for Ryan Leaf to do the same.

Mountain Bronco
11-03-2011, 09:00 AM
It is very likely that Standford plays for a title this year. If OK state loses to OK and standford wins out they Standford likely plays the LSU/Bama winner.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-03-2011, 09:06 AM
It will be picks, not players

It'll involve players. If Indy is trading the pick it means they want to make another run while Peyton is still playing, that means not just picks.

BigPlayShay
11-03-2011, 09:09 AM
It'll involve players. If Indy is trading the pick it means they want to make another run while Peyton is still playing, that means not just picks.

Yup. Larry Coyer, if he isn't fired is the DC. DJ and Champ involved in a potential trade would make some sense.

Willynowei
11-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Honestly? I don't even think Luck is that good, he'd be a hell of a lot better than what denver has on the field now, but I'm definitely not sold on this guy, I don't care what Mel Kiper says or all the college fans who have their judgment clouded by someone's accomplishments in the lower league with lower competition and a game played at an entirely different speed.

I look at the guy's tools and two things. 1 - he doesn't rip it on a line, okay his arm strengths fine, but he's no Farve,he's definitely not going to rip it like the young arms in the NFL today like rogers or cutler, not even close; thats okay in a vacuum but let me get to point number 2.

2.) His release- A.) is inconsistent, its not always the same release every time, its ****ing brilliant on the run, but not so good inside of the pocket, he cocks it and it winds up, not Tebow level, but ugh, kind of tebow like.

Now what happens when you combine an inability to laser a ball with the slower release? - You get a QB that can't take advantage of open windows.

I'm not saying his arm is Pennington's or his release is Leftwhich's but they don't impress me to the point of saying OMG automatic success at QB!

If he's smart and hardworking he can do well and improve on these points, same **** can be said about almost every quarterback picked in the first round every year.

Go watch a highlight tape of Andrew Luck, and try to be as unbiased as possible, and then switch to the college highlight tape of Aaron Rodgers, Ben Rothlesberger, Jay Cutler, or Philip Rivers. All of them had far better tangibles, just look at their releases, their bodies, their feet, the zip on the ball.

now if he's any of those QB's he'll be worth a first round pick, but all this hype? Freakin overrated prospect is what he is.

Thats my 2 cents.

And people talking about trading the teams better players for him; I'm glad ur not the teams GM, although these days I'm not sure who wouldn't be more competent than the idiots running this team.

Willynowei
11-03-2011, 09:22 AM
I've thrown the Clady thing out a couple times, no doubt it would be gut-wrenching, but follow my reasoning: EVERYBODY will be throwing picks and more picks at the Rams, what we would need is a offer they can't refuse angle. Picks are fine, but a proven All-Pro LT in his prime - to protect their showpiece, a talented but brittle quarterback - that might just seal it.


But your Rosario/Royal/Hochstein scenario is more interesting, do go on ....

I wouldn't give up Clady for Luck AND a pick, much less package him for luck.

BroncoBuff
11-03-2011, 09:26 AM
It'll involve players. If Indy is trading the pick it means they want to make another run while Peyton is still playing, that means not just picks.

Easy to give picks, easy compared to giving up players we love like Von Miller or Ryan Clady. I stand by (kind of stand by) my Clady thoughts. He is worth more than any 1st round pick, especially to the Rams.

If we want to sell out for Luck (which I don't by the way), Clady might make the difference. Although I just realized the Dolphins have a similar sweetener available to offer.

Ram simply must protect Bradford, it's gotta be job one right now.

Inkana7
11-03-2011, 09:42 AM
Tebow has far more awards than that.. and he got them in the SEC.. people say they don't mean anything in the NFL.. why is that different with Luck? simply because he has more experience in a pro style offense? Lots of guys do.. so what sets him apart from them? Matt leinart did all that as well.. AND won championships.. he stunk..

Greg McElroy defeated Tebow in the SEC Championship and then won a National Title.

We should go get him!

McDman
11-03-2011, 09:52 AM
I think Luck's response was a little more like.

"If you can reincarnate Zimmermann, Jones, Schlereth, Nalen, Sharpe, Rod, Eddie Mac, Griffith and TD I might hold out until you call, cos that's the only way I'm winning a Superbowl in Denver, a bit like yourself John"

Holly eff, they're all dead?!?!?!?!

bowtown
11-03-2011, 09:52 AM
Holly eff, they're all dead?!?!?!?!

97 Superbowl Curse

ChrisToker
11-03-2011, 10:00 AM
Tebow has far more awards than that.. and he got them in the SEC.. people say they don't mean anything in the NFL.. why is that different with Luck? simply because he has more experience in a pro style offense? Lots of guys do.. so what sets him apart from them? Matt leinart did all that as well.. AND won championships.. he stunk..

Dude. This is getting old. Tebow was a stud....in COLLEGE. Yes Luck has never taken a snap in NFL. The difference between the two is night and day. Tebow could be OK in this league if a team ran a gimmick offence and had a owner that didn't mind a bad win loss ratio. Luck can make all the throws and speedy reads on the field.

I say we keep Tebow starter for rest of season no matter how ugly it gets. That way even the die-hard supporters will remove his cock from their mouths. Best case he can compete w/ Larsen for FB next year an every one win.

peacepipe
11-03-2011, 10:04 AM
Were still waiting for Ryan Leaf to do the same.

ryan leaf never had the same hype

Pony Boy
11-03-2011, 10:07 AM
Wake up folks....... Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady couldn't win with the Bronco's right now, they would get killed in action.......

peacepipe
11-03-2011, 10:09 AM
Dude. This is getting old. Tebow was a stud....in COLLEGE. Yes Luck has never taken a snap in NFL. The difference between the two is night and day. Tebow could be OK in this league if a team ran a gimmick offence and had a owner that didn't mind a bad win loss ratio. Luck can make all the throws and speedy reads on the field.

I say we keep Tebow starter for rest of season no matter how ugly it gets. That way even the die-hard supporters will remove his cock from their mouths. Best case he can compete w/ Larsen for FB next year an every one win.I can't believe we let McGoober hijack this thread.
Elway scouting Andrew Luck probably means 1 thing,he's debating wether it's worth trading up for him. I'm pretty sure he's thinking the samething the rest of us are thinking: Miami or indy will get the #1 pick & wether Luck is worth selling the farm for.

bendog
11-03-2011, 10:11 AM
It'll involve players. If Indy is trading the pick it means they want to make another run while Peyton is still playing, that means not just picks.

Well then we're screwed because I don't see many of these stiffs leading the charge. Von Miller, Clady and ****e

broncosteven
11-03-2011, 10:20 AM
...
Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

Hooray!

Best thing I have read here since mCd got canned!

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 10:21 AM
Wake up folks....... Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady couldn't win with the Bronco's right now, they would get killed in action.......

I agree, however you would have a huge starting point to build around.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-03-2011, 10:29 AM
Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-now-radio/WellBye.jpg

bendog
11-03-2011, 10:30 AM
Is there anything I can do to hasten your departure?

Broncos4tw
11-03-2011, 10:32 AM
I still don't see how we'll have a chance. We'd have to decimate our draft to get the guy, and there is a great chance the team getting him will never trade him.

Hulamau
11-03-2011, 10:43 AM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.


Hallelujah!!! That is the single biggest incentive Ive yet seen for joining the Suck for Luck bandwagon .. sign me up!!!

CEH
11-03-2011, 10:43 AM
Glad the fan(s) believe in Tebow. Every former Bronco like Shannon, Eddie Mac, Alfred, Stink, any on the radio in Denver have seen enough to move on.

Shannon: Does you girlfriend need to burn down your house before you know it won't work out.

I will give Tebow all year . Not sure Fox will

bendog
11-03-2011, 10:45 AM
I hope Mia's coach gets eaten by Shamu.

broncocalijohn
11-03-2011, 10:49 AM
Glad the fan(s) believe in Tebow. Every former Bronco like Shannon, Eddie Mac, Alfred, Stink, any on the radio in Denver have seen enough to move on.

Shannon: Does you girlfriend need to burn down your house before you know it won't work out.I will give Tebow all year . Not sure Fox will

Was the Shannon question to us in Tebow land or directed at Brandon Marshall or Andre Rison? http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103321,00.html

Love the MacGruder post of him hopefully leaving (Cutlerfan style). Sometimes you guy quoting him is ok. That is one of them!

Play2win
11-03-2011, 10:51 AM
Trading Clady would be a mistake IMO. What happened to the whole Rosario/Royal/Hochstein for Luck scenario?

Yeah good "luck" with that...

Play2win
11-03-2011, 11:04 AM
Holly eff, they're all dead?!?!?!?!

Har, har!! Hilarious!

broncocalijohn
11-03-2011, 11:07 AM
Broncos have been trading proven effective players for picks for the last few years. I'm not sure how trading proven star players for picks is going to be that much more successful.

Because McDaniels wont be the one picking the players.

Play2win
11-03-2011, 11:10 AM
Because McDaniels wont be the one picking the players.

Yeah, all in all, McD gave up a ****load for Tebow. ROI of all that is just sad.

HILife
11-03-2011, 11:16 AM
Why won't he suck? What has he ever done.. he can't even win in college.. how is he going to win in the NFL?



Actually.. the way the Broncos are being run I would say they are pushing me away from being a fan. If they are in a position to need a new QB like Luck then I highly doubt I will still be a fan of the Broncos.

I was at this game and you are an idiot.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vq3Ol2jtGnk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
11-03-2011, 11:27 AM
I was at this game and you are an idiot.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vq3Ol2jtGnk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He already looks better than half of the QBs in the NFL.

vonqkilla
11-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Greg McElroy defeated Tebow in the SEC Championship and then won a National Title.

We should go get him!

Blasphemy, anyone that defeated Tebow did so by his will. Tebow wanted to share the glory and spread happiness to all.

BroncoBen
11-03-2011, 11:58 AM
Do you watch his game? Luke has the talent factor of Elway and Football Knowledge of Marino/Manning. Hype would not be a good word to use on Luck. He is what he is, and thats why he will be #1 overall in draft

You got that right.. I been watching this kid for the last 2 years and he is pretty amazing. The other QB that is starting to impress me is Matt Barkley, I thought Landry Jones was pretty good.. but Barkley has that 'extra' something to keep fighting to stay in the game. Jones looks like he needs players around him, he's starting to look like Orton.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-03-2011, 12:34 PM
I agree, however you would have a huge starting point to build around.

I bet they would win

DrFate
11-03-2011, 12:44 PM
Holly eff, they're all dead?!?!?!?!

zombies

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-03-2011, 12:51 PM
zombies

THAT'S why they called him "Stink."

razorwire77
11-03-2011, 02:05 PM
I can't believe we let McGoober hijack this thread.
Elway scouting Andrew Luck probably means 1 thing,he's debating wether it's worth trading up for him. I'm pretty sure he's thinking the samething the rest of us are thinking: Miami or indy will get the #1 pick & wether Luck is worth selling the farm for.

Yeah, his ability to take a topic of significance regarding Bronco football and turn it into a 14 page sh*t-fest in incredible. Elway scouting Luck in the middle of the season is a huge deal. Folks, he's going to make a move for this kid, what it comes down to is what team gets no. 1 overall, and where we draft in comparison.

If Miami gets the pick, they are going to tell Elway to **** off and draft Luck, but if it's Minnesota, St. Louis, or Indy it gets a lot more interesting.

If Indy thinks that Manning is capable of recovering and playing a couple of years at a high level they might be willing to do a pick swap in exchange for a boatload of draft picks and veteran players like Champ, D.J. etc., in an attempt to gear up for another run.

Rohirrim
11-03-2011, 02:16 PM
I don't know how excited everybody should get about this. Stanford is Elway's alma mater. He's there all the time. I think he's very involved in all sorts of alumni stuff. He might be there for something else and just went to watch practice.

bowtown
11-03-2011, 02:25 PM
I don't know how excited everybody should get about this. Stanford is Elway's alma mater. He's there all the time. I think he's very involved in all sorts of alumni stuff. He might be there for something else and just went to watch practice.

Hopefully he just dropped by to give Luck a new BMW.

Punisher
11-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Luck will suck.

It will be absolutely hilarious when the Broncos get Luck and he ends up being a glorified Kyle Orton... then Tebow ends up somewhere else and wins championships.

If that happens i'll eat your ass after you take a **** there's no way luck will suck in the NFL. The kid is more than golden hes platinum and by the way Tebow sucks so much dick it's not even funny

Drunk Monkey
11-03-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't know how excited everybody should get about this. Stanford is Elway's alma mater. He's there all the time. I think he's very involved in all sorts of alumni stuff. He might be there for something else and just went to watch practice.

Plus we are playing up there this weekend.

Inkana7
11-03-2011, 02:39 PM
I don't know how excited everybody should get about this. Stanford is Elway's alma mater. He's there all the time. I think he's very involved in all sorts of alumni stuff. He might be there for something else and just went to watch practice.

The DP article on this said that the Broncos Press corps said Elway was out "scouting" this week, and then he's found at Stanford's practice.

bowtown
11-03-2011, 02:40 PM
The DP article on this said that the Broncos Press corps said Elway was out "scouting" this week, and then he's found at Stanford's practice.

He wanted to get a look at that Anders Lock everyone keeps talking about.

24champ
11-03-2011, 02:41 PM
I don't know how excited everybody should get about this. Stanford is Elway's alma mater. He's there all the time. I think he's very involved in all sorts of alumni stuff. He might be there for something else and just went to watch practice.

Also, we're playing @ Oakland on Sunday. Not very far from Stanford. I am sure Elway is using the opportunity to scout Luck and other players, like some of their offensive Lineman.

Smilin Assassin
11-03-2011, 03:13 PM
The DP article on this said that the Broncos Press corps said Elway was out "scouting" this week, and then he's found at Stanford's practice.


They edited the earlier article.

It had mentioned Elway was also there to address the team on their undefeated season, as well.

(I don't think that violates the "scouts can't talk to players" rule)

Rohirrim
11-03-2011, 03:36 PM
Plus we are playing up there this weekend.

Maybe he's spying on Oakland's practices? ;D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Sellers_pinkpanther7.jpg

extralife
11-03-2011, 04:03 PM
I would not be very surprised if the NFL gave Elway a call to "clear some things up" regarding what he is and is not allowed to do. I'm with Rohirrim, though. I doubt there's much to this.

But: how hilarious would it be if the Colts traded a once-in-a-generation QB from Stanford taken number one overall to the Broncos again? And if the guy that got it done was the guy that necessitated that "again" in the first place? This has to happen, right?

(it's not going to happen)

yerner
11-03-2011, 04:08 PM
He wanted to get a look at that Anders Lock everyone keeps talking about.

You don't want to see the 'Ders.

oubronco
11-03-2011, 04:16 PM
Elway and Xanders were at Cals practice today.......... OH NO!!!!!!!!

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/11/03/elway-xanders-watch-cal-practice-today/10551/

TheReverend
11-03-2011, 04:23 PM
He wanted to get a look at that Anders Lock everyone keeps talking about.

...What?

Dude, I think you got the name wrong.

He was looking for Andre ****.

TheReverend
11-03-2011, 04:23 PM
You don't want to see the 'Ders.

You gotta! You gotta!

Gotta stay fresh

elsid13
11-03-2011, 04:36 PM
While I think 'Ders **** is the best human cyborg ever, here a nice article on the Luck

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2011/11/03/the-tape-never-lies-a-closer-look-at-andrew-luck/

McDman
11-03-2011, 04:42 PM
You gotta! You gotta!

Gotta stay fresh

Yeah, Ok. Blonders!

gunns
11-03-2011, 04:48 PM
You will realize the error of your ways when you see how good Tebow is in an organization that knows how to use him...

Can't wait.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 05:13 PM
You gotta! You gotta!

Gotta stay fresh

I AM SICK OF TIRED!